June 24, 2024 • 33 mins
Effective communication is the cornerstone of leadership effectiveness. In today's episode, Kendall Berg chats with Ashley Crosby who delves into the significance of authenticity and effective communication within the workplace. Throughout the discussion, Ashley shares invaluable advice on how to prepare for meetings, enhance emotional awareness, build confidence in communication, and tailor strategies to different environments.
Ashley introduces the acronym PEP—Preparation, Emotional Awareness, and Presence—as a framework for improving communication. She emphasizes the importance of showing up to meetings well-prepared, reading the room accurately, and being fully present, whether in person or virtually.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hey, everybody. So excited about our guest. Today we are going to be talking about developing a communication style that's going to help get you noticed. And we're having this chat with Ashley Crosby. So Ashley left grad school during the great Recession. She rendered her MFA less useful than originally expected, but she landed job and tech for twelve years and then burned out like so many people we talked to on the podcast, so many people out there experiencing this, especially post pandemic. And she realized she needed to change. So now she's got real world experience. She's been a people manager, sport manager, product manager, and so she founded Authentic Narratives, which is a professional consulting business focused on bringing more integrity, purpose and humanity to the workplace. So really excited about our chat. Welcome, Ashley. It's awesome to have you on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Thanks, Kendall. I'm really excited. Yeah. So let's see. Authentic narratives launched last spring. And it's been a wonderful growing path for me because I've had to learn how to run a business, which has been really exciting. But what I left with, like you said, I'd hit that burnout point. I didn't really want to continue doing what I'd been doing. And I was like, what is it that's been missing? And I realized that there's just so many businesses that aren't catering or not catering, aren't thinking about being authentic with their coworkers and with the people that they work with every day. They do it with their clients, I think, or trying to do it with their clients, but then don't give the same courtesy to the people that are in their office every day.
(01:42):
And so that's what I've been focused on, is helping you be authentic and be real and be yourself, as well as nurturing companies to also create an environment that allows for you to be able to be that person.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I think that's awesome because I think what's interesting is I, you know, I have a specific niche. Mine is playing the corporate game and I think it gets a bad rep as being inauthentic. Right. Because there are so many politics at play. There's so much you can't say. There's certain ways to say things. How do you massage your language? And something that I talk about a lot with clients is it is better to be authentic, but be able to do it in a way that doesn't seem contrary to your coworkers. Right. I'm not a fan of inauthentic. I don't want you to suck up. I don't want you to pretend to be something you're not. But there are certain phrases we can use when we talk to certain people that help us get our points across a little more effectively.
(02:39):
But I think it's a good push because I recently had Teresa White on the podcast, and we talked about how the version of feedback you hear from your boss is often like the much watered down version of the real feedback. Like, you don't actually hear what it is people are saying. So I think bringing authenticity to the workplace is so key. It's so important. And so much of that shows up in how you communicate. So if you're someone, you're listening to this podcast, how does somebody who wants to get noticed do so simply based on the way that they are communicating in the workplace?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah. So I've got some ideas to help with that. First of all, we want to make sure that we're, when we're saying noticeable, we want to be noticeable in the right ways. Right. You want to be noticeable and memorable, but you don't want to be memeable. You don't want to be turning into that Karen at the grocery store that everybody all of a sudden is sharing this video. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that was scary. You don't want to be that kind of noticeable and memorable. Right. So instead, what you want to be is building trust and you want to be building credibility and making people want to listen to you. And so I've got three words that I think will help and acronym. Pep. Have some pep. Let's see here. Preparation. Emotional awareness and presence. So let's see. Preparation.
(04:15):
Let's, you know, I'll probably be talking about most of the stuff, like you're attending a meeting because I think that's the easiest place to really feel if you're communicating well or not. Preparation. Are you showing up to the meeting with something to talk about? Are you showing up to the meeting with things that are important to you? Are you considering what your coworkers might ask in that meeting and being prepped with things? You know, this is, we're not talking something that's going to take you like half an hour. This is probably only going to take you five minutes. If you're willing to do that little bit of extra work before a meeting, you make a huge difference. Emotional awareness. Read the room. Like we say it. And we're like, read the room. But no, really read the room. Are people up? Are they down?
(05:05):
Are they paying attention? Are they not paying attention? If you're just reading that just. Just a little bit when you start to talk, you know, even mention it, like, I can see everybody's not feeling great today. Let's see if we can move this in a more positive direction. Just little things like that will make a big difference. And then with presence, put that phone away. If it's. If you're on a virtual meeting and you're not all in the same room, don't be looking at that second screen. Don't be, you know, working on something else. Don't be on slack or on teams and just going away at it. Be present in the meeting. Turn on your camera. You don't have to do it every time, especially if you're just not comfortable doing it. But do it sometimes.
(05:54):
Show yourself and show that you are present in that meeting. And just those three things, Pep. Show some pep going into the meeting, and it's going to make a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love that. And it is so true because there's a million different things we can do, right? And I feel like a lot of the time, we overthink it, and it really is that simple. Something that I often will tell people is when we're talking preparation, know who's going to be in the meeting and what they care about. If finance is in the meeting, have numbers prepped. If operations is in the meeting, know how this is going to impact the process. If your CEO is in the meeting, they care about the bottom line. How is this helping with revenue? How is this improving customer experience? Right? Know your audience and you can even jot down three quick notes. I'm a sticky notes girl, so, like, pick your medium of preference, but do you write on a sticky note?
(06:45):
Like, okay, make sure the numbers are this. Ask this question. Follow up on this so that you know, kind of where you're going. I would also further enhance this by saying, set an agenda. I hate showing up to meetings where there's no agenda. What are we talking about here? What are we trying to accomplish?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The worst is just like when you get that meeting request where it's just catch up and then there's absolutely nothing in the meeting. It's like, oh, good, you're trying to drive my anxiety. Fantastic. It's the worst. Yeah, but like, please set an agenda. Put it in. If you're the one setting the meeting, put it in the meeting. Invite if someone sent it to you, send them a message. Be like, what's this about? It just, oh, it makes all the difference.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, I think especially if you have multiple stakeholders, right? What is each person trying to accomplish? Don't just walk in there and try to wing it. Some of us can. I would say I'm probably, I like winging it. That's usually my personality of choice. But if I've got eight different stakeholders who need stuff, I'm at least going to write down what they need in the meeting so that we don't go too far off on a tangent. So I love that. I also think that for your e that, you know, understanding the emotional component, like reading the room, it is this. I'm gonna say this is especially true interviews, right. If you go into an interview, like, I was talking about this with a client the other day, I'm like a happy, bubbly, smiley personality. It's just who I am.
(08:13):
I tone that down slightly interviews because most people interviews are very serious and they want, like, clear answers to their questions. They don't care that you had a great holiday, honestly. They just want to know, can you do the job? And so there's a little bit of reading the room and going, okay, maybe I'm not my, like, super peppy, bubbly self today. I'm not gonna show up inauthentic. Maybe I'm a little more serious. I'm a little more measured with my communication. I'm answering the question a little more clearly. And I think if you can learn to do that, to respond to those body cues, those verbal cues, that emotional side, it does set you up for far more success, both interviewing but also in maintaining relationships.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Right. And I what's interesting that I started doing with interviews when I was trying to get to other places and try other jobs, I'd get into that screener interview, and I started just very, being very blatant to be like, am I giving you the answers you're looking for? And then sometimes they'd say no, or, yeah, maybe, but let me ask you this. So even just, like, being willing to ask, like, they always ask, like, do you have any questions? Really take that time and show, like, that you're paying attention. Like, you're not giving me much feedback here right now, I can't tell if that's just because you're checking the boxes and things are feeling good or if it's, I'm not checking any boxes. And you're just like, you know.
(09:36):
And so I have left some of those screen reviews where they're like, you know what? I actually think you're probably not a great fit for this role. And this is what we're looking for. And then I'll be like, oh, yep. Nope, I don't have that kind of experience. I don't think this is the right fit. And leaving that way, rather than just leaving with the, like, I have no idea how that went is so much more. I don't want to call it satisfying, but it feels finalized. Like, it just, like, you're not left with that. Like, will they, won't they call me back?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah. Especially avoiding, like, the ghosting era. I feel like we've gotten into ghosting with recruiting. Like, we did it in dating. Now we do it to our professional selves.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That's the worst.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Rather just you say, like, listen, you're not my type. I'm cool with that. Let's just all move on then. So I think that's totally true. And then I think lastly, for present, honestly, this is going to be one that I struggle with because, and I know people listening to this are gonna be like, but I'm busy. I have back to back meetings. Right. Yesterday I had eleven and a half hours straight of calls with no breaks. Seven and a half hours, no breaks, straight through. I had, like, five minutes here where a meeting would end early to, like, run to the restroom, grab some water. And I think it is really hard to stay present, not to want to multitask, not to want to do this, but I find myself when I am multitasking, they're not getting the best version of me. Right.
(11:00):
I could be adding value that I'm not adding. And so I do think that is really key. And I think it's something that people notice. Right. I have an executive who shall go unnamed, who, when I'm on a call with them, I know they're not paying attention, and so I'll say their name. I'm that type of meeting leader. And as fake name, Steve would care. We're doing this because I want to reengage before we get past that. And then Steve goes, well, what about this? I'm going, yeah, well, we did talk about that, Steve, while you were answering emails. So I do think that being present, like, showing up, I think if you're a meeting leader, something that goes with present is also being awareness of people's lack of presence. How do you bring them back into the conversation?
(11:43):
Well, clearly this is key to Ashley. Ashley really cares about this outcome. You know, Ashley, do you have any questions about that? Like, reengaging? I think throughout the meeting also, especially as you get to that level where you're the leading voice of a meeting. How do you do that intentionally too, rather than like, oh, well, everybody's peaced out mentally, so I'll just get through this material so we can end the call. It's not.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I have definitely, like, in meetings where I can tell nobody's listening. I'll just do like a pause and let the silence sit there for a second and be like, okay, are we back? Are we listening? Like, come on, everybody, get up. Do a stretch. You know, like, everyone at least turn on their mics and let me hear that you are still, like, at your computer. And, I don't know, it makes a big difference. That was, I loved working with developers when I was in product management, and they're my people. They're the quiet, introverted folk I know, and I understand them, but, man, they never want to turn on the cameras. They don't want to really talk in meetings because meetings are on coding time. And I'm like, no, like, this is where you figure out what you're coding.
(13:02):
Like, there is an important element to this meeting. And so keeping them engaged and making sure they're listening and forcing them to answer questions for me. And, you know, sometimes playing dumb because I had no idea what they were doing, and sometimes playing dumb just to get them to give me the answers, it just gotta keep them engaged, keep them on their toes.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I think it's interesting because I'm in tech, and I have been for quite a while, and I'm, I would say probably not the standard personality type, right? And I always laugh because when I engage with devs, they're like, I don't know what to do with all of that, right?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
And you occasionally find that extroverted Dev, that's, like, my person.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
You're like, this is fabulous. I'm like, great, tell me all the things. And I think this is true of a lot of industries. We don't mean to pick on tech. I think Dev is a unique one. I think, you know, there's a lot of areas where we tend to get more introverts than extroverts. And I think that's a key point here, too. So as somebody who has been through this, who does help with this and educate on this, is building, you know, reputation as a good communicator. Is standing out through communication easier for extroverts than it is for introverts?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I think ultimately, no, because I think we usually just associate introversion with shyness. And that's not the case. An extrovert can be shy. And I was reading on Susan Cain's website, you know, the godmother of all introverts, and she actually talked about them on, like, an x y axis. So, like, one side is your extroversion and your introversion, and, like, where you fall on the scale, and the other was stability and anxiety. And the shyness is actually just a manifestation of anxiety. And so, you know, one of the examples she used was Barbra Streisand. Okay, she's Barbara, right? Like, she's big vocal, got a big presence, very extroverted, but she deals with stage fright, and so she always has to get through that stage fright. Like, why would streisand have stage fright? It's not logical. She just does so.
(15:19):
So it really is more about the, like, coming up with what is the cause of the anxiety and overcoming the shyness. And the. The introversion versus extroversion is really actually more about how you recharge. You know, maybe if you're in a loud environment and you're introverted, that's not your idea of a great time, but you might still actually enjoy it. You're just not recharging. You're just using up energy in that moment. So I think it's a misconception of, like, introversion versus extroversion being a reason you can't communicate. It's actually the anxiety and the shyness, and that can be on any side.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It's important to have this distinction, because contrary to popular belief, I am an introvert. Okay. My idea of recharge is alone in the woods with a book where no one talks to me and I don't have to see anybody. It's wonderful. Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yes, I'm with you. I'm 100% with you.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
From what my job is and what I do for a living and how my role has evolved and the fact that I moved a lot as a kid, I always joke that I'm, like, extroverted by force, introverted by nature. Right? Like, I can mingle. I can be that person, but it's not a natural thing for me. And I think it's really important to call out this difference. If it is overcoming anxiety I have, I'm going to make up a name for it in this moment, like, post social anxiety. So, like, after I'm done talking and I'm done with the social, that's when I freak out. And then I overthink everything I just said over the last 2 hours and tear it apart and decide that, like, everyone in that room hated me.
(16:54):
Okay, so this is my personality, and I have lots of people that I've coached and lots of people that I work with who have, like, pre meeting anxiety, they don't want to go in and ask questions and speak up because they're worried about what they will say. I never worry about what I will say, but I will sit back after and be like, oh, no, that was terrible. None of those people will ever talk to me again. I have, like, post social anxiety, and so I have both.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So that's. That's fun, right?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You just have fun on both sides. Me too. But I think, like, I never listen to my own podcast episodes for this exact reason. Like, I physically cannot. The anxieties, too, because I'm like, why did I say that? Why did that come out that way? Right. But I think it is important because I have a lot of people who reach out to me who say I'm neurodivergent, I'm introverted. It's really hard for me to speak up in meetings. And the tips that I give is like, figure out your energy cycles. It's like, I'm a morning person, high energy in the morning. I'm low energy at night. You do not want to meet with me at night. You get the worst version of me. And my clients who meet with me at night are probably thinking, like, really?
(17:49):
But that is not the best time for me. You're not going to get the best, Kendall, if you meet with me at 08:00 p.m. But I have a lot of energy in the morning. So the mornings is when I make my content. It's when I reach out to all my executives. And so I think it's also part of, like, understand where your energy is and, like, organize your day around your energy, too. Right. Because the more tired you get, the less you're going to want to talk, the less you're going to want to do, the less pep you're going to have in all those meetings. Right. And so I think if you stack that helps. But it's also, to your point, just mitigating those anxiety pieces, because it can be.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah. And that can be as simple as just sitting down and, like, having a little bit of a mindfulness moment. I'm going to use the buzzword. I'm not using it in the super buzzy way, but I am. Be mindful. Like, okay, I'm going to this meeting. I'm anxious. I don't want to talk in this meeting. Why don't I want to talk in this meeting? What's making me feel this way? And if you can just, like, even give a little bit. Like I, you know, like maybe you're going to surprise yourself and like, you know, Steve will use Steve again. Steve scares me. Okay, well, that, yet you gave a name to it, you know, or maybe it's just that it's like, oh, what if I say something silly? If you said something silly, most people are never gonna remember.
(19:09):
Every time there is something that lives in my head and lives there rent free that I said that I thought was just dumb, if I ask somebody about it like a week later, they're like, what are you talking about? Yeah, it only sticks for you, it doesn't stick for them.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, that's absolutely true. So I think that this is, you know, it's an interesting practice to talk about how to build confidence, communication, how to show up, be present, have that EQ, be prepared. How do you start to develop the confidence to put these tactics into practice? Right. The people who are listening, who are like, yeah, this is all great, but like, I still don't want to do it. How do we start to put that confidence in place so that they can then go implement and find that success?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, that's really important. And I think that is really just about being willing to ask yourself questions and to sit with yourself. Now, on days like you mentioned yesterday, where you had eleven and a half hours of straight meetings, this is going to be harder. But, you know, trying to find some time where you can sit down and ask yourself questions about, like, okay, I'm not feeling great about this meeting. How can I improve how I feel about this meeting? So go back to pep. Turn the pep into questions. So preparation. Honestly, if you come in just like coming into a test without studying, you're gonna feel freaked out. If you go into a meeting without being prepped, you're not gonna feel confident, you're just not. And again, that prep doesn't need to be long. It can only be five.
(20:39):
It only needs like five minutes. Just go in, check some records, pull some numbers. Even having like, one thing to say is going to make all the difference. Then turn that emotional awareness, the EQ, back onto yourself. How am I feeling? Am I not in a great space today or am I feeling good? If I am feeling good, how am I going to actually exude that today? If you're having a good day, use it and use that good energy. Then the presence, do self checks. And for our dopamine loving world, I am so guilty. You know, you're like, oh, this meeting is boring. I need to be doing something with my hands and my ADHD sets in, and I need to be playing with things. No, fight it. Absolutely, fight it.
(21:33):
And maybe if you need to fidget with something, do that, but otherwise, stay engaged. Don't look at slack. Don't look at teams. Don't be answering emails. Don't be looking at your phone doodle if that's what helps you concentrate, but also look up and don't always be looking down. Doodling. And, like, just like that. It's. I'm gonna say mindfulness again. I am. But, like, being mindful of what you're doing and saying, I am. Choosing to be present is gonna be uncomfortable. It is. It is not going to be, like, a fun time at first, but eventually it starts to feel more natural, and it makes you care more. And I think that's the part that people don't realize, is when you take the time to slow down and actually take in your surroundings, you care about them more.
(22:28):
And it's not just like, oh, well, this is my job. Well, yeah, it's your job, but you also spend many, many hours a week at this job, so you don't have to love it to appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, no, these are great, and they're tactical tips to apply that I really appreciate. I think something for me with the presence piece is I have to be taking notes. If I'm not taking notes, I'm not listening. Like, I know this about myself. This is from years of learning in college that I did not study well, lecture style. And so I have a notepad that I'll take notes on, or I have a word dock up that I'll take meeting notes. And I find that when you start doing that, not only does it help you stay present and stay prepared, but also, you get a lot more out of it. And I don't think I've told this story before on the podcast.
(23:11):
I know I've told it to clients, but before I have my first child, I am a notorious note taker, and I send meeting notes. Okay. My first boss ever was like, every meeting gets meeting notes. And that, like, was drilled into my brain, and I do it. And when I was going out on maternity leave, my boss at the time was like, kendall, whatever will we do without your meeting notes and making fun? And I just kind of laughed, and I was like, oh, you poor thing. And when I came back, he was like, oh, my God, I've missed you. Where are the meeting notes? What are we doing? He's like, I did not realize how dependent I had gotten on you, always sending out meeting notes that you left, and suddenly I had no idea what was going on anymore.
(23:49):
He's like, can you come back in meetings and start sending some meeting notes again? That would be really great. Thank you. And I was like, yeah. But it does. It builds that practice. It keeps you present. It keeps other people present. So, like, for me, that's how I do it. So I love this idea of, like, figure out what it is for you. Do you need to doodle? Do you need to have something to fidget with at your desk? My. My husband sharpens knives on calls. That sounds horrible now that I say it, but, like, just. I get it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Like, repetitive movement with your hand.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah. And it's off camera. It's not like he's serial killering to his coworkers, but, you know, a way.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
To get someone's attention if they're not.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Listening, are you paying attention? But, like, something, like, have something to do with your hands? Like, figure out what that is for you? Maybe it's not, because now that I say that in a public form, it sounds dramatic, but, you know, it's in the episode, so we're good with it. But I love this of, like, figure out how to do it and ask yourselves those questions. I think one tactical thing I would add to this for people who are struggling with the confidence piece is I make my clients write down ten things they're great at their job. Ten things that you feel really confident you can do well. Maybe you're really great at the technical side. Maybe you, like, are a pivot table wizard. Maybe you really understand your space. Maybe you have a lot of tribal knowledge.
(25:00):
What are the ten things you're really great at, at your job? And when you are really feeling that lack of confidence, can you refer to that? Be like, no, I may not feel super confident talking in meetings, but I'm great at these ten things. And, like, it's okay if I talk about those ten things, because I know those ten things, and I have that built in. I think that's a good reference material as well to bring into this.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I love those kinds of lists, that mental exercise is more powerful than you think it is. I would add to that. One that I've also done is if whatever you're struggling with, like, if you are struggling with speaking up or you're struggling with interjecting, if you. If it is one of those cases of a lot of people taking up or, like, two or three people taking up most of the talking time, you know, think of when am I good at interrupting or interjecting? When am I good at speaking? And that could be outside of work. But then like, okay, what about that? Like, you know, with your family, are you comfortable interjecting with your family? Great, probably, why? What makes it different? And just like recognizing, I do know how to do this, I just don't do it here, so.
(26:07):
And like trying to engage whatever makes you want to do it in other environments.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, and that brings up a great point because I think there is some amount of like catering or communication. So how would, do you advise clients, how would you advise listeners to cater their communication strategy based on like even what type of company they work for? Right. Like the long established corporate, the startup, the tech. Like what are the places where we do tailor specifically to that environment?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, I would say first, before you start trying to tailor it to your environment, to try and be bold first. And the reason I say that is it doesn't matter if you're working for a tech company, for a long established financial firm, for a manufacturing company that's been around since the industrial revolution, whatever it is, they all, you need to be pushing boundaries and so you can be bold and they're not going to fire you for asking a bold question or making a bold move. Or if they are, well, you probably don't want to be there anyway, just genuinely. But try being bold first and see where that gets you. And if it works, okay, then I don't have to tailor how I'm talking to this corporation if it doesn't work. Yeah, you can back it off.
(27:36):
And like you were talking about with interviews, like, just like backing off the bubbliness just a little bit. I think that's fine. And you can, you know, read the room, you know, assess like how it's going on to make those minor adjustments. But I would say before you do that, try and be bold and get out there and put yourself out there first because every corporation, no matter how old, how new, needs that innovation, needs somebody willing to push the boundaries. And if you are that person that's willing to push the boundaries just a little bit, you're going to get noticed.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's definitely true. So this has been such a great episode, actually. I love getting to talk through all of this with you. I think there's such a, an important part of authenticity in our communication and how we show up and then that being, you know, present piece that helps us establish ourselves as that expert, as that key stakeholder. So before we let you go. What's one piece of advice you would give to listeners, right? If they listen to this episode and all they listen is the last four minutes, what's one thing that you would tell them to go do tomorrow to help them start getting noticed for their communication?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I would say grab a journal. Even if you are not a journaler, even if you don't like sitting down and journaling, grab a journal. Put some fun into it. I love using washi tape and stickers in mine. And be willing to sit with yourself and to have a conversation with yourself. Use the Internet for journal prompts if you just cannot do it otherwise. But there's a. I think often people struggle with their confidence because they don't know who they are. That's usually when I struggle is when I'm in a point of a flux of change as a person and I'm learning and I'm growing and suddenly I don't know who I am. A willingness to write down and see what you say to yourself about yourself and being like, oh yeah, I can, I'm pretty cool. Or maybe I'm.
(29:51):
Maybe I'm just still learning who I am. Being able to have that awareness gonna give you the confidence. And even if no one ever reads it, even if you have to turn it into a burn book, doesn't matter. The exercise of sitting down with yourself and going through that writing makes a big difference.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, Ashley, for being on the episode. For anybody who listened, if you love today's episode, you want more like this, please give us five stars and write a review so we can get more amazing guests like Ashley on the show. Otherwise, if people were interested in finding you, Ashley, where do they go to get more information?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, so you can go to my website and it should also be in the show notes authenticnarratives.com pod. If you go there, you can actually have a chance to book a coaching call with me at a steep discount versus just going to my main webpage. I would love to work with any of you know, with anyone, especially if you are in that mid career space where you don't know how to move forward or you don't know how to help some of your direct reports move forward. I would love to work with you either on a coaching basis where we can be helping you move forward or coming up with some sort of workshop schedule for your team. So yeah, still very open to doing any of that kind of work. And again, authenticnarratives.com pod and you can get some more information.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I appreciate it. Well, thanks, Ashley. We will all be putting pep into practice this week. Tune back in next week for another great episode of secrets of the corporate game. And we're signing off.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Hi, everybody.
Hey, everybody. So excited about our guest. Today we are going to be talking about developing a communication style that's going to help get you noticed. And we're having this chat with Ashley Crosby. So Ashley left grad school during the great Recession. She rendered her MFA less useful than originally expected, but she landed job and tech for twelve years and then burned out like so many people we talked to on the podcast, so many people out there experiencing this, especially post pandemic. And she realized she needed to change. So now she's got real world experience. She's been a people manager, sport manager, product manager, and so she founded Authentic Narratives, which is a professional consulting business focused on bringing more integrity, purpose and humanity to the workplace. So really excited about our chat. Welcome, Ashley. It's awesome to have you on the show.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Thanks, Kendall. I'm really excited. Yeah. So let's see. Authentic narratives launched last spring. And it's been a wonderful growing path for me because I've had to learn how to run a business, which has been really exciting. But what I left with, like you said, I'd hit that burnout point. I didn't really want to continue doing what I'd been doing. And I was like, what is it that's been missing? And I realized that there's just so many businesses that aren't catering or not catering, aren't thinking about being authentic with their coworkers and with the people that they work with every day. They do it with their clients, I think, or trying to do it with their clients, but then don't give the same courtesy to the people that are in their office every day.
(01:42):
And so that's what I've been focused on, is helping you be authentic and be real and be yourself, as well as nurturing companies to also create an environment that allows for you to be able to be that person.
Speaker 1 (01:59):
I think that's awesome because I think what's interesting is I, you know, I have a specific niche. Mine is playing the corporate game and I think it gets a bad rep as being inauthentic. Right. Because there are so many politics at play. There's so much you can't say. There's certain ways to say things. How do you massage your language? And something that I talk about a lot with clients is it is better to be authentic, but be able to do it in a way that doesn't seem contrary to your coworkers. Right. I'm not a fan of inauthentic. I don't want you to suck up. I don't want you to pretend to be something you're not. But there are certain phrases we can use when we talk to certain people that help us get our points across a little more effectively.
(02:39):
But I think it's a good push because I recently had Teresa White on the podcast, and we talked about how the version of feedback you hear from your boss is often like the much watered down version of the real feedback. Like, you don't actually hear what it is people are saying. So I think bringing authenticity to the workplace is so key. It's so important. And so much of that shows up in how you communicate. So if you're someone, you're listening to this podcast, how does somebody who wants to get noticed do so simply based on the way that they are communicating in the workplace?
Speaker 2 (03:10):
Yeah. So I've got some ideas to help with that. First of all, we want to make sure that we're, when we're saying noticeable, we want to be noticeable in the right ways. Right. You want to be noticeable and memorable, but you don't want to be memeable. You don't want to be turning into that Karen at the grocery store that everybody all of a sudden is sharing this video. I'm like, oh, my gosh, that was scary. You don't want to be that kind of noticeable and memorable. Right. So instead, what you want to be is building trust and you want to be building credibility and making people want to listen to you. And so I've got three words that I think will help and acronym. Pep. Have some pep. Let's see here. Preparation. Emotional awareness and presence. So let's see. Preparation.
(04:15):
Let's, you know, I'll probably be talking about most of the stuff, like you're attending a meeting because I think that's the easiest place to really feel if you're communicating well or not. Preparation. Are you showing up to the meeting with something to talk about? Are you showing up to the meeting with things that are important to you? Are you considering what your coworkers might ask in that meeting and being prepped with things? You know, this is, we're not talking something that's going to take you like half an hour. This is probably only going to take you five minutes. If you're willing to do that little bit of extra work before a meeting, you make a huge difference. Emotional awareness. Read the room. Like we say it. And we're like, read the room. But no, really read the room. Are people up? Are they down?
(05:05):
Are they paying attention? Are they not paying attention? If you're just reading that just. Just a little bit when you start to talk, you know, even mention it, like, I can see everybody's not feeling great today. Let's see if we can move this in a more positive direction. Just little things like that will make a big difference. And then with presence, put that phone away. If it's. If you're on a virtual meeting and you're not all in the same room, don't be looking at that second screen. Don't be, you know, working on something else. Don't be on slack or on teams and just going away at it. Be present in the meeting. Turn on your camera. You don't have to do it every time, especially if you're just not comfortable doing it. But do it sometimes.
(05:54):
Show yourself and show that you are present in that meeting. And just those three things, Pep. Show some pep going into the meeting, and it's going to make a huge difference.
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I love that. And it is so true because there's a million different things we can do, right? And I feel like a lot of the time, we overthink it, and it really is that simple. Something that I often will tell people is when we're talking preparation, know who's going to be in the meeting and what they care about. If finance is in the meeting, have numbers prepped. If operations is in the meeting, know how this is going to impact the process. If your CEO is in the meeting, they care about the bottom line. How is this helping with revenue? How is this improving customer experience? Right? Know your audience and you can even jot down three quick notes. I'm a sticky notes girl, so, like, pick your medium of preference, but do you write on a sticky note?
(06:45):
Like, okay, make sure the numbers are this. Ask this question. Follow up on this so that you know, kind of where you're going. I would also further enhance this by saying, set an agenda. I hate showing up to meetings where there's no agenda. What are we talking about here? What are we trying to accomplish?
Speaker 2 (07:03):
The worst is just like when you get that meeting request where it's just catch up and then there's absolutely nothing in the meeting. It's like, oh, good, you're trying to drive my anxiety. Fantastic. It's the worst. Yeah, but like, please set an agenda. Put it in. If you're the one setting the meeting, put it in the meeting. Invite if someone sent it to you, send them a message. Be like, what's this about? It just, oh, it makes all the difference.
Speaker 1 (07:31):
Well, I think especially if you have multiple stakeholders, right? What is each person trying to accomplish? Don't just walk in there and try to wing it. Some of us can. I would say I'm probably, I like winging it. That's usually my personality of choice. But if I've got eight different stakeholders who need stuff, I'm at least going to write down what they need in the meeting so that we don't go too far off on a tangent. So I love that. I also think that for your e that, you know, understanding the emotional component, like reading the room, it is this. I'm gonna say this is especially true interviews, right. If you go into an interview, like, I was talking about this with a client the other day, I'm like a happy, bubbly, smiley personality. It's just who I am.
(08:13):
I tone that down slightly interviews because most people interviews are very serious and they want, like, clear answers to their questions. They don't care that you had a great holiday, honestly. They just want to know, can you do the job? And so there's a little bit of reading the room and going, okay, maybe I'm not my, like, super peppy, bubbly self today. I'm not gonna show up inauthentic. Maybe I'm a little more serious. I'm a little more measured with my communication. I'm answering the question a little more clearly. And I think if you can learn to do that, to respond to those body cues, those verbal cues, that emotional side, it does set you up for far more success, both interviewing but also in maintaining relationships.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Right. And I what's interesting that I started doing with interviews when I was trying to get to other places and try other jobs, I'd get into that screener interview, and I started just very, being very blatant to be like, am I giving you the answers you're looking for? And then sometimes they'd say no, or, yeah, maybe, but let me ask you this. So even just, like, being willing to ask, like, they always ask, like, do you have any questions? Really take that time and show, like, that you're paying attention. Like, you're not giving me much feedback here right now, I can't tell if that's just because you're checking the boxes and things are feeling good or if it's, I'm not checking any boxes. And you're just like, you know.
(09:36):
And so I have left some of those screen reviews where they're like, you know what? I actually think you're probably not a great fit for this role. And this is what we're looking for. And then I'll be like, oh, yep. Nope, I don't have that kind of experience. I don't think this is the right fit. And leaving that way, rather than just leaving with the, like, I have no idea how that went is so much more. I don't want to call it satisfying, but it feels finalized. Like, it just, like, you're not left with that. Like, will they, won't they call me back?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
Yeah. Especially avoiding, like, the ghosting era. I feel like we've gotten into ghosting with recruiting. Like, we did it in dating. Now we do it to our professional selves.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
That's the worst.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Rather just you say, like, listen, you're not my type. I'm cool with that. Let's just all move on then. So I think that's totally true. And then I think lastly, for present, honestly, this is going to be one that I struggle with because, and I know people listening to this are gonna be like, but I'm busy. I have back to back meetings. Right. Yesterday I had eleven and a half hours straight of calls with no breaks. Seven and a half hours, no breaks, straight through. I had, like, five minutes here where a meeting would end early to, like, run to the restroom, grab some water. And I think it is really hard to stay present, not to want to multitask, not to want to do this, but I find myself when I am multitasking, they're not getting the best version of me. Right.
(11:00):
I could be adding value that I'm not adding. And so I do think that is really key. And I think it's something that people notice. Right. I have an executive who shall go unnamed, who, when I'm on a call with them, I know they're not paying attention, and so I'll say their name. I'm that type of meeting leader. And as fake name, Steve would care. We're doing this because I want to reengage before we get past that. And then Steve goes, well, what about this? I'm going, yeah, well, we did talk about that, Steve, while you were answering emails. So I do think that being present, like, showing up, I think if you're a meeting leader, something that goes with present is also being awareness of people's lack of presence. How do you bring them back into the conversation?
(11:43):
Well, clearly this is key to Ashley. Ashley really cares about this outcome. You know, Ashley, do you have any questions about that? Like, reengaging? I think throughout the meeting also, especially as you get to that level where you're the leading voice of a meeting. How do you do that intentionally too, rather than like, oh, well, everybody's peaced out mentally, so I'll just get through this material so we can end the call. It's not.
Speaker 2 (12:06):
I have definitely, like, in meetings where I can tell nobody's listening. I'll just do like a pause and let the silence sit there for a second and be like, okay, are we back? Are we listening? Like, come on, everybody, get up. Do a stretch. You know, like, everyone at least turn on their mics and let me hear that you are still, like, at your computer. And, I don't know, it makes a big difference. That was, I loved working with developers when I was in product management, and they're my people. They're the quiet, introverted folk I know, and I understand them, but, man, they never want to turn on the cameras. They don't want to really talk in meetings because meetings are on coding time. And I'm like, no, like, this is where you figure out what you're coding.
(13:02):
Like, there is an important element to this meeting. And so keeping them engaged and making sure they're listening and forcing them to answer questions for me. And, you know, sometimes playing dumb because I had no idea what they were doing, and sometimes playing dumb just to get them to give me the answers, it just gotta keep them engaged, keep them on their toes.
Speaker 1 (13:24):
I think it's interesting because I'm in tech, and I have been for quite a while, and I'm, I would say probably not the standard personality type, right? And I always laugh because when I engage with devs, they're like, I don't know what to do with all of that, right?
Speaker 2 (13:42):
And you occasionally find that extroverted Dev, that's, like, my person.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
You're like, this is fabulous. I'm like, great, tell me all the things. And I think this is true of a lot of industries. We don't mean to pick on tech. I think Dev is a unique one. I think, you know, there's a lot of areas where we tend to get more introverts than extroverts. And I think that's a key point here, too. So as somebody who has been through this, who does help with this and educate on this, is building, you know, reputation as a good communicator. Is standing out through communication easier for extroverts than it is for introverts?
Speaker 2 (14:13):
I think ultimately, no, because I think we usually just associate introversion with shyness. And that's not the case. An extrovert can be shy. And I was reading on Susan Cain's website, you know, the godmother of all introverts, and she actually talked about them on, like, an x y axis. So, like, one side is your extroversion and your introversion, and, like, where you fall on the scale, and the other was stability and anxiety. And the shyness is actually just a manifestation of anxiety. And so, you know, one of the examples she used was Barbra Streisand. Okay, she's Barbara, right? Like, she's big vocal, got a big presence, very extroverted, but she deals with stage fright, and so she always has to get through that stage fright. Like, why would streisand have stage fright? It's not logical. She just does so.
(15:19):
So it really is more about the, like, coming up with what is the cause of the anxiety and overcoming the shyness. And the. The introversion versus extroversion is really actually more about how you recharge. You know, maybe if you're in a loud environment and you're introverted, that's not your idea of a great time, but you might still actually enjoy it. You're just not recharging. You're just using up energy in that moment. So I think it's a misconception of, like, introversion versus extroversion being a reason you can't communicate. It's actually the anxiety and the shyness, and that can be on any side.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
It's important to have this distinction, because contrary to popular belief, I am an introvert. Okay. My idea of recharge is alone in the woods with a book where no one talks to me and I don't have to see anybody. It's wonderful. Okay.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Yes, I'm with you. I'm 100% with you.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
From what my job is and what I do for a living and how my role has evolved and the fact that I moved a lot as a kid, I always joke that I'm, like, extroverted by force, introverted by nature. Right? Like, I can mingle. I can be that person, but it's not a natural thing for me. And I think it's really important to call out this difference. If it is overcoming anxiety I have, I'm going to make up a name for it in this moment, like, post social anxiety. So, like, after I'm done talking and I'm done with the social, that's when I freak out. And then I overthink everything I just said over the last 2 hours and tear it apart and decide that, like, everyone in that room hated me.
(16:54):
Okay, so this is my personality, and I have lots of people that I've coached and lots of people that I work with who have, like, pre meeting anxiety, they don't want to go in and ask questions and speak up because they're worried about what they will say. I never worry about what I will say, but I will sit back after and be like, oh, no, that was terrible. None of those people will ever talk to me again. I have, like, post social anxiety, and so I have both.
Speaker 2 (17:14):
So that's. That's fun, right?
Speaker 1 (17:15):
You just have fun on both sides. Me too. But I think, like, I never listen to my own podcast episodes for this exact reason. Like, I physically cannot. The anxieties, too, because I'm like, why did I say that? Why did that come out that way? Right. But I think it is important because I have a lot of people who reach out to me who say I'm neurodivergent, I'm introverted. It's really hard for me to speak up in meetings. And the tips that I give is like, figure out your energy cycles. It's like, I'm a morning person, high energy in the morning. I'm low energy at night. You do not want to meet with me at night. You get the worst version of me. And my clients who meet with me at night are probably thinking, like, really?
(17:49):
But that is not the best time for me. You're not going to get the best, Kendall, if you meet with me at 08:00 p.m. But I have a lot of energy in the morning. So the mornings is when I make my content. It's when I reach out to all my executives. And so I think it's also part of, like, understand where your energy is and, like, organize your day around your energy, too. Right. Because the more tired you get, the less you're going to want to talk, the less you're going to want to do, the less pep you're going to have in all those meetings. Right. And so I think if you stack that helps. But it's also, to your point, just mitigating those anxiety pieces, because it can be.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
Yeah. And that can be as simple as just sitting down and, like, having a little bit of a mindfulness moment. I'm going to use the buzzword. I'm not using it in the super buzzy way, but I am. Be mindful. Like, okay, I'm going to this meeting. I'm anxious. I don't want to talk in this meeting. Why don't I want to talk in this meeting? What's making me feel this way? And if you can just, like, even give a little bit. Like I, you know, like maybe you're going to surprise yourself and like, you know, Steve will use Steve again. Steve scares me. Okay, well, that, yet you gave a name to it, you know, or maybe it's just that it's like, oh, what if I say something silly? If you said something silly, most people are never gonna remember.
(19:09):
Every time there is something that lives in my head and lives there rent free that I said that I thought was just dumb, if I ask somebody about it like a week later, they're like, what are you talking about? Yeah, it only sticks for you, it doesn't stick for them.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
Yeah, that's absolutely true. So I think that this is, you know, it's an interesting practice to talk about how to build confidence, communication, how to show up, be present, have that EQ, be prepared. How do you start to develop the confidence to put these tactics into practice? Right. The people who are listening, who are like, yeah, this is all great, but like, I still don't want to do it. How do we start to put that confidence in place so that they can then go implement and find that success?
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, that's really important. And I think that is really just about being willing to ask yourself questions and to sit with yourself. Now, on days like you mentioned yesterday, where you had eleven and a half hours of straight meetings, this is going to be harder. But, you know, trying to find some time where you can sit down and ask yourself questions about, like, okay, I'm not feeling great about this meeting. How can I improve how I feel about this meeting? So go back to pep. Turn the pep into questions. So preparation. Honestly, if you come in just like coming into a test without studying, you're gonna feel freaked out. If you go into a meeting without being prepped, you're not gonna feel confident, you're just not. And again, that prep doesn't need to be long. It can only be five.
(20:39):
It only needs like five minutes. Just go in, check some records, pull some numbers. Even having like, one thing to say is going to make all the difference. Then turn that emotional awareness, the EQ, back onto yourself. How am I feeling? Am I not in a great space today or am I feeling good? If I am feeling good, how am I going to actually exude that today? If you're having a good day, use it and use that good energy. Then the presence, do self checks. And for our dopamine loving world, I am so guilty. You know, you're like, oh, this meeting is boring. I need to be doing something with my hands and my ADHD sets in, and I need to be playing with things. No, fight it. Absolutely, fight it.
(21:33):
And maybe if you need to fidget with something, do that, but otherwise, stay engaged. Don't look at slack. Don't look at teams. Don't be answering emails. Don't be looking at your phone doodle if that's what helps you concentrate, but also look up and don't always be looking down. Doodling. And, like, just like that. It's. I'm gonna say mindfulness again. I am. But, like, being mindful of what you're doing and saying, I am. Choosing to be present is gonna be uncomfortable. It is. It is not going to be, like, a fun time at first, but eventually it starts to feel more natural, and it makes you care more. And I think that's the part that people don't realize, is when you take the time to slow down and actually take in your surroundings, you care about them more.
(22:28):
And it's not just like, oh, well, this is my job. Well, yeah, it's your job, but you also spend many, many hours a week at this job, so you don't have to love it to appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Yeah, no, these are great, and they're tactical tips to apply that I really appreciate. I think something for me with the presence piece is I have to be taking notes. If I'm not taking notes, I'm not listening. Like, I know this about myself. This is from years of learning in college that I did not study well, lecture style. And so I have a notepad that I'll take notes on, or I have a word dock up that I'll take meeting notes. And I find that when you start doing that, not only does it help you stay present and stay prepared, but also, you get a lot more out of it. And I don't think I've told this story before on the podcast.
(23:11):
I know I've told it to clients, but before I have my first child, I am a notorious note taker, and I send meeting notes. Okay. My first boss ever was like, every meeting gets meeting notes. And that, like, was drilled into my brain, and I do it. And when I was going out on maternity leave, my boss at the time was like, kendall, whatever will we do without your meeting notes and making fun? And I just kind of laughed, and I was like, oh, you poor thing. And when I came back, he was like, oh, my God, I've missed you. Where are the meeting notes? What are we doing? He's like, I did not realize how dependent I had gotten on you, always sending out meeting notes that you left, and suddenly I had no idea what was going on anymore.
(23:49):
He's like, can you come back in meetings and start sending some meeting notes again? That would be really great. Thank you. And I was like, yeah. But it does. It builds that practice. It keeps you present. It keeps other people present. So, like, for me, that's how I do it. So I love this idea of, like, figure out what it is for you. Do you need to doodle? Do you need to have something to fidget with at your desk? My. My husband sharpens knives on calls. That sounds horrible now that I say it, but, like, just. I get it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Like, repetitive movement with your hand.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
Yeah. And it's off camera. It's not like he's serial killering to his coworkers, but, you know, a way.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
To get someone's attention if they're not.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
Listening, are you paying attention? But, like, something, like, have something to do with your hands? Like, figure out what that is for you? Maybe it's not, because now that I say that in a public form, it sounds dramatic, but, you know, it's in the episode, so we're good with it. But I love this of, like, figure out how to do it and ask yourselves those questions. I think one tactical thing I would add to this for people who are struggling with the confidence piece is I make my clients write down ten things they're great at their job. Ten things that you feel really confident you can do well. Maybe you're really great at the technical side. Maybe you, like, are a pivot table wizard. Maybe you really understand your space. Maybe you have a lot of tribal knowledge.
(25:00):
What are the ten things you're really great at, at your job? And when you are really feeling that lack of confidence, can you refer to that? Be like, no, I may not feel super confident talking in meetings, but I'm great at these ten things. And, like, it's okay if I talk about those ten things, because I know those ten things, and I have that built in. I think that's a good reference material as well to bring into this.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
I love those kinds of lists, that mental exercise is more powerful than you think it is. I would add to that. One that I've also done is if whatever you're struggling with, like, if you are struggling with speaking up or you're struggling with interjecting, if you. If it is one of those cases of a lot of people taking up or, like, two or three people taking up most of the talking time, you know, think of when am I good at interrupting or interjecting? When am I good at speaking? And that could be outside of work. But then like, okay, what about that? Like, you know, with your family, are you comfortable interjecting with your family? Great, probably, why? What makes it different? And just like recognizing, I do know how to do this, I just don't do it here, so.
(26:07):
And like trying to engage whatever makes you want to do it in other environments.
Speaker 1 (26:13):
Yeah, and that brings up a great point because I think there is some amount of like catering or communication. So how would, do you advise clients, how would you advise listeners to cater their communication strategy based on like even what type of company they work for? Right. Like the long established corporate, the startup, the tech. Like what are the places where we do tailor specifically to that environment?
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Yeah, I would say first, before you start trying to tailor it to your environment, to try and be bold first. And the reason I say that is it doesn't matter if you're working for a tech company, for a long established financial firm, for a manufacturing company that's been around since the industrial revolution, whatever it is, they all, you need to be pushing boundaries and so you can be bold and they're not going to fire you for asking a bold question or making a bold move. Or if they are, well, you probably don't want to be there anyway, just genuinely. But try being bold first and see where that gets you. And if it works, okay, then I don't have to tailor how I'm talking to this corporation if it doesn't work. Yeah, you can back it off.
(27:36):
And like you were talking about with interviews, like, just like backing off the bubbliness just a little bit. I think that's fine. And you can, you know, read the room, you know, assess like how it's going on to make those minor adjustments. But I would say before you do that, try and be bold and get out there and put yourself out there first because every corporation, no matter how old, how new, needs that innovation, needs somebody willing to push the boundaries. And if you are that person that's willing to push the boundaries just a little bit, you're going to get noticed.
Speaker 1 (28:15):
It's definitely true. So this has been such a great episode, actually. I love getting to talk through all of this with you. I think there's such a, an important part of authenticity in our communication and how we show up and then that being, you know, present piece that helps us establish ourselves as that expert, as that key stakeholder. So before we let you go. What's one piece of advice you would give to listeners, right? If they listen to this episode and all they listen is the last four minutes, what's one thing that you would tell them to go do tomorrow to help them start getting noticed for their communication?
Speaker 2 (28:51):
I would say grab a journal. Even if you are not a journaler, even if you don't like sitting down and journaling, grab a journal. Put some fun into it. I love using washi tape and stickers in mine. And be willing to sit with yourself and to have a conversation with yourself. Use the Internet for journal prompts if you just cannot do it otherwise. But there's a. I think often people struggle with their confidence because they don't know who they are. That's usually when I struggle is when I'm in a point of a flux of change as a person and I'm learning and I'm growing and suddenly I don't know who I am. A willingness to write down and see what you say to yourself about yourself and being like, oh yeah, I can, I'm pretty cool. Or maybe I'm.
(29:51):
Maybe I'm just still learning who I am. Being able to have that awareness gonna give you the confidence. And even if no one ever reads it, even if you have to turn it into a burn book, doesn't matter. The exercise of sitting down with yourself and going through that writing makes a big difference.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
That's awesome. Well, thank you so much, Ashley, for being on the episode. For anybody who listened, if you love today's episode, you want more like this, please give us five stars and write a review so we can get more amazing guests like Ashley on the show. Otherwise, if people were interested in finding you, Ashley, where do they go to get more information?
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Yeah, so you can go to my website and it should also be in the show notes authenticnarratives.com pod. If you go there, you can actually have a chance to book a coaching call with me at a steep discount versus just going to my main webpage. I would love to work with any of you know, with anyone, especially if you are in that mid career space where you don't know how to move forward or you don't know how to help some of your direct reports move forward. I would love to work with you either on a coaching basis where we can be helping you move forward or coming up with some sort of workshop schedule for your team. So yeah, still very open to doing any of that kind of work. And again, authenticnarratives.com pod and you can get some more information.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
I appreciate it. Well, thanks, Ashley. We will all be putting pep into practice this week. Tune back in next week for another great episode of secrets of the corporate game. And we're signing off.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Hi, everybody.
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