Raising a Glass to Todd Cochran: Podcasting Pioneer

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey there, podcaster or future podcaster?
I have some bad news.
Yesterday I learned that myfriend of 21 years, Todd Cochran,
died suddenly.
This is the man who wrote thevery first book on podcasting.

(00:21):
And what's interesting is Iwent looking for a picture of Todd
and I, and there isn't one.
Why now there's a picture ofus in a group?
Because you always think thatperson is there and I'll see Todd
at the next event and youknow, I'll do it then.
But 21 years, I never took apicture with a guy.
You see Todd.

(00:43):
Todd was a character, like,straight up, like, character.
So unique.
And there will never beanother Todd Cochrane.
And at every event I went to,I would end up at a table with Todd
and the Robs.
By that I mean Rob Greenleeand Rob Walch and other OGs, as they

(01:05):
say.
And it was always great tocatch up with Todd and we would all
share our insights with thegoal of making sure the podcast space
not our own companies.
But is podcasting going to be okay?
And I will remember Todd as asuper courageous advocate for the

(01:25):
independent podcaster.
At one point, he would getdeals like actual sponsors by grouping
a bunch of shows together.
So he'd get a bunch of golfingshows together or a bunch of women's
shows together because hewanted to see the indies, as he called
them, make some money.
And I was one of those indies.

(01:46):
And it was one of the firsttimes I ever made money with a podcast.
But the thing that most peopledon't realize, that was a huge nightmare
of paperwork, and thatwouldn't have happened without Todd.
In fact, on a recent show, hetalked about how he wouldn't do a
deal where podcasters madeless than 70% of the revenue, where

(02:10):
other companies are takingdeals of 50% or less.
And not Todd the podcastermust be paid.
I love the fact that he had awider view of the podcast space as
the CEO of BluBrry, and he wasalways willing to share what he saw.

(02:31):
My favorite phrase to hearfrom Todd.
Was, well, I probablyshouldn't say this.
But because you knew whateverwas coming was going to be a doozy.
He was great.
He was kind of horrible atkeeping secrets in a way.
But when you hear that stat,most podcasters don't make it past
episode seven.

(02:52):
That was first delivered atsome sort of Ohio meetup thing.
And that was Todd Cochran thatshared that.
And he would go back and checkevery now and then, but he was always
willing to share.
He was always open to share.
If there was a problem so thatwe could all solve it together.

(03:15):
Todd was the man behind thepodcast Awards.
Now the full name of that isthe People's Choice Podcast Awards.
And when some shows didn'twin, and I'm not making this up about
a podcast award, he receiveddeath threats.
Yeah.
Did it stop him from holdingthe awards next year?
No.

(03:35):
And Todd earned next tonothing for doing those awards.
But he did it again.
Noticing a pattern yet he didit for the indies.
Lots of work again for next tono pay, as long as the indie podcaster
would benefit.
One of my favorite memories ofTodd was way back at the New Media

(03:59):
Expo.
So this is, I don't know, 10years ago.
I was the head of that, thepodcast track back then and there
was an off site party at a bar.
Well, I was running the track,so I was running around like a chicken
with my head cut off.
I got there late and the waythis bar was, it was kind of almost

(04:21):
on a hill.
And so you walked up thishill, that was the parking lot, and
then there were like two orthree cement steps and then there
was a door.
And so as I walked up, Toddcame barreling out of the bar.
And I believe the old sailorhad had a spirit or two.

(04:41):
And he was standing on those steps.
I'm standing down in theparking lot.
So Todd looks like he's 10ft tall.
And they had been talkingabout bigger companies getting into
podcasting.
And before I could even sayhello, Todd raised his fist in the
air and shouted, there's a foxin the henhouse, boys.

(05:03):
Viva la levolution.
So there was Todd, larger thanlife, fist in the air, up against
the dark Vegas sky, fightingfor the indies.
There will never be anotherTodd Cochran.
So rest in peace, my friend.

(05:24):
And what I found because I wasthe head of podcasting at the New
Media Expo is Todd did a talkabout his then 10 years in the podcasting
space.
And in honor of Todd, I'mgoing to play this unedited.
Good morning everyone.
And I've got a little bit of ahorse throat.

(05:46):
Partied a little too hard lastnight, but we'll get through.
I wanted to take you guystoday on a journey.
10 years, 1,000 episodes, andreally kind of everything in between.
I'm going to be sharing withyou today a couple things that I
have never in 10 years ofpodcasting revealed, so you get a

(06:06):
treat.
I do ask when we get to thefinancial slides that you don't take
a picture of them.
And there's to be some stuffup there that you'll understand why
when we get there.
Other than that, I'm sureprobably these slides are going to
become available at some point.
But if you want these slides,you can email me as well.

(06:27):
Those of you don't know me,again, my name is Todd Cochran.
EekNews is my Twitter account.
CEOAWO.com is the emailaddress that you can email me at.
Do a couple showsgeeknewcentral.com is the flagship
show I started in October2004, and newmediashow.com is the

(06:48):
show I do with my co host Rob Greenlee.
We do that every week when I'mhome in Hawaii.
And of course I'm the guybehind raw voice and blueberry.com
and of course with my team as well.
So currently where the statssit, I'm at 1024 episodes, 82 new
media show interviews, 640video interviews.

(07:11):
And I've been at this 10years, 6 months and 19 days.
So I think I am the oldestpodcaster at New Media show.
So I don't know if anyone else is.
There's only a few left in thespace that started when I did.
So what does that all equal to?
That equals to a lot of work,7,291 hours in my studio, which equals

(07:37):
to 303 days of my lifecreating content.
Do you think so if you thinkabout that over 10 years and you
think about your wives or yourspouses or your significant others,
that's a lot of time to be inthe studio.
I do this Monday, Thursday,Saturday at 6:00am Hawaiian Standard
Time.
But the thing I want to pointout here is as you're going to be

(08:00):
doing your shows, you got toget cooperation of your spouses or
significant others.
We do not put anything on thecalendar for Monday and Thursday
night.
We have not done put anythingon the calendar for 10 years for
Monday and Thursday night.
Now I had a graduation I hadto go to exception, death in a family

(08:22):
exception.
But other than that, very few others.
So I just want to give yousome perspective.
Over 10 years I've had over28,000 listener comments, plus 800
audio comments.
This is going to lead into thestuff I'm going to talk about here
in a few minutes aboutengagement and my family.
And we'll talk about that in detail.

(08:43):
That's the number one of thenumbers that I haven't publicly talked
about too much.
That's how many downloads mycreative shows have received over
10 years.
So I started with zero, justlike everyone else.
And over Time built that up.

(09:03):
And I'm going to share todaysome strategies with you to build
that kind of a number over 10 years.
And it is possible.
And I'm going to say this acouple times today.
I walk the walk and I talk the talk.
Most people don't know this,but I do not take a salary from Raw
Voice.
I live in Hawaii on mymilitary retirement and my podcast.

(09:27):
And I do that for one reason only.
If I'm going to be in thisspace helping podcasters succeed
in this space, if I can't doit, nobody can with the resources
I have available.
So today I'm going to talkabout that journey, talk about the
relationships I've had, talkabout the engagement, going to talk

(09:47):
about the mistakes, becausethere's been some of those.
I'm going to talk about the money.
I think that's important.
And a lot of people talk aboutmoney and talk about money over the
years, but they say, oh, Imade this much money, but I put some
sheet on a website and saythat their financial advisor has
signed it off.

(10:08):
But very few people haveactually shown you a check.
So today I'm going to show youa couple of checks.
And I'm not doing this to brag.
I want to do this specificallyfor you guys to understand what is
possible.
I've never done this before.
I've actually consoled with mymom on this.
I said, should I talk aboutthe money?

(10:28):
She said, don't talk about the money.
She said, it'll come across arrogant.
But I think it's important atthis stage in the podcasting sphere
for those of you that aredoing this, to understand what is
potential.
So we'll get into that in alittle bit.
I want to talk about thepresentation and the future, so the
history.
In 2004, I got hurt pretty badin Bahrain.

(10:51):
I'm prior military.
I spent 24 years in the USNavy, and I sustained an injury in
Bahrain that was of my owndoing, not because of a military
action.
Spent 13 days in the hospital,could no longer fly an airplane or
in an airplane and was grounded.
And I was sent to Waco, Texasto babysit some airplanes.

(11:13):
I was the contract liaisonthat was there to protect your taxpayer
dollars from being spentunwisely, which often happens.
And I was stuck in a hotelroom because I was wearing a clamshell.
And if you've ever seensomebody wearing one of Those, when
it's 105 degrees, it's notcool, it's hot.
And so I had nothing better todo but sit in my hotel room and surf

(11:36):
the net.
I was a blogger, not a great blogger.
And I heard Dave Winder andAdam Curry on their podcast talking
about this thing called podcasting.
Three days later, I was apodcaster again in that hotel room.
Recorded my first few episodesthere using a lab tech headset.

(11:59):
Really not knowing what to do.
Made a bunch of mistakes byplaying some.
All right, I used AC DC in my intro.
Had a great time.
Those episodes have been since edited.
But what happened was incredible.
I had essentially, again,being a bad blogger, maybe 300 people

(12:23):
come to my website a day.
Really, within about 60 days,we went from zero to 45,000 listeners.
And at the time, there was noBlueberry podcast hosting.
There was no Libsyn.
We had to find bandwidth.
And what we did was we slappedour credit card down and bought multiple

(12:45):
economy hosting plans.
And every show, I wouldpublish the media on one, burn the
bandwidth, move the media fileto another one, and do that consecutively
for 30 days.
I think at one time I had like50, 15 shared hosting accounts just
to deliver the bandwidth.
That continued to grow.

(13:05):
And In December of 2014, 2004,I got this email from this group
called Wiley Publishingasking, hey, we want you to write
a book on podcasting.
And I said, well, my replywas, granted, I'm not a good blogger.
You've got to be beeping me.
They replied back, no, we'renot beeping you.
We want you to write a book.

(13:27):
And that really kind of setthe stage for the book I wrote on
podcasting, which is nowreally long in a tooth.
But I announced that book onshow 69.
And I want to talk about thedynamics of podcasting.
At that time, there was theanti money crowd.
If you took money, if you didanything for this, you were evil.

(13:50):
It was this pure.
This is supposed to be thispure content.
You weren't supposed to makemoney off this.
And I got paid by Wiley to dothis book.
Show 69, announced it to my audience.
And because I had a lot ofpodcasters following me, my audience
at the time was probably closeto 75 or 80,000.

(14:10):
And those people are so pissedoff that I lost 50% of my audience
on show 69.
That was a turning point forme because I got to thinking a little
bit about the audience.
Well, you don't talk aboutthat publicly on the show.
You just kind of figure that out.
There was no one to consultwith, so I consulted with myself
and said, fine, I can do itwithout him.

(14:32):
Let's go.
In Hawaii, we have this wordcalled, ohana, And I'm going to talk
about this word a lot becauseI need you guys to really think about
your audience.
Ohana is family.
And when I'm talking to myaudience and sharing with them the

(14:54):
topics that I do, I in my minduse the analogy that they are sitting
right across from me in atable and we're having a one on one
conversation.
Well, obviously it's not, it'sme talking to them, but the ohana
factor, the family factor, hasplayed a big part in my show's growth.
I treat and respect myaudience as if they were very close

(15:17):
family members.
Sister, a brother, a mother, grandfather.
That's the way I think aboutmy audience.
At the same time, at a certainpoint, I even love my audience.
I still do.
I shouldn't say at some point,I do love my audience.
And that has helped throughthe rough times when you're, you
know, you haven't had enoughsleep, you do the show when you've

(15:37):
had a propensity to destroythe English language.
The ohana loves you, theylaugh with you, they move on, and
just like good friends do,they laugh with you and they bust
you on email.
So that was part of thatengagement factor.
But something big happened inJuly of 2005.

(16:01):
My wife had given me a twoyear old, a two year timeline.
I had done a couple ofbusinesses before the podcasting
thing.
Any of you ever owned a boat?
Okay, you put a lot of moneyin a boat, right?
It's a money pit, right?
Well, I had some money pit hobbies.

(16:23):
And when I told my wife afterI came back from Texas that time,
hey, honey, I got a new thinggoing to do this podcasting thing
and she does this.
You got two years for what?
To make this work and make money.
Because I asked her for Mondayand Thursday every single week.

(16:43):
So what does a good husband do?
Yes, dear, two years.
So I was saved.
In July 2005, GoDaddy calledme and said, we want to sponsor your
show.
And from that, this company,without this company, I firmly believe,
and without Adam Curry andDave Weiner, without that those three

(17:03):
elements, this podcastingspace today would not be what it
is today.
GoDaddy is still my sponsor.
But what really set things inmotion, and I'm not going to spend
a lot of time on my business.
That's not we're here to talkabout, but I want to just talk about
the dynamic of that.
She called me a month into the campaign.

(17:24):
She says, todd, do you knowanyone else will do advertising with
us?
I was an electronicstechnician I wasn't a business guy
and I said, hmm, yeah, I do.
Business was born.
So on my show, into my ohana,I said, I need a lawyer, I need a

(17:45):
graphics guy, I need a programmer.
And what else?
Dev.
From that call, nine peoplegot on a phone call.
Four people dropped off after.
Five people dropped off thatcall after asked for money because
I wanted people to commit cash.
And then Raw Voice was bornfrom a question that was asked.
So my point here to you inthis particular slide, do not ever

(18:10):
allow an opportunity to passin which could further enhance your
bottom line or affect your show.
Be listening for those signalsbecause they will come and they'll
come at the most crazy time inyour life.
You have to listen for themand if you do, it could change the
outcome of what your show isabout and whether or not you quit

(18:31):
your day job.
So got a sponsor, got to buildan audience.
So I went into audiencebuilding mode.
So I'm doing this podcast ontech and I'm sorry, I think I'm blowing
on this mic.
I said, what can I do to reachmore people in my category?

(18:55):
A good friend, Andy McCaskey,at the time, we'd started a network
called tech podcast together.
13 guys trying to figure outhow to work together.
And he said, tom, let's go tothe Consumer Electronics Show.
Let's go there and talk to thepeople we talk about.
So from that point, I startedgoing to CES and NAB every year,

(19:16):
reaching down deep into mypocket in my credit card when I didn't
necessarily have the budget todo it to go to where the people I
talk about were.
And over 10 years, I havedeveloped a relationship with almost
every top secret level name inthe space.
And I have a reputation forgiving them fair coverage, honest

(19:38):
feedback.
If I see something I don'tlike, I tell them.
And over that time, because Ihave these relationships with these
folks that are at theseevents, doors open up.
So whatever your topic of yourcontent may be, takeaway here is
that you need to find a way tobuild your audience.

(19:59):
And the way I was building myaudience was bringing, whoa, way
cool stuff to them that theycouldn't go otherwise.
So if you're doing basketweaving, your audience can't go to
the Basking Basket Weavingtrade show, but you are the basket
weaving expert.
So you go to the basketweaving trade show and you talk to

(20:21):
all these vendors and you makerelationships and you bring that
content back to your audiencebecause they couldn't be there for
you or they couldn't be there themselves.
And you're going to build audience.
And this is what I use as oneof my primary building audience tools
is I go to get content and Igo, I don't make them come to me,
I go get it and I make relationships.

(20:45):
So this building is going on.
On the anniversary of my 200show, I'm sitting at work.
I was still active duty Navyat the time, and the phone rang.
Now that evening I'm supposedto be recording episode 200 phone
rang and I picked it up.
It was my mom.
And she informed me my fatherhad died in an automobile accident.

(21:07):
So kind of ironic.
Show 200 dad dies.
We're not going to do a show,obviously going to get on an airplane
and go home.
But when I went to the house,I told my mom, I told my wife, I
said, I got to tell the ohana.
So I recorded a five minuteshort video explaining what was going

(21:27):
on, told them there would beno show for 10 days and what's up?
Remember, I have arelationship with my audience.
I share my life, I share whatI do.
We have this relationshipright along with the content.
A lot of people don't do that.
I got 2,800 condolence emails.

(21:51):
I didn't read any of themuntil I got back after 10 days, but
I read and responded to everylast one of them.
That was therapy for losing a father.
And having an ohana thatworried about you or enough to send
2,800 emails told me that wewere doing something right in the
relationship we had with the audience.

(22:12):
So I'm just going to tell youguys, this relationship you guys
have with your audience isgoing to be the most important, important
thing you ever do in your podcast.
You know, you have the guest,they're going to come on and talk
to you, but don't forget about them.
You have to always rememberabout, you know, think about your
family again, ohana.

(22:34):
So oftentimes podcasters arespeaking into the mic, but they forget
and maybe all of you don't.
But just remember you areright here, you're right between,
you know, you're plugged into them.
So respect their time and knowthat, you know, you are talking to

(22:58):
them in their head.
I think often as we just talk,and I'm guilty that sometimes I just
talk.
Don't talk, talk to them andremember that you're talking to them.
Some of the best radiobroadcasters in the world, when they're
talking on the radio, youthink they're talking to me.

(23:19):
So try to keep that in there.
Several books out and I'Msorry I don't have any references
for you, but there's somebooks out there from the radio broadcasting
industry that helps youdevelop skills to be able to get
into their head and be intheir head.
Trust Gode was my sponsor, right?
I always told the bad thingsabout GoDaddy.

(23:40):
If GoDaddy did something bad,Bill Parsons shot an elephant, went
on the Internet.
GoDaddy was exploiting womenon their commercials.
GoDaddy was doing some otherthings with some legislation.
I never held back.
I did it in a respectful wayand they understood my opinion.
At the same time, I would getthe VP on the phone, they would be

(24:06):
on my show, we'd talk aboutthe issue and we work through it.
So even though my sponsor wasdoing a couple of things I did not
like, we dealt with that trustissue from a sponsorship standpoint
while at the same time wedealt with other issues.
If there was a product Ididn't like, I told it the way it
was.
I had many, many, many C levelexecutives call me and say, why did

(24:28):
you just tear my product apart?
I said, well it sucks, youknow, and that built trust.
Even with those C levelrelationships I had.
Well, for some crazy reason Idecided to do video too.
And this video thing almostdestroyed me.

(24:49):
I've talked about this two,three years ago.
Have any of you get into oneof my sessions before?
So two or three years ago?
Well, when I started video, Istarted talking to the camera and
talking to the screen.
Started saying, talking about,hey, hey, look at what I'm showing
you guys right now.

(25:09):
I'm showing a website, talkingabout a product, I'm talking to the
screen and like I forgot theywere listening.
70% were listening, 30% were watching.
And all of a sudden, guesswhat I saw?
Tick, tick, tick, tick, tick,tick, down with the numbers.
Because I was no longertalking to them.

(25:30):
I was showing them.
And how could the audioaudience be shown?
They were listening.
So if you do video, don'tforget, for God's sake, don't forget
that the audio audience is listening.
I catch myself even today andit's a fine line you have to play
if you're going to add videoto your show to remember to talk

(25:51):
to the audio listeners.
This goes by I don't have the ball.
That's basically kind of aNavy jargon.
When the guy's coming in tofly into a carrier, he's on approach,
he says, I've got the ball.
That means he's on glide path,he's on glidescope and he's going
to be able to land well, Ilost the ball for a while and it
hurt me.
So this is one of the mistakesI made.

(26:11):
I don't want you guys to make,but video made me a better podcaster.
I've.
I don't edit, start, stop.
I do a little processing, Iencode the mp3, mp4, I'm done.
I don't edit ums, has, who's,has, what's, farts, burps, whatever,
they stay in.

(26:34):
But because I was doing video,it made me prepare more.
So you don't have to put yourvideo online, but turn on your webcam
and record yourself whileyou're doing your audio podcast.
And if you're conscious ofthat, what you're going to find is

(26:54):
in two to three months, you'regoing to be a much, much better podcaster
because you're more consciousof what you're saying because you're
assuming someone's watching you.
I went in full head.
I just went live immediatelyand I just said, okay, let's go.
And I got the comments fromthe audiences that sucked.
That was bad.
What did you do that for?
You know, so it made me abetter podcaster over time, and I

(27:19):
truly believe it was probablywhat allowed me to take my show to
the next level of listenership.
Back up a little bit.
I made a verbal commitment tomy audience that I was quitting my
day job while I was beingforced to retire from the Navy.
So I had no choice.
I had a.
Had a line set out there byUncle Sam and.

(27:40):
But I decided at that point Iwas gonna go full time.
So retire from the Navy, be afull time podcaster.
And I verbally told theaudience, this is what we're gonna
do.
And my wife's like, are you crazy?
You know, she's like, lookingat the checks.
Are you crazy?
We're leaving Hawaii, dude.

(28:01):
We gonna go full time.
I'm like, yes, we are.
And I quit my day job and Imade my goal, but because I verbalized
it.
And this is just a commonthing that all of us can do to improve
ourselves.
But once you make thecommitment to the audience, you just
do not want to be that guy, tosay, well, I have to go get a job,

(28:23):
you know, at least I didn't.
My pride was too big.
All right, let's talk a littlebit about the sponsors hate love
relationship.
They'll make you try to dostuff that you don't want to do.
You have to negotiateeverything that you do with sponsors.

(28:44):
It can be tough at times.
I've had knock em, drag themout fights with advertisers.
When I change media buyers andthey want to change stuff up.
And I've held to my guns onsome, many instances, not all.
Sometimes I've lost.
Lost.
But that sponsor relationshiphas to be healthy, just like any
other family relationship.

(29:04):
And I treat it as such.
So again, I said I talk thetalk and walk the walk.
And then again, the reason whyI've done this is to make you guys
understand that you can do it too.
So this is where we're goingto start talking about money.
And again, I'm just being.
I'm just wanting you guys toknow that I'm trying to show to you

(29:25):
what is possible.
This is not to brag, but thisis to give you an indication of what
can be done over 10 years ofhard work.
But I want to set the story.
GoDaddy became a sponsor inJuly of 2005.
I had additional sponsors likeCitrix, GoToMeeting and just a variety,
maybe 20, 30 differentsponsors over the years.

(29:48):
And GoDaddy was there monthafter month.
Now you think, okay, after 10years, Todd, how is it possible that
you're still getting enoughresults for the advertiser for them
to continue to pay you?
I've gotten a base fromgodaddy from the very beginning.
They pay me a base amount if Idon't deliver them a customer one.

(30:11):
But they know that I'm gonnadeliver customers.
I on average deliver 350 to400 brand new customers to GoDaddy
every month.
Okay.
I told that to the dreamhostguy the other day and he about flipped
out.
So you do that over 10 yearsand there's a relationship that can

(30:31):
become very healthy.
They listen to you when theydo a product rollout.
That's bad.
But there was a thing thatchanged recently.
They weren't giving me renewalcodes, so I couldn't.
The folks that were alreadycustomers of mine, I couldn't give
them renewal codes.
And we're still battling over that.
But here's my lifetime podcast earnings.

(30:51):
Okay, so this is multiple sponsors.
Some years have been higherthan others.
Now, I told you about thatlongevity, right?
That longevity of keeping asponsor after 10 years.
That was what the last sixmonths looked like.

(31:12):
Now, people throw numbers upon the wall all the time.
So I'm going to very quickly.
No pictures on the next twoslides, please.
There's a check, 6150 Podcast Connect.
That's the company I dobusiness under.
There's a second check, 7950for that was for whatever month it
was.

(31:32):
But it was two of thosemonths, of those six.
So that is possible.
Doing this business.
I have never in 10 years evertold anyone how much money I've ever
made on podcasting.
You guys are the first.
But I want you to understandit's possible.
A couple months ago, I told mywife I wanna retire when I'm 60.

(31:57):
And she goes with this.
Podcasting doesn't work out.
You have plan B?
Hmm, no.
So you need to make a plan B.
So I've been over the past 60days looking at making sure that
I can take myself out to retirement.

(32:19):
I'm not telling you, go quityour day job, but I'm going to tell
you that you have thepotential to supplement your income
in such a way, if you continueto do your show, that you can increase
your happiness at retirement.
Time just takes a lot of hard work.
If you have a show that you'vebeen doing for two or three years

(32:40):
and it's not working, it istime to change what you're doing
and try something else in thepodcasting space.
Change, experiment, adjust.
You have to do something.
You got to keep that ball rolling.
Success is never guaranteed,but you guys saw that number earlier.

(33:00):
How much do you think I'vereinvested into my show?
So your reinvestment can be10% of what you bring in a year?
My reinvestment every year isprobably 20 to $40,000.
I reinvest into my show.
Where does that money go?

(33:20):
I take a team of 15 to CES tocover the show.
That's a 20 or $25,000 bill todo that.
I take a studio.
You guys come down theescalators where They've got the
NAB Bookstore right outside ofNorth Hall.
I have that 10 by 30 space.
I have a studio set up there.
I interview all these C level executives.

(33:43):
How did I start off?
I walked with a microphone inthe hall.
Can I have an interview, sir?
That's how I started.
I built over time.
But I invest in my showbecause I know that I have to continue
to bring content to my audience.
How am I doing for time?
12 o'.
Clock.

(34:03):
What time do I have to.
I got.
We can go long.
No one's coming after us.
But I'll.
I'll hurry this up.
Success isn't guaranteed, butyou can really do a lot to make yourself
successful.
And the sustainability is.
Is big.
You have to continue to workhard to build your audience.
I think all of you alreadyknow that as well.
And you have to Stay relevant.

(34:24):
I try to learn everything Ican about the space.
If you get in the rut of justdoing your show and not keeping abreast,
so what's going on, that changes.
You have to embrace everythingthat's new.
Try it, throw it up againstthe wall and see if it works.
And you have to stay motivated.
Sometimes that's jumping jacksbefore a show.
Sometimes that's a Red Bull.

(34:44):
Sometimes that's a couple cupsof coffee.
Whatever it is, when you sitdown in the chair to do that show,
it's time to be on your A game.
And I get crap when I'm not.
The audience says, hey,obviously you didn't get enough sleep,
you know, but it's like afamily member.
We talked about that ohana thing.
Have that relationship, and Iexpect that feedback from them.

(35:06):
And if I don't deliver a goodshow, I apologize.
They'll accept.
A family member will accept an apology.
But you have to have thatrelationship with the ohana or with
your family of listeners to do that.
Now, I'm into experimenting.
Experimenting can be dangerous.
I had a rule that I would notchange anything in my show.
In the format, I don't do onechange every three months.

(35:29):
Well, I'm kind of rolled backin that a little bit.
I'm now experimenting a littlebit more.
I'll do, like, one change fora month, and I'll see if it's caused
an uptick.
So don't be afraid toexperiment a little bit.
I did a segment on mobile devices.
The audience really didn'treact to it that well.
So you have to experiment, trywhatever it takes to make the show

(35:51):
grow.
All right, I want to changehats just a little bit.
If you came to the state ofthe podcasting space yesterday, you
heard, you know, saw somecharts, got a few questions out,
but I'm lucky I got this100,000 votes view of the space.
And I'm often privy to thingsthat never make the news stuff that

(36:13):
the providers have to deal with.
And right now, I think we'relooking pretty good, with a couple
of exceptions.
We need 100,000 serials.
And who's going to create100,000 serials?
Well, they're not out there,but there are 250,000 podcasters.

(36:37):
That's what's in the itunesdirectory, the serial podcast.
You didn't hear about serial.
Wow.
Not to call you out.
Serial is a podcast that wasdone that.
13 episodes, 72 million listeners.

(36:58):
Yeah.
So obviously I didn't listento it, but I know a lot of people
did.
But with those 250,000podcasters, probably half of those
are active, you know.
But we have a problem rightnow in the podcasting space.
Most of them are small shows.

(37:20):
And it troubles me when wehave 5% of the 250,000 shows that
are big.
Everyone really in this spacetoday needs to start hunkering down
and honing their trade.
That means investing in goodaudio equipment.
Even I have started editing alittle bit, doing things to up the

(37:45):
game of our overall production value.
And we got to grow these smallshows, not necessarily into serials,
but we need to grow the volume.
And the only way you can, guyscan do that.
And I'm going to say thatagain, it's nothing to be ashamed
of, having a small show, youknow, because if you, if you work

(38:07):
your day job, how many of youwork for a boss that talks to more
than 500 people?
Thousand people?
Most of us have bosses.
They don't talk to very many people.
We get to talk to a lot ofpeople, even the small shows.

(38:27):
So don't again that respectand in their ears, don't forget that.
And with that, you can buildupon it.
So we got to build those small shows.
We got to grow the space.
I'm going to talk about someproblem areas.
If any of you are subscribed,if any of you are listed@blueberry.com
you get our newsletter.
If any of you are subscribedto the Pottertainment magazine, it's

(38:49):
available on the iPad.
Gary Leland puts together.
You have heard some of thisstuff, but I'm going to share a couple
of things with you that I havedeep concerns on and there is a battle
afoot.
I'll talk about that.
We are at the verge ofpotentially losing the trust of the

(39:09):
media buyers.
And I'm going to say this frankly.
Never, ever, ever, ever, everlie about your numbers to a media
buyer.
If you do, you're part of the problem.
If you're not using areputable statistics service, and

(39:31):
by reputable, in my opinion,Libsyn, podtrak and Bluberry, I trust
those three, and I'm one of those.
As a disclaimer, I trust thosethree explicitly.
Other everyone else, nope, I don't.

(39:52):
And I have incidental evidencethat I can't go into details on without
potentially getting sued.
But I'm going to tell you, ifyou're bumping your numbers, you're
part of the problem.
Don't ever do that.
It's causing the CPM rates inthe podcasting space to plummet.
We have at least two Badplayers in the space.

(40:12):
They're inflating theirnumbers to ridiculous levels, which
is driving the ROI down, whichis causing a ripple effect.
I reduced the number ofpodcasting campaigns I have doing
with podcasters by 75% becauseI'm getting calls today from advertisers
saying, I got a $6 cpm dealfor you.
And I'm like, what?

(40:32):
Who are you getting that from?
And they tell me, okay, figured.
Click.
We went to an ieb.
Rob Voice is part of theInternet Interactive Advertising
Bureau meeting this week,where the tech heads got a room.
And it wasn't a knife fight,but it was pretty close.

(40:54):
And there's a lot ofdiscussion in the space.
We're trying to self policesome of these bad characters and
it's going to resolve itself,but we can't lose media buyers trust.
And I'll come back to thattopic in just a second.
Another thing we got to do iswe got to fix the Android growth
issue.

(41:14):
Every one of you needs to bepromoting Android on your show every
episode, telling your iOSaudience how to tell those Android
listeners how to subscribe to podcasts.
And I don't want to make thisa self promotion, but if you guys
heard about what we announcedon One Click, if you want details
on that, I'll give you my card.
I'll be happy to email you thepress release.
We think we've solved this.
We just need to get thedevelopers on board.

(41:35):
My goal this year is to movethe bar on Android by at least 5%.
IOS owns 87% of space right now.
We got to move that.
If we don't, we're not goingto grow as a space.
This is a big one.
The corporations are coming.
They're going to be workingwith radio and the biggest shows.

(41:57):
And I might be wrong, theymight eat my words, but frankly,
I don't think they give a crapabout the 95%.
That kind of sounds like amovement issue, right?
But it's not.
I don't think thosecorporations care about the 95%.
I may be wrong, but we have tobe careful.
We have to.
We have to circle the wagonsand make sure that we're reporting

(42:21):
correctly, that we're notjumping on the new shiny thing because,
oh, it might give me a higherreporting count.
I'm a corporation, so I guessI'm one of those.
But I've been here and I'm apodcaster and I love this space and
I don't want anything tohappen to it.
I don't want the media buyersto lose faith in the space.

(42:43):
I think there's real risk.
There's also every cyclethere's opportunist.
If you hear someone that sayssomething that sounds too good to
be true, it probably is.
Ask for proof for anyone thatyou work with or willing to write
a check.

(43:03):
I had a slide in here Iremoved because it was a little bit
inflammatory.
But if you're paying someonean annual or monthly fee to get advice,
you better be getting yourmoney's worth out of that advice.
And if you're not doing ormaking progress in what they say
that they're intended to makeyou, in other words, if they have

(43:25):
a plan for you and that planis executing, you're not going where
you need to go.
Then you need to think aboutchanging ships.
Cheaters.
It goes back to the numbers.
Cheaters were again, a groupof people trying to bump their numbers
to sell themselves or theirproduct by making themselves look
bigger than they were, makingfalse claims.

(43:48):
We just shut them down.
We shut them down at theTwitter bombing and some stuff that
was going on.
We put filters in place.
Those cheaters have moved onto other systems and they are going
to continue to say, oh, I gota million downloads this month, so
it's not all doom and gloom.
So I'm almost done here.

(44:09):
The future.
Create rich, vibrant media.
Work on it very hard.
Work on your content.
Boost it up, make it better,make it sound good.
Invest in a mic.
Have a good preamp in front of it.
Don't always jump on thehundred dollar microphone.
You want something that makesyou sound good.

(44:29):
Okay, sample mics.
Go into, you know, guitar center.
Play around with some mics.
Listen to the difference.
There is a difference in audio chains.
When you've actually investedin some gear.
Network, you got to network.
Can't do it by yourself no more.
You need 20 or 25 shows thatyou can wrap your arms around and

(44:51):
work together as a team tomove yourself forward.
Network of as many shows asyou possibly can.
Make friends in every possible way.
Promote them.
They'll promote you because webuild audience members by word of
mouth.
And if you help them, they'llhelp you.
Network, network, network andprotect your brand.

(45:11):
How many of you in here haveyour own.com?
oh, thank God it wasn't alwaysthat way.
So maybe my harping for 10years has had some effect.
Protect your brand.
Have your own dot com, youknow, and build it out.
If someone's intruding on yourbrand, doing a copycat thing, have

(45:34):
a nice discussion with them.
You can't Nest if they, youknow, you can't necessarily stop
them, but sometimes you canprotect your brand by just having
a gentle conversation with acontent creator and again, bring
the content to your audience.
I go and I get content fromother sources and I bring to it that
I don't normally cover in my show.

(45:54):
So I've done 10, 24 episodesof my regular content, but I've also
went out and got 600additional pieces of content to bring
to them for them to consumeand stay on the site.
That's not part of my regular content.
I call that my special media events.
So bring special media to them.
That keeps them engaged,brings new people in, and use good

(46:15):
metadata in your Google searchin your blog post to be able to get
Google to come in and buildyour audience.
I get about 30 to 50,000Google search hits into my site every
day.
Every place they land on mywebsite, they can subscribe.
So If I have 30 to 50,000people coming into the site every

(46:37):
day and it's just 1% click,subscribe over 10 years, that gives
you an idea what you can build.
But you got to get Google toyour site and you're not going to
do that without rich shownotes, I think.
Finally, here.
Love your family.
Talk to them in their ears,have respect, and bring value.

(47:00):
Questions?
Go ahead.
I'm Kathy Stover withkathystover.com and I just want to
thank you for being real andauthentic with us here today.

(47:24):
A lot of times you go toevents and meetings like this and
not everybody speaks fromtheir heart or tells truth.
And you did that.
Thank you very well today.
So I want to thank you for that.
Next question.

(47:45):
And we're all family here, sodon't be afraid to come up and get
the mic and.
Hi, Craig from Ingles Podcast.
I don't get why a podcasterwould record live to hard drive when
podcasting gives you thepossibility to improve the products
by editing.
Wouldn't that be better forthe podcast and for the.
For the sponsors?

(48:05):
Yes.
If you're editing, it's betterfor the listeners and for the audience.
But in my situation, I boughtgear that made me sound really good
at the end.
So I invested in the hardwareto help me limit the number of editing
sessions I would have to do.
Should I edit?

(48:26):
Absolutely.
So maybe I'm not eating my ownadvice here completely, but I'm married,
I have three kids.
You saw the number of hoursI'm staying in the studio.
Sometimes there's a trade off.
I tried to offset that byputting in enough gear that when
went in the mic and went onthe recorder, it was as close to

(48:47):
perfect as possible.
Next question.
Linda.
I'm Linda P. Jones from BeWealthy and Smart, and I've had my
podcast about a year.
I just learned here at theconference that none of the description
words that we use show up insearch engines.
It's only in the title.
So when you say rich shownotes, are those showing up on Google

(49:09):
Search is what you're saying?
And is that the show notesthat we put on Libsyn, if Libsyn
is our host?
Or are you saying on ourwebsite for.
First of all, you should justbe using Libsyn only to host your
media.
You shouldn't be on their sitefor your brand.
Well, no, I mean.
Oh, you have them hosting.
So in your blog, in your blog,your title and your description should

(49:30):
not be a cut and paste.
You can have a couple thingsin there.
It's cut and paste, maybe alink to the media.
But everything else that'sabove and that talks about your show,
you need to describe to Googlewhat's in that content.
If that takes two paragraphsor three, do that.

(49:52):
Because Google is my friend,I've gotten impacted by doing some
stuff at times.
I used to put 30 links in myblog link to every article I talked
about.
I got penalized by Googlebecause they thought I was building
a link farm.
So now I added what's called ano follow tag to each of those links,

(50:13):
and I've regained some of thelost Google traffic.
But at the top of that pagewhere I put my show notes, I put
as much detail as possible.
And Google's going to index that.
And over time, when you buildpeople sending inbound stuff to you,
it's just going to build thatGoogle traffic, and a certain number
of those folks are going to subscribe.
They should be able tosubscribe from any page on your website.

(50:37):
Okay, great.
And my other question is toget started with advertisers.
I don't have a. I mean, I havea financial site, but I don't have
something directly that I sell.
Yeah, I'd love to have aFidelity or somebody sponsor me.
How would you suggest Iapproach them for that?
Okay, so they don't have anaffiliate program.
Those relationships I madewith vendors by going to them have

(51:02):
led to a lot of sponsorshipson my show.
So if you're interviewingthose people, nurture those relationships.
And oftentimes they'll say, Iwant to be in her.
I want, I want us to advertisein her show.
That's what you can do yourself.
Financial products are tough.

(51:22):
You have to have all kinds ofdisclaimers, but it's possible.
But, you know, most of mysponsorships that I've done personally
have been through therelationships I developed by reaching
out and going to the content.
Does that answer your question?
And then you can, you know,you can use us, you can use Libsyn,
you can use PodTrack, butwe're dealing with a lot of people.

(51:45):
I like protecting my ownbottom line, so do as much as you
can on your own.
Anyone else?
Hang on one second.
I'll take it back.
I'm running around with it.
Okay?
Okay, thanks.
I came in a little bit late,so maybe you covered this.
If you did, I apologize.
No worries.
Did you cover your downloads,your numbers?

(52:13):
I saw the money part, so Iwanted to do some calculations.
Awesome, thank you.
Okay, now I'll go back.
One more slide.
There's the episode count.
Got it.
Thank you so much.
I appreciate it.
And I had a comment, actually,for the woman that was just speaking.

(52:35):
So I used to work at WellsFargo and in the social media team,
and we work very closely withthe sponsorship group.
And I can tell you that to getanything done at a big company like
that.
Right.
Requires hours and hours andhours and hours and hours and sign
off of a lot of people who arepaid a lot of money.

(52:57):
And so, you know, if it's not50 or $100,000 deal, at least to
them, it's not worth their time.
So that's just a comment.
This is where you need anetwork with 25 or 30 shows, and
collectively, you may haveenough money for her to write a check.
Companies like writing big checks.

(53:19):
I like big checks, you know,but they don't like writing small
checks.
That's right.
Because it takes me as muchtime to put together a $1,000 deal.
Almost exactly the same amountof time to put together a $1,000
deal as it does $100,000 deal.
So we all like those $100,000 deals.

(53:41):
Matter of fact, we want themevery week.
Go ahead.
Excuse me if this is a rehash,but if you could just do a couple
sentences on what RawVoice.com is.
RawVoice is the parent companyof Blueberry.com Blueberry.com is
a community of podcasters.
We provide podcast hosting,podcast statistics, and tools for
podcasters, including thePowerPress Podcasting Plugin.

(54:02):
Thanks.
So I hope you guys had a good time.
And we have more questions.
You want to stop?
Did we have any more?
Yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm coming to him because noone's coming, so we can hang all
the time.
I have two actual questions,if I could, and I'm John Sextro.
I have a couple of podcaststhis Agile Life and iOS.

(54:26):
The first question is aboutthe analytics and collecting your
download numbers.
And you mentioned three thatwere trustworthy in your mind, can
we trust Google and can wetrust feedburner?
Feedburner's a page hit counter.
They haven't invested infeedburner analytics.

(54:48):
It's good for your RSS data,it's not good for your podcast data.
Google Analytics will give yougood web data.
It'll show you the number oftimes that media file has been touched.
But unequivocally, it isabsolutely not good to give you your
download numbers.
Now, you might be able to dothe math, how much bandwidth used,
divide that into your showfile size and you can maybe come

(55:10):
up with a rough number.
But there's so many bots Ithink we have, just for the Twitter
bombing alone, we implemented140 filters.
It's insane.
It's the biggest filter setwe've ever had to put in place.
And it was because every botApple indexes Twitter.

(55:31):
Why?
We don't know.
But their bot would touch,they would touch that media file.
Now, that one wasn'tnecessarily downloading it, but some
bots, because they were usingbitly codes, they were actually going
out and downloading the mediafile, thinking it was a web page,
trying to index it.
So some of the bots were stupid.
So it was actually costingpeople bandwidth.

(55:52):
Spreaker went to the point ofactually throttling the Twitter,
the Twitter spammers.
So, and also the way media isdelivered, sometimes you could see
11 entries in a log file,which was on for someone that was
not really used to looking atlog data, that was actually one,

(56:13):
even though there was 11entries from the same IP.
Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom,boom, boom.
Again and again and again.
And to the untrained eye, itlooks like 11 and was actually 1.
So believe me, I want thenumbers to be as big as they can
be.
But I've had one saying for 10years, I don't care what the number
is, as long as I know what thenumber is.

(56:36):
And it may hurt people's egos.
We have people come our systemall the time, and the first email
I get after two weeks is, mynumbers went down.
What did you guys do?
And it's like hate mail, youknow, cussing at me over email.
What did you you guys are just broke.
No, it's not broke.

(56:58):
It's just you haven't beencalculating correctly before.
I'm sorry, but your numbersaren't what they were.
Doesn't always happen.
But you know, I just.
And if you're not doing mediabuys, you don't need stuff stats.
Matter of fact, if you're notdoing advertising, don't look at
your stats.
Spend that time improving yourtrade, getting that content rich

(57:22):
and vibrant.
You focus on the content andas the audience grows, the money
will come.
Thank you.
So my second question is about cpm.
And CPM comes to us fromtelevision, it comes to us from radio,
which are inherently flawedbecause you cannot actually collect

(57:42):
the true number of people thatare listening to a radio program
or watching a TV show.
And I just wonder if we aspodcasters have now inherited this
flawed commercial sales modelwhich isn't really based around value,
it's based around numbers.
And if, you know, I don't like cpm.

(58:04):
When I sell commercials for myshow, I don't typically sell cpm.
I have a low number oflisteners and low being 2,000, 3,000
listeners per show.
But I don't sell them on CPM.
I sell them a value.
I sell them the expert voicethat I have.
And we don't talk cpm.

(58:25):
And I think if you calculatedit back into cpm you would see that
I'm getting a lot more money for.
I'm sure you are thecommercials than if I was taking
a CPM approach.
So I just wanted to get your.
If the alignment is good withthe sponsor, flat rate's great.
I think, I think flat rate isfantastic if you can get it.
My goal in having GoDaddy for10 years was I didn't care about

(58:49):
the 90 day run, I cared aboutthe 10 year run.
I want them there for, youknow, they've been with us for 10
years.
So we worked on the GoDaddymodel was flat N CPA.
So based on the number ofsales we got additional money for
the CPA run.

(59:10):
Other deals we've done hasbeen CPM deals.
We've done flat rate.
I think if you're a smallpodcaster and you get a flat rate
with a vendor that directlyaligns with your show, you should
be able to demand a premium onthat and that may back into a 40
or $45 CPM in the end.
CPM, CPA, flat rate.

(59:31):
The only thing that counts isat the end of the month when they
look at the number of sales orif you've upticked their numbers,
what they were expecting.
If you hit that metric,they'll renew every, every, every
month.
So you know, that strategy isgood for small podcaster go after
that flat rate.
But you're going to have toreally narrow and align perfectly

(59:52):
with who you're going to be sponsoring.
And it's a product that willhelp you.
Now, one thing, I'll give youguys a little trick on.
For every sponsor, I create adedicated landing page on my website.
Why Google?
Because I'm talking about that sponsor.

(01:00:14):
I've written some content inthere about what I think.
So not only do I tell myohanaglegeeknewcentral.com GoDaddy
but GoDaddy goes to that page too.
I mean, Google goes to thatpage too.
So there could be somearbitrary traffic you're getting
from Google.

(01:00:38):
Yeah, actually everything wedo with the sponsors has a tracking
code.
All the banners, all the links have.
And they can tell, believe me,they know that traffic came from
a search engine because itcame in and they can see how that
path went.
These vendors, they know wherethat traffic's coming from.
And the folks that actuallyuse the promo code in the actual

(01:00:59):
page, that's the best.
That's the ones I want.
Because then they know therewas a direct response.
I send them my site first.
That's where I tell myaudience to go.
I have a link on the shownotes to go now.
And here's the key to that, isthat this is a long.

(01:01:23):
You know, my goal is to keepthe sponsor for a long time, so oftentimes
they'll tell me, all right,harrys.com todd or whatever.
Well, I want them to go togeeknowcentral.com Harry's and read
about the product as well.
They can go direct, but somepeople catch it in their eyes, some
people hear it in their ear,some people see it visually.

(01:01:45):
So I have banners, text, I have.
I get them all three ways.
Go ahead.
Hello, Todd, Am I on?
Yeah, thanks for being here.
Can you tell me your website?
Because I found ageeksnews.net There you go.
Okay, got it.
Geeksnews central.com Geek geek.
Geek geek.
I have one other question, ifI may be so bold.

(01:02:06):
Sure.
Because I'm shopping for apodcast hosting site and of course
I saw Libsyn and Blueberryover there.
Can you tell me why I would beswayed by Blueberry?
I mean, can I ask that question?
Are you guys okay with meanswering this question?
Okay.
We believe that podcastersshould control everything.

(01:02:31):
If I go out of business tomorrow.
PowerPress will still work.
Your website will still be up.
If my competitor goes out ofbusiness tomorrow, you know, how
do you recover from that?
That site has had the same rssfeed for 10 years.
I don't use feedburner.
I have incredible amount oftraffic to that.

(01:02:53):
They'll say, oh, don't hostyour own RSS feed because it may
not load.
They want you locked intotheir vertical.
Once you're in their system,they know you're.
It's a pain in the.
To leave.
So I say build your brand.

(01:03:16):
Use whatever.
There's other plugins.
You don't have to use ours.
Use whatever plugin.
Use whatever host you want.
But I'm just saying build yourdot com from the ground up.
I think that's the best way.
Then syndicate everywhere.
Syndicate on SoundCloud,syndicate on all the other sites.

(01:03:36):
I'm on Stitcher, I'm onSpreaker, but I syndicate over there.
I don't host with them.
I have my primary location.
So you want to be able to growyour show over time.
I'm not saying anybody's goingout of business, so don't write that
down.
But I'm just saying that webelieve that a podcaster should be

(01:03:59):
able to control his own destiny.
It's a.
It's a part of our company.
DNA.
It's my DNA.
So my DNA focused into that.
It's a little more work.
I think she's going to go, hi.
Very informative session.

(01:04:20):
Thank you.
You mentioned cereals.
Cereal.
The cereal podcast.
Cereal podcast, yeah.
What area do you think the industry.
Is looking for moreinformation in?
Is it more exercise, more business?
People love to listen to stories.

(01:04:40):
Stories.
Syria was a story.
It was Classic Journalism 101.
It was investigative journalism.
They went out and built aseries of investigative reports that
was very intriguing.
So people love a story.
So you have to be astoryteller in your shows.
I tell stories all the time inmy show.
I stop halfway through thetech content.

(01:05:02):
I get on a tangent, talk about something.
You know, I blast the peopleI'm talking about.
I praise them.
But if we can become goodstorytellers and do good investigative
work on the content that we'reputting on.
People love that kind of stuff.
How many.
You know, see, what was this show?
I'm showing my age here.

(01:05:24):
There was a television showthat was.
I think it was on cbs.
Dan Rat was a.
Who was it that did that?
It was an investigativereporter television show.
48 Hours is one.
But there's a.
It was.
There Was one.
Oh, my God.
It was famous for many yearsand it kind of fallen by the wayside.
Irregardless.

(01:05:45):
Investigative journalism andtelling stories on TV doesn't happen
anymore.
What do we hear on tv?
You know, how many times youhear about a plane crash?
A thousand times.
We don't really hear what'shappening in the world.
So tell stories.
I think we all like to hear stories.
That's what cereal did.

(01:06:08):
Is that it?
Go ahead.
Okay.
Let other people hear you.
How do you market your podcastand how many times a week do you
air your podcast?
Do you put up episodes?
I podcast twice a week.
If you're not in yourlistener's ears once a week, they
don't build you into their lives.
So I say you have to be inthere weekly.

(01:06:29):
At least I'm in twice.
Marketing my ohana market forme, my website markets for me because
I pick up listeners.
I. I say welcome to the newlisteners on every episode.
And I use social media.
I don't do a lot of extreme marketing.
But what I have done is I wentand get content for them that is

(01:06:54):
unique that no one else is bringing.
And I tell them the truth.
There's no rocket formcircuit, secret rocket formula here.
You just have to bring them content.
That's what they want.
Go ahead.
My name is Martin.
I'm from the Philippines.
Podcast Phaboute.

(01:07:17):
Thank you.
I've been going back to NABfor four years and I'd like to tell
you that this is one of thebest sessions that I've attended.
Todd, you mentioned aboutsyndicating that you syndicate with
Spreaker and others.
Does it mean you have toupload it in different.

(01:07:39):
I signed up for Spreaker's $49plan and they just pull it.
You know, they just pull it.
But hey, guess what?
A listener's a listener.
I don't care where they comefrom, but when they listen, they
know where to come back to.
They know to come back to GeekNews Central because they know there's
going to be fresh contentthere on a daily basis.
I didn't mention this, but Ialso be now, for the first five years,

(01:08:04):
I did a blog article every day.
There's 13,000 blog articleson my website.
But now I pay writers to dothat writing for me because I can,
because I don't have time todo it.
But if you're going to growyour audience, you got to build that
website traffic.
You got to write stuff aboutyour topic on off blog days.

(01:08:24):
You got to keep coming back.
That's the only way you build the.
The inbound traffic, in my opinion.
And there's, you know, you canbuy, you know, advertising stuff
that gets expensive, you know,and minimal results.
Did I answer your question?
Does it mean that you have topay every podcast platform for them

(01:08:49):
to.
No, I think I'm the only one Ipay is Spreaker.
Everything else, Stitchertakes it automatically.
Most of them just pull it.
So I think Spreakers, the onlyone I pay for, and there's not that
many.
If you were at the state ofthe podcasting speech, iOS is 87%
of this.

(01:09:09):
So those other sites are the13% of the remaining distribution.
So, you know, Is it worth 13%up tick to be in everywhere else?
Yeah, it is, if you want to be.
Well, I would say.
You want to be in Spreaker.
You want me to Stitcher.
Anyone else?

(01:09:30):
You guys are.
Where else are you guys at?
Roku.
I've got a.
We got a Roku channel.
And if you're on some of thenetworks, like if you're on Blueberry,
you're automatically in theRoku channel.
Iheartradio.
Yep.
So you can apply to be there.
Be careful on how you do thatwith them.
You have to apply.

(01:09:51):
But I think.
I think Pandora is going tohave podcasting soon.
I think.
What was one other.
Huh.
Spotify.
Probably Spotify as well.
So, you know, I'm just firm believer.
Be anywhere you can be so thatthey can find you.
Some companies only wanteverything still piped.

(01:10:12):
I don't believe in stillpiping, so.
That's right, because yougotta, you know, for me, it's like,
gotta keep the machinerunning, you know, gotta keep the
wheel greased here.
So.
All right.
Yes, go ahead.
We're probably close to 70.

(01:10:33):
They didn't know that.
They had no idea.
They.
She called me, she said, youwant to hear a funny story?
She called me, she says, how's300 bucks a month sound?
Yes, let's do it.
So they made a mistake thefirst month after they called me
back and they said, this ishow many new customers you had.

(01:10:55):
I worked the math for a coupleof hours, spreadsheeted it out.
She made a mistake of tellingme how many domain customers and
how many hosting customer it was.
And I just kind of did somebasic plans and I went back and I
said, here's the new number.
And I should have put a biggernumber on it because she said, okay.
Didn't even blink.
You know, it's one of thoseyou miss, you know, you should have

(01:11:15):
put a little more on but thatbase number that I agreed to 10 years
ago is my base number today.
So be careful of that firstnegotiation because you may be stuck
with that base for a while,you know.
So go ahead.
Yeah, it's like herding cats.

(01:11:46):
So one thing I will tell youthis on building a network, don't
ever do it co op style.
There has to be a boss.
Someone has to be the boss.
I built tech podcast as a coop that lasted two years.
You know who all did all the work?
Me.
But everyone's getting equalamount of money back.
So when I decided that wasn'tworking, I bought the network back.

(01:12:07):
I paid cash, I paid the stockand some cash to the 12 other initial.
Was that what it was?
Okay, you can stay there.
So if you're going to build anetwork, got a people you can trust.

(01:12:28):
You have to have clauses toget them out.
You can't own their contentbut you have to have minimum time
periods.
I have a small number of showsat Geek New Central that I work with
very tightly.
It's people that I really trust.
Worked with for a long time.
We signed two year deal, twoyear commitment.

(01:12:49):
They own their show, they cantake their show with them when they
leave.
They keep their brandingbecause they already had established
shows.
I only brought in establishedshows, two year commitment.
After that two years it's on amonth to month after that and we
either one of us with the 60days of discussion can get it out
even in that two years.
But I've never had anyoneleave so.

(01:13:11):
And then we agree to cross promote.
But the networking I wastalking about was not building a
network.
Have a friend network of likeminded shows.
You don't have to formallysign contracts.
It could be you reaching outto your show that you love that's
in your space or you hatethat's in your space because he's

(01:13:32):
maybe bigger than you orsmall, you know.
But you got to make thoserelationships and you know do that
Olive Garden say let's youknow both boats rise to the top at
the same time.
So yeah, when we were buildingthe tech podcast network with well
I was about to step on it,wasn't I?
The it was crazy because areyou going to do the graphics this

(01:13:54):
week?
And yeah, there has to be a boss.
If you build a formal networkand get use a lawyer.
I don't want to talkdisparagingly about anyone but there's
been a recent breakup of a bigtech network.
I don't know the legal dealsbehind that but they had a brand

(01:14:16):
that was incredibly valuable.
It's done because of some sortof disagreement.
I own 51% of everything I do,except for Rob Ways.
We're a partnership.
We have five partners thathave equal, equal value in the company.
But everything else, I own 51%in, because I don't want someone

(01:14:38):
to say, we're shutting thisdown and be forced out.
So if you have a co host, sametype of deal, you need to make some
sort.
There's someone in the.
In the co host deal has to bethe boss, and that has.
And that usually if.
But if you take on 51%, thatmeans you have to do probably 70%
of the work.
Yeah.

(01:14:58):
Or more.
So that co host thing's tough.
How many have co host.
How many of you have hadfights with your co host?
Oh, okay.
It will come.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, thanks, folks.

(01:15:21):
I remember, and I owe this to Todd.
Todd was one of the peoplewhen Rick Calvert said, who should
we get to head up the podcast space?
Because the guy had been doingit, had stepped down, and he had
called Todd.
And Todd was one of threepeople that said, why don't you get
Dave Jackson?
So thank you, Todd.

(01:15:42):
But here's the officialrelease here from POD News.
Todd Cochran, the CEOBlueberry Podcasting and an independent
podcaster, has died.
He was 61.
61, man.
In a statement from thecompany Blueberries, Barry Kantz

(01:16:02):
said his leadership passionand belief in independent creators
guided Blueberry from day one.
Todd's impact on our company,our team, and the entire podcasting
community is immeasurable.
And I realize there's a bigbrain gap here.
Everybody's like, how, what,what, how did he die?

(01:16:22):
He had a heart attack.
And that's the part that's so scary.
He's one year older than I am,and the last time I saw him, he had
dropped 30 pounds, was lookinggreat, got a great bill of health
from his doctor, was superproud of him for dropping the weight.
And then, you know, you get ablood clot that goes to your heart

(01:16:46):
and you're done.
I just.
My brain cannot process thisat the moment.
POD News ran a full obituarythat I will link to in the show notes.
But I just wanted to remindyou that when it's your time, it's
your time.

(01:17:07):
And my heart goes out to hisfamily, his children, his friends,
to everyone at Blood Blueberry.
It's.
There's a hole in thepodcasting space today and some very,
very big shoes to fill.
And hug your kids, hug yourspouse, because you just never know.

(01:17:30):
You just never know.
I will see you on.

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Todd's Presentation from the New Media Expo 2015 - Reflections on 10 Years of Podcasting

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Raising a Glass to Todd Cochran: Podcasting Pioneer