Spill the Wine Episode 11: Chardonnay is the chicken of the vineyard! a visit to Wending Home Estate Vineyards and Winery

In this episode, our host, Andrea Morris, visits with Wending Home Estate winemaker Ron
Giesbrecht, who is well renowned in the Niagara wine making circles. Ron has over 40 years of
experience in the wine business – including research, wine making and teaching as a college
professor. He has a unique approach to wine making and enjoys experimenting with unique
grape varieties. In addition to tasting some award- winning wines, we also laugh a lot and learn
quite a bit about the history of wine both in Niagara and abroad. Fun fact I learned from this
episode: the oldest know winery in the world is in the Republic of Georgia. You’ll also learn why Ron refers to Chardonnay as the chicken of the vineyard. It truly is a fun and educational
episode.

Produced by Lukas Sluzar. Recorded October 2, 2024

Show notes: Wending Home Estate Vineyards & Winery: www.wendinghome.ca

Wines sampled: 2020 Riesling, 202 Wending North (white blend), 202 Chardonnay, 2021 Estate
Gamay, 2020 Pinot Noir, 2019 Cabernet Franc, 2020 Cabernet Franc.

Episode Transcript

Andrea Morris [00:00:00]: Hello, friends. I'm Andrea Morris, and welcome to another episode of Spill the Wine, a podcast about wine, as one might guess. This is about fun wine tasting and also about kinda dispelling some of the myths about wine, like it has to be expensive in order to be enjoyable, and also that wine is pretentious because if you learn enough about it as you have on our episodes, you'll find out that wine is actually a good time. So today, we are here with Ron from Wendingholm Estates, and, we are gonna be having a really great time. Thank you so much for being a part of the podcast today. Oh, thank you, Andrea. And I'm really happy that that you agreed to do this because my first visit to your winery was really enjoyable, and I was really, really surprised by the wines. I don't know what I expected, but they were really unique and really fantastic. (00:00):
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Ron [00:00:52]: Well, thank you. If I can jump in, I think one of the reasons why has to do with sort of a philosophy of winemaking that fits into the pocketbook that both my partner and I have as well, which is all of our effort goes into the wine. And yes as we get a little bit older we're going to be branching out and doing some things, but really our chief focus is about the wine. And I know that wine it's a little bit like horse racing. My friend John Maranissen used to say when I was starting his winery with him in Niagara On The Lake, he, said that because, it attracts people with money. It attracts people that expect affluence. Right? Right. And and often those things go together with a winery. (00:01):
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Ron [00:01:47]: Nothing wrong with that except for the fact that, as you said, you want to bring some demystification to wine and some, a little bit more maybe grassroots, enjoyment and and not so much, of a a retent yeah. A retent to sort of express oneself. Yeah. (00:02):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:14]: And you've been a part of the wine industry for quite some time, though. (00:03):
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Ron [00:02:17]: Oh, I have. I've been it's about forty years now, that I've been in the wine business, and, I mean, I love it. That's why I'm still doing it. And, I've had several different versions of that. I've been a researcher. I've been a winemaker for a long, long time. I've been a college professor, and now here I am starting out again in a little, cottagey kind of winery. (00:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:45]: So how did you come up with the idea? What made you decide, okay. I've worked in the industry for years. I want my own winery. (00:05):
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Ron [00:02:52]: Fun. Right? So as you said, you wanna make wine tasting fun. I wanted to make wine making fun. So if we have, smaller batches that are terroir driven where I'm watching the grapes the whole season long as they're growing, and it's not something that's a spreadsheet. It's in in my head. Right? It it suits me. It suits my the intuitive nature of making wine from a place. So that's really what makes it fun for me. (00:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:03:27]: That's fun then. Yeah. So and you you have quite a few varieties of wine as well. (00:07):
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Ron [00:03:32]: We do. We have 11 different varieties on this farm, and I do venture a field a little bit. So I just told you that I was with my former student, Josh Mitchell, at Hillside Vineyard today looking at some Cabernet Franc and maybe some Petite Verdot, you know, maybe other things in the future too. And, he's got a fantastic vineyard there. I have history there too. That was originally the Chateau gay vineyard for their research purposes. So that Chateau gay is a winery that goes way back in Ontario to, you know, sixties, seventies, and even earlier with some things. And they were one of the wineries along with the Bryte's that brought in a lot of experimental vines and did experimental plantings. (00:08):
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Ron [00:04:22]: And, that site became after it was Jordan and Saint Michel's vineyard sorry, Chateau Gaze Vineyard, it became, Vince Leonard who was right next to my mother-in-law and father in law's place where my wife comes from in Niagara On The Lake. He had two farms, that one and then he bought the one out in Grimsby. And, so I bought, grapes from that farm for Henry of Pelham for years as well. And, so I have a history with that farm, and I like that kind of a connection with the growers, the terroir. In this case, the grower is a former student of mine. The terroir is something that I'm really familiar with from years gone by. My family, through my wife, working with the original grower there. So it there's just so many connections that just make it really (00:09):
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Andrea Morris [00:05:21]: resonate. That's fun. And the it's like kind of the it's the small world of Niagara wine. Right? (00:10):
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Ron [00:05:26]: Yeah. (00:11):
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Andrea Morris [00:05:27]: Yeah. Now how long have you had your own winery here? How long has it been over? (00:12):
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Ron [00:05:30]: 2020 was the first real year that we started, and that was a fantastic year in some ways to start because it was just a great vintage. But it was also, of course, the beginning of COVID, and Ying, my partner here, and I, solidified our intent, if you will, as she was finishing her studies with me as I was professor at Niagara College. And at that time it was a week before COVID shut down the college, shut down our courses for temporarily at least until we could go online and kind of rejig, And so it was a a very interesting time. You know, a business plan that is being developed during the beginning of a pandemic isn't something that, you know, you say, alright. I'll I'll just go back to the library and find what other people have done when they've started wineries during a pandemic pandemic. That that doesn't happen. Right? (00:13):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:37]: Now they can cite you. So that's how it all got started? (00:14):
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Ron [00:06:44]: Yeah. Yeah. (00:15):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:44]: So were you already had the grapes planted? Or The (00:16):
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Ron [00:06:47]: grapes were planted. In fact, most of this vineyard was planted in the mid nineteen nineties. And, so the vines are approaching 30 years old, which is great. It's great to have older vines. They make, fruit and therefore wine, which is more concentrated, more even from year to year, more interesting, more nuanced. But on the other hand, there's so many things that have impaired those vines over those thirty years. We live in a very difficult climate for grapevines, and so you'll find some, vineyards in perfect locations that have been managed perfectly that still have a lot of vines missing because winter temperatures get too low or something happens in that regard. And this vineyard is no different, so we're in the process of kind of bringing it back. (00:17):
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Ron [00:07:50]: And, this year was a nice crop, very high quality, and, yet it was, is something that is a lot lighter than normal. As we condition those vines to become even and healthy, we have to reduce the crop first so that the vines build their their root systems, build their trunks and everything up so that the vineyard is more even. (00:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:17]: There's so much agricultural knowledge necessary to be a successful wine winemaker. Right? (00:19):
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Ron [00:08:24]: Oh, for sure. And and Ying, my partner, was new, and that's why she took the course at the college was because, she knew that she wanted to be involved in agriculture, but she didn't really know what the the route to that was going to be for her until she purchased this vineyard. And, at that point she said, well, I guess I better know something about how to do this. (00:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:48]: That'll be a step in the right direction. (00:21):
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Ron [00:08:50]: Yeah. So there may have been a cart for the horse there, but at the same time, she eagerly embraced it and that's why we're here. (00:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:59]: And her influence is definitely a part of your label, isn't it? (00:23):
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Ron [00:09:01]: For sure. So our label is, adorned with a a symbol, a chop, or a logo, which has two, Chinese characters on it, Wen and Ding. So Wen and Ding. And, that came about because I thought of the name Wen Ding home first, then talk to Ying and her husband, Lee. You know, is this gonna be something that might cause a problem with the Chinese language, translations that might not be so complimentary? As happens sometimes. Right? Advertisers and all kinds of businesses have to be aware of that sort of pitfall. And, in fact, it means, aspiring to be the best. Oh. (00:24):
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Ron [00:09:54]: Trying to climb to the top to be the best. (00:25):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:58]: Well, I see you've already won a bunch of awards for your wines, so I think you're on the right path there. (00:26):
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Ron [00:10:02]: Well, that's that's one of the ways that we're trying to, sort of carve out a name for ourselves. Yes. Competitions and awards are a nice little pat on the back, and it helps when, people come in. They just gives them a little bit more confidence to say, oh, I like this wine. When you were talking about coming here at first, you were a little surprised. Right? (00:27):
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Andrea Morris [00:10:30]: Well, we want I knew nothing at all about your winery. (00:28):
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Ron [00:10:34]: Exactly. So we're far off the road where, people are, concerned, you know, are are am I gonna be able to turn around? Is there parking? Is this a house? Is this you know? So it's it's one of those, yes. Please come. Come. Come. And, so we have all of that working, in some ways for us, in some ways against. Being remote and off the road, It's pretty. The pond is here. (00:29):
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Ron [00:11:01]: The yard and surroundings are very nice. It's got a huge potential. But people are a little uncomfortable when they sort of drive in the yard at first and then when they walk in the store. And so something like award winning wines, when they see all of that, it just gives them that little bit more confidence to say, oh, this might be a hidden gem. (00:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:23]: Right. Yeah. I mean, it's not like it it's not like, oh, it's super lush and fabulous, but it's comfortable and and homey, which kinda makes you feel like, oh, I'm, like, I'm sitting I'm in I'm staying in someone's living room almost. (00:31):
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Ron [00:11:37]: Yeah. You know? Just going back to the business plan that I said was developed during COVID for COVID, we had to come up with a business plan which did involve things like, separate sit down tastings with people where you would limit the number of people, where you had distance between. All of that can be done in this kind of a setting, not so much if you're jostling towards a tasting bar and frosting out your glass and saying, can you pour me a little of that Pinot Gris? Right? That's the kind of thing that people got really uncomfortable with during COVID. I wanted something that made people feel comfortable, and that word comfortable is is in the business plan a lot of times. (00:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:12:25]: That's great. Well, I do feel comfortable. Comfortable enough to start tasting some wine. Yeah. So where are we gonna start with, Ron? (00:33):
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Ron [00:12:33]: Well, we're gonna start with, our twenty twenty Riesling, and this is one that I really like for several reasons. One is that it is, from the estate here. Two, the grapes are a clone known as the vice 21 b clone, which wine geeks in the area will know is, something that was brought in from the Mosel in Germany by Herman Weiss, at Vineland Estates and some other wineries and vineyards around here, including Cave Spring. You were there. A lot of their sort of fame and fortune, came about as the result of Riesling, for sure. And, also, this particular clone is one that they planted for the most part, at the in those beginning times. I don't know if they are using other clones now. Perhaps they are, probably. (00:34):
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Ron [00:13:31]: But, certainly, the Vice clone is one that we, on this side of the peninsula, seem to really prefer. And that's because Herman Weiss at Vineland Estates was the one who brought it in. So the growers around this area were the ones that took notice and took advantage of that clone being available. The ones in Niagara On The Lake more so were of, German backgrounds or Austrian backgrounds or whatever that were from a different area. So they generally used a different clone, the Geisenheim clone. And and so some of the differences between, sort of, West Niagara or Bench and Niagara On The Lake Rieslings might just be partly a result of that kind of difference. (00:35):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:22]: And does would that clone also the one that they use, their their weather is slightly different than bench weather. So it may be It (00:36):
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Ron [00:14:29]: is. Oh, of course. The soils, the airflow, the there are a lot of differences. I'm just saying that one of those differences might also be (00:37):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:38]: In the in the clone. Clone itself. Yeah. Well, it's got a a citrusy aroma in that. (00:38):
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Ron [00:14:45]: It's very typical with the vice clone, more, as they age to, so it could go from citrus to more like lemon oil. (00:39):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:57]: I do taste lemon on it. Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. But it's also like, it's almost like like a lemon chiffon kind of pie because it's not that sharpness of a lemon. It's more (00:40):
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Ron [00:15:08]: And the other thing that I love about this particular spot for the Riesling is the soils are a silty clay loam. So silt plays a role there. It's a particulate which is not as fine as clay, but clay clumps and silt doesn't, and not as coarse as sand. And so it allows roots to explore, yet it holds nutrients, and it is, similar to on Thirteenth Street where I grew up for the first few years of my life and my uncle grew peaches there. It's something that I thought, this is just fantastic soil, for these grapes. The aromatics come out, yet there's concentration as well. So it's, yeah, it's floral and aromatic and concentrated. (00:41):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:04]: It's really, really, really nice Riesling. Thank you. Like like a little citrusy, but not overwhelmed. Like I said, kind of I get like a lemon chiffon kind of pie, but almost a little, like, hint peach at the end. (00:42):
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Ron [00:16:19]: Peach is something that a lot of people use to describe that other clone. (00:43):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:23]: Yeah. That clone we shall not name at the moment. (00:44):
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Ron [00:16:28]: No. It's Geisenheim 239, which is a lovely clone as well. (00:45):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:35]: It sounds like a nuclear like a nuclear, like, code. You know, Geisingheimer 2 3 9. (00:46):
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Ron [00:16:42]: It does. It does. That's right. Doctor Strangelove is just around the corner. (00:47):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:48]: Bring me the we're calling for (00:48):
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Ron [00:16:49]: the guys in number 239 now. Bring me the clone. (00:49):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:57]: Well, it's a it that is a really nice Riesling. Now is this one an award winner? (00:50):
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Ron [00:17:02]: It is. This, won, gold at, the Ontario wine awards, and also it was, a a wine that, some wines are given the lieutenant general award or lieutenant governor's award, which is the the queen's rep or the the royal representative in the provincial government. And this was the only white wine that year to win that award. Wow. So there was a few reds, there was one ice wine, and this was the only white. And, so we were quite pleased with that. Yeah. (00:51):
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Andrea Morris [00:17:40]: That's fantastic. Well done. (00:52):
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Ron [00:17:41]: Thank you. (00:53):
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Andrea Morris [00:17:42]: Yeah. I'm like and does that did that, like, make sales go up on that wine then? (00:54):
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Ron [00:17:48]: It did. However, we're new. We're just starting. It put it this way. I will be the first to admit that I am not a marketing genius. Okay? I'm in this because I love to make wine. I love wine, and, Ying is not, you know, a marketer of wine either particularly. So we are finding our way in terms of sales. (00:55):
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Andrea Morris [00:18:19]: Well, let's hope that this podcast helps expose you and your wines to more and more people, and they'll be like, what? That's an award winning Riesling. I'm gonna come and try that. Thanks. Or order it from your website. (00:56):
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Ron [00:18:31]: That's what we're all about is trying to do that. And, now also we've hired some people that are going to be helping us. Bonnie, is really gung ho on working with us, Bonnie Bates. And, so she is is going to be working with both my daughter on social media and also with restaurants. I think that that with restaurants, that is a key entry point for consumers with wines. (00:57):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:02]: Yes. Because they have that familiarity then. They've had it at a restaurant, and they'll wanna come to the winery. (00:58):
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Ron [00:19:07]: And And at a restaurant, you know, what do you do? You often ask the song or the waiter or whoever, you know, what wine would you recommend with this? And that kind of, build of confidence is also something that then, okay, This goes really well. I love the wine. Then what you're saying happens. Right? (00:59):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:30]: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, let's taste another one. Okay. Is this also an award winner? (01:00):
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Ron [00:19:35]: It is. This Surprise. This one didn't win a gold. It won a silver. This is our Wending North. Now the name Wending North is, something that, comes from a very simple division in our vineyard, which is the north side is where all the whites are planted. The south side is where the reds are planted. So as simple as that is, it also seemed to me to be, alright. (01:01):
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Ron [00:20:04]: That sounds kind of nice, partly because it's just a way to differentiate and north and south are are are points on a compass that mean things to people. With wines, often north means cool. (01:02):
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Andrea Morris [00:20:19]: Oh. (01:03):
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Ron [00:20:19]: And south means warm. And so there's an association there. If the reds are from the south, that means They're warm? They're a little warmer. Right? Right. And, so it's it's not anything that's real in terms of the vineyard itself because it's just a driveway going down the middle between them. But It's an illusion. Yeah. I'll pour this one here. (01:04):
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Ron [00:20:45]: So this one is a six variety white blend, and some of the varieties are very different for this region. The first two are Ehrenfelser and Ochsarais. And, those two varieties, Ehrenfelser, a German variety, when we were talking about Geisenheim before, that's where this variety was first crossed and bred. Right? And, so it was a German variety, but it was a crossing of two Alsatian varieties. And, then, Oxeroy is a minor Alsace variety. Pinot Gris, also from Alsace. Gewurztraminer, Alsace. Riesling, Alsace. (01:05):
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Ron [00:21:37]: And at the end, we've got a tiny bit of Chardonnay, which might not be associated with Elsace, but there are minor amounts grown there too. So this is my idea of sort of what an Alsatian blend is or sometimes they're called Adeltspickers in Ontario. Adelsvickers? Adelsvickers. Adelsvickers. Yeah. (01:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:21:58]: I like that. Adelsvickers. (01:07):
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Ron [00:22:01]: Okay. Don't go with what my brother-in-law says about this wine then. He he mixed it up a little bit on purpose and and and one time said, Ron, can you pass me some more of that anal sphincter? (01:08):
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Andrea Morris [00:22:19]: Well, thankfully, it doesn't smell like that. (01:09):
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Ron [00:22:21]: Hey, Josh. Not a bit. No. (01:10):
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Andrea Morris [00:22:26]: See, listener, wine is fun. Lucas is laughing so hard he can hardly breathe. This is great. It's fine not to get it on the biker. It's alright. Wine is fun. (01:11):
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Ron [00:22:40]: So this blend is intended in my on my part from the winemaking perspective to be, yes, of course, a blend that doesn't hearken to any one of those varieties overly. (01:12):
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Andrea Morris [00:22:54]: Although I can pick up a I can pick up the Gewurztraminer because I get that floral that floralness on my tongue. (01:13):
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Ron [00:22:59]: Yeah. (01:14):
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Andrea Morris [00:22:59]: So and so I can pick that up. Aroma wise, it's very, like I think it's very neutral. There's not one thing that's, like, actually punching out at me and going smell citrus or smell anything. It's just kinda like like a pleasant, like (01:15):
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Ron [00:23:15]: I get some, sort of people say white flower in the Yeah. (01:16):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:20]: I was thinking of flower. But yeah. (01:17):
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Ron [00:23:21]: To me, white flower, what do I associate that with in in my world, if you've ever been around an acacia tree in bloom (01:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:31]: Mhmm. (01:19):
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Ron [00:23:31]: That's the kind of just a mild version. (01:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:33]: Just a very mild. Yeah. That's kind of what I was thinking, like, some very light floral thing. But it's it's it's it's very, interesting. It's got I can, like, I can taste a little bit the Gewurztraminer, but I can also taste some of the Riesling now on the second. Mhmm. And (01:21):
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Ron [00:23:51]: And then the the first two, the and. (01:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:55]: I wouldn't know what those (01:23):
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Ron [00:23:57]: And that's almost half of the blend. (01:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:59]: Yeah. (01:25):
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Ron [00:23:59]: Right? (01:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:00]: That's really nice. (01:27):
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Ron [00:24:02]: So I'm looking for a wine many times at (01:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:05]: when they call me in the wine now. (01:29):
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Ron [00:24:08]: Well, we're having the end of Oktoberfest celebration, what, this coming weekend. (01:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:16]: Oh, really? Yeah. Well, there you go. Then I get my schnitzel, but not any anal spritzer. Anal spritzer is naked. (01:31):
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Ron [00:24:27]: So there's no oak with this wine, but I do age it on the sediment. The yeast are amazing, contribution to winemaking, not only because they produce flavors, they produce alcohol, but because when they're done and they settle to the bottom of the tank, they're still not done contributing to the wine. If you leave the wine in contact with that lees or sediment for a longer period of time than just a month or two, yeast cells start to explode. They basically are balloons that have contents. Right? And when that's released into the wine, it changes and improves the texture, makes it softer and broader. And, also, it, makes the aroma something akin to toasty or fresh bread or something like that. And, so if you get in sort of that realm of sensation, that's where it's coming from. For sure, the texture is there in (01:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:35]: the wine. Very soft wine. (01:33):
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Ron [00:25:36]: Yeah. Yeah. (01:34):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:37]: Yeah. It would be really nice with the schnitzel, though. But it's also a nice summertime wine (01:35):
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Ron [00:25:45]: Yeah. (01:36):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:45]: Because it it would just lend itself to, like, just the like, maybe just slightly chilled and a nice hot summer day. (01:37):
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Ron [00:25:52]: I think so too. Yeah. (01:38):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:54]: Yeah. (01:39):
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Ron [00:25:54]: Yeah. I like this with pickerel as well. So our one of our best or walleye pickerel, whatever. So one of our best fish that we have in, you know, the landlocked areas of Ontario (01:40):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:07]: Yeah. (01:41):
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Ron [00:26:08]: Is that fish when it's fresh out of the lake and just sizzling in some, cast iron frying pan. Yeah. (01:42):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:19]: I grew up outside of Cleveland, and Perch was our go to. (01:43):
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Ron [00:26:24]: Okay. Yeah. Yeah. (01:44):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:25]: Yeah. And so that the Perch would be Mhmm. Fantastic. Yeah. Well done. (01:45):
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Ron [00:26:32]: Okay. So, next, I was going to pour our, 2020 Chardonnay. (01:46):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:40]: Oh, that would be great. (01:47):
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Ron [00:26:43]: Okay. (01:48):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:43]: Yeah. And so what year is this Chardonnay? (01:49):
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Ron [00:26:45]: This is 2020 (01:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:46]: as well. Twenty twenty. That's a great year for wine. (01:51):
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Ron [00:26:49]: Yeah. Our 2021 has also done really well. This one won a gold and, top 10 at the Chardonnay du Monde competition in in France. And, so that was this past March, and then a month or two later, we found out that our 2021, had won a double gold at the All Canadian Wine Championships. So both are wonderful Chardonnays. We're just edging into the 2021, but this is, the 2020 still. Very traditional style that we've produced. So that what does that mean? That means that when I harvest, I harvest by hand, and it goes into the press in the same way. (01:52):
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Ron [00:27:36]: So it's not, destemmed or anything before it goes into the press. It goes in as whole clusters. It's important because as a berry is pressed gently from its whole cluster origins, it splits and gives up only the juice from not the outside of the grape where the skin is, not the inside near the center where the seeds are, but that area in between, which is most of the grape and most of the juice. But that's where the best juice is, the best acidity, the best antioxidants that are naturally present in grapes. So all of that for white wine in particular comes from that area of the grape. The only way to get that is to press lightly with whole clusters in the press because if you destem and crush those grapes, what happens is the grapes release all of it in a mix. So all of the stuff from near the skin, all of the stuff from near the seize area in the center, and you end up with perhaps a very nice wine still, but maybe not quite as good as you could have produced if you whole cluster pressed it. (01:53):
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Andrea Morris [00:28:53]: How do you figure that stuff out? (01:54):
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Ron [00:28:56]: A lot of people have worked a long time in this. It's not me. Okay? But I certainly worked with my students, in the ten years that I was at the college and getting them to understand these things. So every time the cross section of a grape came up, there would be moans of students going, oh, not that again. But, eventually, they did get it. Right? That that, there are differences in the juices inside those grapes, and this is how to get them. (01:55):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:29]: Is that unique to just the Chardonnay, or does that Oh, all grapes (01:56):
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Ron [00:29:33]: are like that. With with reds, let's say, you're after something else. You're after what's near the skin, especially. And, so you ferment with the skin. It's a very different process. But with whites, generally, it's it's not universally true, but it's more or less true that the whole cluster pressing of them is important. (01:57):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:55]: What about with the rose? (01:58):
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Ron [00:29:57]: No. There, you're looking for probably a very brief contact with the skin in order to get some of that color. (01:59):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:05]: The color. Yeah. (02:00):
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Ron [00:30:06]: Yeah. And, so it's different with a rose. And a rose as well, you're not interested necessarily in a long aging period. But with, wines that are whole cluster pressed like this, whether it's a Riesling or a Chardonnay or whatever, Pinot Gris, you get more longevity, because the acidity is better from that juice. And like I was saying, the antioxidants, there's something something called glutathione, which is, you know, we use sulfites in winemaking. I do too. But, the glutathione, the natural occurring compound in the grape is about five times stronger in terms of an antioxidant than s o two is. So it's a really important thing to maximize the amount of that that's naturally occurring in your wine. (02:01):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:58]: So this is healthy? Yeah. It's got a really nice nose. I don't it's almost buttery, I think. (02:02):
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Ron [00:31:06]: Well, that's certainly a component of it, that comes through because it's traditionally made, that means also a malolactic fermentation. So there's two main acids in grapes, malic and lac or malic and tartaric. And when you, go through a secondary fermentation with bacteria, not yeast, they will change the malic acid into lactic acid, which is softer and which has buttery to form. Yeah. (02:03):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:33]: Yeah. (02:04):
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Ron [00:31:33]: Yeah. (02:05):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:34]: This, first sip has a little bit of, like, a citrus flavor. (02:06):
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Ron [00:31:41]: That whole process of chardonnay making, I call chardonnay and some of the people in the industry will recall this. I call it the chicken of the vineyard because chicken can be made in so many different ways. It takes on so many different flavors readily and beautifully, and Chardonnay is the same. So you can make a non oak Chardonnay, which is delicious. You can make sparkling wines. You can make, you know, all kinds of different wines with Chardonnay, variations on a theme even within that traditional style, let's say. But, ultimately, they can all be really enjoyable. Mhmm. (02:07):
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Ron [00:32:24]: So chicken of the vineyard. (02:08):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:28]: Cluck cluck. Yep. It's got a nice color to it as well. Is it filtered? Mhmm. Mhmm. And oaked? (02:09):
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Ron [00:32:39]: The oak that I use is, very little new. This has about 20% new oak, and it's the balance is up to eight years old for the oak. Ask how a winery that's brand new has eight year old barrels. Of course, we we buy them in from other wineries. Right? So that has to be taken carefully because you don't wanna bring in bugs from other wineries that are not good, so you have to have a very good source for it. And the kind of oak, it's French oak that I use, a mixture of different Coopers, or makers because every maker will have their own trade in making the barrels more one way or the other, more smoky, more vanilla like, more you know, so it's a very, involved trade for, wine making especially. Up there, you see one of the Coopers, gave me a, sort of a flavor wheel of different flavors and aromas that you get from oak and, all related to the way the barrel is toasted. (02:10):
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Andrea Morris [00:33:59]: I did taste a little vanilla on the back end of this the last Yeah. Yeah. Maybe it was power of suggestion you saying it, but I did actually get that. (02:11):
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Ron [00:34:06]: Mhmm. And a little bit of, I get a little bit of pineapple and apple as well. So there's there's all kinds of nuance that you can find in well made Chardonnays. I love that about Chardonnay. (02:12):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:17]: Yeah. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah. And I find a lot of people find that, like, Chardonnay is, like, the first wine that they drink. (02:13):
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Ron [00:34:25]: And that's fine, because Chardonnay is ubiquitous. Chardonnay is around the world. Right? So, yes, it's the chicken of the vineyard, but chicken is around the world too. Right? Right. And it you know, coming from Australia or South Africa or Chile or California or (02:14):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:47]: New Zealand. Yeah. (02:15):
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Ron [00:34:48]: New Zealand. Or then you you go back to France and even, you know, within that little area of Burgundy, there are so many variations on the theme of Chardonnay that, it's, of course, the ancestral home for the grape, but it's so specifically focused to, you know, this area gives you that little salty briny merceau characteristic. This area gives you more of that flintiness. This area gives you, you know, and and so it's a, (02:16):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:23]: It's a chameleon. (02:17):
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Ron [00:35:24]: It is. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (02:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:27]: Now you can call it the chameleon of the vineyard. (02:19):
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Ron [00:35:29]: Okay. There you go. Thanks. (02:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:32]: No problem. I'm happy to help. Well, your whites are award winning and really, really, really nice. (02:21):
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Ron [00:35:41]: Thank you. Thank you. (02:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:42]: Now we're We're gonna gonna go to the south side of the vineyard. (02:23):
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Ron [00:35:45]: Yeah. We're gonna enter some red territory here, and I'm going to take you to, the Gamay First. I'm gonna get rid of some of these glasses. And our estate Gamay is one that I'm really proud of. (02:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:36:01]: I always find I always think of Gamay as kind of a gateway red. (02:25):
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Ron [00:36:05]: Yeah. For sure. Gamay, because it's lighter in body and texture, it doesn't scare people away with tannins, with overt, you know, heavy oak or things like that. So, yeah, for sure, it's a gateway. This is our 2021. Now one of the things that I like to, talk about with Tasters customers here is vintage variations too. So a lot of times, we do what we did already as we we sit down, we say, oh, 2020. That was a gorgeous vintage. (02:26):
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Ron [00:36:43]: And we discount the vintages like 2021, which as a winemaker, I'll tell you, I don't wanna relive that as a winemaker because it was difficult. It was rainy. It was it required a lot of skill to be able to bring those grapes in sorted in good condition and make good wine with them. But a lot of winemakers, especially with Gamay in 2021, were able to do that, and I think this shows that too. So even vintages that are panned by, you know, the generalizations of the year always have their bright spots. And I think that, 2021 now, I mentioned our Chardonnay, our Pinot Noir, our Gamay. They're all gorgeous from that vintage. (02:27):
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Andrea Morris [00:37:36]: It just requires a little more work. Mhmm. Oh, that's the sound of deliciousness. (02:28):
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Ron [00:37:43]: I've always thought of Gamay as being fresh, but in this case, I've done something different. When I was at Henry of Pelham, I, was made to by my assistant winemaker time, Sandrine Bersier, put some of it in oak and just leave it there, and she said, see what happens to it. And, so we did that. I wasn't much of a fan of oak with Gamay, but we did, and I became a fan (02:29):
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Andrea Morris [00:38:16]: of it. (02:30):
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Ron [00:38:18]: Not new oak for sure, not overt. Almost the older the better as long as the barrels are really sound, meaning not imbued with any kind of bacterial or other kind of infection. Right? Because it softens the wine, it it brings a a roundness to it that isn't that sort of fresh Gamay style, but it certainly is, pleasing, pleasant, I think. (02:31):
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Andrea Morris [00:38:50]: Yeah. It it is very soft on the palate. And I may I maybe that comes from as well-being on this side of Highway 8, you know, with the old lake bed. Mhmm. That because I find that wines on this side always have a softer taste to them. But I get a little bit cranberry in here. (02:32):
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Ron [00:39:11]: Oh, for sure. Cranberry, I get some some cherry as well. (02:33):
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Andrea Morris [00:39:14]: Mhmm. (02:34):
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Ron [00:39:15]: Not sort of the Bing sweet cherry dark (02:35):
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Andrea Morris [00:39:18]: No. A lot of like (02:36):
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Ron [00:39:19]: And not the sour cherry either. It's kind of, you know, the first sweet cherries that come along? Yeah. Something like those. Like a new cherry. Yeah. (02:37):
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Andrea Morris [00:39:28]: Oh, that sounds open for interpretation, doesn't it? (02:38):
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Ron [00:39:32]: So as much as, gamma is you know, this has been an oak for eighteen months. It doesn't show oak. (02:39):
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Andrea Morris [00:39:40]: No. Not at all. (02:40):
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Ron [00:39:42]: And, I like that about it because it's just the other forest floor elements of the of the gamma come out. So what do I mean by forest floor? (02:41):
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Andrea Morris [00:39:55]: Moss? (02:42):
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Ron [00:39:56]: A little bit. If you've ever walked through the forest in fall, like, just in a few weeks' time, when the leaves have fallen and you're kicking the leaves and you're smelling that. (02:43):
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Andrea Morris [00:40:06]: Mhmm. Yeah. And Gamay has always been, I will say, my least favorite red. And I think it's because it's so it a lot of times, it just tends to be so light. Mhmm. And it's not I I when I most of the reds I like are those really meaty Yep. Chewy reds, except for a pinot, which isn't that. When I I'm a big fan of pinot. (02:44):
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Andrea Morris [00:40:28]: But for some reason, Gamay has always been kind of like those, meh. But then I'll open a bottle of Gamay and go, what's my issue? Is this good? (02:45):
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Ron [00:40:36]: I I'm you know, Gamay isn't something that I always reach for, but I need stretches. So not my go to. No. (02:46):
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Andrea Morris [00:40:44]: I mean, I wouldn't go, like, oh, I have a whole I have a whole shelf in my cellar Mhmm. Dedicated to Gamay. That's not (02:47):
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Ron [00:40:50]: Yeah. Yeah. But, I do love it. I've made Gamay professionally since 1985, and so it's it's something that I'm kinda near and dear to as well. (02:48):
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Andrea Morris [00:41:04]: Is this an award winner? (02:49):
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Ron [00:41:06]: Yep. Yeah. This was Well, surprise. At at Decanter, this won a silver. (02:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:41:11]: Oh, okay. Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, it's a nice Camet. Again, not my favorite wine, but it's not up there with, like, Gewurztraminer as in wines I hate. (02:51):
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Ron [00:41:21]: Oh, you don't like Gewurztraminer. Okay. (02:52):
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Andrea Morris [00:41:23]: You know what? I wouldn't say I hate I'm very particular about it. I don't like Dauphurts that have that very floral smell to them and that very floral taste. Yeah. If but there I have found a couple that I did like. So Mhmm. Yeah. Okay. But I'm notorious for being like, don't put that in my wine club. (02:53):
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Andrea Morris [00:41:44]: Okay. But I can see why that would have won awards because it's got, like, that that cranberry sort of little bit of cherry kind of stuff going on with it. It's, it's interesting. (02:54):
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Ron [00:41:56]: When Michael Kramer was here, oh, quite a while ago now, maybe ten years ago, maybe more. Yeah. It would have been more even, for I four c, the celebration Chardonnay celebration. He's a wine writer from The States. He was very popular in Wine Spectator for a while. And, so we had him here as our guest speak, and he, took special note of the fact that, he was tasting Chardonnays here as his official job. But when he was talking to the wineries alone, he said, but you guys gotta do more with Gamay because it's really stunning. The one thing about Gamay, he said, is that it's really not made anywhere else in the world in any kind of sort of reputation that comes from a region for a certain grape, the way, you know, New Zealand now has Sauvignon Blanc, or Argentina has Malbec, or that sort of thing. (02:55):
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Ron [00:43:04]: But he said Gamay doesn't have that other than Beaujolais, yeah, in Switzerland, but nobody tastes Swiss wines outside of Switzerland. Right? (02:56):
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Andrea Morris [00:43:15]: Is there a reason for that? (02:57):
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Ron [00:43:17]: No. They're good. They're good. They just never seem to make it outside of Switzerland. But, Gamay is one that could be a grape for us like that, sort of a signature variety. (02:58):
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Andrea Morris [00:43:31]: So now we're trying your Pinot Noir? (02:59):
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Ron [00:43:33]: Yes. This is our 2020, Questa Vineyard Pinot Noir, and I call it up above because, after living on Thirteenth Street until the age of eight, we lived, across from this vineyard on King Street in, Vineland. And the vineyard wasn't there then, but we always called that up above because it's where I went with the dogs. It's where I went, when I was 12 years old for the whole summer camping up there. It was just that was up above. So that's what I call the wine is or up above Pinot. (03:00):
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Andrea Morris [00:44:12]: That's really nice. (03:01):
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Ron [00:44:13]: This one, a double gold at the all Canadian championships this past spring as well. (03:02):
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Andrea Morris [00:44:18]: I can see why. It it's got I well, immediately, I'm tasting cherries. (03:03):
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Ron [00:44:24]: It's a complex wine. I get cherries for sure too. Yep. And, it's got some lovely spice. (03:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:44:36]: Yeah. I was just gonna say that. (03:05):
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Ron [00:44:39]: Smoked meat kind of thing to me a little bit. (03:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:44:43]: It definitely the spice comes out on the second step. That's why you should always tap at least two sips. You shouldn't take a wine and go, ugh, on the first sip because you really it becomes I find the second and third sips is when it really shows you who it is. (03:07):
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Ron [00:44:57]: You're (03:08):
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Andrea Morris [00:44:58]: I find a little black current maybe on that. (03:09):
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Ron [00:45:00]: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. (03:10):
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Andrea Morris [00:45:01]: Very at the very back of my tongue. (03:11):
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Ron [00:45:04]: You were with Peter Gamble just before now. Right? No. No? You weren't? (03:12):
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Andrea Morris [00:45:10]: No. At Dauvin? No. At Dauvin, I was with Dave and Anne? Nathan. (03:13):
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Ron [00:45:16]: Oh, and (03:14):
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Andrea Morris [00:45:17]: okay. Okay. They spoke of Peter very highly. (03:15):
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Ron [00:45:19]: Alright. Well Yeah. Peter Gamble is a close friend of mine, Anne and Peter. And some years ago now, he had a cache of wines that he brought out for us to taste that were from the Burgundy Producer, Chanson. And Chanson is a producer that has, a reputation, at least at the time, of making, you know, they they were almost mediocre wines when they were released, but they aged beautifully. They aged sort of really elegantly. And so he had these wines when they were about 20 years old. They were from the, the mid nineteen eighties. (03:16):
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Ron [00:46:03]: And, we had them, and they were stellar. And when they were first poured, it's maybe similar to this, you looked in your glass and you thought, well, there's not gonna be much substance there. Or, I wonder how this has aged over twenty years. But it did, and they were wonderful. They were top notch vineyards, but the lasting power of a lightweight wine like Pinot, and still to maintain all of that interest 20 or more later, I think that's something that's special about Pinot, is that it's it's this pressure trove of things that you find as it ages. (03:17):
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Andrea Morris [00:46:53]: Right? Yes. I I I drink this, and I'm thinking of Thanksgiving in Turkey. Mhmm. Because Pinot is my go to for Turkey. I don't know why, but it always has been. (03:18):
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Ron [00:47:05]: Oh, and if we're thinking about the Gamay from before, some people say turkey, but I love the Gamay with a, barbecued, like, a grilled salmon. (03:19):
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Andrea Morris [00:47:17]: Oh, that would be good. (03:20):
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Ron [00:47:18]: Yeah. Yeah. (03:21):
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Andrea Morris [00:47:20]: Yeah. What do you drink your pinot with? (03:22):
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Ron [00:47:23]: Well, what do I drink it with? I drink it with all kinds of things, but my favorite combo has to be duck. (03:23):
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Andrea Morris [00:47:29]: Oh. Yeah. Yeah. That would work. Yeah. I just like I like it like, when I when I do my turkey for American Thanksgiving Mhmm. I do a bourbon honey maple syrup glaze. Wow. (03:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:47:43]: And so the the pinot complements it really nicely because you can't go wrong with anything that has bourbon in it. That's just how I feel. But the Pinot really does (03:25):
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Ron [00:47:54]: it just raised my, expectations. (03:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:47:56]: When I (03:27):
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Ron [00:47:57]: get home, I think I'll have a little nip of some bourbon. Yeah. (03:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:48:01]: Well, there you go. Again, you can't go wrong with bourbon. That was my dad's drink, and Mhmm. Whenever I drink it, I think of him. But this Pinot, honestly, really, really, really nice. What is this retail for? What do you sell this for? $44.95. Really? Of course, I like it because it's expensive. (03:29):
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Ron [00:48:19]: Wait. $42.95. 40 2 90 5. (03:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:48:21]: Well, it just went down in price. (03:31):
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Ron [00:48:25]: Wait for it. (03:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:48:26]: Wait for it. Flash sale. Buy a case. Really, really nice. I can see why it's an award winner because it's really good, and I'm, like, not sharing the rest of this with you because it's really good. (03:33):
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Ron [00:48:37]: Now that is not the state because we don't grow any Pinot here. I'd mentioned where it comes from. (03:34):
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Andrea Morris [00:48:42]: Right. (03:35):
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Ron [00:48:44]: But, next year, we're gonna be planting some. And, I'm also working with some other growers with Pinot Noir. So this year, there's a grower that's actually borders on Dobbin's property, on the bench just below their property to King Street. Oh. And he's got Pinot Noir there, Gary May, and I'm gonna be making, all of these different clones separately. Eventually, we'll probably blend, but, I just wanted to see what they were all like so that when we plant next year, I've got a better idea of what I want. (03:36):
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Andrea Morris [00:49:20]: Gotcha. (03:37):
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Ron [00:49:20]: Yeah. And this is, by the way, all clone seven seven seven. (03:38):
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Andrea Morris [00:49:24]: Oh, another Yeah. Yeah. (03:39):
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Ron [00:49:28]: Oh, I got the wrong Cabernet Franca. We could try this one, but I was gonna go with the twenty twenty. This is the twenty nineteen. Now Oh. We made a little bit of wine as a sort of a beta Why don't we (03:40):
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Andrea Morris [00:49:40]: do both and do them side by side? (03:41):
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Ron [00:49:42]: Okay. (03:42):
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Andrea Morris [00:49:42]: Let's see what the what the Yep. I like side by side tastings like that because it's interesting to see what that other the two years those other two years give you. (03:43):
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Ron [00:49:51]: So on your on this (03:44):
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Andrea Morris [00:49:52]: side, this (03:45):
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Ron [00:49:53]: is the 19. This is the 20. (03:46):
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Andrea Morris [00:49:54]: The 19 is so much darker. (03:47):
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Ron [00:49:57]: Is it? Yeah. I think so. The volume in the glass? (03:48):
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Andrea Morris [00:50:01]: Well, no. I think it is darker. I never taste tobacco, but I can always smell it a little bit on this. It's got, like, leather almost. It's just (03:49):
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Ron [00:50:09]: I get some cocoa as well. Some what? Cocoa. (03:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:50:12]: Oh, cocoa. Oh, wow. That's really nice. (03:51):
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Ron [00:50:17]: Now the 2020 is gonna be, bigger, but the 2019 is a little bit more like Ontario Cabernet Franc. (03:52):
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Andrea Morris [00:50:28]: The twenty twenty seems the twenty twenty seems meteor. (03:53):
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Ron [00:50:31]: Yeah. Yeah. For sure. (03:54):
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Andrea Morris [00:50:32]: It's like it's interesting because the twenty nineteen has a really beautiful aroma, like I said, of all those things, like chocolate and leather and tobacco. (03:55):
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Ron [00:50:39]: Yeah. (03:56):
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Andrea Morris [00:50:40]: But this is more like what I like. The twenty twenty, it's more like it's that chewy, meaty (03:57):
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Ron [00:50:49]: And the twenty twenty doesn't shy away from what Cabernet Franc is. It's not trying to be a Cabernet Sauvignon. No. It's like, hey. Cab Franc. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. (03:58):
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Ron [00:51:00]: Yeah. Don't get me confused. (03:59):
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Andrea Morris [00:51:02]: It's like my puppy knocking you over and going Cab Franc. Really deep, full bodied, and interesting how the difference in that year. Mhmm. Because you would think that, oh, because it's 2019, it's been aged longer. (04:00):
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Ron [00:51:19]: It's not softer. (04:01):
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Andrea Morris [00:51:20]: No. Yeah. It's I find it a little sharper, actually. I find I find the 2020 to be softer. (04:02):
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Ron [00:51:26]: That's more the, the acidity from that vintage. So '19, definitely a higher acidity. (04:03):
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Andrea Morris [00:51:31]: Yeah. Twenty twenty, I think, is my year for that. And you? Twenty twenty twenty twenty for Lucas as well. Yeah. Mhmm. Yeah. And isn't that funny? Because, like, people would think, like, if you if you were new to wine, you would automatically think an older vintage would be (04:04):
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Ron [00:51:50]: better. But vintage to vintage variations. (04:05):
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Andrea Morris [00:51:53]: Exactly. And then and I think it would also maybe depend on where you worked, in in the world because maybe someone else's 2019. (04:06):
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Ron [00:52:03]: Yeah. Yeah. (04:07):
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Andrea Morris [00:52:03]: Yeah. Yeah. (04:08):
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Ron [00:52:03]: Yeah. Absolutely. (04:09):
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Andrea Morris [00:52:04]: Our 2020 was spectacular for weather. Mhmm. But maybe somewhere else, it wasn't so much. (04:10):
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Ron [00:52:09]: Absolutely. For sure. Yeah. I think 2020 in, Chianti wasn't that spectacularly good, or maybe that's just where I was last year. But anyway yeah. Yeah. Yeah. (04:11):
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Andrea Morris [00:52:21]: But the your 2020 is is really great. Really nice. Like, I'm kind of cherry (04:12):
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Ron [00:52:27]: ish Mhmm. (04:13):
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Andrea Morris [00:52:28]: But, like, really good. (04:14):
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Ron [00:52:31]: We've got lots of, of potential in this vineyard, but one of the things about this property and the Cabernet Franc, though, is, we've had to pull out half of that vineyard now, and eventually, it will all have to go. Even though, you know, by rights, a 30 year old vineyard isn't super old. It's just that there are diseases, viruses in this case, that affect the vines that have just kind of gone through that vineyard to the point that now it's okay. It's gonna have to be rejuvenated, replanted, and we're doing that now. We've replanted half of it, probably in a couple of years. We'll do the other half. And, you know, in the meantime, I mentioned Hillside Vineyard. Well, I'm talking to them about some of their Cabernet Franc, which I'm gonna be making this year just to, I don't know, Keep the dream alive? Yeah. (04:15):
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Ron [00:53:32]: Edify my interest and, keep things going, keep interest in Cabernet Franc because Cabernet Franc will be back here for sure. Cabernet Franc because Cabernet Franc will be back here for sure, but and these attest to the fact that it's a great sight. (04:16):
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Andrea Morris [00:53:46]: Do you have a favorite wine to make? (04:17):
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Ron [00:53:48]: Pinot Noir probably. (04:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:53:50]: Yeah. Why so? (04:19):
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Ron [00:53:52]: It's it's the most nuanced. It's the most, some would say challenging, but I find it more just, there's more persnickety bits about making it that you need to figure it out. (04:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:54:10]: Right. It's more of a challenge. Right? (04:21):
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Ron [00:54:12]: Yeah. (04:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:54:12]: Yeah. What's your least favorite wine to make? (04:23):
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Ron [00:54:15]: Least favorite wine to make. (04:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:54:18]: I know you're like a mom going, which which pig do you hate? Which pig do you like the least? You're like, I love them all. (04:25):
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Ron [00:54:23]: Oh, I know. Okay. So one of the grapes that we grow here that has a it's a German red grape and I don't mind the wine at all, Dornfelder. It's very dark, very fleshy in the mouth, higher acidity, very low tannins. But when I make it, I'm always thinking this isn't gonna be that good. This isn't gonna be that good. And I end up blending it. I don't think that I'll ever release a % Dornfelder wine just because it's not good stand alone. (04:26):
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Ron [00:55:01]: So maybe that's fine. (04:27):
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Andrea Morris [00:55:02]: Is that in your your Yeah. It's in the blending south. (04:28):
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Ron [00:55:06]: Yeah. Yeah. So it's 52% Dornfelder, 25% Cabernet Franc, 15% Gamay, and the rest is Lemberger. So these varieties work really well together, But on its own, I wouldn't say that Dornfelder is a standalone grape. It has (04:29):
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Andrea Morris [00:55:29]: It's really cool that you use grapes that I've never heard anyone else in the region talk about. (04:30):
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Ron [00:55:34]: That's what I was basically saddled with but also what piqued my interest about coming here and doing this was that there were grape varieties that I didn't know that much about myself that I wanted to. And, so I'm learning and, you know, hopefully there's more. I don't think that our road to, kind of, perfection and chiseling down the number of grape varieties that we grow is done. I think that there are still more things that we should be trying, not necessarily that we don't take others and say not this, not that, yes this, yes that, But maybe in addition, let's try this. And if it doesn't work, fine. It gets weeded out, but you never know. And one of the things that I'd really like to try for instance is, Zaporavi. That sounds Italian. (04:31):
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Ron [00:56:27]: No. It's, from The Republic Of Georgia. Really? The cradle of winemaking and grape growing in the world. So the oldest known winery, if you wanna call it a winery, where things were made for more than just sort of immediate or family consumption. The oldest known one is from Georgia and a number of them are very old. They're the the tradition there in winemaking is positively ancient, older than Egypt, older than, you know, anywhere else in the world. And, so they use, kvevri, which are the clay containers which they bury in the ground. And they, one of their main grape varieties, although they although they have over a thousand grape varieties native to Georgia. (04:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:57:24]: Wow. Yeah. Really? I would never have thought of that region. Yeah. And and we're not talking about Georgia in The United States. Oh, no. No. No. (04:33):
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Andrea Morris [00:57:31]: We're talking about Georgia (04:34):
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Ron [00:57:33]: The Republic (04:35):
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Andrea Morris [00:57:34]: of Georgia. Yeah. (04:36):
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Ron [00:57:36]: And so the Zaporavi and there's different, of course, clones of it and so on, but that is a grape variety that I brought into Niagara College and we planted it and, I think 10 other grape varieties from Georgia. But unfortunately they were all virused eventually and had to be pulled out as well. However, not before some experimental batches of Zaporavi were made. And it's a standout. In Finger Lakes area, there's a couple of wineries that make Zaporavi. And it's a really interesting grape. Imagine, I don't know, something like, Zinfandel and Syrah. Wow. (04:37):
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Andrea Morris [00:58:29]: Yeah. That's cool. Yeah. I love that you are so like, you're so innovative that you're, like, you know, like like the secret agent of wine. (04:38):
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Ron [00:58:39]: Like, you're 777. (04:39):
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Andrea Morris [00:58:41]: 7 7. But, no, you've got, like, you've got, like, this whole different approach than most other people. And I love that you that you have these varietals that nobody else has, and yet you make these really cool award winning wines. Like, it's it's such a hidden little gem because it's not like it's not like you're going to your traditional winery where you've got, like, you know, this whole beautiful huge tasting room. This is, like, really it's really, like, really cozy and really like you're going into somebody's living room or, like, somebody's, like, garage maybe. Somebody's garage. But it's (04:40):
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Ron [00:59:16]: still We're trying to get away from the garage thing, but the doors are still there. I know. (04:41):
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Andrea Morris [00:59:21]: Yeah. But it's also like, you know what? Like, it's like that shouldn't take away from the quality of the wine. Like, you know, like Right. A lot of places are all smoke and mirrors Yeah. And their wines are crap, but your wines are really good, and you've got this passion and this really inventiveness that I think is really fun. And I love that I love your secret agent code name. (04:42):
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Ron [00:59:43]: Like, I (04:43):
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Andrea Morris [00:59:44]: think it's I just think it's so fun, and I I love that we have all these different kind of things in this area. You know? Yeah. It's like and I think that, like, listener, this is a really fun experience. Like and everybody that I've met that knows you has said that you're, like, this really gem, this gem guy that that has so much knowledge and so much passion, and it really comes through. Like, I just wanna say, like, I'm really, really glad that we came and visited you. Oh, thank you. (04:44):
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Ron [01:00:14]: Thank you very much. (04:45):
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Andrea Morris [01:00:15]: This has been, like, such a fun little trip with you. Like, this is like like, I have been here before, like I said, really enjoyed your wines, but actually sitting and talking with you and learning about all the things that you do and the way your mind works, I think, is really interesting. Uh-oh. Yeah. I mean, and, you know, I think I just this is what this is what I think adds to the fun of wine Yeah. That you have a completely different outlook than most other people I've talked to, but I really like that. I think it's great. (04:46):
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Ron [01:00:45]: Everybody has different outlooks, and and, the conversations that occur around tables with friends that are winemakers and grape growers and so on, for me, are also really fun. Like, this has been great. I enjoy this. As I said before, I'm not a wine marketer. I'm really bad at it. (04:47):
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Andrea Morris [01:01:08]: So if anyone's listening to this podcast and wants to help with marketing for, you know, agent seven seven seven, that would be absolutely fantastic. Well, I really hope that you enjoyed this this, episode of spill the wine. And, honestly, Warren LeBron, this was just a pleasure. Wending Home Estate, really fun place to come, really full of great wines that I'm sure you'll enjoy. And so be sure to visit the show notes for more information. We'll have the website info and, use some photos as well, and you can you can, access that. And don't forget to like and follow Spill the Wine, as well. And, also, if you have any topics that you'd like to discuss, any additional questions that you'd like to know more about, you can always email us at [e-mail]. (04:48):
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Andrea Morris [01:02:02]: That's [e-mail]. So for now, we will say cheers. Cheers. Thanks, Ron, and we'll see you on our next episode. (04:49):
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