109. Reclaiming the Hearts of Your Children

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
you cannot parent a child whose heart you
do not have.
I heard that statement from Dr Gordon
Neufeld shortly after a few months after we
started homeschooling.
The question I have for you is do you have
the heart of your child or teenager or have
you lost their hearts?
And if you've lost it, can you get it back?

(00:24):
The answer is yes, and in today's episode,
we're going to talk about attachment.
We're going to talk about peer versus
parent orientation, what those things are,
and what you can do to keep their hearts,
and then we're also going to discuss what
to do if you've lost the hearts and minds
of your teenagers.

(00:59):
Okay, as I mentioned, you cannot parent a
child's heart who you do not have.
If you don't have their heart, you can't
parent them.
I first heard that from Dr Gordon Neufeld
when I very first.
I was about a year into homeschooling when
I heard that and it stopped me in my tracks.
Um, dr Gordon Neufeld is one of the world's
foremost in attachment psychology.

(01:19):
Uh, he is a an attachment psychologist and
that's his specialty.
And this, uh is of great import to me
because, as I've mentioned in previous
podcasts, um, I raised two children who are
not my biological children, um, and they
were my step children but I raised them

(01:40):
Biological mom uh left and therefore she
tried to come back a few times, but that's
a whole nother story.
But that caused some severe attachment
issues for my boys, and who wouldn't it
cause issues with?
When a parent leaves, it severs attachment

(02:02):
and it it causes all sorts of problems.
So this subject is very near and dear to my
heart.
More particularly, um, y'all, the whole
reason I started this podcast, like we're
talking, the whole reason I started this
podcast was for this very subject.

(02:26):
Um, when I met with the I I initially I
hired a podcast coach to help me get it
started, cause I didn't know all of the
technical stuff and what to do and I'd been
watching YouTube videos and I couldn't
figure things out.
So I decided to hire somebody.
So I hired somebody to help me figure out,
like, how to do it all, like how do you

(02:48):
create an episode, how do you put it online,
and you know how do you, how do you do it
all?
And one of the very first things that she
asked me and she goes well, what, uh, what
do you want your podcast to be about?
Cause a lot of times people have a hard
time deciding.
And I said I want to do a homeschooling
podcast.
And she said okay, all right.

(03:09):
And I said let me be more specific.
And she said okay, and I said I.
A shift happened with me when we started
homeschooling and I started seeing the
world very differently.
I realized that I didn't have my kids'
hearts, and homeschooling enabled me to
take the hearts and minds of my kids back.

(03:32):
I want to start this podcast so that I can
help people transition out of the school
system into homeschooling.
But more specifically, like the real, like
the deeper issue is that I want parents to
not go through what I went through with my
oldest two kids and that was really hard

(03:55):
and not, you know, sugarcoat it.
We dealt with some big, big stuff with our
oldest two and I said to her I said I, I
want, I want people to be able to take
their hearts, their kids' hearts back.
I want people to be able to be better
parents because they have their kids'

(04:16):
hearts, because otherwise it's really hard.
And and she's like, okay, and I said I want
to help families, help, I want to help them
take the hearts and minds of their children
back.
Now, if you've listened to this podcast,
you listen to the introduction.
That's the whole introduction.

(04:38):
That's that's the whole reason I started
this Y'all.
I've been putting off this episode for two
years because it's daunting.
I've tried calling in professionals and and
yet I still feel like there's so much to
say about this that that here we are.

(04:58):
As I mentioned, attachment is kind of a big
deal to me.
Kind of a big deal to me, and raising my
oldest two was really hard, and we will
talk about this notion of this thing called
peer orientation versus parent orientation
here in a second and what that is, because
if you're new to the homeschooling world,

(05:18):
you've probably never heard that term, or
if you're not familiar with attachment
psychology, you're probably not familiar
with those terms.
I certainly wasn't and I was familiar with
attachment psychology, but this, like this,
is crucially important for parents to know

(05:38):
and to understand.
I'm going to be using the resource that I'm
using is Hold On To your Kids by Dr Gordon
Neufeld, who, as I mentioned, is an
attachment psychologist, and Dr Gabor Mate,
who is a, is a I think he's a generalized
doctor, I'm not entirely sure but and Dr

(06:01):
Gabor Mate but, and Dr Gabor Matej, and
what they've discovered and developed as
far as ideologies behind attachment
psychology and what's going on.
So, before we get into that, I want to
share.
I was watching a YouTube video that came up

(06:23):
and it was um, why there's a problem right
now going on in our society in that Gen
Zers and millennials are cutting off their
parents who they deem are toxic, and it's
becoming like a problem, not like it's one
or two people, but like it's in mass.
A lot of people are cutting off their

(06:45):
families, saying they are toxic because
they have different ideologies than me, and
so I'm listening to this, watching this
YouTube video of these ladies talking, and
it was.
It was a really good interview, um, I
really enjoyed it, but I felt like it was a
bandaid over the real problem, because once
you get to the root of what the real

(07:05):
problem is, then the problem can be solved
and the problem really, as they're
describing you know what's going on and you
know this toxic, you know people deeming
this a toxic culture and their parents are
toxic and we're going to cut them off.
The real problem is is that the parents

(07:27):
have lost the hearts of their kids and that
their children are this thing called peer
oriented, uh, versus parent oriented.
So let me define what that is.
To make things simple, the question that we
ask is where do people go for emotional

(07:51):
nurturing and where they go to emotional
nurturing?
For emotional nurturing lets us know if
they are peer-oriented or parent-oriented.
Now here is the definition by Dr Gabor Mate.
The root of the problem is that children no
longer look to adults for emotional support,

(08:13):
the teaching of values or the modeling of
behavior.
Peer orientation refers to the tendency of
children and youth to look to their peers
for direction, for their sense of right and
wrong, codes of conduct and their very
identity.
Peer orientation undermines family cohesion,
sabotages healthy development and fosters

(08:36):
an aggressive and prematurely sexualized
youth culture.
For parents already challenged by the
demands of our multitasking world and
stretched by stark economic realities, peer
orientation further complicates the task of
child rearing.
Children were never meant by nature to be

(08:57):
in a position where they are today.
Sorry, where they are so dominant in
influencing one another.
Sorry, where they are so dominant in
influencing one another.
This state of affairs may be the norm today,
but it's neither natural nor healthy.
Historically, it's a very new development
due to economic and social influences

(09:25):
prevalent since World War II, resulting in
a deep undermining of adult-child
connections.
Okay, so this is actually this notion that
children are looking to their peers for
guidance, their peers for identity, their
peers for everything, as he mentioned, is a
very new phenomenon, like it might be
typical for us today because we're used to
it, but it's only new in the last four

(09:46):
generations.
So, essentially 80 years and, um, and we
see it, as Dr Maté um pointed out, after
World War II.
So, uh, they argue in the book that there's
an we see an emergence of adolescent
culture which is different than it ever was

(10:08):
before, whereas before the 1940s we didn't
see a separation of adolescents from adults.
Like kids, dressed like their parents, they
acted like their parents, they kind of
naturally moved into adulthood in their
teen years and then suddenly we get this
emergence of this thing called adolescence,

(10:31):
and now they have their own culture, and
now they have their own music, they have
their own way to speak.
Um, they have and and it's not typical
historically.
And it's not typical historically.

(10:51):
And the thing is and I think this was one
of the hard things for me when I started
studying the history of the school system
is part of the intentionality of creating a
school system was to separate children from
their parents.
This is from Elwood Cumberley, stanford's
Dean of Education.
This is in 1909, y'all he says.
Each year the child is coming to belong

(11:15):
more to the state and less and less to the
parent.
So when we look historically at the
emergence of the school system for those of
you that are new to the podcast, I do talk
about this throughout the podcast I've
spent the last five years studying the
history of the United States education

(11:36):
system and the more that I learned, the
more disgusted I become, because it was
never about educating children, not ever,
not ever.
It was always about control.
It was always about separating children
from their parents.
It was always about turning children into
workers that could not think for themselves.
And we see it.

(11:57):
I mean, you just have to go online and
watch TikTok and we have a bunch of morons
Like we.
We have a generation of idiots who cannot
think their own thoughts.
We have universities full of social justice
warriors who are dumb as a box of rocks and
can't tell you where they came from.

(12:17):
You know like it's embarrassing, but when
it was created in 1852, it was only adopted
by by, initially, massachusetts.
The other states actually rejected it and
then over time, it was adopted because it
was pushed um into the other states.
And then we see, we see, and it, and it
doesn't start like it.

(12:38):
It.
It starts as mandatory compulsory education.
Like you are required to send your children
to public school, uh, which is interesting
because the founders of this continue to
homeschool their kids or have tutors come
in.
Um, so then we have, as we're close,
getting closer to the turn of the century,

(13:00):
we have John Dewey, who's a sociologist, a
social scientist, who starts pushing.
We see a pushing of whole language learning
as opposed to phonics.
So they throw out the New England primer,
they start using this whole language
learning model, which then creates all

(13:24):
sorts of problems.
Some people contend it created.
This is what we see, where we see the um
advent of dyslexia.
You know, I, and there's there's arguments
for and against that that that, that is the,
the ultimate creation of it.
Like was, was this again, some people are
like no, no, no, no, it's a brain thing,
right?

(13:45):
I'm not getting into the arguments of
dyslexia because I don't, frankly, know
enough about it, but we do start seeing an
emergence of this thing called dyslexia.
At this point we see all sorts of other
problems coming in.
You have Woodrow Wilson in the early 1900s

(14:06):
and we see the General Education Board,
which is set up by John D Rockefeller.
Again, they're like okay, we have to
separate families so that the children
become dependent on the authority of the
institution, so that when they get into the
workforce they will be submissive to the
authority of the institution rather than

(14:27):
being reliant on the family culture and the
family structure for identity, for growth,
for information, for education.
Like this was all very, very intentional.
They start changing how curriculum's done.
We see a leaving of history and this
emergence of social studies and the social

(14:50):
sciences.
And, by the way, the more you dig, the more
you find out, especially as, at the turn of
the century, they're very steeped into
Marxist ideologies and if you read, know
anything about Marxism.
One of the goals of Marxism is that
children become wards of the state, because

(15:12):
those that control the minds of the
children control the world.
They knew that.
So then we start we still are having a
one-room schoolhouse, like my husband's
grandmother, who is 102 years old and still
thriving, went to a one-room schoolhouse
when she was a child.

(15:32):
She was born in 19,.
No, she's 101, 101 years old, no 102.
Anyway, she in the 20s she went to a
one-room schoolhouse.
In the 20s and 30s they decided to do high
school.
Then we see a pushing the 1930s of high
school, secondary education.
Before then, only some kids went to high

(15:54):
school, others started going into following
their families and their trades and
different things.
But then we start seeing a pushing of high
school by the 1940s High school's in full
swing, seeing a pushing of high school by
the 1940s high schools in full swing, and
that's when we start to see an emergence of
this adolescent culture.
The other thing that was happening during
this time is that the school days were

(16:16):
going longer and longer and longer, which
is funny because even then, compared to now,
we spend far more time, uh, in the
institutionalized school system than they
did back then.
Like per hour, like the number of hours and
days that are spent are far longer now, and
yet our um, our reading literacy rates are

(16:39):
have plummeted compared to what they were
even in 1852.
Like we've literally all we've become a
nation of idiots.
Um, okay, so this is super important
because this is when we start seeing this
thing called peer orientation versus parent
orientation.
We start seeing a separation where, where

(16:59):
children start to rely on their peers as
their compass points versus the natural
order of things, which is their parents and
elders as their natural compass points, and
so I'm going to be using this term
peer-oriented versus parent-oriented.
Here are some signs of peer-oriented

(17:21):
children, and we're going to talk about why
this is problematic here in a second as
well, because it's a big problem and I see
it with.
Not all public school kids are
peer-oriented.
I need to say that Most are, that I've met
in my lifetime Not all of them, but most
are Okay.
So here are signs of peer orientation.

(17:44):
See, if this sounds familiar to you that
their peers matter more to the child than
the parent.
That they prioritize friends' opinions over
parents' or teachers' opinions.
That they mimic the behavior of their
friends right, there's a whole fashion

(18:04):
industry dedicated to teenagers.
They seek validation from their peers.
They are resistant to adult influence.
They have difficulty in school.
They go there to socialize, not necessarily
to learn, not that they don't, and that's

(18:24):
not everybody.
Right, some kids do fine in school, but
they're still peer-oriented.
There's increased anxiety and insecurity.
There's changes in mood and behavior.
In the book I thought it was interesting
because they compared it to almost like
having an affair, and I saw this with one
of my older kids, where I would try to talk

(18:46):
to him and he'd shut his door in his room
and he wouldn't want me to listen and he
wanted to keep things between he and his
friends very secretive.
And they said it's kind of like an affair
they don't want the other party, that they
don't want the parent to know what's going
on, that everything is private and they
don't want to share anything about their
lives, right?
Does any of this sound familiar to you?

(19:07):
Like for me.
When I read those signs, I, I was on a walk
and I started to cry.
And this is like four years ago, um, four
and a half years ago, and I was like that's
what happened to my boys four and a half

(19:27):
years ago.
And I was like that's what happened to my
boys and you'll see again the mimicking of
the behavior and and they're, they're
always, yeah, the validation from the
friends.
So a couple years ago we had some friends
over for dinner and the mom came and said,
hey, sorry, my daughter didn't come tonight.
And I'm like, oh, what's going on?
And she just started to cry and she's like

(19:51):
she's just been awful, like she won't talk
to us about anything, she only wants to
talk to her friends and, um, she won't
share anything about her life with us at
all at all.
She treats us like we are amoebas, if you
know.
She drives now, but when before she was
driving, she would tell us to drop us off.

(20:11):
Drop her off like, and so she could walk
part of the way so we wouldn't be seen, she
wouldn't be seen with us.
And it's just broken my heart and I was
like, oh, have you heard of the book Hold
on to your kids?
Let me explain to you about what this is
Like.
That she, her daughter, was a perfect
example of a peer oriented child.

(20:33):
The good news is for that family.
She did what it took to get her daughter's
heart back and now her daughter is I think
she just turned 20 and she's doing fabulous
and they have a very close relationship.
Okay, so those are signs of a peer-oriented
child.
Right and again.
Developmentally, this is not good for

(20:53):
children.
Here's some problems with peer orientation.
It stunts development.
They become more vulnerable.
They lose their natural shield against
stress, right when they're looking to their
peers for how to deal with stress, and
their peers have no idea.
It's like the blind leading the blind.

(21:15):
They become sensitized to insensitive
actions of children.
I've been in many conversations where I
hear adults argue for the need for kids to
be bullied in school to build resistance,
like that's their argument for public
school.
I'm like, seriously, so it it, um, it

(21:36):
causes the bullying situations to be worse.
Let me give you this quote Uh, this is,
this is what they say.
The problem is that life brings many
frustrations that are beyond us.
We cannot alter time or change, change the
past or undo what we have done.
We cannot avoid death, make good
experiences last cheat on reality, make

(21:57):
something work that won't, or induce
someone to cooperate with us when they may
not feel like it.
We are unable to always make things fair or
to guarantee our own way or another's
safety.
Of all these unavoidable frustrations, the
most threatening for children is that they
cannot make themselves psychologically and

(22:20):
emotionally secure.
These extremely important needs and
emotionally secure, these extremely
important needs sorry, these extremely
important needs to be wanted, invited,
liked, loved and special are out of their
control.
As long as we parents are successful in

(22:41):
holding onto our children, they need not be
confronted with the deep futility
fundamental to human existence.
It's not that we can forever protect them
from reality, but children should not have
to face challenges they are not ready for.
So we put them into the school system and

(23:05):
and then feed them to the wolves.
And there you go and they're separated from
us for the most valuable real estate of the
day, right, the most valuable real estate
time of the day the morning and the
afternoon.
And then we get them for the other times
and, and that's the time that they are like
during their growing up years are the time

(23:26):
that they're most vulnerable and they
they're not ready to face those challenges
yet I think of it like a greenhouse.
I look at like homeschooling now, like I,
we homeschool and it's like a greenhouse.
It's not that we're we are sheltering our
children from the world, but we are giving
them an environment where children can grow

(23:49):
and be protected from the elements until
they're big enough to be transplanted
outside, until they're strong enough to be
transplanted outside.
Okay.
So other problems with peer orientation,
vulnerability.
They start to be shamed by their peers,
they get insecure relationships Stuck in

(24:09):
immaturity through adulthoods, y'all.
If you look at 50s plus communities, oh my
gosh, they started popping up and, by the
way, they're three generations in Um.
We also see, uh, grandparents who would
rather spend time with their friends than
they would their grandkids.

(24:30):
I happen to know a set of grandparents like
that.
Um, they, these kids, need constant need
for approval.
They need love and significance.
They're unable to rest emotionally, but
those needs are never met.
They can't let go of things they uh need.
They're perpetually unfulfilled.

(24:51):
They're less able to adapt and then we see
a creation of bullies and victims.
Okay, get this.
I quote according to the New York times, in
one of the largest studies ever of child
development, researchers at the US National
Institute of Health reported that about a

(25:12):
quarter of all middle school children were
either perpetrators or victims or, in some
cases, both of serious and chronic bullying,
or, in some cases, both of serious and
chronic bullying behavior that included
threats, ridicule, name-calling, punching,
slapping, jeering and sneering Y'all.

(25:34):
I have dealt with this with my kids in
public school and I've dealt with it with
almost all of my kids, minus one who we
pulled in second grade that's when we
started homeschooling.
Um, and like, I've talked to parents.
Like the bullying is rampant and we pretend
like it's not, but it is and it's bad, it's

(25:54):
emotionally unhealthy and again, it's a
sign of peer oriented kids.
They don't, they don't know how to deal
with the bullying.
Um, because there's there becomes
domination without caring and oftentimes
kids will give sex as an expression of an
attachment, hunger, uh other signs or other

(26:16):
other problems with peer orientation.
The students become unteachable, y'all.
I hear people say that homeschool kids are
weird.
But let me tell you something that I've
observed since leaving the school system is
that homeschool kids oftentimes seem
immature, right, and this is what I started

(26:37):
discovering is that it's not
inappropriately immature Like that.
Homeschooled kids are generally
developmentally at a an appropriate
maturity level.
So I often will see the homeschool kids are

(26:59):
not sexualized.
Oftentimes they don't have boyfriends or
girlfriends when they're 11 or 12 or 13,
times that it's not developmentally
appropriate, right.
Or in some cases, eight or nine, like I had
my friends say, oh, my son's really
depressed, he doesn't have a Valentine this
year, and I'm like he's 10.

(27:23):
And she's like I know and like all of his
siblings have had boyfriends or girlfriends
since they were like eight.
I'm like that's not developmentally
appropriate, right.
But there's this, you know like with with
kids, it's not developmentally appropriate
for them to be overly mature and overly
sexualized Y'all.
That's not normal.

(27:45):
Historically it's not normal.
It might be typical today, but it's not.
It's not okay and it's not historically
typical, okay.
So so that those are signs of kids who,
whose hearts belong to their friends, but
y'all, their hearts need to belong to us.
So what do we need to do to reclaim their

(28:06):
hearts?
Okay, and I've I've said this so so many
times the single most important thing that
you're going to do, especially like, as
you're in the de-schooling phase, for those
of you who are starting homeschooling,
those of you who are not homeschooling
you're just public schoolers, and you came
upon this video.
You might want to consider homeschooling.
Um, just think about it.
You're just public schoolers, and you came
up on this video.

(28:26):
You might want to consider homeschooling.
Just think about it.
Just, I'm going to put that little bug in
your ear, but the main point is to
establish relationship.
So the primary goal is not to change
conduct or behavior.
Now, I've had kids who've had to go to, who
have gone to year.
Now, I've had kids who've had to go to the,
who have gone to um, I, I to a place called

(28:56):
Anasazi, which is an outdoor behavioral
wilderness foundation for kids who are
troubled kids.
Okay, we'll just put that out there.
I've had a couple of kids go to that
foundation and it's phenomenal.
Um, it's phenomenal, and and that was one
of the things that they taught us there is,
they're like.
Your objective should not be to control
behavior or get better behavior Like.

(29:16):
That should not be your, your objective
objective.
Your objective should be that you establish
a relationship with your children again,
because it's dead, it's gone, it doesn't
exist.
The same applies.
The starting point and the primary goal in
the connections ought to be relationship,
not to modify or control behavior.

(29:44):
It's much deeper than behavior.
Behavior will become a byproduct of a good
relationship, but the primary goal needs to
be the relationship.
Okay, so the first thing that we want to do
with uh to reclaim, to keep their hearts
and in some claims times, reclaim the
hearts is to what they, uh.

(30:06):
Dr Neufeld calls collecting our children.
And so what does that mean?
So he uses that term again and again.
We, we want to collect our children.
You want to collect your children and you
collect your children throughout the day.
What that means is to get in their face in
a positive, in their space, in a positive,
friendly, inviting, loving way as parents.

(30:27):
Positive, friendly, inviting, loving way as
parents.
That's with smiles and nods and your eyes
twinkling when you look at them, hugs when
possible.
You look into your eyeballs.
You look into their eyeballs because their
eyeballs are the window to the soul.
And you smile at them, you let them know

(30:47):
they are wanted.
You collect them anytime, after any
separation.
So when they've been gone from you, any
amount of time, you collect them with, like,
I am so glad to see you, I love you.
You make them feel wanted and special.
Very first thing, before, if they're in

(31:09):
trouble, before you discipline them, you
collect them first.
Um, when they wake up in the morning, when,
uh, after they've been playing video games
or watching a show or been with friends, uh,
after they've broken a sense of connection,
like you've gotten in an argument, you
collect them.
You reassure them that you love them, that

(31:30):
they matter to you.
You talk to them, you smile at them, you
hug them.
Now y'all.
I totally have failed at this a million
times.
Like there's, I wake up before everybody
else.
My husband and I get up super early in the
morning and um else, my husband and I get

(31:52):
up super early in the morning and um,
several times I've woken up and saw that
chores were not finished before bed,
because generally I fall asleep pretty
early and um, and I've gotten up and been
like Joshua, get up, you have not done the
dishes, right, that is the opposite of
collecting them.
Um, um, if I do that to Jacob, like, joshua
will be like okay, mom, right, um, oh, I've

(32:16):
had to, I've had to.
I have to change that.
Um, it's mostly to Joshua that I do it.
Like Joshua, um, but like to Jacob, my 13
year old, if, if I wake him up like that,
he starts to cry and he's like is this how
I'm starting my day, right?
So I have had to be very conscious about,
like, lovingly welcoming the kids.

(32:37):
And they want it, they want to be collected,
and so we collect them throughout the day.
Every time there's any form of separation,
even for an hour, we collect them.
We reassure them that we love them and we
want them.
Okay, this is, this is what they say.
In our society, we often do not even greet
our own child, nevermind anyone else's.

(33:00):
As children lose their own initiative to
connect with us after times of separation,
it may seem less important to us that we
reach out to them.
Nothing could be farther from the truth.
We must compensate with our own enthusiasm
and initiative that we collect them and

(33:23):
reestablish a connection with them right
away, and it's positive, because otherwise
we are disconnecting with them, like, if we
start the day with Joshua, get up and do
the dishes Right, that disconnects them
from us and we need to have them connected
to us.
Okay, and I have to say this y'all I
mentioned that I lost the, that like I did

(33:44):
not have the hearts and minds of my boys.
As a 20-something-year-old, I was able to
reconnect and reestablish a relationship
with my now 23-year-old son.
We are closer than we have ever been and
when there is an issue or something, guess
who he comes to.
He comes to my husband and I and he wants

(34:05):
to talk to us and the hard-burning things
that are on his heart he talks to.
He comes to my husband and I and he wants
to talk to us and the hard burning things
that are on his heart he talks to us about.
We have, I've been able to, I've been able
to take his heart back, even as an adult.
So it is possible.
And honestly, I did not think that was

(34:25):
possible when he was 17 and 18.
Like, I was ready for him to leave the
house.
I was so ready for him to be gone.
So was my husband, like we're done Right.
And then some things happened over time and
then when he was, uh, 20, almost 21, not
quite 21.

(34:45):
He moved back in with us and we worked
really hard on on working on that
relationship and that connection, and so it
is possible.
It is possible, okay.
For those of you who are like this is not
possible, my child is too, no, it is.
Never in a million years would I have

(35:07):
thought it was possible.
But it is possible, okay.
So you're going to collect the children.
Um, next thing you're going to do is you're
going to give them something to hold onto.
You're going to offer them something to
attach to.
What does that mean?
That means that means they've written it
out here.

(35:27):
For me, the first thing attention and
interest are powerful primers of connection.
Signs of affection are potent.
Researchers have identified emotional
warmth, enjoyment and delight at the top of
the list as effective activators of
attachment.
If we have a twinkle in our eye and some

(35:47):
warmth in our voice, we invite connection
that most children will not turn down.
When we give children signs that they
matter to us, most children will want to
hold onto the knowledge that they are
special to us and appreciated in our life.
Okay, the ultimate gift I go on, I'm going
to skip down the ultimate gift is to make a

(36:09):
child feel invited to exist in our presence
exactly as he is, to express our delight in
his very being.
There are thousands of ways this invitation
can be conveyed in gesture, in words, in
symbols and inactions.
The child must know that she is wanted,
special, significant, valued, appreciated,

(36:33):
missed and enjoyed.
For children to fully receive this
invitation, to believe it and to be able to
hold onto it, even when we are not with
them physically, it needs to be genuine and
unconditional.
We need to give them our hearts, like they
need it too.

(36:53):
I've I've mentioned this last week Last
week was a precursor to this podcast
because they want our attention.
They want it full and unadulterated.
Y'all.
I've been so proud of myself.
I've been putting my phone in my purse and
not looking at it and I've missed calls and
I miss texts.
I've missed Facebook marketplace updates of

(37:16):
people wanting to look at my the stuff that
I'm selling on Facebook marketplace, and I
put it away.
And I've been present with my kids and they
have loved it.
All of them have loved it.
They want our attention, okay, and we need
to give them our attention.
That because that, emotionally, that's

(37:38):
something for them to hold on to, okay.
So six ways that children attach is they
attach with physical proximity, with senses,
sight, smell, sound, touch.
Those things matter.
I have a good friend and every time I stop
by her house, our daughters.

(38:01):
She homeschools as well, and our daughters
are really close friends, and so I love to
go over and drop her off and always spend a
few minutes and every single time she I'm
there, she's in the kitchen.
Okay, so she just she's got teens.
Just like me, I've got adult children.
She doesn't quite have kids Like.
Her oldest is my child number four's age,
um, so her oldest is 17, turning 18.

(38:21):
Um, and then she just had a baby and y'all
kids are at her house all the time.
So her older kids are in public school, her
younger kids homeschool, and everybody
wants to be at her house and when, as soon
as people walk in the door, she's like hi
guys, and she's always in the kitchen

(38:42):
making something homemade, which is one of
the reasons I like going over there too,
because she's like I just made nons
homemade, which is one of the reasons I
like going over there too, because she's
like I just made naans, would you like some
naans?
And I just made this thing, and y'all it
makes me feel like and I the smells of her
house and like the scents, like not smells,
it doesn't smell bad, it smells delicious,
and her smiles and like I just made this,

(39:03):
and there's teenagers at her house all the
time.
There are also teenagers at my house all
the time, which is funny because we are the
homeschoolers, right, and it's the public
school kids who often are the ones coming
over.
Um, but that close physical proximity and
those smells and those sounds and those
senses, uh, one of my kids said mom, one of

(39:24):
my favorite memories is one night when
Sunday I got home from church and I took a
nap and I could hear beautiful soft music
playing and you were making my favorite
dinner and I could smell it from, like
waking up in my afternoon nap and the sun
was coming through and it smelled so good

(39:44):
and the soft music and it just it made me
smile, like such a happy memory, like and
I'm so thankful I gave that to that child
like that memory, that feeling of I am in a
safe place where I am loved and my mom is
making my favorite dinner.

(40:05):
So they want that physical proximity and
they want their senses, like we scratch
their backs and we touch their faces and we
make their favorite dinners and you know we,
those things matter.
Um sameness.
A child seeks to be like those who they are
attached to.
This gives them a sense of identity.
Um, now, most people would say this is

(40:27):
weird, but my teenage daughter dresses like
me, like we, we share clothes, y'all.
She's 17 and a half and people don't think
she dresses weird even though she's a
teenager.
Actually, the thing that I get about Katie
which Katie's going to be coming on the
podcast as an interviewer here in a few
weeks uh, as an interviewee, I guess I
should say.

(40:48):
Um, the thing that I get about Katie all
the time is people tell me all the time
like she is so good, she is so kind, she is
so smart, how did you get her to be like
this?
Like I want my child to be like her.
Um, she came that way right.

(41:10):
But when I started seeing that I was losing
her heart because we pulled the kids when
we pulled the kids five years ago, y'all I
saw I was losing her heart.
I didn't realize.
I didn't understand parent versus peer
orientation.
Back then I didn't know what that was, but
I knew that I was losing her heart and I

(41:31):
was able to take that back.
And the reason that she is such an awesome
kid is number one.
She was just, she was born just awesome.
But all kids are all of them are but number
two we've been able to keep that
relationship and that connection, that
establishment.
When she has issues with something, she
comes to me, which is every day mom I'm

(41:54):
upset about this, or mom this is.
Or when she's excited, like she comes to me
before she goes to anybody else, which is
how it should be.
That's the natural order of things.
And she also uses my jewelry.
She also.
We wear similar clothes, right, and I know
y'all I couldn't do that two years ago when
I was still heavy, but now we have.

(42:17):
She's still a little bit smaller than me,
but we're almost the same size, but there's
a sameness.
Like the child seeks to be, like those who
they're attached to, they'll mimic those
they're attached to.
We want them mimicking adults because
that's how they become ducks, right,
ducklings become ducks.
We want them to become ducks.
We want them to mimic our behavior.
So we, our behavior better be good.

(42:39):
We better be mimic, like demonstrating good
behavior.
I've gotten much better with my language
around my children, but when one day, when
Katie was little, I heard her swear and I'm
like, why would you say that?
And she's like you say it.
I'm like, oh my gosh, I must be better.

(42:59):
Right, we need to mimic that behavior.
But the child wants to be the same as us.
Right, you'll see like children want their
dolls to dress like them and behave like
them.
Right, it's the natural order of things is
that we, when we are oriented to someone,
when we are attached, they, we have that
attachment, those attachment bonds there

(43:21):
that they want to be same, similar.
They want to mimic.
Um, they, they attach with belonging and
loyalty.
Right, they're going to be loyal to the
person that they're attached to.
They want to know that they're, that they,
they're significant, that they matter to
somebody.

(43:43):
So that's why we put away our phones,
because that tells them you matter to me
more than this phone.
They need the feelings of warmth and
affection, they need to be known, they need
the pursuit of closeness.
They want to share their secrets with

(44:03):
somebody.
So this was really fascinating to me is
parent oriented kids do not keep secrets
from their parents.
Peer oriented kids will.
They absolutely will, and we'll talk about
this here in a second.
But they also keep the innermost secrets
from their peers too, um, which we'll talk

(44:23):
about, which is emotionally not healthy.
So, but they, but they don't keep secrets
from their parents.
Now I got a call this week from, from a mom
and she knew that I would was going to be
talking about this and she said I have to
tell you something.
I have to tell you this story of what

(44:43):
happened to my daughter.
So her daughter is 14, turning 15.
They started homeschooling two years ago.
Uh, no, no, no, is that right?
Let's see, she had just finished seventh
grade when they started homeschooling.
Okay, so, um, and now she's going into 10th
grade.
So she told me her daughter, um, was like

(45:09):
mom, I have to tell you something.
So this happened this last week.
I have to tell you something.
And she's like what happened, and she's
like a girl at church who I used to be
friends with at church and school told me
that she took my picture and has been using

(45:30):
it to catfish boys.
Okay, so what does that mean?
I had to find out.
I didn't know what catfishing was.
So she said and I'll tell you here in a
second she said mom, I, I gave her my
picture, like everyone was sharing pictures
and it wasn't inappropriate, like it wasn't
a naked picture, it wasn't sexting, it was
just like a like a little snapshot of her.
She's like everyone.

(45:51):
Everyone at school was like sharing
pictures with each other of themselves and
not inappropriate ones.
But the here's the picture that I shared
and it was just a snapshot of her and she's
super cute.
And this girl over the last few months
again, that was two years ago she's like
mom, I I didn't, I just went with the flow.

(46:12):
I did what everyone else did.
I didn't even think about it being like
weird or unusual.
Um, and she goes some kids were sexting.
I didn't do that.
But, um, and, by the way, if you don't
think your kids are sexting and you know
that they're peer-oriented, you may want to
look into it.

(46:32):
Snapchat is not your friend or theirs.
Okay, I digress.
So she said this girl took her picture over
the last few months and was going online
conversing with boys, with my, with this
mom's daughter's picture, which was a

(46:54):
violation of privacy and is just invasive
in a violation period.
And so the girl's like sorry about that,
but I think you're prettier than me and I
don't like how I look and I feel ugly.
So I used your picture and this girl felt

(47:16):
really, really betrayed and she's like what
the heck, anyway?
So the mom said okay, let's, let's talk
about this.
And and the mom called the other parents
and said you know, she's been using my
daughter's picture.
I don't know what else she's been doing,
but she's been using her picture.
And they said well, we'll talk to her.

(47:36):
Didn't get an apology.
The parents didn't see any problem with
this girl using someone else's picture to
connect with boys online who she's never
met, who could be, you know, 45-year-old
men behind the computer screen, right.

(47:57):
And so they asked for a cease and desist,
like you are to remove her picture, you're,
anyway, all this stuff.
So this mom said.
She said you know, um, it's all been really
upsetting this whole situation.
Thankfully it it could be a lot worse, but
it's not.
She said but my daughter and I sat down and
had a really long talk about things you

(48:19):
know and at her daughter's request, she's
like can I talk to you about some things,
mom?
And she's like sure.
And her daughter said, um, I, I used to do
what everyone else did, like I just
followed the crowd because I didn't know
who I was and being with you for the last

(48:41):
two years since we started, homeschooling
has been really healing for me and for my
heart.
And now I know who I am and I know I'm
important and I know I'm loved.
And so when girls, when I see girls other
girls that I went to school with or I see
girls at church and they're like, oh, this

(49:02):
is what we do, she's like I don't feel like
I have to do what they do.
I have confidence.
Mom, I I like who I am and I like who I'm
becoming.
And this mom said she just broke down in
tears.
She said I didn't have my child's heart.

(49:23):
She goes.
I knew I had her heart and because I've
gotten her heart back, she has received her
self-esteem from me and from my husband.
She's like I, if I could shout from the
rooftops, pull your kids to homeschool and
then connect with them, she was like I
would.
She's like tell them they need to, and I'm

(49:45):
like I do every week, right?
Um, kids have this drive for connection,
y'all.
They have this drive for connection and if
they don't get it from us, they're gonna
get it from somebody else.
Okay, the next thing that we need to do is
we need to invite dependence.

(50:07):
Yes, you heard that correctly.
They need to become dependent emotionally
on us.
This is and they clarify I'm going to Dr
Neufeld clarifies here our new world
preoccupation with independence gets in the
way.
We have no problem inviting the dependence
of infants, but past that phase,

(50:29):
independence becomes our primary agenda.
Whether it's for our children to dress
themselves, feed themselves, settle
themselves, entertain themselves, think for
themselves, solve their own problems, the
story is the same.
We champion independence, or what we
believe is independence.
We fear that to invite dependence is to

(50:50):
invite regression instead of development,
that if we give dependence an inch it will
take a mile.
What we're really encouraging with this
attitude is not true independence, only
independence from us.
Dependence is transferred to the peer group.

(51:10):
Mic drop y'all.
We need to act as our children's compass
point.
We are meant to be their guide and to
acquaint them with the world.
Think about being in a foreign country, and
they use this example in the book You're in
a foreign country and you don't speak the

(51:33):
language.
Have you ever gone on a trip where you
didn't speak the language and you have a
tour guide and the tour guide is with you?
Or maybe you meet somebody and they help
you a little bit because they speak English
and and the other language and they help
you.
And what happens?
You immediately become bonded to that

(51:53):
person.
You immediately want like them to help you,
like, okay, so they, you become dependent
on them.
Right, you need their help.
The tour guide.
Like we were in a foreign country that did
speak English and I was still like the tour
guide's, like at this time, the bus will be
leaving, you can find me here if you have
any questions.

(52:13):
And so I was like, oh, okay, there's where
the tour guide is.
Okay, bus is leaving at this time.
Like I needed the tour guide to help me
acquaint with the world when I was in that
different country.
Like I needed their help.
Children are the same way we.
They need us to be their compass points.

(52:39):
We have to remember quote that children are
in need of being oriented and that we have
we are their best resources for that,
whether they know it or not.
So some things that this is what we're
going to do today.
This is what we're having for dinner
tonight.
Let me show you how this works.
I love in the help and I can't remember the

(53:02):
character's name, but she would always say
to the children she'd take them by their
little faces when their mothers were awful
to them and she would take their little
faces and she'd squish their faces and
she'd look into their eyes and she'd say
you are kind, you are smart, you are
important, right?

(53:23):
They gain their self-esteem, their
orientation of the world, that dependence
on us like that is our job is to be their
compass point.
So last week we were at the farmer's market
and there was this little store like off
the side of the like, by the farmer's
market is there was this little store like
off the side of the like by the farmer's
market is the church that they turned into
a little like an old, old, old church from

(53:44):
the like early 1900s, that they turned into
like this cute little boutique.
And so my 17 and a half year old Katie and
I went into the boutique and she's like, oh,
mom, look at that dress and it was adorable.
And so I said do you want to get it?
Like you're due for a couple of new dresses.

(54:04):
And she's like can I try it on?
I'm like, yeah, so she tries it on.
And I looked at her in the mirror.
So I went and she's like come with me.
I'm like, okay, so I look at her in the

(54:26):
mirror and she looks at me and I said what
do you think?
And she's like uh, I mean I like it.
And I said she goes.
And then she, she turned to me and she
looked at me and she's like mama, do you
think I look pretty in it?
Because I'm still her mom.
And I said, of course, no, honey, you don't
look pretty, you look beautiful in it.
And she just went I think I do too.

(54:50):
She still needed me to be her compass point.
She still needed me to be her compass point.
My 23 year old just said mom, he called me
at the car dealership.
He called me and he's like or at the car
repair place.
He was like mom, mom, I can't get ahold of
dad.
I'm like, what's going on?

(55:10):
He's like um, okay, they want to charge me
this much for repairs and I think that's
wrong and I wanted to get your opinion.
I can't get him.
He was like I've called dad first Cause
that my husband knows more about cars than
I do and he's the natural source to go for
car dealerships and car repairs.

(55:31):
And so I said, well, um, let's talk about
it, okay, so they want this much for this.
You know he needed us to at 23 years old to
be a compass point?
Um, even into adulthood, right?
This?
This helps children know the natural
compass point is adults.
It's our, our parents, our grandparents,

(55:51):
right?
Um, I had a business question about
something and I called my dad and I called
my father-in-law, because the natural
compass point is to call them.
I didn't call my friends, I didn't.
I called my dad and my father-in-law.
We become their compass points.

(56:13):
So we need to make the relationship
priority.
We need to shift from worrying about their
behavior to worrying about the relationship
and we need to parent with attachment as
the goal.
Okay, I love this.
When our children abandon us for their
peers, we feel just as violated, angry and

(56:37):
humiliated as we would in any other
relationship we deeply cared about.
It is about, it's natural, when wounded, to
recoil defensively, withdrawing emotionally
to avoid getting hurt even more.
This is when we need to be parents.
I continue.
This is when the defensive part of our
brain gives us the urge to back out of
vulnerability territory to place to a place

(57:00):
where insults no longer sting and the lack
of connection does not turn the stomach.
Parents are only human.
Withdrawing our attachment energy may
defend us against further vulnerability,
but the child experiences it as rejection.
We need to recall that the child is not
consciously setting out to hurt us.

(57:22):
He's only following his skewed instincts.
So even though it's hard when our children
are peer-oriented and we're working on
reconnecting with them and collecting them
and taking their hearts back, we cannot
unattach from them.
Even though the natural instinct is to do

(57:42):
that, we have to continue to attach.
So we need to help keep our kids close.
Let them know that they matter.
Like I've said, kind tones, compassion,
understanding go a long way.
Discover their attachment language and hone
in on it, much like their love languages.
Stay connected also physically, with like
things when you're apart from them, like

(58:04):
with a locket or little notes If you're
still in the public school system, notes in
their lunchbox If they go to an enrichment
activity that you put a note in their
lunchbox.
Record a voice message, have a special song
between the two of you.
It's a little special gifts to be opened at
special times.
When my daughter was at camp I had little
gifts.
It was an overnight camp for my 17-year-old

(58:26):
and I had a little something for her open
each day with a little note letting her
know I loved her and she loved it.
Texts my husband's really good about
sending texts to the kids that he loves
them and he's thinking about them.
Now we have a family text group that
everybody texts and they'll like even our
23-year-olds like, oh my gosh, this is the
most hilarious picture, right?
He wants, they want to stay connected.
I loved and I mentioned record a voice

(58:48):
message, y'all.
So my, I have a sister who passed away 10
years ago and my nieces and nephew.
For my brother-in-law one year for his
birthday, my nephew had kept on his phone,

(59:09):
um, my sister leaving a message for him.
Just, she was like hey, buddy, just
thinking of you, I love you, okay, bye.
They took that and they put it in a
Build-A-Bear recorder and then they put it
in a stuffed animal for my brother-in-law
and he opened the gift and he's like oh,
it's a teddy bear.

(59:29):
They said squeeze, squeeze the squeeze the
hand.
So he squeezes it and he's like, and they
hear hey, just thinking about you, I love
you, I miss you, okay, bye.
And my brother-in-law lost it Just to hear

(59:50):
her voice again.
Anyway, record a message.
If you have a Yodo player, you can do
little cards and record your voice.
Okay, the ultimate goal is helping our
children to keep us close is to cultivate a
profound intimacy that our children's peers
cannot compete with.

(01:00:11):
I mentioned this a little bit earlier.
But kids guard their innermost feelings,
even with their friends, particularly when
they are peer-oriented.
They keep the vulnerable stuff inside,
unless they're parent-oriented, and then
our job is to pull those things out.
So the secrets that kids share with one

(01:00:35):
another are often secrets about another's
or information about themselves that does
not give too much away.
The vulnerable stuff rarely gets said.
That's fortunate for parents, since the
sense of closeness that can come from
feeling deeply known and understood is

(01:00:56):
probably the deepest intimacy of all,
creating a bond that can transcend the most
difficult of physical separations.
The power of such intimate parent-child
connection cannot be overstated.
So if they keep those things in and they
don't share it and they're peer-oriented,
it becomes very self-destructive for them.

(01:01:22):
It becomes very self-destructive for them
and y'all the inconvenient times that they
need us to share with us, to talk with us,
to walk with us, oftentimes like if we can
get them out, and we need them to share,
like times in the car, as we're driving in
the car, times when we're walking with them
or cooking alongside of them.
Those are times that allow them to share
what's on their heart without, like,
staring at their faces.

(01:01:43):
Those times are crucially important and
oftentimes it comes at very inconvenient
times.
The other night, joshua came in and he had
been with his friends and he started to cry
and I was like what's going on?
And I was so tired.
My husband had gone out of town with
another child and I was oh tired and it was

(01:02:05):
so late.
And he said, mama, I need you right now.
And so he laid down next to me and I patted
his head and he's like, tickled my face.
I'm okay, he is 18 and a half right and I'm
tickling his face.
And he said somebody said something that
really hurt my feelings.
And this is what was said and it really

(01:02:26):
bothered me and you know, I don't know if I
should call and confront them because I
don't know if they were intentionally meant
to hurt my feelings and I'm like, well,
that was pretty rude.
So what they said.
And so he's like how do I deal with this?
And I just mostly listened and he talked
for two hours and finally, at midnight I

(01:02:49):
said baby, are you doing okay now?
And he's like yeah, I'm okay.
I said, good, I love you.
And I need to go to bed because I'm so
tired.
He's like, okay, I love you, mama, and he
went up to bed.
Um, it was not convenient, that was not
convenient.
There's been other times that I've totally
fail, like fail.

(01:03:09):
It was an inconvenient time and I failed,
but I did okay the other night.
Those are the times that are the most
important.
When it's an inconvenient, we have to
remember that.
Okay, some things that we need to do is
structure and impose restrictions.
What does that mean?
We need to impose order on a child's
behavior, establish structures that
cultivate connection, such as family dinner,

(01:03:32):
make those things non-negotiable.
This is another suggestion they give.
The first step in creating this kind of
closeness is to draw the child out.
Although many children need an invitation,
asking them what they think and feel seldom
works.
Sometimes, the trick is finding the right
kind of structure Regular outings together,
shared tasks, walking the dog With my

(01:03:54):
mother.
It was when we were washing the dishes or
picking blueberries together that I would
share the thoughts and feelings that hardly
ever came out otherwise.
The closeness I felt at those times was
very special indeed and went a long way to
create an enduring connection, and so we
need to create times of connection with the
kids and allowing for that time of

(01:04:20):
connection Like they said, walking the dog
or different times when it allows them time
to connect with us and to share those
things with us.
And then we also want to restrict things
that weaken connections.
So actually, y'all, I don't do overnights

(01:04:40):
with my kids for lots of reasons.
Lots of reasons I used to.
I stopped, I mostly stopped when once we
had a birthday party and this kid vomited
chocolate all over my floor and then
another kid peed on the couch, not in like
in a sleep, like he wet the couch and

(01:05:01):
anyway, that's when I decided we will never
do sleepovers again, ever.
I didn't.
His mom was like, oh, by the way, I forgot
to tell you he wets the bed.
Did he wear his pull-up?
I I meant, and I thought, oh my gosh, and
they were like 10.
So she, like the other kids, didn't know
right.
Anyway, it was awful, um.

(01:05:23):
But there's far deeper reasons that we
don't do sleepovers Like I've heard horror
stories.
Thankfully we've never had any horror
stories of sleepovers, um, but things like
sleepovers like I, um, sleepovers weaken
connection to us and so we have
restrictions on those Um structures and

(01:05:45):
restrictions safeguard the sacred.
I love that quote.
Here we go.
So how do we reclaim their hearts when
they're older, when they're deeply
entrenched in the peer relationship and the
peer orientation, you can't directly come
out and be like you can't hang out with

(01:06:09):
your friends anymore.
Believe me, I've tried that.
It's really bad, it goes bad.
It goes really bad and then they do even
more to try to hang out with their friends.
Now, my friends, we have to do covert
operations to reclaim their hearts and we
have to be very proactive.
Now, again, we're still going to work on
the collecting our children, all those

(01:06:30):
things that we've already talked about
you're going to do, right, we're already
going to do those things.
Right, we're already going to do those
things.
But we have to be very proactive about
creating a mini culture within our own
families and be covert about some of these

(01:06:51):
things.
So we need they say, we need some rights of
attachment to safeguard the sacred,
something that serves in the long term, so
we don't have to be conscious of it in the
short term.
So we need to have some non-negotiables in
place.
For example, we need to set up times that
we separate from the peers, where they do

(01:07:12):
not have contact with those peers.
We go on family vacations, but phones are
not allowed.
We have family traditions where, again,
peers are not invited, the phone is not
allowed.
We have family days.
Yeah, today is a family day.
We're not going to hang with friends and
we're not going to have our phones on.

(01:07:33):
We set up family prayer holiday traditions.
We might have board game nights, again,
where friends are not invited.
Now are there going to be times that you
invite friends to stuff?
Yes, but during your sacred family time
where you're trying to reestablish

(01:07:54):
connection to your child or to your
teenager, it has to be without friends
because the connection has to shift to you
and if your friend's there it's not going
to shift.
You cannot force or confront the peer
problem directly.
You have to get back to the basics with

(01:08:16):
guarding your family time without friends
and sometimes it's going to be really hard
to impose restrictions on peer-oriented
kids.
So be intentional with the family time and
you guard it and then make it meaningful
and wonderful and you collect them the
whole time.
That the board games end up happy and not
in a fight.

(01:08:36):
Right that that family dinner end up happy
and not in a fight.
Right that that family dinner.
You're talking about the good things and
not nagging on them during that time, but
it becomes a safe refuge to laugh and to
talk together, work on projects together.
So on Friday, katie and I like I'm opening

(01:08:57):
a new little podcast studio under the
stairs in my basement which is going to
have better acoustics and that way my
husband and I don't have to share an office.
And I found a free desk on Facebook
marketplace that I wanted to turn into a
bright green desk because I want to
saturate color, saturate that little space,

(01:09:18):
and my husband's like what.
And so Katie and I spent most of late
Friday afternoon and late into the evening
sanding down this desk and painting the
little soon to be podcast Harry Potter
studio that is under my stairs, which I'm
super excited about, and we loved it.

(01:09:39):
We worked on a project together and it was
fun Y'all.
We do flip houses so that our kids can help
connect with us and we're granted my
husband's in a real estate, so it's a lot
easier.
So if you don't normally do flip houses,
okay, I get it, you're not going to do a
flip house.
But if you can come up with projects that
you can do together, we're going to clean
out the garage together, we're going to go

(01:10:01):
volunteer here and hike, you know, and do
this service project together.
We're going to go feed the homeless
together.
There's this really cool service place in,
like this church does it.
It's called Love Thy Neighbor, where you
can go every second and fourth Saturday and
help build beds for the homeless and you

(01:10:21):
build it and cut it and sand it and all the
things and you do it together Like projects
like oh great things.
Play games together, walks, have bedtime
rituals with your children.

(01:10:43):
Rituals with your children Indirectly limit
the contact with the peers and if
technology flames the competition, put
limits on it or get rid of it altogether.
Now, I have tried doing that in the past
and I did have a child who went out and
bought a burner phone.
When we got rid of the phone, hold off on
getting your kids' phones as long as
possible, like smartphones.
Hold off as long as humanly possible and if

(01:11:07):
you need to take away their phones, take
them away.
If you need to, might they get burner
phones.
Yes, one did.
Another child did not.
He did not go to buy a burner phone, but he
was really mad and they get mad.
They will get mad right.
So, but otherwise indirectly limit contact.
Oh, we can't do.
Yeah, you can't hang out with friends today
because we've got to take care of these

(01:11:29):
things, we.
You can't hang out with friends today
because I need your help doing this.
We can't hang out with friends today
because it's a family day and we're going
to do this really fun thing.
Right, it has to be covert.
Plan ahead and be prepared for a very rough
ride.
Take hold of ourselves and our emotions,
y'all.
We have to be the adults and even when our

(01:11:50):
kids lose their shiz I said shiz, um, not
the other word, um you can utilize
grounding when appropriate to separate your
kids.
Right, you're sorry, you're you're, you
know you broke the rules.
You can't hang out with your friends and
you can't have your phone.

(01:12:11):
A lot of times kids understand that the
more peer-oriented, steeply oriented a
child is, the harder it becomes.
Like I said, we've dealt with tough stuff.
Steeply oriented a child is, the harder it
becomes.
Like I said, we've dealt with tough stuff,
um, and in some cases you may take drastic
measures, like I had a friend who started
homeschooling to get her child's heart back.

(01:12:31):
She started homeschooling before me.
She didn't know.
Um, yeah, I asked her why'd you start
homeschooling?
She's like because I'm really worried about
the influence that some of these kids are
having on my, my daughter, like she's
becoming so depressed and I feel like I
need to bring her home, like she naturally
felt.
That instinct as a mom scared her to death.
She quit her job, all the things, brings

(01:12:53):
her daughter home.
And then there was still problems with one
of the neighbor kids and it got to the
point that they were so concerned with
their daughter that her husband and she
prayed and prayed and they're like what do
we do?
And the answer came you need to move, like
full-on move to a different city.

(01:13:15):
Now they upended and she was not the only
reason, but that was one of the major
factors of them moving.
So he found another job in another city
closer to family, and they moved.
And sometimes sometimes it requires
something that drastic when none of the

(01:13:37):
other measures work.
Sometimes it does.
We sent two of our kids to a wilderness
program to help deal with the mental health
and everything else.
And sometimes you have to take drastic
measures because our kids matter.

(01:13:58):
They matter more than almost anything else.
Sometimes you have to take drastic measures
because our kids matter.
They matter more than almost anything else.
That's why we continue to homeschool my
friends.
That and the education system is a mess,

(01:14:20):
but I focus in our homeschooling on our
relationship and the connection.
Yeah, reading and writing and math is
important and learning this stuff is
important, but the relationship that I have
with them is the most important.
Parenting is much, much easier when you
have their hearts.
As a matter of fact, you cannot parent a
child whose heart you don't have.
I take a nod from Jesus.

(01:14:45):
Jesus waits with open arms to receive us.
He doesn't shut them.
And the second we're willing to turn our
hearts to him, he's there, waiting to
embrace.
And I've thought about that.
I thought about that with my oldest two
kids that so many times I closed my arms
and I closed my heart when they needed me

(01:15:07):
to open it.
They needed me to collect them.
They needed me to want to engage with them
and to love on them and I became defensive.
And it took into adulthood for me to get
hearts back.

(01:15:30):
Focus on the relationship.
Take their hearts back.
It's time, if you haven't already, and if
you have their hearts, keep their hearts
back.
It's time, if you haven't already, and if
you have their hearts, keep their hearts.
You are doing so much better than you think
you are.
You got this.
We'll talk next week.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}109. Reclaiming the Hearts of Your Children