May 26, 2025 • 22 mins
The smallest move in your career could change everything. That’s the power of the butterfly effect—and it’s already at work whether you realize it or not.
In this episode of Secrets of the Career Game, Kendall Berg unpacks how one tiny shift (a certification, a networking event, even a pause after a layoff) can ripple into massive career transformation. Drawing from real client stories and her own experience, Kendall challenges the panic-pivot and demotion route so many professionals take when facing burnout or job loss. Instead, she outlines the career strategy that actually works in 2025—and it has nothing to do with getting another degree or sending 50 applications a day.
This is your sign to stop waiting for permission and start building momentum. The butterfly effect is already happening—make sure it’s working in your favor.
In this episode, we discuss:
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Why doesn’t stepping down the corporate ladder fix burnout?
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How do you pivot careers after a layoff or toxic job?
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What’s the real ROI of an MBA in today’s market?
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How can I network effectively (without cold LinkedIn DMs)?
⭐️Get our FREE Accomplishments Tracker: https://fabulous-butterfly-83716.myflodesk.com/n8yzvrtw9v
That Career Coach
Want to know more about Kendal Berg, that career coach?
Follow her on Instagram: @thatcareercoach_
Check out her courses on the website: https://thatcareercoach.net/
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kendall Berg (00:00):
But for the high performing high achievers out there who are nearing burnout, frankly. Kendall Berg honest opinion, taking a more junior role is not going to fix that. All it's going to do is decrease your influence and your clout and your scope, give you less power to fix the problems that you're facing and then still burn you out with an insane workload. I think the reason people are trying to move down the corporate ladder is, with the exception of managing people, if you're just doing it because of stress and burnout and workload. Until you learn to implement and maintain boundaries, the level of your position is not going to determine your workload. I have worked with VPs who had really flexible schedules and golfed on Tuesdays and took time off to go to their families, you know, recitals and baseball games.
(00:47):
And I worked with VPs who worked every single day of their vacation until 2am it's not the seniority that determines the flexibility. It is the boundaries in the way that the individual operates within their welcome back to this episode of Secrets of the Career Game. So many people are trying to navigate a corporate world that is laden with secrets, cleverly hidden and unspoken rules to a game that most employees don't even know that they're playing. On this podcast, we try to give you a peek behind the curtains and some tips and tricks to ultimately make you successful in your career and help you progress a little bit faster. Hello lovelies. Welcome back for another great episode on the pod. Today we are talking about how to make tiny career moves that have a big professional glow up effect.
(01:32):
So right now the butterfly effect is having its moment on social media where it's reminding us that even the smallest changes, the smallest actions, can really shape our future job, our careers, and of course, our lives. So according to a recent LinkedIn poll, the most common butterfly effect is the post layoff career pivot. Right? So this is changing and an industry or changing your role type post layoff. And right now they're saying one in three people are using a layoff as the springboard to ultimately make that change. And I think that this is somewhat common. Right? I work with a lot of individuals who have experienced a layoff or who have been through a change in company restructuring that ultimately led to them to quit. And when we're in the moment, it sucks to get laid off.
(02:21):
All right, I'm not going to minimize that. I'm not going to tell you that your feelings are wrong. It blows to be added to a meeting one hour in the future with your HR people and be told, like, tough. Your position's been eliminated. Right? Getting laid off sucks. It does. There's no nice way to put that. There's no positive, well, you'll. You'll feel happier in the future, like, and there's nothing you can say, right, that's going to make that better. So if you've recently been laid off, you're going through a layoff, like, take a moment, sit with it, feel all the feels, give yourself a breather, take a week or two off, go to the Bahamas for all I care, and then come back and get ready to reframe your mind. But post that layoff.
(02:55):
What we don't want to do is jump from a ship that was on fire into a ship that is sinking. And I know it is hard when your financial and livelihood is on the line, right? Where you're like, hey, I've got to get into a new job because if I don't, I'm not going to be able to pay my bills. And we panic and we take some job that we know is not going to be the right fit. We know it's going to suck, but we do it anyways because we want that continuity. We don't want a gap in our resume and we want a paycheck. But you're much better off taking a little couple of steps back and realizing, what do you actually want to do?
(03:24):
Now, this could also be true if you are choosing to leave a toxic work environment or choosing to leave a work environment that's no longer supporting you or suiting your needs. So don't feel like you have to wait for a layoff to really assess your career. I just find that when you are laid off, you're kind of forced to take a step back and think about these things. So when it comes to evaluating your future career, there's a few things that you need to do. The first is you need to figure out what is it about work that you like. And I'm not talking the tactical things, right? Don't think about your marketing. Don't think about your Excel spreadsheets. Don't think about running campaigns or answering client questions. Think about the things you really love doing at work.
(04:00):
For me, I really love problem solving. I live the chaos, okay? I don't work for large stories, super structured companies because I need chaos. And more importantly, I need the space to fix the chaos, which you don't get at big companies generally in order to feel satisfied at work. So what are those things for you? Do you really love managing People you really love problem solving, you really love thinking strategically. You really love getting to ideate and innovate and come up with new things. You love building new solutions. Like, what is it that you like that's not technically related to your job, but is really what's filling your cup? Right. It's what's leaving you happy at the end of the day. Maybe it's working with a bunch of different people, I don't know. Right?
(04:39):
Figure out what those things are and then assess what the good fit jobs are for that. So I do this in my career strategy sessions with my clients and I always tell them that there might be a thousand jobs that are a good fit for what your passions are, but there's a million jobs that are not a good fit. And our goal is more to eliminate the million jobs that aren't a good fit than it is to try to hone in one job that's perfect. Because most of the time there's not a job that's perfect. And once you know what you're passionate about, then you can find what are those roles that fit you? Right. I have marketing campaign managers who come to me who end up in project management or product management.
(05:12):
I have salespeople who come to me who end up in tech development. You have to understand what is important to you, what you value, what's going to leave you feeling satisfied at work and happy. And then you need to make a career plan around that. Okay. You need to identify what those are going to be and then make a career plan. So your career plan includes a few things. One, it includes education. Do you need a new certification? Do you need a new skill? Do you need a program? Fun fact, you do not need an MBA. Okay, just to go on record, MBAs have had their day. If you have an MBA, I'm super proud of you. Yay. But in my experience, an MBA does not have the ROI that it needs. Right. There are very few jobs that actually require an mba.
(05:52):
And even if you network, they probably loosely require an mba, they don't actually require it. So to me, that's not worth the investment. Now it's a great networking opportunity. If you really love school and you want to get your mba, who am I to tell you no? But I'm just saying don't go out and get your MBA thinking it's going to get you an executive level job. It doesn't work that way. But maybe you need a new certification. Maybe you need to learn AI. Maybe you need to spend time in a Management course. Maybe you need to go through a CFO program because you want to understand the financial implications. Like think through what that education pillar may look like in order to support your job search. Right. The second thing that you need to do is you need to have a networking strategy.
(06:27):
Right? 29% of people in the same LinkedIn poll said that they got their job from a new connection. Right? That means you're doing outreach, that means you're going to events, that means you're connecting with people you used to work with. Right? You want to be strategic about how you're building, developing and maintaining connections. I talked about this with a client a few months ago who was saying, like, I reach out to people on LinkedIn, but I never hear back. And I do think that sometimes the LinkedIn direct message can kind of be a black hole. I have hired some pretty great people who did reach out to me through LinkedIn, so I do think it can work.
(06:58):
I just think that right now LinkedIn has become a very salesy platform in the DMs and so is your message getting lost in a bunch of other sales emails. Maybe. But that being said, I do think that if you can go to event and you can meet people, that's where you're going to build connection. Great. If you are in sales and you want to pivot from retail to technology, go to a technology conference, walk around, introduce yourself to some people, have some business cards, invite them to get coffee or a drink after the event. That's where you're going to build connections that allow you to be successful. If you are in marketing, find a way to go to an agency event or go to an event within an industry you want to break into.
(07:37):
So if you want to do marketing for say health tech, go to a health tech conference, meet people at all those companies. Now you have people who can refer you. People are so much more likely to refer somebody that they've spoken to, that they like their chemistry and their vibe and their personality than they are somebody who just sent them a direct message on LinkedIn. So if you're really looking to make a pivot and a change, spend some time building those relationships. I talk about this example in my book Seekers of the Career Game. But I had a client once, I've never met anybody who networked as well as this individual, like killed it, wanted to make a career pivot, met with every single person in his ideal industry in his city. Okay, we're talking 30 plus coffee chats.
(08:18):
Anybody who was running a team in his space that he wanted to be in. He went and met with, had coffee and chatted with, and for six months, nothing happened. And then all of those individuals posted jobs in the same month. And he got four job offers. Four. That's crazy town. Okay. But put in the work, met the people, develop the relationship, stayed in touch, followed up with, went in and applied, then interviewed, did all the right things through that network. So especially if you're making a pivot, the career job market right now is built on people, human to human connection. Take the time to build your network up. So you've got an education strategy, you've got a networking strategy, then you have to have an application strategy. I'm not a huge fan of the. I was going to say something inappropriate.
(08:59):
Maybe I said, anyways, I'm not a huge fan of the, like, spray and pray application stuff style. Also, if you work with me and you're listening to this episode. No, you're not. But I do think that if you are applying to, let's say, three to five quality jobs a week, and you're meeting with individuals at your target companies and you're networking and you're asking for referrals, and you're practicing your interview skills and your stories that you're going to tell, and you've got the education to back it up, you are going to see traction in your job search. It may take a while. Right now, the job market's slow. I'm estimating six months for most clients, but you will see that traction.
(09:31):
All right, if you do these three things, then according to the study, 22% who learn a new school, a new skill for their job change ultimately got a raise. All right, so these are all of the little changes that we make that help us propel our career forward. So if you're looking to make a job change, whether you're coming out of a layoff or you're coming out of a toxic workplace, don't just feel like you have to do the same thing. Don't feel like you have to take a job with the same title or in the same industry. When the job market slows down, a lot of people kind of revert to what's comfortable. We think, I don't want to do that. I. I'm. What if I can't get a job? Or I don't know anybody in that industry or I've.
(10:09):
I've never sold makeup before. I've only ever sold shoes. That was a how to lose a guy in 10 days reference, in case you missed it. But there's. We get stuck in this cycle, and as somebody who has worked in multiple industries, in pretty much every vertical that exists, if you can sell yourself, if you know your story, if you know what makes you unique, if you're able to communicate that, and if you're able to build chemistry with someone, you will see growth in your career, you will see traction, right? The flip side of this is I have people come to me all the time and they're like, I really just want to work with an executive recruiter. Can you just put me in touch with a recruiter who will find me a job? It's not the way jobs work.
(10:46):
If you're C suite level, it's kind of how jobs work. But if you're even then, you're looking 12 to 18 months to find a C suite position generally, okay? And it's usually because you know somebody who sat on that board or who was in that C suite and they referred you to the recruiter who's recruiting for that position. The headhunters, on behalf of the head, right? Don't happen very often, right? They are trying to fill roles because they get compensated by the company, not by the individual. And so don't look at your job market and say, well, I just need someone to reach out to me, or I just need someone to come to me with the perfect opportunity. I was talking about this with another career coach on my page, Farrah.
(11:21):
We're going to do some more content together in the future as well. But the job market right now takes more labor than it ever has. It takes more time, it takes more intention, it takes more effort. It takes more outreach. If you are not doing all of these different pieces, somebody else is. And I know we don't want to. Nobody wants to, right? Nobody wakes up and is like, I love the job market. I really can't wait to sit down and have coffee chats with 312 people to try and find a job. Like, nobody loves it. Okay? Maybe that one individual that I talked about earlier who went on all those coffee, maybe he loves it. But most people, it's not the vibe, right?
(11:55):
And so the reality is that you have to put in that labor, that effort to stand out from your peers. It is the unfortunate rule of the world. And I'm even starting to see where referrals are starting to not help get interviews as much as they used to. Like, used to be, if you got a referral from somebody who's a high performer internally, bam. Interview. Now I'm starting to See even that decrease a little bit. So it is requiring that effort, is requiring that intentionality. The other flip side of this is a video that I made on my TikTok that I'm going to talk about for just a minute, which is people are talking about climbing down the corporate ladder. And I think this is a super interesting movement that we're seeing.
(12:31):
When it comes to your career pivots is rather than wanting to climb up, become more senior, continue to progress your career, people are kind of giving up and being like, dude, I, I'd rather be an individual contributor or I, I don't want to manage a team anymore. Or, you know, I'd actually rather take a demotion for a little less money and then a lot less stress. Right? And there are some personalities where I think this works, right? There are some individuals in corporate who I think can benefit from something like a intentional demotion. But for the high performing high achievers out there who are nearing burnout, frankly. Kendall Berg, honest opinion. Taking a more junior role is not going to fix that.
(13:09):
All it's going to do is decrease your influence and your clout and your scope, give you less power to fix the problems that you're facing and then still burn you out with an insane workload. I think the reason people are trying to move down the corporate ladder, with the exception of managing people, if you're just doing it because of stress and burnout and workload, until you learn to implement and maintain boundaries, the level of your position is not going to determine your workload. I have worked with VPs who had really flexible schedules and golfed on Tuesdays and took time off to go to their families, you know, recitals and baseball games. And I worked with VPs who worked every single day of their vacation until 2A. It's not the seniority that determines the flexibility.
(13:48):
It is the boundaries in the way that the individual operates within their space. So don't look at a demotion as a way to help boundary setting. It doesn't work that way. We've all been a peon who got like all of the trash work that didn't want to be done. It's not going to make you happier. It's not about getting demoted. It's about learning to install those boundaries. So I talk about this a lot when it comes to exiting a toxic workplace. But like leaving the workplace is not going to fix the work problem. You have to fix it. The way you communicate, the way you advocate for yourself, the way you build a personal brand the way you talk to people, the way you implement and maintain boundaries, those things have to change for you to be happier in your career.
(14:24):
Now, the one exception to this is if you don't want to manage people. This, I feel like, is a huge trend right now. People are like, I'm not managing anybody. I don't want to. It's a bunch of drama. It's a bunch of effort. I hate it. I get it. I do. I feel you. Do any of you guys follow that girl on TikTok who's like, I can fix that Boo. I love her. I follow all her videos. I'll have to tag her in the show notes. She doesn't do anything corporate related. It's just like you want your nails to look better. I can fix that, Boo. And I love her. She's so calming. Anyways, but all these people who don't want to be in management. Cause they're like, I don't want to fix this Yahoo's problems all day.
(14:55):
I just want to do my job and go home. I do get that. To be an effective manager, to be a good manager, you have to want to be a good manager. It takes time, right? I have individuals who's who have worked for me who are like, Kendall, I don't have time to do my job. I'm too busy managing everybody else. And I'm like, yep, that's the transition. That is middle management. That is the suckiest part of your career when you have both a job and you're managing a bunch of people. Okay. It's the hardest part of your career transition. It is. If you don't want to manage people, you're going to be a shitty leader and you're going to be miserable. So in that case, yes. Find an IC track doesn't necessarily have to be a demotion.
(15:28):
It can be a parallel path where you're just an individual contributor, not managing people. But don't take on a team. If you don't want a team, it's going to make you miserable. Now, there's one individual who may be listening to this episode who's thinking, Kendall, I said I didn't want to manage people and you made me manage people. You're totally a great manager and you needed to manage people in order to learn that you liked managing people, which I needed you to do because that's the only way you were going to replace me in the future. So if you're that one person and I made you manage people even though you didn't want to Manage people. I want you to tell me right now that you hate it. So give it a try. If you're not that one person, try it out.
(16:00):
Make sure you don't like it. But in the end, when it comes to managing individuals, it does have to be a passion, because it's not a natural thing. Nobody comes hardwired as like, I'm the world's best manager. I think about it all the time now that career coaching is my job and I have such a expansive platform and more people follow me and they see my advice. And I think about the people who reported to me in, like, 2010, 2011, 2012. If you reported to me early on in my management career, you probably listen to this and think, she didn't do any of this. And you're right, I didn't. I didn't do any of this. I was a really bad manager early on because I was so autonomous that I just expected everybody who worked for me to be autonomous.
(16:44):
To do your own thing and to kill it. And that's not the way most people work. And it took me many years to learn that and to learn how to manage effectively, especially in, like, remote environments and things. So if you are listening to this and you're like, this does not sound like the Kindle that I worked with 15 years ago. It's not. I invested a lot of time and effort to try to get better at these things. I promise. Now, my staff today would probably say that I'm a much better manager than the staff I had 15 years ago, because it is a skill that I have learned and I have honed and I've really leaned into over the last decade.
(17:10):
But if you worked for me, then I'm sorry, and I hope that you've had many better managers over the course of your career. But back on topic, I do feel like the butterfly effect in your career can be huge. You choose an individual contributor path, it's going to be a totally different career than if you chose a management path. If you stay in one career ladder vertical versus making a career pivot when you start to get miserable, you're going to have a very different career. And clients come to me all the time and they say, but, like, I've been doing this for 20 years. I've been doing this for 30 years. I'm too old to make a change. This is what I know. I'm. You are never too old to make a change.
(17:42):
Okay, I don't want to sound like one of those cat posters in the Lego Movie or In your bedroom. I'm not a cat poster. But Vera Wang did not make her first wedding dress till she was in her 40s, right? Like, you don't have to be 21 to pivot and take a different job. You don't have to be 21 to pivot and start your own company. You don't have to be 21 to pivot and decide that you want to move abroad. Like, you can do these things. I promise, as a grownup, all right? And I think about it, that career coach did not exist until my 30s, right? Which is still pretty early on in my career. Trust me, I know that. I'm very blessed to have been able to start this as young as I did.
(18:21):
But career coach did not exist in my 20s. It's a totally different job. I didn't write my first book until my mid-30s, right? I didn't start my podcast until my mid-30s. You don't have to be 21 to do these things, right? If you're in your 40s, 50s, if you're miserable, do something different. You get one life, one chance at this. I'm on a soapbox now, but you get one life, right? Make these small changes, make these tweaks. And if you're nervous about trying to do a big career pivot, try to do it internally first. Try to talk to your boss. Hey, I'd really love to get more exposure to product. Is that something that we can support? I'd love to get more exposure to marketing. I'd love to learn more about data and analytics. Hey, I just got an AI certification.
(18:59):
How can I start using AI more in my job? Do it internally at your company. If moving externally feels too big and too scary, start to make those slight pivots. It's interesting. I've had two clients in the last month come to me. Both high performers, high achieving women. Both of them came to me and were like, surprise. I quit my job in the last month. One of them to start a fabulous macaron business that's going to go totally viral. I can already tell. And I'm trying to figure out how to order myself so I'll share more about her company once it's up and running and shippable. And then another one to run a business hosting tea parties. And I'm like, do it. What if it fails? Well, then you'll go back and get a corporate job exactly like you're doing right now.
(19:39):
If you're doing a side of desk. If it fails, you'll just keep your corporate job. That you have. I know we talk a lot about corporate on this podcast. We don't talk as much about starting a company or being a CEO or building a business. And maybe we'll start to introduce more content like that. If you're interested in getting more content about that, please leave it in the comments below. But the reality is that if you want to make a pivot, if you want to make a change, the only person who suffers if you don't is you. So do the dang thing right? Make those small tweaks, make that education plan, make that networking plan, make that business strategy, and then go kill it. Don't wait for somebody else to give you approval.
(20:11):
This is, this is my soapbox episode, you guys, because this is one of my biggest pet peeves. And this is actually going to be the topic of my second book, which I am working on, which is all about getting out of your own way. Don't wait for the perfect opportunity. Don't wait for the perfect business. Don't wait for the perfect role. Don't wait for the perfect X, Y, Z. Do the thing. If you guys have followed me since Career Coach started, since my page started, which is a while ago. When was that? So it's been four years. If you have been following me since the start of career coach in 2021, the type of content I made then is totally different than the type of content I made now.
(20:44):
It was much more humor filled, much more funny skits as opposed to more educational, which is what it's kind of pivoted to. I also didn't have a podcast. I'd also never written a book. I'd also never taken a formal coaching client. I had mentored and coached a lot through my companies, but never something in the business side. I built a thing. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm going to repeat that. I have no idea what I'm doing. Nobody does. Great. If you follow Alex and Layla Hormozi, they talk about this a lot of like, we didn't know what were doing. We just built a business. We learned from it. We made mistakes. We pivoted quickly. We made a change. You can do this. You can start that butterfly effect that's going to change your life. You want to move abroad.
(21:19):
Don't wait for somebody to tell you that something is right or something makes sense or something is perfect. It's not. Do the dang thing. So I hope you enjoyed today's motivational speech and you come back to listen to more episodes about how to have career pivots and how to change your life because that's where we're at. That's our new era. But if you do have questions about how to make a pivot, if you have ideas, put them in the comments below. I'm always happy to get back to them. If you like today's episode, go ahead and give it 5 stars. Otherwise we'll be back next week with some more fun content and start checking out my mini series that are dropping on Wednesdays.
(21:52):
We're going to have mini content coming out on YouTube and on Instagram and TikTok as well as LinkedIn where we're just going to share six to ten minute versions of podcast episodes. Quick to the point. Really interesting extra content for you guys so check those out, let me know if you like it if you want more of it. Otherwise thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you back next week.
But for the high performing high achievers out there who are nearing burnout, frankly. Kendall Berg honest opinion, taking a more junior role is not going to fix that. All it's going to do is decrease your influence and your clout and your scope, give you less power to fix the problems that you're facing and then still burn you out with an insane workload. I think the reason people are trying to move down the corporate ladder is, with the exception of managing people, if you're just doing it because of stress and burnout and workload. Until you learn to implement and maintain boundaries, the level of your position is not going to determine your workload. I have worked with VPs who had really flexible schedules and golfed on Tuesdays and took time off to go to their families, you know, recitals and baseball games.
(00:47):
And I worked with VPs who worked every single day of their vacation until 2am it's not the seniority that determines the flexibility. It is the boundaries in the way that the individual operates within their welcome back to this episode of Secrets of the Career Game. So many people are trying to navigate a corporate world that is laden with secrets, cleverly hidden and unspoken rules to a game that most employees don't even know that they're playing. On this podcast, we try to give you a peek behind the curtains and some tips and tricks to ultimately make you successful in your career and help you progress a little bit faster. Hello lovelies. Welcome back for another great episode on the pod. Today we are talking about how to make tiny career moves that have a big professional glow up effect.
(01:32):
So right now the butterfly effect is having its moment on social media where it's reminding us that even the smallest changes, the smallest actions, can really shape our future job, our careers, and of course, our lives. So according to a recent LinkedIn poll, the most common butterfly effect is the post layoff career pivot. Right? So this is changing and an industry or changing your role type post layoff. And right now they're saying one in three people are using a layoff as the springboard to ultimately make that change. And I think that this is somewhat common. Right? I work with a lot of individuals who have experienced a layoff or who have been through a change in company restructuring that ultimately led to them to quit. And when we're in the moment, it sucks to get laid off.
(02:21):
All right, I'm not going to minimize that. I'm not going to tell you that your feelings are wrong. It blows to be added to a meeting one hour in the future with your HR people and be told, like, tough. Your position's been eliminated. Right? Getting laid off sucks. It does. There's no nice way to put that. There's no positive, well, you'll. You'll feel happier in the future, like, and there's nothing you can say, right, that's going to make that better. So if you've recently been laid off, you're going through a layoff, like, take a moment, sit with it, feel all the feels, give yourself a breather, take a week or two off, go to the Bahamas for all I care, and then come back and get ready to reframe your mind. But post that layoff.
(02:55):
What we don't want to do is jump from a ship that was on fire into a ship that is sinking. And I know it is hard when your financial and livelihood is on the line, right? Where you're like, hey, I've got to get into a new job because if I don't, I'm not going to be able to pay my bills. And we panic and we take some job that we know is not going to be the right fit. We know it's going to suck, but we do it anyways because we want that continuity. We don't want a gap in our resume and we want a paycheck. But you're much better off taking a little couple of steps back and realizing, what do you actually want to do?
(03:24):
Now, this could also be true if you are choosing to leave a toxic work environment or choosing to leave a work environment that's no longer supporting you or suiting your needs. So don't feel like you have to wait for a layoff to really assess your career. I just find that when you are laid off, you're kind of forced to take a step back and think about these things. So when it comes to evaluating your future career, there's a few things that you need to do. The first is you need to figure out what is it about work that you like. And I'm not talking the tactical things, right? Don't think about your marketing. Don't think about your Excel spreadsheets. Don't think about running campaigns or answering client questions. Think about the things you really love doing at work.
(04:00):
For me, I really love problem solving. I live the chaos, okay? I don't work for large stories, super structured companies because I need chaos. And more importantly, I need the space to fix the chaos, which you don't get at big companies generally in order to feel satisfied at work. So what are those things for you? Do you really love managing People you really love problem solving, you really love thinking strategically. You really love getting to ideate and innovate and come up with new things. You love building new solutions. Like, what is it that you like that's not technically related to your job, but is really what's filling your cup? Right. It's what's leaving you happy at the end of the day. Maybe it's working with a bunch of different people, I don't know. Right?
(04:39):
Figure out what those things are and then assess what the good fit jobs are for that. So I do this in my career strategy sessions with my clients and I always tell them that there might be a thousand jobs that are a good fit for what your passions are, but there's a million jobs that are not a good fit. And our goal is more to eliminate the million jobs that aren't a good fit than it is to try to hone in one job that's perfect. Because most of the time there's not a job that's perfect. And once you know what you're passionate about, then you can find what are those roles that fit you? Right. I have marketing campaign managers who come to me who end up in project management or product management.
(05:12):
I have salespeople who come to me who end up in tech development. You have to understand what is important to you, what you value, what's going to leave you feeling satisfied at work and happy. And then you need to make a career plan around that. Okay. You need to identify what those are going to be and then make a career plan. So your career plan includes a few things. One, it includes education. Do you need a new certification? Do you need a new skill? Do you need a program? Fun fact, you do not need an MBA. Okay, just to go on record, MBAs have had their day. If you have an MBA, I'm super proud of you. Yay. But in my experience, an MBA does not have the ROI that it needs. Right. There are very few jobs that actually require an mba.
(05:52):
And even if you network, they probably loosely require an mba, they don't actually require it. So to me, that's not worth the investment. Now it's a great networking opportunity. If you really love school and you want to get your mba, who am I to tell you no? But I'm just saying don't go out and get your MBA thinking it's going to get you an executive level job. It doesn't work that way. But maybe you need a new certification. Maybe you need to learn AI. Maybe you need to spend time in a Management course. Maybe you need to go through a CFO program because you want to understand the financial implications. Like think through what that education pillar may look like in order to support your job search. Right. The second thing that you need to do is you need to have a networking strategy.
(06:27):
Right? 29% of people in the same LinkedIn poll said that they got their job from a new connection. Right? That means you're doing outreach, that means you're going to events, that means you're connecting with people you used to work with. Right? You want to be strategic about how you're building, developing and maintaining connections. I talked about this with a client a few months ago who was saying, like, I reach out to people on LinkedIn, but I never hear back. And I do think that sometimes the LinkedIn direct message can kind of be a black hole. I have hired some pretty great people who did reach out to me through LinkedIn, so I do think it can work.
(06:58):
I just think that right now LinkedIn has become a very salesy platform in the DMs and so is your message getting lost in a bunch of other sales emails. Maybe. But that being said, I do think that if you can go to event and you can meet people, that's where you're going to build connection. Great. If you are in sales and you want to pivot from retail to technology, go to a technology conference, walk around, introduce yourself to some people, have some business cards, invite them to get coffee or a drink after the event. That's where you're going to build connections that allow you to be successful. If you are in marketing, find a way to go to an agency event or go to an event within an industry you want to break into.
(07:37):
So if you want to do marketing for say health tech, go to a health tech conference, meet people at all those companies. Now you have people who can refer you. People are so much more likely to refer somebody that they've spoken to, that they like their chemistry and their vibe and their personality than they are somebody who just sent them a direct message on LinkedIn. So if you're really looking to make a pivot and a change, spend some time building those relationships. I talk about this example in my book Seekers of the Career Game. But I had a client once, I've never met anybody who networked as well as this individual, like killed it, wanted to make a career pivot, met with every single person in his ideal industry in his city. Okay, we're talking 30 plus coffee chats.
(08:18):
Anybody who was running a team in his space that he wanted to be in. He went and met with, had coffee and chatted with, and for six months, nothing happened. And then all of those individuals posted jobs in the same month. And he got four job offers. Four. That's crazy town. Okay. But put in the work, met the people, develop the relationship, stayed in touch, followed up with, went in and applied, then interviewed, did all the right things through that network. So especially if you're making a pivot, the career job market right now is built on people, human to human connection. Take the time to build your network up. So you've got an education strategy, you've got a networking strategy, then you have to have an application strategy. I'm not a huge fan of the. I was going to say something inappropriate.
(08:59):
Maybe I said, anyways, I'm not a huge fan of the, like, spray and pray application stuff style. Also, if you work with me and you're listening to this episode. No, you're not. But I do think that if you are applying to, let's say, three to five quality jobs a week, and you're meeting with individuals at your target companies and you're networking and you're asking for referrals, and you're practicing your interview skills and your stories that you're going to tell, and you've got the education to back it up, you are going to see traction in your job search. It may take a while. Right now, the job market's slow. I'm estimating six months for most clients, but you will see that traction.
(09:31):
All right, if you do these three things, then according to the study, 22% who learn a new school, a new skill for their job change ultimately got a raise. All right, so these are all of the little changes that we make that help us propel our career forward. So if you're looking to make a job change, whether you're coming out of a layoff or you're coming out of a toxic workplace, don't just feel like you have to do the same thing. Don't feel like you have to take a job with the same title or in the same industry. When the job market slows down, a lot of people kind of revert to what's comfortable. We think, I don't want to do that. I. I'm. What if I can't get a job? Or I don't know anybody in that industry or I've.
(10:09):
I've never sold makeup before. I've only ever sold shoes. That was a how to lose a guy in 10 days reference, in case you missed it. But there's. We get stuck in this cycle, and as somebody who has worked in multiple industries, in pretty much every vertical that exists, if you can sell yourself, if you know your story, if you know what makes you unique, if you're able to communicate that, and if you're able to build chemistry with someone, you will see growth in your career, you will see traction, right? The flip side of this is I have people come to me all the time and they're like, I really just want to work with an executive recruiter. Can you just put me in touch with a recruiter who will find me a job? It's not the way jobs work.
(10:46):
If you're C suite level, it's kind of how jobs work. But if you're even then, you're looking 12 to 18 months to find a C suite position generally, okay? And it's usually because you know somebody who sat on that board or who was in that C suite and they referred you to the recruiter who's recruiting for that position. The headhunters, on behalf of the head, right? Don't happen very often, right? They are trying to fill roles because they get compensated by the company, not by the individual. And so don't look at your job market and say, well, I just need someone to reach out to me, or I just need someone to come to me with the perfect opportunity. I was talking about this with another career coach on my page, Farrah.
(11:21):
We're going to do some more content together in the future as well. But the job market right now takes more labor than it ever has. It takes more time, it takes more intention, it takes more effort. It takes more outreach. If you are not doing all of these different pieces, somebody else is. And I know we don't want to. Nobody wants to, right? Nobody wakes up and is like, I love the job market. I really can't wait to sit down and have coffee chats with 312 people to try and find a job. Like, nobody loves it. Okay? Maybe that one individual that I talked about earlier who went on all those coffee, maybe he loves it. But most people, it's not the vibe, right?
(11:55):
And so the reality is that you have to put in that labor, that effort to stand out from your peers. It is the unfortunate rule of the world. And I'm even starting to see where referrals are starting to not help get interviews as much as they used to. Like, used to be, if you got a referral from somebody who's a high performer internally, bam. Interview. Now I'm starting to See even that decrease a little bit. So it is requiring that effort, is requiring that intentionality. The other flip side of this is a video that I made on my TikTok that I'm going to talk about for just a minute, which is people are talking about climbing down the corporate ladder. And I think this is a super interesting movement that we're seeing.
(12:31):
When it comes to your career pivots is rather than wanting to climb up, become more senior, continue to progress your career, people are kind of giving up and being like, dude, I, I'd rather be an individual contributor or I, I don't want to manage a team anymore. Or, you know, I'd actually rather take a demotion for a little less money and then a lot less stress. Right? And there are some personalities where I think this works, right? There are some individuals in corporate who I think can benefit from something like a intentional demotion. But for the high performing high achievers out there who are nearing burnout, frankly. Kendall Berg, honest opinion. Taking a more junior role is not going to fix that.
(13:09):
All it's going to do is decrease your influence and your clout and your scope, give you less power to fix the problems that you're facing and then still burn you out with an insane workload. I think the reason people are trying to move down the corporate ladder, with the exception of managing people, if you're just doing it because of stress and burnout and workload, until you learn to implement and maintain boundaries, the level of your position is not going to determine your workload. I have worked with VPs who had really flexible schedules and golfed on Tuesdays and took time off to go to their families, you know, recitals and baseball games. And I worked with VPs who worked every single day of their vacation until 2A. It's not the seniority that determines the flexibility.
(13:48):
It is the boundaries in the way that the individual operates within their space. So don't look at a demotion as a way to help boundary setting. It doesn't work that way. We've all been a peon who got like all of the trash work that didn't want to be done. It's not going to make you happier. It's not about getting demoted. It's about learning to install those boundaries. So I talk about this a lot when it comes to exiting a toxic workplace. But like leaving the workplace is not going to fix the work problem. You have to fix it. The way you communicate, the way you advocate for yourself, the way you build a personal brand the way you talk to people, the way you implement and maintain boundaries, those things have to change for you to be happier in your career.
(14:24):
Now, the one exception to this is if you don't want to manage people. This, I feel like, is a huge trend right now. People are like, I'm not managing anybody. I don't want to. It's a bunch of drama. It's a bunch of effort. I hate it. I get it. I do. I feel you. Do any of you guys follow that girl on TikTok who's like, I can fix that Boo. I love her. I follow all her videos. I'll have to tag her in the show notes. She doesn't do anything corporate related. It's just like you want your nails to look better. I can fix that, Boo. And I love her. She's so calming. Anyways, but all these people who don't want to be in management. Cause they're like, I don't want to fix this Yahoo's problems all day.
(14:55):
I just want to do my job and go home. I do get that. To be an effective manager, to be a good manager, you have to want to be a good manager. It takes time, right? I have individuals who's who have worked for me who are like, Kendall, I don't have time to do my job. I'm too busy managing everybody else. And I'm like, yep, that's the transition. That is middle management. That is the suckiest part of your career when you have both a job and you're managing a bunch of people. Okay. It's the hardest part of your career transition. It is. If you don't want to manage people, you're going to be a shitty leader and you're going to be miserable. So in that case, yes. Find an IC track doesn't necessarily have to be a demotion.
(15:28):
It can be a parallel path where you're just an individual contributor, not managing people. But don't take on a team. If you don't want a team, it's going to make you miserable. Now, there's one individual who may be listening to this episode who's thinking, Kendall, I said I didn't want to manage people and you made me manage people. You're totally a great manager and you needed to manage people in order to learn that you liked managing people, which I needed you to do because that's the only way you were going to replace me in the future. So if you're that one person and I made you manage people even though you didn't want to Manage people. I want you to tell me right now that you hate it. So give it a try. If you're not that one person, try it out.
(16:00):
Make sure you don't like it. But in the end, when it comes to managing individuals, it does have to be a passion, because it's not a natural thing. Nobody comes hardwired as like, I'm the world's best manager. I think about it all the time now that career coaching is my job and I have such a expansive platform and more people follow me and they see my advice. And I think about the people who reported to me in, like, 2010, 2011, 2012. If you reported to me early on in my management career, you probably listen to this and think, she didn't do any of this. And you're right, I didn't. I didn't do any of this. I was a really bad manager early on because I was so autonomous that I just expected everybody who worked for me to be autonomous.
(16:44):
To do your own thing and to kill it. And that's not the way most people work. And it took me many years to learn that and to learn how to manage effectively, especially in, like, remote environments and things. So if you are listening to this and you're like, this does not sound like the Kindle that I worked with 15 years ago. It's not. I invested a lot of time and effort to try to get better at these things. I promise. Now, my staff today would probably say that I'm a much better manager than the staff I had 15 years ago, because it is a skill that I have learned and I have honed and I've really leaned into over the last decade.
(17:10):
But if you worked for me, then I'm sorry, and I hope that you've had many better managers over the course of your career. But back on topic, I do feel like the butterfly effect in your career can be huge. You choose an individual contributor path, it's going to be a totally different career than if you chose a management path. If you stay in one career ladder vertical versus making a career pivot when you start to get miserable, you're going to have a very different career. And clients come to me all the time and they say, but, like, I've been doing this for 20 years. I've been doing this for 30 years. I'm too old to make a change. This is what I know. I'm. You are never too old to make a change.
(17:42):
Okay, I don't want to sound like one of those cat posters in the Lego Movie or In your bedroom. I'm not a cat poster. But Vera Wang did not make her first wedding dress till she was in her 40s, right? Like, you don't have to be 21 to pivot and take a different job. You don't have to be 21 to pivot and start your own company. You don't have to be 21 to pivot and decide that you want to move abroad. Like, you can do these things. I promise, as a grownup, all right? And I think about it, that career coach did not exist until my 30s, right? Which is still pretty early on in my career. Trust me, I know that. I'm very blessed to have been able to start this as young as I did.
(18:21):
But career coach did not exist in my 20s. It's a totally different job. I didn't write my first book until my mid-30s, right? I didn't start my podcast until my mid-30s. You don't have to be 21 to do these things, right? If you're in your 40s, 50s, if you're miserable, do something different. You get one life, one chance at this. I'm on a soapbox now, but you get one life, right? Make these small changes, make these tweaks. And if you're nervous about trying to do a big career pivot, try to do it internally first. Try to talk to your boss. Hey, I'd really love to get more exposure to product. Is that something that we can support? I'd love to get more exposure to marketing. I'd love to learn more about data and analytics. Hey, I just got an AI certification.
(18:59):
How can I start using AI more in my job? Do it internally at your company. If moving externally feels too big and too scary, start to make those slight pivots. It's interesting. I've had two clients in the last month come to me. Both high performers, high achieving women. Both of them came to me and were like, surprise. I quit my job in the last month. One of them to start a fabulous macaron business that's going to go totally viral. I can already tell. And I'm trying to figure out how to order myself so I'll share more about her company once it's up and running and shippable. And then another one to run a business hosting tea parties. And I'm like, do it. What if it fails? Well, then you'll go back and get a corporate job exactly like you're doing right now.
(19:39):
If you're doing a side of desk. If it fails, you'll just keep your corporate job. That you have. I know we talk a lot about corporate on this podcast. We don't talk as much about starting a company or being a CEO or building a business. And maybe we'll start to introduce more content like that. If you're interested in getting more content about that, please leave it in the comments below. But the reality is that if you want to make a pivot, if you want to make a change, the only person who suffers if you don't is you. So do the dang thing right? Make those small tweaks, make that education plan, make that networking plan, make that business strategy, and then go kill it. Don't wait for somebody else to give you approval.
(20:11):
This is, this is my soapbox episode, you guys, because this is one of my biggest pet peeves. And this is actually going to be the topic of my second book, which I am working on, which is all about getting out of your own way. Don't wait for the perfect opportunity. Don't wait for the perfect business. Don't wait for the perfect role. Don't wait for the perfect X, Y, Z. Do the thing. If you guys have followed me since Career Coach started, since my page started, which is a while ago. When was that? So it's been four years. If you have been following me since the start of career coach in 2021, the type of content I made then is totally different than the type of content I made now.
(20:44):
It was much more humor filled, much more funny skits as opposed to more educational, which is what it's kind of pivoted to. I also didn't have a podcast. I'd also never written a book. I'd also never taken a formal coaching client. I had mentored and coached a lot through my companies, but never something in the business side. I built a thing. I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm going to repeat that. I have no idea what I'm doing. Nobody does. Great. If you follow Alex and Layla Hormozi, they talk about this a lot of like, we didn't know what were doing. We just built a business. We learned from it. We made mistakes. We pivoted quickly. We made a change. You can do this. You can start that butterfly effect that's going to change your life. You want to move abroad.
(21:19):
Don't wait for somebody to tell you that something is right or something makes sense or something is perfect. It's not. Do the dang thing. So I hope you enjoyed today's motivational speech and you come back to listen to more episodes about how to have career pivots and how to change your life because that's where we're at. That's our new era. But if you do have questions about how to make a pivot, if you have ideas, put them in the comments below. I'm always happy to get back to them. If you like today's episode, go ahead and give it 5 stars. Otherwise we'll be back next week with some more fun content and start checking out my mini series that are dropping on Wednesdays.
(21:52):
We're going to have mini content coming out on YouTube and on Instagram and TikTok as well as LinkedIn where we're just going to share six to ten minute versions of podcast episodes. Quick to the point. Really interesting extra content for you guys so check those out, let me know if you like it if you want more of it. Otherwise thanks so much for tuning in and we'll see you back next week.
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