August 18, 2025 • 9 mins
Ambition vs. Purpose: What Really Drives You?
We celebrate ambition, but without purpose, it’s just motion without meaning. In this episode, I share stories from corporate America that reveal how ego and status-chasing can waste time, fuel politics, and drain creativity.
Discover how shifting from ambition to purpose builds resilience, fuels joy, and frees you from the fear of losing what you’ve gained.
Listen now and start pursuing what truly matters.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
What in life deserves our time and attention and what
things don't.
I hope that as we consider thatquestion, along with other
topics on this show that we canall learn to live our lives just
a little more intentionally.
This is Seth Roberts.
Thanks for joining me onSkipping Stones.
(00:26):
It seems like there's someamount of value we assign to
having the quality of beingambitious, at least in the
United States.
People advertise that they areambitious on resumes and
profiles and public forums.
So apparently being ambitiousis a good thing.
But why?
People say they want to besuccessful because they are
(00:54):
ambitious.
But what does that even mean?
Why would someone want successfor no other reason than being
successful?
Without a purpose?
Ambition seems to me more likelyto represent a craving for
status or insecurity in who youare.
Otherwise, why would we care somuch to be the best of the best
or the most successful?
You could argue that they wantto test themselves.
But if that's the case, is itreally ambition?
(01:16):
Ambition is almost alwaysassociated with the outcome.
I want to be the best, I wantto be rich, I want to be
successful.
Never have I ever heard itassociated with a love of the
process to get there.
I believe there is no inherentvalue in being ambitious.
Being the best of the bestgenerally serves no one, unless
(01:39):
perhaps being the best of thebest means you are able to offer
something unique to the worldthat no one else is able to
match.
Being the best of the beststockbroker might benefit you
and your clients, but it doesn'treally offer the world that
much.
There are some places whereambition serves the world, but
so many more where it doesn't.
(01:59):
If you remove the best footballplayer or basketball player
from the game, nothing wouldreally happen.
Some other star athlete wouldbecome the new best and our
attention would shift to them.
As athletes retire, we get towatch this in real time.
Not to say that's not fun towatch the greatest of all time
play a game, but it doesn'tnecessarily bring that much
(02:22):
value to the world.
But it doesn't necessarilybring that much value to the
world.
Only in certain arenas doesbeing the best seem to make any
positive impact at all, andoften the people in those places
are not primarily driven byambition.
Science, for example, ispossibly the best example.
If your discoveries happen tocure cancer, that matters.
(02:42):
The best of the best in manyother arenas have far less of an
impact.
When someone now tells me thatthey are ambitious, the first
thought that runs through myhead is for what purpose?
I think employers sometimeslike to hear that a person is
ambitious if only because itimplies they might be able to
(03:03):
take advantage of it to get morework out of the same person for
the same price as a lessambitious person.
But employers are not out therelooking for people they can
help along in their career.
They're looking for people thatcan help them out, and if they
can take advantage of ambitionthen that's all the better.
Once upon a time I describedmyself as ambitious and honestly
(03:24):
, I still do describe myselfthat way sometimes.
The difference today is thatit's now driven by purpose.
When I was younger, the sourceof my ambition came primarily
from a desire to elevate myselfabove others.
It's embarrassing to me when Ithink of how much effort I
expended for nothing more thanthe desire to be better than
(03:45):
other people.
It feels shallow because it is.
I think sometimes we foolourselves into thinking that the
world needs us to make lots ofmoney because we think somehow
us having lots of money willmake the world better for
everyone else, and I don'tbegrudge anyone wanting to make
lots of money.
Money makes everything morecomfortable, but more
(04:10):
specifically, I'm talking aboutthe person that relies on that
money to validate theirexistence and ties their value
to it.
There are people that spendtheir whole lives trying to
climb the ladders of power andinfluence.
So often they will do whateverit takes in order to reach the
next level, all while thinkingthat the means justify the end
and that somehow, when they getto the top, they will have the
(04:31):
capacity to make everythingbetter for everyone.
But it's precisely thatattitude that begins to permeate
organizations and bogs themdown in petty power grabs and an
emphasis on appearance overperformance.
I used to work in a largeorganization and I went into it
thinking that executives werealways the best and the
(04:52):
brightest, but along the way Ifound myself being dumbfounded
at the efforts made to hide badnews from the boss and to shift
blame.
The amount of wasted time andmoney spent to satisfy egos and
to avoid blame in largeorganizations is astounding.
I once worked on a plan for therollout of stores in a
(05:14):
particular metro.
When we presented our strategyto the executive that ran our
division, he tore us to piecesand he made us make a whole
bunch of changes, and of coursethat was his right to do, and
maybe he knew something wedidn't know.
Well, we made the changes andcame back to him with what he
wanted.
He then proceeded to tear intothe revamp and instructed us to
(05:39):
make changes that would havebrought us almost exactly in
line with the first plan that wepresented.
But of course, we couldn'tpoint this out without risking
our employment or our futureopportunities.
So often our ambition keeps usfrom telling people what they
need to know, and in some casesI completely understand that it
may not be ambition but ratherself-preservation that keeps us
(06:01):
from calling out our bosses.
But it is a pity what so manyof us will find ourselves doing
for the sake of ambition.
What does sitting on top of theworld do for us?
I think primarily it strokesour egos and keeps our insecure
fears at bay.
I hope that instead of allowingambition to be our guiding star
(06:21):
, we can fall in love with thepursuit of excellence instead.
There is a joy to be found inmastery of certain things, but
there is no joy to be found insitting on top of the world
unless there is a real purposethat drives that.
The attainment of our ambitiousdesires rewards us with
temporary happiness that isbound to fade.
It also rewards us with theincredible fear of loss.
(06:44):
If the acquisition of thoseambitions was the very purpose
in your pursuit of those things,then it would stand to reason
that the loss of those thingswould shake you to your core,
unlike the purpose-driven person.
A purpose-driven person is partof an ongoing dance.
Regardless of the wins or thelosses, the purpose stays the
(07:07):
same, so it's not quite sodependent on success to drive it
forward.
When you're motivated bypurpose over ambition, your
sense of success comes from yourpersistence in the pursuit of
that purpose and is far lessdependent on success.
This is why a purpose-drivenperson will strive the hardest
and endure the longest Ambition.
(07:31):
Without a purpose driving, itis like running on a hamster
wheel.
You may accomplish some thingsin life, but they're not going
to satisfy the source of yourambition.
If they did, your ambitionwould end.
Too many of us act withoutknowing why.
We are striving for something,but we do not know what.
Maybe it really is as simple asa desire to be better than
(07:51):
everyone else.
But that is not a winnablebattle.
And hiding behind the desire tobe better than is a place of
feeling less than when anambitious person finds a purpose
they care about, their capacityincreases dramatically because
the drive comes from someplacehigher than simply seeking to
(08:14):
fill our voids.
The ambitious people of theworld are the fools that the
smart people prey on.
They have no guiding star, sothey can be manipulated to
channel that ambitious energyinto the meaningless pursuits of
the people smart enough tostring them along by teasing
them with hopes and dreams.
Life gets better when thatambition gets turned into
(08:35):
passion, once we find purpose inour pursuits.
This is Skipping Stones.
You can find this podcastanywhere you choose to listen to
podcasts.
For more information about me,feel free to visit
skippingstonessrcom and if youenjoyed the show, please like or
subscribe.
(08:55):
If there is a topic you wouldlike me to speak on, please feel
free to email me at info atskippingstonessrcom.
New episodes will be releasedweekly, every Monday.
What in life deserves our time and attention and what
things don't.
I hope that as we consider thatquestion, along with other
topics on this show that we canall learn to live our lives just
a little more intentionally.
This is Seth Roberts.
Thanks for joining me onSkipping Stones.
(00:26):
It seems like there's someamount of value we assign to
having the quality of beingambitious, at least in the
United States.
People advertise that they areambitious on resumes and
profiles and public forums.
So apparently being ambitiousis a good thing.
But why?
People say they want to besuccessful because they are
(00:54):
ambitious.
But what does that even mean?
Why would someone want successfor no other reason than being
successful?
Without a purpose?
Ambition seems to me more likelyto represent a craving for
status or insecurity in who youare.
Otherwise, why would we care somuch to be the best of the best
or the most successful?
You could argue that they wantto test themselves.
But if that's the case, is itreally ambition?
(01:16):
Ambition is almost alwaysassociated with the outcome.
I want to be the best, I wantto be rich, I want to be
successful.
Never have I ever heard itassociated with a love of the
process to get there.
I believe there is no inherentvalue in being ambitious.
Being the best of the bestgenerally serves no one, unless
(01:39):
perhaps being the best of thebest means you are able to offer
something unique to the worldthat no one else is able to
match.
Being the best of the beststockbroker might benefit you
and your clients, but it doesn'treally offer the world that
much.
There are some places whereambition serves the world, but
so many more where it doesn't.
(01:59):
If you remove the best footballplayer or basketball player
from the game, nothing wouldreally happen.
Some other star athlete wouldbecome the new best and our
attention would shift to them.
As athletes retire, we get towatch this in real time.
Not to say that's not fun towatch the greatest of all time
play a game, but it doesn'tnecessarily bring that much
(02:22):
value to the world.
But it doesn't necessarilybring that much value to the
world.
Only in certain arenas doesbeing the best seem to make any
positive impact at all, andoften the people in those places
are not primarily driven byambition.
Science, for example, ispossibly the best example.
If your discoveries happen tocure cancer, that matters.
(02:42):
The best of the best in manyother arenas have far less of an
impact.
When someone now tells me thatthey are ambitious, the first
thought that runs through myhead is for what purpose?
I think employers sometimeslike to hear that a person is
ambitious if only because itimplies they might be able to
(03:03):
take advantage of it to get morework out of the same person for
the same price as a lessambitious person.
But employers are not out therelooking for people they can
help along in their career.
They're looking for people thatcan help them out, and if they
can take advantage of ambitionthen that's all the better.
Once upon a time I describedmyself as ambitious and honestly
(03:24):
, I still do describe myselfthat way sometimes.
The difference today is thatit's now driven by purpose.
When I was younger, the sourceof my ambition came primarily
from a desire to elevate myselfabove others.
It's embarrassing to me when Ithink of how much effort I
expended for nothing more thanthe desire to be better than
(03:45):
other people.
It feels shallow because it is.
I think sometimes we foolourselves into thinking that the
world needs us to make lots ofmoney because we think somehow
us having lots of money willmake the world better for
everyone else, and I don'tbegrudge anyone wanting to make
lots of money.
Money makes everything morecomfortable, but more
(04:10):
specifically, I'm talking aboutthe person that relies on that
money to validate theirexistence and ties their value
to it.
There are people that spendtheir whole lives trying to
climb the ladders of power andinfluence.
So often they will do whateverit takes in order to reach the
next level, all while thinkingthat the means justify the end
and that somehow, when they getto the top, they will have the
(04:31):
capacity to make everythingbetter for everyone.
But it's precisely thatattitude that begins to permeate
organizations and bogs themdown in petty power grabs and an
emphasis on appearance overperformance.
I used to work in a largeorganization and I went into it
thinking that executives werealways the best and the
(04:52):
brightest, but along the way Ifound myself being dumbfounded
at the efforts made to hide badnews from the boss and to shift
blame.
The amount of wasted time andmoney spent to satisfy egos and
to avoid blame in largeorganizations is astounding.
I once worked on a plan for therollout of stores in a
(05:14):
particular metro.
When we presented our strategyto the executive that ran our
division, he tore us to piecesand he made us make a whole
bunch of changes, and of coursethat was his right to do, and
maybe he knew something wedidn't know.
Well, we made the changes andcame back to him with what he
wanted.
He then proceeded to tear intothe revamp and instructed us to
(05:39):
make changes that would havebrought us almost exactly in
line with the first plan that wepresented.
But of course, we couldn'tpoint this out without risking
our employment or our futureopportunities.
So often our ambition keeps usfrom telling people what they
need to know, and in some casesI completely understand that it
may not be ambition but ratherself-preservation that keeps us
(06:01):
from calling out our bosses.
But it is a pity what so manyof us will find ourselves doing
for the sake of ambition.
What does sitting on top of theworld do for us?
I think primarily it strokesour egos and keeps our insecure
fears at bay.
I hope that instead of allowingambition to be our guiding star
(06:21):
, we can fall in love with thepursuit of excellence instead.
There is a joy to be found inmastery of certain things, but
there is no joy to be found insitting on top of the world
unless there is a real purposethat drives that.
The attainment of our ambitiousdesires rewards us with
temporary happiness that isbound to fade.
It also rewards us with theincredible fear of loss.
(06:44):
If the acquisition of thoseambitions was the very purpose
in your pursuit of those things,then it would stand to reason
that the loss of those thingswould shake you to your core,
unlike the purpose-driven person.
A purpose-driven person is partof an ongoing dance.
Regardless of the wins or thelosses, the purpose stays the
(07:07):
same, so it's not quite sodependent on success to drive it
forward.
When you're motivated bypurpose over ambition, your
sense of success comes from yourpersistence in the pursuit of
that purpose and is far lessdependent on success.
This is why a purpose-drivenperson will strive the hardest
and endure the longest Ambition.
(07:31):
Without a purpose driving, itis like running on a hamster
wheel.
You may accomplish some thingsin life, but they're not going
to satisfy the source of yourambition.
If they did, your ambitionwould end.
Too many of us act withoutknowing why.
We are striving for something,but we do not know what.
Maybe it really is as simple asa desire to be better than
(07:51):
everyone else.
But that is not a winnablebattle.
And hiding behind the desire tobe better than is a place of
feeling less than when anambitious person finds a purpose
they care about, their capacityincreases dramatically because
the drive comes from someplacehigher than simply seeking to
(08:14):
fill our voids.
The ambitious people of theworld are the fools that the
smart people prey on.
They have no guiding star, sothey can be manipulated to
channel that ambitious energyinto the meaningless pursuits of
the people smart enough tostring them along by teasing
them with hopes and dreams.
Life gets better when thatambition gets turned into
(08:35):
passion, once we find purpose inour pursuits.
This is Skipping Stones.
You can find this podcastanywhere you choose to listen to
podcasts.
For more information about me,feel free to visit
skippingstonessrcom and if youenjoyed the show, please like or
subscribe.
(08:55):
If there is a topic you wouldlike me to speak on, please feel
free to email me at info atskippingstonessrcom.
New episodes will be releasedweekly, every Monday.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!