Berg interviews Milam Miller, the former AS Roma exec known as the real-life Ted Lasso, about the leadership superpower most people misunderstand: charisma.
Milam breaks down his modern framework for connection, communication, and rizz—the kind that helps you lead across cultures, industries, and personalities. Drawing from his new book, The Charisma Craft – A Modern Leadership Guide to Enhance Your “Rizz”, he shares the six leadership archetypes you’ll want to know, plus the acronym that will help you end workplace gossip like a pro.
Whether you’re a rising leader, a high performer who keeps getting passed over, or someone trying to stay relevant in an AI-powered workplace—this conversation will change the way you think about presence, persuasion, and power.
🎯 In this episode, we discuss:
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What is charisma in leadership—and how do you build it authentically?
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What does “rizz” actually look like in the workplace?
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Can AI teach you how to be charismatic—or just what to say?
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How do you stop gossip without making it awkward?
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What are the six archetypes in The Charisma Craft?
⭐️Get our FREE Accomplishments Tracker: https://fabulous-butterfly-83716.myflodesk.com/n8yzvrtw9v
That Career Coach
Want to know more about Kendal Berg, that career coach?
Follow her on Instagram: @thatcareercoach_
Check out her courses on the website: https://thatcareercoach.net/
Build out the tools you need to navigate the corporate game: — Self Driven Mastermind
During his 15-year career in Sports & Entertainment, Milam Miller negotiated more than $100MM in commercial revenue. What was once a private mantra – “Be Confident and Kind” – is now a public movement to positively transform the way we lead in the future of work.
Following his love for professional training and human potential, Milam launched a sales reskilling & upskilling practice called, Be Confident & Kind–a movement to build a human-powered future of work. His mission is to help leaders reduce internal team conflicts and increase external sales.
He is advancing this mission through the release of his first book, The Charisma Craft–A Modern Leadership Guide to Enhance Your “Rizz”
Get Milam’s book The Charisma Craft: https://www.amazon.com/Charisma-Craft-Modern-Leadership-Enhance/dp/B0FF4YRM2F/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0
Website: https://beconfidentandkind.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/milam-miller-bck/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/milam.miller/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Kendall Berg (00:00):
This is to me, very nebulous.
Like executive presence.
People talk about it, you need to have it.
And then they're like, great, what does that mean tactically?
And they're like, I don't know.
You just be more in a meeting.
Right.
So what is charisma?
Why is it so important?
Why was it so important for you in this situation?
Because I hear it all the time, like, this person's great, but they just don't have the it factor, that extra, that executive presence.
(00:25):
So what does that mean?
Milam Miller (00:26):
Yeah, so let me break all of this down because I love whenever they say it, can that not be more like bland and basic?
Like, what is it?
So let's get real specific.
Charisma is two way human connection.
This conversation you and I are having, Kindle, not one way attraction.
So what Riz is not, and I think a, perhaps a younger generation is being told is that it's looking fly, it's having fresh new Nikes or blending in.
(00:52):
Conforming charisma is not that it's being authentic enough to stand out, bold enough to stand out, and curious enough about yourself and others to actually engage and reach a lot of depth.
Kendall Berg (01:05):
Welcome back to this episode of Secrets of the Career Game.
So many people are trying to navigate a corporate world that is laden with secrets, cleverly hidden and unspoken rules to a game that most employees don't even know that they're playing.
On this podcast, we try to give you a peek behind the curtains and some tips and tricks to ultimately make you successful in your career and help you progress a little bit faster.
(01:29):
Welcome back, lovelies, for another fabulous episode today.
We have a wonderful guest, Milam, joining us.
He is a former senior leader in the sports space.
Joke the real life Ted Lasso on our show because he did move across the pond and coach European football or soccer, as our stateside listeners would say, and really had to focus on developing the ability to inspire and influence across commercial sales teams to reach their fullest potential while in a different country, learning new things.
(02:04):
So exciting.
So, Mylam, we're so jazzed to have you on the show today.
Milam Miller (02:07):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Kendall coached those sales leaders, that's for sure.
And coached cross culturally, cross functionally.
Full disclosure, y' all, I did not speak any Italian.
Like, the word y' all came out all the time, followed by perfetto.
So everything was perfect.
Unless it wasn't, which we had to say, timeout.
Let's make sure we're on the same page.
So tons of interpersonal development skills that Were cultivated, developed, flexed.
(02:32):
And while I think I may have had a firm foundation, it really stretched me to be the leader that I knew I was capable of being.
Kendall Berg (02:39):
I love that.
And there's so many barriers when we're speaking different languages, where, you know, clients will come to me, especially if they immigrated to the US and say, oh, I didn't know the language.
I don't use the right words.
Like, sometimes it's not about the word.
Sometimes it's about the delivery, the inspiration, the connection, the way we build those relationships.
And I think that even led to the release of your book, the Charisma Craft, which is a modern leadership guide to enhance your Riz factor, which the young kids would say.
(03:07):
Actually, I saw an interview this morning.
Charlize Theron said that Riz is out.
So apparently, Riz is not.
Not the thing.
Milam Miller (03:13):
News to me.
Yeah.
Heard it here first.
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (03:17):
So I love this.
So why don't you tell people a little bit about your background?
What ended up making you jump to Europe to work on an international football team?
And then what did that look like for that stretch and that challenge to become the leader that you wanted to be?
Milam Miller (03:31):
Absolutely.
Thanks for asking.
So for any listeners out there that have had a big childhood dream, this episode's for you.
When I was a young kid, I knew I grew up knowing one type of religion.
And while my mom would hate me saying this, it was football.
We went to church every Sunday in Texas, but right after church, we'd race home, you know, try to beat the.
At the Methodist church, try to beat the Baptist church, the people out of the parking lot to watch the Dallas Cowboys.
(03:55):
And I just had such an affinity for live sport and entertainment and the uncertainty and the action that really pulls us in.
Right.
So it didn't really matter what sport it could have been.
American football, basketball, I love March Madness, NBA, and even baseball.
Coincidentally, I was a New York Yankees fan because that was the dynasty of the 90s that I grew up idolizing.
(04:17):
And so I knew somewhere deep down, I want to work in the sports industry, but I don't know necessarily where.
And I know that can be very cumbersome for a lot of people earlier in their career, they want to enter a sector, a space, fashion, you name it, music.
But, like, how do I actually break in?
And so for me, my journey did take me to New York, and I thought, full well, Kendall, like, I'm going to go work for the New York Yankees.
(04:39):
Like, if there is a will, there is a way.
And I had an example, right, that we' we have mentors.
Tell us, find somebody who has the job you want and work back the steps to get there.
And I thought, okay, I'm going to be the general manager of the New York Yankees.
I'm going to be the next Brian Cashman.
Kendall, this guy's had the job for the last 27 years.
He's got good job security.
Kendall Berg (04:57):
So not going anywhere.
Not going anywhere.
Milam Miller (04:59):
Unfortunately, Brian and I did not connect.
He did not take me under his wing like I had hoped.
But the best part of my story is being open, being curious, being willing to network, get uncomfortable in social rooms, that sometimes I felt like I didn't belong, or I thought maybe I was too friendly as the Texan, like, not tough enough, not rough enough.
I didn't have that New York bravado.
(05:20):
But through a series of events, I got connected to a sports team owner.
And he had investments in a number of teams.
But his crown jewel, if you will, was this European football club called AS Roma.
When he bought into the ownership group, he was not the majority owner.
And this is kind of a, you know, peek behind the curtain.
This typically happens, but due to a series of events, he bought out some of his partners, became the majority owner, and he had a very clear vision for the club.
(05:44):
I want to deliver a modern day Coliseum to Rome.
So in other words, I want to build a new stadium.
And when you go to Rome, you're going to go to the old stadium and then you're going to come to our new one to see soccer, art shows, film festivals, you name it, right?
It was going to be programmed, mixed use, 365 days per year.
And so there's a lot of twists and turns that happened on that journey.
(06:05):
I want to tell you more, but maybe it's good.
I take a pause and just, bottom line, the fact that I never saw working in soccer for myself, but it happened.
And as a result, I had to be really nimble, I had to be agile and figure out, okay, I don't know soccer, but I know people I don't know the league, I don't even know the relegation, delegation model, all these things you can learn.
(06:30):
But I was like, but I do understand business and I do understand how to get deals done.
And that served me.
And what I realized in doing those deals was that charisma was the skill that I utilize the most.
Kendall Berg (06:41):
And this is why you get the nickname the Real Life Ted Lasso.
Because if you watch Ted Lasso, he knows nothing about Soccer, though he's the coach of the team.
What he understands is people.
He understands how to motivate and how to accelerate and how to challenge and how to get a team aligned to a common goal.
And it seems like you really did the same thing as you came in on this big Coliseum project and on this opportunity to work with the.
(07:05):
With these salespeople.
So you talked about charisma.
I'd like to think I have it.
So what is it?
Right.
Like, this is to me, very nebulous, like, executive presence.
People talk about it, you need to have it.
And then they're like, great.
What does that mean tactically?
And they're like, I don't know.
You just be more in a meeting.
Right.
So what is charisma?
Why is it so important?
(07:26):
Why was it so important for you in this situation?
Because I hear it all the time, like, this person's great, but they just don't have the.
The it factor, that extra, that executive presence.
So what does that mean?
Milam Miller (07:38):
Yeah, so let me break all of this down because I love whenever they say it.
Can can that not be more like, bland and basic?
Like, what is it?
So let's get real specific.
Charisma is two way human connection.
This conversation you and I are having, Kindle, not one way attraction.
So what Riz is not, and I think a, perhaps a younger generation is being told is that it's looking fly, it's having fresh new Nikes, or blending and conforming.
(08:05):
Charisma is not that it's being authentic enough to stand out, bold enough to stand out, and curious enough about yourself and others to actually engage and reach a lot of depth.
Because we're attracted to people that are authentically themselves.
We like to celebrate boldness when we see it.
It kind of gives us that, ooh, I want to step into my power in that way.
But it's the individuals that don't lose sight of that, see that curiosity.
(08:28):
Because we're always changing, we're always evolving.
But they curious about others.
It leaves this feeling of they made me feel like the most important person in the room.
They might look fly still.
Like, it's not that you don't have to look good.
We want to look good and feel good, but it's so that we can do good towards others.
And so I, in my own journey, had to realize, I thought charisma was very ambassadorial, the politician with good hair and like a good speaker.
(08:53):
And I realized, no, it's that person that made me feel seen, heard, and remembered.
Kendall Berg (08:58):
What you Just touched on, I think is a big misconception.
Especially, you know, so many of our listeners are going to be in the career landscape when people think, oh, I need to have more executive presence, I need to have more charisma, I need to show up a stronger personality.
We think us focused.
I need to be louder, I need to talk more, I need to have more opinions.
(09:18):
But studies have shown psychologically that the person who talks the most in an interaction thinks that the conversation went the best.
And so if you are trying to build connection with somebody else, get them to talk, get them to share their perspective, get them to feel that you're authentically engaging with them and you're present with them and they're going to think that conversation went really well.
(09:39):
They're going to think you've got Riz.
And this can be such a misconception where we do see the politician on TV or we see the, you know, executive in the boardroom and they do talk a lot, they hold a lot of space.
But it's not just that.
Right.
That might be your perspective in one nuanced situation or in one meeting.
But most of my executives never talk on calls unless they're going to ask a question or two.
(10:02):
Right.
They're just there to make a decision.
They're there to poke and prod and push people forward.
And it's great that you're calling that out, that it has to be that two way.
Right.
When we're to us focused, we're not going to build connection, we're not going to build those relationships and that's what we're going to need long term.
So why does this get a bad rep?
Right?
So we talked about the misconception of like, oh, in order to have charisma, I have to be the loudest, the boldest, the most unique, best shiny tennis.
(10:30):
Like we talked about that piece.
What are some other reasons why it gets a misconception?
Is like having Riz is a bad thing.
Especially in the context of like the workplace and relationship building.
Milam Miller (10:41):
Sure.
So let's draw distinctions.
Charisma is the ability to inspire and influence to move people forward.
So using your example, Kendyl, it's that CEO that's joining the call not to dominate it and be like, check out what we did.
Like I did this, I instated this policy.
It's so great because xyz, it's that executive that he, she, them are asking open ended questions.
(11:01):
Kendall, what's working for you and your team?
Kendall, what's not?
Why do you think that is getting really curious about your leadership style to empower you to go and lead your team.
So when we talk about influencing, charisma is a skill that helps you increase your influence.
It also helps you grow your goodwill because they're going to remember how you made them feel.
Charisma is not manipulating.
(11:22):
Manipulation is saying one thing to get you to like, think or believe another, or it's coercing you.
If you don't do this by then, you're not getting the promotion.
Or I will remember if you didn't do it my way.
Because we had this discussion and I'm date stamping.
We're, we're building a case that's not charisma.
Right.
That's a very authoritarian model.
(11:43):
So I think what happens is when we think of charisma, we think it's a pinnacle we reach.
Like once I have the corner office and I've become CEO, then I'm charismatic.
What I'm trying to argue is that the craft is actually something that you need to develop early in your career to enhance your risk factor.
Not it.
What is it?
It's your two way human connection.
(12:04):
That's really what it is.
Because in doing so, you're going to get noticed.
You're going to have people who want to champion you and sponsor you and pull you up.
And your job isn't to carbon copy what they do, not to emulate them.
It's to pull best practice, but make it your own.
And that is how you develop your craft.
Kendall Berg (12:20):
It's so true.
And it's funny when I think back on my own career.
You know, I've shared on this podcast before, the reason I became a career coach is because I sucked at exactly what you're describing.
Right.
I was terrible at.
Milam Miller (12:33):
Love the authenticity.
Yeah, right.
Kendall Berg (12:35):
I was terrible at the human connection.
I was terrible at being curious about other people because I was too focused on me, my priorities, what I had to do, getting my work done, clearing off my plate so that I could log off and go home.
And that caused a lot of tension early on in my career where people, even executives, would tell me, hey, I love having you on my team.
You produce way more than most of my team members.
(12:56):
Nobody likes working with you, and you need to figure out that piece.
And I've talked about this before, I've done other episodes on it.
But what I forced into being that you're describing so eloquently is I had to learn to care about other people and what was important to them and what made them Tick and why were they doing the things they were doing and build that two way understanding or I would have gotten stuck.
(13:22):
And then what's funny is as my tran.
As my career progressed, I got the title as the translator.
Like, oh, she can talk to anybody and get what they're saying and give them the message and make sure that everybody hears the same thing.
And the great irony is that's because it's what I was worse at and that's what I didn't do well and that's what I wasn't capable at.
So I believe Riz can be taught.
(13:43):
I believe Riz can be learned.
So how does somebody do that?
They're listening to this and they're like, okay, so I need to work on my Riz, I need to work on my craft.
How do they start to build this skill?
Because I 1000% agree with you're going to get stuck at some point if you don't learn how.
Milam Miller (13:59):
Sure.
Before I answer that, I feel like I'd be remiss not to highlight.
You are a case study, Kendall to all of your listeners that it is possible.
Right.
And to embody this archetype of the translator.
I really want to like hone in on that is so brilliant because maybe early on you weren't, but you developed the skill to then translate what was being said and received neuro linguistic programming differently from sender and receiver, but also what's not being said, what's being left unsaid.
(14:27):
And so much in the workplace now, especially in digital environments, the colleague who's sitting there quietly and they're actually like burning inside.
Like they're enraged and they want to say something, but they're not.
And it's the leader that's caring and compassionate and either says in the moment, hey, if you feel safe to share, I'd love to hear what you're thinking or they pull them aside afterwards and said what was going on.
I noticed something, I sensed something.
(14:48):
How can I best support you?
The power of healthy charisma.
That's what we need in the workplace.
Because then we feel more bonded, we feel more psychologically safe.
And again, we're going to build more high performing teams that yield better external results.
So so much of my lens is thinking about the end user, in other words, the client, the customer.
So I will answer your question.
(15:09):
How do we develop this?
I think we need to take that customer centric approach.
Every day when I show up to work, what am I doing to advance the business, the company and how can I show up as the best version of myself to do it?
So the first step is mindset.
You've got to believe that it is possible to develop this skill and not have any sort of limiting belief or construct on you that you just don't have it.
(15:32):
So I say, number one, it's not an inborn personality trait.
It's a skill you can develop.
Let's shift your mindset.
Number two, you have to decide what you're embodying.
And in your case, Kendyl, you said the translator.
In my book, I have six different types of leadership archetypes.
Six different types of.
Of archetypes.
There you go.
A lot of types.
And I'll give you just some examples.
We have the maverick, and I use.
(15:53):
I use sports examples.
So in my case, it's Megan Rapinoe, because she was a maverick in women's soccer.
She tore both of her ACLs early on in her career.
She was an advocate for championing equal playing conditions, not just equal pay.
We'll get there.
But women were playing on turf fields, men were playing on grass.
And there was a disproportionate number of ACL tears for the women playing on turf than men playing on grass.
(16:15):
And these studies, she was like, yo, the math ain't math.
And like, why aren't we playing on real grass?
And then that was, you know, a win.
She stacked more WINS.
Now the U.S.
women's National Team, rightfully so, They've been phenomenally successful, Is paid equal just as much as the male counterparts, who, for the record, just numbers don't lie, have not been as successful.
So I say that because that's a type of archetype that you can embody if you want to be, if you want to stand for something and get noticed, but say that's not your style and you're a little bit, like, softer.
(16:47):
Speaking up doesn't come as naturally.
You can do it in a different way.
And I call this the seeker.
And I'll.
I'll use another female example.
I do have male and female in the book.
Allison Felix.
She is the most decorated track and field athlete, but she didn't set out to win more Olympic golds than anyone else.
She was just seeking meaning out of her work.
So she's run so many different types of races.
(17:07):
The a hundred meter, the 200 meter.
And she realized along the way, the shoes I'm wearing were built off a male's prototype.
And why are women running in foot molds that weren't made from a woman's foot.
So she's always seeking a better way.
And if you are more soft spoken but you see solutions, you identify ways to better connect with the customer or ways to serve them.
(17:29):
When you speak up, you carry more weight, you carry more gravitas.
So it's really embodying these skills that you have to figure out what works for you and your personality type.
That's the second thing.
And then finally third, it's deploying tools for connection.
I have so many in the book, I wish I could go into them, but I'll leave one for listeners say, you're early on in your career and it's or silly.
(17:50):
We like to yap.
Like were saying, let's chit chat.
But I always say, don't spill the tea.
In other words, if you really want to ascend as a leader and somebody that's a magnetic leader and people want to are attracted to and want to follow, then don't talk about other people.
Because then when you talk about them, they're going to say if you talk about other people with them, they're going to wonder, are you talking about me when I'm not in the room?
So I use that acronym table break it down.
(18:13):
Very simply, if somebody comes to you a direct report and they want to gossip about someone, you can subtly just change the narrative.
You can say, t, tell me about your tasks you're working on like, or how did this interpersonal conflict come up?
And then kind of delve into, well, what were the expectations that you had the other person because you might be talking a little bit of trash on them.
And then finally say, well, let's figure out an action plan together.
(18:35):
Tell me about the tasks.
Let's explain the expectations on both part and then let's advance an action plan together.
And that is a way to show up as the leader.
You want to be a leader with healthy charisma.
Kendall Berg (18:46):
I've done a whole episode on why not to gossip, so I love that you're bringing this up.
In fact, when I had Farah Shargi on my podcast, we joked about starting an entire podcast called Girl shut your mouth.
Like stuff people say at work that you just should not say at work because I do think that undermines your credibility faster than anything else.
If you're sitting there talking badly about somebody, especially in your team.
(19:09):
I hear this all the time.
Clients will come to me and say, oh well, my boss was complaining about this other girl in my organization and asked me to help.
I'm like, oh no, that should never happen.
Right.
That's not the way to handle those situations.
And so it's important to me that's part of your message because I think charisma is just as easily lost.
If you're too focused on interpersonal conflict in a negative way as opposed to your point, expectations and actions to overcome it.
(19:37):
That is actually going to better for you long term.
Whether you're listening to this and you're in a leadership position or you want to be or you just want to be more successful at work.
Like shut that down.
That's not good.
No point am I going to my boss saying, Milam made weird eye contact with me yesterday and now I hate him.
Like, don't.
That's not important.
And I'll.
I'll caveat this quickly for listeners because I talk about this on other episodes.
(19:59):
Episodes.
It is important to cya cover your assets.
Yes, it is important to cover your assets.
When you're working with someone who you feel may take negative action towards you.
You want your boss to have a heads up before that happens.
Right.
You don't want the first time they hear about an issue to be from somebody else.
But the way you do that is by taking personal accountability.
(20:21):
Hey, I'm working with this individual.
It seems like maybe our expectations weren't fully communicated.
There was an issue where I missed the mark on this and in reality, in return, this person did this.
I think I have it handled.
I spent some one one time with them.
I've resolved it.
But want you to be aware that is very different than Mila made where eye contact with me after a meeting.
(20:42):
And now I think he hates me.
So I hate him on principle.
Right.
We need to take some accountability and in our sense of self.
And again, this ties back to where you started the episode of it's that two way connection.
If I'm having friction with somebody at work, it's not just them I want it to be.
That'd make my life way easier to be like, that person sucks and I'm perfect.
Right.
But that's not the reality.
(21:03):
Right.
I saw a meme this weekend and it was somebody driving and it was like, if you're driving faster than me in the fast lane, you're driving too fast.
And if you're driving slower than me in the fast lane, you're driving too slow.
And I as always am perfect.
And that's how we feel about work is we're like, if you are copying attitude with me at work, you're the problem.
(21:23):
If I'M copying attitude with you at work.
I'm perfect and you did something to deserve it.
And like that's not really the way that two way interaction works.
So I love all of the things you're saying.
These are so many good nuggets for people who are listening to take away.
So I have to ask the question that's coming up on every episode right now.
AI the boogeyman.
Milam Miller (21:40):
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (21:41):
Becoming more and more present in the workplace.
I'm seeing more and more positives and negatives as a result.
How is leadership going to be affected by AI?
How is this charisma going to be devalued or more valued?
Like what are some of the impacts of this advancing technology on some of these skills that we're talking about?
Milam Miller (22:03):
Totally great question.
And I do want to come back to the T tactic because I, you, I love how you played that back to me.
That was so brilliant.
Right.
Maybe we'll put a pin on that.
We'll put it in the parking lot.
But for AI specifically, Kendall, I would love for listeners to challenge me or challenge us.
I think AI can tell you how to become more charismatic in a traditional sense, but what it can't do is implement it for you.
(22:25):
It can't test, trial and error it for you.
You know, test it out.
I always say that enhancing your risk factor, like you said, whether you're an established leader, maybe struggling to connect with a multi generational workforce, or you desire to become a leader, it is.
There's so much experimentation involved.
We are all uniquely one of one.
(22:46):
Kindleberg is not the same as Milo Miller.
We might have similarities, of course we have differences, but every single person you work with is distinctly and uniquely different.
So these feedback loops of communication and again, what's said and left unsaid, it's important that we're working to grow that goodwill.
And the individuals who learn how to deploy charisma, those are the ones that, yeah, they might get the script from AI, but they're the ones who are actually building the skill.
(23:12):
So I talk to all my AI friends, my chat GPT, my Claude, my, you know, and they'll tell me different things.
But at the end of the day, I think with charisma is a very powerful skill and with that power comes great responsibility.
So it's on me to use it with great care and great intention.
So I've got to practice it, I've got to refine it and I've got to really be able to look at myself in the mirror and be like, was that in the spirit of connection, not in the spirit of, like, we talked about coercion or manipulation.
Kendall Berg (23:37):
The whole time I'm thinking in my head tone, because Mylam, what you're saying is AI can tell you what to say.
It can't tell you how to say it right.
It can't tell you how to connect.
It can't tell you how to build those relationships.
And I've talked about this with my team.
I think Riz, for lack of a better term, is going to be more important in the full AI deployment age than it was before, because that's our main differentiating factor.
(24:01):
As AI takes over, more technical skills, more writing skills, more thought skills, the big differentiator in performance is going to be, how did you deliver it?
Right?
And I've had clients come to me and say, kendall, this is what I said verbatim in a meeting.
And I'm like, that sounds great.
How'd you say it?
Like, well, what do you mean?
(24:21):
And I was like, I want you to say it to me exactly how you said it in the meeting.
And they'll deadpan recite it.
And I'm like, yeah, no.
So that reeks of inauthenticity, overpreparedness.
You don't actually care about the outcome.
You're not seeking approval from the other person.
It feels manipulative.
Like, that's not what we're trying to achieve.
What we're trying to do is build that authenticity into what you're communicating.
(24:43):
So I 1000% agree with you.
And even when we go back to you talking about being in Italy and, you know, not necessarily speaking Italian and your y' all comes out, it's tone, you may be speaking something that is completely gibberish to that person, but if you seem real and authentic and absolutely engaged, there's something still charismatic about that, as opposed to inauthentic, fake, manipulative, even if it's in the right language.
(25:07):
So I definitely love how you're pulling those together.
Milam Miller (25:10):
Totally.
I love this framework of not what you say.
You can have an AI prompter tell you what, but how.
And what's coming up for me too is again, having been in sales, I think about all these inbounds I now receive, and it's like, hey, Kendyl, like, spotted this.
Here's how I think I can be of value to you.
And then I get another DM or message like three hours later.
It's like, hey, have you read this yet?
Hey.
Circling back.
(25:30):
Hey.
Following up.
Hey.
And then at the End.
It's always like, no hard feelings, just tell me no.
Or they ask for permission, like, can I send you a video?
Can I tell you more?
And I'm like, we need to eradicate follow up, circle circling back.
Because at the end of the day, it feels it's putting pressure on the other person.
And it's not like, hey, Kendall, let's have a conversation.
Kendall, I know you're busy.
(25:51):
Do you have time this Friday at 11am there's no like actual clear call to action.
And AI misses that nuance.
Sometimes it's just like, oh, I'm going to appear friendly.
Friendliness or affability doesn't automatically mean you're charismatic.
We might have been taught that, but it truly does go so much deeper.
So whenever we talk about this construct that can feel ineffable or mystical and like some sort of superpower, that's why you have to try it on and make the craft your own.
(26:18):
It's how you say it.
And the only way we're going to learn how to get better or how to talk to that individual is through that feedback loop and that honest, open communication.
Kendall Berg (26:28):
So if you work at LinkedIn and you're listening to this episode, don't come for me.
But if I get one more AI written message in my LinkedIn inbox talking about how they can maximize the SEO on my YouTube, I'm gonna lose my mind.
Okay?
Because you're right, there's no authentic connection there.
Right?
And this is somewhere where I think, you know, speaking to the coaches population here, coaches go really awry.
(26:51):
We're sending these super dry, super AI generated, like, hey, I saw you liked my post.
Would you be interested in career coaching?
Like, it's gross.
And I feel that authenticity attracts people so much more.
And I was actually having a conversation with a coach yesterday who was asking about my business model, who you actually introduced me to.
And I shared with her.
I was like, I don't do any outreach.
(27:13):
She's like, why not?
I was like, because the right people are going to be attracted to the authenticity in my content and they're going to come to me and I don't feel like I show up.
The best version of myself in outreach.
I become like this weird, watered down sales pitch version of myself that I don't like.
Right?
And that's not to say outreach doesn't have its place in business because obviously it works for a lot of people, but for me, it's not authentic to my craft.
(27:39):
Right.
To me, it devalues the perspective that I bring in my content if then I'm going to like.
So I saw you like my podcast episode.
I have one more spot left this month if you'd like to claim it.
Like, that's just not who I am.
And so I love that.
We've talked through so many different aspects of this, of building your charisma, your genuine interest in other people, keeping that curiosity, making sure we're addressing gossip with tea as opposed to spilling it ourselves.
(28:09):
And then this full circle of like, how to implement, like use AI as a tool.
You know, there's coaching tools out there now that I always joke I'm like, I'm going to be replacing by AI at some point.
But AI can't teach you how to say it.
They can teach you what to say, but not how to implement.
And so many great aspects today.
If people are listening and they love this episode, which I'm sure that they did, what do you want to tell them?
(28:29):
Like, hey, Milam's one piece of advice tomorrow, if you want to improve your charisma, if you want to get better, go do this thing.
What's that?
One big takeaway for them.
Milam Miller (28:39):
Absolutely.
One big takeaway.
Go have more IRL in real life conversations, full stop.
Put yourself out there, get uncomfortable, get comfortable being uncomfortable, if that's possible for you.
It's, it's.
I know it sounds cliche, but it's true.
I think the top skill in the future of work is going to be active listening.
(28:59):
And I say that as somebody who uses an AI recording tool on all of my client calls and takes far better notes than I ever could have.
But I've got to be able to dissect that, deduce that, and remember in my own brain that most important thing my client, my customer said, the person it is whom I'm leading or serving.
So that whenever I do have that IRL conversation, I can double click on it.
(29:21):
To use corporate lingo, I can go deeper with the person.
I can say, I know this matters to you, so I don't think we should discredit active listening as a skill.
It's going to make you more charismatic, but also conversations and even casual conversations.
We've pooed on small talk for so long, but there actually is mounting research that says even just talking to our barista, I was talking to the guy at the car wash the other day, right?
(29:45):
And had the most connected human conversation with him that could have been transactional.
Like, you're here for a car Wash like, but it's, that is what makes us feel more human and more alive.
And so don't discredit casual conversations because that's gonna help you develop your or enhance your risk factor.
It's practice and we need reps in life.
So go out there and have more IRL conversations.
Kendall Berg (30:07):
Such a good take and quick anecdote on that topic.
I had a client, this is probably three years ago, came in for a potential sales call, was interested in working on coaching, was making a pivot in their career.
I think we did one session or two sessions back in the day you used to be able to book a la carte with me.
So we did, I think one or two sessions, chatted about some things.
So fast forward three years, I go in for a conversation with this company about a brand deal and I'm like, you look so familiar.
(30:33):
And she's like, yeah, we actually talked three years ago.
And I'm like, you worked at this company and you were looking for this change.
Did you actually end up getting your promotion into this role?
She's like, I cannot believe that you remember that.
And I was like, but it was the most important thing that she said in a one hour call that it stuck in my brain because you are paying attention.
You are trying to build authentic connection and so absolutely true.
(30:55):
There's a million ways where this can come to manifest and how things can work out long term.
You know, they say it's a small world with what is it, seven degrees of separation.
And it really is so fabulous.
Takeaway, Mylam.
If you guys are listening to this episode and you loved it as much as I did, go ahead, leave us five stars.
If you have any questions for Mylamore myself, leave them below.
Otherwise we will have to have you back on.
(31:15):
This was amazing.
But if people want to find out more about you want to get your book, where do they go?
Milam Miller (31:20):
Absolutely.
You can find out more about me and my practice.
Be confident and kind on the world wide web we are be confidentandkind.com and my book is available now on Amazon.
The Charisma Craft.
I'm so excited to get this body of work in the world and I know that your career tips, all 36 of them, Kindle.
There's a lot of synergy with what I have in here.
Kendall Berg (31:40):
That's awesome.
Well, thanks so much Mylon for calling on the episode.
We will put all those links in the show notes if you guys want to check them out.
Otherwise we'll have to have you back.
But thanks for taking the time today.
Milam Miller (31:48):
Thanks so much for having me.
This is to me, very nebulous.
Like executive presence.
People talk about it, you need to have it.
And then they're like, great, what does that mean tactically?
And they're like, I don't know.
You just be more in a meeting.
Right.
So what is charisma?
Why is it so important?
Why was it so important for you in this situation?
Because I hear it all the time, like, this person's great, but they just don't have the it factor, that extra, that executive presence.
(00:25):
So what does that mean?
Milam Miller (00:26):
Yeah, so let me break all of this down because I love whenever they say it, can that not be more like bland and basic?
Like, what is it?
So let's get real specific.
Charisma is two way human connection.
This conversation you and I are having, Kindle, not one way attraction.
So what Riz is not, and I think a, perhaps a younger generation is being told is that it's looking fly, it's having fresh new Nikes or blending in.
(00:52):
Conforming charisma is not that it's being authentic enough to stand out, bold enough to stand out, and curious enough about yourself and others to actually engage and reach a lot of depth.
Kendall Berg (01:05):
Welcome back to this episode of Secrets of the Career Game.
So many people are trying to navigate a corporate world that is laden with secrets, cleverly hidden and unspoken rules to a game that most employees don't even know that they're playing.
On this podcast, we try to give you a peek behind the curtains and some tips and tricks to ultimately make you successful in your career and help you progress a little bit faster.
(01:29):
Welcome back, lovelies, for another fabulous episode today.
We have a wonderful guest, Milam, joining us.
He is a former senior leader in the sports space.
Joke the real life Ted Lasso on our show because he did move across the pond and coach European football or soccer, as our stateside listeners would say, and really had to focus on developing the ability to inspire and influence across commercial sales teams to reach their fullest potential while in a different country, learning new things.
(02:04):
So exciting.
So, Mylam, we're so jazzed to have you on the show today.
Milam Miller (02:07):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Kendall coached those sales leaders, that's for sure.
And coached cross culturally, cross functionally.
Full disclosure, y' all, I did not speak any Italian.
Like, the word y' all came out all the time, followed by perfetto.
So everything was perfect.
Unless it wasn't, which we had to say, timeout.
Let's make sure we're on the same page.
So tons of interpersonal development skills that Were cultivated, developed, flexed.
(02:32):
And while I think I may have had a firm foundation, it really stretched me to be the leader that I knew I was capable of being.
Kendall Berg (02:39):
I love that.
And there's so many barriers when we're speaking different languages, where, you know, clients will come to me, especially if they immigrated to the US and say, oh, I didn't know the language.
I don't use the right words.
Like, sometimes it's not about the word.
Sometimes it's about the delivery, the inspiration, the connection, the way we build those relationships.
And I think that even led to the release of your book, the Charisma Craft, which is a modern leadership guide to enhance your Riz factor, which the young kids would say.
(03:07):
Actually, I saw an interview this morning.
Charlize Theron said that Riz is out.
So apparently, Riz is not.
Not the thing.
Milam Miller (03:13):
News to me.
Yeah.
Heard it here first.
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (03:17):
So I love this.
So why don't you tell people a little bit about your background?
What ended up making you jump to Europe to work on an international football team?
And then what did that look like for that stretch and that challenge to become the leader that you wanted to be?
Milam Miller (03:31):
Absolutely.
Thanks for asking.
So for any listeners out there that have had a big childhood dream, this episode's for you.
When I was a young kid, I knew I grew up knowing one type of religion.
And while my mom would hate me saying this, it was football.
We went to church every Sunday in Texas, but right after church, we'd race home, you know, try to beat the.
At the Methodist church, try to beat the Baptist church, the people out of the parking lot to watch the Dallas Cowboys.
(03:55):
And I just had such an affinity for live sport and entertainment and the uncertainty and the action that really pulls us in.
Right.
So it didn't really matter what sport it could have been.
American football, basketball, I love March Madness, NBA, and even baseball.
Coincidentally, I was a New York Yankees fan because that was the dynasty of the 90s that I grew up idolizing.
(04:17):
And so I knew somewhere deep down, I want to work in the sports industry, but I don't know necessarily where.
And I know that can be very cumbersome for a lot of people earlier in their career, they want to enter a sector, a space, fashion, you name it, music.
But, like, how do I actually break in?
And so for me, my journey did take me to New York, and I thought, full well, Kendall, like, I'm going to go work for the New York Yankees.
(04:39):
Like, if there is a will, there is a way.
And I had an example, right, that we' we have mentors.
Tell us, find somebody who has the job you want and work back the steps to get there.
And I thought, okay, I'm going to be the general manager of the New York Yankees.
I'm going to be the next Brian Cashman.
Kendall, this guy's had the job for the last 27 years.
He's got good job security.
Kendall Berg (04:57):
So not going anywhere.
Not going anywhere.
Milam Miller (04:59):
Unfortunately, Brian and I did not connect.
He did not take me under his wing like I had hoped.
But the best part of my story is being open, being curious, being willing to network, get uncomfortable in social rooms, that sometimes I felt like I didn't belong, or I thought maybe I was too friendly as the Texan, like, not tough enough, not rough enough.
I didn't have that New York bravado.
(05:20):
But through a series of events, I got connected to a sports team owner.
And he had investments in a number of teams.
But his crown jewel, if you will, was this European football club called AS Roma.
When he bought into the ownership group, he was not the majority owner.
And this is kind of a, you know, peek behind the curtain.
This typically happens, but due to a series of events, he bought out some of his partners, became the majority owner, and he had a very clear vision for the club.
(05:44):
I want to deliver a modern day Coliseum to Rome.
So in other words, I want to build a new stadium.
And when you go to Rome, you're going to go to the old stadium and then you're going to come to our new one to see soccer, art shows, film festivals, you name it, right?
It was going to be programmed, mixed use, 365 days per year.
And so there's a lot of twists and turns that happened on that journey.
(06:05):
I want to tell you more, but maybe it's good.
I take a pause and just, bottom line, the fact that I never saw working in soccer for myself, but it happened.
And as a result, I had to be really nimble, I had to be agile and figure out, okay, I don't know soccer, but I know people I don't know the league, I don't even know the relegation, delegation model, all these things you can learn.
(06:30):
But I was like, but I do understand business and I do understand how to get deals done.
And that served me.
And what I realized in doing those deals was that charisma was the skill that I utilize the most.
Kendall Berg (06:41):
And this is why you get the nickname the Real Life Ted Lasso.
Because if you watch Ted Lasso, he knows nothing about Soccer, though he's the coach of the team.
What he understands is people.
He understands how to motivate and how to accelerate and how to challenge and how to get a team aligned to a common goal.
And it seems like you really did the same thing as you came in on this big Coliseum project and on this opportunity to work with the.
(07:05):
With these salespeople.
So you talked about charisma.
I'd like to think I have it.
So what is it?
Right.
Like, this is to me, very nebulous, like, executive presence.
People talk about it, you need to have it.
And then they're like, great.
What does that mean tactically?
And they're like, I don't know.
You just be more in a meeting.
Right.
So what is charisma?
Why is it so important?
(07:26):
Why was it so important for you in this situation?
Because I hear it all the time, like, this person's great, but they just don't have the.
The it factor, that extra, that executive presence.
So what does that mean?
Milam Miller (07:38):
Yeah, so let me break all of this down because I love whenever they say it.
Can can that not be more like, bland and basic?
Like, what is it?
So let's get real specific.
Charisma is two way human connection.
This conversation you and I are having, Kindle, not one way attraction.
So what Riz is not, and I think a, perhaps a younger generation is being told is that it's looking fly, it's having fresh new Nikes, or blending and conforming.
(08:05):
Charisma is not that it's being authentic enough to stand out, bold enough to stand out, and curious enough about yourself and others to actually engage and reach a lot of depth.
Because we're attracted to people that are authentically themselves.
We like to celebrate boldness when we see it.
It kind of gives us that, ooh, I want to step into my power in that way.
But it's the individuals that don't lose sight of that, see that curiosity.
(08:28):
Because we're always changing, we're always evolving.
But they curious about others.
It leaves this feeling of they made me feel like the most important person in the room.
They might look fly still.
Like, it's not that you don't have to look good.
We want to look good and feel good, but it's so that we can do good towards others.
And so I, in my own journey, had to realize, I thought charisma was very ambassadorial, the politician with good hair and like a good speaker.
(08:53):
And I realized, no, it's that person that made me feel seen, heard, and remembered.
Kendall Berg (08:58):
What you Just touched on, I think is a big misconception.
Especially, you know, so many of our listeners are going to be in the career landscape when people think, oh, I need to have more executive presence, I need to have more charisma, I need to show up a stronger personality.
We think us focused.
I need to be louder, I need to talk more, I need to have more opinions.
(09:18):
But studies have shown psychologically that the person who talks the most in an interaction thinks that the conversation went the best.
And so if you are trying to build connection with somebody else, get them to talk, get them to share their perspective, get them to feel that you're authentically engaging with them and you're present with them and they're going to think that conversation went really well.
(09:39):
They're going to think you've got Riz.
And this can be such a misconception where we do see the politician on TV or we see the, you know, executive in the boardroom and they do talk a lot, they hold a lot of space.
But it's not just that.
Right.
That might be your perspective in one nuanced situation or in one meeting.
But most of my executives never talk on calls unless they're going to ask a question or two.
(10:02):
Right.
They're just there to make a decision.
They're there to poke and prod and push people forward.
And it's great that you're calling that out, that it has to be that two way.
Right.
When we're to us focused, we're not going to build connection, we're not going to build those relationships and that's what we're going to need long term.
So why does this get a bad rep?
Right?
So we talked about the misconception of like, oh, in order to have charisma, I have to be the loudest, the boldest, the most unique, best shiny tennis.
(10:30):
Like we talked about that piece.
What are some other reasons why it gets a misconception?
Is like having Riz is a bad thing.
Especially in the context of like the workplace and relationship building.
Milam Miller (10:41):
Sure.
So let's draw distinctions.
Charisma is the ability to inspire and influence to move people forward.
So using your example, Kendyl, it's that CEO that's joining the call not to dominate it and be like, check out what we did.
Like I did this, I instated this policy.
It's so great because xyz, it's that executive that he, she, them are asking open ended questions.
(11:01):
Kendall, what's working for you and your team?
Kendall, what's not?
Why do you think that is getting really curious about your leadership style to empower you to go and lead your team.
So when we talk about influencing, charisma is a skill that helps you increase your influence.
It also helps you grow your goodwill because they're going to remember how you made them feel.
Charisma is not manipulating.
(11:22):
Manipulation is saying one thing to get you to like, think or believe another, or it's coercing you.
If you don't do this by then, you're not getting the promotion.
Or I will remember if you didn't do it my way.
Because we had this discussion and I'm date stamping.
We're, we're building a case that's not charisma.
Right.
That's a very authoritarian model.
(11:43):
So I think what happens is when we think of charisma, we think it's a pinnacle we reach.
Like once I have the corner office and I've become CEO, then I'm charismatic.
What I'm trying to argue is that the craft is actually something that you need to develop early in your career to enhance your risk factor.
Not it.
What is it?
It's your two way human connection.
(12:04):
That's really what it is.
Because in doing so, you're going to get noticed.
You're going to have people who want to champion you and sponsor you and pull you up.
And your job isn't to carbon copy what they do, not to emulate them.
It's to pull best practice, but make it your own.
And that is how you develop your craft.
Kendall Berg (12:20):
It's so true.
And it's funny when I think back on my own career.
You know, I've shared on this podcast before, the reason I became a career coach is because I sucked at exactly what you're describing.
Right.
I was terrible at.
Milam Miller (12:33):
Love the authenticity.
Yeah, right.
Kendall Berg (12:35):
I was terrible at the human connection.
I was terrible at being curious about other people because I was too focused on me, my priorities, what I had to do, getting my work done, clearing off my plate so that I could log off and go home.
And that caused a lot of tension early on in my career where people, even executives, would tell me, hey, I love having you on my team.
You produce way more than most of my team members.
(12:56):
Nobody likes working with you, and you need to figure out that piece.
And I've talked about this before, I've done other episodes on it.
But what I forced into being that you're describing so eloquently is I had to learn to care about other people and what was important to them and what made them Tick and why were they doing the things they were doing and build that two way understanding or I would have gotten stuck.
(13:22):
And then what's funny is as my tran.
As my career progressed, I got the title as the translator.
Like, oh, she can talk to anybody and get what they're saying and give them the message and make sure that everybody hears the same thing.
And the great irony is that's because it's what I was worse at and that's what I didn't do well and that's what I wasn't capable at.
So I believe Riz can be taught.
(13:43):
I believe Riz can be learned.
So how does somebody do that?
They're listening to this and they're like, okay, so I need to work on my Riz, I need to work on my craft.
How do they start to build this skill?
Because I 1000% agree with you're going to get stuck at some point if you don't learn how.
Milam Miller (13:59):
Sure.
Before I answer that, I feel like I'd be remiss not to highlight.
You are a case study, Kendall to all of your listeners that it is possible.
Right.
And to embody this archetype of the translator.
I really want to like hone in on that is so brilliant because maybe early on you weren't, but you developed the skill to then translate what was being said and received neuro linguistic programming differently from sender and receiver, but also what's not being said, what's being left unsaid.
(14:27):
And so much in the workplace now, especially in digital environments, the colleague who's sitting there quietly and they're actually like burning inside.
Like they're enraged and they want to say something, but they're not.
And it's the leader that's caring and compassionate and either says in the moment, hey, if you feel safe to share, I'd love to hear what you're thinking or they pull them aside afterwards and said what was going on.
I noticed something, I sensed something.
(14:48):
How can I best support you?
The power of healthy charisma.
That's what we need in the workplace.
Because then we feel more bonded, we feel more psychologically safe.
And again, we're going to build more high performing teams that yield better external results.
So so much of my lens is thinking about the end user, in other words, the client, the customer.
So I will answer your question.
(15:09):
How do we develop this?
I think we need to take that customer centric approach.
Every day when I show up to work, what am I doing to advance the business, the company and how can I show up as the best version of myself to do it?
So the first step is mindset.
You've got to believe that it is possible to develop this skill and not have any sort of limiting belief or construct on you that you just don't have it.
(15:32):
So I say, number one, it's not an inborn personality trait.
It's a skill you can develop.
Let's shift your mindset.
Number two, you have to decide what you're embodying.
And in your case, Kendyl, you said the translator.
In my book, I have six different types of leadership archetypes.
Six different types of.
Of archetypes.
There you go.
A lot of types.
And I'll give you just some examples.
We have the maverick, and I use.
(15:53):
I use sports examples.
So in my case, it's Megan Rapinoe, because she was a maverick in women's soccer.
She tore both of her ACLs early on in her career.
She was an advocate for championing equal playing conditions, not just equal pay.
We'll get there.
But women were playing on turf fields, men were playing on grass.
And there was a disproportionate number of ACL tears for the women playing on turf than men playing on grass.
(16:15):
And these studies, she was like, yo, the math ain't math.
And like, why aren't we playing on real grass?
And then that was, you know, a win.
She stacked more WINS.
Now the U.S.
women's National Team, rightfully so, They've been phenomenally successful, Is paid equal just as much as the male counterparts, who, for the record, just numbers don't lie, have not been as successful.
So I say that because that's a type of archetype that you can embody if you want to be, if you want to stand for something and get noticed, but say that's not your style and you're a little bit, like, softer.
(16:47):
Speaking up doesn't come as naturally.
You can do it in a different way.
And I call this the seeker.
And I'll.
I'll use another female example.
I do have male and female in the book.
Allison Felix.
She is the most decorated track and field athlete, but she didn't set out to win more Olympic golds than anyone else.
She was just seeking meaning out of her work.
So she's run so many different types of races.
(17:07):
The a hundred meter, the 200 meter.
And she realized along the way, the shoes I'm wearing were built off a male's prototype.
And why are women running in foot molds that weren't made from a woman's foot.
So she's always seeking a better way.
And if you are more soft spoken but you see solutions, you identify ways to better connect with the customer or ways to serve them.
(17:29):
When you speak up, you carry more weight, you carry more gravitas.
So it's really embodying these skills that you have to figure out what works for you and your personality type.
That's the second thing.
And then finally third, it's deploying tools for connection.
I have so many in the book, I wish I could go into them, but I'll leave one for listeners say, you're early on in your career and it's or silly.
(17:50):
We like to yap.
Like were saying, let's chit chat.
But I always say, don't spill the tea.
In other words, if you really want to ascend as a leader and somebody that's a magnetic leader and people want to are attracted to and want to follow, then don't talk about other people.
Because then when you talk about them, they're going to say if you talk about other people with them, they're going to wonder, are you talking about me when I'm not in the room?
So I use that acronym table break it down.
(18:13):
Very simply, if somebody comes to you a direct report and they want to gossip about someone, you can subtly just change the narrative.
You can say, t, tell me about your tasks you're working on like, or how did this interpersonal conflict come up?
And then kind of delve into, well, what were the expectations that you had the other person because you might be talking a little bit of trash on them.
And then finally say, well, let's figure out an action plan together.
(18:35):
Tell me about the tasks.
Let's explain the expectations on both part and then let's advance an action plan together.
And that is a way to show up as the leader.
You want to be a leader with healthy charisma.
Kendall Berg (18:46):
I've done a whole episode on why not to gossip, so I love that you're bringing this up.
In fact, when I had Farah Shargi on my podcast, we joked about starting an entire podcast called Girl shut your mouth.
Like stuff people say at work that you just should not say at work because I do think that undermines your credibility faster than anything else.
If you're sitting there talking badly about somebody, especially in your team.
(19:09):
I hear this all the time.
Clients will come to me and say, oh well, my boss was complaining about this other girl in my organization and asked me to help.
I'm like, oh no, that should never happen.
Right.
That's not the way to handle those situations.
And so it's important to me that's part of your message because I think charisma is just as easily lost.
If you're too focused on interpersonal conflict in a negative way as opposed to your point, expectations and actions to overcome it.
(19:37):
That is actually going to better for you long term.
Whether you're listening to this and you're in a leadership position or you want to be or you just want to be more successful at work.
Like shut that down.
That's not good.
No point am I going to my boss saying, Milam made weird eye contact with me yesterday and now I hate him.
Like, don't.
That's not important.
And I'll.
I'll caveat this quickly for listeners because I talk about this on other episodes.
(19:59):
Episodes.
It is important to cya cover your assets.
Yes, it is important to cover your assets.
When you're working with someone who you feel may take negative action towards you.
You want your boss to have a heads up before that happens.
Right.
You don't want the first time they hear about an issue to be from somebody else.
But the way you do that is by taking personal accountability.
(20:21):
Hey, I'm working with this individual.
It seems like maybe our expectations weren't fully communicated.
There was an issue where I missed the mark on this and in reality, in return, this person did this.
I think I have it handled.
I spent some one one time with them.
I've resolved it.
But want you to be aware that is very different than Mila made where eye contact with me after a meeting.
(20:42):
And now I think he hates me.
So I hate him on principle.
Right.
We need to take some accountability and in our sense of self.
And again, this ties back to where you started the episode of it's that two way connection.
If I'm having friction with somebody at work, it's not just them I want it to be.
That'd make my life way easier to be like, that person sucks and I'm perfect.
Right.
But that's not the reality.
(21:03):
Right.
I saw a meme this weekend and it was somebody driving and it was like, if you're driving faster than me in the fast lane, you're driving too fast.
And if you're driving slower than me in the fast lane, you're driving too slow.
And I as always am perfect.
And that's how we feel about work is we're like, if you are copying attitude with me at work, you're the problem.
(21:23):
If I'M copying attitude with you at work.
I'm perfect and you did something to deserve it.
And like that's not really the way that two way interaction works.
So I love all of the things you're saying.
These are so many good nuggets for people who are listening to take away.
So I have to ask the question that's coming up on every episode right now.
AI the boogeyman.
Milam Miller (21:40):
Yeah.
Kendall Berg (21:41):
Becoming more and more present in the workplace.
I'm seeing more and more positives and negatives as a result.
How is leadership going to be affected by AI?
How is this charisma going to be devalued or more valued?
Like what are some of the impacts of this advancing technology on some of these skills that we're talking about?
Milam Miller (22:03):
Totally great question.
And I do want to come back to the T tactic because I, you, I love how you played that back to me.
That was so brilliant.
Right.
Maybe we'll put a pin on that.
We'll put it in the parking lot.
But for AI specifically, Kendall, I would love for listeners to challenge me or challenge us.
I think AI can tell you how to become more charismatic in a traditional sense, but what it can't do is implement it for you.
(22:25):
It can't test, trial and error it for you.
You know, test it out.
I always say that enhancing your risk factor, like you said, whether you're an established leader, maybe struggling to connect with a multi generational workforce, or you desire to become a leader, it is.
There's so much experimentation involved.
We are all uniquely one of one.
(22:46):
Kindleberg is not the same as Milo Miller.
We might have similarities, of course we have differences, but every single person you work with is distinctly and uniquely different.
So these feedback loops of communication and again, what's said and left unsaid, it's important that we're working to grow that goodwill.
And the individuals who learn how to deploy charisma, those are the ones that, yeah, they might get the script from AI, but they're the ones who are actually building the skill.
(23:12):
So I talk to all my AI friends, my chat GPT, my Claude, my, you know, and they'll tell me different things.
But at the end of the day, I think with charisma is a very powerful skill and with that power comes great responsibility.
So it's on me to use it with great care and great intention.
So I've got to practice it, I've got to refine it and I've got to really be able to look at myself in the mirror and be like, was that in the spirit of connection, not in the spirit of, like, we talked about coercion or manipulation.
Kendall Berg (23:37):
The whole time I'm thinking in my head tone, because Mylam, what you're saying is AI can tell you what to say.
It can't tell you how to say it right.
It can't tell you how to connect.
It can't tell you how to build those relationships.
And I've talked about this with my team.
I think Riz, for lack of a better term, is going to be more important in the full AI deployment age than it was before, because that's our main differentiating factor.
(24:01):
As AI takes over, more technical skills, more writing skills, more thought skills, the big differentiator in performance is going to be, how did you deliver it?
Right?
And I've had clients come to me and say, kendall, this is what I said verbatim in a meeting.
And I'm like, that sounds great.
How'd you say it?
Like, well, what do you mean?
(24:21):
And I was like, I want you to say it to me exactly how you said it in the meeting.
And they'll deadpan recite it.
And I'm like, yeah, no.
So that reeks of inauthenticity, overpreparedness.
You don't actually care about the outcome.
You're not seeking approval from the other person.
It feels manipulative.
Like, that's not what we're trying to achieve.
What we're trying to do is build that authenticity into what you're communicating.
(24:43):
So I 1000% agree with you.
And even when we go back to you talking about being in Italy and, you know, not necessarily speaking Italian and your y' all comes out, it's tone, you may be speaking something that is completely gibberish to that person, but if you seem real and authentic and absolutely engaged, there's something still charismatic about that, as opposed to inauthentic, fake, manipulative, even if it's in the right language.
(25:07):
So I definitely love how you're pulling those together.
Milam Miller (25:10):
Totally.
I love this framework of not what you say.
You can have an AI prompter tell you what, but how.
And what's coming up for me too is again, having been in sales, I think about all these inbounds I now receive, and it's like, hey, Kendyl, like, spotted this.
Here's how I think I can be of value to you.
And then I get another DM or message like three hours later.
It's like, hey, have you read this yet?
Hey.
Circling back.
(25:30):
Hey.
Following up.
Hey.
And then at the End.
It's always like, no hard feelings, just tell me no.
Or they ask for permission, like, can I send you a video?
Can I tell you more?
And I'm like, we need to eradicate follow up, circle circling back.
Because at the end of the day, it feels it's putting pressure on the other person.
And it's not like, hey, Kendall, let's have a conversation.
Kendall, I know you're busy.
(25:51):
Do you have time this Friday at 11am there's no like actual clear call to action.
And AI misses that nuance.
Sometimes it's just like, oh, I'm going to appear friendly.
Friendliness or affability doesn't automatically mean you're charismatic.
We might have been taught that, but it truly does go so much deeper.
So whenever we talk about this construct that can feel ineffable or mystical and like some sort of superpower, that's why you have to try it on and make the craft your own.
(26:18):
It's how you say it.
And the only way we're going to learn how to get better or how to talk to that individual is through that feedback loop and that honest, open communication.
Kendall Berg (26:28):
So if you work at LinkedIn and you're listening to this episode, don't come for me.
But if I get one more AI written message in my LinkedIn inbox talking about how they can maximize the SEO on my YouTube, I'm gonna lose my mind.
Okay?
Because you're right, there's no authentic connection there.
Right?
And this is somewhere where I think, you know, speaking to the coaches population here, coaches go really awry.
(26:51):
We're sending these super dry, super AI generated, like, hey, I saw you liked my post.
Would you be interested in career coaching?
Like, it's gross.
And I feel that authenticity attracts people so much more.
And I was actually having a conversation with a coach yesterday who was asking about my business model, who you actually introduced me to.
And I shared with her.
I was like, I don't do any outreach.
(27:13):
She's like, why not?
I was like, because the right people are going to be attracted to the authenticity in my content and they're going to come to me and I don't feel like I show up.
The best version of myself in outreach.
I become like this weird, watered down sales pitch version of myself that I don't like.
Right?
And that's not to say outreach doesn't have its place in business because obviously it works for a lot of people, but for me, it's not authentic to my craft.
(27:39):
Right.
To me, it devalues the perspective that I bring in my content if then I'm going to like.
So I saw you like my podcast episode.
I have one more spot left this month if you'd like to claim it.
Like, that's just not who I am.
And so I love that.
We've talked through so many different aspects of this, of building your charisma, your genuine interest in other people, keeping that curiosity, making sure we're addressing gossip with tea as opposed to spilling it ourselves.
(28:09):
And then this full circle of like, how to implement, like use AI as a tool.
You know, there's coaching tools out there now that I always joke I'm like, I'm going to be replacing by AI at some point.
But AI can't teach you how to say it.
They can teach you what to say, but not how to implement.
And so many great aspects today.
If people are listening and they love this episode, which I'm sure that they did, what do you want to tell them?
(28:29):
Like, hey, Milam's one piece of advice tomorrow, if you want to improve your charisma, if you want to get better, go do this thing.
What's that?
One big takeaway for them.
Milam Miller (28:39):
Absolutely.
One big takeaway.
Go have more IRL in real life conversations, full stop.
Put yourself out there, get uncomfortable, get comfortable being uncomfortable, if that's possible for you.
It's, it's.
I know it sounds cliche, but it's true.
I think the top skill in the future of work is going to be active listening.
(28:59):
And I say that as somebody who uses an AI recording tool on all of my client calls and takes far better notes than I ever could have.
But I've got to be able to dissect that, deduce that, and remember in my own brain that most important thing my client, my customer said, the person it is whom I'm leading or serving.
So that whenever I do have that IRL conversation, I can double click on it.
(29:21):
To use corporate lingo, I can go deeper with the person.
I can say, I know this matters to you, so I don't think we should discredit active listening as a skill.
It's going to make you more charismatic, but also conversations and even casual conversations.
We've pooed on small talk for so long, but there actually is mounting research that says even just talking to our barista, I was talking to the guy at the car wash the other day, right?
(29:45):
And had the most connected human conversation with him that could have been transactional.
Like, you're here for a car Wash like, but it's, that is what makes us feel more human and more alive.
And so don't discredit casual conversations because that's gonna help you develop your or enhance your risk factor.
It's practice and we need reps in life.
So go out there and have more IRL conversations.
Kendall Berg (30:07):
Such a good take and quick anecdote on that topic.
I had a client, this is probably three years ago, came in for a potential sales call, was interested in working on coaching, was making a pivot in their career.
I think we did one session or two sessions back in the day you used to be able to book a la carte with me.
So we did, I think one or two sessions, chatted about some things.
So fast forward three years, I go in for a conversation with this company about a brand deal and I'm like, you look so familiar.
(30:33):
And she's like, yeah, we actually talked three years ago.
And I'm like, you worked at this company and you were looking for this change.
Did you actually end up getting your promotion into this role?
She's like, I cannot believe that you remember that.
And I was like, but it was the most important thing that she said in a one hour call that it stuck in my brain because you are paying attention.
You are trying to build authentic connection and so absolutely true.
(30:55):
There's a million ways where this can come to manifest and how things can work out long term.
You know, they say it's a small world with what is it, seven degrees of separation.
And it really is so fabulous.
Takeaway, Mylam.
If you guys are listening to this episode and you loved it as much as I did, go ahead, leave us five stars.
If you have any questions for Mylamore myself, leave them below.
Otherwise we will have to have you back on.
(31:15):
This was amazing.
But if people want to find out more about you want to get your book, where do they go?
Milam Miller (31:20):
Absolutely.
You can find out more about me and my practice.
Be confident and kind on the world wide web we are be confidentandkind.com and my book is available now on Amazon.
The Charisma Craft.
I'm so excited to get this body of work in the world and I know that your career tips, all 36 of them, Kindle.
There's a lot of synergy with what I have in here.
Kendall Berg (31:40):
That's awesome.
Well, thanks so much Mylon for calling on the episode.
We will put all those links in the show notes if you guys want to check them out.
Otherwise we'll have to have you back.
But thanks for taking the time today.
Milam Miller (31:48):
Thanks so much for having me.
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