March 12, 2024 • 57 mins
NEW: This episode we recorded in both audio AND video, so if you'd like to watch a video version of it with Adam and Scot's faces, check out:
https://youtu.be/K-oM6RMAzII
When I tied the knot, I wasn't handed a magical manual for a blissful marriage—just a state-issued pamphlet as thin as my patience with bureaucracy. Let's tear that pamphlet apart as we navigate the precarious, but often rewarding, landscapes of marriage and family dynamics. With a mix of humor and seriousness, Scott and I dissect the inadequacies of one-size-fits-all solutions and propose a more personalized support system for newlyweds. We don’t shy away from the thorny subjects, like the correlation between religiosity and divorce rates, and whether faith-based premarital counseling is the glue for marital longevity or simply societal pressure in disguise.
Have you ever wondered if the controversial speech of public figures can do more than just ruffle feathers? Can it actually affect our collective mental health? We break down the balance between free speech and protecting the public's mental psyche, using contemporary examples to stir the pot. And, inspired by Andrew Yang's innovative policy ideas, we examine the prospect of free, secular marital counseling networks. But that's not all—financial planning and division of labor also make the cut as we share methods for couples to manage their resources cooperatively.
The concept of 'moments' might just be the secret ingredient for sustaining intimacy in a marriage. From daily check-ins to monthly surprises, we suggest a framework for building a deeper connection with your significant other. We then wade into the turbulent waters of infidelity, considering how psychologists and married individuals perceive adultery differently. Scott and I don't hold back as we discuss the complexities of emotional co-regulation, attachment theory, and even propose the idea of a secular, free marital counseling network in California. Tune in for an episode that's like a heart-to-heart with an old friend—honest, sometimes raw, but always with your best interests at heart.
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Comments? Feedback? Questions? Solutions? Message us! We will do a mailbag episode.
Email: solutionsfromthemultiverse@gmail.com
Adam: @ajbraus - braus@hey.com
Scot: @scotmaupin
adambraus.com (Link to Adam's projects and books)
The Perfect Show (Scot's solo podcast)
The Numey (inflation-free currency)
Thanks to Jonah Burns for the SFM music.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Well, I told you, because we're on zoom right now
I told you I had some surprisesin store, because you gave me a
little bit of heads up and Iwoke up early.
So how about this?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
How about this?
Oh, now your head is a sideview and a forward view.
I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
What am I looking at?
Why would you have two?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Wait, that means you must have two cameras.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Wait, how about this?
Oh, hello what.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh hello.
So you just why have you Hi?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Now there's a sky camera of me.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Okay, are you about to say hello and another one's
going to pop up?
What about this?
What is that?
What's?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
going on here, what?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
is that?
Oh, is that your?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
screen.
It's a screen.
It's a YouTube screen.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Whoa, so is this for like streaming?
Can you stream all this Well?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I just got a little bit into the OBS software and I
was like we could watch stufftechnically and react to it and
record and do a video typestreaming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I likethat, but no part of me is just
being silly and I think it'spretty funny and I will.
That one needs to go away.
(01:12):
But I like these two.
I could always look somethingup and it's like right here on
the screen.
I just looked up cool visualsand that's what came up, nice,
and I was like we could do stuffthis way and it ups the
production value.
This doesn't have to be in thepot at all, I'm just saying
that's cool.
(01:32):
This is essentially my catcamera, so if my cats come and
do something cute, I can show ithappening.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh my God, and it's just because I saw it real tight
Like a stick, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I needed to update my webcam game, so I have my old
ones in play, so anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's the exciting thing.
Is this distracting?
Is this a little distracting?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
No, no, it's not distracting at all.
I like to be able to see everycontour of your skin on your
nose.
Keeps me focused.
It's like a replacement forcoffee.
All right, I'll take it away.
Well, hey everyone.
(02:21):
Hello, my name is Adam Brown.
My name is Scott Moppen.
This is solutions from themultiverse.
Oh, are we going to do thewhole podcast synced up?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, Okay start now.
Today.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Every two days.
Fire route Didn't work.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Can I do a shout out here at the top of the show, of
course, before we get into your,before we get into your deal
today?
Sure, because we got actuallyan email to our email address.
This is a good time as any toplug that.
We have an email addresssolutions from the multiverse at
gmailcom and we got an emailfrom Steven Guarino and he said
(03:07):
that he was responding to thesticks and leaves episode a few
a few back about sleepingoutside, your solution to
sleeping outside and said thathis dad has been doing that for
a long time and that oursolution like just hearing that
randomly and the thing thatoverlapped with his life was
like really cool and he reallyenjoyed that episode.
So I wanted to say thanks forreaching out and encourage
(03:29):
anyone else.
If you want to write us, thatwould be fantastic.
I love hearing from him.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, he said.
He said he kind of had a hardtime like having compassion and
understanding his dad's choiceto sleep in his car a lot, and
and then when we said that Iexplained that it's just
extremely delightful, like it'sextremely pleasurable, His dad
said the same thing.
His dad has the means to sleepinside if he wanted to.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And his dad decides to sleep out in his car and
you'd say, well, the car'sinside, it's like no, he leaves
the door, the windows like openand cracked or whatever, and he
just says when he wakes up, it'slike the air is in the car and
he feels like he slept.
You know, he slept, he likes itbetter, and so by hearing me
talk about this actually madehim be able to sort of kind of
forgive his dad for doing thiskind of socially unacceptable
(04:18):
thing.
And it was cool.
It was a cool email.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
It was a really cool email.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I felt like wow, yeah , yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
That was really cool.
So thank you very much, stephen, for writing in and and I'm
happy that episode hit you, hitfor you that way, so yeah, yeah,
I, yeah, we do this.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That's why we do this .
You know, new ideas Not onlycan change the world, they can
change our feelings about theworld.
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Change our feelings.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Welcome to the Lifetime Podcast Network.
Yes, oprah is here with us.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
We're going to have tears of joy, tears of sadness.
Yeah, well, that's great.
Okay, should we go straightinto the solution?
See, that would require me tohave a solution that we were
going to talk about today.
Yeah, I spent all weekpreparing a Dungeons and Dragons
campaign.
Oh no, so that is solution, ifI solution is like I don't know.
(05:15):
No, I have a list here I canlook, but yeah, I don't know
which one I'll pick, but thisDungeons and Dragons went really
well though, so I can say that,all right, I have a solution, I
have a solution.
I want to hear your solution.
Let's hear it.
Okay.
So one of the one of the kind ofone of the kind of funny things
about solutions on a businessthat we've noticed as a trend is
(05:35):
that we like approach problemsor I, sometimes my brain
approaches problems andsolutions kind of by like.
Well, let me put it this way,when you're starting a company,
this is all run up, which I knowI'm not supposed to do, but I
kind of want to give a littledisclaimer here because I think
it's interesting.
Yeah, so when you run a companyor you build a product, I can, I
can say because this is what Ido, I teach people how to do
(05:58):
this, and I've done this beforeCustomers know what's wrong with
your product, but they don'tknow how to fix it, like nine
times out of 10.
Sometimes someone will know howto fix the problem, but mostly
they're just like this sucks and, and you have to listen to them
about what sucks, but you kindof don't have to listen to them
about what they think thesolution is, because they don't
really know, because they're notexperts, right, usually,
usually I'm sure doctors feelthe same way, right, like the
(06:21):
patient knows they're sick,they're hurting, but they don't
really know the solution becausethey don't know how, like their
pancreas works or whatever,right?
So it's kind of like you haveto take take problems from one
area but then take solutionsfrom another area, and I feel
like that's a that's a good wayto think about America right now
in terms of like the right andthe left wing, like I think you
should really look at what theright wing says are like
(06:41):
problems or vice versa, like youcan kind of take problems from
one side and solutions from theother and kind of create like
this interesting, almost likeit's a combined combination of
two part of the partisan sides.
Anyways, so today we're going totalk about marriage and family
and family Okay.
(07:02):
Because, you know, the leftwing has this thing where
they're like families are just aconstruct.
People can just come together,come apart.
Everyone's just a sovereign.
You know, an individual who canlike whatever.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
But then they also say there's a huge problem with
loneliness and like there's ahuge problem with, like
political power in this countryand it's like, well, the
solution to that might be theright wing people saying like
the family is really importantand actually it's like a really
it's a solution to a lot ofproblems and so, and so I'm
going to kind of try to riff,like everyone on this podcast
(07:35):
probably knows that I'm prettyleft wing, but actually I think
this question about the familyis actually pretty important,
like building strong families.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You like what the right marriages or aspects of
that perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Aspirationally yes, aspirationally.
I don't like what they usuallycome up with for their solutions
.
Like their solutions are likeso make it illegal for people to
divorce.
Like that's insane.
Like you could be in a horriblesituation and divorce would be
like the perfect thing in somecases, so why would you do that?
But or they do things like youknow.
They want to like reducewomen's place in the world so
(08:09):
that women are like have feweroptions, and I'm like that is so
stupid.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
There's like there's conflict between men and women
in the workplace and they'relike well then, if women aren't
in the workplace, then theconflicts avoid it.
You're like, no, no, no, no,that's not solving it correctly,
that's not the direction.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So I'm going to propose that, I'm going to
propose just a simple thingthat's very concrete, because I
like that like plausible,concrete could be done and I
think it would just improvepeople.
Marriages especially not notwhole.
I'm not going to go wholefamilies, I don't even have
family.
I just have a married wife, butyou know, and that is and that
(08:49):
is this Okay, so I got, I gotmarried recently, about about
this year.
Congratulations yeah thank you,thank you, and we went to the.
You know, no matter how you doyour marriage in California, at
least you have to like go to thestate house and like get the
paperwork, like the marriagelicense, and then you have to
like get it signed and then dropit off again.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
There's a legal aspect of it that makes it
official.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And for us, like, I just did that all in person
because it's like it's like a 20minute bus right off the road.
So instead of like mailing itand wondering, oh no, is it in
the mail, I just physically likecarried it there and did this
or, you know, physically wentand got it, physically went and
brought it back.
You know, okay, and that meansthat the state house has like a
contact point with like almosteveryone who gets married.
(09:36):
Right, the state has thiscontact point, okay, and they,
they leveraged that to give me apacket, a pack.
They gave me this like packet.
That was like you know like 10,maybe like six pages long, or no
.
No, no, no, it was shorter thanthat.
It was just like a trifold, atrifold brochure and they're
like you're getting married.
Here's this trifold brochureand it was like you're getting
(09:57):
married California, you knowgovernment trifold packet.
Okay, 80% of this thing waslike it, literally this sounds
crazy, but 80% of this likethree of the trifolds of the six
trifold sides said how to notget STDs from your partner.
That's what it was, that's theleading concern.
(10:20):
Yeah, and then the other sideswere like you know how to turn
in your paperwork on time, likefor this, for the, you know for
this marriage licensing stuff,and then like there was like a
few like support lines for likedomestic violence, and then that
was it, that was the wholething, and I was like wow, what
a missed opportunity, what theheck.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I mean, I feel like it is important not to get STDs
from your partner.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I just don't know how pressing that concern is for
most newly married people Maybe.
I mean sure, I'm not thatdenigrating, you know, health
and whatever.
Maybe that is a problem for alot of people.
Great, I mean sure and sure,include that, but there's so
much, okay.
(11:07):
So my solution today is whensomeone gets people, when people
get married, yeah, theCalifornia State House should
give them a 40 page book.
Okay, this is like not a heart,you know, this is like a two $1
cost.
Okay, a 40, 50 page book andit's like a little booklet and
(11:29):
it has pictures and it's, youknow, super easy to read.
It's in Spanish and English andChinese and you know Tagalog,
right, or whatever you can getin available in any language you
need.
Availability language.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And when you open it up, it's like here's how to be
married.
Oh no, no, I think that shouldbe doable in 40 pages with
pictures?
Absolutely no no, honestly Ithink it is.
I think you can boil it down tolike I mean not, not obviously
how to be married.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Okay, so what's on page one of how to be married by
Adam Brouse?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, I mean, there's a lot of nice things.
You know that you could say.
I mean I'm not saying younecessarily would cover
everything, and it's an ocean ofhuman experience, right?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Hey, it's got to be better than here's 70% on how to
not get STDs and, by the way,here's maybe don't get domestic
violence at the same time.
You know like it's got to bebetter than that.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So what else?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
would you include?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, I'll say okay, I'll say I'll say on the last,
I'll say okay on the first page.
I think the first page is is ais a six coupons that can be
torn out and they are freecouples counseling sessions that
you can redeem with anylicensed therapist in California
.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That's not bad actually.
Right Like no no expirationdate no expiration date.
If you have them, yeah, yeah,or maybe, or maybe two of them
expire in six months.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
And it's like hey, get your marriage on track.
These are your on track maritalcounseling sessions that we
want you to use at the beginningof the marriage with a
counselor to like right, sortthings out that are, even if you
have a great relationship,you're in love and everything's
great.
This counselor can like bringup five or six things that you
should like think about and play.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, and kind of like that yeah, bulletproof,
bulletproof your marriage, youknow.
And then, like, the therapistdoesn't get shafted, they get
reimbursed by whatever youreimbursed 100 bucks or whatever
.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, or whatever by the state, which to the state,
this is like pennies on thedollar.
Right, Because the cost ofdivorce for the state is huge.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Right, and this is investment and just not just I
mean you don't, you don't wantyour goal as a state for people
to be just miserable enough notto get divorced.
I mean you want, you want themultimately to be happy enough to
want to stay there.
You know like, and so I thinkthat's a great idea actually
Giving, like, having it to benormalizing the idea of couples
(14:00):
counseling and before there's aproblem yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Before there's a problem yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Like look, it's right here, Everyone has it, everyone
knows.
There you go, you can use it.
You know you don't have to useit.
Some people are going to belike, no, no, no, this is done.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
We don't need to counsel it's good, right, right,
but it's there, it's there,yeah, and when there's a problem
, you've got those four otherones, and that's like you know.
You say, hey, we're reallyhitting a rocky point.
Let's, let's use these these,these, these ones.
Or you could say you know,we're going to shop around for a
therapist or a counselor.
We can use each one as a testsession and now we can find a
(14:36):
really good counselor orwhatever.
You know whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Can I ask a dumb logistics question?
Sure Are these, are these?
Are these coupons personalizedto my marriage Meaning?
Let's say I have a roughmarriage and my friends Jim and
Sally, they're doing great, so Iburn through all my coupons.
Can I use one of Jim andSally's coupon Like?
(15:00):
Will they know if I try to usetheir coupon on me?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Or I have a valuable yeah.
Yeah, that's what I bet.
Are they fungible?
I don't think they'd befungible, because then people
could sell them.
So they should be like.
They should be like stamp.
You should have to like signthem or something when you start
.
So they're like if you sellthem.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
They're presumed like who are they going to?
They're not no one's hoardingcouples counseling coupons Like
they'd be going to people whowant to buy more couples
counseling because theypresumably need it, right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I guess, I guess, yeah, I'm okay, I just don't.
I just don't.
I just don't want people whoare like, no, how am I going to
score my next thing of of heroin?
I'll sell my couples counselingcoupons for 50 bucks, 40 bucks.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Actually, that's a.
That's a point.
Yeah, if you do give anythingof value, then people will find
a way to transmute that valueinto whatever, whatever their
substance is or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, like you would find more video cameras to set
up like even more elaboratestreaming situation, I would.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I have if you'd had.
If you wanted to do this laterthe day, I have a green screen
set up right over there that Iwas just trying to figure out
how to throw into the mix.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
But so you asked about one of the things were in
the booklet, so here's theinteresting thing so.
So there's a little bit thatthere is a reason why I think
this didn't exist and why now,in the last 20 years, it would
be possible to make this book.
And the reason why is evidencebased medicine and especially
(16:36):
evidence based psychology, whichmeans evidence based marital,
marital sort of the waymarriages should work right or
do generally work well.
Not that they shouldnecessarily work that way, but
they do, based on the data thatthe good marriages work a
certain way right.
And so in the past, this wouldhave been completely the realm
(16:57):
of your favorite thing.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Religion.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, religion would have stepped up and said well,
you can't listen to the statetelling you how to be married.
That is God's.
You know.
God has put you together.
God can put you apart and Scott, god, god, come talk to the
priest or the, whatever, the, orsomething.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I'm familiar with how that couple scouts will go the
husband and wife have a conflictand then the priest says well,
the husband is the boss of thefamily, so do what the husband
says.
Wow this is really cool.
Bye guys.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And the guy's like this is a great religion.
Guys like I dig this, this ispretty cool.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The wife's like great , I'm glad I'm stuck in this
sweet cool yeah, no, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And if you, and if you get divorced you're shunned
completely out of there, yourwhole community and therefore
yeah, yeah.
No, so that's not good, and Imean okay.
But I will say something though, which is that, on the data,
even now, where you can getdivorced in most places without
you know too much, I mean it'sbad but you can.
(18:06):
You know there's no faultdivorce.
Now, people who are religiousall have a lower divorce rate.
It's a.
The rate of divorce doesn'tmean they all don't get divorced
, they do.
Some still get divorced, butit's a much lower rate.
Right, and the interesting thingis it's all religious people,
it's not one, it's not like onereligion does it and another
(18:28):
religion doesn't.
They all have a lower divorcerate, which, which the
interesting thing is, I did alittle bit of research, the
reason why this may be or whatthe thing that's common between
all the religions is almostevery religion requires you to
meet with the priest or thepresident or the master
cathedral or the rabbi or yourminister, like three times or
(18:52):
five times before you getmarried, or even take like a
class with other people who areabout to get married and the.
It's very easy content and evensort of a valuable thing that's
(19:12):
kind of prompted for you andbase it on science instead of
basing it on the differentreligious.
You know things.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Do you think when you're saying, like the
percentages of marriages staytogether versus split up, do you
think that's an actualreflection of the percentages of
people who are happy in theirmarriages versus not happy in
their marriages?
Do you think it's actuallyhigher in religion or do you
think that what I'm seeing isthere could be at play the
reason that there's less divorceis because of a more of a guilt
(19:43):
or judgmental it's.
In religion it may be seen asmore of a moral failing to get a
divorce and not seem like thatas much outside of religion.
I think that could stop somepeople who would otherwise get
divorced in in a completelycontrolled versus, you know,
like experiment situation.
I feel like I don't know thatyou're, I don't know that it's
(20:05):
just one variable, right.
Like I feel like there's a bigpart of it that's guilt and like
we would get divorced but Ican't because God would be mad
at us, right?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Hmm, yeah, I mean I can't, you can't spear into
their heads.
But so the I mean at thestatistical level, you don't
know what happens Like you don'tknow what happens inside the
box.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
You just know what happens at the edge of the box.
They just don't get sure theydon't get so.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, very, very likely, but I have a theory only
happy yeah.
So well, I'm not saying they'rehaving marriages necessarily,
but what I'm saying is they allhave this in common and I and I
know from from both the datawhich is that couples counseling
isn't a waste of time.
It helps people stay togetherand premarital counseling is
does help make marriagesstronger and more likely to be
(20:53):
resilient.
Okay, the fact that the entirepopulation of people, not just
religious, like, oh, they have areligious heart, oh, they like,
they, like you know they'reChristian or something, but they
never go to church, butactually people who are in in a
church and part of thatcommunity and to get married in
that community, the priests orthe, the minister says you have,
(21:13):
in order to be married here andhave me be the certain the
minister, you have to do thisprogram where you meet with me
or you go to this class.
That itself is premaritalcounseling and so and so it's it
.
Just, it makes sense that thenthe numbers would be better
without, without even peoplejust sort of being like forced
in some sort of course of way orpsychologically, course of way,
(21:35):
for it to be better.
And I'm not even proposing, oh,we should do it in a religious
way.
No, all I'm saying is providethat programming for free for
people through the state, andhave it be based on science so
everything can be cited, likethe last page of the book can be
like citations to the sciencethat said that that explains
this Right.
(21:56):
Okay, so it's not like God or Idon't know.
Even tradition.
I mean, a lot of this might goagainst tradition, you know.
So, like one page of the bookcould be like queer marriages
and like, say, a bunch of likeevidence based stuff about how
queer marriages are, liketotally fine and obviously, and
like work and like, and I don'tknow, I'm not it, I don't know
about queer marriages.
(22:16):
I'm sure there's like somedifferences though, too, you can
include them evidence based,like, hey, here's what the thing
, you know, here's some thingsyou might end, you know, you
might want to whatever thingabout, but it's probably that
there is no difference.
I mean, that's probably whatthe data finds.
I assume, okay, here's okay,key thing, key thing.
This is what the evidence.
Because I took a whole, I took awhole, I took a whole
(22:38):
psychology class and we talkedabout this for about half the
class.
So the main thing is like, themain thing is attachment theory.
That's like the key thing,that's like it, that's how
that's basically what marriageis is you're attaching yourself
to another person emotionallyand so you use attachment, which
is like a whole sort of suiteof emotional sort of grooves
(23:03):
that you have in your in yourpsyche, your psyche, that were
kind of put there by, like yourmom and your dad and like other
other attachment experiences youhad throughout your life and
then and then.
So if you know about attachmentand what it does, why, why it
does the way it does, and thenwhat your sort of comfort level
is, then you can be in amarriage much better than then
(23:23):
if you don't know any of thatand everything's just kind of
coming at you right there yeah.
So, and then that ties into coregulating emotions, which is
basically the main goal ofattachment, which is like to co
regulate emotions, so whensomeone feels bad, then the
other person can like supportthem, you know, so that they're
(23:44):
regular, that they can feel lessbad because the other person's
there to share in that emotion,right, and so that's basically
why I mean, that's basicallywhat people do.
It's like, what kinship is,it's what otherwise we would all
just be, you know, cyborgsliving in, you know, our own
individual units, not needinganyone else, right, right, but
people don't know this, peopledon't know this.
(24:04):
You know, some people mightthink that their partner should
feel everything they're feeling.
That's actually not coregulation, that's just.
That's just like you know.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I don't know some weird expectation that yeah, two
people being one being yeahexactly, which isn't what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Or, and then another partner might think, man, you
know, he's so sensitive, he's soemotional.
Obviously, it might go theother way, you know.
The guy might say she's soemotional, so sensitive, gosh,
can she just pull herselftogether?
And it's like you don'tfreaking, get it, dude, like
this is marriage.
What you signed up for is coregulation of emotions.
You know, like this is what yousigned up for and so that's
(24:51):
like a simple.
Those are like simple things,totally evidence based, simple
things.
Okay, it would actually be abig improvement on what the
religious people are teaching.
I'm sure, I mean, although Ithink they're probably teaching
a light sort of sprinkledversion of this, with, like God
over the top.
You know yeah.
So those are two things.
Another thing you could do isyou could just teach people how
(25:12):
to like, how to fighteffectively, like with non
violent communication.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Oh, and that's this, and that's so simple.
I got excited for a second.
I thought, okay, how to fightin a different way?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, you're saying it doesn't hurt any in a healthy
way.
Right, I've had some yeah thisagreements, yeah like don't do
this, do this.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Instead, say an easy one, like say I state it's not
you.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, exactly, you know.
And use them, use emotionallyfocused language.
I feel this way when you saythat so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So, instead of saying you are wrong, yeah, I am right
.
That's how.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I do that.
That's right.
I feel right when I say this I,you know who, you know who
would be against this thing istherapists, because I don't
actually think.
I don't actually think it'sthat hard actually.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
There, you don't think, therapies that are no no,
no, I think marriage is like tomarriage.
Is that hard?
I don't think it's like whatpeople make it out to be.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think marriage is easier than people think.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
How long have you been?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
married.
I was married for five or fouryears, then got divorced and now
buried again for almost a year.
Okay, yeah, so two, twodifferent marriages, and I think
I think it's easier than peoplethink.
People just don't tell you howto do it.
It's like.
It's like if you were like likesailing, sailing if you got on
(26:35):
a boat you could literally dieif you didn't know how to do it.
But if someone gives you likefive or six sailing lessons,
you're going to be a prettycompetent sailor.
You won't be the best sailor inthe world, like you, won't be
able to, like you know, crossthe right, you know the Atlantic
, but you're like you can, youknow.
You know the boat and theboat's fun, everyone's safe.
You're going to, you know, wearyour life jacket, you know
hasn't, dr Phil, but if you, butif you didn't take any sailing
(26:58):
lessons and they were just likego out in the sailboat.
That boat is going over capsize.
And there's like you're goingdown no, no, life jacket.
You're like that's what I think.
It's like it's high stakes, butit's not actually that hard of
people.
Someone teaches you how to doit.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Hasn't Dr Phil made an entire career on telling
people how to do marriage?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Dr Phil made it makes a career on fear.
That man is one of the worst,most horrible.
No, what?
Just shock.
He's a succubus.
He's a succubus, that's what heis, you know a succubus.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, the succubus is a demon.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I don't think you're using that correctly.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, no, no, I am, no, I am yeah.
Succubus, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
They are no.
An incubus, oh no.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
One of them.
One of them.
One of them sits on your chest.
Both of them are asexual, so Idon't think you're using either
one wreck.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
In a way oh no, okay.
Sexual intercourse of thesleeping sleeping moment.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's not what I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I thought a succubus, there is a monster that sits on
your chest and, like, absorbsfear.
He's a dementor, he's adementor.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
A dementor what, what ?
I don't think there wasanything sexual about the
dementors.
He's like a fear demon.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's what he is.
He just gets more.
He's so large too, and his headis so big, but his eyes stay
close together as his head grows.
His eyes stay like one inchapart.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And he just absorbs the dark.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, the dark, the dark fear of America.
He just beads on it like afreaking vampire.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I mean that's he's evil.
That's the T, that's theplaybook of every like TV TV
psychoanalyst Right.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I mean, that's every single one, so it's
psychoanalyst, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I mean, he's just, he's, he's, he boils down to it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
A really super ethical smart doctor man is or
woman or an, or woman or anybody, but no, a super smart doctor
is going to not like diagnosepeople in public on TV with
cameras and think that this isthe A number one healthiest way
to go about doing things.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Like can't possibly think that in a reality.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean he's building the neurosis.
He's like he's basicallypromoting neurotic neuroticism
and neuroses and mental illnessin his audience by doing what
he's doing.
He's evil, he's so evil.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
He's generating wealth by creating spectacle.
I mean, he's doing the samething that I don't care about.
I don't care about generatingwealth.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Anyone can create spectacles and generate wealth
as much as they want.
My my thing is I think theAmerican Academy of
Psychiatrists and psychologistsshould fricking condemn him for
being like he's.
He's promoting neurosis.
Everyone who watches gets moreneurotic from watching him.
They don't get less neuroticbecause at the end they're like
(29:50):
I'm terrified of this andterrified of that and scared of
this, and maybe this is theproblem.
And now I have anxiety becauseI have all these terrifying
things that are planted in mykey.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You're saying he's like the therapist version of
searching on WebMD, where youstart by like I think I have a
hang nail and you end withyou're like well, I have the
plague, it turns out.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Turns out.
These are the symptoms and Idefinitely have them Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, I want, I listen to him.
He's an absolute wordsmith inthe most evil way.
I listened to him on Bill Mayeror whatever, which I it's a
guilty pleasure to what he's,Bill Mayer, so stupid, but I
kind of I like.
I like the goofy things that hesays Bill.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Marr, what's his, what's his show called?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
now Real Time.
Oh, okay, real Time with BillMarr, but anyways, he was on
there and he said the mostmessed up weird stuff about like
mass shooters wanting to be nothaving enough sex, and it was
like what the hell is this guytalking about?
(30:48):
Oh my god, and it was all meantto know.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
If there's one thing I don't understand, it's the
mind of a mass shooter.
Yeah, listen to me when I tellyou that they're just horny he
was like boys, have to betreated like boys and if they're
not well.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's why you see mass shooters and I was like,
who is this guy?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
like all right now, I'm gonna go out on a ledge and
say that this teenage boy washorny.
All right now, follow with me.
If you're able to, all right,if you're able to make that leap
with me, it makes me wonderabout like what, what can't do?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
we have a way in society, it's, I guess it's like
the dangers of freedom ofspeech, right?
Is that?
If someone just is a horriblemonster but they say things that
are sort of whatever, like theyhad this sort of platform, they
, you just can't stop them, evenif they're hurting people.
It's so weird, I meancharismatic nidnicks.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Getting an audience has been a long time thing right
, I mean that's America.
I mean I was gonna say sincethey invented microphones, but
before that it was peoplestanding out in the quad or
whatever the public forum andshouting into megaphones.
And then, like you know, andthat's where some of the, you
know, the, the originalphilosophers, I'm sure, back in
ancient Greece, the, the smartones, were sitting there and
(32:12):
there were some people crowdedaround the dum-dums and they
were like why are they goingaround?
I'm Plato, what's going on?
Why are they over there nearthat dude?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
like what's going on over here.
You know, I I think it's justbeen a problem forever, I think
it's just a human thing.
I wonder.
I know I know people who arelike free free speech.
You know, really radicalabsolutists are not gonna like
this.
But if you could prove which Ithink you definitely could that
his content actually makesmental illness.
(32:44):
So now we're talking about nowwe're talking about illness,
right?
So if you could say, right,let's take a thought, let's take
500 people, or you know asignificant sample size of
people, test them for what theirlevel of anxiety is, you know,
and then and then have themlisten to like two hours
straight of like dr Phil content, just random any dr Phil
(33:04):
content, and then test theiranxiety level after and show the
dr Phil, okay, increase theiranxiety level.
And then bring them in threeweeks later and see if it's
persistent, see if it likepersistently made them more
anxious or more whatever kind ofmental illness.
Okay then, okay.
So the limits on free speechthat are constitutional and that
even free speech absolutistsgenerally agree to is the
(33:27):
classic, you know this yellingfire in a building, yelling fire
in a crowded room, that'sthat's
the.
That's so.
If the speech represents aclear and present danger to the
people who hear it, then you canlimit speech and you can do it
fully constitutionally.
Yeah, you can prove that drPhil literally makes people ill
(33:51):
in their brain.
Just like.
If, just like you were clubbingsomeone in the knee, you're
making them ill in their body,then you could say this guy
cannot be on the air, like hemust be shut up, not because we
don't agree with what he'ssaying politically or this or
that, but for medical reasonsnot that I love dr Phil, but
(34:11):
that feels like a flawedexperiment.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
that seems like the same as the the.
Cia when they put the giantmega speakers playing heavy
metal, it you know for hours andhours being like.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I guess heavy metal is that you listen, people watch
Tim Phil, dr Phil's show andyou binge it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
you can watch three episodes if you watched 24 hours
of horror.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I said two hours I said, two hours of doctor if you
watched a bunch of horrormovies and then you'd be like.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It turns out, their nightmares increase if they do
that every day, like okay, somaybe don't do it every day a
little bit.
Sometimes some stuff,moderation, but I don't know I
got.
I'm not in favor of but youhave nightmares.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
That's not.
That's not mental illness,that's just nightmares, right
you know I'm so.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I mean there are tests for me at talk, but I mean
, no, don't let the man I thinkhe needs to be shut up.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I think I need to shut up.
I honestly think so because,because, and I think it's like
yelling fire.
It's yelling fire if you could,if you spoke.
It's like Mary.
It's like Mary, typhoid Mary.
You know, typhoid Mary, I doknow typhoid Mary yeah, it's
like typhoid Mary.
She can't be allowed to makeice cream for people anymore,
(35:19):
like she just can't she haspeople who don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
She's a person who had typhoid but didn't have
symptoms, but she was giving itto other people left and right
she and she worked in kitchen.
Put in here make yeah, theylocked her away even though she
didn't she wasn't sick.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah they initially locked her away, and I think
they did actually fully lock heraway later.
Yeah, but yeah, she got out afew times to like she.
They would like try to put heraway, and then she'd be like I'm
not.
I'm not sick, I don't havetyphoid yeah she's.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I mean.
You know, every so often achild would look at a mirror,
say her name three times andthen, boom, she's out again.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
You're like we gotta go get married again I I think
I'm not saying he can't have ajob, be a person like he
shouldn't go to jail, but heshould not be allowed on the
airwaves like this.
Freedom, the freedom of speech,is not the freedom of reach.
Right, the freedom of speech isnot the freedom of reach.
You're not a little, it's not.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
so what job would you get?
Like this is becoming a drPhilip, so, but what?
What job?
Would you give him instead,because if you can't talk about
what I, mean that is his job, isdoing what you don't want him
to do, so what?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
he can, he can.
He's a trained therapist.
He can just be a therapist.
Okay, I think he can also.
I don't even think he should beallowed to write books, though,
either.
His books are the same shit,it's the same shit.
You could prove the same shitfor his books.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Let's burn the books.
What?
Oh, yes, but okay.
So you're advocating for bookburning and for non-free speech?
I got this.
No, no, this is free of speech.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
This is.
This is freedom of speech,absolutism.
Don't yell fire in a crowd ofdon't don't do things that lead
to a direct harm to the peoplewho hear it right.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I, quite yelling, fired out of crowded theater to
tie fire in a book.
No, no, this is shelf no, no,this is.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
This is you.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna make anaccusation, this is you falling
into the old thing which iswe're trying to leave behind by
treating mental illness as lessthan physical illness.
That's what you're doing rightnow.
You're saying, if he walkedaround, if everyone who heard
him, you know, got, you know,clubbed in the knee and I
couldn't walk, then you'd belike, well, he can't speak, he's
(37:25):
literally killing, he's hurtingeveryone, right, because when
he speaks there's violence,right, but I'm saying mental
illness is one to one, equal tophysical illness and therefore
if he's causing mental illness,he also needs to be stopped.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
He should be put in prison for assault.
Is that what you're sayingright now?
Well, maybe.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, well, if you yell, if you yell fire in a
crowded building, you could puthim prison.
Right, if someone fit, theyfigure out who do they?
Think so.
I think yeah, yeah, yeah, youheard everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, you're a vandal I think if someone dies in like
a stampede on the way out andyou caused it, then you get
nailed with that.
But I think if you just like ifeverybody went out orderly and
they just missed the second halfof Dune, you wouldn't like
you're still locked away, you'retrouble, you're not going away
and no, no, you're not.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no anyways, I just think people,
people were.
We live in this time where allthese free speech absolutists
who act like it can really belike a free, a free for all yeah
, free speeches.
Free speech is not as a freefor all as people think.
There's absolutely the noyelling and you know no yelling
fire in a clouded building thatthat is an absolute.
Even free speech.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Absolutists agree and there's no, no dr Phil talking
or writing, that's the otherSupreme Court case.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yes, phil V.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Phil V, the people, the McGraw yeah, the people.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
V McGraw, that's a good one.
Okay, we don't talk about myrefill anymore yeah, we're
talking about marriage so sofree, free, pro bono marriage
counseling and a marriagebooklet to strengthen marriages.
And remember, this is notreligious and it's not right
wing, it's not demoting the, theprestige or the status of women
.
This is just supportingmarriages so that marriages can
(39:08):
and it can succeed.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I love that.
I love the coupons forcounseling to have that resource
available.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I really do and I have to say I got that from
Andrew Yang.
He said that on the campaigntrail when he was running for
president.
It's hard.
I love it really.
Yeah, it's a good one, allright.
So what are other two?
Just just like other pages of?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
the book how to fight , you know yeah how to split up,
to do the division of laborright.
Would that be?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
one yeah, maybe I mean finances should be a
finance is a huge thing yeah, orI think you could, or I think
you could give people likeoptions.
You could be like here's one wayto do your finances.
You know everything combinedand here's how you pay into it
and here's how you pay out of itand here's how you deal with
differences of opinion.
Another way could be what I,what I, what I recommend, which
(39:58):
maybe this is like a sort of subsolution in itself, which is
the proportional method, whereeach person can make more or
less money but the people payinto group you know, group
financial decisions,proportionally based on their
after-tax income, and then andthen and then.
That that's nice, because thenif someone's much richer,
(40:20):
wealthier, like they have ahigher earning power, you can do
really nice things till you cango on like expensive vacations,
whatever, because the personwho makes much less only pays
like whatever one tenth or onethird or one, one quarter or one
fifth or at least you know,depending on their proportional
income.
So you can still go doexpensive things, but the person
who makes less money can stillfeel like I'm contributing
(40:40):
exactly like equitably to thisthing.
So I'm an equal with you andwe're, you know, we're you're
not having some outsized powerin the marriage because we agree
to this proportional what about?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I think that's really a good way to do it what about
a page that's like things to beon the same page up like
important, big topic?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
you know big-tent topics like yeah, kids, kids,
yeah, yeah, how do?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
you feel about.
You know these, these certainissues that are right, that are
common.
I guess there's probably datayou're an evidence guy, so
there's definitely data on, likedifferent issues that people
fight over the most.
I think money is always numberone, but you know like there are
other things like that are justimportant issues to be like.
Hey, you may have already hadthese conversations, you may
(41:29):
already know you're on the samepage, but just in case, here's a
list of topics that like kindof come up in people's things.
Maybe you know, broach thesethings and see if you guys are
how you feel about it.
Make sure you guys are on thesame thing, because otherwise
it's like a ticking time bombfor later.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, and then even, and then right in, like, right
like, couching that section, youcan give them like
evidence-based, provenstrategies for how people who
are on different pages get ontothe same page right Like sit
down, like it could be like alittle exercise.
Sit down and write 10 things oflike why you care about this,
and now find things that youboth have the same why's.
(42:09):
Even though you end up atdifferent conclusions, you might
have a lot of the same why's.
Oh okay, we're actually.
You know right, that could beanother part of the marriage
booklet which is called, whichis similarity.
People who, people who believethey're similar to one another,
stay more in love with eachother.
(42:32):
If people like eat.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, this is similar to each other's.
What happened to the Paul Abdulopposite to attract?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Well, that's attraction.
Attraction is different thanlove, than than intimacy,
staying together.
Yeah, well, intimacy.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah so attraction.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
you might be attracted by the mystery or the
way you know they can dosomething that you admire, that
you can't do, or somethingthat's just like an opposite,
and your complementarity mightkind of attract you.
But at the end of the day, whatdo they call it?
When people get divorced?
No contest divorce.
We have irreconcilabledifferences.
That's what they say it's.
The differences are what drivepeople apart.
So if all day long, you arehighlighting to your partner
(43:14):
well, you think that way and Idon't think that way.
I think this other way.
We're different.
In that way you constantlyhighlight the difference.
I mean there's differencesbetween people, but if you
highlight those differences allthe time, you're going to drive
like a feeling of likeseparation, whereas if you're
always emphasizing that you knowthere's ways that you're
similar, then you'll be drivingtogether constantly.
(43:37):
So, in the face of, we have allthese differences, if you focus
on the similarities, you'll dobetter.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Okay, Well yeah, so we got the pages of the thing
delivered.
Would this be an app?
I mean, could it just be an appwith different pages as well?
It seems like there would be adigital version.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, you could publish the digital version, pod
, you know PDF that anybodycould get and download and print
, or.
But then you could just havestacks of these books at the
state house and when people gotmarried by mail and you had to
mail it to them, just slip it inthe mail packet and send it
with them.
So there's all this greatevidence based, evidence based
research just in people's homes.
And, who knows, kids will findthe book and be like, oh my God,
(44:17):
I understand why my parents'marriage sucks so bad.
They're not doing any of thesethings.
You know like.
You know they don't fight thatway.
They fight like animals.
You know they cast dispersionson each other and you know they
emphasize all the things.
Obviously there'd be a page onintimacy.
You know sex.
You know close sexual closeness.
You know physical.
You know, and you could throwin love languages.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
You probably don't want the kids finding this
booklet then.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
No, kids, kids, kids know about sex.
These kids can look at it.
So it's not positions, it's notpictures of positions.
It's like intimacy, emotionalintimacy.
Okay yeah, because that's whatyou know underlies sexual long
term sexual relationship, right.
You could also talk about family, internal family systems.
You could talk about wounds,that people, that people that
(45:05):
your partner has wounds and youhave wounds, and that one
emotional wounds that are likeyou know, that are that they
defend and they protect becausethey're, because there's, you
know they don't feel safesharing that all the time, yeah,
but that those wounds are notbad or debilitating.
They're actually places thatyou can connect, like each of
you can connect over when youfeel comfortable or safe enough
(45:26):
to share that.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
That feels like a lot for a pamphlet, but yeah, I I
was surprised.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
You know, it's like a kid's book.
You can have kids book.
People are really seriousthings.
You used to a similar thing,but yeah, there's just a tons of
stuff in your date, your spouse, right?
Yeah, our spouse, like you know, have special you could call
that date someone else's spouse.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Don't date other people's spouse, Unless that's
part of your.
You know your thing that youguys agree to, or whatever I
would, I would put oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Okay, I would put a, I would put the date, the lot
you know, I would put the dataaround the chances of things
like that working out likeshould we have an open marriage?
Oh, how many percentage of openmarriage is lead to divorce?
That might be interesting toknow before we decide to do that
.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Probably zero, but no yeah it's near zero.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
But the another thing you could do is I would call
the date, your spouse thing,like just moments, moments, and
say you should have a smallmoment every day, right, and
then you should have a bigmoment, a medium moment, every
week, and then you should have abig moment every month.
(46:34):
What's a small moment?
You know dating a small moment.
A small moment like you know,your wife comes home and you and
you and you, you pull her sideand you sit and you don't know,
one has their phones out and yousit facing each other and you
and you ask them how their daywas and they say it was really
tough and you like, co regulatethat emotion.
You say like, oh, that sucks.
(46:55):
And you don't give any, soobviously no solutions, don't I
like just, oh, that's, that'stough, you know.
And then she goes, ah, and shefeels so much better because her
emotion got, you know, small,but I've seen it, yeah, and it's
a small moment, and she's likeGod, I'm glad I'm married, my
husband's great, this is great.
And then, you know, and viceversa, I, you know, the husband
feels great because the wife,you know, co regulated his
(47:16):
feelings too.
He might say all day long I waswhatever, and now you're here,
thank God, okay, so now, what'sa medium moment?
Once a medium moment might belike, you know, date night or
some kind of thing, where youmaybe go somewhere.
You do something special in thehouse just you, sure, the full
massage, maybe like a sexy timesession, that's special, like
maybe, you know, like a fewcandles or something.
(47:37):
Just make it a little,something a little.
It can't just be like wrote, ithas to be like something a
little special every week, okay.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And then it's just you a monthly moment.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Big moment would be, like, you know, like something
where it's extra, extra special,where you really go out of your
way to do something.
Each of you go out of your wayto do something special.
But yeah, so that would becalled moments.
That would be one page of thebook.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Okay, I think our books up to about eight pages
long now.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I know, and we've already covered, like the most
everything you need to do?
I mean the fighting thing inthe attachment theory that's
like, that's it, that's like 90%and the core regulation of
emotions and then the sex stuffand a little bit of money stuff.
I mean that you basically arecovering your basis, you know,
sure, anyway?
So I think California shouldwrite this up.
They should make a secular, asecular, free marital and
(48:27):
marital counseling and couponsnetwork and then a booklet that
is just like the best hits ofabsolute most high impact things
you can do to make marriagesbetter and prevent and prevent,
strengthen marriages.
You know, I think maybe part ofthe book would be like when
things go off the rails, likethere could be a little section
(48:47):
on adultery and like you couldalso tell people the data on
adultery.
I think data helps a lot whatpercentage of marriages struggle
with adultery and whatpercentage of them don't get
divorced.
Make people realize thatthere's like a, there's a world
in which, you know, people makemistakes and they forgive each
other and they're fine.
You know, there's, you know, soyou could, you could.
(49:08):
And there's a world where thereisn't, where the adultery
destroys the marriage.
Right, Sure, but like, forexample, psychologists generally
consider and I've just readthis of various places
psychologists generally consideradultery to be a stress test on
the marriage, not a necessarilyan endpoint, like a really
strong marriage can oftensurvive, but a weaker marriage,
(49:29):
where there's a lot of otherthings that are up in the matter
doesn't always survive.
That's interesting for people toknow.
You know if you wrote that intothe booklet because it's true
like it's, it's an.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
You know, it's what I , what's what I read Turns out,
psychologists engaging inadultery heavily favor
forgiveness for this.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Oh yeah, turns out very overwhelmingly.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
What's the data?
You see the people who are like, not a problem that you look
into their personal life andit's like, oh, there is some
stuff happening.
Oh yeah, there's some bias.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Do you want to hear?
Do you want to hear the storyon adultery?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
This is almost universally what I read the
story on adultery.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
This is almost universally what I read about
adultery, which is generallyspeaking and this is not
obviously everything isdifferent for everybody, but
generally speaking in, in, inthe data, men, men will commit
adultery to stay in a marriage.
But, women will commit adulteryto get out of a marriage that
seems weird.
(50:26):
Isn't that interesting.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
No, that seems oddly.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
That seems oddly you could say so you can think of it
this way Men are not likethey're not happy in the
marriage because they're notgetting all their needs met.
They're not.
They're not whatever.
They're having problems in themarriage, emotional or sexual,
it doesn't matter Okay.
And then they, and then they,like you know, they meet some
other woman and they're maybemeeting with them, or they're
meeting different women andthey're getting their needs met,
but they're not getting theirneeds met, so they can leave the
(50:51):
marriage.
They're actually getting theirneeds met, so they cannot leave
the marriage.
They're like I can stay in thismarriage as long as I get my
needs met.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Another way to look at that is they're not good.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
They're like I'm getting my physical.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I decided to get my physical needs met somewhere
else, because I don't want tounderdo the work of whatever.
The problem is, yeah, it's bad,that's it, that's it, that's it
, that's it, that's it, that'sit.
It seems like you are.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
This is not a good thing.
This is not a good thing.
And then so the trend withwomen.
The trend not always the case,but the trend with women is
they're actually they're doingadultery.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
They're on the way out.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
They're trying to get out of the marriage.
They're like they're likethey're going to then reveal to
their partner or they're justgoing to leave and they're going
to use that new relationship orlike getting you know as a
wedge.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
They see it as more of a door close To get away.
No, no, no, I've done mydecision.
Look, it's already done.
And the person?
Speaker 2 (51:47):
is going to be like.
We'll find that you're done,right, I see.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
But maybe men think it's more like oh no, no, no,
you should overlook this,because I want, I want to do.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
It's bad, no matter what.
I mean.
It's bad, and how you and howyou build back from it is hard
right, because if the woman isout the door, that's bad, but
it's also bad if the man'ssleeping around.
I mean, both are bad, by theway, is there a worse titled
like activity?
Speaker 1 (52:12):
because the idea that it's just adultery seems like
you should be just doing adultthings like.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
But it's one specific thing, it's one specific adult
thing and it's like you don'teven have to be an adult to do
it.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
But I mean, there's just like the idea of, like we
say, adulting now, but it's likethe word adultery is out there.
They're just, like you know,being an adult as in cheating on
your spouse.
The one thing that everyoneknows is synonymous with adulter
ring.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah.
It's just, that's a very odddriving, being a car paying your
taxes, cheating on your spouse,you know, adult thing.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
I like to go automobile.
Oh, what does that mean?
That's when I kill people withmy automobile.
You're like that's a reallyspecific use of the word
automobile.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Technically, you are using an automobile, but I think
I guess we also call itcheating, which is funny because
that's also sort of a weirdname for it, because it's like
you're cheating at a game.
That's how you win a gamewithout having to follow the
rules.
So it's almost laudatory, right.
It's almost like praising it,like oh, you're winning, dude,
so long as nobody finds out.
Like that's pretty fucked uptoo, I think.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
but I think that's probably the general feel of it.
It does probably feel likeyou're winning as long as anyone
doesn't find out, that's true.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
And then it all comes crashing down like a house of
cards, just like cheating, oh no.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
So that's the sewing the meme, where it's like sewing
the wind, you're like, hey,this rule is.
You're like reaping the world,like, oh no, what the heck this
sucks.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Well, listen to you, but quoting the Bible, sewing
the wind, reaping the whirlwind,that's some hardcore.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
It was in a flash comic.
It was in a flash comic, okay.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Okay, that's what I'm quoting, but anyways, I don't
want people to.
Everyone has opinions aboutthis stuff and you might not
take some dumb podcastersopinion, but no, but I really
like some of those ideas yeah.
Some of the things you couldthrow in there and some
committee of psychologistssanctioned by California would
decide what goes in this thing.
So it wouldn't, you know, therewouldn't be like risky business
, it would all just be the mostbedrock things attachment,
(54:12):
non-biocommunication, you know.
And then of course you includedon't get STDs from your partner
, or here's how to you know,domestic violence.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
It's like a basic first aid kit for a marriage.
Yeah, and why not equip peoplewith that from the outset?
Speaker 2 (54:25):
You know, it, just it does make total sense.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
I love it.
Yeah, okay, all right, thanksfor another banger, adam, and we
got to Banger Banger.
Are we talking about sex?
Or is it Dr Phil too?
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Dr Phil's banging on other people too, I'm sure.
But well.
Well, scott, let me tell youabout how you've been a mass
shooter if you didn't have sexwhen you were a teenager.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
What the hell are you talking about?
The problem is you didn't haveenough girlfriends, son.
Get out there and be a boy.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
And if people won't let you be a boy, that's the
problem of society.
You should demote the status ofwomen.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
He's like one step shy of just like excusing all in
cell behavior.
Yeah exactly, it's kind of whathe's doing.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Yeah, he's like sort of excusing really bad behavior.
So anyways, he's givingeveryone fire.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
He's yelling fire in a building, all right, fine,
freedom of speech for everyoneexcept him.
Sorry, sorry, phil.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
No, that's not what I said.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah, Damn free speech.
Are you free?
Speaker 2 (55:30):
speech, absolutely.
Oh, we're going to have to do afree speech solution.
I have a lot of opinions onfree speech.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
I would invite Dr Phil on, but he's been muzzled
now by his eyes.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
His eyes are too close by cancel culture Adam
over here, mr.
Cancel culture All right,everybody stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Hopefully next week I'll be allowed to talk on the
podcast with you.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
But now, you're calling down the fire word.
You're ripping the we're goingto reap the whirlwind here with
this one.
Oh, you're going to eat theBible.
Okay, everybody stay, staymarried, stay, you know stay,
stay married and stay climate.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Solymowy all the things, all the things.
Take care, All right, bye, bye.
Well, I told you, because we're on zoom right now
I told you I had some surprisesin store, because you gave me a
little bit of heads up and Iwoke up early.
So how about this?
Speaker 2 (00:13):
How about this?
Oh, now your head is a sideview and a forward view.
I don't understand.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
What am I looking at?
Why would you have two?
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Wait, that means you must have two cameras.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Wait, how about this?
Oh, hello what.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh hello.
So you just why have you Hi?
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Now there's a sky camera of me.
Speaker 2 (00:36):
Okay, are you about to say hello and another one's
going to pop up?
What about this?
What is that?
What's?
Speaker 1 (00:41):
going on here, what?
Speaker 2 (00:43):
is that?
Oh, is that your?
Speaker 1 (00:44):
screen.
It's a screen.
It's a YouTube screen.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Whoa, so is this for like streaming?
Can you stream all this Well?
Speaker 1 (00:51):
I just got a little bit into the OBS software and I
was like we could watch stufftechnically and react to it and
record and do a video typestreaming.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I likethat, but no part of me is just
being silly and I think it'spretty funny and I will.
That one needs to go away.
(01:12):
But I like these two.
I could always look somethingup and it's like right here on
the screen.
I just looked up cool visualsand that's what came up, nice,
and I was like we could do stuffthis way and it ups the
production value.
This doesn't have to be in thepot at all, I'm just saying
that's cool.
(01:32):
This is essentially my catcamera, so if my cats come and
do something cute, I can show ithappening.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh my God, and it's just because I saw it real tight
Like a stick, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
I needed to update my webcam game, so I have my old
ones in play, so anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Very cool.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
That's the exciting thing.
Is this distracting?
Is this a little distracting?
Speaker 2 (01:56):
No, no, it's not distracting at all.
I like to be able to see everycontour of your skin on your
nose.
Keeps me focused.
It's like a replacement forcoffee.
All right, I'll take it away.
Well, hey everyone.
(02:21):
Hello, my name is Adam Brown.
My name is Scott Moppen.
This is solutions from themultiverse.
Oh, are we going to do thewhole podcast synced up?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Yes, Okay start now.
Today.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
Every two days.
Fire route Didn't work.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Can I do a shout out here at the top of the show, of
course, before we get into your,before we get into your deal
today?
Sure, because we got actuallyan email to our email address.
This is a good time as any toplug that.
We have an email addresssolutions from the multiverse at
gmailcom and we got an emailfrom Steven Guarino and he said
(03:07):
that he was responding to thesticks and leaves episode a few
a few back about sleepingoutside, your solution to
sleeping outside and said thathis dad has been doing that for
a long time and that oursolution like just hearing that
randomly and the thing thatoverlapped with his life was
like really cool and he reallyenjoyed that episode.
So I wanted to say thanks forreaching out and encourage
(03:29):
anyone else.
If you want to write us, thatwould be fantastic.
I love hearing from him.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, he said.
He said he kind of had a hardtime like having compassion and
understanding his dad's choiceto sleep in his car a lot, and
and then when we said that Iexplained that it's just
extremely delightful, like it'sextremely pleasurable, His dad
said the same thing.
His dad has the means to sleepinside if he wanted to.
Speaker 1 (03:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
And his dad decides to sleep out in his car and
you'd say, well, the car'sinside, it's like no, he leaves
the door, the windows like openand cracked or whatever, and he
just says when he wakes up, it'slike the air is in the car and
he feels like he slept.
You know, he slept, he likes itbetter, and so by hearing me
talk about this actually madehim be able to sort of kind of
forgive his dad for doing thiskind of socially unacceptable
(04:18):
thing.
And it was cool.
It was a cool email.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
It was a really cool email.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I felt like wow, yeah , yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
That was really cool.
So thank you very much, stephen, for writing in and and I'm
happy that episode hit you, hitfor you that way, so yeah, yeah,
I, yeah, we do this.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
That's why we do this .
You know, new ideas Not onlycan change the world, they can
change our feelings about theworld.
Oh wow.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Change our feelings.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Welcome to the Lifetime Podcast Network.
Yes, oprah is here with us.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
We're going to have tears of joy, tears of sadness.
Yeah, well, that's great.
Okay, should we go straightinto the solution?
See, that would require me tohave a solution that we were
going to talk about today.
Yeah, I spent all weekpreparing a Dungeons and Dragons
campaign.
Oh no, so that is solution, ifI solution is like I don't know.
(05:15):
No, I have a list here I canlook, but yeah, I don't know
which one I'll pick, but thisDungeons and Dragons went really
well though, so I can say that,all right, I have a solution, I
have a solution.
I want to hear your solution.
Let's hear it.
Okay.
So one of the one of the kind ofone of the kind of funny things
about solutions on a businessthat we've noticed as a trend is
(05:35):
that we like approach problemsor I, sometimes my brain
approaches problems andsolutions kind of by like.
Well, let me put it this way,when you're starting a company,
this is all run up, which I knowI'm not supposed to do, but I
kind of want to give a littledisclaimer here because I think
it's interesting.
Yeah, so when you run a companyor you build a product, I can, I
can say because this is what Ido, I teach people how to do
(05:58):
this, and I've done this beforeCustomers know what's wrong with
your product, but they don'tknow how to fix it, like nine
times out of 10.
Sometimes someone will know howto fix the problem, but mostly
they're just like this sucks and, and you have to listen to them
about what sucks, but you kindof don't have to listen to them
about what they think thesolution is, because they don't
really know, because they're notexperts, right, usually,
usually I'm sure doctors feelthe same way, right, like the
(06:21):
patient knows they're sick,they're hurting, but they don't
really know the solution becausethey don't know how, like their
pancreas works or whatever,right?
So it's kind of like you haveto take take problems from one
area but then take solutionsfrom another area, and I feel
like that's a that's a good wayto think about America right now
in terms of like the right andthe left wing, like I think you
should really look at what theright wing says are like
(06:41):
problems or vice versa, like youcan kind of take problems from
one side and solutions from theother and kind of create like
this interesting, almost likeit's a combined combination of
two part of the partisan sides.
Anyways, so today we're going totalk about marriage and family
and family Okay.
(07:02):
Because, you know, the leftwing has this thing where
they're like families are just aconstruct.
People can just come together,come apart.
Everyone's just a sovereign.
You know, an individual who canlike whatever.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
But then they also say there's a huge problem with
loneliness and like there's ahuge problem with, like
political power in this countryand it's like, well, the
solution to that might be theright wing people saying like
the family is really importantand actually it's like a really
it's a solution to a lot ofproblems and so, and so I'm
going to kind of try to riff,like everyone on this podcast
(07:35):
probably knows that I'm prettyleft wing, but actually I think
this question about the familyis actually pretty important,
like building strong families.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
You like what the right marriages or aspects of
that perspective.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
Aspirationally yes, aspirationally.
I don't like what they usuallycome up with for their solutions
.
Like their solutions are likeso make it illegal for people to
divorce.
Like that's insane.
Like you could be in a horriblesituation and divorce would be
like the perfect thing in somecases, so why would you do that?
But or they do things like youknow.
They want to like reducewomen's place in the world so
(08:09):
that women are like have feweroptions, and I'm like that is so
stupid.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
There's like there's conflict between men and women
in the workplace and they'relike well then, if women aren't
in the workplace, then theconflicts avoid it.
You're like, no, no, no, no,that's not solving it correctly,
that's not the direction.
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
So I'm going to propose that, I'm going to
propose just a simple thingthat's very concrete, because I
like that like plausible,concrete could be done and I
think it would just improvepeople.
Marriages especially not notwhole.
I'm not going to go wholefamilies, I don't even have
family.
I just have a married wife, butyou know, and that is and that
(08:49):
is this Okay, so I got, I gotmarried recently, about about
this year.
Congratulations yeah thank you,thank you, and we went to the.
You know, no matter how you doyour marriage in California, at
least you have to like go to thestate house and like get the
paperwork, like the marriagelicense, and then you have to
like get it signed and then dropit off again.
Speaker 1 (09:11):
There's a legal aspect of it that makes it
official.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
And for us, like, I just did that all in person
because it's like it's like a 20minute bus right off the road.
So instead of like mailing itand wondering, oh no, is it in
the mail, I just physically likecarried it there and did this
or, you know, physically wentand got it, physically went and
brought it back.
You know, okay, and that meansthat the state house has like a
contact point with like almosteveryone who gets married.
(09:36):
Right, the state has thiscontact point, okay, and they,
they leveraged that to give me apacket, a pack.
They gave me this like packet.
That was like you know like 10,maybe like six pages long, or no
.
No, no, no, it was shorter thanthat.
It was just like a trifold, atrifold brochure and they're
like you're getting married.
Here's this trifold brochureand it was like you're getting
(09:57):
married California, you knowgovernment trifold packet.
Okay, 80% of this thing waslike it, literally this sounds
crazy, but 80% of this likethree of the trifolds of the six
trifold sides said how to notget STDs from your partner.
That's what it was, that's theleading concern.
(10:20):
Yeah, and then the other sideswere like you know how to turn
in your paperwork on time, likefor this, for the, you know for
this marriage licensing stuff,and then like there was like a
few like support lines for likedomestic violence, and then that
was it, that was the wholething, and I was like wow, what
a missed opportunity, what theheck.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
I mean, I feel like it is important not to get STDs
from your partner.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
I just don't know how pressing that concern is for
most newly married people Maybe.
I mean sure, I'm not thatdenigrating, you know, health
and whatever.
Maybe that is a problem for alot of people.
Great, I mean sure and sure,include that, but there's so
much, okay.
(11:07):
So my solution today is whensomeone gets people, when people
get married, yeah, theCalifornia State House should
give them a 40 page book.
Okay, this is like not a heart,you know, this is like a two $1
cost.
Okay, a 40, 50 page book andit's like a little booklet and
(11:29):
it has pictures and it's, youknow, super easy to read.
It's in Spanish and English andChinese and you know Tagalog,
right, or whatever you can getin available in any language you
need.
Availability language.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
And when you open it up, it's like here's how to be
married.
Oh no, no, I think that shouldbe doable in 40 pages with
pictures?
Absolutely no no, honestly Ithink it is.
I think you can boil it down tolike I mean not, not obviously
how to be married.
Speaker 1 (12:00):
Okay, so what's on page one of how to be married by
Adam Brouse?
Speaker 2 (12:04):
Well, I mean, there's a lot of nice things.
You know that you could say.
I mean I'm not saying younecessarily would cover
everything, and it's an ocean ofhuman experience, right?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Hey, it's got to be better than here's 70% on how to
not get STDs and, by the way,here's maybe don't get domestic
violence at the same time.
You know like it's got to bebetter than that.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
So what else?
Speaker 1 (12:28):
would you include?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Well, I'll say okay, I'll say I'll say on the last,
I'll say okay on the first page.
I think the first page is is ais a six coupons that can be
torn out and they are freecouples counseling sessions that
you can redeem with anylicensed therapist in California
.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
That's not bad actually.
Right Like no no expirationdate no expiration date.
If you have them, yeah, yeah,or maybe, or maybe two of them
expire in six months.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
And it's like hey, get your marriage on track.
These are your on track maritalcounseling sessions that we
want you to use at the beginningof the marriage with a
counselor to like right, sortthings out that are, even if you
have a great relationship,you're in love and everything's
great.
This counselor can like bringup five or six things that you
should like think about and play.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Yeah, and kind of like that yeah, bulletproof,
bulletproof your marriage, youknow.
And then, like, the therapistdoesn't get shafted, they get
reimbursed by whatever youreimbursed 100 bucks or whatever
.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Yeah, or whatever by the state, which to the state,
this is like pennies on thedollar.
Right, Because the cost ofdivorce for the state is huge.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Right, and this is investment and just not just I
mean you don't, you don't wantyour goal as a state for people
to be just miserable enough notto get divorced.
I mean you want, you want themultimately to be happy enough to
want to stay there.
You know like, and so I thinkthat's a great idea actually
Giving, like, having it to benormalizing the idea of couples
(14:00):
counseling and before there's aproblem yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Before there's a problem yeah.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
Like look, it's right here, Everyone has it, everyone
knows.
There you go, you can use it.
You know you don't have to useit.
Some people are going to belike, no, no, no, this is done.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
We don't need to counsel it's good, right, right,
but it's there, it's there,yeah, and when there's a problem
, you've got those four otherones, and that's like you know.
You say, hey, we're reallyhitting a rocky point.
Let's, let's use these these,these, these ones.
Or you could say you know,we're going to shop around for a
therapist or a counselor.
We can use each one as a testsession and now we can find a
(14:36):
really good counselor orwhatever.
You know whatever.
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Can I ask a dumb logistics question?
Sure Are these, are these?
Are these coupons personalizedto my marriage Meaning?
Let's say I have a roughmarriage and my friends Jim and
Sally, they're doing great, so Iburn through all my coupons.
Can I use one of Jim andSally's coupon Like?
(15:00):
Will they know if I try to usetheir coupon on me?
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Or I have a valuable yeah.
Yeah, that's what I bet.
Are they fungible?
I don't think they'd befungible, because then people
could sell them.
So they should be like.
They should be like stamp.
You should have to like signthem or something when you start
.
So they're like if you sellthem.
Speaker 1 (15:20):
They're presumed like who are they going to?
They're not no one's hoardingcouples counseling coupons Like
they'd be going to people whowant to buy more couples
counseling because theypresumably need it, right.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
I guess, I guess, yeah, I'm okay, I just don't.
I just don't.
I just don't want people whoare like, no, how am I going to
score my next thing of of heroin?
I'll sell my couples counselingcoupons for 50 bucks, 40 bucks.
Speaker 1 (15:44):
Actually, that's a.
That's a point.
Yeah, if you do give anythingof value, then people will find
a way to transmute that valueinto whatever, whatever their
substance is or whatever it is.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Yeah, like you would find more video cameras to set
up like even more elaboratestreaming situation, I would.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
I have if you'd had.
If you wanted to do this laterthe day, I have a green screen
set up right over there that Iwas just trying to figure out
how to throw into the mix.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
But so you asked about one of the things were in
the booklet, so here's theinteresting thing so.
So there's a little bit thatthere is a reason why I think
this didn't exist and why now,in the last 20 years, it would
be possible to make this book.
And the reason why is evidencebased medicine and especially
(16:36):
evidence based psychology, whichmeans evidence based marital,
marital sort of the waymarriages should work right or
do generally work well.
Not that they shouldnecessarily work that way, but
they do, based on the data thatthe good marriages work a
certain way right.
And so in the past, this wouldhave been completely the realm
(16:57):
of your favorite thing.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
Religion.
Speaker 2 (17:01):
Yeah, religion would have stepped up and said well,
you can't listen to the statetelling you how to be married.
That is God's.
You know.
God has put you together.
God can put you apart and Scott, god, god, come talk to the
priest or the, whatever, the, orsomething.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
I'm familiar with how that couple scouts will go the
husband and wife have a conflictand then the priest says well,
the husband is the boss of thefamily, so do what the husband
says.
Wow this is really cool.
Bye guys.
Speaker 2 (17:32):
And the guy's like this is a great religion.
Guys like I dig this, this ispretty cool.
Speaker 1 (17:38):
The wife's like great , I'm glad I'm stuck in this
sweet cool yeah, no, I don'tknow.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
And if you, and if you get divorced you're shunned
completely out of there, yourwhole community and therefore
yeah, yeah.
No, so that's not good, and Imean okay.
But I will say something though, which is that, on the data,
even now, where you can getdivorced in most places without
you know too much, I mean it'sbad but you can.
(18:06):
You know there's no faultdivorce.
Now, people who are religiousall have a lower divorce rate.
It's a.
The rate of divorce doesn'tmean they all don't get divorced
, they do.
Some still get divorced, butit's a much lower rate.
Right, and the interesting thingis it's all religious people,
it's not one, it's not like onereligion does it and another
(18:28):
religion doesn't.
They all have a lower divorcerate, which, which the
interesting thing is, I did alittle bit of research, the
reason why this may be or whatthe thing that's common between
all the religions is almostevery religion requires you to
meet with the priest or thepresident or the master
cathedral or the rabbi or yourminister, like three times or
(18:52):
five times before you getmarried, or even take like a
class with other people who areabout to get married and the.
It's very easy content and evensort of a valuable thing that's
(19:12):
kind of prompted for you andbase it on science instead of
basing it on the differentreligious.
You know things.
Speaker 1 (19:20):
Do you think when you're saying, like the
percentages of marriages staytogether versus split up, do you
think that's an actualreflection of the percentages of
people who are happy in theirmarriages versus not happy in
their marriages?
Do you think it's actuallyhigher in religion or do you
think that what I'm seeing isthere could be at play the
reason that there's less divorceis because of a more of a guilt
(19:43):
or judgmental it's.
In religion it may be seen asmore of a moral failing to get a
divorce and not seem like thatas much outside of religion.
I think that could stop somepeople who would otherwise get
divorced in in a completelycontrolled versus, you know,
like experiment situation.
I feel like I don't know thatyou're, I don't know that it's
(20:05):
just one variable, right.
Like I feel like there's a bigpart of it that's guilt and like
we would get divorced but Ican't because God would be mad
at us, right?
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Hmm, yeah, I mean I can't, you can't spear into
their heads.
But so the I mean at thestatistical level, you don't
know what happens Like you don'tknow what happens inside the
box.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
You just know what happens at the edge of the box.
They just don't get sure theydon't get so.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
Yeah, very, very likely, but I have a theory only
happy yeah.
So well, I'm not saying they'rehaving marriages necessarily,
but what I'm saying is they allhave this in common and I and I
know from from both the datawhich is that couples counseling
isn't a waste of time.
It helps people stay togetherand premarital counseling is
does help make marriagesstronger and more likely to be
(20:53):
resilient.
Okay, the fact that the entirepopulation of people, not just
religious, like, oh, they have areligious heart, oh, they like,
they, like you know they'reChristian or something, but they
never go to church, butactually people who are in in a
church and part of thatcommunity and to get married in
that community, the priests orthe, the minister says you have,
(21:13):
in order to be married here andhave me be the certain the
minister, you have to do thisprogram where you meet with me
or you go to this class.
That itself is premaritalcounseling and so and so it's it
.
Just, it makes sense that thenthe numbers would be better
without, without even peoplejust sort of being like forced
in some sort of course of way orpsychologically, course of way,
(21:35):
for it to be better.
And I'm not even proposing, oh,we should do it in a religious
way.
No, all I'm saying is providethat programming for free for
people through the state, andhave it be based on science so
everything can be cited, likethe last page of the book can be
like citations to the sciencethat said that that explains
this Right.
(21:56):
Okay, so it's not like God or Idon't know.
Even tradition.
I mean, a lot of this might goagainst tradition, you know.
So, like one page of the bookcould be like queer marriages
and like, say, a bunch of likeevidence based stuff about how
queer marriages are, liketotally fine and obviously, and
like work and like, and I don'tknow, I'm not it, I don't know
about queer marriages.
(22:16):
I'm sure there's like somedifferences though, too, you can
include them evidence based,like, hey, here's what the thing
, you know, here's some thingsyou might end, you know, you
might want to whatever thingabout, but it's probably that
there is no difference.
I mean, that's probably whatthe data finds.
I assume, okay, here's okay,key thing, key thing.
This is what the evidence.
Because I took a whole, I took awhole, I took a whole
(22:38):
psychology class and we talkedabout this for about half the
class.
So the main thing is like, themain thing is attachment theory.
That's like the key thing,that's like it, that's how
that's basically what marriageis is you're attaching yourself
to another person emotionallyand so you use attachment, which
is like a whole sort of suiteof emotional sort of grooves
(23:03):
that you have in your in yourpsyche, your psyche, that were
kind of put there by, like yourmom and your dad and like other
other attachment experiences youhad throughout your life and
then and then.
So if you know about attachmentand what it does, why, why it
does the way it does, and thenwhat your sort of comfort level
is, then you can be in amarriage much better than then
(23:23):
if you don't know any of thatand everything's just kind of
coming at you right there yeah.
So, and then that ties into coregulating emotions, which is
basically the main goal ofattachment, which is like to co
regulate emotions, so whensomeone feels bad, then the
other person can like supportthem, you know, so that they're
(23:44):
regular, that they can feel lessbad because the other person's
there to share in that emotion,right, and so that's basically
why I mean, that's basicallywhat people do.
It's like, what kinship is,it's what otherwise we would all
just be, you know, cyborgsliving in, you know, our own
individual units, not needinganyone else, right, right, but
people don't know this, peopledon't know this.
(24:04):
You know, some people mightthink that their partner should
feel everything they're feeling.
That's actually not coregulation, that's just.
That's just like you know.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I don't know some weird expectation that yeah, two
people being one being yeahexactly, which isn't what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:27):
Or, and then another partner might think, man, you
know, he's so sensitive, he's soemotional.
Obviously, it might go theother way, you know.
The guy might say she's soemotional, so sensitive, gosh,
can she just pull herselftogether?
And it's like you don'tfreaking, get it, dude, like
this is marriage.
What you signed up for is coregulation of emotions.
You know, like this is what yousigned up for and so that's
(24:51):
like a simple.
Those are like simple things,totally evidence based, simple
things.
Okay, it would actually be abig improvement on what the
religious people are teaching.
I'm sure, I mean, although Ithink they're probably teaching
a light sort of sprinkledversion of this, with, like God
over the top.
You know yeah.
So those are two things.
Another thing you could do isyou could just teach people how
(25:12):
to like, how to fighteffectively, like with non
violent communication.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Oh, and that's this, and that's so simple.
I got excited for a second.
I thought, okay, how to fightin a different way?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Yeah, you're saying it doesn't hurt any in a healthy
way.
Right, I've had some yeah thisagreements, yeah like don't do
this, do this.
Speaker 1 (25:32):
Instead, say an easy one, like say I state it's not
you.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, exactly, you know.
And use them, use emotionallyfocused language.
I feel this way when you saythat so, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
So, instead of saying you are wrong, yeah, I am right
.
That's how.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
I do that.
That's right.
I feel right when I say this I,you know who, you know who
would be against this thing istherapists, because I don't
actually think.
I don't actually think it'sthat hard actually.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
There, you don't think, therapies that are no no,
no, I think marriage is like tomarriage.
Is that hard?
I don't think it's like whatpeople make it out to be.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I think marriage is easier than people think.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
How long have you been?
Speaker 2 (26:15):
married.
I was married for five or fouryears, then got divorced and now
buried again for almost a year.
Okay, yeah, so two, twodifferent marriages, and I think
I think it's easier than peoplethink.
People just don't tell you howto do it.
It's like.
It's like if you were like likesailing, sailing if you got on
(26:35):
a boat you could literally dieif you didn't know how to do it.
But if someone gives you likefive or six sailing lessons,
you're going to be a prettycompetent sailor.
You won't be the best sailor inthe world, like you, won't be
able to, like you know, crossthe right, you know the Atlantic
, but you're like you can, youknow.
You know the boat and theboat's fun, everyone's safe.
You're going to, you know, wearyour life jacket, you know
hasn't, dr Phil, but if you, butif you didn't take any sailing
(26:58):
lessons and they were just likego out in the sailboat.
That boat is going over capsize.
And there's like you're goingdown no, no, life jacket.
You're like that's what I think.
It's like it's high stakes, butit's not actually that hard of
people.
Someone teaches you how to doit.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Hasn't Dr Phil made an entire career on telling
people how to do marriage?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Dr Phil made it makes a career on fear.
That man is one of the worst,most horrible.
No, what?
Just shock.
He's a succubus.
He's a succubus, that's what heis, you know a succubus.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah, the succubus is a demon.
Speaker 2 (27:36):
I don't think you're using that correctly.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah, no, no, I am, no, I am yeah.
Succubus, oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
They are no.
An incubus, oh no.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
One of them.
One of them.
One of them sits on your chest.
Both of them are asexual, so Idon't think you're using either
one wreck.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
In a way oh no, okay.
Sexual intercourse of thesleeping sleeping moment.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
That's not what I mean.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
I thought a succubus, there is a monster that sits on
your chest and, like, absorbsfear.
He's a dementor, he's adementor.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
A dementor what, what ?
I don't think there wasanything sexual about the
dementors.
He's like a fear demon.
Speaker 2 (28:12):
That's what he is.
He just gets more.
He's so large too, and his headis so big, but his eyes stay
close together as his head grows.
His eyes stay like one inchapart.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
And he just absorbs the dark.
Speaker 2 (28:25):
Yeah, the dark, the dark fear of America.
He just beads on it like afreaking vampire.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
Yeah, I mean that's he's evil.
That's the T, that's theplaybook of every like TV TV
psychoanalyst Right.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
I mean, that's every single one, so it's
psychoanalyst, yeah.
Speaker 1 (28:45):
What are you going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I mean, he's just, he's, he's, he boils down to it.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
A really super ethical smart doctor man is or
woman or an, or woman or anybody, but no, a super smart doctor
is going to not like diagnosepeople in public on TV with
cameras and think that this isthe A number one healthiest way
to go about doing things.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (29:09):
Like can't possibly think that in a reality.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
I mean he's building the neurosis.
He's like he's basicallypromoting neurotic neuroticism
and neuroses and mental illnessin his audience by doing what
he's doing.
He's evil, he's so evil.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
He's generating wealth by creating spectacle.
I mean, he's doing the samething that I don't care about.
I don't care about generatingwealth.
Speaker 2 (29:29):
Anyone can create spectacles and generate wealth
as much as they want.
My my thing is I think theAmerican Academy of
Psychiatrists and psychologistsshould fricking condemn him for
being like he's.
He's promoting neurosis.
Everyone who watches gets moreneurotic from watching him.
They don't get less neuroticbecause at the end they're like
(29:50):
I'm terrified of this andterrified of that and scared of
this, and maybe this is theproblem.
And now I have anxiety becauseI have all these terrifying
things that are planted in mykey.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
You're saying he's like the therapist version of
searching on WebMD, where youstart by like I think I have a
hang nail and you end withyou're like well, I have the
plague, it turns out.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Turns out.
These are the symptoms and Idefinitely have them Exactly.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Yeah, I want, I listen to him.
He's an absolute wordsmith inthe most evil way.
I listened to him on Bill Mayeror whatever, which I it's a
guilty pleasure to what he's,Bill Mayer, so stupid, but I
kind of I like.
I like the goofy things that hesays Bill.
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Marr, what's his, what's his show called?
Speaker 2 (30:27):
now Real Time.
Oh, okay, real Time with BillMarr, but anyways, he was on
there and he said the mostmessed up weird stuff about like
mass shooters wanting to be nothaving enough sex, and it was
like what the hell is this guytalking about?
(30:48):
Oh my god, and it was all meantto know.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
If there's one thing I don't understand, it's the
mind of a mass shooter.
Yeah, listen to me when I tellyou that they're just horny he
was like boys, have to betreated like boys and if they're
not well.
Speaker 2 (31:07):
That's why you see mass shooters and I was like,
who is this guy?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
like all right now, I'm gonna go out on a ledge and
say that this teenage boy washorny.
All right now, follow with me.
If you're able to, all right,if you're able to make that leap
with me, it makes me wonderabout like what, what can't do?
Speaker 2 (31:24):
we have a way in society, it's, I guess it's like
the dangers of freedom ofspeech, right?
Is that?
If someone just is a horriblemonster but they say things that
are sort of whatever, like theyhad this sort of platform, they
, you just can't stop them, evenif they're hurting people.
It's so weird, I meancharismatic nidnicks.
Speaker 1 (31:49):
Getting an audience has been a long time thing right
, I mean that's America.
I mean I was gonna say sincethey invented microphones, but
before that it was peoplestanding out in the quad or
whatever the public forum andshouting into megaphones.
And then, like you know, andthat's where some of the, you
know, the, the originalphilosophers, I'm sure, back in
ancient Greece, the, the smartones, were sitting there and
(32:12):
there were some people crowdedaround the dum-dums and they
were like why are they goingaround?
I'm Plato, what's going on?
Why are they over there nearthat dude?
Speaker 2 (32:20):
like what's going on over here.
You know, I I think it's justbeen a problem forever, I think
it's just a human thing.
I wonder.
I know I know people who arelike free free speech.
You know, really radicalabsolutists are not gonna like
this.
But if you could prove which Ithink you definitely could that
his content actually makesmental illness.
(32:44):
So now we're talking about nowwe're talking about illness,
right?
So if you could say, right,let's take a thought, let's take
500 people, or you know asignificant sample size of
people, test them for what theirlevel of anxiety is, you know,
and then and then have themlisten to like two hours
straight of like dr Phil content, just random any dr Phil
(33:04):
content, and then test theiranxiety level after and show the
dr Phil, okay, increase theiranxiety level.
And then bring them in threeweeks later and see if it's
persistent, see if it likepersistently made them more
anxious or more whatever kind ofmental illness.
Okay then, okay.
So the limits on free speechthat are constitutional and that
even free speech absolutistsgenerally agree to is the
(33:27):
classic, you know this yellingfire in a building, yelling fire
in a crowded room, that'sthat's
the.
That's so.
If the speech represents aclear and present danger to the
people who hear it, then you canlimit speech and you can do it
fully constitutionally.
Yeah, you can prove that drPhil literally makes people ill
(33:51):
in their brain.
Just like.
If, just like you were clubbingsomeone in the knee, you're
making them ill in their body,then you could say this guy
cannot be on the air, like hemust be shut up, not because we
don't agree with what he'ssaying politically or this or
that, but for medical reasonsnot that I love dr Phil, but
(34:11):
that feels like a flawedexperiment.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
that seems like the same as the the.
Cia when they put the giantmega speakers playing heavy
metal, it you know for hours andhours being like.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
I guess heavy metal is that you listen, people watch
Tim Phil, dr Phil's show andyou binge it.
Speaker 1 (34:27):
you can watch three episodes if you watched 24 hours
of horror.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
I said two hours I said, two hours of doctor if you
watched a bunch of horrormovies and then you'd be like.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
It turns out, their nightmares increase if they do
that every day, like okay, somaybe don't do it every day a
little bit.
Sometimes some stuff,moderation, but I don't know I
got.
I'm not in favor of but youhave nightmares.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
That's not.
That's not mental illness,that's just nightmares, right
you know I'm so.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
I mean there are tests for me at talk, but I mean
, no, don't let the man I thinkhe needs to be shut up.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I think I need to shut up.
I honestly think so because,because, and I think it's like
yelling fire.
It's yelling fire if you could,if you spoke.
It's like Mary.
It's like Mary, typhoid Mary.
You know, typhoid Mary, I doknow typhoid Mary yeah, it's
like typhoid Mary.
She can't be allowed to makeice cream for people anymore,
(35:19):
like she just can't she haspeople who don't know.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
She's a person who had typhoid but didn't have
symptoms, but she was giving itto other people left and right
she and she worked in kitchen.
Put in here make yeah, theylocked her away even though she
didn't she wasn't sick.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah they initially locked her away, and I think
they did actually fully lock heraway later.
Yeah, but yeah, she got out afew times to like she.
They would like try to put heraway, and then she'd be like I'm
not.
I'm not sick, I don't havetyphoid yeah she's.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
I mean.
You know, every so often achild would look at a mirror,
say her name three times andthen, boom, she's out again.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
You're like we gotta go get married again I I think
I'm not saying he can't have ajob, be a person like he
shouldn't go to jail, but heshould not be allowed on the
airwaves like this.
Freedom, the freedom of speech,is not the freedom of reach.
Right, the freedom of speech isnot the freedom of reach.
You're not a little, it's not.
Speaker 1 (36:12):
so what job would you get?
Like this is becoming a drPhilip, so, but what?
What job?
Would you give him instead,because if you can't talk about
what I, mean that is his job, isdoing what you don't want him
to do, so what?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
he can, he can.
He's a trained therapist.
He can just be a therapist.
Okay, I think he can also.
I don't even think he should beallowed to write books, though,
either.
His books are the same shit,it's the same shit.
You could prove the same shitfor his books.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
Let's burn the books.
What?
Oh, yes, but okay.
So you're advocating for bookburning and for non-free speech?
I got this.
No, no, this is free of speech.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
This is.
This is freedom of speech,absolutism.
Don't yell fire in a crowd ofdon't don't do things that lead
to a direct harm to the peoplewho hear it right.
Speaker 1 (36:57):
I, quite yelling, fired out of crowded theater to
tie fire in a book.
No, no, this is shelf no, no,this is.
Speaker 2 (37:03):
This is you.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna make anaccusation, this is you falling
into the old thing which iswe're trying to leave behind by
treating mental illness as lessthan physical illness.
That's what you're doing rightnow.
You're saying, if he walkedaround, if everyone who heard
him, you know, got, you know,clubbed in the knee and I
couldn't walk, then you'd belike, well, he can't speak, he's
(37:25):
literally killing, he's hurtingeveryone, right, because when
he speaks there's violence,right, but I'm saying mental
illness is one to one, equal tophysical illness and therefore
if he's causing mental illness,he also needs to be stopped.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
He should be put in prison for assault.
Is that what you're sayingright now?
Well, maybe.
Speaker 2 (37:45):
Yeah, well, if you yell, if you yell fire in a
crowded building, you could puthim prison.
Right, if someone fit, theyfigure out who do they?
Think so.
I think yeah, yeah, yeah, youheard everybody.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, you're a vandal I think if someone dies in like
a stampede on the way out andyou caused it, then you get
nailed with that.
But I think if you just like ifeverybody went out orderly and
they just missed the second halfof Dune, you wouldn't like
you're still locked away, you'retrouble, you're not going away
and no, no, you're not.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, no anyways, I just think people,
people were.
We live in this time where allthese free speech absolutists
who act like it can really belike a free, a free for all yeah
, free speeches.
Free speech is not as a freefor all as people think.
There's absolutely the noyelling and you know no yelling
fire in a clouded building thatthat is an absolute.
Even free speech.
Speaker 1 (38:33):
Absolutists agree and there's no, no dr Phil talking
or writing, that's the otherSupreme Court case.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
Yes, phil V.
Speaker 1 (38:42):
Phil V, the people, the McGraw yeah, the people.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
V McGraw, that's a good one.
Okay, we don't talk about myrefill anymore yeah, we're
talking about marriage so sofree, free, pro bono marriage
counseling and a marriagebooklet to strengthen marriages.
And remember, this is notreligious and it's not right
wing, it's not demoting the, theprestige or the status of women
.
This is just supportingmarriages so that marriages can
(39:08):
and it can succeed.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
I love that.
I love the coupons forcounseling to have that resource
available.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
I really do and I have to say I got that from
Andrew Yang.
He said that on the campaigntrail when he was running for
president.
It's hard.
I love it really.
Yeah, it's a good one, allright.
So what are other two?
Just just like other pages of?
Speaker 1 (39:27):
the book how to fight , you know yeah how to split up,
to do the division of laborright.
Would that be?
Speaker 2 (39:37):
one yeah, maybe I mean finances should be a
finance is a huge thing yeah, orI think you could, or I think
you could give people likeoptions.
You could be like here's one wayto do your finances.
You know everything combinedand here's how you pay into it
and here's how you pay out of itand here's how you deal with
differences of opinion.
Another way could be what I,what I, what I recommend, which
(39:58):
maybe this is like a sort of subsolution in itself, which is
the proportional method, whereeach person can make more or
less money but the people payinto group you know, group
financial decisions,proportionally based on their
after-tax income, and then andthen and then.
That that's nice, because thenif someone's much richer,
(40:20):
wealthier, like they have ahigher earning power, you can do
really nice things till you cango on like expensive vacations,
whatever, because the personwho makes much less only pays
like whatever one tenth or onethird or one, one quarter or one
fifth or at least you know,depending on their proportional
income.
So you can still go doexpensive things, but the person
who makes less money can stillfeel like I'm contributing
(40:40):
exactly like equitably to thisthing.
So I'm an equal with you andwe're, you know, we're you're
not having some outsized powerin the marriage because we agree
to this proportional what about?
Speaker 1 (40:51):
I think that's really a good way to do it what about
a page that's like things to beon the same page up like
important, big topic?
Speaker 2 (40:59):
you know big-tent topics like yeah, kids, kids,
yeah, yeah, how do?
Speaker 1 (41:06):
you feel about.
You know these, these certainissues that are right, that are
common.
I guess there's probably datayou're an evidence guy, so
there's definitely data on, likedifferent issues that people
fight over the most.
I think money is always numberone, but you know like there are
other things like that are justimportant issues to be like.
Hey, you may have already hadthese conversations, you may
(41:29):
already know you're on the samepage, but just in case, here's a
list of topics that like kindof come up in people's things.
Maybe you know, broach thesethings and see if you guys are
how you feel about it.
Make sure you guys are on thesame thing, because otherwise
it's like a ticking time bombfor later.
Speaker 2 (41:46):
Yeah, and then even, and then right in, like, right
like, couching that section, youcan give them like
evidence-based, provenstrategies for how people who
are on different pages get ontothe same page right Like sit
down, like it could be like alittle exercise.
Sit down and write 10 things oflike why you care about this,
and now find things that youboth have the same why's.
(42:09):
Even though you end up atdifferent conclusions, you might
have a lot of the same why's.
Oh okay, we're actually.
You know right, that could beanother part of the marriage
booklet which is called, whichis similarity.
People who, people who believethey're similar to one another,
stay more in love with eachother.
(42:32):
If people like eat.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Yeah, this is similar to each other's.
What happened to the Paul Abdulopposite to attract?
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Well, that's attraction.
Attraction is different thanlove, than than intimacy,
staying together.
Yeah, well, intimacy.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
Yeah so attraction.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
you might be attracted by the mystery or the
way you know they can dosomething that you admire, that
you can't do, or somethingthat's just like an opposite,
and your complementarity mightkind of attract you.
But at the end of the day, whatdo they call it?
When people get divorced?
No contest divorce.
We have irreconcilabledifferences.
That's what they say it's.
The differences are what drivepeople apart.
So if all day long, you arehighlighting to your partner
(43:14):
well, you think that way and Idon't think that way.
I think this other way.
We're different.
In that way you constantlyhighlight the difference.
I mean there's differencesbetween people, but if you
highlight those differences allthe time, you're going to drive
like a feeling of likeseparation, whereas if you're
always emphasizing that you knowthere's ways that you're
similar, then you'll be drivingtogether constantly.
(43:37):
So, in the face of, we have allthese differences, if you focus
on the similarities, you'll dobetter.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Okay, Well yeah, so we got the pages of the thing
delivered.
Would this be an app?
I mean, could it just be an appwith different pages as well?
It seems like there would be adigital version.
Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah, you could publish the digital version, pod
, you know PDF that anybodycould get and download and print
, or.
But then you could just havestacks of these books at the
state house and when people gotmarried by mail and you had to
mail it to them, just slip it inthe mail packet and send it
with them.
So there's all this greatevidence based, evidence based
research just in people's homes.
And, who knows, kids will findthe book and be like, oh my God,
(44:17):
I understand why my parents'marriage sucks so bad.
They're not doing any of thesethings.
You know like.
You know they don't fight thatway.
They fight like animals.
You know they cast dispersionson each other and you know they
emphasize all the things.
Obviously there'd be a page onintimacy.
You know sex.
You know close sexual closeness.
You know physical.
You know, and you could throwin love languages.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
You probably don't want the kids finding this
booklet then.
Speaker 2 (44:43):
No, kids, kids, kids know about sex.
These kids can look at it.
So it's not positions, it's notpictures of positions.
It's like intimacy, emotionalintimacy.
Okay yeah, because that's whatyou know underlies sexual long
term sexual relationship, right.
You could also talk about family, internal family systems.
You could talk about wounds,that people, that people that
(45:05):
your partner has wounds and youhave wounds, and that one
emotional wounds that are likeyou know, that are that they
defend and they protect becausethey're, because there's, you
know they don't feel safesharing that all the time, yeah,
but that those wounds are notbad or debilitating.
They're actually places thatyou can connect, like each of
you can connect over when youfeel comfortable or safe enough
(45:26):
to share that.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
That feels like a lot for a pamphlet, but yeah, I I
was surprised.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
You know, it's like a kid's book.
You can have kids book.
People are really seriousthings.
You used to a similar thing,but yeah, there's just a tons of
stuff in your date, your spouse, right?
Yeah, our spouse, like you know, have special you could call
that date someone else's spouse.
Speaker 1 (45:47):
Don't date other people's spouse, Unless that's
part of your.
You know your thing that youguys agree to, or whatever I
would, I would put oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Okay, I would put a, I would put the date, the lot
you know, I would put the dataaround the chances of things
like that working out likeshould we have an open marriage?
Oh, how many percentage of openmarriage is lead to divorce?
That might be interesting toknow before we decide to do that
.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Probably zero, but no yeah it's near zero.
Speaker 2 (46:14):
But the another thing you could do is I would call
the date, your spouse thing,like just moments, moments, and
say you should have a smallmoment every day, right, and
then you should have a bigmoment, a medium moment, every
week, and then you should have abig moment every month.
(46:34):
What's a small moment?
You know dating a small moment.
A small moment like you know,your wife comes home and you and
you and you, you pull her sideand you sit and you don't know,
one has their phones out and yousit facing each other and you
and you ask them how their daywas and they say it was really
tough and you like, co regulatethat emotion.
You say like, oh, that sucks.
(46:55):
And you don't give any, soobviously no solutions, don't I
like just, oh, that's, that'stough, you know.
And then she goes, ah, and shefeels so much better because her
emotion got, you know, small,but I've seen it, yeah, and it's
a small moment, and she's likeGod, I'm glad I'm married, my
husband's great, this is great.
And then, you know, and viceversa, I, you know, the husband
feels great because the wife,you know, co regulated his
(47:16):
feelings too.
He might say all day long I waswhatever, and now you're here,
thank God, okay, so now, what'sa medium moment?
Once a medium moment might belike, you know, date night or
some kind of thing, where youmaybe go somewhere.
You do something special in thehouse just you, sure, the full
massage, maybe like a sexy timesession, that's special, like
maybe, you know, like a fewcandles or something.
(47:37):
Just make it a little,something a little.
It can't just be like wrote, ithas to be like something a
little special every week, okay.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
And then it's just you a monthly moment.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
Big moment would be, like, you know, like something
where it's extra, extra special,where you really go out of your
way to do something.
Each of you go out of your wayto do something special.
But yeah, so that would becalled moments.
That would be one page of thebook.
Speaker 1 (48:01):
Okay, I think our books up to about eight pages
long now.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
I know, and we've already covered, like the most
everything you need to do?
I mean the fighting thing inthe attachment theory that's
like, that's it, that's like 90%and the core regulation of
emotions and then the sex stuffand a little bit of money stuff.
I mean that you basically arecovering your basis, you know,
sure, anyway?
So I think California shouldwrite this up.
They should make a secular, asecular, free marital and
(48:27):
marital counseling and couponsnetwork and then a booklet that
is just like the best hits ofabsolute most high impact things
you can do to make marriagesbetter and prevent and prevent,
strengthen marriages.
You know, I think maybe part ofthe book would be like when
things go off the rails, likethere could be a little section
(48:47):
on adultery and like you couldalso tell people the data on
adultery.
I think data helps a lot whatpercentage of marriages struggle
with adultery and whatpercentage of them don't get
divorced.
Make people realize thatthere's like a, there's a world
in which, you know, people makemistakes and they forgive each
other and they're fine.
You know, there's, you know, soyou could, you could.
(49:08):
And there's a world where thereisn't, where the adultery
destroys the marriage.
Right, Sure, but like, forexample, psychologists generally
consider and I've just readthis of various places
psychologists generally consideradultery to be a stress test on
the marriage, not a necessarilyan endpoint, like a really
strong marriage can oftensurvive, but a weaker marriage,
(49:29):
where there's a lot of otherthings that are up in the matter
doesn't always survive.
That's interesting for people toknow.
You know if you wrote that intothe booklet because it's true
like it's, it's an.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
You know, it's what I , what's what I read Turns out,
psychologists engaging inadultery heavily favor
forgiveness for this.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Oh yeah, turns out very overwhelmingly.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
What's the data?
You see the people who are like, not a problem that you look
into their personal life andit's like, oh, there is some
stuff happening.
Oh yeah, there's some bias.
Speaker 2 (49:59):
Do you want to hear?
Do you want to hear the storyon adultery?
Speaker 1 (50:01):
This is almost universally what I read the
story on adultery.
Speaker 2 (50:05):
This is almost universally what I read about
adultery, which is generallyspeaking and this is not
obviously everything isdifferent for everybody, but
generally speaking in, in, inthe data, men, men will commit
adultery to stay in a marriage.
But, women will commit adulteryto get out of a marriage that
seems weird.
(50:26):
Isn't that interesting.
Speaker 1 (50:27):
No, that seems oddly.
Speaker 2 (50:29):
That seems oddly you could say so you can think of it
this way Men are not likethey're not happy in the
marriage because they're notgetting all their needs met.
They're not.
They're not whatever.
They're having problems in themarriage, emotional or sexual,
it doesn't matter Okay.
And then they, and then they,like you know, they meet some
other woman and they're maybemeeting with them, or they're
meeting different women andthey're getting their needs met,
but they're not getting theirneeds met, so they can leave the
(50:51):
marriage.
They're actually getting theirneeds met, so they cannot leave
the marriage.
They're like I can stay in thismarriage as long as I get my
needs met.
Speaker 1 (50:58):
Another way to look at that is they're not good.
Speaker 2 (51:01):
They're like I'm getting my physical.
Speaker 1 (51:03):
I decided to get my physical needs met somewhere
else, because I don't want tounderdo the work of whatever.
The problem is, yeah, it's bad,that's it, that's it, that's it
, that's it, that's it, that'sit.
It seems like you are.
Speaker 2 (51:19):
This is not a good thing.
This is not a good thing.
And then so the trend withwomen.
The trend not always the case,but the trend with women is
they're actually they're doingadultery.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
They're on the way out.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
They're trying to get out of the marriage.
They're like they're likethey're going to then reveal to
their partner or they're justgoing to leave and they're going
to use that new relationship orlike getting you know as a
wedge.
Speaker 1 (51:41):
They see it as more of a door close To get away.
No, no, no, I've done mydecision.
Look, it's already done.
And the person?
Speaker 2 (51:47):
is going to be like.
We'll find that you're done,right, I see.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
But maybe men think it's more like oh no, no, no,
you should overlook this,because I want, I want to do.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
It's bad, no matter what.
I mean.
It's bad, and how you and howyou build back from it is hard
right, because if the woman isout the door, that's bad, but
it's also bad if the man'ssleeping around.
I mean, both are bad, by theway, is there a worse titled
like activity?
Speaker 1 (52:12):
because the idea that it's just adultery seems like
you should be just doing adultthings like.
Speaker 2 (52:18):
But it's one specific thing, it's one specific adult
thing and it's like you don'teven have to be an adult to do
it.
Speaker 1 (52:25):
But I mean, there's just like the idea of, like we
say, adulting now, but it's likethe word adultery is out there.
They're just, like you know,being an adult as in cheating on
your spouse.
The one thing that everyoneknows is synonymous with adulter
ring.
Speaker 2 (52:42):
Yeah.
It's just, that's a very odddriving, being a car paying your
taxes, cheating on your spouse,you know, adult thing.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
I like to go automobile.
Oh, what does that mean?
That's when I kill people withmy automobile.
You're like that's a reallyspecific use of the word
automobile.
Speaker 2 (52:59):
Technically, you are using an automobile, but I think
I guess we also call itcheating, which is funny because
that's also sort of a weirdname for it, because it's like
you're cheating at a game.
That's how you win a gamewithout having to follow the
rules.
So it's almost laudatory, right.
It's almost like praising it,like oh, you're winning, dude,
so long as nobody finds out.
Like that's pretty fucked uptoo, I think.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
but I think that's probably the general feel of it.
It does probably feel likeyou're winning as long as anyone
doesn't find out, that's true.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
And then it all comes crashing down like a house of
cards, just like cheating, oh no.
Speaker 1 (53:31):
So that's the sewing the meme, where it's like sewing
the wind, you're like, hey,this rule is.
You're like reaping the world,like, oh no, what the heck this
sucks.
Speaker 2 (53:41):
Well, listen to you, but quoting the Bible, sewing
the wind, reaping the whirlwind,that's some hardcore.
Speaker 1 (53:47):
It was in a flash comic.
It was in a flash comic, okay.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
Okay, that's what I'm quoting, but anyways, I don't
want people to.
Everyone has opinions aboutthis stuff and you might not
take some dumb podcastersopinion, but no, but I really
like some of those ideas yeah.
Some of the things you couldthrow in there and some
committee of psychologistssanctioned by California would
decide what goes in this thing.
So it wouldn't, you know, therewouldn't be like risky business
, it would all just be the mostbedrock things attachment,
(54:12):
non-biocommunication, you know.
And then of course you includedon't get STDs from your partner
, or here's how to you know,domestic violence.
Speaker 1 (54:19):
It's like a basic first aid kit for a marriage.
Yeah, and why not equip peoplewith that from the outset?
Speaker 2 (54:25):
You know, it, just it does make total sense.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
I love it.
Yeah, okay, all right, thanksfor another banger, adam, and we
got to Banger Banger.
Are we talking about sex?
Or is it Dr Phil too?
Speaker 2 (54:39):
Dr Phil's banging on other people too, I'm sure.
But well.
Well, scott, let me tell youabout how you've been a mass
shooter if you didn't have sexwhen you were a teenager.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
What the hell are you talking about?
The problem is you didn't haveenough girlfriends, son.
Get out there and be a boy.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
And if people won't let you be a boy, that's the
problem of society.
You should demote the status ofwomen.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
He's like one step shy of just like excusing all in
cell behavior.
Yeah exactly, it's kind of whathe's doing.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Yeah, he's like sort of excusing really bad behavior.
So anyways, he's givingeveryone fire.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
He's yelling fire in a building, all right, fine,
freedom of speech for everyoneexcept him.
Sorry, sorry, phil.
Speaker 2 (55:27):
No, that's not what I said.
Speaker 1 (55:28):
Yeah, Damn free speech.
Are you free?
Speaker 2 (55:30):
speech, absolutely.
Oh, we're going to have to do afree speech solution.
I have a lot of opinions onfree speech.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
I would invite Dr Phil on, but he's been muzzled
now by his eyes.
Speaker 2 (55:40):
His eyes are too close by cancel culture Adam
over here, mr.
Cancel culture All right,everybody stay tuned.
Speaker 1 (55:48):
Hopefully next week I'll be allowed to talk on the
podcast with you.
Speaker 2 (55:52):
But now, you're calling down the fire word.
You're ripping the we're goingto reap the whirlwind here with
this one.
Oh, you're going to eat theBible.
Okay, everybody stay, staymarried, stay, you know stay,
stay married and stay climate.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (56:07):
Solymowy all the things, all the things.
Take care, All right, bye, bye.
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