May 29, 2025 • 40 mins
In this episode, I sit down with Amy LeClair, PhD — a medical sociologist and recent K to R Essentials graduate — for a powerful conversation about moving from being a perpetual collaborator to pursuing independent research, describing how she found support through structured mentorship and community during a pivotal career phase. She discusses the challenges of balancing her research on healthcare equity with personal life changes, including welcoming twins while pursuing her professional goals.
In this episode, we discuss:
• Moving from supporting other researchers to driving her own research agenda on LGBTQIA+ health equity
• Recognizing the need for support during the K-to-R transition rather than struggling alone
• Understanding that perfectionism and comparison to others can derail research productivity
• Learning practical strategies like periodization (A weeks and B weeks) to maintain momentum during busy periods
• Finding value in community during times of funding uncertainty in academic research
• Developing a clear professional "North Star" to guide decisions during challenging circumstances
• Normalizing the idea of seeking specialized support for career development in academia
Whether you’re early in your K award or eyeing your next submission deadline, this conversation is a reminder that betting on yourself is always a wise decision.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
If you aren't already on the wait list for the next
cohort of K-R Essentials, headto our website to sign up so
that you can be the first tohear all the details about the
program and to get yourquestions answered.
You can do that atsarahdobsonco slash k2r, that's
S-A-R-A-H-D-O-B-S-O-N, dot C-O.
Slash K, number 2 R.
Today's episode is aconversation with a recent K-R
(00:22):
Essentials graduate.
Today's episode is aconversation with a recent K-R
Essentials graduate.
These episodes are reallyspecial.
They're a little longer than atypical episode.
You'll hear from me and, ofcourse, you get to hear directly
from a former student abouttheir experience in the program.
The reason I love theseconversations so much, aside
from getting to chat with agraduate, is because it's one
(00:51):
thing to hear me talk about theperspectives and tools that I
teach inside K-R Essentials, butit's another thing entirely to
hear someone who's applied thosetools and perspectives in their
own career and to hear whathappened when they did.
Here's our conversation.
Welcome, welcome.
So the very first thing, canyou introduce yourself and share
your pronouns?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
My name is Amy LeClaire.
My pronouns are she, her.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
And just tell us a little bit about your research
and what drew you to that areaof research in the first place.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I am a medical sociologist and a qualitative
researcher by training.
Sociologist and a qualitativeresearcher by training and I
think globally my research isfocused on health equity and
specifically structural levelinterventions to the healthcare
system rather than patient levelinterventions.
(01:40):
I went into my PhD programreally focused on gender and
sexuality and race and ethnicityand kind of those broader to
healthcare.
But I have found that as asociologist, bringing those
(02:08):
lenses to the study ofhealthcare, specifically in the
United States, has been soexciting and infuriating and
rewarding and there's so muchthat sociology can teach us
about the healthcare system.
And so a lot of my work hasbeen partnering with clinician
(02:30):
researchers in differentspecialties or disease areas
like primary care or infectiousdisease or working with a
rheumatologist on lupus andfinding ways to use my strengths
to enhance their work, and theneventually ended up at a place
(02:51):
where I wanted to do my own workand kind of get back to driving
the research agenda instead ofjust participating, and so have
been focusing on LGBTQIA plushealth equity and one of the
things I love about thatpopulation is the
intersectionality and that itbrings in all of those other
(03:14):
aspects of life, and so that iswhere my research is focused now
and specifically on looking atdata collection and clinical
spaces, because if we don'tidentify people, we literally
make them invisible in healthequity research.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, and can you paint us a picture, amy, of your
experience in your K award andwhat that has been like for you?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, so I had an internal K through the Birch
program, which is buildinginterdisciplinary career,
research careers in women'shealth.
And you know, as I've sharedwith you, in the position I was
in, I was faculty but had kindof always been the bridesmaid
and never the bride and wasreally functioning as a we
(04:07):
jokingly use the wordqualitician because it's normal
to have like a statistician joinyour team but there's less of a
mold for people that doqualitative research but really
functioning in the same way.
And I was working on thisproject around patient
navigation for breast cancerpatients in the city of Boston,
(04:31):
and it was focused mostly onracial and ethnic disparities,
although we looked at some otherfactors and I thought, wow, it
would be really cool totranslate this program for
sexual and gender minoritypeople with breast cancer,
because there are knowndisparities there.
And I realized that in thesystems that we were conducting
(04:52):
this clinical trial, most ofthem didn't collect that data
and so there was no way to dothat, there was no way to tailor
this program.
And my mentor was like whydon't you apply?
You know you're at this pointin your position.
Why don't you apply for this?
That hadn't really been theplan, you know, and so I applied
(05:13):
.
It took me three cycles, um,but when I finally got it, I
didn't know how much I wanted ituntil I got it, um.
So I got two years on the birchbut, as happens with NIH
funding, two years was reallyone year and nine months, and
then there was, you know,applying for extensions and
(05:33):
things.
But it was really great becauseduring the different cycles
that it took me to get funded, Iwas able to start some of the
work.
I had this unbelievableundergraduate research assistant
and it was just so.
(05:57):
One of the things that I'vealways found really interesting
in the research that I do, andone of the things I like about
partnering with cliniciansacross diseases or across
specialties, is what is commonacross all of these conditions
rather than what is unique,because I think those point to
some fundamental flaws in ourhealthcare system and those are
(06:19):
all opportunities forintervention.
Those are all opportunities tomake things better for people.
Opportunities for intervention,those are all opportunities to
make things better for people.
And so, talking with my firstaim of my K was understanding
barriers and facilitators tosexual orientation and gender
identity, or SOGI, datacollection in a primary care
(06:40):
setting and, at the time, thepractice that I was studying,
had not yet implemented that.
So it was, you know, kind ofperceived, and it was just so
interesting to me how manypeople had never thought about
this.
And that's not their fault,it's not what they're trained to
do.
(07:02):
And I think increasingly we askpeople to do things without any
training or without anyintroduction.
And we wouldn't take thatapproach to, I don't know,
working on a car.
You know you wouldn't handsomeone a car and say, hey, can
(07:25):
you fix this without giving themtraining about, and they'd be
like, oh, I've never worked witha Subaru before, I've only
worked on bicycles.
Right, like you wouldn't dothat.
But we do that in healthcaresometimes.
And so it was just reallyinteresting to again talk to
people and kind of hear themthink through this for the first
(07:48):
time and articulate,intentionally or not, some of
the big gaps in the structure ofhealthcare, something like
gender neutral bathrooms, justnot having that, and getting
people to think about what itmeans for a structure, for an
(08:10):
organization, for a facility tobe cis, normative or
heteronormative.
And so that was the beginningof my K, and then I've just, you
know, been kind of chuggingalong and trying to figure out
what the next steps are.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And so way back I mean it feels like eons ago, but
way back in the fall of 2024,as you were considering joining
K to R Essentials what was goingon for you in that period?
Like, what was it that made youthink like this is something
(08:49):
that I want to do, this issomething that might help me?
Like, what were you strugglingwith?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah.
So one big factor was that inNovember of 2023, we welcomed
twins into my family, and atthat time we had a six-year-old,
and having twins really kind ofsmashed the thinking about what
was next, and I never sawmyself as somebody writing R01s
(09:41):
and leading the program, but itwas like I have to give this a
try, because the other option isto be a full-time collaborator,
and that has its own.
You know challenges, as youknow, and having infants, having
these two small children,creates a lot of challenges in
(10:06):
terms of work-life balance oreven just doing them, not
balancing them, not gettingeverything right.
So in every other area of mylife, I think I'm pretty good at
lining up the supports I need.
(10:27):
So I am not interested in taxesor finances or any of that.
Sure, could I listen to acouple of podcasts or read some
books and do the.
You know how to do research andlearn some things, yeah, but
that's not a good use of my timeand I have zero interest, and
so I hire someone to, you know,to manage that.
(10:48):
I entrust another professionaland I had been following you for
a while.
I first heard about you actuallyat a Birch meeting at my
institution through the Edge forScholars program and it was
like, well, here is a supportsystem, here is an opportunity
(11:09):
to get some guidance.
And I really struggled in gradschool because I didn't
understand the hidden curriculum, I didn't understand how to get
myself those supports.
And so, rather than saying, ohokay, well, it's too late and
I'm at this point and now I needto figure it out on my own.
(11:30):
In the same way, I try and havebackup babysitters and if my
primary childcare falls through,it was like why don't I give
myself some supports, why Idon't have to struggle through
this?
You don't get more money if youstruggle and do it by yourself
and you're probably less likelyto be successful.
(11:51):
And so it just seemed like theright opportunity at the right
time, and really a gift that Icould give myself, to say I
deserve this support, I deservethis type of mentorship and
structure to give myself abetter chance at success in this
career path.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, and I want to just reflect something back to
you that I'm hearing.
Aside from the more sort ofconcrete elements of support
that you're talking about, thestory that you've told to me
sounds a little bit like youwere really finally ready to
just go all in on yourself as aPI.
(12:33):
Like it's not.
You were at this point whereyou had to decide is this
something that I want to do?
And what does that look likefor me?
You know, not just with youngchildren in the mix, but just
like what do I want myprofessional life to look like?
Do I want to be, you know, likea jack of all trades, jill of
(12:54):
all trades, collaborator, or doI want to really be leading
projects?
And how can I make that workfor me?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, absolutely, make that work for me.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think also I didn't have aquote, unquote traditional
career path in terms of, youknow, timing and what I thought
I was training to be when I wentto grad school and what I ended
up doing, and so I thinkthere's always been some level
(13:24):
of shame or kind of likediminishment of myself that
because I was on a differenttimeline, and rather than saying
it kind of doesn't matter how Iended up here or when I'm
ending up here, this is where Iam now and again, I like deserve
(13:45):
to give myself the best shot.
I don't have to apologize, youknow, probably mostly to myself,
but for what it took to gethere.
This is where I am and this isan opportunity that I have now
to support me where I am.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Exactly, Exactly.
And so what?
What were you hoping that thatsupport would look like?
Like, what were you, what wereyou hoping the support would
look like and what were youhoping to achieve having that
support?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I don't know.
I don't know that I had anyhope or expectations about what
I thought it would look like.
Um, you know, I had seen yourother material and liked it and
found it useful and wise andinformative.
Um, and I think it was more ofI'm going to put myself in this
(14:42):
structured environment and seewhat it has to offer.
Yeah, I don't know that I had alot of expectations, but I was
like, well, it's called K to Rand that's what I'm doing, so
let's do it.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I find it so interesting.
I mean, there are plenty ofpeople who come into K to R
Essentials with very specificobjectives about what they want
to accomplish inside the program, and I love hearing the other
side of it, where you're like Ijust needed a container to
figure out what I needed, and Ilove that, because I am the
exact same way in the containersthat I'm in.
(15:21):
I'm like well, I think this isgoing to help me.
I'm not exactly sure how, but Ifeel committed to just
immersing myself in thisexperience and seeing what
emerges for me, and I know thatwhatever emerges is going to be
useful.
Yeah, exactly, that's great.
That's great.
Can you think of a moment or aninsight from the program that
(15:46):
really changed things for you?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I think that.
So a couple of things.
So I think, off the bat, it wasin one of the kind of very
early sessions.
You know you ask us to justtrust the process and you know
you talk a lot about many of thetraits and characteristics and
(16:14):
behaviors that got us to wherewe are no longer serve us.
You know, I think people thatuh end up in PhD school and I'm
sure for MDs as well uh tend tobe type A, um, a little rigid Um
(16:34):
, and it's funny to see thesecharacteristics reflected back
to me and our children Um, rulefollowers, you know, want a
guidebook, want a set ofinstructions and, ironically,
choose this field where thatdoesn't exist.
Right, there's so muchuncertainty, there's most of the
(16:57):
feedback is negative, and soyou asked us to just trust the
process and that, even if wedidn't think it was going to
work or we didn't think it was agood fit for us, and I think
there's also this egotism and Idon't mean that in a negative
way I think there's, um, I thinkit's actually quite
(17:18):
self-sabotaging where we go,well, that's not going to work
for me, or I'm not like otherpeople, or um, you know, and I
heard someone talking once abouta therapist suggesting positive
affirmations and they're like,well, that's ridiculous.
And they're like, okay, well,how are the negative voices
going?
And it's like touche.
And so, you know, you were like, just trust the process and it
(17:43):
felt not silly I don't even knowwhat the right word is, which
is funny because I have a lot ofwords but doing, like the time,
edit, or doing, you know, likecharacterizing what's a rock and
what's sand and what's water,and going through and doing
those exercises.
(18:04):
You know there was a.
I had a reluctance to do themand it was like, well, what is
that?
What's that about?
And rather than taking theemotional space to figure that
out, like, just do it, just dothe exercise, like Sarah told
you to do it, just do it andfinding it really useful.
You know, I know we've talkedbefore.
(18:26):
We have a friend in common andI was talking to her about the
program, was going, and I wassaying, you know we had our
coaching call and Sarah said,you know, keep your eyes on your
own paper.
And I was like, well, first ofall, how dare you?
You know, there is this again,this like comparing ourself,
(18:46):
right.
And so I'm on a coaching callwith these brilliant women and
you know this person is solvingcaregiver burnout and
Alzheimer's right or whatever itis, and I'm like holy moly, you
know I'm just doing this littlething.
And it's like, don't do that,worry about yourself.
Like this isn't a competitionand I think one of the
(19:09):
challenges again in this fieldis there's always someone doing
better than you.
Right, there's always someonewho got their first R when they
were 24 years old or you know,or has six R's or got this grant
on their first submission, andI don't benefit from comparing
myself to that person.
I don't benefit from comparingmyself to someone who's got 72
(19:32):
first author publications firstauthor publications.
What I benefit from is takingthe skills and the lessons that
you are teaching us and applyingthem to myself, and so I feel
like those two things early onthat were like trust the process
and like keep your eyes on yourown paper, like have.
I feel like they've humbled mein a good way and I don't think
(19:56):
of myself as someone with like abig ego.
I think is, you know, ourbrains are our greatest asset
(20:22):
and also our worst enemy, right?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And so a lot of what we talk about, especially in the
early part of the program, isjust, yeah, staying focused eyes
on your own paper, just makesure that you are building trust
and compassion for yourself andnot using that comparison
against yourself, right?
And the other piece of that isto your point about you know,
(20:48):
actually just trusting theprocess and doing the exercises.
It's really easy to look atbecause we're academics, because
we're so bright and we pickthings up really quickly.
We can look at something andlike game out the next steps
without actually doing the work.
And so we understand somethingtheoretically and we're like, oh
(21:09):
yeah, I got it, Like no problem, I got that.
But the actual doing of it, theimplementing of it, teaches you
so much that you could neveranticipate just by understanding
the theory behind it.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And that's really what exactly.
Yeah, Like reading a book aboutriding a bike versus getting on
a bike.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Exactly yeah exactly, and that's the piece around
really just committing to theprocess and trusting it and just
doing it and seeing what youlearn, just really engaging that
curiosity.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and I think what you said, like we tend to
be these analytical, or we arethese analytical people and
again, we can get a little bitcocky without realizing it, or
get a little bit dismissive andbe like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I
(22:00):
get it, without giving ourselvesthe experience and you know,
thinking that we know all theanswers, or like we know what
the outcome is and right, inresearch, you always have to
leave room to be wrong, you haveto be falsifiable or it's not a
(22:23):
question.
You've decided a priori whatthe answer is and we do that to
ourselves in a way we wouldn'tdo that to our work.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, we're always arguing for our own limitations,
and I think that's the egopiece that you're talking about.
It's sort of using our ego andour exceptionalism against
ourselves instead of forourselves, by saying this will
never work for me.
These are all the reasons thatI am theorizing that this is not
going to work out and so I'mjust going to go all in on that
(22:54):
instead of actually tryingsomething and learning from it
and, you know, proving myselfwrong.
Yeah, so, amy, this is sort ofa similar question to the last
one, but I wonder if the answeris a little bit different.
Is there something that youlearned in the program that you
(23:16):
didn't realize that you neededto learn?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yes, definitely.
I think two things that arereally concrete examples are the
periodization, right, so Aweeks and B weeks, and I tend to
be very all or nothing.
And so you know if I'm teachingand I have a class on Thursdays
(23:48):
I had that, you know, thissemester while I was in your
course so much of the prep andthen the teaching itself, and
everything is a high intensityactivity, even if it doesn't
take that many hours.
And so, rather than not gettingany writing done and beating
(24:09):
myself up for it, if I canacknowledge, like, okay, you
know, the second half of thisweek is going to be about
teaching, and so just don't planto get deep thinking work done,
then you're going to be moresuccessful.
I like setting myself up forsuccess.
(24:31):
And then I think the other thingis like scheduling out tasks,
because I have a lot of thislike amorphous free time and oh,
also, don't use your inbox as ato-do list, oops, and so right,
I would be like go into the daywith no plan and be like or my
(24:52):
plan is I'm going to work onthis paper today, which is, you
know, as ridiculous as it soundsand so I think saying, okay,
here's a perfect example, likethis week.
We have a disruption in childcare and we've got backup care.
(25:12):
We've got stuff worked out, butit's a change from our normal
schedule.
We've got stuff worked out, butit's a change from our normal
schedule.
And so my mental load isdifferent this week and then I'm
remembering different things Ihave to do, pick up and drop off
at different times, and justand rather than going okay, well
, this week is shot, I'm notgoing to get anything done, I
can go.
(25:32):
Okay, maybe this isn't a greatweek for some deep thinking work
.
What are some tasks that I canget done?
What are those?
What's the sand that I owe toother people?
That I can check things off alist and get that work done this
week.
And then, if I make you know,instead of saying I'm going to
(25:56):
wrap up this paper, what I'mgoing to do is I'm going to
allot an hour to reviewco-authors' comments, like
something really specific.
But that isn't the deepthinking work on my part.
That is going to have to waituntil next week.
But that doesn't mean I can'tget anything done this week, but
I can work with my ownlimitations or changes and the
(26:18):
amount of effort that I have togive and I can move things
forward.
Yeah, yeah, Well.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So I tend to characterize that and tell me
what you think about that.
I characterize it as sort ofmitigating that tendency towards
perfectionism, Like if I can'tdo it perfectly, I'm not going
to do it at all, so like theregoes the entire week.
But what I'm hearing you say isthat by sort of mitigating that
tendency towards perfectionism,you are able to just maintain
(26:46):
momentum by recognizing theinherent limitations that you
have around you in anyparticular week or or day.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, and I think some of the tools that you've
given us, like allow me to namethat and like just even the
concept of A weeks and B weeks,right, or, and I don't even know
(27:17):
that I have emotional, physicalenergy you have to give to
those tasks and doing theprogress and not the perfection,
because the other thing is,with the perfectionism, then I
wait until the last minute, I dosomething and then I kick
myself for wasting all of thistime.
If I had started this threeweeks ago, this is how much
(27:38):
better it would have been.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
So it's just a lose-lose situation that I
previously would have set myselfup for, but it's really about
recognizing that yourcircumstances are going to look
different and if they are evensomewhat predictable, you can
anticipate what your capacity isand account for that as you are
(28:04):
planning.
So it's a way of beingintentional, and it's also a way
of being kind to yourself byrecognizing things are not
constant.
We've got stuff coming at usall the time, and if we're able
to predict what thosecircumstances look like, even in
very broad strokes, we knowwhat type of energy and focus we
can commit towards thatparticular circumstance.
(28:27):
Yeah, exactly.
So I don't want to gloss overthe fact, amy, that you
participated in a cohort thatbegan in January of 2025.
And so I wonder how being partof this cohort, being part of
(28:49):
this community during what isinarguably an extremely
stressful period really anexistential crisis for higher
education and biomedicalresearch how that sort of shaped
your experience in the program,or how the program shaped your
(29:10):
experience?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, I am so grateful that I am in this
program at this time, becausethe shared experience of being
with all of these otherbrilliant women who rely mostly
on NIH funding to do theircareers, to do the stuff that
(29:40):
they have trained for and thatthey have put years, years into
preparing and building I thinkcan't be understated.
I think there are a lot ofsimilarities to when COVID hit,
and I have an online group ofacademic mamas with babies born
(30:02):
in 2017.
Shout out to my 2017 AMs andthat group during COVID was so
helpful too, because you knowthese natural disasters.
Because you know these naturaldisasters this isn't a natural
disaster, but these externalevents often kind of rip the
(30:24):
roof't again.
I can't even explain it right.
There's this having to dealwith these existential threats
(30:55):
to your way of life and stillhave to go through the day and
send emails and pay your waterbill and pack lunches, and so
being with this group and havingyour guidance and your
leadership has been so helpfulhelpful as a touchstone, and you
(31:17):
know so.
We did the work in January onour North Stars.
Then we got to February andthings really started to fall
off the track.
But having that North Star andsaying, okay, all of this
craziness is happening, that wehave little to no control over
(31:38):
what is your professionalidentity and mission, and having
that to go back to and thensaying, okay, here are all the
circumstances that are beyond mycontrol, what are the things
that I can control?
What are the things that I cancontrol and what can I do for
myself personally,professionally, that is in line
(32:01):
with this North Star is sogrounding and I am deeply,
deeply grateful for the programand for this cohort of women and
for you, because the only waythrough this is in community,
(32:26):
whatever that means to people.
But this is a really importantcommunity to me has been, as you
(32:49):
said, really, really grounding.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
That has been.
My observation in the cohort isthat, on the one hand, it gave
a bit of space for people to airtheir anxieties, but it also, I
think, grounded people in whothey are and why they're here.
And I think when you're facingthat level of uncertainty and
lack of control, that's that'sas you said the one thing you
(33:12):
can always come back to is isyour professional identity and
your and your purpose.
Yeah so, amy, what advice wouldyou have for somebody who's
considering joining K to REssentials about how to get the
most out of the program?
What would you advise?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, so the one would be to do it and to show up
for yourself and to do the workself and to do the work.
And I, you know, in my calendartoday, because you were letting
us repeat the course, which isamazing I have blocked off like
(33:55):
K to R time.
And so you know, it's like ifyou're in physical therapy for
an injury, right, like you haveto do the exercises at home and
you're only hurting yourself ifyou don't do it.
And so for saying that, like,even if it's hard, even if it's,
um, you know, a little bitpainful sometimes, to go through
(34:16):
and do a time audit and bereally honest with how much time
you spend on your phone, ifyou're me, um, and to quantify
that that it is usefulinformation and that you are
worth investing the time, likeof all the time that you have
spent training and writing anddoing coursework and whatever
(34:41):
else you needed to get yourdegree and to establish yourself
as a professional, why wouldn'tyou carve out this small amount
of time relative to everything,it may feel big in the moment,
but to really commit and giveyourself this like that it is a
gift to you and that you, youdon't need to earn it, but like,
(35:05):
by God, have you earned it?
Um, I think that is the is thebiggest thing is to say, like
you know, if you were going totake the GREs or the MCATs or
whatever, you would block offthe time to study because that
standardized test isn't abouthow smart you are, it's about
(35:28):
knowing how to take the test,and so so much of this is the
same thing skill building forwhat you need for this K to R
transition.
And so block off the time to donot the Kaplan, but the Sarah
Dobson work to prepare yourselffor that.
(35:49):
Yeah, I just I really see itlike as a gift to yourself and
that you deserve it.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Is there anything else that you want to add before
we wrap up today?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
No, no, and then I will continue to say things like
I don't want to interrupt you.
Yeah, I think the one thing islike I think sometimes people
can be really skeptical aboutthe kind of not that what you do
is alt-ac or something you know, but is, you know, academia
(36:26):
adjacent and can be kind ofdisparaging, and I think that
maybe in an ideal world therewould be not your business world
, obviously, but there would beless of a demand for these types
of services.
But I think, reallyacknowledging that these are the
things that we are not taughtand we are not trained for.
(36:50):
So you know, like the lastmodule is really about project
management.
Well, and all of it is right,the rocks and the sand and the
water and everything, andsorting these out and blocking
things off, and all of thesetools are how to project manage
yourself, for grant writing andother things and that we are not
(37:14):
taught those tools.
And I think again, there's thisnotion that, like academia and
research are these snowflakesthat you just need a brilliant
brain to do and if you're notsuccessful it's because you, the
individual, are not brilliant,rather than acknowledging that,
(37:36):
like everything else, it is abusiness, it is an industry, it
is a field and that there arethings that we can do to enhance
our opportunities for success,and so I really think that you
spelling that out and providingthose supports is just so
(38:01):
invaluable, because we need toacknowledge that those don't.
Those don't exist.
You know, I think that I ambrilliant at project managing my
household, and so why wouldn'tI take that approach to my work?
And I do it for other people'steams.
(38:21):
I'm great at doing it for otherpeople's teams, and I think
taking this, doing this program,has given me the tools, but
also the insight, to do it formyself.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, thank you for saying that, and I mean I say
something similar in theinvitation to the graduates of
the program to come on to thepodcast.
Right, like we want tonormalize getting support for
the areas of our careers that wehaven't been taught how to
(38:58):
optimize, and there is a certainamount of shame in academic
spaces around first of alladmitting you need help at all
and then actually seeking it outright and so being able to
normalize it in this way byspeaking to people who have
recognized how important it is,I think it's so valuable for
(39:20):
everybody to hear that it's okayto seek help for things that
you want to improve or optimizein your own career, and so thank
you for being here today andsharing your experience and your
wisdom and the amazing insightsand wins that you had in the
(39:45):
program during an incrediblydifficult period.
Truly.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
And thank you, you've been amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Wow, you have been an absolute delight to have in the
program and it has beenwonderful to see you and catch
up, and I look forward to more.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Thanks so much, sarah .
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Significant
Impact from K Award to yourfirst big R1.
If you want to dig deeper intowhat we learned today and move a
significant step closer to asmooth K to R transition, visit
sarahdobsonco slash pod andcheck out all the free stuff we
have to help you do just that.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show to make sure you hear
(40:32):
new episodes as soon as they'rereleased.
And if today's episode made youthink of a colleague or a
friend, please tell them aboutit.
Tune in next time, and thanksagain for listening.
If you aren't already on the wait list for the next
cohort of K-R Essentials, headto our website to sign up so
that you can be the first tohear all the details about the
program and to get yourquestions answered.
You can do that atsarahdobsonco slash k2r, that's
S-A-R-A-H-D-O-B-S-O-N, dot C-O.
Slash K, number 2 R.
Today's episode is aconversation with a recent K-R
(00:22):
Essentials graduate.
Today's episode is aconversation with a recent K-R
Essentials graduate.
These episodes are reallyspecial.
They're a little longer than atypical episode.
You'll hear from me and, ofcourse, you get to hear directly
from a former student abouttheir experience in the program.
The reason I love theseconversations so much, aside
from getting to chat with agraduate, is because it's one
(00:51):
thing to hear me talk about theperspectives and tools that I
teach inside K-R Essentials, butit's another thing entirely to
hear someone who's applied thosetools and perspectives in their
own career and to hear whathappened when they did.
Here's our conversation.
Welcome, welcome.
So the very first thing, canyou introduce yourself and share
your pronouns?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (01:07):
My name is Amy LeClaire.
My pronouns are she, her.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
And just tell us a little bit about your research
and what drew you to that areaof research in the first place.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Yeah, I am a medical sociologist and a qualitative
researcher by training.
Sociologist and a qualitativeresearcher by training and I
think globally my research isfocused on health equity and
specifically structural levelinterventions to the healthcare
system rather than patient levelinterventions.
(01:40):
I went into my PhD programreally focused on gender and
sexuality and race and ethnicityand kind of those broader to
healthcare.
But I have found that as asociologist, bringing those
(02:08):
lenses to the study ofhealthcare, specifically in the
United States, has been soexciting and infuriating and
rewarding and there's so muchthat sociology can teach us
about the healthcare system.
And so a lot of my work hasbeen partnering with clinician
(02:30):
researchers in differentspecialties or disease areas
like primary care or infectiousdisease or working with a
rheumatologist on lupus andfinding ways to use my strengths
to enhance their work, and theneventually ended up at a place
(02:51):
where I wanted to do my own workand kind of get back to driving
the research agenda instead ofjust participating, and so have
been focusing on LGBTQIA plushealth equity and one of the
things I love about thatpopulation is the
intersectionality and that itbrings in all of those other
(03:14):
aspects of life, and so that iswhere my research is focused now
and specifically on looking atdata collection and clinical
spaces, because if we don'tidentify people, we literally
make them invisible in healthequity research.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Yeah, and can you paint us a picture, amy, of your
experience in your K award andwhat that has been like for you?
Speaker 2 (03:41):
Yeah, so I had an internal K through the Birch
program, which is buildinginterdisciplinary career,
research careers in women'shealth.
And you know, as I've sharedwith you, in the position I was
in, I was faculty but had kindof always been the bridesmaid
and never the bride and wasreally functioning as a we
(04:07):
jokingly use the wordqualitician because it's normal
to have like a statistician joinyour team but there's less of a
mold for people that doqualitative research but really
functioning in the same way.
And I was working on thisproject around patient
navigation for breast cancerpatients in the city of Boston,
(04:31):
and it was focused mostly onracial and ethnic disparities,
although we looked at some otherfactors and I thought, wow, it
would be really cool totranslate this program for
sexual and gender minoritypeople with breast cancer,
because there are knowndisparities there.
And I realized that in thesystems that we were conducting
(04:52):
this clinical trial, most ofthem didn't collect that data
and so there was no way to dothat, there was no way to tailor
this program.
And my mentor was like whydon't you apply?
You know you're at this pointin your position.
Why don't you apply for this?
That hadn't really been theplan, you know, and so I applied
(05:13):
.
It took me three cycles, um,but when I finally got it, I
didn't know how much I wanted ituntil I got it, um.
So I got two years on the birchbut, as happens with NIH
funding, two years was reallyone year and nine months, and
then there was, you know,applying for extensions and
(05:33):
things.
But it was really great becauseduring the different cycles
that it took me to get funded, Iwas able to start some of the
work.
I had this unbelievableundergraduate research assistant
and it was just so.
(05:57):
One of the things that I'vealways found really interesting
in the research that I do, andone of the things I like about
partnering with cliniciansacross diseases or across
specialties, is what is commonacross all of these conditions
rather than what is unique,because I think those point to
some fundamental flaws in ourhealthcare system and those are
(06:19):
all opportunities forintervention.
Those are all opportunities tomake things better for people.
Opportunities for intervention,those are all opportunities to
make things better for people.
And so, talking with my firstaim of my K was understanding
barriers and facilitators tosexual orientation and gender
identity, or SOGI, datacollection in a primary care
(06:40):
setting and, at the time, thepractice that I was studying,
had not yet implemented that.
So it was, you know, kind ofperceived, and it was just so
interesting to me how manypeople had never thought about
this.
And that's not their fault,it's not what they're trained to
do.
(07:02):
And I think increasingly we askpeople to do things without any
training or without anyintroduction.
And we wouldn't take thatapproach to, I don't know,
working on a car.
You know you wouldn't handsomeone a car and say, hey, can
(07:25):
you fix this without giving themtraining about, and they'd be
like, oh, I've never worked witha Subaru before, I've only
worked on bicycles.
Right, like you wouldn't dothat.
But we do that in healthcaresometimes.
And so it was just reallyinteresting to again talk to
people and kind of hear themthink through this for the first
(07:48):
time and articulate,intentionally or not, some of
the big gaps in the structure ofhealthcare, something like
gender neutral bathrooms, justnot having that, and getting
people to think about what itmeans for a structure, for an
(08:10):
organization, for a facility tobe cis, normative or
heteronormative.
And so that was the beginningof my K, and then I've just, you
know, been kind of chuggingalong and trying to figure out
what the next steps are.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
And so way back I mean it feels like eons ago, but
way back in the fall of 2024,as you were considering joining
K to R Essentials what was goingon for you in that period?
Like, what was it that made youthink like this is something
(08:49):
that I want to do, this issomething that might help me?
Like, what were you strugglingwith?
Speaker 2 (08:55):
Yeah.
So one big factor was that inNovember of 2023, we welcomed
twins into my family, and atthat time we had a six-year-old,
and having twins really kind ofsmashed the thinking about what
was next, and I never sawmyself as somebody writing R01s
(09:41):
and leading the program, but itwas like I have to give this a
try, because the other option isto be a full-time collaborator,
and that has its own.
You know challenges, as youknow, and having infants, having
these two small children,creates a lot of challenges in
(10:06):
terms of work-life balance oreven just doing them, not
balancing them, not gettingeverything right.
So in every other area of mylife, I think I'm pretty good at
lining up the supports I need.
(10:27):
So I am not interested in taxesor finances or any of that.
Sure, could I listen to acouple of podcasts or read some
books and do the.
You know how to do research andlearn some things, yeah, but
that's not a good use of my timeand I have zero interest, and
so I hire someone to, you know,to manage that.
(10:48):
I entrust another professionaland I had been following you for
a while.
I first heard about you actuallyat a Birch meeting at my
institution through the Edge forScholars program and it was
like, well, here is a supportsystem, here is an opportunity
(11:09):
to get some guidance.
And I really struggled in gradschool because I didn't
understand the hidden curriculum, I didn't understand how to get
myself those supports.
And so, rather than saying, ohokay, well, it's too late and
I'm at this point and now I needto figure it out on my own.
(11:30):
In the same way, I try and havebackup babysitters and if my
primary childcare falls through,it was like why don't I give
myself some supports, why Idon't have to struggle through
this?
You don't get more money if youstruggle and do it by yourself
and you're probably less likelyto be successful.
(11:51):
And so it just seemed like theright opportunity at the right
time, and really a gift that Icould give myself, to say I
deserve this support, I deservethis type of mentorship and
structure to give myself abetter chance at success in this
career path.
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, and I want to just reflect something back to
you that I'm hearing.
Aside from the more sort ofconcrete elements of support
that you're talking about, thestory that you've told to me
sounds a little bit like youwere really finally ready to
just go all in on yourself as aPI.
(12:33):
Like it's not.
You were at this point whereyou had to decide is this
something that I want to do?
And what does that look likefor me?
You know, not just with youngchildren in the mix, but just
like what do I want myprofessional life to look like?
Do I want to be, you know, likea jack of all trades, jill of
(12:54):
all trades, collaborator, or doI want to really be leading
projects?
And how can I make that workfor me?
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Yeah, absolutely, make that work for me.
Yeah, absolutely.
I think also I didn't have aquote, unquote traditional
career path in terms of, youknow, timing and what I thought
I was training to be when I wentto grad school and what I ended
up doing, and so I thinkthere's always been some level
(13:24):
of shame or kind of likediminishment of myself that
because I was on a differenttimeline, and rather than saying
it kind of doesn't matter how Iended up here or when I'm
ending up here, this is where Iam now and again, I like deserve
(13:45):
to give myself the best shot.
I don't have to apologize, youknow, probably mostly to myself,
but for what it took to gethere.
This is where I am and this isan opportunity that I have now
to support me where I am.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
Exactly, Exactly.
And so what?
What were you hoping that thatsupport would look like?
Like, what were you, what wereyou hoping the support would
look like and what were youhoping to achieve having that
support?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I don't know.
I don't know that I had anyhope or expectations about what
I thought it would look like.
Um, you know, I had seen yourother material and liked it and
found it useful and wise andinformative.
Um, and I think it was more ofI'm going to put myself in this
(14:42):
structured environment and seewhat it has to offer.
Yeah, I don't know that I had alot of expectations, but I was
like, well, it's called K to Rand that's what I'm doing, so
let's do it.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
I find it so interesting.
I mean, there are plenty ofpeople who come into K to R
Essentials with very specificobjectives about what they want
to accomplish inside the program, and I love hearing the other
side of it, where you're like Ijust needed a container to
figure out what I needed, and Ilove that, because I am the
exact same way in the containersthat I'm in.
(15:21):
I'm like well, I think this isgoing to help me.
I'm not exactly sure how, but Ifeel committed to just
immersing myself in thisexperience and seeing what
emerges for me, and I know thatwhatever emerges is going to be
useful.
Yeah, exactly, that's great.
That's great.
Can you think of a moment or aninsight from the program that
(15:46):
really changed things for you?
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Yeah, I think that.
So a couple of things.
So I think, off the bat, it wasin one of the kind of very
early sessions.
You know you ask us to justtrust the process and you know
you talk a lot about many of thetraits and characteristics and
(16:14):
behaviors that got us to wherewe are no longer serve us.
You know, I think people thatuh end up in PhD school and I'm
sure for MDs as well uh tend tobe type A, um, a little rigid Um
(16:34):
, and it's funny to see thesecharacteristics reflected back
to me and our children Um, rulefollowers, you know, want a
guidebook, want a set ofinstructions and, ironically,
choose this field where thatdoesn't exist.
Right, there's so muchuncertainty, there's most of the
(16:57):
feedback is negative, and soyou asked us to just trust the
process and that, even if wedidn't think it was going to
work or we didn't think it was agood fit for us, and I think
there's also this egotism and Idon't mean that in a negative
way I think there's, um, I thinkit's actually quite
(17:18):
self-sabotaging where we go,well, that's not going to work
for me, or I'm not like otherpeople, or um, you know, and I
heard someone talking once abouta therapist suggesting positive
affirmations and they're like,well, that's ridiculous.
And they're like, okay, well,how are the negative voices
going?
And it's like touche.
And so, you know, you were like, just trust the process and it
(17:43):
felt not silly I don't even knowwhat the right word is, which
is funny because I have a lot ofwords but doing, like the time,
edit, or doing, you know, likecharacterizing what's a rock and
what's sand and what's water,and going through and doing
those exercises.
(18:04):
You know there was a.
I had a reluctance to do themand it was like, well, what is
that?
What's that about?
And rather than taking theemotional space to figure that
out, like, just do it, just dothe exercise, like Sarah told
you to do it, just do it andfinding it really useful.
You know, I know we've talkedbefore.
(18:26):
We have a friend in common andI was talking to her about the
program, was going, and I wassaying, you know we had our
coaching call and Sarah said,you know, keep your eyes on your
own paper.
And I was like, well, first ofall, how dare you?
You know, there is this again,this like comparing ourself,
(18:46):
right.
And so I'm on a coaching callwith these brilliant women and
you know this person is solvingcaregiver burnout and
Alzheimer's right or whatever itis, and I'm like holy moly, you
know I'm just doing this littlething.
And it's like, don't do that,worry about yourself.
Like this isn't a competitionand I think one of the
(19:09):
challenges again in this fieldis there's always someone doing
better than you.
Right, there's always someonewho got their first R when they
were 24 years old or you know,or has six R's or got this grant
on their first submission, andI don't benefit from comparing
myself to that person.
I don't benefit from comparingmyself to someone who's got 72
(19:32):
first author publications firstauthor publications.
What I benefit from is takingthe skills and the lessons that
you are teaching us and applyingthem to myself, and so I feel
like those two things early onthat were like trust the process
and like keep your eyes on yourown paper, like have.
I feel like they've humbled mein a good way and I don't think
(19:56):
of myself as someone with like abig ego.
I think is, you know, ourbrains are our greatest asset
(20:22):
and also our worst enemy, right?
Speaker 1 (20:24):
And so a lot of what we talk about, especially in the
early part of the program, isjust, yeah, staying focused eyes
on your own paper, just makesure that you are building trust
and compassion for yourself andnot using that comparison
against yourself, right?
And the other piece of that isto your point about you know,
(20:48):
actually just trusting theprocess and doing the exercises.
It's really easy to look atbecause we're academics, because
we're so bright and we pickthings up really quickly.
We can look at something andlike game out the next steps
without actually doing the work.
And so we understand somethingtheoretically and we're like, oh
(21:09):
yeah, I got it, Like no problem, I got that.
But the actual doing of it, theimplementing of it, teaches you
so much that you could neveranticipate just by understanding
the theory behind it.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
And that's really what exactly.
Yeah, Like reading a book aboutriding a bike versus getting on
a bike.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
Exactly yeah exactly, and that's the piece around
really just committing to theprocess and trusting it and just
doing it and seeing what youlearn, just really engaging that
curiosity.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Yeah, and I think what you said, like we tend to
be these analytical, or we arethese analytical people and
again, we can get a little bitcocky without realizing it, or
get a little bit dismissive andbe like oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I
(22:00):
get it, without giving ourselvesthe experience and you know,
thinking that we know all theanswers, or like we know what
the outcome is and right, inresearch, you always have to
leave room to be wrong, you haveto be falsifiable or it's not a
(22:23):
question.
You've decided a priori whatthe answer is and we do that to
ourselves in a way we wouldn'tdo that to our work.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, we're always arguing for our own limitations,
and I think that's the egopiece that you're talking about.
It's sort of using our ego andour exceptionalism against
ourselves instead of forourselves, by saying this will
never work for me.
These are all the reasons thatI am theorizing that this is not
going to work out and so I'mjust going to go all in on that
(22:54):
instead of actually tryingsomething and learning from it
and, you know, proving myselfwrong.
Yeah, so, amy, this is sort ofa similar question to the last
one, but I wonder if the answeris a little bit different.
Is there something that youlearned in the program that you
(23:16):
didn't realize that you neededto learn?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
Yes, definitely.
I think two things that arereally concrete examples are the
periodization, right, so Aweeks and B weeks, and I tend to
be very all or nothing.
And so you know if I'm teachingand I have a class on Thursdays
(23:48):
I had that, you know, thissemester while I was in your
course so much of the prep andthen the teaching itself, and
everything is a high intensityactivity, even if it doesn't
take that many hours.
And so, rather than not gettingany writing done and beating
(24:09):
myself up for it, if I canacknowledge, like, okay, you
know, the second half of thisweek is going to be about
teaching, and so just don't planto get deep thinking work done,
then you're going to be moresuccessful.
I like setting myself up forsuccess.
(24:31):
And then I think the other thingis like scheduling out tasks,
because I have a lot of thislike amorphous free time and oh,
also, don't use your inbox as ato-do list, oops, and so right,
I would be like go into the daywith no plan and be like or my
(24:52):
plan is I'm going to work onthis paper today, which is, you
know, as ridiculous as it soundsand so I think saying, okay,
here's a perfect example, likethis week.
We have a disruption in childcare and we've got backup care.
(25:12):
We've got stuff worked out, butit's a change from our normal
schedule.
We've got stuff worked out, butit's a change from our normal
schedule.
And so my mental load isdifferent this week and then I'm
remembering different things Ihave to do, pick up and drop off
at different times, and justand rather than going okay, well
, this week is shot, I'm notgoing to get anything done, I
can go.
(25:32):
Okay, maybe this isn't a greatweek for some deep thinking work
.
What are some tasks that I canget done?
What are those?
What's the sand that I owe toother people?
That I can check things off alist and get that work done this
week.
And then, if I make you know,instead of saying I'm going to
(25:56):
wrap up this paper, what I'mgoing to do is I'm going to
allot an hour to reviewco-authors' comments, like
something really specific.
But that isn't the deepthinking work on my part.
That is going to have to waituntil next week.
But that doesn't mean I can'tget anything done this week, but
I can work with my ownlimitations or changes and the
(26:18):
amount of effort that I have togive and I can move things
forward.
Yeah, yeah, Well.
Speaker 1 (26:26):
So I tend to characterize that and tell me
what you think about that.
I characterize it as sort ofmitigating that tendency towards
perfectionism, Like if I can'tdo it perfectly, I'm not going
to do it at all, so like theregoes the entire week.
But what I'm hearing you say isthat by sort of mitigating that
tendency towards perfectionism,you are able to just maintain
(26:46):
momentum by recognizing theinherent limitations that you
have around you in anyparticular week or or day.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
Yeah, and I think some of the tools that you've
given us, like allow me to namethat and like just even the
concept of A weeks and B weeks,right, or, and I don't even know
(27:17):
that I have emotional, physicalenergy you have to give to
those tasks and doing theprogress and not the perfection,
because the other thing is,with the perfectionism, then I
wait until the last minute, I dosomething and then I kick
myself for wasting all of thistime.
If I had started this threeweeks ago, this is how much
(27:38):
better it would have been.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
So it's just a lose-lose situation that I
previously would have set myselfup for, but it's really about
recognizing that yourcircumstances are going to look
different and if they are evensomewhat predictable, you can
anticipate what your capacity isand account for that as you are
(28:04):
planning.
So it's a way of beingintentional, and it's also a way
of being kind to yourself byrecognizing things are not
constant.
We've got stuff coming at usall the time, and if we're able
to predict what thosecircumstances look like, even in
very broad strokes, we knowwhat type of energy and focus we
can commit towards thatparticular circumstance.
(28:27):
Yeah, exactly.
So I don't want to gloss overthe fact, amy, that you
participated in a cohort thatbegan in January of 2025.
And so I wonder how being partof this cohort, being part of
(28:49):
this community during what isinarguably an extremely
stressful period really anexistential crisis for higher
education and biomedicalresearch how that sort of shaped
your experience in the program,or how the program shaped your
(29:10):
experience?
Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, I am so grateful that I am in this
program at this time, becausethe shared experience of being
with all of these otherbrilliant women who rely mostly
on NIH funding to do theircareers, to do the stuff that
(29:40):
they have trained for and thatthey have put years, years into
preparing and building I thinkcan't be understated.
I think there are a lot ofsimilarities to when COVID hit,
and I have an online group ofacademic mamas with babies born
(30:02):
in 2017.
Shout out to my 2017 AMs andthat group during COVID was so
helpful too, because you knowthese natural disasters.
Because you know these naturaldisasters this isn't a natural
disaster, but these externalevents often kind of rip the
(30:24):
roof't again.
I can't even explain it right.
There's this having to dealwith these existential threats
(30:55):
to your way of life and stillhave to go through the day and
send emails and pay your waterbill and pack lunches, and so
being with this group and havingyour guidance and your
leadership has been so helpfulhelpful as a touchstone, and you
(31:17):
know so.
We did the work in January onour North Stars.
Then we got to February andthings really started to fall
off the track.
But having that North Star andsaying, okay, all of this
craziness is happening, that wehave little to no control over
(31:38):
what is your professionalidentity and mission, and having
that to go back to and thensaying, okay, here are all the
circumstances that are beyond mycontrol, what are the things
that I can control?
What are the things that I cancontrol and what can I do for
myself personally,professionally, that is in line
(32:01):
with this North Star is sogrounding and I am deeply,
deeply grateful for the programand for this cohort of women and
for you, because the only waythrough this is in community,
(32:26):
whatever that means to people.
But this is a really importantcommunity to me has been, as you
(32:49):
said, really, really grounding.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
That has been.
My observation in the cohort isthat, on the one hand, it gave
a bit of space for people to airtheir anxieties, but it also, I
think, grounded people in whothey are and why they're here.
And I think when you're facingthat level of uncertainty and
lack of control, that's that'sas you said the one thing you
(33:12):
can always come back to is isyour professional identity and
your and your purpose.
Yeah so, amy, what advice wouldyou have for somebody who's
considering joining K to REssentials about how to get the
most out of the program?
What would you advise?
Speaker 2 (33:33):
Yeah, so the one would be to do it and to show up
for yourself and to do the workself and to do the work.
And I, you know, in my calendartoday, because you were letting
us repeat the course, which isamazing I have blocked off like
(33:55):
K to R time.
And so you know, it's like ifyou're in physical therapy for
an injury, right, like you haveto do the exercises at home and
you're only hurting yourself ifyou don't do it.
And so for saying that, like,even if it's hard, even if it's,
um, you know, a little bitpainful sometimes, to go through
(34:16):
and do a time audit and bereally honest with how much time
you spend on your phone, ifyou're me, um, and to quantify
that that it is usefulinformation and that you are
worth investing the time, likeof all the time that you have
spent training and writing anddoing coursework and whatever
(34:41):
else you needed to get yourdegree and to establish yourself
as a professional, why wouldn'tyou carve out this small amount
of time relative to everything,it may feel big in the moment,
but to really commit and giveyourself this like that it is a
gift to you and that you, youdon't need to earn it, but like,
(35:05):
by God, have you earned it?
Um, I think that is the is thebiggest thing is to say, like
you know, if you were going totake the GREs or the MCATs or
whatever, you would block offthe time to study because that
standardized test isn't abouthow smart you are, it's about
(35:28):
knowing how to take the test,and so so much of this is the
same thing skill building forwhat you need for this K to R
transition.
And so block off the time to donot the Kaplan, but the Sarah
Dobson work to prepare yourselffor that.
(35:49):
Yeah, I just I really see itlike as a gift to yourself and
that you deserve it.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Is there anything else that you want to add before
we wrap up today?
Speaker 2 (36:04):
No, no, and then I will continue to say things like
I don't want to interrupt you.
Yeah, I think the one thing islike I think sometimes people
can be really skeptical aboutthe kind of not that what you do
is alt-ac or something you know, but is, you know, academia
(36:26):
adjacent and can be kind ofdisparaging, and I think that
maybe in an ideal world therewould be not your business world
, obviously, but there would beless of a demand for these types
of services.
But I think, reallyacknowledging that these are the
things that we are not taughtand we are not trained for.
(36:50):
So you know, like the lastmodule is really about project
management.
Well, and all of it is right,the rocks and the sand and the
water and everything, andsorting these out and blocking
things off, and all of thesetools are how to project manage
yourself, for grant writing andother things and that we are not
(37:14):
taught those tools.
And I think again, there's thisnotion that, like academia and
research are these snowflakesthat you just need a brilliant
brain to do and if you're notsuccessful it's because you, the
individual, are not brilliant,rather than acknowledging that,
(37:36):
like everything else, it is abusiness, it is an industry, it
is a field and that there arethings that we can do to enhance
our opportunities for success,and so I really think that you
spelling that out and providingthose supports is just so
(38:01):
invaluable, because we need toacknowledge that those don't.
Those don't exist.
You know, I think that I ambrilliant at project managing my
household, and so why wouldn'tI take that approach to my work?
And I do it for other people'steams.
(38:21):
I'm great at doing it for otherpeople's teams, and I think
taking this, doing this program,has given me the tools, but
also the insight, to do it formyself.
Speaker 1 (38:38):
Yeah, thank you for saying that, and I mean I say
something similar in theinvitation to the graduates of
the program to come on to thepodcast.
Right, like we want tonormalize getting support for
the areas of our careers that wehaven't been taught how to
(38:58):
optimize, and there is a certainamount of shame in academic
spaces around first of alladmitting you need help at all
and then actually seeking it outright and so being able to
normalize it in this way byspeaking to people who have
recognized how important it is,I think it's so valuable for
(39:20):
everybody to hear that it's okayto seek help for things that
you want to improve or optimizein your own career, and so thank
you for being here today andsharing your experience and your
wisdom and the amazing insightsand wins that you had in the
(39:45):
program during an incrediblydifficult period.
Truly.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
And thank you, you've been amazing.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Wow, you have been an absolute delight to have in the
program and it has beenwonderful to see you and catch
up, and I look forward to more.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Thanks so much, sarah .
Speaker 1 (40:11):
Thanks for listening to this episode of Significant
Impact from K Award to yourfirst big R1.
If you want to dig deeper intowhat we learned today and move a
significant step closer to asmooth K to R transition, visit
sarahdobsonco slash pod andcheck out all the free stuff we
have to help you do just that.
Don't forget to subscribe tothe show to make sure you hear
(40:32):
new episodes as soon as they'rereleased.
And if today's episode made youthink of a colleague or a
friend, please tell them aboutit.
Tune in next time, and thanksagain for listening.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy And Charlamagne Tha God!
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.