October 17, 2024 • 38 mins
Your host, Andrea, SERIOUSLY overuses the word “lovely” in this episode. As a matter of fact, it annoyed her so much, she wanted to redo the episode. However, producer Lukas Sluzar felt there is valuable information in this podcast, so Andrea bit the bullet and allowed it to air. Count the number of times she says lovely, and you could win a prize!! (email your answer to spillthewinepodcast@gmail.com) In this episode, we visit Italian winery Commisso Estates and speak with the owner, Frank. Frank shares his feelings about making wine affordable and delicious (and of course, LOVELY).
Produced by: Lukas Sluzar. Recorded June 12, 2024
Show notes: Commisso Estate Winery: www.commisso.ca
Wines sampled: Sparking Chardonnay (2022), Pinot Gris (2020), Rose, Red blend, Cabernet Sauvignon (2021), Cabernet Franc (2017)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Andrea Morris [00:00:00]:
Hello, friends. Welcome back to spill the wine. I'm Andrea Morris, and, of course, you know that this is a podcast about wine, debunking theories that wine can only be enjoyable if it's expensive, and that you have to know something about wine in order to enjoy it. So we are today very, very lucky to be visiting with Frank from Camiso, which I must say is one of my favorite wineries in the area. So thank you very much, Frank, for having us today. (00:00):
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Frank [00:00:25]: Yes. Thank you for visiting. (00:01):
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Andrea Morris [00:00:27]: Oh, it's always a pleasure. So before we get started well, actually, we are getting started. Why don't you tell me a little bit about Camiso and how you got started? (00:02):
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Frank [00:00:34]: Well, you know, I'm I've been a grocer my whole life. And then a few years ago, we sold our chain of, supermarkets. And, I've always lived on this land. I was born in Toronto, and and my dad moved the family onto the farm here when I was 8 years old. So I I went to school in the area. I grew up in the area. I loved the area. I loved the land. (00:03):
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Frank [00:00:59]: So when, you know, when I had less grocery store responsibilities, my wife and I decided to, make wines and open a a little winery. And now it's growing, and it's it's not as little anymore, but it's still one of the smaller wineries. We grow phenomenal grapes on this land. All the fruit that grows on this land, we're on clay and we are on the top of vine mount, so we get great sunshine. So it doesn't matter whether it's grapes or apples or peaches or plums, the fruit is always very sweet, very flavorful. So, our yield per acre is in the 3 to 4 tonnes per acre, which is less than half of the normal yield. So we're we're focused on quality, producing quality grapes, and then you can make quality wine from those grapes. So we have several vintages, and if you want, we can, talk about them and get right into them. (00:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:07]: Definitely. What year did you first open the winery? (00:05):
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Frank [00:02:09]: We got our license in 2017. And, (00:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:13]: was that a hard process? (00:07):
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Frank [00:02:14]: No. No. No. I got a lot of help from the various government agencies. It, I mean, it takes time. Everything takes time, but it but it went through fine. Yes. Yeah. (00:08):
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Frank [00:02:25]: So, anyway, the, you know, the thing that I believe in is, and I believe this because I've been a merchandiser or retailer my whole life, is quality and affordable. People need to eat, they need to enjoy wine. And so the things that we sell have to be affordable, but but good quality. (00:09):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:48]: Which is awesome because so many people have this misconception that wine can only be great if it's very expensive, or if it's from California, or from, you know, Italy or France. But I think that I know I've tasted your wines, and they are very amazing. So I'm excited to try them with our listeners and to talk about the process and to talk about your favorite wines and and the wines that you think best represent Camuso as a as (00:10):
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Frank [00:03:14]: a winery. When you talk about quality, VQA wines, I will put VQA wines up against wines from all over the world. Australia, Italy, California, France, we have great wines in Ontario. (00:11):
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Andrea Morris [00:03:33]: I think we do as well, Beau. Let's explain for the listener who might not know what VQA means. (00:12):
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Frank [00:03:37]: Well, VQA is a is a quality control process just like many of the other, quality process controls that are, in effect in in France and Europe and so on. So it's Vintner's Quality Alliance is is what it stands for. So the grapes have to be grown under strict, controls. They have to be managed. The wines have to be processed the grapes have to be processed and the wines made according to standards, laid out by VQA. And then before you can sell a bottle, it has to be analyzed by the VQA and LCBO labs to make sure that it's a quality standard that meets the VQA standard. (00:13):
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Andrea Morris [00:04:27]: Now is that for every wine that you sell in your winery, or is that for specifically for wines that you sell Yeah. No. For every wine? (00:14):
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Frank [00:04:34]: Every wine that gets labeled VQA goes through the same process. (00:15):
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Andrea Morris [00:04:38]: Okay. Yeah. I because I at I've at one point, I thought it was only for wines that were sold in the LCBO, which is for the listener who's not from Canada, that's the liquor control board of Ontario. So we have our wines that we have to buy in those stores. (00:16):
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Frank [00:04:53]: No. It's for all VQA wines. They all have to meet the same quality standards. (00:17):
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Andrea Morris [00:04:59]: Gotcha. Well, enough talking about wine, Frank. Let's drink some. Well, tell me start with? (00:18):
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Frank [00:05:05]: You tell me where you want. You wanna start with the bubbly? We have (00:19):
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Andrea Morris [00:05:07]: a wonderful Yeah. Of course. (00:20):
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Frank [00:05:09]: We we have, a wonderful, 2022 Sparkling Chardonnay. Mhmm. And we launched this Chardonnay, with the Eclipse and, we went through quite a few bottles, during the eclipse. So it was a very enjoyable, basically, a whole day. And we we made pasta primavera for no. I'm sorry. Pasta, alio, o alio and olio. So pasta with garlic and olive oil, for our guests together with this wine, and everyone enjoyed it immensely. (00:21):
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Andrea Morris [00:05:49]: Well, I'm going to now taste this amazing wine. Oh, it's delightful. It's just got the bubbles are lovely. It's not too sweet. It can really taste almost the butteriness of the Chardonnay as well. Yes. It's that. Really lovely, lovely sparkly. (00:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:08]: It's my favorite way to start a wine tasting. I must say I'm a sparkly girl. I love my bubbles. Well, (00:23):
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Frank [00:06:15]: we're very proud of this sparkling chardonnay, and and we have a a very affordable price of 24.90 5. (00:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:21]: That's great for a Chardonnay for a bubbly rather. Yes. Because so many are so expensive, like, up into the $40 range. But, again, I love that you your mantra is make it affordable and make it good. Yes. Like, that's absolutely fantastic. (00:25):
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Frank [00:06:34]: It's much easier to enjoy when you're not paying too much for it. (00:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:38]: Well, you know what? You can enjoy it without guilt. Yeah. Like, oh, I don't have to mortgage my house to buy this fabulous sparkling wine. I'm letting Lucas, our producer, have a little taste as well so that he's in on it. (00:27):
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Frank [00:06:50]: So the the next one, would you like to try our pinot gris? (00:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:54]: Oh, of course. (00:29):
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Frank [00:06:54]: We have an acreage of (00:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:56]: This is like I have to say, though, I'm going back to the sparkling. I love it. It's just, like, it's so refreshing, and especially when the weather is really hot like it is today. It's just so I don't know. It just gives you this taste of, like, relaxation in a glass. Yes. Yeah. So There you go. (00:31):
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Andrea Morris [00:07:15]: You can use that. (00:32):
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Frank [00:07:18]: My nephew came and we had a sandwich, last week, and we had a bottle of this, with a sandwich out in our gazebo. It was delightful. (00:33):
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Andrea Morris [00:07:27]: It really is. It's lovely. It's just and and, again, the price point is absolutely fantastic. (00:34):
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Frank [00:07:32]: I'm gonna shift to our rose next. Yay. Okay. So we make a a wonderful rose, which is, combination of, whites with a with a, gamay. (00:35):
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Andrea Morris [00:07:47]: And Do you are you the winemaker here, Frank, or do you have one? (00:36):
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Frank [00:07:50]: I work very closely with a couple of senior winemakers, actually 3, and, each one has a strength in different areas. And, so I enjoy working with those folks. (00:37):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:03]: And, (00:38):
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Frank [00:08:04]: a couple of them are my age, so, they've been around He's 29. So just try that rose and see what you think of that. It's a (00:39):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:14]: really lovely color. It's a very light pink. And how is it, like, how do you get the color in a rose? Often people ask that. Like, is it is it because of the the different grapes, or is it because of skin contact? (00:40):
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Frank [00:08:26]: It's it's the different wines that you blend. You know? In our case, we blend to get our rose. (00:41):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:35]: Smells lovely. Like, a little a little bit of cherry, maybe, I'm thinking, or strawberry. Oh, Frank, you're killing me. This is this is amazing. The taste is like strawberries in my mouth. (00:42):
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Frank [00:08:54]: Yes. (00:43):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:54]: It's like a it's like I just picked strawberries in a field and made them into wine, but it's not sweet. It's just really lovely. (00:44):
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Frank [00:09:02]: We sell this rose all year round, but it's a great summer drink. You know, served, cold, with some fruit or with a light, sandwich. It's it's, (00:45):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:13]: It's wonderful. (00:46):
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Frank [00:09:14]: It's a summer drink. (00:47):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:15]: Yeah. And what was the what was the blend on that again? (00:48):
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Frank [00:09:18]: So so we have Chardonnay there. We have some Vidal, and we have Gamay. (00:49):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:26]: It's interesting because you don't see a lot of Vidal in El Rose. (00:50):
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Frank [00:09:31]: Vidal has a wonderful flavor of its own, and you're tasting some of the Vidal flavor notes in that wine. (00:51):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:37]: It's really fantastic. (00:52):
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Frank [00:09:39]: I think, personally, I think Vidal is underrated. It it makes lovely whites and and lovely blending. You know? It makes lovely blends. (00:53):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:48]: You don't see a lot of people actually having just a plain Vidal, though? (00:54):
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Frank [00:09:51]: No. You have to It's (00:55):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:53]: more of a blend wine? (00:56):
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Frank [00:09:53]: Yeah. You have to brush it up with some Chardonnay, or some, Pinot Gris. (00:57):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:58]: Is that like a German wine of Vidal or no? I mean, it's right. Hybrid. A hybrid. Okay. (00:58):
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Frank [00:10:03]: Yeah. I I think it's, I'm not sure of the background of the Vidal. (00:59):
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Andrea Morris [00:10:08]: I could drink this all day. Well, (01:00):
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Frank [00:10:12]: if you like, we can we can move we can move on to our pinot grif. (01:01):
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Andrea Morris [00:10:16]: I kinda wanna talk about this a little more because I'm enjoying it so much. It's just so lovely. It's like so who comes up with that concept of blending which grapes? Do you just kind of talk about it? (01:02):
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Frank [00:10:26]: Or It's a team. So so we take, we take, several containers of wines that we wanna blend, and we use, measurements. And we say, okay. If we put so much of this and so much of that one, this is a result. And this is put together by our team, and so far, they've done a great job. (01:03):
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Andrea Morris [00:10:47]: Yeah. Then do you like if it if it's not tasting do you put it, like, just do some in a barrel first and then taste it first and go like, do we tweak this? Do we add something? Or do we or do you just let the wine be? (01:04):
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Frank [00:11:00]: Once you've once you've measured it into some beakers and and tasted it, then you go ahead and and make the blend the quantity together that you wanna bottle and go with it. (01:05):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:13]: Yeah. So I see your vats behind us. Do you blend it there first and then barrel it? (01:06):
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Frank [00:11:17]: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Depending on the on the size of the bottling, you use the right tank and, maybe your fill your filtering and prepare it for bottling. (01:07):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:28]: And how long how long do you leave it in a bath before you bought before you decide to (01:08):
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Frank [00:11:32]: The the the depends on the wine. The the rose, you you we don't leave it very long, you know, because it's blended and you we just bottle it. (01:09):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:40]: And you don't you don't, (01:10):
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Frank [00:11:42]: barrel it? No. No. This is not barrel. This is this is a fresh this and, I mean, this allows us to be 1695, which is affordable for What? Yeah. (01:11):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:55]: That's great. See, we're breaking down listener, we're breaking down the barriers that a great wine has to talk to cost a ton of money because this is an absolutely spectacular 1695 Rose. (01:12):
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Frank [00:12:06]: Thank you. (01:13):
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Andrea Morris [00:12:06]: But it's like, honestly, like, I have to walk out of here with a case of that. It's We're we're (01:14):
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Frank [00:12:11]: we're very proud of. (01:15):
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Andrea Morris [00:12:12]: You should be, Frank. It's absolutely lovely. (01:16):
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Frank [00:12:15]: So our our pinot gris is also, wine that we're very proud of. So a couple weeks ago, I I my wife and I were at an event in Toronto at the Chirillo's, culinary academy, and it was a fundraiser for autistic kids. And so I I took some of our 2021, Cabernet Franc and some of this Pinot Gris. And I can tell you it was a sophisticated crowd because it was on the Esplanade, downtown Toronto, and they loved both of the wines. Both of them. This Pinot Gris, we grow the grapes on our acreage at the corner of number 8 Highway in Cherry Avenue, and we have an acreage of Pinot Gris there. And it's, I I think it's some of the nicest pinot gris grown in the area. The land is, you know, the soil is fantastic. (01:17):
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Frank [00:13:13]: The vines, produce amazing pinot gris. And if you like, I'll give you a taste of this one. (01:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:19]: It must get a lot of sun in that area too. (01:19):
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Frank [00:13:21]: Yeah. It's so that, you know, pinot gris is, in my opinion, it's it it has a lot of characteristics but it's it's white, you know, so it has a it's it's a bigger wine. It's a bolder wine. (01:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:39]: It's got a really lovely nose, kind of peachy perry, I think. I know that sounds weird. No. (01:21):
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Frank [00:13:48]: No. No. No. (01:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:49]: But you know what? As I've said to the listeners earlier on our first episode, everyone's palate and everyone's nose is different. So what I smell or taste, you might not smell (01:23):
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Frank [00:13:59]: or taste. (01:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:59]: So it's like and there's nothing there's nothing to, actually feel bad about that. It's just that we're all we're all individuals. (01:25):
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Frank [00:14:07]: The important thing is that you enjoy it because there are wines that you enjoy more than other wines. (01:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:13]: There are some wines I definitely do not like. (01:27):
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Frank [00:14:15]: Yeah. They they meet they they're friendly to your taste buds, your palate, and you just enjoy them. So those are the wines you should drink. (01:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:24]: But it's funny that even, like, you as you some years as you age, I think too, something that you like maybe 10 years ago, you like and you didn't like, you like now. (01:29):
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Frank [00:14:36]: There's that, and it's also the time of day or the mood you're in or the people you're with and the food that you're combining. So there's a a lot of different elements that go into, whether you're going to enjoy that glass of wine. (01:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:50]: And also year by year. I mean Yes. This what year is this? Is this Pinot Gris? (01:31):
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Frank [00:14:55]: Yes. This is our 21. Oh. I'm sorry. 2020. (01:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:58]: Oh, 2020. Lovely year for wine Yeah. Except for COVID. But a 2021 might taste completely different. (01:33):
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Frank [00:15:06]: Our 21 is already bottled. Mhmm. And, I really like it. (01:34):
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Andrea Morris [00:15:10]: This has a really lovely smooth finish. Yes. It's like it tastes like a blanket on the back of my tongue. It's just like it's really it's really comforting almost. And it's like but it's got a really lovely taste to it. Not citrusy, which I find with some Pinot Gris. It's like more like, like I said, kinda I could I kinda taste that little perryappley kind of thing. Yeah. (01:35):
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Frank [00:15:35]: Yeah. Yes. Yes. (01:36):
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Andrea Morris [00:15:37]: Yeah. But it's really it's really nice and warm, but I can imagine that with with a nice light pasta. (01:37):
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Frank [00:15:44]: Save your palate because now we're gonna go to our reds. (01:38):
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Andrea Morris [00:15:49]: So, What's your favorite of all of your wines? (01:39):
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Frank [00:15:52]: I get asked that question all the time, and, honestly, it fluctuates with the time of day, the mood that I'm in, the people I'm with, you know, so and the food. Of course. You know? So so some foods and some, feasts that demand a big heavy red, which we have. And there are others that say, no. I like my entry level, red blend, which we're gonna taste next. (01:40):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:19]: Which would be like with the pizza probably. Right? Yeah. (01:41):
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Frank [00:16:22]: Yeah. Or burgers. Nibbling on some cheese. Yeah. (01:42):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:26]: So doesn't love that? (01:43):
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Frank [00:16:28]: So so our winemaker selection, this is a 2019, and this particular one has, I would say about 50% Pinot Noir in it. It has some Cabernet Franc and, a little bit of, a little bit of Foch. (01:44):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:51]: Oh. (01:45):
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Frank [00:16:52]: And Baccanoire, but small percentages. And, this the thing about this wine that that I'm finding because we have this wine in several supermarkets, and, we also take it out to market to farmers markets in Burlington and Grimsby and so on. And once people taste this at 14:95, then it's an instant sale. Tell me what you think of it. Take a look at the color. Take a look at the Listener, the color (01:46):
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Andrea Morris [00:17:27]: is beautiful. It's like kind of like a I'm trying to see what the it's kind of like a plum, but not really. It's just got and I'm looking at you through the the bottom of it. It's just like a beautiful, beautiful red (01:47):
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Frank [00:17:42]: Yeah. I think that's (01:48):
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Andrea Morris [00:17:44]: with lovely red love lovely legs on it as well. And we already know what legs are if you listen to if you don't, go back and listen to podcast number 1. Oh, it's so warm and inviting. Like, nice cherry finish to it, but not overly heavy. It's kind of a lighter lighter red, which I can see, like, this would be great even in hot weather to sit outside and and sip and have with a pizza, have with a nice a light pasta. (01:49):
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Frank [00:18:15]: Yes. This this wine is one that we are, offering, to the LCBO. (01:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:18:24]: Oh, that's delightful. (01:51):
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Frank [00:18:26]: With the LCBO now, allowing wines into all supermarkets, so we we are putting together a group of wines, you know, in the 15 to $25 range (01:52):
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Andrea Morris [00:18:44]: Yeah. (01:53):
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Frank [00:18:46]: That are great wines that go with foods. And we're really excited about being able to work with, LCBO and, the, the provincial government in terms of getting our wines onto supermarket shelves. So this is one of our big initiatives, and this is one of the wines that we will be, presenting. (01:54):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:08]: Are you allowed to do tastings in supermarkets? (01:55):
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Frank [00:19:10]: Yeah. We do that. (01:56):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:10]: Oh, yeah? Yeah. (01:57):
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Frank [00:19:11]: We partner with Arla Cheese and we so people can have some cheese and wine while they're doing their grocery shopping. And when they taste this wine with a piece of cheese, they love it. (01:58):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:26]: Well, what's not to love? It's just like for the price, it's absolutely stunning. And, I mean, like, I have bought this listener, I have bought this wine. I'm not unfamiliar with it, but year by year, it does (01:59):
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Frank [00:19:41]: change. Yeah. (02:00):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:42]: It's like We try (02:01):
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Frank [00:19:44]: to we try to hit the similar notes, but, you know, the wines that you blend are all slightly different each year. And whether nature, you know, does your thing, and then you have to sort of roll with it. (02:02):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:57]: But today, listener, it happens to be a very, very hot day here in on in, Ontario in the bench land. How does extreme heat affect the grapes? (02:03):
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Frank [00:20:08]: Well, you know, if it's extreme heat for an extended period of time (02:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:20:12]: What's extended? Like, 2 weeks? Yeah. (02:05):
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Frank [00:20:14]: A couple of weeks or something. Then the vines will start to, shut down just like human beings. You gotta get out of that heat. So they start to shut down a bit. But so far, we haven't had that problem, and we hope that we don't get that problem because they will, wake up again and and go back, but you lose that shutdown period, which is not not conducive to high quality grapes. (02:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:20:39]: Is there a way to combat that? No. Not really. No? Not really. You can't, like, when you're I guess you can't shade your whole vineyard. Right? No. Yeah. (02:07):
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Frank [00:20:47]: Like, some people irrigate, aerially, but that's that I don't know how much benefit you get from that. But, you know, I I think that, so far this year, we've had a great we've had a great winter, a great spring. The the vines are are very vigorous, and the the the the clusters have already bloomed. And now they're the berries are formed, so we're we're off to the races. (02:08):
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Andrea Morris [00:21:14]: Does a mild winter help? (02:09):
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Frank [00:21:16]: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You like to have a nice frost to sort of, let them let them go into dormancy nicely, but then you don't need minus fifteens and minus twenties and my you know, they do just fine at 0. (02:10):
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Andrea Morris [00:21:33]: Now your winery is located a little bit higher up than than, most. Do can you do ice wines here, or do you have to be closer to the lake for an ice wine? (02:11):
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Frank [00:21:41]: No. You can do ice wines, here. But we we already have, inventory of ice wines, so we're we're more focusing on everyday wines right now. (02:12):
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Andrea Morris [00:21:54]: Well, I would have to say that every single wine I've tasted so far is absolutely spectacular. So (02:13):
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Frank [00:22:00]: So now (02:14):
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Andrea Morris [00:22:00]: we'll This is fun. (02:15):
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Frank [00:22:03]: If you if you like, we'll move to, bigger wine now, bigger red. This is a Cabernet Sauvignon Mhmm. 2021. And, so so this wine has been barreled aged in new oak barrels for 18 months. It's now been in bottle for, 10 months. And I'd like you to taste this one. This is it's not Cabernet Sauvignon, in my opinion, I like a nice clean Cabernet Sauvignon with that has tannin, that has flavor, and, a good alcohol content. But, some of the Cabernet Sauvignons that come into Ontario, I find are a little bit there's too much complexity there that is I don't think it's part of the grape. (02:16):
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Frank [00:22:56]: I think it's part of the wine making process. But try this one and let me know what you think. (02:17):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:03]: Beautiful color. It's such a deep, deep red. I love the color of a Cabernet Sauvignon to be dark. I I don't know why it just makes me feel like it's gonna be a higher quality. (02:18):
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Frank [00:23:17]: It is a higher quality. It's Cabernet Sauvignon. (02:19):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:19]: Oh my lord. That's a lot of listener, if you could smell this wine, it would smell like heaven. It's it's just very fruit forward and it if you can you should make candles out of this. Because I would love to just light this up and have my whole room smell like this wine. It's absolutely a stunning smell. Here. I'm passing this over to Lucas, my producer, who's shaking his head and yes. Absolutely. (02:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:50]: Oh. (02:21):
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Frank [00:23:52]: So this is the wine that we tasted Oh. At the fundraiser for (02:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:55]: Wow. (02:23):
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Frank [00:23:56]: For autistic kids. (02:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:57]: Here's what I'm just saying. Wow. Yeah. This is so lovely. Full bodied, very grapey, but also, like, just so inviting. Like, I want a steak right now. I'm just telling you. I'd just like a steak. (02:25):
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Frank [00:24:11]: Does it feel like a nice clean wine (02:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:13]: on your garlic? Hug. It feels like wine is hugging me. That's what it feels like to me. It's just like it's just like the taste is so spectacular. The the the the nose on that is beautiful. Everything about it is just, like, so perfect. It just it just literally, it just feels like that wine just gave me a big hug. (02:27):
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Frank [00:24:31]: Oh, that's amazing. (02:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:33]: It's just so beautiful. Yes. And Lucas is giving his thumbs up (02:29):
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Frank [00:24:38]: as well. (02:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:38]: It's just absolutely stunning. I love that we have I feel like I'm so happy that I live in an area that has wines like this at my doorstep. Affordable. Affordable and stunningly stunningly delicious. Like, oh, this Frank, this is lovely. Yeah. So the so this wine I can see why people went nuts over it. This wine (02:31):
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Frank [00:25:03]: paired with some of the foods that we serve here, you know, we have a great flatbread pizza. We have, Italian style rice balls. You know, we we do, sandwiches, we do chili. It just pairs very well with all of our foods. And again and again, affordable foods with affordable wine. (02:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:27]: This is That's this is the wine. This I would expect this wine to be, like, $60 a bottle at, like, if it was, like, a if it was, like, an Italian wine. (02:33):
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Frank [00:25:35]: So this is a 39.95 Shit. Wine. (02:34):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:38]: This is really lovely for that price. Like, I would real literally, I've tasted wines that are at higher price than this that don't taste as great. (02:35):
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Frank [00:25:48]: That's good to hear. (02:36):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:48]: This is fantastic. (02:37):
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Frank [00:25:50]: Thank you. So then now you're all ready to, go into a big wine? (02:38):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:55]: Oh, I'm like, you know, I'm still, like, hugging this one. I don't want it. It's like when my dog cuddles with me in the morning, it's like, I'm so happy with my cuddles that I don't wanna start. (02:39):
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Frank [00:26:07]: You don't wanna put it down. (02:40):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:09]: No. It's like we're still cuddling, Frank. Don't rush me. We're having a moment here with this beautiful wine. And this is the Cabernet Sauvignon. (02:41):
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Frank [00:26:17]: Yes. 2021. (02:42):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:18]: 202021. Yeah. And it's interesting because 2021, a lot of people didn't think was a great year for wine. (02:43):
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Frank [00:26:23]: We were we're very happy with this wine. (02:44):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:25]: It's fant literally, I I agree. It's absolutely stunning. (02:45):
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Frank [00:26:29]: That happens when you have, lower yields. You know, when you keep your yield, to, a light yield, each vine then has the ability to ripen the grapes properly. And so you get a good wine with that. So I'd like you to try our passimento. Uh-huh. We passimento is a word that describes what in Italy is sold as amaroni. Okay? We are not allowed to use that name in Canada because that's a copyrighted name. Like Prosecco. (02:46):
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Frank [00:27:09]: Exactly. Yeah. Now these, are copyrighted names, but the process is the same. (02:47):
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Andrea Morris [00:27:14]: For our listener that doesn't understand doesn't know what a passimento is, what is the process? (02:48):
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Frank [00:27:19]: Okay. So a passimento, you use particular grapes. Some of the grapes that are used in Italy for the Amarone process are grown here in Niagara, but very limited quantities. So so we stick with in in in our particular case, we stick with, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, and Merlot. And and so what we do is we harvest these grapes at their peak of ripeness, before before frost, and we we lay the grapes in little in little baskets, plastic chest baskets. We stack them, and then we force air, over the grapes for a period of time. And then we use a fan and tunnel system, so that the berries dry up. You lose moisture. (02:49):
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Frank [00:28:10]: You the stems dry, and so you you get, you don't get the bitterness from the stems into the wine when you crush them and crush in the stem. And, the seeds ripen. The seeds finish ripening because that sometime green flavor that you get in wine can come from the stems or the seeds. So when they're, done a passamento style, they actually don't adversely affect the flavor in the wine. (02:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:28:46]: Because you've dried that all out? (02:51):
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Frank [00:28:48]: Yeah. The moisture's gone, and the seeds are ripened. And the berries, are more concentrated. So you've, you've you've dried up some of the the liquid, the water in the in in the berries. So the the color of the flavor is more concentrated. So then you process those grapes in a normal way, but you'll have a higher concentration of tannins, of phenolics, and sugar. So you get a little more, alcohol in the wine, higher alcohol level, and higher flavor level. (02:52):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:22]: And that's why I find some opaciamentos I've tried have been a little sweeter than. Is that because of the dryness of the fruit? (02:53):
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Frank [00:29:30]: Yeah. And it's it depends where the winemaker, decides to stop the fermentation. (02:54):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:36]: Oh, okay. (02:55):
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Frank [00:29:37]: You know, some winemakers like their opacimentos to be a little sweeter and some winemakers like it more dry. I I prefer dry. (02:56):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:46]: Yeah. I do as well. I don't like a really sweet appascimentos. (02:57):
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Frank [00:29:48]: Yeah. This one here, (02:58):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:51]: But thank you for that explanation because I knew that was for someone who doesn't understand and goes to a store and goes like, why is a Pacimento so expensive? It's interesting to know the process of why that is. Oh, that that color is so deep and so Uh-huh. (02:59):
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Frank [00:30:08]: It's like between red and black. Well, it's like yeah. (03:00):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:12]: It's like if I was a vampire, that would be a drink of blood. And it smells very sweet. Very cherryish, I think. Like, it smells like it's it's just got a much more sweet smell than an an aroma, I should say. The nose is more. I I'll be snotty now, listener. The the nose is, like, a much sweeter smell than the rest of them. (03:01):
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Frank [00:30:37]: Yeah. So after the placenta, this wine was barrel aged, for 18 months also. (03:02):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:43]: But it's interesting because it smells sweet, but it doesn't taste sweet (03:03):
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Frank [00:30:46]: Yes. (03:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:47]: Which is really great. Like, I like, smelling that, I was thinking this was gonna taste like cherry juice. But it's nice and dry Yes. But very, very, very flavorful. It's lovely. (03:05):
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Frank [00:31:01]: Thank you. (03:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:01]: What a, like, what a what a pleasant surprise because literally, I have smelled so many, like, appacimentos that it smelled so sweet, and then I've been like, I thought my teeth would fall out. (03:07):
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Frank [00:31:12]: Well, this one this one you'll find that, you know, the personally, at at 59.95 (03:08):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:21]: That's (03:09):
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Frank [00:31:21]: I think this is (03:10):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:22]: The legs on that are beautiful. (03:11):
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Frank [00:31:24]: Great value. (03:12):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:25]: Yeah. The legs are absolutely stunning on that. It's gorgeous. And I love that it doesn't taste like what I thought it would. (03:13):
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Frank [00:31:35]: I see. Yeah. Then And what do you think about the flavor? (03:14):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:38]: I think the flavor is lovely because it's, like, it's very it's very, like, full bodied. But, again, like, I was expecting just from smelling it, I was expecting something really sweet to hit me. But it doesn't it's not that at all. It's just like really lovely and it's different from any appattimento I've ever had. (03:15):
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Frank [00:31:56]: It is. (03:16):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:57]: It's like, yeah. How do you achieve that? (03:17):
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Frank [00:32:01]: Good grapes, patience, and a great winemaker, you know, is, is and it's a it's a process. (03:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:08]: But it's like it's something that most people think with the Passimentos that they're going to be very sweet, like slightly sweet. (03:19):
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Frank [00:32:15]: Well, you know, the fermentation is you have to stay on top of it. You have to be there and you have to measure. During fermentation, you have to control the temperature of the wine. You have to control, the the velocity of the fermentation and, you know, you don't want it to ferment too quickly or too slowly, I think, because that all impacts on the final flavor. That's stunning. Yes. Thank you. It's (03:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:43]: absolutely beautiful. (03:21):
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Frank [00:32:45]: Well, I I was (03:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:45]: Such a surprise. (03:23):
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Frank [00:32:46]: I, you know, I (03:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:47]: A real surprise. Like, really, like, I was expecting something completely different. Yeah. That's an absolutely beautiful wine. (03:25):
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Frank [00:32:54]: You know, I I really appreciate you visiting and, tasting these wines. We have in bottle an 1212 more wines, And I have to tell you that I'm proud of every one of them. And we have, 5 I'm sorry, 6 wines, that are going into LCBO for approval next week that are in tank, ready for bottling. We have an amazing Gewurztraminer. We have an oaked Chardonnay. We have another white blend. And we have a, we have an unoaked Chardonnay, and we have one wine that has totally surprised me. It's from the Sauvignon grape, and it has a distinctive flavor all its own. (03:26):
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Frank [00:33:46]: They say it's a cousin to the Gewurztraminer, but it's it's even nicer than the Gewurzt. So we we have, several wines that are gonna be going into bottle over the next, 5 or 6 weeks. And I look forward to to, presenting those. (03:27):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:03]: That's very exciting. (03:28):
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Frank [00:34:04]: And I (03:29):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:04]: have to say, like, Gertrudtshire is one wine I've not ever been in love with. (03:30):
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Frank [00:34:10]: Well, I tell you what, I will let you taste this one as soon as it's bottled, and then you tell me what you think. (03:31):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:16]: Okay. Because it's like, you know what? The florals, so many so many of them have that floral smell that just hits me right in the nose, and I'm like, ugh. But I'm open minded because I have found one that I really liked, and I'm like so when someone says to me, okay. Try it. You'll like it. I'm open minded. I will try it. (03:32):
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Frank [00:34:35]: I already know you're gonna like this one because it's it's it's very balanced. (03:33):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:39]: Oh, good. Does it have that leachy thing going on? (03:34):
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Frank [00:34:42]: It's like (03:35):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:43]: no? Oh, well, I'm taste. Very intrigued, Frank. Very intrigued. (03:36):
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Frank [00:34:46]: I think you might like the way that wine hugs you as well. (03:37):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:50]: Because I'm, like, still coming back to my, like, sabernail and going, like, I just wanna have a more huggy huggy time. You've done such an amazing job with your winery. I I love that you have this concept of making wines affordable, but also of such a high quality. And I think that's so important. (03:38):
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Frank [00:35:11]: I wouldn't have it any other way. You know? If if the wine doesn't turn out the way I like it, it's not gonna go on the market. You know? It has to be it has to be good. (03:39):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:22]: What's your favorite of all of your wines? (03:40):
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Frank [00:35:24]: Well, I I do like the Cabernet Sauvignon. I we have, one that we call our fat red. Okay. It's in Italian, rossogrosso. So the the translation of that is a big fat red And we have the, 17 of that one and I have a 21. The 17 is 59, 95 and the 2021 is is 3995. They're both fantastic. I I love both of them. (03:41):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:52]: Do you believe in selling wines or do you believe in having your wine ready to drink when you sell it? (03:42):
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Frank [00:36:00]: A lot of our big reds are, they they can go either way. You can you can take them home and drink them and enjoy them, or you can cellar them, and they just get better. (03:43):
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Andrea Morris [00:36:10]: Like, my my cuddle blanket of my Cabernet Sauvignon. It's it's like it's like my dog cuddling with me. I swear to god, this wine is spectacular. Like, listener, honestly, you're missing out on something here. But we will have all the info on our show notes, so it'll be perfect. (03:44):
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Frank [00:36:30]: Well, thank you so much. (03:45):
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Andrea Morris [00:36:32]: Oh, I This is Like, this has been an absolute pleasure to spend time with you, Frank. It's like and your winery is spectacular. Oh, thank you. The grounds here, listener, are absolutely beautiful. There's, like if you have children, there's a playground here. If you play pickleball, there's a pickleball, like, court in the back. It's just stunning to look out over the vineyards and have a glass of wine and just relax here. But if you're not in this area, then I suggest you make a visit. (03:46):
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Frank [00:37:00]: Well, thank you. And so we're the winery is a work in progress. Our new winery building is under construction, and the and the gardens that go around it are being put together. So I'm looking forward. The way it is right now, it's I think, we like it very much, but it'll be even nicer as time goes by. (03:47):
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Andrea Morris [00:37:20]: It's great now. It's like, you know what? It's as it's as huggable as your cab salve. (03:48):
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Frank [00:37:25]: Well, thank (03:49):
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Andrea Morris [00:37:26]: you. And I just wanna say that I hope that you listeners have enjoyed this episode with Frank at Camiso. I think it's absolutely fantastic. And be sure to visit the show notes for spill the wine so that you can find out more about the winery, and we will have links to their website as well as to their social media so you can check out, Camiso. And and, you know, if you're in the area, come and visit. It's absolutely fantastic. Also, be sure to follow spill the wine and like it. And, also, if you have any suggestions for things you would like us to do in the future, then send us an email. (03:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:38:02]: It's podcast spill the wine at gmail dot com. Again, that's podcast spill the wine at gmail dot com. Now fill your glass and get ready for the next episode. Cheers. (03:51):
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Frank [00:38:15]: Cheers. Thank you. (03:52):
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Frank [00:00:25]: Yes. Thank you for visiting. (00:01):
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Andrea Morris [00:00:27]: Oh, it's always a pleasure. So before we get started well, actually, we are getting started. Why don't you tell me a little bit about Camiso and how you got started? (00:02):
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Frank [00:00:34]: Well, you know, I'm I've been a grocer my whole life. And then a few years ago, we sold our chain of, supermarkets. And, I've always lived on this land. I was born in Toronto, and and my dad moved the family onto the farm here when I was 8 years old. So I I went to school in the area. I grew up in the area. I loved the area. I loved the land. (00:03):
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Frank [00:00:59]: So when, you know, when I had less grocery store responsibilities, my wife and I decided to, make wines and open a a little winery. And now it's growing, and it's it's not as little anymore, but it's still one of the smaller wineries. We grow phenomenal grapes on this land. All the fruit that grows on this land, we're on clay and we are on the top of vine mount, so we get great sunshine. So it doesn't matter whether it's grapes or apples or peaches or plums, the fruit is always very sweet, very flavorful. So, our yield per acre is in the 3 to 4 tonnes per acre, which is less than half of the normal yield. So we're we're focused on quality, producing quality grapes, and then you can make quality wine from those grapes. So we have several vintages, and if you want, we can, talk about them and get right into them. (00:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:07]: Definitely. What year did you first open the winery? (00:05):
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Frank [00:02:09]: We got our license in 2017. And, (00:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:13]: was that a hard process? (00:07):
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Frank [00:02:14]: No. No. No. I got a lot of help from the various government agencies. It, I mean, it takes time. Everything takes time, but it but it went through fine. Yes. Yeah. (00:08):
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Frank [00:02:25]: So, anyway, the, you know, the thing that I believe in is, and I believe this because I've been a merchandiser or retailer my whole life, is quality and affordable. People need to eat, they need to enjoy wine. And so the things that we sell have to be affordable, but but good quality. (00:09):
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Andrea Morris [00:02:48]: Which is awesome because so many people have this misconception that wine can only be great if it's very expensive, or if it's from California, or from, you know, Italy or France. But I think that I know I've tasted your wines, and they are very amazing. So I'm excited to try them with our listeners and to talk about the process and to talk about your favorite wines and and the wines that you think best represent Camuso as a as (00:10):
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Frank [00:03:14]: a winery. When you talk about quality, VQA wines, I will put VQA wines up against wines from all over the world. Australia, Italy, California, France, we have great wines in Ontario. (00:11):
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Andrea Morris [00:03:33]: I think we do as well, Beau. Let's explain for the listener who might not know what VQA means. (00:12):
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Frank [00:03:37]: Well, VQA is a is a quality control process just like many of the other, quality process controls that are, in effect in in France and Europe and so on. So it's Vintner's Quality Alliance is is what it stands for. So the grapes have to be grown under strict, controls. They have to be managed. The wines have to be processed the grapes have to be processed and the wines made according to standards, laid out by VQA. And then before you can sell a bottle, it has to be analyzed by the VQA and LCBO labs to make sure that it's a quality standard that meets the VQA standard. (00:13):
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Andrea Morris [00:04:27]: Now is that for every wine that you sell in your winery, or is that for specifically for wines that you sell Yeah. No. For every wine? (00:14):
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Frank [00:04:34]: Every wine that gets labeled VQA goes through the same process. (00:15):
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Andrea Morris [00:04:38]: Okay. Yeah. I because I at I've at one point, I thought it was only for wines that were sold in the LCBO, which is for the listener who's not from Canada, that's the liquor control board of Ontario. So we have our wines that we have to buy in those stores. (00:16):
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Frank [00:04:53]: No. It's for all VQA wines. They all have to meet the same quality standards. (00:17):
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Andrea Morris [00:04:59]: Gotcha. Well, enough talking about wine, Frank. Let's drink some. Well, tell me start with? (00:18):
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Frank [00:05:05]: You tell me where you want. You wanna start with the bubbly? We have (00:19):
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Andrea Morris [00:05:07]: a wonderful Yeah. Of course. (00:20):
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Frank [00:05:09]: We we have, a wonderful, 2022 Sparkling Chardonnay. Mhmm. And we launched this Chardonnay, with the Eclipse and, we went through quite a few bottles, during the eclipse. So it was a very enjoyable, basically, a whole day. And we we made pasta primavera for no. I'm sorry. Pasta, alio, o alio and olio. So pasta with garlic and olive oil, for our guests together with this wine, and everyone enjoyed it immensely. (00:21):
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Andrea Morris [00:05:49]: Well, I'm going to now taste this amazing wine. Oh, it's delightful. It's just got the bubbles are lovely. It's not too sweet. It can really taste almost the butteriness of the Chardonnay as well. Yes. It's that. Really lovely, lovely sparkly. (00:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:08]: It's my favorite way to start a wine tasting. I must say I'm a sparkly girl. I love my bubbles. Well, (00:23):
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Frank [00:06:15]: we're very proud of this sparkling chardonnay, and and we have a a very affordable price of 24.90 5. (00:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:21]: That's great for a Chardonnay for a bubbly rather. Yes. Because so many are so expensive, like, up into the $40 range. But, again, I love that you your mantra is make it affordable and make it good. Yes. Like, that's absolutely fantastic. (00:25):
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Frank [00:06:34]: It's much easier to enjoy when you're not paying too much for it. (00:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:38]: Well, you know what? You can enjoy it without guilt. Yeah. Like, oh, I don't have to mortgage my house to buy this fabulous sparkling wine. I'm letting Lucas, our producer, have a little taste as well so that he's in on it. (00:27):
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Frank [00:06:50]: So the the next one, would you like to try our pinot gris? (00:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:54]: Oh, of course. (00:29):
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Frank [00:06:54]: We have an acreage of (00:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:06:56]: This is like I have to say, though, I'm going back to the sparkling. I love it. It's just, like, it's so refreshing, and especially when the weather is really hot like it is today. It's just so I don't know. It just gives you this taste of, like, relaxation in a glass. Yes. Yeah. So There you go. (00:31):
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Andrea Morris [00:07:15]: You can use that. (00:32):
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Frank [00:07:18]: My nephew came and we had a sandwich, last week, and we had a bottle of this, with a sandwich out in our gazebo. It was delightful. (00:33):
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Andrea Morris [00:07:27]: It really is. It's lovely. It's just and and, again, the price point is absolutely fantastic. (00:34):
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Frank [00:07:32]: I'm gonna shift to our rose next. Yay. Okay. So we make a a wonderful rose, which is, combination of, whites with a with a, gamay. (00:35):
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Andrea Morris [00:07:47]: And Do you are you the winemaker here, Frank, or do you have one? (00:36):
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Frank [00:07:50]: I work very closely with a couple of senior winemakers, actually 3, and, each one has a strength in different areas. And, so I enjoy working with those folks. (00:37):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:03]: And, (00:38):
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Frank [00:08:04]: a couple of them are my age, so, they've been around He's 29. So just try that rose and see what you think of that. It's a (00:39):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:14]: really lovely color. It's a very light pink. And how is it, like, how do you get the color in a rose? Often people ask that. Like, is it is it because of the the different grapes, or is it because of skin contact? (00:40):
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Frank [00:08:26]: It's it's the different wines that you blend. You know? In our case, we blend to get our rose. (00:41):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:35]: Smells lovely. Like, a little a little bit of cherry, maybe, I'm thinking, or strawberry. Oh, Frank, you're killing me. This is this is amazing. The taste is like strawberries in my mouth. (00:42):
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Frank [00:08:54]: Yes. (00:43):
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Andrea Morris [00:08:54]: It's like a it's like I just picked strawberries in a field and made them into wine, but it's not sweet. It's just really lovely. (00:44):
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Frank [00:09:02]: We sell this rose all year round, but it's a great summer drink. You know, served, cold, with some fruit or with a light, sandwich. It's it's, (00:45):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:13]: It's wonderful. (00:46):
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Frank [00:09:14]: It's a summer drink. (00:47):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:15]: Yeah. And what was the what was the blend on that again? (00:48):
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Frank [00:09:18]: So so we have Chardonnay there. We have some Vidal, and we have Gamay. (00:49):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:26]: It's interesting because you don't see a lot of Vidal in El Rose. (00:50):
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Frank [00:09:31]: Vidal has a wonderful flavor of its own, and you're tasting some of the Vidal flavor notes in that wine. (00:51):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:37]: It's really fantastic. (00:52):
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Frank [00:09:39]: I think, personally, I think Vidal is underrated. It it makes lovely whites and and lovely blending. You know? It makes lovely blends. (00:53):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:48]: You don't see a lot of people actually having just a plain Vidal, though? (00:54):
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Frank [00:09:51]: No. You have to It's (00:55):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:53]: more of a blend wine? (00:56):
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Frank [00:09:53]: Yeah. You have to brush it up with some Chardonnay, or some, Pinot Gris. (00:57):
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Andrea Morris [00:09:58]: Is that like a German wine of Vidal or no? I mean, it's right. Hybrid. A hybrid. Okay. (00:58):
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Frank [00:10:03]: Yeah. I I think it's, I'm not sure of the background of the Vidal. (00:59):
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Andrea Morris [00:10:08]: I could drink this all day. Well, (01:00):
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Frank [00:10:12]: if you like, we can we can move we can move on to our pinot grif. (01:01):
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Andrea Morris [00:10:16]: I kinda wanna talk about this a little more because I'm enjoying it so much. It's just so lovely. It's like so who comes up with that concept of blending which grapes? Do you just kind of talk about it? (01:02):
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Frank [00:10:26]: Or It's a team. So so we take, we take, several containers of wines that we wanna blend, and we use, measurements. And we say, okay. If we put so much of this and so much of that one, this is a result. And this is put together by our team, and so far, they've done a great job. (01:03):
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Andrea Morris [00:10:47]: Yeah. Then do you like if it if it's not tasting do you put it, like, just do some in a barrel first and then taste it first and go like, do we tweak this? Do we add something? Or do we or do you just let the wine be? (01:04):
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Frank [00:11:00]: Once you've once you've measured it into some beakers and and tasted it, then you go ahead and and make the blend the quantity together that you wanna bottle and go with it. (01:05):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:13]: Yeah. So I see your vats behind us. Do you blend it there first and then barrel it? (01:06):
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Frank [00:11:17]: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Depending on the on the size of the bottling, you use the right tank and, maybe your fill your filtering and prepare it for bottling. (01:07):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:28]: And how long how long do you leave it in a bath before you bought before you decide to (01:08):
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Frank [00:11:32]: The the the depends on the wine. The the rose, you you we don't leave it very long, you know, because it's blended and you we just bottle it. (01:09):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:40]: And you don't you don't, (01:10):
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Frank [00:11:42]: barrel it? No. No. This is not barrel. This is this is a fresh this and, I mean, this allows us to be 1695, which is affordable for What? Yeah. (01:11):
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Andrea Morris [00:11:55]: That's great. See, we're breaking down listener, we're breaking down the barriers that a great wine has to talk to cost a ton of money because this is an absolutely spectacular 1695 Rose. (01:12):
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Frank [00:12:06]: Thank you. (01:13):
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Andrea Morris [00:12:06]: But it's like, honestly, like, I have to walk out of here with a case of that. It's We're we're (01:14):
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Frank [00:12:11]: we're very proud of. (01:15):
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Andrea Morris [00:12:12]: You should be, Frank. It's absolutely lovely. (01:16):
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Frank [00:12:15]: So our our pinot gris is also, wine that we're very proud of. So a couple weeks ago, I I my wife and I were at an event in Toronto at the Chirillo's, culinary academy, and it was a fundraiser for autistic kids. And so I I took some of our 2021, Cabernet Franc and some of this Pinot Gris. And I can tell you it was a sophisticated crowd because it was on the Esplanade, downtown Toronto, and they loved both of the wines. Both of them. This Pinot Gris, we grow the grapes on our acreage at the corner of number 8 Highway in Cherry Avenue, and we have an acreage of Pinot Gris there. And it's, I I think it's some of the nicest pinot gris grown in the area. The land is, you know, the soil is fantastic. (01:17):
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Frank [00:13:13]: The vines, produce amazing pinot gris. And if you like, I'll give you a taste of this one. (01:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:19]: It must get a lot of sun in that area too. (01:19):
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Frank [00:13:21]: Yeah. It's so that, you know, pinot gris is, in my opinion, it's it it has a lot of characteristics but it's it's white, you know, so it has a it's it's a bigger wine. It's a bolder wine. (01:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:39]: It's got a really lovely nose, kind of peachy perry, I think. I know that sounds weird. No. (01:21):
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Frank [00:13:48]: No. No. No. (01:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:49]: But you know what? As I've said to the listeners earlier on our first episode, everyone's palate and everyone's nose is different. So what I smell or taste, you might not smell (01:23):
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Frank [00:13:59]: or taste. (01:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:13:59]: So it's like and there's nothing there's nothing to, actually feel bad about that. It's just that we're all we're all individuals. (01:25):
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Frank [00:14:07]: The important thing is that you enjoy it because there are wines that you enjoy more than other wines. (01:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:13]: There are some wines I definitely do not like. (01:27):
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Frank [00:14:15]: Yeah. They they meet they they're friendly to your taste buds, your palate, and you just enjoy them. So those are the wines you should drink. (01:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:24]: But it's funny that even, like, you as you some years as you age, I think too, something that you like maybe 10 years ago, you like and you didn't like, you like now. (01:29):
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Frank [00:14:36]: There's that, and it's also the time of day or the mood you're in or the people you're with and the food that you're combining. So there's a a lot of different elements that go into, whether you're going to enjoy that glass of wine. (01:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:50]: And also year by year. I mean Yes. This what year is this? Is this Pinot Gris? (01:31):
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Frank [00:14:55]: Yes. This is our 21. Oh. I'm sorry. 2020. (01:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:14:58]: Oh, 2020. Lovely year for wine Yeah. Except for COVID. But a 2021 might taste completely different. (01:33):
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Frank [00:15:06]: Our 21 is already bottled. Mhmm. And, I really like it. (01:34):
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Andrea Morris [00:15:10]: This has a really lovely smooth finish. Yes. It's like it tastes like a blanket on the back of my tongue. It's just like it's really it's really comforting almost. And it's like but it's got a really lovely taste to it. Not citrusy, which I find with some Pinot Gris. It's like more like, like I said, kinda I could I kinda taste that little perryappley kind of thing. Yeah. (01:35):
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Frank [00:15:35]: Yeah. Yes. Yes. (01:36):
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Andrea Morris [00:15:37]: Yeah. But it's really it's really nice and warm, but I can imagine that with with a nice light pasta. (01:37):
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Frank [00:15:44]: Save your palate because now we're gonna go to our reds. (01:38):
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Andrea Morris [00:15:49]: So, What's your favorite of all of your wines? (01:39):
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Frank [00:15:52]: I get asked that question all the time, and, honestly, it fluctuates with the time of day, the mood that I'm in, the people I'm with, you know, so and the food. Of course. You know? So so some foods and some, feasts that demand a big heavy red, which we have. And there are others that say, no. I like my entry level, red blend, which we're gonna taste next. (01:40):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:19]: Which would be like with the pizza probably. Right? Yeah. (01:41):
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Frank [00:16:22]: Yeah. Or burgers. Nibbling on some cheese. Yeah. (01:42):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:26]: So doesn't love that? (01:43):
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Frank [00:16:28]: So so our winemaker selection, this is a 2019, and this particular one has, I would say about 50% Pinot Noir in it. It has some Cabernet Franc and, a little bit of, a little bit of Foch. (01:44):
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Andrea Morris [00:16:51]: Oh. (01:45):
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Frank [00:16:52]: And Baccanoire, but small percentages. And, this the thing about this wine that that I'm finding because we have this wine in several supermarkets, and, we also take it out to market to farmers markets in Burlington and Grimsby and so on. And once people taste this at 14:95, then it's an instant sale. Tell me what you think of it. Take a look at the color. Take a look at the Listener, the color (01:46):
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Andrea Morris [00:17:27]: is beautiful. It's like kind of like a I'm trying to see what the it's kind of like a plum, but not really. It's just got and I'm looking at you through the the bottom of it. It's just like a beautiful, beautiful red (01:47):
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Frank [00:17:42]: Yeah. I think that's (01:48):
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Andrea Morris [00:17:44]: with lovely red love lovely legs on it as well. And we already know what legs are if you listen to if you don't, go back and listen to podcast number 1. Oh, it's so warm and inviting. Like, nice cherry finish to it, but not overly heavy. It's kind of a lighter lighter red, which I can see, like, this would be great even in hot weather to sit outside and and sip and have with a pizza, have with a nice a light pasta. (01:49):
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Frank [00:18:15]: Yes. This this wine is one that we are, offering, to the LCBO. (01:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:18:24]: Oh, that's delightful. (01:51):
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Frank [00:18:26]: With the LCBO now, allowing wines into all supermarkets, so we we are putting together a group of wines, you know, in the 15 to $25 range (01:52):
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Andrea Morris [00:18:44]: Yeah. (01:53):
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Frank [00:18:46]: That are great wines that go with foods. And we're really excited about being able to work with, LCBO and, the, the provincial government in terms of getting our wines onto supermarket shelves. So this is one of our big initiatives, and this is one of the wines that we will be, presenting. (01:54):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:08]: Are you allowed to do tastings in supermarkets? (01:55):
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Frank [00:19:10]: Yeah. We do that. (01:56):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:10]: Oh, yeah? Yeah. (01:57):
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Frank [00:19:11]: We partner with Arla Cheese and we so people can have some cheese and wine while they're doing their grocery shopping. And when they taste this wine with a piece of cheese, they love it. (01:58):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:26]: Well, what's not to love? It's just like for the price, it's absolutely stunning. And, I mean, like, I have bought this listener, I have bought this wine. I'm not unfamiliar with it, but year by year, it does (01:59):
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Frank [00:19:41]: change. Yeah. (02:00):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:42]: It's like We try (02:01):
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Frank [00:19:44]: to we try to hit the similar notes, but, you know, the wines that you blend are all slightly different each year. And whether nature, you know, does your thing, and then you have to sort of roll with it. (02:02):
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Andrea Morris [00:19:57]: But today, listener, it happens to be a very, very hot day here in on in, Ontario in the bench land. How does extreme heat affect the grapes? (02:03):
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Frank [00:20:08]: Well, you know, if it's extreme heat for an extended period of time (02:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:20:12]: What's extended? Like, 2 weeks? Yeah. (02:05):
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Frank [00:20:14]: A couple of weeks or something. Then the vines will start to, shut down just like human beings. You gotta get out of that heat. So they start to shut down a bit. But so far, we haven't had that problem, and we hope that we don't get that problem because they will, wake up again and and go back, but you lose that shutdown period, which is not not conducive to high quality grapes. (02:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:20:39]: Is there a way to combat that? No. Not really. No? Not really. You can't, like, when you're I guess you can't shade your whole vineyard. Right? No. Yeah. (02:07):
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Frank [00:20:47]: Like, some people irrigate, aerially, but that's that I don't know how much benefit you get from that. But, you know, I I think that, so far this year, we've had a great we've had a great winter, a great spring. The the vines are are very vigorous, and the the the the clusters have already bloomed. And now they're the berries are formed, so we're we're off to the races. (02:08):
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Andrea Morris [00:21:14]: Does a mild winter help? (02:09):
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Frank [00:21:16]: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You like to have a nice frost to sort of, let them let them go into dormancy nicely, but then you don't need minus fifteens and minus twenties and my you know, they do just fine at 0. (02:10):
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Andrea Morris [00:21:33]: Now your winery is located a little bit higher up than than, most. Do can you do ice wines here, or do you have to be closer to the lake for an ice wine? (02:11):
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Frank [00:21:41]: No. You can do ice wines, here. But we we already have, inventory of ice wines, so we're we're more focusing on everyday wines right now. (02:12):
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Andrea Morris [00:21:54]: Well, I would have to say that every single wine I've tasted so far is absolutely spectacular. So (02:13):
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Frank [00:22:00]: So now (02:14):
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Andrea Morris [00:22:00]: we'll This is fun. (02:15):
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Frank [00:22:03]: If you if you like, we'll move to, bigger wine now, bigger red. This is a Cabernet Sauvignon Mhmm. 2021. And, so so this wine has been barreled aged in new oak barrels for 18 months. It's now been in bottle for, 10 months. And I'd like you to taste this one. This is it's not Cabernet Sauvignon, in my opinion, I like a nice clean Cabernet Sauvignon with that has tannin, that has flavor, and, a good alcohol content. But, some of the Cabernet Sauvignons that come into Ontario, I find are a little bit there's too much complexity there that is I don't think it's part of the grape. (02:16):
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Frank [00:22:56]: I think it's part of the wine making process. But try this one and let me know what you think. (02:17):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:03]: Beautiful color. It's such a deep, deep red. I love the color of a Cabernet Sauvignon to be dark. I I don't know why it just makes me feel like it's gonna be a higher quality. (02:18):
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Frank [00:23:17]: It is a higher quality. It's Cabernet Sauvignon. (02:19):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:19]: Oh my lord. That's a lot of listener, if you could smell this wine, it would smell like heaven. It's it's just very fruit forward and it if you can you should make candles out of this. Because I would love to just light this up and have my whole room smell like this wine. It's absolutely a stunning smell. Here. I'm passing this over to Lucas, my producer, who's shaking his head and yes. Absolutely. (02:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:50]: Oh. (02:21):
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Frank [00:23:52]: So this is the wine that we tasted Oh. At the fundraiser for (02:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:55]: Wow. (02:23):
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Frank [00:23:56]: For autistic kids. (02:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:23:57]: Here's what I'm just saying. Wow. Yeah. This is so lovely. Full bodied, very grapey, but also, like, just so inviting. Like, I want a steak right now. I'm just telling you. I'd just like a steak. (02:25):
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Frank [00:24:11]: Does it feel like a nice clean wine (02:26):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:13]: on your garlic? Hug. It feels like wine is hugging me. That's what it feels like to me. It's just like it's just like the taste is so spectacular. The the the the nose on that is beautiful. Everything about it is just, like, so perfect. It just it just literally, it just feels like that wine just gave me a big hug. (02:27):
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Frank [00:24:31]: Oh, that's amazing. (02:28):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:33]: It's just so beautiful. Yes. And Lucas is giving his thumbs up (02:29):
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Frank [00:24:38]: as well. (02:30):
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Andrea Morris [00:24:38]: It's just absolutely stunning. I love that we have I feel like I'm so happy that I live in an area that has wines like this at my doorstep. Affordable. Affordable and stunningly stunningly delicious. Like, oh, this Frank, this is lovely. Yeah. So the so this wine I can see why people went nuts over it. This wine (02:31):
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Frank [00:25:03]: paired with some of the foods that we serve here, you know, we have a great flatbread pizza. We have, Italian style rice balls. You know, we we do, sandwiches, we do chili. It just pairs very well with all of our foods. And again and again, affordable foods with affordable wine. (02:32):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:27]: This is That's this is the wine. This I would expect this wine to be, like, $60 a bottle at, like, if it was, like, a if it was, like, an Italian wine. (02:33):
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Frank [00:25:35]: So this is a 39.95 Shit. Wine. (02:34):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:38]: This is really lovely for that price. Like, I would real literally, I've tasted wines that are at higher price than this that don't taste as great. (02:35):
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Frank [00:25:48]: That's good to hear. (02:36):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:48]: This is fantastic. (02:37):
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Frank [00:25:50]: Thank you. So then now you're all ready to, go into a big wine? (02:38):
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Andrea Morris [00:25:55]: Oh, I'm like, you know, I'm still, like, hugging this one. I don't want it. It's like when my dog cuddles with me in the morning, it's like, I'm so happy with my cuddles that I don't wanna start. (02:39):
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Frank [00:26:07]: You don't wanna put it down. (02:40):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:09]: No. It's like we're still cuddling, Frank. Don't rush me. We're having a moment here with this beautiful wine. And this is the Cabernet Sauvignon. (02:41):
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Frank [00:26:17]: Yes. 2021. (02:42):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:18]: 202021. Yeah. And it's interesting because 2021, a lot of people didn't think was a great year for wine. (02:43):
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Frank [00:26:23]: We were we're very happy with this wine. (02:44):
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Andrea Morris [00:26:25]: It's fant literally, I I agree. It's absolutely stunning. (02:45):
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Frank [00:26:29]: That happens when you have, lower yields. You know, when you keep your yield, to, a light yield, each vine then has the ability to ripen the grapes properly. And so you get a good wine with that. So I'd like you to try our passimento. Uh-huh. We passimento is a word that describes what in Italy is sold as amaroni. Okay? We are not allowed to use that name in Canada because that's a copyrighted name. Like Prosecco. (02:46):
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Frank [00:27:09]: Exactly. Yeah. Now these, are copyrighted names, but the process is the same. (02:47):
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Andrea Morris [00:27:14]: For our listener that doesn't understand doesn't know what a passimento is, what is the process? (02:48):
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Frank [00:27:19]: Okay. So a passimento, you use particular grapes. Some of the grapes that are used in Italy for the Amarone process are grown here in Niagara, but very limited quantities. So so we stick with in in in our particular case, we stick with, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, and Merlot. And and so what we do is we harvest these grapes at their peak of ripeness, before before frost, and we we lay the grapes in little in little baskets, plastic chest baskets. We stack them, and then we force air, over the grapes for a period of time. And then we use a fan and tunnel system, so that the berries dry up. You lose moisture. (02:49):
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Frank [00:28:10]: You the stems dry, and so you you get, you don't get the bitterness from the stems into the wine when you crush them and crush in the stem. And, the seeds ripen. The seeds finish ripening because that sometime green flavor that you get in wine can come from the stems or the seeds. So when they're, done a passamento style, they actually don't adversely affect the flavor in the wine. (02:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:28:46]: Because you've dried that all out? (02:51):
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Frank [00:28:48]: Yeah. The moisture's gone, and the seeds are ripened. And the berries, are more concentrated. So you've, you've you've dried up some of the the liquid, the water in the in in the berries. So the the color of the flavor is more concentrated. So then you process those grapes in a normal way, but you'll have a higher concentration of tannins, of phenolics, and sugar. So you get a little more, alcohol in the wine, higher alcohol level, and higher flavor level. (02:52):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:22]: And that's why I find some opaciamentos I've tried have been a little sweeter than. Is that because of the dryness of the fruit? (02:53):
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Frank [00:29:30]: Yeah. And it's it depends where the winemaker, decides to stop the fermentation. (02:54):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:36]: Oh, okay. (02:55):
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Frank [00:29:37]: You know, some winemakers like their opacimentos to be a little sweeter and some winemakers like it more dry. I I prefer dry. (02:56):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:46]: Yeah. I do as well. I don't like a really sweet appascimentos. (02:57):
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Frank [00:29:48]: Yeah. This one here, (02:58):
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Andrea Morris [00:29:51]: But thank you for that explanation because I knew that was for someone who doesn't understand and goes to a store and goes like, why is a Pacimento so expensive? It's interesting to know the process of why that is. Oh, that that color is so deep and so Uh-huh. (02:59):
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Frank [00:30:08]: It's like between red and black. Well, it's like yeah. (03:00):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:12]: It's like if I was a vampire, that would be a drink of blood. And it smells very sweet. Very cherryish, I think. Like, it smells like it's it's just got a much more sweet smell than an an aroma, I should say. The nose is more. I I'll be snotty now, listener. The the nose is, like, a much sweeter smell than the rest of them. (03:01):
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Frank [00:30:37]: Yeah. So after the placenta, this wine was barrel aged, for 18 months also. (03:02):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:43]: But it's interesting because it smells sweet, but it doesn't taste sweet (03:03):
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Frank [00:30:46]: Yes. (03:04):
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Andrea Morris [00:30:47]: Which is really great. Like, I like, smelling that, I was thinking this was gonna taste like cherry juice. But it's nice and dry Yes. But very, very, very flavorful. It's lovely. (03:05):
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Frank [00:31:01]: Thank you. (03:06):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:01]: What a, like, what a what a pleasant surprise because literally, I have smelled so many, like, appacimentos that it smelled so sweet, and then I've been like, I thought my teeth would fall out. (03:07):
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Frank [00:31:12]: Well, this one this one you'll find that, you know, the personally, at at 59.95 (03:08):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:21]: That's (03:09):
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Frank [00:31:21]: I think this is (03:10):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:22]: The legs on that are beautiful. (03:11):
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Frank [00:31:24]: Great value. (03:12):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:25]: Yeah. The legs are absolutely stunning on that. It's gorgeous. And I love that it doesn't taste like what I thought it would. (03:13):
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Frank [00:31:35]: I see. Yeah. Then And what do you think about the flavor? (03:14):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:38]: I think the flavor is lovely because it's, like, it's very it's very, like, full bodied. But, again, like, I was expecting just from smelling it, I was expecting something really sweet to hit me. But it doesn't it's not that at all. It's just like really lovely and it's different from any appattimento I've ever had. (03:15):
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Frank [00:31:56]: It is. (03:16):
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Andrea Morris [00:31:57]: It's like, yeah. How do you achieve that? (03:17):
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Frank [00:32:01]: Good grapes, patience, and a great winemaker, you know, is, is and it's a it's a process. (03:18):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:08]: But it's like it's something that most people think with the Passimentos that they're going to be very sweet, like slightly sweet. (03:19):
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Frank [00:32:15]: Well, you know, the fermentation is you have to stay on top of it. You have to be there and you have to measure. During fermentation, you have to control the temperature of the wine. You have to control, the the velocity of the fermentation and, you know, you don't want it to ferment too quickly or too slowly, I think, because that all impacts on the final flavor. That's stunning. Yes. Thank you. It's (03:20):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:43]: absolutely beautiful. (03:21):
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Frank [00:32:45]: Well, I I was (03:22):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:45]: Such a surprise. (03:23):
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Frank [00:32:46]: I, you know, I (03:24):
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Andrea Morris [00:32:47]: A real surprise. Like, really, like, I was expecting something completely different. Yeah. That's an absolutely beautiful wine. (03:25):
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Frank [00:32:54]: You know, I I really appreciate you visiting and, tasting these wines. We have in bottle an 1212 more wines, And I have to tell you that I'm proud of every one of them. And we have, 5 I'm sorry, 6 wines, that are going into LCBO for approval next week that are in tank, ready for bottling. We have an amazing Gewurztraminer. We have an oaked Chardonnay. We have another white blend. And we have a, we have an unoaked Chardonnay, and we have one wine that has totally surprised me. It's from the Sauvignon grape, and it has a distinctive flavor all its own. (03:26):
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Frank [00:33:46]: They say it's a cousin to the Gewurztraminer, but it's it's even nicer than the Gewurzt. So we we have, several wines that are gonna be going into bottle over the next, 5 or 6 weeks. And I look forward to to, presenting those. (03:27):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:03]: That's very exciting. (03:28):
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Frank [00:34:04]: And I (03:29):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:04]: have to say, like, Gertrudtshire is one wine I've not ever been in love with. (03:30):
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Frank [00:34:10]: Well, I tell you what, I will let you taste this one as soon as it's bottled, and then you tell me what you think. (03:31):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:16]: Okay. Because it's like, you know what? The florals, so many so many of them have that floral smell that just hits me right in the nose, and I'm like, ugh. But I'm open minded because I have found one that I really liked, and I'm like so when someone says to me, okay. Try it. You'll like it. I'm open minded. I will try it. (03:32):
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Frank [00:34:35]: I already know you're gonna like this one because it's it's it's very balanced. (03:33):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:39]: Oh, good. Does it have that leachy thing going on? (03:34):
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Frank [00:34:42]: It's like (03:35):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:43]: no? Oh, well, I'm taste. Very intrigued, Frank. Very intrigued. (03:36):
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Frank [00:34:46]: I think you might like the way that wine hugs you as well. (03:37):
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Andrea Morris [00:34:50]: Because I'm, like, still coming back to my, like, sabernail and going, like, I just wanna have a more huggy huggy time. You've done such an amazing job with your winery. I I love that you have this concept of making wines affordable, but also of such a high quality. And I think that's so important. (03:38):
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Frank [00:35:11]: I wouldn't have it any other way. You know? If if the wine doesn't turn out the way I like it, it's not gonna go on the market. You know? It has to be it has to be good. (03:39):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:22]: What's your favorite of all of your wines? (03:40):
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Frank [00:35:24]: Well, I I do like the Cabernet Sauvignon. I we have, one that we call our fat red. Okay. It's in Italian, rossogrosso. So the the translation of that is a big fat red And we have the, 17 of that one and I have a 21. The 17 is 59, 95 and the 2021 is is 3995. They're both fantastic. I I love both of them. (03:41):
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Andrea Morris [00:35:52]: Do you believe in selling wines or do you believe in having your wine ready to drink when you sell it? (03:42):
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Frank [00:36:00]: A lot of our big reds are, they they can go either way. You can you can take them home and drink them and enjoy them, or you can cellar them, and they just get better. (03:43):
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Andrea Morris [00:36:10]: Like, my my cuddle blanket of my Cabernet Sauvignon. It's it's like it's like my dog cuddling with me. I swear to god, this wine is spectacular. Like, listener, honestly, you're missing out on something here. But we will have all the info on our show notes, so it'll be perfect. (03:44):
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Frank [00:36:30]: Well, thank you so much. (03:45):
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Andrea Morris [00:36:32]: Oh, I This is Like, this has been an absolute pleasure to spend time with you, Frank. It's like and your winery is spectacular. Oh, thank you. The grounds here, listener, are absolutely beautiful. There's, like if you have children, there's a playground here. If you play pickleball, there's a pickleball, like, court in the back. It's just stunning to look out over the vineyards and have a glass of wine and just relax here. But if you're not in this area, then I suggest you make a visit. (03:46):
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Frank [00:37:00]: Well, thank you. And so we're the winery is a work in progress. Our new winery building is under construction, and the and the gardens that go around it are being put together. So I'm looking forward. The way it is right now, it's I think, we like it very much, but it'll be even nicer as time goes by. (03:47):
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Andrea Morris [00:37:20]: It's great now. It's like, you know what? It's as it's as huggable as your cab salve. (03:48):
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Frank [00:37:25]: Well, thank (03:49):
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Andrea Morris [00:37:26]: you. And I just wanna say that I hope that you listeners have enjoyed this episode with Frank at Camiso. I think it's absolutely fantastic. And be sure to visit the show notes for spill the wine so that you can find out more about the winery, and we will have links to their website as well as to their social media so you can check out, Camiso. And and, you know, if you're in the area, come and visit. It's absolutely fantastic. Also, be sure to follow spill the wine and like it. And, also, if you have any suggestions for things you would like us to do in the future, then send us an email. (03:50):
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Andrea Morris [00:38:02]: It's podcast spill the wine at gmail dot com. Again, that's podcast spill the wine at gmail dot com. Now fill your glass and get ready for the next episode. Cheers. (03:51):
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Frank [00:38:15]: Cheers. Thank you. (03:52):
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