June 16, 2025 • 35 mins
Amanda Wolfe built a 300K+ community from her bedroom—but that’s not where her story starts. Growing up in poverty, with parents addicted to drugs, Amanda moved 12 times before sixth grade. She became the first person in her family to graduate college, only to discover that a salary alone wasn’t enough to build financial security.
In this candid conversation, Amanda reveals how staying at her first job for 12 years became her biggest financial mistake, how she finally doubled her income, and why most people are financially stuck—even with “good jobs.” Kendall and Amanda break down why financial literacy is the real ABCs of adulthood, and how anyone can start building true financial freedom—without waiting for the perfect moment.
They unpack the toxic comfort zones keeping people stuck, why obsessing over specific financial goals changes everything, and how to prepare financially before making a career pivot. Plus, Amanda shares the unfiltered truth about side hustles, social media income myths, and why most influencers don’t make real money from followers alone.
In this episode, we discuss:
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What should you do if you feel financially behind in your 30s?
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How much should you really save in your emergency fund?
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Is it worth staying at a job just for comfort?
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How to overcome fear when changing jobs or negotiating salary?
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Do side hustles and social media actually make real money?
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Amanda Wolfe
I’m a self-taught financial educator who has built a community of over 300,000+ people to increase financial literacy for all. I was born into extreme poverty, and despite it all, I’ve reached a point in my 30s where I could stop saving any money and still retire comfortably in my early 40s.I have partnered with multi-million dollar corporations, created multiple money management courses, am a regular contributor to BiggerPockets Money podcast, and founded SHEWOLFEOFWALLSTREET, a community where I help thousands of friends, families, and strangers create debt payoff strategies, budgets and invest so that they can achieve financial freedom.
Website: shewolfeofwallstreet.com and our
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kendall Berg (00:00):
What would you say for women, for men, for people who are in a job that they hate, but they're maybe afraid to walk away because they have a lot of the same fears you and I have of like, well, I can't not have money.
I can't be without.
You know, how would you talk them through that?
What financial strategies would you recommend to help them kind of navigate that?
Amanda Wolfe (00:20):
The first company I started working at right after college, I stayed there for 12 years.
And I to this day say that it was my biggest financial mistake that I've ever made because I was so comfortable.
I moved around jobs.
I got, like, promoted here and there, moved, you know, verticals.
And so it was just enough to keep me interested enough.
And I'm, you know, getting these little incremental raises and I'm like, well, I'm getting paid more than I was before.
(00:43):
That's great.
I'm good at it.
I have so much flexibility.
You, like, gaslight yourself into thinking that this is just the best job ever, even though you know deep down in your core that you are ready to kind of spread your wings.
Kendall Berg (00:55):
Welcome back to this episode of See Secrets of the career Game.
So many people are trying to navigate a corporate world that is laden with secrets, cleverly hidden and unspoken rules to a game that most employees don't even know that they're playing.
On this podcast, we try to give you a peek behind the curtains and some tips and tricks to ultimately make you successful in your career and help you progress a little bit faster.
(01:19):
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome back to another fabulous episode.
I cannot tell you how excited I am about today's guest.
Today we have Amanda Wolf with us, and she is the founder of the she Wolf of Wall Street.
And as somebody whose husband has watched the Wolf of Wall street like 5,000 times, it was obviously match made in heaven to have you on the pod.
I'm really jazzed about it.
But she is a self taught financial educator.
(01:40):
She has built a community of over 300,000 people who she helps on a regular basis and went from having no money to being able to stop working in her 30s and retire if she wanted to.
So huge trajectory change.
Welcome, Amanda.
We're so excited to have you on the show.
Amanda Wolfe (01:55):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm super excited to be here.
Kendall Berg (01:58):
So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you, about the she wolf of Wall street and why financial literacy and knowledge is so important to you.
Amanda Wolfe (02:06):
Sure.
Yeah.
So the she wolf of Wall street started really as a little COVID side project from my bedroom, as you know, all those types of stories do.
But for me, money has always been very top of mind money.
Like everybody wants more money, right?
But for me, it's always been really top of mind.
Because I grew up super poor, grew up in poverty.
(02:28):
My parents were both addicted to hard drugs and other substances.
So growing up, I went without a lot of my, you know, basic necessities.
Moving around from house to house, stealing food from grocery stores and gas stations for my brother and me, months without showering.
Like we're talking like real poverty.
And so when I was little, I would always ask my mom, like why I couldn't have like new clothes for school or why we couldn't like go to McDonald's or you know, why Santa didn't come to our house and things like that.
(02:56):
And it was always because we didn't have money.
So for me, like my five year old, six year old, seven year old brain was like, okay, we have to find a way to get money because that seems to be the answer to all the things that we need in life.
And how do I get more money?
I have to be really good in school.
So as a child I focused on just being the best in school that I possibly could.
(03:17):
Was very competitive, which was tough because I moved around a lot.
I went to 12 schools between third and sixth grade alone.
It was, it was absolutely tough.
But for me, just like focusing on the education piece was really important.
Then I go through high school, I get my own apartment in high school, and I'm still focusing on college.
Go to the University of Illinois, graduate with a bachelor's degree.
(03:40):
First person in my family to ever go to college.
So it was like a really mind blow, glowing experience for me.
And it's still like one of the proudest moments of my whole life.
So it was really tough.
But education was always the goal.
Like, okay, I got the college degree, great.
I got my first big girl job.
Let's do this.
And then a year into this, like big girl job, I did my taxes and saw that I made $77,000.
(04:04):
And this is like 2009 money, okay?
So that's like a million dollars to a 22 year old who has grown up in poverty, did my taxes, found out I made $77,000 and was like, where the heck did all of my money go?
You know, I'm still, I still have these student loans, I still have like a little credit card debt.
I'm barely scraping by.
I was supposed to get a college degree, join the corporate world.
(04:26):
And then I was going to be living the life and having money for all of these things.
And then that's when I realized I don't actually know anything about money.
I'm over here just grinding day in and day out with my corporate job.
I got the side hustles, I'm doing all the things.
I still have nothing to show for it.
And then at age 22, is when I decided to start learning everything I could about money.
What is this one K my job is offering?
Like, what is an hsa?
(04:48):
Like, how do I invest?
How do I make sure I'm not going to lose all my money?
Literally was calling Fidelity to understand, calling Chase bank to understand all of this stuff.
And so over the years, since 22, I have taught myself everything there is to know around just, you know, basic financial literacy skills and then up leveling from there.
And when I was in, like my early days and even later 20s, I just assumed that everybody else knew this stuff and that their parents had taught it to them.
(05:15):
And.
And since I didn't exactly have exemplary role models there, that's maybe why I missed that boat.
Then I realized later 20s, I started helping a lot of my friends, and I learned that they didn't know this stuff either.
So Covid came along.
I started she Whip of Wall street just to kind of teach more people about financial literacy.
Cause it was a thing I'm super passionate about.
(05:36):
It was a time where money was top of mind for a lot of people.
So I said, you know what?
I'm going to come in here and just for funsies, start the Instagram, put myself out there and.
And then it has really kind of progressed from there.
So that's where I started it.
I was, I was like, you know, there's not a lot of stuff out there dedicated or focused on women.
I want hot pink and girly and feminine, but I want it to be super accessible and easy to understand when it comes to this stuff, because it can be really intimidating.
(06:03):
So that's kind of like my story.
That's my jam.
That's how I got to where I am today.
And then that's, you know, why I decided to focus on this topic specifically.
And I'll say my last name is actually Wolf, so the name kind of organically came together.
And I'm not the scary, like, Wolf of Wall street bros that you read about.
I want to be, like, inclusive and, like, easy to understand and, like, no gatekeeping.
(06:25):
That's kind of my mantra there.
Kendall Berg (06:27):
I love it.
And Your story is so, I think, natural for the progression of what your life was like.
Right.
And I'm someone who's very risk adverse.
Right.
We could have a whole separate conversation where we talk about our upbringings, but I was terrified of not having money.
This is like a huge fear of mine.
And similarly was not much financial literacy.
(06:50):
So this was like an adult learned thing.
I've worked in wealth management and banking for 15 years.
A lot of what I've learned has been self taught over that journey.
But I love how you're bringing it to people because I think, you know, were raised in a generation that didn't talk about money.
It was not good to talk about money.
And so as a result, there was no education on money either.
And then a lot of us get into college.
(07:12):
And I remember a friend of mine had a credit card.
She's like, credit cards are great.
You, like, don't even really have to pay them and like these things.
I'm like, that is not how credit cards work.
And I don't know who told you that, but that's not how that works.
You will definitely have to pay that at some point.
Amanda Wolfe (07:25):
A gift card that has unlimited funds that you.
Kendall Berg (07:27):
Yeah, exactly.
So I love this because I think it's definitely much needed.
When I think about my audience and the group who's listening to this, what would you say for women, for men, for people who are in a job that they hate, but they're maybe afraid to walk away because they have a lot of the same fears you and I have of like, well, I can't not have money.
I can't be without, you know, how would you talk them through that?
(07:50):
What financial strategies would you recommend to help them kind of navigate that?
Amanda Wolfe (07:55):
Yeah.
So I will say that I get it because we need money for every single thing in our lives, right?
Like the shoes we put on our feet to walk each day, like the mattresses we sleep on to go to the doctor for anything.
And so it can be really scary just thinking about disruption when it comes to that.
Especially if you don't have a, you know, strong financial foundation or a strong support system financially if all heck were to break loose.
(08:23):
So I will say that I can absolutely empathize.
My.
The first company I started working at right after college, I stayed there for 12 years.
And I to this day say that it was my biggest financial mistake that I've ever made because I was so comfortable.
I moved around jobs, I got like promoted here and there, removed, you know, verticals.
And so it was just enough to keep me interested enough.
(08:45):
And I'm, you know, getting these little incremental raises, and I'm like, well, I'm getting paid more than I was before.
That's great.
I'm good at it.
I have so much flexibility.
You, like, gaslight yourself into thinking that this is just the best job ever, even though you know deep down in your core that you are ready to kind of spread your wings.
So I will say that I can absolutely empathize.
I stay there for 12 years.
(09:06):
Biggest financial mistake when I went to leave that company.
Again, very scary.
Will I have the same flexibility?
Well, what if I get fired?
Will the other company take me back?
So going down like that rabbit hole, first of all, I will say the grass is a lot of times greener on the other side.
I ended up getting paid double what that previous company had paid me.
(09:27):
I was, like, sitting here thinking, oh, my gosh, if I'm getting paid double, you know, and I negotiated to a degree, but I feel like I probably didn't even negotiate well enough because I already felt like that was, you know, $5 million in my salary at the time.
Like, okay, like, I'm going to be the next Elon Musk over here.
But, you know, that is when I realized, like, I have got to take a step back.
(09:48):
Like, how did I get to this point?
And it was all down to, like, my comfort level.
So I think the thing that allowed me to actually finally leave was to, I like to say, like, let's go down all the different rabbit holes.
Okay, let's say I get to this new company and I absolutely hate it.
What could I do?
Could I go back to the previous company?
Well, yeah, I mean, I had, like, top rating review for all 12 years that I was there.
(10:12):
I built up a huge network of people.
Like, I know they're going to be sad to lose me.
I could probably easily go back.
All right, well, let's say they won't take me back then What?
Like, well, am I.
Am I not going to be able to pay my rent?
Will I not be able to buy groceries?
Like, what's going to happen?
Well, no, you know, I actually have this many months of savings, so I know that's okay.
Okay, well, what if I go through all of those months of savings and I still don't have a job and the other companies still won't take me back?
(10:35):
Okay, well, you know, I have, like, a brokerage account that I could dip into.
I could always work a side job and, like, drive for Lyft or something.
Like, it's not like you have to be without any income.
So I think if you almost like, catastrophize the situation and think, let's assume the worst possible thing happens here and then let's go down a rabbit hole and then you realize I sound like a nut job, all of these things are probably not going to happen.
(10:56):
Like, I know that I'm smart, I know that I'm capable.
I know that, like, any company would be super lucky to have me.
That is not going to happen.
I'm not going to have nobody pick me up after years.
I have this, you know, financial security blanket over here.
We're going to be all right.
But, yeah, I get that it's scary, but I say my biggest advice, catastrophize the situation.
Let yourself go down all the bad rabbit holes, lay it all out, and then realize, like, oh, this is probably not all going to happen and it is going to be okay.
Kendall Berg (11:23):
Amanda, it's such great advice because I feel like so often, especially on social media, we hear like, you're overthinking it or you're just being anxious or like, yolo, it'll be fun.
But I do exactly what you're describing, which is, okay, let's run down all of the worst case scenarios.
What do I need to do?
What is my timeline?
(11:44):
How much space can I give myself?
What does that look like?
And you're so right that once you think about all the things that could go horribly wrong, a lot of the time you're like, eh, it's really not that bad.
Or like, I've got a really long Runway before it gets really bad.
Amanda Wolfe (11:57):
Right?
Right.
My husband divorces me, then what?
Well, you know, I'll go get an apartment.
Like you just, I think, catastrophizing to like the worst possible.
And then you realize, you know, we're fine, we got this, gonna be over.
And I love that.
Kendall Berg (12:11):
So you talk about having this financial plan and financial safety net.
Right?
And you talked about having so many months savings, having a brokerage account you could dip into.
Somebody's listening to this and they are where you were 15 years ago.
They don't have financial literacy.
They don't know what's going on.
But they want to build that financial safety net and situation.
(12:32):
What do they need to do?
Like, what does that actually look like for somebody who maybe works a traditional job?
What do they need to be doing with their money so that they can catastrophize situations and give themselves a little bit Of Runway.
Amanda Wolfe (12:44):
Yeah.
So first I would say just build some basic financial literacy skills.
And I know that is like, oh, okay, Amanda, I'm just going to learn this overnight.
No, but I like to say that financial literacy is the ABCs of adulthood.
So I want you to.
And I will answer this question, but I want you to, like, think back for a second to, like, little kid, you.
(13:05):
You probably don't remember learning the ABCs.
Or if you have kids, think about teaching your kids the ABCs.
What if they sat down and was like, I don't have time to learn 26 letters.
Are you kidding me?
In order.
There's no way.
You wouldn't be able to read.
You wouldn't be able to write.
You probably would not have the job you have right now if you had not learned your ABCs.
So financial literacy, the ABCs of adulthood.
You spend so much of your life and time working for money.
(13:28):
Now it's time to spend just a few minutes learning about how that money works and how to make that money work for you.
So you do not need to be looking at a bunch of crazy stock charts and analyzing stocks.
No, no.
We're talking about just some basic stuff here.
Let's learn, you know, how much to save.
How do I actually save?
How do I make it easier on myself?
(13:49):
You know, just.
Just like you ha.
You probably have money coming out of your paycheck to go into your 401k, even if you don't know what that is.
That's okay.
We're going to start somewhere.
We do not have to become financial experts here.
Right?
Let's just talk about the minimum viable product here.
Like, what are the basics I need to know?
Okay, well, I'm going to.
I'm getting a 5% match at my company, but I don't have anything going in.
(14:10):
I'm just going to go put in 5%.
Pick what they suggest for me and my age.
That's a great place to start.
That's what I did at 22.
Then you can later go.
Go and change those things.
Let's start there.
Okay, well, now, you know, I need to have some savings.
How do It?
Well, just like we automated that 1k, let's automate those savings.
Especially if you're somebody out there who's a spender.
You're like, you know, Friday hits, and you're like, yeah, baby, we are going out.
(14:33):
We're getting cocktails.
No, no, let's go ahead and get rid of that money before you even see it.
Just like we would with the 401k, let's send that over to savings.
So there are some things you can put in place to make it easier on yourself.
But I would say, like, the basics.
Let's get an emergency fund.
Let's have, like, you know, can.
Can we say an oh, crap fund, if you will.
I want to call it an oh, shit fund if you can.
(14:55):
But otherwise an oh, crap fund if you want to have some things in place to help us in case something were to happen.
We spend so much time working for this money.
Let's make sure it's working for us, too.
You know, we like.
I like a matching workout set just as much as everybody else.
I like having my nails done, too.
But I will tell you that, like, the coziness that comes along with financial security beats out all of those things any day.
Kendall Berg (15:22):
I love it.
And it's.
It's one of those things where I would argue a lot of us know these things logically, right?
I should have savings check, right?
And I think that we know it.
And then we see that cute workout set or that our friends are going out for dinner.
I had a client once in New York who's like, I eat out six days a week with my friends in New York.
(15:45):
I'm like, oh, my God, how much must that cost?
Right?
Like, food alone.
And so I think, you know, you're hitting the nail on the head.
We have to start with that financial literacy.
We have to set up those safety nets.
So what are some of those things?
Like, how much should we be saving?
How much should we have in savings?
Should there be certain types of accounts we open?
Like, what would be your recommendations?
As somebody who has done the studies, has learned this financial literacy, what would you tell the average person to start looking into?
Amanda Wolfe (16:12):
So first, I would say the first thing you have to get right is your mind.
And I know that sounds counterintuitive, but just like, you know.
You know, you should eat the food that you have in your refrigerator before going out to eat, right?
Like, what makes you actually go cook that meal?
You know, you should.
You should actually go to the Pilates class that you paid for.
(16:32):
But what makes you actually get there?
Kendall Berg (16:34):
So.
Amanda Wolfe (16:34):
So I do think that you can know which savings account to go open and you can know which brokerage account to go open and what to invest in.
You can know all those things.
But if you don't have, like, your mindset right first, it doesn't matter if all of those things exist.
You have to become, like, so obsessed with your goals and get your mindset right first before I think that anybody will be successful in those other things.
(16:57):
So if you are, you know, if you are somebody who maybe didn't grow up with a strong financial foundation, you know, maybe your parents fought about money a lot or you grew up super poor or, you know, it's just always been this black box, this, like, mystery piece.
Let's go ahead and learn some basics, but also let's work on us.
Like, why do I want money?
Why do I want savings?
(17:17):
Those might sound like obvious questions, but it's not the same answer for everyone.
And then I think when somebody does a little soul searching on that's, that's when they can start becoming obsessed with their goals.
If it's like, I want to save money because I'm tired of working a corporate job and I would love to start my own graphic design business or something, or I want to save money because, you know, I want to take my kids to Disney.
(17:40):
And I have.
I never got to go to Disney as a kid.
And it's like their favorite thing ever.
And I really want to be able to do that, come up with these things, like, literally write them down and then become so obsessed with them that it makes you so excited that you're like, yes, I'm taking my family to Disney this year or I'm going to buy, you know, we're all going to go to Mexico.
I've always wanted to leave the country and go to I hate the cold and go to Mexico for Christmas or, you know, whatever your thing is.
(18:05):
And it will become so much easier to say no to, like, drinks on Friday after work when you're obsessed with those goals.
And then if you start voicing it, you will actually a lot of times find that other people want to talk about this stuff too.
Like, oh, you know what?
I'm not doing happy hour this summer because we're saving up for, you know, Mexico this Christmas.
(18:26):
And you'll find that people are like, oh, my gosh, wait, that's great.
You want it?
Should we get drinks at my house instead or something?
Or let's stay at the office.
You'll find that other people are really easily persuaded the other way when it comes to spending money.
So I will say mindset first.
Then if you want to do, like, the tactical things, which was the original question you asked me, I would say you want an emergency fund just in case, you know, something hits the fan here.
(18:52):
The amount of your emergency fund will be different for every single person because we all spend different amounts of money, so three to six months is usually suggested.
Three months of necessities, not nails and Uber Eats type stuff.
But how much do I need to keep the lights on and still eat from the grocery store?
What are my basic bare necessities here?
(19:13):
Three months, I would say is fine if you are somebody who could easily get a job of similar pay tomorrow.
A lot of people are not reliant on you.
You're kind of responsible for yourself.
Probably three months is fine.
You might want closer to six to nine months, though, if you're somebody who's maybe an executive level person where your jobs are fewer and further between.
(19:34):
And it's going to be a little more difficult for you to get, you know, pay of a similar level where you are now.
Or if you have four kids and you are the breadwinner of the family, you might want a little longer of a Runway because I hear kids are pretty expensive.
So I think it depends on your situation.
You're responsible for you, only smaller.
(19:54):
The more people you're responsible for, the harder it is to find a job a little bit bigger.
And that takes, like, adding up how much you're actually spending each month on the necessities.
And that can be a really scary and eye opening exercise if you've never done it before.
So a little larger, though, if you have people you're taking care of.
So I think that's the place I would start.
Kendall Berg (20:14):
Tactically, Amanda, it's such good advice that you're giving because I do think the mindset piece is huge, right?
It's the same with, I'm going to use health and fitness.
It's like a parallel example.
You're like, I want to get in shape, but we don't know why.
We don't have good goals and we don't understand.
You're like, oh, chocolate chip cookies, which are my weakness.
And by the way, if you're listening to this and you're like, don't hate on chocolate chip cookies.
(20:36):
I had two yesterday.
So there's zero judgment.
Amanda Wolfe (20:38):
Okay.
Kendall Berg (20:39):
But I think you're right that if your mindset's not there, it doesn't work as well.
Now I know myself, I'm a goal oriented person.
If I have a deadline and a goal, ooh, I can make amazing things happen.
If it's just in general, I want to better with money, it's probably never going to happen because it's not clear enough.
I don't have a deadline, I don't have a goal.
I Don't have an objective.
And so there's no like, incentive for me really to change any behavior.
(21:02):
So I think starting with the mindset piece really is so huge for any areas of our life that we're looking to change.
Right.
Because it's not just gonna happen tomorrow.
Because, you know, you should save six months salary.
It's not like you're gonna wake up tomorrow, check your bank account, be like, yeah, it's there.
Amanda Wolfe (21:18):
Yeah.
Oh, I should save money.
Never thought about that before.
Cool.
Yeah, no, totally.
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (21:24):
The mindset shift is great.
I think having that safety net of your salary.
What's been interesting in my line of work lately is there's so many more layoffs.
There were governmental layoffs this year.
Last year there was a lot of big tech layoffs.
So many clients coming to me saying, hey, I've been unemployed three months, six months, nine months, and I'm looking for that next job.
If those people did not have that Runway, you were in a bad spot very quickly.
(21:46):
Right.
And we talked about catastrophizing.
I don't know if that's a word.
Amanda Wolfe (21:50):
But I'm rolling with it earlier.
Kendall Berg (21:51):
It's totally a word.
If it's not, it's a word to yourself.
But if you think, okay, if I lost my job, what would happen?
And the answer is, I'm homeless in three weeks, we have a problem, right?
Like, that is scary.
So starting with that mindset, setting up that savings, these are all great.
What would you say for somebody who's listening to this and they're like, oh, shit, I'm behind and I don't have a Runway and I don't feel safe with my financial freedom.
(22:19):
What would you tell them to go do?
Because you've been there, you shared your story of an incredible transformation from poverty to being able to retire at 30.
What would you tell somebody who's like, oh, my God, I'm 35, I feel behind.
I'm panicking.
What's the advice?
Amanda Wolfe (22:37):
So I would say, first of all, I think that we all feel behind.
Like I always say, I would have started investing in kindergarten had I understood how compound interest works.
Like, I would have been taking the girl Scout money, putting it, you know, like in an investment account.
But we can't, like dwell on those things because we can't go back in time.
So instead of beating yourself up, right, let's go ahead and stop doing that.
(23:00):
It comes back to the mental thing.
It comes back to the mindset thing.
We're not going to beat ourselves up we're going to try to move forward here.
So I would say if you feel behind, the first thing that you can do is, well, I guess it depends.
Do you have any debt?
If you have any debt, let's go ahead and start looking that in the face.
And let's try to understand how we got into debt into the, in the first place.
(23:24):
Was it, you know, some mindless shopping and eating out a little bit too much and going on vacations you couldn't afford, or was it some medical bills that you put on a credit card that you shouldn't have?
Like, is it something that just happened or is it something that you kind of did to yourself?
And so we're not going to beat ourselves up, but we're going to look at the situation and understand how we got in that position in the first place and then we're going to work on slowly unraveling those habits.
(23:47):
Now, I am not saying don't ever go out to eat or don't ever order in, but I am saying we got to drastically cut out all of the extras until we can kind of get a handle on things because otherwise you're only going to continue to run on that treadmill backwards.
So that's the first thing.
If you, if you have debt, if you don't have debt, if you're just like, I don't have any debt, but I'm just spending every penny that comes in, well, then we need to do a little soul searching.
(24:14):
And I think it's what we talked about in the beginning.
So based on how much money you have are making today, is it that you're just spending too much or is it that it's just covering the bare necessities Right now?
Let's say you're spending too much.
Well, I think for time's sake purpose here, let's go ahead and investigate what we can not spend as much on.
But let's say that you're somebody who's like, my expenses are high, like I'm paying for daycare, the mortgage.
(24:37):
We have all these life things that I'm paying for and it's barely cutting it.
We don't have a lot of extra.
So we've not invested a lot.
But we're not in debt.
And that's kind of just where we are.
We're at status quo here.
So then I would say, okay, well, are there, I'm not going to say don't get pizza on Fridays because you not spending $50 once a week is not going to move the need.
(24:59):
So I would say, are there any other large things in your life that you could downgrade?
Like let's swallow our pride a little bit.
Do we need to have, you know, the latest Range Rover or whatever?
Like can we downgrade some of those large expenses in our life?
Could we get a roommate?
Could we, you know, depending what your situation is, like bring in some rent money that way, anything that's the largest expense that would move the needle, take that and start investing it.
(25:26):
Most people have something that they can downgrade.
Whether they are willing to swallow their pride or not is another situation.
But most people have something.
The other thing is there a side hustle or a small second job that you can pick up?
I am not saying go work a second job for the next 20 years, but to move the needle, we either have to spend less or make more.
(25:50):
And people don't like when I say that.
But that's just those are the two situations that we have here.
Those are the two options.
So if you can't spend less, then you need to find a way to make more that could be leaving your current job negotiating more somewhere else.
I also know that's not a flip of the switch thing that's going to happen tomorrow.
But could you do something on the side?
Whether you know, it's a job through like upwork, maybe graphic design or translating or you know, is there something you could do on the side, dog walking or pet sitting or something like that wouldn't necessarily disrupt your day to day corporate job?
(26:26):
Or have you been at your corporate job a little too long?
You're a little too comfortable?
Well, let's go ahead and just poke around and see what else is out there.
You poking around doesn't mean you have to leave your job today, but it does allow you to kind of start pulling the curtain back a little bit to see what else is out there.
So I know that's not always a fun answer for people, but either make more or spend less.
(26:48):
And we do that by either negotiating more, picking up a side hustle, or cutting some of our large expenses that we have today.
Kendall Berg (26:57):
And it's definitely reality what we're talking about, right?
I pride myself that my podcast and my channel are like the no BS version of what you need to do.
And I feel like you're very similar in that we're like, hey, the no BS version is make more, spend less, move on.
These are what you got to do.
And I'm glad that we touched on side hustles.
As well, because something that I'm seeing shift pretty dramatically in the corporate landscape.
(27:17):
Part of this is frankly inflationary driven lately, but part of it is just society at this point is like, well, I don't want to just do a corporate job.
I want to do something on the side.
I want to make a little extra cash.
I had an employee who told me, he's like, hey, I'm going to start driving for Lyft.
Is that a problem?
Like, I don't care if you drive, as long as you're not doing it during work hours.
You know, go for it.
Right.
(27:38):
I think that the world of the side hustle is picking up.
Right.
You said you started she wolf of Wall street, basically, as a side hustle in Covid of like, I'm gonna see what this does and if I can build a community and if it's helpful.
And career coach was something similar for me.
I had been coaching for years.
My husband had been begging me to talk about it on social media.
And I was like, who wants to listen to me talk on social media about work?
Amanda Wolfe (28:01):
Nobody.
Kendall Berg (28:02):
And then fast forward, you know, it's.
It's definitely a huge part of what I do on a daily basis.
So I think it's important to bring up the side hustle something.
I would caution people who are listening about side hustles, like, don't expect a.
A quick fix.
Like, there are jobs that could be a quick charge.
You want to drive for Lyft?
Do you want to take some accounts on, fiverr your upwork or whatever?
Yes.
(28:22):
But if you're like, I'm gonna post a video and become a social media influencer who makes a million dollars a year, like, that's not how that works.
Amanda Wolfe (28:30):
No, that is a very good.
That is a very good thing to call out because people do tend to think that, like, when I started, she wolf, I didn't necessarily think that I was gonna make money off of it.
I just did it because I genuinely liked it.
So I would also say if you're going to go that route, it needs to be something you are obsessed with because it is a ton of work, as you can probably attest to.
(28:52):
Like, I didn't make a.
Let's see, I made my first dollar.
Let's like, seven months later.
Like, is when I made.
Started making a little bit of money.
Now, not enough money to, like, go and, you know, quit my job or anything, but that was when I started seeing a baby return on my investment.
And imagine at that point, I put in, like, hundreds of hours already.
So yeah.
That is not a quick thing that needs to be on the side of whatever your side hustle is.
(29:16):
If you're gonna go.
If you're gonna go that route.
Kendall Berg (29:19):
Yeah, I totally agree.
And it's funny because people listening are probably like.
But now they have these giant platforms.
It's also really important to understand that, like, social media from a money making perspective is a really weird business.
Amanda Wolfe (29:30):
Yes.
Kendall Berg (29:30):
Where like, you don't really get paid to have followers or even really to get views.
Like, maybe you made like, I think I made $5 off a video once and I was like, ooh, it's a very popular video.
Amanda Wolfe (29:40):
Look at that, $5, $90 one time.
And it had like 7 million views.
So I don't exactly.
It's like one off.
It's not a lot.
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (29:49):
You're not making bank off the video itself.
You're making money off of building a business around what your social media is or brand deals or whatever.
And I laugh because I have a good friend who runs a social media business who makes about 700,000 a year.
She does huge brand deals every single month.
I do like a brand deal a year.
Right.
And so it's totally different.
(30:11):
So I just wanted to have that quick side for listening who's like, I'm just going to start an Instagram account like Amanda and Kendall and make a million dollars.
Like, I don't know about you, but I don't make a million dollars like it is.
Amanda Wolfe (30:22):
It's very hard to start making money.
And to your point, it's.
People think that you make money just because you have followers.
And that is like, not.
But it is kind of a black box.
So.
Kendall Berg (30:31):
Yeah.
Amanda Wolfe (30:31):
Well, we'll go ahead and tell you don't just get paid for having followers.
Kendall Berg (30:35):
Yeah.
So start.
One, if you're really passionate about something, if you love talking about your work or you love talking about money, do it.
Have a blast.
Amanda Wolfe (30:41):
Yes.
Kendall Berg (30:42):
Do not be expecting for that to be your, like, solo bank account in two weeks.
Anyways, we got off topic, but I think that's really important to say.
I get that question all the time.
People will book calls with me and they're like, how do you become famous on social media?
I'm like, well, one, I am not.
Amanda Wolfe (30:55):
And two, I don't know.
Kendall Berg (30:58):
Exactly.
So I love all of this.
We talked about a lot of different topics.
You know, the average person listening to this is working a job.
They're feeling stressed, they're financially strapped, because, let's be honest, 20, 25, it's tough out here.
Inflation has been its own beast.
So people who are listening, who are like, okay, I feel inspired.
(31:18):
Amanda has given me great topics of like, how I can get started.
What's one thing you want to tell them to do tomorrow?
Like, hey, you've listened to this.
You're ready to take control of your finances.
Go do this one thing.
Amanda Wolfe (31:29):
So the first thing I would say is to just start, like, do something.
I don't care if it's, open your bank account and look at it for the first time because you haven't looked at it in like weeks or months because that's really scary and freaks you out.
That used to be me.
I didn't even want to look at it.
So maybe you're there, okay.
Or maybe you're a little further along.
Maybe you are somebody who's not in debt.
(31:49):
You're just hoarding your savings.
You're not investing.
Okay, well, I want you to first of all figure out how much you need in savings.
Like, I want you to like, literally.
Okay, wait, no, you said just pick one thing.
Okay, so there's.
The one thing is if you're scared, if you've not done anything, just go look at your accounts.
Like start there, okay?
That's the somebody maybe who's a little in a darker place.
(32:12):
We'll say we're just going to start there.
Now if you're not, let's say, like, things are all right, but they could better, then what I do want you to do is I want you to sit down and look at how much you're spend, how much you've spent over the last three months on different things.
Like, I want you to literally add up your groceries, you're eating out, you're shopping, and I want you to just take a little peek into that because that can be the most eye opening activity.
(32:37):
And that can drive change.
I have seen that drive change more than anything else, which is, wow, I did not realize I am spending twelve hundred dollars a month at TJ Maxx or something.
Right?
Every month.
Or old maybe, or like something where it's just like, I only get a couple sweaters or I got candles.
I'm like, you're spending twelve hundred dollars a month on candles, my friend.
(33:00):
Go add it up and literally see where your money is going.
And it might make you a little sick at first, but that is what's going to drive change.
That's what's going to get your booty in Motion to be like, all right, I am done spending twelve hundred dollars a month on candles or whatever your thing ends up being.
I'm ready to put that money to work.
And then that's when we can go on to steps 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
(33:20):
But I would say that's the first thing to do tactically is like, let me see what I'm spending on.
That way I will know how much money I could put towards any debt or how much I can invest or how much I can save for a vacation or, you know, what have you.
But I think knowing what you have to work with is going to be the absolute first thing to start with.
So that's what I would say.
Kendall Berg (33:40):
Great advice.
Take the time, sit there, think through what you're actually spending.
It'll be eye opening and probably make you a little bit depressed.
I remember when I learned I used to spend $700 a month at Starbucks.
I worked for a company based in New York, and there was a Starbucks in the lobby.
And so every time you had a break in calls, everybody's like, oh, let's.
Amanda Wolfe (33:56):
Go grab a coffee.
Kendall Berg (33:57):
700.
I bought an espresso machine that went away.
Amanda Wolfe (34:02):
That's like eye opening.
Right?
You're sitting there and you're like, oh my gosh, you know, that's a quarter or half of my paycheck or whatever it ends up being.
That's what drives change.
Kendall Berg (34:12):
Yes.
And I was like, we're gonna reappropriate these funds month one and buy an espresso machine.
And then after that, I'm never stepping foot in Starbucks again because I'll be poor.
And there's some few exceptions, which is pretty much when I travel and I feel like money is no object for four days.
Amanda Wolfe (34:24):
Other than that, money is different.
Kendall Berg (34:26):
Yes.
But I know that you have all kinds of free resources.
You've got courses that people can go to if they want to take better control of their money.
So if they're interested in learning more about that or finding you, where should they be headed?
Amanda Wolfe (34:38):
Yeah.
So on Instagram, you can find me she willful Wall street.
And that's Wolf with an E.
Otherwise, if you check out my website, shewolfowallstreet.com Again, tons of free resources, budget trackers and templates, lots of different guides, investing guide, all the good stuff you could possibly want.
And then if you decide you want a paid opt.
I do have money with Amanda.
Courses that go over how to budget, pay off debt, plan for retirement, how to manage money with your partner all those good things.
(35:04):
But if you want somewhere to start, lots of freebies on the site that I've spent a ton of time building out and making, so go grab them.
Kendall Berg (35:11):
I absolutely love it.
Well, thank you so much, Amanda, for coming on the podcast.
For those of you who are tuning in, this was like a huge effort to get Amanda and I schedules to sync, and we made it work.
And I've been literally looking forward to this for months because I think we reached out in December for the first time of like, can you be on my podcast, please?
So I'm so excited that this worked out.
(35:32):
I love all of the advice you shared today.
So if you're listening to this, give us five stars.
Make sure you leave any questions you have for Amanda or myself below.
But otherwise, Amanda, thanks for coming on.
We'll have to have you back on the show to give us some more great information on financial literacy in the future.
Amanda Wolfe (35:45):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been awesome.
What would you say for women, for men, for people who are in a job that they hate, but they're maybe afraid to walk away because they have a lot of the same fears you and I have of like, well, I can't not have money.
I can't be without.
You know, how would you talk them through that?
What financial strategies would you recommend to help them kind of navigate that?
Amanda Wolfe (00:20):
The first company I started working at right after college, I stayed there for 12 years.
And I to this day say that it was my biggest financial mistake that I've ever made because I was so comfortable.
I moved around jobs.
I got, like, promoted here and there, moved, you know, verticals.
And so it was just enough to keep me interested enough.
And I'm, you know, getting these little incremental raises and I'm like, well, I'm getting paid more than I was before.
(00:43):
That's great.
I'm good at it.
I have so much flexibility.
You, like, gaslight yourself into thinking that this is just the best job ever, even though you know deep down in your core that you are ready to kind of spread your wings.
Kendall Berg (00:55):
Welcome back to this episode of See Secrets of the career Game.
So many people are trying to navigate a corporate world that is laden with secrets, cleverly hidden and unspoken rules to a game that most employees don't even know that they're playing.
On this podcast, we try to give you a peek behind the curtains and some tips and tricks to ultimately make you successful in your career and help you progress a little bit faster.
(01:19):
Hello.
Hello.
Welcome back to another fabulous episode.
I cannot tell you how excited I am about today's guest.
Today we have Amanda Wolf with us, and she is the founder of the she Wolf of Wall Street.
And as somebody whose husband has watched the Wolf of Wall street like 5,000 times, it was obviously match made in heaven to have you on the pod.
I'm really jazzed about it.
But she is a self taught financial educator.
(01:40):
She has built a community of over 300,000 people who she helps on a regular basis and went from having no money to being able to stop working in her 30s and retire if she wanted to.
So huge trajectory change.
Welcome, Amanda.
We're so excited to have you on the show.
Amanda Wolfe (01:55):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
I'm super excited to be here.
Kendall Berg (01:58):
So why don't you tell the audience a little bit about you, about the she wolf of Wall street and why financial literacy and knowledge is so important to you.
Amanda Wolfe (02:06):
Sure.
Yeah.
So the she wolf of Wall street started really as a little COVID side project from my bedroom, as you know, all those types of stories do.
But for me, money has always been very top of mind money.
Like everybody wants more money, right?
But for me, it's always been really top of mind.
Because I grew up super poor, grew up in poverty.
(02:28):
My parents were both addicted to hard drugs and other substances.
So growing up, I went without a lot of my, you know, basic necessities.
Moving around from house to house, stealing food from grocery stores and gas stations for my brother and me, months without showering.
Like we're talking like real poverty.
And so when I was little, I would always ask my mom, like why I couldn't have like new clothes for school or why we couldn't like go to McDonald's or you know, why Santa didn't come to our house and things like that.
(02:56):
And it was always because we didn't have money.
So for me, like my five year old, six year old, seven year old brain was like, okay, we have to find a way to get money because that seems to be the answer to all the things that we need in life.
And how do I get more money?
I have to be really good in school.
So as a child I focused on just being the best in school that I possibly could.
(03:17):
Was very competitive, which was tough because I moved around a lot.
I went to 12 schools between third and sixth grade alone.
It was, it was absolutely tough.
But for me, just like focusing on the education piece was really important.
Then I go through high school, I get my own apartment in high school, and I'm still focusing on college.
Go to the University of Illinois, graduate with a bachelor's degree.
(03:40):
First person in my family to ever go to college.
So it was like a really mind blow, glowing experience for me.
And it's still like one of the proudest moments of my whole life.
So it was really tough.
But education was always the goal.
Like, okay, I got the college degree, great.
I got my first big girl job.
Let's do this.
And then a year into this, like big girl job, I did my taxes and saw that I made $77,000.
(04:04):
And this is like 2009 money, okay?
So that's like a million dollars to a 22 year old who has grown up in poverty, did my taxes, found out I made $77,000 and was like, where the heck did all of my money go?
You know, I'm still, I still have these student loans, I still have like a little credit card debt.
I'm barely scraping by.
I was supposed to get a college degree, join the corporate world.
(04:26):
And then I was going to be living the life and having money for all of these things.
And then that's when I realized I don't actually know anything about money.
I'm over here just grinding day in and day out with my corporate job.
I got the side hustles, I'm doing all the things.
I still have nothing to show for it.
And then at age 22, is when I decided to start learning everything I could about money.
What is this one K my job is offering?
Like, what is an hsa?
(04:48):
Like, how do I invest?
How do I make sure I'm not going to lose all my money?
Literally was calling Fidelity to understand, calling Chase bank to understand all of this stuff.
And so over the years, since 22, I have taught myself everything there is to know around just, you know, basic financial literacy skills and then up leveling from there.
And when I was in, like my early days and even later 20s, I just assumed that everybody else knew this stuff and that their parents had taught it to them.
(05:15):
And.
And since I didn't exactly have exemplary role models there, that's maybe why I missed that boat.
Then I realized later 20s, I started helping a lot of my friends, and I learned that they didn't know this stuff either.
So Covid came along.
I started she Whip of Wall street just to kind of teach more people about financial literacy.
Cause it was a thing I'm super passionate about.
(05:36):
It was a time where money was top of mind for a lot of people.
So I said, you know what?
I'm going to come in here and just for funsies, start the Instagram, put myself out there and.
And then it has really kind of progressed from there.
So that's where I started it.
I was, I was like, you know, there's not a lot of stuff out there dedicated or focused on women.
I want hot pink and girly and feminine, but I want it to be super accessible and easy to understand when it comes to this stuff, because it can be really intimidating.
(06:03):
So that's kind of like my story.
That's my jam.
That's how I got to where I am today.
And then that's, you know, why I decided to focus on this topic specifically.
And I'll say my last name is actually Wolf, so the name kind of organically came together.
And I'm not the scary, like, Wolf of Wall street bros that you read about.
I want to be, like, inclusive and, like, easy to understand and, like, no gatekeeping.
(06:25):
That's kind of my mantra there.
Kendall Berg (06:27):
I love it.
And Your story is so, I think, natural for the progression of what your life was like.
Right.
And I'm someone who's very risk adverse.
Right.
We could have a whole separate conversation where we talk about our upbringings, but I was terrified of not having money.
This is like a huge fear of mine.
And similarly was not much financial literacy.
(06:50):
So this was like an adult learned thing.
I've worked in wealth management and banking for 15 years.
A lot of what I've learned has been self taught over that journey.
But I love how you're bringing it to people because I think, you know, were raised in a generation that didn't talk about money.
It was not good to talk about money.
And so as a result, there was no education on money either.
And then a lot of us get into college.
(07:12):
And I remember a friend of mine had a credit card.
She's like, credit cards are great.
You, like, don't even really have to pay them and like these things.
I'm like, that is not how credit cards work.
And I don't know who told you that, but that's not how that works.
You will definitely have to pay that at some point.
Amanda Wolfe (07:25):
A gift card that has unlimited funds that you.
Kendall Berg (07:27):
Yeah, exactly.
So I love this because I think it's definitely much needed.
When I think about my audience and the group who's listening to this, what would you say for women, for men, for people who are in a job that they hate, but they're maybe afraid to walk away because they have a lot of the same fears you and I have of like, well, I can't not have money.
I can't be without, you know, how would you talk them through that?
(07:50):
What financial strategies would you recommend to help them kind of navigate that?
Amanda Wolfe (07:55):
Yeah.
So I will say that I get it because we need money for every single thing in our lives, right?
Like the shoes we put on our feet to walk each day, like the mattresses we sleep on to go to the doctor for anything.
And so it can be really scary just thinking about disruption when it comes to that.
Especially if you don't have a, you know, strong financial foundation or a strong support system financially if all heck were to break loose.
(08:23):
So I will say that I can absolutely empathize.
My.
The first company I started working at right after college, I stayed there for 12 years.
And I to this day say that it was my biggest financial mistake that I've ever made because I was so comfortable.
I moved around jobs, I got like promoted here and there, removed, you know, verticals.
And so it was just enough to keep me interested enough.
(08:45):
And I'm, you know, getting these little incremental raises, and I'm like, well, I'm getting paid more than I was before.
That's great.
I'm good at it.
I have so much flexibility.
You, like, gaslight yourself into thinking that this is just the best job ever, even though you know deep down in your core that you are ready to kind of spread your wings.
So I will say that I can absolutely empathize.
I stay there for 12 years.
(09:06):
Biggest financial mistake when I went to leave that company.
Again, very scary.
Will I have the same flexibility?
Well, what if I get fired?
Will the other company take me back?
So going down like that rabbit hole, first of all, I will say the grass is a lot of times greener on the other side.
I ended up getting paid double what that previous company had paid me.
(09:27):
I was, like, sitting here thinking, oh, my gosh, if I'm getting paid double, you know, and I negotiated to a degree, but I feel like I probably didn't even negotiate well enough because I already felt like that was, you know, $5 million in my salary at the time.
Like, okay, like, I'm going to be the next Elon Musk over here.
But, you know, that is when I realized, like, I have got to take a step back.
(09:48):
Like, how did I get to this point?
And it was all down to, like, my comfort level.
So I think the thing that allowed me to actually finally leave was to, I like to say, like, let's go down all the different rabbit holes.
Okay, let's say I get to this new company and I absolutely hate it.
What could I do?
Could I go back to the previous company?
Well, yeah, I mean, I had, like, top rating review for all 12 years that I was there.
(10:12):
I built up a huge network of people.
Like, I know they're going to be sad to lose me.
I could probably easily go back.
All right, well, let's say they won't take me back then What?
Like, well, am I.
Am I not going to be able to pay my rent?
Will I not be able to buy groceries?
Like, what's going to happen?
Well, no, you know, I actually have this many months of savings, so I know that's okay.
Okay, well, what if I go through all of those months of savings and I still don't have a job and the other companies still won't take me back?
(10:35):
Okay, well, you know, I have, like, a brokerage account that I could dip into.
I could always work a side job and, like, drive for Lyft or something.
Like, it's not like you have to be without any income.
So I think if you almost like, catastrophize the situation and think, let's assume the worst possible thing happens here and then let's go down a rabbit hole and then you realize I sound like a nut job, all of these things are probably not going to happen.
(10:56):
Like, I know that I'm smart, I know that I'm capable.
I know that, like, any company would be super lucky to have me.
That is not going to happen.
I'm not going to have nobody pick me up after years.
I have this, you know, financial security blanket over here.
We're going to be all right.
But, yeah, I get that it's scary, but I say my biggest advice, catastrophize the situation.
Let yourself go down all the bad rabbit holes, lay it all out, and then realize, like, oh, this is probably not all going to happen and it is going to be okay.
Kendall Berg (11:23):
Amanda, it's such great advice because I feel like so often, especially on social media, we hear like, you're overthinking it or you're just being anxious or like, yolo, it'll be fun.
But I do exactly what you're describing, which is, okay, let's run down all of the worst case scenarios.
What do I need to do?
What is my timeline?
(11:44):
How much space can I give myself?
What does that look like?
And you're so right that once you think about all the things that could go horribly wrong, a lot of the time you're like, eh, it's really not that bad.
Or like, I've got a really long Runway before it gets really bad.
Amanda Wolfe (11:57):
Right?
Right.
My husband divorces me, then what?
Well, you know, I'll go get an apartment.
Like you just, I think, catastrophizing to like the worst possible.
And then you realize, you know, we're fine, we got this, gonna be over.
And I love that.
Kendall Berg (12:11):
So you talk about having this financial plan and financial safety net.
Right?
And you talked about having so many months savings, having a brokerage account you could dip into.
Somebody's listening to this and they are where you were 15 years ago.
They don't have financial literacy.
They don't know what's going on.
But they want to build that financial safety net and situation.
(12:32):
What do they need to do?
Like, what does that actually look like for somebody who maybe works a traditional job?
What do they need to be doing with their money so that they can catastrophize situations and give themselves a little bit Of Runway.
Amanda Wolfe (12:44):
Yeah.
So first I would say just build some basic financial literacy skills.
And I know that is like, oh, okay, Amanda, I'm just going to learn this overnight.
No, but I like to say that financial literacy is the ABCs of adulthood.
So I want you to.
And I will answer this question, but I want you to, like, think back for a second to, like, little kid, you.
(13:05):
You probably don't remember learning the ABCs.
Or if you have kids, think about teaching your kids the ABCs.
What if they sat down and was like, I don't have time to learn 26 letters.
Are you kidding me?
In order.
There's no way.
You wouldn't be able to read.
You wouldn't be able to write.
You probably would not have the job you have right now if you had not learned your ABCs.
So financial literacy, the ABCs of adulthood.
You spend so much of your life and time working for money.
(13:28):
Now it's time to spend just a few minutes learning about how that money works and how to make that money work for you.
So you do not need to be looking at a bunch of crazy stock charts and analyzing stocks.
No, no.
We're talking about just some basic stuff here.
Let's learn, you know, how much to save.
How do I actually save?
How do I make it easier on myself?
(13:49):
You know, just.
Just like you ha.
You probably have money coming out of your paycheck to go into your 401k, even if you don't know what that is.
That's okay.
We're going to start somewhere.
We do not have to become financial experts here.
Right?
Let's just talk about the minimum viable product here.
Like, what are the basics I need to know?
Okay, well, I'm going to.
I'm getting a 5% match at my company, but I don't have anything going in.
(14:10):
I'm just going to go put in 5%.
Pick what they suggest for me and my age.
That's a great place to start.
That's what I did at 22.
Then you can later go.
Go and change those things.
Let's start there.
Okay, well, now, you know, I need to have some savings.
How do It?
Well, just like we automated that 1k, let's automate those savings.
Especially if you're somebody out there who's a spender.
You're like, you know, Friday hits, and you're like, yeah, baby, we are going out.
(14:33):
We're getting cocktails.
No, no, let's go ahead and get rid of that money before you even see it.
Just like we would with the 401k, let's send that over to savings.
So there are some things you can put in place to make it easier on yourself.
But I would say, like, the basics.
Let's get an emergency fund.
Let's have, like, you know, can.
Can we say an oh, crap fund, if you will.
I want to call it an oh, shit fund if you can.
(14:55):
But otherwise an oh, crap fund if you want to have some things in place to help us in case something were to happen.
We spend so much time working for this money.
Let's make sure it's working for us, too.
You know, we like.
I like a matching workout set just as much as everybody else.
I like having my nails done, too.
But I will tell you that, like, the coziness that comes along with financial security beats out all of those things any day.
Kendall Berg (15:22):
I love it.
And it's.
It's one of those things where I would argue a lot of us know these things logically, right?
I should have savings check, right?
And I think that we know it.
And then we see that cute workout set or that our friends are going out for dinner.
I had a client once in New York who's like, I eat out six days a week with my friends in New York.
(15:45):
I'm like, oh, my God, how much must that cost?
Right?
Like, food alone.
And so I think, you know, you're hitting the nail on the head.
We have to start with that financial literacy.
We have to set up those safety nets.
So what are some of those things?
Like, how much should we be saving?
How much should we have in savings?
Should there be certain types of accounts we open?
Like, what would be your recommendations?
As somebody who has done the studies, has learned this financial literacy, what would you tell the average person to start looking into?
Amanda Wolfe (16:12):
So first, I would say the first thing you have to get right is your mind.
And I know that sounds counterintuitive, but just like, you know.
You know, you should eat the food that you have in your refrigerator before going out to eat, right?
Like, what makes you actually go cook that meal?
You know, you should.
You should actually go to the Pilates class that you paid for.
(16:32):
But what makes you actually get there?
Kendall Berg (16:34):
So.
Amanda Wolfe (16:34):
So I do think that you can know which savings account to go open and you can know which brokerage account to go open and what to invest in.
You can know all those things.
But if you don't have, like, your mindset right first, it doesn't matter if all of those things exist.
You have to become, like, so obsessed with your goals and get your mindset right first before I think that anybody will be successful in those other things.
(16:57):
So if you are, you know, if you are somebody who maybe didn't grow up with a strong financial foundation, you know, maybe your parents fought about money a lot or you grew up super poor or, you know, it's just always been this black box, this, like, mystery piece.
Let's go ahead and learn some basics, but also let's work on us.
Like, why do I want money?
Why do I want savings?
(17:17):
Those might sound like obvious questions, but it's not the same answer for everyone.
And then I think when somebody does a little soul searching on that's, that's when they can start becoming obsessed with their goals.
If it's like, I want to save money because I'm tired of working a corporate job and I would love to start my own graphic design business or something, or I want to save money because, you know, I want to take my kids to Disney.
(17:40):
And I have.
I never got to go to Disney as a kid.
And it's like their favorite thing ever.
And I really want to be able to do that, come up with these things, like, literally write them down and then become so obsessed with them that it makes you so excited that you're like, yes, I'm taking my family to Disney this year or I'm going to buy, you know, we're all going to go to Mexico.
I've always wanted to leave the country and go to I hate the cold and go to Mexico for Christmas or, you know, whatever your thing is.
(18:05):
And it will become so much easier to say no to, like, drinks on Friday after work when you're obsessed with those goals.
And then if you start voicing it, you will actually a lot of times find that other people want to talk about this stuff too.
Like, oh, you know what?
I'm not doing happy hour this summer because we're saving up for, you know, Mexico this Christmas.
(18:26):
And you'll find that people are like, oh, my gosh, wait, that's great.
You want it?
Should we get drinks at my house instead or something?
Or let's stay at the office.
You'll find that other people are really easily persuaded the other way when it comes to spending money.
So I will say mindset first.
Then if you want to do, like, the tactical things, which was the original question you asked me, I would say you want an emergency fund just in case, you know, something hits the fan here.
(18:52):
The amount of your emergency fund will be different for every single person because we all spend different amounts of money, so three to six months is usually suggested.
Three months of necessities, not nails and Uber Eats type stuff.
But how much do I need to keep the lights on and still eat from the grocery store?
What are my basic bare necessities here?
(19:13):
Three months, I would say is fine if you are somebody who could easily get a job of similar pay tomorrow.
A lot of people are not reliant on you.
You're kind of responsible for yourself.
Probably three months is fine.
You might want closer to six to nine months, though, if you're somebody who's maybe an executive level person where your jobs are fewer and further between.
(19:34):
And it's going to be a little more difficult for you to get, you know, pay of a similar level where you are now.
Or if you have four kids and you are the breadwinner of the family, you might want a little longer of a Runway because I hear kids are pretty expensive.
So I think it depends on your situation.
You're responsible for you, only smaller.
(19:54):
The more people you're responsible for, the harder it is to find a job a little bit bigger.
And that takes, like, adding up how much you're actually spending each month on the necessities.
And that can be a really scary and eye opening exercise if you've never done it before.
So a little larger, though, if you have people you're taking care of.
So I think that's the place I would start.
Kendall Berg (20:14):
Tactically, Amanda, it's such good advice that you're giving because I do think the mindset piece is huge, right?
It's the same with, I'm going to use health and fitness.
It's like a parallel example.
You're like, I want to get in shape, but we don't know why.
We don't have good goals and we don't understand.
You're like, oh, chocolate chip cookies, which are my weakness.
And by the way, if you're listening to this and you're like, don't hate on chocolate chip cookies.
(20:36):
I had two yesterday.
So there's zero judgment.
Amanda Wolfe (20:38):
Okay.
Kendall Berg (20:39):
But I think you're right that if your mindset's not there, it doesn't work as well.
Now I know myself, I'm a goal oriented person.
If I have a deadline and a goal, ooh, I can make amazing things happen.
If it's just in general, I want to better with money, it's probably never going to happen because it's not clear enough.
I don't have a deadline, I don't have a goal.
I Don't have an objective.
And so there's no like, incentive for me really to change any behavior.
(21:02):
So I think starting with the mindset piece really is so huge for any areas of our life that we're looking to change.
Right.
Because it's not just gonna happen tomorrow.
Because, you know, you should save six months salary.
It's not like you're gonna wake up tomorrow, check your bank account, be like, yeah, it's there.
Amanda Wolfe (21:18):
Yeah.
Oh, I should save money.
Never thought about that before.
Cool.
Yeah, no, totally.
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (21:24):
The mindset shift is great.
I think having that safety net of your salary.
What's been interesting in my line of work lately is there's so many more layoffs.
There were governmental layoffs this year.
Last year there was a lot of big tech layoffs.
So many clients coming to me saying, hey, I've been unemployed three months, six months, nine months, and I'm looking for that next job.
If those people did not have that Runway, you were in a bad spot very quickly.
(21:46):
Right.
And we talked about catastrophizing.
I don't know if that's a word.
Amanda Wolfe (21:50):
But I'm rolling with it earlier.
Kendall Berg (21:51):
It's totally a word.
If it's not, it's a word to yourself.
But if you think, okay, if I lost my job, what would happen?
And the answer is, I'm homeless in three weeks, we have a problem, right?
Like, that is scary.
So starting with that mindset, setting up that savings, these are all great.
What would you say for somebody who's listening to this and they're like, oh, shit, I'm behind and I don't have a Runway and I don't feel safe with my financial freedom.
(22:19):
What would you tell them to go do?
Because you've been there, you shared your story of an incredible transformation from poverty to being able to retire at 30.
What would you tell somebody who's like, oh, my God, I'm 35, I feel behind.
I'm panicking.
What's the advice?
Amanda Wolfe (22:37):
So I would say, first of all, I think that we all feel behind.
Like I always say, I would have started investing in kindergarten had I understood how compound interest works.
Like, I would have been taking the girl Scout money, putting it, you know, like in an investment account.
But we can't, like dwell on those things because we can't go back in time.
So instead of beating yourself up, right, let's go ahead and stop doing that.
(23:00):
It comes back to the mental thing.
It comes back to the mindset thing.
We're not going to beat ourselves up we're going to try to move forward here.
So I would say if you feel behind, the first thing that you can do is, well, I guess it depends.
Do you have any debt?
If you have any debt, let's go ahead and start looking that in the face.
And let's try to understand how we got into debt into the, in the first place.
(23:24):
Was it, you know, some mindless shopping and eating out a little bit too much and going on vacations you couldn't afford, or was it some medical bills that you put on a credit card that you shouldn't have?
Like, is it something that just happened or is it something that you kind of did to yourself?
And so we're not going to beat ourselves up, but we're going to look at the situation and understand how we got in that position in the first place and then we're going to work on slowly unraveling those habits.
(23:47):
Now, I am not saying don't ever go out to eat or don't ever order in, but I am saying we got to drastically cut out all of the extras until we can kind of get a handle on things because otherwise you're only going to continue to run on that treadmill backwards.
So that's the first thing.
If you, if you have debt, if you don't have debt, if you're just like, I don't have any debt, but I'm just spending every penny that comes in, well, then we need to do a little soul searching.
(24:14):
And I think it's what we talked about in the beginning.
So based on how much money you have are making today, is it that you're just spending too much or is it that it's just covering the bare necessities Right now?
Let's say you're spending too much.
Well, I think for time's sake purpose here, let's go ahead and investigate what we can not spend as much on.
But let's say that you're somebody who's like, my expenses are high, like I'm paying for daycare, the mortgage.
(24:37):
We have all these life things that I'm paying for and it's barely cutting it.
We don't have a lot of extra.
So we've not invested a lot.
But we're not in debt.
And that's kind of just where we are.
We're at status quo here.
So then I would say, okay, well, are there, I'm not going to say don't get pizza on Fridays because you not spending $50 once a week is not going to move the need.
(24:59):
So I would say, are there any other large things in your life that you could downgrade?
Like let's swallow our pride a little bit.
Do we need to have, you know, the latest Range Rover or whatever?
Like can we downgrade some of those large expenses in our life?
Could we get a roommate?
Could we, you know, depending what your situation is, like bring in some rent money that way, anything that's the largest expense that would move the needle, take that and start investing it.
(25:26):
Most people have something that they can downgrade.
Whether they are willing to swallow their pride or not is another situation.
But most people have something.
The other thing is there a side hustle or a small second job that you can pick up?
I am not saying go work a second job for the next 20 years, but to move the needle, we either have to spend less or make more.
(25:50):
And people don't like when I say that.
But that's just those are the two situations that we have here.
Those are the two options.
So if you can't spend less, then you need to find a way to make more that could be leaving your current job negotiating more somewhere else.
I also know that's not a flip of the switch thing that's going to happen tomorrow.
But could you do something on the side?
Whether you know, it's a job through like upwork, maybe graphic design or translating or you know, is there something you could do on the side, dog walking or pet sitting or something like that wouldn't necessarily disrupt your day to day corporate job?
(26:26):
Or have you been at your corporate job a little too long?
You're a little too comfortable?
Well, let's go ahead and just poke around and see what else is out there.
You poking around doesn't mean you have to leave your job today, but it does allow you to kind of start pulling the curtain back a little bit to see what else is out there.
So I know that's not always a fun answer for people, but either make more or spend less.
(26:48):
And we do that by either negotiating more, picking up a side hustle, or cutting some of our large expenses that we have today.
Kendall Berg (26:57):
And it's definitely reality what we're talking about, right?
I pride myself that my podcast and my channel are like the no BS version of what you need to do.
And I feel like you're very similar in that we're like, hey, the no BS version is make more, spend less, move on.
These are what you got to do.
And I'm glad that we touched on side hustles.
As well, because something that I'm seeing shift pretty dramatically in the corporate landscape.
(27:17):
Part of this is frankly inflationary driven lately, but part of it is just society at this point is like, well, I don't want to just do a corporate job.
I want to do something on the side.
I want to make a little extra cash.
I had an employee who told me, he's like, hey, I'm going to start driving for Lyft.
Is that a problem?
Like, I don't care if you drive, as long as you're not doing it during work hours.
You know, go for it.
Right.
(27:38):
I think that the world of the side hustle is picking up.
Right.
You said you started she wolf of Wall street, basically, as a side hustle in Covid of like, I'm gonna see what this does and if I can build a community and if it's helpful.
And career coach was something similar for me.
I had been coaching for years.
My husband had been begging me to talk about it on social media.
And I was like, who wants to listen to me talk on social media about work?
Amanda Wolfe (28:01):
Nobody.
Kendall Berg (28:02):
And then fast forward, you know, it's.
It's definitely a huge part of what I do on a daily basis.
So I think it's important to bring up the side hustle something.
I would caution people who are listening about side hustles, like, don't expect a.
A quick fix.
Like, there are jobs that could be a quick charge.
You want to drive for Lyft?
Do you want to take some accounts on, fiverr your upwork or whatever?
Yes.
(28:22):
But if you're like, I'm gonna post a video and become a social media influencer who makes a million dollars a year, like, that's not how that works.
Amanda Wolfe (28:30):
No, that is a very good.
That is a very good thing to call out because people do tend to think that, like, when I started, she wolf, I didn't necessarily think that I was gonna make money off of it.
I just did it because I genuinely liked it.
So I would also say if you're going to go that route, it needs to be something you are obsessed with because it is a ton of work, as you can probably attest to.
(28:52):
Like, I didn't make a.
Let's see, I made my first dollar.
Let's like, seven months later.
Like, is when I made.
Started making a little bit of money.
Now, not enough money to, like, go and, you know, quit my job or anything, but that was when I started seeing a baby return on my investment.
And imagine at that point, I put in, like, hundreds of hours already.
So yeah.
That is not a quick thing that needs to be on the side of whatever your side hustle is.
(29:16):
If you're gonna go.
If you're gonna go that route.
Kendall Berg (29:19):
Yeah, I totally agree.
And it's funny because people listening are probably like.
But now they have these giant platforms.
It's also really important to understand that, like, social media from a money making perspective is a really weird business.
Amanda Wolfe (29:30):
Yes.
Kendall Berg (29:30):
Where like, you don't really get paid to have followers or even really to get views.
Like, maybe you made like, I think I made $5 off a video once and I was like, ooh, it's a very popular video.
Amanda Wolfe (29:40):
Look at that, $5, $90 one time.
And it had like 7 million views.
So I don't exactly.
It's like one off.
It's not a lot.
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (29:49):
You're not making bank off the video itself.
You're making money off of building a business around what your social media is or brand deals or whatever.
And I laugh because I have a good friend who runs a social media business who makes about 700,000 a year.
She does huge brand deals every single month.
I do like a brand deal a year.
Right.
And so it's totally different.
(30:11):
So I just wanted to have that quick side for listening who's like, I'm just going to start an Instagram account like Amanda and Kendall and make a million dollars.
Like, I don't know about you, but I don't make a million dollars like it is.
Amanda Wolfe (30:22):
It's very hard to start making money.
And to your point, it's.
People think that you make money just because you have followers.
And that is like, not.
But it is kind of a black box.
So.
Kendall Berg (30:31):
Yeah.
Amanda Wolfe (30:31):
Well, we'll go ahead and tell you don't just get paid for having followers.
Kendall Berg (30:35):
Yeah.
So start.
One, if you're really passionate about something, if you love talking about your work or you love talking about money, do it.
Have a blast.
Amanda Wolfe (30:41):
Yes.
Kendall Berg (30:42):
Do not be expecting for that to be your, like, solo bank account in two weeks.
Anyways, we got off topic, but I think that's really important to say.
I get that question all the time.
People will book calls with me and they're like, how do you become famous on social media?
I'm like, well, one, I am not.
Amanda Wolfe (30:55):
And two, I don't know.
Kendall Berg (30:58):
Exactly.
So I love all of this.
We talked about a lot of different topics.
You know, the average person listening to this is working a job.
They're feeling stressed, they're financially strapped, because, let's be honest, 20, 25, it's tough out here.
Inflation has been its own beast.
So people who are listening, who are like, okay, I feel inspired.
(31:18):
Amanda has given me great topics of like, how I can get started.
What's one thing you want to tell them to do tomorrow?
Like, hey, you've listened to this.
You're ready to take control of your finances.
Go do this one thing.
Amanda Wolfe (31:29):
So the first thing I would say is to just start, like, do something.
I don't care if it's, open your bank account and look at it for the first time because you haven't looked at it in like weeks or months because that's really scary and freaks you out.
That used to be me.
I didn't even want to look at it.
So maybe you're there, okay.
Or maybe you're a little further along.
Maybe you are somebody who's not in debt.
(31:49):
You're just hoarding your savings.
You're not investing.
Okay, well, I want you to first of all figure out how much you need in savings.
Like, I want you to like, literally.
Okay, wait, no, you said just pick one thing.
Okay, so there's.
The one thing is if you're scared, if you've not done anything, just go look at your accounts.
Like start there, okay?
That's the somebody maybe who's a little in a darker place.
(32:12):
We'll say we're just going to start there.
Now if you're not, let's say, like, things are all right, but they could better, then what I do want you to do is I want you to sit down and look at how much you're spend, how much you've spent over the last three months on different things.
Like, I want you to literally add up your groceries, you're eating out, you're shopping, and I want you to just take a little peek into that because that can be the most eye opening activity.
(32:37):
And that can drive change.
I have seen that drive change more than anything else, which is, wow, I did not realize I am spending twelve hundred dollars a month at TJ Maxx or something.
Right?
Every month.
Or old maybe, or like something where it's just like, I only get a couple sweaters or I got candles.
I'm like, you're spending twelve hundred dollars a month on candles, my friend.
(33:00):
Go add it up and literally see where your money is going.
And it might make you a little sick at first, but that is what's going to drive change.
That's what's going to get your booty in Motion to be like, all right, I am done spending twelve hundred dollars a month on candles or whatever your thing ends up being.
I'm ready to put that money to work.
And then that's when we can go on to steps 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.
(33:20):
But I would say that's the first thing to do tactically is like, let me see what I'm spending on.
That way I will know how much money I could put towards any debt or how much I can invest or how much I can save for a vacation or, you know, what have you.
But I think knowing what you have to work with is going to be the absolute first thing to start with.
So that's what I would say.
Kendall Berg (33:40):
Great advice.
Take the time, sit there, think through what you're actually spending.
It'll be eye opening and probably make you a little bit depressed.
I remember when I learned I used to spend $700 a month at Starbucks.
I worked for a company based in New York, and there was a Starbucks in the lobby.
And so every time you had a break in calls, everybody's like, oh, let's.
Amanda Wolfe (33:56):
Go grab a coffee.
Kendall Berg (33:57):
700.
I bought an espresso machine that went away.
Amanda Wolfe (34:02):
That's like eye opening.
Right?
You're sitting there and you're like, oh my gosh, you know, that's a quarter or half of my paycheck or whatever it ends up being.
That's what drives change.
Kendall Berg (34:12):
Yes.
And I was like, we're gonna reappropriate these funds month one and buy an espresso machine.
And then after that, I'm never stepping foot in Starbucks again because I'll be poor.
And there's some few exceptions, which is pretty much when I travel and I feel like money is no object for four days.
Amanda Wolfe (34:24):
Other than that, money is different.
Kendall Berg (34:26):
Yes.
But I know that you have all kinds of free resources.
You've got courses that people can go to if they want to take better control of their money.
So if they're interested in learning more about that or finding you, where should they be headed?
Amanda Wolfe (34:38):
Yeah.
So on Instagram, you can find me she willful Wall street.
And that's Wolf with an E.
Otherwise, if you check out my website, shewolfowallstreet.com Again, tons of free resources, budget trackers and templates, lots of different guides, investing guide, all the good stuff you could possibly want.
And then if you decide you want a paid opt.
I do have money with Amanda.
Courses that go over how to budget, pay off debt, plan for retirement, how to manage money with your partner all those good things.
(35:04):
But if you want somewhere to start, lots of freebies on the site that I've spent a ton of time building out and making, so go grab them.
Kendall Berg (35:11):
I absolutely love it.
Well, thank you so much, Amanda, for coming on the podcast.
For those of you who are tuning in, this was like a huge effort to get Amanda and I schedules to sync, and we made it work.
And I've been literally looking forward to this for months because I think we reached out in December for the first time of like, can you be on my podcast, please?
So I'm so excited that this worked out.
(35:32):
I love all of the advice you shared today.
So if you're listening to this, give us five stars.
Make sure you leave any questions you have for Amanda or myself below.
But otherwise, Amanda, thanks for coming on.
We'll have to have you back on the show to give us some more great information on financial literacy in the future.
Amanda Wolfe (35:45):
Yeah.
Thank you so much for having me.
It's been awesome.
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