April 21, 2025 • 50 mins
Data is like your podcasting superpower, folks! If you want to grow your show, you gotta get your hands on the right stats. Seriously, knowing what’s working and what’s not can save you from wasting your time. We dive into the nitty-gritty of how to collect and use data from places like Apple and Spotify to figure out your audience and their habits. Don’t worry, we’ll also have a laugh or two about how confusing all this can be, because who doesn’t love a good irony sandwich? So, buckle up, and let’s turn those numbers into something that actually helps your podcast shine!
Data Sources:
You can see how many Apple followers you have, and how far they are listening (and compare episodes to median and best numbers.
You can see how many Spotify followers you have as well as demographic data of your audience. You can also see how far people listen. You can also see how often your show was shown, and how that lead to people listening.
You can see how many people on Amazon Music are following you, how many downloads you get and how far people listen
Your Media Host
This could be Captivate, Buzzsprout, Blubrry, Transistor, Libsyn, etc (I do not recommend Spotify). Here you can see how many downloads you get per episode, and see the location of your audience.
Google Analytics
Here you can see the top pages of your website, among many other things. You can find it at analytics.google.com
YouTube
YouTube statistics are impressive and show you an insane amount of detail. The stat I look at is how far people watch. Keep in mind a video on a YouTube short is anything above zero
Audience Survey
When in doub,t ASK YOUR AUDIENCE. This is the #1 way to get direct feedback from your audience. Check out the book, "The Audience in Listening" by Tom Webster, regarding creating a survey (or use the one built into Podpage).
Takeaways:
- Data is your podcasting superpower; it helps you know what's working and what's not.
- If you're seeking sponsors, understanding your audience demographics is absolutely essential.
- Start with the end in mind; knowing your goals helps you get the right data.
- Don't just hope for feedback; ask your audience directly with surveys for better insights.
- Using platforms like Google Analytics can reveal hidden gems about your podcast's online performance.
- Remember, marketing your podcast is as essential as creating it; be strategic about your approach.
Links...
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(01:58):
Today on episode number 980 ofthe school of Podcasting. Mary, Mary,
your podcast is scary. How dowe make it grow? With stats and views
and maybe a new attitude. Hangon, I'll tell you what to do. The
School of Podcasting with DaveJackson. Podcasting since 2005, I
(02:21):
am your award winning hall offame podcast coach, Dave Jackson.
Thanking you so much fortuning in. If you're new to the show,
this is why I help you plan,launch and grow your podcast. My
website is school ofpodcasting.com use the coupon code
listener when you sign up foreither a monthly or yearly subscription.
(02:42):
And so today, what we'retalking about is, and this is it
in a nutshell, if you get theright data, you can figure out what
you're doing right. And whenyou know what you're doing right,
you can do more of that. Thankyou. Good night. It's been nice.
Thank you. But this was apresentation I did at Podcast Movement
(03:05):
Evolutions, and there's astory behind this that I will share
at the end. But the firstthing you have to figure out is start
with the end in mind. This isfrom the book 7 Habits of Highly
Effective People. And it makesa ton of sense. This. If you are
a person that is logicallyoriented. I am. I mean, not that
(03:28):
I'm like, not, you know,emotional, but like, if you can show
me exactly how something worksand why it works, yeah, you'll have
me all day. And so, forexample, if I want to get sponsors
for my show, they're going towant to know who is listening, how
old they are, how much moneythey make, if they're married, do
(03:50):
they have kids, etc. Etc. Soif I am looking for sponsors, I need
to somehow get that data. Doyou get that information from Apple?
Nope. Do you get it fromSpotify? A little bit. I don't think
they give you their age, butthey do give you their. No, they
do give you an age range.Right. So start with the end of my
(04:14):
what do you need? And thenlet's say I am looking for sponsorships.
Now, for the record, rememberthat if you want one of the big,
big, big, big sponsors, youknow, the mattress people, the better
help to the world that 90% ofyou do not have enough downloads.
A lot of times people spendthat, you know, 10% of podcasters
(04:35):
can get a big spot, yet 90% ofyou don't. Not to be a big downer,
but I like to, I don't know,reveal reality sometimes to people.
So you're Saying, I got achance. So keep that in mind. It
doesn't mean you can't have asponsor. Means you can't have a big,
big, big, big sponsor,probably, but show them the data.
(04:56):
Hey, here's. Here's who Ihave. Here's what I want. And that's
just for sponsors. So keepthat in mind, whatever you're trying
to do. If you're trying to getpeople on your show, then make a
page that shows all theprevious guests. And my, you know,
podpage does thisautomatically. And I work for them.
(05:20):
I'm the head of podcastingover at PodPage. It's a great way
to make a website withouthaving to learn how to code. So all
sorts of data can be used todo things. But data or data, take
your pick, is your superpower.It is what you can use to figure
out what's working and what'snot. Now, here's the thing. Here
(05:44):
are a couple ways you can getdata. Data, take your pick. Number
one, Apple Podcast Connect itis. And I'll have links to all these
out in the show notes. So ifyou're like, wait, I can't remember
all these. And I am kind ofgiving you a list, and anytime you
give somebody a list, thatlist should be in your show notes.
So today this is episodenumber 980, which means I should
(06:08):
start thinking about what todo with episode 1000. But at any
rate, the links will be outthere for that. And so here they
are, podcasts with an sconnect.apple.com so here you can
see how far people arelistening. And I will tell you right
now, be careful what you wishfor, because there are times when
(06:29):
I've helped people get inthere, the first time they go, I'm
getting a 37%. Is that good?And I go, I'm an old teacher, where
100, you know, 90 is an A, 80is a B, 70 is a C, 60 is a D, and
anything below 60 is an F, andyou have a 39. And then I watch them
(06:50):
do the math and I go, but thegood news is you can fix that. So
keep that in mind. Podcasters,again with an s.Spotify.com will
show you how far peoplelisten, but it will also show you
their demographics. So how oldthey are. Are they male, female,
other, etc. Etc.Podcasters.Amazon.com is pretty much
(07:15):
exactly like Spotify. Theydon't show you age information, but
they will show you how farpeople listen. If you get enough
people to listen on Amazon,and for most of my shows. I for whatever
reason I know Amazon is hugein India but for my listeners, nobody's
listening on Amazon Music,which is a bummer. I wish Amazon
(07:37):
kind of part of that. I thinkthe problem with Amazon is when you
go to there, the first thingthey do and I mean the minute you
hit that page they're likesign up now for Amazon Music. And
you're like, look, I'm justtrying to figure it out, like how
to log in and stuff. They're alittle aggressive on sign up for
Amazon Music. Another one isanalytics.google.com better known
(08:02):
as Google Analytics. And thisshows you what is happening on your
website because you might findout that hey, there's a really popular
episode that you can see inyour media host. We'll get to that
in a second. And it's notreally showing that popular on my
(08:23):
website. Maybe you have areally horrible title like episode
16, name of show, somethinglike that. But Google Analytics can
show you what is working onyour website. And I have an exercise
you can do with that. I'll betalking about a little later that
I was amazed at how well itworked. If you have your show on
(08:46):
YouTube you can go intoYouTube studio and see again how
far people listen, how farpeople or how people found you what
you had for lunch last Tuesdaywhen it was a full moon. I mean there
are tons of stats in YouTubestudio and then your media host and
most media hosts will give youaccess to your downloads. So you
(09:10):
can see what's the mostpopular. You can see where your audience
is. So how many people in Stanare listening to your show and things
of that nature, which is kindof handy if you plan on going on
tour, you can say because someof them you'll actually see the cities.
And so if you plan on doing alive tour or if you just want to
(09:31):
drive around the country andRV and talk to your people like my
buddy Glenn the geek did manymoons ago with Horse Radio Network.
You know, why not go wherepeople are? That would make sense.
And then the last one and I donot understand why every single one
of you is not doing this. Andthat is an audience survey. Whether
(09:53):
this via Google forms. Again,it's building the pod page tally.
So you know, gee, my showisn't growing. Wouldn't step number
one be ask the people that areconsuming it? That that doesn't seem
like that far of a stretch tolike how can we make this better?
(10:14):
You know, if you were arestaurant and you kept giving people
bread and nobody ate itWouldn't the first thing you do go,
hey, how come you're noteating the bread? And they'd go,
oh, there's no salt in it. Oh,we can fix that. And I realize the
biggest reason I think, isthere are two reasons why I think
(10:35):
people don't do audiencesurveys. Number one, you are deathly
afraid that if you ask forfeedback, you will get zero. And
that's a thing that happens.But that in itself is feedback. When
you think about it, that'sfeedback. It's not the feedback we
want. But if you're like, Iasked for people to fill it out,
(10:55):
and I waited two months, and Istill had zero responses. Well, I
would say we need to changesomething with the show, because
we can't even get one personto tell you, hey, this isn't very
good, or, hey, I really,really love this show, but those
are the different ways rightnow that you can get feedback. Now,
there is one other one, andthat's going where your audience
(11:18):
is. So, for me, because I do apodcast about podcasting, I go to
podcast events, andoccasionally I will bump into somebody
who said, hey, I listened toyour show. And I go, oh, thank you
so much. And then I'd givethem a quick survey. What do you
like about it? What do youwish I would change? And the key
to that is to shut up. Like,so, what do you like about it? And
(11:40):
then shut up. And they willtell you, and then go, is there anything
you wish I would change? Andthey'll go, no, I love the whole
thing. And then you. You justembrace the awkward silence and hope
that they'll give yousomething. But those are all the
different places. Now, I knowyou're like, dave, that is eight
different places to go to getthe information. Ugh. It's so much
(12:02):
work. I have to click a mouse.Dave, you want me to click a mouse
and click a mouse again. Areyou kidding me? I get it. Do you
eat? I eat food. You know, thefood stuff. Do you do that? I do
that. And. And it is soannoying when you go into a grocery
store and you've got yourlist. I need bread. I need ice cream.
(12:26):
I need hamburger. I need, youknow, whatever. Potato chips, eggs,
et cetera. And it is soannoying that they are not all in
the same aisle. Have you everbeen there? You're like, wait a minute.
I got to go to the dairy aisleto get eggs, and then I got to walk
all the way over here to getgreen beans. Ugh. And yet we do it.
(12:47):
Why? Because we want to eat.Eating helps us live. If we don't
eat, we tend to die. Most ofus, I believe. So this is data that
can help you live, that canhelp you wait, not waste your time,
help you figure out what'sworking. You just have to go to a
few places to do it. And Iknow that involves clicking on a
mouse, or you could just wasteyour time. Take your pick. So think
(13:13):
about this. You want to make agood first impression on your website
and you can do things likefeature episodes on your front page.
Why? Why would you do that?Because you want to make a good first
impression. Why not go intoyour media host? I like Captivate,
(13:34):
Buzzsprout, blueberry, Libsyn.Those are those. I know you're like,
but what about Spotify? Yeah,not my favorite at all, free media
hosts. But you can go in andfind out what really worked. And
why not put those on the frontpage? Because now think about it.
Somebody finds your show andyou have a little featured episode
section and they click on itlike, oh, this is really good. And
(13:57):
how do you know it's reallygood? Because a lot of people clicked
on it. And again, this iswhere maybe you go into Apple and.
And see what has the highestcompletion rate. The idea is this
is the first impression andyou want it to be good. And look,
I know right now I want thisto be the best episode ever, but
sometimes your latest episodeis not your best episode ever. How
(14:18):
do you know? Go into theseplaces and find out what's the best
stuff. And if you want to havea featured section, base it on what
you know works and put that upfront. Now there are a couple different
places you can see stats, andwe're going to talk about Spotify.
I know I just said to Spotify.I don't mind them where, you know,
(14:43):
if you want to listen to me onSpotify, I just want to host my show
there. They're run by themusic business and they're kind of
a bunch of weasels and theylike to do things that benefit Spotify,
which makes sense because it'sa business. But anyway, so first
of all, we're going to talkabout show stats. There are. There's
show information and there'sepisode information. So right now
(15:04):
we're talking about your showand you can go into Spotify's dashboard
and you can see how manypeople have downloaded and then they
have a bunch of weird words.And this is where John Spurlock,
who's a big giant nerd, anddoes Opie 3 stats, which is free.
(15:26):
And he's kind of saying, hey,can we all get on the same page?
Kind of a podcasting 2.0thing, so that we could all kind
of get all this information inone place. John's a great guy. I
met him briefly at Evolutionsand very tall. And I was like, okay.
And it's a great idea. He'sgot a long road to get this to work,
(15:48):
but I like it because he'sapproaching it from an app standpoint.
Because a lot of times the apppeople kind of get lost in the shuffle
here. But when you look atyour stats, you'll see one stat called
Starts. Well, as you mightimagine, that's how many times somebody
pressed play. And then you seestreams, and you're like, wait, what's
(16:10):
the difference between a startand a stream? A stream is how many
times somebody listened to 60seconds or more in Spotify. So, for
instance, I'm looking at ascreen and this is where we go with
numbers in an audio podcast.But I had 121,000 streams, but 259,000
(16:30):
starts. So that means a bunchof people click start, but not all
of them made it to the 62ndmark. You also have a listener stat.
That is how many actualpeople. So you could have a number
of people. And then some ofthem click start more than once,
obviously. And then some ofthem made it to 60 seconds, and then
(16:53):
followers is the number wereally want. We really want followers.
Now, in Spotify, you can seehow many people are male, how many
people are female, how manypeople are really confused, not sure.
Not there's one. Just. I don'tknow. So whatever it is. And then
you can go in and see theirage groups. And so it's 0 to 17,
(17:14):
18 to 22, 25 to 27. I'm sorry,23 to 27. Apparently, Dave needs
new glasses, et cetera, etcetera. So you get that. And that's
for the show. All of yourepisodes put together. And then in
Spotify, they have a coolthing. We just did an episode of
(17:34):
Ask the Podcast Coach, talkingabout, should you have episodic artwork?
And I am of the camp. Yeah.Because it's, I don't know, a minute
and a half to make. Makeyourself a quick little template
that has your logo and yourcolors, and you go in and you add
a new background, you changethe title and you're done. And it
(17:54):
just, you know, it kind ofcatches your eye in a way. And so
in Spotify, and that's theonly place you can get this you can
see how many people yourpodcast was put in front of. So on
the screen that I'm looking atright Now, I had 131 people in 30
days. Then how many peopleshowed intent? That means they clicked
(18:16):
on it. And that in this casewas 19. And then how many people
actually clicked on play was14, which is again sometimes dismal
because you're like, wait,this got in front of 131 people and
only 14 people clicked on it.Yes, that's exactly what that means.
And that's where you go, maybeit's the title of your episode, maybe
(18:40):
it's the description of yourepisode, maybe it's the artwork,
but it's something that youcan measure, which means it can be
something that can beimproved. You just have to watch
it. But you have to be carefulwith that because if you spend all
day looking at your stats andnot looking at your audience, although
in a way you are looking atyour audience, you can really get
(19:01):
lost in the numbers. So becareful with that. And then in Spotify,
you can see, where did peoplefind your content? Was it on the
Spotify home? In my case, itwas way more in Spotify Search. That's
where titles come into playagain. And nobody's searching for
episode 16 and then theSpotify library and then other Spotify
(19:23):
features. And so I saw in minewhere I had a big old Spike on March
18, and I looked at the titleof the episode and I was talking
about video shorts versusvideo longs on Ask the Podcast Coach,
and that caused a bit of aspike. So you can see what's working.
(19:43):
So you can do more of that.That's all in the show stats. We're
not talking episodes yet. Youcan then click into an episode and
you get the same exact stuff.How many people started it, how many
people went 60 seconds, howmany unique listeners you had. And
again, be careful because youcan see how far people listen. Now,
(20:06):
when you look at these kind ofgraphs, it looks like a big giant
hill. And at the beginning ofit, people are just diving off left
and right, so it looks likeNiagara Falls, this huge just slope.
And that's because this iswhere seeing how many followers you
have, your followers are goingto skip your intro because they've
(20:26):
heard me a million times say,podcasting since 2005, I'm your award
winning, blah, blah, blah. Sothey skip that. And so that's kind
of normal. But you will seehow far people listen. And again,
I'm an old teacher. I amalmost happy with 70%, because that's
a C. I'm really shooting for80s and 90s. The other thing you
(20:52):
want to do, and I'm justthrowing this in as bonus, kind of
because we're talking aboutSpotify, but this also applies to
all the other apps, and thatis, Please, for the love of God,
quit saying find me whereveryou find your podcast. This week
on Ask the Podcast Coach, Idid this live by accident, but it
proves that, that when yousearch for a podcast in Spotify,
(21:17):
Apple's a little better, butthere this still happens. And I searched
for the future of podcastingthat show. So I went to Spotify,
and call me crazy, I typed infuture of podcasting, and you know
what came up? Nothing. A bunchof stuff that wasn't future of podcasting.
And I was like, ugh. So ifyou're, you know, there might be
(21:38):
somebody in, you know, mylistening realm, and I said, hey,
find me wherever you find yourpodcast. They type in future of podcasting
nothing. And then they. Well,that's. Maybe I do that. No, you
know, and guess what? They'vealready left. And you go, but maybe
they tried again. No, theydidn't. They left. They left because
there was too much friction.And so I went back because it was
(22:02):
my show. I'm like, what theheck? And I typed in the future of
podcasting, and it came up. Soplease quit saying find me wherever
you find your podcast andinstead make a page on your website.
I would make it slash follow,because, you know, that's what the
kids call it and have a linkto Apple and Spotify. And I heart
(22:26):
if you want to look cool.Although I don't get much traffic
over there. Probably overcast.And Pocket Cast. Pocket Cast right
now is my favorite app. I lovethat. If I have time, I'll tell you
about that. If not, we'll talkabout that in the future. But I'm
just here to tell you. Andwhile we're at it, I heard somebody
say this today, and so I'mjust going to let you know. Ratings
and reviews do not help youget found in Apple. They are social
(22:49):
proof, but they do not helpyou up the charts. Per Apple. Per
Apple. Apple said that, notDave Jackson. I'm just repeating
it. Ratings and reviews do nothelp you move up the chart. So please
quit saying that. Anonymouspodcast guru. I don't know, man.
I can't take it anymore. Someother things you can do if you need
(23:09):
your link, because I just saidit's hard to find one. Well, when
you find it, you can go intothese places and get the link to
your show. And again, notmaking this a giant pod page commercial,
but you'll understand why thisis in here. You can basically go
into pod page under settingsand go to podcast player links and
copy and paste the link inthere and then we make a slash follow
(23:30):
page for you. All right.Podcast connect.apple.com as I've
mentioned again, they do makesome really cool marketing stuff
for you. They make a QR codeso if you want to promote your stuff
on that. But they, they giveyou a bunch of analytics. So followers
again, are those people that.You guessed it. I know. Shocking.
(23:52):
Follow your show A listener isthe total number of people that listen
to your show. Engagedlisteners. Now this is a stat that
I want to watch. This ispeople who have listened to at least
40% of your episode or atleast 20 minutes, whichever one comes
first. So yeah, that's thepeople we want. Plays is the total
(24:13):
number of times people pressplay on your episode. So if you have
a listener and it takes themthree times to get through your episode
because they had to go to thedentist, that's one listener, three
plays. Then they show you yourtop countries again, I guess if you
want to go on tour and the topcities. So keep that in mind. You
(24:35):
have followers, Listeners,engaged listeners and plays. Now
you can also see how, how manypeople are following your show. Not
so much how many, but thepercentage. It's 86% in the slide
I'm looking at and that's nottoo shabby. Again, that's a B. It's
almost an A. I want that 90%.So if you're listening to this in
(24:57):
Apple podcasts, hey, go up andclick on the plus, sign the plus
button and take a peek atthat. But you can go in. And again,
Apple likes things verypretty. So they make great looking
graphs. So you can say, hey,show me a graph over this month and
show me how my followers went.Is it going up or is it going down?
(25:19):
You can go in as well and dothat for listeners. You can really
dig into your stats and seewhat's going on. But you can also.
So that's for the show. Again.Remember, there is show data and
then there's episode data. Andyou can go into the episodes and
I can see where just on thefront page of this, I have a lot
(25:40):
of 70s, 72, 75, 79. I do have169, that's a D. But I also have
a couple 88s. I got a 92, Igot a 77. I'll take that. And then
you can also go in. And ifyou're an Excel nerd, I'm an Excel
nerd. I taught Microsoft Excelfor a decade. And if you are a person
(26:01):
that wants to really go in andcrunch the numbers, you can download
that. And so I can see howmany people were engaged. And again,
your mileage may vary. Becareful because it might kind of
kick you where it counts. Butwhat I love is you can go into a
graph and again, just like inSpotify, it shows you how far people
(26:21):
listened. And what'sinteresting is, again, you're gonna
have a huge drop off at thebeginning from all your followers.
And you can also see theminute you say, hey, thanks so much
for tuning in, people aregone. Like, you don't even get a
chance. That's why if you everwonder why I do my advertising for
me in the middle of the show,why do I do that? Dave, you interrupted
(26:44):
an interview to talk aboutyou. Ugh. Well, I know I appre. I
know it's not the best place.I have been waiting till the interview
was over as of recent, butit's usually around the 20 minute
mark. Why? Because I feel likeit. That's really the science behind
it. Dave, why did you pick themiddle of the show? I felt like it.
It's my show, but I always tryto tease up an ad. So I'll be like,
(27:08):
hey, in a minute I'm going totell you how to turn dog poop into
gold right after this. Andthen I play the ad. And I'm hoping
you will stick around to hearthat. And thank you, Steve Martin.
And you can go in. I can seein this graph where I ran my ad because
there's a little dip wherethose people who don't have the phone
in their pocket go, hold on.And they hit the old 62nd skip. So
(27:31):
I can see that and you can seehow much of your audience is doing
that. So again, what does thismean? Well, if that number was drastic,
now on mine, it's not. It's.It's, you know, it's. It's down a
little bit, but they also comeright back up. That's the beauty
of it. But if I had a big oldpeople just skipping everything,
I would then look at, hmm,maybe I need to work on how I'm delivering
(27:53):
ads. Or maybe my ads are, Idon't know, zero relevant to my audience
and they're all like, I don'tdo this. And they're skipping. So
these are things you can dowith that. You can also go into Apple
Podcasts and see the median.Yay. Fun with math. That's the midpoint.
(28:13):
That means 50% of items getmore than this and 50% get less.
The average is. You guessedit. Yeah. Huh. The average. And then
you can see your top episode.So I can go into Apple Podcasts and
say, show me the median. Andthen show me this episode. This episode
and this one. And ah, yeah,that one too. And then you can see
(28:34):
how do you measure up to that50% mark? And again, not always a
happy time to look at thosekind of stats, but that's why we're
looking at them. It's not thatwe like rejoice in bad numbers, but
it is a thing to go, allright, I've got some work to do.
(28:56):
And then you can come backlater and look at these. If you compare
it to your top episode, thatis a bit of a kick in the pants,
but you want to see how itcompares. Again, the best way to
find out how you're doing isto ask your audience. So keep that
in mind. This one reallyhurts. If you're an Apple podcast
(29:18):
and you see the information.Not enough data or data. Take your
pick. Message and analytics.Not enough data Message in analytics,
your show has not met the datathreshold for the time frame specified.
At least five unique listenersmust play content for your show within
the selected time frame foranalytics metrics you selected. Which
(29:41):
means you don't even have fivepeople listening to this. Now this
is one of the things you wantto do when you go into these different
places to look at stats,there's usually a little dropdown
where you can pick last sevendays, last 30 days, last 90 days.
And so in some cases, if it'snot five listeners, if you're a brand
new show, that might be normalfor seven days, but it's when you
(30:03):
go all time, like show me alltime stats and you still get the
not enough data. That hurts.I'm not going to lie. Like, I haven't
really had five listeners, butyou know, depending on where you're
at now when we look at Amazon,it is. I'm not going to repeat it.
It's the same stuff I justsaid plays listeners, people that
(30:23):
listen longer than 60 seconds.But here's some things. If you're
on Amazon Music and youraudience is older and they like the
woman in the tube who I willrefer to as Lexi, so we don't trigger
yours, you can say thingslike, Lexi, play the podcast and
then give the Title. Now, thatdoes not always work. There are many
(30:46):
times when I ask Lexi to playthe school of podcasting, and she
will play the school ofnursing. And I'm like, where did
I say nursing? You can alsonavigate between episodes. You can
say, lexi, play the nextepisode, play the latest episode.
All sorts of fun. Lexi, fastforward, rewind. It's pretty handy.
(31:06):
Keep that in mind if you're onAmazon Music. They will do that on
Amazon Music. Now, one of thethings I love about pocketcast is
you can install the PocketCast app on your device from Amazon
and say, hey, Lexi, open. Oh,I almost said it. Pocket Cast. And
she will say, would you liketo continue listening to the latest
(31:27):
episode? Whichever one isthere. And it's. It's beautiful.
But that is something. Ifyou're not on Amazon Music, it's
Amazon wouldn't hurt. Now, thenext place that we've talked about,
different places you can getstats, is Google Analytics. And here's
the beauty of GoogleAnalytics. It is free. Absolutely
(31:47):
free. You copy and paste a bitof code onto your website. You do
have a website, right? I hadsome people this week I was working
with, and I was like, oh, if Iwant to send people to your stuff,
like, what's your website? Andtheir answer was, I don't have one.
And I'm like, what? Andthey're like, yep, don't have one.
And I'm like, but like, how doyou. And they're like, oh, we go
(32:10):
by word of mouth. We do a lotof business just by referrals. And
I'm like, well, that's great.But just think how much more you
would have if you had awebsite. You. You got to be kidding
me. What year is it? And Idon't mean a link in bio link tree.
No, but anyway, GoogleAnalytics, you've heard of them,
Google, you can go in and I'mhere to tell you, you can see some
(32:33):
insane stuff. And I can see.Here's the one. You guys ready? This
is something you can do today.And I'm here to tell you it works
because I thought, really? Andthen I did it and it was like, oh,
now it's not again, bazillionsof people. But if you're used to
getting zero people to yournewsletter, do this. You ready? It's
(32:53):
easy. Go into GoogleAnalytics. Now, hopefully you've
had it on your website thiswhole time. If not, put it on your
website today. You're lookingat, I don't know, 20 minutes because
you're learning it, but itreally is just copy and paste. And
now Google will startstanding, sending you stuff, and
you can go in and say, hey,show me the top pages on my website.
(33:17):
And you can even say, give methe top 10. And so my one of my top
ones is still me. Bashinganchor. Before it was Spotify for
podcasters because it'shorrible, in my opinion. And then
I had other things about howto take phone calls on a podcast
and blah, blah, blah, whateveryour list is, find them and make
(33:38):
a lead magnet. Now, a leadmagnet is something that is quick,
it's short, it's to the point,and it solves a problem. And so I
have one about how to takephone calls on a podcast, which basically
says, what are you, PhilDonahue, who takes phone calls on
a podcast? Use these othertools. Because if you actually want
to take phone calls on apodcast, it's a little more complicated.
(34:01):
But I made lead magnets,little ones. And, and the one, I
think it was that one, the.The one about taking phone calls
on a podcast. But I justremember thinking, I can't come up
with a lead magnet for this. Idon't understand what problem I'm
solving. And so I just simplyput, would you like a PDF of this
post? Click here and downloadthe PDF today. Now, you know that
(34:25):
I know that you know that Iknow you could simply bookmark that
page and come back to itanytime you want. But instead I had
a handful of people that said,yeah, I'll take the PDF. And I'm
like, okay, so that's an easyone with Google Analytics is to see
what's working on the website.What are you can also see in Google's
(34:47):
dashboard, not in analytics,but the actual Webmaster dashboard.
So that would be source numbernine. You can see what people are
searching for to find you soyou can do more of that. And so Google
Analytics can be really handyin terms of what is working on the
web so that you get anotherdata set to go. Huh, I didn't realize
(35:09):
that I have a really popularpage on blog talk radio that still
gets traffic. And blog talkradio has been dead for the better
part of six months, maybelonger. But you get these pages and
it can help see what's doing.And I'm here to tell you, do that.
Find your top five then onGoogle Analytics and make sure that
(35:32):
you have a lead magnet onthat. Why? Because you're playing
in traffic. I know mom saiddon't play in traffic. I'm here to
tell you, no, play in traffic.Make a lead magnet for that episode.
And you will get more peopleon your email list than you did before
you did that. Guarantee it. Iwas really surprised when I did that.
So find your pages and dothat. Now. Another thing you can
(35:55):
do with Google Analytics, andI'll put a link to this is I did
an episode a while ago onUtms. This was way back on episode
number 896, back in the day.And URL stands for Urchin Tracking
Module. Utm. Excuse me. URL isyour website and you can easily make
(36:22):
these. It's a piece of cake.And I'll put a link to the UTM maker
from Google. It is ugly, it isgray, but you basically can go in
and put in the website thatyou're sending people to. They ask
for a campaign. So that couldbe really anything you want. That
(36:46):
one is optional. But they havea campaign source. So this could
be like newsletter, website,whatever. And so a lot of times I
will put podcast, then an askfor the medium, and I will say, you
know, there are all sorts ofdifferent ways you could do this.
I could put podcast there. Itis a little confusing. I will not
lie there. I'm like, hmm, whatdo I put there? And I kind of go,
(37:09):
take two minutes and figureout how you're going to fill these
out and make a note and thenjust be consistent. So maybe the
campaign source is the episodenumber and the medium is podcast.
And then the campaign name,and then you're like, oh, wait, is
the campaign name the samething as the campaign source? And
that's where I always get alittle confused. And so I have a
(37:32):
yellow sticky note that I willmake and put on my computer so I
can fill these outconsistently. That way I can see
where my traffic is comingfrom. The old joke is 50% of my marketing
works. I just can't tell which50%. And this will help you see,
this is where I did episodes abit ago about how my newsletter is
(37:57):
driving more traffic thansocial media. A lot more. And how
do I know that? Because Istarted using these. And the whole
point again is to find outwhat's working so you can do more
of that. So do I spend moretime on my newsletter now than I
do on my social media? Youbet. And when I did my audience survey,
(38:19):
I spend a lot of time onFacebook and X because I'm old. And
it turns out a lot of myaudience is on LinkedIn and I, I
am trying to get intoLinkedIn. Every time I log into LinkedIn,
somebody wants to shoot me tothe top of Apple charts, sign here.
And I'm like, ugh, it's justnot a great experience on me. But
(38:42):
I realize that's where myaudience is. And how do you grow
your audience, figuring outwho your audience is, finding out
where they are and you gothere and make friends and then you
tell them about your show. Andso I was able to see where I got
more traffic from Substackright now I have a newsletter on
that. I got 10 people fromChat GPT. I had 10 people came to
(39:06):
my website from my signature.So there's something you can do right
now that again, I'm 10 isbetter than a poke in the eye. Most
things are. But put a link toyour website in your email signature
because somebody will readthis and even if they skip by what
you said, they see that linkat the bottom, they will click on
(39:27):
it. And if you want to learnmore about Google Analytics, they
have an Analytics Academy. Soif you just Google the phrase Google
Analytics Academy, it's a freecourse and you can take that. So
keep that in mind. And I'vekind of been hinting at the last
one. And again, I will justbeat this dog, which is a very weird
(39:51):
saying, or beat the horse orwhatever. I'm just here to tell you,
do an audience survey. If youdon't know how to do an audience
survey, I strongly urge you toread the book the Audience is Listening
by Tom Webster. It is anamazing book. The tagline A little
(40:15):
guide to building a bigpodcast. And I'll have links to that
out in the show notes. And ifyou have PodPage, you will see where
the built in audience surveyin PodPage with Tom Webster's approval
is using many of the questionsin that book. But you do have to
be aware of the mom test,right There is a book by Rob Fitzpatrick
(40:38):
and I just heard about thisbook and it talks about how even
when you ask your audience,this is where I kind of like it to,
where at the very end they canremain anonymous because if they've
really just pooped all overyour show, they may not want you
to know it came from thembecause you know it was your cousin
Ernie. But you can leave themanonymous or you can have them if
(41:02):
they want to optionally signin. And there are people like mom
that will say, oh, this isamazing, it's awesome. And they're
saying that to your face.Whereas if you let them be anonymous,
maybe they'll be a little morehonest. And that gives you again
the opportunity to better yourshow when your show is better. Then
(41:28):
you get more downloads, you'llhave more. You're. You're more likely.
I'll give you an example Ihad, and he's such a nice man. But
I went to a church and thepastor was old. There's no other
way to say that. And it'sgoing to happen to me someday when
(41:49):
I'm behind the mic and I'm notmaking any sense, because, you know,
there's a hole in the marblebag. It's going to happen to all
of us. And consequently, youknow, when you go to a church, the
message part of the service isa good 20 to 30% of your service.
And if that's awful, thelikelihood of the people attending
(42:12):
that service saying, you needto come here. Our pastor, he's amazing,
is pretty low. And so wereplaced him and with his kind of
blessing and attendance is upbecause the value delivered at that
church is more than it used tobe. And people are more likely to
(42:36):
recommend something that isgood. And that doesn't mean your
show is awful, but you do needto be better than average, maybe
if you really want people tostand out. My favorite Beatle, Paul
McCartney, said, if you wantto be remarkable or no, if you want
to be memorable, you have towrite songs that are easy to remember,
(43:02):
because back then theycouldn't just record it into their
phone. So when he and JohnLennon were writing songs for the
Beatles, the way theyremembered them was writing songs
that were memorable. And so ifyou want people to tell their friends
about the show, you know, youhave to make things that are remarkable,
meaning your friends will makeremarks about your show. And that's
(43:26):
not as easy as it sounds. Sowe went over all these sources. We
saw what they can give you,right? So your media host can give
you downloads and see what'spopular there and where it's coming
from. Your Apple and Spotifycan show you how many followers you
have and how far peoplelisten. Your Google Analytics can
(43:50):
show you what's working onyour website because that may not
always be in tune with what'sgoing on with your media hosts and
Apple Podcasts. YouTube Studiocan show you how far people view.
And keep in mind, you got togo review what is a view on YouTube.
I know YouTube shorts. If I dothis, I'm going to tap on the mic.
(44:11):
You ready for this? If I dothis, that long counts as a view.
On a YouTube short, there isno small like you. Like zero is a
view. If somebody presses thebutton on YouTube for. For a millisecond,
it counts as a view, which Ithink is kind of silly. So you have
to be careful with that,because there are times when people
like, man, I got a hundredthousand views on my YouTube short.
(44:34):
Yeah, that's. You really wantto go over. And from what I understand
on YouTube, a completionthat's good is 50%. Now, does that
mean I feel good when I get50%? No. Why? Because I am Dave Jackson.
I want 90s, I want 80s, 70s.I'm like, but 53 to me is an F. And
(45:00):
I said, there was a storybehind this presentation. And I'm
going to tell you the behindthe scenes of how this came about
right after this. Yeah, yeah,yeah. So that presentation was supposed
to be delivered by the one andonly Brennan Mulligan, the founder
and lead developer at PodPage.And I was there working the PodPage
(45:23):
booth, and he called me abouttwo days before the day that presentation
was. He's like, hey, my kidsare sick and I may not be able to
leave because leaving twochildren, very, very young children
sick with your spouse is notgoing to go over well with that spouse.
(45:45):
I was like, okay. He's like,so we might need a plan B. He called
me the next day and said, yep,we're going with plan B because now
my wife is sick. And I said,that's great. Just send me the slides.
And he had not finished themyet. And I said, can you send me
an outline and just do yourpresentation into, like, a video,
(46:10):
like a loom video or a televideo? And he did that. And I grabbed
an old presentation I had withsome stats, Frankensteined it together,
and there it was. And I hadpeople, which was nice. Gave me some
great feedback at the end ofthis presentation. And I'm here to
tell you, number one, I wasn'treally freaking out. If somebody
(46:32):
had said, oh, by the way,you're doing a presentation tomorrow
and you find out like a half aday beforehand, I would have been
freaking out. But because ofmy background, number one, I was
a teacher for many years inthe corporate world. And because
I've been making content on aweekly basis for 20 years now as
a podcaster, that I was like,okay, what's the outline? How many
(46:57):
minutes do we get? 20 minutes.Great. And I timed it, did this and
that, threw in a couplethings, came up with the grocery
store analogy. I was like,that's not bad. I like that. Okay.
And off we go. And so one ofthe benefits of podcasting, that
isn't money, that isn'tgrowing your network, that isn't
all the other things is justthe fact that you get pretty good
(47:17):
at making content or you. Youdo not freak out in the face of,
hey, guess what, you got to dosomething quickly and it's going
to happen now. I've had to dothat a couple times where people
are like, oh, you're speakingin 15 minutes. I'm like, on what?
And I don't freak out because15 minutes is nothing when you're
used to making content. So youcan always go to Toastmasters. Right?
(47:43):
That's a great way to practiceon your speaking. And if you're new
to it, I would recommend thatI went to a meeting once. I was like,
oh, this is pretty cool. Butagain, being that I'd been teaching
for 10 years, I was like,maybe not really for me, but that
doesn't mean I can't improve.I'm always open for criticism and
comments because I am of themindset that there's always room
(48:04):
for constant improvement. Butthat is a benefit, and that's the
story behind that. So what youjust heard was something that I put
together based on Brennan'sconcept. And his concept was if you
look at the data, you can findout what works so you can do more
of that, which will grow youraudience. And so that's what that
(48:27):
presentation was based on.Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, it is on its
way. I mentioned this monthsago. I interviewed Steve Stewart
about running your podcast asa business and I've hit a bunch of
snags and I think now thatEaster is over, hope you had a great
Easter, that I can kind of getback to normal and pound that episode
(48:50):
out. I'm always open to ideas.So if you're like, Dave, I wish you
would talk about this, I wouldlove to hear it. I really am. And
if you're like, ah, youprobably already talked about it.
Nah, I'd still like to hear itbecause sometimes I can come up with
a different angle than thelast time I talked about it. So keep
that in mind. You can alwaysgo out to schoolofpodcasting.com,
(49:10):
you'll see there's a contactoption there, along with the ability
to sign up and take advantageof that 30 day money back guarantee,
where if you don't like itwithin 30 days, yeah, I'll give you
your money back. And it's notthat much money because you use the
coupon code listnr when yousign up for either a monthly or yearly
(49:31):
subscription. I'm DaveJackson. I help podcasters. It's
what I do. And I can't wait tosee what we're going to do together.
Until next week. Take care.God bless. Class is dismissed.
Today on episode number 980 ofthe school of Podcasting. Mary, Mary,
your podcast is scary. How dowe make it grow? With stats and views
and maybe a new attitude. Hangon, I'll tell you what to do. The
School of Podcasting with DaveJackson. Podcasting since 2005, I
(02:21):
am your award winning hall offame podcast coach, Dave Jackson.
Thanking you so much fortuning in. If you're new to the show,
this is why I help you plan,launch and grow your podcast. My
website is school ofpodcasting.com use the coupon code
listener when you sign up foreither a monthly or yearly subscription.
(02:42):
And so today, what we'retalking about is, and this is it
in a nutshell, if you get theright data, you can figure out what
you're doing right. And whenyou know what you're doing right,
you can do more of that. Thankyou. Good night. It's been nice.
Thank you. But this was apresentation I did at Podcast Movement
(03:05):
Evolutions, and there's astory behind this that I will share
at the end. But the firstthing you have to figure out is start
with the end in mind. This isfrom the book 7 Habits of Highly
Effective People. And it makesa ton of sense. This. If you are
a person that is logicallyoriented. I am. I mean, not that
(03:28):
I'm like, not, you know,emotional, but like, if you can show
me exactly how something worksand why it works, yeah, you'll have
me all day. And so, forexample, if I want to get sponsors
for my show, they're going towant to know who is listening, how
old they are, how much moneythey make, if they're married, do
(03:50):
they have kids, etc. Etc. Soif I am looking for sponsors, I need
to somehow get that data. Doyou get that information from Apple?
Nope. Do you get it fromSpotify? A little bit. I don't think
they give you their age, butthey do give you their. No, they
do give you an age range.Right. So start with the end of my
(04:14):
what do you need? And thenlet's say I am looking for sponsorships.
Now, for the record, rememberthat if you want one of the big,
big, big, big sponsors, youknow, the mattress people, the better
help to the world that 90% ofyou do not have enough downloads.
A lot of times people spendthat, you know, 10% of podcasters
(04:35):
can get a big spot, yet 90% ofyou don't. Not to be a big downer,
but I like to, I don't know,reveal reality sometimes to people.
So you're Saying, I got achance. So keep that in mind. It
doesn't mean you can't have asponsor. Means you can't have a big,
big, big, big sponsor,probably, but show them the data.
(04:56):
Hey, here's. Here's who Ihave. Here's what I want. And that's
just for sponsors. So keepthat in mind, whatever you're trying
to do. If you're trying to getpeople on your show, then make a
page that shows all theprevious guests. And my, you know,
podpage does thisautomatically. And I work for them.
(05:20):
I'm the head of podcastingover at PodPage. It's a great way
to make a website withouthaving to learn how to code. So all
sorts of data can be used todo things. But data or data, take
your pick, is your superpower.It is what you can use to figure
out what's working and what'snot. Now, here's the thing. Here
(05:44):
are a couple ways you can getdata. Data, take your pick. Number
one, Apple Podcast Connect itis. And I'll have links to all these
out in the show notes. So ifyou're like, wait, I can't remember
all these. And I am kind ofgiving you a list, and anytime you
give somebody a list, thatlist should be in your show notes.
So today this is episodenumber 980, which means I should
(06:08):
start thinking about what todo with episode 1000. But at any
rate, the links will be outthere for that. And so here they
are, podcasts with an sconnect.apple.com so here you can
see how far people arelistening. And I will tell you right
now, be careful what you wishfor, because there are times when
(06:29):
I've helped people get inthere, the first time they go, I'm
getting a 37%. Is that good?And I go, I'm an old teacher, where
100, you know, 90 is an A, 80is a B, 70 is a C, 60 is a D, and
anything below 60 is an F, andyou have a 39. And then I watch them
(06:50):
do the math and I go, but thegood news is you can fix that. So
keep that in mind. Podcasters,again with an s.Spotify.com will
show you how far peoplelisten, but it will also show you
their demographics. So how oldthey are. Are they male, female,
other, etc. Etc.Podcasters.Amazon.com is pretty much
(07:15):
exactly like Spotify. Theydon't show you age information, but
they will show you how farpeople listen. If you get enough
people to listen on Amazon,and for most of my shows. I for whatever
reason I know Amazon is hugein India but for my listeners, nobody's
listening on Amazon Music,which is a bummer. I wish Amazon
(07:37):
kind of part of that. I thinkthe problem with Amazon is when you
go to there, the first thingthey do and I mean the minute you
hit that page they're likesign up now for Amazon Music. And
you're like, look, I'm justtrying to figure it out, like how
to log in and stuff. They're alittle aggressive on sign up for
Amazon Music. Another one isanalytics.google.com better known
(08:02):
as Google Analytics. And thisshows you what is happening on your
website because you might findout that hey, there's a really popular
episode that you can see inyour media host. We'll get to that
in a second. And it's notreally showing that popular on my
(08:23):
website. Maybe you have areally horrible title like episode
16, name of show, somethinglike that. But Google Analytics can
show you what is working onyour website. And I have an exercise
you can do with that. I'll betalking about a little later that
I was amazed at how well itworked. If you have your show on
(08:46):
YouTube you can go intoYouTube studio and see again how
far people listen, how farpeople or how people found you what
you had for lunch last Tuesdaywhen it was a full moon. I mean there
are tons of stats in YouTubestudio and then your media host and
most media hosts will give youaccess to your downloads. So you
(09:10):
can see what's the mostpopular. You can see where your audience
is. So how many people in Stanare listening to your show and things
of that nature, which is kindof handy if you plan on going on
tour, you can say because someof them you'll actually see the cities.
And so if you plan on doing alive tour or if you just want to
(09:31):
drive around the country andRV and talk to your people like my
buddy Glenn the geek did manymoons ago with Horse Radio Network.
You know, why not go wherepeople are? That would make sense.
And then the last one and I donot understand why every single one
of you is not doing this. Andthat is an audience survey. Whether
(09:53):
this via Google forms. Again,it's building the pod page tally.
So you know, gee, my showisn't growing. Wouldn't step number
one be ask the people that areconsuming it? That that doesn't seem
like that far of a stretch tolike how can we make this better?
(10:14):
You know, if you were arestaurant and you kept giving people
bread and nobody ate itWouldn't the first thing you do go,
hey, how come you're noteating the bread? And they'd go,
oh, there's no salt in it. Oh,we can fix that. And I realize the
biggest reason I think, isthere are two reasons why I think
(10:35):
people don't do audiencesurveys. Number one, you are deathly
afraid that if you ask forfeedback, you will get zero. And
that's a thing that happens.But that in itself is feedback. When
you think about it, that'sfeedback. It's not the feedback we
want. But if you're like, Iasked for people to fill it out,
(10:55):
and I waited two months, and Istill had zero responses. Well, I
would say we need to changesomething with the show, because
we can't even get one personto tell you, hey, this isn't very
good, or, hey, I really,really love this show, but those
are the different ways rightnow that you can get feedback. Now,
there is one other one, andthat's going where your audience
(11:18):
is. So, for me, because I do apodcast about podcasting, I go to
podcast events, andoccasionally I will bump into somebody
who said, hey, I listened toyour show. And I go, oh, thank you
so much. And then I'd givethem a quick survey. What do you
like about it? What do youwish I would change? And the key
to that is to shut up. Like,so, what do you like about it? And
(11:40):
then shut up. And they willtell you, and then go, is there anything
you wish I would change? Andthey'll go, no, I love the whole
thing. And then you. You justembrace the awkward silence and hope
that they'll give yousomething. But those are all the
different places. Now, I knowyou're like, dave, that is eight
different places to go to getthe information. Ugh. It's so much
(12:02):
work. I have to click a mouse.Dave, you want me to click a mouse
and click a mouse again. Areyou kidding me? I get it. Do you
eat? I eat food. You know, thefood stuff. Do you do that? I do
that. And. And it is soannoying when you go into a grocery
store and you've got yourlist. I need bread. I need ice cream.
(12:26):
I need hamburger. I need, youknow, whatever. Potato chips, eggs,
et cetera. And it is soannoying that they are not all in
the same aisle. Have you everbeen there? You're like, wait a minute.
I got to go to the dairy aisleto get eggs, and then I got to walk
all the way over here to getgreen beans. Ugh. And yet we do it.
(12:47):
Why? Because we want to eat.Eating helps us live. If we don't
eat, we tend to die. Most ofus, I believe. So this is data that
can help you live, that canhelp you wait, not waste your time,
help you figure out what'sworking. You just have to go to a
few places to do it. And Iknow that involves clicking on a
mouse, or you could just wasteyour time. Take your pick. So think
(13:13):
about this. You want to make agood first impression on your website
and you can do things likefeature episodes on your front page.
Why? Why would you do that?Because you want to make a good first
impression. Why not go intoyour media host? I like Captivate,
(13:34):
Buzzsprout, blueberry, Libsyn.Those are those. I know you're like,
but what about Spotify? Yeah,not my favorite at all, free media
hosts. But you can go in andfind out what really worked. And
why not put those on the frontpage? Because now think about it.
Somebody finds your show andyou have a little featured episode
section and they click on itlike, oh, this is really good. And
(13:57):
how do you know it's reallygood? Because a lot of people clicked
on it. And again, this iswhere maybe you go into Apple and.
And see what has the highestcompletion rate. The idea is this
is the first impression andyou want it to be good. And look,
I know right now I want thisto be the best episode ever, but
sometimes your latest episodeis not your best episode ever. How
(14:18):
do you know? Go into theseplaces and find out what's the best
stuff. And if you want to havea featured section, base it on what
you know works and put that upfront. Now there are a couple different
places you can see stats, andwe're going to talk about Spotify.
I know I just said to Spotify.I don't mind them where, you know,
(14:43):
if you want to listen to me onSpotify, I just want to host my show
there. They're run by themusic business and they're kind of
a bunch of weasels and theylike to do things that benefit Spotify,
which makes sense because it'sa business. But anyway, so first
of all, we're going to talkabout show stats. There are. There's
show information and there'sepisode information. So right now
(15:04):
we're talking about your showand you can go into Spotify's dashboard
and you can see how manypeople have downloaded and then they
have a bunch of weird words.And this is where John Spurlock,
who's a big giant nerd, anddoes Opie 3 stats, which is free.
(15:26):
And he's kind of saying, hey,can we all get on the same page?
Kind of a podcasting 2.0thing, so that we could all kind
of get all this information inone place. John's a great guy. I
met him briefly at Evolutionsand very tall. And I was like, okay.
And it's a great idea. He'sgot a long road to get this to work,
(15:48):
but I like it because he'sapproaching it from an app standpoint.
Because a lot of times the apppeople kind of get lost in the shuffle
here. But when you look atyour stats, you'll see one stat called
Starts. Well, as you mightimagine, that's how many times somebody
pressed play. And then you seestreams, and you're like, wait, what's
(16:10):
the difference between a startand a stream? A stream is how many
times somebody listened to 60seconds or more in Spotify. So, for
instance, I'm looking at ascreen and this is where we go with
numbers in an audio podcast.But I had 121,000 streams, but 259,000
(16:30):
starts. So that means a bunchof people click start, but not all
of them made it to the 62ndmark. You also have a listener stat.
That is how many actualpeople. So you could have a number
of people. And then some ofthem click start more than once,
obviously. And then some ofthem made it to 60 seconds, and then
(16:53):
followers is the number wereally want. We really want followers.
Now, in Spotify, you can seehow many people are male, how many
people are female, how manypeople are really confused, not sure.
Not there's one. Just. I don'tknow. So whatever it is. And then
you can go in and see theirage groups. And so it's 0 to 17,
(17:14):
18 to 22, 25 to 27. I'm sorry,23 to 27. Apparently, Dave needs
new glasses, et cetera, etcetera. So you get that. And that's
for the show. All of yourepisodes put together. And then in
Spotify, they have a coolthing. We just did an episode of
(17:34):
Ask the Podcast Coach, talkingabout, should you have episodic artwork?
And I am of the camp. Yeah.Because it's, I don't know, a minute
and a half to make. Makeyourself a quick little template
that has your logo and yourcolors, and you go in and you add
a new background, you changethe title and you're done. And it
(17:54):
just, you know, it kind ofcatches your eye in a way. And so
in Spotify, and that's theonly place you can get this you can
see how many people yourpodcast was put in front of. So on
the screen that I'm looking atright Now, I had 131 people in 30
days. Then how many peopleshowed intent? That means they clicked
(18:16):
on it. And that in this casewas 19. And then how many people
actually clicked on play was14, which is again sometimes dismal
because you're like, wait,this got in front of 131 people and
only 14 people clicked on it.Yes, that's exactly what that means.
And that's where you go, maybeit's the title of your episode, maybe
(18:40):
it's the description of yourepisode, maybe it's the artwork,
but it's something that youcan measure, which means it can be
something that can beimproved. You just have to watch
it. But you have to be carefulwith that because if you spend all
day looking at your stats andnot looking at your audience, although
in a way you are looking atyour audience, you can really get
(19:01):
lost in the numbers. So becareful with that. And then in Spotify,
you can see, where did peoplefind your content? Was it on the
Spotify home? In my case, itwas way more in Spotify Search. That's
where titles come into playagain. And nobody's searching for
episode 16 and then theSpotify library and then other Spotify
(19:23):
features. And so I saw in minewhere I had a big old Spike on March
18, and I looked at the titleof the episode and I was talking
about video shorts versusvideo longs on Ask the Podcast Coach,
and that caused a bit of aspike. So you can see what's working.
(19:43):
So you can do more of that.That's all in the show stats. We're
not talking episodes yet. Youcan then click into an episode and
you get the same exact stuff.How many people started it, how many
people went 60 seconds, howmany unique listeners you had. And
again, be careful because youcan see how far people listen. Now,
(20:06):
when you look at these kind ofgraphs, it looks like a big giant
hill. And at the beginning ofit, people are just diving off left
and right, so it looks likeNiagara Falls, this huge just slope.
And that's because this iswhere seeing how many followers you
have, your followers are goingto skip your intro because they've
(20:26):
heard me a million times say,podcasting since 2005, I'm your award
winning, blah, blah, blah. Sothey skip that. And so that's kind
of normal. But you will seehow far people listen. And again,
I'm an old teacher. I amalmost happy with 70%, because that's
a C. I'm really shooting for80s and 90s. The other thing you
(20:52):
want to do, and I'm justthrowing this in as bonus, kind of
because we're talking aboutSpotify, but this also applies to
all the other apps, and thatis, Please, for the love of God,
quit saying find me whereveryou find your podcast. This week
on Ask the Podcast Coach, Idid this live by accident, but it
proves that, that when yousearch for a podcast in Spotify,
(21:17):
Apple's a little better, butthere this still happens. And I searched
for the future of podcastingthat show. So I went to Spotify,
and call me crazy, I typed infuture of podcasting, and you know
what came up? Nothing. A bunchof stuff that wasn't future of podcasting.
And I was like, ugh. So ifyou're, you know, there might be
(21:38):
somebody in, you know, mylistening realm, and I said, hey,
find me wherever you find yourpodcast. They type in future of podcasting
nothing. And then they. Well,that's. Maybe I do that. No, you
know, and guess what? They'vealready left. And you go, but maybe
they tried again. No, theydidn't. They left. They left because
there was too much friction.And so I went back because it was
(22:02):
my show. I'm like, what theheck? And I typed in the future of
podcasting, and it came up. Soplease quit saying find me wherever
you find your podcast andinstead make a page on your website.
I would make it slash follow,because, you know, that's what the
kids call it and have a linkto Apple and Spotify. And I heart
(22:26):
if you want to look cool.Although I don't get much traffic
over there. Probably overcast.And Pocket Cast. Pocket Cast right
now is my favorite app. I lovethat. If I have time, I'll tell you
about that. If not, we'll talkabout that in the future. But I'm
just here to tell you. Andwhile we're at it, I heard somebody
say this today, and so I'mjust going to let you know. Ratings
and reviews do not help youget found in Apple. They are social
(22:49):
proof, but they do not helpyou up the charts. Per Apple. Per
Apple. Apple said that, notDave Jackson. I'm just repeating
it. Ratings and reviews do nothelp you move up the chart. So please
quit saying that. Anonymouspodcast guru. I don't know, man.
I can't take it anymore. Someother things you can do if you need
(23:09):
your link, because I just saidit's hard to find one. Well, when
you find it, you can go intothese places and get the link to
your show. And again, notmaking this a giant pod page commercial,
but you'll understand why thisis in here. You can basically go
into pod page under settingsand go to podcast player links and
copy and paste the link inthere and then we make a slash follow
(23:30):
page for you. All right.Podcast connect.apple.com as I've
mentioned again, they do makesome really cool marketing stuff
for you. They make a QR codeso if you want to promote your stuff
on that. But they, they giveyou a bunch of analytics. So followers
again, are those people that.You guessed it. I know. Shocking.
(23:52):
Follow your show A listener isthe total number of people that listen
to your show. Engagedlisteners. Now this is a stat that
I want to watch. This ispeople who have listened to at least
40% of your episode or atleast 20 minutes, whichever one comes
first. So yeah, that's thepeople we want. Plays is the total
(24:13):
number of times people pressplay on your episode. So if you have
a listener and it takes themthree times to get through your episode
because they had to go to thedentist, that's one listener, three
plays. Then they show you yourtop countries again, I guess if you
want to go on tour and the topcities. So keep that in mind. You
(24:35):
have followers, Listeners,engaged listeners and plays. Now
you can also see how, how manypeople are following your show. Not
so much how many, but thepercentage. It's 86% in the slide
I'm looking at and that's nottoo shabby. Again, that's a B. It's
almost an A. I want that 90%.So if you're listening to this in
(24:57):
Apple podcasts, hey, go up andclick on the plus, sign the plus
button and take a peek atthat. But you can go in. And again,
Apple likes things verypretty. So they make great looking
graphs. So you can say, hey,show me a graph over this month and
show me how my followers went.Is it going up or is it going down?
(25:19):
You can go in as well and dothat for listeners. You can really
dig into your stats and seewhat's going on. But you can also.
So that's for the show. Again.Remember, there is show data and
then there's episode data. Andyou can go into the episodes and
I can see where just on thefront page of this, I have a lot
(25:40):
of 70s, 72, 75, 79. I do have169, that's a D. But I also have
a couple 88s. I got a 92, Igot a 77. I'll take that. And then
you can also go in. And ifyou're an Excel nerd, I'm an Excel
nerd. I taught Microsoft Excelfor a decade. And if you are a person
(26:01):
that wants to really go in andcrunch the numbers, you can download
that. And so I can see howmany people were engaged. And again,
your mileage may vary. Becareful because it might kind of
kick you where it counts. Butwhat I love is you can go into a
graph and again, just like inSpotify, it shows you how far people
(26:21):
listened. And what'sinteresting is, again, you're gonna
have a huge drop off at thebeginning from all your followers.
And you can also see theminute you say, hey, thanks so much
for tuning in, people aregone. Like, you don't even get a
chance. That's why if you everwonder why I do my advertising for
me in the middle of the show,why do I do that? Dave, you interrupted
(26:44):
an interview to talk aboutyou. Ugh. Well, I know I appre. I
know it's not the best place.I have been waiting till the interview
was over as of recent, butit's usually around the 20 minute
mark. Why? Because I feel likeit. That's really the science behind
it. Dave, why did you pick themiddle of the show? I felt like it.
It's my show, but I always tryto tease up an ad. So I'll be like,
(27:08):
hey, in a minute I'm going totell you how to turn dog poop into
gold right after this. Andthen I play the ad. And I'm hoping
you will stick around to hearthat. And thank you, Steve Martin.
And you can go in. I can seein this graph where I ran my ad because
there's a little dip wherethose people who don't have the phone
in their pocket go, hold on.And they hit the old 62nd skip. So
(27:31):
I can see that and you can seehow much of your audience is doing
that. So again, what does thismean? Well, if that number was drastic,
now on mine, it's not. It's.It's, you know, it's. It's down a
little bit, but they also comeright back up. That's the beauty
of it. But if I had a big oldpeople just skipping everything,
I would then look at, hmm,maybe I need to work on how I'm delivering
(27:53):
ads. Or maybe my ads are, Idon't know, zero relevant to my audience
and they're all like, I don'tdo this. And they're skipping. So
these are things you can dowith that. You can also go into Apple
Podcasts and see the median.Yay. Fun with math. That's the midpoint.
(28:13):
That means 50% of items getmore than this and 50% get less.
The average is. You guessedit. Yeah. Huh. The average. And then
you can see your top episode.So I can go into Apple Podcasts and
say, show me the median. Andthen show me this episode. This episode
and this one. And ah, yeah,that one too. And then you can see
(28:34):
how do you measure up to that50% mark? And again, not always a
happy time to look at thosekind of stats, but that's why we're
looking at them. It's not thatwe like rejoice in bad numbers, but
it is a thing to go, allright, I've got some work to do.
(28:56):
And then you can come backlater and look at these. If you compare
it to your top episode, thatis a bit of a kick in the pants,
but you want to see how itcompares. Again, the best way to
find out how you're doing isto ask your audience. So keep that
in mind. This one reallyhurts. If you're an Apple podcast
(29:18):
and you see the information.Not enough data or data. Take your
pick. Message and analytics.Not enough data Message in analytics,
your show has not met the datathreshold for the time frame specified.
At least five unique listenersmust play content for your show within
the selected time frame foranalytics metrics you selected. Which
(29:41):
means you don't even have fivepeople listening to this. Now this
is one of the things you wantto do when you go into these different
places to look at stats,there's usually a little dropdown
where you can pick last sevendays, last 30 days, last 90 days.
And so in some cases, if it'snot five listeners, if you're a brand
new show, that might be normalfor seven days, but it's when you
(30:03):
go all time, like show me alltime stats and you still get the
not enough data. That hurts.I'm not going to lie. Like, I haven't
really had five listeners, butyou know, depending on where you're
at now when we look at Amazon,it is. I'm not going to repeat it.
It's the same stuff I justsaid plays listeners, people that
(30:23):
listen longer than 60 seconds.But here's some things. If you're
on Amazon Music and youraudience is older and they like the
woman in the tube who I willrefer to as Lexi, so we don't trigger
yours, you can say thingslike, Lexi, play the podcast and
then give the Title. Now, thatdoes not always work. There are many
(30:46):
times when I ask Lexi to playthe school of podcasting, and she
will play the school ofnursing. And I'm like, where did
I say nursing? You can alsonavigate between episodes. You can
say, lexi, play the nextepisode, play the latest episode.
All sorts of fun. Lexi, fastforward, rewind. It's pretty handy.
(31:06):
Keep that in mind if you're onAmazon Music. They will do that on
Amazon Music. Now, one of thethings I love about pocketcast is
you can install the PocketCast app on your device from Amazon
and say, hey, Lexi, open. Oh,I almost said it. Pocket Cast. And
she will say, would you liketo continue listening to the latest
(31:27):
episode? Whichever one isthere. And it's. It's beautiful.
But that is something. Ifyou're not on Amazon Music, it's
Amazon wouldn't hurt. Now, thenext place that we've talked about,
different places you can getstats, is Google Analytics. And here's
the beauty of GoogleAnalytics. It is free. Absolutely
(31:47):
free. You copy and paste a bitof code onto your website. You do
have a website, right? I hadsome people this week I was working
with, and I was like, oh, if Iwant to send people to your stuff,
like, what's your website? Andtheir answer was, I don't have one.
And I'm like, what? Andthey're like, yep, don't have one.
And I'm like, but like, how doyou. And they're like, oh, we go
(32:10):
by word of mouth. We do a lotof business just by referrals. And
I'm like, well, that's great.But just think how much more you
would have if you had awebsite. You. You got to be kidding
me. What year is it? And Idon't mean a link in bio link tree.
No, but anyway, GoogleAnalytics, you've heard of them,
Google, you can go in and I'mhere to tell you, you can see some
(32:33):
insane stuff. And I can see.Here's the one. You guys ready? This
is something you can do today.And I'm here to tell you it works
because I thought, really? Andthen I did it and it was like, oh,
now it's not again, bazillionsof people. But if you're used to
getting zero people to yournewsletter, do this. You ready? It's
(32:53):
easy. Go into GoogleAnalytics. Now, hopefully you've
had it on your website thiswhole time. If not, put it on your
website today. You're lookingat, I don't know, 20 minutes because
you're learning it, but itreally is just copy and paste. And
now Google will startstanding, sending you stuff, and
you can go in and say, hey,show me the top pages on my website.
(33:17):
And you can even say, give methe top 10. And so my one of my top
ones is still me. Bashinganchor. Before it was Spotify for
podcasters because it'shorrible, in my opinion. And then
I had other things about howto take phone calls on a podcast
and blah, blah, blah, whateveryour list is, find them and make
(33:38):
a lead magnet. Now, a leadmagnet is something that is quick,
it's short, it's to the point,and it solves a problem. And so I
have one about how to takephone calls on a podcast, which basically
says, what are you, PhilDonahue, who takes phone calls on
a podcast? Use these othertools. Because if you actually want
to take phone calls on apodcast, it's a little more complicated.
(34:01):
But I made lead magnets,little ones. And, and the one, I
think it was that one, the.The one about taking phone calls
on a podcast. But I justremember thinking, I can't come up
with a lead magnet for this. Idon't understand what problem I'm
solving. And so I just simplyput, would you like a PDF of this
post? Click here and downloadthe PDF today. Now, you know that
(34:25):
I know that you know that Iknow you could simply bookmark that
page and come back to itanytime you want. But instead I had
a handful of people that said,yeah, I'll take the PDF. And I'm
like, okay, so that's an easyone with Google Analytics is to see
what's working on the website.What are you can also see in Google's
(34:47):
dashboard, not in analytics,but the actual Webmaster dashboard.
So that would be source numbernine. You can see what people are
searching for to find you soyou can do more of that. And so Google
Analytics can be really handyin terms of what is working on the
web so that you get anotherdata set to go. Huh, I didn't realize
(35:09):
that I have a really popularpage on blog talk radio that still
gets traffic. And blog talkradio has been dead for the better
part of six months, maybelonger. But you get these pages and
it can help see what's doing.And I'm here to tell you, do that.
Find your top five then onGoogle Analytics and make sure that
(35:32):
you have a lead magnet onthat. Why? Because you're playing
in traffic. I know mom saiddon't play in traffic. I'm here to
tell you, no, play in traffic.Make a lead magnet for that episode.
And you will get more peopleon your email list than you did before
you did that. Guarantee it. Iwas really surprised when I did that.
So find your pages and dothat. Now. Another thing you can
(35:55):
do with Google Analytics, andI'll put a link to this is I did
an episode a while ago onUtms. This was way back on episode
number 896, back in the day.And URL stands for Urchin Tracking
Module. Utm. Excuse me. URL isyour website and you can easily make
(36:22):
these. It's a piece of cake.And I'll put a link to the UTM maker
from Google. It is ugly, it isgray, but you basically can go in
and put in the website thatyou're sending people to. They ask
for a campaign. So that couldbe really anything you want. That
(36:46):
one is optional. But they havea campaign source. So this could
be like newsletter, website,whatever. And so a lot of times I
will put podcast, then an askfor the medium, and I will say, you
know, there are all sorts ofdifferent ways you could do this.
I could put podcast there. Itis a little confusing. I will not
lie there. I'm like, hmm, whatdo I put there? And I kind of go,
(37:09):
take two minutes and figureout how you're going to fill these
out and make a note and thenjust be consistent. So maybe the
campaign source is the episodenumber and the medium is podcast.
And then the campaign name,and then you're like, oh, wait, is
the campaign name the samething as the campaign source? And
that's where I always get alittle confused. And so I have a
(37:32):
yellow sticky note that I willmake and put on my computer so I
can fill these outconsistently. That way I can see
where my traffic is comingfrom. The old joke is 50% of my marketing
works. I just can't tell which50%. And this will help you see,
this is where I did episodes abit ago about how my newsletter is
(37:57):
driving more traffic thansocial media. A lot more. And how
do I know that? Because Istarted using these. And the whole
point again is to find outwhat's working so you can do more
of that. So do I spend moretime on my newsletter now than I
do on my social media? Youbet. And when I did my audience survey,
(38:19):
I spend a lot of time onFacebook and X because I'm old. And
it turns out a lot of myaudience is on LinkedIn and I, I
am trying to get intoLinkedIn. Every time I log into LinkedIn,
somebody wants to shoot me tothe top of Apple charts, sign here.
And I'm like, ugh, it's justnot a great experience on me. But
(38:42):
I realize that's where myaudience is. And how do you grow
your audience, figuring outwho your audience is, finding out
where they are and you gothere and make friends and then you
tell them about your show. Andso I was able to see where I got
more traffic from Substackright now I have a newsletter on
that. I got 10 people fromChat GPT. I had 10 people came to
(39:06):
my website from my signature.So there's something you can do right
now that again, I'm 10 isbetter than a poke in the eye. Most
things are. But put a link toyour website in your email signature
because somebody will readthis and even if they skip by what
you said, they see that linkat the bottom, they will click on
(39:27):
it. And if you want to learnmore about Google Analytics, they
have an Analytics Academy. Soif you just Google the phrase Google
Analytics Academy, it's a freecourse and you can take that. So
keep that in mind. And I'vekind of been hinting at the last
one. And again, I will justbeat this dog, which is a very weird
(39:51):
saying, or beat the horse orwhatever. I'm just here to tell you,
do an audience survey. If youdon't know how to do an audience
survey, I strongly urge you toread the book the Audience is Listening
by Tom Webster. It is anamazing book. The tagline A little
(40:15):
guide to building a bigpodcast. And I'll have links to that
out in the show notes. And ifyou have PodPage, you will see where
the built in audience surveyin PodPage with Tom Webster's approval
is using many of the questionsin that book. But you do have to
be aware of the mom test,right There is a book by Rob Fitzpatrick
(40:38):
and I just heard about thisbook and it talks about how even
when you ask your audience,this is where I kind of like it to,
where at the very end they canremain anonymous because if they've
really just pooped all overyour show, they may not want you
to know it came from thembecause you know it was your cousin
Ernie. But you can leave themanonymous or you can have them if
(41:02):
they want to optionally signin. And there are people like mom
that will say, oh, this isamazing, it's awesome. And they're
saying that to your face.Whereas if you let them be anonymous,
maybe they'll be a little morehonest. And that gives you again
the opportunity to better yourshow when your show is better. Then
(41:28):
you get more downloads, you'llhave more. You're. You're more likely.
I'll give you an example Ihad, and he's such a nice man. But
I went to a church and thepastor was old. There's no other
way to say that. And it'sgoing to happen to me someday when
(41:49):
I'm behind the mic and I'm notmaking any sense, because, you know,
there's a hole in the marblebag. It's going to happen to all
of us. And consequently, youknow, when you go to a church, the
message part of the service isa good 20 to 30% of your service.
And if that's awful, thelikelihood of the people attending
(42:12):
that service saying, you needto come here. Our pastor, he's amazing,
is pretty low. And so wereplaced him and with his kind of
blessing and attendance is upbecause the value delivered at that
church is more than it used tobe. And people are more likely to
(42:36):
recommend something that isgood. And that doesn't mean your
show is awful, but you do needto be better than average, maybe
if you really want people tostand out. My favorite Beatle, Paul
McCartney, said, if you wantto be remarkable or no, if you want
to be memorable, you have towrite songs that are easy to remember,
(43:02):
because back then theycouldn't just record it into their
phone. So when he and JohnLennon were writing songs for the
Beatles, the way theyremembered them was writing songs
that were memorable. And so ifyou want people to tell their friends
about the show, you know, youhave to make things that are remarkable,
meaning your friends will makeremarks about your show. And that's
(43:26):
not as easy as it sounds. Sowe went over all these sources. We
saw what they can give you,right? So your media host can give
you downloads and see what'spopular there and where it's coming
from. Your Apple and Spotifycan show you how many followers you
have and how far peoplelisten. Your Google Analytics can
(43:50):
show you what's working onyour website because that may not
always be in tune with what'sgoing on with your media hosts and
Apple Podcasts. YouTube Studiocan show you how far people view.
And keep in mind, you got togo review what is a view on YouTube.
I know YouTube shorts. If I dothis, I'm going to tap on the mic.
(44:11):
You ready for this? If I dothis, that long counts as a view.
On a YouTube short, there isno small like you. Like zero is a
view. If somebody presses thebutton on YouTube for. For a millisecond,
it counts as a view, which Ithink is kind of silly. So you have
to be careful with that,because there are times when people
like, man, I got a hundredthousand views on my YouTube short.
(44:34):
Yeah, that's. You really wantto go over. And from what I understand
on YouTube, a completionthat's good is 50%. Now, does that
mean I feel good when I get50%? No. Why? Because I am Dave Jackson.
I want 90s, I want 80s, 70s.I'm like, but 53 to me is an F. And
(45:00):
I said, there was a storybehind this presentation. And I'm
going to tell you the behindthe scenes of how this came about
right after this. Yeah, yeah,yeah. So that presentation was supposed
to be delivered by the one andonly Brennan Mulligan, the founder
and lead developer at PodPage.And I was there working the PodPage
(45:23):
booth, and he called me abouttwo days before the day that presentation
was. He's like, hey, my kidsare sick and I may not be able to
leave because leaving twochildren, very, very young children
sick with your spouse is notgoing to go over well with that spouse.
(45:45):
I was like, okay. He's like,so we might need a plan B. He called
me the next day and said, yep,we're going with plan B because now
my wife is sick. And I said,that's great. Just send me the slides.
And he had not finished themyet. And I said, can you send me
an outline and just do yourpresentation into, like, a video,
(46:10):
like a loom video or a televideo? And he did that. And I grabbed
an old presentation I had withsome stats, Frankensteined it together,
and there it was. And I hadpeople, which was nice. Gave me some
great feedback at the end ofthis presentation. And I'm here to
tell you, number one, I wasn'treally freaking out. If somebody
(46:32):
had said, oh, by the way,you're doing a presentation tomorrow
and you find out like a half aday beforehand, I would have been
freaking out. But because ofmy background, number one, I was
a teacher for many years inthe corporate world. And because
I've been making content on aweekly basis for 20 years now as
a podcaster, that I was like,okay, what's the outline? How many
(46:57):
minutes do we get? 20 minutes.Great. And I timed it, did this and
that, threw in a couplethings, came up with the grocery
store analogy. I was like,that's not bad. I like that. Okay.
And off we go. And so one ofthe benefits of podcasting, that
isn't money, that isn'tgrowing your network, that isn't
all the other things is justthe fact that you get pretty good
(47:17):
at making content or you. Youdo not freak out in the face of,
hey, guess what, you got to dosomething quickly and it's going
to happen now. I've had to dothat a couple times where people
are like, oh, you're speakingin 15 minutes. I'm like, on what?
And I don't freak out because15 minutes is nothing when you're
used to making content. So youcan always go to Toastmasters. Right?
(47:43):
That's a great way to practiceon your speaking. And if you're new
to it, I would recommend thatI went to a meeting once. I was like,
oh, this is pretty cool. Butagain, being that I'd been teaching
for 10 years, I was like,maybe not really for me, but that
doesn't mean I can't improve.I'm always open for criticism and
comments because I am of themindset that there's always room
(48:04):
for constant improvement. Butthat is a benefit, and that's the
story behind that. So what youjust heard was something that I put
together based on Brennan'sconcept. And his concept was if you
look at the data, you can findout what works so you can do more
of that, which will grow youraudience. And so that's what that
(48:27):
presentation was based on.Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hey, it is on its
way. I mentioned this monthsago. I interviewed Steve Stewart
about running your podcast asa business and I've hit a bunch of
snags and I think now thatEaster is over, hope you had a great
Easter, that I can kind of getback to normal and pound that episode
(48:50):
out. I'm always open to ideas.So if you're like, Dave, I wish you
would talk about this, I wouldlove to hear it. I really am. And
if you're like, ah, youprobably already talked about it.
Nah, I'd still like to hear itbecause sometimes I can come up with
a different angle than thelast time I talked about it. So keep
that in mind. You can alwaysgo out to schoolofpodcasting.com,
(49:10):
you'll see there's a contactoption there, along with the ability
to sign up and take advantageof that 30 day money back guarantee,
where if you don't like itwithin 30 days, yeah, I'll give you
your money back. And it's notthat much money because you use the
coupon code listnr when yousign up for either a monthly or yearly
(49:31):
subscription. I'm DaveJackson. I help podcasters. It's
what I do. And I can't wait tosee what we're going to do together.
Until next week. Take care.God bless. Class is dismissed.
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