July 23, 2025 • 79 mins
In this episode, hosts Sarah Belmont and Will Polk dive deep into The Bear Season 4 to answer the burning question everyone's asking: Has the critically acclaimed series finally found its rhythm again, or are we witnessing continued growing pains? We also share our thoughts on the 2025 Emmy Nominations.
Timestamps
0:00 Welcome and banter
2:30 Emmy Nominations
17:05 The Bear Season 4 Discussion
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Sarah (00:00):
Music
(00:12):
Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and
with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing
tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:20):
Doing very well, Sarah. Hope you're doing well this Tuesday
evening.
>> Sarah (00:23):
Yeah, I just got reminded that, like,
last week you were telling me about, like, the flash flooding that
was happening in your neck of the woods.
>> Will (00:31):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (00:32):
So. So yesterday,
now. Now where I work, and this
might sound odd,
but I essentially, our, our building is
essentially on top of a mountain.
And like, like, literally, like, it's
like we're on the edge of the cliff.
>> Will (00:52):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (00:53):
Okay. Okay. And we have been told that based
on how they designed the building and if there's an
earthquake, like, we'll slide not
forward.
This whole thing. It's the whole thing. But anyways,
so just to give you an understanding, and, like, there's massive
windows, and my area is near a window. And
(01:14):
to tie this back into rain, yesterday,
I kid you not for. For about,
like, out of nowhere, all of a sudden, I hear, oh,
my God, look out the window. And when I turned,
I was like, God, just
started a fire hose.
>> Will (01:33):
Oh, my gosh.
>> Sarah (01:34):
I. And I. I even said to my co
workers, I'm m. Like, I've never even seen
it rain this hard in, Juneau.
And Juneau's, like, known for its rain. It's like
Seattle of. Of Alaska.
And like, the rain was diagonal
because there was wind.
(01:55):
And all I could think is, man, if anybody was taking a
walk, poor them, because dear Lord.
But yeah, anyways,
so I just had that random thought that I wanted to
get out there. and there is no
smooth tie in to this or
Le Leg. Whatever. yeah,
(02:16):
let's talk about them ease. Because Will wants to talk about. That means.
>> Will (02:20):
Well, I mean, we, you know, we. We decided to, like,
jump head first into Superman last week. But yeah,
we. We did have, some Emmy nominations,
last week, which is actually a good lead into
one of the topics. Our main topic for tonight, which is
going to be the Bear, which, was
nominated for, Outstanding
(02:40):
Comedy Series, even though it was. Even though it's
not a comedy, but.
>> Sarah (02:45):
Nominated for season three, but whatever.
>> Will (02:48):
Yeah, yeah. Just so. Just so we're clear, as far as Emmy
nominations just for. To reset for folks. So,
the, the Emmys that were the
nominations that were announced last week is for the.
For the shows to air between June
1st of 2024 and May 31st of
2025. So, just wanted to. That
way you just Wanted to be clear for folks, you
(03:10):
know what the, what the time frame for, for the shows
that were nominated. and, and
yeah so that was a Sarah the Bear season three
which as we're talking about season four tonight. But
also in the comedy series
category, the Studio which we we we just covered
here on the podcast a few weeks ago which was, was a,
was a fun show. I, I really really really did
(03:33):
like that. glad we we went
checked out something else in Prestige TV on Apple.
Apple tv.
>> Sarah (03:41):
I think Hacks is gonna win.
>> Will (03:43):
Yeah. Yeah, probably yeah. Hacks or Hacks
or Abbott Elementary. I mean those, those two are
always seems to be the, the the sort of front
runners. and I know shrinking, I haven't watched it
but you know it's one of those things. I think this as far as the social media.
Buz class always
talks about that show.
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, of course we
(04:05):
have our outstanding drama shows which you know
several things that we have covered in the last year
we're on there of course andor the Last of Us
season two which you know I think that was
as much about reputation, the quality of
the season
to just, just being honest. But you know
(04:25):
the further distance I get from, from season two the more
I, I, I, I, I just don't, I'm just
not feeling it. but one show
that we both really really did enjoy paradise
was was nominated.
>> Sarah (04:37):
That is hilarious because you know that
the way you feel about the Last of Us is the way I feel about
Paradise. The further away from I get to it,
the more I'm upset about that show.
>> Will (04:51):
Yeah, well, yeah, well I know,
yeah yeah, well I know paradise is going to be a Comic Con this
upcoming weekend and I'm gonna try to live stream
their their presentation. So
so check it out. I know it like butts up against the
Star Trek one too. So I'm just like okay, how am I do this? But
I'll figure it out.
(05:11):
But all the shows, you know, I still
haven't watched a minute of the White Lotus.
>> Sarah (05:17):
Yeah, don't. It's so boring. So boring.
>> Will (05:20):
But but I know it has a little connection here to
to my backyard because due to Jason Isaac's
character had had a Duke University
sweatshirt or T shirt in that show this past season. And
it's funny story. I think the only reason why it was one of those things where
he was passing through the airport in Charlotte and actually I think that's how he
ended up with the T shirt. All right,
(05:41):
yeah. but, let's see. As far as limited
series or anthology. Anthology series, of course.
Adolescence and the Penguin, which were two things,
I think, as we definitely get distance from
both of those, the more I just appreciate both of those shows.
>> Sarah (05:58):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Will (06:00):
and then also as far as,
other quick items, as far as.
>> Sarah (06:06):
You go to the directing
categories.
>> Will (06:10):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (06:10):
Because when I was scanning the list, I was, ah.
Because I don't know how much people understand
that when you're nominated
for, and specifically
television shows, when you're nominated for like
outstanding writing or directing, it's not the whole
season. Like they put forward
(06:32):
actual episodes and so that's how you get.
Oh, yeah, go ahead and just pause on the
drama. I don't care about copy. because
that's how we get outstanding directing.
The Pit is nominated twice, Severance is
nominated twice, and
man, the Pit. It's
interesting because I'm pretty sure 7am
(06:56):
is the first episode. 6pm
makes more sense to me why they would do that
episode. And then.
And, or who are you?
Yeah, like out of and.
But I think for directing. Oh, no, they did that
for directing. What about writing? Did they nominate
(07:16):
that episode for writing?
or did they did I, am I remembering
correctly that it was actually the, welcome to the
Rebellion. Rebellion, which is the Mon
Mothma speech episode, right?
>> Will (07:31):
That's correct. That's correct.
>> Sarah (07:32):
That's correct. Okay. I,
I, I, I still think
that who are you
writing and directing, but I get
it. I understand why. I mean, there's not as
much technical writing in that
episode of who Are you, but.
(07:52):
Yeah, and then 2pm Sorry, I was
just looking at the. What the competition is
for the Pit again, which
I, I know I didn't talk a lot about the Pit,
but it's such a very
different workplace drama
that I've ever seen. And I think
for me, I'm, I wish
(08:15):
that there was more character development,
but I understand that
they were doing a very unique thing
where it really just felt like somebody
was documenting what happened in a real life
ER for a day. Yeah,
that's what it really feels like.
(08:36):
yeah. But, you know, I haven't watched
Severance Season 2, and I know it's
outstanding from what I hear. So a part of
me, even with these, some of these
nominations, whether it be
andor the Pit, I
don't know. I have a feeling it might go to
Severance for a lot of these, but we'll
(08:58):
see.
>> Will (08:58):
Yeah, it, Yeah, I mean, Severance, was
nominated for 27 awards,
overall, all shows. The studio actually, was
set, was, also a top nominee with 23
nominations. And the Penguin, actually got
24.
>> Sarah (09:15):
yeah, yeah, I thought
Andor got the most.
>> Will (09:20):
Andor got 14.
>> Sarah (09:22):
Okay, I, I guess I read that headline like, way
wrong.
>> Will (09:28):
Another thing about Andor too, is none of them, none of the
actors were nominated. It was all either,
like we discussed here, writing and, and, and
directing. And also a lot of it was technical
categories.
>> Sarah (09:41):
That makes sense.
Yeah. I'm sorry. I. I love them. but,
yeah, if. Trust me, if, if they would have
nominated, Cassian.
No, not Cassian. I'm blanking on his name. What's his
first name?
>> Will (09:56):
Oh, Diego Luna. Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:57):
Thank you, Diego. Lina. I would have been like, yeah, that's a
Millie Bobby Brown nomination for you.
>> Will (10:02):
Yeah. it was really, truly an
ensemble show. The more I think of it, you know, Stella Stark, if
anybody, it was really Stella Star Scars Guard.
And, and, Genevieve, O'Reilly,
to me, would be the two people I would nominate for that show for acting.
>> Sarah (10:18):
Maybe. Maybe it just.
Yeah, yeah. Or, What about
Adolescence? What episodes
for writing and directing. So,
okay, this is interesting. So they're just nominated for the
full season of directing.
>> Will (10:34):
Correct, Correct. Which I guess. Yeah.
Because I know there are four episodes.
>> Sarah (10:41):
But then why is the Penguin, like
two episodes are nominated? So they're just
doing. Interesting.
>> Will (10:50):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (10:56):
I mean, if it. Honestly, I love the Penguin.
We all know how I feel about the Penguin, season one.
It's great. It's great.
Adolescents better get something
in directing and writing, because
I don't. I don't care. And, and that
actor, that kid actor.
>> Will (11:14):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (11:15):
Oh, my God, the boy. the episode called the
Boy. It is such a. It's such a good
episode of television.
>> Will (11:22):
Yep. And there's there, There is adolescence for
writing.
>> Sarah (11:26):
Yeah. Yeah. And Stephen Graham, who
plays the dad in the show. Yeah.
>> Will (11:31):
Yep. Yep. And it's my understanding of. I want to say that the,
actor, the young man who did play the,
Yeah, he was Du Bois.
Yeah, he. I can't remember the boy's name in the, in the show, but he was
nominated because adolescence, got 13,
>> Sarah (11:45):
Nominations overall, as they should,
because. And yes, they did
the Cheat Code, but they did it to
perfection because. Wow. To
do a one shot. I mean, I did take note that the.
The episode of directing for Comedy Studios,
nominated for is the oner. And I'm
(12:06):
like, no, the best episode of that show
is casting. Okay.
Oh, my God. And that episode didn't even get
nominated for writing. And I'm like, well, you.
Because that was the best episode. Are you
kidding me? My God.
Jesus. Yeah. The promotion got episode which was
(12:26):
the first episode of this season.
It was solid, but not when you compare it to
casting.
>> Will (12:34):
No.
>> Sarah (12:34):
Like, Oh, my God. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. It's just.
I mean. Yeah,
it's tough.
>> Will (12:46):
The one or did get for directing. So.
>> Sarah (12:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I said.
And the bear napkins makes
all the sense in the world why. Why
they would nominate that episode out of season three. It
is arguably the best episode of season three.
>> Will (13:03):
Correct.
>> Sarah (13:06):
and, AO is gonna get.
AO I think
is becoming the new Peter Dinklage where she
will always get an Emmy nomination and probably a
win because.
Because in. For season four, she's gonna get
nominated for co writing the episode
(13:26):
called, Worms. So she's
already gonna get nominated for that.
>> Will (13:32):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:32):
I'm surprised she didn't direct that episode, but more on
that in a moment. yeah. I'm
glad to see that a lot of the shows
that as you like to put it it. Are
prestige television
discussions have been.
Have been nominated rightfully. So.
(13:53):
I hope they do the right thing and give Adolescence.
Even though it's a British drama, like, it's props
because I mean,
arguably it's been a while since.
And I know you're gonna remind me, well, how many times did you watch
the Bear season two, but
Adolescence. Within a week I had
(14:14):
watched those four episodes.
At least. I think three of the four. Three
times.
>> Will (14:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:21):
And then like all four of them at least twice.
>> Will (14:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:26):
It's just. And. And I still. Every now and then
I'll think about a moment and
it just felt
so raw. And I,
don't want to use the word like disturbing
in the most unusual way.
>> Will (14:43):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:43):
and horrifying in the most unusual
way. So I, I just.
The technical achievement
alone should just be a
sweep. But I also know that the Emmys
like, viewers. So.
>> Will (15:00):
Yeah, well, I think. Well, you know, well, it. They like viewers
and this show Adolescence, if it's not still
the top. It was definitely the top.
>> Sarah (15:08):
Yes.
>> Will (15:09):
series on. On Netflix for. For some time as far
as minutes watched and stuff. So it had eyeballs. I was just
talking to someone this week about adolescence, as well. I
mean, this is truly one of those shows that just,
you know, this definitely just sticks in the consciousness.
when. When you watch it and. And you're Right.
I mean, just all. All the adjectives you used to
(15:29):
describe it, are just on point there because it really
is, that. That impactful of a. Of a television
show.
>> Sarah (15:36):
Yeah. Yeah. And even though it
wasn't, for the most part, my cup of tea,
I would say the same thing for Andor, like, all the
accolades you give Andor. And I
know people who, like, love the
lore, say Andor is the
best Star wars television show and
arguably product that we've had in decades.
(15:59):
So.
And. And it's. And so it's
good to see, like, a show in that
genre, like the sci fi fantasy genre,
get accolades like this as well. Writing
competition, when we got the. The high.
when we got shows like Severance and White
(16:21):
Lotus out there. And, and
what we're about to talk about right now, the Bear season
four. I mean,
when you just brought up how my feelings about
adolescence. Bear season four.
Okay, well, we're gonna get into this,
and. And I've forewarned you, and you gotta.
(16:42):
You gotta watch me tonight. You gotta be
like, sarah, you're going down
a rabbit hole, and I need you to circle back.
I'm not gonna give away my overall thought, but
obviously I really enjoyed the season.
So, to. To break it down,
the episode that has haunted me
(17:04):
since I've watched it is the finale.
And we are going. I would like
to start with how the finale
starts, which is Sid and talking
about Sid this season. Because
this season. And my first question to you
to get your thoughts out there on it, Will. Is
(17:26):
about Sid and her decision to
take up Shapiro on his offer that
he made to her first in the season finale
of season three, to become
the head of his new restaurant. And
so for arguably like
eight or nine of the 10
episodes, we see her
(17:49):
continuing to go back and forth like she's
making small steps forward with Shapiro,
not really not telling Carmy or anyone else.
But you. You can tell it's weighing heavily on
her. So for you and your
experience with this season, did you feel
like they drug it on too long?
(18:09):
Were you suppressing. Surprised of the outcome of her
choosing to stay with the Bear? What.
What are your thoughts? And feel free to bring up
episode four, Worms.
>> Will (18:20):
Yeah. yeah, I do want to talk about
worms, but I. I will say,
I'll be completely honest. I was getting
a little worn out with how they
were drawing an elk.
>> Sarah (18:33):
Yep.
>> Will (18:34):
throughout the season, I was like. Because every time,
you know, because it. Because it was. It would
get to it, and. And she was Trying to
tell Carmy or, and then, or the others,
you know, and then, you know, something would happen
and then, and then, you know, Shapiro calls
Carmy and, and, and then
(18:56):
this, it was just so many things about the
decision and also
the you know, worms and also with her dad
and you know, they kind of, to me they
telegraphed that. So when it, when it was the hall, when he had,
when they had the, the call that nobody ever wants to
get about their parent, or any, or anyone,
(19:17):
I felt like they had telegraphed that something was going to happen to dad.
Just the way that she kept putting him off throughout the
season, in those early episodes. So,
so part of it was that, so that piece was predictable.
The, But I will say I was frustrated
with the, the build up to, and the
drone out of it that finally, when she does finally tell
(19:37):
Adam that she's not going to accept the
offer, it felt anti climactic to me.
>> Sarah (19:44):
So, yes, I, I
agree completely. Mainly
because I don't know if you had this thought
why it felt dragged out, but I was just like, well, we
know the last episode's called Goodbye, so
obviously she's going to take the offer and then season
five is going to be
(20:05):
like. I was like just waiting for that.
but before we get into more about that,
I want to. You brought up her dad having a heart attack.
Okay. So
I, I, I've rewatched this season
and so I've seen all the episodes twice.
I didn't think much of anything. I mean
(20:27):
she's purposely ignoring, ignoring
him. Very similar to the,
the fact that we're constantly reminded about how
Carmy, to pursue his dream,
basically abandoned his family. Yeah. Right.
So you, so I think that's why
they brought up that parallel. But when
(20:48):
AO is sitting in the waiting room with
Claire.
>> Will (20:52):
Oh gosh.
>> Sarah (20:53):
Yeah, now.
And I don't know if it's just me, but her
line delivery about
like he's always supposed to be here.
He, he's Parallels,
I swear to God in the exact same
way she gives the same, same line
(21:13):
delivery in the finale
when she yells at Carmy, but you're my
partner. You're supposed to be here.
Like. And so I thought the moment
I heard her say that it made that whole
line story, arc with her
dad so much more
impactful for me. Because then
(21:35):
it's like, okay. Because
another thing that we're reminded about this season
is especially towards the end is she
lost her mom when she
was young. So, so you.
And what we're reminded about in worms.
Like, her hairdresser is her cousin,
(21:57):
who she clearly is. Friends
clearly get along like part of the family
and yet also like, her
cousin is not afraid to point out. Yeah,
you're. You're kind of distancing yourself
from us to go, like, because
you're putting your work family above
this. So which,
(22:20):
which ties into her conversation
with. With, Donna
during the wedding episode about work,
family and family. Family
and all of those connections.
And I will. I. I had to. I made all
of those connections during my re. Watch.
>> Will (22:42):
Okay.
>> Sarah (22:42):
None of this hit me during my first watch.
But my point being is
that, yeah, the. The whole dad,
you. You knew something was gonna happen to him,
but I don't think it's about
him necessarily. It's more
(23:03):
about how that then
when you're like, it makes
her decision at the end of the day to stay
more like, okay,
yeah, that makes sense why she
would stay. I don't think it was meant to be
climactic. I think the writers just
(23:25):
wanted to make sure, like, you
didn't take it like Shapiro and being like,
well, that's a stupid decision.
>> Will (23:33):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (23:34):
Like, you understood her logic.
>> Will (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she totally
understood that. And Shapiro. Just. Just to touch on that
briefly. I mean, his,
you know, with worms and, you know, there were a couple
things with that episode. One, I just felt
like, you know, he was, you know, when he was trying to again
do the pitch as far as, like, we have a health plan and
(23:58):
we have all the equity in the kitchen, in the restaurant and
all that kind of stuff. But then the thing that also
felt kind of performative to me as far as, like, him trying to
relate was whenever she was like, trying to, you know,
she's like, look, I move. You know, I'm going to my cousin's hair done and that
kind of stuff. And. And then he was like, oh, yeah, I watched, Well. Oh, God, I
can't remember the name of the. The Good Hair. Good Hair.
(24:19):
Yes, Good Hair. And it was just so.
I. I just. It was so cringe to me when he
said that. Like, he was just trying to, To.
To relate and be all Mr. Progressive and all
that kind of stuff.
>> Sarah (24:31):
You. Did you catch the moment when she's
touring the space and he has on
like, this hardcore rap hip hop
music and she turned it to classical.
>> Will (24:42):
Yep, I did.
Yeah. It's just. I mean, that's. That's the thing I do appreciate
about how well written this show is.
those moments. And then, you know, and also, like, even with
with their cousin, you know, as far as the code switching,
whenever she was getting the phone calls and stuff, and she, you know,
and. And, you know, again, the show
(25:03):
always is so on point with their. With
their, guest stars, you know, having Daniel
Deadweiler, you know, play the cousin, of course, Robert
Townsend's back as. As the dad. and. And
so, you know, that all those. Those are the
little. The little points that make the show.
Even when I will freely admit it took me a moment to
get back into. Into the Bear this season.
(25:26):
but once I did, I was just like, oh, yeah, I remember. I love the show.
>> Sarah (25:30):
Yeah. Yeah. So sticking with Sid,
ah, we talked about her dad.
What are your thoughts about her conversation with
Donna during, the wedding
episode, also known as the. The Bears
episode?
>> Will (25:47):
The Bears, Yeah. Yeah, that was.
You know, I think if I. If I'm not mistaken, that was the first time
they've met, they've heard, and,
it was. It was a very. Those.
You know, this is why,
even though Donna grates on me as
far as a character, but the way
(26:07):
that she. That Jamie Lee Curtis and I.O.
did that just to perform that scene,
it just, you know, episode seven,
I know, we were messaging Sunday. I was like, yeah,
I'm thinking it's taking. It's taking me a while to get through because, of course, this, you know, the
Bears always got to have the big one, Big, big episode
for the season. but,
(26:28):
it was. I. It just
felt so authentic.
>> Sarah (26:33):
Like.
>> Will (26:33):
And in that moment with. Especially when they're talking about family
and. And everything about that scene, it
just really just, really just resonated because,
you know, because, you know, from Sid's standpoint, you
know, she's. She's probably, you know, she's. She's heard about.
About Donna and this. How destructive she is. Right?
And then, you know, from. From Car's perspective and the rest
(26:55):
of the. The bears. But whenever
she actually meets her and they have that conversation, it's just like, you
know, I think. Yeah. And
I think, you know, after. After it was all
done and. And all that, it was.
She's like, oh, you know, she.
She had a dip. I guess it
(27:15):
helped reinforce her decision to stay. To me,
as far as, like, this is the family I'm a part of now.
>> Sarah (27:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Because Donna
says, I love seeing the same people every day.
And this is in reference to when she used to work in the
restaurant the Beef. And it felt very
alive. A strange comfort. Sometimes your work
family is closer than your family. And
then a Or Sid
says sometimes your work family is part of
(27:44):
your family family and they can all be
a family together. And, and
it really is the moment like
I mean she, even when she, she's, she
gets under the table. I mean
she's now a
part. Like Carmy says at the end. No, you are the
(28:04):
bear and the bear,
there's, there's two sides. The bear, the restaurant
and the brazados, the bears themselves.
So. But, but also
at the same time that,
that conversation
is very crucial for us as viewers
(28:26):
to know like the next,
next episode. That's when Sid calls
Shapiro and tells him this is
off. I'm not gonna do, I'm not gonna do
this. He basically,
no, it's not that episode. It's the, It's.
I think it's okay. Episode nine,
in my opinion, is the finale.
(28:48):
Episode ten is an
epilogue. Yeah, I know. Hot take,
hot take. But it's true. It's true
twice. Everything, all of
the threads really come together in
that final In that episode nine. The
real finale or the real, like an
(29:09):
epilogue? That really
such wonderfully done. But I'm gonna get to that in a
moment. So my point being is that
like that helps us
understand what's going on with Donna. Because
in the next episode.
Episode eight.
(29:29):
No, no, because episode eight is
when Carmy takes the drive.
Episode nine is when he actually has the conversation
with Donna at the house.
>> Will (29:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because. Yeah, yeah, because. Yeah, because. Yeah,
he. Yeah, that's correct.
>> Sarah (29:47):
Yeah, yeah. Which,
and what, what I'm saying is like
after, right after these few words are
exchanged between Sydney and Donna, Donna leaves.
And in her conversation
in the ninth episode with Carmy, the first
time that they have seen each other ever,
(30:09):
like in decades. Years.
>> Will (30:12):
Years. It's been a minute.
>> Sarah (30:14):
Yeah. Like, and I just want to go
into that scene before we get to Carmy because
wow. Oh my
God. Talk about
like please give the Os or please give
the Emmy. Now.
(30:35):
that. That is just such a good
scene of
somebody apologizing.
But also, And they did it so
sly upon my
rearraged, I realized because the
way Donna apologizes to
(30:56):
Carmy for essentially his childhood.
>> Will (30:59):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (31:00):
He is very similar to the
way Carmy apologizes to Sid and
to Richie.
>> Will (31:07):
Yep. Yeah, I, Yeah, I picked up Donna's
parallels. yeah, I was just like,
damn, you know, Carmy and Donna are just two. They,
they are just.
>> Sarah (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Will (31:19):
And yeah, they're the same person.
>> Sarah (31:20):
I was like, yeah, but, but
they're the same and it's the same
tragedy, whether it's when she
apologizes, like, and she says,
I was hurt and I took it out on you,
on Michael and Natalie.
And then when she does that, I couldn't help him.
(31:41):
I probably made it worse. I don't know.
And I don't know you, meaning Carmy.
And. And you don't know me. And I know that's
my fault. Like, go back to
Sid and Donna, like the work
family. In that moment,
she's inquiring to someone she's never met
before about her own son.
>> Will (32:04):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:04):
Like, how is he? How is he in
this? Like, you work together, you know him,
you're invited to one of our family members wedding.
Like, clearly you know more about my
son than I do. I mean, he talks to you,
so you can just feel all of. Hear all of
(32:24):
that guilt and that pain.
And, and, and I love how
she's like, you see, I wrote it. I wrote it down.
And I, was so proud. And then,
and then he cooks for her. And
it's arguably, it's pretty much the first time that
we really see him cook in the season.
>> Will (32:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:46):
And. And it's just, it's so.
It's also nice. Like, I, I
can appreciate how the response,
A lot of response that Carmy has
throughout this season
to anyone is. I hear
you.
>> Will (33:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (33:06):
And I think that that, is. Is
acknowledgment of what was missing, like, specifically
in season three. There was so much talk,
but nobody was hearing or listening to
each other. which just led to a lot of
resentment. But.
>> Will (33:24):
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that was. Yeah, yeah,
that was. Yeah. I mean that. This was. I mean this, this
season definitely was like,
followed up on.
It was a. Well,
I'll put a pin in that. Let's just move. Let's. one last thing about,
Sydney before we move on to Carmy. But also, you know,
(33:45):
and her decision and really what the thing
really, worked for me so well, was her conversation with
tj. Her. You know, because
with the whole thing with her, with her, she
ended up because her cousin, like, ran
out of, you know, braids for her for,
for while she was doing her hair, so she had to run out. But
(34:07):
I just really. This. That
worms has set up so many things for this
season. and, and so, and.
And the whole conversation about this, you know, the slumber party
and you know, her little cousin, you know, having to go to,
you know, this, you know, the school and you know,
you know, obviously using the, the school
Situation as a parallel between the two restaurants. I mean, it's
(34:29):
just. It was just so well done. And it was just sort of, you know, and just
Sydney just basically talking out loud. Her. Her.
You know, her. Well,
she was feeling internally with her little cousin to. To
help her, help her make the decision. So after
watching. After watching Worms, I. I
felt like she was going to stay at the Bear. And then
that's what got me so frustrated when I felt
(34:52):
like it was just getting dragged
out over the course of the seasons. Like, just. Just tell us already.
Just tell everyone already.
>> Sarah (35:00):
Right, right, right.
so. So. So now then to move on to Carmy.
Carmy, like
the. The Bear, as in the restaurant
guilt he deals with this season.
because essentially it's
very, very clear that their
(35:23):
failure, all of
the holes in the parachute, are his fault.
Or at least 75%.
and. And you can see him internalizing that.
and it also feels like rejection. Like suddenly
even his restaurant family is
(35:44):
rejecting him, similarly to
how he must have felt like as a
child and being rejected from his own family,
and being casted as an as. As an outside
cider, which. So.
So he. He makes a bunch of changes pretty,
early on where he quits cigarettes,
(36:05):
he apologizes to declare.
And, And this all happens really
in episode three. And at the end of
the episode, after his conversation with Claire,
he calls Pete and makes a change to the
contract. But we don't know what that
change is.
>> Will (36:24):
Correct.
>> Sarah (36:25):
Until the finale, which. Well,
until episode nine, where Sid
learns that he is removing
himself as a partner.
so he's basically quitting the restaurant, or as
Sid likes to put it, all restaurants.
but. And I think that decision
(36:48):
came also, came
from a brief conversation that he has
with Tina where she says,
I can feel you chasing something, like you're
fixating on something, but I just want you
to know you're the.
>> Will (37:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:07):
And I think it's that moment where he
realizes, like, yeah, he is
chasing a star, but really what
he's chasing is
he's trying to make.
He's trying. He's trying to be like,
okay, I did leave. I did conquer
(37:29):
this industry. I got a star.
So me not being there for my
brother and
not, not, not
like, not just not being there.
Yeah, like all that guilt is worth it.
You know, it's kind of, helping him
(37:50):
erase that guilt. And. And so
he has to deal with that, but he can only deal with that
by, like, removing himself from the
restaurant. I also think it's Interesting
how? How,
in a way. And he admits it
when he finally gives them a
(38:10):
fixed menu. so no more
chaos menu. And he says, I was doing
that to test myself. Like, it was
a very selfish thing to, like, to prove
to myself and so to improve my
skills. Flashback to
season two, still the best
(38:30):
season of the Bear.
>> Will (38:32):
Yep.
>> Sarah (38:33):
where we have many episodes,
and Carmy is actually the
one who is taking
this group of people, whether it be Tina, whether it be
Marcus, whether it be Richie, whether it be Sid and all
of the others, and uplifting them and
saying, no, no, no, we're done with the beef.
(38:53):
This is the new standard. And we've
seen. And through that season and arguably
last season, and now here, you can see
all of them have actually
risen and met that potential.
But there's a disconnect for Carmy
because it's like, okay, you guys have met
(39:14):
me where I'm at, but I
don't know how to.
I don't know how to keep climbing for myself.
Yeah. So which. Which is a very,
interesting thing because it's like, okay, did he
plateau? is it. Does it go back to
that conversation Luca has with Tina about
(39:34):
pressure, and Carmy just doesn't know how to live
without the pressure.
>> Will (39:39):
Yeah. Yeah. That was a very telling conversation that Tina
and. And Luca had about pressure and
stuff. And. And. And. And. And
I think. And especially when you connect it to
Carmi's comment in the finale where he's
like, you know, I don't love this anymore. And.
And it was a computer. Who was it? I'm trying to remember.
(40:00):
Because in the. In the. In
the show, you know, computer asked the question,
why are you doing this?
>> Sarah (40:08):
Yeah.
>> Will (40:11):
And. And it was. And it was also. And I know when I watched the
finale, there was a callback. It was an earlier episode in
the season. I don't know if it was with Jim. Oh, was it with Uncle Jimmy
at the.
>> Sarah (40:23):
Sorry, what's the question?
>> Will (40:25):
Oh, the question is. So when Carmy says,
you know, he doesn't love it anymore. Love
the restaurant and the cooking and everything in the finale
there. So there was earlier in the season. I can't remember if
it was Uncle Jim. Uncle Lee. Excuse me.
Not Jimmy.
>> Sarah (40:42):
Uncle.
>> Will (40:42):
Lee. at the wedding or
whatever they were.
>> Sarah (40:47):
Yeah, I know what you're. I know what you're talking about.
It's a reference to the first
episode of the season where Natalie
tells him. That's it. Well, it's not the first
episode. I think it's, like the third episode.
But she tells him it's okay if
you no longer love it. And it's right after
(41:07):
she references.
>> Will (41:09):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (41:10):
Dropping him off at the train station to go to the train station.
>> Will (41:13):
Yes.
>> Sarah (41:14):
Which is a flashback that we see at the beginning of
episode. Or, season three.
>> Will (41:18):
Yeah, that's. That's. That's. That's exactly what I.
Yeah, because I remember it was earlier in the season. I know I wasn't making it up.
I just couldn't. I just couldn't remember which character brought
it up. But I just felt those parallel. That, that.
That statement at the beginning of the season and then what he
says at the end. but I don't.
>> Sarah (41:35):
I don't think it's because
she also says it's okay
if you no longer love it, because the best
part is you were capable of that love.
Like the same thing with Claire. I mean,
this season, there's so much time where Carmy
clearly is still in love with Claire, but
(41:56):
they have that very.
That in that conversation where he finally
apologizes, but.
And then by the end of it, he brings back the
sweater, but they're still not together.
Like, he's capable of love with
Claire. He's capable of love with the
(42:16):
restaurant, but at the end of the day,
he hasn't. He hasn't
figured out this guilt or
even. Or grief.
>> Will (42:30):
And.
>> Sarah (42:30):
And. And I think. I think the more
true statement for him in that finale
is when he. When he says, I don't know who I
am outside of the restaurant.
>> Will (42:42):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (42:43):
Like. And. But then again,
it's. The restaurant's called the Bear, and the brazados
are the Bear. So it's kind of
like. Or do. Like. I don't
know. There's something also there. There's a. There's
a layer there where I almost want
to say by. By Carmy removing
(43:04):
himself from the restaurant. I'm not sure if
that's breaking a pattern as much as he
thinks it is, because it's. The breaking of patterns
is a conversation that he has with Uncle Lee
at the wedding.
>> Will (43:17):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean,
to me, I. So I felt
like we. Carmy, this season made progress,
but it wasn't growth. But you get what I'm saying.
I mean, he's making some progress. Like you said, he's able to
apologize. He's trying to, you know, he's. He's taking the
steps to make him, you know, to. To try to.
(43:40):
To help you to. To men, relationships.
And. And, But, But.
But to me, when I was watching the finale, I was Just like,
it's him stepping away from the restaurant just, just
to. Just going back to what. What's in his
personality DNA, which is like, whenever things
get tough and as Richie calls him out on it, you know,
(44:02):
good battery in between, you know, he, He, He. He leaves the
situation. I mean, part of him going off to be
this master chef not only was to challenge himself and
everything, but also, I think was to get away from that chaos with
Donna and everything with the family and now.
>> Sarah (44:16):
Exactly.
>> Will (44:17):
Yeah. so to your, to your point is like, is this, Is
this. Is this him
breaking away, leaving the restaurant, even though he's
like, you know, and it's interesting how he defined leaving.
He's like, no, no, I'm not leaving an alert room. I'm going to get things
in the black here. But, but, you
know, is, Is he. Is he reverting back to what he, what
(44:39):
he knows and what he's comfort. His comfort zone. Especially
when you think about, you know, the wedding
episode, which I know you made such a great point, in our notes
as far as how pivotal that episode is, because they talk about
fear and you go around, you know, and everybody's under
the table and they go over what they fear. And he, you know, he just,
you know,
(45:00):
he. He still doesn't. You know,
I just think about that, like, with, the finale, it's like. No, no,
he. He's still going through that
muscle memory that he's familiar with.
>> Sarah (45:12):
Yeah, yeah, he's.
He's just. He's running away from
his work, family now, because he doesn't know.
He doesn't know what to do. And
it. And it's also,
I think, another reason why that decision,
(45:33):
kind of le. Like a lot of viewers are
mixed on, is because of the trust, as
you pointed out. Like. But you also keep
saying you're gonna fix things before you leave. So.
So I, I can only assume we're gonna get you in season five,
and by the end of season five, like, that's the
show, but you're still gonna play.
(45:54):
I just. I just can't see him not
be a part of the bear or
even the beef. in general, it's.
But before we get. Go into that and
get into the Richie of it all,
I just want to circle back to his conversation with Uncle
Lee, because conversation with Uncle
(46:14):
Lee was one of the. Another highlight from the wedding
episode. And,
and mainly what I like about that
conversation is because it does bring up
what happened in Fishes from season two.
And, and that relationship that
Uncle Lee had with Mikey. And we find out that before
(46:35):
Mikey's death, Uncle Lee and him actually
became friends. And it was a bit too
late. But that's why Uncle Lee
doesn't. Doesn't have like, the same
guilt. And what I, What I also
will say about that scene is
it's another instance where
(46:56):
somebody who was around during that
period of Michael's life,
Carmy just looks at them as like,
well, well, what did he talk about? And then the
moment they said, oh, he talked about you.
And then he wants. He wants proof.
It's very similar to Richie in the finale
(47:17):
where. Oh, oh, you went to. You went to the
funeral. What was I wearing?
>> Will (47:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:24):
Uncle Lee, you became friends with, Michael, and
Michael talked to you. Michael
talked to you about me.
Tell me, what did he say? Oh, you. You
wrapped. You wrapped fish
in something and all this stuff.
And so it. It's just.
(47:44):
It's very.
It's like my. It's like Carmy, which
is the most frustrating thing about him,
is seeking validation from, A
ghost.
>> Will (47:58):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:59):
And it's. And it's. And it's very. And I think
that's. Like you mentioned it before, Donna still
grates on you. Carmy still grates on us
because we're
like, we. We want you to get better.
But. Yes, but it's,
It's. It's such a. It's such a, When you see people
(48:19):
in that kind of state. And,
And I think this is, kind of. Kind of
explains Sid's reaction when the
finale conversation turns into
Richie and Carmy. It's where it's just
like, okay, I'm just.
I can't do anything to help the situation.
(48:40):
So all I can do is just watch because.
Yeah.
>> Will (48:46):
How to smoke.
>> Sarah (48:47):
Because I'm, apparently not allowed to leave, according to
Richie and, And. And
Michael of it all. Like, Michael
starts off this season,
it's the only flashback we get of him with,
John Bernthal. and they're.
They're making sauce. You know,
(49:08):
and it reminds me of the first season
and where Carmy has to make
sauce for the.
The family dinner, which is the
bear family dinner. I forget what they call
it in a restaurant. They call it something. And,
And there's a back and forth with. With Richie about
(49:29):
it and because he's like, we're spending way
too much money on the sauce.
>> Will (49:34):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (49:35):
but it, it also ties into what you brought up
before with, like, the falling out of love of
kitchen, of, of
cooking, of the job. Like,
you have to, you have to love it. You have
to, you have to care about it.
So if you lose it then,
(49:55):
like, because
Michael, complains about how he lost his job.
Ah. As being a car salesman or
in a rental car. And Carme's first question is,
well, did you love it?
So.
>> Will (50:11):
Yes.
>> Sarah (50:13):
Yeah.
>> Will (50:13):
That's a theme that just recurs throughout,
throughout this season. you know, with, with.
With our, with our characters. And
Yeah. And you know, I think with the whole. With,
with losing the passion. You know, this is
especially something like being a world class chef. And I think
about Sydney talking, you know, whenever she shares a story about how
(50:34):
she goes to New York, you know, to like eat and
car, you know, to eat in Carmen's restaurant. So she has that
passion and she still has that passion even after all that
that's transpired. and
she still, you know, she still has that love
for this. And I think Carmy, you know, and the sad
thing is Carmy recognizes it in other people,
(50:54):
but, you know, but he just doesn't recognize those,
those great qualities about himself. which is,
which, which is really just makes. It breaks my heart
for the character.
>> Sarah (51:04):
Right. Right. He.
It's. It's very, it's very hard because like, as
you put it, there was growth,
but there's also still a little bit of
stagnation because. And why I
love the finale so much is because we're finally having
conversations that I've been waiting
(51:24):
two seasons for these people to have.
Okay. Two seasons
specifically. And this leads me to Richie because
like, I love how you get a good
15 minutes with just Carmy and Sid and
then Richie comes in and then it's about
the funeral that. And we. And and I can
(51:46):
appreciate that they made sure that the viewers
knew that Carmy wasn't lying.
Like he did go to the funeral. Uncle Lee has
confirmed it, but nobody else saw
him. And he did leave because it's
Carmy and he couldn't handle it because of the
guilt. But throughout the season
(52:06):
we also get many instances,
leading up to this moment where
Rich. Richie is still holding on to some things.
And, and through Jessica,
who was hired at the beginning of the season,
previously seen in season two,
(52:26):
we, we learn that,
that Richie,
Richie has always been envious
of Carmy because
at the end of the day
Carmy is still blood.
And Richie can be called cousin.
(52:48):
Richie can be the sand which. Such a
grid line.
He, he can be, he can be all those things,
but he will never be Mikey or
Natalie's true sibling. He will never be
Donna's child.
>> Will (53:03):
Right.
>> Sarah (53:04):
And that resentment,
I, I, I think why
this touches particular,
this speaks, to me is because
I deal with a similar
thing with one of my siblings,
(53:26):
and arguably all of my siblings because
we all have our own lives, but then again,
we grew up in the same house, so we have that history.
But there are people that I know,
know my, my brothers more than me.
And, and when I encounter
(53:47):
them, it is kind of this feeling like,
but you're the stranger. Like I should
know this, you shouldn't know this. And,
and it's a very, it's a very fine line,
but it's beautifully captured in this
conversation where, where we finally get
acknowledgment between Richie and
(54:07):
Carmy of their,
the resentment towards each other.
>> Will (54:13):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (54:14):
For just being who they are.
>> Will (54:16):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Yeah. I mean that, yeah, that, yeah, I mean that's,
that's the thing about, to your point about the, the, the, the
finale really was almost like a bottle episode that
even though it was technically the tenth episode of the season, it was
like it was a bottle episode for as
far as the last episode for the season because all
(54:37):
the, everything really,
all the major beats for the characters were all wrapped
up as far as the rest of the ensemble in
episode nine. But with this finale, you
know, it really, you know, because the bear really has become sort of
a core between Richie,
Sydney and, and Karmi
(54:59):
M. And, and so, you know, so for that
final episode to really focus on the three of them, you know, and
of course Natalie shows up at the end too. But I mean,
they are sort of that core because when I think about Richie
when we first met him in season one versus the Richie that
we see now, you know, to your, you
mentioned earlier how like all these other characters have like,
(55:20):
you know, you know, currently believed in them, mentored
them in his own, you know, no non
negotiables way, but
they have come together and coalesced. But now that, you know,
Richie now like owns that front staff. I mean he is, you
know, whenever, whatever at the end of the
episode, in episode 10 where, you know,
when Sid, when they, when he is just as much of
(55:43):
the bear as anybody else and when they
all made that offer to like, Sid made that
offer and, and Carm to like
make him that other partner, I mean, it
made sense. I mean that that whole thing made sense as
far as that, as far as where, where they landed with
that scene and, and the decisions. And I believe you know, and I
(56:03):
believed it because he really is that. That ex. That. That other
character. And I really like the moments that Richie
and Sydney had throughout the season. Like, you know, again, the
wedding, you know, he's out there having panic attacks prior to.
Prior to Tiff's wedding and, and you
know, you know, quoting Philip a dick and everything and
quotes and it's just. But, you know, you know,
(56:24):
thank instead for being there and then. And just other.
You know, they just all really. They are like. Like
you said, they really are family. Family. Not just work family.
>> Sarah (56:34):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the.
With Richie this season,
through him, through Tiff
Tiffany, who is his ex wife,
who then her own mom doesn't
go to her wedding. None of her family goes to the wedding. Who
goes to the wedding? The brazados. But
(56:55):
when we say the brazados, we don't forget the
facts. Facts are there too. Don't forget
all of these other people. I mean, Marcus even
attends when he's the guest of someone
else who, who, Frank fired
and Frank is Tiffany's new husband.
So. And, and
(57:15):
I think they did such a good job
this season, particularly
about the Brazo family tree,
because we hear about it in
the wedding episode when
Claire and I forget his
name. One of the. The person
who's married to Sarah Paulson's character.
>> Will (57:38):
Stevie.
>> Sarah (57:39):
Stevie are, telling Frank
the family tree.
>> Will (57:45):
Yep.
>> Sarah (57:46):
Who people are. And it's
just. And. And you have to realize
Claire isn't a part of the family.
>> Will (57:54):
Nope.
>> Sarah (57:55):
And. And as. As, as Stevie
likes to point out, he's married into it
through like a second cousin adopted
twice removed. And then you have Richie
and, and, And Tiff,
who Tiffany herself, like her
dance with Uncle Jimmy.
(58:16):
It's so sweet because he,
he again in that moment,
basically reassures her that, like, it
doesn't matter if you are no longer married to
Richie. I mean, Richie's not even a part of our family
either.
>> Will (58:32):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:32):
For some reason we've adopted all of
these people. And. And then later
you get. You get Jessica throughout
the season inquiring about who people are.
There's a great moment wherein Natalie brings
Sophie into the kitchen. And,
there's conversations about attending the wedding and
(58:53):
all of these name drops and the. There's some
employees who don't know that. Who these
people are. And there's others who's like, yeah,
that's the second cousin of this person twice
removed. And it's.
It is a family. Family, but it's
just the world,
(59:15):
you know?
>> Will (59:16):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (59:17):
And, And I can. I think why
I like it so much is I honestly
don't know the details. Like, it's this weird
thing where, where I
see. Still haven't really gotten the full
PowerPoint on exactly who these
people are, nor do I care.
>> Will (59:36):
Yeah. Oh, I m. I see. And for me, it's just like,
I, I, this is like my family. I have.
Whenever they're like, I hear uncle so and so, auntie
so and so, or, you know, and growing
up, the same kind of thing like that. How was so and so related?
So, well, no, you know, they may not even be blood or they'd be
married in or whatever. But I mean, it, it's so, for me,
(59:57):
it's just so relatable because it's just like, oh, yeah, I, I know
this. And you probably have, you know, maybe the same situation in your family,
but not really. Okay. Yeah, but I do.
And it's, it's like, I get it. So, to me,
that. I think that's another thing that makes the show work. You know, it is
relatable to, like, people. People we know in real
life.
>> Sarah (01:00:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Will (01:00:16):
And, and the craziness, because I have had the fam. I've
had. I've had like, the presardo.
Bizarro. Bizarro. Bizarro.
>> Sarah (01:00:25):
sounds, like you're saying bizarro.
>> Will (01:00:27):
Yeah, I did say bizarro. Yeah. Because, yeah, it
is that the bear family like, dynamics and stuff,
and family get togethers that, like,
devolve into that. I've been around it, so I completely get
it.
>> Sarah (01:00:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So you understand
what happened between Natalie and, Francie
Fact. Right?
>> Will (01:00:47):
Hell, I don't.
>> Sarah (01:00:49):
Yeah, I don't. You know what?
I'm. I, I do think I have more of an
understanding than Pete does.
>> Will (01:00:56):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:00:57):
The moment Pete's like, you slept together,
like. Okay. But. But I
love that there was such a buildup. And also shout
out to Bri Larson, as you mentioned earlier,
that they, they did get
some really good, like, the guest stars
worked this season more so than last season.
(01:01:20):
And, and she. I, I was not
expecting her.
>> Will (01:01:24):
Nope, me neither.
>> Sarah (01:01:25):
She did not stick out. Because if you were
gonna. I mean, we've seen that. Who's the
Rosado girl? So, of course, if we're
gonna meet the female version of fac. Yeah, I think she did
a pretty good job.
>> Will (01:01:39):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:01:39):
And. And that moment
when Neil, ah, tells, Natalie
who he invited to the wedding.
>> Will (01:01:48):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:01:49):
You will always be my sweet boy. Oh,
you did that I hate you. You have ruined me.
No, go ahead.
>> Will (01:02:05):
No, I was gonna say it was worth the facts me. Every time I'm like,
why? You know, sometimes they grade on me, but then it's just like they
have these moments like that one that you just shared. But why, why,
why? You need to have a facts around.
And also, and also the funny. You know, you have the,
the, the facts like, you know,
Neil and then he had the facts like,
(01:02:25):
like Frankie and Fanny,
Franny and as seen us. But you know, who was
the other.
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:02:33):
Yeah, yeah, Sammy. And then you have Teddy.
Teddy, who's the main one who we saw a lot more
this season in particular. but Neil,
even towards the end, he admits
that because he's getting kind of
promoted to a stage in front
of House. And he. He does a weird thing
(01:02:55):
when he walks with his hands and he
acknowledges to Richie is like this place is
fans fancy. and
I'm not there. There's also a
theme of all these people
not feeling goody self good, good enough
for it. Whether it be the kitchen,
(01:03:15):
whether it be the work family or the family. Family.
>> Will (01:03:19):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:20):
And that, that's the epitome of what
Carmy. And why Carmy is running away
again is because he doesn't feel good enough. Which is
bizarre because as we
pointed out and discussed, like, he helped
get these people to where they are and
he, like, he's created this thing and now he just
(01:03:40):
wants to walk away. But at the same
time, I also am like, if you got some to deal with,
you gotta go deal with that or else.
>> Will (01:03:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:49):
Like, I, I can also sympathize because
I, I feel like with
a lot of the brazado,
like even the family tree, we,
we only know so much about
the childhood trauma that
occurred. and, and borderline
abuse that occurred. So,
(01:04:14):
like, there it is.
It's kind of like I understand,
but it don't appreciate.
Don't appreciate.
yeah. Like,
like overall, for me,
as you. As you might have guessed, the finale is my favorite
(01:04:36):
episode of the season. I, I do
appre. The wedding. It's hard. The
Bears Episode 7, I go back and forth
on because I,
I. It's not fishes 2.0 for me.
It really is. It's not.
>> Will (01:04:52):
Nope.
>> Sarah (01:04:53):
But. And there are pieces I
really like. There's just something about the
pacing.
>> Will (01:05:00):
It dragged.
>> Sarah (01:05:02):
It drags. It is
a long episode and it feels like a long
episode. And,
and so I, don't know. I
go back and forth. But
yeah, I, I think I'm just biased
given that last week when we're talking about
Superman, I put out into the universe that
(01:05:25):
I can watch like a two hour movie of just two
people having an intense conversation.
Fast forward to the Bear season finale.
We had. We had three people have an
intense conversation and I was, I was here for
it. Granted, it was also the shortest episode of the
season. So I was also like, okay,
(01:05:46):
yeah,
but. And, and this isn't my favorite,
season of the Bear. I don't think anything will
ever top season two for me. But
I did. I did a. Two things
happened when I finished the first time.
I immediately wanted to start over again.
(01:06:08):
and I also was like, ah, ah, I wish I had time to go
back and watch season three again.
Because it tells me something
when by the end of the season I'm like,
I just want to hang out with these people some more. There's
something about being in this world that I enjoy,
so I just want to be here in a little bit
(01:06:29):
longer.
>> Will (01:06:33):
Totally.
>> Sarah (01:06:33):
Yeah.
>> Will (01:06:34):
Yeah. I mean, because. I mean, because that's, you know, there's so many other.
There's other things like, happened this season too, like, you know, such
payoffs with, with these characters like Marcus.
I mean, we haven't even talked talk, you know, this all, you
know, the whole, you know,
him being the, you know, name best new
chef by, Food and Wine magazine. I thought that was just, you know, and
(01:06:54):
just. And also, just like. And also his family drama. I mean,
because, you know, he kept texting his dad through. I think it was his
dad throughout the season about, you know, they were supposed to meet up and they
didn't, you know, he goes through the, he goes to the
cafe and then, you know, he, he bells.
and, and so, you know, so he's, you know, he's
got some, you know, unfinished business with, you know, with,
(01:07:15):
with, with his, that and also the whole, you
know, side story with his mom's house being sold and, and
his, you know, friend, you know, and the bad. And the,
the juju that was like, you know, the stories about
how, you know, homes being sold and, and
you know, does that create bad juju, you know, as far as talk about
family and transition.
>> Sarah (01:07:35):
Yeah. Yeah. I was just gonna
say his, interactions
or lack thereof with his father is very
similar to how Carmi's been avoiding his mother for
all these years. So,
so they, they parallel that very
nicely. His also his best
friend having a very awkward
(01:07:58):
encounter with Luca. which.
But again, it's, And I Don't know his
friend's name. Off the top of my head,
he. That character was
honestly also kind of being like.
Like, Sid's cousin, where you're
leaving me behind.
>> Will (01:08:17):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:08:18):
Like, I used to. I used to be the one where
you would have. And. And so you can see how
this new family and the growth
that these characters have. Have
caused friction with the relationships
that they had with others before who
are not on the same journey.
>> Will (01:08:39):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:08:39):
Which. And. And it's. And it's kind of like,
well, duh, people are
gonna grow. And. And also to them, like, he
has a very. Marcus has a very similar
reaction to when he, His friend says,
yeah, you guys want to go to hoots afterwards?
but it's like, okay, maybe.
(01:09:01):
If. But for Marcus, it's
just like, I'm gonna. I'm still. I'm doing
my job. You're still my friend. Nothing's changed. But
to his friend, it's like, you're leaving me
in the dust.
>> Will (01:09:13):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:09:14):
And so it's,
It's, An interesting side note to
put out there, in terms of.
As we head into a new season. So.
So. And I know that people watch this season
without that knowledge that there would be a season five.
I don't know. I guess I was like one of,
(01:09:36):
like, in the minority when I just thought of season
five would be automatic.
>> Will (01:09:42):
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I remember whenever I broke the news,
you know, it broke right before. I think we recorded
that, that the show had been renewed because.
And, Like, of course it did. And I was like, no, no, it
was like, not. You know, and we. We had a whole discussion about whether
or not, you know, the reasons why
(01:10:03):
it was not a given that season, five was going to happen.
but, One last thing I want to just hit at too, as far as,
When you talked about,
paths of characters and stuff and is Ibrahim
story. Because the whole thing that sort of kicked off
this season two, what. You know, which was the big
over. The big thing hanging over the restaurant was the bad
(01:10:25):
review from, you know, the mixed review, I guess, from Chicago
Tribune, where, you know,
with. As far as the. The. The. The bear part
of the restaurant having, you
know, all over the place just like army. But the,
But the. The. But the. The lunch counter. The beef, you
know, was. Was really, you know,
(01:10:46):
was. They had great things to say about it.
And. And one thing I really appreciate about this show is each
season, you know, they. They do focus
on the. As an ensemble. So
everybody, like last Season, you know, had Tina's, you know, you
know, whole story backstory as far as like how she and
Mikey, you know, met and you know, after she lost her
(01:11:06):
job and you know, and she had. How she ended up at the Beef
and you know, you know, the summer, I can't remember,
was it sweets Sweet is the
>> Sarah (01:11:14):
I think so. I think so.
>> Will (01:11:16):
Yeah. You know, his, his story this season as
far as just like learning more. Marcus of course going off, you know,
learning from Luca and this season was Ibrahim and the
whole like, you know, meeting up with Al
to have you know, start talking
about franchising the lunch counter and, and
it's like how even in
(01:11:37):
even one of the big. The, the. The the the. The. The
fancy part of the restaurant was in the
red, you know, the, the, the. The lunch
takeout was successful and,
and you know, was, was helping to, you know, really carry
things along to the point that, you know, at the end computer
and Al had this conversation and they were like, you know,
(01:11:58):
let's, let's, let's talk, even. And, and
even. And so, you know, so that, that was,
that's another thing I do appreciate about this show is like, you
know, it truly isn't like an ensemble show and even the
have you know, real
significant arcs in their journey. So
that like, to, to your point, I do want to spend time
(01:12:20):
with these folks, even if it takes me a minute to get back into this
world at the beginning of the season. By the end of the
season I'm like, damn, I want more. I want more.
>> Sarah (01:12:29):
Yeah. Yeah, no, no, I, I
agree. It's, it's the. When you say
ensemble to me, it's just
equates to what we always talk about, like the
supporting cast. Their,
their
their arcs are just
(01:12:49):
as. Are not these
weird side stories. No,
they ah, they, they. There's a reason
there, there's something at the root of, of
the main character arc that
is occurring that it's connected
to. Sometimes it feels a bit loose, but,
(01:13:10):
but the Bear runs a pretty tight shift and I
mean the fact that the what
Abraham has been running successfully
is basically Michael's business.
>> Will (01:13:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:13:23):
Two hours of the day.
Like there's a strong connection there.
And I'd. We don't know if
Carmy and Natalie are going to be as on
board with the idea of Abraham taking that and
running away with it. like,
yeah, Abraham may be creating an opportunity,
(01:13:43):
but is he stealing a
family recipe? I don't know.
So, so it's I, I can also
appreciate how like
thank God this wasn't the last season because in a
way they left a lot open there.
This isn't a. Let me tie every single
(01:14:05):
threat. I mean they tied the ones that they needed to.
Sid made a decision and so did Carmy.
But Carmes is a bit. It's Carmy.
So bit wishy washy there. So
yeah, I'm. This season was
successful success for me.
brings me. Brought me back around for sure. For
(01:14:25):
sure on this show. I will probably end
up re. Watching the series at some
point later this year, but.
>> Will (01:14:32):
Agreed.
>> Sarah (01:14:35):
all right, well on that note, Will,
why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:14:41):
Yes.
>> Sarah (01:14:43):
And drop the information about the Comic
Con live streams that you're going to be doing this
weekend.
>> Will (01:14:50):
Yeah. Yeah. So, as I noted, Comic Con
is this weekend and Saturday I'm going
to be doing a live stream of the Star
Trek hall each presentation.
you know, live reaction to it. they're gonna have
casted a Strange New World seats on the. On
the panel as well as the upcoming Starfleet
(01:15:10):
Academy show. So I definitely, definitely anticipate
probably some. Some teaser trailers for Strange
for Starfleet Academy which will premiere next year.
And also you know, as I joked earlier,
Star Star Trek panel and the paradise panel run up
against each other. So I'll have to like, you know,
I'll talk about it. For season two, we did get a.
(01:15:34):
A photo from some images of season two of
paradise, today from Entertainment Weekly.
And then last, going to also
try to live stream the Peacemaker
panel since they will have They. They will
also have a Hall H presentation as
on Saturday as well. So just
(01:15:54):
I'll. I'll have the
links up for those. So you just come to our.
To our. Our YouTube channel to. To join me
in the live stream and and we can all react to all
the, all the news from Comic Con.
>> Sarah (01:16:09):
Very cool. and where can our
listeners find you, Will?
>> Will (01:16:14):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at. Ah Will
M. Polk W I L L M M P O L L.
>> Sarah (01:16:19):
K and you can find me there too at SJ
Belmont sjblmnt. Please follow our crew
on X, formerly known as Twitter at Scene and Nerd on Blue
Sky. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and
threads at scene ncore nerd
and visit our website www.scenard
podcast.com but most importantly,
rate, follow and comment on, Apple Podcast,
(01:16:41):
Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek
out. You're welcome.
>> Will (01:16:54):
It.
Music
(00:12):
Greetings, nerds. This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and
with me, as always, is our Mr. Producer, Will Polk How are you doing
tonight, Will?
>> Will (00:20):
Doing very well, Sarah. Hope you're doing well this Tuesday
evening.
>> Sarah (00:23):
Yeah, I just got reminded that, like,
last week you were telling me about, like, the flash flooding that
was happening in your neck of the woods.
>> Will (00:31):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (00:32):
So. So yesterday,
now. Now where I work, and this
might sound odd,
but I essentially, our, our building is
essentially on top of a mountain.
And like, like, literally, like, it's
like we're on the edge of the cliff.
>> Will (00:52):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (00:53):
Okay. Okay. And we have been told that based
on how they designed the building and if there's an
earthquake, like, we'll slide not
forward.
This whole thing. It's the whole thing. But anyways,
so just to give you an understanding, and, like, there's massive
windows, and my area is near a window. And
(01:14):
to tie this back into rain, yesterday,
I kid you not for. For about,
like, out of nowhere, all of a sudden, I hear, oh,
my God, look out the window. And when I turned,
I was like, God, just
started a fire hose.
>> Will (01:33):
Oh, my gosh.
>> Sarah (01:34):
I. And I. I even said to my co
workers, I'm m. Like, I've never even seen
it rain this hard in, Juneau.
And Juneau's, like, known for its rain. It's like
Seattle of. Of Alaska.
And like, the rain was diagonal
because there was wind.
(01:55):
And all I could think is, man, if anybody was taking a
walk, poor them, because dear Lord.
But yeah, anyways,
so I just had that random thought that I wanted to
get out there. and there is no
smooth tie in to this or
Le Leg. Whatever. yeah,
(02:16):
let's talk about them ease. Because Will wants to talk about. That means.
>> Will (02:20):
Well, I mean, we, you know, we. We decided to, like,
jump head first into Superman last week. But yeah,
we. We did have, some Emmy nominations,
last week, which is actually a good lead into
one of the topics. Our main topic for tonight, which is
going to be the Bear, which, was
nominated for, Outstanding
(02:40):
Comedy Series, even though it was. Even though it's
not a comedy, but.
>> Sarah (02:45):
Nominated for season three, but whatever.
>> Will (02:48):
Yeah, yeah. Just so. Just so we're clear, as far as Emmy
nominations just for. To reset for folks. So,
the, the Emmys that were the
nominations that were announced last week is for the.
For the shows to air between June
1st of 2024 and May 31st of
2025. So, just wanted to. That
way you just Wanted to be clear for folks, you
(03:10):
know what the, what the time frame for, for the shows
that were nominated. and, and
yeah so that was a Sarah the Bear season three
which as we're talking about season four tonight. But
also in the comedy series
category, the Studio which we we we just covered
here on the podcast a few weeks ago which was, was a,
was a fun show. I, I really really really did
(03:33):
like that. glad we we went
checked out something else in Prestige TV on Apple.
Apple tv.
>> Sarah (03:41):
I think Hacks is gonna win.
>> Will (03:43):
Yeah. Yeah, probably yeah. Hacks or Hacks
or Abbott Elementary. I mean those, those two are
always seems to be the, the the sort of front
runners. and I know shrinking, I haven't watched it
but you know it's one of those things. I think this as far as the social media.
Buz class always
talks about that show.
Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, of course we
(04:05):
have our outstanding drama shows which you know
several things that we have covered in the last year
we're on there of course andor the Last of Us
season two which you know I think that was
as much about reputation, the quality of
the season
to just, just being honest. But you know
(04:25):
the further distance I get from, from season two the more
I, I, I, I, I just don't, I'm just
not feeling it. but one show
that we both really really did enjoy paradise
was was nominated.
>> Sarah (04:37):
That is hilarious because you know that
the way you feel about the Last of Us is the way I feel about
Paradise. The further away from I get to it,
the more I'm upset about that show.
>> Will (04:51):
Yeah, well, yeah, well I know,
yeah yeah, well I know paradise is going to be a Comic Con this
upcoming weekend and I'm gonna try to live stream
their their presentation. So
so check it out. I know it like butts up against the
Star Trek one too. So I'm just like okay, how am I do this? But
I'll figure it out.
(05:11):
But all the shows, you know, I still
haven't watched a minute of the White Lotus.
>> Sarah (05:17):
Yeah, don't. It's so boring. So boring.
>> Will (05:20):
But but I know it has a little connection here to
to my backyard because due to Jason Isaac's
character had had a Duke University
sweatshirt or T shirt in that show this past season. And
it's funny story. I think the only reason why it was one of those things where
he was passing through the airport in Charlotte and actually I think that's how he
ended up with the T shirt. All right,
(05:41):
yeah. but, let's see. As far as limited
series or anthology. Anthology series, of course.
Adolescence and the Penguin, which were two things,
I think, as we definitely get distance from
both of those, the more I just appreciate both of those shows.
>> Sarah (05:58):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Will (06:00):
and then also as far as,
other quick items, as far as.
>> Sarah (06:06):
You go to the directing
categories.
>> Will (06:10):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (06:10):
Because when I was scanning the list, I was, ah.
Because I don't know how much people understand
that when you're nominated
for, and specifically
television shows, when you're nominated for like
outstanding writing or directing, it's not the whole
season. Like they put forward
(06:32):
actual episodes and so that's how you get.
Oh, yeah, go ahead and just pause on the
drama. I don't care about copy. because
that's how we get outstanding directing.
The Pit is nominated twice, Severance is
nominated twice, and
man, the Pit. It's
interesting because I'm pretty sure 7am
(06:56):
is the first episode. 6pm
makes more sense to me why they would do that
episode. And then.
And, or who are you?
Yeah, like out of and.
But I think for directing. Oh, no, they did that
for directing. What about writing? Did they nominate
(07:16):
that episode for writing?
or did they did I, am I remembering
correctly that it was actually the, welcome to the
Rebellion. Rebellion, which is the Mon
Mothma speech episode, right?
>> Will (07:31):
That's correct. That's correct.
>> Sarah (07:32):
That's correct. Okay. I,
I, I, I still think
that who are you
writing and directing, but I get
it. I understand why. I mean, there's not as
much technical writing in that
episode of who Are you, but.
(07:52):
Yeah, and then 2pm Sorry, I was
just looking at the. What the competition is
for the Pit again, which
I, I know I didn't talk a lot about the Pit,
but it's such a very
different workplace drama
that I've ever seen. And I think
for me, I'm, I wish
(08:15):
that there was more character development,
but I understand that
they were doing a very unique thing
where it really just felt like somebody
was documenting what happened in a real life
ER for a day. Yeah,
that's what it really feels like.
(08:36):
yeah. But, you know, I haven't watched
Severance Season 2, and I know it's
outstanding from what I hear. So a part of
me, even with these, some of these
nominations, whether it be
andor the Pit, I
don't know. I have a feeling it might go to
Severance for a lot of these, but we'll
(08:58):
see.
>> Will (08:58):
Yeah, it, Yeah, I mean, Severance, was
nominated for 27 awards,
overall, all shows. The studio actually, was
set, was, also a top nominee with 23
nominations. And the Penguin, actually got
24.
>> Sarah (09:15):
yeah, yeah, I thought
Andor got the most.
>> Will (09:20):
Andor got 14.
>> Sarah (09:22):
Okay, I, I guess I read that headline like, way
wrong.
>> Will (09:28):
Another thing about Andor too, is none of them, none of the
actors were nominated. It was all either,
like we discussed here, writing and, and, and
directing. And also a lot of it was technical
categories.
>> Sarah (09:41):
That makes sense.
Yeah. I'm sorry. I. I love them. but,
yeah, if. Trust me, if, if they would have
nominated, Cassian.
No, not Cassian. I'm blanking on his name. What's his
first name?
>> Will (09:56):
Oh, Diego Luna. Yeah.
>> Sarah (09:57):
Thank you, Diego. Lina. I would have been like, yeah, that's a
Millie Bobby Brown nomination for you.
>> Will (10:02):
Yeah. it was really, truly an
ensemble show. The more I think of it, you know, Stella Stark, if
anybody, it was really Stella Star Scars Guard.
And, and, Genevieve, O'Reilly,
to me, would be the two people I would nominate for that show for acting.
>> Sarah (10:18):
Maybe. Maybe it just.
Yeah, yeah. Or, What about
Adolescence? What episodes
for writing and directing. So,
okay, this is interesting. So they're just nominated for the
full season of directing.
>> Will (10:34):
Correct, Correct. Which I guess. Yeah.
Because I know there are four episodes.
>> Sarah (10:41):
But then why is the Penguin, like
two episodes are nominated? So they're just
doing. Interesting.
>> Will (10:50):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (10:56):
I mean, if it. Honestly, I love the Penguin.
We all know how I feel about the Penguin, season one.
It's great. It's great.
Adolescents better get something
in directing and writing, because
I don't. I don't care. And, and that
actor, that kid actor.
>> Will (11:14):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (11:15):
Oh, my God, the boy. the episode called the
Boy. It is such a. It's such a good
episode of television.
>> Will (11:22):
Yep. And there's there, There is adolescence for
writing.
>> Sarah (11:26):
Yeah. Yeah. And Stephen Graham, who
plays the dad in the show. Yeah.
>> Will (11:31):
Yep. Yep. And it's my understanding of. I want to say that the,
actor, the young man who did play the,
Yeah, he was Du Bois.
Yeah, he. I can't remember the boy's name in the, in the show, but he was
nominated because adolescence, got 13,
>> Sarah (11:45):
Nominations overall, as they should,
because. And yes, they did
the Cheat Code, but they did it to
perfection because. Wow. To
do a one shot. I mean, I did take note that the.
The episode of directing for Comedy Studios,
nominated for is the oner. And I'm
(12:06):
like, no, the best episode of that show
is casting. Okay.
Oh, my God. And that episode didn't even get
nominated for writing. And I'm like, well, you.
Because that was the best episode. Are you
kidding me? My God.
Jesus. Yeah. The promotion got episode which was
(12:26):
the first episode of this season.
It was solid, but not when you compare it to
casting.
>> Will (12:34):
No.
>> Sarah (12:34):
Like, Oh, my God. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. It's just.
I mean. Yeah,
it's tough.
>> Will (12:46):
The one or did get for directing. So.
>> Sarah (12:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I said.
And the bear napkins makes
all the sense in the world why. Why
they would nominate that episode out of season three. It
is arguably the best episode of season three.
>> Will (13:03):
Correct.
>> Sarah (13:06):
and, AO is gonna get.
AO I think
is becoming the new Peter Dinklage where she
will always get an Emmy nomination and probably a
win because.
Because in. For season four, she's gonna get
nominated for co writing the episode
(13:26):
called, Worms. So she's
already gonna get nominated for that.
>> Will (13:32):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:32):
I'm surprised she didn't direct that episode, but more on
that in a moment. yeah. I'm
glad to see that a lot of the shows
that as you like to put it it. Are
prestige television
discussions have been.
Have been nominated rightfully. So.
(13:53):
I hope they do the right thing and give Adolescence.
Even though it's a British drama, like, it's props
because I mean,
arguably it's been a while since.
And I know you're gonna remind me, well, how many times did you watch
the Bear season two, but
Adolescence. Within a week I had
(14:14):
watched those four episodes.
At least. I think three of the four. Three
times.
>> Will (14:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:21):
And then like all four of them at least twice.
>> Will (14:24):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:26):
It's just. And. And I still. Every now and then
I'll think about a moment and
it just felt
so raw. And I,
don't want to use the word like disturbing
in the most unusual way.
>> Will (14:43):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:43):
and horrifying in the most unusual
way. So I, I just.
The technical achievement
alone should just be a
sweep. But I also know that the Emmys
like, viewers. So.
>> Will (15:00):
Yeah, well, I think. Well, you know, well, it. They like viewers
and this show Adolescence, if it's not still
the top. It was definitely the top.
>> Sarah (15:08):
Yes.
>> Will (15:09):
series on. On Netflix for. For some time as far
as minutes watched and stuff. So it had eyeballs. I was just
talking to someone this week about adolescence, as well. I
mean, this is truly one of those shows that just,
you know, this definitely just sticks in the consciousness.
when. When you watch it and. And you're Right.
I mean, just all. All the adjectives you used to
(15:29):
describe it, are just on point there because it really
is, that. That impactful of a. Of a television
show.
>> Sarah (15:36):
Yeah. Yeah. And even though it
wasn't, for the most part, my cup of tea,
I would say the same thing for Andor, like, all the
accolades you give Andor. And I
know people who, like, love the
lore, say Andor is the
best Star wars television show and
arguably product that we've had in decades.
(15:59):
So.
And. And it's. And so it's
good to see, like, a show in that
genre, like the sci fi fantasy genre,
get accolades like this as well. Writing
competition, when we got the. The high.
when we got shows like Severance and White
(16:21):
Lotus out there. And, and
what we're about to talk about right now, the Bear season
four. I mean,
when you just brought up how my feelings about
adolescence. Bear season four.
Okay, well, we're gonna get into this,
and. And I've forewarned you, and you gotta.
(16:42):
You gotta watch me tonight. You gotta be
like, sarah, you're going down
a rabbit hole, and I need you to circle back.
I'm not gonna give away my overall thought, but
obviously I really enjoyed the season.
So, to. To break it down,
the episode that has haunted me
(17:04):
since I've watched it is the finale.
And we are going. I would like
to start with how the finale
starts, which is Sid and talking
about Sid this season. Because
this season. And my first question to you
to get your thoughts out there on it, Will. Is
(17:26):
about Sid and her decision to
take up Shapiro on his offer that
he made to her first in the season finale
of season three, to become
the head of his new restaurant. And
so for arguably like
eight or nine of the 10
episodes, we see her
(17:49):
continuing to go back and forth like she's
making small steps forward with Shapiro,
not really not telling Carmy or anyone else.
But you. You can tell it's weighing heavily on
her. So for you and your
experience with this season, did you feel
like they drug it on too long?
(18:09):
Were you suppressing. Surprised of the outcome of her
choosing to stay with the Bear? What.
What are your thoughts? And feel free to bring up
episode four, Worms.
>> Will (18:20):
Yeah. yeah, I do want to talk about
worms, but I. I will say,
I'll be completely honest. I was getting
a little worn out with how they
were drawing an elk.
>> Sarah (18:33):
Yep.
>> Will (18:34):
throughout the season, I was like. Because every time,
you know, because it. Because it was. It would
get to it, and. And she was Trying to
tell Carmy or, and then, or the others,
you know, and then, you know, something would happen
and then, and then, you know, Shapiro calls
Carmy and, and, and then
(18:56):
this, it was just so many things about the
decision and also
the you know, worms and also with her dad
and you know, they kind of, to me they
telegraphed that. So when it, when it was the hall, when he had,
when they had the, the call that nobody ever wants to
get about their parent, or any, or anyone,
(19:17):
I felt like they had telegraphed that something was going to happen to dad.
Just the way that she kept putting him off throughout the
season, in those early episodes. So,
so part of it was that, so that piece was predictable.
The, But I will say I was frustrated
with the, the build up to, and the
drone out of it that finally, when she does finally tell
(19:37):
Adam that she's not going to accept the
offer, it felt anti climactic to me.
>> Sarah (19:44):
So, yes, I, I
agree completely. Mainly
because I don't know if you had this thought
why it felt dragged out, but I was just like, well, we
know the last episode's called Goodbye, so
obviously she's going to take the offer and then season
five is going to be
(20:05):
like. I was like just waiting for that.
but before we get into more about that,
I want to. You brought up her dad having a heart attack.
Okay. So
I, I, I've rewatched this season
and so I've seen all the episodes twice.
I didn't think much of anything. I mean
(20:27):
she's purposely ignoring, ignoring
him. Very similar to the,
the fact that we're constantly reminded about how
Carmy, to pursue his dream,
basically abandoned his family. Yeah. Right.
So you, so I think that's why
they brought up that parallel. But when
(20:48):
AO is sitting in the waiting room with
Claire.
>> Will (20:52):
Oh gosh.
>> Sarah (20:53):
Yeah, now.
And I don't know if it's just me, but her
line delivery about
like he's always supposed to be here.
He, he's Parallels,
I swear to God in the exact same
way she gives the same, same line
(21:13):
delivery in the finale
when she yells at Carmy, but you're my
partner. You're supposed to be here.
Like. And so I thought the moment
I heard her say that it made that whole
line story, arc with her
dad so much more
impactful for me. Because then
(21:35):
it's like, okay. Because
another thing that we're reminded about this season
is especially towards the end is she
lost her mom when she
was young. So, so you.
And what we're reminded about in worms.
Like, her hairdresser is her cousin,
(21:57):
who she clearly is. Friends
clearly get along like part of the family
and yet also like, her
cousin is not afraid to point out. Yeah,
you're. You're kind of distancing yourself
from us to go, like, because
you're putting your work family above
this. So which,
(22:20):
which ties into her conversation
with. With, Donna
during the wedding episode about work,
family and family. Family
and all of those connections.
And I will. I. I had to. I made all
of those connections during my re. Watch.
>> Will (22:42):
Okay.
>> Sarah (22:42):
None of this hit me during my first watch.
But my point being is
that, yeah, the. The whole dad,
you. You knew something was gonna happen to him,
but I don't think it's about
him necessarily. It's more
(23:03):
about how that then
when you're like, it makes
her decision at the end of the day to stay
more like, okay,
yeah, that makes sense why she
would stay. I don't think it was meant to be
climactic. I think the writers just
(23:25):
wanted to make sure, like, you
didn't take it like Shapiro and being like,
well, that's a stupid decision.
>> Will (23:33):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (23:34):
Like, you understood her logic.
>> Will (23:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, she totally
understood that. And Shapiro. Just. Just to touch on that
briefly. I mean, his,
you know, with worms and, you know, there were a couple
things with that episode. One, I just felt
like, you know, he was, you know, when he was trying to again
do the pitch as far as, like, we have a health plan and
(23:58):
we have all the equity in the kitchen, in the restaurant and
all that kind of stuff. But then the thing that also
felt kind of performative to me as far as, like, him trying to
relate was whenever she was like, trying to, you know,
she's like, look, I move. You know, I'm going to my cousin's hair done and that
kind of stuff. And. And then he was like, oh, yeah, I watched, Well. Oh, God, I
can't remember the name of the. The Good Hair. Good Hair.
(24:19):
Yes, Good Hair. And it was just so.
I. I just. It was so cringe to me when he
said that. Like, he was just trying to, To.
To relate and be all Mr. Progressive and all
that kind of stuff.
>> Sarah (24:31):
You. Did you catch the moment when she's
touring the space and he has on
like, this hardcore rap hip hop
music and she turned it to classical.
>> Will (24:42):
Yep, I did.
Yeah. It's just. I mean, that's. That's the thing I do appreciate
about how well written this show is.
those moments. And then, you know, and also, like, even with
with their cousin, you know, as far as the code switching,
whenever she was getting the phone calls and stuff, and she, you know,
and. And, you know, again, the show
(25:03):
always is so on point with their. With
their, guest stars, you know, having Daniel
Deadweiler, you know, play the cousin, of course, Robert
Townsend's back as. As the dad. and. And
so, you know, that all those. Those are the
little. The little points that make the show.
Even when I will freely admit it took me a moment to
get back into. Into the Bear this season.
(25:26):
but once I did, I was just like, oh, yeah, I remember. I love the show.
>> Sarah (25:30):
Yeah. Yeah. So sticking with Sid,
ah, we talked about her dad.
What are your thoughts about her conversation with
Donna during, the wedding
episode, also known as the. The Bears
episode?
>> Will (25:47):
The Bears, Yeah. Yeah, that was.
You know, I think if I. If I'm not mistaken, that was the first time
they've met, they've heard, and,
it was. It was a very. Those.
You know, this is why,
even though Donna grates on me as
far as a character, but the way
(26:07):
that she. That Jamie Lee Curtis and I.O.
did that just to perform that scene,
it just, you know, episode seven,
I know, we were messaging Sunday. I was like, yeah,
I'm thinking it's taking. It's taking me a while to get through because, of course, this, you know, the
Bears always got to have the big one, Big, big episode
for the season. but,
(26:28):
it was. I. It just
felt so authentic.
>> Sarah (26:33):
Like.
>> Will (26:33):
And in that moment with. Especially when they're talking about family
and. And everything about that scene, it
just really just, really just resonated because,
you know, because, you know, from Sid's standpoint, you
know, she's. She's probably, you know, she's. She's heard about.
About Donna and this. How destructive she is. Right?
And then, you know, from. From Car's perspective and the rest
(26:55):
of the. The bears. But whenever
she actually meets her and they have that conversation, it's just like, you
know, I think. Yeah. And
I think, you know, after. After it was all
done and. And all that, it was.
She's like, oh, you know, she.
She had a dip. I guess it
(27:15):
helped reinforce her decision to stay. To me,
as far as, like, this is the family I'm a part of now.
>> Sarah (27:21):
Yeah. Yeah. Because Donna
says, I love seeing the same people every day.
And this is in reference to when she used to work in the
restaurant the Beef. And it felt very
alive. A strange comfort. Sometimes your work
family is closer than your family. And
then a Or Sid
says sometimes your work family is part of
(27:44):
your family family and they can all be
a family together. And, and
it really is the moment like
I mean she, even when she, she's, she
gets under the table. I mean
she's now a
part. Like Carmy says at the end. No, you are the
(28:04):
bear and the bear,
there's, there's two sides. The bear, the restaurant
and the brazados, the bears themselves.
So. But, but also
at the same time that,
that conversation
is very crucial for us as viewers
(28:26):
to know like the next,
next episode. That's when Sid calls
Shapiro and tells him this is
off. I'm not gonna do, I'm not gonna do
this. He basically,
no, it's not that episode. It's the, It's.
I think it's okay. Episode nine,
in my opinion, is the finale.
(28:48):
Episode ten is an
epilogue. Yeah, I know. Hot take,
hot take. But it's true. It's true
twice. Everything, all of
the threads really come together in
that final In that episode nine. The
real finale or the real, like an
(29:09):
epilogue? That really
such wonderfully done. But I'm gonna get to that in a
moment. So my point being is that
like that helps us
understand what's going on with Donna. Because
in the next episode.
Episode eight.
(29:29):
No, no, because episode eight is
when Carmy takes the drive.
Episode nine is when he actually has the conversation
with Donna at the house.
>> Will (29:41):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because. Yeah, yeah, because. Yeah, because. Yeah,
he. Yeah, that's correct.
>> Sarah (29:47):
Yeah, yeah. Which,
and what, what I'm saying is like
after, right after these few words are
exchanged between Sydney and Donna, Donna leaves.
And in her conversation
in the ninth episode with Carmy, the first
time that they have seen each other ever,
(30:09):
like in decades. Years.
>> Will (30:12):
Years. It's been a minute.
>> Sarah (30:14):
Yeah. Like, and I just want to go
into that scene before we get to Carmy because
wow. Oh my
God. Talk about
like please give the Os or please give
the Emmy. Now.
(30:35):
that. That is just such a good
scene of
somebody apologizing.
But also, And they did it so
sly upon my
rearraged, I realized because the
way Donna apologizes to
(30:56):
Carmy for essentially his childhood.
>> Will (30:59):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (31:00):
He is very similar to the
way Carmy apologizes to Sid and
to Richie.
>> Will (31:07):
Yep. Yeah, I, Yeah, I picked up Donna's
parallels. yeah, I was just like,
damn, you know, Carmy and Donna are just two. They,
they are just.
>> Sarah (31:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Will (31:19):
And yeah, they're the same person.
>> Sarah (31:20):
I was like, yeah, but, but
they're the same and it's the same
tragedy, whether it's when she
apologizes, like, and she says,
I was hurt and I took it out on you,
on Michael and Natalie.
And then when she does that, I couldn't help him.
(31:41):
I probably made it worse. I don't know.
And I don't know you, meaning Carmy.
And. And you don't know me. And I know that's
my fault. Like, go back to
Sid and Donna, like the work
family. In that moment,
she's inquiring to someone she's never met
before about her own son.
>> Will (32:04):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:04):
Like, how is he? How is he in
this? Like, you work together, you know him,
you're invited to one of our family members wedding.
Like, clearly you know more about my
son than I do. I mean, he talks to you,
so you can just feel all of. Hear all of
(32:24):
that guilt and that pain.
And, and, and I love how
she's like, you see, I wrote it. I wrote it down.
And I, was so proud. And then,
and then he cooks for her. And
it's arguably, it's pretty much the first time that
we really see him cook in the season.
>> Will (32:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:46):
And. And it's just, it's so.
It's also nice. Like, I, I
can appreciate how the response,
A lot of response that Carmy has
throughout this season
to anyone is. I hear
you.
>> Will (33:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (33:06):
And I think that that, is. Is
acknowledgment of what was missing, like, specifically
in season three. There was so much talk,
but nobody was hearing or listening to
each other. which just led to a lot of
resentment. But.
>> Will (33:24):
Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, that was. Yeah, yeah,
that was. Yeah. I mean that. This was. I mean this, this
season definitely was like,
followed up on.
It was a. Well,
I'll put a pin in that. Let's just move. Let's. one last thing about,
Sydney before we move on to Carmy. But also, you know,
(33:45):
and her decision and really what the thing
really, worked for me so well, was her conversation with
tj. Her. You know, because
with the whole thing with her, with her, she
ended up because her cousin, like, ran
out of, you know, braids for her for,
for while she was doing her hair, so she had to run out. But
(34:07):
I just really. This. That
worms has set up so many things for this
season. and, and so, and.
And the whole conversation about this, you know, the slumber party
and you know, her little cousin, you know, having to go to,
you know, this, you know, the school and you know,
you know, obviously using the, the school
Situation as a parallel between the two restaurants. I mean, it's
(34:29):
just. It was just so well done. And it was just sort of, you know, and just
Sydney just basically talking out loud. Her. Her.
You know, her. Well,
she was feeling internally with her little cousin to. To
help her, help her make the decision. So after
watching. After watching Worms, I. I
felt like she was going to stay at the Bear. And then
that's what got me so frustrated when I felt
(34:52):
like it was just getting dragged
out over the course of the seasons. Like, just. Just tell us already.
Just tell everyone already.
>> Sarah (35:00):
Right, right, right.
so. So. So now then to move on to Carmy.
Carmy, like
the. The Bear, as in the restaurant
guilt he deals with this season.
because essentially it's
very, very clear that their
(35:23):
failure, all of
the holes in the parachute, are his fault.
Or at least 75%.
and. And you can see him internalizing that.
and it also feels like rejection. Like suddenly
even his restaurant family is
(35:44):
rejecting him, similarly to
how he must have felt like as a
child and being rejected from his own family,
and being casted as an as. As an outside
cider, which. So.
So he. He makes a bunch of changes pretty,
early on where he quits cigarettes,
(36:05):
he apologizes to declare.
And, And this all happens really
in episode three. And at the end of
the episode, after his conversation with Claire,
he calls Pete and makes a change to the
contract. But we don't know what that
change is.
>> Will (36:24):
Correct.
>> Sarah (36:25):
Until the finale, which. Well,
until episode nine, where Sid
learns that he is removing
himself as a partner.
so he's basically quitting the restaurant, or as
Sid likes to put it, all restaurants.
but. And I think that decision
(36:48):
came also, came
from a brief conversation that he has
with Tina where she says,
I can feel you chasing something, like you're
fixating on something, but I just want you
to know you're the.
>> Will (37:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (37:07):
And I think it's that moment where he
realizes, like, yeah, he is
chasing a star, but really what
he's chasing is
he's trying to make.
He's trying. He's trying to be like,
okay, I did leave. I did conquer
(37:29):
this industry. I got a star.
So me not being there for my
brother and
not, not, not
like, not just not being there.
Yeah, like all that guilt is worth it.
You know, it's kind of, helping him
(37:50):
erase that guilt. And. And so
he has to deal with that, but he can only deal with that
by, like, removing himself from the
restaurant. I also think it's Interesting
how? How,
in a way. And he admits it
when he finally gives them a
(38:10):
fixed menu. so no more
chaos menu. And he says, I was doing
that to test myself. Like, it was
a very selfish thing to, like, to prove
to myself and so to improve my
skills. Flashback to
season two, still the best
(38:30):
season of the Bear.
>> Will (38:32):
Yep.
>> Sarah (38:33):
where we have many episodes,
and Carmy is actually the
one who is taking
this group of people, whether it be Tina, whether it be
Marcus, whether it be Richie, whether it be Sid and all
of the others, and uplifting them and
saying, no, no, no, we're done with the beef.
(38:53):
This is the new standard. And we've
seen. And through that season and arguably
last season, and now here, you can see
all of them have actually
risen and met that potential.
But there's a disconnect for Carmy
because it's like, okay, you guys have met
(39:14):
me where I'm at, but I
don't know how to.
I don't know how to keep climbing for myself.
Yeah. So which. Which is a very,
interesting thing because it's like, okay, did he
plateau? is it. Does it go back to
that conversation Luca has with Tina about
(39:34):
pressure, and Carmy just doesn't know how to live
without the pressure.
>> Will (39:39):
Yeah. Yeah. That was a very telling conversation that Tina
and. And Luca had about pressure and
stuff. And. And. And. And. And
I think. And especially when you connect it to
Carmi's comment in the finale where he's
like, you know, I don't love this anymore. And.
And it was a computer. Who was it? I'm trying to remember.
(40:00):
Because in the. In the. In
the show, you know, computer asked the question,
why are you doing this?
>> Sarah (40:08):
Yeah.
>> Will (40:11):
And. And it was. And it was also. And I know when I watched the
finale, there was a callback. It was an earlier episode in
the season. I don't know if it was with Jim. Oh, was it with Uncle Jimmy
at the.
>> Sarah (40:23):
Sorry, what's the question?
>> Will (40:25):
Oh, the question is. So when Carmy says,
you know, he doesn't love it anymore. Love
the restaurant and the cooking and everything in the finale
there. So there was earlier in the season. I can't remember if
it was Uncle Jim. Uncle Lee. Excuse me.
Not Jimmy.
>> Sarah (40:42):
Uncle.
>> Will (40:42):
Lee. at the wedding or
whatever they were.
>> Sarah (40:47):
Yeah, I know what you're. I know what you're talking about.
It's a reference to the first
episode of the season where Natalie
tells him. That's it. Well, it's not the first
episode. I think it's, like the third episode.
But she tells him it's okay if
you no longer love it. And it's right after
(41:07):
she references.
>> Will (41:09):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (41:10):
Dropping him off at the train station to go to the train station.
>> Will (41:13):
Yes.
>> Sarah (41:14):
Which is a flashback that we see at the beginning of
episode. Or, season three.
>> Will (41:18):
Yeah, that's. That's. That's. That's exactly what I.
Yeah, because I remember it was earlier in the season. I know I wasn't making it up.
I just couldn't. I just couldn't remember which character brought
it up. But I just felt those parallel. That, that.
That statement at the beginning of the season and then what he
says at the end. but I don't.
>> Sarah (41:35):
I don't think it's because
she also says it's okay
if you no longer love it, because the best
part is you were capable of that love.
Like the same thing with Claire. I mean,
this season, there's so much time where Carmy
clearly is still in love with Claire, but
(41:56):
they have that very.
That in that conversation where he finally
apologizes, but.
And then by the end of it, he brings back the
sweater, but they're still not together.
Like, he's capable of love with
Claire. He's capable of love with the
(42:16):
restaurant, but at the end of the day,
he hasn't. He hasn't
figured out this guilt or
even. Or grief.
>> Will (42:30):
And.
>> Sarah (42:30):
And. And I think. I think the more
true statement for him in that finale
is when he. When he says, I don't know who I
am outside of the restaurant.
>> Will (42:42):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (42:43):
Like. And. But then again,
it's. The restaurant's called the Bear, and the brazados
are the Bear. So it's kind of
like. Or do. Like. I don't
know. There's something also there. There's a. There's
a layer there where I almost want
to say by. By Carmy removing
(43:04):
himself from the restaurant. I'm not sure if
that's breaking a pattern as much as he
thinks it is, because it's. The breaking of patterns
is a conversation that he has with Uncle Lee
at the wedding.
>> Will (43:17):
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean,
to me, I. So I felt
like we. Carmy, this season made progress,
but it wasn't growth. But you get what I'm saying.
I mean, he's making some progress. Like you said, he's able to
apologize. He's trying to, you know, he's. He's taking the
steps to make him, you know, to. To try to.
(43:40):
To help you to. To men, relationships.
And. And, But, But.
But to me, when I was watching the finale, I was Just like,
it's him stepping away from the restaurant just, just
to. Just going back to what. What's in his
personality DNA, which is like, whenever things
get tough and as Richie calls him out on it, you know,
(44:02):
good battery in between, you know, he, He, He. He leaves the
situation. I mean, part of him going off to be
this master chef not only was to challenge himself and
everything, but also, I think was to get away from that chaos with
Donna and everything with the family and now.
>> Sarah (44:16):
Exactly.
>> Will (44:17):
Yeah. so to your, to your point is like, is this, Is
this. Is this him
breaking away, leaving the restaurant, even though he's
like, you know, and it's interesting how he defined leaving.
He's like, no, no, I'm not leaving an alert room. I'm going to get things
in the black here. But, but, you
know, is, Is he. Is he reverting back to what he, what
(44:39):
he knows and what he's comfort. His comfort zone. Especially
when you think about, you know, the wedding
episode, which I know you made such a great point, in our notes
as far as how pivotal that episode is, because they talk about
fear and you go around, you know, and everybody's under
the table and they go over what they fear. And he, you know, he just,
you know,
(45:00):
he. He still doesn't. You know,
I just think about that, like, with, the finale, it's like. No, no,
he. He's still going through that
muscle memory that he's familiar with.
>> Sarah (45:12):
Yeah, yeah, he's.
He's just. He's running away from
his work, family now, because he doesn't know.
He doesn't know what to do. And
it. And it's also,
I think, another reason why that decision,
(45:33):
kind of le. Like a lot of viewers are
mixed on, is because of the trust, as
you pointed out. Like. But you also keep
saying you're gonna fix things before you leave. So.
So I, I can only assume we're gonna get you in season five,
and by the end of season five, like, that's the
show, but you're still gonna play.
(45:54):
I just. I just can't see him not
be a part of the bear or
even the beef. in general, it's.
But before we get. Go into that and
get into the Richie of it all,
I just want to circle back to his conversation with Uncle
Lee, because conversation with Uncle
(46:14):
Lee was one of the. Another highlight from the wedding
episode. And,
and mainly what I like about that
conversation is because it does bring up
what happened in Fishes from season two.
And, and that relationship that
Uncle Lee had with Mikey. And we find out that before
(46:35):
Mikey's death, Uncle Lee and him actually
became friends. And it was a bit too
late. But that's why Uncle Lee
doesn't. Doesn't have like, the same
guilt. And what I, What I also
will say about that scene is
it's another instance where
(46:56):
somebody who was around during that
period of Michael's life,
Carmy just looks at them as like,
well, well, what did he talk about? And then the
moment they said, oh, he talked about you.
And then he wants. He wants proof.
It's very similar to Richie in the finale
(47:17):
where. Oh, oh, you went to. You went to the
funeral. What was I wearing?
>> Will (47:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:24):
Uncle Lee, you became friends with, Michael, and
Michael talked to you. Michael
talked to you about me.
Tell me, what did he say? Oh, you. You
wrapped. You wrapped fish
in something and all this stuff.
And so it. It's just.
(47:44):
It's very.
It's like my. It's like Carmy, which
is the most frustrating thing about him,
is seeking validation from, A
ghost.
>> Will (47:58):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (47:59):
And it's. And it's. And it's very. And I think
that's. Like you mentioned it before, Donna still
grates on you. Carmy still grates on us
because we're
like, we. We want you to get better.
But. Yes, but it's,
It's. It's such a. It's such a, When you see people
(48:19):
in that kind of state. And,
And I think this is, kind of. Kind of
explains Sid's reaction when the
finale conversation turns into
Richie and Carmy. It's where it's just
like, okay, I'm just.
I can't do anything to help the situation.
(48:40):
So all I can do is just watch because.
Yeah.
>> Will (48:46):
How to smoke.
>> Sarah (48:47):
Because I'm, apparently not allowed to leave, according to
Richie and, And. And
Michael of it all. Like, Michael
starts off this season,
it's the only flashback we get of him with,
John Bernthal. and they're.
They're making sauce. You know,
(49:08):
and it reminds me of the first season
and where Carmy has to make
sauce for the.
The family dinner, which is the
bear family dinner. I forget what they call
it in a restaurant. They call it something. And,
And there's a back and forth with. With Richie about
(49:29):
it and because he's like, we're spending way
too much money on the sauce.
>> Will (49:34):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (49:35):
but it, it also ties into what you brought up
before with, like, the falling out of love of
kitchen, of, of
cooking, of the job. Like,
you have to, you have to love it. You have
to, you have to care about it.
So if you lose it then,
(49:55):
like, because
Michael, complains about how he lost his job.
Ah. As being a car salesman or
in a rental car. And Carme's first question is,
well, did you love it?
So.
>> Will (50:11):
Yes.
>> Sarah (50:13):
Yeah.
>> Will (50:13):
That's a theme that just recurs throughout,
throughout this season. you know, with, with.
With our, with our characters. And
Yeah. And you know, I think with the whole. With,
with losing the passion. You know, this is
especially something like being a world class chef. And I think
about Sydney talking, you know, whenever she shares a story about how
(50:34):
she goes to New York, you know, to like eat and
car, you know, to eat in Carmen's restaurant. So she has that
passion and she still has that passion even after all that
that's transpired. and
she still, you know, she still has that love
for this. And I think Carmy, you know, and the sad
thing is Carmy recognizes it in other people,
(50:54):
but, you know, but he just doesn't recognize those,
those great qualities about himself. which is,
which, which is really just makes. It breaks my heart
for the character.
>> Sarah (51:04):
Right. Right. He.
It's. It's very, it's very hard because like, as
you put it, there was growth,
but there's also still a little bit of
stagnation because. And why I
love the finale so much is because we're finally having
conversations that I've been waiting
(51:24):
two seasons for these people to have.
Okay. Two seasons
specifically. And this leads me to Richie because
like, I love how you get a good
15 minutes with just Carmy and Sid and
then Richie comes in and then it's about
the funeral that. And we. And and I can
(51:46):
appreciate that they made sure that the viewers
knew that Carmy wasn't lying.
Like he did go to the funeral. Uncle Lee has
confirmed it, but nobody else saw
him. And he did leave because it's
Carmy and he couldn't handle it because of the
guilt. But throughout the season
(52:06):
we also get many instances,
leading up to this moment where
Rich. Richie is still holding on to some things.
And, and through Jessica,
who was hired at the beginning of the season,
previously seen in season two,
(52:26):
we, we learn that,
that Richie,
Richie has always been envious
of Carmy because
at the end of the day
Carmy is still blood.
And Richie can be called cousin.
(52:48):
Richie can be the sand which. Such a
grid line.
He, he can be, he can be all those things,
but he will never be Mikey or
Natalie's true sibling. He will never be
Donna's child.
>> Will (53:03):
Right.
>> Sarah (53:04):
And that resentment,
I, I, I think why
this touches particular,
this speaks, to me is because
I deal with a similar
thing with one of my siblings,
(53:26):
and arguably all of my siblings because
we all have our own lives, but then again,
we grew up in the same house, so we have that history.
But there are people that I know,
know my, my brothers more than me.
And, and when I encounter
(53:47):
them, it is kind of this feeling like,
but you're the stranger. Like I should
know this, you shouldn't know this. And,
and it's a very, it's a very fine line,
but it's beautifully captured in this
conversation where, where we finally get
acknowledgment between Richie and
(54:07):
Carmy of their,
the resentment towards each other.
>> Will (54:13):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (54:14):
For just being who they are.
>> Will (54:16):
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
Yeah. I mean that, yeah, that, yeah, I mean that's,
that's the thing about, to your point about the, the, the, the
finale really was almost like a bottle episode that
even though it was technically the tenth episode of the season, it was
like it was a bottle episode for as
far as the last episode for the season because all
(54:37):
the, everything really,
all the major beats for the characters were all wrapped
up as far as the rest of the ensemble in
episode nine. But with this finale, you
know, it really, you know, because the bear really has become sort of
a core between Richie,
Sydney and, and Karmi
(54:59):
M. And, and so, you know, so for that
final episode to really focus on the three of them, you know, and
of course Natalie shows up at the end too. But I mean,
they are sort of that core because when I think about Richie
when we first met him in season one versus the Richie that
we see now, you know, to your, you
mentioned earlier how like all these other characters have like,
(55:20):
you know, you know, currently believed in them, mentored
them in his own, you know, no non
negotiables way, but
they have come together and coalesced. But now that, you know,
Richie now like owns that front staff. I mean he is, you
know, whenever, whatever at the end of the
episode, in episode 10 where, you know,
when Sid, when they, when he is just as much of
(55:43):
the bear as anybody else and when they
all made that offer to like, Sid made that
offer and, and Carm to like
make him that other partner, I mean, it
made sense. I mean that that whole thing made sense as
far as that, as far as where, where they landed with
that scene and, and the decisions. And I believe you know, and I
(56:03):
believed it because he really is that. That ex. That. That other
character. And I really like the moments that Richie
and Sydney had throughout the season. Like, you know, again, the
wedding, you know, he's out there having panic attacks prior to.
Prior to Tiff's wedding and, and you
know, you know, quoting Philip a dick and everything and
quotes and it's just. But, you know, you know,
(56:24):
thank instead for being there and then. And just other.
You know, they just all really. They are like. Like
you said, they really are family. Family. Not just work family.
>> Sarah (56:34):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's the.
With Richie this season,
through him, through Tiff
Tiffany, who is his ex wife,
who then her own mom doesn't
go to her wedding. None of her family goes to the wedding. Who
goes to the wedding? The brazados. But
(56:55):
when we say the brazados, we don't forget the
facts. Facts are there too. Don't forget
all of these other people. I mean, Marcus even
attends when he's the guest of someone
else who, who, Frank fired
and Frank is Tiffany's new husband.
So. And, and
(57:15):
I think they did such a good job
this season, particularly
about the Brazo family tree,
because we hear about it in
the wedding episode when
Claire and I forget his
name. One of the. The person
who's married to Sarah Paulson's character.
>> Will (57:38):
Stevie.
>> Sarah (57:39):
Stevie are, telling Frank
the family tree.
>> Will (57:45):
Yep.
>> Sarah (57:46):
Who people are. And it's
just. And. And you have to realize
Claire isn't a part of the family.
>> Will (57:54):
Nope.
>> Sarah (57:55):
And. And as. As, as Stevie
likes to point out, he's married into it
through like a second cousin adopted
twice removed. And then you have Richie
and, and, And Tiff,
who Tiffany herself, like her
dance with Uncle Jimmy.
(58:16):
It's so sweet because he,
he again in that moment,
basically reassures her that, like, it
doesn't matter if you are no longer married to
Richie. I mean, Richie's not even a part of our family
either.
>> Will (58:32):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (58:32):
For some reason we've adopted all of
these people. And. And then later
you get. You get Jessica throughout
the season inquiring about who people are.
There's a great moment wherein Natalie brings
Sophie into the kitchen. And,
there's conversations about attending the wedding and
(58:53):
all of these name drops and the. There's some
employees who don't know that. Who these
people are. And there's others who's like, yeah,
that's the second cousin of this person twice
removed. And it's.
It is a family. Family, but it's
just the world,
(59:15):
you know?
>> Will (59:16):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (59:17):
And, And I can. I think why
I like it so much is I honestly
don't know the details. Like, it's this weird
thing where, where I
see. Still haven't really gotten the full
PowerPoint on exactly who these
people are, nor do I care.
>> Will (59:36):
Yeah. Oh, I m. I see. And for me, it's just like,
I, I, this is like my family. I have.
Whenever they're like, I hear uncle so and so, auntie
so and so, or, you know, and growing
up, the same kind of thing like that. How was so and so related?
So, well, no, you know, they may not even be blood or they'd be
married in or whatever. But I mean, it, it's so, for me,
(59:57):
it's just so relatable because it's just like, oh, yeah, I, I know
this. And you probably have, you know, maybe the same situation in your family,
but not really. Okay. Yeah, but I do.
And it's, it's like, I get it. So, to me,
that. I think that's another thing that makes the show work. You know, it is
relatable to, like, people. People we know in real
life.
>> Sarah (01:00:15):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Will (01:00:16):
And, and the craziness, because I have had the fam. I've
had. I've had like, the presardo.
Bizarro. Bizarro. Bizarro.
>> Sarah (01:00:25):
sounds, like you're saying bizarro.
>> Will (01:00:27):
Yeah, I did say bizarro. Yeah. Because, yeah, it
is that the bear family like, dynamics and stuff,
and family get togethers that, like,
devolve into that. I've been around it, so I completely get
it.
>> Sarah (01:00:40):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So you understand
what happened between Natalie and, Francie
Fact. Right?
>> Will (01:00:47):
Hell, I don't.
>> Sarah (01:00:49):
Yeah, I don't. You know what?
I'm. I, I do think I have more of an
understanding than Pete does.
>> Will (01:00:56):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:00:57):
The moment Pete's like, you slept together,
like. Okay. But. But I
love that there was such a buildup. And also shout
out to Bri Larson, as you mentioned earlier,
that they, they did get
some really good, like, the guest stars
worked this season more so than last season.
(01:01:20):
And, and she. I, I was not
expecting her.
>> Will (01:01:24):
Nope, me neither.
>> Sarah (01:01:25):
She did not stick out. Because if you were
gonna. I mean, we've seen that. Who's the
Rosado girl? So, of course, if we're
gonna meet the female version of fac. Yeah, I think she did
a pretty good job.
>> Will (01:01:39):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:01:39):
And. And that moment
when Neil, ah, tells, Natalie
who he invited to the wedding.
>> Will (01:01:48):
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:01:49):
You will always be my sweet boy. Oh,
you did that I hate you. You have ruined me.
No, go ahead.
>> Will (01:02:05):
No, I was gonna say it was worth the facts me. Every time I'm like,
why? You know, sometimes they grade on me, but then it's just like they
have these moments like that one that you just shared. But why, why,
why? You need to have a facts around.
And also, and also the funny. You know, you have the,
the, the facts like, you know,
Neil and then he had the facts like,
(01:02:25):
like Frankie and Fanny,
Franny and as seen us. But you know, who was
the other.
Yep.
>> Sarah (01:02:33):
Yeah, yeah, Sammy. And then you have Teddy.
Teddy, who's the main one who we saw a lot more
this season in particular. but Neil,
even towards the end, he admits
that because he's getting kind of
promoted to a stage in front
of House. And he. He does a weird thing
(01:02:55):
when he walks with his hands and he
acknowledges to Richie is like this place is
fans fancy. and
I'm not there. There's also a
theme of all these people
not feeling goody self good, good enough
for it. Whether it be the kitchen,
(01:03:15):
whether it be the work family or the family. Family.
>> Will (01:03:19):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:20):
And that, that's the epitome of what
Carmy. And why Carmy is running away
again is because he doesn't feel good enough. Which is
bizarre because as we
pointed out and discussed, like, he helped
get these people to where they are and
he, like, he's created this thing and now he just
(01:03:40):
wants to walk away. But at the same
time, I also am like, if you got some to deal with,
you gotta go deal with that or else.
>> Will (01:03:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:03:49):
Like, I, I can also sympathize because
I, I feel like with
a lot of the brazado,
like even the family tree, we,
we only know so much about
the childhood trauma that
occurred. and, and borderline
abuse that occurred. So,
(01:04:14):
like, there it is.
It's kind of like I understand,
but it don't appreciate.
Don't appreciate.
yeah. Like,
like overall, for me,
as you. As you might have guessed, the finale is my favorite
(01:04:36):
episode of the season. I, I do
appre. The wedding. It's hard. The
Bears Episode 7, I go back and forth
on because I,
I. It's not fishes 2.0 for me.
It really is. It's not.
>> Will (01:04:52):
Nope.
>> Sarah (01:04:53):
But. And there are pieces I
really like. There's just something about the
pacing.
>> Will (01:05:00):
It dragged.
>> Sarah (01:05:02):
It drags. It is
a long episode and it feels like a long
episode. And,
and so I, don't know. I
go back and forth. But
yeah, I, I think I'm just biased
given that last week when we're talking about
Superman, I put out into the universe that
(01:05:25):
I can watch like a two hour movie of just two
people having an intense conversation.
Fast forward to the Bear season finale.
We had. We had three people have an
intense conversation and I was, I was here for
it. Granted, it was also the shortest episode of the
season. So I was also like, okay,
(01:05:46):
yeah,
but. And, and this isn't my favorite,
season of the Bear. I don't think anything will
ever top season two for me. But
I did. I did a. Two things
happened when I finished the first time.
I immediately wanted to start over again.
(01:06:08):
and I also was like, ah, ah, I wish I had time to go
back and watch season three again.
Because it tells me something
when by the end of the season I'm like,
I just want to hang out with these people some more. There's
something about being in this world that I enjoy,
so I just want to be here in a little bit
(01:06:29):
longer.
>> Will (01:06:33):
Totally.
>> Sarah (01:06:33):
Yeah.
>> Will (01:06:34):
Yeah. I mean, because. I mean, because that's, you know, there's so many other.
There's other things like, happened this season too, like, you know, such
payoffs with, with these characters like Marcus.
I mean, we haven't even talked talk, you know, this all, you
know, the whole, you know,
him being the, you know, name best new
chef by, Food and Wine magazine. I thought that was just, you know, and
(01:06:54):
just. And also, just like. And also his family drama. I mean,
because, you know, he kept texting his dad through. I think it was his
dad throughout the season about, you know, they were supposed to meet up and they
didn't, you know, he goes through the, he goes to the
cafe and then, you know, he, he bells.
and, and so, you know, so he's, you know, he's
got some, you know, unfinished business with, you know, with,
(01:07:15):
with, with his, that and also the whole, you
know, side story with his mom's house being sold and, and
his, you know, friend, you know, and the bad. And the,
the juju that was like, you know, the stories about
how, you know, homes being sold and, and
you know, does that create bad juju, you know, as far as talk about
family and transition.
>> Sarah (01:07:35):
Yeah. Yeah. I was just gonna
say his, interactions
or lack thereof with his father is very
similar to how Carmi's been avoiding his mother for
all these years. So,
so they, they parallel that very
nicely. His also his best
friend having a very awkward
(01:07:58):
encounter with Luca. which.
But again, it's, And I Don't know his
friend's name. Off the top of my head,
he. That character was
honestly also kind of being like.
Like, Sid's cousin, where you're
leaving me behind.
>> Will (01:08:17):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:08:18):
Like, I used to. I used to be the one where
you would have. And. And so you can see how
this new family and the growth
that these characters have. Have
caused friction with the relationships
that they had with others before who
are not on the same journey.
>> Will (01:08:39):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:08:39):
Which. And. And it's. And it's kind of like,
well, duh, people are
gonna grow. And. And also to them, like, he
has a very. Marcus has a very similar
reaction to when he, His friend says,
yeah, you guys want to go to hoots afterwards?
but it's like, okay, maybe.
(01:09:01):
If. But for Marcus, it's
just like, I'm gonna. I'm still. I'm doing
my job. You're still my friend. Nothing's changed. But
to his friend, it's like, you're leaving me
in the dust.
>> Will (01:09:13):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:09:14):
And so it's,
It's, An interesting side note to
put out there, in terms of.
As we head into a new season. So.
So. And I know that people watch this season
without that knowledge that there would be a season five.
I don't know. I guess I was like one of,
(01:09:36):
like, in the minority when I just thought of season
five would be automatic.
>> Will (01:09:42):
Yeah,
yeah, yeah. I remember whenever I broke the news,
you know, it broke right before. I think we recorded
that, that the show had been renewed because.
And, Like, of course it did. And I was like, no, no, it
was like, not. You know, and we. We had a whole discussion about whether
or not, you know, the reasons why
(01:10:03):
it was not a given that season, five was going to happen.
but, One last thing I want to just hit at too, as far as,
When you talked about,
paths of characters and stuff and is Ibrahim
story. Because the whole thing that sort of kicked off
this season two, what. You know, which was the big
over. The big thing hanging over the restaurant was the bad
(01:10:25):
review from, you know, the mixed review, I guess, from Chicago
Tribune, where, you know,
with. As far as the. The. The. The bear part
of the restaurant having, you
know, all over the place just like army. But the,
But the. The. But the. The lunch counter. The beef, you
know, was. Was really, you know,
(01:10:46):
was. They had great things to say about it.
And. And one thing I really appreciate about this show is each
season, you know, they. They do focus
on the. As an ensemble. So
everybody, like last Season, you know, had Tina's, you know, you
know, whole story backstory as far as like how she and
Mikey, you know, met and you know, after she lost her
(01:11:06):
job and you know, and she had. How she ended up at the Beef
and you know, you know, the summer, I can't remember,
was it sweets Sweet is the
>> Sarah (01:11:14):
I think so. I think so.
>> Will (01:11:16):
Yeah. You know, his, his story this season as
far as just like learning more. Marcus of course going off, you know,
learning from Luca and this season was Ibrahim and the
whole like, you know, meeting up with Al
to have you know, start talking
about franchising the lunch counter and, and
it's like how even in
(01:11:37):
even one of the big. The, the. The the the. The. The
fancy part of the restaurant was in the
red, you know, the, the, the. The lunch
takeout was successful and,
and you know, was, was helping to, you know, really carry
things along to the point that, you know, at the end computer
and Al had this conversation and they were like, you know,
(01:11:58):
let's, let's, let's talk, even. And, and
even. And so, you know, so that, that was,
that's another thing I do appreciate about this show is like, you
know, it truly isn't like an ensemble show and even the
have you know, real
significant arcs in their journey. So
that like, to, to your point, I do want to spend time
(01:12:20):
with these folks, even if it takes me a minute to get back into this
world at the beginning of the season. By the end of the
season I'm like, damn, I want more. I want more.
>> Sarah (01:12:29):
Yeah. Yeah, no, no, I, I
agree. It's, it's the. When you say
ensemble to me, it's just
equates to what we always talk about, like the
supporting cast. Their,
their
their arcs are just
(01:12:49):
as. Are not these
weird side stories. No,
they ah, they, they. There's a reason
there, there's something at the root of, of
the main character arc that
is occurring that it's connected
to. Sometimes it feels a bit loose, but,
(01:13:10):
but the Bear runs a pretty tight shift and I
mean the fact that the what
Abraham has been running successfully
is basically Michael's business.
>> Will (01:13:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (01:13:23):
Two hours of the day.
Like there's a strong connection there.
And I'd. We don't know if
Carmy and Natalie are going to be as on
board with the idea of Abraham taking that and
running away with it. like,
yeah, Abraham may be creating an opportunity,
(01:13:43):
but is he stealing a
family recipe? I don't know.
So, so it's I, I can also
appreciate how like
thank God this wasn't the last season because in a
way they left a lot open there.
This isn't a. Let me tie every single
(01:14:05):
threat. I mean they tied the ones that they needed to.
Sid made a decision and so did Carmy.
But Carmes is a bit. It's Carmy.
So bit wishy washy there. So
yeah, I'm. This season was
successful success for me.
brings me. Brought me back around for sure. For
(01:14:25):
sure on this show. I will probably end
up re. Watching the series at some
point later this year, but.
>> Will (01:14:32):
Agreed.
>> Sarah (01:14:35):
all right, well on that note, Will,
why don't you tell our listeners where they can find you?
>> Will (01:14:41):
Yes.
>> Sarah (01:14:43):
And drop the information about the Comic
Con live streams that you're going to be doing this
weekend.
>> Will (01:14:50):
Yeah. Yeah. So, as I noted, Comic Con
is this weekend and Saturday I'm going
to be doing a live stream of the Star
Trek hall each presentation.
you know, live reaction to it. they're gonna have
casted a Strange New World seats on the. On
the panel as well as the upcoming Starfleet
(01:15:10):
Academy show. So I definitely, definitely anticipate
probably some. Some teaser trailers for Strange
for Starfleet Academy which will premiere next year.
And also you know, as I joked earlier,
Star Star Trek panel and the paradise panel run up
against each other. So I'll have to like, you know,
I'll talk about it. For season two, we did get a.
(01:15:34):
A photo from some images of season two of
paradise, today from Entertainment Weekly.
And then last, going to also
try to live stream the Peacemaker
panel since they will have They. They will
also have a Hall H presentation as
on Saturday as well. So just
(01:15:54):
I'll. I'll have the
links up for those. So you just come to our.
To our. Our YouTube channel to. To join me
in the live stream and and we can all react to all
the, all the news from Comic Con.
>> Sarah (01:16:09):
Very cool. and where can our
listeners find you, Will?
>> Will (01:16:14):
Yes, you can find me on all the socials at. Ah Will
M. Polk W I L L M M P O L L.
>> Sarah (01:16:19):
K and you can find me there too at SJ
Belmont sjblmnt. Please follow our crew
on X, formerly known as Twitter at Scene and Nerd on Blue
Sky. Friend us on Facebook, follow us on Instagram and
threads at scene ncore nerd
and visit our website www.scenard
podcast.com but most importantly,
rate, follow and comment on, Apple Podcast,
(01:16:41):
Spotify, YouTube or wherever you get podcasts. Good night. Geek
out. You're welcome.
>> Will (01:16:54):
It.
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