Podcasting Best Practices or Myths? Let's Find Out!

In today's episode, we're going to pull back that curtain on podcasting best practices. And some of these conventions are grounded in logic and proven results, and others might just be myths that we're just blindly following. I explain why I think these are legit, and explain why some of these are not accurate. As always your audience may be different than mine, but based on 20 years in podcasting, these are the just some of the best practices I teach at the School of Podcasting.

Why is Recording a Test Episode before launch a Podcast Best Practice?

1. Authors have rough drafts
2. Athletes have pre-season
3. Actors have dress rehearsal
4. When you publish the first thing you record, you are essentially publishing a "rough draft." Anytime you do something for the first time, it's not as good as the second.

Why is Defining a Clear Topic or Niche a Podcast Best Practice?

1. It makes it easy to create content. If I'm making dinner for a bunch of vegans, I know what I can make and what I couldn't.
2. This makes it easier to market. Now instead of marketing to Vegans, Carnivore, or those who are Glucose Intolerant, etc.
3. You can also lump this in with the advice of "Know your audience."
4. What appears is a downside may be an upside: a smaller but more loyal audience.

Why Is Getting to the Topic ASAP a Podcast Best Practice?

1. Do you have a ton of free time?
2. Look at Netflix, when an episode is over it give you an option to skip the credits and go to the next episode. When you go to the next episode, it prompts you to skip the intro. This leads me to believe it is best to get to the content asap.

Why is Knowing Why Your Are Podcasting a Podcast Best Practice?

1. When a podcaster doesn't get the result they had hoped to receive, they quit (often before their 10th episode).
2. If you were hired by a company to earn more money, and then they paid you the same (or less) would you stay?

Why is Engaging with Audience and Creating a Community a Podcast Best Practice?

1. The previous best practice was "Get to know your audience." This is how you get to know them.
2. This can be on social, email, anyway you can interact with your audience you should do it.

Why is Prioritizing Sound Quality a Podcast Best Practice?

1. You want it to be EASY to consume your content. You don't want the audience to strain to consume your content. Reverb or "room noise" can become a serious issue when the listener is in a car with the noise of the tires on the road. Think of it this way,  smear vaseline on your glasses and try to watch something. You can do it, but it takes extra effort. We need it to be EASY
2. Even in videos, the key ingredient is not lighting but audio. If I can see you but can't hear you what's the point.
3. You don't need to spend thousands of dollars on equipment. You can get started with a Samson Q2U microphone. If you want to do video, you can get a pair of Rode Wireless Micro microphones and use your phone as a camera.

Why is Knowing What You're Going to Say Before Your Press Record a Best Practice?

1. I always say, less planning equals more editing. This can lead to it taking longer to produce an episode
2. While you want it to feel conversational like a phone call with your best friend, it is a performance for a global audience.
3. Without focus, you again tend to ramble, repeat...

Episode Transcript

(03:18):
Today on episode number 1004.Have you ever wondered if the podcasting
rules that you follow areactually helping you succeed? Well,
in today's episode, we'regoing to pull back that curtain on
podcasting best practices. Andsome of these conventions are grounded
in logic and proven results,and others might just be myths that

(03:41):
we're just blindly following.Hit it, ladies. The School of Podcasting
with Dave Jackson. Podcastingsince 2005, I am your award winning
hall of fame podcast coach,Dave Jackson, thanking you so much
for tuning in. If you're newto the show, welcome aboard. This

(04:02):
is why I help you plan, launchand grow your podcast. My website
is schoolofpodcasting.com usethe coupon code listnr when you sign
up for either a monthly,quarterly, or yearly subscription.
And of course, that comes witha money back guarantee. Now, what
kind of guarantee? We'retalking 30 days, not seven, not 14.

(04:25):
30. Check it out.Schoolofpodcasting.com so I was at
a conference and I totally getthe point that you should always
be yourself because beingsomeone else is a lot of work and
no one else is better at beingyou than you. But there was, there

(04:48):
was a hint that maybe some ofthe ways that people are doing it
is a little old. And there,there was just a hint. A hint that
some of the. And I'm going touse giant air quotes here because
it's, you know, bestpractices, like, oh, you know, those
OGs and their best practices,that kind of vibe. Not a strong one.

(05:12):
Just a hint. And when I hear,I'll let you know, this kind of when
people go, oh, man, that'sjust an OG thing. As an og, you've
just got my attention. Becausea lot of times what comes out of
someone's mouth then is, in myopinion. What's the word for it again?
Oh, that's right, Nonsense.And so I thought today I would very

(05:36):
professionally and confidentlyexplain some of these. Now, let me
give you an example of what Ifeel is a best practice. Don't put
your hand on a hot stove. Now,why do we call that a best practice?
Because it's been practiced.And it turns out the best way to
not get burned is to not putyour hand on that. Now, when I was

(05:59):
five years old, I stood nextto the stove, There was a cast iron
skillet on it, and my sisterwas frying bacon, and she accidentally
hit the handle to where itcame off the stove. And I can tell
you that hot bacon grease onyour leg is not a fun time. I've
never Seen my. I still don'tunderstand to this day. My dad somehow

(06:22):
jumped out of bed, much likeSuperman, just had a cape on. He
was in his robe, ran down thehallway, picked me up by my neck,
and stuck me in the bathtub.It was really interesting. But that's
why I say, you know, bestpractices. There's actually a podcast
named this. Don't Cook BaconNaked. Yeah, that's a best practice.

(06:44):
So let's talk about somepodcasting best practices. Number
one, here's one that Irecommend all the time, and yet most
people don't do it. But here'sit. Why is recording a test episode
before you launch a podcastbest practice? Well, number one,
authors, they have roughdrafts. When I wrote my book Profit

(07:09):
from youm Podcast, it wentthrough five different edits. And
there was a point when I waslike, what are we looking for here,
kids? Like, didn't we get itin the last four? But authors have
rough drafts, and athleteshave preseasons. Actors have dress
rehearsals. In a previouslife, I was a musician, and we never

(07:31):
came out of the basementshorter than maybe four months because
you had to learn 40 songs. Sowhen you publish the very first thing
you record, and I get it,you're like, look at that. It took
me 17 hours to make this MP3file. I get it that you're like,
I just want this thing out.I'm here to tell you I get it. I'm

(07:52):
just saying you areessentially publishing a rough draft.
I mean, anytime you doanything for the first time, the
first time you tied yourshoes, probably awful at it. First
time you shot a basket,probably not very good at it. First
time you rode a bike. Yeah, Istill got skinned knees. Yeah, the
first time you do something,it's not as good as the second. Now,

(08:13):
hold on. This doesn't mean yourecord your first episode, like,
37 times, but you will learnthings. And often when you know that
you're not going to publishit, it kind of takes some of the
pressure off. So keep that inmind. That's why it's a best practice.
Because, you know, otherpeople, actors, athletes, musicians,

(08:38):
people that are in theentertainment business. And whether
you like it or not, whenyou're a podcaster, you're in the
entertainment business. That'swhy I say that. Number two, why is
defining a clear topic orniche a podcast best practice? Now,
I often call this know whoyour audience is, but there's actually

(08:59):
many reasons for this. Numberone, podcasting is kind of hard.
It's simple, right? Find outwhat your audience wants and give
it to them. But the way it'sdelivered, there are all sorts of
things like this that make ita little challenging. And so when
you know who your audience isand you have a niche, it makes it
easier to create content. Solet's take this out of the podcasting

(09:22):
space, which is what I love todo. A lot of times, things make more
sense when you get it awayfrom podcasting. So if I'm making
dinner for a bunch of peoplecoming over and I find out, oh, by
the way, they're all vegans, Iknow what I can make and what I shouldn't.
So when you know who youraudience is, it's easier to make

(09:42):
content for them. This also,then there's a double bonus here.
It makes it easy to market,because now instead of marketing
to vegans and carnivores andanyone who's glucose intolerant and
all that other stuff, youknow, diabetics. No, I only have
to focus on the vegans, soit's easier to market. Saves you

(10:05):
time. There you go. Now, whatsometimes appears as a downside is
you end up with a smalleraudience, because instead of having
the vegans and the carnivoresand the glucose and the diabetics
and the. Whatever. Thosepeople that like pineapple on their
pizza. Right. Instead ofhaving you, you have one group. And

(10:28):
to. Again, let's take this outof podcasting. I like American football,
but I don't follow collegefootball at all. But that's football.
So. Okay, let's niche down.Let's just talk about the NFL, which,
between you and me, I kind offeel is a little evil. But anyway,

(10:49):
let's talk about the NFL.Well, now you've got, I think, four
different divisions, and so wecould talk about the NFL, but do
I really care about theSeattle Seahawks? No. Because I live
nowhere near Seattle. Youknow, so maybe let's go down to my
division, which I should know,but I don't because my team is awful.
It's the Cleveland Browns.We've had 41 quarterbacks. Yeah.

(11:12):
Since they came back. Theyleft and now they've come. They're
awful. You suck. And so Imight care more about, you know,
the Pittsburgh team andCleveland and Cincinnati and whoever
else is in my division. Yeah.Now it's a smaller audience, but
I would care about what'sgoing on with those people, because
those are the people that I'mtrying to beat to get to the Super

(11:34):
Bowl. But do I really careabout the Pittsburgh Steelers? Not
really. Sorry, Vinnie. I knowyou're a huge fan and. But if I did
a show that was just about theCleveland Browns, boy, would it be
sad. That would be the name ofit. We call our stadium the Factory
of Sadness. And you know, sonow when I talk about just the Cleveland
Browns, okay, a much smalleraudience, but the people we are known

(12:00):
in Cleveland. I actually livein Akron, Ohio, but the Cleveland
fans are known for theirenthusiasm. They are very, very fanatic
about their team. So I'veniched down, or niche, take your
pick. To one team. Muchsmaller audience, but much more fanatic.

(12:21):
Much more likely to buy gearand swag and bark at people. So that's
the advantage of having aniche. It's easier to make content
because you know who you'retalking to. It's easier to market
because you only need to gowhere those people are, not where
everyone is. And you end upwith a more loyal, more fanatic fan

(12:47):
base. And there is no right orwrong answer here. How often or how
far you niche down? As alwayswith podcasting, it depends. 3. Why
is getting to the topic assoon as possible a podcast best practice?

(13:09):
To which I ask you a simplequestion. Do you have a ton of free
time? I don't, but maybe youdo. But let's look at Netflix when
you're binging something.Right now I've been binging Franklin
and Bash, and when I'mwatching it and an episode is over,

(13:30):
I can click a button and skipthe credits to which it goes to a
new episode where I can, youguessed it, skip the intro. So with
this in mind, that leads me tobelieve that getting to the actual
content is something that'spopular. Now, if you disagree with

(13:51):
that, again, it's your show.We'll talk about chit chat a little
later. But for me, the bestpractice is introduce the show so
people know what the show'sabout. Introduce the the content,
whatever the episode is about,and then get to that content as soon
as possible. Number four, whenI worked as a customer service representative,

(14:16):
this is like a lifetime ago.The worst thing you can do to now
for me, it was a customer, butit could be an audience, is to ask
them their opinion and thenignore them. Wow, that's bad. And
so this one is why is engagingwith audience, and probably even

(14:37):
better, creating a community abest practice? And this is kind of
like we go back to know youraudience, right? You know, get to
know your audience, make aniche all that well. How do you get
to know them? Oh, there's anovel idea. Maybe reply to every
email Maybe reply to everycomment and every comment on YouTube,

(14:58):
and if you're on WordPress andwherever it is, always do that. And
when somebody says, hey, Dave,let's say that I really like that
show, Such and such and such.Hey, thanks so much for listening.
I might even ask them, like,why did you like it? And then I always
end with, is there somethingelse you'd like to hear me talk about
on the show? Because this ishow you get to know your audience,

(15:22):
by actually talking to them.So again, this could be on social.
It could be email. Any waythat you can interact with your audience,
you should do it. Because Iknow that you know that I know that
you know that I know. But whenthey email you, they're emailing
the host of the show. Show,show. Right. And when you email them

(15:44):
back, they're like, oh, mygosh, the host of the show. Show,
show, show emailed me. Meme. Ican't believe it. Believe it. Believe
it. Right? It's. They'refreaking out. Which is weird, because
you know that I know that youknow that I know that I'm just in
a spare bedroom talking into amicrophone. But that's an easy way
to build that relationship andhave a better understanding of your

(16:04):
audience, which goes back tothat dinner party we were talking
about. Okay, now we know we'retalking to vegans, but what do the
vegans want? So that's whythat is a best practice. Number five,
why is prioritizing soundquality a best practice in podcasting?
Well, I don't know. What if Isounded like this? There you go.

(16:24):
That's not horrible at all. Iwant to listen to this for three
hours or just think about it.If I do this. Oh, that's handy. Great.
And then there's this one.Okay, wonderful. Yeah, that's not
gonna work. It. Okay, so whenyou want it to be easy. I can't do

(16:45):
that. That's ridiculous. Youwant it to be easy to consume your
content. You don't want youraudience to strain to consume your
content. So reverb. I probablygot some of that lying around here
somewhere. One of these isreverb. Nope. This one. This one.

(17:06):
There we go. When your showsounds like this and then you're
listening on the highway andyou've got the sound of, you know,
tires on. Yeah, that'sridiculous. It becomes a serious
issue. That's the thing Inoticed when I was driving, driving
to different conferences, Iwas like, man, if your volume is
all over the place and thingslike that, here's another Way again,

(17:28):
let's take it out ofpodcasting. Do you wear glasses?
I wear glasses. And just thenext time you go to watch your favorite
TV show, take your glasses andsmear them with Vaseline and try
to watch something you knowyou can do it, right? I can watch,
you know, whatever Seinfeldreruns through my Vaseline dripping

(17:51):
glasses. It's going to take alittle extra effort, and we want
it to be easy. I mean, even invideos, if you're doing YouTube,
the key ingredient, it's notlighting, it's audio. Because if
I can't hear what you'resaying, what's the point of if you're
in the dark or not? It'sridiculous. So keep that in mind.
And also, you don't have tospend thousands of dollars on equipment.

(18:15):
I recommend you start off withaudio first, and then later, once
you get the hang of makingcontent, then jump into video and
you can get started off a linkin the show notes with something
like a Samsung Q2U. Right now,I'm using a Rode PodMic USB. The
Q2U is under 100 bucks. TheRode PodMic USB is around 200. If

(18:36):
you want to do video again,you could get the Rode Wireless micro
microphones. These are okay.Like, any lavalier is going to be
okay. But then you can startwith your phone instead of spending
thousands of dollars on acamera. But yes, a best practice
is make your podcast sound asgreat as you can for your budget.

(19:00):
And again, you don't have tospend thousands of dollars. Number
six. All right, this, I'mgoing to admit this is a bit of a
rerun of get to the topic assoon as possible. But I'm here to
tell you I hear people dothis, sadly, on a fairly regular
basis, and that is they pressrecord before they know what they're
going to say. And I've heardshows where they're like, well, are

(19:24):
we going to talk about thething in the Times or the Post or
I don't know, what do you wantto do? And this is the beginning.
This is your first impression.So I would recommend knowing what
you're going to say before youpress record. Now, this does not
mean writing a script, unlessyou want to write a script, but at
least knowing when you hitrecord. Today, I'm going to talk

(19:46):
about blank, right? And forme, again, introduce the show, introduce
the topic, and then get to thetopic instead of going, I don't know,
what do you want to do? Didyou want to. I thought we were talking
about something. Hey, thanksfor letting me know. You're really
unorganized. Number seven,having a clear call to action. Why
is this important? Becausethere's a reason you're podcasting.

(20:10):
You have your own reason. Itmight be to be seen as an expert
or to reach a goal, butwhatever it is. But if you don't
get your why, you're going toburn out. From my chair. People that
don't get their why are like,I don't even know why I'm doing this
anymore. Well, what's yourwhy? Oh, I wanted blah, blah blah.
Okay, well, are you gettingblah blah blah? And they go, no,

(20:33):
not a. Not a single blah,blah, blah has come my way. And I'm
like, well, that's why youwant to quit. So by having a clear
call to action, it helps youraudience know what to do. Now, I've
actually, I remember once Ihad a client that said, we're not
getting any kind of engagementwith our calls to action. And they

(20:55):
had eight, count them, notseven, not nine, eight calls to action.
And I'm here to tell you, ifyou give. And I am guilty of this
as well, it's hard to do onecall to action at a time. Notice
what I added there at a time.So what I mean by that is in the
middle, if you want to say,maybe use it as a transition. You're

(21:16):
listening to the Blah Blahshow with blah blah. Subscribe to
our newsletter at blah blahblah.com newsletter and then you
go into another subject.That's one call to action. Easy to
remember versus like me onTwitter, Facebook, face on the book,
chat of the thing and thethread and the blah blah and the
thing. Nobody's going toremember that. So. And say them clearly

(21:38):
have links to them in the shownotes. That's not even what I have
written down. That will. Youwill get a sternly written letter
from me if you have a gueston. You talk about their book and
I go to the show notes andthere is no link. You will get a
sternly written email from me,but have a clear. So that's. That's

(22:00):
a bonus tip. Always have linksto things you talk about. I just
heard a show. They weretalking to some SEO guy and he said,
oh, the tool I use. And Iforget what it was. Why? Because
they didn't have it in theshow notes. And I'm like, wait, if
the SEO guy's using it, I atleast want to check it out. No link
in the show notes. So butgetting back to my original one and

(22:21):
that is have a Clear call toaction. Say it slowly. Specifically.
Specifically. Yeah,specifically and confidently. We're
leaving that in. Have yourcall to action and then have the
call to action in your show.Notes. Remember, we want to make
it easy. Number eight, pick aschedule and stick to it. Be consistent.

(22:44):
Because what this does is youbecome part of someone's routine.
I listen to The showpodcasting 2.0 every Friday night
when it's there. And this isalso consistent with your schedule,
but you become part ofpeople's routine. I start off my
day by listening to JamesKridlin. I listen to the newsworthy.
Those are two things I listento. Typically in the shower, you

(23:07):
become part of someone'sroutine and that is huge. And we
don't just want to be a goodpodcast. Jay Akunzo is a great professional
speaker coach. He does a wholebunch of stuff. He's a content creator.
He says you want to besomeone's favorite. And when you
are someone's favorite, towhere they're like, ooh, I listen
to this show when I mow thelawn, or whatever it is. So the other

(23:29):
thing, when you're consistentin schedule, you're seen as reliable.
So if you're podcasting foryour business, this is part of your
brand, you are seen asreliable. But keep in mind, as it
is important to be consistentin your schedule, I feel that it's
more important to beconsistent in delivering value. I'd

(23:52):
rather have a late show thatwas remarkable than an on time show
that was meh. Number nine,Come up with a brand and keep consistent.
I'm reading the book rightnow. The Visual Marketer, the Marketer's
crash course for CreatingMemorable and Effective Visuals.

(24:12):
I'm actually interviewing theauthor for the Podpage Monthly meetup.
I'll put a link to that that'sopen to the public. But it's all
about branding. And when yourbrand is a trusted resource, people
are drawn to it. So alreadysaid you can be a trusted resource
because you're consistent. Andnow when you see that logo, people

(24:35):
are like, oh, I know that. Andso let me give you an example. I
love Mountain Dew. Actually, Ilove Mountain Dew a little too much,
but I kind of get worriedbecause right now, Pepsi, they could
come out with a flavor of likenew orange pineapple, you know, whatever.

(24:55):
Mountain Dew. And I'm like,no, no, because I'm, I am an OG when
it comes to Mountain Dew. It'sthe green stuff in a can. Don't give
me that weird plastic tastingstuff. It's gotta be in a can. But
rather than spend the money oncoming out with new Sparky Pineapple,
I don't know what's up withPineapple. Today's new Sparky Pineapple

(25:15):
drink from Pepsi. They're justlike, well, it's easier if we just
put the word Mountain Dew onit, and then maybe people will at
least try it. And we'll talkabout that a little later. We have
something coming up aboutcelebrities, and when you put Mountain
Dew on it, there are peoplelike, oh, I love Mountain Dew, even
though, you know, the newpineapple, whatever, Prune Mountain

(25:39):
Dew is not gonna work. So. Andthen a logo comes in handy when you
want to sell things like swag,you know, T shirts and coasters and
all that stuff. But whenpeople see that logo, they go, oh,
like, for me, if you look atsome famous rock bands like Kiss,

(25:59):
the Rolling Stones, Van Halen,they all had logos. And when you
saw that logo, you got alittle jazz. So it's a best practice.
Now, is this something youneed to do? In fact, all of these
are like, oh, you don't needto. It's your show again. But the
more I study branding, themore I'm like, yeah, this is important.

(26:20):
And I also know, look, I'm thehead of podcasting over at PodPage,
and there are people that takethis brilliant tool and make websites
that burn my corneas. And I'mlike, how does that even tie in to
your artwork? I do a segmentfor PodPage called the website of
the Week, and one of thethings I'm looking for is, hey, do

(26:41):
you have a consistent brand?Does the color in the artwork match
the color on the website? It'sjust. It's less shocking, it's less
startling, you know, have aconsistent brand. And people go,
oh, yeah, that's Dave. It'sthat weird kind of bluish greenish
thing in the yellow andoccasionally gray. So keep that in
mind. Have a consistent brand.It's a best practice number 10. I

(27:05):
am in the process of. I have.The school of podcasting has been
on WordPress for, like, youknow, whatever, 20 years, and I'm
right now going to be pointingpeople to PodPage, where I have the
school of Podcasting episodes,because, A, they look a whole lot
better, and B, I can. And Icould probably do this on WordPress,

(27:28):
but I'm just not a fan anymoreof WordPress. But the best practice
is put your best episodes outfront and you go, what do you mean,
my best episodes? Well, thisis easy. Go into whoever your media
host Is and go into your statsand sort by the number of downloads.
And the one with the mostdownloads, more than likely is the

(27:51):
one that resonated the most.That's why it has the most downloads.
Now, in some cases, like myshow from 2005, your podcast, your
first podcast usually stinks.That's the name of my first episode.
May have more downloadsbecause it's been around for 20 years.
So, you know, use your owndiscretion. But I think on your website,

(28:11):
you should put your bestepisodes first. The ones that your
target audience. Rememberthose people that you met at the
dinner party and you gave themall the food that they really liked?
Put those first. Why? Becausethey might tell their friends. And
when their friends come toyour website, they're like, ooh,
look at that. That's exactlywhat I'm looking for. They click
on it, they hear it, it's yourbest episode, it resonates, and then

(28:34):
they follow the show, and nowwe're off to the races. So that is
something I am doing becauseit's just so easy to do on PodPage
to make featured episodes andfeature them on your front page.
I think that is a podcastingbest practice. This way, instead
of hearing that episode thatyou just put out and you kind of

(28:56):
had to hurry about it becausethere was that wedding you had to
get to. And it's like, it'snot bad, but it's not like, yeah,
why make that your firstimpression? Purposely put out the
best stuff for those newpeople coming to your website. Number
11. Have a website. And bythat I don't mean Linktree. Linktree

(29:17):
has zero. And by that I meannone, zip, nada. Huh. And if you
want to use PodPage, great. Idon't want to make this a giant PodPage
commercial. WordPress,whatever. The thing about WordPress
and Wix and Squarespace, thoseall. None of them typically, let's
go with wix and Squarespace.Have an actual podcast theme. And

(29:39):
so you end up trying tosqueeze your podcast into, like,
a yoga studio theme, but havea website. Why, Dave? Why do I need
a website? Well, let's go withthe whole video thing. People are
like, oh, you need to be onYouTube. We'll be talking about that
in a bit. Because, you know,it's YouTube. It's the number two
search engine. Okay, great.What's the number one search engine?

(30:01):
Google. At least for now.Great. What is it? Searching a website,
and I'm not getting anytraffic to my podcast. Oh, do you
have a website? No. I wonderwhy you're not getting any traffic.
So it's a best practice tohave a website and you don't have
to be a giant nerd anymore.There are many tools that make this

(30:21):
super easy and it will helpyou get found. So have a website
for Your podcast number 12.Why does having keywords in your
podcast in the show title, whyis that a best practice? Well, your
audience needs to find youbefore they consume your content

(30:41):
and I've seen this happen.There was someone that did a show
about baseball. I believe, ifI remember, the show was called the
Dugout and when you typed inbaseball, it didn't show up. Why?
Because the name of the showwas the Dugout and you know that.
I know that the baseballplayers sit in a dugout when they

(31:03):
play the game, but nobody wassearching for the dugout. So this
is where either a put the wordbaseball in your title or add a tag.
So it could be the dugout tag.You know, a fan based baseball, MLB
baseball show for such andsuch. Right. And when you're like,

(31:25):
where do I get keywords? Thereare tons of these. Whether it's ManGools,
Ubersuggest, KeywordsEverywhere is another product ser
ranking. You can go into theGoogle search tool and maybe that's
another episode. We'll do awhole thing on the Google search
console. But there are easyways to do that. Or just use the

(31:48):
go in and look at your reviewsmaybe and see what people are calling
your show or what's in yourcommunity. But you want to have those
words that are common in yourcommunity and just reverse engineer,
what are people typing in tofind my show? And then make sure
those words are in the titleof your show and when possible in

(32:12):
the title of the episode. Icould go on with a ton of these,
but when we come back, I'mgoing to talk about some things that
seem like best practices, butit may be the case that they've just
been repeated so much thatit's actually a myth that we've all
bought into. Yeah, yeah, yeah,the school of podcasting. Alright,

(32:36):
so now let's talk about somethings that I kind of contest and
I'll explain why the first oneis you need to launch with three
episodes. To which I go, well,if you only launched with one, if
it was really good, would Inot then follow the show so that
when that second one comesout. Now I get it. The idea is that

(33:00):
if you launch with threeepisodes and the first one's good,
they can listen to the secondone and the third one and that's
Going to show more consumptionand it might help you get up the
podcast charts in Apple. And Iget that. That's all true. By the
way, that we'll talk aboutthis in a second. What I haven't

(33:24):
proven yet though is doesbeing on the Apple charts actually
grow your show? Because Idon't know anybody. When I go, how
do you discover podcasts thatthey go, oh, I go right to the charts.
They might go in there andsearch hence keywords. But I don't
know anybody go, oh, everyMonday I go to the charts and see

(33:45):
what's hot. No. Now that'sgreat. By the way, I'm not poo pooing
being on the charts. At onepoint I was a top 20 podcast, so
I could put that out there.Now it's not for this show. I think
this show was in the top 50 atone point. But you know, it's, it's
that whole marketing thing.But this is, we'll just roll this

(34:07):
into this one which is pleaserate and review me. It helps me get
found. And I will quote fromApple themselves. Okay, this is it.
So this is what the chartsmeasure. This is again I'm gonna
state it's from Apple. This isnot my opinion what the charts measure.
Apple podcast charts reflectthe most popular shows and episodes

(34:30):
available in a given market,meaning the country and are designed
to help people discover whatto listen to to next. They do not
reflect all time listeningrecords and are not a measure of
the largest podcast bylistenership. So when you're on the
top of the charts, you are thetop for today during this period

(34:53):
in this country. So while theexact algorithm cannot be shared
because marketers ruineverything and they would just hack
it to protect their integrity,the charts measure a mix of the following
listening. So when listenersare engaging with the episode, it's
an indicator of the contentpopularity. So this is where when

(35:16):
you get three clicks to listento that, it's more than one totally
get that follows. Whilelisteners follow a show to receive
a new episode, it's anindicator of their intent to listen.
So it's kind of like afriendship ring. It's like not only
do I like your show, I'mfollowing it. And thank you to the

(35:37):
I believe the last time Ichecked, 92% of you are following
the show. And if you're not,what's your problem? Schoolofpodcasting.com
follow and then this is thebig one, the completion rate. So
this is when people go, Idon't know what my. Why my show isn't
growing. The first thing I'mgoing to ask is, let's go look at
your completion rates. Andwhen it's like 22%, they go, is that

(36:00):
good? And I go, I'm an oldteacher. I go by the 60 is a D, 70
is a C, 80 is a B, 90 is an A,22 is a not good. So that's what
gets you up the charts. Andthen they say, although ratings and
reviews and shares also helpto indicate a podcast's newness,

(36:21):
popularity, and quality, theyare not factored into the algorithm
that determines the rankingsfor top shows and top episodes. So
to this I say they are socialproof. They're absolutely 100% social
proof. And so maybe ifsomebody types in Waffle podcast

(36:41):
because they're hungry andit's breakfast time and they see
that this waffle podcast onthe left has 16 reviews and. And
this waffle podcast on theright has 120, they might be more
likely to listen to the onewith more reviews. But in terms of
helping you get found, notsure. And if you're like me, I subscribe

(37:03):
to both waffle podcasts andthen vote with my ears. But that's
a survey of one. But just soyou know, the whole help you get
found, nothing to do with thealgorithms. So keep that in mind.
Another one is Audiograms.Now, here's the thing. We're gonna
get into these, and there'snothing against, like, Headliner

(37:25):
is a great company. And whenAudiograms first came out, we're
all like, oh, lookie, onsocial. Did you say the thing with
the little. The littlesquiggly thing bumps up and down.
Oh, gosh. Ooh. Yeah. And thatworked when they were new and people
would stop and they wouldclick. Now the question was, did

(37:45):
they then go to your show andfollow it and listen to the whole
episode? And now that it'sbeen years later, I've heard no less
than 4 kind of SEO, not SEO.Social media gurus say, yeah, those
don't really work now.They're. They're marketing. It's
keeping your brand in front ofpeople. But if the goal is to grow

(38:08):
your show, it's a trickle. Ifanything, audiograms are okay. In
fact, there's a study thatcame out that they're finding now
that when you cut out a whole,let's say, a question out of an interview,
that there are times thatpeople will just listen to the shorts

(38:28):
because you've kind of said,hey, here's one of the best parts
of the show. And then, ohlook, there's another one and another
one. So I just listened to 12minutes of, of a 45 minute show.
Maybe I don't need to listento the whole thing because you gave
me the best parts. Yeah, thatthere's. I'll have to find that study.

(38:50):
I heard it from James Kridlinover at POD News and I haven't read
it, but I was like, that's aninteresting twist. Now another. So
I would say audiograms at thispoint, years later, we all kind of
go, yeah, not really the coolthing we thought it was going to
be. And the other thing thatwe're going through right now, and

(39:10):
I'll try to keep this brief,everybody knows they're going, oh
no, he's going to talk aboutYouTube. Yeah, YouTube. This is being
tested right now. Now thereare people, mainly YouTube, saying,
hey, you need to be onYouTube. And of course they are,
and of course they should. Butthere's a. I've got a link in the
show notes to an articlecalled the Truth about video podcast

(39:34):
on YouTube by my buddy ColinGray. And it's, it's really good
because some people, yeah, youknow, they like this is working out
other. But there are a lot ofpeople that are like, not so much.
In fact, there is a study thathe did and when I looked at the graph,
only as we all think, right,you're probably thinking, but everybody

(39:56):
else is doing video and I'mnot. Guess what? 28% of people are
actually doing full on videopodcasts on YouTube. And if you're
doing the static image onYouTube that is very much like an
audiogram, you're not going toget much traction on that. But I
would just. Here's my littleBill Maher story. If you're a regular

(40:20):
listener, you've heard this.But to make a long story short, Bill
launched Club Random. I wasworking at Libsyn when he did this,
and Bill didn't want to doaudio, he just wanted to do video.
We talked him into audio. Hethen hired a PR firm to only promote
the video, not the audio. Andwhen the stats came in, the audio
outperformed the video 15 to1. So this is why I'm saying this

(40:44):
is not a tested best practice.It is being practiced now. And we
will find out maybe in a yearor two if this is really working
to grow your podcast now it'sgrowing your brand. If you think
about these big outdoorconcerts, Lollapalooza and all these
other ones, it's like goingfrom the big Stage to another stage

(41:09):
and you can pick which one'sthe big one and the small one. But
you are starting in front of abrand new audience. You're not probably.
There's a def. Diff.Definitive. I cannot. What's the
word for that? Definitive.Defin. It's not a definite answer,
but you will probably growyour, your reach by doing video.

(41:30):
But I don't think you're goingto get many people who love video
to go watch your audio. Sokeep that in mind. When I did the
math on this, this is back inMarch of this year, there were 6.65.3
million creators on YouTubemaking content for 2.49 trillion
with a T viewers. So there's ahuge, huge audience over there and

(41:53):
there were 358,000 audiocreators making content for 202 million
listeners. So definitelysmaller numbers. But when you do
the math. Yeah. What does thatboil down to? Yeah, 15 to 1. There
are, there's more audiolisteners than there are video people.
So keep that in mind. Now weneed to talk about chit chat and

(42:17):
we need to talk aboutcelebrities School of podcasting.
We look to celebrities becausethat's often who. That's why I love
celebrities. They bring in newpeople into the podcasting space
and they're like, oh, look atConan, look at Mel Robbins. Look
at the. Of course we have tomention Joe Rogan and all these people,

(42:38):
they start their show and thenthey go into about two minutes of
ads. I just listened to thebeginning of Conan o'. Brien. He
did a minute and a half ofads. And so it was three, three 30
second ads. And so you'relike, oh, so I can start with three
30 second ads. Except I don'tknow, you, you haven't been on TV

(43:01):
for 20 years. You, you know,you haven't written best selling
books. You haven't been on theBig Bang Theory. What's her name?
Mayim Blalik Bilik. Whatever.Great show prep today, Dave. But
like her show was beyondannoying because she would be having
this great conversation andhave to stop for a meundies ad. And

(43:24):
I'm like, didn't you get paidlike 25 million an episode to do
the Big Bang Theory? I'm like,look, okay, and same thing. Conan
o' Brien needs a friend. Conano' Brien needs some cash. Apparently
Conan will do a short, a sevenminute short on YouTube and a minute
and a half of it is an ad.Drives me crazy. But here's the thing.

(43:45):
What gives you the right to doads at the beginning of your show.
And the answer is, you'vealready built a relationship with
your audience. They alreadyknow who you are. You already have
that connection. So they willtolerate a minute and a half of ads

(44:06):
because they love you so much.That makes sense. I hate it, but
it makes sense. And so whenyou start and you are nobody and
I am nobody, and I start offwith two minutes of ads or I do five
breaks. This is not made upfive breaks in the middle. So there's

(44:30):
five divided by five is twoand a half minutes. Ads in the middle.
For me, it's not the time.It's not the two and a half minutes.
But when I hear a break andthen another break and you're like,
okay, surely they're comingback after. Nope, they're back again.
Here's another. Well, surely.I mean, this is three. Are they gonna.
Oh, there's another one. Holycow, are they ever coming back. And

(44:53):
then a fifth one, and then bythe time they come back, you're kind
of mad. At least I am. That'sa survey of one. But keep in mind,
basing your show on how acelebrity does it when you're not
a celebrity, in my opinion.Not a best practice. It's an opinion
is not the way to go. Buildyour audience first, then bring in

(45:16):
the ads. Or at least if youbring in the ads, I would not start
them at the beginning. Thisagain, not a best practice. It's
Dave's opinion. I want thefirst thing you hear to be my voice.
And I don't want to sell youanything. Now, I do mine very close
like I do mine in the intro,but they're very short. But if you

(45:36):
think about it, and the onlyreason. If you've ever wondered if
I was coaching me, I wouldsay, hey, that whole thing you do
with the coupon code, like,you haven't even given any information
yet. And I always keep thosesuper short. I do them at the beginning
in the event you go, wait,what was that coupon thing? I don't
see it anywhere. What was thecoupon? It's right there at the beginning
of the show. So I can alsojust put it in the show notes, which

(45:58):
I do. But keep that in mindwhen it comes to celebrities. Now,
the other thing is chit chat.And I think my favorite example of
this is James Credlin and SamSethi do the weekly pod news wrap
up something show. It'sbasically pod news. It's like pod

(46:19):
news. What's wrong with mymouth today? It's like, pod. I'm
just leaving these in Pod Newsgreatest hits for the week. And then
Sam and James talk about it.And so they go through. They have
a very. Here's the topstories. They usually have an interview.
They use chapters, which isgreat, by the way. Let's take a tangent,
shall we, to. For crying outloud. Here comes another 10 second

(46:40):
tangent. 10 seconds indeed.Such absolute rubbish. We talked
about brands. Daniel J. Lewisis a brand and he launched Pod Chapters
this week. If your media hostdoesn't do chapters and you want
them, you can go over and makethem with podchapters.com I was lucky

(47:01):
enough because Daniel's a goodfriend of mine to be in his beta
group. And I got to tell you,I do ask the podcast coach and that
is a very hard show because weare taking questions from the audience.
So we are all over the place.And most AI tools fail miserably
at this. And Daniel by far hasdone the best job of picking up all

(47:22):
the different topics that wedo. It's [e-mail] but
speaking of chapters, we'regoing to go back to James and Sam
because they use chapters inthe Pod News Weekly review. Ugh.
Finally back to the show. Andso they have all these topics that
they use chapters on and thelast thing that they say is, is,

(47:45):
Sam, what have you been up to?Oh, I've been doing this and my daughter
and I was riding through thecountryside and drinking wine. James,
what were you doing? Well, Iflew all over the world and now I'm
sick and I've got animals thatare trying to kill me in my backyard
because I live in Australia,et cetera, et cetera. And then they
do their last calls to actionand they're out. And I listen to

(48:07):
those. Why? Because I lovethat show. I'm a fan of that show.
It's a great way to catch upwith all the news. And in one episode
I actually support them withmoney. But for me, the best place
for the chit chat is at theend, where your super fans are. Now,
if you're gonna do chit chatat the beginning in that report,

(48:28):
I mentioned earlier thepodcast study, 33% of people do not
want any chit chat. 42% said,but you gotta keep it short. And
so for me, I think short chitchat is tolerable if it's relevant
to the title that you areusing for the episode. So if the

(48:48):
title of the episode isPodcasting Best practices, but the
opening chit chat is aboutyour cat chewing up the couch and
the kid just pooped in theswimming pool. While those are entertaining,
we tuned in for whatever is inthe title of the episode. And so
that's where I say, put thechit chat and look back and listen

(49:12):
and go, is it really. Is it afunny story or is it just you ranting
about your husband or yourwife or whatever? Because I'm here
to tell you that's not goingto go over well when they hear it.
So keep that in mind. That'smy suggestion. Again, that's not
a best practice. Well, it kindof is a best practice because that
report says, Look, 70% ofpeople are not a fan of the chit

(49:35):
chat. And the problem with theway they worded that is they did
not define what is short. Isthat 10 seconds? Is it 30 seconds?
Is it two minutes? Kind ofscary, but that's where I would put
the chitchat. Yeah, yeah,yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, again,
I totally agree with youshould be yourself. I'm being myself

(49:58):
today. I'm also operatingwithout bullet points. That's the
problem. What's going on?That's why my brain and my mouth
aren't working. I have a blogpost I wrote about this, but I don't
use my. I don't have my yellowsticky note on the monitor with my
bullet points. So bestpractices are things that have been
practiced and found to workbest. And I want you to be yourself.

(50:20):
Your podcast, it's a recipe,it's not a statue. And you can do
whatever you want. And keep inmind that even with these best practices,
my audience is not youraudience. It may be completely different.
So feel free to test andreport back to me. Hey, Dave, I tried
this and it's goinggangbusters. I am always open to

(50:43):
new input with the data of,hey, here's what happened and here's
how it worked. So keep that inmind. My goal is to just answer the
question, hey, are those bestpractices that we've been following
forever still, you know,viable? And if you are testing things
like YouTube, I would love tohear your input. That might be something.

(51:07):
I might just take the pageright out of Collins book there.
He did a great one where heinterviewed a bunch of people. Maybe
that's the question of themonth. I think we did that one already,
but that's one that's beingtested and that's one I wanted to
look into. And when I lookedat his data and I was like, wait,
that's only 28% of everybodythat's actually doing video. So I'M
always open to suggestions. Ithank you so much for giving me your

(51:31):
time. I hope you got somevalue out of it. If you did, could
you do me a favor and go toyour phone and do you know another
podcaster or somebody that'smaybe complaining about why their
podcast isn't growing? Youmight want to share this with them
and go, hey, are you doingthese things? I hear these are the
podcasting best practices.It's from this guy named Dave Jackson.

(51:55):
He helps podcasters. It's kindof what he does. He's been doing
it for 20 years. I woulddeeply appreciate that. And until
next week, take care. Godbless. Class is dismissed. When I

(52:23):
wrote my book podcasting, whatthe heck is the name of my book?
That's hilarious? I don't knowwhat it's called. All right, here
we go. I'm still almostlaughing. Okay, again, there was
this great study called thePodcast Report. Or no, the Podcast

(52:47):
Again. Great, great, great.Hold on. We're cutting this one out.
What is the name of thatsurvey? Ah, yes, the Podcast study.
Hey, this is Doug from King'sX, and if you like what you hear,
go tell someone.