July 7, 2025 • 55 mins
Hey there, nerds! In this episode of Scene N Nerd, Sarah and Will dive into some juicy entertainment gossip, starting with Neil Druckmann saying sayonara to "The Last of Us" TV series. Yep, he’s heading back to Naughty Dog, and our hosts are here to ponder what that means for the show. Was this a strategic retreat from fan backlash, or is he just craving some creative freedom? Let’s spill the tea!
Then, they jump into the action-packed finale of "Ironheart," breaking down the last three episodes like pros. From Riri’s epic showdown with Parker to the jaw-dropping reveal of Mephisto, they’ll cover all the character drama, pacing hiccups, and those pesky unresolved plot threads that left them both cheering and scratching their heads. What’s up with Parker’s motivations? And what’s the deal with Riri’s devilish bargain? They’ve got thoughts, and they’re not holding back!
With plenty of laughs and some seriously insightful commentary, this episode is a must-listen for fans of "Ironheart," "The Last of Us," and anyone who loves the wild ride of superhero storytelling!
0:00 Welcome
0:35 Neil Druckmann's exit from "The Last of Us"
6:10 "Ironheart" Episodes 4-6 discussion
53:50 Closing thoughts
Wanna keep the conversation going? Connect with us on X (formerly Twitter) @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Don’t forget to check out our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you loved the episode, give us a rating and a shout-out on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast fix!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Will (00:00):
Music
>> Sarah (00:13):
Greetings, Nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk. How are you doing tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:19):
Doing very well, Sarah. Happy July 1st.
>> Sarah (00:22):
Oh, my God. Thank God June's over.
Yeah, just felt long.
Like, usually July feels long to me, which I
am fully prepared for it to be the never
ending month. But June this
year felt like somehow there was
an extra week.
(00:43):
It was like. It's like, all right, all right,
let's. Let's. Let's get going.
>> Will (00:48):
Yeah, but, but, yeah,
yeah, but, yeah, but July, it's like, oh, you know, I
was posted, on our blog as far as, like, all the content. It's
like, I know earlier this year when we had, like, the
overlap of, like, the Last of Us and then
Andor and Daredevil. Now this month, we have,
like, all. Now we've got, like, another big month
(01:09):
of just, like, stuff. And then we're talking
Iron Heart tonight. And then, and then, of course, we
got, you know, a couple little small films coming out this
month. and then.
>> Sarah (01:19):
And also, yeah, there's
stuff this month, but I was thinking about it
before we got on. We.
There isn't a lot of overlap.
>> Will (01:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:31):
So. So it's, It's. It's an interesting
comparison to what happened in the,
I don't know, like, Collision Course that
was March through April through me.
Like, okay, calm down, people.
But, but, Because they decided
to change the release order of Iron
(01:52):
Heart, we're gonna get that out of way and then head to the
movies and then get back for the Bear, which
got, renewed for a fifth season. I'm not, I'm
not. Like, this is news to Will
for me. I was like, it's already gonna get.
>> Will (02:09):
You know, I, you know, I. Given the
lack of fanfare that
this fourth season has gotten, I mean, you know, I
honestly, you know, it was one of those things. Speaking of
June, it was like it was coming, and I knew it was, like,
going to come at the end of the month. And maybe to your point about, you know, June
being a long month, it just kind of snuck up on me.
(02:29):
But when it was released, I was like, oh, yeah, the pair
came out. Or maybe it's because we're going to wait
to cover it, you know, this month. Maybe that's why
I was just sort of like, well, I know I'm gonna watch it in. In a few
weeks. I'm not going to watch it when it drops in the. You know.
>> Sarah (02:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Think it's
more about that and also trying to stay
away from anything, for
spoilers or for even just like.
No, I want to go into this form my own
opinions. I don't want to have anyone,
like, an idea of what I should expect.
(03:04):
Like, I don't want my expectations
hampered. I mean, I watched.
Okay, I know what to expect.
>> Will (03:13):
Yeah, but. Yeah, but it was. Yeah,
but, you know, but usually. But the thing is, especially with streaming
shows these days, usually when it's a
sure bet for renewal, I mean, you know,
it's not uncommon for things to get renewed, even, you know, either
day of premiere or a few days before the
premiere. And I guess that's where it was. And also, just.
(03:34):
Honestly, just the cast, everyone is
really just going to be so busy with upcoming projects. I mean, you got
Jeremy Allen White. I know he's doing the Springsteen. I think
he's, Is it also going to be in, the, upcoming
Star wars film? that. With Ryan Gosling, you know,
IO she's got stuff going, you know, I mean,
everybody's just super busy. So it was just like,
(03:54):
will they have time to film it? But season five
was officially.
>> Sarah (03:59):
will they have time to film the fifth season?
>> Will (04:02):
Yeah, they're gonna film it.
>> Sarah (04:03):
They give a release date
2026. So next year. Okay, next year.
>> Will (04:10):
Yep.
>> Sarah (04:10):
Yeah. The only reason why they had time to do a lot
of the projects that are getting released for these actors is
because they filmed season, three and season four back
to back.
>> Will (04:20):
Sure. True.
>> Sarah (04:21):
Yeah. So. So they had already figured that
out. And so, yes, they have projects, but
for most part they're in other than that, Star Wars
1, they're probably in the
promotional area which allows them
to, to, be open for filming
of that show. And they're probably all contracted for at least
five to six seasons, so.
>> Will (04:42):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (04:43):
Yeah.
>> Will (04:43):
And a good thing about it too is like, I mean, post production on the show,
it's not like one of the sci fi shows where you have like a bunch
of special effects and stuff either. So they can really turn it around.
>> Sarah (04:53):
Yes.
what else? Ah, Dene Ville New is set
to direct the next James Bond movie.
>> Will (05:04):
Yeah. So this was
a big Bond person, but I. But I am. And when
I. When I saw this, When I saw this news, I, was
pretty excited, actually. I know this is the first
project that since the acquisition
of the Bond franchise by Amazon,
from. From the MGN and the Broccoli family.
(05:26):
So, so I know there was a lot of discussion about Whether or
not Christopher Nolan was going to do it or, or
someone else. But, Yeah, but then he was,
signed to do it and now we'll just sort of see who's going to be
the next Bond.
>> Sarah (05:41):
Yeah, that, that's, that's the question that I really
want answered, especially with Dene on
board to direct. so
that, That'll be interesting. What direction they go with
that. Christopher, Nolan's the
Odyssey trailer has leaked online.
>> Will (05:59):
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Nolan
really, really likes to have his
trailers released, you know,
cinematically. But. But
apparently the, the trailer dropped.
Was leaked today. this is a screen grab from it and
I did not pull it because I didn't want to get a copyright strike
on our, on our show, because
(06:21):
Universal's pretty, pretty aggressively going after
it. But it, was, I think about a 70s, about a
minute and a half long teaser trailer. yeah,
it had, you know, clearly Matt Damon is playing
dcs. John, Barenthal was also in this
trailer with a mystery character. Tom Holland, of course, is in it
as well. And, I think, several. Many other other
(06:42):
folks. But, yeah, it did drop
and if you, if you're lucky enough to. If you want to see it,
it is out there on, On Twitter and, tick
tock. And. But, but I know Universal is
very aggressively struck, striking those,
sites down who are, putting
copyright strikes on them. So, you know, if you see it,
(07:02):
great. If not, you know, just be like the rest of us and
wait for it when it comes out. But this film is actually,
slated to come out in 2026 as well.
>> Sarah (07:11):
Yeah, in July.
>> Will (07:12):
In July. Yep.
>> Sarah (07:13):
Yep. Nolan loves
his July release date.
>> Will (07:18):
He does.
>> Sarah (07:19):
So, and then Matt Reeves and co
writer Matson Tomlin have finished the
Batman 2 SC script. And all I
have to say about that is, who cares?
Like, like, honestly, I'm not a big fan of
the first movie that came out, even though I love
the casting that occurred. But,
(07:41):
I mean, the Penguin,
like, I even forgot about that. But,
but I, I love the Penguin is my favorite,
show I watched last year.
But that doesn't necessarily mean, like,
oh, yay, the Batman too. Because
all I can really think about this is
(08:01):
it just makes me question things
because you're telling me
way back, like 5,000
years ago, because it feels like
it's been so long since the Batman
first came out. Like,
they didn't, they didn't think that it was gonna
do good enough to already have an idea for the
(08:23):
sequel. Like they didn't
like. I, I just, I just wonder.
So. So you wrote one movie
and, and from what I vaguely recall
of the ending, you didn't already have an
idea of where the character was gonna go for
sequels? Because it's Batman. Like
(08:45):
it's going to do well. It's
just, Sorry, I just For me, I
just question why so long? Why did
it take forever to get made? And especially
with all of the talk about spin offs
and all of this other stuff. And the only thing that really
came of anything regarding all of
(09:06):
that talk was the Penguin, which
also took a while to
get developed and in production and finally shot
and then aired last year. So.
Yeah, it's just weird to me.
>> Will (09:20):
Yeah, well, from what I understand, it was a
part of. It was. I think Matt had some things happen in his personal
life that interrupted him
drafting the, the, the
sequel. Plus, plus there was also
the writer strike. I mean that also added
time, where they could. Where pins were down. So,
(09:40):
so I think there were some extenuating circumstances
that delayed
getting the, the final script
ready. But he finally did finish it and
it'll be hopefully, I guess they'll be
really moving towards production and I think currently the, the film
is slated to come out in I think October of
2027.
>> Sarah (10:00):
So I'll believe it when I see.
>> Will (10:03):
It.
>> Sarah (10:07):
When I see it. because, because the
original was slated for an October date and it got
pushed back to a March. But.
>> Will (10:15):
Yes, yeah, yeah, but Warner, Warner does
that though, see, with a lot of their films.
>> Sarah (10:20):
Yes, they do. Yes, they do.
another trailer I did not see was Eyes on
Wakanda which, dropped and It's a
new four episode animated series in
that is coming to Disney plus on August
27th.
>> Will (10:36):
Yep, yep. So yeah, that's the
animated. That's the other Ryan Coogler.
and I've also developed this
and it looks like, I think it's a prequel, if I recall, for, for some of
the backstory for, for
Wakanda. And Yeah, I think all four episodes
are dropping at once. So I did see, I did see the little teaser that
they dropped today. It looks really good. Looks really good.
>> Sarah (10:58):
That's good. Yeah, that's good. And it makes sense that
you drop that,
while people are watching Iron Heart.
I know the, the
second half of the season dropped
today. tonight we're just talking about the first three
episodes and next week we'll wrap up with the final three
episodes and all that. I'm M
(11:21):
thinking about is the fact that we didn't talk about how we're going to do
this during the pre show.
So, I'm just gonna go through
each episode's IMDb
summary. Okay. And then I'll
circle back and just say an
overall thought that, that can
(11:44):
get us started. Okay. I don't think we need to
break down necessarily episode by episode, but
that's just me. so, so
episode one is called Take Me Home. MIT
student riri Williams builds an advanced armor
suit inspired by Tony Stark. While dealing with
challenges as a young black woman in tech, she
(12:04):
confronts a tech based threat and must decide
if she's ready to become iron heart. The
second episode, will the real Natalie please
stand up? RiRi's new AI dredges
up, painful men at Murray's ahead of her first
heist with Parker and his crew in
episode three, We Endanger Girl. RiRi
is uncomfortable being part of Parker's crew.
(12:27):
Two more heists, Max, and she's out,
she promises. So,
Will, what is like
an overall or an opening
thought that you have about
RiRi and these, these three
episodes?
>> Will (12:45):
Yeah. Yeah. So my overall first thought
is, you know, Disney really like
screwed the pooch with the lack
of publicity for this show because
I, I actually really did enjoy the, these
three episodes overall. Did they blow me away?
you know, no, but, but,
(13:06):
you know, but it also, but they were very solid.
I also think that just, I'll just go ahead and just put
it out there as far as some of the, the review
bombing that was happening by, a lot of neck
beards and people, you know, in bad faith. What, you know,
review bombing the show before it even aired. I mean, we
just call it for what it is. It's a bunch, you know, it was just a bunch of
(13:27):
misogynist, racist. And so,
and you know, I think it's. And so when I did
see the 86 rotten
tomato score, I mean, for, you know, for folks who do put
stock in those things, I was just like, you know, some, you know, and I do
use it as a barometer. you know, certified fresh. I was
like, you know, that was a nice fu to all those review bombers,
(13:48):
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, but I do
have it too. What, As I said earlier, I, I, I'm glad. You
know, I know, it was a lot of grassroots,
organic, you know, publicity that
people did for this show. I do. But I also
do think that it was very wise of them to,
to do this, this, this Release structure.
(14:09):
How. How they. How they rolled it out with the three
and three. Because obviously, like you said, we
haven't watched the. The final three episodes that
are airing tonight as we were. As we're recording this.
But I, I, they, you know, as a
miniseries, I think they. The three
stories do work very,
(14:30):
like a little mini movie, which, you know, is. I think it's
more common these days. Whenever series do, you
know, get rolled out, they'll do it this way. And.
And I think that really did complement the. The show very
well to do it that way. because I will say,
you know, the sec. The. The first episode, you
know, I've watched, I watched. Watches the
(14:50):
episodes twice because I wanted to be really, just
to be fair, I try to always watch things twice if I can.
And you know,
the first episode. The first episode when
I first watched it, like I said, didn't blow me
away, but I was just like, this is entertaining.
but watching everything again, this show has
(15:11):
a lot in it and a lot. And I don't know, whenever we get in more
detail, breakdown on some of the. Some of the
aspects of it, you know, it
really is a very solid and very, very good show in my opinion. I
like. Honestly, I'll just put it out there. I like the better in Daredevil.
Born Again.
>> Sarah (15:28):
Wow.
>> Will (15:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (15:30):
Interesting. I like this
show. I'm not in love with this show. I. I
think it has a lot of flaws.
I, I have. I have issues with it.
and I, Yeah,
I. I think. I think Disney did a horrible
job at promotion, but also I
(15:53):
think based on the job that they did and what
they delivered, I feel like they just wanted to.
To hide it. They wanted to bury it almost.
>> Will (16:03):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (16:04):
because they didn't believe in it. and so.
But
overall it's. It's interesting
because since watching the three episodes,
I like, I was. I was pretty engaged
through most of it.
and. But I'm a bit biased. And
(16:24):
I'm biased and I say that because I'm
biased towards the actress who plays
Natalie
because that actress, whose name
is Lyric, she played a very
pivotal character on this Is Us. okay.
And I recently watched her
(16:45):
on the that Was Us podcast because she
comes on and I love her
relationship, like, both on and off screen with
Sterling K. Brown. So
I'm a bit biased to like that character,
and root for. And it's. It's weird
because when. When I talk about riri,
(17:09):
I liked her Riri more in Wakanda. Forever
than I do in this show. And.
But it's also
strange to say that because
I find her relationship with
Natalie Verse and
her relationship with Joe,
(17:29):
who. I mean, I know his real name,
Ezekiel, AKA Ezekiel
Stein, to be the best parts of the show.
Like the. The. Her. The actress who
plays Riri, her chemistry with both Lyric
and Alden. Alden Reich. Like,
(17:50):
those two dynamics
work so well.
>> Will (17:54):
Yep.
>> Sarah (17:55):
And then everything else is,
I would say,
boring to me.
Like I say in the sermons of like,
okay, now we're entering after school special
territory. But,
>> Will (18:13):
Yeah, see, see, here's the thing. This is why,
Why it's like. And maybe it's just, I don't
know, they're like where. I think this
show where people. Because I know, you know, obviously we'll
talk about the AI Piece and that was one of the things you and I messaged about over the
weekend. But there was one element of the story
with. With. With,
the hood, with Parker and. And
(18:36):
his. And his m. And his, you know, taking on the
billionaires and stuff. And. And part of it is
something that, you know, I hadn't heard any people reactors,
at least the ones. Some of. Some of the big bigger ones talk
about. But the whole thing with the whole,
first mission with RIRI and the,
With the tunnel. And you know, they
(18:58):
talk about how, you know, the. The
tunnel. One of the, you know, underlying things that's going to
connect the city and all the. All these great things that the
tunnel is going to do. And then, you know, I can't help but think about like,
gentrification and also like. And seeing how
like, freeways that are like, cut, through,
like minority, black, you know,
(19:18):
communities and stuff.
>> Sarah (19:19):
Yeah.
>> Will (19:20):
And yeah, it's supposed to be all this great stuff and, and
all that. And, and. And so when
I see this thing about the tunnel, I think about an experience here, like in
the town that I live in where everybody talked about how great the
freeway is going to be cut through, you know, m. You know, going to be done. But of course
they like, cut it right through the middle of the black neighborhood.
And so, so for me, when I watch
(19:40):
it, and maybe, you know, maybe it is a cultural filter kind of thing that
maybe for. For. Maybe that's why it resonates with some
audiences more than others. You know, they're. They're
experiences that are built into the show
that I can. That I, That I identify
with because I'm like, oh, yeah, this reminds, you know, the. The
tunnel and, and and, and, and the crew
that, you know, whenever they were like talking about
(20:02):
some of the. The. The
why they were doing it, I was like, ah,
yeah, you know, I thought about the Durham Freeway here in town. Because
it's the kind of things that like that, you know, those are.
It may not be like. And, and, and it's. And
it's to be good writing because it's not like the over.
Oh, you know, it's not the big
(20:22):
exposition dump or beating you over the head with it.
But, you know, those are some of the things that you can like, bake into the
story that, you know, that, may, you know, that may
miss. That some viewers may miss.
>> Sarah (20:35):
Right, right.
>> Will (20:36):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:37):
So you're saying that not a lot of people are talking about
it.
>> Will (20:41):
I mean, not that. I mean, that's just. Well, I mean. Well, you know, a lot of
things I've seen this is like, you know, the whole criminal. Is
she a criminal? You know, the Robin Hood, the whole, you know, rich,
Robin are rich. And you know, you
know, of course there's like the. Scott, Scott, you know,
the rear. He's doing criminal acts. And then, you know, there's the.
Well, so, you know, Scott Lang was a felon, you know, as far as, you
(21:02):
know. You know, so there's been some of that discourse out there,
but, But I haven't seen
anything as far as some of the, you know, that
aspect of the tunnel. I mean, and maybe there is. I just, you know.
>> Sarah (21:13):
Right, right. No, I mean, you raised a
very valid point.
>> Will (21:18):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:19):
that. And obviously from where I
grew up, like, I don't have that same
experience at all. And that can be lost on me.
But at the same time, hearing
that and the few discussions I have
heard overheard about this show,
people have point out is like,
considering we're talking about the hood and his
(21:42):
vendettas, like this idea
that you have a.
Someone who. Whose power and ability
lies in tech versus someone
who's in the mystical realm, like,
magic versus technology. That's very interesting,
but for me as a viewer,
they ain't selling
(22:04):
doesn't. For some reason it does not. It
falls flat. And, And I
all. I mainly blame Antony
Ramos, but I also know he's just performing
what he. Like the script. But
I, I just. There's something about it. Like.
And I will be frankly honest, like,
I mean, yes, we already established I
(22:27):
don't have that experience with the tunnels to make that connection.
even though there is a line in the show which
did stand out to Me where they talk about like,
yeah, but nobody seems to care about the communities that these
tunnels are going to destroy.
>> Will (22:41):
That's it. That was.
>> Sarah (22:43):
Yeah, like, like that's a great line and a good point.
But for some reason they, they
should have done something where
you actually see a community. You see.
No, not a community. Something
that really affects riri.
Like, this is, this is why I
(23:04):
kind of just gave that general thing of
like everything else is. Is. Because
here's my, like
an issue I have is,
yes, the Hood
Parker has these vendettas. This
show is called Iron Heart.
(23:24):
So we really are following
riri. So we don't have time,
like, there's not enough time to
explore the vendettas, but
also make it meaningful
for, for riri. And, and if you, and
if they had done that because say,
(23:44):
say the first tunnel that was built
disrupted, like the neighborhood where,
where Natalie used to live. Okay. and
you see that. And as a viewer, you
pick up on like, why
riri would, not only not
just for the money, but also the personal
(24:07):
side of it. And as a
viewer, you, you start to empathize
with that loss. So then all of a sudden,
like you, that whole idea
about criminal versus hero,
like that gray area
becomes broader and more, emotional
(24:27):
and, and just the motivations are more clear.
Like, I don't know, they're at there. I, I
find myself. The more I think about it and more I
talk out loud and rant, I think
there's like two different shows almost
happening. There's the Hood show and then there's
Ironheart. And I like the Iron
(24:47):
Heart show because with the Ironheart show,
I get to see her play off of
Joe and I get to see her play off of
Natalie. The Hood show,
I'm not, I'm not on board with.
>> Will (25:04):
Yeah. And, and maybe. And I, I, I will agree
with you. I guess it really. As far as the
hood, I mean, the hood,
the band, around him.
>> Sarah (25:15):
Yeah.
>> Will (25:17):
I, mean, I, I, you know, I actually, you know, those characters.
Yeah. You know, you, know, are the oceans 11 or,
or spy Kids or whatever. Or whatever. You know, whatever.
You, you know, I, I've
seen like.
>> Sarah (25:31):
It wasn't Spy Kids. It was. Are we Ocean's 11
or are we, Are we the Sopranos? Like, are we
gonna kill people or are we just stealing things?
>> Will (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll think of Spy Kids. I was thinking
about Riri and Natalie to your point about, you, know, again,
the strength of their relationship. Yeah,
yeah. but you know, But I, I,
I think it was the moments.
Yeah. Maybe this is where the sixth episode,
run time, you know, hurts the show.
(26:03):
because to, I, I agree with you that
the, the motivations for, for
Parker
aren't they're, they're
sort of surface level and,
and not, you know, it's sort of like,
I mean, I know, you know, part, you know, we get some of it with like, with
(26:25):
the tattoos and the, you know, hiding the scales. You know, that,
that clown, talks about, you know, John doing the, you know,
the tattoos and all that kind of stuff. So we get, we get, we
do get that there is some kind of Faustian bargain that he's made
with probably Mephisto. But man, by the time this
airs, you know, that maybe be confirmed by
the, you know, by the time we,
(26:45):
talk about it next week. But, you know, so there
are, there's elements of it.
>> Sarah (26:50):
Yeah, I just. Okay. The, the
Mephisto of it. All right. Okay.
I thought like, after the whole
Wanda vision and then Loki
debacle with Memphis, though, like,
from, what I understand there's, there's issues
with actually utilizing that character because
(27:12):
of, like, this platform
is worldwide and they're not going to get
viewers over in China.
>> Will (27:21):
I've heard that. But I also have heard that they actually
cast Ash Baron Crow Coin. Has Mephisto
show up in the show?
>> Sarah (27:27):
Got it. Got it. Okay. All right. Spoiler
alert. Ruined.
Okay.
>> Will (27:33):
Like, I don't know.
>> Sarah (27:34):
Yeah, I, I think they're, they're, they're
teasing stuff with him. M. But
we, we still don't have like, like
at the end of, at the end of the last episode
when, when his cousin dies
and, and he's screaming the loss.
I will, I will be honest. I was like, I don't, I
(27:56):
don't care because I don't really,
I don't know their relationship
that well.
>> Will (28:04):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I hear you. I mean,
I know like, you know, there, you know, in the first
episode, whenever we were first introduced to
Parker and John, you know, when they see riri flying
over Chicago after she gets kicked out of mit,
you know, there was again, I, I get where you're coming from,
and I, and I agree. I mean, that's, that's one, you know, that's why I
said, I mean, I thought it was solid, but you know,
(28:26):
there's things that, I mean, not going to be like rose colored
glasses here. Yeah, there, that, that is an element that I
think is, is
not fully developed. I, I will, I will, I will. I
Will, I will agree with you there. There's elements. There's elements
of it there. We do see the relationship. We do know that
Park John was responsible for,
(28:47):
you know, taking Parker in whenever he was. When he
was young and helped raise him and that kind of stuff. But there. So.
But,
>> Sarah (28:58):
There. There's not really any emotional
attachment. And the other thing I have
with the whole hood
storyline is now
I like the. I, initially liked
the. The band. I like the ensemble,
even though they have some of the lamest powers. I'm
(29:19):
talking mainly about the punching twins.
But I, I don't.
I. I just. What I.
We're not seeing. They were
introduced to them on with a job
that goes wrong,
(29:40):
and then they need riri, and she's
really the only reason why the next one goes
correctly. And so I'm just thinking
like this whole time, especially every time
Parker, dibs come kind of pep talk. I'm just
like, how many jobs did you guys
do together before we got here,
before we recap? That went good.
(30:03):
Because I don't. I don't. I don't see the track
record that you're bragging about.
>> Will (30:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. And. And
I think that's the other thing too. I mean, Parker. I mean, he's not
like, maybe he's not a criminal
mastermind or. Or even, you know,
and. And not even another thing too.
That was a. That's a nitpick of mine. Just with these. With the,
you know, with the. With the heist that they were doing and this
(30:33):
whole contract thing. I mean,
you know, the. There. This contract,
as soon as these
barren capitalists of industry in Chicago, like, give
this to their lawyers or whatever, they would like,
immediately, like it's
null and void because it was. You know, these things are signed under
(30:54):
duress. So I mean, so again, you know, so
from that standpoint, just thinking through things,
your. To your point. Yeah. How do these things even go
successfully to begin with? And maybe that's. And that maybe that's a flaw.
You know, maybe that. That is to sort of highlight in the flaws of.
Of these characters. And. And why when riri,
when. Whenever they do do the, greenhouse
(31:15):
heist, you know, her.
Well, I guess it was her. It was actually her mistake that caused the problem
that time. But, you know.
>> Sarah (31:23):
Yeah, that was all on her.
>> Will (31:25):
That was all on her. But. But the other. But the other two. You see.
Well, actually, now that you think about it, even the. Was
on her because Natalie, like, jumped
in and caused us. Her to lose the thing. So.
>> Sarah (31:36):
Yeah.
>> Will (31:37):
Yeah. So.
>> Sarah (31:38):
But I, I also. I mean to your point about
the contracts, there. There's something just
not threatening.
>> Will (31:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (31:46):
About the Hood. And, And I, And
I kind of understand because they want to present him
as Robin Hood. And so
you. You feel like, oh, he can't be that bad.
But at the same time,
the, The. It's just
the. Like overall, the biggest.
(32:07):
My biggest issue, and I've said this about
other shows is especially in this
genre, I. I still believe
firmly that whether it's a movie or a TV show,
it's only ever as good as
the villain.
>> Will (32:22):
That's. That's true.
>> Sarah (32:24):
Be. And. And you can have like, like
you can have a really good strong
character, be your.
Your Your hero, but
their motivations often have to be
intertwined with that villain character.
And you have to understand what
the villain is doing and why or else everything
(32:47):
just feels basic
and just like, yeah, this is, we've seen
this story before and, and so you're.
Yeah. So. So I, I think that's where
really the. The root of my issues are
because with what I call the Iron
Heart storyline with Riri, Natalie
(33:09):
and Ezekiel, I find that
stuff to be fun and
not. Not totally like,
like blown away by anything, but I'm like, okay, I
could. I could get on board with this.
but. And it's not just because of
the emotional attachment or anything. I
(33:31):
just think that, the actress who plays
Riri has both good chem. On screen
chemistry with those other characters. More
so than anytime she's with
Parker in the gang.
>> Will (33:43):
Yeah. And also, you know, other.
I think the other thing too, like the relationships that she also
has Xavier and her mother as
well. I mean all.
>> Sarah (33:53):
Yeah.
>> Will (33:53):
I mean I think those are like the emotional cores of like
that. That is the. The
driving definitely driving the show and the story. very
well. And to your point about one thing we
mentioned about the villains and, and. And. And their motivations
and stuff. you know, you know, because, you
know, usually and maybe this is like
(34:14):
with. With how the third episode and
ended, with riri, you know, you
know, pulling. Pulling a Bruce Wayne and Batman begins. I
don't, you know, I don't have to. I don't. I won't kill you, but I
won't. I won't save you either.
with. With Joe or John.
maybe that is sort of the catalyst that will
(34:36):
m. As the story turns.
Will. Will. Will get that.
That tension point between the two of Them,
especially, when maybe when he
figures out that she, you know, did steal a piece of the cloak
and. And. And, you know,
and was responsible for.
>> Sarah (34:57):
For.
>> Will (34:57):
For John's death, especially whenever
whoever is manipulating the cloak,
from the mystical side, you know, had, you know, had John
show up in the, you know, and. And
expose the betrayal about it on the
14. So.
>> Sarah (35:15):
Even though he already told us who.
>> Will (35:17):
Yeah, Yeah, I know it's
Mephisto, but just to give myself, you know, we've been burned by.
For so many times over the years.
This was the show. Mephisto was supposed to show up in it.
He didn't.
>> Sarah (35:32):
This was the show. No, this was the show. No,
it was the show he was.
>> Will (35:37):
Supposed to show up in. Agatha. Nope.
>> Sarah (35:43):
what else do you want to talk about?
>> Will (35:45):
Well, I know we touched on. I know over the weekend, we. We,
you know, did talk about the AI of it all
and, and having the, you know,
the Natalie show up, you know, be to
her image showing up. And, And I know for
me it was just. I guess it was in the context of,
I think earlier in either last week or a week before last,
(36:07):
I was just sort of just reading, seeing some stories in
the news about, there was AI generator out
there. Someone had like, put a picture of their deceased
family member and, you know, generated a video and
stuff from it. And just, you know, just from the ethical
standpoint of just, you know, just. It just
really struck me and also, especially when
(36:28):
Natalie and. And Ronnie had
that moment, when, you know, when Ronnie,
what was, you know, doing the painting and, And Natalie like,
appeared work. You got away.
Worked away out of the laptop and projected herself
and, and just the whole ethics of it all.
And then also just thinking when Ronnie was asking, you know,
(36:49):
riri, could. Could you. Could you make, make another
Gary?
>> Sarah (36:53):
And.
>> Will (36:53):
And, and, and, and. And
riri said, no, sorry, I can't. Ah,
just the whole ethics of, you know, just some of the whole thing
around it too. Especially like, you
know, the. The. The dynamic that riri had
initially, you know, with. With.
With Natalie or the A.I.
(37:13):
natalie, very clear.
just the. Just it was
like she, you know, she. She was trying
to like, you know, end it and, you know, kill the, you
know, end the AI Race the AI. So it was
almost like, you know, she. It was on. On some
level she was like, this is wrong. But. But at the
(37:34):
same time, over, you know, as. As they,
you know, needed her to, you know, rebuild a
suit and, and all that kind of stuff, she began to
begin to fall on it. But it just really just, you know, there's
someone, you know, we've all in some form, you know, lost
people. And just thinking about the ethics of it and this thing and also just
like in the mcu, like in the past with Jarvis, you
(37:57):
know, becoming. Hm, with vision and,
and just, you know, because this show I think
was made, I think it, you know, it was filmed
a few years ago. So now, when
it was and in the past in MCU when we had
AI was like this cool thing. But now that we're getting, you know, more,
it's getting generative. AI is getting more mature
(38:19):
and seeing, thinking about that news article I read and like
people possibly regenerating, know old
family members and you know, I guess
it's interesting, you know, how
people, how, how this could be used to deal with
grief. And I'm thinking about Ronnie, you know, because she
like, her reaction to Natalie was not like, oh God, this is like, you know,
(38:39):
first it's like, you know, back away Satan. But then once you realize it wasn't a
ghost, it was like, you know, this is how that, you know, because of
the drive by and stuff, it was like really, you know,
you know, Ronnie was like very open to
it and stuff, you know, so just to contrast and I think, I think you
put in your notes, you know, as far as to talk about, like, why
didn't she like freak out whenever she, you know.
>> Sarah (39:01):
so. So here. So
I go back and forth about this whole thing.
>> Will (39:07):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (39:08):
Specifically with Ronnie, because
I find that her
reaction of asking
can you make Gary? Was very endearing, very
empathetic. Loved it.
Then I think about it
and I think about other things that occurred with
(39:28):
Ronnie in the show. Specifically
when the episode two begins and
Natalie and Ariri
wakes up and realizes what she's done in the
kitchen. Can I just, can I make sure
everyone understands? Like, let's. If.
If only this was a visual podcast, we would have a
(39:49):
whiteboard and I would be explaining something to Will
on the whiteboard. Okay. So just imagine if you will.
Okay. That I have a whiteboard and I'm drawing. Because
this is an apartment, right, Will, that we're
in.
>> Will (40:02):
Yep.
>> Sarah (40:02):
Okay, can you explain to me
why during that moment
Ronnie is yelling from somewhere
what feels like on the bottom floor of a
two story house? But I know they're in a
one story apartment, but she seems
very far away and for some reason
(40:25):
won't go into the kitchen. And so,
so Natalie And. Or, riri has enough time to get
Natalie, the iron suit on,
all out of the kitchen and into her room
without her mom ever realizing,
because her mom is still stuck somewhere and
just yelling, what's going on?
(40:49):
That stuck with me throughout the rest
of the episode. So by the time the
projection happens, then the thought
before I get to the very endearing moment
occurs. But then the thought, like, her whole
Satan thing, I'm just like, how many.
How much Like. Like
how much weird stuff has
(41:11):
riri built for her mom
to see? Because her mom is acting way too calm
about this. And I don't.
There's just this weird stuff. And then. And
then the more I think about that
line about Gary, I also go to
the first episode where it's
(41:31):
very clear that her mom recognizes
that riri has not dealt with her grief
almost to the point where she says it as if
she has.
So then I go. I go
like, I. It's not. It's.
I'm not gonna say it's a very contradictory
(41:53):
character because I've dealt with those on this show.
But. But she's walking a fine
line, and I really need a
blueprint of the apartment. I need the
writers to explain to me where she was when she
was yelling, and then all things will be
resolved. That's it.
>> Will (42:13):
Yeah. I mean. Yeah. I mean, but
I think as far as something you said earlier about,
you know, how many weird things built. I mean, you
know. Yeah. I mean, I think they're very. They're used to. I mean, this
is, This. Riri is clearly a prodigy.
>> Sarah (42:28):
Right. But she's also been at mit,
and to me, I get that. I got the sense in
the first episode that she
hasn't been home too much over
since the shooting because she doesn't want to deal
with the grief. And I think that's
overall why the, the
AI Ethics aside and everything,
(42:51):
reality aside, I mean, this is a
fantasy world. I know it's. It's almost too
close, but at the same time, it's
like, that's why it works. Because
now, simultaneously, the.
The. The lead is able to deal
with her grief. That's a motivating
factor to her becoming a hero
(43:14):
while simultaneously
creating, this. This AI that is
pivotal, like, that's an essential part of
a Iron man suit is the
AI. So. So
I. I like the building blocks. I. I just
need a sketch of the apartment, and I just need to understand
(43:34):
that.
But. But yeah, I. I, mean, their.
Their relationship is good. and
then. And then, you Have Stein,
which. Which it sounded like you were very
happy and satisfied with that parallel
that they came up with. Did you see that coming
or did you know about it beforehand?
>> Will (43:56):
No, I did not. I did not know about it at all. I mean,
I, you know, but it was a nice
connection to. To the. To
the original. To the original, Iron man film.
and. And you know, and. And
also, also, like, again,
it not only told us a lot about Ezekiel,
(44:17):
but also about riri as far as, you know,
the reason why she, you know, why she
builds all these suits and stuff is because, you know, Gary was actually
the Tony Stark fanboy, you know,
and. And. And also, you know, so, you
know, so I like that piece, but also I did like the tie and also
just, you know, why Ezekiel is the way
(44:38):
that he is as far as just the. Not
really just trying to just stay under the radar, even to
the point where he lets his neighbor's dog on his lawn and he
just won't, you know, he just won't do anything about it.
so, you know, so, so it. I.
I like that aspect of. Of the show. I did like that,
you know, the, The, That, you
(44:59):
know, that. That piece of
the tie, that's the throwback to. To. To
Obadiah. And you know, I can't help you. I can't help but think
about, you know, how
both Riri and. And. And
Antonio are very similar in the sense that they
did use the tools that they had to build these suits.
(45:20):
You know, you know, I think about Badiah, like the line, you know,
Tony Stark built, built, built this suit in
the cave with scraps and RiRi's going to like the
scrap yard to like, build, you know, to
build her early suits and get parts for. To. To
fix, you know, to fix the suit that she. She flew back to back
home in, after getting kicked out of mit.
(45:41):
so I did like that as those. Those parallels. and
also, you know, will we see another
parallel, with Ezekiel possibly,
especially after going to such links and being very clear
that he didn't want that mesh to get lost or anything, you know,
the tick that, you know, or any of these parts to like, get traced
back to him? you know, will that cause a. A
(46:01):
strain in their relationship that will, you know, we'll see in these next
three episodes?
>> Sarah (46:06):
Yeah, well, that we know that that's going to cause a strain.
I mean, yeah,
highlighting. But how much of a strain and
ultimately if he's going to be a bad guy or a
good guy that has yet to be,
yet to be seen. I want to go back to what you
just said about Gary.
(46:27):
and, and, and overall, just the,
and I think this is like the final point that I
wanted to touch base on, but just
riri's motivation to build the suit.
I, I, I, I
like the fact that she acknowledges that
Gary, Gary was the Tony Stark
(46:49):
fanboy. I understand that. I
also understand that there's something she has yet to say, which
I think she'll say within the next three episodes,
but that she's really building the suit for
safety because she witnessed two people she
loves gunned down in broad daylight.
>> Will (47:05):
Yep.
>> Sarah (47:06):
It's really kind of obvious, but
I, what drove me crazy
throughout these episodes is just
the constant, like, because I
can, and then I,
I, I, I, I don't know. There,
there's something about it where,
(47:29):
and, and as much
parallel that, that we talk about.
And I know she's not Tony at the end of the day,
I know she's not, she's not supposed to be Tony or
anything, but I
find, more often in the show
than not a lack
(47:50):
of charisma from riri,
and, and like, she
gets it when she, when she
has dialogue with Joe or when
she has dialogue with Natalie.
And, and then for me personally,
(48:10):
the rest of it, she doesn't have a lot of it,
like, there. I don't know why that is.
but, and, and I kind of
correlate this to the overall, like,
okay, but why the suit? And,
and also, I'm gonna talk a little bit about
your time in Wakanda and what you learned from
Shuri. Like, like, are we gonna, are we gonna go back there?
(48:33):
I, I, I kind of wish. Like,
it, it's weird to me because
we, we meet her in Wakanda forever in
mit. The first episode, within five minutes,
she's kicked out.
>> Will (48:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (48:46):
And then we hear about, like, this, this five
years prior, this emotional trauma that
occurred. But I don't, I'm like, thinking in m. My head, I'm
like, well, by that point she was already at mit,
so, so that. Did I miss something in
Wakanda forever? Was that brought up at all? And,
and also, like, I don't know, there's
(49:08):
just something weird with the timeline that I'm trying to
figure out.
>> Will (49:11):
But yeah, I mean, I think the,
you know, it's been, I've only watched Wakanda forever maybe
twice, so. And it's been a long time. I think
when it first came out, then shortly for after.
But I mean, I do what I do remember about her in Wakanda
Forever and the characters, the car, you know, the
specialness, the relationship there. yes.
(49:31):
you know, so I do remember that aspect of it.
as far as the charisma, I mean, I think there are
flashes. As far as what
the. I think whenever she was
with the, with the, with the Hoods
gang.
>> Sarah (49:48):
I.
>> Will (49:48):
Think, I think it was the
directing choice to make her more muted there because
of the ethical, ethical dilemma that she was.
She knew it on some level that this was
wrong. And especially like when I think, you know, whenever,
you know, after they do the tunnel heist,
when she has the.
(50:09):
Both she and Natalie glitch because of the
panic attacks. I mean, I think that's just, you
know, that. And then, you know, later in the, in the
show, you know, the other panic, the other major panic
attack and Natalie help her to come, you know, work, work
through it in, in the shop.
I think it was, I think it was a, that
(50:30):
maybe that lack of charisma or whatever was, was
intentional, but versus, like the
relationships that she's have with Joe and Natalie
and Xavier and her mom. because, you know, because
I did see the charisma, especially like when she was giving the
story to the, to the, the Dean,
and she was just like, don't give me that. I
(50:51):
love that. That was, that. I think that was the moment where I was like,
oh, yeah, I'm gonna like this show. Because she was trying
to, like, do that. you know, because the Dean was like,
look, I bent over backwards for your ass, and you just like,
you squandered the opportunity here, so. No, don't, don't give me
that.
>> Sarah (51:09):
Right, right. I, I was, I,
I like that the Dean called her out. yeah, yeah,
but I didn't, I didn't really. I thought more of the
Dean than I did of riri in that moment.
>> Will (51:24):
Yeah, I did too.
>> Sarah (51:25):
But also I'm like, wow.
>> Will (51:27):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought more of the Dean too. Just, you
know, just. I mean, I, I, Yeah,
I, I, Yeah, I get what you're saying though, because I, I
will say in the, in those opening moments of the show,
yeah, the, the, the, the.
Even that, yeah, even like, you know, the
flashback scenes that they had with, with, with Natalie.
(51:49):
Real, you know, real life Natalie and
Riri, Natalie just, she just sparkles. I mean, she just
really. And maybe that's, that's the point. I mean, that
Natalie was the, you know, the more outgoing
More, more
charismatic part of the pair,
because she does, you know, she does pop. Even whenever they have
(52:11):
their scenes together within A.I. natalie,
she still pops. More than, more. More than
Riri.
>> Sarah (52:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the A.I.
natalie, I think it's interesting
the subtleness that they're doing in terms of, of
it understanding that when
riri looks at her, it's bringing up
this emotional trauma.
>> Will (52:36):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:37):
Like, I love that. I, I think my favorite line
and scene was the whole, like,
It's only, that's only weird if you make it weird.
Like. Well, I mean, I mean,
it's, it's weird. Like. What?
Yeah, it's just weird.
>> Will (52:55):
Yeah, it's just weird. Yeah. And that's the other thing too, about the
AI. I'm glad you said that too, because, you know,
and one thing I meant to say earlier we were discussing the AI,
with these memories, you know, it's this projection is,
it's your memory of that person,
you know?
>> Sarah (53:11):
Right. And that's why, like, there are so many
blank spots or things like, they don't know
about, but things that they do. Because
for the genius that riri is, she hasn't made the
connection that, like, girl,
the AI is only going to know your memories.
So she's gonna, she's gonna know, like,
(53:31):
if you did something together, she's gonna know about that,
but she's not gonna go know about something you did
alone unless you told her about
it. So, so that makes sense. But I
think that, for me, the more I think about
it is Natalie is very
similar, to,
(53:51):
wow, vision and
the idea of humanity,
because the longer she exists,
she's, she's going to want
to, to be human
and to have a life. And so
that, the more I think about that, that
(54:12):
is more appealing and a much more interesting story. Story,
than arguably someone who
is trying to create a suit
because she can.
So, So I, like, and I'm, and
I'm not saying it's a complete loss because you don't
(54:33):
get Natalie without riri and vice versa.
So, so, So I think,
overall, I, I, I think
that the show has parts
and aspects that are good and like,
has potential, more so than
other of the weaker Disney plus shows
(54:54):
that we've talked about over the years.
But at the same time,
it, it does have, some weaknesses
that, that are just,
are just there.
>> Will (55:09):
Oh, yeah, they are. I mean, yeah. I mean, then, yeah, like,
yeah, there's no, I mean, all of these Disney
plus shows, even, even I mean, even
the. The gold standard ones that,
like long division, you know, had. Had.
Had had its flaws. So. But.
Yeah, but this. But this is not. This is not secret invasion either.
>> Sarah (55:31):
Oh, no, it's. It's definitely. It's like mid tier.
It's mid tier. Not one of the better ones. It's
not the. One of the worst ones. It's. It's like mid.
>> Will (55:39):
Yeah, I'll. Yeah, I'll reserve judgment as far
as, like, where. Where it ranks after. After the last
three. But. But, so far.
>> Sarah (55:47):
Well, you already said that you liked it more than Daredevil.
Sorry.
>> Will (55:52):
Yeah, I do.
>> Sarah (55:53):
I like how you say that before you even seen the last three
episodes.
>> Will (55:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I mean. But
yeah, you know, I. I guess I just didn't have that reverence
of the. The Netflix show that a lot of people had.
>> Sarah (56:05):
So this is when
listeners, I expect you go back and. And,
re. Listen to how Will talked about the show
at the time.
>> Will (56:15):
Oh, yeah. Oh, like I said, I enjoyed it. It's.
It's not that I did not enjoy it. I'm just saying I like this
one better. That's all.
>> Sarah (56:24):
Oh, interesting so far.
I'm gonna wait to say anything until
I've seen the full season, so.
Because I'm also. I'm. I'm also not
a defender of Daredevil.
I. I started high on that show, but by the end of
it, I was. I was checked out. I. I still have so many
(56:45):
questions about the way that show ended, but whatever.
that seems to be a trend of mine this year with
these TV shows is like, I start strong, and then by
the end of it, I'm like, what happened?
What happened?
all right, well, that is it for us
tonight. Will, why don't tell our listeners where they can
(57:07):
find you.
>> Will (57:08):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will and
Polk. W I L L M M P.
>> Sarah (57:13):
O L K. And you can find me there too, at
S.J. belmont, SJBLM O N T. Please follow
our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter, @cenanerd
on bluesky. Friend us on Facebook, follow us
on Instagram and threads at scene, underscore n
underscore nerd and visit our website
www.scenenerdpodcast.com. but most
importantly, rate, follow and comment on, Apple Podcasts,
(57:35):
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek
out. You're welcome.
Music
>> Sarah (00:13):
Greetings, Nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk. How are you doing tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:19):
Doing very well, Sarah. Happy July 1st.
>> Sarah (00:22):
Oh, my God. Thank God June's over.
Yeah, just felt long.
Like, usually July feels long to me, which I
am fully prepared for it to be the never
ending month. But June this
year felt like somehow there was
an extra week.
(00:43):
It was like. It's like, all right, all right,
let's. Let's. Let's get going.
>> Will (00:48):
Yeah, but, but, yeah,
yeah, but, yeah, but July, it's like, oh, you know, I
was posted, on our blog as far as, like, all the content. It's
like, I know earlier this year when we had, like, the
overlap of, like, the Last of Us and then
Andor and Daredevil. Now this month, we have,
like, all. Now we've got, like, another big month
(01:09):
of just, like, stuff. And then we're talking
Iron Heart tonight. And then, and then, of course, we
got, you know, a couple little small films coming out this
month. and then.
>> Sarah (01:19):
And also, yeah, there's
stuff this month, but I was thinking about it
before we got on. We.
There isn't a lot of overlap.
>> Will (01:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:31):
So. So it's, It's. It's an interesting
comparison to what happened in the,
I don't know, like, Collision Course that
was March through April through me.
Like, okay, calm down, people.
But, but, Because they decided
to change the release order of Iron
(01:52):
Heart, we're gonna get that out of way and then head to the
movies and then get back for the Bear, which
got, renewed for a fifth season. I'm not, I'm
not. Like, this is news to Will
for me. I was like, it's already gonna get.
>> Will (02:09):
You know, I, you know, I. Given the
lack of fanfare that
this fourth season has gotten, I mean, you know, I
honestly, you know, it was one of those things. Speaking of
June, it was like it was coming, and I knew it was, like,
going to come at the end of the month. And maybe to your point about, you know, June
being a long month, it just kind of snuck up on me.
(02:29):
But when it was released, I was like, oh, yeah, the pair
came out. Or maybe it's because we're going to wait
to cover it, you know, this month. Maybe that's why
I was just sort of like, well, I know I'm gonna watch it in. In a few
weeks. I'm not going to watch it when it drops in the. You know.
>> Sarah (02:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I Think it's
more about that and also trying to stay
away from anything, for
spoilers or for even just like.
No, I want to go into this form my own
opinions. I don't want to have anyone,
like, an idea of what I should expect.
(03:04):
Like, I don't want my expectations
hampered. I mean, I watched.
Okay, I know what to expect.
>> Will (03:13):
Yeah, but. Yeah, but it was. Yeah,
but, you know, but usually. But the thing is, especially with streaming
shows these days, usually when it's a
sure bet for renewal, I mean, you know,
it's not uncommon for things to get renewed, even, you know, either
day of premiere or a few days before the
premiere. And I guess that's where it was. And also, just.
(03:34):
Honestly, just the cast, everyone is
really just going to be so busy with upcoming projects. I mean, you got
Jeremy Allen White. I know he's doing the Springsteen. I think
he's, Is it also going to be in, the, upcoming
Star wars film? that. With Ryan Gosling, you know,
IO she's got stuff going, you know, I mean,
everybody's just super busy. So it was just like,
(03:54):
will they have time to film it? But season five
was officially.
>> Sarah (03:59):
will they have time to film the fifth season?
>> Will (04:02):
Yeah, they're gonna film it.
>> Sarah (04:03):
They give a release date
2026. So next year. Okay, next year.
>> Will (04:10):
Yep.
>> Sarah (04:10):
Yeah. The only reason why they had time to do a lot
of the projects that are getting released for these actors is
because they filmed season, three and season four back
to back.
>> Will (04:20):
Sure. True.
>> Sarah (04:21):
Yeah. So. So they had already figured that
out. And so, yes, they have projects, but
for most part they're in other than that, Star Wars
1, they're probably in the
promotional area which allows them
to, to, be open for filming
of that show. And they're probably all contracted for at least
five to six seasons, so.
>> Will (04:42):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (04:43):
Yeah.
>> Will (04:43):
And a good thing about it too is like, I mean, post production on the show,
it's not like one of the sci fi shows where you have like a bunch
of special effects and stuff either. So they can really turn it around.
>> Sarah (04:53):
Yes.
what else? Ah, Dene Ville New is set
to direct the next James Bond movie.
>> Will (05:04):
Yeah. So this was
a big Bond person, but I. But I am. And when
I. When I saw this, When I saw this news, I, was
pretty excited, actually. I know this is the first
project that since the acquisition
of the Bond franchise by Amazon,
from. From the MGN and the Broccoli family.
(05:26):
So, so I know there was a lot of discussion about Whether or
not Christopher Nolan was going to do it or, or
someone else. But, Yeah, but then he was,
signed to do it and now we'll just sort of see who's going to be
the next Bond.
>> Sarah (05:41):
Yeah, that, that's, that's the question that I really
want answered, especially with Dene on
board to direct. so
that, That'll be interesting. What direction they go with
that. Christopher, Nolan's the
Odyssey trailer has leaked online.
>> Will (05:59):
Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, Nolan
really, really likes to have his
trailers released, you know,
cinematically. But. But
apparently the, the trailer dropped.
Was leaked today. this is a screen grab from it and
I did not pull it because I didn't want to get a copyright strike
on our, on our show, because
(06:21):
Universal's pretty, pretty aggressively going after
it. But it, was, I think about a 70s, about a
minute and a half long teaser trailer. yeah,
it had, you know, clearly Matt Damon is playing
dcs. John, Barenthal was also in this
trailer with a mystery character. Tom Holland, of course, is in it
as well. And, I think, several. Many other other
(06:42):
folks. But, yeah, it did drop
and if you, if you're lucky enough to. If you want to see it,
it is out there on, On Twitter and, tick
tock. And. But, but I know Universal is
very aggressively struck, striking those,
sites down who are, putting
copyright strikes on them. So, you know, if you see it,
(07:02):
great. If not, you know, just be like the rest of us and
wait for it when it comes out. But this film is actually,
slated to come out in 2026 as well.
>> Sarah (07:11):
Yeah, in July.
>> Will (07:12):
In July. Yep.
>> Sarah (07:13):
Yep. Nolan loves
his July release date.
>> Will (07:18):
He does.
>> Sarah (07:19):
So, and then Matt Reeves and co
writer Matson Tomlin have finished the
Batman 2 SC script. And all I
have to say about that is, who cares?
Like, like, honestly, I'm not a big fan of
the first movie that came out, even though I love
the casting that occurred. But,
(07:41):
I mean, the Penguin,
like, I even forgot about that. But,
but I, I love the Penguin is my favorite,
show I watched last year.
But that doesn't necessarily mean, like,
oh, yay, the Batman too. Because
all I can really think about this is
(08:01):
it just makes me question things
because you're telling me
way back, like 5,000
years ago, because it feels like
it's been so long since the Batman
first came out. Like,
they didn't, they didn't think that it was gonna
do good enough to already have an idea for the
(08:23):
sequel. Like they didn't
like. I, I just, I just wonder.
So. So you wrote one movie
and, and from what I vaguely recall
of the ending, you didn't already have an
idea of where the character was gonna go for
sequels? Because it's Batman. Like
(08:45):
it's going to do well. It's
just, Sorry, I just For me, I
just question why so long? Why did
it take forever to get made? And especially
with all of the talk about spin offs
and all of this other stuff. And the only thing that really
came of anything regarding all of
(09:06):
that talk was the Penguin, which
also took a while to
get developed and in production and finally shot
and then aired last year. So.
Yeah, it's just weird to me.
>> Will (09:20):
Yeah, well, from what I understand, it was a
part of. It was. I think Matt had some things happen in his personal
life that interrupted him
drafting the, the, the
sequel. Plus, plus there was also
the writer strike. I mean that also added
time, where they could. Where pins were down. So,
(09:40):
so I think there were some extenuating circumstances
that delayed
getting the, the final script
ready. But he finally did finish it and
it'll be hopefully, I guess they'll be
really moving towards production and I think currently the, the film
is slated to come out in I think October of
2027.
>> Sarah (10:00):
So I'll believe it when I see.
>> Will (10:03):
It.
>> Sarah (10:07):
When I see it. because, because the
original was slated for an October date and it got
pushed back to a March. But.
>> Will (10:15):
Yes, yeah, yeah, but Warner, Warner does
that though, see, with a lot of their films.
>> Sarah (10:20):
Yes, they do. Yes, they do.
another trailer I did not see was Eyes on
Wakanda which, dropped and It's a
new four episode animated series in
that is coming to Disney plus on August
27th.
>> Will (10:36):
Yep, yep. So yeah, that's the
animated. That's the other Ryan Coogler.
and I've also developed this
and it looks like, I think it's a prequel, if I recall, for, for some of
the backstory for, for
Wakanda. And Yeah, I think all four episodes
are dropping at once. So I did see, I did see the little teaser that
they dropped today. It looks really good. Looks really good.
>> Sarah (10:58):
That's good. Yeah, that's good. And it makes sense that
you drop that,
while people are watching Iron Heart.
I know the, the
second half of the season dropped
today. tonight we're just talking about the first three
episodes and next week we'll wrap up with the final three
episodes and all that. I'm M
(11:21):
thinking about is the fact that we didn't talk about how we're going to do
this during the pre show.
So, I'm just gonna go through
each episode's IMDb
summary. Okay. And then I'll
circle back and just say an
overall thought that, that can
(11:44):
get us started. Okay. I don't think we need to
break down necessarily episode by episode, but
that's just me. so, so
episode one is called Take Me Home. MIT
student riri Williams builds an advanced armor
suit inspired by Tony Stark. While dealing with
challenges as a young black woman in tech, she
(12:04):
confronts a tech based threat and must decide
if she's ready to become iron heart. The
second episode, will the real Natalie please
stand up? RiRi's new AI dredges
up, painful men at Murray's ahead of her first
heist with Parker and his crew in
episode three, We Endanger Girl. RiRi
is uncomfortable being part of Parker's crew.
(12:27):
Two more heists, Max, and she's out,
she promises. So,
Will, what is like
an overall or an opening
thought that you have about
RiRi and these, these three
episodes?
>> Will (12:45):
Yeah. Yeah. So my overall first thought
is, you know, Disney really like
screwed the pooch with the lack
of publicity for this show because
I, I actually really did enjoy the, these
three episodes overall. Did they blow me away?
you know, no, but, but,
(13:06):
you know, but it also, but they were very solid.
I also think that just, I'll just go ahead and just put
it out there as far as some of the, the review
bombing that was happening by, a lot of neck
beards and people, you know, in bad faith. What, you know,
review bombing the show before it even aired. I mean, we
just call it for what it is. It's a bunch, you know, it was just a bunch of
(13:27):
misogynist, racist. And so,
and you know, I think it's. And so when I did
see the 86 rotten
tomato score, I mean, for, you know, for folks who do put
stock in those things, I was just like, you know, some, you know, and I do
use it as a barometer. you know, certified fresh. I was
like, you know, that was a nice fu to all those review bombers,
(13:48):
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I mean, but I do
have it too. What, As I said earlier, I, I, I'm glad. You
know, I know, it was a lot of grassroots,
organic, you know, publicity that
people did for this show. I do. But I also
do think that it was very wise of them to,
to do this, this, this Release structure.
(14:09):
How. How they. How they rolled it out with the three
and three. Because obviously, like you said, we
haven't watched the. The final three episodes that
are airing tonight as we were. As we're recording this.
But I, I, they, you know, as a
miniseries, I think they. The three
stories do work very,
(14:30):
like a little mini movie, which, you know, is. I think it's
more common these days. Whenever series do, you
know, get rolled out, they'll do it this way. And.
And I think that really did complement the. The show very
well to do it that way. because I will say,
you know, the sec. The. The first episode, you
know, I've watched, I watched. Watches the
(14:50):
episodes twice because I wanted to be really, just
to be fair, I try to always watch things twice if I can.
And you know,
the first episode. The first episode when
I first watched it, like I said, didn't blow me
away, but I was just like, this is entertaining.
but watching everything again, this show has
(15:11):
a lot in it and a lot. And I don't know, whenever we get in more
detail, breakdown on some of the. Some of the
aspects of it, you know, it
really is a very solid and very, very good show in my opinion. I
like. Honestly, I'll just put it out there. I like the better in Daredevil.
Born Again.
>> Sarah (15:28):
Wow.
>> Will (15:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (15:30):
Interesting. I like this
show. I'm not in love with this show. I. I
think it has a lot of flaws.
I, I have. I have issues with it.
and I, Yeah,
I. I think. I think Disney did a horrible
job at promotion, but also I
(15:53):
think based on the job that they did and what
they delivered, I feel like they just wanted to.
To hide it. They wanted to bury it almost.
>> Will (16:03):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (16:04):
because they didn't believe in it. and so.
But
overall it's. It's interesting
because since watching the three episodes,
I like, I was. I was pretty engaged
through most of it.
and. But I'm a bit biased. And
(16:24):
I'm biased and I say that because I'm
biased towards the actress who plays
Natalie
because that actress, whose name
is Lyric, she played a very
pivotal character on this Is Us. okay.
And I recently watched her
(16:45):
on the that Was Us podcast because she
comes on and I love her
relationship, like, both on and off screen with
Sterling K. Brown. So
I'm a bit biased to like that character,
and root for. And it's. It's weird
because when. When I talk about riri,
(17:09):
I liked her Riri more in Wakanda. Forever
than I do in this show. And.
But it's also
strange to say that because
I find her relationship with
Natalie Verse and
her relationship with Joe,
(17:29):
who. I mean, I know his real name,
Ezekiel, AKA Ezekiel
Stein, to be the best parts of the show.
Like the. The. Her. The actress who
plays Riri, her chemistry with both Lyric
and Alden. Alden Reich. Like,
(17:50):
those two dynamics
work so well.
>> Will (17:54):
Yep.
>> Sarah (17:55):
And then everything else is,
I would say,
boring to me.
Like I say in the sermons of like,
okay, now we're entering after school special
territory. But,
>> Will (18:13):
Yeah, see, see, here's the thing. This is why,
Why it's like. And maybe it's just, I don't
know, they're like where. I think this
show where people. Because I know, you know, obviously we'll
talk about the AI Piece and that was one of the things you and I messaged about over the
weekend. But there was one element of the story
with. With. With,
the hood, with Parker and. And
(18:36):
his. And his m. And his, you know, taking on the
billionaires and stuff. And. And part of it is
something that, you know, I hadn't heard any people reactors,
at least the ones. Some of. Some of the big bigger ones talk
about. But the whole thing with the whole,
first mission with RIRI and the,
With the tunnel. And you know, they
(18:58):
talk about how, you know, the. The
tunnel. One of the, you know, underlying things that's going to
connect the city and all the. All these great things that the
tunnel is going to do. And then, you know, I can't help but think about like,
gentrification and also like. And seeing how
like, freeways that are like, cut, through,
like minority, black, you know,
(19:18):
communities and stuff.
>> Sarah (19:19):
Yeah.
>> Will (19:20):
And yeah, it's supposed to be all this great stuff and, and
all that. And, and. And so when
I see this thing about the tunnel, I think about an experience here, like in
the town that I live in where everybody talked about how great the
freeway is going to be cut through, you know, m. You know, going to be done. But of course
they like, cut it right through the middle of the black neighborhood.
And so, so for me, when I watch
(19:40):
it, and maybe, you know, maybe it is a cultural filter kind of thing that
maybe for. For. Maybe that's why it resonates with some
audiences more than others. You know, they're. They're
experiences that are built into the show
that I can. That I, That I identify
with because I'm like, oh, yeah, this reminds, you know, the. The
tunnel and, and and, and, and the crew
that, you know, whenever they were like talking about
(20:02):
some of the. The. The
why they were doing it, I was like, ah,
yeah, you know, I thought about the Durham Freeway here in town. Because
it's the kind of things that like that, you know, those are.
It may not be like. And, and, and it's. And
it's to be good writing because it's not like the over.
Oh, you know, it's not the big
(20:22):
exposition dump or beating you over the head with it.
But, you know, those are some of the things that you can like, bake into the
story that, you know, that, may, you know, that may
miss. That some viewers may miss.
>> Sarah (20:35):
Right, right.
>> Will (20:36):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (20:37):
So you're saying that not a lot of people are talking about
it.
>> Will (20:41):
I mean, not that. I mean, that's just. Well, I mean. Well, you know, a lot of
things I've seen this is like, you know, the whole criminal. Is
she a criminal? You know, the Robin Hood, the whole, you know, rich,
Robin are rich. And you know, you
know, of course there's like the. Scott, Scott, you know,
the rear. He's doing criminal acts. And then, you know, there's the.
Well, so, you know, Scott Lang was a felon, you know, as far as, you
(21:02):
know. You know, so there's been some of that discourse out there,
but, But I haven't seen
anything as far as some of the, you know, that
aspect of the tunnel. I mean, and maybe there is. I just, you know.
>> Sarah (21:13):
Right, right. No, I mean, you raised a
very valid point.
>> Will (21:18):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:19):
that. And obviously from where I
grew up, like, I don't have that same
experience at all. And that can be lost on me.
But at the same time, hearing
that and the few discussions I have
heard overheard about this show,
people have point out is like,
considering we're talking about the hood and his
(21:42):
vendettas, like this idea
that you have a.
Someone who. Whose power and ability
lies in tech versus someone
who's in the mystical realm, like,
magic versus technology. That's very interesting,
but for me as a viewer,
they ain't selling
(22:04):
doesn't. For some reason it does not. It
falls flat. And, And I
all. I mainly blame Antony
Ramos, but I also know he's just performing
what he. Like the script. But
I, I just. There's something about it. Like.
And I will be frankly honest, like,
I mean, yes, we already established I
(22:27):
don't have that experience with the tunnels to make that connection.
even though there is a line in the show which
did stand out to Me where they talk about like,
yeah, but nobody seems to care about the communities that these
tunnels are going to destroy.
>> Will (22:41):
That's it. That was.
>> Sarah (22:43):
Yeah, like, like that's a great line and a good point.
But for some reason they, they
should have done something where
you actually see a community. You see.
No, not a community. Something
that really affects riri.
Like, this is, this is why I
(23:04):
kind of just gave that general thing of
like everything else is. Is. Because
here's my, like
an issue I have is,
yes, the Hood
Parker has these vendettas. This
show is called Iron Heart.
(23:24):
So we really are following
riri. So we don't have time,
like, there's not enough time to
explore the vendettas, but
also make it meaningful
for, for riri. And, and if you, and
if they had done that because say,
(23:44):
say the first tunnel that was built
disrupted, like the neighborhood where,
where Natalie used to live. Okay. and
you see that. And as a viewer, you
pick up on like, why
riri would, not only not
just for the money, but also the personal
(24:07):
side of it. And as a
viewer, you, you start to empathize
with that loss. So then all of a sudden,
like you, that whole idea
about criminal versus hero,
like that gray area
becomes broader and more, emotional
(24:27):
and, and just the motivations are more clear.
Like, I don't know, they're at there. I, I
find myself. The more I think about it and more I
talk out loud and rant, I think
there's like two different shows almost
happening. There's the Hood show and then there's
Ironheart. And I like the Iron
(24:47):
Heart show because with the Ironheart show,
I get to see her play off of
Joe and I get to see her play off of
Natalie. The Hood show,
I'm not, I'm not on board with.
>> Will (25:04):
Yeah. And, and maybe. And I, I, I will agree
with you. I guess it really. As far as the
hood, I mean, the hood,
the band, around him.
>> Sarah (25:15):
Yeah.
>> Will (25:17):
I, mean, I, I, you know, I actually, you know, those characters.
Yeah. You know, you, know, are the oceans 11 or,
or spy Kids or whatever. Or whatever. You know, whatever.
You, you know, I, I've
seen like.
>> Sarah (25:31):
It wasn't Spy Kids. It was. Are we Ocean's 11
or are we, Are we the Sopranos? Like, are we
gonna kill people or are we just stealing things?
>> Will (25:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll think of Spy Kids. I was thinking
about Riri and Natalie to your point about, you, know, again,
the strength of their relationship. Yeah,
yeah. but you know, But I, I,
I think it was the moments.
Yeah. Maybe this is where the sixth episode,
run time, you know, hurts the show.
(26:03):
because to, I, I agree with you that
the, the motivations for, for
Parker
aren't they're, they're
sort of surface level and,
and not, you know, it's sort of like,
I mean, I know, you know, part, you know, we get some of it with like, with
(26:25):
the tattoos and the, you know, hiding the scales. You know, that,
that clown, talks about, you know, John doing the, you know,
the tattoos and all that kind of stuff. So we get, we get, we
do get that there is some kind of Faustian bargain that he's made
with probably Mephisto. But man, by the time this
airs, you know, that maybe be confirmed by
the, you know, by the time we,
(26:45):
talk about it next week. But, you know, so there
are, there's elements of it.
>> Sarah (26:50):
Yeah, I just. Okay. The, the
Mephisto of it. All right. Okay.
I thought like, after the whole
Wanda vision and then Loki
debacle with Memphis, though, like,
from, what I understand there's, there's issues
with actually utilizing that character because
(27:12):
of, like, this platform
is worldwide and they're not going to get
viewers over in China.
>> Will (27:21):
I've heard that. But I also have heard that they actually
cast Ash Baron Crow Coin. Has Mephisto
show up in the show?
>> Sarah (27:27):
Got it. Got it. Okay. All right. Spoiler
alert. Ruined.
Okay.
>> Will (27:33):
Like, I don't know.
>> Sarah (27:34):
Yeah, I, I think they're, they're, they're
teasing stuff with him. M. But
we, we still don't have like, like
at the end of, at the end of the last episode
when, when his cousin dies
and, and he's screaming the loss.
I will, I will be honest. I was like, I don't, I
(27:56):
don't care because I don't really,
I don't know their relationship
that well.
>> Will (28:04):
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I hear you. I mean,
I know like, you know, there, you know, in the first
episode, whenever we were first introduced to
Parker and John, you know, when they see riri flying
over Chicago after she gets kicked out of mit,
you know, there was again, I, I get where you're coming from,
and I, and I agree. I mean, that's, that's one, you know, that's why I
said, I mean, I thought it was solid, but you know,
(28:26):
there's things that, I mean, not going to be like rose colored
glasses here. Yeah, there, that, that is an element that I
think is, is
not fully developed. I, I will, I will, I will. I
Will, I will agree with you there. There's elements. There's elements
of it there. We do see the relationship. We do know that
Park John was responsible for,
(28:47):
you know, taking Parker in whenever he was. When he
was young and helped raise him and that kind of stuff. But there. So.
But,
>> Sarah (28:58):
There. There's not really any emotional
attachment. And the other thing I have
with the whole hood
storyline is now
I like the. I, initially liked
the. The band. I like the ensemble,
even though they have some of the lamest powers. I'm
(29:19):
talking mainly about the punching twins.
But I, I don't.
I. I just. What I.
We're not seeing. They were
introduced to them on with a job
that goes wrong,
(29:40):
and then they need riri, and she's
really the only reason why the next one goes
correctly. And so I'm just thinking
like this whole time, especially every time
Parker, dibs come kind of pep talk. I'm just
like, how many jobs did you guys
do together before we got here,
before we recap? That went good.
(30:03):
Because I don't. I don't. I don't see the track
record that you're bragging about.
>> Will (30:12):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. And. And
I think that's the other thing too. I mean, Parker. I mean, he's not
like, maybe he's not a criminal
mastermind or. Or even, you know,
and. And not even another thing too.
That was a. That's a nitpick of mine. Just with these. With the,
you know, with the. With the heist that they were doing and this
(30:33):
whole contract thing. I mean,
you know, the. There. This contract,
as soon as these
barren capitalists of industry in Chicago, like, give
this to their lawyers or whatever, they would like,
immediately, like it's
null and void because it was. You know, these things are signed under
(30:54):
duress. So I mean, so again, you know, so
from that standpoint, just thinking through things,
your. To your point. Yeah. How do these things even go
successfully to begin with? And maybe that's. And that maybe that's a flaw.
You know, maybe that. That is to sort of highlight in the flaws of.
Of these characters. And. And why when riri,
when. Whenever they do do the, greenhouse
(31:15):
heist, you know, her.
Well, I guess it was her. It was actually her mistake that caused the problem
that time. But, you know.
>> Sarah (31:23):
Yeah, that was all on her.
>> Will (31:25):
That was all on her. But. But the other. But the other two. You see.
Well, actually, now that you think about it, even the. Was
on her because Natalie, like, jumped
in and caused us. Her to lose the thing. So.
>> Sarah (31:36):
Yeah.
>> Will (31:37):
Yeah. So.
>> Sarah (31:38):
But I, I also. I mean to your point about
the contracts, there. There's something just
not threatening.
>> Will (31:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (31:46):
About the Hood. And, And I, And
I kind of understand because they want to present him
as Robin Hood. And so
you. You feel like, oh, he can't be that bad.
But at the same time,
the, The. It's just
the. Like overall, the biggest.
(32:07):
My biggest issue, and I've said this about
other shows is especially in this
genre, I. I still believe
firmly that whether it's a movie or a TV show,
it's only ever as good as
the villain.
>> Will (32:22):
That's. That's true.
>> Sarah (32:24):
Be. And. And you can have like, like
you can have a really good strong
character, be your.
Your Your hero, but
their motivations often have to be
intertwined with that villain character.
And you have to understand what
the villain is doing and why or else everything
(32:47):
just feels basic
and just like, yeah, this is, we've seen
this story before and, and so you're.
Yeah. So. So I, I think that's where
really the. The root of my issues are
because with what I call the Iron
Heart storyline with Riri, Natalie
(33:09):
and Ezekiel, I find that
stuff to be fun and
not. Not totally like,
like blown away by anything, but I'm like, okay, I
could. I could get on board with this.
but. And it's not just because of
the emotional attachment or anything. I
(33:31):
just think that, the actress who plays
Riri has both good chem. On screen
chemistry with those other characters. More
so than anytime she's with
Parker in the gang.
>> Will (33:43):
Yeah. And also, you know, other.
I think the other thing too, like the relationships that she also
has Xavier and her mother as
well. I mean all.
>> Sarah (33:53):
Yeah.
>> Will (33:53):
I mean I think those are like the emotional cores of like
that. That is the. The
driving definitely driving the show and the story. very
well. And to your point about one thing we
mentioned about the villains and, and. And. And their motivations
and stuff. you know, you know, because, you
know, usually and maybe this is like
(34:14):
with. With how the third episode and
ended, with riri, you know, you
know, pulling. Pulling a Bruce Wayne and Batman begins. I
don't, you know, I don't have to. I don't. I won't kill you, but I
won't. I won't save you either.
with. With Joe or John.
maybe that is sort of the catalyst that will
(34:36):
m. As the story turns.
Will. Will. Will get that.
That tension point between the two of Them,
especially, when maybe when he
figures out that she, you know, did steal a piece of the cloak
and. And. And, you know,
and was responsible for.
>> Sarah (34:57):
For.
>> Will (34:57):
For John's death, especially whenever
whoever is manipulating the cloak,
from the mystical side, you know, had, you know, had John
show up in the, you know, and. And
expose the betrayal about it on the
14. So.
>> Sarah (35:15):
Even though he already told us who.
>> Will (35:17):
Yeah, Yeah, I know it's
Mephisto, but just to give myself, you know, we've been burned by.
For so many times over the years.
This was the show. Mephisto was supposed to show up in it.
He didn't.
>> Sarah (35:32):
This was the show. No, this was the show. No,
it was the show he was.
>> Will (35:37):
Supposed to show up in. Agatha. Nope.
>> Sarah (35:43):
what else do you want to talk about?
>> Will (35:45):
Well, I know we touched on. I know over the weekend, we. We,
you know, did talk about the AI of it all
and, and having the, you know,
the Natalie show up, you know, be to
her image showing up. And, And I know for
me it was just. I guess it was in the context of,
I think earlier in either last week or a week before last,
(36:07):
I was just sort of just reading, seeing some stories in
the news about, there was AI generator out
there. Someone had like, put a picture of their deceased
family member and, you know, generated a video and
stuff from it. And just, you know, just from the ethical
standpoint of just, you know, just. It just
really struck me and also, especially when
(36:28):
Natalie and. And Ronnie had
that moment, when, you know, when Ronnie,
what was, you know, doing the painting and, And Natalie like,
appeared work. You got away.
Worked away out of the laptop and projected herself
and, and just the whole ethics of it all.
And then also just thinking when Ronnie was asking, you know,
(36:49):
riri, could. Could you. Could you make, make another
Gary?
>> Sarah (36:53):
And.
>> Will (36:53):
And, and, and, and. And
riri said, no, sorry, I can't. Ah,
just the whole ethics of, you know, just some of the whole thing
around it too. Especially like, you
know, the. The. The dynamic that riri had
initially, you know, with. With.
With Natalie or the A.I.
(37:13):
natalie, very clear.
just the. Just it was
like she, you know, she. She was trying
to like, you know, end it and, you know, kill the, you
know, end the AI Race the AI. So it was
almost like, you know, she. It was on. On some
level she was like, this is wrong. But. But at the
(37:34):
same time, over, you know, as. As they,
you know, needed her to, you know, rebuild a
suit and, and all that kind of stuff, she began to
begin to fall on it. But it just really just, you know, there's
someone, you know, we've all in some form, you know, lost
people. And just thinking about the ethics of it and this thing and also just
like in the mcu, like in the past with Jarvis, you
(37:57):
know, becoming. Hm, with vision and,
and just, you know, because this show I think
was made, I think it, you know, it was filmed
a few years ago. So now, when
it was and in the past in MCU when we had
AI was like this cool thing. But now that we're getting, you know, more,
it's getting generative. AI is getting more mature
(38:19):
and seeing, thinking about that news article I read and like
people possibly regenerating, know old
family members and you know, I guess
it's interesting, you know, how
people, how, how this could be used to deal with
grief. And I'm thinking about Ronnie, you know, because she
like, her reaction to Natalie was not like, oh God, this is like, you know,
(38:39):
first it's like, you know, back away Satan. But then once you realize it wasn't a
ghost, it was like, you know, this is how that, you know, because of
the drive by and stuff, it was like really, you know,
you know, Ronnie was like very open to
it and stuff, you know, so just to contrast and I think, I think you
put in your notes, you know, as far as to talk about, like, why
didn't she like freak out whenever she, you know.
>> Sarah (39:01):
so. So here. So
I go back and forth about this whole thing.
>> Will (39:07):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (39:08):
Specifically with Ronnie, because
I find that her
reaction of asking
can you make Gary? Was very endearing, very
empathetic. Loved it.
Then I think about it
and I think about other things that occurred with
(39:28):
Ronnie in the show. Specifically
when the episode two begins and
Natalie and Ariri
wakes up and realizes what she's done in the
kitchen. Can I just, can I make sure
everyone understands? Like, let's. If.
If only this was a visual podcast, we would have a
(39:49):
whiteboard and I would be explaining something to Will
on the whiteboard. Okay. So just imagine if you will.
Okay. That I have a whiteboard and I'm drawing. Because
this is an apartment, right, Will, that we're
in.
>> Will (40:02):
Yep.
>> Sarah (40:02):
Okay, can you explain to me
why during that moment
Ronnie is yelling from somewhere
what feels like on the bottom floor of a
two story house? But I know they're in a
one story apartment, but she seems
very far away and for some reason
(40:25):
won't go into the kitchen. And so,
so Natalie And. Or, riri has enough time to get
Natalie, the iron suit on,
all out of the kitchen and into her room
without her mom ever realizing,
because her mom is still stuck somewhere and
just yelling, what's going on?
(40:49):
That stuck with me throughout the rest
of the episode. So by the time the
projection happens, then the thought
before I get to the very endearing moment
occurs. But then the thought, like, her whole
Satan thing, I'm just like, how many.
How much Like. Like
how much weird stuff has
(41:11):
riri built for her mom
to see? Because her mom is acting way too calm
about this. And I don't.
There's just this weird stuff. And then. And
then the more I think about that
line about Gary, I also go to
the first episode where it's
(41:31):
very clear that her mom recognizes
that riri has not dealt with her grief
almost to the point where she says it as if
she has.
So then I go. I go
like, I. It's not. It's.
I'm not gonna say it's a very contradictory
(41:53):
character because I've dealt with those on this show.
But. But she's walking a fine
line, and I really need a
blueprint of the apartment. I need the
writers to explain to me where she was when she
was yelling, and then all things will be
resolved. That's it.
>> Will (42:13):
Yeah. I mean. Yeah. I mean, but
I think as far as something you said earlier about,
you know, how many weird things built. I mean, you
know. Yeah. I mean, I think they're very. They're used to. I mean, this
is, This. Riri is clearly a prodigy.
>> Sarah (42:28):
Right. But she's also been at mit,
and to me, I get that. I got the sense in
the first episode that she
hasn't been home too much over
since the shooting because she doesn't want to deal
with the grief. And I think that's
overall why the, the
AI Ethics aside and everything,
(42:51):
reality aside, I mean, this is a
fantasy world. I know it's. It's almost too
close, but at the same time, it's
like, that's why it works. Because
now, simultaneously, the.
The. The lead is able to deal
with her grief. That's a motivating
factor to her becoming a hero
(43:14):
while simultaneously
creating, this. This AI that is
pivotal, like, that's an essential part of
a Iron man suit is the
AI. So. So
I. I like the building blocks. I. I just
need a sketch of the apartment, and I just need to understand
(43:34):
that.
But. But yeah, I. I, mean, their.
Their relationship is good. and
then. And then, you Have Stein,
which. Which it sounded like you were very
happy and satisfied with that parallel
that they came up with. Did you see that coming
or did you know about it beforehand?
>> Will (43:56):
No, I did not. I did not know about it at all. I mean,
I, you know, but it was a nice
connection to. To the. To
the original. To the original, Iron man film.
and. And you know, and. And
also, also, like, again,
it not only told us a lot about Ezekiel,
(44:17):
but also about riri as far as, you know,
the reason why she, you know, why she
builds all these suits and stuff is because, you know, Gary was actually
the Tony Stark fanboy, you know,
and. And. And also, you know, so, you
know, so I like that piece, but also I did like the tie and also
just, you know, why Ezekiel is the way
(44:38):
that he is as far as just the. Not
really just trying to just stay under the radar, even to
the point where he lets his neighbor's dog on his lawn and he
just won't, you know, he just won't do anything about it.
so, you know, so, so it. I.
I like that aspect of. Of the show. I did like that,
you know, the, The, That, you
(44:59):
know, that. That piece of
the tie, that's the throwback to. To. To
Obadiah. And you know, I can't help you. I can't help but think
about, you know, how
both Riri and. And. And
Antonio are very similar in the sense that they
did use the tools that they had to build these suits.
(45:20):
You know, you know, I think about Badiah, like the line, you know,
Tony Stark built, built, built this suit in
the cave with scraps and RiRi's going to like the
scrap yard to like, build, you know, to
build her early suits and get parts for. To. To
fix, you know, to fix the suit that she. She flew back to back
home in, after getting kicked out of mit.
(45:41):
so I did like that as those. Those parallels. and
also, you know, will we see another
parallel, with Ezekiel possibly,
especially after going to such links and being very clear
that he didn't want that mesh to get lost or anything, you know,
the tick that, you know, or any of these parts to like, get traced
back to him? you know, will that cause a. A
(46:01):
strain in their relationship that will, you know, we'll see in these next
three episodes?
>> Sarah (46:06):
Yeah, well, that we know that that's going to cause a strain.
I mean, yeah,
highlighting. But how much of a strain and
ultimately if he's going to be a bad guy or a
good guy that has yet to be,
yet to be seen. I want to go back to what you
just said about Gary.
(46:27):
and, and, and overall, just the,
and I think this is like the final point that I
wanted to touch base on, but just
riri's motivation to build the suit.
I, I, I, I
like the fact that she acknowledges that
Gary, Gary was the Tony Stark
(46:49):
fanboy. I understand that. I
also understand that there's something she has yet to say, which
I think she'll say within the next three episodes,
but that she's really building the suit for
safety because she witnessed two people she
loves gunned down in broad daylight.
>> Will (47:05):
Yep.
>> Sarah (47:06):
It's really kind of obvious, but
I, what drove me crazy
throughout these episodes is just
the constant, like, because I
can, and then I,
I, I, I, I don't know. There,
there's something about it where,
(47:29):
and, and as much
parallel that, that we talk about.
And I know she's not Tony at the end of the day,
I know she's not, she's not supposed to be Tony or
anything, but I
find, more often in the show
than not a lack
(47:50):
of charisma from riri,
and, and like, she
gets it when she, when she
has dialogue with Joe or when
she has dialogue with Natalie.
And, and then for me personally,
(48:10):
the rest of it, she doesn't have a lot of it,
like, there. I don't know why that is.
but, and, and I kind of
correlate this to the overall, like,
okay, but why the suit? And,
and also, I'm gonna talk a little bit about
your time in Wakanda and what you learned from
Shuri. Like, like, are we gonna, are we gonna go back there?
(48:33):
I, I, I kind of wish. Like,
it, it's weird to me because
we, we meet her in Wakanda forever in
mit. The first episode, within five minutes,
she's kicked out.
>> Will (48:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (48:46):
And then we hear about, like, this, this five
years prior, this emotional trauma that
occurred. But I don't, I'm like, thinking in m. My head, I'm
like, well, by that point she was already at mit,
so, so that. Did I miss something in
Wakanda forever? Was that brought up at all? And,
and also, like, I don't know, there's
(49:08):
just something weird with the timeline that I'm trying to
figure out.
>> Will (49:11):
But yeah, I mean, I think the,
you know, it's been, I've only watched Wakanda forever maybe
twice, so. And it's been a long time. I think
when it first came out, then shortly for after.
But I mean, I do what I do remember about her in Wakanda
Forever and the characters, the car, you know, the
specialness, the relationship there. yes.
(49:31):
you know, so I do remember that aspect of it.
as far as the charisma, I mean, I think there are
flashes. As far as what
the. I think whenever she was
with the, with the, with the Hoods
gang.
>> Sarah (49:48):
I.
>> Will (49:48):
Think, I think it was the
directing choice to make her more muted there because
of the ethical, ethical dilemma that she was.
She knew it on some level that this was
wrong. And especially like when I think, you know, whenever,
you know, after they do the tunnel heist,
when she has the.
(50:09):
Both she and Natalie glitch because of the
panic attacks. I mean, I think that's just, you
know, that. And then, you know, later in the, in the
show, you know, the other panic, the other major panic
attack and Natalie help her to come, you know, work, work
through it in, in the shop.
I think it was, I think it was a, that
(50:30):
maybe that lack of charisma or whatever was, was
intentional, but versus, like the
relationships that she's have with Joe and Natalie
and Xavier and her mom. because, you know, because
I did see the charisma, especially like when she was giving the
story to the, to the, the Dean,
and she was just like, don't give me that. I
(50:51):
love that. That was, that. I think that was the moment where I was like,
oh, yeah, I'm gonna like this show. Because she was trying
to, like, do that. you know, because the Dean was like,
look, I bent over backwards for your ass, and you just like,
you squandered the opportunity here, so. No, don't, don't give me
that.
>> Sarah (51:09):
Right, right. I, I was, I,
I like that the Dean called her out. yeah, yeah,
but I didn't, I didn't really. I thought more of the
Dean than I did of riri in that moment.
>> Will (51:24):
Yeah, I did too.
>> Sarah (51:25):
But also I'm like, wow.
>> Will (51:27):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I thought more of the Dean too. Just, you
know, just. I mean, I, I, Yeah,
I, I, Yeah, I get what you're saying though, because I, I
will say in the, in those opening moments of the show,
yeah, the, the, the, the.
Even that, yeah, even like, you know, the
flashback scenes that they had with, with, with Natalie.
(51:49):
Real, you know, real life Natalie and
Riri, Natalie just, she just sparkles. I mean, she just
really. And maybe that's, that's the point. I mean, that
Natalie was the, you know, the more outgoing
More, more
charismatic part of the pair,
because she does, you know, she does pop. Even whenever they have
(52:11):
their scenes together within A.I. natalie,
she still pops. More than, more. More than
Riri.
>> Sarah (52:18):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, the A.I.
natalie, I think it's interesting
the subtleness that they're doing in terms of, of
it understanding that when
riri looks at her, it's bringing up
this emotional trauma.
>> Will (52:36):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (52:37):
Like, I love that. I, I think my favorite line
and scene was the whole, like,
It's only, that's only weird if you make it weird.
Like. Well, I mean, I mean,
it's, it's weird. Like. What?
Yeah, it's just weird.
>> Will (52:55):
Yeah, it's just weird. Yeah. And that's the other thing too, about the
AI. I'm glad you said that too, because, you know,
and one thing I meant to say earlier we were discussing the AI,
with these memories, you know, it's this projection is,
it's your memory of that person,
you know?
>> Sarah (53:11):
Right. And that's why, like, there are so many
blank spots or things like, they don't know
about, but things that they do. Because
for the genius that riri is, she hasn't made the
connection that, like, girl,
the AI is only going to know your memories.
So she's gonna, she's gonna know, like,
(53:31):
if you did something together, she's gonna know about that,
but she's not gonna go know about something you did
alone unless you told her about
it. So, so that makes sense. But I
think that, for me, the more I think about
it is Natalie is very
similar, to,
(53:51):
wow, vision and
the idea of humanity,
because the longer she exists,
she's, she's going to want
to, to be human
and to have a life. And so
that, the more I think about that, that
(54:12):
is more appealing and a much more interesting story. Story,
than arguably someone who
is trying to create a suit
because she can.
So, So I, like, and I'm, and
I'm not saying it's a complete loss because you don't
(54:33):
get Natalie without riri and vice versa.
So, so, So I think,
overall, I, I, I think
that the show has parts
and aspects that are good and like,
has potential, more so than
other of the weaker Disney plus shows
(54:54):
that we've talked about over the years.
But at the same time,
it, it does have, some weaknesses
that, that are just,
are just there.
>> Will (55:09):
Oh, yeah, they are. I mean, yeah. I mean, then, yeah, like,
yeah, there's no, I mean, all of these Disney
plus shows, even, even I mean, even
the. The gold standard ones that,
like long division, you know, had. Had.
Had had its flaws. So. But.
Yeah, but this. But this is not. This is not secret invasion either.
>> Sarah (55:31):
Oh, no, it's. It's definitely. It's like mid tier.
It's mid tier. Not one of the better ones. It's
not the. One of the worst ones. It's. It's like mid.
>> Will (55:39):
Yeah, I'll. Yeah, I'll reserve judgment as far
as, like, where. Where it ranks after. After the last
three. But. But, so far.
>> Sarah (55:47):
Well, you already said that you liked it more than Daredevil.
Sorry.
>> Will (55:52):
Yeah, I do.
>> Sarah (55:53):
I like how you say that before you even seen the last three
episodes.
>> Will (55:57):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I. I mean. But
yeah, you know, I. I guess I just didn't have that reverence
of the. The Netflix show that a lot of people had.
>> Sarah (56:05):
So this is when
listeners, I expect you go back and. And,
re. Listen to how Will talked about the show
at the time.
>> Will (56:15):
Oh, yeah. Oh, like I said, I enjoyed it. It's.
It's not that I did not enjoy it. I'm just saying I like this
one better. That's all.
>> Sarah (56:24):
Oh, interesting so far.
I'm gonna wait to say anything until
I've seen the full season, so.
Because I'm also. I'm. I'm also not
a defender of Daredevil.
I. I started high on that show, but by the end of
it, I was. I was checked out. I. I still have so many
(56:45):
questions about the way that show ended, but whatever.
that seems to be a trend of mine this year with
these TV shows is like, I start strong, and then by
the end of it, I'm like, what happened?
What happened?
all right, well, that is it for us
tonight. Will, why don't tell our listeners where they can
(57:07):
find you.
>> Will (57:08):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at, Will and
Polk. W I L L M M P.
>> Sarah (57:13):
O L K. And you can find me there too, at
S.J. belmont, SJBLM O N T. Please follow
our crew on X, formerly known as Twitter, @cenanerd
on bluesky. Friend us on Facebook, follow us
on Instagram and threads at scene, underscore n
underscore nerd and visit our website
www.scenenerdpodcast.com. but most
importantly, rate, follow and comment on, Apple Podcasts,
(57:35):
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good night. Geek
out. You're welcome.
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