June 3, 2024 • 44 mins
Welcome to episode 151 of Sports Management Podcast.
Arianna Criscione is a former professional soccer player and the current founding member and Head of Football operations for Mercury/13. She is also the founder of Valeur Sport, whos mission is to mission is to be the voice of pay equity within the sports industry, empowering women with the tools, skills, and networks to overcome institutional bias.
We spoke about:
- Her professional soccer career
- Bouncing back from a serious knee injury
- Playing for the Italian national team instead of USA
- What the 99'ers has meant to her
- Mercury/13’s first club – FC Como Women
- How organizations can help mothers juggle work and family
- Why she started Valeur Sport
And much more!
WATCH ON YOUTUBE: https://youtu.be/oxK8bVtIYko
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:47 Head of Football Operations at Mercury/13
02:50 Investing in Como Women
07:15 Changes in Women's Football Over Time
19:22 Founding Valeur Sport
24:25 Balancing Personal & Professional Life
28:42 How Arianna Got Into Sports
31:00 Overcoming Injuries
34:00 The Impact of the 99'ers
37:38 Best Advice For Women In Sports
40:22 Outro
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Arianna's Channels:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianna-criscione/
https://www.instagram.com/acfootballer/
https://twitter.com/acfootballer
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to Sports Management podcast, where you will hear interesting sports management professionals share their stories, experiences and passion for the sports management industry. I am your host, Marcus Philipson. Welcome to episode 151 of Sports Management podcast. If you have ever learned anything from this show, please show your gratitude by subscribing to the podcast in your podcast app. And if you feel extra generous, leave a five star review. This will help the show grow and the bigger the show, the bigger the guests. Thank you. Today's guest is Ariana Criscioni, a former professional soccer player and the current founding member and head of football operations for Mercury 13. She's also the founder of Velour Sports, whose mission is to be the voice of pay equity within the sports industry, empowering women with tools, skills and networks to overcome institutional bias.
(01:00):
We spoke about her professional soccer career playing for the italian national team instead of USA. What the 99 ers has meant to her Mercury Thirteen's first club, FC Como Women, how organizations can help mothers juggle work and family, why she started velour sport, and much more. Ariana Crisioni, welcome to Sports management podcast.
(01:27):
Thank you. Excited to be here.
I'm very excited to have you on. So you are currently a founding member and head of football operations for Mercury 13. So can you tell us a little bit about this role?
Yes, it's a very exciting role, obviously. No, I'm just kidding. No, it is a very cool role. Basically, as you know, you've had a lot of my colleagues on, and you guys probably know a bit about Mercury 13, but I get to do the really fun part, the football part. So anything that happens on the pitch and directly around the pitch is under my vertical of football operations. But this really means that I'm working very closely with all the sporting directors of our clubs, helping them with what they need and maybe helping them with the strategy of where we want the club to go and what it should be doing. But I think it's really important for us to share, though, that the clubs we are buying, we like their football and what they're doing already.
(02:22):
And obviously my colleagues have explained that it's really a focus on the commercial. So I'm here to chat with them, to bounce ideas off of them, to maybe make them think of things in a way that they haven't so far. But by no means are we coming from our level and telling them what players need to be bought and sold and what their job is. We are very happy with the club, especially Como and the sporting director there, and we give them all the faith and put it in their hands to guide the team. Exactly what happens on the pitch.
(02:49):
Interesting. And you mentioned FC Como that when I've talked to your colleagues from Mercury 13 that was not yet announced. So now this is out in the open. So from your point of view as head of football operations, what are you doing and helping them with more specifically on this team?
So with this team specifically, again, working very closely with the sporting director, understanding the current staff, what's needed, what the players directly need, helping build out a strategy moving forward for those players. So there's some fun stuff that we're thinking about that really gets me excited is the holistic player development. So not just how we're helping the players on the pitch, that's super important. But what we can do off the pitch and what added value can we give to the players, whether that's looking them, looking at them as women and their bodies completely as female bodies. So what extra things are needed? What kind of exams might be needed for a female body that we can happily give them and then make sure that their whole body is ready to go on the football pitch?
(03:48):
Not just the aspects from a sporting perspective, language lessons, having different conversations about post career or things that they're interested in, that we can connect them either internally or through our networks to chat with people, understand different industries, understand what they could do post career thinking about some of them might want to do coaching courses. So how can we help them get access to those courses or get confidence to go do those courses since most of those courses are a male dominated industry and it's very hard to get certain licenses.
(04:17):
So there's a lot of things that we're thinking about and starting to implement for next season, which will be really fun and hopefully that the players really see the value in it and understand that we really care about them, not just how they perform on the pitch, but who they are off the pitch.
So I assume also that you were involved in the acquisition of the club. So what was when you're looking at the prerequisites for what you see in a club and why you wanted, why did you decide in the end for FC Como?
(04:46):
Como is just a fantastic club in itself. It is an independent women's club and we're not only going after Independence women's club, but for our first club it made a lot of sense to go to como. They have an incredible pre existing staff, but staff also back in staff and they have this incredible spirit of family and it sounds so cliche to say it like that, but they truly do. And they've built something so incredible that on paper, when you look at who they're competing against and how they're competing, they shouldn't be as successful as they are, but they are because of the environment that's been built around them and the people who are there.
(05:24):
And so when we talked to the owner and the president, he understood that he had done an incredible job and we're so thankful for the job that he's done. But he realized that he couldn't really take Como to the next step. He is not somebody that's really into. Well, he's into football now with the women's team, but he didn't have a huge background in football. He comes, he's a business owner and so he wanted to make sure that he brought people in that could help. He's staying, he's a part of our board and he'll stay president, which is amazing. So we're not taking anything away from them. We just get to add value. But we really chose como because of the people that are there and the people that we're going to keep there.
(05:59):
And then who doesn't want to have to go to como for work all the time, obviously. No, it's a beautiful place. Italy is a beautiful country. Women's football is moving up and there and it was just a fantastic opportunity with fantastic people.
Yeah, I saw some pictures from the press release and it looked beautiful.
Oh, it's fantastic. No, it's an amazing place.
(06:20):
If the listeners don't really know your background, you're a professional football player for many years as a goalkeeper and has played in several countries. So how much of your background now comes in handy in your role as head of football operations?
Every day, every decision is coming from the lens of what I wanted as a player. And how can I do that as the owner? So looking at it from both aspects of what would I have really needed as a player, what would have got me playing better or what would have helped me? And then from the owner perspective, okay, what is realistic, what can we financially do? How can we be creative to maybe make everything come true? How can we listen to the players and understand and talk to them? So every decision has that lens.
(07:05):
Yeah. So for example, let's say you played in FC 20 in approximately ten years ago. So, you know, looking from there up until now, a lot of happen, especially in women's football, women's soccer. So what things you didn't have then that you could have had and that you now want to help out with the current situation?
Is it really ten years ago? So I'm going to take it even farther back because I would say almost, not 20 years ago, like 15 years ago, I actually did play in Italy. So understanding the landscape of what it looked like back then to now is a huge difference in understanding what were. I don't like the word given, but the opportunity that we had to play and were being paid well. When were paid, were being paid technically, and we had apartments and stuff like that. And so just the steps that women's football has taken and the professionalization of the game and the league and the visibility is hugely different.
(07:59):
But I think about it then, and even then, just what are the things I needed, especially as a foreigner playing in a different country with a different language and a different culture, what does that look like? And how can I help my players? And then on the other side, the Italians, this is their home, and this is, you know, their city or their town or them leaving home. Like, thinking about all of these different aspects makes me want to give more to our players and want to help them just because I've been in their shoes. So that. Did I answer the question or did I go on a random tangent? I'm not sure now.
(08:31):
No, no, it was good. But if there are some specific things that you. You didn't like the word given, but opportunities or things that you didn't have that you thought that you would have benefited you if you had, is that something that you now can give or provide to the current teams?
So I think, yeah, so one of the big things is nobody ever talked about what happens when you don't want to play anymore, when you can't play anymore, when whatever that is. And this is something that I've spoken about quite often, but it's something that's really important to me that athletes should be thinking about post career. The first day they signed their very first contract at 1516 2020, whatever that is, one day you will stop and you do not want your whole identity only to be as a football player. I mean, it's really funny, but it's off topic. I did a mom event this morning, and some of the moms were introducing themselves, and they never said their name because their whole identity is now the baby.
(09:26):
And not to compare football to that, but if you lose yourself and your whole identity, it becomes very complicated to find yourself again. And I'm of the mindset that if you always know who you are and you keep who you are, you will better at those other hats that you put on. And so for the players, I want to help them find out who they are off the pitch. I truly believe that will make them better on the pitch. And again, in 1020, 30, 50 years down the line, when they decide to retire and they have given themselves other experiences and other opportunities, they're going to be okay or happy with the retirement, knowing that they gave everything to football and now they get to explore something new.
(10:05):
And I just think it's so important to start to explore those as a player rather than wake up the day after you retired and go, oh, God, now what do I do? And obviously, as women, we don't normally have the same salaries as our male counterparts to think about that. But my argument, even for that, is that the male players should be thinking the same way. Because if you've woken up every day as a professional athlete to hit objectives, you have goals, you have things that need to be done. If you start waking up with no objectives and no goals, it might be fun for a couple of weeks, but after a while, you're going to get depressed and that's where the mental difficulties come in.
(10:40):
And there's been more topics on this, but I really think as club and as an ownership group, we owe it to our players to help them look at it differently and what that looks like for them.
Yeah, I think that's really important. And also, but I think it might be difficult for someone, a young player who just signed their first contract, to start thinking about, you know, the end of their career. Maybe they're so in it and they now they want to perform as a player and then to have that, you know, that long term scope.
(11:07):
So, 100%. But I don't think we're trying to tell them, okay, when you retire, you're going to be a doctor, or when you retire, you're going to be the CEO of the club. I mean, it can be as simple as starting to help them with their social media or their image or their branding. Right now it could be speaking classes, public speaking in order to do journalism or just, I mean, obviously, right now social media is a huge deal and the athletes who really take advantage of it and understand the algorithms, how they're posting, when they're posting the content that they're posting are extremely successful and they're able to probably make more money than they do on the pitch, male and female and across different sports.
(11:46):
And so there's, it's not necessarily, okay, what will be your exact career path the day after you retire. But what are skill sets that you can start to learn now and you can develop now and then, you know, maybe post career, now that you're so good at social media, you want to open up your own social media business. Maybe you want to be a producer. You really enjoy that aspect. Like, there's so many things, and especially for women, I feel like they're just not shown what you can do post career. Especially in the sports industry, we've seen a lot of the male counterparts get put into positions. Ironically, sometimes in women's football that they're not prepared for, that they should not be doing. But that's a whole different discussion. But women are not usually given that opportunity.
(12:28):
They're not kind of, this red carpet isn't rolled out post career and like, okay, work for the club here or do this. So why can't we start to help create those women through Mercury 13 to get them there?
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, that's, again, to your background. You were playing and also helping out with some things on the business side as well when you were playing, right?
(12:51):
Yeah. So I actually was a full time player at Paris Saint Germain, and I worked in the marketing department, building standalone sponsorship and new business development for the women's team. I was. I had gotten back to school and gotten my MBA in football, so I was prepared and understood the role and I wanted to be doing two things. Not all players are of the same mindset as I am, and that's totally okay. But I do think that we can give different outlets and different opportunities to help them or to guide them or just show them what's out there.
(13:25):
So you mentioned PSG is one of the, I guess, richest club in the world, almost. So one would assume that playing for the PSG women's team, you wouldn't need to have a second job. So we talked about salaries before you mentioned that. So where are we in women's football when it comes to salaries and be able to be professional full time?
(13:47):
This is a different topic and necessarily go into, yes, like how they choose a budget. They do have very big backers, but they still have a budget that they have to align with and, you know, answer. The women's department has to answer to somebody at the end of the year with a p and l. So you can't just go crazy whenever you want. Women's football is out of a very interesting crossroads right now because you have some clubs that do have big backing or have big budgets and are able to pay incredible salaries to a lot of players, but you still have a lot of women in the game that are barely making ends meet or, you know, struggling quite a bit to stay at that level.
(14:25):
And there's a huge discrepancy amongst the highest clubs or the first division and then going into those second and third division. So the pathways to get to the top is very complicated. And I really argue it's not just a salary thing, it's really the whole structure around the women's game. Because if you have enough to live or you're making a normal minimum wage playing football, that's great. But if you don't have a medical staff around you, if you don't have a coaching staff around you, if you don't have the proper equipment to play with, if you don't have the right gym to go into, I mean, having a big salary is, it's great, but God forbid you got hurt and you can't return to play, you lose your salary.
(15:04):
So for me, I think we should be more focused on the structures around the players and what needs to go into becoming a professional player than just trying to double and triple certain salaries. For me, I honestly would love to see even maybe a governing body step in and put a bit of a salary cap into the game so that the other clubs can then are almost forced to take that budget and put it into the structure around the players for a few years and make sure that everybody rises. Because in the women's game, I think there's a lot more collaboration, which is great, and there needs to because we can't have just one or two teams just, you know, roaring away like we've had in the past. It's not going to help the whole league, the whole ecosystem move forward.
(15:49):
There's only one, a few. Now the games are way more exciting, Champions League. But a few years ago, you waited only until the semis or finals to start watching because there were blowouts. So that's what I would like to see. And that's where I think we should focus on money rather than just trying to make huge salaries.
Yeah, that's a very interesting point of view, and I agree with you, but I feel also that the salary part is important because as a professional athlete, you are not creating a great cv out in the business world, so to speak. I mean, you're doing your sport and the career is shorter than the regular, so you might, at 35, you're done. And then that money needs to hold you a little bit longer. Otherwise if you have just made minimum wage and then at 35, you don't have really any buffer.
(16:35):
Well, I mean, I push back on you, Marcus, because there's a lot of people out in the world that work until 35 and only we're working minimum wage and then lose their job or something happened in life and they have to figure it out. So, I mean, I would love to, as I said, I'd love to help our players. So they've already been making other money through other aspects. And don't get me wrong, at Como, we pay well, so it's not that. And nor do I. And when I said minimum wage, I was not saying that UA fund fee for the governing body should come out and only put the salary cap at minimum wage. I just don't think the players should be making 1.2. Well, they have. That's amazing.
(17:09):
But making millions and going the direction of the men's game is not the best decision for me. I think the salary cap will be much higher than minimum wage. It was just an example of what needed to be done. But the problem comes in is when you look at the budgets for the clubs, and there's a lot of clubs out there, especially with male counterparts, and, you know, we'll say they give the women's side $100 if you spend $95 on your salary of players, $5 is not going to go very far in the structure of all the things going around.
(17:37):
And the most important thing, which I have thus far not seen, and something that Mercury 13 is really going to focus on, they're not putting people in commercial positions to bring in sponsorship to elevate the women social media teams to really engage with them and get a fan base coming. So now you have fans coming to the game and you have ticket sales and creating a cycle that's actually bringing in revenue and money for the women's team. They put in the $100, they give 95 in salaries, and then they get really mad when nobody's coming to the game or sponsors aren't running and handing them money, which is funny, because I don't know very many sponsors that run to men's clubs and just hand them money. There's still a sponsorship team and a commercial team out there trying to build the revenue.
(18:21):
So why are we doing so much of the budget just to salaries, where if we did more onto the commercial side and that sponsorship side and the whole budget rose, then we could put money, more money into our salaries and there would be a circular positive cycle of what's happening.
No, that's a really great point. And I mean, women's football, you mentioned it before, like, the quality is better, and now we are filling stadiums and there's this record breaking arenas all the time with the attendance. Now it's the time to commercialize, right?
(18:55):
I mean, I think the time to commercialize could have also been in the past and this would have happened a lot earlier, but we're at a great moment that things are happening.
Yes, for sure. So that's another quote. I don't remember who said it, but, like, the best time to invest in women's football would be 20 years ago, and the second best time is now. So that's what I mean, of course. Like, it could have been done earlier, but right now is a great opportunity.
(19:16):
Absolutely. It's a huge opportunity. And obviously, Mercury 13, we're jumping into that opportunity.
Yeah. So talking about women in the sports industry, not only on the playing field, you mentioned before, of course, it's a male dominated industry. So how do you think that we as a society can get more women into this industry?
(19:39):
Well, I'm actually building a platform on the side to help women get into the industry. We have velour sport. We're very nascent in our project, but we are about to go live next month, so might hit you back up, Marcus, and get your opinion on some stuff. We need male opinions, but we're building a platform. Myself and my co founder, Preeti Shetty, for women. So the platform is for women, but invites men. And the platform is a salary paychecker, where you go in, you answer lots and lots of questions. Everything is optional that you answer. But the more answers you give us, the more populated your dashboard will be. And so the more information you can have about salaries around the world and comparing your personal salary to others in the same industry, or.
(20:29):
Well, the industry is the sports industry, but across maybe different clubs or different sports. But for the women, we want to empower them and give them the data that will then give them the confidence to ask for a raise, to talk to their bosses, maybe to change career paths, or maybe they find out that they're doing really well, and now they're just much happier going to work every day, not worried that their male counterparts are making more money than them, or should they be doing something else. So there's a lot of different aspects to the platform and how women can engage with it, but we're really also not just trying to close the gender pay gap, but we're trying to bring a bit more transparency to the sports industry.
(21:06):
And talking about the transparency is where I see men coming to the platform, because they're also more than welcome to fill out the, all the questions and then check their own salaries. Where I say we're more focused on the women is the women can then pay to become members, which does not change how much data they can see. The data will always be free. I never want there to be a financial barrier to women. We already have enough financial barriers in almost every industry, but especially in sports. But, a membership will get you some workshops and some bespoke networking events and allow us to talk about certain topics that can be taboo or a little bit uncomfortable and with experts about why they are, why we're uncomfortable as women talking or doing certain things.
(21:47):
And then there's a business membership, and then it branches out to a whole bunch of other things. So it's quite exciting and it's a lot of fun. And, yeah, it gets done in my spare time and building also. It's like a little baby. And we have a village of women and men helping us raise this child that we really think just needs to get to market and help out everyone.
(22:08):
Yeah, that's amazing. And I guess you would need some men on the platform if you compare to those salaries. Or are you comparing to more like an industry standard are, no, 1000%.
We, we need men. We want men. Men are welcome to join. We're just trying to make it. It's a very complicated, not complicated, but a unique proposition because men can come. All the men listening, please join the platform. You're going to be able to see the data and benchmark yourself. You will not be limited to any information. We're just trying to make it more appealing to women. As women are usually pushed out of the sports industry, I've been a part of educational groups where I'm the only woman in the room. One of them I applied for, 500 men applied for ten spots, and three women applied. So just the mathematical numbers about women thinking they can or should do something is much smaller in business in general, but especially in sports.
(23:04):
And so we believe that if we make it more appealing to the women, then we can pull them in. If we made it a look that was for everyone from the visual perspective or just the tone of voice, then women might think, okay, it's sports. Again, I'm not welcome here. So we want to be much more welcoming and inviting to women. People say like that, we're inviting women and welcoming men.
(23:27):
That's a good one. So if you want to plug the website or the channels, I can put them in the show notes. How can they find it?
Yes, please do. So, anybody? It's balloorsport.com is our website, which, again, we will be going live. You can sign up to our newsletter and get information. You can follow us on socials, so on Instagram or LinkedIn. And we share a lot of information about salary and what's happening around the world and what's going on there. And we're really just kind of starting a movement to make the sports industry more transparent and to help women individually close the gender pay gap for themselves and making sure that we're all getting dollar for dollar. And that's. That's fuller sport. And I would love everybody to join or become a part of it or, you know, do their own little part in their own way. And if there's anybody out there who wants to help us or join our village, please reach out. We're a bunch of women.
(24:18):
And again, there's some men in there just building it because we know that this needs to be in the market.
Fantastic. So you are, as we have said, head of operations, Mercury sport. You are starting your own company to make it better for women in sports. And you're also a mom that you mentioned before. So how do you make your 24 hours in a day go around?
(24:42):
There's something in every hour, normally, even at nighttime, because my little one has decided now that she doesn't want to sleep through the night anymore. So mommy wakes up a lot, but I don't know. I feel like my life is just supercharged now. I've always been super busy, and even as a player, I couldn't sit still. So I was always learning or doing other things or creating businesses. And I just wanted to make sure that I used every minute of my life in a positive way or moving forward. I'm not really good at relaxing or just sitting around, which, to my detriment sometimes. Sometimes I really need to just chill, and I'm not very good at that. But there's lots of figuring out mommy time and trying to be really engaged and present with her.
(25:28):
And then there's also the aspect of, I think that the more I build and the more I do and the more that she sees me doing, that, even though she's only six months old right now, will encourage her and empower her to do the same thing. So while sometimes it's very hard to pass her to my nanny and come into my office and do some work, I know that later it will be good for her to see an example, but it's not easy. I don't recommend it for everyone. I know that sometime I think all moms and all people have to do things their way and what works for them. And right now, this is what's working for me. And maybe I'll need to change it a little bit very soon. But for me, personally, this is what works for me.
(26:10):
But, you know, for other moms, if it doesn't, you knew you, and you have to figure that out, just like as a player. For some players, you know, they could go run a marathon on the weekend and still play a game, and they're totally fine. And somebody like myself, if I had to go run that far, I'd be dead for quite a few days. So everybody's just different and has to figure out how they can perform on all cylinders for themselves, of course.
(26:33):
So sports is not a nine to five. So how do you think that sports organizations and companies can help parents and moms, maybe in specific, in order to be a mom and work?
I mean, they could join velour sport and become a business member, and we will help guide them step by step. So thanks for that plug, Marcus. But besides that, I don't think it's just sports organizations. Now that I've become a mom and understanding the system where I personally live in France right now, I'm surprised at how little help mothers are given to go back to work and what that looks like for society. And, and moms need it and dads need it, too. But sorry, guys, I'm just coming from the perspective of a mom. And the better moms can do than the happier dads will be, too. Like, it will be a circular cycle. But, just giving moms more help, whether that's funding or opportunities with nannies or nurseries. Also to, like, travel, how you travel, and obviously in the sports industry.
(27:36):
And my colleague vic, I'm so lucky that my boss has a young baby, too. I mean, the sports industry is not very accommodating. You can't take babies to stadiums. And, I mean, you can argue that maybe some stadiums shouldn't have babies in them, but there should be a way where women can enjoy sport as much as men. So maybe stadiums could have nurseries at the stadium, and then we could go to the game and the babies are fine. Or the daddies, you know, do that, too. There is a stadium now that's going to have baby parking, which is kind of cool for the strollers. That's super cute. But, yeah, I think a lot, a lot more could be done to really help women who want to go back to work. And, but want to be moms and want to be present.
(28:18):
And there's so much in that realm that could be done, for sure.
So step one is to join velour.
Step one is to join velour, all those businesses that want to know how to do it. We're making a step by step program to help you do it for the women and the men, though, too. Because if you give better paternity and better opportunities to men in your workforce, that will help the mothers a lot.
(28:42):
So I'm curious about how you got into sports in the first place. I know that you wanted to be like your sister growing up and, you know, play ball. So how did it start? From a young age and up until where we are now?
Yeah. So I started playing soccer because my older sister played soccer. My mom signed her up against my father's wishes. My dad originally wanted sons. He got daughters. And so when he got his daughters, he wanted to be the best hash girl dad ever. So he thought that women should be in classic female sports or opportunities. So dance, cheer, we did do karate, but very less of team sports, although I guess cheer is a team sport, whatever. And my sister was a little on the rounder side and she loved to read and she wasn't extremely active as a child. And so my mom really wanted to make sure that she'd be active.
(29:34):
And she saw a flyer to play soccer in town and she's like, oh, it's a great thing for my daughter to maybe get her more active and more engaged, and so she signed her up. She got my dad on board. The next year, my dad signed up to be my sister's coach. He flipped his girl dad switch and he was now hashtag super sport girl dad. And I saw her doing it and I wanted to do exactly what she did. So they signed me up and she was a goalkeeper, so I wanted to be a goalkeeper and kind of the rest is history. Then I just kept going and I had no fear and I was super ready to be a goalkeeper and dive and slide and get dirty and scraped and scratched and whatever else came with it.
(30:13):
And that had coaches wanting to work with me because just no fear of anything. And that allowed me to make youth teams. And then I went to college playing soccer. And then I came to Europe to play football.
So it's basically it, yeah, you've been around you know, Italy, France, Sweden, as well, we're pretty close from where I'm sitting right now. You've played it as in Kungspaqua as well? Quite the journey. Playing journey and seeing. Seeing the world.
(30:41):
Yeah, I've definitely seen the world through a bus window.
Is that how you see it?
That's how I see it. I have done amazing things and seen amazing things through a bus window. When you're traveling with football, you don't always get to get off the bus or do stuff, so I make jokes, but I've seen incredible things through bus windows.
I see also you have had some injuries in your career, some more severe than others. So how was that, and how did you overcome it?
(31:09):
Yeah, so in 2015, I tore my ACL, my MCL, my PCL, and both meniscus all in one go. You know, go big or go home. And I went big, but I didn't go home, actually. I stayed in France, and I was able to recuperate from that. It took me 18 months, and I made it back to the pitch. And how did I do it? I did it with a lot of family support and the people around me in the club that I was playing at, and just. It was the worst possible thing in the best possible place. I was a professional athlete. I was the only professional athlete on my team at the time. So I had a full contract, and because of that, everything was covered, not even just by the club, but it was actually covered by the state, by the country.
(31:54):
That allowed me to go to a professional rehab center. It allowed me to have. It allowed me to be paid because I was a professional. So I'd gotten work. It was workman's cop. I got injured at work, and that was a huge deal. And so going back a little bit, when you talked about salary is important, but being a professional and having a working contract in the country you're playing in, I would argue, is more important because that will give you more opportunities, one, while you're playing, and two, you talked about retiring. You pay into retirement, so you're actually helping yourself post career. And people don't realize how important being a professional is. And what professional is not more zeros in your bank account. Professional is protecting yourself as a person working for an organization on a lot of different levels.
(32:43):
And so I'm so thankful for that club. I'm so thankful, actually, that Jersey there. I'm so thankful for the people that were around me, for my family who supported me, and for everyone that just said I could come back and I would come back.
You didn't stop there. And you played on the highest level and I know you have dual citizenships, right? Italian and american.
(33:04):
Yes.
So how was the decision making for who to play for there?
I'm going to be totally honest, it wasn't my decision. I mean, it wasn't necessarily my decision. I knew the US wasn't going to call me and Italy did call me and it was a fantastic opportunity and I was really proud to be able to wear the flag on my shirt and get caps with the italian national team and understand a different culture, learn a different national anthem and play and just keep playing.
(33:32):
So which period was this? During which time?
When I played in Italy. So how old am I? 13 or 15 years ago?
I'm thinking back on the us national team because, like, the 99 ers and.
I'm not that old. Come on, Marco.
No, I know. But I was thinking back if some of them might have been. Because of course, us have had a strong national team on the women's side for a very long time.
(33:56):
I mean, to be fair, even if they haven't won, they're still a strong national team. No? The 99 ers. I was like, the 99 ers inspired me to play. Like, the 99 ers were my. The women on my wall, the posters, the Mia Ham, Brianna Scurry, brandy Chasse and Julie. I mean, I can name them all. Michelle Akers. I actually got to speak to Michelle Akers this week and I was so fangirling, it was amazing. But I went to the final. I was on tv, actually, at the final. Ironically, if you watch the Angel City documentary, you'll see my face pop up on the screen because all my friends took screenshots of, like, the film and then sent it to me that my face was there. But absolutely, like, they are. They're the women. The shoulders that I stand on today. Absolutely.
(34:42):
And I'm so happy for them and most of the women. The only thing I'd like to say though, is we focus so much on the 99 ers, we forget all the women that they played against in the tournament. That also helped us because if the 99 ers didn't have anybody to play against, we wouldn't be here either. So, there's a lot of untold stories. Anybody, works in media or writer actually. Please contact me because I have a great idea for you and you can run with it. I don't have time to do it whatsoever, but yeah, no, the 99 ers just were a huge part of my life and probably the reason why I am where I am today.
(35:15):
I heard somewhere that, like, 2022 was a year of visibility, like, to get visibility for women's football. Now we are almost halfway through 2024. So what do you think? Like, what, 20, 24, 25? What's, what is that the year of, for women's football commercial ability?
Yeah, I think now that we have people knowing who we are and seeing us now, it's about actually monetizing it. The visibility was there, but we had a lot of stuff that was not for free, but stuff was shown for free. Games were broadcast for free. You know, tickets, lots of tickets were given away, which is great. And not saying that we don't have to do that, but now I think it's understanding the market and monetizing it and how do you put a price point and what does that look like? And, and I think it's also talking about opening up the fan base and understanding who the fan base is. It's not just families and kids who watch women's football and who watch football.
(36:09):
There's a lot of men that watch football, and there's a lot of single women or women who don't want kids or women who have kids that are raised or, like, there's just a lot of different fans out there. And I think it's also the time to stop only marketing to families.
It is a different product, though, that's in my, how I see it. Like women's football versus men football, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't apply to the same target group.
(36:35):
I think it could be the same target group, but not like, I mean, even at PSG, when I was working there, when they did the research, the target group was actually 18 to, like, 34 year old men. And some of those crossed over and watched the men's game, but not all of them did, or they'd had, like, a bad experience going to a men's game and they enjoyed more going to the women's game. And so I think I don't work in that level of knowing the numbers and the data around those aspects. So I guess it's the same target if you say male of a certain age group, but I think there's different attributes that go to them. And again, I think it's like two circles and they cross over.
(37:08):
And in the middle, you have a lot of crossover, but sometimes you have people on each side that are different. You have women that might have had bad experience going to men's games, but they still really want to be aligned or connected to something that they can believe in and that they can sing with and they can chant and they can feel a community around something. And that's a really great opportunity, too, for women's football to invite these women to the games and engage them and their likes and their interests and bring in sponsors for them for sure.
(37:37):
So you have given some advice, I guess, for women already. But if you have some additional advice for women who want to pursue a career in the sports industry, just do it.
Not Nike plugging, but just go do it. Don't be worried. And everybody has imposter syndrome sometimes, and even men have an imposter syndrome. This is not only a female problem, but you figure it out as you do it and you're going to make huge mistakes and you're going to fall on your face, but you can get back up and really just go do it and then start to learn. And I think one of the big things to find your niche or find your passion within the sports industry. So if it's women's football, if it's women's sports, then do that. If it's men's, do that. But get good in understanding your niche so that people are going to challenge you. But you know what you're talking about within that.
(38:25):
So if you're a great marketer, you're a great sponsorshippers and you're great social media, like really know your niche inside and out and that will help you.
Yeah, for sure. And maybe now sports sponsorship on the women's football side is going to be an area that's going to grow rapidly the next couple of years.
I think it will. And I think it's huge. And I, and I think there's a huge opportunity for people with that skill set to really engage and not just try to sell it for so long. Trying to sell to women who watch sport in general or trying to sell to women's sports, they shrink it and pink it and we don't want it shrunk and we don't want it pink. It's really understanding that market. How do you sell to it? What does it look like when my baby's bigger and I'm not breastfeeding anymore? I drink beer and I will drink beer again. And why do all the commercials with beer are a bunch of guys like, I definitely cheers when we score and I'll have a beer with my sister or with my girlfriend and watch champions League.
(39:22):
So why aren't the Commercials geared towards me and what that looks like for me? So I think there's a huge market there and I think the agencies and people need to start looking at it differently. Don't just take the same thing that you've done in men's sports and then flip a color or just flip the actors in the commercial.
Agreed. Is there something I haven't asked you yet that you want to mention?
(39:47):
Well, I think it's one thing that I want to add to the advice to women. Not just do it, but go for it. Like apply to the job that you're maybe not prepared for. Apply, apply, try go for it again. You're going to get a lot of no's, but you never know when you're going to get a yes and just talk to as many people and put yourself out there and put yourself in uncomfortable situations because that's only going to make you better and allow you to grow and people know who you are because the sports industry is a lot of networking and people knowing who you are for sure.
(40:22):
And you love that. I love that you said that because I usually end this podcast with the networking question and it is who from your network do you think would be a good guest on this podcast?
Well, obviously Preeti Shetty, my co founder of Velour. So she can come and share more, 100% for sure.
There you go.
Absolutely. I mean, there's tons of people out there, though, that are fantastic. But I do have to plug velour and I would love for you to have Preeti on here because probably by the time she comes, we'll be up and running and then we can get more people to the platform. But no, there's tons of people, I'm sure. Well, Marcus, can I ask you a question?
(40:57):
You can?
Okay, so I have a couple. What is the coolest thing you've learned from one of your interviewees or something that you're like, never thought of that, or that is just so valuable, like you should share it again is I.
Talked to Andrew Brandt from, he was a VP at the Green Bay packers, and it's about career choice in sports. When you apply for a job, one of the arguments that many use is that I love sports, I love Nike, I wear it all the time. But that's not really what they need. They don't need someone who only loves the brand. So what's your uniqueness? What makes you great at this position? For example, if you're in social media, can you show, do you have something to show for it? Like did you have a page that you grew to ex followers? Or I mean, graphic design here are some previous designs that I have. Like to show more that and not just say like that, oh, I love sports. I have a big passion for sports 100%.
(41:54):
So basically you copied me when I say find your niche in the industry.
Exactly.
No, I think, yeah, I think your USP is super big, and I think that's actually a really good point. Being a fan does not make you good at the job.
Exactly.
Okay, that's super cool. What other questions I have for you, because I feel like you've had super interesting people on here. Had another one, and I just lost it, baby brain and not being able to sleep. All right, we'll just go with that one. Maybe I'll think of something else for you. I think you should let somebody interview you on all the things you've learned from people, and then you can put it all together and then have a supernote version of all these talks.
(42:32):
Yeah, I think that's good. And actually they say that's like a good way to appear on other podcasts. Grows your own podcast, so maybe I need to look at that.
Yeah, definitely. Because I feel like you could just talk about all the learnings that you've been given. That's like, here's my mini mba on what I've learned from all my guests. Here's the networking part. Oh, what's the best networking tip that.
(42:54):
Would say, just like, reach out to don't be. That's what I do. And I think as long as you're professional and polite, the worst thing that can happen is a no or that they don't answer you, but you don't really have anything to lose. I have hunched way beyond my weight many times when it comes to guests on this podcast or all the time, actually, when you don't have anything to lose and do your research, not just send out the gen. I hate that because I get pitches all the time. And it says, for high sports management podcast, we would like this guy to appear. Yeah. Okay. I say my name in the intro. If you listen 10 seconds into the episode, you know my name. You can do that research.
(43:31):
Yeah.
So do some research. Don't send out something generic. Say dear hi, Ariana. Dear Ariana, I like that you did Xyz. And I would really like to connect with you because of XYZ recent, so forth.
I've said that to a few students. For me, too. If you send me a personalized note, I will. Me personally, I will for sure, like, say yes on LinkedIn or any social. If you just message like, just send me an invite. I probably won't just because you get a lot of invites, but if somebody takes the time to message, you and most of my colleagues are the same. So I think that's a really good advice. Great advice. Cool. Well, thank you, Marcus.
(44:14):
Thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the sports fantasy podcast. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss out on any upcoming episodes. Also, feel free to leave a comment about what you thought about this episode. If you want to get in contact with me, send an email to sportsmpodcastmail.com or hit me up on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. Sports m podcast.
Welcome to Sports Management podcast, where you will hear interesting sports management professionals share their stories, experiences and passion for the sports management industry. I am your host, Marcus Philipson. Welcome to episode 151 of Sports Management podcast. If you have ever learned anything from this show, please show your gratitude by subscribing to the podcast in your podcast app. And if you feel extra generous, leave a five star review. This will help the show grow and the bigger the show, the bigger the guests. Thank you. Today's guest is Ariana Criscioni, a former professional soccer player and the current founding member and head of football operations for Mercury 13. She's also the founder of Velour Sports, whose mission is to be the voice of pay equity within the sports industry, empowering women with tools, skills and networks to overcome institutional bias.
(01:00):
We spoke about her professional soccer career playing for the italian national team instead of USA. What the 99 ers has meant to her Mercury Thirteen's first club, FC Como Women, how organizations can help mothers juggle work and family, why she started velour sport, and much more. Ariana Crisioni, welcome to Sports management podcast.
(01:27):
Thank you. Excited to be here.
I'm very excited to have you on. So you are currently a founding member and head of football operations for Mercury 13. So can you tell us a little bit about this role?
Yes, it's a very exciting role, obviously. No, I'm just kidding. No, it is a very cool role. Basically, as you know, you've had a lot of my colleagues on, and you guys probably know a bit about Mercury 13, but I get to do the really fun part, the football part. So anything that happens on the pitch and directly around the pitch is under my vertical of football operations. But this really means that I'm working very closely with all the sporting directors of our clubs, helping them with what they need and maybe helping them with the strategy of where we want the club to go and what it should be doing. But I think it's really important for us to share, though, that the clubs we are buying, we like their football and what they're doing already.
(02:22):
And obviously my colleagues have explained that it's really a focus on the commercial. So I'm here to chat with them, to bounce ideas off of them, to maybe make them think of things in a way that they haven't so far. But by no means are we coming from our level and telling them what players need to be bought and sold and what their job is. We are very happy with the club, especially Como and the sporting director there, and we give them all the faith and put it in their hands to guide the team. Exactly what happens on the pitch.
(02:49):
Interesting. And you mentioned FC Como that when I've talked to your colleagues from Mercury 13 that was not yet announced. So now this is out in the open. So from your point of view as head of football operations, what are you doing and helping them with more specifically on this team?
So with this team specifically, again, working very closely with the sporting director, understanding the current staff, what's needed, what the players directly need, helping build out a strategy moving forward for those players. So there's some fun stuff that we're thinking about that really gets me excited is the holistic player development. So not just how we're helping the players on the pitch, that's super important. But what we can do off the pitch and what added value can we give to the players, whether that's looking them, looking at them as women and their bodies completely as female bodies. So what extra things are needed? What kind of exams might be needed for a female body that we can happily give them and then make sure that their whole body is ready to go on the football pitch?
(03:48):
Not just the aspects from a sporting perspective, language lessons, having different conversations about post career or things that they're interested in, that we can connect them either internally or through our networks to chat with people, understand different industries, understand what they could do post career thinking about some of them might want to do coaching courses. So how can we help them get access to those courses or get confidence to go do those courses since most of those courses are a male dominated industry and it's very hard to get certain licenses.
(04:17):
So there's a lot of things that we're thinking about and starting to implement for next season, which will be really fun and hopefully that the players really see the value in it and understand that we really care about them, not just how they perform on the pitch, but who they are off the pitch.
So I assume also that you were involved in the acquisition of the club. So what was when you're looking at the prerequisites for what you see in a club and why you wanted, why did you decide in the end for FC Como?
(04:46):
Como is just a fantastic club in itself. It is an independent women's club and we're not only going after Independence women's club, but for our first club it made a lot of sense to go to como. They have an incredible pre existing staff, but staff also back in staff and they have this incredible spirit of family and it sounds so cliche to say it like that, but they truly do. And they've built something so incredible that on paper, when you look at who they're competing against and how they're competing, they shouldn't be as successful as they are, but they are because of the environment that's been built around them and the people who are there.
(05:24):
And so when we talked to the owner and the president, he understood that he had done an incredible job and we're so thankful for the job that he's done. But he realized that he couldn't really take Como to the next step. He is not somebody that's really into. Well, he's into football now with the women's team, but he didn't have a huge background in football. He comes, he's a business owner and so he wanted to make sure that he brought people in that could help. He's staying, he's a part of our board and he'll stay president, which is amazing. So we're not taking anything away from them. We just get to add value. But we really chose como because of the people that are there and the people that we're going to keep there.
(05:59):
And then who doesn't want to have to go to como for work all the time, obviously. No, it's a beautiful place. Italy is a beautiful country. Women's football is moving up and there and it was just a fantastic opportunity with fantastic people.
Yeah, I saw some pictures from the press release and it looked beautiful.
Oh, it's fantastic. No, it's an amazing place.
(06:20):
If the listeners don't really know your background, you're a professional football player for many years as a goalkeeper and has played in several countries. So how much of your background now comes in handy in your role as head of football operations?
Every day, every decision is coming from the lens of what I wanted as a player. And how can I do that as the owner? So looking at it from both aspects of what would I have really needed as a player, what would have got me playing better or what would have helped me? And then from the owner perspective, okay, what is realistic, what can we financially do? How can we be creative to maybe make everything come true? How can we listen to the players and understand and talk to them? So every decision has that lens.
(07:05):
Yeah. So for example, let's say you played in FC 20 in approximately ten years ago. So, you know, looking from there up until now, a lot of happen, especially in women's football, women's soccer. So what things you didn't have then that you could have had and that you now want to help out with the current situation?
Is it really ten years ago? So I'm going to take it even farther back because I would say almost, not 20 years ago, like 15 years ago, I actually did play in Italy. So understanding the landscape of what it looked like back then to now is a huge difference in understanding what were. I don't like the word given, but the opportunity that we had to play and were being paid well. When were paid, were being paid technically, and we had apartments and stuff like that. And so just the steps that women's football has taken and the professionalization of the game and the league and the visibility is hugely different.
(07:59):
But I think about it then, and even then, just what are the things I needed, especially as a foreigner playing in a different country with a different language and a different culture, what does that look like? And how can I help my players? And then on the other side, the Italians, this is their home, and this is, you know, their city or their town or them leaving home. Like, thinking about all of these different aspects makes me want to give more to our players and want to help them just because I've been in their shoes. So that. Did I answer the question or did I go on a random tangent? I'm not sure now.
(08:31):
No, no, it was good. But if there are some specific things that you. You didn't like the word given, but opportunities or things that you didn't have that you thought that you would have benefited you if you had, is that something that you now can give or provide to the current teams?
So I think, yeah, so one of the big things is nobody ever talked about what happens when you don't want to play anymore, when you can't play anymore, when whatever that is. And this is something that I've spoken about quite often, but it's something that's really important to me that athletes should be thinking about post career. The first day they signed their very first contract at 1516 2020, whatever that is, one day you will stop and you do not want your whole identity only to be as a football player. I mean, it's really funny, but it's off topic. I did a mom event this morning, and some of the moms were introducing themselves, and they never said their name because their whole identity is now the baby.
(09:26):
And not to compare football to that, but if you lose yourself and your whole identity, it becomes very complicated to find yourself again. And I'm of the mindset that if you always know who you are and you keep who you are, you will better at those other hats that you put on. And so for the players, I want to help them find out who they are off the pitch. I truly believe that will make them better on the pitch. And again, in 1020, 30, 50 years down the line, when they decide to retire and they have given themselves other experiences and other opportunities, they're going to be okay or happy with the retirement, knowing that they gave everything to football and now they get to explore something new.
(10:05):
And I just think it's so important to start to explore those as a player rather than wake up the day after you retired and go, oh, God, now what do I do? And obviously, as women, we don't normally have the same salaries as our male counterparts to think about that. But my argument, even for that, is that the male players should be thinking the same way. Because if you've woken up every day as a professional athlete to hit objectives, you have goals, you have things that need to be done. If you start waking up with no objectives and no goals, it might be fun for a couple of weeks, but after a while, you're going to get depressed and that's where the mental difficulties come in.
(10:40):
And there's been more topics on this, but I really think as club and as an ownership group, we owe it to our players to help them look at it differently and what that looks like for them.
Yeah, I think that's really important. And also, but I think it might be difficult for someone, a young player who just signed their first contract, to start thinking about, you know, the end of their career. Maybe they're so in it and they now they want to perform as a player and then to have that, you know, that long term scope.
(11:07):
So, 100%. But I don't think we're trying to tell them, okay, when you retire, you're going to be a doctor, or when you retire, you're going to be the CEO of the club. I mean, it can be as simple as starting to help them with their social media or their image or their branding. Right now it could be speaking classes, public speaking in order to do journalism or just, I mean, obviously, right now social media is a huge deal and the athletes who really take advantage of it and understand the algorithms, how they're posting, when they're posting the content that they're posting are extremely successful and they're able to probably make more money than they do on the pitch, male and female and across different sports.
(11:46):
And so there's, it's not necessarily, okay, what will be your exact career path the day after you retire. But what are skill sets that you can start to learn now and you can develop now and then, you know, maybe post career, now that you're so good at social media, you want to open up your own social media business. Maybe you want to be a producer. You really enjoy that aspect. Like, there's so many things, and especially for women, I feel like they're just not shown what you can do post career. Especially in the sports industry, we've seen a lot of the male counterparts get put into positions. Ironically, sometimes in women's football that they're not prepared for, that they should not be doing. But that's a whole different discussion. But women are not usually given that opportunity.
(12:28):
They're not kind of, this red carpet isn't rolled out post career and like, okay, work for the club here or do this. So why can't we start to help create those women through Mercury 13 to get them there?
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, that's, again, to your background. You were playing and also helping out with some things on the business side as well when you were playing, right?
(12:51):
Yeah. So I actually was a full time player at Paris Saint Germain, and I worked in the marketing department, building standalone sponsorship and new business development for the women's team. I was. I had gotten back to school and gotten my MBA in football, so I was prepared and understood the role and I wanted to be doing two things. Not all players are of the same mindset as I am, and that's totally okay. But I do think that we can give different outlets and different opportunities to help them or to guide them or just show them what's out there.
(13:25):
So you mentioned PSG is one of the, I guess, richest club in the world, almost. So one would assume that playing for the PSG women's team, you wouldn't need to have a second job. So we talked about salaries before you mentioned that. So where are we in women's football when it comes to salaries and be able to be professional full time?
(13:47):
This is a different topic and necessarily go into, yes, like how they choose a budget. They do have very big backers, but they still have a budget that they have to align with and, you know, answer. The women's department has to answer to somebody at the end of the year with a p and l. So you can't just go crazy whenever you want. Women's football is out of a very interesting crossroads right now because you have some clubs that do have big backing or have big budgets and are able to pay incredible salaries to a lot of players, but you still have a lot of women in the game that are barely making ends meet or, you know, struggling quite a bit to stay at that level.
(14:25):
And there's a huge discrepancy amongst the highest clubs or the first division and then going into those second and third division. So the pathways to get to the top is very complicated. And I really argue it's not just a salary thing, it's really the whole structure around the women's game. Because if you have enough to live or you're making a normal minimum wage playing football, that's great. But if you don't have a medical staff around you, if you don't have a coaching staff around you, if you don't have the proper equipment to play with, if you don't have the right gym to go into, I mean, having a big salary is, it's great, but God forbid you got hurt and you can't return to play, you lose your salary.
(15:04):
So for me, I think we should be more focused on the structures around the players and what needs to go into becoming a professional player than just trying to double and triple certain salaries. For me, I honestly would love to see even maybe a governing body step in and put a bit of a salary cap into the game so that the other clubs can then are almost forced to take that budget and put it into the structure around the players for a few years and make sure that everybody rises. Because in the women's game, I think there's a lot more collaboration, which is great, and there needs to because we can't have just one or two teams just, you know, roaring away like we've had in the past. It's not going to help the whole league, the whole ecosystem move forward.
(15:49):
There's only one, a few. Now the games are way more exciting, Champions League. But a few years ago, you waited only until the semis or finals to start watching because there were blowouts. So that's what I would like to see. And that's where I think we should focus on money rather than just trying to make huge salaries.
Yeah, that's a very interesting point of view, and I agree with you, but I feel also that the salary part is important because as a professional athlete, you are not creating a great cv out in the business world, so to speak. I mean, you're doing your sport and the career is shorter than the regular, so you might, at 35, you're done. And then that money needs to hold you a little bit longer. Otherwise if you have just made minimum wage and then at 35, you don't have really any buffer.
(16:35):
Well, I mean, I push back on you, Marcus, because there's a lot of people out in the world that work until 35 and only we're working minimum wage and then lose their job or something happened in life and they have to figure it out. So, I mean, I would love to, as I said, I'd love to help our players. So they've already been making other money through other aspects. And don't get me wrong, at Como, we pay well, so it's not that. And nor do I. And when I said minimum wage, I was not saying that UA fund fee for the governing body should come out and only put the salary cap at minimum wage. I just don't think the players should be making 1.2. Well, they have. That's amazing.
(17:09):
But making millions and going the direction of the men's game is not the best decision for me. I think the salary cap will be much higher than minimum wage. It was just an example of what needed to be done. But the problem comes in is when you look at the budgets for the clubs, and there's a lot of clubs out there, especially with male counterparts, and, you know, we'll say they give the women's side $100 if you spend $95 on your salary of players, $5 is not going to go very far in the structure of all the things going around.
(17:37):
And the most important thing, which I have thus far not seen, and something that Mercury 13 is really going to focus on, they're not putting people in commercial positions to bring in sponsorship to elevate the women social media teams to really engage with them and get a fan base coming. So now you have fans coming to the game and you have ticket sales and creating a cycle that's actually bringing in revenue and money for the women's team. They put in the $100, they give 95 in salaries, and then they get really mad when nobody's coming to the game or sponsors aren't running and handing them money, which is funny, because I don't know very many sponsors that run to men's clubs and just hand them money. There's still a sponsorship team and a commercial team out there trying to build the revenue.
(18:21):
So why are we doing so much of the budget just to salaries, where if we did more onto the commercial side and that sponsorship side and the whole budget rose, then we could put money, more money into our salaries and there would be a circular positive cycle of what's happening.
No, that's a really great point. And I mean, women's football, you mentioned it before, like, the quality is better, and now we are filling stadiums and there's this record breaking arenas all the time with the attendance. Now it's the time to commercialize, right?
(18:55):
I mean, I think the time to commercialize could have also been in the past and this would have happened a lot earlier, but we're at a great moment that things are happening.
Yes, for sure. So that's another quote. I don't remember who said it, but, like, the best time to invest in women's football would be 20 years ago, and the second best time is now. So that's what I mean, of course. Like, it could have been done earlier, but right now is a great opportunity.
(19:16):
Absolutely. It's a huge opportunity. And obviously, Mercury 13, we're jumping into that opportunity.
Yeah. So talking about women in the sports industry, not only on the playing field, you mentioned before, of course, it's a male dominated industry. So how do you think that we as a society can get more women into this industry?
(19:39):
Well, I'm actually building a platform on the side to help women get into the industry. We have velour sport. We're very nascent in our project, but we are about to go live next month, so might hit you back up, Marcus, and get your opinion on some stuff. We need male opinions, but we're building a platform. Myself and my co founder, Preeti Shetty, for women. So the platform is for women, but invites men. And the platform is a salary paychecker, where you go in, you answer lots and lots of questions. Everything is optional that you answer. But the more answers you give us, the more populated your dashboard will be. And so the more information you can have about salaries around the world and comparing your personal salary to others in the same industry, or.
(20:29):
Well, the industry is the sports industry, but across maybe different clubs or different sports. But for the women, we want to empower them and give them the data that will then give them the confidence to ask for a raise, to talk to their bosses, maybe to change career paths, or maybe they find out that they're doing really well, and now they're just much happier going to work every day, not worried that their male counterparts are making more money than them, or should they be doing something else. So there's a lot of different aspects to the platform and how women can engage with it, but we're really also not just trying to close the gender pay gap, but we're trying to bring a bit more transparency to the sports industry.
(21:06):
And talking about the transparency is where I see men coming to the platform, because they're also more than welcome to fill out the, all the questions and then check their own salaries. Where I say we're more focused on the women is the women can then pay to become members, which does not change how much data they can see. The data will always be free. I never want there to be a financial barrier to women. We already have enough financial barriers in almost every industry, but especially in sports. But, a membership will get you some workshops and some bespoke networking events and allow us to talk about certain topics that can be taboo or a little bit uncomfortable and with experts about why they are, why we're uncomfortable as women talking or doing certain things.
(21:47):
And then there's a business membership, and then it branches out to a whole bunch of other things. So it's quite exciting and it's a lot of fun. And, yeah, it gets done in my spare time and building also. It's like a little baby. And we have a village of women and men helping us raise this child that we really think just needs to get to market and help out everyone.
(22:08):
Yeah, that's amazing. And I guess you would need some men on the platform if you compare to those salaries. Or are you comparing to more like an industry standard are, no, 1000%.
We, we need men. We want men. Men are welcome to join. We're just trying to make it. It's a very complicated, not complicated, but a unique proposition because men can come. All the men listening, please join the platform. You're going to be able to see the data and benchmark yourself. You will not be limited to any information. We're just trying to make it more appealing to women. As women are usually pushed out of the sports industry, I've been a part of educational groups where I'm the only woman in the room. One of them I applied for, 500 men applied for ten spots, and three women applied. So just the mathematical numbers about women thinking they can or should do something is much smaller in business in general, but especially in sports.
(23:04):
And so we believe that if we make it more appealing to the women, then we can pull them in. If we made it a look that was for everyone from the visual perspective or just the tone of voice, then women might think, okay, it's sports. Again, I'm not welcome here. So we want to be much more welcoming and inviting to women. People say like that, we're inviting women and welcoming men.
(23:27):
That's a good one. So if you want to plug the website or the channels, I can put them in the show notes. How can they find it?
Yes, please do. So, anybody? It's balloorsport.com is our website, which, again, we will be going live. You can sign up to our newsletter and get information. You can follow us on socials, so on Instagram or LinkedIn. And we share a lot of information about salary and what's happening around the world and what's going on there. And we're really just kind of starting a movement to make the sports industry more transparent and to help women individually close the gender pay gap for themselves and making sure that we're all getting dollar for dollar. And that's. That's fuller sport. And I would love everybody to join or become a part of it or, you know, do their own little part in their own way. And if there's anybody out there who wants to help us or join our village, please reach out. We're a bunch of women.
(24:18):
And again, there's some men in there just building it because we know that this needs to be in the market.
Fantastic. So you are, as we have said, head of operations, Mercury sport. You are starting your own company to make it better for women in sports. And you're also a mom that you mentioned before. So how do you make your 24 hours in a day go around?
(24:42):
There's something in every hour, normally, even at nighttime, because my little one has decided now that she doesn't want to sleep through the night anymore. So mommy wakes up a lot, but I don't know. I feel like my life is just supercharged now. I've always been super busy, and even as a player, I couldn't sit still. So I was always learning or doing other things or creating businesses. And I just wanted to make sure that I used every minute of my life in a positive way or moving forward. I'm not really good at relaxing or just sitting around, which, to my detriment sometimes. Sometimes I really need to just chill, and I'm not very good at that. But there's lots of figuring out mommy time and trying to be really engaged and present with her.
(25:28):
And then there's also the aspect of, I think that the more I build and the more I do and the more that she sees me doing, that, even though she's only six months old right now, will encourage her and empower her to do the same thing. So while sometimes it's very hard to pass her to my nanny and come into my office and do some work, I know that later it will be good for her to see an example, but it's not easy. I don't recommend it for everyone. I know that sometime I think all moms and all people have to do things their way and what works for them. And right now, this is what's working for me. And maybe I'll need to change it a little bit very soon. But for me, personally, this is what works for me.
(26:10):
But, you know, for other moms, if it doesn't, you knew you, and you have to figure that out, just like as a player. For some players, you know, they could go run a marathon on the weekend and still play a game, and they're totally fine. And somebody like myself, if I had to go run that far, I'd be dead for quite a few days. So everybody's just different and has to figure out how they can perform on all cylinders for themselves, of course.
(26:33):
So sports is not a nine to five. So how do you think that sports organizations and companies can help parents and moms, maybe in specific, in order to be a mom and work?
I mean, they could join velour sport and become a business member, and we will help guide them step by step. So thanks for that plug, Marcus. But besides that, I don't think it's just sports organizations. Now that I've become a mom and understanding the system where I personally live in France right now, I'm surprised at how little help mothers are given to go back to work and what that looks like for society. And, and moms need it and dads need it, too. But sorry, guys, I'm just coming from the perspective of a mom. And the better moms can do than the happier dads will be, too. Like, it will be a circular cycle. But, just giving moms more help, whether that's funding or opportunities with nannies or nurseries. Also to, like, travel, how you travel, and obviously in the sports industry.
(27:36):
And my colleague vic, I'm so lucky that my boss has a young baby, too. I mean, the sports industry is not very accommodating. You can't take babies to stadiums. And, I mean, you can argue that maybe some stadiums shouldn't have babies in them, but there should be a way where women can enjoy sport as much as men. So maybe stadiums could have nurseries at the stadium, and then we could go to the game and the babies are fine. Or the daddies, you know, do that, too. There is a stadium now that's going to have baby parking, which is kind of cool for the strollers. That's super cute. But, yeah, I think a lot, a lot more could be done to really help women who want to go back to work. And, but want to be moms and want to be present.
(28:18):
And there's so much in that realm that could be done, for sure.
So step one is to join velour.
Step one is to join velour, all those businesses that want to know how to do it. We're making a step by step program to help you do it for the women and the men, though, too. Because if you give better paternity and better opportunities to men in your workforce, that will help the mothers a lot.
(28:42):
So I'm curious about how you got into sports in the first place. I know that you wanted to be like your sister growing up and, you know, play ball. So how did it start? From a young age and up until where we are now?
Yeah. So I started playing soccer because my older sister played soccer. My mom signed her up against my father's wishes. My dad originally wanted sons. He got daughters. And so when he got his daughters, he wanted to be the best hash girl dad ever. So he thought that women should be in classic female sports or opportunities. So dance, cheer, we did do karate, but very less of team sports, although I guess cheer is a team sport, whatever. And my sister was a little on the rounder side and she loved to read and she wasn't extremely active as a child. And so my mom really wanted to make sure that she'd be active.
(29:34):
And she saw a flyer to play soccer in town and she's like, oh, it's a great thing for my daughter to maybe get her more active and more engaged, and so she signed her up. She got my dad on board. The next year, my dad signed up to be my sister's coach. He flipped his girl dad switch and he was now hashtag super sport girl dad. And I saw her doing it and I wanted to do exactly what she did. So they signed me up and she was a goalkeeper, so I wanted to be a goalkeeper and kind of the rest is history. Then I just kept going and I had no fear and I was super ready to be a goalkeeper and dive and slide and get dirty and scraped and scratched and whatever else came with it.
(30:13):
And that had coaches wanting to work with me because just no fear of anything. And that allowed me to make youth teams. And then I went to college playing soccer. And then I came to Europe to play football.
So it's basically it, yeah, you've been around you know, Italy, France, Sweden, as well, we're pretty close from where I'm sitting right now. You've played it as in Kungspaqua as well? Quite the journey. Playing journey and seeing. Seeing the world.
(30:41):
Yeah, I've definitely seen the world through a bus window.
Is that how you see it?
That's how I see it. I have done amazing things and seen amazing things through a bus window. When you're traveling with football, you don't always get to get off the bus or do stuff, so I make jokes, but I've seen incredible things through bus windows.
I see also you have had some injuries in your career, some more severe than others. So how was that, and how did you overcome it?
(31:09):
Yeah, so in 2015, I tore my ACL, my MCL, my PCL, and both meniscus all in one go. You know, go big or go home. And I went big, but I didn't go home, actually. I stayed in France, and I was able to recuperate from that. It took me 18 months, and I made it back to the pitch. And how did I do it? I did it with a lot of family support and the people around me in the club that I was playing at, and just. It was the worst possible thing in the best possible place. I was a professional athlete. I was the only professional athlete on my team at the time. So I had a full contract, and because of that, everything was covered, not even just by the club, but it was actually covered by the state, by the country.
(31:54):
That allowed me to go to a professional rehab center. It allowed me to have. It allowed me to be paid because I was a professional. So I'd gotten work. It was workman's cop. I got injured at work, and that was a huge deal. And so going back a little bit, when you talked about salary is important, but being a professional and having a working contract in the country you're playing in, I would argue, is more important because that will give you more opportunities, one, while you're playing, and two, you talked about retiring. You pay into retirement, so you're actually helping yourself post career. And people don't realize how important being a professional is. And what professional is not more zeros in your bank account. Professional is protecting yourself as a person working for an organization on a lot of different levels.
(32:43):
And so I'm so thankful for that club. I'm so thankful, actually, that Jersey there. I'm so thankful for the people that were around me, for my family who supported me, and for everyone that just said I could come back and I would come back.
You didn't stop there. And you played on the highest level and I know you have dual citizenships, right? Italian and american.
(33:04):
Yes.
So how was the decision making for who to play for there?
I'm going to be totally honest, it wasn't my decision. I mean, it wasn't necessarily my decision. I knew the US wasn't going to call me and Italy did call me and it was a fantastic opportunity and I was really proud to be able to wear the flag on my shirt and get caps with the italian national team and understand a different culture, learn a different national anthem and play and just keep playing.
(33:32):
So which period was this? During which time?
When I played in Italy. So how old am I? 13 or 15 years ago?
I'm thinking back on the us national team because, like, the 99 ers and.
I'm not that old. Come on, Marco.
No, I know. But I was thinking back if some of them might have been. Because of course, us have had a strong national team on the women's side for a very long time.
(33:56):
I mean, to be fair, even if they haven't won, they're still a strong national team. No? The 99 ers. I was like, the 99 ers inspired me to play. Like, the 99 ers were my. The women on my wall, the posters, the Mia Ham, Brianna Scurry, brandy Chasse and Julie. I mean, I can name them all. Michelle Akers. I actually got to speak to Michelle Akers this week and I was so fangirling, it was amazing. But I went to the final. I was on tv, actually, at the final. Ironically, if you watch the Angel City documentary, you'll see my face pop up on the screen because all my friends took screenshots of, like, the film and then sent it to me that my face was there. But absolutely, like, they are. They're the women. The shoulders that I stand on today. Absolutely.
(34:42):
And I'm so happy for them and most of the women. The only thing I'd like to say though, is we focus so much on the 99 ers, we forget all the women that they played against in the tournament. That also helped us because if the 99 ers didn't have anybody to play against, we wouldn't be here either. So, there's a lot of untold stories. Anybody, works in media or writer actually. Please contact me because I have a great idea for you and you can run with it. I don't have time to do it whatsoever, but yeah, no, the 99 ers just were a huge part of my life and probably the reason why I am where I am today.
(35:15):
I heard somewhere that, like, 2022 was a year of visibility, like, to get visibility for women's football. Now we are almost halfway through 2024. So what do you think? Like, what, 20, 24, 25? What's, what is that the year of, for women's football commercial ability?
Yeah, I think now that we have people knowing who we are and seeing us now, it's about actually monetizing it. The visibility was there, but we had a lot of stuff that was not for free, but stuff was shown for free. Games were broadcast for free. You know, tickets, lots of tickets were given away, which is great. And not saying that we don't have to do that, but now I think it's understanding the market and monetizing it and how do you put a price point and what does that look like? And, and I think it's also talking about opening up the fan base and understanding who the fan base is. It's not just families and kids who watch women's football and who watch football.
(36:09):
There's a lot of men that watch football, and there's a lot of single women or women who don't want kids or women who have kids that are raised or, like, there's just a lot of different fans out there. And I think it's also the time to stop only marketing to families.
It is a different product, though, that's in my, how I see it. Like women's football versus men football, but it doesn't mean that it doesn't apply to the same target group.
(36:35):
I think it could be the same target group, but not like, I mean, even at PSG, when I was working there, when they did the research, the target group was actually 18 to, like, 34 year old men. And some of those crossed over and watched the men's game, but not all of them did, or they'd had, like, a bad experience going to a men's game and they enjoyed more going to the women's game. And so I think I don't work in that level of knowing the numbers and the data around those aspects. So I guess it's the same target if you say male of a certain age group, but I think there's different attributes that go to them. And again, I think it's like two circles and they cross over.
(37:08):
And in the middle, you have a lot of crossover, but sometimes you have people on each side that are different. You have women that might have had bad experience going to men's games, but they still really want to be aligned or connected to something that they can believe in and that they can sing with and they can chant and they can feel a community around something. And that's a really great opportunity, too, for women's football to invite these women to the games and engage them and their likes and their interests and bring in sponsors for them for sure.
(37:37):
So you have given some advice, I guess, for women already. But if you have some additional advice for women who want to pursue a career in the sports industry, just do it.
Not Nike plugging, but just go do it. Don't be worried. And everybody has imposter syndrome sometimes, and even men have an imposter syndrome. This is not only a female problem, but you figure it out as you do it and you're going to make huge mistakes and you're going to fall on your face, but you can get back up and really just go do it and then start to learn. And I think one of the big things to find your niche or find your passion within the sports industry. So if it's women's football, if it's women's sports, then do that. If it's men's, do that. But get good in understanding your niche so that people are going to challenge you. But you know what you're talking about within that.
(38:25):
So if you're a great marketer, you're a great sponsorshippers and you're great social media, like really know your niche inside and out and that will help you.
Yeah, for sure. And maybe now sports sponsorship on the women's football side is going to be an area that's going to grow rapidly the next couple of years.
I think it will. And I think it's huge. And I, and I think there's a huge opportunity for people with that skill set to really engage and not just try to sell it for so long. Trying to sell to women who watch sport in general or trying to sell to women's sports, they shrink it and pink it and we don't want it shrunk and we don't want it pink. It's really understanding that market. How do you sell to it? What does it look like when my baby's bigger and I'm not breastfeeding anymore? I drink beer and I will drink beer again. And why do all the commercials with beer are a bunch of guys like, I definitely cheers when we score and I'll have a beer with my sister or with my girlfriend and watch champions League.
(39:22):
So why aren't the Commercials geared towards me and what that looks like for me? So I think there's a huge market there and I think the agencies and people need to start looking at it differently. Don't just take the same thing that you've done in men's sports and then flip a color or just flip the actors in the commercial.
Agreed. Is there something I haven't asked you yet that you want to mention?
(39:47):
Well, I think it's one thing that I want to add to the advice to women. Not just do it, but go for it. Like apply to the job that you're maybe not prepared for. Apply, apply, try go for it again. You're going to get a lot of no's, but you never know when you're going to get a yes and just talk to as many people and put yourself out there and put yourself in uncomfortable situations because that's only going to make you better and allow you to grow and people know who you are because the sports industry is a lot of networking and people knowing who you are for sure.
(40:22):
And you love that. I love that you said that because I usually end this podcast with the networking question and it is who from your network do you think would be a good guest on this podcast?
Well, obviously Preeti Shetty, my co founder of Velour. So she can come and share more, 100% for sure.
There you go.
Absolutely. I mean, there's tons of people out there, though, that are fantastic. But I do have to plug velour and I would love for you to have Preeti on here because probably by the time she comes, we'll be up and running and then we can get more people to the platform. But no, there's tons of people, I'm sure. Well, Marcus, can I ask you a question?
(40:57):
You can?
Okay, so I have a couple. What is the coolest thing you've learned from one of your interviewees or something that you're like, never thought of that, or that is just so valuable, like you should share it again is I.
Talked to Andrew Brandt from, he was a VP at the Green Bay packers, and it's about career choice in sports. When you apply for a job, one of the arguments that many use is that I love sports, I love Nike, I wear it all the time. But that's not really what they need. They don't need someone who only loves the brand. So what's your uniqueness? What makes you great at this position? For example, if you're in social media, can you show, do you have something to show for it? Like did you have a page that you grew to ex followers? Or I mean, graphic design here are some previous designs that I have. Like to show more that and not just say like that, oh, I love sports. I have a big passion for sports 100%.
(41:54):
So basically you copied me when I say find your niche in the industry.
Exactly.
No, I think, yeah, I think your USP is super big, and I think that's actually a really good point. Being a fan does not make you good at the job.
Exactly.
Okay, that's super cool. What other questions I have for you, because I feel like you've had super interesting people on here. Had another one, and I just lost it, baby brain and not being able to sleep. All right, we'll just go with that one. Maybe I'll think of something else for you. I think you should let somebody interview you on all the things you've learned from people, and then you can put it all together and then have a supernote version of all these talks.
(42:32):
Yeah, I think that's good. And actually they say that's like a good way to appear on other podcasts. Grows your own podcast, so maybe I need to look at that.
Yeah, definitely. Because I feel like you could just talk about all the learnings that you've been given. That's like, here's my mini mba on what I've learned from all my guests. Here's the networking part. Oh, what's the best networking tip that.
(42:54):
Would say, just like, reach out to don't be. That's what I do. And I think as long as you're professional and polite, the worst thing that can happen is a no or that they don't answer you, but you don't really have anything to lose. I have hunched way beyond my weight many times when it comes to guests on this podcast or all the time, actually, when you don't have anything to lose and do your research, not just send out the gen. I hate that because I get pitches all the time. And it says, for high sports management podcast, we would like this guy to appear. Yeah. Okay. I say my name in the intro. If you listen 10 seconds into the episode, you know my name. You can do that research.
(43:31):
Yeah.
So do some research. Don't send out something generic. Say dear hi, Ariana. Dear Ariana, I like that you did Xyz. And I would really like to connect with you because of XYZ recent, so forth.
I've said that to a few students. For me, too. If you send me a personalized note, I will. Me personally, I will for sure, like, say yes on LinkedIn or any social. If you just message like, just send me an invite. I probably won't just because you get a lot of invites, but if somebody takes the time to message, you and most of my colleagues are the same. So I think that's a really good advice. Great advice. Cool. Well, thank you, Marcus.
(44:14):
Thank you so much for taking the time. I appreciate it. Thank you for listening to the sports fantasy podcast. Please hit the subscribe button so you don't miss out on any upcoming episodes. Also, feel free to leave a comment about what you thought about this episode. If you want to get in contact with me, send an email to sportsmpodcastmail.com or hit me up on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. Sports m podcast.
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