February 19, 2025 • 70 mins
Get ready for an awesome episode that’s packed with fun and cool insights. Join Sarah Belmont and Will Polk as they dive into the exciting return of "The Last of Us" on April 13th. They’ll break down how this beloved video game has transformed into a must-watch TV show. You won’t want to miss their take on it! (0:00)
In celebration of Black History Month, our hosts will take a trip down memory lane to the 90s, highlighting "MANTIS" and the amazing Carl Lumbly, who’s set to appear in the upcoming "Captain America: Brave New World." (5:55)
And of course, what’s a Scene N Nerd episode without some superhero talk? Will and Sarah will dig into "Captain America: Brave New World." While Will liked it he’s got some concerns, while Sarah’s weighing the value of your ticket. Together, they’ll explore the twists and character arcs that are sure to spark some lively debates! (10:58)
To wrap things up, our hosts will break down the latest episode of "Paradise," titled "You Asked for Miracles." Get ready for some intense drama and jaw-dropping moments with Xavier and Sam, along with their theories on the show’s lingering mysteries. It’s going to be a wild ride! (39:10)
We want to hear from you! Connect with us on X @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Don’t forget to check out our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you’re enjoying the show, please drop us a rating and a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you listen! Your support means everything to us!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:00):
Greetings nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host Sarah Belmont and
with me as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing
tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:06):
Doing very well, Sarah How are you doing this evening?
>> Sarah (00:09):
I'm doing good.
So we got confirmation that the last of us is
returning on April 14.
>> Will (00:17):
13Th.
>> Sarah (00:18):
13Th. 13th. Got it.
>> Will (00:21):
Yeah. That Sunday, which we, you know, we anticipate, that was our
bet as well that they would do it the week after
the White Lotus season three ends.
So so yeah, we, we got.
>> Sarah (00:32):
That news today and they're having seven
episodes.
>> Will (00:36):
I don't recall how many episodes. That sounds about
right though, I think. Let me just check the.
>> Sarah (00:42):
I, I was looking at IMDb earlier and
it looked like. Which is a weird
number. I don't, I
don't know how to feel about an odd number
of tele. Of episodes in a
season. It's just a
strange thing. I don't know how
to feel about it. But we always complain
(01:04):
when they stretch out things too long anyway
so they can tell the
story or whatever part of the
story because it's not going to tell the
full story of the second game.
But they're gonna, they
have it designed to tell the portion that they
(01:25):
want to tell with these seven episodes.
So.
>> Will (01:28):
Yeah. Yeah. And to that point I know the showrunner
did tell, it's detail a
deadline that they were possibly gonna
have four, seasons. Totally.
>> Sarah (01:38):
So interesting.
Okay.
>> Will (01:42):
Okay. Yeah. So, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:44):
So that makes m. Sense really
milking it are we?
>> Will (01:49):
Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I know like whenever the sec.
The first season ended they. Truck
Ridge and the other Craig,
I'm blanking on his last name right now. Did mention that they
were, you know, they were going to probably stretch out the part
two, for, for some time. So.
Yeah. But I guess season two is going to take place
(02:09):
five at least in, in within the universe five
years after season, one. So.
Yeah, yeah. And, and, and,
and to their credit they're not like dropping too many
spoilers or if they are, I'm just like doing a
good job of avoiding them on social media or whatever.
>> Sarah (02:27):
Yeah, well, I, I feel like there's a
code at this point, with this
show because it, it really, it's all, all of the
spoilers are out there.
>> Will (02:37):
Yeah, true, true.
>> Sarah (02:38):
It's not an original thing, so it's based off
of something that has already occurred.
And so I, but I
just feel like the way season
one was pulled off, there's kind of
like you're not, you're not gonna. If
you do know what happens, you don't
(02:58):
want to be chit chatting with somebody who doesn't
know because you want them to experience the
story. It's kind of like you don't
want to ruin that for anyone.
And I think people who, who do know what's
going to happen and enjoyed season one
are going into season two just like. Okay, so
(03:19):
I have my expectations. I'm
curious how they're going to.
The changes, you know, the deviations
and the surprises. Because they, they did.
They made a lot of changes that first
season. Not to a
detriment though, but to a
(03:40):
strength. they made the right
changes. and I
think why we got that,
especially in comparison to other
adapted works, whether it be from
a game or a book, is that you
have as ah, showrunners, you have
a. The creator of the game
(04:02):
and then you also have a
really well rounded
TV show
who's like, it's like the perfect
melding, who in both, in their own
ways care about the story and
And at the end of the day that's. That's what it comes down to.
(04:23):
So, yeah, looking forward to that
come April because April, we're.
We're as we. As we round out
February and head into March. March, we're
gonna. We're. It's not gonna be a dull March.
I mean we got Daredevil born again.
and. But. But come April, it's just
(04:43):
not. Luckily there's still a break. It's
really the end of April where it's just like,
okay, okay. And then, and then.
Okay, yeah, yeah, we're.
>> Will (04:53):
We're gonna, we're gonna do some scheduling blocks. Y.
Yeah. where. No, Last of us.
Definitely. We'll probably move back to Tuesday night. Just go ahead and let
you know now
when we record. So expect the podcast to drop late
Tuesday or Wednesday depending on your time zone. and
then also, yeah, and then
(05:15):
of course there's Andor. And. And of course we'll have
to factor in Daredevil. So. Yeah, we. We have a
lot to. We'll have a lot to talk about.
>> Sarah (05:24):
but before we get into what we're talking about
tonight, you, Why
don't we do the Black History Month?
>> Will (05:31):
Yeah. Yeah. So actually. And this one
actually ties into one of the topics that
we're going to be, well, discussed tonight. Well, maybe not
the topic, but one of the actors. The movie that we're covering
tonight, of course, which is Captain, America,
Brave, New World. And the show that
I'm going to talk about that
(05:52):
features actor Carl Lumbly is a
show that was it that premiered on the Fox
network in the early 90s. m. Mid. Early to mid
90s called Mantis. That
was a show that was. Was originally
a two hour pilot that was produced by Sam
Raimi. And The
character in the show that Carl Lumbley was
(06:14):
only. It was only on for one season and aired in
1994 and then got canceled on
Fox and then the final two episodes aired in
1997 on the Sci Fi Channel.
But The. The character the show was called
Mantis and it was an African American scientist who.
His name was Dr. Mels Hawkins. And this is actually a show I watched
real time whenever when it first aired and
(06:37):
really really enjoyed it. and he He was a
scientist who was injured
by bullet. he was paralyzed.
And. And so he
develops a. An exoskeleton that
Which was called the Mantis, which is a mechanically augmented
neurotransmitter interception
system. And it basically allowed him to you know
(06:59):
obviously walk and of course he became a crime fighter. And
the show in its early stages really like
the pilot really you know touched on a lot of just issues
as far as police brutality. Had a pretty you know a.
Many African American actors also were
part of the show in that. Well part of the.
At least what in the initial pilot movie.
(07:20):
But then when it went to series, a lot of those folks
were not kept on when it went to series.
Show was pretty grounded at first with a lot of
topical issues that Dr.
Hawkins would face as far as You know
obviously issues with. And social issues during
the time. But As the season
progressed the. The tone of the show shifted. And
(07:42):
I remember this too because I was like man, it went from being very like
and grounded and. And to
more true sci fi
fantasy time travel elements.
yeah. And of course it was. They did that retooling of course
because you know it was a ratings thing. And And then of course
like I said it only lasted for one season. But But yeah, but Carl
(08:03):
Lindley was The play Dr. Miles Hawkins.
And you know you may be able to find it on YouTube or
clips or something like that out there. But you know as far as
like on streaming services. I don't know if it's
like currently on any right now.
But But yeah, but if you do search it
out. I mean, it's overall, as I said, it was
(08:23):
a very. I do remember it. Very enjoyable show,
especially the first half of it. Second half was a little more wonky.
But, But yeah, is that. That was
something I wanted to highlight tonight,
especially given the role that, you know, Carl
Lindley plays now in the MCU as, Isaiah
Ratley.
>> Sarah (08:42):
Yeah.
so. So basically you're recommending something that. But
you don't know where it is, where people can find it.
>> Will (08:51):
Well, you could probably find it on, like, digital, like, you know, physical
media, right?
>> Sarah (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
>> Will (08:57):
Yeah. But not necessarily on digital media.
>> Sarah (08:59):
Yeah, I just. I found that to
be funny.
>> Will (09:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a lot of things that are out there like that.
That's why physical media. Don't give me on a soapbox about
pay physical media and why, you know, get your
DVD and, you know, Blu Rays when you can,
because otherwise you're at the whims of a streaming
service.
>> Sarah (09:18):
Yeah. Yeah, you really are. It's.
I. I still have, like, all
of my DVDs. Like, at one point, I have
the entire Friends series on dvd.
I mean, or I have not the
entire. I have the good early seasons
of Grey's Anatomy on dvd. I
(09:39):
have. I think I have a few Vampire Diaries. Yeah.
Yeah. When I went into
the CW world. but
I think. I think then I switched to.
I didn't go too far down there before
switching to more digital media and buying
seasons of tv.
but anyway.
>> Will (10:00):
Well, yeah, before we jump, you can't find it on. It is on
Apple tv.
>> Sarah (10:04):
Okay. Okay, that's.
Yeah, that's good to know.
All right, well. Well, yeah, but I mean,
let's. We don't have to jump too far because you already
brought him up and he does play a
critical part in Captain America 4
Brave New World. The. The IMDb
(10:26):
summary is Sam Wilson, the new Captain America,
finds himself in the middle of an international incident
and must discover the motive behind a nefarious
global plan. That's not really
what it's.
>> Will (10:41):
One version of.
>> Sarah (10:42):
It was kind of. Kind of.
>> Will (10:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (10:45):
I wonder what the Hulk. The Incredible
Hulk 2 summary will be.
Would be. All right, Will, do you
want to go like,
points or do you want to share your overall
thoughts? How do you want to. This.
>> Will (11:02):
Yeah, I mean, I guess we could just go overall faults
maybe. I like the. You know, we can just
go through how you. How you broke it down on your rundown because I
think, you know, overall thoughts
of the film is in. I
liked it. I mean, I really did. I. I thought it was. It. I. I shared
this, on my. Out of theater that I
(11:22):
posted on our channel, that I thought it
was an entertaining film. Thought it was a good film. I mean.
Yeah, I mean, there. There were definitely elements of it
that had its problems, but,
But overall, I mean, I don't think it's
as bad as some people out there are
saying it is, but, you know, is it a home
(11:42):
run? No, it's not either. But, you know, it's a. This is a
good, solid film. And that's sort of my overall
thoughts, about the film itself. And we can then. Yeah,
we can. I like to. Yeah, then we can just get
into some of the sort of bigger themes of the film.
>> Sarah (11:58):
Yeah. this isn't a bad movie. It's not a great
movie. I don't think it's worth going to the theater for.
>> Will (12:04):
Yes, I disagree. I think it's actually worth going to the theater
for.
>> Sarah (12:08):
No, because of the cherry blossom scene.
That CGI was awful.
That piece was just so bad.
>> Will (12:17):
Yeah. Now if you
want to say it's not worth going to the theater because basically the.
The finale was just, like, revealed, which is, like, one of my
biggest problems. One of the biggest problems with the film
was revealed pretty much like from
the trailer and then like, every single
promo through, that. That.
>> Sarah (12:37):
That's.
>> Will (12:38):
That's one of the biggest problems I have with it because I think it
just undercut what could have been a,
you know, better
reveal. One and. And two. Just, you
know, also just decimated the stakes. Because every
time, you know, I was just like, I. I guess
while I was enjoying the film, I'm like, okay, now
(13:00):
when is, you know, when is Hulk coming? Because they,
you know, is it going to be. Well, you know, I thought
maybe. Okay, that was like, you know, clearly the.
I thought maybe we'll get more than just one grand
finale of Hulk and. And the.
And the, third act there. But, you know, I was like, thinking maybe,
you know, maybe one of those other two moments when. When
(13:20):
Ross was, like, trying
to keep it together. You know, maybe we would get it. Get
a Hulk sighting then, but nope, we didn't.
>> Sarah (13:30):
Yeah. I. After maybe the
first time they tried to paint the
picture that he was about to burst, I was like,
oh, that's going to be the final act. Okay,
got it.
>> Will (13:42):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:43):
Interesting. Interesting
choice. All of this drama, especially
during the second act,
or I don't know what you would call it.
The, because it's not the ending act. The ending act
is called Versus Captain America. The,
the precluding ending act
is, the, the whole trying
(14:06):
to get fight, at
Celestial Island.
>> Will (14:10):
Yes.
>> Sarah (14:11):
So no, I, My,
my whole thing is
when I say I don't recommend, like,
I don't think you need to go to the theater. It's
like, I only went to the theater to watch this
movie because
we're covering it at the same
(14:32):
time, walking out of it. It's like, okay, would I have
actually gone out of my way, to go
see this? No. No, I wouldn't have. And
I, and I don't. And it's
just, it's just my feeling like I don't, I don't feel
like. And I watched this in imax, by the way.
Maybe that's also why I, it was the
(14:53):
earliest showing.
>> Will (14:54):
Okay.
>> Sarah (14:56):
So I was like, it might as well. so maybe that's
why the design of it. and
everyone's. All the criticism that's out there about the
CGI and some of the editing
choices, like, I saw very
clearly, too clearly.
so, so maybe, maybe that's also why
it's just like, I don't know. Now, that being
(15:19):
said, like, in my
opinion, arguably, and I don't
mean to offend Will or anything. I
think if you like, this is a kid
friendly movie, this is a perfect family movie.
Go, take your kids. Like young boys would love
this movie. So would girls. But
(15:39):
I, for, for an, for me,
my age range, I don't think this is
any, that anything
special to that point.
>> Will (15:49):
I mean, you have a point there. I mean, I think the,
one of the metrics for that's been tracking this
film has shown that younger audiences did like
this film more than older audiences. And I think, yeah,
so I mean that's, that's a fair thing to say because it
really was a very, you know, when you think
it was very cartoonish in a lot of ways. as far as with
(16:09):
the, the action sets, points.
and you know, and, and another thing
that like I said, it was entertaining, but it
was also very,
And maybe this is just where we are as just
viewers of this franchise at this
point. where it's just like we want more
(16:32):
because we are older as far as viewers
and more depth, more depth of story
because like they would like, you know, they were
trying to touch on like the political thriller themes. They were
trying to pick up on the, you know,
Sam's struggle. You
know, we did we saw the struggle with him in the story, you
(16:52):
know, becoming the, the black captain in America.
We saw that in Falcon and Winter Soldier. So, yeah,
so, you know, when we get to this film, he's clearly like,
accepted. I mean, the man's got like, you know, headquarters.
He's not like getting denied for bank loans anymore. So.
So, so, you know, so
all that kind of stuff, we,
(17:13):
people, he's quote unquote, made
it. but whenever they were
trying to dig into the stories
of whenever he and Isaiah were having the
philosophical discussion again that was brought up in Falcon
and Winter Soldier was doing much better in that one.
as far as the,
(17:33):
you know, whatever.
Now Sam is like, is he working for Ross? You know, a country
that. And in all the things that Ross represents
or, or
are you your own, are you on your own person? You
know, they just, they like, they dance around
it, but they don't like really do anything
(17:54):
with it. To me. And it was, you know, I was sitting
there and I was just like, give me a little bit more. Because I was just
like, I want more. Go into that more. And it's just like
this, this film just sort of. Whether it was that
or just the political thriller aspect that they were trying to get to,
it was just sort of, you know, dancing at the top of the
levels and didn't. And it wasn't surface deep.
>> Sarah (18:15):
Right, right. They had the kid friendly
gloves on.
>> Will (18:19):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (18:20):
and that's, that's like
a big problem with this film is
that when you say
entertained for me, I was like. I
don't know if I can truly say I was entertained.
Like I said, I don't think it's a bad mov.
I definitely don't know.
I can't.
(18:44):
I keep comparing it to Love and
Thunder just because,
>> Will (18:51):
Okay.
>> Sarah (18:54):
I mean, no matter what you think about
that movie, my experience as
an audience member was just
having a big smile on my face because for some
reason Chris Hemsworth's comedy
like, like just does it for me and
Tyco Waiki's comedy. So
(19:14):
the dramatic plot points
and the, the villain, horrible.
Like on the same level as, in my opinion, the
villain in this movie. But
it was the comedy where I was like, oh, yeah, it's not a
great movie, but I was entertained
this movie. Okay. I didn't laugh
(19:34):
one single time. Nobody in my audience
laughed a single time. And
I just, I was not. I can't
really full heartedly say I was entertained
because I kept getting distracted by things.
Mainly the fact That I wasn't laughing at jokes and
thinking in my head that, like,
(19:55):
I don't know why that didn't work for me, but
I see you marvel humor, and I don't know what you're
doing right now. but. But it was
just. It was mainly distracting
because I
felt like, Joaquin Torres was in a different
movie. And then I kept getting
distracted by
(20:17):
Ruth. because I'm a
short person. Okay? I'm. I'm five, six.
I'm short. Okay. I'm, average
for female or borderline. I don't know, but
I know I'm short. So the whole time I'm thinking, I'm
like, I need to figure out how short she is
because I need to make sure she's shorter than me.
(20:40):
You're distractingly small,
Harrison. Like, they didn't even try to hide
it. Like, she's five two. But
she, like you. I mean, I know
Scarlett Johansson is short, but
she doesn't appear that short on
screen. So, like, whether they
(21:00):
use, like, what they do with Tom Cruise apple
boxes. But. But she. They did not
try to hide it. And it was just very distracting to
me. On top of, like,
so you're just gonna throw out there that
she's like, red room
trained, former black widow, but also
the head of the security, which was just
(21:22):
an awkward scene of like, I just had an
assassination temp on me. I'm in a room
with all of these. All of my, cabinet
members. And then Captain America comes in. Everyone
out. He stays. She comes in. Nope,
she's staying too. It's like, what? What?
>> Will (21:38):
Yeah, man. Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:40):
I mean, weird and clunky.
>> Will (21:42):
Yeah, it was clunky. Well, also, I think, too, it's just
the. To me
that her edits
were actually, to me,
more distracting.
and of. Of like, where then
the Giancarlo Esposito
(22:03):
reshoots. Because to your point, you know,
they. Because of the nature of this character, one, they were
like, okay, we can't piss anybody. You know, it's just like, you
know, I think they were allowing real world
geopolitical things going on with Israel, Gaza,
and other stuff.
>> Sarah (22:19):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Will (22:20):
To like, you know, influence, like,
oh, okay, so we can't piss off. We can't piss off X
number of crowd by making Sam too blacky black. We can't
piss off Israel, you know, Israelis or
God or Palestinians because of the, you know, conflict
there. So, I mean, it was, you know, so those kind of
mish. Those kind of things that were, you know, done
(22:40):
to this Film, especially given how long it's like
going. Taking. it. You know, those are. Those.
That was for me, like even more
apparent, given no one's. No one
Cyrus backstory,
why they went there. I was like, oh, gosh, yeah,
that, that kind of stuff was just like, yeah, that.
(23:01):
Come on, y'all just, just grow up here. We're. We.
We're adults in the room. You don't. You know,
if you can handle this.
>> Sarah (23:08):
If you're gonna bring it to the table, then do it.
Don't. You can't. You can't do. Go halfway with this
stuff. Like, either she's that character or she's not.
>> Will (23:16):
Right?
>> Sarah (23:17):
And, and, and by.
That's where the whole commentary that this is a watered
down version of, whether it be
Captain America, Civil War, or even
Winter Soldier itself
because you're afraid to bring in the
(23:38):
original ideas,
you are therefore
reverting inadvertently back to
things we've Scene before. Yeah, and. And
I mean that like, like that was
also disappointing is to watch it and just be like,
okay, so, yeah, it's a new Captain
America. But we're going through the same
(24:00):
beats here, like
in the last two movies. And,
and they, they were more entertaining
because, not, not because they
didn't go there with some of the stuff, but just because
of the. It was, it felt more
fresh too at the time.
(24:21):
but. And I also think it's. I like
how you brought up the impact of
current political issues on
this movie because of
the, the wanting it to be more
grounded and,
and tap into that political filler
thriller. it almost worked
(24:43):
itself into a detriment because.
Because, I mean, you have that impact. And
at the same time, like,
we're talking Winter
Soldier and Civil War were like in stage
four, phase two, Marvel
2. And yeah, yeah, they were
(25:04):
sequels of like the
first Avenger movie. And we've already had the
Avengers. And so what I'm getting at,
you're going to present this during
Phase four or whatever phase we're in.
Right.
>> Will (25:19):
I don't even know what phase we're in.
>> Sarah (25:20):
M. Yeah, yeah. Like phase four and a half.
>> Will (25:23):
Five. I mean, six.
>> Sarah (25:24):
Yeah, yeah. And at this point, we've
gone to space so many times. Like, how many times have we
been to space? How many times? Like,
it's. It's interesting if you follow
following this franchise and really look at it,
to see how a movie
like this and a movie like Black
(25:45):
Widow have, that are
meant to be more grounded and meant. It's
like, yeah, but they're in, phases
where all of this, like, larger
than life spectacle stuff. And so
I feel like,
as a fan or a viewer of this
(26:06):
franchise, it's kind of
disorienting to go from
space to home and
also at a period where
Endgame has already, like, post
endgame, and you're just like,
okay, so when's the last time we've been on
Earth? And also when
(26:26):
is the last time where we,
like for this movie, what's going on with
America? Who are our
people and how are
the superhero people being treated?
I think a big misstep,
that we have yet to talk about is
(26:47):
by bringing in back Thunderbolt
Ross and doing the Red Hulk
storyline, they really made it
into the sequel to the
Incredible Hulk. Like, that whole
storyline. I've never watched the Incredible
Hulk. but I know
Liv Tyler's in it. I do know that
(27:08):
much. and
I know other characters who are in it who are different in
this movie. But I
think that the misstep is
doing that and not
really making it about
his involvement with the Sokovia
(27:28):
Accords and what that
means post endgame.
>> Will (27:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Because they did.
They dropped the Sokovia Accords in there, you know,
and, and, and so
whenever Sam, Whenever they had the whole, you're not
Steve Rogers, you know, blah, blah, blah. So. Yeah, so
that. That is a very good point.
Beyond just that, it's a sequel to the Incredible Hulk. It's. It's more
(27:54):
than that because the Sokovia Accords was a very,
you know, to our point about things being
grounded. I mean, that was the whole
theme and thrust of like the big philosophical is
this blow up between Tony and
Steve.
>> Sarah (28:09):
Yep, yep. And. And
it also impacted Sam. And that
was what. It was also mentioned in
this movie that. That was like they
locked us up during, like, he's the one responsible
for locking me up during that time period.
So. So I don't know why they didn't
(28:30):
focus so much more attention on that.
Like, and the fact
that, granted, he didn't know
throughout the movie that he was
becoming, a person with
powers, but he.
They could have done so much more with that. And it
(28:52):
was such a glaring missed
opportunity that on the one
hand you have that, and on the other hand, it's.
They invested so much time
into us really understanding
or knowing about knowing
Thunderbolt Ross and, And
like, why he's changed or
(29:13):
hasn't changed and all of this that I felt
like the whole time I'm like, yeah, okay, but
what's going on with Sam?
>> Will (29:21):
Yeah, because they could have used. They could easily
link the two with this. You know, especially
with Isaiah's, story,
all the, the
Ross's story and, And Sam
really, you know, having that philosophical debate
with the. With himself about
what's going on here beyond him. Like, should I take the
(29:44):
serum or not take the serum? I mean, that. That was like this. That was just
a surface level.
>> Sarah (29:49):
Yeah, well, I think even the
serum discussion is interesting
like, like going more into that
because. Because it is a.
Especially after the series Falcon and
Winter Soldier and to. To find
himself now taking on Captain
America, that role.
(30:11):
He doesn't have powers. He.
I, mean, I know. And my mind immediately goes like
Batman doesn't either.
>> Will (30:19):
Right, right. Exactly.
>> Sarah (30:20):
Yeah, right. Right. And we saw that. We saw the
Wakanda technology and all of that,
but really what
this movie should have done and
should have focused on is
really hammering it home as
to why not just Sam Wilson,
(30:40):
but anyone who doesn't have
powers, like, or
maybe m.
Hammering, home. Why specifically
Sam Wilson, someone who doesn't have
powers but who had a very unique
relationship with Steve Rogers is
(31:01):
the only one who can take on that
mantle. Like, they,
I still don't really
understand why. Why it.
Why. Why Sam is the right person. Like, they
haven't proven that to me. Like, I haven't Scene
anything unique. And I also.
(31:21):
And I think. And I know we've talked about this for.
I struggle especially in this
genre when, when it's like,
okay, so, so what's
the, what's the trade off here? Like, what
is Sam giving up
by assuming this, this position or this
(31:41):
role? Like, like, what's the
flaw in armor? And,
and, and maybe. And yes, you can say, well,
well, he's black and it's Captain America and there's
all that meaning. But because they don't go into.
Doesn't, it doesn't carry that substance.
So.
>> Will (32:00):
Yeah, and yeah, and yeah, it's
like it's.
They don't. They're some of the good. Less things that they
did well in Falcon and Winter Soldier to that point as
far as exploring to. To
him, you know, struggling with just
taking on this mantle of Captain America
(32:21):
and what it all means. And,
and then, you know, using this film as a vehicle
to, to really go even deeper into that.
It was definitely a missed opportun.
>> Sarah (32:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Because I,
So how many, how many years have gone by, like
the events of this movie? Three years?
Two years? So, so that.
That wasn't very clear to me while watching the
movie. And, and, you were saying
before, like, he's clearly doing good
things. He's. He's getting paid. And I'm like, okay, so
(32:54):
who's paying him? Is he still a governant
Contractor?
>> Will (32:58):
Right.
>> Sarah (32:59):
So then, then why is it a big deal that
he would report to, President Ross?
Like, doesn't he already. I'm confused.
>> Will (33:07):
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and then you make a big deal for him saying,
no, I don't work for Ross.
>> Sarah (33:12):
Yeah, but.
>> Will (33:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then, but then they
don't like. But then of course,
somehow, you know, but they don't like. They.
Again, they show but don't tell. Like,
like whenever Ross pulls him over and uses. Uses
him as a useful political prop to, like, take
that photo in the White House. Yeah, but,
(33:34):
yeah, there's so many. You know, there was this. I
guess that's, you know, again, it was
as far as overall, in the grand scheme of the
35 feature films of the MCU. Yeah, it's middle of the
pack for sure.
I, guess, you know, but it just took a.
These. The things that we're discussing are what would have
(33:55):
made this a decent film to a great
film. Right. And, and so,
you know, and when you judge it against the other, other,
you know, other outings in this, in this
franchise. So I do agree with you, though, to something you said
earlier, that there are a lot of those Marvel beats,
that they just got to like, if
(34:16):
they want this, if they want to set this franchise
to sustain itself. not
only for older
viewers like us, who've been on the ride for
all 35 films and 40 plus
stuff. When you factor into TV shows and also newer
viewers, they're, they're gonna have to change some
stuff up because, and
(34:39):
be, be willing to take chances again, because I
think that's what made, you know, meeting
the audience where they are now versus where we were,
you know, when In Game happened.
>> Sarah (34:50):
Yeah, yeah. Which has been a struggle
during this entire phase.
>> Will (34:55):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (34:56):
like there. Don't get me wrong, there's been some
highlights in this phase for sure,
and I. But
it's, it's recency bias.
Like you're always going to be compared to what's,
what's coming out right now. And
and it's just, it's, it's,
(35:16):
it's got to feel fresh and it
didn't, and it felt too
derivative. And I mean, my final point
is, like, these movies, I can
always tell how much Time they
invest in their bad guys
developing. Because
Thanos. Thanos is one
(35:38):
of the most talked about villains for a reason.
>> Will (35:41):
Yes, yes.
>> Sarah (35:42):
He took up so much time
in. And yeah, he was teased, but
really, Infinity War is his movie.
His movie. It's not about the
Avengers because we already know them. It's
about Thanos and us understanding. And that's
why. And then you have,
Killmonger is another example.
(36:05):
He's also talked about up there as one of the
great villains, not because he
overtakes the movie Black
Panther, but because they give enough
time where there's clear
motivation, there's a clear,
foil working between
(36:25):
him and Chala.
>> Will (36:30):
yeah.
>> Sarah (36:31):
Yeah, I was like. I'm. No, I'm gonna say this wrong because
I'm trying to visualize the spelling and like,
no, don't do that.
>> Will (36:38):
Yeah, I think Tchaka, the father.
>> Sarah (36:40):
Yeah, Yeah, I was like. And then.
Yeah, so. So again,
like. But there was balance. And you understood
both because it also,
when the villain, what they're going through
mirrors what your main
protagonist is going through.
Like, it just comes together
(37:03):
really well. And.
Yeah, I, I just. I. That's all.
I really. I don't want to spend a lot of time on the Leader,
which. Which I didn't even know he was leader
until I listened to some, discussions about.
>> Will (37:18):
I remember vaguely that he was. That the leader was
the villain in this. In the. In the movie.
But, yeah, I mean, it was definitely underdeveloped.
he was almost like. It reminded me a lot
of Psycho Pirate, from the Arrowverse
version of Crisis on Infinite Earth.
It's kind of there, but not doing much.
>> Sarah (37:39):
And what he does do, you're just like, really? That's
the best dialogue. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, well,
those are our thoughts about Captain America four
Brave New World. And now we will
head over to talk about Paradise.
Episode six, you asked for
(38:00):
Miracles. Xavier and Robinson
execute their plans as to Nacho strives to maintain
Paradise's current state.
I'm going to say I really like this episode.
>> Will (38:11):
Yes.
>> Sarah (38:14):
Not as much as the pilot. No.
>> Will (38:17):
But it was. I. You know,
I was like this. I will say this episode reminded
me of, like, why I really like this, this. This series
and the whole cat and mouse game between
Xavier and Sam there.
with, you know, with the events that
transpired in this episode, I. Yeah, that.
(38:37):
Yeah, that the pilot still was like chef's
kiss, but this was. This was. You know, this is probably
one. This is like, you know, one. A.
Maybe.
>> Sarah (38:49):
Maybe, maybe.
>> Will (38:51):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:53):
Yeah, like, between the
editing that they did with the flashbacks
and. And I really think out of all the episodes,
I will say I.
Out, other than the
flashbacks, we get specifically with him
and his wife, because we
finally introduced to Terry, finally
(39:15):
see her, and it's very
telling. Yep.
Got it. Understood how this dynamic works.
Very cool.
>> Will (39:25):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (39:26):
On board for that. it was.
It was interesting that
in my opinion, as much as I
love James Marsden as Cal
and Cal and
Xavier, because of what was
going on in the present day, I felt like
(39:47):
the flashbacks, I was like, we're in and we're out.
I understood what they were doing and why they were doing
that. And of course, there is
some lines specifically about the Die Hard,
which plays into present day events beautifully.
And then I wrote down, what
(40:07):
I thought was just a beautiful moment when he
notices the painting, when Cal points out the
portrait and he's like,
I thought it was so weird that somebody would
gift this to the White House. And I keep
looking at it, and then I realize
these women are reading and they have mosquito
(40:29):
nets over their faces. And it's like,
why? But they're fooling themselves
to think that they have any way
to prevent the,
cruelness of nature.
and I was just like, between that
and the whole cow metaphor in the present
day,
(40:53):
I can't say that they were throwaway,
but it's just that I
was so much more engaged
into what was going on in present day
throughout this that I was like, okay,
okay, let's. We'll dip back into this whole,
like, rundown, about the
escape plan for when shit hits the fan.
(41:16):
But, but. But let's get back to present day.
Let's get back to what's going on here.
and it was. It felt very. It was one of
the. A very well paced
episode. Very well paced.
I didn't feel like we lingered
anywhere too much. And I
(41:36):
think that's why. One of the reasons why, when I
stopped, when it ended, I was like, oh, oh, it's
ended. Okay. Wow. Well, that
happened. That
escalated.
>> Will (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that escalated
very, very much. So that like many of our.
Many viewers and listeners of our show and
others have speculated, which
is, Terry's probably alive out there
somewhere. But it wasn't the way that we thought, you
know, it was. It was the way that they
tease it, with Samantha
(42:10):
using it as a. As a bargaining chip. I was like,
okay. Because, you know, I
was like, all right, I. I can,
That. That begs more questions, especially some of the. Some
of the things that we saw, you know, as
in this episode. And also I started theory spiraling and I was like,
okay, now, you know, going back to the Versailles
(42:31):
Protocol and, And the discussions about
Terry and Cal and, you
know, whenever having this, you know, when Marston
was like. When Cal was like, telling
Xavier, look, you know, maybe she should stop going to
Atlanta so much.
>> Sarah (42:46):
Yeah.
>> Will (42:47):
During that discussion. so I think it was one. It
was, you know, clearly he knew something
was going down. and, you
know, has it been said what Terry. I can't
recall what she. Because I was trying to think like, okay,
Atlanta, you know, big federal president,
just a scientist. She's a scientist. So my immediate thought
(43:08):
was, okay, you know, CDC's
there. You know, I was thinking, you know, she's, you know, she's, you know,
she was talking about how her projects grow in and stuff.
So I was thinking, first I thought cdc, but then I was starting to think
more about, like, okay, if she, if, if, if
he was still. If he did say, you know, they
could pick her up from a, you know, pick the plane, could go pick her
(43:29):
up from Atlanta. Cal saying that,
you know, is she working with his dad
with this Paradise Project and there. Are they. Are they
building another, you know,
site there? Especially when we learned that two nuclear warheads
were like, city.
>> Sarah (43:47):
You know, I don't. I had that
idea crossed my mind, back in, like,
episode two or something very early
on in this. In the show, but
because of how he talked about, like, she
should stop going there. I don't think they were building
another site.
(44:08):
I did what I did wonder if
maybe her work has to do with what
eventually happens. But,
but from the way it was portrayed on
screen, it seemed more like Cal
was. No, no, she needs to
be like. Like, it's
imminent. The danger is imminent,
(44:30):
and I think we can go get
her, but I
don't.
>> Will (44:36):
Yeah. Yeah. And to that point, too, that's why,
you know, I, did think also as I, You know, so I was running down
the theory spiral.
>> Sarah (44:44):
Yeah.
>> Will (44:44):
And another. Other thing was like, okay. He was also
telling, you know, he was given Xavier a
notes, like, you know, I can't tell you that the end of the world is
about to happen.
>> Sarah (44:54):
Right.
>> Will (44:54):
But, you know, but Atlanta's,
you know, clearly whoever attacks the United
States, they're going to, you know, it is a prime target that
they're going to want to wipe out.
>> Sarah (45:05):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we found out, like, two bombs
were dropped specifically on
Atlanta. Ah. I.
It's going to Connect to the number on the
cigarette. Like. Like, that's the.
That's the. There's really a reason why he
specifically wrote that number on the cigarette. I think it
(45:25):
has to do with the flight number. And.
And I think Cal did uphold
his promise to get her on a plane,
but plane ended up someplace
else. Now, I will say
I forget what point in the episode,
but when it was brought up that Terry was
(45:46):
alive, I was like, oh, so. So
she was the girl they found the woods. So.
So she. She was alive.
Pace killed her. Or
I was like, what?
>> Will (45:59):
Yeah, that's. Yeah.
>> Sarah (46:01):
But then Samantha said, and I'll help you find
her. And like. Okay, so Samantha
knows the plane she eventually got
onto and willing to help.
Now. Now that's. That's the
whole. Like, I don't
know how much Samantha is going to be willing to help once
she realizes that Jane has.
(46:23):
Has, is going to hold Presley's
hostage. So. So the
leverage is going to shift as soon as
Samantha realizes that. But.
>> Will (46:34):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (46:35):
but I will. Can. Can we just point out.
Okay, can we. Can we stop
the discussion? Samantha did not kill
a cow.
>> Will (46:44):
No, she did not.
>> Sarah (46:45):
And I've been saying that.
>> Will (46:47):
You were right. You were right. I was. I was
wrong on that one. I. I, And I was. I think I'm
also wrong in the sense that I'm. I'm willing to admit what I'm wrong,
but, you know, was she behind his death?
No, I don't think that is that either. So I'm putting.
Yeah, we can put back. We can put that one to bed.
>> Sarah (47:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank God. Because I. I was tired.
Now can more people get on my train?
Okay. Because we see a sweatshirt with the flower
emblem, and I know that's connected to,
to Kane.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So can we.
Can we all hypothesize together? Tell me
(47:24):
that wasn't Terry.
>> Will (47:26):
That's my first. That was my first thought.
Whatever. Whenever Presley mentioned.
And I thought about the opening scene with. Where Terry
and Xavier were talking about that blue.
Her blue jacket. M. I was just like, oh.
And then there's also, you know, I,
I was. I did see someone, like, online. Someone pointed out the
(47:47):
fact that,
that Kane,
mentioned all the secrets
have flowers.
>> Sarah (47:56):
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
>> Will (47:58):
So I'm not. Yeah, I'm not gonna take credit for it. I
saw someone. Internet. I can't remember who said it, but they made the point of
that. And, you know, and whenever they. And even like, whenever
the. The pad. IPad, you
know, we Saw the flower, the jacket. We saw the flower
earlier in the season whenever they went to flashback who went
over Building Paradise. We saw people wearing the blue jackets
(48:19):
with the flower. Yeah, so. So it's
either, you know, so either Terry has something to do with it
they're killing or someone on the
project. But yeah.
>> Sarah (48:30):
Yeah. so. So. So we're gonna
rewind back to the
days when Will thought I was crazy. So my
two theories were that I've put out there,
like episode one and episode two, Terry killed
California.
My other theory, though, I. I think in
(48:51):
episode two, I said this. I said, I don't think we've
met the person who killed Cal.
>> Will (48:56):
Yeah, you did say that.
>> Sarah (48:58):
Which, based on the scene
and. And we were kind pretty much right
about how Presley obtained
the, It's still weird how
she. It's still weird
to me a little bit how they explain this.
So she shows up to play Wii,
(49:18):
but because she finds an iPad, she
leaves and takes the iPad,
thinking it'll have to do with her mother's
death. But why she
would think that about just a random iPad,
I don't know. Unless she's
been told. I don't know. Because
(49:39):
we know that Xavier is aware about the iPad.
But. Yeah,
Yeah, I. I felt. I think that's another reason
why I like this episode is I'm like, yep, not crazy.
Will was wrong. Finals
over way too many shows where he's right and
my theories are wrong.
>> Will (50:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, to my credit, I
did say that was just too obvious that Sammy. He did
too, that. That she would be the killer. But I,
was just like. But I. I was really thinking just because of
her. Her, motivations and especially as we. As
we, you know, trying to uphold this
society, as we saw it, even in this episode, as
(50:20):
I alluded to with the cat and mouse game between the two of them,
trying to hurt. Trying to protect the secret,
you know, that. That was sort of where I was sort of going with that.
But. Yeah, I mean, but, you know, she was, you know,
she definitely. You know, that was one of the things I did like
about this episode too. You know, obviously, clearly
the. The Die Hard references,
(50:41):
galore. But, But also
just, you know, with
Xavier, you know, being true to. You
know, as Terry pointed out, with the whole. You know, I
love how they used to see there in the. At the principal's
office. you know, how, you know that his
temperament and him
knowing Sinatra, but also Sinatra, I think
(51:02):
underestimated him a Little bit as well. Thinking back to,
like, to the palette.
>> Sarah (51:07):
She'S been estimating a lot of people.
Can I just point out one thing about that opening
scene, the student teacher
conference. what I
really liked about it is
not just that Terry with all of the
attitude and grace,
(51:28):
really calling things out and,
just being a character. But
typically when you see, like
when someone is clearly obsessed with their
job, it's often portrayed
in, TV and film
(51:48):
that because they're so intelligent and
obsessed with their work, they neglect their
children. I loved that
little line and moment walking
out where Terry knew more
about the project because she
knew that. Yeah, it was a
revenge. This was done on purpose.
(52:09):
Xavier had no idea.
>> Will (52:11):
Yep, yep.
>> Sarah (52:12):
I was just like,
that's great because you're taking.
We have this idea of who she is,
and then we're presented with a
character still not knowing.
But because of that one little line, I was
like, okay, okay. So. So
it's not. She may put. Arguably
(52:35):
put her marriage second, but she ain't putting her
kids second to her work. So not falling
into that. Like, she's not a mother who
abandoned them. like her
issue, like. And the fact that
they're not a perfect couple either because of the
strain. Because there's a clear
strain. And But. But that. Because
(52:57):
they've been together for so long, I'm sure that
has kind of just.
Just, scar.
>> Will (53:05):
Ah.
>> Sarah (53:05):
Tissue covered itself up. but,
yeah, I. I just wanted to point out that. Hold on.
>> Will (53:11):
That's a great point.
>> Sarah (53:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Will (53:14):
Especially when you juxtapose it against Sam, Samantha and
Sinatra as far as her, you know, especially when we see her sort of
backstory with her family and.
And as well. But. But really to your
point, really just, you know, really flipping the.
Also sort of flipping the switch too, that,
>> Sarah (53:32):
So wait, are you saying that Sinatra
was job obsessed?
>> Will (53:37):
Just a little.
>> Sarah (53:38):
Okay, see, I don't know.
Because.
>> Will (53:42):
Well, maybe. Maybe.
>> Sarah (53:43):
Maybe grief.
>> Will (53:44):
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, no, I think maybe. I
mean, maybe it's more
how. Yeah,
maybe it's, Yeah, let me. Let me rephrase that. I
think maybe it's more just
seeing how pe. How. To your point
about this, these character moments, as far as how people
react to situations even. Because all of
(54:07):
these people in paradise, for the most part,
are very successful people in
some form or fashion. you know, Cal was a little. You know, even though he
found his agency late in life, he, you know, he still. He
still was president even, though if it was manufactured by his
dad. But it did happen. but
it. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know,
(54:28):
those, those, those moments really
show how deep the
deep these characters are. you
know, and to your point,
how she, you know, how
Terry, you know, we've, you know, given that we've,
We've been told a lot about Terry but we haven't been shown a lot
about Terry. And I think when they did finally have the moment to show
(54:50):
her, they, they used it to its maximum
effect.
>> Sarah (54:54):
Yeah. Yeah, they, We didn't get too
much. We got just the right amount of Terry.
Even though we saw her in the hoodie too.
No, I don't know.
>> Will (55:07):
I don't know.
>> Sarah (55:07):
Yeah, because the one. There is a
flaw in this whole idea and that's just like.
Well, so, so she ran away.
She didn't at one point see Presley.
So. Yeah, that, That's a bit weird.
But I also want to point out, and we talked about
this last week, but I just want to bring it up again
because he was, he was
(55:29):
not as prominent in
this, in this episode.
But Jeremy, again, Jeremy
and Presley continue not to
behave and be written
as 10 year olds. Like
they're also. And also arguably in
this episode, they're, they're maybe
(55:51):
two written too maturely
because the fact that she admits that she was there and
shows him the ipod and he just accepts
everything like okay,
but. But I'm glad we don't have to spend like
five minutes on like what. Why did
you online. No, no, there was just acceptance.
(56:11):
And then she even showed him the
recordings that he then started to share with
everyone else at the end only for her then to
go and leave with Jane.
there are parts like those few beats.
There were a handful of
just parts of like we need to get this
(56:31):
character here conveniently and quickly.
We can't spend too much time on it.
>> Will (56:36):
Yeah, yeah, that. That would be that if that were to flaw
for this episode. For me that was. That was it those
conveniences. because that, you know,
one, her Jake
Presley, disobeyed her father.
Yeah. and then, and then. But you know,
just. But you know, but something's got it, you know.
But at the same time, if that doesn't
(56:58):
happen, then you know, Jeremy doesn't get the
iPad and, and they don't open it up and,
and really, you know,
open this. This whole story up even
more about what the truth of
paradise. you know, for. For the rest of the residents.
>> Sarah (57:15):
Right.
>> Will (57:16):
Yeah. So. So yeah, so yeah, I'll, you know, given
that the Whole. The rest of the episode was so that damn good. I. I'll.
I'll give him that one.
>> Sarah (57:23):
Yeah. The,
To just go back to the
flower sweatshirt for a quick moment.
I did. I was thinking about it last night,
and I was thinking, you know who we
haven't Scene in a hot, hot
minute? We haven't Scene
(57:43):
Cal's wife.
>> Will (57:45):
No, that's a good point.
>> Sarah (57:47):
And based on. Now we
don't see a face, but based on the
physique, there's a part of me
who's like, okay, was it Cow's wife?
>> Will (57:57):
It's a possibility.
>> Sarah (57:59):
really? Because. Because
we. We. We see her this one
time or like, we see her like
twice, maybe.
>> Will (58:09):
Yep.
>> Sarah (58:09):
And they have. It's. She's arguably one of the few
characters we haven't delved into at all.
>> Will (58:15):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:16):
And. And Jeremy's just roaming around town.
>> Will (58:19):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:20):
Yeah, that's.
>> Will (58:22):
That's. That's a good. That's a good flag as far as characters
that we. You know that. Because, you know, again, there is
motive, with the affair.
>> Sarah (58:30):
Yeah. Well, I. I
got the sense when she, like that. That's.
I get this sense that. That, like, she was
living in a separate house. They. They had already
in their minds divorced.
>> Will (58:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:46):
So. So I don't think it would have anything to do with
Robinson. It might.
I. It might have more to do
with the same similar reasons
to why Xavier is blowing
stuff up. Like. Like.
And. And because
(59:09):
I wonder how.
Like. And maybe that's why season two has already
been written because if it. If it was her, we're
gonna get the full backstory between her
and Cal and. And the falling
out, in the second season.
But. But it's definitely something.
(59:30):
An avenue that, The more I think
about it has not been explored. but was
definitely mentioned and should be a big part of
this. But clearly is it at the moment for
I. Which I think is purposeful.
>> Will (59:44):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. The one thing I do. Yeah. This series
has done a good job of is they don't drop things out there and
just leave them. Leave them hanging. It's all there for a
purpose. Either red hair. Yeah. Either. Either red herring
or for the overall. The bigger
mystery here.
>> Sarah (01:00:01):
Yeah. The. The last
character I want to bring up, which I don't really
want to. I just have to mention to it, is
that, Okay. Dr.
Tharabi Gabriella
continues to be my most
annoying character in this show.
Just ever since we had that conversation when
(01:00:24):
I called her a pickpie girl. That's all I see when she's on
screen in this episode. She just delved more
into that
and then also like, what. What was that
all about? So you're telling me Sam
not only is, spying on people,
but has the cameras in
(01:00:45):
people's bathrooms?
>> Will (01:00:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:00:48):
Great. Samantha. M. You're dirty, dirty, dirty
girl. Like, what are you doing peeping on people
while they're in shower?
>> Will (01:00:55):
Yeah. Yeah. She is the
ultimate control freak. I mean, yeah, I
mean. Yeah, I mean, yeah. The.
The funny thing with, you know, we talked about, you
know, Gabriella and whether or not she, you
know, her wild card factor.
and you know, and it's interesting as. As
things were just sort of falling apart, there
(01:01:18):
it was. Xavier's plan was just, you
know, M. With the, you
know, the three body problem, teasing her in the
sky messaging.
I I really was really struck by
their. Their motivations as far as why they want to keep
paradise,
going as far as, you know, you know, Sam for her
(01:01:40):
obvious reasons. But then the Robbie, you know, she, you know,
her whole thing was like this, this was her experiment.
And, and you know, whenever she was like
motivating Sam not to like, shut this guy
off to, you know, to reboot the system,
you know, so.
>> Sarah (01:01:55):
I don't think that's like. I. I think they have
the same reasons for wanting to keep paradise
going, but she was the voice
of reason and saying if you do
this, this is what will happen.
>> Will (01:02:09):
Yeah, I mean, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I think they both. They
both wanted to keep going, but I think. I think their
motivations are. Are
similar but different.
I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, well, Sam I think just wants to keep it
going just because she just doesn't want all the truth to come out
that you know, that
people are alive on the outside because that was the big lie
(01:02:32):
that they had to tell everyone to like, just to. To,
you know, to then go to the
Robbie's plan of like, we just gotta accept
this, and make a new. And make a new world. So
I think. So the motivations. I think the Robbie could, you know,
whether or not people are alive on the surface or not. I don't know if
that mama. It does play into her like, you know,
(01:02:52):
keeping this, you know, keeping this, you
know,
this program going forward. But
But, you know, yeah.
Ah, you know, so I think they still have
different motivations for, you know, for. For doing it because I mean, at the
end of the day, yeah, she is the voice to reason
(01:03:13):
But I think it was just for, you know, but her motivations were
different. And, you know, but also, she also sort of got to the. She also
figured out what Xavier was trying to tell her as far as the story about, you
know, pigs. Pigs. And, you know, being led to.
Via, What was it? The led. To the slaughter?
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:27):
To the slaughter.
>> Will (01:03:29):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:29):
Yeah. I. I don't know if I can get
100% sure or, on board with the
motivation thing, but maybe it's just because I'm
dealing with semantics. But,
Yeah, I. I
just. She's the worst.
Like, I love how will continues. You
(01:03:49):
continue to, like, want to make Sam
out to be this awful person. And
then. And I'm like, no, she's not that bad. And
then comes to doctor therapy.
I'm like, the worst.
>> Will (01:04:03):
Yeah, no, yeah, they're both. They're both bad for different
reasons. I mean, I
will say that, you know, they do. You know, I think
to. To your point, though, you know, they are. They do.
Even through all the bad things that
Sam does, I mean, they're still trying to retain her
humanity.
>> Sarah (01:04:22):
I understand why she's doing it. I
don't understand
Gabriella. And if I
did, I would not be
as. Arguably, I would not be as
annoyed. But it's when I'm like. I don't.
Like. Like you were saying before, her motivation.
Why? So she can keep. Like, she
(01:04:44):
doesn't know that people are alive on the
outside. So she's still, like.
She's still under this guise
that like this world. So
her motivations are not necessarily
to, like. She doesn't have a
devious motivation there.
>> Will (01:05:03):
And that's, Yeah, I mean, that's. That's where I was getting at. I mean,
I think that's where Sam and the Robbie's
motivations diverge. Because I think back to the
conversation
and whenever, you know, when Xavier
and. And the Robbie.
>> Sarah (01:05:18):
Social architect. Yep.
>> Will (01:05:20):
Social architect. Yeah. I mean, that. That's her life's work. I mean,
it's. It's a. It's an academic exercise for her
to see if we can make this thing work,
whereas Sam's
motivations are, you
know. You know. You know, different from
that. It's not about social architecture. It's just.
It's. It's to keep this, you know, this
(01:05:42):
dream that she had come up with, you know, as sort of
memorial and to her. To her. Her
son, in some regards, alive. Because when
you think about everything that's planned in that, you know, when
we think back to the Horse and all the other
architecture around the city. I mean, it's, you know, it's
reminders for her about her son.
>> Sarah (01:06:04):
Yeah.
>> Will (01:06:04):
Yeah, but I, You know, I mean, there's many ways you can
interpret it. I mean, I'm saying. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just. It's just. I think there's
many ways you can look at it.
>> Sarah (01:06:12):
Yeah.
>> Will (01:06:16):
But, But, yeah, it's like. Yeah, but I'm, trying to think there's any
other major points. I mean,
Kane was just
served as. Yeah, yeah, he just
served. He basically was the iPad opener. And then, you know,
and it's, you know, all the billionaires got off to their, you know, got
to their. To their bunkers and. And, you know,
it was also just really cool to sort of seeing, like, you
(01:06:39):
know, Xavier's. How many people have Xavier's back.
And as far as pulling the team together, because I was also worried
throughout the episode was one of those agents gonna, like, you know,
turn, turn on. Turn on
them, and. And. And spill to tip
off Jane as far as where. Where they are and what they were doing.
>> Sarah (01:06:56):
For some reason, I didn't have that worry. I
liked the reason. I like the explanation for
why Robinson didn't bring Jane, and I thought
that was clever.
>> Will (01:07:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:07:07):
Not convenient, but, like, okay, that makes
sense of why she wouldn't. I was mainly
worried Xavier was gonna call in
Jane. Like, that's
the only. Nobody else.
Yeah, he was clearly focused on.
On other. Other things. and
(01:07:27):
after Robinson said what she said, he was like, okay, that's
fine. but. But
yeah, I. Yeah, we'll. We'll
see. we got two more episodes
left. Is that right? Yeah, Seven.
>> Will (01:07:41):
Yeah. Seven. Eight. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:07:42):
All right. and on that note,
Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:07:48):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at Will and,
Polk W, I L, L, M, M P.
>> Sarah (01:07:53):
O L, K. And you can find me there, too, at S.J. belmont.
SJBL M O N T. Please follow our
crew on X, formerly known as Twitter,
@Cena Nerd on Blue Sky @Cena
Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on
Instagram and m threads at scene, underscore n
underscore nerd. And visit our website,
www.scenenerdpodcast. com. But most
(01:08:14):
importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek out.
You're welcome.
Greetings nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host Sarah Belmont and
with me as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing
tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:06):
Doing very well, Sarah How are you doing this evening?
>> Sarah (00:09):
I'm doing good.
So we got confirmation that the last of us is
returning on April 14.
>> Will (00:17):
13Th.
>> Sarah (00:18):
13Th. 13th. Got it.
>> Will (00:21):
Yeah. That Sunday, which we, you know, we anticipate, that was our
bet as well that they would do it the week after
the White Lotus season three ends.
So so yeah, we, we got.
>> Sarah (00:32):
That news today and they're having seven
episodes.
>> Will (00:36):
I don't recall how many episodes. That sounds about
right though, I think. Let me just check the.
>> Sarah (00:42):
I, I was looking at IMDb earlier and
it looked like. Which is a weird
number. I don't, I
don't know how to feel about an odd number
of tele. Of episodes in a
season. It's just a
strange thing. I don't know how
to feel about it. But we always complain
(01:04):
when they stretch out things too long anyway
so they can tell the
story or whatever part of the
story because it's not going to tell the
full story of the second game.
But they're gonna, they
have it designed to tell the portion that they
(01:25):
want to tell with these seven episodes.
So.
>> Will (01:28):
Yeah. Yeah. And to that point I know the showrunner
did tell, it's detail a
deadline that they were possibly gonna
have four, seasons. Totally.
>> Sarah (01:38):
So interesting.
Okay.
>> Will (01:42):
Okay. Yeah. So, yeah.
>> Sarah (01:44):
So that makes m. Sense really
milking it are we?
>> Will (01:49):
Oh yeah. Oh yeah, I know like whenever the sec.
The first season ended they. Truck
Ridge and the other Craig,
I'm blanking on his last name right now. Did mention that they
were, you know, they were going to probably stretch out the part
two, for, for some time. So.
Yeah. But I guess season two is going to take place
(02:09):
five at least in, in within the universe five
years after season, one. So.
Yeah, yeah. And, and, and,
and to their credit they're not like dropping too many
spoilers or if they are, I'm just like doing a
good job of avoiding them on social media or whatever.
>> Sarah (02:27):
Yeah, well, I, I feel like there's a
code at this point, with this
show because it, it really, it's all, all of the
spoilers are out there.
>> Will (02:37):
Yeah, true, true.
>> Sarah (02:38):
It's not an original thing, so it's based off
of something that has already occurred.
And so I, but I
just feel like the way season
one was pulled off, there's kind of
like you're not, you're not gonna. If
you do know what happens, you don't
(02:58):
want to be chit chatting with somebody who doesn't
know because you want them to experience the
story. It's kind of like you don't
want to ruin that for anyone.
And I think people who, who do know what's
going to happen and enjoyed season one
are going into season two just like. Okay, so
(03:19):
I have my expectations. I'm
curious how they're going to.
The changes, you know, the deviations
and the surprises. Because they, they did.
They made a lot of changes that first
season. Not to a
detriment though, but to a
(03:40):
strength. they made the right
changes. and I
think why we got that,
especially in comparison to other
adapted works, whether it be from
a game or a book, is that you
have as ah, showrunners, you have
a. The creator of the game
(04:02):
and then you also have a
really well rounded
TV show
who's like, it's like the perfect
melding, who in both, in their own
ways care about the story and
And at the end of the day that's. That's what it comes down to.
(04:23):
So, yeah, looking forward to that
come April because April, we're.
We're as we. As we round out
February and head into March. March, we're
gonna. We're. It's not gonna be a dull March.
I mean we got Daredevil born again.
and. But. But come April, it's just
(04:43):
not. Luckily there's still a break. It's
really the end of April where it's just like,
okay, okay. And then, and then.
Okay, yeah, yeah, we're.
>> Will (04:53):
We're gonna, we're gonna do some scheduling blocks. Y.
Yeah. where. No, Last of us.
Definitely. We'll probably move back to Tuesday night. Just go ahead and let
you know now
when we record. So expect the podcast to drop late
Tuesday or Wednesday depending on your time zone. and
then also, yeah, and then
(05:15):
of course there's Andor. And. And of course we'll have
to factor in Daredevil. So. Yeah, we. We have a
lot to. We'll have a lot to talk about.
>> Sarah (05:24):
but before we get into what we're talking about
tonight, you, Why
don't we do the Black History Month?
>> Will (05:31):
Yeah. Yeah. So actually. And this one
actually ties into one of the topics that
we're going to be, well, discussed tonight. Well, maybe not
the topic, but one of the actors. The movie that we're covering
tonight, of course, which is Captain, America,
Brave, New World. And the show that
I'm going to talk about that
(05:52):
features actor Carl Lumbly is a
show that was it that premiered on the Fox
network in the early 90s. m. Mid. Early to mid
90s called Mantis. That
was a show that was. Was originally
a two hour pilot that was produced by Sam
Raimi. And The
character in the show that Carl Lumbley was
(06:14):
only. It was only on for one season and aired in
1994 and then got canceled on
Fox and then the final two episodes aired in
1997 on the Sci Fi Channel.
But The. The character the show was called
Mantis and it was an African American scientist who.
His name was Dr. Mels Hawkins. And this is actually a show I watched
real time whenever when it first aired and
(06:37):
really really enjoyed it. and he He was a
scientist who was injured
by bullet. he was paralyzed.
And. And so he
develops a. An exoskeleton that
Which was called the Mantis, which is a mechanically augmented
neurotransmitter interception
system. And it basically allowed him to you know
(06:59):
obviously walk and of course he became a crime fighter. And
the show in its early stages really like
the pilot really you know touched on a lot of just issues
as far as police brutality. Had a pretty you know a.
Many African American actors also were
part of the show in that. Well part of the.
At least what in the initial pilot movie.
(07:20):
But then when it went to series, a lot of those folks
were not kept on when it went to series.
Show was pretty grounded at first with a lot of
topical issues that Dr.
Hawkins would face as far as You know
obviously issues with. And social issues during
the time. But As the season
progressed the. The tone of the show shifted. And
(07:42):
I remember this too because I was like man, it went from being very like
and grounded and. And to
more true sci fi
fantasy time travel elements.
yeah. And of course it was. They did that retooling of course
because you know it was a ratings thing. And And then of course
like I said it only lasted for one season. But But yeah, but Carl
(08:03):
Lindley was The play Dr. Miles Hawkins.
And you know you may be able to find it on YouTube or
clips or something like that out there. But you know as far as
like on streaming services. I don't know if it's
like currently on any right now.
But But yeah, but if you do search it
out. I mean, it's overall, as I said, it was
(08:23):
a very. I do remember it. Very enjoyable show,
especially the first half of it. Second half was a little more wonky.
But, But yeah, is that. That was
something I wanted to highlight tonight,
especially given the role that, you know, Carl
Lindley plays now in the MCU as, Isaiah
Ratley.
>> Sarah (08:42):
Yeah.
so. So basically you're recommending something that. But
you don't know where it is, where people can find it.
>> Will (08:51):
Well, you could probably find it on, like, digital, like, you know, physical
media, right?
>> Sarah (08:56):
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
>> Will (08:57):
Yeah. But not necessarily on digital media.
>> Sarah (08:59):
Yeah, I just. I found that to
be funny.
>> Will (09:03):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, there's a lot of things that are out there like that.
That's why physical media. Don't give me on a soapbox about
pay physical media and why, you know, get your
DVD and, you know, Blu Rays when you can,
because otherwise you're at the whims of a streaming
service.
>> Sarah (09:18):
Yeah. Yeah, you really are. It's.
I. I still have, like, all
of my DVDs. Like, at one point, I have
the entire Friends series on dvd.
I mean, or I have not the
entire. I have the good early seasons
of Grey's Anatomy on dvd. I
(09:39):
have. I think I have a few Vampire Diaries. Yeah.
Yeah. When I went into
the CW world. but
I think. I think then I switched to.
I didn't go too far down there before
switching to more digital media and buying
seasons of tv.
but anyway.
>> Will (10:00):
Well, yeah, before we jump, you can't find it on. It is on
Apple tv.
>> Sarah (10:04):
Okay. Okay, that's.
Yeah, that's good to know.
All right, well. Well, yeah, but I mean,
let's. We don't have to jump too far because you already
brought him up and he does play a
critical part in Captain America 4
Brave New World. The. The IMDb
(10:26):
summary is Sam Wilson, the new Captain America,
finds himself in the middle of an international incident
and must discover the motive behind a nefarious
global plan. That's not really
what it's.
>> Will (10:41):
One version of.
>> Sarah (10:42):
It was kind of. Kind of.
>> Will (10:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (10:45):
I wonder what the Hulk. The Incredible
Hulk 2 summary will be.
Would be. All right, Will, do you
want to go like,
points or do you want to share your overall
thoughts? How do you want to. This.
>> Will (11:02):
Yeah, I mean, I guess we could just go overall faults
maybe. I like the. You know, we can just
go through how you. How you broke it down on your rundown because I
think, you know, overall thoughts
of the film is in. I
liked it. I mean, I really did. I. I thought it was. It. I. I shared
this, on my. Out of theater that I
(11:22):
posted on our channel, that I thought it
was an entertaining film. Thought it was a good film. I mean.
Yeah, I mean, there. There were definitely elements of it
that had its problems, but,
But overall, I mean, I don't think it's
as bad as some people out there are
saying it is, but, you know, is it a home
(11:42):
run? No, it's not either. But, you know, it's a. This is a
good, solid film. And that's sort of my overall
thoughts, about the film itself. And we can then. Yeah,
we can. I like to. Yeah, then we can just get
into some of the sort of bigger themes of the film.
>> Sarah (11:58):
Yeah. this isn't a bad movie. It's not a great
movie. I don't think it's worth going to the theater for.
>> Will (12:04):
Yes, I disagree. I think it's actually worth going to the theater
for.
>> Sarah (12:08):
No, because of the cherry blossom scene.
That CGI was awful.
That piece was just so bad.
>> Will (12:17):
Yeah. Now if you
want to say it's not worth going to the theater because basically the.
The finale was just, like, revealed, which is, like, one of my
biggest problems. One of the biggest problems with the film
was revealed pretty much like from
the trailer and then like, every single
promo through, that. That.
>> Sarah (12:37):
That's.
>> Will (12:38):
That's one of the biggest problems I have with it because I think it
just undercut what could have been a,
you know, better
reveal. One and. And two. Just, you
know, also just decimated the stakes. Because every
time, you know, I was just like, I. I guess
while I was enjoying the film, I'm like, okay, now
(13:00):
when is, you know, when is Hulk coming? Because they,
you know, is it going to be. Well, you know, I thought
maybe. Okay, that was like, you know, clearly the.
I thought maybe we'll get more than just one grand
finale of Hulk and. And the.
And the, third act there. But, you know, I was like, thinking maybe,
you know, maybe one of those other two moments when. When
(13:20):
Ross was, like, trying
to keep it together. You know, maybe we would get it. Get
a Hulk sighting then, but nope, we didn't.
>> Sarah (13:30):
Yeah. I. After maybe the
first time they tried to paint the
picture that he was about to burst, I was like,
oh, that's going to be the final act. Okay,
got it.
>> Will (13:42):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:43):
Interesting. Interesting
choice. All of this drama, especially
during the second act,
or I don't know what you would call it.
The, because it's not the ending act. The ending act
is called Versus Captain America. The,
the precluding ending act
is, the, the whole trying
(14:06):
to get fight, at
Celestial Island.
>> Will (14:10):
Yes.
>> Sarah (14:11):
So no, I, My,
my whole thing is
when I say I don't recommend, like,
I don't think you need to go to the theater. It's
like, I only went to the theater to watch this
movie because
we're covering it at the same
(14:32):
time, walking out of it. It's like, okay, would I have
actually gone out of my way, to go
see this? No. No, I wouldn't have. And
I, and I don't. And it's
just, it's just my feeling like I don't, I don't feel
like. And I watched this in imax, by the way.
Maybe that's also why I, it was the
(14:53):
earliest showing.
>> Will (14:54):
Okay.
>> Sarah (14:56):
So I was like, it might as well. so maybe that's
why the design of it. and
everyone's. All the criticism that's out there about the
CGI and some of the editing
choices, like, I saw very
clearly, too clearly.
so, so maybe, maybe that's also why
it's just like, I don't know. Now, that being
(15:19):
said, like, in my
opinion, arguably, and I don't
mean to offend Will or anything. I
think if you like, this is a kid
friendly movie, this is a perfect family movie.
Go, take your kids. Like young boys would love
this movie. So would girls. But
(15:39):
I, for, for an, for me,
my age range, I don't think this is
any, that anything
special to that point.
>> Will (15:49):
I mean, you have a point there. I mean, I think the,
one of the metrics for that's been tracking this
film has shown that younger audiences did like
this film more than older audiences. And I think, yeah,
so I mean that's, that's a fair thing to say because it
really was a very, you know, when you think
it was very cartoonish in a lot of ways. as far as with
(16:09):
the, the action sets, points.
and you know, and, and another thing
that like I said, it was entertaining, but it
was also very,
And maybe this is just where we are as just
viewers of this franchise at this
point. where it's just like we want more
(16:32):
because we are older as far as viewers
and more depth, more depth of story
because like they would like, you know, they were
trying to touch on like the political thriller themes. They were
trying to pick up on the, you know,
Sam's struggle. You
know, we did we saw the struggle with him in the story, you
(16:52):
know, becoming the, the black captain in America.
We saw that in Falcon and Winter Soldier. So, yeah,
so, you know, when we get to this film, he's clearly like,
accepted. I mean, the man's got like, you know, headquarters.
He's not like getting denied for bank loans anymore. So.
So, so, you know, so
all that kind of stuff, we,
(17:13):
people, he's quote unquote, made
it. but whenever they were
trying to dig into the stories
of whenever he and Isaiah were having the
philosophical discussion again that was brought up in Falcon
and Winter Soldier was doing much better in that one.
as far as the,
(17:33):
you know, whatever.
Now Sam is like, is he working for Ross? You know, a country
that. And in all the things that Ross represents
or, or
are you your own, are you on your own person? You
know, they just, they like, they dance around
it, but they don't like really do anything
(17:54):
with it. To me. And it was, you know, I was sitting
there and I was just like, give me a little bit more. Because I was just
like, I want more. Go into that more. And it's just like
this, this film just sort of. Whether it was that
or just the political thriller aspect that they were trying to get to,
it was just sort of, you know, dancing at the top of the
levels and didn't. And it wasn't surface deep.
>> Sarah (18:15):
Right, right. They had the kid friendly
gloves on.
>> Will (18:19):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (18:20):
and that's, that's like
a big problem with this film is
that when you say
entertained for me, I was like. I
don't know if I can truly say I was entertained.
Like I said, I don't think it's a bad mov.
I definitely don't know.
I can't.
(18:44):
I keep comparing it to Love and
Thunder just because,
>> Will (18:51):
Okay.
>> Sarah (18:54):
I mean, no matter what you think about
that movie, my experience as
an audience member was just
having a big smile on my face because for some
reason Chris Hemsworth's comedy
like, like just does it for me and
Tyco Waiki's comedy. So
(19:14):
the dramatic plot points
and the, the villain, horrible.
Like on the same level as, in my opinion, the
villain in this movie. But
it was the comedy where I was like, oh, yeah, it's not a
great movie, but I was entertained
this movie. Okay. I didn't laugh
(19:34):
one single time. Nobody in my audience
laughed a single time. And
I just, I was not. I can't
really full heartedly say I was entertained
because I kept getting distracted by things.
Mainly the fact That I wasn't laughing at jokes and
thinking in my head that, like,
(19:55):
I don't know why that didn't work for me, but
I see you marvel humor, and I don't know what you're
doing right now. but. But it was
just. It was mainly distracting
because I
felt like, Joaquin Torres was in a different
movie. And then I kept getting
distracted by
(20:17):
Ruth. because I'm a
short person. Okay? I'm. I'm five, six.
I'm short. Okay. I'm, average
for female or borderline. I don't know, but
I know I'm short. So the whole time I'm thinking, I'm
like, I need to figure out how short she is
because I need to make sure she's shorter than me.
(20:40):
You're distractingly small,
Harrison. Like, they didn't even try to hide
it. Like, she's five two. But
she, like you. I mean, I know
Scarlett Johansson is short, but
she doesn't appear that short on
screen. So, like, whether they
(21:00):
use, like, what they do with Tom Cruise apple
boxes. But. But she. They did not
try to hide it. And it was just very distracting to
me. On top of, like,
so you're just gonna throw out there that
she's like, red room
trained, former black widow, but also
the head of the security, which was just
(21:22):
an awkward scene of like, I just had an
assassination temp on me. I'm in a room
with all of these. All of my, cabinet
members. And then Captain America comes in. Everyone
out. He stays. She comes in. Nope,
she's staying too. It's like, what? What?
>> Will (21:38):
Yeah, man. Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:40):
I mean, weird and clunky.
>> Will (21:42):
Yeah, it was clunky. Well, also, I think, too, it's just
the. To me
that her edits
were actually, to me,
more distracting.
and of. Of like, where then
the Giancarlo Esposito
(22:03):
reshoots. Because to your point, you know,
they. Because of the nature of this character, one, they were
like, okay, we can't piss anybody. You know, it's just like, you
know, I think they were allowing real world
geopolitical things going on with Israel, Gaza,
and other stuff.
>> Sarah (22:19):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Will (22:20):
To like, you know, influence, like,
oh, okay, so we can't piss off. We can't piss off X
number of crowd by making Sam too blacky black. We can't
piss off Israel, you know, Israelis or
God or Palestinians because of the, you know, conflict
there. So, I mean, it was, you know, so those kind of
mish. Those kind of things that were, you know, done
(22:40):
to this Film, especially given how long it's like
going. Taking. it. You know, those are. Those.
That was for me, like even more
apparent, given no one's. No one
Cyrus backstory,
why they went there. I was like, oh, gosh, yeah,
that, that kind of stuff was just like, yeah, that.
(23:01):
Come on, y'all just, just grow up here. We're. We.
We're adults in the room. You don't. You know,
if you can handle this.
>> Sarah (23:08):
If you're gonna bring it to the table, then do it.
Don't. You can't. You can't do. Go halfway with this
stuff. Like, either she's that character or she's not.
>> Will (23:16):
Right?
>> Sarah (23:17):
And, and, and by.
That's where the whole commentary that this is a watered
down version of, whether it be
Captain America, Civil War, or even
Winter Soldier itself
because you're afraid to bring in the
(23:38):
original ideas,
you are therefore
reverting inadvertently back to
things we've Scene before. Yeah, and. And
I mean that like, like that was
also disappointing is to watch it and just be like,
okay, so, yeah, it's a new Captain
America. But we're going through the same
(24:00):
beats here, like
in the last two movies. And,
and they, they were more entertaining
because, not, not because they
didn't go there with some of the stuff, but just because
of the. It was, it felt more
fresh too at the time.
(24:21):
but. And I also think it's. I like
how you brought up the impact of
current political issues on
this movie because of
the, the wanting it to be more
grounded and,
and tap into that political filler
thriller. it almost worked
(24:43):
itself into a detriment because.
Because, I mean, you have that impact. And
at the same time, like,
we're talking Winter
Soldier and Civil War were like in stage
four, phase two, Marvel
2. And yeah, yeah, they were
(25:04):
sequels of like the
first Avenger movie. And we've already had the
Avengers. And so what I'm getting at,
you're going to present this during
Phase four or whatever phase we're in.
Right.
>> Will (25:19):
I don't even know what phase we're in.
>> Sarah (25:20):
M. Yeah, yeah. Like phase four and a half.
>> Will (25:23):
Five. I mean, six.
>> Sarah (25:24):
Yeah, yeah. And at this point, we've
gone to space so many times. Like, how many times have we
been to space? How many times? Like,
it's. It's interesting if you follow
following this franchise and really look at it,
to see how a movie
like this and a movie like Black
(25:45):
Widow have, that are
meant to be more grounded and meant. It's
like, yeah, but they're in, phases
where all of this, like, larger
than life spectacle stuff. And so
I feel like,
as a fan or a viewer of this
(26:06):
franchise, it's kind of
disorienting to go from
space to home and
also at a period where
Endgame has already, like, post
endgame, and you're just like,
okay, so when's the last time we've been on
Earth? And also when
(26:26):
is the last time where we,
like for this movie, what's going on with
America? Who are our
people and how are
the superhero people being treated?
I think a big misstep,
that we have yet to talk about is
(26:47):
by bringing in back Thunderbolt
Ross and doing the Red Hulk
storyline, they really made it
into the sequel to the
Incredible Hulk. Like, that whole
storyline. I've never watched the Incredible
Hulk. but I know
Liv Tyler's in it. I do know that
(27:08):
much. and
I know other characters who are in it who are different in
this movie. But I
think that the misstep is
doing that and not
really making it about
his involvement with the Sokovia
(27:28):
Accords and what that
means post endgame.
>> Will (27:33):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Because they did.
They dropped the Sokovia Accords in there, you know,
and, and, and so
whenever Sam, Whenever they had the whole, you're not
Steve Rogers, you know, blah, blah, blah. So. Yeah, so
that. That is a very good point.
Beyond just that, it's a sequel to the Incredible Hulk. It's. It's more
(27:54):
than that because the Sokovia Accords was a very,
you know, to our point about things being
grounded. I mean, that was the whole
theme and thrust of like the big philosophical is
this blow up between Tony and
Steve.
>> Sarah (28:09):
Yep, yep. And. And
it also impacted Sam. And that
was what. It was also mentioned in
this movie that. That was like they
locked us up during, like, he's the one responsible
for locking me up during that time period.
So. So I don't know why they didn't
(28:30):
focus so much more attention on that.
Like, and the fact
that, granted, he didn't know
throughout the movie that he was
becoming, a person with
powers, but he.
They could have done so much more with that. And it
(28:52):
was such a glaring missed
opportunity that on the one
hand you have that, and on the other hand, it's.
They invested so much time
into us really understanding
or knowing about knowing
Thunderbolt Ross and, And
like, why he's changed or
(29:13):
hasn't changed and all of this that I felt
like the whole time I'm like, yeah, okay, but
what's going on with Sam?
>> Will (29:21):
Yeah, because they could have used. They could easily
link the two with this. You know, especially
with Isaiah's, story,
all the, the
Ross's story and, And Sam
really, you know, having that philosophical debate
with the. With himself about
what's going on here beyond him. Like, should I take the
(29:44):
serum or not take the serum? I mean, that. That was like this. That was just
a surface level.
>> Sarah (29:49):
Yeah, well, I think even the
serum discussion is interesting
like, like going more into that
because. Because it is a.
Especially after the series Falcon and
Winter Soldier and to. To find
himself now taking on Captain
America, that role.
(30:11):
He doesn't have powers. He.
I, mean, I know. And my mind immediately goes like
Batman doesn't either.
>> Will (30:19):
Right, right. Exactly.
>> Sarah (30:20):
Yeah, right. Right. And we saw that. We saw the
Wakanda technology and all of that,
but really what
this movie should have done and
should have focused on is
really hammering it home as
to why not just Sam Wilson,
(30:40):
but anyone who doesn't have
powers, like, or
maybe m.
Hammering, home. Why specifically
Sam Wilson, someone who doesn't have
powers but who had a very unique
relationship with Steve Rogers is
(31:01):
the only one who can take on that
mantle. Like, they,
I still don't really
understand why. Why it.
Why. Why Sam is the right person. Like, they
haven't proven that to me. Like, I haven't Scene
anything unique. And I also.
(31:21):
And I think. And I know we've talked about this for.
I struggle especially in this
genre when, when it's like,
okay, so, so what's
the, what's the trade off here? Like, what
is Sam giving up
by assuming this, this position or this
(31:41):
role? Like, like, what's the
flaw in armor? And,
and, and maybe. And yes, you can say, well,
well, he's black and it's Captain America and there's
all that meaning. But because they don't go into.
Doesn't, it doesn't carry that substance.
So.
>> Will (32:00):
Yeah, and yeah, and yeah, it's
like it's.
They don't. They're some of the good. Less things that they
did well in Falcon and Winter Soldier to that point as
far as exploring to. To
him, you know, struggling with just
taking on this mantle of Captain America
(32:21):
and what it all means. And,
and then, you know, using this film as a vehicle
to, to really go even deeper into that.
It was definitely a missed opportun.
>> Sarah (32:32):
Yeah. Yeah. Because I,
So how many, how many years have gone by, like
the events of this movie? Three years?
Two years? So, so that.
That wasn't very clear to me while watching the
movie. And, and, you were saying
before, like, he's clearly doing good
things. He's. He's getting paid. And I'm like, okay, so
(32:54):
who's paying him? Is he still a governant
Contractor?
>> Will (32:58):
Right.
>> Sarah (32:59):
So then, then why is it a big deal that
he would report to, President Ross?
Like, doesn't he already. I'm confused.
>> Will (33:07):
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, and then you make a big deal for him saying,
no, I don't work for Ross.
>> Sarah (33:12):
Yeah, but.
>> Will (33:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but then, but then they
don't like. But then of course,
somehow, you know, but they don't like. They.
Again, they show but don't tell. Like,
like whenever Ross pulls him over and uses. Uses
him as a useful political prop to, like, take
that photo in the White House. Yeah, but,
(33:34):
yeah, there's so many. You know, there was this. I
guess that's, you know, again, it was
as far as overall, in the grand scheme of the
35 feature films of the MCU. Yeah, it's middle of the
pack for sure.
I, guess, you know, but it just took a.
These. The things that we're discussing are what would have
(33:55):
made this a decent film to a great
film. Right. And, and so,
you know, and when you judge it against the other, other,
you know, other outings in this, in this
franchise. So I do agree with you, though, to something you said
earlier, that there are a lot of those Marvel beats,
that they just got to like, if
(34:16):
they want this, if they want to set this franchise
to sustain itself. not
only for older
viewers like us, who've been on the ride for
all 35 films and 40 plus
stuff. When you factor into TV shows and also newer
viewers, they're, they're gonna have to change some
stuff up because, and
(34:39):
be, be willing to take chances again, because I
think that's what made, you know, meeting
the audience where they are now versus where we were,
you know, when In Game happened.
>> Sarah (34:50):
Yeah, yeah. Which has been a struggle
during this entire phase.
>> Will (34:55):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (34:56):
like there. Don't get me wrong, there's been some
highlights in this phase for sure,
and I. But
it's, it's recency bias.
Like you're always going to be compared to what's,
what's coming out right now. And
and it's just, it's, it's,
(35:16):
it's got to feel fresh and it
didn't, and it felt too
derivative. And I mean, my final point
is, like, these movies, I can
always tell how much Time they
invest in their bad guys
developing. Because
Thanos. Thanos is one
(35:38):
of the most talked about villains for a reason.
>> Will (35:41):
Yes, yes.
>> Sarah (35:42):
He took up so much time
in. And yeah, he was teased, but
really, Infinity War is his movie.
His movie. It's not about the
Avengers because we already know them. It's
about Thanos and us understanding. And that's
why. And then you have,
Killmonger is another example.
(36:05):
He's also talked about up there as one of the
great villains, not because he
overtakes the movie Black
Panther, but because they give enough
time where there's clear
motivation, there's a clear,
foil working between
(36:25):
him and Chala.
>> Will (36:30):
yeah.
>> Sarah (36:31):
Yeah, I was like. I'm. No, I'm gonna say this wrong because
I'm trying to visualize the spelling and like,
no, don't do that.
>> Will (36:38):
Yeah, I think Tchaka, the father.
>> Sarah (36:40):
Yeah, Yeah, I was like. And then.
Yeah, so. So again,
like. But there was balance. And you understood
both because it also,
when the villain, what they're going through
mirrors what your main
protagonist is going through.
Like, it just comes together
(37:03):
really well. And.
Yeah, I, I just. I. That's all.
I really. I don't want to spend a lot of time on the Leader,
which. Which I didn't even know he was leader
until I listened to some, discussions about.
>> Will (37:18):
I remember vaguely that he was. That the leader was
the villain in this. In the. In the movie.
But, yeah, I mean, it was definitely underdeveloped.
he was almost like. It reminded me a lot
of Psycho Pirate, from the Arrowverse
version of Crisis on Infinite Earth.
It's kind of there, but not doing much.
>> Sarah (37:39):
And what he does do, you're just like, really? That's
the best dialogue. Okay.
Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, well,
those are our thoughts about Captain America four
Brave New World. And now we will
head over to talk about Paradise.
Episode six, you asked for
(38:00):
Miracles. Xavier and Robinson
execute their plans as to Nacho strives to maintain
Paradise's current state.
I'm going to say I really like this episode.
>> Will (38:11):
Yes.
>> Sarah (38:14):
Not as much as the pilot. No.
>> Will (38:17):
But it was. I. You know,
I was like this. I will say this episode reminded
me of, like, why I really like this, this. This series
and the whole cat and mouse game between
Xavier and Sam there.
with, you know, with the events that
transpired in this episode, I. Yeah, that.
(38:37):
Yeah, that the pilot still was like chef's
kiss, but this was. This was. You know, this is probably
one. This is like, you know, one. A.
Maybe.
>> Sarah (38:49):
Maybe, maybe.
>> Will (38:51):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:53):
Yeah, like, between the
editing that they did with the flashbacks
and. And I really think out of all the episodes,
I will say I.
Out, other than the
flashbacks, we get specifically with him
and his wife, because we
finally introduced to Terry, finally
(39:15):
see her, and it's very
telling. Yep.
Got it. Understood how this dynamic works.
Very cool.
>> Will (39:25):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (39:26):
On board for that. it was.
It was interesting that
in my opinion, as much as I
love James Marsden as Cal
and Cal and
Xavier, because of what was
going on in the present day, I felt like
(39:47):
the flashbacks, I was like, we're in and we're out.
I understood what they were doing and why they were doing
that. And of course, there is
some lines specifically about the Die Hard,
which plays into present day events beautifully.
And then I wrote down, what
(40:07):
I thought was just a beautiful moment when he
notices the painting, when Cal points out the
portrait and he's like,
I thought it was so weird that somebody would
gift this to the White House. And I keep
looking at it, and then I realize
these women are reading and they have mosquito
(40:29):
nets over their faces. And it's like,
why? But they're fooling themselves
to think that they have any way
to prevent the,
cruelness of nature.
and I was just like, between that
and the whole cow metaphor in the present
day,
(40:53):
I can't say that they were throwaway,
but it's just that I
was so much more engaged
into what was going on in present day
throughout this that I was like, okay,
okay, let's. We'll dip back into this whole,
like, rundown, about the
escape plan for when shit hits the fan.
(41:16):
But, but. But let's get back to present day.
Let's get back to what's going on here.
and it was. It felt very. It was one of
the. A very well paced
episode. Very well paced.
I didn't feel like we lingered
anywhere too much. And I
(41:36):
think that's why. One of the reasons why, when I
stopped, when it ended, I was like, oh, oh, it's
ended. Okay. Wow. Well, that
happened. That
escalated.
>> Will (41:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that escalated
very, very much. So that like many of our.
Many viewers and listeners of our show and
others have speculated, which
is, Terry's probably alive out there
somewhere. But it wasn't the way that we thought, you
know, it was. It was the way that they
tease it, with Samantha
(42:10):
using it as a. As a bargaining chip. I was like,
okay. Because, you know, I
was like, all right, I. I can,
That. That begs more questions, especially some of the. Some
of the things that we saw, you know, as
in this episode. And also I started theory spiraling and I was like,
okay, now, you know, going back to the Versailles
(42:31):
Protocol and, And the discussions about
Terry and Cal and, you
know, whenever having this, you know, when Marston
was like. When Cal was like, telling
Xavier, look, you know, maybe she should stop going to
Atlanta so much.
>> Sarah (42:46):
Yeah.
>> Will (42:47):
During that discussion. so I think it was one. It
was, you know, clearly he knew something
was going down. and, you
know, has it been said what Terry. I can't
recall what she. Because I was trying to think like, okay,
Atlanta, you know, big federal president,
just a scientist. She's a scientist. So my immediate thought
(43:08):
was, okay, you know, CDC's
there. You know, I was thinking, you know, she's, you know, she's, you know,
she was talking about how her projects grow in and stuff.
So I was thinking, first I thought cdc, but then I was starting to think
more about, like, okay, if she, if, if, if
he was still. If he did say, you know, they
could pick her up from a, you know, pick the plane, could go pick her
(43:29):
up from Atlanta. Cal saying that,
you know, is she working with his dad
with this Paradise Project and there. Are they. Are they
building another, you know,
site there? Especially when we learned that two nuclear warheads
were like, city.
>> Sarah (43:47):
You know, I don't. I had that
idea crossed my mind, back in, like,
episode two or something very early
on in this. In the show, but
because of how he talked about, like, she
should stop going there. I don't think they were building
another site.
(44:08):
I did what I did wonder if
maybe her work has to do with what
eventually happens. But,
but from the way it was portrayed on
screen, it seemed more like Cal
was. No, no, she needs to
be like. Like, it's
imminent. The danger is imminent,
(44:30):
and I think we can go get
her, but I
don't.
>> Will (44:36):
Yeah. Yeah. And to that point, too, that's why,
you know, I, did think also as I, You know, so I was running down
the theory spiral.
>> Sarah (44:44):
Yeah.
>> Will (44:44):
And another. Other thing was like, okay. He was also
telling, you know, he was given Xavier a
notes, like, you know, I can't tell you that the end of the world is
about to happen.
>> Sarah (44:54):
Right.
>> Will (44:54):
But, you know, but Atlanta's,
you know, clearly whoever attacks the United
States, they're going to, you know, it is a prime target that
they're going to want to wipe out.
>> Sarah (45:05):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we found out, like, two bombs
were dropped specifically on
Atlanta. Ah. I.
It's going to Connect to the number on the
cigarette. Like. Like, that's the.
That's the. There's really a reason why he
specifically wrote that number on the cigarette. I think it
(45:25):
has to do with the flight number. And.
And I think Cal did uphold
his promise to get her on a plane,
but plane ended up someplace
else. Now, I will say
I forget what point in the episode,
but when it was brought up that Terry was
(45:46):
alive, I was like, oh, so. So
she was the girl they found the woods. So.
So she. She was alive.
Pace killed her. Or
I was like, what?
>> Will (45:59):
Yeah, that's. Yeah.
>> Sarah (46:01):
But then Samantha said, and I'll help you find
her. And like. Okay, so Samantha
knows the plane she eventually got
onto and willing to help.
Now. Now that's. That's the
whole. Like, I don't
know how much Samantha is going to be willing to help once
she realizes that Jane has.
(46:23):
Has, is going to hold Presley's
hostage. So. So the
leverage is going to shift as soon as
Samantha realizes that. But.
>> Will (46:34):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (46:35):
but I will. Can. Can we just point out.
Okay, can we. Can we stop
the discussion? Samantha did not kill
a cow.
>> Will (46:44):
No, she did not.
>> Sarah (46:45):
And I've been saying that.
>> Will (46:47):
You were right. You were right. I was. I was
wrong on that one. I. I, And I was. I think I'm
also wrong in the sense that I'm. I'm willing to admit what I'm wrong,
but, you know, was she behind his death?
No, I don't think that is that either. So I'm putting.
Yeah, we can put back. We can put that one to bed.
>> Sarah (47:04):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank God. Because I. I was tired.
Now can more people get on my train?
Okay. Because we see a sweatshirt with the flower
emblem, and I know that's connected to,
to Kane.
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So can we.
Can we all hypothesize together? Tell me
(47:24):
that wasn't Terry.
>> Will (47:26):
That's my first. That was my first thought.
Whatever. Whenever Presley mentioned.
And I thought about the opening scene with. Where Terry
and Xavier were talking about that blue.
Her blue jacket. M. I was just like, oh.
And then there's also, you know, I,
I was. I did see someone, like, online. Someone pointed out the
(47:47):
fact that,
that Kane,
mentioned all the secrets
have flowers.
>> Sarah (47:56):
Yeah. Yes. Yes.
>> Will (47:58):
So I'm not. Yeah, I'm not gonna take credit for it. I
saw someone. Internet. I can't remember who said it, but they made the point of
that. And, you know, and whenever they. And even like, whenever
the. The pad. IPad, you
know, we Saw the flower, the jacket. We saw the flower
earlier in the season whenever they went to flashback who went
over Building Paradise. We saw people wearing the blue jackets
(48:19):
with the flower. Yeah, so. So it's
either, you know, so either Terry has something to do with it
they're killing or someone on the
project. But yeah.
>> Sarah (48:30):
Yeah. so. So. So we're gonna
rewind back to the
days when Will thought I was crazy. So my
two theories were that I've put out there,
like episode one and episode two, Terry killed
California.
My other theory, though, I. I think in
(48:51):
episode two, I said this. I said, I don't think we've
met the person who killed Cal.
>> Will (48:56):
Yeah, you did say that.
>> Sarah (48:58):
Which, based on the scene
and. And we were kind pretty much right
about how Presley obtained
the, It's still weird how
she. It's still weird
to me a little bit how they explain this.
So she shows up to play Wii,
(49:18):
but because she finds an iPad, she
leaves and takes the iPad,
thinking it'll have to do with her mother's
death. But why she
would think that about just a random iPad,
I don't know. Unless she's
been told. I don't know. Because
(49:39):
we know that Xavier is aware about the iPad.
But. Yeah,
Yeah, I. I felt. I think that's another reason
why I like this episode is I'm like, yep, not crazy.
Will was wrong. Finals
over way too many shows where he's right and
my theories are wrong.
>> Will (50:00):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, to my credit, I
did say that was just too obvious that Sammy. He did
too, that. That she would be the killer. But I,
was just like. But I. I was really thinking just because of
her. Her, motivations and especially as we. As
we, you know, trying to uphold this
society, as we saw it, even in this episode, as
(50:20):
I alluded to with the cat and mouse game between the two of them,
trying to hurt. Trying to protect the secret,
you know, that. That was sort of where I was sort of going with that.
But. Yeah, I mean, but, you know, she was, you know,
she definitely. You know, that was one of the things I did like
about this episode too. You know, obviously, clearly
the. The Die Hard references,
(50:41):
galore. But, But also
just, you know, with
Xavier, you know, being true to. You
know, as Terry pointed out, with the whole. You know, I
love how they used to see there in the. At the principal's
office. you know, how, you know that his
temperament and him
knowing Sinatra, but also Sinatra, I think
(51:02):
underestimated him a Little bit as well. Thinking back to,
like, to the palette.
>> Sarah (51:07):
She'S been estimating a lot of people.
Can I just point out one thing about that opening
scene, the student teacher
conference. what I
really liked about it is
not just that Terry with all of the
attitude and grace,
(51:28):
really calling things out and,
just being a character. But
typically when you see, like
when someone is clearly obsessed with their
job, it's often portrayed
in, TV and film
(51:48):
that because they're so intelligent and
obsessed with their work, they neglect their
children. I loved that
little line and moment walking
out where Terry knew more
about the project because she
knew that. Yeah, it was a
revenge. This was done on purpose.
(52:09):
Xavier had no idea.
>> Will (52:11):
Yep, yep.
>> Sarah (52:12):
I was just like,
that's great because you're taking.
We have this idea of who she is,
and then we're presented with a
character still not knowing.
But because of that one little line, I was
like, okay, okay. So. So
it's not. She may put. Arguably
(52:35):
put her marriage second, but she ain't putting her
kids second to her work. So not falling
into that. Like, she's not a mother who
abandoned them. like her
issue, like. And the fact that
they're not a perfect couple either because of the
strain. Because there's a clear
strain. And But. But that. Because
(52:57):
they've been together for so long, I'm sure that
has kind of just.
Just, scar.
>> Will (53:05):
Ah.
>> Sarah (53:05):
Tissue covered itself up. but,
yeah, I. I just wanted to point out that. Hold on.
>> Will (53:11):
That's a great point.
>> Sarah (53:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Will (53:14):
Especially when you juxtapose it against Sam, Samantha and
Sinatra as far as her, you know, especially when we see her sort of
backstory with her family and.
And as well. But. But really to your
point, really just, you know, really flipping the.
Also sort of flipping the switch too, that,
>> Sarah (53:32):
So wait, are you saying that Sinatra
was job obsessed?
>> Will (53:37):
Just a little.
>> Sarah (53:38):
Okay, see, I don't know.
Because.
>> Will (53:42):
Well, maybe. Maybe.
>> Sarah (53:43):
Maybe grief.
>> Will (53:44):
Yeah. Yeah. Actually, no, I think maybe. I
mean, maybe it's more
how. Yeah,
maybe it's, Yeah, let me. Let me rephrase that. I
think maybe it's more just
seeing how pe. How. To your point
about this, these character moments, as far as how people
react to situations even. Because all of
(54:07):
these people in paradise, for the most part,
are very successful people in
some form or fashion. you know, Cal was a little. You know, even though he
found his agency late in life, he, you know, he still. He
still was president even, though if it was manufactured by his
dad. But it did happen. but
it. Yeah, I mean, I think, you know,
(54:28):
those, those, those moments really
show how deep the
deep these characters are. you
know, and to your point,
how she, you know, how
Terry, you know, we've, you know, given that we've,
We've been told a lot about Terry but we haven't been shown a lot
about Terry. And I think when they did finally have the moment to show
(54:50):
her, they, they used it to its maximum
effect.
>> Sarah (54:54):
Yeah. Yeah, they, We didn't get too
much. We got just the right amount of Terry.
Even though we saw her in the hoodie too.
No, I don't know.
>> Will (55:07):
I don't know.
>> Sarah (55:07):
Yeah, because the one. There is a
flaw in this whole idea and that's just like.
Well, so, so she ran away.
She didn't at one point see Presley.
So. Yeah, that, That's a bit weird.
But I also want to point out, and we talked about
this last week, but I just want to bring it up again
because he was, he was
(55:29):
not as prominent in
this, in this episode.
But Jeremy, again, Jeremy
and Presley continue not to
behave and be written
as 10 year olds. Like
they're also. And also arguably in
this episode, they're, they're maybe
(55:51):
two written too maturely
because the fact that she admits that she was there and
shows him the ipod and he just accepts
everything like okay,
but. But I'm glad we don't have to spend like
five minutes on like what. Why did
you online. No, no, there was just acceptance.
(56:11):
And then she even showed him the
recordings that he then started to share with
everyone else at the end only for her then to
go and leave with Jane.
there are parts like those few beats.
There were a handful of
just parts of like we need to get this
(56:31):
character here conveniently and quickly.
We can't spend too much time on it.
>> Will (56:36):
Yeah, yeah, that. That would be that if that were to flaw
for this episode. For me that was. That was it those
conveniences. because that, you know,
one, her Jake
Presley, disobeyed her father.
Yeah. and then, and then. But you know,
just. But you know, but something's got it, you know.
But at the same time, if that doesn't
(56:58):
happen, then you know, Jeremy doesn't get the
iPad and, and they don't open it up and,
and really, you know,
open this. This whole story up even
more about what the truth of
paradise. you know, for. For the rest of the residents.
>> Sarah (57:15):
Right.
>> Will (57:16):
Yeah. So. So yeah, so yeah, I'll, you know, given
that the Whole. The rest of the episode was so that damn good. I. I'll.
I'll give him that one.
>> Sarah (57:23):
Yeah. The,
To just go back to the
flower sweatshirt for a quick moment.
I did. I was thinking about it last night,
and I was thinking, you know who we
haven't Scene in a hot, hot
minute? We haven't Scene
(57:43):
Cal's wife.
>> Will (57:45):
No, that's a good point.
>> Sarah (57:47):
And based on. Now we
don't see a face, but based on the
physique, there's a part of me
who's like, okay, was it Cow's wife?
>> Will (57:57):
It's a possibility.
>> Sarah (57:59):
really? Because. Because
we. We. We see her this one
time or like, we see her like
twice, maybe.
>> Will (58:09):
Yep.
>> Sarah (58:09):
And they have. It's. She's arguably one of the few
characters we haven't delved into at all.
>> Will (58:15):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:16):
And. And Jeremy's just roaming around town.
>> Will (58:19):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:20):
Yeah, that's.
>> Will (58:22):
That's. That's a good. That's a good flag as far as characters
that we. You know that. Because, you know, again, there is
motive, with the affair.
>> Sarah (58:30):
Yeah. Well, I. I
got the sense when she, like that. That's.
I get this sense that. That, like, she was
living in a separate house. They. They had already
in their minds divorced.
>> Will (58:45):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:46):
So. So I don't think it would have anything to do with
Robinson. It might.
I. It might have more to do
with the same similar reasons
to why Xavier is blowing
stuff up. Like. Like.
And. And because
(59:09):
I wonder how.
Like. And maybe that's why season two has already
been written because if it. If it was her, we're
gonna get the full backstory between her
and Cal and. And the falling
out, in the second season.
But. But it's definitely something.
(59:30):
An avenue that, The more I think
about it has not been explored. but was
definitely mentioned and should be a big part of
this. But clearly is it at the moment for
I. Which I think is purposeful.
>> Will (59:44):
Yeah. Yeah. I mean. Yeah. The one thing I do. Yeah. This series
has done a good job of is they don't drop things out there and
just leave them. Leave them hanging. It's all there for a
purpose. Either red hair. Yeah. Either. Either red herring
or for the overall. The bigger
mystery here.
>> Sarah (01:00:01):
Yeah. The. The last
character I want to bring up, which I don't really
want to. I just have to mention to it, is
that, Okay. Dr.
Tharabi Gabriella
continues to be my most
annoying character in this show.
Just ever since we had that conversation when
(01:00:24):
I called her a pickpie girl. That's all I see when she's on
screen in this episode. She just delved more
into that
and then also like, what. What was that
all about? So you're telling me Sam
not only is, spying on people,
but has the cameras in
(01:00:45):
people's bathrooms?
>> Will (01:00:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:00:48):
Great. Samantha. M. You're dirty, dirty, dirty
girl. Like, what are you doing peeping on people
while they're in shower?
>> Will (01:00:55):
Yeah. Yeah. She is the
ultimate control freak. I mean, yeah, I
mean. Yeah, I mean, yeah. The.
The funny thing with, you know, we talked about, you
know, Gabriella and whether or not she, you
know, her wild card factor.
and you know, and it's interesting as. As
things were just sort of falling apart, there
(01:01:18):
it was. Xavier's plan was just, you
know, M. With the, you
know, the three body problem, teasing her in the
sky messaging.
I I really was really struck by
their. Their motivations as far as why they want to keep
paradise,
going as far as, you know, you know, Sam for her
(01:01:40):
obvious reasons. But then the Robbie, you know, she, you know,
her whole thing was like this, this was her experiment.
And, and you know, whenever she was like
motivating Sam not to like, shut this guy
off to, you know, to reboot the system,
you know, so.
>> Sarah (01:01:55):
I don't think that's like. I. I think they have
the same reasons for wanting to keep paradise
going, but she was the voice
of reason and saying if you do
this, this is what will happen.
>> Will (01:02:09):
Yeah, I mean, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I think they both. They
both wanted to keep going, but I think. I think their
motivations are. Are
similar but different.
I mean, yeah, I mean, you know, well, Sam I think just wants to keep it
going just because she just doesn't want all the truth to come out
that you know, that
people are alive on the outside because that was the big lie
(01:02:32):
that they had to tell everyone to like, just to. To,
you know, to then go to the
Robbie's plan of like, we just gotta accept
this, and make a new. And make a new world. So
I think. So the motivations. I think the Robbie could, you know,
whether or not people are alive on the surface or not. I don't know if
that mama. It does play into her like, you know,
(01:02:52):
keeping this, you know, keeping this, you
know,
this program going forward. But
But, you know, yeah.
Ah, you know, so I think they still have
different motivations for, you know, for. For doing it because I mean, at the
end of the day, yeah, she is the voice to reason
(01:03:13):
But I think it was just for, you know, but her motivations were
different. And, you know, but also, she also sort of got to the. She also
figured out what Xavier was trying to tell her as far as the story about, you
know, pigs. Pigs. And, you know, being led to.
Via, What was it? The led. To the slaughter?
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:27):
To the slaughter.
>> Will (01:03:29):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:29):
Yeah. I. I don't know if I can get
100% sure or, on board with the
motivation thing, but maybe it's just because I'm
dealing with semantics. But,
Yeah, I. I
just. She's the worst.
Like, I love how will continues. You
(01:03:49):
continue to, like, want to make Sam
out to be this awful person. And
then. And I'm like, no, she's not that bad. And
then comes to doctor therapy.
I'm like, the worst.
>> Will (01:04:03):
Yeah, no, yeah, they're both. They're both bad for different
reasons. I mean, I
will say that, you know, they do. You know, I think
to. To your point, though, you know, they are. They do.
Even through all the bad things that
Sam does, I mean, they're still trying to retain her
humanity.
>> Sarah (01:04:22):
I understand why she's doing it. I
don't understand
Gabriella. And if I
did, I would not be
as. Arguably, I would not be as
annoyed. But it's when I'm like. I don't.
Like. Like you were saying before, her motivation.
Why? So she can keep. Like, she
(01:04:44):
doesn't know that people are alive on the
outside. So she's still, like.
She's still under this guise
that like this world. So
her motivations are not necessarily
to, like. She doesn't have a
devious motivation there.
>> Will (01:05:03):
And that's, Yeah, I mean, that's. That's where I was getting at. I mean,
I think that's where Sam and the Robbie's
motivations diverge. Because I think back to the
conversation
and whenever, you know, when Xavier
and. And the Robbie.
>> Sarah (01:05:18):
Social architect. Yep.
>> Will (01:05:20):
Social architect. Yeah. I mean, that. That's her life's work. I mean,
it's. It's a. It's an academic exercise for her
to see if we can make this thing work,
whereas Sam's
motivations are, you
know. You know. You know, different from
that. It's not about social architecture. It's just.
It's. It's to keep this, you know, this
(01:05:42):
dream that she had come up with, you know, as sort of
memorial and to her. To her. Her
son, in some regards, alive. Because when
you think about everything that's planned in that, you know, when
we think back to the Horse and all the other
architecture around the city. I mean, it's, you know, it's
reminders for her about her son.
>> Sarah (01:06:04):
Yeah.
>> Will (01:06:04):
Yeah, but I, You know, I mean, there's many ways you can
interpret it. I mean, I'm saying. I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just. It's just. I think there's
many ways you can look at it.
>> Sarah (01:06:12):
Yeah.
>> Will (01:06:16):
But, But, yeah, it's like. Yeah, but I'm, trying to think there's any
other major points. I mean,
Kane was just
served as. Yeah, yeah, he just
served. He basically was the iPad opener. And then, you know,
and it's, you know, all the billionaires got off to their, you know, got
to their. To their bunkers and. And, you know,
it was also just really cool to sort of seeing, like, you
(01:06:39):
know, Xavier's. How many people have Xavier's back.
And as far as pulling the team together, because I was also worried
throughout the episode was one of those agents gonna, like, you know,
turn, turn on. Turn on
them, and. And. And spill to tip
off Jane as far as where. Where they are and what they were doing.
>> Sarah (01:06:56):
For some reason, I didn't have that worry. I
liked the reason. I like the explanation for
why Robinson didn't bring Jane, and I thought
that was clever.
>> Will (01:07:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:07:07):
Not convenient, but, like, okay, that makes
sense of why she wouldn't. I was mainly
worried Xavier was gonna call in
Jane. Like, that's
the only. Nobody else.
Yeah, he was clearly focused on.
On other. Other things. and
(01:07:27):
after Robinson said what she said, he was like, okay, that's
fine. but. But
yeah, I. Yeah, we'll. We'll
see. we got two more episodes
left. Is that right? Yeah, Seven.
>> Will (01:07:41):
Yeah. Seven. Eight. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:07:42):
All right. and on that note,
Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:07:48):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at Will and,
Polk W, I L, L, M, M P.
>> Sarah (01:07:53):
O L, K. And you can find me there, too, at S.J. belmont.
SJBL M O N T. Please follow our
crew on X, formerly known as Twitter,
@Cena Nerd on Blue Sky @Cena
Nerd. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on
Instagram and m threads at scene, underscore n
underscore nerd. And visit our website,
www.scenenerdpodcast. com. But most
(01:08:14):
importantly, rate, follow, and comment on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek out.
You're welcome.
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