May 27, 2025 • 61 mins
In this episode of Scene N Nerd, Sarah and Will dive into the thrilling season finale of "The Last of Us" Season 2, Episode 7, "Converge." They chat about Ellie’s intense moments and the tough choices she faces, all while reflecting on her past. It’s got that video game feel with a serious emotional punch!
They also discuss the character dynamics, focusing on Ellie, Jesse, and Dina’s moral dilemmas. Expect some heartfelt thoughts on community, sacrifice, and the complicated relationships in a post-apocalyptic world. Plus, they break down how this storytelling is shaping the season's buzz.
And when you think it’s over, they switch gears to share the latest Marvel news, including delays for "Avengers: Doomsday" and "Secret Wars," along with some juicy gossip about the new Harry Potter series.
With plenty of laughs and lively chats, this episode is a must-listen for fans of "The Last of Us" and pop culture!
0:00 Intro
1:00 "The Last of Us" Season 2 Episode 7 "Converge" chat
54:50 Marvel news and Harry Potter updates
Connect with us! Follow us on X, formerly Twitter, @SceneNNerd, Bluesky @SceneNNerd.bsky.social, Facebook, Instagram, and Threads @scene_n_nerd. Check out our website at www.scenennerdpodcast.com. If you enjoyed the episode, please leave us a rating and a comment on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast fix!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
>> Will (00:00):
Music
>> Sarah (00:13):
Greetings, Nerds This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, will Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will.
>> Will (00:19):
Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?
>> Sarah (00:23):
I'm doing good. I,
It was the Tuesday, which felt like a
long ass Monday as we were talking about
earlier now. But.
But in the back of my mind, I was like, well,
we're gonna eat good tonight because we have a very
controversial episode of television.
>> Will (00:44):
Yes, we do. Yes.
>> Sarah (00:48):
Oh, my God.
>> Will (00:50):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (00:52):
So, so controversial. And it's
just. That's so funny to me. But,
But, yeah, like, just to start
us off, Will, why don't you tell us your
thoughts on, the season finale of the Last
of Us. season two, episode seven converges
amid the battle between Seattle's warring
(01:13):
factions. Ellie searches search
draws towards a devastating
confrontation.
>> Will (01:21):
Yeah. So controversial,
controversial show, controversial
episode. and I. I had to.
I will say I thought it was fun.
I. As I
message you Sunday night after
we. After I watched it, I think I sent you a gif. That
(01:41):
was like. I mean, yeah.
because I. And it wasn't, And so
it wasn't that they switched that with the ending
where I was reacting to. It was just everything
else. I just really felt that this episode for
me was just all over the place and
it was fine, but it just kind
(02:03):
of captured my feelings
of. Of this season. It was, you
know, there were some high points and the rest of it was fine. I
mean, it wasn't bad. It was just
okay.
>> Sarah (02:19):
So when. When you say it was
all over the place.
Can you give me an example?
>> Will (02:26):
Yeah, I just. I just felt like it was.
I felt like I was watching a bunch of cut scenes put together.
>> Sarah (02:33):
Uh-huh. that's a fair point. Yeah.
>> Will (02:36):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, between the, you
know, we start off with the. With
we. With Ellie coming back from,
torturing Nora. And again, I guess part of it too
is just, you know, given the. And
we wondered about this, given that
how, you know, given that they shifted from
(02:57):
all the action in episode five, go
to episode six with the flashbacks, would
that interrupt the momentum that they had built
with this season? And. And now
I have to say it did. I mean, I loved episode six.
Don't get me wrong. I mean, it's. It was great. It
definitely, as I said last week, it definitely reminded
(03:17):
me, some of the things that, you know,
clearly Pedro and Bella, when they are paired
together, just amazing. I mean, and we saw that chemistry and
everything last week, but I Did. But
when we cut back to Seattle, day
three, it. It did. Did
interrupt the flow for me so that when
we. We do see Ellie coming back and of course
(03:40):
we start, in the, you know, in the
theater and, and Jesse and Dina and all that and
you know, it was, you know, we had that
scene and then, you know, we got this book trip with
the. To the. The scars
island and all. You know, it was just. I just didn't feel like it
had a good narrative. It didn't have a flow to me. as far as
(04:01):
the scenes. And then, I mean, we'll get into. Get into some
of the choices and, and things about
Ellie, you know, and, And. And just the
decision making of. Of all these folks. as we, as
we discussed, as you said, we definitely have a lot to. A lot to chew
on, but, those are. That's just sort of
initial thoughts as far as why it felt. Why, I
felt it was fine and just, you know, felt kind of choppy to me.
>> Sarah (04:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, it's a fair point.
and it's.
And you know this because you've seen the episode and you see
how it ends and I'm sure you've listened to
the podcast afterwards. Like,
it. It does feel like a bunch of cut scenes because it's all
from Ellie's perspective. And season three is
(04:45):
all going to be told from Abby's
perspective.
>> Will (04:49):
Right?
>> Sarah (04:50):
and then some. Yeah,
I. I think that's where what
people like, yes, season three
will detail from Abby's perspective
the three days in Seattle. But there's
more like
they're.
(05:10):
Arguably the way
the gameplay works that's
disjointed is that. Is that
you. You. You start off
with. With Ellie and you go through
this entire season and then you jump to Abby
and. And it's. And it's very similar
(05:31):
in the sense that it's like, well, well, why. Why
am I suddenly playing as the antagonist
and like, I don't care or like,
what is this? And then.
But. But it goes past the three days
and it goes into a lot more. And there's. There's a
lot more. But why I'm,
(05:52):
I'm saying that is because
I think overall, I mean,
besides this episode just feeling like
a bunch of cut scenes spliced together, which is
just so valid and I think is the best
way to describe this episode.
It's. This entire season
(06:14):
is set up for
next season and the payoff
for all of this, you have to
wait. Like the payoff in the game,
you don't wait.
>> Will (06:27):
Right. Yeah.
>> Sarah (06:29):
So I just. I.
I mean, I love the showrunners. I think they are
very smart, but I don't understand.
I understand their logic for how they
constructed this season, but you should
have shot season two and three back
to back. Exactly there.
(06:50):
You can't. You can't do it. You. There.
There is a. You're. And from what
I briefly saw, in, like two minutes,
they're losing viewership with this final
episode because they are, already taking some
missteps. They're. They're gonna have a
lower return rate because people
will a. Have forgotten
(07:14):
and also be like,
I, know, like they feel like they
know what they're. They're
getting into and they've already seen it and they don't
really care. Like, at no point
in. I, think the big failing
is at no
(07:36):
point in this season
is there anything other than the fact
that the Doctor was her dad
that gives any kind of like, oh,
well, I, I want to know.
Get to understand Abby more.
It just. And, And, And
(07:57):
I, I could have
predicted this.
And by this, I mean, of course, the events, because I know what
happens, but more importantly, the
overall response
way back in episode two.
>> Will (08:15):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (08:16):
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Will (08:18):
And I guess the other thing, too. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you
off. I mean, I guess, Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Sarah (08:23):
Oh, no, go. Go ahead. What's the other thing?
>> Will (08:26):
Yeah, I mean, I guess the other thing for me was just,
you know, to, to your
reacting to your point about shooting seasons two and three
together because, Because I think
the reaction I think people are having. I. Obviously, I didn't play
the game, but I do. But people,
they, you know, it was just. Just like the game is
(08:48):
playing out in live action. People reacted very
strongly and, and, and,
but. But to your point, at least with the
game, you know, you could have this. You know, you can
jump right into it. You know, a year
wait is, you know, fine. I mean, I get that. I mean, if we had to
wait till, you know, 2026, you know, summer,
(09:08):
that's fine.
>> Sarah (09:09):
But.
>> Will (09:10):
But to me, it. To your
point, I mean, it's probably best case. Best case,
we're looking at probably 20, 27, before we get back to the
show. and so. And TV will end. That is
a long time. I mean, to use you to think of another thing that we're
waiting for to drop. And up to the point where it's almost
like off the collective conscious for me is Stranger Things
(09:31):
as a. As an analogy, as far as, like, having
too long of a break between. Between seasons.
>> Sarah (09:37):
I. I thought you were gonna say special. Ah.
Spider man across the multiverse or whatever.
>> Will (09:43):
And that one, too. That's another one.
>> Sarah (09:48):
I've given up more on that than Stranger Things, but
I totally agree with your point.
>> Will (09:53):
Yeah. Yeah. It's just, Because.
Especially for us casuals who never play the game, and we, you
know, so.
>> Sarah (10:00):
But. So here's to play devil's
advocate.
>> Will (10:04):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (10:06):
Because.
Because we got through the season where
Abby's the villain because she
kills off the beloved Pedro
Pascal, AKA Joel.
>> Will (10:20):
She.
>> Sarah (10:21):
We get. We get. The viewers
get so much distance.
>> Will (10:26):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (10:27):
From that. That maybe.
And maybe by that point, it's just like, I just
want to return to the world. Like, I don't really care.
And. And also. Also, yes.
It's a rehash of some events.
Some events. Because not everything
that Ellie goes through, Abby goes through, I'll tell you that much.
(10:49):
But I. But
that. That it's enough distance where it's like,
oh, this feels familiar. Familiar. Like
deja vu almost. So. So
it could work to their benefit, I
don't think, viewership wise, it's going to. I think
people. What will happen. This is my
(11:09):
prediction. What will happen is people who
want to return will return.
And then if. If season three
is like, oh, my God, you
need to watch this, they're gonna
have. They're gonna, like, the. The
repeat viewership. Like. Like,
(11:30):
people will instantly start. It'll. There'll
be buzz and all of that, and I think it'll get a lot
of, like, oh, I missed it, but I'm watching.
I'm binge watching it now. Or. Yeah,
whatever.
>> Will (11:42):
Or. Or. Or there could. Yeah. There'll be any number of factors.
You know, there'll be the Hate Watch. They'll be the, Oh, yeah,
I. I mean, I think, you know, and I think they were trying to
give us this season a,
little bit of structure, you know, with introducing Abby the way
that they did in episode one, giving her
backstory, you know, changing things up to, you know, to basically
(12:03):
give us a give. Give viewers, especially
for newbies like me who didn't play the game. I mean,
I know enough about this character to be like,
oh, okay, you know, give us. Give us a.
Get us something to get. I almost say invested,
but at least interested.
>> Sarah (12:19):
yeah, well, it's. It's also goes
beyond Abby because. Because in
this episode, we. We get.
We get Owen and Mel.
>> Will (12:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (12:31):
And.
And. And we Just get a taste of it
and we. We find out
Mel's pregnant. Yeah, that was
Owen's child.
and. But there's also, like,
I'm not good at geometry, but you
(12:52):
got. You got three characters. Two are female, one is a
boy. Yep, yep. We got another love
triangle happening.
>> Will (13:01):
So.
>> Sarah (13:02):
So when. When Abby comes in at the end
and she says, you killed my friends. No,
no, no, no. That. That
is the simplest way,
like, to describe her dynamic with
especially Owen. Like. Like,
yeah. So what I'm. What I'm. What I'm
saying is, like, all of this season,
(13:25):
the. The. The execution of the season
really will only be determined in
hindsight because it'll be based on whether
or not they can actually deliver with season
three.
>> Will (13:38):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:38):
Because if season three fails, then
the entire. These. This season was a
waste. If season three, like, lives up to
expectations and then some.
Like, then people are gonna return to season
two and be like, okay, I understand
this now, and, and all of that. I
(13:59):
mean, granted, a lot of people probably also watch
the end and it was just like, well, I'm gonna. Because we're not
getting until 2027. Might as well go ahead and spoil
myself.
>> Will (14:08):
Yeah. Go play the game. Or go watch. Go watch all the
cutscenes.
>> Sarah (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And. And so I just. Before we move on
from Owen, and Mel, I do want to ask you.
>> Will (14:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:22):
a. At any point, did you think
Mel was pregnant during that scene?
>> Will (14:30):
I did not, actually.
>> Sarah (14:32):
Good.
>> Will (14:32):
No.
>> Sarah (14:32):
Good.
>> Will (14:33):
No, I did not. I mean, it. It definitely. It
was a good. Like I said, it was a good reveal. I mean, this is. This
was. That was one place where the season did do a good
job. But I mean, execution of things like
that, I felt this. I
thought the show kept that.
Kept it there. Their good edge there.
>> Sarah (14:54):
Right. I. I watched
the side by side comparison
with the cut scene in the. In the game.
And, because I. While watching it, I felt I was
like, there's something off about this. And it's because
in the game, what
happens is as the way
(15:15):
Owen dies is the same.
>> Will (15:18):
Right.
>> Sarah (15:18):
But with Mel, it's not a
single shot that goes through him and hits
her. Also, she ends up
getting into a knife fight.
>> Will (15:29):
Right.
>> Sarah (15:29):
Like, and then Ellie stabs
her.
>> Will (15:33):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (15:33):
And. And. And then it's revealed and
there's none of this. You got to take the baby out.
But, man, that was like.
>> Will (15:43):
Yeah. Yeah. So I. I did like that
change from the game.
>> Sarah (15:47):
yeah.
>> Will (15:48):
I think it too, because
up until the. Up until that point and, and
and really not only, not only in an
episode, but throughout since, you know, since
episode three. A suspend is vengeance question.
And, and you know, and so the, the
ver. The, the game version of it is definitely
(16:09):
the, the L. Ellie just completely
like, you know, whatever vestages of goodwill or
humanity that at
least in the TV version of Ellie, you know, it
hasn't been completely blinded because at that moment
she still, you know, she felt helpless. And
and also, you know, and she, and she did,
(16:31):
she did have, you know, when, after, after the fact she was like,
okay, we got to go back. You know, she, her humanity kicked in.
>> Sarah (16:37):
that happened in the game too. Don't get me wrong.
Still played out that way. Like Ellie's
Bella and Ellie like, or just
Ellie still has remorse because
of that realization. It hits her. I think
it was, I do agree. I do think it was
stronger, TV
(16:58):
wise, because, because of the performance and See,
I find, I'm glad you brought it up
like that because this leads me into the next thing I
wanted to talk about because
I, I, I thought this episode was fine.
But I've, I've been fine with
how everything is because I know
(17:19):
where, where we're headed. But
something that stuck out to me and kind of
drove me crazy.
Just, just a little annoyance
is, is it.
and I think this is where we're gonna diverge.
But I felt,
(17:40):
I felt annoyed with Ellie in this
episode because it felt like in one scene,
in one scene it's clear she wants to
go back. She's like, I'm not,
I'm not like you guys, I'm better than you.
And then, and then, but the moment she's talking to Jesse, it's
no, no, no, I'm going to do this
(18:01):
and I, and you are not better than me
because you want to go back to Jackson. Like it felt
so flip floppy to me where I'm
just like, girl,
figure out. Are you the, do you, are you ready to
be the villain or are you still adamant?
Like, like it's just,
(18:21):
it bothered me because it felt like she kept
contradicting herself with, with both her
words and her actions.
>> Will (18:29):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so we, we
agree. I completely. Yeah, that was, that was
part of the frustration that I had. But I also have to remember that,
okay, Ellie's a 19 year old kid.
>> Sarah (18:39):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Will (18:41):
and so, so, so she
is, you know, she is still driven by impulse and,
and so, so
from that standpoint I could see the irrationality
of it. But, but it, but I
Bother me. And I guess that was the other thing too is as far as how they've been writing
the characters this season, I, just feel like they've been.
(19:04):
It's been. I think that to me, where I
felt like the first season excelled over the second season
is the first season. I
felt like they trusted us as viewers
more to put. To connect the dots A to B to
C here to your point, as far as the flip flopping
and all that kind of stuff, they just,
(19:24):
they were like spoon. You know, there were things that they would
do the exposition dump of spoon feeding of stuff or
you know, just. Yeah, I just didn't. I don't feel like they
trusted us as viewers to like, you know, figure out, figure
out some of the things that were going on at this season. So I just
felt like they, they insulted our intelligence as far as,
you know, some of the, the choices of these characters making
(19:46):
very bad decisions, you know,
to this. Reckless decisions.
And. But, but to your point,
also, flip flop being one minute they're a protective
mode because, oh, now I'm gonna be a daddy. You know, both
Ellie. And then next minute they're like, oh, hell
no. Let's just. I'm gonna go across the Puget, you know, go
(20:06):
across the bay and you know, I'm gonna take Abby
out at the aquarium. or, or. Or
not, you know, or whenever the question about the whole
issue of Community came up.
>> Sarah (20:16):
right.
>> Will (20:17):
Yeah. So those were the kind of things. It was just like, okay.
And maybe that was intentional.
>> Sarah (20:23):
Well, well, so I,
I agree with you for the most part. I, I
don't, I can't recall a scene where I felt
like exposition dump. and I,
I don't know if we were spoon fed.
I, it's almost from my perspective, it's as if
we were not spoo.
(20:47):
But also. Hm. Let me take that
back. I think the problem
is, and this is something I said last
week, I think in season one.
Yes, the through line was Joel and Ellie,
but there were so many. There were a handful
of other stories told
(21:08):
this season though.
This was all Ellie.
>> Will (21:12):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:14):
And that's where the repetition,
the frustration, the going in
circles, the like, what was
it? Episodes, 5 and 4
felt like kind of the same thing. And it's just
like, okay, and, and then,
and when that leads me as a
(21:34):
viewer to suddenly be like
convenience.
>> Will (21:38):
Yep.
>> Sarah (21:40):
Was the other thing that drove me crazy about this
episode. They're standing on top of like a
skyscraper and she's like, oh, I figured out
the Whale wheel thing. Let me just head over there.
I. Okay. Tangent time
in Seattle. Okay.
I. I've been there a bunch of
(22:00):
times, but there was one
time when me and my dad, we were. I think it was
downtown Seattle and we were staying at a
hotel and we didn't have a rental car. And my dad
says, hey, look, there's a space needle. Let's walk.
We can walk to it four hours
later. Okay. Okay.
(22:21):
Yeah, four. Four hours. Okay.
So the moment she did that and then
the next thing I know, she's at the beach. I'm
like, hm,
convenience. There's
no way. There is no way. And
also the. Just
(22:42):
they spend so much time
throughout these episodes explaining, like, you
have the map. Like, Seattle's a big
place. So. So it felt like
in a few episodes we would. We would maybe
go a mile and. And then in this episode,
it felt like we went down to the beach, back to
(23:02):
the center of the city, like all over the place in
the same day. And I just like, no,
no, no. Or in the same night.
So that, like, like, they,
they. I understand. Because
they really wanted. They
really wanted this season told
(23:23):
through her perspective where the
viewers felt like they were experiencing the
emotions. Maybe this is the flaw.
Viewers already had so much love for. For
Pedro and for Joel. They
don't need to. To grieve the
way or see how Ellie is grieving
(23:44):
or processing this. And the path,
like, there needed to be
more so stories that
were told. And that's. I think that's why a lot of people did like
last week is because, yes, you had Joel and
Ellie, but you also had,
Katherine o' Hare's character and
(24:05):
Gail and Eugene and you got a little bit
of their story.
>> Will (24:09):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (24:10):
And. And, and the sad thing about it
is, ah. At the end of this episode, Jesse dies.
And, And. And
he's one of the constants where you're just like, I want to know
more about Jesse.
>> Will (24:23):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, this
episode, I. Yeah, I mean, this, this. Whenever
Jesse and Dina. Well,
especially. Especially just Jesse, whatever he was on
the screen. I just. That's
when I was engaged because, you
know, he, he, you know,
shared, you know, you know, we learned. We
(24:46):
learned so many things, with. About
him. You know, he had, you know, for example, when they
were. When they were sitting in the bookstore, the library
there, you know, he talked about how, you know,
he had an opportunity to. To,
you know, go with the group to
Mexico and, and, and, you
know, and had, you know, great two weeks of, you know, of.
(25:09):
Of his life. And all that.
But, you know, but at the same, you know, but
he, but he had this sense of community. And I know
and I know that what they were trying to do there with,
you know, him being the responsible community leader, you know,
future leader of Jackson versus, you know, in the whole
community thing. And you know, and you know, Ellie has
(25:30):
in some way sort of stepped into the role that
Joel did whenever he was having that conversation with Maria at the
beginning of this, you know, with the first episode about, community. So,
you know, so I know what, you know, so I get where they're trying to paint the
picture of, you know, and even, you know, to your point, you brought up Gail.
I mean, you know, I think about Gail and Tommy's conversation
in the, at the baseball game, you know, that Joel and Ellie are,
(25:51):
are basically, they're,
they're very similar as far as their personality types
and who they are. So you know, so I,
so whenever they had those moments during the episode,
I really like those moments because to your point, you know,
it added depth to the characters. It felt,
you know, it, it, it, you know, you know,
(26:11):
whenever they get into some of the story, the moral
questions and, and more philosophical things, I think this is
when the show really excels.
>> Sarah (26:19):
Yeah, yeah, it, it, it does
because it's what they
we come to expect with season one.
and it also, it's,
you can only have so much fight. Fight action.
>> Will (26:36):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:36):
And I will say, not a single infected
in this episode.
>> Will (26:40):
Nope, nope. Not not at all.
>> Sarah (26:42):
For better or for worse. Because arguably I'm like,
I, I saw the distance between where you were Ellie,
and where that, that aquarium was.
Okay, you're telling me you didn't run into a single freaking
infected?
>> Will (26:55):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:58):
There's so much of that that it,
it just, and, but there
it's so I,
I, I have thought in like the 48
hours since I've watched this episode, I have thought,
I'm like, I, I see that I have my criticism,
I, I, I know other people's
(27:20):
criticism. But then I go back and I'm
like, well, how would,
what could you, what would you do
besides potentially shooting them back
to back? Like how would you structure this
season any other, differently. And the
one thing that I kept circling back to
(27:41):
that I, I, we will never know if
this could happen. or
what the response would be is I
wonder if what they should have done
is this should have been Abby's season.
No, no Joel, no Ellie until the
end.
(28:03):
Or, or maybe arguably
like, like, or even telling
the three days through her perspective.
And at the end, like,
Ellie shows up and you're like, whoa, what's going
on here? And then, and then they might
mention or tease to like, well, you
(28:23):
killed this person. but you don't see
that until season three. Just, I just
wonder if,
because it's such a,
it's such a departure from
like, I mean, we didn't even spend that much time in
Jackson last season, but
(28:44):
still, coming into this season,
you're like, okay, we're gonna see life in Jackson.
Oh, by episode three, we' out of Jackson. This is
all about Seattle.
>> Will (28:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a very
interesting thought. yeah, because as, as you were, as
you were sharing that, I was thinking like, okay, how
if, if, if I were, if I were Neil Druckman and Greg
Mason, how would I, how, and
how would I structure this? And you know, and this is why I'm sitting
here talking to you instead of being a
showrunner of a, several
(29:16):
successful TV shows and, and and no Druckman, who
has created, you know, a, you know, epic, game
twice now.
>> Sarah (29:23):
Right.
>> Will (29:24):
But yeah, I, I,
I, I don't know. I don't.
Maybe if they had, if they, maybe if they
had more than seven episodes, maybe they could
have like done that type of structure
where you have thought, you know, you know, a,
a three, three,
(29:44):
you know, you know, three,
three, one or something like that. Or, or four, four, two.
>> Sarah (29:51):
Yeah, I, I think it needs to be more
than that. I, because
what you want is you
want,
Abby to suddenly be like, oh, okay,
so, or, or what you want is to be like,
oh, okay, we're, we're definitely
(30:11):
still in this post apocalyptic world, but now
we're following this other person. And then
as you follow the story,
they, they become like, I'm seeing the world
through their lens. This community,
emphasis on community, is now my community
in this world. And then the,
(30:32):
the, and then by
the course, because we had 10 episodes,
nine episodes with Abby with Joel and
Ellie.
>> Will (30:42):
I think season one was nine episodes.
>> Sarah (30:44):
Nine episodes. So, so you
almost need to give as much weight if
you're gonna introduce a whole new character and
a whole new world and, and
arguably community
that the viewers become attached to.
I will say there is one character that was not introduced
(31:04):
this season that I'm definitely looking forward
to because they are awesome.
Oh, I just, I can't wait. And they
are very critical to Abby's story.
>> Will (31:16):
So, like, story. Yeah. So
what did you think about? Because I know there's been
some. I know some of the discourse was
what was going on with, With Jeffrey
Wright, with, With Isaac. because I just felt,
again, to the point about cutscenes, this is one example where I
felt like this was a, a, a, a, a
(31:37):
scene that was just added because, you know, we have Jeffrey Wright, so we're
gonna, we're gonna use that. Jeff, Jeffrey F. And Wright. But
overall, I just didn't know how it, like, played through the
whole. With the rest of the episode.
I just seemed. Yeah, it just seemed kind of like, okay, we're just
gonna throw it in here and then. Or,
or was it for. To set or was it supposed to meant.
>> Sarah (32:02):
I. Everything is set up. Yeah,
everything. Because arguably this entire season is
set up because, like,
again, it's that continuation of.
We only got so much of the star fights in the
wlf.
>> Will (32:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:23):
Because only Ellie only knows so much.
But this season was told through her
perspective. So we as viewers are like, these
are crumbs. And, and
arguably that's why it, that scene in particular
probably felt thrown in there because it's
suddenly like, Abby's, not there.
Ellie's not there. Actually, scratch the first
(32:45):
part. Ellie's not there. So what are we doing?
Like, why do, why do we care? Like, it's so
random. They got away with it in the previous
episodes because they used them as cold
opens.
>> Will (32:56):
Right? Yeah. See, I was missing the cold open. I, I,
I was like, I thought of you as soon as the opening
credit started. I was like, well, no cold open this week.
>> Sarah (33:05):
So, so, so then when you,
when you put it that way, it's like, if they had
taken that scene, moved it to the beginning,
used it as a cold open, I, think it would it
have, yeah. Would it have worked better and would
it, like, not stuck out as much?
>> Will (33:22):
It would have worked so much better.
>> Sarah (33:24):
Right, Right. Like,
they're, I think
they just made missteps with this whole
idea of Ellie's perspective
where, Where I think
something that arguably
was so subtle in this episode
(33:45):
that, that I think because
of the, Everything else that is
being talked about regarding it, I think it's lost.
And they, it should have been given more time and really
fleshed out was this idea that,
in a way,
Ellie betrays Dina.
>> Will (34:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (34:07):
And I, and I say that way
because Dina,
up until this point has only
been given so much of the truth. Like, yes,
they, she knows that Ellie
is, is immune, but
she never, like, they never
(34:27):
made. Ellie never told her the
connection about that
immunity. Abby's
father and why Joel
died. Like, Joel died because
of his own choice. And he said it himself, he
would never not make that choice.
>> Will (34:48):
Yep.
>> Sarah (34:49):
That will always be his choice. And that's
something that Jesse or no
Tommy says in this episode. is
that they made their choices after,
after Ellie and cold blood kills a pregnant
lady. pregnant very much in
cold blood. And
(35:09):
so, so again you have these characters making
choices, but it's that idea
like I'm the hero and I'm right because I'm
doing this for me and community and
all like my family.
But, but then it goes back to, well,
is your family more important than my family?
>> Will (35:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (35:31):
Like, and that was Jesse's whole point. And that's why
I, I think you and others,
like we wanted more Jesse or
he felt like his scenes were like so
good because it was more of the
rationale and like a grounding
force in this very chaotic.
>> Will (35:50):
Yeah.
Yeah. He was to grown up in the room because
he, because he you know, even tell. You know, because you know,
Ellie all this time thought that, you know, possibly he was
one of the few votes that she received. And then
he's like, no, no.
>> Sarah (36:06):
And I, and I think, and you know, to go back to
Dina, like she finds out
the truth and even she's
now very subtly second guessing
but we don't get enough of it. Like
feels too quick with her. Like just like
are for argument's sake. It was too quick for that
(36:28):
kiss. Like, like, it was
like it was like you're not even gonna question this
immunity thing. Like, like,
like you don't have any questions about that.
But now like
so, so that could have been fleshed out more.
the, the other thing is the Tommy of it all.
(36:51):
Like I, I,
I wonder if, if
we had,
if they didn't, if they didn't go for
the Jesse saves Dina
and Ellie in the nick of time because they
followed them.
(37:12):
And, and we actually like went
back and forth between Ellie and Dina and then
Jesse and Tommy on their trail
like that. And then we could have gotten
some more insight into a
Tommy's whole grief process.
And also this whole talk
(37:34):
about like, but is what
Ellie doing selfish or
like and that's not really the moral dilemma. But like,
like this idea like she's seeking
vengeance versus
trying to protect Jackson.
Yeah, like,
(37:55):
like and, and
yeah, it's just. But she also.
There's a guilt there too that
I think they again I, the
the complexity of Ellie.
I think instead of be
being viewed and being explained
(38:18):
in a Very delicate way that
allowed all of the different layers to seep
through. It came off
as being very messy,
very sporadic
and just
clear. Vengeance. Or I'm a
(38:41):
scared little girl who misses her dad.
>> Will (38:44):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:45):
And it was, it's. It's too much.
And, and I think
that that's why
this season is being
viewed through the, through this lens of
chaoticness and just like, okay,
what, what. What are we doing? What. What are we doing
here?
>> Will (39:04):
What are we doing? Yeah, what are we doing?
>> Sarah (39:06):
Why do we care?
>> Will (39:07):
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's the. I mean, I guess I,
Yeah, maybe that's. I think that's the core. I just
like, why should I care? Why. Why should I be invested
in, in, in a vengeance story.
>> Sarah (39:20):
Yes.
>> Will (39:21):
And, and, and I've seen, you know, and we've seen.
And part of it is probably, you know, I'll
call a spade a spade. I mean, I think there is
some gender bias towards that.
You know, you know, because I think if this were a
male character, I think some of us,
including me, would probably, I mean, you know,
we'll probably view it a little bit differently. Give a little bit more grace,
(39:44):
I should say. I still will probably at the end of the
day be like, why, why, why should I care? But
I do think there, that there is some element of that
also.
>> Sarah (39:54):
Oh, I never thought about that, but
that's interesting. Ah, that.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, and also,
do you think, not just sexism, but
homophobia.
>> Will (40:08):
Ah, yeah, that too, yeah, I think,
yeah, I think both of those lenses, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I
think, I mean you just look at the discourse, you know, I've
been slowly creeping back into social media.
>> Sarah (40:20):
Yeah.
>> Will (40:21):
To see what the, to see what the discourse is about these shows.
And, and you know, and I think that
there is some element of that. yeah, I think that, you
know, but,
and so, but also like I said too
earlier, while we're recording them, I m. Do you know, I
also have to remind myself too that this is a 19 year old kid,
(40:42):
whether it's a male or female. And,
and so they're going to, they're
reacting in a way, ah. That a teenager would.
Versus and, and so, so
when the Jesse's of the world or the Maria's of
the world come up, you know, because Maria was also the same way too.
She's like, but the council, she's like, I gotta. I
(41:02):
got a bigger, you know, we, we have to like make sure
we gotta keep all our resources here in Jackson because they're you know, we
just, like, had the Horde attack here, so I'm glad, you know. You
know, you brought up Jack. You know, we spent time in Jackson that
actually, it was a very smart thing of them to, like,
put that in the show because it
gives, you know, because
(41:23):
adds to the discussions that we had
with Jesse and Ellie in this episode about
Community and the stakes as far as why this
was a bad idea to go off and do
this.
>> Sarah (41:36):
Yeah. And why Tommy
didn't go with her.
>> Will (41:40):
Exactly.
>> Sarah (41:41):
It's a, forgiving. It's a forgiveness thing,
too, because it's like in the back of your mind, you're like,
where's Tommy?
>> Will (41:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (41:50):
Which. Which I. I would like them to
explain about why they didn't utilize Tommy
more. but
maybe they're saving some stuff. I don't know.
But I. I do feel like. And. And I
can see why they. We spent majority of time
with Jesse because this, like, was going to be his last
episode, so you really wanted
(42:12):
to send. Send him off. Well,
and you. You still got
Tommy to. To play with, so.
>> Will (42:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:22):
Arguably.
>> Will (42:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Said he found out
he was gonna be a father. I was like, oh, he's dead. I don't need
a cutscene.
>> Sarah (42:30):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, you
don't need. You don't need to know. But
I,
I, I, What? So. So
speaking about, like, why do I care or anything.
>> Will (42:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:46):
Because I was. I was very
excited when I saw the stadium.
>> Will (42:52):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:55):
And then that triggered so many. There
is a sequence that
I am, And you know me well. This is an
action sequence, and this is
gameplay, and I am. I
am betting they're gonna do it. And it's
just. I will say this
(43:16):
a part of me, as much as I love,
Caitlin Deaver,
I wish, like, for this specific
sequence, I wish Florence Pugh was
cast.
>> Will (43:30):
The physicality of it. Oh, yeah.
>> Sarah (43:32):
Just because of what she did with thunderbolts. I'm
like, oh, my God. She would have had a field
day with this sequence. And so
I, like, I
seen that stadium.
>> Will (43:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (43:47):
It's just like, okay, we
saw, like,
10 of Seattle, y' all. Yeah.
Okay. Daisy, like, there. There is
some. There are some very cool a
characters, as I've previously teased,
and sequences that are in
(44:07):
store beyond just the
vengeance and, the
seeing things through Abby's perspective. Like,
they're. I
feel like in season three,
we are gonna go back and get some
more of those basics and get more of those
(44:28):
other stories that feed into your main
overall storyline. I
understand Like, I can. I. I
get why they did it this way.
but at the same time, I. I
feel like it was a missed opportunity
(44:49):
to put back on that. Well,
this worked this way in the game,
but the game players didn't even like that.
Maybe. Maybe we should have tweaked it a
little bit more.
So.
>> Will (45:06):
So, yeah. Speaking of which, there.
There was one thing, I guess. I think I read this somewhere.
but I guess the scene with the. To your point about set setting
things up, and the gameplay that. I guess the scene where
Ellie was on the island with the With the Seraphites,
that was supposed to be in the game, but it actually got cut out.
M. So I guess they were able to utilize. Utilize
(45:27):
it, for. For this, you know, in this episode.
you know, because something you said earlier, that,
whenever we're talking about Isaac and you know
what. You know, the things are going on with the WLF and.
And the. The war there.
So, I mean, so I guess they added. To your point, they added
this scene here just so they could have it, you know, show the
(45:48):
Seraphites, show what's going on. Probably what was going on with
Abby, you know, maybe.
>> Sarah (45:53):
Well.
>> Will (45:57):
I, might be. I don't want to. I want to say anything for folks.
I think. I think I know
possible something. So I don't want to say anything.
>> Sarah (46:05):
A spoiler alert. Say what you want to say.
>> Will (46:08):
All right. Spoiler alert. So
it. So spoiler alert. I. I want to say.
Was Abby like captured by the Seraphites as
she escaped prior to her getting to
the theater and you know, discovering.
Discovering the crew?
>> Sarah (46:25):
So people have pointed out that,
ah, if you look closely at Abby
at her throat, there is a clear scar
there from. From a rope.
So. So. So that I. I think.
I think that those who care have
probably seen a bunch of people point that out.
So. So I can. So
(46:48):
when you brought up that scene and saying how it was cut
from the game originally.
Well, I don't know if it's set up so much
as. Again, the point is
to try to do as much
mirroring as possible between these two.
So I think with Ellie and inserting the
(47:08):
scene where she fails
horribly on the boat, I don't know why she got back
on it only to be washed
ashore. And then she. She gets back pulled
away by not the wlf. She's
viewed by the Seraphites as a member of
the wlf. She's viewed
(47:28):
as part of Abby's community.
Yeah, like. Like
there are so Many similarities between
these two people that I think it just
furthers that.
And. And yeah, there. There's a reason. And.
And you could also make the argument that
(47:49):
if you watch Owen and Mel's
conversation, they. They
hint. I mean, Mel says that would put
you behind enemy lines. We know the enemies,
the Seraphites. Like, she.
Abby is clearly in a very
dangerous place because Owen
(48:09):
is going to risk it all to go after her.
So now what she's doing there and
how she got there, that has yet to be revealed.
But, yeah. Yeah.
>> Will (48:19):
Okay.
>> Sarah (48:20):
so there. I. I mean, I.
I really think you hit the nail on the hammer when you said
it just felt like a bunch of cutscenes. Because it is.
Because they can't.
They can't flesh out
these things because it's all through. It's.
Then that's telling Abby's story.
>> Will (48:40):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (48:41):
And so I think, So
maybe people got curious and are getting.
As time goes past, they get more curious about, like,
what did that mean? What was going on here? I
mean, like, you're. Like, you pointed out before, they
have Jeffrey Wright. Why did
Jeffrey Wright sign up for, like, two
(49:01):
scenes?
He's. He's got so, like, there.
The. It's a. It's a. It's a different story.
but something that I
think arguably did
work to an extent, even though
frustrating, even though a bit redundant, is
(49:23):
that this
same choice that Joel
made at the end of season
1M is just
ricocheting and reoccurring
in Seattle. And it's not.
It's not one choice. It's choices
(49:46):
and it's people.
>> Will (49:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (49:48):
And. And I. So.
So to an extent, they are building
that, there's just some
other structural and
creative choices that. That
argument argumentatively, they could
have made differently and could have done better.
and season three will tell us how much
(50:11):
season two worked.
>> Will (50:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I will say after our
conversation tonight, my. My,
My, score for this
episode definitely goes up from fine to. It was
really. Actually, it was pretty good.
>> Sarah (50:27):
Yeah. I. I think
that the initial watch,
like, it's like, okay, that was fine,
but the more you dissect it and
it's like, no, actually that. That was a
good episode of tv. it just.
The season overall leaves a bad taste in
(50:50):
everyone's mouth.
>> Will (50:51):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (50:52):
Because of. And. And it's not. Yeah, it's
the ending, but it's. It's. It's.
You could have. That ending could have worked
just like in any other TV show. It's all of the
events Leading up to it, like, yeah,
it's like. It's like people to walk
away and say, yeah, the ending sucked. Well,
(51:13):
you only feel that way because
the build up, like,
totally. It left you in this other
way, so.
>> Will (51:23):
No, no, because, I mean, to me, the ending worked great
for me. I mean, that was. That was the after. After
being frustrated for like, however many 40
minutes or 45, however long it was. I. Yeah, I was
just done. And then. And then we. Abby wakes up,
and I'm like, you know, and we get that
amazing scene at the stadium. And, you know, I'm
(51:43):
like, okay. You know, I was like, ah, Uh-huh. You
know, it's like, I get it, you know, so, you
know, so, you know, so for me, it was just like, oh, yeah,
it was just leading up to it, but, like. But as I
said, really dissecting it
and. And really discussing all the
disparate parts that were, like, pull together,
(52:04):
you know, in this episode. Yeah,
you know. Yeah, it was. It was. It was good. I
mean, I. I. You know, I said it was fine, but
it was good. It was a good episode. just.
Just at the end of the day, I think, just
overall, like, like we said earlier this
season, episodes four and five just kind of
(52:24):
felt like we were spinning our wheels, but, you know, but,
But I'm still. I'm still on the train. I'm not, You know, I
just. I just wish we could get the third season
sooner Than. Than. Than. Than. We'll
probably get it.
>> Sarah (52:37):
Yeah. Yeah, I
think,
it'll. It'll be here quicker than we realize.
It'll. It always happens that way.
I do just want to say, as a closing
thought, to quote Abby, I let you
(52:57):
live, and you wasted it.
Which. Which all. Ah, I hope
everyone, when she said that instantly went
back to when she was talking to
Joel, and Joel said, I saved you.
And she said in response,
what life? What life did you save?
(53:20):
M. Like, like, what life do I have?
So. So it's so, again,
the mirroring, albeit subtle
and disconnected, it is happening.
so, we shall flesh it all
out in 2027, if not
later.
>> Will (53:42):
Speaking of 2027, if not
later, before we close out any other things,
on Last of us are we. Can we move to quick? Quick.
>> Sarah (53:50):
That was a great, like, go tie
into this Avengers stuff. So I don't know.
>> Will (53:57):
Yes, that's exactly. That's exactly where I was
going, because we did get news that the
Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret wars
is Going to be pushed back for I guess
seven months each. I guess. The
Doomsday originally was going to premiere in May
2026, but now star wars has that month all to
(54:17):
itself. Because Doomsday is now going to be December
19, 2026. And Secret wars will
now be a year later, December 17,
2027.
Because it's all about, and it's all about box office.
Because that's December is the Chris is the month that you're gonna make all your
money now.
>> Sarah (54:37):
Oh, I thought it was because of cgi.
>> Will (54:41):
Well, probably. Well, I'm sure that's probably it,
but yeah, yeah, but, but I mean, I, I,
I, but let me remember, I think was it
no Way Home didn't come out December. It was like a two billion
dollar movie or something like that, so. Or 1.9
million dollar movie. billion dollar movie. So
this is all box office. to me, I think,
(55:02):
yeah. Water pushing it back.
>> Sarah (55:04):
Yeah, yeah, I think
they're, they're box office.
There's so many things. But
what, where did they originally have it? They originally had it in May,
right?
>> Will (55:18):
In m. May. Yeah. That was usually, that was like, yeah.
>> Sarah (55:20):
End game was in May.
>> Will (55:22):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (55:23):
So, so you could say box office, but
like to me it's just like, I
don't know because May is a, pretty much a box
office month as well in the past. So.
>> Will (55:35):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:36):
So like you can, you can
moving it later. It's not the best sign.
Like no, no studio ever wants to
push these things back. Which, which I'm
just like, you guys do it so constantly and
consistently. Why don't you just get better
ideas of when you like stop over
(55:56):
Promising.
>> Will (55:57):
Yeah, but I mean, you know, I think, you know, but the thing is,
everything is so scheduled and you know, they don't like
ladies really. There's not a random thing. I think as far
as these release dates, I mean because they are, they.
>> Sarah (56:08):
Are filming and why do they keep getting
delayed?
>> Will (56:12):
I'm telling you.
>> Sarah (56:17):
Okay, okay, so, so the
rock comes out and announces Black
Adam in 2014.
>> Will (56:25):
Yeah, yeah. That's not a good example.
>> Sarah (56:29):
Projects have been announced, canceled or
delayed. You know, like that, that's my
point. Point. I understand your point, but
I also considering
that May has, has also proven
to be very successful for box office.
>> Will (56:46):
It is.
>> Sarah (56:47):
I, I just, I, I, I
think like, I don't think it's random,
but I think whoever is deciding
these dates, they, they
suddenly got stupid.
>> Will (57:01):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:03):
There'S something in the water over there where
suddenly they're not as good as determining the dates
as they once were. That's all I'm saying.
>> Will (57:11):
yeah, well also I think, I think, I think the other
thing too is I think the old, the old way of like releasing
films is just, you know, we
used to know like yeah. Ah, May, you know, there are like
certain tent pole months. Obviously May's one of them because it is the
kickoff to the summer. You know, you do have that mid summer
blockbuster.
>> Sarah (57:29):
July.
>> Will (57:30):
July. and then December now is like, you
know, you know, causes Christmas. So you know, so those are,
those are the, so you know that way Star wars
now because Mandalorian is still currently scheduled
for May 2026. So now star wars
has that month all free and
to, to do his thing and, and now,
>> Sarah (57:50):
Well, you should have led with that because that makes
more sense in terms of property wise for
Disney.
>> Will (57:57):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:57):
Like why would you release two like those
two movies? To compete against each other. They're both
yours. So, so yeah, that makes War
way more sense in terms of box office
and money.
>> Will (58:10):
Yep.
>> Sarah (58:12):
the, the other thing that I,
I don't really want to get into but Will
has it on here, so I will say it. Harry Potter
cast little kids.
>> Will (58:23):
Yeah,
I, I, I was, I was torn because I'm, I'm kind
of done with the whole Potter thing. I mean.
Oh, maybe it's, well, maybe I'm just done with J.K. rowling and we
won. We don't have to, you know, and every, we
can just leave it there. Folks can, can
take it how they, they want. You know, I think
(58:43):
it's fair. But but I just hope the
Internet's and it, or sorry. I guess for me the other thing
too is the Internet is just being the
Internet. You know, people are just being dicks already with the whole
Hermione thing. So I mean, I guess I'm just
exhausted. I mean there's so many like,
you know, there's so many things in the world right now. Can we just like
(59:05):
just, just enjoy properties for what they
are? But no, we can't.
So this is why we can't have nice things.
>> Sarah (59:13):
Yep, exactly. That is perfect
way to end it. But you know what? You know what? Don't
worry. July will be here.
>> Will (59:21):
Yes.
>> Sarah (59:23):
I don't know why, we go through these spouts of
this is why we can't have nice things. And then we get nice things
and then we go back, we revert.
All right, well on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they
can find you.
>> Will (59:40):
Yes, you can find me at willmpolk on all the
socials. That's W I L L m P O l
k and you can find.
>> Sarah (59:47):
Me there too at SJ Belmont sjblm M O N
T. Please follow our crew on Twitter at Scene N Nerd,
on bluesky@cena nerd and friend us on Facebook.
Follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene, Underscore n
underscore nerd and Visit our website
www.scenanerdpodcast.com.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good night.
(01:00:10):
Geek out. You're welcome.
Music
>> Sarah (00:13):
Greetings, Nerds This is Scene N Nerd. I'm your host, Sarah Belmont, and with me, as
always, is our Mr. Producer, will Will Polk How are you doing tonight,
Will.
>> Will (00:19):
Doing very well, Sarah. How are you doing this evening?
>> Sarah (00:23):
I'm doing good. I,
It was the Tuesday, which felt like a
long ass Monday as we were talking about
earlier now. But.
But in the back of my mind, I was like, well,
we're gonna eat good tonight because we have a very
controversial episode of television.
>> Will (00:44):
Yes, we do. Yes.
>> Sarah (00:48):
Oh, my God.
>> Will (00:50):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (00:52):
So, so controversial. And it's
just. That's so funny to me. But,
But, yeah, like, just to start
us off, Will, why don't you tell us your
thoughts on, the season finale of the Last
of Us. season two, episode seven converges
amid the battle between Seattle's warring
(01:13):
factions. Ellie searches search
draws towards a devastating
confrontation.
>> Will (01:21):
Yeah. So controversial,
controversial show, controversial
episode. and I. I had to.
I will say I thought it was fun.
I. As I
message you Sunday night after
we. After I watched it, I think I sent you a gif. That
(01:41):
was like. I mean, yeah.
because I. And it wasn't, And so
it wasn't that they switched that with the ending
where I was reacting to. It was just everything
else. I just really felt that this episode for
me was just all over the place and
it was fine, but it just kind
(02:03):
of captured my feelings
of. Of this season. It was, you
know, there were some high points and the rest of it was fine. I
mean, it wasn't bad. It was just
okay.
>> Sarah (02:19):
So when. When you say it was
all over the place.
Can you give me an example?
>> Will (02:26):
Yeah, I just. I just felt like it was.
I felt like I was watching a bunch of cut scenes put together.
>> Sarah (02:33):
Uh-huh. that's a fair point. Yeah.
>> Will (02:36):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, between the, you
know, we start off with the. With
we. With Ellie coming back from,
torturing Nora. And again, I guess part of it too
is just, you know, given the. And
we wondered about this, given that
how, you know, given that they shifted from
(02:57):
all the action in episode five, go
to episode six with the flashbacks, would
that interrupt the momentum that they had built
with this season? And. And now
I have to say it did. I mean, I loved episode six.
Don't get me wrong. I mean, it's. It was great. It
definitely, as I said last week, it definitely reminded
(03:17):
me, some of the things that, you know,
clearly Pedro and Bella, when they are paired
together, just amazing. I mean, and we saw that chemistry and
everything last week, but I Did. But
when we cut back to Seattle, day
three, it. It did. Did
interrupt the flow for me so that when
we. We do see Ellie coming back and of course
(03:40):
we start, in the, you know, in the
theater and, and Jesse and Dina and all that and
you know, it was, you know, we had that
scene and then, you know, we got this book trip with
the. To the. The scars
island and all. You know, it was just. I just didn't feel like it
had a good narrative. It didn't have a flow to me. as far as
(04:01):
the scenes. And then, I mean, we'll get into. Get into some
of the choices and, and things about
Ellie, you know, and, And. And just the
decision making of. Of all these folks. as we, as
we discussed, as you said, we definitely have a lot to. A lot to chew
on, but, those are. That's just sort of
initial thoughts as far as why it felt. Why, I
felt it was fine and just, you know, felt kind of choppy to me.
>> Sarah (04:25):
Yeah. Yeah, I, I mean, it's a fair point.
and it's.
And you know this because you've seen the episode and you see
how it ends and I'm sure you've listened to
the podcast afterwards. Like,
it. It does feel like a bunch of cut scenes because it's all
from Ellie's perspective. And season three is
(04:45):
all going to be told from Abby's
perspective.
>> Will (04:49):
Right?
>> Sarah (04:50):
and then some. Yeah,
I. I think that's where what
people like, yes, season three
will detail from Abby's perspective
the three days in Seattle. But there's
more like
they're.
(05:10):
Arguably the way
the gameplay works that's
disjointed is that. Is that
you. You. You start off
with. With Ellie and you go through
this entire season and then you jump to Abby
and. And it's. And it's very similar
(05:31):
in the sense that it's like, well, well, why. Why
am I suddenly playing as the antagonist
and like, I don't care or like,
what is this? And then.
But. But it goes past the three days
and it goes into a lot more. And there's. There's a
lot more. But why I'm,
(05:52):
I'm saying that is because
I think overall, I mean,
besides this episode just feeling like
a bunch of cut scenes spliced together, which is
just so valid and I think is the best
way to describe this episode.
It's. This entire season
(06:14):
is set up for
next season and the payoff
for all of this, you have to
wait. Like the payoff in the game,
you don't wait.
>> Will (06:27):
Right. Yeah.
>> Sarah (06:29):
So I just. I.
I mean, I love the showrunners. I think they are
very smart, but I don't understand.
I understand their logic for how they
constructed this season, but you should
have shot season two and three back
to back. Exactly there.
(06:50):
You can't. You can't do it. You. There.
There is a. You're. And from what
I briefly saw, in, like two minutes,
they're losing viewership with this final
episode because they are, already taking some
missteps. They're. They're gonna have a
lower return rate because people
will a. Have forgotten
(07:14):
and also be like,
I, know, like they feel like they
know what they're. They're
getting into and they've already seen it and they don't
really care. Like, at no point
in. I, think the big failing
is at no
(07:36):
point in this season
is there anything other than the fact
that the Doctor was her dad
that gives any kind of like, oh,
well, I, I want to know.
Get to understand Abby more.
It just. And, And, And
(07:57):
I, I could have
predicted this.
And by this, I mean, of course, the events, because I know what
happens, but more importantly, the
overall response
way back in episode two.
>> Will (08:15):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (08:16):
Well, yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Will (08:18):
And I guess the other thing, too. I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you
off. I mean, I guess, Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Sarah (08:23):
Oh, no, go. Go ahead. What's the other thing?
>> Will (08:26):
Yeah, I mean, I guess the other thing for me was just,
you know, to, to your
reacting to your point about shooting seasons two and three
together because, Because I think
the reaction I think people are having. I. Obviously, I didn't play
the game, but I do. But people,
they, you know, it was just. Just like the game is
(08:48):
playing out in live action. People reacted very
strongly and, and, and,
but. But to your point, at least with the
game, you know, you could have this. You know, you can
jump right into it. You know, a year
wait is, you know, fine. I mean, I get that. I mean, if we had to
wait till, you know, 2026, you know, summer,
(09:08):
that's fine.
>> Sarah (09:09):
But.
>> Will (09:10):
But to me, it. To your
point, I mean, it's probably best case. Best case,
we're looking at probably 20, 27, before we get back to the
show. and so. And TV will end. That is
a long time. I mean, to use you to think of another thing that we're
waiting for to drop. And up to the point where it's almost
like off the collective conscious for me is Stranger Things
(09:31):
as a. As an analogy, as far as, like, having
too long of a break between. Between seasons.
>> Sarah (09:37):
I. I thought you were gonna say special. Ah.
Spider man across the multiverse or whatever.
>> Will (09:43):
And that one, too. That's another one.
>> Sarah (09:48):
I've given up more on that than Stranger Things, but
I totally agree with your point.
>> Will (09:53):
Yeah. Yeah. It's just, Because.
Especially for us casuals who never play the game, and we, you
know, so.
>> Sarah (10:00):
But. So here's to play devil's
advocate.
>> Will (10:04):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (10:06):
Because.
Because we got through the season where
Abby's the villain because she
kills off the beloved Pedro
Pascal, AKA Joel.
>> Will (10:20):
She.
>> Sarah (10:21):
We get. We get. The viewers
get so much distance.
>> Will (10:26):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (10:27):
From that. That maybe.
And maybe by that point, it's just like, I just
want to return to the world. Like, I don't really care.
And. And also. Also, yes.
It's a rehash of some events.
Some events. Because not everything
that Ellie goes through, Abby goes through, I'll tell you that much.
(10:49):
But I. But
that. That it's enough distance where it's like,
oh, this feels familiar. Familiar. Like
deja vu almost. So. So
it could work to their benefit, I
don't think, viewership wise, it's going to. I think
people. What will happen. This is my
(11:09):
prediction. What will happen is people who
want to return will return.
And then if. If season three
is like, oh, my God, you
need to watch this, they're gonna
have. They're gonna, like, the. The
repeat viewership. Like. Like,
(11:30):
people will instantly start. It'll. There'll
be buzz and all of that, and I think it'll get a lot
of, like, oh, I missed it, but I'm watching.
I'm binge watching it now. Or. Yeah,
whatever.
>> Will (11:42):
Or. Or. Or there could. Yeah. There'll be any number of factors.
You know, there'll be the Hate Watch. They'll be the, Oh, yeah,
I. I mean, I think, you know, and I think they were trying to
give us this season a,
little bit of structure, you know, with introducing Abby the way
that they did in episode one, giving her
backstory, you know, changing things up to, you know, to basically
(12:03):
give us a give. Give viewers, especially
for newbies like me who didn't play the game. I mean,
I know enough about this character to be like,
oh, okay, you know, give us. Give us a.
Get us something to get. I almost say invested,
but at least interested.
>> Sarah (12:19):
yeah, well, it's. It's also goes
beyond Abby because. Because in
this episode, we. We get.
We get Owen and Mel.
>> Will (12:30):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (12:31):
And.
And. And we Just get a taste of it
and we. We find out
Mel's pregnant. Yeah, that was
Owen's child.
and. But there's also, like,
I'm not good at geometry, but you
(12:52):
got. You got three characters. Two are female, one is a
boy. Yep, yep. We got another love
triangle happening.
>> Will (13:01):
So.
>> Sarah (13:02):
So when. When Abby comes in at the end
and she says, you killed my friends. No,
no, no, no. That. That
is the simplest way,
like, to describe her dynamic with
especially Owen. Like. Like,
yeah. So what I'm. What I'm. What I'm
saying is, like, all of this season,
(13:25):
the. The. The execution of the season
really will only be determined in
hindsight because it'll be based on whether
or not they can actually deliver with season
three.
>> Will (13:38):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (13:38):
Because if season three fails, then
the entire. These. This season was a
waste. If season three, like, lives up to
expectations and then some.
Like, then people are gonna return to season
two and be like, okay, I understand
this now, and, and all of that. I
(13:59):
mean, granted, a lot of people probably also watch
the end and it was just like, well, I'm gonna. Because we're not
getting until 2027. Might as well go ahead and spoil
myself.
>> Will (14:08):
Yeah. Go play the game. Or go watch. Go watch all the
cutscenes.
>> Sarah (14:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And. And so I just. Before we move on
from Owen, and Mel, I do want to ask you.
>> Will (14:21):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (14:22):
a. At any point, did you think
Mel was pregnant during that scene?
>> Will (14:30):
I did not, actually.
>> Sarah (14:32):
Good.
>> Will (14:32):
No.
>> Sarah (14:32):
Good.
>> Will (14:33):
No, I did not. I mean, it. It definitely. It
was a good. Like I said, it was a good reveal. I mean, this is. This
was. That was one place where the season did do a good
job. But I mean, execution of things like
that, I felt this. I
thought the show kept that.
Kept it there. Their good edge there.
>> Sarah (14:54):
Right. I. I watched
the side by side comparison
with the cut scene in the. In the game.
And, because I. While watching it, I felt I was
like, there's something off about this. And it's because
in the game, what
happens is as the way
(15:15):
Owen dies is the same.
>> Will (15:18):
Right.
>> Sarah (15:18):
But with Mel, it's not a
single shot that goes through him and hits
her. Also, she ends up
getting into a knife fight.
>> Will (15:29):
Right.
>> Sarah (15:29):
Like, and then Ellie stabs
her.
>> Will (15:33):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (15:33):
And. And. And then it's revealed and
there's none of this. You got to take the baby out.
But, man, that was like.
>> Will (15:43):
Yeah. Yeah. So I. I did like that
change from the game.
>> Sarah (15:47):
yeah.
>> Will (15:48):
I think it too, because
up until the. Up until that point and, and
and really not only, not only in an
episode, but throughout since, you know, since
episode three. A suspend is vengeance question.
And, and you know, and so the, the
ver. The, the game version of it is definitely
(16:09):
the, the L. Ellie just completely
like, you know, whatever vestages of goodwill or
humanity that at
least in the TV version of Ellie, you know, it
hasn't been completely blinded because at that moment
she still, you know, she felt helpless. And
and also, you know, and she, and she did,
(16:31):
she did have, you know, when, after, after the fact she was like,
okay, we got to go back. You know, she, her humanity kicked in.
>> Sarah (16:37):
that happened in the game too. Don't get me wrong.
Still played out that way. Like Ellie's
Bella and Ellie like, or just
Ellie still has remorse because
of that realization. It hits her. I think
it was, I do agree. I do think it was
stronger, TV
(16:58):
wise, because, because of the performance and See,
I find, I'm glad you brought it up
like that because this leads me into the next thing I
wanted to talk about because
I, I, I thought this episode was fine.
But I've, I've been fine with
how everything is because I know
(17:19):
where, where we're headed. But
something that stuck out to me and kind of
drove me crazy.
Just, just a little annoyance
is, is it.
and I think this is where we're gonna diverge.
But I felt,
(17:40):
I felt annoyed with Ellie in this
episode because it felt like in one scene,
in one scene it's clear she wants to
go back. She's like, I'm not,
I'm not like you guys, I'm better than you.
And then, and then, but the moment she's talking to Jesse, it's
no, no, no, I'm going to do this
(18:01):
and I, and you are not better than me
because you want to go back to Jackson. Like it felt
so flip floppy to me where I'm
just like, girl,
figure out. Are you the, do you, are you ready to
be the villain or are you still adamant?
Like, like it's just,
(18:21):
it bothered me because it felt like she kept
contradicting herself with, with both her
words and her actions.
>> Will (18:29):
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so we, we
agree. I completely. Yeah, that was, that was
part of the frustration that I had. But I also have to remember that,
okay, Ellie's a 19 year old kid.
>> Sarah (18:39):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Will (18:41):
and so, so, so she
is, you know, she is still driven by impulse and,
and so, so
from that standpoint I could see the irrationality
of it. But, but it, but I
Bother me. And I guess that was the other thing too is as far as how they've been writing
the characters this season, I, just feel like they've been.
(19:04):
It's been. I think that to me, where I
felt like the first season excelled over the second season
is the first season. I
felt like they trusted us as viewers
more to put. To connect the dots A to B to
C here to your point, as far as the flip flopping
and all that kind of stuff, they just,
(19:24):
they were like spoon. You know, there were things that they would
do the exposition dump of spoon feeding of stuff or
you know, just. Yeah, I just didn't. I don't feel like they
trusted us as viewers to like, you know, figure out, figure
out some of the things that were going on at this season. So I just
felt like they, they insulted our intelligence as far as,
you know, some of the, the choices of these characters making
(19:46):
very bad decisions, you know,
to this. Reckless decisions.
And. But, but to your point,
also, flip flop being one minute they're a protective
mode because, oh, now I'm gonna be a daddy. You know, both
Ellie. And then next minute they're like, oh, hell
no. Let's just. I'm gonna go across the Puget, you know, go
(20:06):
across the bay and you know, I'm gonna take Abby
out at the aquarium. or, or. Or
not, you know, or whenever the question about the whole
issue of Community came up.
>> Sarah (20:16):
right.
>> Will (20:17):
Yeah. So those were the kind of things. It was just like, okay.
And maybe that was intentional.
>> Sarah (20:23):
Well, well, so I,
I agree with you for the most part. I, I
don't, I can't recall a scene where I felt
like exposition dump. and I,
I don't know if we were spoon fed.
I, it's almost from my perspective, it's as if
we were not spoo.
(20:47):
But also. Hm. Let me take that
back. I think the problem
is, and this is something I said last
week, I think in season one.
Yes, the through line was Joel and Ellie,
but there were so many. There were a handful
of other stories told
(21:08):
this season though.
This was all Ellie.
>> Will (21:12):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (21:14):
And that's where the repetition,
the frustration, the going in
circles, the like, what was
it? Episodes, 5 and 4
felt like kind of the same thing. And it's just
like, okay, and, and then,
and when that leads me as a
(21:34):
viewer to suddenly be like
convenience.
>> Will (21:38):
Yep.
>> Sarah (21:40):
Was the other thing that drove me crazy about this
episode. They're standing on top of like a
skyscraper and she's like, oh, I figured out
the Whale wheel thing. Let me just head over there.
I. Okay. Tangent time
in Seattle. Okay.
I. I've been there a bunch of
(22:00):
times, but there was one
time when me and my dad, we were. I think it was
downtown Seattle and we were staying at a
hotel and we didn't have a rental car. And my dad
says, hey, look, there's a space needle. Let's walk.
We can walk to it four hours
later. Okay. Okay.
(22:21):
Yeah, four. Four hours. Okay.
So the moment she did that and then
the next thing I know, she's at the beach. I'm
like, hm,
convenience. There's
no way. There is no way. And
also the. Just
(22:42):
they spend so much time
throughout these episodes explaining, like, you
have the map. Like, Seattle's a big
place. So. So it felt like
in a few episodes we would. We would maybe
go a mile and. And then in this episode,
it felt like we went down to the beach, back to
(23:02):
the center of the city, like all over the place in
the same day. And I just like, no,
no, no. Or in the same night.
So that, like, like, they,
they. I understand. Because
they really wanted. They
really wanted this season told
(23:23):
through her perspective where the
viewers felt like they were experiencing the
emotions. Maybe this is the flaw.
Viewers already had so much love for. For
Pedro and for Joel. They
don't need to. To grieve the
way or see how Ellie is grieving
(23:44):
or processing this. And the path,
like, there needed to be
more so stories that
were told. And that's. I think that's why a lot of people did like
last week is because, yes, you had Joel and
Ellie, but you also had,
Katherine o' Hare's character and
(24:05):
Gail and Eugene and you got a little bit
of their story.
>> Will (24:09):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (24:10):
And. And, and the sad thing about it
is, ah. At the end of this episode, Jesse dies.
And, And. And
he's one of the constants where you're just like, I want to know
more about Jesse.
>> Will (24:23):
Yeah, yeah. I mean, honestly, this
episode, I. Yeah, I mean, this, this. Whenever
Jesse and Dina. Well,
especially. Especially just Jesse, whatever he was on
the screen. I just. That's
when I was engaged because, you
know, he, he, you know,
shared, you know, you know, we learned. We
(24:46):
learned so many things, with. About
him. You know, he had, you know, for example, when they
were. When they were sitting in the bookstore, the library
there, you know, he talked about how, you know,
he had an opportunity to. To,
you know, go with the group to
Mexico and, and, and, you
know, and had, you know, great two weeks of, you know, of.
(25:09):
Of his life. And all that.
But, you know, but at the same, you know, but
he, but he had this sense of community. And I know
and I know that what they were trying to do there with,
you know, him being the responsible community leader, you know,
future leader of Jackson versus, you know, in the whole
community thing. And you know, and you know, Ellie has
(25:30):
in some way sort of stepped into the role that
Joel did whenever he was having that conversation with Maria at the
beginning of this, you know, with the first episode about, community. So,
you know, so I know what, you know, so I get where they're trying to paint the
picture of, you know, and even, you know, to your point, you brought up Gail.
I mean, you know, I think about Gail and Tommy's conversation
in the, at the baseball game, you know, that Joel and Ellie are,
(25:51):
are basically, they're,
they're very similar as far as their personality types
and who they are. So you know, so I,
so whenever they had those moments during the episode,
I really like those moments because to your point, you know,
it added depth to the characters. It felt,
you know, it, it, it, you know, you know,
(26:11):
whenever they get into some of the story, the moral
questions and, and more philosophical things, I think this is
when the show really excels.
>> Sarah (26:19):
Yeah, yeah, it, it, it does
because it's what they
we come to expect with season one.
and it also, it's,
you can only have so much fight. Fight action.
>> Will (26:36):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:36):
And I will say, not a single infected
in this episode.
>> Will (26:40):
Nope, nope. Not not at all.
>> Sarah (26:42):
For better or for worse. Because arguably I'm like,
I, I saw the distance between where you were Ellie,
and where that, that aquarium was.
Okay, you're telling me you didn't run into a single freaking
infected?
>> Will (26:55):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (26:58):
There's so much of that that it,
it just, and, but there
it's so I,
I, I have thought in like the 48
hours since I've watched this episode, I have thought,
I'm like, I, I see that I have my criticism,
I, I, I know other people's
(27:20):
criticism. But then I go back and I'm
like, well, how would,
what could you, what would you do
besides potentially shooting them back
to back? Like how would you structure this
season any other, differently. And the
one thing that I kept circling back to
(27:41):
that I, I, we will never know if
this could happen. or
what the response would be is I
wonder if what they should have done
is this should have been Abby's season.
No, no Joel, no Ellie until the
end.
(28:03):
Or, or maybe arguably
like, like, or even telling
the three days through her perspective.
And at the end, like,
Ellie shows up and you're like, whoa, what's going
on here? And then, and then they might
mention or tease to like, well, you
(28:23):
killed this person. but you don't see
that until season three. Just, I just
wonder if,
because it's such a,
it's such a departure from
like, I mean, we didn't even spend that much time in
Jackson last season, but
(28:44):
still, coming into this season,
you're like, okay, we're gonna see life in Jackson.
Oh, by episode three, we' out of Jackson. This is
all about Seattle.
>> Will (28:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's a, that's a very
interesting thought. yeah, because as, as you were, as
you were sharing that, I was thinking like, okay, how
if, if, if I were, if I were Neil Druckman and Greg
Mason, how would I, how, and
how would I structure this? And you know, and this is why I'm sitting
here talking to you instead of being a
showrunner of a, several
(29:16):
successful TV shows and, and and no Druckman, who
has created, you know, a, you know, epic, game
twice now.
>> Sarah (29:23):
Right.
>> Will (29:24):
But yeah, I, I,
I, I don't know. I don't.
Maybe if they had, if they, maybe if they
had more than seven episodes, maybe they could
have like done that type of structure
where you have thought, you know, you know, a,
a three, three,
(29:44):
you know, you know, three,
three, one or something like that. Or, or four, four, two.
>> Sarah (29:51):
Yeah, I, I think it needs to be more
than that. I, because
what you want is you
want,
Abby to suddenly be like, oh, okay,
so, or, or what you want is to be like,
oh, okay, we're, we're definitely
(30:11):
still in this post apocalyptic world, but now
we're following this other person. And then
as you follow the story,
they, they become like, I'm seeing the world
through their lens. This community,
emphasis on community, is now my community
in this world. And then the,
(30:32):
the, and then by
the course, because we had 10 episodes,
nine episodes with Abby with Joel and
Ellie.
>> Will (30:42):
I think season one was nine episodes.
>> Sarah (30:44):
Nine episodes. So, so you
almost need to give as much weight if
you're gonna introduce a whole new character and
a whole new world and, and
arguably community
that the viewers become attached to.
I will say there is one character that was not introduced
(31:04):
this season that I'm definitely looking forward
to because they are awesome.
Oh, I just, I can't wait. And they
are very critical to Abby's story.
>> Will (31:16):
So, like, story. Yeah. So
what did you think about? Because I know there's been
some. I know some of the discourse was
what was going on with, With Jeffrey
Wright, with, With Isaac. because I just felt,
again, to the point about cutscenes, this is one example where I
felt like this was a, a, a, a, a
(31:37):
scene that was just added because, you know, we have Jeffrey Wright, so we're
gonna, we're gonna use that. Jeff, Jeffrey F. And Wright. But
overall, I just didn't know how it, like, played through the
whole. With the rest of the episode.
I just seemed. Yeah, it just seemed kind of like, okay, we're just
gonna throw it in here and then. Or,
or was it for. To set or was it supposed to meant.
>> Sarah (32:02):
I. Everything is set up. Yeah,
everything. Because arguably this entire season is
set up because, like,
again, it's that continuation of.
We only got so much of the star fights in the
wlf.
>> Will (32:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (32:23):
Because only Ellie only knows so much.
But this season was told through her
perspective. So we as viewers are like, these
are crumbs. And, and
arguably that's why it, that scene in particular
probably felt thrown in there because it's
suddenly like, Abby's, not there.
Ellie's not there. Actually, scratch the first
(32:45):
part. Ellie's not there. So what are we doing?
Like, why do, why do we care? Like, it's so
random. They got away with it in the previous
episodes because they used them as cold
opens.
>> Will (32:56):
Right? Yeah. See, I was missing the cold open. I, I,
I was like, I thought of you as soon as the opening
credit started. I was like, well, no cold open this week.
>> Sarah (33:05):
So, so, so then when you,
when you put it that way, it's like, if they had
taken that scene, moved it to the beginning,
used it as a cold open, I, think it would it
have, yeah. Would it have worked better and would
it, like, not stuck out as much?
>> Will (33:22):
It would have worked so much better.
>> Sarah (33:24):
Right, Right. Like,
they're, I think
they just made missteps with this whole
idea of Ellie's perspective
where, Where I think
something that arguably
was so subtle in this episode
(33:45):
that, that I think because
of the, Everything else that is
being talked about regarding it, I think it's lost.
And they, it should have been given more time and really
fleshed out was this idea that,
in a way,
Ellie betrays Dina.
>> Will (34:06):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (34:07):
And I, and I say that way
because Dina,
up until this point has only
been given so much of the truth. Like, yes,
they, she knows that Ellie
is, is immune, but
she never, like, they never
(34:27):
made. Ellie never told her the
connection about that
immunity. Abby's
father and why Joel
died. Like, Joel died because
of his own choice. And he said it himself, he
would never not make that choice.
>> Will (34:48):
Yep.
>> Sarah (34:49):
That will always be his choice. And that's
something that Jesse or no
Tommy says in this episode. is
that they made their choices after,
after Ellie and cold blood kills a pregnant
lady. pregnant very much in
cold blood. And
(35:09):
so, so again you have these characters making
choices, but it's that idea
like I'm the hero and I'm right because I'm
doing this for me and community and
all like my family.
But, but then it goes back to, well,
is your family more important than my family?
>> Will (35:30):
Yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (35:31):
Like, and that was Jesse's whole point. And that's why
I, I think you and others,
like we wanted more Jesse or
he felt like his scenes were like so
good because it was more of the
rationale and like a grounding
force in this very chaotic.
>> Will (35:50):
Yeah.
Yeah. He was to grown up in the room because
he, because he you know, even tell. You know, because you know,
Ellie all this time thought that, you know, possibly he was
one of the few votes that she received. And then
he's like, no, no.
>> Sarah (36:06):
And I, and I think, and you know, to go back to
Dina, like she finds out
the truth and even she's
now very subtly second guessing
but we don't get enough of it. Like
feels too quick with her. Like just like
are for argument's sake. It was too quick for that
(36:28):
kiss. Like, like, it was
like it was like you're not even gonna question this
immunity thing. Like, like,
like you don't have any questions about that.
But now like
so, so that could have been fleshed out more.
the, the other thing is the Tommy of it all.
(36:51):
Like I, I,
I wonder if, if
we had,
if they didn't, if they didn't go for
the Jesse saves Dina
and Ellie in the nick of time because they
followed them.
(37:12):
And, and we actually like went
back and forth between Ellie and Dina and then
Jesse and Tommy on their trail
like that. And then we could have gotten
some more insight into a
Tommy's whole grief process.
And also this whole talk
(37:34):
about like, but is what
Ellie doing selfish or
like and that's not really the moral dilemma. But like,
like this idea like she's seeking
vengeance versus
trying to protect Jackson.
Yeah, like,
(37:55):
like and, and
yeah, it's just. But she also.
There's a guilt there too that
I think they again I, the
the complexity of Ellie.
I think instead of be
being viewed and being explained
(38:18):
in a Very delicate way that
allowed all of the different layers to seep
through. It came off
as being very messy,
very sporadic
and just
clear. Vengeance. Or I'm a
(38:41):
scared little girl who misses her dad.
>> Will (38:44):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (38:45):
And it was, it's. It's too much.
And, and I think
that that's why
this season is being
viewed through the, through this lens of
chaoticness and just like, okay,
what, what. What are we doing? What. What are we doing
here?
>> Will (39:04):
What are we doing? Yeah, what are we doing?
>> Sarah (39:06):
Why do we care?
>> Will (39:07):
Yeah. Yeah. And I guess that's the. I mean, I guess I,
Yeah, maybe that's. I think that's the core. I just
like, why should I care? Why. Why should I be invested
in, in, in a vengeance story.
>> Sarah (39:20):
Yes.
>> Will (39:21):
And, and, and I've seen, you know, and we've seen.
And part of it is probably, you know, I'll
call a spade a spade. I mean, I think there is
some gender bias towards that.
You know, you know, because I think if this were a
male character, I think some of us,
including me, would probably, I mean, you know,
we'll probably view it a little bit differently. Give a little bit more grace,
(39:44):
I should say. I still will probably at the end of the
day be like, why, why, why should I care? But
I do think there, that there is some element of that
also.
>> Sarah (39:54):
Oh, I never thought about that, but
that's interesting. Ah, that.
Yeah, yeah. Oh, and also,
do you think, not just sexism, but
homophobia.
>> Will (40:08):
Ah, yeah, that too, yeah, I think,
yeah, I think both of those lenses, I mean. Yeah, I mean, I
think, I mean you just look at the discourse, you know, I've
been slowly creeping back into social media.
>> Sarah (40:20):
Yeah.
>> Will (40:21):
To see what the, to see what the discourse is about these shows.
And, and you know, and I think that
there is some element of that. yeah, I think that, you
know, but,
and so, but also like I said too
earlier, while we're recording them, I m. Do you know, I
also have to remind myself too that this is a 19 year old kid,
(40:42):
whether it's a male or female. And,
and so they're going to, they're
reacting in a way, ah. That a teenager would.
Versus and, and so, so
when the Jesse's of the world or the Maria's of
the world come up, you know, because Maria was also the same way too.
She's like, but the council, she's like, I gotta. I
(41:02):
got a bigger, you know, we, we have to like make sure
we gotta keep all our resources here in Jackson because they're you know, we
just, like, had the Horde attack here, so I'm glad, you know. You
know, you brought up Jack. You know, we spent time in Jackson that
actually, it was a very smart thing of them to, like,
put that in the show because it
gives, you know, because
(41:23):
adds to the discussions that we had
with Jesse and Ellie in this episode about
Community and the stakes as far as why this
was a bad idea to go off and do
this.
>> Sarah (41:36):
Yeah. And why Tommy
didn't go with her.
>> Will (41:40):
Exactly.
>> Sarah (41:41):
It's a, forgiving. It's a forgiveness thing,
too, because it's like in the back of your mind, you're like,
where's Tommy?
>> Will (41:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (41:50):
Which. Which I. I would like them to
explain about why they didn't utilize Tommy
more. but
maybe they're saving some stuff. I don't know.
But I. I do feel like. And. And I
can see why they. We spent majority of time
with Jesse because this, like, was going to be his last
episode, so you really wanted
(42:12):
to send. Send him off. Well,
and you. You still got
Tommy to. To play with, so.
>> Will (42:22):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:22):
Arguably.
>> Will (42:23):
Yeah. Yeah. Said he found out
he was gonna be a father. I was like, oh, he's dead. I don't need
a cutscene.
>> Sarah (42:30):
Yeah. Yeah. You know, you
don't need. You don't need to know. But
I,
I, I, What? So. So
speaking about, like, why do I care or anything.
>> Will (42:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:46):
Because I was. I was very
excited when I saw the stadium.
>> Will (42:52):
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> Sarah (42:55):
And then that triggered so many. There
is a sequence that
I am, And you know me well. This is an
action sequence, and this is
gameplay, and I am. I
am betting they're gonna do it. And it's
just. I will say this
(43:16):
a part of me, as much as I love,
Caitlin Deaver,
I wish, like, for this specific
sequence, I wish Florence Pugh was
cast.
>> Will (43:30):
The physicality of it. Oh, yeah.
>> Sarah (43:32):
Just because of what she did with thunderbolts. I'm
like, oh, my God. She would have had a field
day with this sequence. And so
I, like, I
seen that stadium.
>> Will (43:46):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (43:47):
It's just like, okay, we
saw, like,
10 of Seattle, y' all. Yeah.
Okay. Daisy, like, there. There is
some. There are some very cool a
characters, as I've previously teased,
and sequences that are in
(44:07):
store beyond just the
vengeance and, the
seeing things through Abby's perspective. Like,
they're. I
feel like in season three,
we are gonna go back and get some
more of those basics and get more of those
(44:28):
other stories that feed into your main
overall storyline. I
understand Like, I can. I. I
get why they did it this way.
but at the same time, I. I
feel like it was a missed opportunity
(44:49):
to put back on that. Well,
this worked this way in the game,
but the game players didn't even like that.
Maybe. Maybe we should have tweaked it a
little bit more.
So.
>> Will (45:06):
So, yeah. Speaking of which, there.
There was one thing, I guess. I think I read this somewhere.
but I guess the scene with the. To your point about set setting
things up, and the gameplay that. I guess the scene where
Ellie was on the island with the With the Seraphites,
that was supposed to be in the game, but it actually got cut out.
M. So I guess they were able to utilize. Utilize
(45:27):
it, for. For this, you know, in this episode.
you know, because something you said earlier, that,
whenever we're talking about Isaac and you know
what. You know, the things are going on with the WLF and.
And the. The war there.
So, I mean, so I guess they added. To your point, they added
this scene here just so they could have it, you know, show the
(45:48):
Seraphites, show what's going on. Probably what was going on with
Abby, you know, maybe.
>> Sarah (45:53):
Well.
>> Will (45:57):
I, might be. I don't want to. I want to say anything for folks.
I think. I think I know
possible something. So I don't want to say anything.
>> Sarah (46:05):
A spoiler alert. Say what you want to say.
>> Will (46:08):
All right. Spoiler alert. So
it. So spoiler alert. I. I want to say.
Was Abby like captured by the Seraphites as
she escaped prior to her getting to
the theater and you know, discovering.
Discovering the crew?
>> Sarah (46:25):
So people have pointed out that,
ah, if you look closely at Abby
at her throat, there is a clear scar
there from. From a rope.
So. So. So that I. I think.
I think that those who care have
probably seen a bunch of people point that out.
So. So I can. So
(46:48):
when you brought up that scene and saying how it was cut
from the game originally.
Well, I don't know if it's set up so much
as. Again, the point is
to try to do as much
mirroring as possible between these two.
So I think with Ellie and inserting the
(47:08):
scene where she fails
horribly on the boat, I don't know why she got back
on it only to be washed
ashore. And then she. She gets back pulled
away by not the wlf. She's
viewed by the Seraphites as a member of
the wlf. She's viewed
(47:28):
as part of Abby's community.
Yeah, like. Like
there are so Many similarities between
these two people that I think it just
furthers that.
And. And yeah, there. There's a reason. And.
And you could also make the argument that
(47:49):
if you watch Owen and Mel's
conversation, they. They
hint. I mean, Mel says that would put
you behind enemy lines. We know the enemies,
the Seraphites. Like, she.
Abby is clearly in a very
dangerous place because Owen
(48:09):
is going to risk it all to go after her.
So now what she's doing there and
how she got there, that has yet to be revealed.
But, yeah. Yeah.
>> Will (48:19):
Okay.
>> Sarah (48:20):
so there. I. I mean, I.
I really think you hit the nail on the hammer when you said
it just felt like a bunch of cutscenes. Because it is.
Because they can't.
They can't flesh out
these things because it's all through. It's.
Then that's telling Abby's story.
>> Will (48:40):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (48:41):
And so I think, So
maybe people got curious and are getting.
As time goes past, they get more curious about, like,
what did that mean? What was going on here? I
mean, like, you're. Like, you pointed out before, they
have Jeffrey Wright. Why did
Jeffrey Wright sign up for, like, two
(49:01):
scenes?
He's. He's got so, like, there.
The. It's a. It's a. It's a different story.
but something that I
think arguably did
work to an extent, even though
frustrating, even though a bit redundant, is
(49:23):
that this
same choice that Joel
made at the end of season
1M is just
ricocheting and reoccurring
in Seattle. And it's not.
It's not one choice. It's choices
(49:46):
and it's people.
>> Will (49:48):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (49:48):
And. And I. So.
So to an extent, they are building
that, there's just some
other structural and
creative choices that. That
argument argumentatively, they could
have made differently and could have done better.
and season three will tell us how much
(50:11):
season two worked.
>> Will (50:13):
Yeah. Yeah. I will say after our
conversation tonight, my. My,
My, score for this
episode definitely goes up from fine to. It was
really. Actually, it was pretty good.
>> Sarah (50:27):
Yeah. I. I think
that the initial watch,
like, it's like, okay, that was fine,
but the more you dissect it and
it's like, no, actually that. That was a
good episode of tv. it just.
The season overall leaves a bad taste in
(50:50):
everyone's mouth.
>> Will (50:51):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (50:52):
Because of. And. And it's not. Yeah, it's
the ending, but it's. It's. It's.
You could have. That ending could have worked
just like in any other TV show. It's all of the
events Leading up to it, like, yeah,
it's like. It's like people to walk
away and say, yeah, the ending sucked. Well,
(51:13):
you only feel that way because
the build up, like,
totally. It left you in this other
way, so.
>> Will (51:23):
No, no, because, I mean, to me, the ending worked great
for me. I mean, that was. That was the after. After
being frustrated for like, however many 40
minutes or 45, however long it was. I. Yeah, I was
just done. And then. And then we. Abby wakes up,
and I'm like, you know, and we get that
amazing scene at the stadium. And, you know, I'm
(51:43):
like, okay. You know, I was like, ah, Uh-huh. You
know, it's like, I get it, you know, so, you
know, so, you know, so for me, it was just like, oh, yeah,
it was just leading up to it, but, like. But as I
said, really dissecting it
and. And really discussing all the
disparate parts that were, like, pull together,
(52:04):
you know, in this episode. Yeah,
you know. Yeah, it was. It was. It was good. I
mean, I. I. You know, I said it was fine, but
it was good. It was a good episode. just.
Just at the end of the day, I think, just
overall, like, like we said earlier this
season, episodes four and five just kind of
(52:24):
felt like we were spinning our wheels, but, you know, but,
But I'm still. I'm still on the train. I'm not, You know, I
just. I just wish we could get the third season
sooner Than. Than. Than. Than. We'll
probably get it.
>> Sarah (52:37):
Yeah. Yeah, I
think,
it'll. It'll be here quicker than we realize.
It'll. It always happens that way.
I do just want to say, as a closing
thought, to quote Abby, I let you
(52:57):
live, and you wasted it.
Which. Which all. Ah, I hope
everyone, when she said that instantly went
back to when she was talking to
Joel, and Joel said, I saved you.
And she said in response,
what life? What life did you save?
(53:20):
M. Like, like, what life do I have?
So. So it's so, again,
the mirroring, albeit subtle
and disconnected, it is happening.
so, we shall flesh it all
out in 2027, if not
later.
>> Will (53:42):
Speaking of 2027, if not
later, before we close out any other things,
on Last of us are we. Can we move to quick? Quick.
>> Sarah (53:50):
That was a great, like, go tie
into this Avengers stuff. So I don't know.
>> Will (53:57):
Yes, that's exactly. That's exactly where I was
going, because we did get news that the
Avengers Doomsday and Avengers Secret wars
is Going to be pushed back for I guess
seven months each. I guess. The
Doomsday originally was going to premiere in May
2026, but now star wars has that month all to
(54:17):
itself. Because Doomsday is now going to be December
19, 2026. And Secret wars will
now be a year later, December 17,
2027.
Because it's all about, and it's all about box office.
Because that's December is the Chris is the month that you're gonna make all your
money now.
>> Sarah (54:37):
Oh, I thought it was because of cgi.
>> Will (54:41):
Well, probably. Well, I'm sure that's probably it,
but yeah, yeah, but, but I mean, I, I,
I, but let me remember, I think was it
no Way Home didn't come out December. It was like a two billion
dollar movie or something like that, so. Or 1.9
million dollar movie. billion dollar movie. So
this is all box office. to me, I think,
(55:02):
yeah. Water pushing it back.
>> Sarah (55:04):
Yeah, yeah, I think
they're, they're box office.
There's so many things. But
what, where did they originally have it? They originally had it in May,
right?
>> Will (55:18):
In m. May. Yeah. That was usually, that was like, yeah.
>> Sarah (55:20):
End game was in May.
>> Will (55:22):
Yeah, yeah.
>> Sarah (55:23):
So, so you could say box office, but
like to me it's just like, I
don't know because May is a, pretty much a box
office month as well in the past. So.
>> Will (55:35):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (55:36):
So like you can, you can
moving it later. It's not the best sign.
Like no, no studio ever wants to
push these things back. Which, which I'm
just like, you guys do it so constantly and
consistently. Why don't you just get better
ideas of when you like stop over
(55:56):
Promising.
>> Will (55:57):
Yeah, but I mean, you know, I think, you know, but the thing is,
everything is so scheduled and you know, they don't like
ladies really. There's not a random thing. I think as far
as these release dates, I mean because they are, they.
>> Sarah (56:08):
Are filming and why do they keep getting
delayed?
>> Will (56:12):
I'm telling you.
>> Sarah (56:17):
Okay, okay, so, so the
rock comes out and announces Black
Adam in 2014.
>> Will (56:25):
Yeah, yeah. That's not a good example.
>> Sarah (56:29):
Projects have been announced, canceled or
delayed. You know, like that, that's my
point. Point. I understand your point, but
I also considering
that May has, has also proven
to be very successful for box office.
>> Will (56:46):
It is.
>> Sarah (56:47):
I, I just, I, I, I
think like, I don't think it's random,
but I think whoever is deciding
these dates, they, they
suddenly got stupid.
>> Will (57:01):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:03):
There'S something in the water over there where
suddenly they're not as good as determining the dates
as they once were. That's all I'm saying.
>> Will (57:11):
yeah, well also I think, I think, I think the other
thing too is I think the old, the old way of like releasing
films is just, you know, we
used to know like yeah. Ah, May, you know, there are like
certain tent pole months. Obviously May's one of them because it is the
kickoff to the summer. You know, you do have that mid summer
blockbuster.
>> Sarah (57:29):
July.
>> Will (57:30):
July. and then December now is like, you
know, you know, causes Christmas. So you know, so those are,
those are the, so you know that way Star wars
now because Mandalorian is still currently scheduled
for May 2026. So now star wars
has that month all free and
to, to do his thing and, and now,
>> Sarah (57:50):
Well, you should have led with that because that makes
more sense in terms of property wise for
Disney.
>> Will (57:57):
Yeah.
>> Sarah (57:57):
Like why would you release two like those
two movies? To compete against each other. They're both
yours. So, so yeah, that makes War
way more sense in terms of box office
and money.
>> Will (58:10):
Yep.
>> Sarah (58:12):
the, the other thing that I,
I don't really want to get into but Will
has it on here, so I will say it. Harry Potter
cast little kids.
>> Will (58:23):
Yeah,
I, I, I was, I was torn because I'm, I'm kind
of done with the whole Potter thing. I mean.
Oh, maybe it's, well, maybe I'm just done with J.K. rowling and we
won. We don't have to, you know, and every, we
can just leave it there. Folks can, can
take it how they, they want. You know, I think
(58:43):
it's fair. But but I just hope the
Internet's and it, or sorry. I guess for me the other thing
too is the Internet is just being the
Internet. You know, people are just being dicks already with the whole
Hermione thing. So I mean, I guess I'm just
exhausted. I mean there's so many like,
you know, there's so many things in the world right now. Can we just like
(59:05):
just, just enjoy properties for what they
are? But no, we can't.
So this is why we can't have nice things.
>> Sarah (59:13):
Yep, exactly. That is perfect
way to end it. But you know what? You know what? Don't
worry. July will be here.
>> Will (59:21):
Yes.
>> Sarah (59:23):
I don't know why, we go through these spouts of
this is why we can't have nice things. And then we get nice things
and then we go back, we revert.
All right, well on that note, Will, why don't you tell our listeners where they
can find you.
>> Will (59:40):
Yes, you can find me at willmpolk on all the
socials. That's W I L L m P O l
k and you can find.
>> Sarah (59:47):
Me there too at SJ Belmont sjblm M O N
T. Please follow our crew on Twitter at Scene N Nerd,
on bluesky@cena nerd and friend us on Facebook.
Follow us on Instagram and threads at Scene, Underscore n
underscore nerd and Visit our website
www.scenanerdpodcast.com.
but most importantly, rate, follow and comment on Apple
Podcast, Spotify, YouTube, or wherever your podcast. Good night.
(01:00:10):
Geek out. You're welcome.
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