February 7, 2025 • 62 mins
In this episode, Sarah Belmont and Will Polk are all about February vibes—celebrating birthdays, Black History Month, and Valentine's Day. Before talking about Paradise on Hulu, they kick things off by shining a light on Black excellence in film, chatting about some exciting upcoming projects with Black directors and actors, including the much-anticipated "Captain America 4" and "Opus." (0:00)
As the convo flows, they dive into the latest buzz around the "Fantastic Four" trailer. Get ready for their hot takes on the animation style, character portrayals, and that sweet dose of nostalgia it brings, all while pondering what the future holds for the MCU. (7:40)
Then, Sarah and Will take a deep dive into the Hulu series "Paradise," breaking down episodes three and four. They explore the character dynamics, especially Xavier's journey through grief, and the unexpected twists that keep us on the edge of our seats, including the shocking fate of Uncle Billy. Throughout the episode, they reflect on the show's storytelling style, the use of flashbacks, and how it might connect to other series like "The Leftovers." They wrap things up with their predictions for what's next for Xavier and the gang. (18:50)
Join the fun and connect with us on X @SceneNNerd, on Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, friend us on Facebook, and check us out on Instagram and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Don’t forget to swing by our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you love the show, please rate, follow, and drop a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you tune in!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:00):
Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with
me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:06):
Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?
>> Sarah (00:09):
Doing M. Good. I'm doing good. It is
February.
>> Will (00:13):
Yes, it is.
>> Sarah (00:15):
It is my birthday month. It is Black
History Month, and it
is Valentine's, Day next
weekend.
>> Will (00:23):
Yes, it is. Yeah, it's a packed month.
>> Sarah (00:27):
It is, but it isn't.
>> Will (00:29):
Well, after the year that we. This, you know, after the
year of.
>> Sarah (00:32):
January, yeah, that's usually what happens.
January is a marathon. And then you get February,
which feels like a breathe. Breather. And
then you get March, which feels like another
marathon. However, with
March is this weird place. It's in a weird place in
the calendar where, like, you're through the
holiday season. Like, the seasons
(00:55):
are changing, but it's not quite April.
So it's just. It's just. Yeah,
yeah, but. But we're. We're. We got one month down,
Will. One month down. 11 more to go.
>> Will (01:06):
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Actually, happy February. This is the first
episode for February. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:13):
We, we celebrated, the end of the month
last time. Yes, we did.
>> Will (01:18):
Yes, we did. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:20):
M. Speaking about Black History Month,
though. M. So tell me about this
Black History Month weekly Spotlight.
>> Will (01:27):
Yeah, yeah. So, you know,
it. Given that it is Black History Month and just, you
know, and just all the. This world and the. In the
universe right now and then and just
wanted to, like, highlight some things
each week. As far as this week, for
example, I was just going to highlight some of the things that are coming in
(01:48):
2025 done that either has a black director
or actor or black lead. and it's
really just celebrate black excellence in film because there's just
so much that's out there. And just wanted to use
this as an opportunity to, you know, talk about,
for example, as we were right before we recorded, we do have Captain
America 4 coming up, next week.
(02:08):
And so, of course, you know, really
excited for this opportunity to see
Antony Mackie, you know, lead a film. I mean, of course he's done, you know,
you know, Hurt Locker and. And. And of course been
in MCU now for forever. But, you know,
really passing on the mantle of Captain America with this
character. We also have, Opus,
(02:28):
which, IO at a very. Who. of course, everybody knows from the
bear.
>> Sarah (02:31):
Yep.
>> Will (02:32):
Yeah. So she is, she is in. In
that film. it's, you know, it's a, you know,
Mix of fantasy site, horror. It's
also has a black director, Mark Antony Green, which is just
actually his only. His second credit. I was looking at his
IMDb. he did a short before. but
it's about a young writer who goes to a remote home of a
(02:53):
legendary pop star who disappeared 30 years prior.
And, Yeah. And. And she.
Apparently this character is coming back. So. So
that's. That's a film that comes, out March
14th. for fans of I.O.
from. From the Bear. we also.
>> Sarah (03:09):
Sorry, who's playing Opus in that?
>> Will (03:14):
I, think it's. She is playing the league. She's
the young writer who goes.
>> Sarah (03:18):
Yeah, but who's playing the famous person?
>> Will (03:21):
I'm not. I can't recall right off top of my head to go back and
look at the.
>> Sarah (03:25):
I'll look it up while you talk about the next thing because,
visually see who it is. And I cannot place
the name for some reason. And it. It's not. Is it John
Malkovich?
>> Will (03:34):
It is. It is. That's who it is.
>> Sarah (03:36):
Yeah. Lately. And nobody judged
me. Nobody judged me. They're both older white men.
Okay. But lately I've been getting Ben
Kingsley and John Malkovich confused.
>> Will (03:49):
Well, they've had long filmographies and. Yeah.
But,
>> Sarah (03:52):
Yeah, I've been getting a little confused.
And we will talk about John Malkovich in a
little bit for something else. But anyway.
>> Will (04:01):
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Then we
have Ash, which is a film that's gonna
be. It's a. Actually gonna be on the streamer
shutter. but it's a horror film. And,
it's stars,
Daniel. let's see. Ash, is directed by
a black director, has a white cast, but it's a flying lotus
(04:22):
who's done a lot of work in composing and
so, this is directorial debut. So these are all
films that's coming up in 2025, March,
21st. we also have Woman in the Yard starring
Danielle Didweiler. who is. That's a
film that is, another black horror film. So I'm
doing sci fi horror, you know, sci
(04:43):
fi adjacent horror
films. That's coming out March 28th.
but, you know, of course, she's known for the Heart of the Fall,
as well as several other films as well.
Sinners is another film that we talked, about on our.
On my list of things I'm looking forward to in 2025.
But that's with, of course, directed by Ryan Coogler and of course,
(05:03):
Michael P. Jordan. That's coming out April
18th. also,
and then to close it as close out. As far
as projects m. From black
film makers, producers, directors.
Jordan Peele's returning this year with the film that
he's producing, called him. And
(05:24):
it's a. It's a mix of sports and
horror movies where you have a young quarterback
who takes up tutoring from
a. A ah.
In a compound with. That has a
grizzled veteran quarterback as. As his
mentor. And that's the horror film that's coming out
produced by Jordan Peele on September 19th.
(05:46):
So those are the projects. Projects that I was just
wanted to just focus on, you know, where,
you know, in 2025 that you know, keeping it. Keep. They'll
keep an eye on either, you know, going to the theater or all
streaming. Yeah.
>> Sarah (05:59):
Who's. Who's directing the. Jordan Peele
It.
>> Will (06:02):
Oh. as far as the director, it's
let's see. I know Marlon Williams is starring in
it. Justin
Tipping, who
directed Episode of the Chi
and also a film called the
Kicks.
>> Sarah (06:20):
Okay. Yeah, that's good. It must
be. It must be hard. I wonder. I
wonder if like somebody who's a
successful director and
then when they do their produce, when they're just the
producer role and especially if someone
hasn't done as much like
(06:41):
how much producing is mentoring
that director. Yeah, yeah,
very. It's very curious.
but, yeah, well, that is.
Thank you for doing that. and I know that we're only
getting started because it's literally the first week of the
month. So there will be more space spotlights
to come in upcoming weeks. But to circle back
(07:04):
around to old white men for
just a minor minute because
why John Malkovich was also like, as soon as
you said opus, I'm like, I keep seeing that trailer
and I see his face. And then I also saw his
face smack dab dressed up as
Gandalf in the Fantastic Four trailer.
>> Will (07:24):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (07:25):
Which. And. And I. I'm just gonna
give some insight during to our
lovely pre show conversation
where Will likes to sneak
in right before he hits record. It's. It's kind of
like, Sarah, I'm not gonna start recording
until you confirm this one thing because he knows me.
He knows I like to hold my cards to my
(07:47):
vest and I like to keep him on his toes so I
won't tell him stuff.
He's like, did you or did you not
watch the trailer?
And. And I know if I say no, he's
gonna be like, nope, we're not recording. You go watch.
(08:08):
He's done that before.
>> Will (08:10):
I have.
>> Sarah (08:11):
it's been very awkward, but we've
done it. So, So, yeah, I
watched the trailer and,
I enjoyed it because it's a true
teaser. True.
Sweet Breeze Easy
trailer. I still have no idea really
what the overall story
(08:34):
arc will be, but they
do a lot of little clips
now. Two things, though,
that I am going to be the troll
about is,
Ben Grimm was not working
for me. Was not working for me.
(08:58):
The animation in a lot of
the scenes, for some reason it just stuck
out too much. And I
kept thinking about it today. I was like,
it's weird because I've seen
three movies with a talking squirrel
and never questioned the
animation. But for some reason,
(09:21):
when the thing moves his eyebrows, I'm like,
that's weird. And I also think
there might be something. And again, this is
early. This can all be fixed in post. I have no
idea if this is actually what we're going to see
on screen or if there's going to be some
tweaks added as time,
gets closer to release date.
(09:43):
But I almost feel like,
because I. I've seen the bear season
two probably 20
times.
>> Will (09:53):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:55):
the voice of that actor.
Yes. You know his name. And I also know his name is really
hard to say, but cousin, you know who you are.
I. It just. It throws
me.
>> Will (10:08):
Yeah, it did. I. I was there
with you. I was like. I was thinking cousin the whole time, even
when I. Cause I. I did. I watched the trailer. you know,
I did. I called some of the, the teas
lead up to it, which I did a very. They did. You know,
Transformers 1 did this too, where they had the
whole pre show before the actual
(10:30):
trailer dropped. and so I did watch a little bit of
it. But then once I did watch the trailer, at the
first and when. When, the thing
was there with Herbie the
Robot and because, you know, with the sauce, I was. I
was just like, yeah, it took me out of it for. It did take me out. It
did. Because I did think. I was thinking cousin.
>> Sarah (10:49):
yeah, yeah, it's. It's. It's
hard. And. And probably because it's also
just his voice.
>> Will (10:56):
His voice is so distinct. Eben Baccarat, I think is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (11:00):
Yep, you said it. I'm
still on the fence on if I can say it. And
the other thing, because
I watched it and then I watched a few people.
Few reactions to it. and so the more
I saw it, the more I was like,
yeah, Johnny isn't working either.
(11:21):
I love that actor, I really do.
What I mean by is not working because this has
nothing to do with performances at all. I'm just talking
visuals because that's really all we got for the most
part is that it's
just the blonde hair and blonde
eyebrows and the
(11:42):
kid, he looks
very like they're trying to make
him younger and he, he looks more
boyish and it's just, I'm just
like, we all watch Stranger
Things. This
doesn't line up.
>> Will (12:01):
It's, it's hard for think for
especially, I mean, and once we see the film itself,
maybe all of these things that we're equivalent about will,
you know, we will disappear. Yes,
but, but, but, but whenever
they, the characters that they play. Because Joseph Quinn played a
very, you know, and think, like you said in Stranger Things is a very
(12:21):
pivotal character. And of course, and same
with Ben Graham's actor. Very pivotal, you know,
and so, yeah, I mean it's hard, it does take you out of
it. and I agree, I think both, in both, in both
instances it did take me out of
the trailer a little bit whenever I saw them
because I was so, you know, just identify with the other
(12:41):
characters that it portrayed.
>> Sarah (12:43):
And it's, you know, the irony, the
irony is that
like the third person,
the lead of this cast is Pedro
Pascal. We've seen him in
so many things and I'm, it's just like at
this point, yeah, that's Pedro,
he gets a pass. But, but they also didn't do
(13:05):
anything to really make him look
different. No, no,
no. So, so I think that's why
again, a lot of what we're nitpicking about is
mainly the visuals. It's nothing to do with
performances or anything. It's just
like what we're seeing and what we're hearing in these
brief clips. Like, I don't know if that's
(13:27):
gonna, gonna work out. The,
the overall package that they're selling
looks good and look thought
through.
>> Will (13:37):
Yeah, yeah. To that point. Yeah. I mean I think
for me that I just, I just love the crispness of it and
the, I got the retro, I mean the
retro future, retro futuristic vibe that
they were giving off with the 60s
alternate. Yeah, it, it nailed it. I
mean I was visually. It just color gradient, everything
about it. I was like, oh, I, yeah,
(13:59):
I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. You got
me. I'm really Looking forward to this film now just
see that aesthetic.
>> Sarah (14:06):
Well, same person who did Loki.
>> Will (14:10):
Yeah, true.
>> Sarah (14:11):
That's true. Photography and set design and all that, from
what I understand. So I was fully on board
for that. The other thing, and this is my last
point, and it's funny because when
we say this is an authentic teaser, we mean it. This
is really what teaser should be.
watch this. And the Superman
(14:31):
first trailer, like, teaser. There's a
difference. And I'm
not saying, like, comparably they both do their
job, but Superman gave a little bit more away,
and I don't know if that was necessary. That's all I'm saying.
But so my last point that I
think is so interesting, and I wonder how
(14:52):
long it lasts, and I wonder why.
But we saw,
everyone but
Pedro use his powers.
>> Will (15:03):
Yep.
>> Sarah (15:05):
And. And I think that that's
just that, I mean,
yeah, we didn't see a lot of characters
or were teased a lot of characters that we're expecting to
see in this movie. But that
aside, like, they can hold back on characters,
I think it's more interesting. You're
holding back on your
(15:27):
leads superpower.
And I just. I wonder how.
Why that is, because I think they.
>> Will (15:35):
Feature his other superpower, which is his mind.
>> Sarah (15:38):
Yeah, there you go. There you go.
Very. And they're leading with that. Which.
Which is smart because he doesn't have the
best superpower in the world. Beta's
man, it's pretty
stupid. For the smartest
man, like, in the world, it's
(15:58):
pretty super. Super.
>> Will (16:02):
Yeah. But, yeah,
that's. That's the thing they let in. They were leaning into that. And
I think that was the perk that, that. Yeah,
I. I think that was the right move. Everything about,
like I said earlier, while we
were in our pre. Conversation about being a true
teaser, it really, like you said at the outset, it's truly
(16:22):
a true teaser. And it. And it. I'm
excited for.
Of the three Marvel films coming out this year, I mean, this is the one
I'm most excited for.
>> Sarah (16:32):
Oh, absolutely. I think you and majority of
the people.
>> Will (16:36):
Yeah, yeah. And I'm not even a big. I mean, I was. I'm not even
a big Fantastic Four comic fan. I
mean, so. But. But just as
it's, just again for this
franchise. Yeah. Okay. I'm like, okay, this is the
one.
>> Sarah (16:51):
Yeah. Yeah, it.
Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Yeah. We got
ways to go. But it.
I don't know, it just was
a good glimpse and a lot
of the stuff that
we were told, it felt like it was a
fulfillment of a promise.
(17:14):
now I know it won't be fully fulfilled until we see the
full movie and especially how that
freaking third act will go.
Honestly, a lot of these, in this
genre of film, it all hinges on how
well do you execute your third act, pretty
much.
>> Will (17:32):
And hopefully they, you know, now that we're deep into
the. Into the mcu, hopefully they have like, tweaked the third act
as we, as we move forward. So we'll see.
>> Sarah (17:40):
Well, and also, this movie is
doing a lot. It's got a lot of ground
to make up for, especially as we launch into
whatever this phase or
this next slate of films for the
MCU is. But. All right, well, we will
put a pin in that because we will return
in a few weeks to talk more about the MCU
(18:03):
with Captain America 4.
so until then, we're going to continue our discussion
about paradise on Hulu. I
hope everybody is watching it, just like we
are, because this is a spoiler filled
discussion and we don't hold back. And
so if you want us to ruin the
episode, then by all means. I mean, I do that for
(18:25):
myself, but I do encourage you to watch it
too. so
the first episode, episode three,
the architect of social well being,
Xavier seeks answers on his own and
cautiously turns to Dr.
Torabi. Meanwhile, Billy and Jane
(18:45):
feel the pressure from Robinson.
so I'm just gonna put this out here. I
did not like this episode.
This episode,
rubbed me the wrong way
and the way they ended it.
(19:06):
and then I
knew last week when I was talking specifically about the
pilot episode, I'm like, oh,
the bar is too high,
too high. The writing was too good.
I don't, I don't, I don't
know. I'm not off the train. I'm
(19:27):
still on the train. But
this episode, I
started to,
It just. I started to,
How do I put it? I was putting
together the pieces almost
ahead of time.
(19:48):
And when I, like when
I start doing that with this type of show, I'm
just like, oh, no, no, no. This is
not where I want to be. I want to be. I want to
be one step behind. I can't be a step in
front. so
that. And. And a few other things.
But, what are your overall thoughts about this
(20:11):
episode?
>> Will (20:12):
Yeah, of the four episodes that we have watched,
I will agree with you that this one was,
for me the weakest of the four.
and for
me, it was
more. The more interesting parts of this episode. For me.
Were the flashbacks than present day?
(20:35):
Because to the very thing that you just shared, which
is. Oh wait, I see where this is going. You know, I see
at the end of this episode that Xavier and Dr.
Turabi are going to hook up.
>> Sarah (20:46):
Yeah.
>> Will (20:46):
You know, so, so, so the things that were happening in
present day, really, you know,
it. Yeah, it was like, okay, it's kind of telling you
predictable as far as that piece.
But the flashbacks I thought were, were
strong, you know, for. And we'll, you know, we'll get into, you know,
deeper into that, as we discuss it. But that's,
(21:08):
that's just sort of my overall thoughts, quick overall thoughts of the
episode.
>> Sarah (21:12):
Yeah. And we, we can start with the flashbacks
because I honestly will just say I
felt like the flashbacks were just as predictable as the
present day stuff because I knew, like
you knew from the get go that
he wasn't speaking to his father. You didn't know
why, but as soon as it's brought up Parkinson's
and his reaction, you're like, oh, you sold him
(21:34):
out. Yeah, this
isn't a big mystery. And it's just.
I don't know why. I, I, I was
waiting the whole time for it to be
like, okay, this is what I think is going to happen.
They, they need to turn left. Like, where's
the left turn? Where's what? I wasn't expecting.
(21:56):
and that didn't happen. And so
I just, I mean, I felt like the
moments were sweet and it was
a, you understood more.
They helped. They did do a good job.
similar to the first two episodes of.
More importantly than the whole,
(22:17):
like, why. Why was it. Why was he
on bad terms with his father and what happened on his
father's last flight. It was more
about contextualizing why
Dr. Tharabi told him in that
earlier to say yes to that
question and during the interrogation.
Like, that was the whole purpose
(22:40):
of those flashbacks. And so I
wasn't. I don't think they were a throwaway by any
means or anything. That's not what I'm saying.
But I did think they were a bit too, it
was a bit too simple and straightforward
storytelling for me.
>> Will (22:56):
Yeah, it definitely, yeah. This episode, to me really just
sort of, sort of. If you look at it like a
coloring book, it was like filling it, you know, color in the
lines and contextualizing the
picture of like you said,
why she told him. Yes.
How, you know, and basically answering the question, how did
(23:16):
all these, you know, what's so special about the 25, 000 people
who got selected here because you know, the first couple, as
they were setting things up, you know, we learned, we know there's a
catastrophe. We know that
you know, 25, 000 can make it in here. But
then it really got into the why. You know the why whenever
she, you know, she, you know, basically
(23:37):
Sinatra, ah, had this plan
and she found, you know, whenever
she used Gabriella to
you know, originally she was her, you know, her therapist but also she
was going to be the architect for, for this and, and,
and, and you know, really we see everybody
has. As a role.
(23:58):
yeah, and we, yeah and we see
like the initial, you know, whenever
Hal Xavier basically became the head of the
detail, which you know, again just sort of deepens the,
deepens the
context and the relationship as far as, like
here's, here's why he became the head of the detail
and, and, and really expl. You know, we see
(24:21):
like, I guess we get some glimpses as far as
how Cal, Bradford, you
know, sort of makes, it makes his decision making
and you know, how he, how he is as a president. you
know, and that charm that we also saw in the second
episode, was you know, when he was talking to Samantha
as well. So you know, so, you know, it just sort of fleshes out
more about these characters.
>> Sarah (24:42):
Well, yeah, I think that
the, so to move back to present
day the social
architect thing and understanding Dr.
Tharabi more, was interesting especially
because we saw the extended scene
that we had seen earlier,
of Cal first meeting
(25:04):
Xavier. And it was in the pilot
episode, it was always presented, even up
until the end during their last encounter of
like why. Why did
you choose me? Like, I still don't
understand. But it turns out it wasn't
Cal who picked, it was Thorabi.
(25:24):
And I think more.
There's more emphasis though not on the fact that
Cal
didn't pick Xavier,
but Doc.
Samantha.
Samantha. Why am m I blinking?
Sinatra. But what's her real name?
>> Will (25:45):
Yeah, Samantha.
>> Sarah (25:46):
Yeah, Samantha. Yeah, Samantha didn't
pick him either. Like
so. So I wonder.
And I looked, watched that scene very
closely on her reaction and it
almost appeared like I got
the impression that maybe because
(26:06):
she had put Gabriella in charge, it
wasn't like she's not the type of person to put somebody in
charge and not like micromanage.
So I'm sure she vetted a lot of that
list and we learn more about people. She even
added so. But ah, from her
reaction to Gabriella coming in
(26:26):
There with that file, it looked like this was someone
that Samantha had not vetted.
>> Will (26:32):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:32):
And maybe that's. That leads more into
the kind of, I don't
know, I don't know how to
describe it. It's not quite
antagonistic, but the
uncertainty that exists between Samantha
and Xavier.
>> Will (26:51):
Totally.
>> Sarah (26:52):
for a few different reasons.
>> Will (26:54):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:55):
But. Yeah, so, so okay. Why did
they have to hook up? I don't. I don't
understand. I. Usually
I'm all for my fan fiction. we even
saw Sterling K. Brown, like, total
backside. But I, I.
For some reason, I felt very uncomfortable and I
was like, like, like, this is weird. And
(27:17):
this is way too fast for me to get on board with
this. I don't. This is it.
What?
>> Will (27:24):
Yeah. So I was wondering what the angle was too, because.
Especially given how broken
Xavier is about his wife.
>> Sarah (27:33):
Yeah.
>> Will (27:34):
That's why I just. That's why I just didn't,
And maybe it was just sort of the manipulation. This is
showing just how. Well, you know, to. What's with the
larger, murder plot
that's going on here as far as to who done it.
so I was like. I was like. So I was like, are they going that route
with. Well, no, I was just. I was thinking
(27:56):
of. Are they going that route with it?
Because it's showing how. How the Robbie
could manipulate Xavier. Because I
wasn't. You know, because I just didn't
buy. You know, this man is just
like. You know, he's. He's so like, broken
from. In some ways, as far
(28:16):
as, you know, he's angry because of
what happened in his wife being left out in the.
In the. Not being able to get to the mountain
and everything. And so I, I just. I
just. It just seemed very.
I mean. Yeah, I just. It just didn't sit right well with me
either.
>> Sarah (28:35):
Yeah. It just. So. So my
whole thing is. Because
this happens throughout the. Both of
these two episodes. it's. It's very
clear how much he was in love with his wife.
Still is. And even three years later.
>> Will (28:52):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (28:53):
And, all I. All
I. My. My theory is. And this is part of the
reason why I'm just not on board with that
whole. This whole thing is they're
setting it up so the wife is still alive, and then there's
going to be a conflict because he's kind of
moved on. That's. That's the thing.
(29:13):
And I'm just like, that
it's. You can't do that in the
first season because
if they do that. That pisses me
off because as a viewer
for the. For. For that kind, which. It
can. It can work. I've seen very few
(29:33):
shows pull that off.
but you actually have
to have spent time
with these two people circling
each other and then to come together
and then get that reveal.
Like, you can't do that in the third
episode when it's like, well, one minute
(29:55):
you're just saying, oh, I met him one time, and the next
thing you're. You're humping him while
you're whispering in his ear, I have a message from the president.
Which also. What kind of pillow talk is
that? Like. And they just
continued after that. Like,
yeah, it's.
>> Will (30:14):
It's like. It's, you know, it's. You, know, it's like the
COVID world. Everybody's broken. I mean, I guess after three years
being in the mountain and
thinking that everything. Everything
that you knew before, you know, society's
rules are now just broken. And. And, you know,
we just. We just got to make it however we go. But, you
(30:35):
know, but also to that, you know, as they were
Make. As they were making out and
with the whole, you know, checking for a wire and of
course, the electronic devices and going in the shower. So,
you know, you know, so I guess on the one.
I guess. I guess that's why, like I
said, maybe there was like, some kind of manipulation going on
(30:56):
or, or misdirection.
because just with
all. With all the things we just discussed now, it just didn't.
It just. Or maybe, you know, basically, you
know, again, they're just
freaking horny. And it is. That's the more they
spent time together. And the cat, you know, and the dance they were
(31:16):
doing throughout the episode, as far as, you know, her trying
to learn more about him.
>> Sarah (31:23):
She. She views him as her
ticket out from under Samantha.
>> Will (31:29):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (31:30):
So. So maybe I, I.
From that angle, I can see a little manipulation.
But at the same time, she, wanted
him more than he wanted her. So, like,
I. Which I don't blame her, but
she. She, like, came on very strong.
>> Will (31:47):
She did.
>> Sarah (31:48):
And. And that's another thing. I'm supposed to
want the female to, like, get her a man. And
I was like, I don't know how to feel.
This seems weird. It's just, I can't.
I. And again, it goes
back to my theory of where this is headed,
especially after the next episode.
(32:10):
But. And the editing. I didn't like the
editing in the end because it
was very clear to me, despite the
Whispering. But the cut to Billy
in the car with the gun.
>> Will (32:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:24):
Like, I just. I knew. I was like,
well, duh. He.
There's a crazy person on the run
in this, like, mountain
and Xavier still alive and
for a reason. And, yeah, if. If I
was Uncle Billy, I would have done the same thing. So
(32:45):
I just. Yeah, I.
Yeah.
>> Will (32:49):
third episode. Yeah, you know, third episode. Like I said, it was
the. You know, I get where they were coming with the drama,
and you're right. I mean, the issue, you know, with. With his dad
and the dad storyline, I.
I mean, I like the moments. I mean, it was very touching.
It's something that, you know, all kids have
to. You know, if you're fortunate enough that your parents get old enough,
(33:09):
you know, we all have to hit that. Hit that place
where you're going to have to, you know, do
something like what Xavier did, which was, you know,
to get him, you
know, get his license revoked, whether it's his pilot's license or
driver's license or whatever. But. But again, I
just. I. It.
(33:29):
I don't. I don't know what it.
I'm trying to. And maybe we'll get some context as
far as what it adds to the overall story. I mean, I guess it gave us some
greater depth as far as, you know.
>> Sarah (33:41):
What did. The flashbacks?
>> Will (33:44):
Yeah, the flashbacks.
>> Sarah (33:45):
Oh, the flashbacks were more about Dr.
Thurabi's reasoning for having
Xavier.
>> Will (33:53):
Yeah. Yeah. So maybe. I guess maybe what was.
Yeah, so maybe why. It felt
like, Unfulfilling. Yeah,
it just felt kind of like filler, just to, like, pad out the
episode.
>> Sarah (34:05):
Yeah, it. It's
hard. I. I can't. Like, we're so early in the
season, and I know it's a short season,
too, so it just.
I. I don't think. I think what I'm
starting to notice is some
patterns where I'm also
reading ahead, and I'm just like, well, if they
(34:27):
do that, then that means this, and if they go that
direction, I don't know if I'm gonna. Like,
you just. It's just.
>> Will (34:37):
I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like.
>> Sarah (34:39):
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, this is a
good time to jump into the fourth episode because, like, these
two episodes do contextualize one another
because. And there is an
aspect of the third episode that we didn't talk about, but
bleeds right into the fourth episode because
Billy and, Drizzle.
(34:59):
Jane, Drew call.
like, we learned. And it's pretty obvious that they're the
ones who. Who cut the cameras
and We. We learn about we
Tennis night.
>> Will (35:12):
Yeah. Air quotes. We Tennis
night. Yeah, it was.
>> Sarah (35:16):
We.
>> Will (35:16):
Yeah, it was a lot of weed happening that night, for sure.
>> Sarah (35:18):
A lot of drunkenness, a lot of,
using cow's toys, while he's
asleep. does that make them dangerous?
No. No. Something else makes them dangerous.
but the funny thing is when that was
playing out during the third episode, I was like, what the
heck? That's so weird. And then
the fourth episode happens and we learn
(35:41):
all about Billy Pace.
>> Will (35:43):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (35:44):
during the carnival. and we
even learned about a little bit about Jane. But.
And it, and it makes all the sense in the world
for why. And the
writing of Billy from the get go
has been on point for me.
>> Will (36:01):
Yes, same.
>> Sarah (36:01):
And so this is another grievance.
Why do they keep killing the characters? I
like? Okay, they need to stop doing this. I
mean, I knew going in Cal was only
going to be featured in the flashbacks,
but now you've taken Uncle Billy
from me. Like, what the heck?
>> Will (36:21):
I was pissed. I was just like. I sat there, I was just
like, it wasn't, I didn't have the last of us reaction that I
had whenever we lost
some characters. But I was, I was
gutted. I. Because I really, you know, I
really liked the work that John B. Rose
is doing as agent Billy base.
>> Sarah (36:40):
and I was
mad as soon as he told him, yeah, I need one
more night to be able to. And then I'm gonna go. And I'm
like, dude, yeah. Why?
Okay, can. Can we just all take a moment?
Okay. Lesson as
a writer. Don't do that.
(37:01):
Don't, don't. I just.
That I'm sorry. I just want to get this point out
to m. Me that is amateur hour. I don't know
why they would have included a line like that. Because
that is clear telegraphing that that
character is not going to make it throughout the
rest of the episode. Like when. And as soon as somebody says,
(37:23):
oh, yeah, we'll do that tomorrow, like this very critical
piece of information. And.
And you're like, oh, yeah, you're going to
die. I wasn't necessarily expecting
Jane, but the longer that that scene went on, I was
like, oh, okay. And now more
importantly, it pisses me off because I
know something that.
(37:45):
About this society
paradise that Xavier
doesn't.
>> Will (37:51):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:51):
And so I'm just. For the rest of the episodes,
I'm just like, okay. So as a viewer, I know
this catch up Xavier.
>> Will (38:02):
I will say I didn't think it was amateur hour. I
actually thought it was damn good writing because it,
it was a per. It was a bookend to the beginning of the
episode about. Even though it
was a shitty uncle who was like trying to get the message about
never hesitate. Yeah, it just, it made it
to me. It made it to me. It was like.
(38:22):
Yeah, I saw the moment. You know, we, you know, we all saw
it coming. Whenever. Well,
he was going to tell him in the next morning. you
know, I was worried it was going to happen there in the park, like some sniper
was going to take him out in front of the kids.
that's what I thought. That's what I thought was going to happen.
but but no, but but no. I thought
(38:43):
that it was just, you know, the lessons that
Billy fault, you know, over, you know,
fault all. You know, from his
young, young days. Whenever we first, you know, when an episode
first starts and we see him
there on the hunting trip and stuff with his, with his shitty
uncle. you know, so yeah, I just thought it
(39:03):
was just, you know, he, his
last. That was one lesson that, you know,
he seemed to. He gotten over, but at the end of the
day, you know, he
forgot it.
>> Sarah (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I agree.
Like 90 of this episode is really good
writing because it's about Billy and because
it's. Again, the flashbacks are
doing a lot of contextualizing and make sense
and you do, you do
learn more about paradise. And Even
(39:38):
though I just, I think
the whole, the whole
six, months surface
exploration thing. Yeah,
I just again, I felt like I was a little.
I was too, too far ahead
of the writing and like,
(40:00):
like I put together the pieces way not
when I should have on, on how that
unfolded. Because essentially what happens is we
learn that six months and they, they
agree to send a group of scientists
up to the surface level. And
it turns out that they also, or
Samantha more importantly, sent Billy up there to kill
(40:23):
them.
>> Will (40:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (40:25):
And. And we also learn
that the surface is habitable,
have been habitable and
there are signs of life. But it's
been three years and because those people
died, everyone still thinks like that's
not the case. So hence my
(40:46):
theory from the get go. It was Xavier's wife
who killed Cal. I'm just, I'm just saying, I'm just gonna
keep throwing that out there because I know
she's alive. Like, this is another
thing that's gonna drive me crazy until
we see something where it's like, no, she's
clearly dead to me. Like, no, she's alive.
(41:06):
All the signs are pointing there that she's still
alive.
>> Will (41:10):
I won't go as far as thinking that she
is the killer, but I. I do. I do think she's
alive for sure.
>> Sarah (41:16):
Yeah. I just. I will. I
will say I don't think we've seen the killer.
I know it's not Samantha. It can't,
because Samantha would know who has. Like,
Samantha would know where the tablet is and she
clearly doesn't.
>> Will (41:32):
Right.
>> Sarah (41:33):
And so like. Like there are
clear signs that it wasn't her or anybody
who she sent. Like, she didn't
see.
>> Will (41:42):
I do think it's somebody. I, do think she's behind it.
>> Sarah (41:46):
Well, then why. If
she's behind it, then,
And, and you very well could be right.
Then what are we freaking doing with this whole investigation
storyline?
>> Will (42:01):
I, mean, that's the other piece. I mean, I don't know. Well either.
I don't know if she's. Well, maybe. Let me, Let me.
So I think one, she may be behind it. Or two,
if she's not behind it, there is some
things that is on that tablet that would
complete. That would completely
undermine her. Not.
>> Sarah (42:20):
I know why she wants the tablet.
>> Will (42:23):
Yeah, yeah, there's stuff up there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just. Yeah, I'm just getting it out
there for, you know, for our listeners. Just for, you know, I mean, I think
everybody knows that. I just. I just wanted to verbalize it. But.
>> Sarah (42:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just was wondering why you
think that she would be behind it.
>> Will (42:40):
just her motivations for setting up paradise to begin with. is
her own little utopia.
>> Sarah (42:45):
No. Right, right.
>> Will (42:48):
And maybe something Cal. You know, maybe they had a falling
out and he was gonna.
>> Sarah (42:53):
You're still working on motive. But,
but then why are we spinning our
wheels with this investigation storyline
if she's behind it?
>> Will (43:04):
because it.
Well, because, you know, they. The. The. The.
The COVID story to the rest of the people in the.
In the. In the. In paradise is it was
just an accident. No one knows that it was a murder.
>> Sarah (43:18):
Right?
>> Will (43:19):
So she's gotta, like, figure out who did it so she can have her
big. Her bad. Take it. Take out whoever actually did
do it so everything. Her whole. Her whole little
utopia here doesn't get blown up.
>> Sarah (43:30):
Yeah. And if that was the case, then she. She would have
been able to do that. But
I. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not. I.
I really don't think she's behind
it. And if she is, the writers have a lot to
work to do to make Me convinced that we didn't
waste our time with like a full storyline.
(43:53):
I understand her motive. I, I get
that. Like, yeah, she's, she's set
up to be the antagonist, but it's way too obvious.
It's way too obvious to be her. And it doesn't
make sense for all of this commotion
for her and Robinson to try to
find. Not. And it's not even about
Cow's murder. Like it's clearly
(44:16):
who has the tablet. So. And
those could be two different people. Like you could be right. She
could have sent somebody to kill Cal and then
somebody else snuck in and stole the tablet.
But. And and that somebody else is
Xavier's not dead wife. Just
so.
(44:39):
Oh my God. I, I feel like
because his wife is clearly not dead,
the writers have to kill off any like
bromance that's going on with, with
Xavier. So like,
poor guy. Oh my God.
yeah, so we learn, we learn through
(45:01):
flashback in present day about
Billy and to your point, why this
episode did have a majority of really
good writing, despite that line that I still stand
by and think is amateur hour. they did
an excellent job of making us
understand the difference
between Xavier and
(45:23):
Billy in paradise. And I thought that was
beautiful because Billy is a person
who in the real world
was, was in the dirt, in the
muck and the world kicked the shit out of
him and he was just scraping by
and life wasn't. He didn't have
a lot of stuff. He comes to paradise or
(45:46):
finds himself in paradise and to him it
is, it's like this is how the life should have
been. I have a best friend. I'm I can be a
stand in uncle for these kids. I can, I have
this girlfriend now. I have a job.
Nothing happens here. But
this is so normal. And I have a house.
Like when they did that line about the house, it
(46:08):
was, it was like you, you get it, you
understand? And they always mention like this is the
third carnival, which is an anniversary day
of paradise and a celebration day.
And Xavier always points out why Billy
is so happy. And it's because
like this is a life he only could
have dreamed of three years ago.
(46:31):
And he couldn't even want like in a
way, like it was so far fetched for him
to ever get there. So you understand
that and more importantly, you understand
why for Xavier
it's not. It's
because he is
(46:52):
stuck here
and still. And I loved how they brought it
up, and they brought it up as It's the
unknown, it's the not Knowing that is
the hard part. It's hard. It's harder to
grieve when you're still
questioning if your wife or the
person you lost is. Is alive or
(47:14):
dead. And that is
something. And that is why they do the, the
mission to the surface.
>> Will (47:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:22):
I will say though, that another
reason why these two
episodes kind of made, me take a
step back a bit is because
I watched a show called
Leftovers M and
Leftovers, specifically season two,
and arguably majority of season three,
(47:45):
did this, and they did it well,
everything. And
I, I don't want to come off as too harsh, but I'm always
honest with my opinions. I just hope
that this doesn't become a watered down
version of the Leftovers,
because Leftovers was all about
(48:06):
those who are left behind
grieving those who were
taken. Ah. And that
psychology of grief and loss
and also some of the uncertainty,
because in the premise of that show is
one moment, majority of the world
(48:27):
just disappeared, and it was all
focused on those left behind.
So to an extent, I
mean, I know the easier way to go,
it'd be comparing it to Fallout,
which, Which is true. I mean, that's. As soon as.
As soon as they're like, we're gonna send people to the surface.
And then at the end when Billy confronts Samantha and
(48:49):
she's like, well, it isn't
like, you think you want to be up there. Like, can you
only imagine what kind of chaos is happening?
And I'm like, well, yeah, I watched Fallout.
>> Will (49:01):
Yeah, I watched the Last of Us. Yeah. I mean,
fill in the blank as far as any dystopian show where people are
living in. Behind a hermetically still
bubble.
>> Sarah (49:10):
Right, right. So. So it's just.
It's so. But I,
I went. I think, my concern
is more of. About specifically
the themes of grief and loss that
were explored in Leftovers, that they
are hinting at here and they're doing good.
(49:32):
It's just, for me,
that that's, that's a high bar.
Yeah.
>> Will (49:39):
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I know you. I know you. That's
throughout our time podcasting together. I know that's a show
that, you know, that you. That you
use as a reference point as far as, like a high bar
show that, that you measure a lot of things against.
And so, Yeah, you know, I did not watch the
Leftovers, but, But, But yeah, I hear what you're
saying, and I, I agree. I mean, I think,
(50:02):
it is easy in these dystopian shows like this.
And when you. When you have points, as you just
articulated, for, them to go. Go that particular route.
But I will. Yeah, but, you know, but I guess. And
I. I guess with the, you know, given that
we have, you know, as we. As we have explored
tonight, at least two mysteries that we know of,
(50:22):
and now maybe even more given that
we've learned now that the outside world is
habitable, you know,
all, you know, what we. We. You know, I think
we got various threads here,
mysteries that, you know, we. We do need to, like, find out
answers to as far as the murder, as far as what happened
now, you know, Will. What. You know, Will,
(50:45):
you know, well, what's going to happen now with, you know,
with Billy being gone. I know they try to stage it to make it look like a
suicide, but, you know, yeah,
that's the COVID story. But, you know, you
know, what's, you know, what's Jane's role going to be
moving forward? You know, because now, you know,
to my crazy theory about maybe Samantha's behind
(51:05):
Cal's death, I mean, was she the one who did it? You know, so, I
mean, Right. Especially given that the cameras were conveniently
off, and someone came from the outside. So.
Yeah, so, I mean. Yeah, so I think the.
So I. I feel like there's a. Enough
there that will
keep it, you know, keep. Keep us engaged and who knows
(51:25):
what other, like, major characters gonna, like, get often. I
know we're running out of them, but, you know, we,
you know, we still have the Robbie that, you know, Samantha
sees that her usefulness is gone. You know, she
may take her out next.
>> Sarah (51:39):
Who knows her usefulness is gone.
I don't. I don't think,
Samantha's on a killing mission right now.
Like, she. If for her,
for her utopia to work, she has to have
people.
>> Will (51:54):
Yes.
>> Sarah (51:54):
She can't just kill everyone.
>> Will (51:56):
But everybody knows her secrets, though. I mean,
that's the thing.
>> Sarah (52:00):
But. But do they? Because, you know,
who doesn't? Xavier. Xavier.
>> Will (52:07):
Well, that's just it. So to that point, to
my point about the Robbie, you know, now that if
she just, you know, discovers
that Sam.
Samantha discovers that the Robbie and
Xavier did hook up. But even
though, I will say, I mean, Xavier really fumbled the
(52:27):
bag there with the carnival whenever they were talking. The
man has no game
as far as, like the. The next. The day after. I mean, come
on, really. You know, he was like. It was like almost like it's his
first time. But, Yeah, but, you
know, maybe she's Motive, you know, if, if she
finds that out that, and
she's given that Sinatra is already suspicious of
(52:50):
Xavier anyway, to like to your point, you know,
she, he's the wild card that she didn't plan for.
>> Sarah (52:57):
Right.
>> Will (52:58):
So, I mean there's any number of like, ways this can
go still.
>> Sarah (53:02):
So I think that's, Yeah, I just, I
just pray to God you're wrong. like, if Samantha's behind
this, I'm probably not be
watching season two.
>> Will (53:11):
Yeah, I, I, I, Well, I don't think we're going to get. I don't think we're
going to get an answer in season one. so.
>> Sarah (53:17):
Oh my God. If they, if they do not answer
that question by the end of the season.
No.
>> Will (53:23):
Well, well, well, you know, thinking back, what Folgama said, I did
say, I do think, if I recall the interviews he did about
the show, he did say he was, he did wrap things up. So
he will wrap this one mystery up.
>> Sarah (53:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, for some reason I
had it in my mind that a lot of the, what we're talking about
right now is not, I mean, I still
think that they maybe have two
mysteries. I mean, I don't, I don't really
consider the, the
actual event itself to be a
mystery per se because that's just
(53:54):
like scenery.
>> Will (53:56):
Yeah, yeah.
It's the definition of a MacGuffin.
>> Sarah (54:01):
Yeah. It's just circumstance.
And I, I mean, the only way
I'll allow this mystery about the cow
and more importantly who stole the,
the tablet is if, if
it by then we at least know who's behind
it. And by we, I mean us
(54:21):
and Xavier. I don't, I'm not,
I hope people can tell, by my reaction
to these episodes, I'm not a fan
of a mystery thriller
show where I as a viewer
know more than our lead
character. I don't, I don't
that it bothers me because
(54:44):
I feel like for when I'm
engaged in a thriller mystery, I
am putting together the pieces right
alongside the main character.
>> Will (54:55):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (54:56):
When I already have a piece of the
puzzle and
I, I feel like I'm like, oh,
now I have to wait for you to catch up. I don't.
What.
>> Will (55:09):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I'm just saying I'm there with you on that one.
To be honest. I'm the same way. I, you, know. And I don't
know if they're, if he's using the drama and the other stuff.
Fulgman, that is, as a
Crutch to. To compensate for
us being ahead of Xavier as far as
Salt is putting things together, so.
>> Sarah (55:29):
Right.
>> Will (55:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:30):
Right. So I. I do.
Even though it, sucks that
Billy's dead, I.
I do appreciate how they. They also
managed to explain to me and make it make sense
how Billy ended up part of the 26,
000 immediately within
(55:51):
the first, like, few flashbacks. I'm like, wait a second. Why did
Billy end up.
>> Will (55:57):
Seems like a dumb jock?
>> Sarah (55:58):
You know, and then. And
then. And now it's like, okay, so can't
wait to understand more about Jane.
but. And. And see where that came
from. I do think it was a bit over the top
when she's like, well, she sent the biggest person.
I'm like, yeah, you killed him with pills,
(56:20):
honey. You didn't, like, beat the. Out of him.
Okay.
>> Will (56:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Well,
maybe. Maybe emotionally, she definitely. Definitely
is a worse off person than
Billy ever was. But,
>> Sarah (56:36):
Right.
>> Will (56:37):
Yeah. we'll let it kill her. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe she's the one that
we get off next.
>> Sarah (56:41):
Yeah, well, but it
also makes sense also
her reaction, her. Everything we've
seen leading up to then m.
Like, because they
fully fleshed out Billy.
>> Will (56:57):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (56:58):
And then it was. It's like,
oh, I didn't. I didn't question
when they're like, oh, Jane's like that too. Because
I'm like, okay, I get it. They.
That makes. That makes sense. That didn't. That wasn't
like, oh, my God, I did not. It's like, no, no,
no. Because you contextualize this. This character.
Character. And now I see that they
(57:21):
are the same. Same. They
were brought there for the same
reason.
>> Will (57:27):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:27):
Yeah. Of course, she. She's very. Probably
has a very troubled childhood
history. All of that
to make her want to preserve this
utopia the same way that Samantha
does.
>> Will (57:42):
Yeah. Yeah. And also, it. Also another thing, too,
as. As you were. We were just talking about Billy and.
And Jane. You know, I think about that one
scene there. this is episode three or four. I
can't remember which one now, but where they were in the
call and they were talking and they were worried about the other
agent overhearing
(58:02):
discussion. Yeah, three. Yeah.
so, you know, because
I'm trying to. Yeah. Something was behind that
door. And so, you know, I'm one desk.
Again, there's another little element there that, you
know, I'm, seeing if. If
Billy is around in flashbacks moving forward,
(58:22):
you, know, hopefully we'll get some answers to, like, why. Why they
had that reaction to that.
>> Sarah (58:29):
I. If. If Cal can be in
flashbacks, so can Billy. I mean, we. We
watched the. The first six months of paradise unfold
through Xavier and Billy
becoming best friends.
>> Will (58:42):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:43):
so, yeah, I. I think. I think we're gonna
still see Billy. and. And
hopefully we don't get introduced to any more
bros, because Xavier
cannot have the best friend. No, we've established
this. They die.
>> Will (58:58):
They die.
>> Sarah (58:59):
Xavier, get yourself a T shirt. Do not be a best friend
to me. You will die.
>> Will (59:04):
Keep your distance.
>> Sarah (59:05):
Give your distance
only, ladies.
Apparently.
Apparently. We'll see.
Oh, man. Okay,
well, I think that's it for us tonight.
Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (59:24):
Yeah, you can find me on the socials
and tell me if you think my theory is way off base or too
obvious. At Will and Polk. W I L
L M M P.
>> Sarah (59:34):
O L okay, you can find me there, too. @ SJ
Belmont. Sjblm o n t. Please follow our
crew on X, formerly known as Twitter,
@CenanerD. On
BlueSky@CenanerD. Friend us on
Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at scene,
underscore n, underscore nerd, and visit our website,
www.scenanerdpodcast.com. but most
(59:56):
importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek out.
You're welcome.
Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with
me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will?
>> Will (00:06):
Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?
>> Sarah (00:09):
Doing M. Good. I'm doing good. It is
February.
>> Will (00:13):
Yes, it is.
>> Sarah (00:15):
It is my birthday month. It is Black
History Month, and it
is Valentine's, Day next
weekend.
>> Will (00:23):
Yes, it is. Yeah, it's a packed month.
>> Sarah (00:27):
It is, but it isn't.
>> Will (00:29):
Well, after the year that we. This, you know, after the
year of.
>> Sarah (00:32):
January, yeah, that's usually what happens.
January is a marathon. And then you get February,
which feels like a breathe. Breather. And
then you get March, which feels like another
marathon. However, with
March is this weird place. It's in a weird place in
the calendar where, like, you're through the
holiday season. Like, the seasons
(00:55):
are changing, but it's not quite April.
So it's just. It's just. Yeah,
yeah, but. But we're. We're. We got one month down,
Will. One month down. 11 more to go.
>> Will (01:06):
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Actually, happy February. This is the first
episode for February. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:13):
We, we celebrated, the end of the month
last time. Yes, we did.
>> Will (01:18):
Yes, we did. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:20):
M. Speaking about Black History Month,
though. M. So tell me about this
Black History Month weekly Spotlight.
>> Will (01:27):
Yeah, yeah. So, you know,
it. Given that it is Black History Month and just, you
know, and just all the. This world and the. In the
universe right now and then and just
wanted to, like, highlight some things
each week. As far as this week, for
example, I was just going to highlight some of the things that are coming in
(01:48):
2025 done that either has a black director
or actor or black lead. and it's
really just celebrate black excellence in film because there's just
so much that's out there. And just wanted to use
this as an opportunity to, you know, talk about,
for example, as we were right before we recorded, we do have Captain
America 4 coming up, next week.
(02:08):
And so, of course, you know, really
excited for this opportunity to see
Antony Mackie, you know, lead a film. I mean, of course he's done, you know,
you know, Hurt Locker and. And. And of course been
in MCU now for forever. But, you know,
really passing on the mantle of Captain America with this
character. We also have, Opus,
(02:28):
which, IO at a very. Who. of course, everybody knows from the
bear.
>> Sarah (02:31):
Yep.
>> Will (02:32):
Yeah. So she is, she is in. In
that film. it's, you know, it's a, you know,
Mix of fantasy site, horror. It's
also has a black director, Mark Antony Green, which is just
actually his only. His second credit. I was looking at his
IMDb. he did a short before. but
it's about a young writer who goes to a remote home of a
(02:53):
legendary pop star who disappeared 30 years prior.
And, Yeah. And. And she.
Apparently this character is coming back. So. So
that's. That's a film that comes, out March
14th. for fans of I.O.
from. From the Bear. we also.
>> Sarah (03:09):
Sorry, who's playing Opus in that?
>> Will (03:14):
I, think it's. She is playing the league. She's
the young writer who goes.
>> Sarah (03:18):
Yeah, but who's playing the famous person?
>> Will (03:21):
I'm not. I can't recall right off top of my head to go back and
look at the.
>> Sarah (03:25):
I'll look it up while you talk about the next thing because,
visually see who it is. And I cannot place
the name for some reason. And it. It's not. Is it John
Malkovich?
>> Will (03:34):
It is. It is. That's who it is.
>> Sarah (03:36):
Yeah. Lately. And nobody judged
me. Nobody judged me. They're both older white men.
Okay. But lately I've been getting Ben
Kingsley and John Malkovich confused.
>> Will (03:49):
Well, they've had long filmographies and. Yeah.
But,
>> Sarah (03:52):
Yeah, I've been getting a little confused.
And we will talk about John Malkovich in a
little bit for something else. But anyway.
>> Will (04:01):
Yeah, for sure. For sure. Yeah. Then we
have Ash, which is a film that's gonna
be. It's a. Actually gonna be on the streamer
shutter. but it's a horror film. And,
it's stars,
Daniel. let's see. Ash, is directed by
a black director, has a white cast, but it's a flying lotus
(04:22):
who's done a lot of work in composing and
so, this is directorial debut. So these are all
films that's coming up in 2025, March,
21st. we also have Woman in the Yard starring
Danielle Didweiler. who is. That's a
film that is, another black horror film. So I'm
doing sci fi horror, you know, sci
(04:43):
fi adjacent horror
films. That's coming out March 28th.
but, you know, of course, she's known for the Heart of the Fall,
as well as several other films as well.
Sinners is another film that we talked, about on our.
On my list of things I'm looking forward to in 2025.
But that's with, of course, directed by Ryan Coogler and of course,
(05:03):
Michael P. Jordan. That's coming out April
18th. also,
and then to close it as close out. As far
as projects m. From black
film makers, producers, directors.
Jordan Peele's returning this year with the film that
he's producing, called him. And
(05:24):
it's a. It's a mix of sports and
horror movies where you have a young quarterback
who takes up tutoring from
a. A ah.
In a compound with. That has a
grizzled veteran quarterback as. As his
mentor. And that's the horror film that's coming out
produced by Jordan Peele on September 19th.
(05:46):
So those are the projects. Projects that I was just
wanted to just focus on, you know, where,
you know, in 2025 that you know, keeping it. Keep. They'll
keep an eye on either, you know, going to the theater or all
streaming. Yeah.
>> Sarah (05:59):
Who's. Who's directing the. Jordan Peele
It.
>> Will (06:02):
Oh. as far as the director, it's
let's see. I know Marlon Williams is starring in
it. Justin
Tipping, who
directed Episode of the Chi
and also a film called the
Kicks.
>> Sarah (06:20):
Okay. Yeah, that's good. It must
be. It must be hard. I wonder. I
wonder if like somebody who's a
successful director and
then when they do their produce, when they're just the
producer role and especially if someone
hasn't done as much like
(06:41):
how much producing is mentoring
that director. Yeah, yeah,
very. It's very curious.
but, yeah, well, that is.
Thank you for doing that. and I know that we're only
getting started because it's literally the first week of the
month. So there will be more space spotlights
to come in upcoming weeks. But to circle back
(07:04):
around to old white men for
just a minor minute because
why John Malkovich was also like, as soon as
you said opus, I'm like, I keep seeing that trailer
and I see his face. And then I also saw his
face smack dab dressed up as
Gandalf in the Fantastic Four trailer.
>> Will (07:24):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (07:25):
Which. And. And I. I'm just gonna
give some insight during to our
lovely pre show conversation
where Will likes to sneak
in right before he hits record. It's. It's kind of
like, Sarah, I'm not gonna start recording
until you confirm this one thing because he knows me.
He knows I like to hold my cards to my
(07:47):
vest and I like to keep him on his toes so I
won't tell him stuff.
He's like, did you or did you not
watch the trailer?
And. And I know if I say no, he's
gonna be like, nope, we're not recording. You go watch.
(08:08):
He's done that before.
>> Will (08:10):
I have.
>> Sarah (08:11):
it's been very awkward, but we've
done it. So, So, yeah, I
watched the trailer and,
I enjoyed it because it's a true
teaser. True.
Sweet Breeze Easy
trailer. I still have no idea really
what the overall story
(08:34):
arc will be, but they
do a lot of little clips
now. Two things, though,
that I am going to be the troll
about is,
Ben Grimm was not working
for me. Was not working for me.
(08:58):
The animation in a lot of
the scenes, for some reason it just stuck
out too much. And I
kept thinking about it today. I was like,
it's weird because I've seen
three movies with a talking squirrel
and never questioned the
animation. But for some reason,
(09:21):
when the thing moves his eyebrows, I'm like,
that's weird. And I also think
there might be something. And again, this is
early. This can all be fixed in post. I have no
idea if this is actually what we're going to see
on screen or if there's going to be some
tweaks added as time,
gets closer to release date.
(09:43):
But I almost feel like,
because I. I've seen the bear season
two probably 20
times.
>> Will (09:53):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:55):
the voice of that actor.
Yes. You know his name. And I also know his name is really
hard to say, but cousin, you know who you are.
I. It just. It throws
me.
>> Will (10:08):
Yeah, it did. I. I was there
with you. I was like. I was thinking cousin the whole time, even
when I. Cause I. I did. I watched the trailer. you know,
I did. I called some of the, the teas
lead up to it, which I did a very. They did. You know,
Transformers 1 did this too, where they had the
whole pre show before the actual
(10:30):
trailer dropped. and so I did watch a little bit of
it. But then once I did watch the trailer, at the
first and when. When, the thing
was there with Herbie the
Robot and because, you know, with the sauce, I was. I
was just like, yeah, it took me out of it for. It did take me out. It
did. Because I did think. I was thinking cousin.
>> Sarah (10:49):
yeah, yeah, it's. It's. It's
hard. And. And probably because it's also
just his voice.
>> Will (10:56):
His voice is so distinct. Eben Baccarat, I think is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (11:00):
Yep, you said it. I'm
still on the fence on if I can say it. And
the other thing, because
I watched it and then I watched a few people.
Few reactions to it. and so the more
I saw it, the more I was like,
yeah, Johnny isn't working either.
(11:21):
I love that actor, I really do.
What I mean by is not working because this has
nothing to do with performances at all. I'm just talking
visuals because that's really all we got for the most
part is that it's
just the blonde hair and blonde
eyebrows and the
(11:42):
kid, he looks
very like they're trying to make
him younger and he, he looks more
boyish and it's just, I'm just
like, we all watch Stranger
Things. This
doesn't line up.
>> Will (12:01):
It's, it's hard for think for
especially, I mean, and once we see the film itself,
maybe all of these things that we're equivalent about will,
you know, we will disappear. Yes,
but, but, but, but whenever
they, the characters that they play. Because Joseph Quinn played a
very, you know, and think, like you said in Stranger Things is a very
(12:21):
pivotal character. And of course, and same
with Ben Graham's actor. Very pivotal, you know,
and so, yeah, I mean it's hard, it does take you out of
it. and I agree, I think both, in both, in both
instances it did take me out of
the trailer a little bit whenever I saw them
because I was so, you know, just identify with the other
(12:41):
characters that it portrayed.
>> Sarah (12:43):
And it's, you know, the irony, the
irony is that
like the third person,
the lead of this cast is Pedro
Pascal. We've seen him in
so many things and I'm, it's just like at
this point, yeah, that's Pedro,
he gets a pass. But, but they also didn't do
(13:05):
anything to really make him look
different. No, no,
no. So, so I think that's why
again, a lot of what we're nitpicking about is
mainly the visuals. It's nothing to do with
performances or anything. It's just
like what we're seeing and what we're hearing in these
brief clips. Like, I don't know if that's
(13:27):
gonna, gonna work out. The,
the overall package that they're selling
looks good and look thought
through.
>> Will (13:37):
Yeah, yeah. To that point. Yeah. I mean I think
for me that I just, I just love the crispness of it and
the, I got the retro, I mean the
retro future, retro futuristic vibe that
they were giving off with the 60s
alternate. Yeah, it, it nailed it. I
mean I was visually. It just color gradient, everything
about it. I was like, oh, I, yeah,
(13:59):
I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm. You got
me. I'm really Looking forward to this film now just
see that aesthetic.
>> Sarah (14:06):
Well, same person who did Loki.
>> Will (14:10):
Yeah, true.
>> Sarah (14:11):
That's true. Photography and set design and all that, from
what I understand. So I was fully on board
for that. The other thing, and this is my last
point, and it's funny because when
we say this is an authentic teaser, we mean it. This
is really what teaser should be.
watch this. And the Superman
(14:31):
first trailer, like, teaser. There's a
difference. And I'm
not saying, like, comparably they both do their
job, but Superman gave a little bit more away,
and I don't know if that was necessary. That's all I'm saying.
But so my last point that I
think is so interesting, and I wonder how
(14:52):
long it lasts, and I wonder why.
But we saw,
everyone but
Pedro use his powers.
>> Will (15:03):
Yep.
>> Sarah (15:05):
And. And I think that that's
just that, I mean,
yeah, we didn't see a lot of characters
or were teased a lot of characters that we're expecting to
see in this movie. But that
aside, like, they can hold back on characters,
I think it's more interesting. You're
holding back on your
(15:27):
leads superpower.
And I just. I wonder how.
Why that is, because I think they.
>> Will (15:35):
Feature his other superpower, which is his mind.
>> Sarah (15:38):
Yeah, there you go. There you go.
Very. And they're leading with that. Which.
Which is smart because he doesn't have the
best superpower in the world. Beta's
man, it's pretty
stupid. For the smartest
man, like, in the world, it's
(15:58):
pretty super. Super.
>> Will (16:02):
Yeah. But, yeah,
that's. That's the thing they let in. They were leaning into that. And
I think that was the perk that, that. Yeah,
I. I think that was the right move. Everything about,
like I said earlier, while we
were in our pre. Conversation about being a true
teaser, it really, like you said at the outset, it's truly
(16:22):
a true teaser. And it. And it. I'm
excited for.
Of the three Marvel films coming out this year, I mean, this is the one
I'm most excited for.
>> Sarah (16:32):
Oh, absolutely. I think you and majority of
the people.
>> Will (16:36):
Yeah, yeah. And I'm not even a big. I mean, I was. I'm not even
a big Fantastic Four comic fan. I
mean, so. But. But just as
it's, just again for this
franchise. Yeah. Okay. I'm like, okay, this is the
one.
>> Sarah (16:51):
Yeah. Yeah, it.
Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Yeah. We got
ways to go. But it.
I don't know, it just was
a good glimpse and a lot
of the stuff that
we were told, it felt like it was a
fulfillment of a promise.
(17:14):
now I know it won't be fully fulfilled until we see the
full movie and especially how that
freaking third act will go.
Honestly, a lot of these, in this
genre of film, it all hinges on how
well do you execute your third act, pretty
much.
>> Will (17:32):
And hopefully they, you know, now that we're deep into
the. Into the mcu, hopefully they have like, tweaked the third act
as we, as we move forward. So we'll see.
>> Sarah (17:40):
Well, and also, this movie is
doing a lot. It's got a lot of ground
to make up for, especially as we launch into
whatever this phase or
this next slate of films for the
MCU is. But. All right, well, we will
put a pin in that because we will return
in a few weeks to talk more about the MCU
(18:03):
with Captain America 4.
so until then, we're going to continue our discussion
about paradise on Hulu. I
hope everybody is watching it, just like we
are, because this is a spoiler filled
discussion and we don't hold back. And
so if you want us to ruin the
episode, then by all means. I mean, I do that for
(18:25):
myself, but I do encourage you to watch it
too. so
the first episode, episode three,
the architect of social well being,
Xavier seeks answers on his own and
cautiously turns to Dr.
Torabi. Meanwhile, Billy and Jane
(18:45):
feel the pressure from Robinson.
so I'm just gonna put this out here. I
did not like this episode.
This episode,
rubbed me the wrong way
and the way they ended it.
(19:06):
and then I
knew last week when I was talking specifically about the
pilot episode, I'm like, oh,
the bar is too high,
too high. The writing was too good.
I don't, I don't, I don't
know. I'm not off the train. I'm
(19:27):
still on the train. But
this episode, I
started to,
It just. I started to,
How do I put it? I was putting
together the pieces almost
ahead of time.
(19:48):
And when I, like when
I start doing that with this type of show, I'm
just like, oh, no, no, no. This is
not where I want to be. I want to be. I want to
be one step behind. I can't be a step in
front. so
that. And. And a few other things.
But, what are your overall thoughts about this
(20:11):
episode?
>> Will (20:12):
Yeah, of the four episodes that we have watched,
I will agree with you that this one was,
for me the weakest of the four.
and for
me, it was
more. The more interesting parts of this episode. For me.
Were the flashbacks than present day?
(20:35):
Because to the very thing that you just shared, which
is. Oh wait, I see where this is going. You know, I see
at the end of this episode that Xavier and Dr.
Turabi are going to hook up.
>> Sarah (20:46):
Yeah.
>> Will (20:46):
You know, so, so, so the things that were happening in
present day, really, you know,
it. Yeah, it was like, okay, it's kind of telling you
predictable as far as that piece.
But the flashbacks I thought were, were
strong, you know, for. And we'll, you know, we'll get into, you know,
deeper into that, as we discuss it. But that's,
(21:08):
that's just sort of my overall thoughts, quick overall thoughts of the
episode.
>> Sarah (21:12):
Yeah. And we, we can start with the flashbacks
because I honestly will just say I
felt like the flashbacks were just as predictable as the
present day stuff because I knew, like
you knew from the get go that
he wasn't speaking to his father. You didn't know
why, but as soon as it's brought up Parkinson's
and his reaction, you're like, oh, you sold him
(21:34):
out. Yeah, this
isn't a big mystery. And it's just.
I don't know why. I, I, I was
waiting the whole time for it to be
like, okay, this is what I think is going to happen.
They, they need to turn left. Like, where's
the left turn? Where's what? I wasn't expecting.
(21:56):
and that didn't happen. And so
I just, I mean, I felt like the
moments were sweet and it was
a, you understood more.
They helped. They did do a good job.
similar to the first two episodes of.
More importantly than the whole,
(22:17):
like, why. Why was it. Why was he
on bad terms with his father and what happened on his
father's last flight. It was more
about contextualizing why
Dr. Tharabi told him in that
earlier to say yes to that
question and during the interrogation.
Like, that was the whole purpose
(22:40):
of those flashbacks. And so I
wasn't. I don't think they were a throwaway by any
means or anything. That's not what I'm saying.
But I did think they were a bit too, it
was a bit too simple and straightforward
storytelling for me.
>> Will (22:56):
Yeah, it definitely, yeah. This episode, to me really just
sort of, sort of. If you look at it like a
coloring book, it was like filling it, you know, color in the
lines and contextualizing the
picture of like you said,
why she told him. Yes.
How, you know, and basically answering the question, how did
(23:16):
all these, you know, what's so special about the 25, 000 people
who got selected here because you know, the first couple, as
they were setting things up, you know, we learned, we know there's a
catastrophe. We know that
you know, 25, 000 can make it in here. But
then it really got into the why. You know the why whenever
she, you know, she, you know, basically
(23:37):
Sinatra, ah, had this plan
and she found, you know, whenever
she used Gabriella to
you know, originally she was her, you know, her therapist but also she
was going to be the architect for, for this and, and,
and, and you know, really we see everybody
has. As a role.
(23:58):
yeah, and we, yeah and we see
like the initial, you know, whenever
Hal Xavier basically became the head of the
detail, which you know, again just sort of deepens the,
deepens the
context and the relationship as far as, like
here's, here's why he became the head of the detail
and, and, and really expl. You know, we see
(24:21):
like, I guess we get some glimpses as far as
how Cal, Bradford, you
know, sort of makes, it makes his decision making
and you know, how he, how he is as a president. you
know, and that charm that we also saw in the second
episode, was you know, when he was talking to Samantha
as well. So you know, so, you know, it just sort of fleshes out
more about these characters.
>> Sarah (24:42):
Well, yeah, I think that
the, so to move back to present
day the social
architect thing and understanding Dr.
Tharabi more, was interesting especially
because we saw the extended scene
that we had seen earlier,
of Cal first meeting
(25:04):
Xavier. And it was in the pilot
episode, it was always presented, even up
until the end during their last encounter of
like why. Why did
you choose me? Like, I still don't
understand. But it turns out it wasn't
Cal who picked, it was Thorabi.
(25:24):
And I think more.
There's more emphasis though not on the fact that
Cal
didn't pick Xavier,
but Doc.
Samantha.
Samantha. Why am m I blinking?
Sinatra. But what's her real name?
>> Will (25:45):
Yeah, Samantha.
>> Sarah (25:46):
Yeah, Samantha. Yeah, Samantha didn't
pick him either. Like
so. So I wonder.
And I looked, watched that scene very
closely on her reaction and it
almost appeared like I got
the impression that maybe because
(26:06):
she had put Gabriella in charge, it
wasn't like she's not the type of person to put somebody in
charge and not like micromanage.
So I'm sure she vetted a lot of that
list and we learn more about people. She even
added so. But ah, from her
reaction to Gabriella coming in
(26:26):
There with that file, it looked like this was someone
that Samantha had not vetted.
>> Will (26:32):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:32):
And maybe that's. That leads more into
the kind of, I don't
know, I don't know how to
describe it. It's not quite
antagonistic, but the
uncertainty that exists between Samantha
and Xavier.
>> Will (26:51):
Totally.
>> Sarah (26:52):
for a few different reasons.
>> Will (26:54):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:55):
But. Yeah, so, so okay. Why did
they have to hook up? I don't. I don't
understand. I. Usually
I'm all for my fan fiction. we even
saw Sterling K. Brown, like, total
backside. But I, I.
For some reason, I felt very uncomfortable and I
was like, like, like, this is weird. And
(27:17):
this is way too fast for me to get on board with
this. I don't. This is it.
What?
>> Will (27:24):
Yeah. So I was wondering what the angle was too, because.
Especially given how broken
Xavier is about his wife.
>> Sarah (27:33):
Yeah.
>> Will (27:34):
That's why I just. That's why I just didn't,
And maybe it was just sort of the manipulation. This is
showing just how. Well, you know, to. What's with the
larger, murder plot
that's going on here as far as to who done it.
so I was like. I was like. So I was like, are they going that route
with. Well, no, I was just. I was thinking
(27:56):
of. Are they going that route with it?
Because it's showing how. How the Robbie
could manipulate Xavier. Because I
wasn't. You know, because I just didn't
buy. You know, this man is just
like. You know, he's. He's so like, broken
from. In some ways, as far
(28:16):
as, you know, he's angry because of
what happened in his wife being left out in the.
In the. Not being able to get to the mountain
and everything. And so I, I just. I
just. It just seemed very.
I mean. Yeah, I just. It just didn't sit right well with me
either.
>> Sarah (28:35):
Yeah. It just. So. So my
whole thing is. Because
this happens throughout the. Both of
these two episodes. it's. It's very
clear how much he was in love with his wife.
Still is. And even three years later.
>> Will (28:52):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (28:53):
And, all I. All
I. My. My theory is. And this is part of the
reason why I'm just not on board with that
whole. This whole thing is they're
setting it up so the wife is still alive, and then there's
going to be a conflict because he's kind of
moved on. That's. That's the thing.
(29:13):
And I'm just like, that
it's. You can't do that in the
first season because
if they do that. That pisses me
off because as a viewer
for the. For. For that kind, which. It
can. It can work. I've seen very few
(29:33):
shows pull that off.
but you actually have
to have spent time
with these two people circling
each other and then to come together
and then get that reveal.
Like, you can't do that in the third
episode when it's like, well, one minute
(29:55):
you're just saying, oh, I met him one time, and the next
thing you're. You're humping him while
you're whispering in his ear, I have a message from the president.
Which also. What kind of pillow talk is
that? Like. And they just
continued after that. Like,
yeah, it's.
>> Will (30:14):
It's like. It's, you know, it's. You, know, it's like the
COVID world. Everybody's broken. I mean, I guess after three years
being in the mountain and
thinking that everything. Everything
that you knew before, you know, society's
rules are now just broken. And. And, you know,
we just. We just got to make it however we go. But, you
(30:35):
know, but also to that, you know, as they were
Make. As they were making out and
with the whole, you know, checking for a wire and of
course, the electronic devices and going in the shower. So,
you know, you know, so I guess on the one.
I guess. I guess that's why, like I
said, maybe there was like, some kind of manipulation going on
(30:56):
or, or misdirection.
because just with
all. With all the things we just discussed now, it just didn't.
It just. Or maybe, you know, basically, you
know, again, they're just
freaking horny. And it is. That's the more they
spent time together. And the cat, you know, and the dance they were
(31:16):
doing throughout the episode, as far as, you know, her trying
to learn more about him.
>> Sarah (31:23):
She. She views him as her
ticket out from under Samantha.
>> Will (31:29):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (31:30):
So. So maybe I, I.
From that angle, I can see a little manipulation.
But at the same time, she, wanted
him more than he wanted her. So, like,
I. Which I don't blame her, but
she. She, like, came on very strong.
>> Will (31:47):
She did.
>> Sarah (31:48):
And. And that's another thing. I'm supposed to
want the female to, like, get her a man. And
I was like, I don't know how to feel.
This seems weird. It's just, I can't.
I. And again, it goes
back to my theory of where this is headed,
especially after the next episode.
(32:10):
But. And the editing. I didn't like the
editing in the end because it
was very clear to me, despite the
Whispering. But the cut to Billy
in the car with the gun.
>> Will (32:23):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:24):
Like, I just. I knew. I was like,
well, duh. He.
There's a crazy person on the run
in this, like, mountain
and Xavier still alive and
for a reason. And, yeah, if. If I
was Uncle Billy, I would have done the same thing. So
(32:45):
I just. Yeah, I.
Yeah.
>> Will (32:49):
third episode. Yeah, you know, third episode. Like I said, it was
the. You know, I get where they were coming with the drama,
and you're right. I mean, the issue, you know, with. With his dad
and the dad storyline, I.
I mean, I like the moments. I mean, it was very touching.
It's something that, you know, all kids have
to. You know, if you're fortunate enough that your parents get old enough,
(33:09):
you know, we all have to hit that. Hit that place
where you're going to have to, you know, do
something like what Xavier did, which was, you know,
to get him, you
know, get his license revoked, whether it's his pilot's license or
driver's license or whatever. But. But again, I
just. I. It.
(33:29):
I don't. I don't know what it.
I'm trying to. And maybe we'll get some context as
far as what it adds to the overall story. I mean, I guess it gave us some
greater depth as far as, you know.
>> Sarah (33:41):
What did. The flashbacks?
>> Will (33:44):
Yeah, the flashbacks.
>> Sarah (33:45):
Oh, the flashbacks were more about Dr.
Thurabi's reasoning for having
Xavier.
>> Will (33:53):
Yeah. Yeah. So maybe. I guess maybe what was.
Yeah, so maybe why. It felt
like, Unfulfilling. Yeah,
it just felt kind of like filler, just to, like, pad out the
episode.
>> Sarah (34:05):
Yeah, it. It's
hard. I. I can't. Like, we're so early in the
season, and I know it's a short season,
too, so it just.
I. I don't think. I think what I'm
starting to notice is some
patterns where I'm also
reading ahead, and I'm just like, well, if they
(34:27):
do that, then that means this, and if they go that
direction, I don't know if I'm gonna. Like,
you just. It's just.
>> Will (34:37):
I mean. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I like.
>> Sarah (34:39):
Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, this is a
good time to jump into the fourth episode because, like, these
two episodes do contextualize one another
because. And there is an
aspect of the third episode that we didn't talk about, but
bleeds right into the fourth episode because
Billy and, Drizzle.
(34:59):
Jane, Drew call.
like, we learned. And it's pretty obvious that they're the
ones who. Who cut the cameras
and We. We learn about we
Tennis night.
>> Will (35:12):
Yeah. Air quotes. We Tennis
night. Yeah, it was.
>> Sarah (35:16):
We.
>> Will (35:16):
Yeah, it was a lot of weed happening that night, for sure.
>> Sarah (35:18):
A lot of drunkenness, a lot of,
using cow's toys, while he's
asleep. does that make them dangerous?
No. No. Something else makes them dangerous.
but the funny thing is when that was
playing out during the third episode, I was like, what the
heck? That's so weird. And then
the fourth episode happens and we learn
(35:41):
all about Billy Pace.
>> Will (35:43):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (35:44):
during the carnival. and we
even learned about a little bit about Jane. But.
And it, and it makes all the sense in the world
for why. And the
writing of Billy from the get go
has been on point for me.
>> Will (36:01):
Yes, same.
>> Sarah (36:01):
And so this is another grievance.
Why do they keep killing the characters? I
like? Okay, they need to stop doing this. I
mean, I knew going in Cal was only
going to be featured in the flashbacks,
but now you've taken Uncle Billy
from me. Like, what the heck?
>> Will (36:21):
I was pissed. I was just like. I sat there, I was just
like, it wasn't, I didn't have the last of us reaction that I
had whenever we lost
some characters. But I was, I was
gutted. I. Because I really, you know, I
really liked the work that John B. Rose
is doing as agent Billy base.
>> Sarah (36:40):
and I was
mad as soon as he told him, yeah, I need one
more night to be able to. And then I'm gonna go. And I'm
like, dude, yeah. Why?
Okay, can. Can we just all take a moment?
Okay. Lesson as
a writer. Don't do that.
(37:01):
Don't, don't. I just.
That I'm sorry. I just want to get this point out
to m. Me that is amateur hour. I don't know
why they would have included a line like that. Because
that is clear telegraphing that that
character is not going to make it throughout the
rest of the episode. Like when. And as soon as somebody says,
(37:23):
oh, yeah, we'll do that tomorrow, like this very critical
piece of information. And.
And you're like, oh, yeah, you're going to
die. I wasn't necessarily expecting
Jane, but the longer that that scene went on, I was
like, oh, okay. And now more
importantly, it pisses me off because I
know something that.
(37:45):
About this society
paradise that Xavier
doesn't.
>> Will (37:51):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:51):
And so I'm just. For the rest of the episodes,
I'm just like, okay. So as a viewer, I know
this catch up Xavier.
>> Will (38:02):
I will say I didn't think it was amateur hour. I
actually thought it was damn good writing because it,
it was a per. It was a bookend to the beginning of the
episode about. Even though it
was a shitty uncle who was like trying to get the message about
never hesitate. Yeah, it just, it made it
to me. It made it to me. It was like.
(38:22):
Yeah, I saw the moment. You know, we, you know, we all saw
it coming. Whenever. Well,
he was going to tell him in the next morning. you
know, I was worried it was going to happen there in the park, like some sniper
was going to take him out in front of the kids.
that's what I thought. That's what I thought was going to happen.
but but no, but but no. I thought
(38:43):
that it was just, you know, the lessons that
Billy fault, you know, over, you know,
fault all. You know, from his
young, young days. Whenever we first, you know, when an episode
first starts and we see him
there on the hunting trip and stuff with his, with his shitty
uncle. you know, so yeah, I just thought it
(39:03):
was just, you know, he, his
last. That was one lesson that, you know,
he seemed to. He gotten over, but at the end of the
day, you know, he
forgot it.
>> Sarah (39:18):
Yeah, yeah, no, I, I agree.
Like 90 of this episode is really good
writing because it's about Billy and because
it's. Again, the flashbacks are
doing a lot of contextualizing and make sense
and you do, you do
learn more about paradise. And Even
(39:38):
though I just, I think
the whole, the whole
six, months surface
exploration thing. Yeah,
I just again, I felt like I was a little.
I was too, too far ahead
of the writing and like,
(40:00):
like I put together the pieces way not
when I should have on, on how that
unfolded. Because essentially what happens is we
learn that six months and they, they
agree to send a group of scientists
up to the surface level. And
it turns out that they also, or
Samantha more importantly, sent Billy up there to kill
(40:23):
them.
>> Will (40:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (40:25):
And. And we also learn
that the surface is habitable,
have been habitable and
there are signs of life. But it's
been three years and because those people
died, everyone still thinks like that's
not the case. So hence my
(40:46):
theory from the get go. It was Xavier's wife
who killed Cal. I'm just, I'm just saying, I'm just gonna
keep throwing that out there because I know
she's alive. Like, this is another
thing that's gonna drive me crazy until
we see something where it's like, no, she's
clearly dead to me. Like, no, she's alive.
(41:06):
All the signs are pointing there that she's still
alive.
>> Will (41:10):
I won't go as far as thinking that she
is the killer, but I. I do. I do think she's
alive for sure.
>> Sarah (41:16):
Yeah. I just. I will. I
will say I don't think we've seen the killer.
I know it's not Samantha. It can't,
because Samantha would know who has. Like,
Samantha would know where the tablet is and she
clearly doesn't.
>> Will (41:32):
Right.
>> Sarah (41:33):
And so like. Like there are
clear signs that it wasn't her or anybody
who she sent. Like, she didn't
see.
>> Will (41:42):
I do think it's somebody. I, do think she's behind it.
>> Sarah (41:46):
Well, then why. If
she's behind it, then,
And, and you very well could be right.
Then what are we freaking doing with this whole investigation
storyline?
>> Will (42:01):
I, mean, that's the other piece. I mean, I don't know. Well either.
I don't know if she's. Well, maybe. Let me, Let me.
So I think one, she may be behind it. Or two,
if she's not behind it, there is some
things that is on that tablet that would
complete. That would completely
undermine her. Not.
>> Sarah (42:20):
I know why she wants the tablet.
>> Will (42:23):
Yeah, yeah, there's stuff up there.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm just. Yeah, I'm just getting it out
there for, you know, for our listeners. Just for, you know, I mean, I think
everybody knows that. I just. I just wanted to verbalize it. But.
>> Sarah (42:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I just was wondering why you
think that she would be behind it.
>> Will (42:40):
just her motivations for setting up paradise to begin with. is
her own little utopia.
>> Sarah (42:45):
No. Right, right.
>> Will (42:48):
And maybe something Cal. You know, maybe they had a falling
out and he was gonna.
>> Sarah (42:53):
You're still working on motive. But,
but then why are we spinning our
wheels with this investigation storyline
if she's behind it?
>> Will (43:04):
because it.
Well, because, you know, they. The. The. The.
The COVID story to the rest of the people in the.
In the. In the. In paradise is it was
just an accident. No one knows that it was a murder.
>> Sarah (43:18):
Right?
>> Will (43:19):
So she's gotta, like, figure out who did it so she can have her
big. Her bad. Take it. Take out whoever actually did
do it so everything. Her whole. Her whole little
utopia here doesn't get blown up.
>> Sarah (43:30):
Yeah. And if that was the case, then she. She would have
been able to do that. But
I. I guess what I'm saying is I'm not. I.
I really don't think she's behind
it. And if she is, the writers have a lot to
work to do to make Me convinced that we didn't
waste our time with like a full storyline.
(43:53):
I understand her motive. I, I get
that. Like, yeah, she's, she's set
up to be the antagonist, but it's way too obvious.
It's way too obvious to be her. And it doesn't
make sense for all of this commotion
for her and Robinson to try to
find. Not. And it's not even about
Cow's murder. Like it's clearly
(44:16):
who has the tablet. So. And
those could be two different people. Like you could be right. She
could have sent somebody to kill Cal and then
somebody else snuck in and stole the tablet.
But. And and that somebody else is
Xavier's not dead wife. Just
so.
(44:39):
Oh my God. I, I feel like
because his wife is clearly not dead,
the writers have to kill off any like
bromance that's going on with, with
Xavier. So like,
poor guy. Oh my God.
yeah, so we learn, we learn through
(45:01):
flashback in present day about
Billy and to your point, why this
episode did have a majority of really
good writing, despite that line that I still stand
by and think is amateur hour. they did
an excellent job of making us
understand the difference
between Xavier and
(45:23):
Billy in paradise. And I thought that was
beautiful because Billy is a person
who in the real world
was, was in the dirt, in the
muck and the world kicked the shit out of
him and he was just scraping by
and life wasn't. He didn't have
a lot of stuff. He comes to paradise or
(45:46):
finds himself in paradise and to him it
is, it's like this is how the life should have
been. I have a best friend. I'm I can be a
stand in uncle for these kids. I can, I have
this girlfriend now. I have a job.
Nothing happens here. But
this is so normal. And I have a house.
Like when they did that line about the house, it
(46:08):
was, it was like you, you get it, you
understand? And they always mention like this is the
third carnival, which is an anniversary day
of paradise and a celebration day.
And Xavier always points out why Billy
is so happy. And it's because
like this is a life he only could
have dreamed of three years ago.
(46:31):
And he couldn't even want like in a
way, like it was so far fetched for him
to ever get there. So you understand
that and more importantly, you understand
why for Xavier
it's not. It's
because he is
(46:52):
stuck here
and still. And I loved how they brought it
up, and they brought it up as It's the
unknown, it's the not Knowing that is
the hard part. It's hard. It's harder to
grieve when you're still
questioning if your wife or the
person you lost is. Is alive or
(47:14):
dead. And that is
something. And that is why they do the, the
mission to the surface.
>> Will (47:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:22):
I will say though, that another
reason why these two
episodes kind of made, me take a
step back a bit is because
I watched a show called
Leftovers M and
Leftovers, specifically season two,
and arguably majority of season three,
(47:45):
did this, and they did it well,
everything. And
I, I don't want to come off as too harsh, but I'm always
honest with my opinions. I just hope
that this doesn't become a watered down
version of the Leftovers,
because Leftovers was all about
(48:06):
those who are left behind
grieving those who were
taken. Ah. And that
psychology of grief and loss
and also some of the uncertainty,
because in the premise of that show is
one moment, majority of the world
(48:27):
just disappeared, and it was all
focused on those left behind.
So to an extent, I
mean, I know the easier way to go,
it'd be comparing it to Fallout,
which, Which is true. I mean, that's. As soon as.
As soon as they're like, we're gonna send people to the surface.
And then at the end when Billy confronts Samantha and
(48:49):
she's like, well, it isn't
like, you think you want to be up there. Like, can you
only imagine what kind of chaos is happening?
And I'm like, well, yeah, I watched Fallout.
>> Will (49:01):
Yeah, I watched the Last of Us. Yeah. I mean,
fill in the blank as far as any dystopian show where people are
living in. Behind a hermetically still
bubble.
>> Sarah (49:10):
Right, right. So. So it's just.
It's so. But I,
I went. I think, my concern
is more of. About specifically
the themes of grief and loss that
were explored in Leftovers, that they
are hinting at here and they're doing good.
(49:32):
It's just, for me,
that that's, that's a high bar.
Yeah.
>> Will (49:39):
Yeah, that's fair. That's fair. I know you. I know you. That's
throughout our time podcasting together. I know that's a show
that, you know, that you. That you
use as a reference point as far as, like a high bar
show that, that you measure a lot of things against.
And so, Yeah, you know, I did not watch the
Leftovers, but, But, But yeah, I hear what you're
saying, and I, I agree. I mean, I think,
(50:02):
it is easy in these dystopian shows like this.
And when you. When you have points, as you just
articulated, for, them to go. Go that particular route.
But I will. Yeah, but, you know, but I guess. And
I. I guess with the, you know, given that
we have, you know, as we. As we have explored
tonight, at least two mysteries that we know of,
(50:22):
and now maybe even more given that
we've learned now that the outside world is
habitable, you know,
all, you know, what we. We. You know, I think
we got various threads here,
mysteries that, you know, we. We do need to, like, find out
answers to as far as the murder, as far as what happened
now, you know, Will. What. You know, Will,
(50:45):
you know, well, what's going to happen now with, you know,
with Billy being gone. I know they try to stage it to make it look like a
suicide, but, you know, yeah,
that's the COVID story. But, you know, you
know, what's, you know, what's Jane's role going to be
moving forward? You know, because now, you know,
to my crazy theory about maybe Samantha's behind
(51:05):
Cal's death, I mean, was she the one who did it? You know, so, I
mean, Right. Especially given that the cameras were conveniently
off, and someone came from the outside. So.
Yeah, so, I mean. Yeah, so I think the.
So I. I feel like there's a. Enough
there that will
keep it, you know, keep. Keep us engaged and who knows
(51:25):
what other, like, major characters gonna, like, get often. I
know we're running out of them, but, you know, we,
you know, we still have the Robbie that, you know, Samantha
sees that her usefulness is gone. You know, she
may take her out next.
>> Sarah (51:39):
Who knows her usefulness is gone.
I don't. I don't think,
Samantha's on a killing mission right now.
Like, she. If for her,
for her utopia to work, she has to have
people.
>> Will (51:54):
Yes.
>> Sarah (51:54):
She can't just kill everyone.
>> Will (51:56):
But everybody knows her secrets, though. I mean,
that's the thing.
>> Sarah (52:00):
But. But do they? Because, you know,
who doesn't? Xavier. Xavier.
>> Will (52:07):
Well, that's just it. So to that point, to
my point about the Robbie, you know, now that if
she just, you know, discovers
that Sam.
Samantha discovers that the Robbie and
Xavier did hook up. But even
though, I will say, I mean, Xavier really fumbled the
(52:27):
bag there with the carnival whenever they were talking. The
man has no game
as far as, like the. The next. The day after. I mean, come
on, really. You know, he was like. It was like almost like it's his
first time. But, Yeah, but, you
know, maybe she's Motive, you know, if, if she
finds that out that, and
she's given that Sinatra is already suspicious of
(52:50):
Xavier anyway, to like to your point, you know,
she, he's the wild card that she didn't plan for.
>> Sarah (52:57):
Right.
>> Will (52:58):
So, I mean there's any number of like, ways this can
go still.
>> Sarah (53:02):
So I think that's, Yeah, I just, I
just pray to God you're wrong. like, if Samantha's behind
this, I'm probably not be
watching season two.
>> Will (53:11):
Yeah, I, I, I, Well, I don't think we're going to get. I don't think we're
going to get an answer in season one. so.
>> Sarah (53:17):
Oh my God. If they, if they do not answer
that question by the end of the season.
No.
>> Will (53:23):
Well, well, well, you know, thinking back, what Folgama said, I did
say, I do think, if I recall the interviews he did about
the show, he did say he was, he did wrap things up. So
he will wrap this one mystery up.
>> Sarah (53:33):
Yeah, I was gonna say, I was like, for some reason I
had it in my mind that a lot of the, what we're talking about
right now is not, I mean, I still
think that they maybe have two
mysteries. I mean, I don't, I don't really
consider the, the
actual event itself to be a
mystery per se because that's just
(53:54):
like scenery.
>> Will (53:56):
Yeah, yeah.
It's the definition of a MacGuffin.
>> Sarah (54:01):
Yeah. It's just circumstance.
And I, I mean, the only way
I'll allow this mystery about the cow
and more importantly who stole the,
the tablet is if, if
it by then we at least know who's behind
it. And by we, I mean us
(54:21):
and Xavier. I don't, I'm not,
I hope people can tell, by my reaction
to these episodes, I'm not a fan
of a mystery thriller
show where I as a viewer
know more than our lead
character. I don't, I don't
that it bothers me because
(54:44):
I feel like for when I'm
engaged in a thriller mystery, I
am putting together the pieces right
alongside the main character.
>> Will (54:55):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (54:56):
When I already have a piece of the
puzzle and
I, I feel like I'm like, oh,
now I have to wait for you to catch up. I don't.
What.
>> Will (55:09):
Yeah, yeah, I agree. I'm just saying I'm there with you on that one.
To be honest. I'm the same way. I, you, know. And I don't
know if they're, if he's using the drama and the other stuff.
Fulgman, that is, as a
Crutch to. To compensate for
us being ahead of Xavier as far as
Salt is putting things together, so.
>> Sarah (55:29):
Right.
>> Will (55:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:30):
Right. So I. I do.
Even though it, sucks that
Billy's dead, I.
I do appreciate how they. They also
managed to explain to me and make it make sense
how Billy ended up part of the 26,
000 immediately within
(55:51):
the first, like, few flashbacks. I'm like, wait a second. Why did
Billy end up.
>> Will (55:57):
Seems like a dumb jock?
>> Sarah (55:58):
You know, and then. And
then. And now it's like, okay, so can't
wait to understand more about Jane.
but. And. And see where that came
from. I do think it was a bit over the top
when she's like, well, she sent the biggest person.
I'm like, yeah, you killed him with pills,
(56:20):
honey. You didn't, like, beat the. Out of him.
Okay.
>> Will (56:26):
Yeah. Yeah. Well,
maybe. Maybe emotionally, she definitely. Definitely
is a worse off person than
Billy ever was. But,
>> Sarah (56:36):
Right.
>> Will (56:37):
Yeah. we'll let it kill her. Maybe. Maybe. Maybe she's the one that
we get off next.
>> Sarah (56:41):
Yeah, well, but it
also makes sense also
her reaction, her. Everything we've
seen leading up to then m.
Like, because they
fully fleshed out Billy.
>> Will (56:57):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (56:58):
And then it was. It's like,
oh, I didn't. I didn't question
when they're like, oh, Jane's like that too. Because
I'm like, okay, I get it. They.
That makes. That makes sense. That didn't. That wasn't
like, oh, my God, I did not. It's like, no, no,
no. Because you contextualize this. This character.
Character. And now I see that they
(57:21):
are the same. Same. They
were brought there for the same
reason.
>> Will (57:27):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:27):
Yeah. Of course, she. She's very. Probably
has a very troubled childhood
history. All of that
to make her want to preserve this
utopia the same way that Samantha
does.
>> Will (57:42):
Yeah. Yeah. And also, it. Also another thing, too,
as. As you were. We were just talking about Billy and.
And Jane. You know, I think about that one
scene there. this is episode three or four. I
can't remember which one now, but where they were in the
call and they were talking and they were worried about the other
agent overhearing
(58:02):
discussion. Yeah, three. Yeah.
so, you know, because
I'm trying to. Yeah. Something was behind that
door. And so, you know, I'm one desk.
Again, there's another little element there that, you
know, I'm, seeing if. If
Billy is around in flashbacks moving forward,
(58:22):
you, know, hopefully we'll get some answers to, like, why. Why they
had that reaction to that.
>> Sarah (58:29):
I. If. If Cal can be in
flashbacks, so can Billy. I mean, we. We
watched the. The first six months of paradise unfold
through Xavier and Billy
becoming best friends.
>> Will (58:42):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:43):
so, yeah, I. I think. I think we're gonna
still see Billy. and. And
hopefully we don't get introduced to any more
bros, because Xavier
cannot have the best friend. No, we've established
this. They die.
>> Will (58:58):
They die.
>> Sarah (58:59):
Xavier, get yourself a T shirt. Do not be a best friend
to me. You will die.
>> Will (59:04):
Keep your distance.
>> Sarah (59:05):
Give your distance
only, ladies.
Apparently.
Apparently. We'll see.
Oh, man. Okay,
well, I think that's it for us tonight.
Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (59:24):
Yeah, you can find me on the socials
and tell me if you think my theory is way off base or too
obvious. At Will and Polk. W I L
L M M P.
>> Sarah (59:34):
O L okay, you can find me there, too. @ SJ
Belmont. Sjblm o n t. Please follow our
crew on X, formerly known as Twitter,
@CenanerD. On
BlueSky@CenanerD. Friend us on
Facebook, follow us on Instagram and threads at scene,
underscore n, underscore nerd, and visit our website,
www.scenanerdpodcast.com. but most
(59:56):
importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple Podcasts,
Spotify, YouTube, or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek out.
You're welcome.
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