THROWBACK INTERVIEW: Nicole Shiffler on Unschooling

Episode Transcript
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Janae Daniels (00:06):
Hello and welcome to School, to Home School.
I am Jenae Daniels.
I'm a wife, a mother of six and a former
middle school teacher turned homeschool mom.
I have kids in their 20s all the way down
to elementary age and everything in between.
Are you thinking about pulling your kids
from the school system, like I did?
But you're scared to death and don't know

(00:27):
what to do next.
My friends, I felt the same way and you
have come to the right place.
I want to help your family leave the system
so that you can take the hearts and minds
of your children back.
Hello, my friends, and welcome back.
I am very excited for today's episode.

(00:50):
We have one of my heroes on the podcast
today.
I want to welcome Nicole Schiffler.
So, nicole, thank you for coming on.
Yeah, I'm so excited to be here.
Well, I'm excited to have you.
So let me tell you how I know Nicole,
because she's somebody that all of you are
going to want to know.

(01:10):
When, as most of my listeners know, you'll
know that the first year of homeschooling
was really rough for us and we ended up
moving towards the unschooling eclectic
unschooling, which is child-led learning.
So, for those that are new to the program,
unschooling is child-led learning, and
that's kind of the direction that we moved

(01:30):
when we started that.
After that first year and when I started
unschooling, I told my good friend, who
homeschools as well, that we were thinking
about unschooling and she's like oh my gosh,
there's this influencer on Instagram that I
follow every single day.
You've got to look her up.

(01:50):
So I literally pulled out my phone, looked
her up and, lo and behold, we had a mutual
friend, which was so crazy that we had one
friend in common.
So I added Nicole as a friend and then
reached out and over the course of the last
couple years, we've gotten to know each
other and finally got to meet in May, which

(02:11):
I was a little starstruck.
I was like oh my gosh.
So the coolest thing, though, my friends,
is, you know how there are.
There are people that you're like they're
one way, like on Instagram, and then when
you meet them they're a different way.
That's not Nicole and her family.
Like what you see on Instagram is a hundred
percent what you get.

Nicole Shiffler (02:32):
And you're nice, janae, I'm serious, like
just Nicole's.

Like Nicole I'm speaking third person about
you and her Just your kids are just great
and kind and sweet to each other and just a
great family and a loving family and
ridiculously smart kids and talented, and
so everything that you see on Instagram

(02:58):
with Nicole is a hundred percent what you
get, which I so anyway.

so I'm so excited to have you, and now I
won't talk about your third person anymore.
That was quite the introduction.
That is so sweet of you, so.

I want to talk to Nicole, because you
started.
Let's talk about the homeschooling journey
First.
You have seven children, yes, so talk about
your family a little bit Okay.

So seven kids.
We never really planned to homeschool, I
think, when I first became a mom.
I just did whatever I saw other people do,
and we lived in Pennsylvania, then we lived
in Virginia for a while.
We now currently live in Naples, florida,
but I just started doing really what I

(03:41):
think a lot of society does, which is just
copy what mainstream is right.
I was feeding my kids juice as toddlers and
then after a while I was like, ah, maybe I
shouldn't be, or you know, I was doing all
the things that I saw culture doing right
With their kids they watch cartoons, they
do this and that my sister actually started

(04:04):
to tell me about some homeschooling books
that she was reading and she would call me
and just tell me about them and I remember
thinking, oh, that's interesting.
At this point my oldest was three and so I
started to get books on my own at the
library and I just started reading very
basic books about homeschooling as an
alternative and I started to get a little
bit more and more excited about something

(04:24):
different.
So that's kind of where I began getting
interested in homeschooling.
Do you want me to keep going on about my
journey?

I can go ahead if you want.
Yeah, and keep it.
And so for those of you listening, so your
oldest daughter is 18.
Yes, and then in college, and then your
youngest is yes.

So, yeah, my oldest is 18.
And she's actually 18 and a sophomore
college, which I think we're going to talk
about that in a minute.
My youngest is about to turn five.
So we have a big family and I just had I
wanted to give something different to my
kids.
So I started to do a little bit more
research into that.

(05:10):
So what started with me looking into
homeschooling books and I would start to
bring it up to my husband, who was like
there's no way we're homeschooling our kids.
We're not going to have weird kids that are
homeschooled.
So I was struggling with that.
Well, he is looking at this like we would
make our kids really crazy if we choose to
homeschool.

(05:30):
But I just kind of kept getting drawn to
this idea of there was something different.
So that's how the introduction of
homeschool came to me.
It was really when I was a very young mom
and I only had two kids and, looking back,
little did I know that I would not only
choose to homeschool, but I would choose to
do a really unusual style of homeschooling
that nobody was doing which we're going to

(05:51):
talk about in a second and that really that
decision to homeschool and to homeschool do
this child led, natural learning,
unschooling, whatever you want to call it.
That would really start to shape our family
and all of the decisions that we would make.
So it really those really early years as a
mom have transformed where we are now.

(06:14):
I love that.

I love that.
So when you started homeschooling with your
oldest, did you start child led learning
right away, or did you kind of morph into
that Talk about?

that?
Yeah, that's a good question.
So I happened upon.
I think this is what happens to a lot of
people that are looking into child led
learning or unschooling.
If you get a hold of any John Holt books,
he starts to change the way that you see
your children.
He starts to change the way that you see
the way that humans learn.

(06:46):
And so I started to read some like basic
homeschooling books were very gentle and
you know we're pretty much going to
replicate school at home.
So then I got, like I said, I started to
read these John Holt books and I just
thought this is not what I was expecting.
This is completely changing how I'm seeing
raising my kids.
And so for those of you that aren't

(07:07):
familiar with John Holt, who's an American
educator, phenomenal guy, he taught for
years, wrote a lot of books.
He wrote the book why let's see how
Children Learn, how Children Fail.
Those were two of his most famous books.
But what John Holt did?
He then leaves the school system.
He's so distraught with what public school

(07:27):
is doing and how it's killing that natural
learning instinct in kids and then he
really sets off on this journey.
I mean this is the late seventies.
He starts off on this journey to start
teaching people about homeschooling.
Not we're going to try to make public
school better.
He pretty much says in all of his writings
there is nothing we can do.

(07:48):
The system is broken.
You need to get your kids out of the system,
which is everything that you're doing,
which is incredible.
You need to get your kids out of the system
and start transformation at home.
And so I would say in a nutshell, his books
teach that children who are just like us

(08:09):
are innately driven to learn.
They are innately designed to want to learn
more, to be curious, and if left alone
enough, they will do those things.
They will do the research, they will do the
work to satisfy those curiosities, instead
of having an adult tell you what to do all
day.

(08:30):
So my big shift went from dabbling in
homeschooling.
That sounds interesting to.
John Holt just blew me away.
And what is this unschooling?
So when I started, I started homeschooling
15 years ago.
Yes, there were other homeschoolers, but I
did not fit in.
Once I got on the John Holt train, there
was nobody doing it.

(08:51):
I had been.
I started blogging about 14 years ago and
my blog was called the Sleepy Time Gal.
I blogged every morning and I started to
document how I was taking what was just a
principle about child led learning and
unschooling from John Holt and I was trying
to make it systematized in our home and so

(09:12):
I blogged every day about what that looked
like in our home.
The more I started to do that, it began to
build momentum and there was really just
this fire within me that I just thought
this feels so right for my kids.
And if I can just do a little plug for one
of my favorite books, peter Gray's Free to
Learn phenomenal book, I had already chosen

(09:36):
to homeschool and unschool by the time he
wrote that book.
But that book propelled what I already saw
happening with my own kids my five, six,
seven, eight year old.
Whatever they were doing in giving them the
unstructured time, giving them the
resources, the tools, acting more like a
mentor and we can talk more about that in a

(09:57):
minute but just beginning to do those
things.
That really held me up.
I mean, peter Gray has no idea.
His book really sustained me because it was
a really lonely beginning.
For years and years Nobody was unschooling.
There was one blog that had quotations from
John Holt but I didn't see anybody doing it

(10:21):
and I didn't even fit into a lot of the
homeschooling groups.
Because it was like, well, what did you do
today and how are you doing on your testing?
And I would say, well, we don't do testing.
And so I felt like in the beginning it was
a very emotionally challenging time where I
just had to just cry on my husband's
shoulder and just say I feel so strongly

(10:43):
about this.
And, on a side note, reading the book Free
to Learn Out Loud to my Husband really
helped solidify his supporting of
homeschooling and unschooling, so that book
was really transformative.

Which actually and Dr Gray is actually
going to be coming on the podcast here in a
few weeks.

I know I'm very excited about that.
I wish there could be three of us and I
could just sit and listen to them.

Well, I might just have to have you.
Yeah, I think it's interesting too, because
when you say, oh, I unschool my kids,
people automatically, I think, go to.
Well, this is what I did at the beginning.
When I heard the term unschooling and child
love, learning, I'm like, oh, I imagine
Lord of the Flies with loincloths and I've

(11:26):
said this before, it's not Lord of the
Flies, it's more like Phineas and Ferb.
We're like what are we going to do today?
This is what we're going to build on these.
Exactly.
That's great.
But yet people still see it as the most
extreme form of homeschooling and
oftentimes we don't fit in with the typical.
I'm doing at school, at home, with my kids,

(11:47):
and what do I do?
Because they're fighting me and they don't
want to do math and they don't want to, you
know, and you're like well, how about you?
Let them do some of the things they like to
do?
Yeah, exactly, just rolling it out there.

Exactly Well, and I think you know, just
like I said, I blog for years about our
journey with unschooling and then that
turned into my Instagram account and just
hearing from women over the years the
things that they struggle with.
Everybody's biggest struggle is they freak
out.
Okay, I've pulled my child out of school.

(12:18):
Now what?
Now we need to do all these subjects and I
think I love.
I feel like in our homeschooling I've tried
to tie in a lot of eclectic principles that
I like from unschooling approaches.
I love a lot of things about Montessori,
which is raising an independent child.
There's a lot I love about Waldorf
education the creativity in the imagination

(12:40):
child.
There's a lot that I like about Charlotte
Mason.
But I just think of you know, charlotte
Mason, there are like 11 subjects you're
supposed to cover in a day.
If I were to wake up as somebody who likes
order and structure which is another myth
that if you unschool, that you're just
letting your kids sit around eating Bon
Bons and playing video games all day, that

(13:02):
does not happen in my home, and so I think
I would be totally stressed out if the
expectation was well, if you're choosing to
homeschool, you better be covering all the
subjects every day.
That is not how children learn and that is
not how we learn and grow.
You know, you and I, when we have time for

(13:22):
ourselves, we're working on a hobby.
We're not saying, okay, we're gonna take 10
minutes to put into dinner and then 10
minutes to garden and 10 minutes to rake.
No, that's not life.
So one of the things I loved about the
whole approach to child-led learning and
the way that I'm trying to raise my kids
and I really see the fruits of it is that

(13:43):
we are training our kids that life is to be
lived, it's to be enjoyed.
There is so many incredible things to learn
and discover.
You know.
Get outdoors, go on adventures, get to know
where you live.
Okay, we're back home.
What are the books that are fascinating to
you?
Let's read those.
What are the subjects that you're into so
like?
Right now I have a 16 year old who knows

(14:06):
everything about the Civil War.
She's taught herself.
Her birthday wish in the last two years is
for us to go up to Pennsylvania, to go to
Gettysburg.
I mean, that's her wish.
It's not to go to the mall, it's not.
You know, can you get me these new,
whatever shoes or whatever it's?
Can we go to Gettysburg and for that child,
since she was five years old.
When she was five years old, she asked for

(14:27):
an Abraham Lincoln book and that kind of
set it off.
And so when I look at her development over
the years, I have given her that freedom.
She knows that I trust her.
I check in.
We have plenty of accountability so that I
can say hey, how are you doing on that
project?
What do you need from me?
You know, do you need more books at the

(14:48):
library?
Whatever it is, is there a course you want
to start online?
But my sole role in this childhood,
childhood learning, is to be the helper and
to be the mentor, but to let her have the
wings to fly.
It's not for me to say, okay, it's American
history time, everybody get your textbooks.
I'm gonna bore you to death so that you

(15:08):
never want to learn about this.

You know, and so it's been exactly.

So.
It's been her transformation and so she
spends literally hours a day learning and
she's really into military history.
Actually that's kind of become her niche
over the years and so it's really amazing
and you know it's like many other
homeschoolers when you're with an adult and

(15:34):
you're talking about something, my teenager
and I know yours too, janae can have a full
conversation with adult because they
haven't had that restriction of public
school and they haven't been taught from
the public school system.
Well, you're quiet until somebody asks you
to talk, and you just need to be quiet all
day with kids at your age.
So, going back to my point a couple of
minutes ago, what I saw in childhood

(15:56):
learning and unschooling is blessing my
kids with the benefit of seeing real life
experiences, having real life skills and
responsibilities and, through that, having
incredible confidence, having
accountability, learning to have habits to
live a good life, health habits, knowing

(16:18):
how to read a book, knowing how to obtain
information when they're interested about
something, how to set a goal, how to fry an
egg whatever it is but giving my kids
skills at a younger age for real happiness
and for real thriving.
If you look statistically at the high
schoolers that we're graduating in our
country.
It is absolutely pathetic and the scores
are getting worse and worse.

(16:39):
And I'm not even talking about academics
because, frankly, watching society and how
kids are in school and who they're becoming
when they leave, I could care less about
academics.
Kids aren't even doing well with academics
in high school.
They don't have social skills, they don't
know what they're gonna do with their life.
They have no skills for living a
well-framed life moving forward.

(17:00):
So I think that's one of the beauties of
this unschooling approach is real life.
And you're going on a trip.
You plan the trip with your family.
You assign the teenager hey, why don't you
look into the places that we wanna stop?
These are the places that we're gonna be
going.
That's your assignment.
You give the 10 year old this job.
Hey, why don't you take care of these
things?

(17:20):
It's saying we are doing life together as a
family and you better believe that this is
gonna be the most incredible 18 years of
your life.
We're doing it together.
When there's something hard, we're gonna
work through it together.
When there's a challenge, we come together,
we talk about it.
We're gonna teach you skills for dealing
with stress.
We're gonna teach you skills for saving
money for something that you wanna do.

(17:40):
We're starting a business.
It's saying there's very little that I
frankly believe that is good.
Coming out of public school, I mean, and,
jenae, when you and I were in school it was
like I went to school, I turned out fine,
right.
You can't use that excuse nowadays at all.
If you were to see the messages I get from
women 20, 30 a day kids exposed to terrible

(18:04):
things in third grade, I mean I can tell
you there are so many people that I know of
who, all around the country, whose kids are
going to therapy just to get through the
day at high school.
So that's when I would say there's a red
flag.
Yes, if you don't make a change, then

(18:24):
you're setting your child up for a lot of
healing through their adult years.

Well, and I think it's interesting, my
daughter, katie, who's 15, went to a
birthday party of her friends from public
school and she came home and she said, mom,
I was the only person at the party who's
not on anxiety and depression medication
and not seeing a therapist, oh my gosh, you
know.
And I was like, are you?
You're 15, you know, like, are you kidding

(18:50):
me?
But one thing, too, that I wanted to bring
up because, well, a couple of things.
First, when I met your kids, like I, you
know, I've seen them on Instagram and I
thought, oh, they'd probably like, like,
they're a lot like my kids and there's
still this, this sweetness and this
innocence about them Not naive, they're not

(19:10):
naive, but there's this just the sweetness.
But when I met them, yeah, they full on,
have adult conversations and they were
weird.
And I think we think that, oh, if we
homeschool, if our kids spend a lot of time
with the family, that they're going to be
weird.
But the reality is, have you met the
parents?

Like, look at how the parents are Exactly
right, right, right.
Well, that's funny.
You bring that up, jenae.
Just one quick thing.
This is a theory that I figured out years
ago, jenae.
I can think of odd people that homeschool.
I can think of odd families that go to
public schools.
So what you're saying is true, and I don't
mean that in an unkind way, but I have seen

(19:48):
both sides and a lot of it is just like
it's parents, you know, like we have an
influence.
There are plenty of silly things that my
kids get from me and they get from their
dad, and so I think there is this incorrect
stereotype that homeschoolers are odd, and
I think that we don't even think to
consider the odd kids that public school.

(20:10):
I could list about 30 people in my mind
that I think are kind of odd, that go to
public schools.
So it's like that doesn't work anymore.

That doesn't work anymore, right well, and
especially nowadays.
Anyway, I won't, I won't, not gonna go down
the not gonna go down the avenue with some
of the stuff that the high school in our
high schools in our district you're dealing
with here in Colorado but yes yeah, and
then the other thing is, as you mentioned,
like they're not leaving school prepared.

(20:40):
Oregon, just yesterday, I saw just passed a
bill that kids can leave high school
without having the basic fundamentals that
they don't need reading, writing, math to
graduate.

What are they doing in school?

Probably learning politics.

Yeah, are we on this, Whatever the agenda
is right there, yeah, yeah.

Whatever that school or teacher's agenda is
in the classroom.
But so it's interesting, because I hear
that all the time.
Well, aren't you worried that that they're
not gonna be prepared for life?
Well, aren't you worried that in the system
that's already broken, that they're not
gonna be prepared for life?
When these kids are coming out, Not even
they're going.
I need to go to college, but I have no idea

(21:28):
what I'm gonna do with my life and I'm
about to drop several grand to figure it
out when we can help them younger to to not
throw things out.

I totally agree.

So what?
What would you?
How would you describe like you're a day in
the life in the Schifler home?
What does that look like?

Yeah.
So one of the things that I kind of figured
out some years into our our homeschooling,
unschooling journey is that there were some
like pillars that were essential for me.
So, from everything that I had read, and
once again I started homeschooling just
based on like philosophies.

(22:08):
Yeah, you know, I wasn't doing like the
Charlotte Mason thing or like where it
tells me like everything to do, where I
don't have to think for myself, and so I
was trying to like take the philosophies of
like a lot of unstructured play time, a lot
of unstructured time to explore and to
interest that my kids were into.
And so, just with experimenting, I kind of

(22:29):
developed something that we do now and I
actually help moms with as well in my
coaching program.
But so what I like to do is we start our
morning with their daily habits.
So we say, my husband and I say what you
know over the years, what are the things
that we think are most important for our
kids?
And I'm not just talking about academics
Once again, that's, we have this terrible

(22:51):
brainwashing that, like public school
provides everything our kids need, which is
honestly couldn't be further from the truth,
right, right.
So we say what are real life habits of,
like health, mental health, emotional
health, physical health, intellectual
health.
What are the core things that we see that
are really important for our kids from the
ages seven to 18?

(23:14):
And let's build those into their morning
habits.
Because, heck, like my husband and I set
ourselves up, we try to have that same
discipline for our kids to emulate, which
is we get up early, we do something, you
know, physical.
We just moved to Naples to have more
sunshine time, so it's like we have that
expectation.
We get outside in the sun every morning
writing in a journal, whatever it is.

(23:34):
So we have a handful of things that we do
for our my kids do, for their daily habits.
And I would add, in those daily habits we
also include the core academic things that
are basic things that we do want our kids
to have before they leave the house, and so
we plug in a couple of those.
We might rotate them through the year.
So one might be to do a little bit of math,

(23:57):
and we're really not strict with math.
We could talk about that later.
I have a very strong opinion about that.

Or we'll talk about that in a few minutes.

Yes.
So we want our kids to be good at writing.
So they have writing each day.
So they're either doing a journal, they
might have a journal prompt, they might be
doing practice, cursive, whatever it is.
So they have a little bit of habits that
they do and then the goal is we know this
statistically you have the best energy
focus first thing in the morning.
So we have those habits set in the morning.

(24:27):
We've done this for years.
My older kids get up, they can just dive
right in it.
They might make like some herbal tea.
They sit in our art room, which is our
homeschooling room, and they just start
working on whatever their habits are.
It might be to study their scriptures, to
whatever it is.
I know that my kids have been wanting to
keep doing studying the language.
So I've got a daughter learning French, one

(24:47):
daughter learning Spanish, one daughter
teaching herself Hindi.
So they're all doing that in the morning.
My younger kids have a more modified habit
tracker of just starting their day, getting
ready, going for bike ride, blah, blah,
blah.
But once again, I am teaching them
responsibility Start strong with your day,
get some physical exercise, et cetera.
Now, once their habits are done, done, then

(25:10):
pretty much they are completely free to
live their life the rest of the day.
So, as they're younger, I am there more of
the time to say and I've been doing this
for so long I could tell you like 10 things
that each of my kids are into.
So I know what they're into.
So during the day they might jump in on

(25:30):
work on a project that they've been working
on.
So, for example, for my teenagers, right
now, as we're doing this, my daughters are
working on.
I've got a daughter that's really
interested in cephalopods, and so she's
been researching that, illustrating them.
She's got a couple of websites she's been
referring to.
She's got a stack of books she got from the
library and she's literally on her own

(25:52):
studying that and is self-propelling
herself because she's motivated by it.
So that's happening right now.
My younger kids might need a little bit of
help as they're exploring a topic, but
guess what?
For my younger kids, there's really play
going on.
There's so much learning and growth going
on, as Peter Gray talks about in his book.
That is where kids get to practice what
they see.

(26:12):
That's when I watch my five-year-old
cooking in her bedroom, in her play kitchen,
because she sees me do that.
Or when she's pretending to read because
she sees her siblings do it.
So that play is essential for our young
kids.
So really, their day is open to that
unstructured time.
The cool thing is, as you follow this style

(26:34):
of homeschooling, this child-led learning,
as they're getting older and they have the
skills for reading, they have the skills
for writing.
I like to teach my kids how to research
safely online.
They have tons of.
We get about 70 books a week from the
library that they're using in their, in
their personally designed studies.
As you're teaching them skills.
You know, teach a man to fish instead of

(26:54):
fishing for him.
I am teaching them the skills to know how
to solve problems, to how to you know
research something.
Then, around their tween years, they are on
autopilot.
So all of my older kids, I have identical
twins that are 14 and then a daughter
that's 16.
Those three kids are my teens that are home
right now, and so they are literally on

(27:17):
autopilot.
I trust them, I check in with them.
Often they have their own planner and they
have literally mapped out the day.
Okay, today I'm going to learn this.
You know, I'm gonna be outlining the
alphabet in Hindi.
I'm also gonna be learning more about
Indian history and so they have literally
mapped out the day.
I'm gonna have an hour of reading I'm gonna

(27:38):
have.
So.
My one daughter is into like Western.
She's reading like a Louis McMorris book.
She is learning all about all the
equestrian things.
So my older girls because I started them on
this path years ago they are just literally
doing their own thing all day and they have
parameters for themselves.
We talk about this.
We have a lot of trust in our family.

(28:00):
They know reputable sites to use for
research and then we try to do
accountability things.
We do like a return and report each week or
every couple weeks, where we all come
together, including the parents.
Remember, they are.
This is a family experience.
It's not well, you guys do your schooling
and then we don't have any discipline.
It's about teaching and modeling that
behavior.
So we will come together regularly.

(28:21):
We call it return and report.
Everybody comes and shares the things that
they're learning.
They might bring a stack of books that
they've read and facts that they've learned.
They might come and show us something that
they've built.
For my boys that are building or learning
car engineering, they might share what
they're learning.
So, once again, that's just another little
nod to accountability.
But my older kids are very much on

(28:43):
autopilot during the day.
Like I said, they plan out their day and
then for my younger kids, we spend hours
reading piles of books.
So my seven-year-old is really into the
Titanic.
He's really into ships.
My other son, who is just turned 11, is
dyslexic.
He and I I read a lot of books to him and

(29:06):
then I help them with what we call project
time.
So whatever they're interested in, we try
to get like a blank book so that they can
take notes of things that they're learning,
they can illustrate it, they can build
projects off of that.
But I would say that was a lot of
information.
I guess what I would say is it's beautiful,
though.
Oh good, okay, well, I feel like I get.
I get really excited.

(29:27):
So I try to keep that day as untouched for
them as possible.
So I kind of just watch my kids as they're
getting older.
My younger kids do a lot of playing.
Once their habits are done, my older kids
are ready to take the skills that they have
of reading and writing and they turn a lot
of things that they're also learning into
art, into starting a business.

(29:49):
I mean, there's so many things that my kids
have done because they had that time, they
didn't have pressure, they didn't have the
parent over them telling them exactly what
to do.
And then I would say, the last step of our
day so daily habits, project time is that
independent learning that my kids kind of
run on their own or I can help them with.

(30:09):
And then the third aspect we call clubs.
So that is anything that I want to do with
my kids.
Once again, I love this about child blood
learning is I don't have to copy public
school, and that would like kill my joy,
honestly.
Yeah, and so if there's something I want to
do, exactly so, if there's something I want
to teach my kids, if there's something I

(30:29):
want to do with my kids, or if there's a
topic that one or more of my kids are
already into, we will turn it into a club.
So what that means is in our week if you
were to look at our weekly schedule we have
my girls and I have decided to do a history
club.
We do that Monday afternoons.
My teenage girls just pile in my room and I

(30:50):
literally read history books and then they,
on their own, will pick a topic and then
explore it, and then they'll share it for
the next return on report.
I'm not quizzing them, we're not doing
crafts on it, like they spend hours doing
their own research.
They spend hours doing their own projects.
That we're just going to get to the meat of
what they want, which we all really love
history.

(31:11):
I have a club with my younger kids.
We're doing all of the little house on the
prairie books and we're doing some projects
with that and we're learning about Native
Americans and we're learning about, you
know, geography.
But it's something that we all wanted to do
together.
So if there is a topic like that, we do it
together.
And then my last example is I step away,
usually on Friday mornings, to work on my

(31:32):
business, and so my husband takes over on
mornings, and so we had a family meeting
and said what things do you guys want to do
with daddy?
And you know daddy, what are you doing with
the kids?
And so they made a list of clubs.
So he does a music theory class, because my
girls want to know music theory.
They do an American heritage class and then
they do a research class where they're all

(31:53):
going to like research a topic and then
like share it together.
So the sky is the limit with this style and
I love it because it maintains that light
in our kids eyes.
That's the one thing that breaks my heart
the most is working with moms that they
watched and raised their beautiful child up

(32:13):
through those you know the years up until
first grade and then they send their child
to school and that light has gone from
their child's eyes.
You know they can't move, they can't play,
they have to.
The teacher talks about getting them on a
medication so they can sit through.
Class.
Resources get shorter.
They're pulling the arts out of school.
It's like how much joy can you suck out of

(32:34):
our kids lives?
Really as much as possible is the objective.

Well, and I hear that from so many of the
moms that I work with is when my daughter.
You know, I talked to this one mom earlier
this week and she said when my daughter
started school, almost immediately the
light went out of her eyes and she used
that, that exact same term.
And now she's 13 and she's like, and I'm
trying, I'm trying to rekindle the flame in

(33:02):
her and it's been so hard because, you know,
her self-esteem is broken, Her desire to
learn is broken.
She doesn't even know what she likes, you
know, and it just breaks these kids and so,
and when I met, when I met your kids, like
they were full of fire and opinions, you

(33:22):
know that was one thing, that surprised me
when we moved towards unschooling is how
opinionated my kids would get about things
that they liked.
Right, right, but I loved it.
The other thing that intrigued me when I
met your kids was when you when they showed
me their bear books.
And so for those of y'all who don't know
what bear books are, they're just literally

(33:43):
blank books and it's a company that sells
them is called Bear, and that they're blank
white books and you can fill them up and
the art of your kids like it.
It looked like professional artists had
done it and and there they had you've
written all these descriptions of you know
the Greek gods and goddesses and you know

(34:03):
everything about Greece, and I was.
I was blown away.
And then your boys' bear books that were
filled with cars and everything that there
you know is to know about all these
different cars and my like I, just my
husband was like holy cow.
This is unbelievable, you know, and so that
was something that just astounded it, like

(34:24):
it astounded me at how gifted like your
kids had become because you gave them the
time to just to just be and do.

I love that.
Well, it's interesting, janay, because I
did a live back in February when my
daughter had graduated herself and I kind
of talked about her journey and I had done
some research online about what happens to
people that choose the unschooling path.

(34:57):
You know, kids that were unschooled,
childhood learning all that what happens
when they're 18, 19, 20, 30, 40 and I found
some unbelievable things.
If okay, so if you just back up, I always
tell my kids you're so lucky, like if I
could have not been in school and had this
freedom To get really good at the things

(35:18):
that I loved, I just can't imagine my life
and so, hearing you talk about my kids,
which is really sweet.
I know for you, janae, that your kids are
the same, in that you are giving them that
trust and that freedom and saying what do
you need for me?
I'm here to support you.
And I think when you do that, janae and it
is so hard for people to understand this

(35:40):
because how have we been trained?
We've been trained that we are gonna take
your child, we're gonna put them in public
school.
You have no control, we are gonna decide
what they're learning and and then we're
gonna spit them out when they're 18, yeah.
So this, I, this notion of child-led
learning, which is we actually trust you as
a child, that you have interest and we're

(36:02):
gonna help you discover your interests.
And yes, for those of you that are
listening to this podcast, that have your
kids in this in the school system, or
you've just pulled them out and you're
wanting that light to return their eyes,
you, I can promise you that it can return.
It's gonna take some work, but it comes
from Introducing to your child what was
robbed from them when they went to public

(36:23):
school, which is trust, trust, trust, trust.
The public school model.
Once again, this doesn't have to do with
teachers.
I know teachers do their best in the system.
The public school model tells to children
we don't trust you, we have to tell you
everything to do, so much so that you have
to raise your hand to use the bathroom, but

(36:44):
we know best and you are not smart enough,
old enough, whatever it is, to have any
decision-making in your life.
So, if you can break down all those
limiting beliefs which I definitely had to
do when I started on my homeschooling, my
unschooling journey, the philosophy of
unschooling was just like there was just
this fire within me and I didn't know how

(37:05):
to do it, but, like every day, I just had
to like listen to.
It was really like everything that was the
opposite of what my public school
experience was, which was okay, I'm gonna
give them time, I'm gonna give them real
tools, like real art supplies, and I'm
gonna get them a real professional
whittling set and I'm gonna get them a real
axe, because they want to learn how to cut
wood, and so I'm gonna do all these things

(37:27):
that popular society says what are you
doing?
And Doing that?
And looking back 15 years to where we are
now, back to what you were saying, janae,
children that are raised in a child led
learning environment become experts in
multiple things because they were trusted,
because they have the tools and and number

(37:49):
and, really, thirdly, because they have
that time.
So my oldest daughter, who is at college
now, you know, I just think of her
experience.
She was like my experiment.
I remember years into this thinking like I
really might be ruining my daughter, but,
janae, like that motherly intuition is so
powerful, I just felt like, no, you got to

(38:09):
keep doing this, you've got to find a way
to make this approach work.
Like it feels right, and so I stayed on
that journey, when I look at her life, when
I look at her interest in Music so she can
play the piano by ear.
She never learned Fully how to read music,
so she would start to play our piano by ear.
She started to compose music.

(38:29):
So one year, once again going back to,
instead of just like getting her clothes
for Christmas, my kids are gifted real
tools at Christmas and birthday.
So one Christmas we gifted her a real MIDI
keyboard and like earphones and she had
like real music composition software and
this was like when she was 14.
She had the interest and taught herself how

(38:51):
to play guitar from some computer app.
So then she started to take these courses
online.
There's a great program online program
called Coursera and it has great accredited,
like college courses that you can take, you
know, when you're not in college.
So she's taking all these classes, from
psychology to philosophy.
She starts taking music theory classes at

(39:13):
14 and 15 and so she starts to get really
good at composing music.
So, fast forward, the day before she flew
away from our house to go to college out
west, she released her first song that she
wrote and composed and it was released on
Spotify.

(39:34):
And when I that moment was just it was like
everything had come together, like all of
my fears from like 15 years ago that maybe
I'm ruining her, maybe I should put her on
the bus, maybe I should do what all the
other homeschooling moms are doing, even
and just stay on that path, that like that
secure path, like maybe if I do that then
she'll turn out, but guess what?

(39:55):
She will turn out like everybody else and
maybe I don't want that.
And so when I when I heard and she sent me
and my husband a text when she had just
released this song and it was just all
those years had come together and I just
thought we did it, like we followed our
heart.
That sounds so cliche, but we followed what
felt so right that our kids will show up

(40:18):
when we trust them.
Our kids want to take responsibility of
their lives.
They don't want to sit and have us tell
them what to do all day, and when we give
them those tools and that freedom, in that
time, they do tremendous things.
I have four kids from the ages of 14 to 18
that all have their own online business.
They are experts in their own field and

(40:41):
they know things that I don't know, and
it's because that trust had to happen, and
I really had to break down all those
limiting beliefs of what school had to look
like.
And my last thing, janay, is that With this
approach to life, you have so much more fun
because you're living life.
If we go on road trips all the time, we say,
oh, you know what, there's something better

(41:03):
going on.
Today, we're gonna skip any of our plans
that we had, and so it's teaching our kids
to be flexible and to just see the
incredible opportunities as they come.

I love that well, and I want to include the
link to below in the show notes of your
daughter's song because it is so beautiful
it is so thanks, janay.
So I heard it and it made me like I teared
up.
And it's just not even my daughter.
I don't, I don't.
I met her once you know I'm like so and

(41:35):
talk to me, because a lot of I hear a lot
of parents go yeah, but they'll never get
into college if they choose their own path.
But yet here.

Here you are, yeah, so that's a really good
point and and I would say I had that public
school mentality for like so many years
when I started this like this feels right,
like my kids are all like thriving and
progressing and they know how to do all
these life skills and things are great.
But then in the back of my mind I'm like,
oh yeah, but what if?
But what if they can't?

(42:06):
They don't know calculus when they're 18,
or what if they can't get into college?
So that was like a real fear, and so I did
do my homework, janay, and so I think one
of the things that I tell moms is, if your
child wants to get into college and I will
say a little disclaimer Follow any of the
most successful people in the world.
And right now they're saying and it's

(42:27):
increasing you don't have to have college
If you want to be a doctor.
Of course, if you want to do this and that
and I understand that, there's a place for
that but we live in a day and age where you
can learn, you can become an expert.
Like Elon Musk Pretty much has said in some
different Conversations online I don't care
if you have a high school diploma, I don't

(42:47):
care if you go to college.
If you know what I need you to know to work
for me, I will hire you, and I love that we
have the world-wide web, that you can
become an expert in anything.
So Anyway, going back to the college fear
that I think a lot of people have.
So for my daughter, I knew she would.
She had this dream university.
She wanted to go to and, and.

(43:10):
So because of that, at like a young age,
around the age of 14, and like every year,
I would call the university and say we
homeschool.
We homeschool a very unique way.
I don't think that they don't even know
what unschooling is.
I'm not even gonna like bore them, but I
say you know, my kids put a lot of times
into the things that they're really into

(43:30):
and and I would kind of explain how we do
things.
And so I would just call regularly and say
what is it that you're looking for?
Like, and I will say to your audience Most
universities have a homeschooling expert in
their admissions, so you can call them and
I.
That's just a very liberating thing.
The second thing One of the blessings from

(43:52):
COVID is that a lot of schools have opened
up their eyes to SAT, act.
What are they good for?
Like nothing.
I did great.
Yeah, I got good grades in high school.
I just did what I was told Horrible on the
ACT.
So it's like why are we doing this?
Plus, I really disagree with like testing.

It's like Nowhere is it emulated in the
real world.

So like I don't make my kids do testing
anyway, so that was the other thing I found
out.
Yes.
So the second thing that's really great for
parents to know is call your university,
talk to the homeschooling specialist.
They are you a university that requires SAT
ACT and so, thankfully for my daughter, for
a while they had expected it, and so I'm

(44:35):
like, okay, we're gonna have to do this.
But because of COVID and I think a lot of
people in the country couldn't get to
testing centers or whatever a Lot of
schools have dropped that, which I think is
great.
I do anyway, so that's great.
So they that her university dropped that,
and so I said, okay, what does she need?
And then I said, based on the fact that she
is really smart in all the things that

(44:56):
she's done, she's very independent, all
these different things what are you looking
for?
What are you looking for for an unschool, a
homeschooler that's applying to your
university?
And so for her particular school, it was
either this many hours of an accredited
high school which I was like I really don't
want to do that or Not happen.

(45:17):
Yeah, the path which I recommend to a lot
of parents, which is a lot of schools say,
or they can have 24 credit hours at it and
accredited college.
So I was like, we'll do that.
I would much rather you have credit and be
doing higher level classes In the things
that you want to learn anyway.
So for that daughter, she'd already done

(45:37):
two years Taking any of the classes that
you want through the app I told you called
Coursera.
It's about $200 a year.
It's brilliant.
So she was able to start taking classes.
You know, I sure getting older and you're
wanting more meat and she's once again
designing her whole day.
She was interested in the arts, history,
philosophy, she taught herself some Latin,

(45:58):
all of those things she got from Coursera.
So then she's 16 and we're like okay, let's
start this 24 Hours so that you can apply
to your school.
So I will never forget the night that we
were living in Virginia.
It was like nine o'clock at night or
younger kids were in bed and she's so
responsible.
I mean like we've raised her to like hey,

(46:18):
let me know if you need my help, but like
she gets her own job.
She does all these own things on her own.
Once again, something that it's lost in our
society right now with our youth, is that
initiative.
And so she came into our room.
She had her laptop and she's like okay, I
just wrote my, what is it called?
You have to turn in to the application or
the, the essay, no, the, I can't think of

(46:42):
the word.
Okay, transcript Okay, okay.
She's never taken high school classes.
She hasn't done any of that.
She's taken like one standardized test that
she had to when we lived in Pennsylvania
and I was pretty much like I don't care how
you do on it, just do it.
And so this was just this cool moment.
She was 16.
She comes in a room.
She's like I just wrote my whole transcript.

(47:02):
So she wrote her own transcript.
It wasn't me, she had taken all of her own
studies that she had curated herself.
So she had been studying so many topics on
her own from textbooks, online courses etc.
So she plugs in, which is a real thing you
guys can do, especially if you're doing
child-led learning or unschooling.
She wrote her own transcript.

(47:23):
There are lots of guides online that kind
of tell you like okay, and it was this many
credit hours and she just applied how many
months she'd been doing it her years.
So she writes her old transcript.
It's the first time I've seen it, which is
very much like her.
She's done all the work and so she
literally had my husband sign it.
So we literally Graduated her in five
minutes.
She had self curated her whole education

(47:46):
and then the next day started a community
college, nova, which is like northern
Virginia, cuny Me College.
She started that the next day as a 16 year
old, did her 24 credit hours.
And this is what's really cool and once
again I share this because it's not
bragging.
This is Essential for you to know that the
public school system is broken enough to

(48:09):
think that this can't happen.
So my daughter did the 24 credit hours,
having never taken a class in a classroom,
never Done any of those things, and got on
the Dean's list.
So what does that tell me?
It goes back to the core principle of
child-led learning, which is, when a child

(48:29):
or a teenager wants it badly enough,
they're no different than us as adults.
They will do what it takes.
So for my daughter to get on the Dean's
list, she had to look up and write, learn
how to write a bibliography.
She had to go online and find out how to
write like a 10-page paper.
So that's what's fascinating to me with
this whole approach Is when your kid wants

(48:51):
something badly enough, they do the work.
She never even came to me and said well,
how do I do this?
So that's what.

I heard about this.

Yeah, she figured it out, so she so.
Then she applied to her dream school, got
in and it's actually it's a really hard
school to get into, but it's actually
harder to get in as a transfer student and
she got in.
So it was a really special moment, honestly,
janay, because I felt like I Couldn't take

(49:19):
any of the credit like she had done the
work.
This whole approach to homeschooling is
Saying you as the child or in the driver's
seat, what do you want for your life?
And one of the coolest things, janay, when
I talk to her every day, is that she is on
fire there when I went off to college.
I'm trying to figure out.

(49:40):
I have to cook for myself now and I have to
do my own laundry, and then I have to do
college classes and everybody else is
staying up late.
What do I do?
That's what's fascinating.
She's like oh my gosh, the coolest part,
I'm keeping up on all my classes.
But the coolest part, she's like, is I'm
involved in all the entrepreneurial clubs
and there's an entrepreneurial women's club

(50:01):
and I've met all these business owners and
I talk to them afterwards.
So once again, it goes back to we are
designed as human beings to have this
curiosity and this fire within us.
So why is it any different for our eight
year old or our 16 year old?
They have this fire within them to learn

(50:22):
more, to do more, to become something.
They have this fire in them that says if I
want this badly enough, I will discipline
my day.
My 14 year old twins have an Etsy shop.
They make these beautiful, masterful
tapestries.
They taught themselves so beautiful From
watching a couple YouTube channels and so
because of that, they discipline themselves

(50:45):
on their day and they like fit time into
their day to do that and they're starting a
business with that, to like teach youth how
to do it.
So it just goes back to that principle and
sharing about my daughter getting into
college that as we keep that fire within
our children, they will flourish and I can
promise you they will flourish beyond what

(51:06):
you can even imagine as their parent.

Well, I think the coolest thing, too, is
that, like she took the initiative on her
own, you as a parent gave her all those
tools all those years growing up, and then
she steps into adulthood naturally on her
own, not going oh my gosh, now I'm 18, now
I'm on my own and now I have to fit, like
it was the very natural thing that happened

(51:31):
prior to public school anyway, which is
what they used to do, like guiding them
into adulthood, which I think is so
beautiful.
Let's talk about math.
Go ahead, go ahead.

Well, no, I was just gonna add one thing
with what you were saying, which I love
about homeschooling, and then taking it one
more step I love about that child-learn,
child-led learning approach, which is I
refuse to do all the housework and let them
do all the fun, and for them fun is
learning.
And so that's one of the other things that
I've tied into our home life where we work

(52:08):
together.
Like, at a certain age my kids do their own
laundry.
At a certain age my child takes over the
whole kitchen.
So at a young age they know how to cook,
they know how to do things, so kind of fast
forwarding.
So when my daughter went off to college,
she knew how to do all that and that was
one of the things she was actually the most
excited about was cooking for herself.
So that's the beauty of homeschooling is

(52:28):
you get to call the shots, you get to
create this vivid vision of what would our
ideal life look like If I could push all of
the preconceived notions of what public
school is.
Maybe you do your homeschooling like all in
the afternoon and the evening, maybe you've
just had a baby and you do your
homeschooling in the evening with your kids
and you're out having an adventure every
day.
I love that about the freedom you have in

(52:50):
homeschooling.
I do too.

I love that.

Let's switch gears a little bit and talk
about math, math, math.

Yes, and I did an episode just on math
because I'm like do we really need algebra
to survive?
I even put it on Facebook.
I'm like tell me anybody out there, when
have you used geometry, algebra, two
calculus?
And people are like I use it here and I'm
like no, the computer uses it there.

Yeah, exactly.

You just type in the number right.
Let's talk about math and what you do for
math, what that looks like in your
philosophies on math.

Yeah, I love that topic.
So I think, like you were saying, the
bigger picture is what are the fields that
require math?
If you need tons of math, then that makes
sense, so.
But if you don't need that, if your child
isn't going to be an engineer or whatever
it is and that child doesn't necessarily

(53:50):
need that advanced math, then you might
want to do something like my husband and I
did early on when we started this approach,
and it was really just a philosophy that I
kind of put legs under the table of that
philosophy.
My husband and I had this talk because I
was pretty much like I refuse to live this
philosophy of homeschooling, of unschooling,
in trusting my child and giving them the

(54:10):
wings to fly and then feeling the stress
that like we have this beautiful day and
then like there's this stress at like five
o'clock every evening we've got to do math
and so what we did?
is we just yes, yeah, and so we just
decided early on because we talk a lot
together as a family, and so we had a
conversation.

(54:30):
My husband and I had a conversation first
and then we talked to our kids.
But the conversation we had was okay, let's
dissect our lives as adults.
What is the math that we use every day?
I pretty much use math and baking.
I use my calculator and my phone a ton.
I use math when I sew.
I use math a couple places, right, and so

(54:51):
that was our decision.
It was like if we are living this, raising
our kids with this philosophy that learning
is to be desired and we're going to give
you that freedom, then we want our kids to
have a certain amount of math to get
through life.
Right, we have a lot of math, but beyond
that we don't care, and so that's what our
kids know.
Like we are not strict about doing math

(55:13):
every day.
I talk about this on my coaching calls,
which is, I think, really good for moms to
hear.
We go through seasons where we haven't done
math for months and months, and months, and
then we're like, okay, well, let's get back
and we'll do a little bit of math in the
morning I try to have my husband take that
over and he might do it with the teenagers
for a little bit and then do it with my
boys.
But what's the goal?
By the time they leave my house, they have

(55:35):
enough math that they need.
And when I look at my daughter, who's 18,
she has all the math she needs to get by.
She didn't put any time into advanced math.
She didn't need it.
She's probably doing music composition for
her major and so she had to pick a math
class at her university and it's so telling
what she picked, because it's so life

(55:57):
skills oriented, which is the way we raised
her, which is it's a family finance class,
and she's 18.
I love that.
So that tells me that we're making our kids
bored out of their minds, not only in
public school but even in the homeschooling
setting, by having these really crazy
expectations for what?
So that's what I would do if I were you and
you just started homeschooling decide what

(56:19):
math is important and then lower your
expectations.
If they have that math by the time they
leave the house, great.
And guess what?
If you have an annoying aunt or uncle that
like to quiz your child, just say you know
what we're really tired of it.
You can quiz them on a topic of their
interest Like, why don't you quiz my
daughter on every year during the Civil War
and she can tell you exactly what happened.

(56:41):
It's like let's get over this math
obsession, you know.
And then my last thing, janay, is if one of
my kids like I'm thinking my son, who's
getting really into car engineering and
there's actually a real car designer who I
love, we follow him on YouTube.
He designed the MIDI Cooper.
He designed all these cars that I know of,
since, like, I'm reading all the car books

(57:02):
with my boys, he just started a car
designing course and so we're gonna start
doing that.
So if he goes into that, if my son goes
down that path of needing that additional
math, I already told my kids if you need
advanced math that I don't have the brain
or even want to do with you, I will happily

(57:23):
pay a tutor to do that later in life.
And just one quick plug for that, janay, I
love this story.
There was an unschooler 10 years ago that
wanted to get into Juilliard.
He didn't have his math.
He was this incredible musician.
So his parents hired a math for three
months, janay.

Three months, he got his entire 12 years of
math Like story done, it's like I was just
saying I've heard several stories like that,
where it's like once they're ready, and if
they have to have it they find a reason to
do it, and then they're like, bam, it's
done.
Yes, exactly.

Yeah.
So if they need it, I told my kids we'll
hire somebody, you get three months, you'll
get all the math you need, you can get into
your university.
But and that's just a good reminder that
when the child's ready they soak in that
information so much better.
So that's my theory on math.
We do it off and on when it works and we're
doing just fine.
I do not obsess over it at all.

Which is great and I think, because I think
that's the one subject that most parents
coming out of the public school system are
like what do I have to teach?

I have.

My 11 year old is taking an algebra class
just because he likes it.

He's like can I please take an eye?
And I'm like sure.

But the other kids are like oh they don't
want to.
You know like you've got enough.
Like you know, my daughter did come home
she's working on a fix and flip with my
husband right now and they went to Lowe's
to pick up a bunch of stuff for the
contractors.
And she came home and she's like mom, I

(58:59):
just learned some stuff about decimals and
percentages that I don't ever remember
learning in public school and I'm sure I
must have, but it's really cool and I think
it's, and I'm like.
She's like do you know, if you take the
percent and then move it over twice, that's
the decimal I'm like right, right, yeah,
and she's like amazing, but and yet she
went to public school she learned that in

(59:20):
public school.

Because it was out of context.
Janae School is out of context.

And now that it's in context, she'll never
forget it Because she's like I was sitting
there cooking dinner.
She's like it was amazing.
I don't think I ever learned that you did,
but you didn't Because it didn't go into
long-term memories.
It doesn't matter anymore.
So I wanna talk a little bit about your
coaching program, because so I started the

(59:47):
coaching program, I think, right when you
first started out.

Yeah, you did.

I wanna get better at unschooling and
because and I was intrigued by the systems
because I again, where I live, there's not
a lot of unschoolers Lots of school at home,
lots of Charlotte Masoners, but not a lot
of unschoolers and so I was intrigued
because of the systems that you had in
place that I'm like beautiful, like in

(01:00:13):
family meetings and daily chef and things
like that that I was like, oh, I didn't
realize that could still is construed as
unschooling, unschooling is not just not
schooling, and they're free.

Nicole Shiffler (01:00:25):
Wild children on their own and loincloths
right.

Janae Daniels (01:00:28):
So playing video games literally all day
yeah, not happening.
Talk about how you started doing empowered
homeschooling and what that looks like and
why you started doing it and the results.
So lots of loaded questions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's good.
So, like I said before, I had started this
whole style of homeschool just because I
had read all the right books and I couldn't
push it away, janae.
I couldn't get it out of my mind.
It was like this sounds crazy and nobody
else is doing it, but like I have to do

(01:01:04):
this, and so I started it and I'm a super
organized, structured person and that's one
of the big myths about unschooling is, oh,
it's for the mom, that's just like you know,
watching soap operas all day.
I don't even know if they do soap operas
anymore.
I don't know binging on Netflix and her
kids are just like you know, like you were
saying, like watching video games.

(01:01:25):
And so there is this negative idea of
unschooling where it's like I don't even
know any unschoolers that are like this
negative, you know idea, but there's this
idea that it's so hands off, then how could
it benefit the child?
So I think that's all false, because if you
were to walk in my house and see our day

(01:01:46):
today, we have plenty of structure, because
I need structure and, frankly, kids need
structure, they need to rely on certain
things, they need to have certain things
set in motion to know how to show up, et
cetera.
And so years ago I kind of just started
organically systematizing what I thought
worked really well for us, and it was those

(01:02:08):
three things I talked about, you know, at
the daily habits, the project time, clubs,
kind of some of the core of our day.
And so I began systematizing that.
And then I just like I wanted to have an
experience with my family where they were
learning life skills now, compared to like
just waiting in there, you know, when

(01:02:28):
they're off on their own.
And so we really prioritize the family and
when there are issues or when there's
something to discuss, we come together and
have these family meetings regularly.
So there are lots of parts that I have
systematized.
So that was one of the reasons I started
this empowered homeschool coaching program
because, like I said, I have lots of moms

(01:02:49):
that reach out to me over the years how do
you do this and how do you do this?
And I get like 50 DMs a day.
And, janae, I have seven of my own kids and
I am not going to sacrifice having a fun
day with them to like spend an hour
answering them.
You know how exactly we live out our day
and how to implement this philosophy and
how to troubleshoot and all of those things,

(01:03:10):
and so that's why I started this program,
and so part of it, one part of it, is a
course, and so I go into detail how to do
really what we've been doing for 15 years.
But before we even do that, like the whole
first section is really breaking down all
your false beliefs, all your limiting
beliefs, all the things that are hurting

(01:03:30):
your homeschooling now because you were in
public school or because your kids were in
public school.
So it's breaking down those limiting
beliefs, recreating this beautiful,
exciting, thriving, vivid vision of what
you want, and then the steps on building
that, putting the structure in place and
then just building off of that, and so
that's what the program is.

(01:03:52):
And then there's also a community, which is
one of the things that I never had.
I did this approach and it was so hard.
I am a people person, I'm a very emotional
person and they were really rough, lonely
years, janae.
And now I see where we are.
We've got about 75 women in the group from

(01:04:13):
all around the world and they're even
coming in on our coaching calls every
Friday, from Australia and Spain and Mexico
and Puerto Rico, and it's so beautiful to
see women that are saying I want something
new, I want something better for my kids, I
want help with this, I want help
implementing it.
I'm afraid I don't feel like I have the
skills to do it and then coming together

(01:04:33):
and saying we're here for you.
We all want something better and we want to
raise kids that are empowered and that are
autonomous and independent and responsible.
So it's really a beautiful thing just
having that community with it.

Well, and one of the things that I've
appreciated, too, is even on the coaching
calls, because Nicole is my coach and so in
the, in the coaching calls that there is,
there is permission to be vulnerable and go.
This is one thing that was a real struggle
this week.
This was something you know, and having the

(01:05:09):
other mom say oh yeah, no, you're, you're
good, yes, and it's okay.
And here's some ideas you know, to help
with that, and that's something that I
think is so beautiful is, people can be
vulnerable and not be afraid of judgment.
Yeah, um, because if I can't talk to public
school parents about when I'm having my

(01:05:32):
struggles or doubts or things like that,
because they go well, you should put your
kids back in school and then you know like
it's so much talking to you, you know so,
and when I've loved they do.
They need that, that reassure.
We need that reassurance and that we're
doing okay and the, the, the.
The courses are beautiful, like all the.
The different modules are beautiful.

(01:05:54):
Oh thanks, shani, and they're aesthetically
beautiful too, Just on the side.
Thank you, I work hard on that.

Well, going back to what you were saying,
you know, with some of those coaching calls
and that vulnerability, I think, choosing
to homeschool.
I love meeting people that say they
homeschool, because I immediately connect
with them, I I can immediately read so many
things about them.
They're willing to do something outside the
box, they're willing to pull away from
mainstream.
And that is hard and it takes courage.

(01:06:18):
And so when somebody says that they
homeschool, I immediately just want to like,
hug them and say you can do this, and there
are people that have gone before.
There are so many ways to do it.
I just want to fill them with positivity.
And so, for any of your listeners that are
wanting to take that step, I just want to
remind you there are so many ways to do it,

(01:06:40):
but having that support group is essential.
And I just on our call um I guess it was a
couple of weeks ago somebody opened up how
they were feeling guilty that while they're
homeschooling and you know my whole program
is about doing this child led learning
approach and how that looks and what that
feels like and anyway, this wonderful woman,
megan, and our coaching was talking about

(01:07:02):
how they had this family business and for
two weeks she's got to like really hunker
down and get some business stuff done.
And she was feeling bad and so we talked
and there were other moms contributing and
saying this is the best thing that you can
give your kids in this example, and showing
that you're going to, you know, set them up
during the day with these activities, but
that they get to watch mommy for these next

(01:07:23):
couple of weeks, pull something beautiful
together and that they get to be a part of
this family business.
And so I love the flexibility of this style
of homeschooling so much that If you've
just had a baby, if you've just moved, you
totally adjust your homeschooling, you
lower your expectations and you continue to
thrive.

I love that, I love that and that's
empowered homeschooling, which I can
include in the show notes that people are
interested in learning more as well as
online.

It's just Nicole.
Yeah, it's just Nicole's coachingcom.
Yeah, oh, okay, awesome and.

I'll make sure to include that.
Any last thoughts before we wrap up.

I guess I would say for those of you that
are scared and you're afraid of the unknown
you will find more security and peace the
more you step out into the unknown.
Take that risk and just watch your kids
stepping into more trust and more freedom
and I can just promise you you are going to

(01:08:26):
start to live a happier life with your kids.
This is not just I homeschool for my kids.
I homeschool so that I can have the most
incredible 18 years with my kids.
Yeah, and so you get to be the author of
your one incredible life with your children.

I love that.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much for the encouragement and
taking the time out of your very busy day
and about to go on a trip tomorrow.

I know, jenae, I love you.

Thanks for having me on.
I love you back.
Thank you so much, and do you, mamas?
Keep going.
You got this.
We'll talk to you next week.
Thank you so much for listening and if you
like this podcast, please be sure to sign
up for our weekly newsletter at school to
homeschoolcom.
That's school to homeschoolcom.

(01:09:12):
Join our private Facebook group School to
Homeschool and follow me on Instagram
jenaydaniels.

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