#263 – Writing, Directing, and The Power of Authentic Creativity with Marlene Rhein - Spun Today with Tony Ortiz

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Right, definitely. And I. And I don't want to fuck it up. You know what
I mean? Like, I feel what I know it could be and, like, what I
want it to be. And then it's like that imposter syndrome that we
spoke about earlier. Can I deliver on that? And can I even, like, articulate that
on the page? You know, like, I feel it, but I. Yes,
totally. And this is where you have to say, okay, firi, you want to come

(00:21):
along for the ride? You fucking sit in the backseat, buckle up. You want to
be there? Fine, but I'm driving. And that's where you, like, you learn to, like,
really be in the moment, and you trust.

(00:49):
What's up, folks? What's going on? Welcome to the Spun Today podcast, the
only podcast that is anchored in writing but unlimited in scope.
I'm your host, Tony Ortiz, and I appreciate you listening. This is episode
263 of the Spun Today podcast, and in this
episode, we have an absolute treat. Writer, director,
and actress Miss Marlene Brine joins us,

(01:11):
and we had a dope conversation that I know all of you will enjoy, especially
my fellow creatives out there. Marlene has written, directed,
and starred in her own films like the Big Shot
Caller, as well as tv shorts like
the so so you don't know as well as others, which we get into
during this episode. And she tells us a bit about the differences between writing

(01:33):
and directing for a tv short versus a film,
which is great. A definite highlight for me was
hearing about when she directed a music video for
Tupac, the all about you music video, and also
a music video for Amy Winehouse before she blew up called
Fuck me Pumps. So it's cool to hear some behind the scenes

(01:55):
information about them and those creative
experiences from her perspective. And probably the biggest highlight for me. For those
of you who listen to follow the podcast, know that I love behind the scenes
stuff. I love figuring out how the sausage got made,
what goes into creating a thing, and in this case, obviously, you know,
films and television. And Marlene was gracious enough

(02:17):
to go very granular with details, which I absolutely
love and shared about her writing process, which,
spoiler alert, is pen to paper at first, old school, just like me. And
then she shifts over to the final draft writing program to
write her screenplays. But we discussed that. We discussed the budgeting for
a movie, how to figure that out, what the different roles

(02:39):
do on a set, from a line producer versus an investor
versus cinematographer versus behind the scenes
photographer, which, by the way, to me, sounds like the
illest job on a set. And that's probably just my bias of, you know,
liking and enjoying behind the scenes type content, but they get
to walk around, take pictures, interview folks

(03:01):
that are involved with the filming process and that's super dope in
my opinion. Again, probably the best gig on the set is
that we spoke about casting, location scouting and
getting permits if needed. We talked a little bit about the SAG
scale rate for actors, how to calculate the total
cost of a film, how to figure out the time needed to shoot, and

(03:24):
so much more. I truly had a great time chatting with a
fellow creative and wanted once again to thank
Marlene Ryan for taking the time and just sharing with us.
She has a great new film project that she is working on and tells us
about called who is Joi Seracha? Which you my
dear spun. Today listeners have the opportunity to invest in if you

(03:46):
so choose. She tells us about how that works and how
your potential investment would be tax deductible and all that good stuff.
So again, thank you Marlene, really appreciate you for coming on the show. We have
a great episode for you fine folks to enjoy. But first
I wanted to tell you all about a quick way that you can help support
this podcast if you so choose, and then we'll jump right into the

(04:08):
episode. Do you want
to start your own podcast? Have a great show idea that you want to get
out into the masses but don't know quite how to get it from your head
out into the world? Well, here's how. Use the
podcast host Libsyn. That's who I use to bring the spun
today podcast to you. And now you can use them the same way.

(04:30):
Using the promo code Spun spun, you can
open up your Lipsyn account today and get two months of
free podcast hosting. Here's how it works.
Once you record your show, you upload it to your Lipsyn account where you
can fill in your episode notes, upload your podcast art,
and schedule when you want your episodes to release.

(04:52):
Once you do that, Lipson will take care of the rest. They'll distribute your
show to Spotify Apple podcasts, YouTube, and
all the other podcasters that you choose
instantaneously and seamlessly. Again, go to
libsyn.com and use the promo code spun spun to
get two months free, or use the affiliate link that's in

(05:14):
the episode notes. Again, that's lipson.com promo
code Spun. Take that great podcast idea from out of
your head and put it out into the world.
What's up Spun today, listeners? Today we have an absolute treat for you
fine folks. Our very special guest is a writer,
director, actor, known for, but not limited to,

(05:38):
the big shot caller, which is a film that she wrote, directed,
and starred in the television shorts that she also
wrote, directed, and starred in, which are my parents are crazier than
yours and the so so you don't know where. By the
way, she won the New York City Web Fest award for best director.
She directed Tupac Shakur's music video, all about you. Yes,

(06:01):
that Tupac Shakur. And Amy Winehouse's music video, fuck me
pumps. Yes, that Amy Winehouse. And last but
certainly not least, she was selected by filmmaker
magazine as one of their top 25 new
faces of independent film. Ladies and gents, Miss
Marlene Ryan is joining us today.

(06:25):
Marlene, welcome to the Spun Today podcast. Thank
you. Great to be here. Awesome to have you.
So, Marlene, you told me a bit about your new film, who is Joi
Seracha? Which has such an original premise that I can't wait for the
listeners to hear about a little bit later. So we'll definitely get into all
that. But since it's your first time on the pod, I kind of wanted to

(06:47):
start in the beginning. What's the origin story of Marlene? Where
did you grow up? When did you realize you were creative? How did you get
into all this awesome, fun stuff? Yes, it all
started one spring day in Manhattan, where I
was born.
Union Square, to be specific. Anyway, yes, I was born in the

(07:08):
city and then grew up on Long island. And I think, like, since the age
of four or five, I was, like, always bossing the other kids around on the
block. I would be like, okay, we're gonna play library. I'm the librarian, and you
guys are taking up books. And I was just, like, super bossy pants and, like,
always, like, creating these scenarios, but I was in them, and I knew,
like, from the gate that, you know, I wanted to kind of

(07:30):
just, like, write direct at whatever, like, create stuff
and have it be silly and funny, but then also
kind of, I think I developed, like, compassion for other people at a very
early age, and I kind of wanted to make a huge difference somehow. So I
thought I'll, you know, creative and make a difference. Movies that really,
like, touch and inspire people. And so I think since I was a kid, it's

(07:52):
something that I've wanted to do. And then as I got older, and I
just was so in love with dance. I love dancing almost even
more than filmmaking, I would say a huge love of music. And when I was
growing up in, like, the eighties, you know, hip
hop and its origin, like, old school stuff, I just loved.
I was always looking at Eric Bain, rakim, and public enemy, blah,

(08:14):
blah, but also, like, punk music. Yeah, huge
influence on me. And I decided to, like, start out with music videos
after I studied film at Ithaca College. Minored
in writing, but, like, still love dancing so much. So music videos was kind of,
like, the perfect thing for me at the time. It was like a combination of
the poetry, of the juxtaposition of images and

(08:37):
music, and my passion for music and filmmaking. And so I
used my credit cards after college to build a reel, and
I started shooting videos for some unsigned rappers
and eventually started getting some work. And then
1996, I was awarded what would
be Tupac's last video budget was, like, $300,000. We shot

(08:58):
on 35 film
over three days in LA, and I was directing videos
for a while, and then I kind of
went over to London because I felt like Europe was going to be more my
thing, and they had such a greater sense of artistry and
more respect for, like, cerebral ideas and stuff like that. And I became much more

(09:21):
successful directing music videos over there than I was
in the States, which felt just very commercial, very, like, lowest common
denominator. Not really. Things were created not necessarily for the art
of it, but for what would appeal for marketing, blah, blah, blah,
I don't know. And I directed Amy Winehouse
on Brick Lane in east London. That was 2004.

(09:43):
And eventually music started to change. A lot more boy bands were coming out, and
I was very disillusioned, and I felt like I wanted to tell stories
that mattered. I wanted to make movies. And that's when I kind of
transitioned, moved back to the States. I was going
between LA and New York, made my first feature film, a
big shot caller, which co starred my brother and

(10:04):
myself. And that's kind of more about salsa dancing. And then I made a bunch
of web series, and I stayed in New York for a while, came back to
LA like, four and a half years ago, and now I'm
getting ready to make my next film. So that's
the origin story. That's awesome. Definitely a lot there to
unpack. Some of which I want to go back to, if you don't mind. Tell

(10:25):
me about. Because, like, the listeners of the podcast and, like,
what I try to put out is not necessarily a roadmap, because everybody's, like,
creative process is different, but kind of expose folks
to, like, different paths. So there's not. They're not locked into these, like,
cookie cutter type paths, you know, for lack of a better term,
towards achieving and just trying to, like, walk towards

(10:48):
their creative dreams and aspirations. So wanted to
ask you a bit about going back to growing up and
stuff like that. You always kind of bossy, and I guess that's definitely, like,
director type vibes, and I would imagine
somewhat creative, like, with writing early on and stuff like that. Was
going to college in Ithaca. Was that, like, your first, where you started taking

(11:10):
it, like, more seriously and something that you knew you wanted to pursue?
Yeah, I kind of. I knew. I knew right away,
like, what I wanted to do, so, yeah, I studied it there, but. And
I think I was always, like, kind of shy, maybe doubted myself a lot. Like,
I had these dreams but didn't know. And then, you know, when you have to
start shooting film projects and showing them to people.

(11:32):
Once I started, like, getting reactions to, like, the comedy in my
films, and then I was like, oh, my God. Like, I'm actually
good at this. Like, people like my stuff. This is. Yes, I'm gonna do this.
You know? So I kind of got that affirmation there, I think. Right. It definitely
eases that, like, imposter syndrome type of thing, that we all, as creative, definitely suffers.
Yes. And that doesn't. It doesn't necessarily go away, that imposter

(11:54):
syndrome. But I think what happens, and I think we all have self doubt, but
some of us more than others, I definitely have been riddled with it. It's been
a huge hindrance. No doubt. But I think that as you live and
you grow and you learn and you read and you hear other people's stories
and you realize that we all have it, then it starts to become this thing
where it's just this voice in you that you recognize. You

(12:15):
say, oh, there's that voice. It's just a thought. And I think thoughts are, like,
for consideration only. And instead of identifying with these thoughts of, like, I'm not good
enough, I don't deserve to be making this, or I don't deserve money to make
my films, then you just start to say, nope, that's not me. That's
just the thought. I'm going to keep going. And I think also
making a film or doing anything big or anything where you're

(12:38):
kind of exposing yourself, it's vulnerable.
Fear is going to step into the picture immediately. And I think as you
grow, you start to learn that when you hit the gas and the fear shows
up, fear means keep going. It doesn't mean stop. It means
you're going in the right direction, actually, and you start to embrace it as opposed
to let it shut you down. Exactly. I couldn't agree

(13:00):
more. Like, the. Like, the saying goes, usually your
achievements or your dreams are on the opposite side of, like, the fear or the
resistance that you feel from doing that, so that's cool.
So, you. So, while you were at Ithaca, which reminds me of
the movie road trip, by the way. Yeah,
I can't say that without thinking about that movie. So, you started

(13:23):
directing, like, you mentioned, rap artist videos
that were, like, unsigned artists, and that was, like, a kind of, like, a melding
of your two passions, like, the disciplines that you're learning in school with filmmaking and
writing and kind of finding a way creatively to combine it
with a passion that you had and something that music genre that,
you know, I think. So my. My

(13:45):
project. I think my junior year, my big, like, film project was actually a
black comedy called McDeath, where it was, like, the
corporatization of a funeral. I mean, that was my first
film. So it's like, from. From the start, I've been, like, black comedy all
the way. It's my thing. But that. Those were, like, the film. That was the
film I started making. And then I think senior year, my senior project

(14:07):
was, I made a music video to a Queen Latifah song,
and that's. That's when the whole music video idea thing started.
Like, you made your own. My own. I made my own, yeah. And
then, like, she was performing at Cornell, and I managed to get myself backstage, and
I sent her the video. And this is back in the day when, like, video.
It was like, video tapes. You know what I mean? Like, three quarter inches, vhs.

(14:29):
And I sent it to her. Yeah, yeah. Like, and she had, like, seen
it. It was really cool. We had a moment, and I thought maybe she would
hire me for videos, but that never happened, but, yeah, but. That
just shows you, like, your tenacity, your drive to, like, literally break down.
Break down the door and, like, try to. Try to get in there and try
to get in the mix, right? Yes. Yes. I'm terrified, but I do it. It's
like that book. Feel the fear and do it anyway. Like, I'm always, like, afraid,

(14:52):
but I go for it, you know? Nice. I got to check that out.
I like that. Yes. So, tell me about the process of. You
mentioned putting together reels. Is that kind of, like. Like,
in my mind, I just think of actors. They put together, like, snippets
of things that they've been in, and they try to use that to, like, leverage
it to get, like, management or agents or something like that. Is that

(15:14):
similar to the reels that. You put together for directing. I think,
like, with the music videos, like, I just. I kind of
found an artist. I think his name was Daru. That was the
first rapper that I worked with. And I used my credit cards and we
shot a music video. And then I did a spec commercial for
Adidas where I've always been into dancing and choreography. So we got,

(15:36):
like, a bunch of dancers together and I did that. And actually, off of
that spec commercial, I wound up getting a music video in London where
they loved the underground vibe of that so much and wanted me to replicate that.
And that was, like a huge video for me. So, yeah, basically it's kind of
like shooting music videos or commercials that you fund yourself
just to build a real. Got it. That's what you mean by the

(15:58):
spec? By the spec, yes. Okay. So it's kind of like
you shoot it yourself and, you know, it's kind of a gamble, obviously,
but it's a way to, on one hand, build your portfolio because it is something
creative that you're doing. And also you try to, like, sell it to Adidas. Like,
you reach. Reach out and pitch it to them type of thing. I can't remember
if I sent it to them or I told them ahead of time, and they
wound up, like, sending me a bunch of. Bunch of stuff, like clothes and gear

(16:21):
and stuff like that, but not necessarily like, to sell it to them, but
it's really just to show that you can direct and so, and to get more
directing work. Gotcha. And, like that, it pads
your portfolio. And for them, I would imagine on the business side, it's kind of
like a marketing write off type of thing,
I guess. Kind of like a win win kind of. I don't know if, like,

(16:42):
they gain that much for it other than, like, if it's super amazing,
then they might use it. And that's happened in a few instances. Not with me,
but. But, yeah, gotcha. It's a little bit of
exposure for them. And then I think, like, people do that a lot with short
films. Like, people who want to make movies will create a
short of it as a proof of concept. And, like, whiplash did that, and then

(17:03):
they wound up, like, getting the funding. And I've made a few
shorts. I love whiplash. Yeah, I know a really
good film. So now tell me about. Because that's actually one of the questions
that I had for you, your, I guess, like, differences between
when you go in with the mindset of, from either writing
perspective and directing perspective. I'm curious about between

(17:25):
shorts versus feature. Yes.
I mean, shorts are good. If you haven't maybe directed that much and you kind
of want to prove to yourself that you can do it, it's certainly a good
thing. I feel like at this point, because I've done so many, and all the
web series I've done, they're kind of like a series of shorts for me. I'm
kind of done with it. I feel like I want to make something viable

(17:47):
and big. I want, you know, to make a movie and to get
it out there and have be seen by a lot of people. So I'm kind
of done with doing shorts, but I feel like if
you're starting out and you haven't really directed that much, it's definitely
a good idea to do a short film just to show to yourself that you
can tell a story and to show other people like, that might be

(18:08):
a good way to get funding for the future. Although
for me, at this point, I feel like it's way too much of an investment
of time and money to do that instead of just going to. Make the
movie instead of just bootstrapping it and doing it yourself
type of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
So I've made one feature, and I have three now I want to make, and

(18:29):
there's one. There's a hip hop dance movie that I love. It's like my passion
project, but it's going to take, like, at least a million dollars to
make. And so that's kind of why I took a step back and I
wrote this other film, who is Joi Seracha with, like, seven
locations. It's gonna be shot in two weeks because
I want to make a movie so bad that I knew, like, okay, let me

(18:51):
write something that's, like, super doable, super low budget that I'm not gonna wait
around to, like, raise money for. I mean, I still have to raise money for
it, which is what I'm doing. But it just, in my mind, became something a
lot easier and more manageable to do. Gotch. Okay. And that is that
the. When the bass drops. Yeah, when the bass drops, that.
That's the movie. The passion project movie. Yes. I saw a snippet of it. I

(19:13):
don't remember if it was on your Instagram or YouTube, maybe. And it
definitely gave me. It was. It was pretty dope. It gave me a kind of,
like, underdog, eight mile type vibes. Yeah,
exactly. Yeah. So I shot. I shot a short
film for that, but that. The female. Exactly. It's very much like,
like eight mile. It's like Rocky. But in the world of dance, it's where I

(19:34):
play this woman who's like, you know, mid
late forties and as a kid, loved hip hop music, wanted to dance, but never
followed that dream because she didn't believe in herself, didn't think she could have it
because she was an outsider. And then all this stuff happens in
her life, and she's like an alcoholic working at Home Depot, and, you know,
her father is dying. And she comes across this box of old

(19:56):
school tapes from the eighties with all the music that she loved, and she pops
it into this, the Walkman that's in the box and starts
playing. Strafe set it off, and it reminds her of the club day. And it
just, she starts crying because the music was what made her feel
so alive. And it's a movie is kind of almost like a love
letter to that. That music. You know, it was a time, it was such an

(20:17):
electric time for us in the late eighties with all this amazing
music. And people went to the clubs and there were no cell phones then.
So when you went to the clubs and you went to dance, you were connected
to people even if you never spoke to them. And there was an electricity, and
it was palpable and it was like a movement. And, and I cry sometimes
when I think about it because I miss that. I love music so

(20:39):
much, and I love that music so much, and I love the movement that it
was. And so this movie is really about that. And it's also
about self esteem and about depression
and breaking out of it and how doing what you love, dancing
to music that you love, can lift you up out of the small self you
think you are to, to your destiny,

(21:01):
to who you were always meant to become. That's what that movie is about.
That's awesome. That's beautiful. And you touched on something
with, like, the cell phones, like you mentioned. And it's kind of like a double
edged sword, right? Like all this technology and, and just like, social
media and things like that, that are, that is so prevalent nowadays. When you have
on one side, it's like a great tool and option for, like, creatives

(21:23):
to harness it and be able to, to do things themselves and film things
themselves and market things themselves. They don't have, like, gatekeepers per se.
But on the other side, on the flip side of that, you have
the inability of, like, that type of
romantic connection with folks like you mentioned and times that are just,
like moments in time that, you know, you don't, you're not

(21:45):
worried about being, like, captured on and posted on Instagram, or people are
just literally stuck on their phones and zombie scrolling, as they say.
And, and instead of focusing on connecting with the folks that are physically in the
room with you and stuff like that. So, yeah. Yeah, that's. It's crazy.
Like, I, you know, go to clubs sometimes because I love to
dance, and I just can't believe that instead of dancing on the dance floor,

(22:08):
all these people are just filming the dj and it's like. And
so, and I think also, like, and I write about this a lot.
Like, loneliness is more prevalent now than ever. And I think a lot of it,
this, this disconnected society we live in, it's like everyone
is using their phone or filming something and no one is present. And
so you get this sense of just being alone in a

(22:30):
crowd all the time because everyone is disconnected. But
like you said, there are great uses for it. Like, I've
discovered so many encouraging things on Instagram,
like, just scrolling something, someone will say something that I need to hear
the most. And so that's beautiful and wonderful, but what if we could
manage it better? Like, what if we could, like, use them less and then

(22:52):
when we're out and social, like, connect with people? Like, that would be ideal,
but I feel like mental health and the society is diving,
nose diving, like, fast. And it's because of
this disconnection, and I hope that it changes. Yeah, I
definitely agree with you on that. And it's like the. It's like a weird juxtaposition
between the ability and the technology to

(23:14):
be more connected, you know, with anybody in the world than ever
before in the history of time while simultaneously being, like, siloed
and in our. Within our own bubbles and couldn't be further apart.
It's like, yeah. Such an interesting dynamic there. Yes, totally.
Totally. So the. I want to ask you from, like,
a creative perspective, the. So that movie

(23:37):
is, and I'm coming from the place of, for example, just to take a step
back, I ran a couple of books. I have, like, my own
personal, you know, creative outlets, obviously, with writing and with
podcasting, but I have my own personal creative goals. Like,
for example, I wrote a science fiction time
travel novel. I see that as a longer series of at least three books,

(23:59):
leaving it open for more. And I want to eventually
adapt that to screenplays and eventually
pie in the sky kind of like, dream of mine is to, like, see it
on a screen. Yeah. But I, and
I know that different folks, again, going back to an original point that we were
speaking about earlier, there's, like, different approaches. There's no, like, right way or wrong way.

(24:20):
Some folks just, like, write screenplays directly and, you know, shop those around.
Some people, you know, go the route of, you know, adapting, like, short
stories or novels into, like,
series or features. And I'm really interested in what
you mentioned of when the, when the bass drops, like that kind of
being your north Star creatively is the way I took

(24:42):
it. But to get there, you realize from a
practical perspective, I guess, like kind of more like
from a movie business perspective, you realize that you need to
take certain steps to get there in terms of, like, the funding and so
forth, which is where the idea for who is Joi Seracha came from,
which to me, I kind of took that as you have not a stepping

(25:05):
stone, like in a, like, to belittle it or anything like
that, but that it's a way to get
off, like, your creative impulses and your
creative outlet, but still going in the direction of
what your North Star is. And when the bass drops, does that kind of
sort of make sense? Yes. Yes. And tell

(25:27):
me about how this, your science fiction thing, like, where are you kind
of, like, stuck with it. Are you, are you having doubts? Like, what's, where are
you at with that? Well, I, I wrote the first one.
It's been four years, I want to say,
when I published the first novel. And I, you
know, since the beginning, since before, before writing the first one, it was always a,

(25:50):
well, it honestly started as like, a short story, and then I just kept writing
and writing and writing and I was like, oh, well, I have enough for definitely
for a novel. And then it just, you know how ideas, like, when you're writing,
they just, like, grow and start, like, going in different directions and, like, evolving into
different things sometimes. That's what happened with that one. And so it
was always, like, I saw it as a longer work, like

(26:10):
creative work and, but just like writing the second book, which
I did start, but I've started and stopped like, dozens of
times over the last, like, four years since. And so much so that
I distract myself with other writing projects. Like, you know, I get writer's
block with that. And then I published last year a collection of short
stories which, like, I'm proud of and I love. And, you know, you really want

(26:32):
to. Write your, I want to continue that series. Exactly.
So then, and, you know, I always go back around to it and I
know I'm going to do it, but it's just getting over whatever, like, creative
humps and hurdles and I don't know if you're familiar with Steven Pressfield's
work and his. Yes, the war of art. Exactly.
I love it. It's like complete resistance. You know what I mean? And it's like,

(26:54):
I have resistance towards that project, so much so that I'm doing other
projects just, like, blocking myself.
So it's this resistance to it because you love it so much. And I think
that what the resistance is, it's the fear. It's a protection
mechanism. And I am totally going through the same thing, too, that can relate to
it. It's. What happens is there's a part of us that wants to protect

(27:16):
us so bad, it wants to protect us from the failure of it not
happening or the fear of it not happening wants to protect you from the thing
that you love the most. And so that's where the resistance comes in. Because I
think there are these thoughts that say, well, come on, this is like, too pie
in the sky. You're dreaming too big. It's never gonna fucking happen. This is a
huge science fiction thing. Or for me, it's a huge movie. No one's gonna let

(27:37):
you star in 1 million. And it's that
fear of it not happening that says, okay, well, don't do that
because I don't want you to waste your time. I don't want you to spend
months Michael bio while you're working on this. And then what happens if it doesn't
happen? What a waste it will have been. That's right.
Right. Definitely. And I. And I don't want to fuck it up. You know what

(27:57):
I mean? Like, I feel what I know it could be and, like, what I
want it to be. And then it's like that imposter syndrome that we
spoke about earlier. Can I deliver on that? And can I, like, articulate that on
the page? You know, like, I feel it, but. I haven't, like, manifested
it totally. And this is where you have to say, okay, fear. You want to
come along for the ride. You fucking sit in the backseat. Buckle up. You want

(28:19):
to be there, fine, but I'm driving. And that's where you, like, you learn to,
like, really be in the moment and you trust. And I do a lot of
things to get to that place, like exercise, because you have to
start learning to get out of your mind and not giving your mind control. I
do transcendental meditation, 20 minutes a day, morning and night. Nice.
I actually just took a TM course online, so I would love to, like.

(28:40):
Yeah, I took the, like, one of those, like, intro TM courses.
Yeah, like, tell you about it, but I haven't gone to do, like, the actual,
you know, like, get my mantra and all that stuff. And I'm hesitating with
that. Even. So, I would love to, like, circle back. Yeah. Oh, well, I have
to say, it's a game changer. It really is. It's really helped me, like,
alleviate a lot of anxiety, which I deal with, but also, like, it's

(29:02):
hands down been the thing that's allowed me to separate.
When you're able to separate from your thoughts instead of identify with
them, then your world changes. Because when you identify with these thoughts of
fear and lack and blah, blah, then you're frozen and you can't move
ahead. But when you can, like, be the witnesser and say,
oh, it's just a thought, there's that thought again. It's like. It's really trying to

(29:24):
protect me. It's telling me, like, I'm a nobody. Who am I to write
this? Blah, blah? You put it aside and you say,
okay, I see you there and you don't fight it, but you let it be
and you carry on. And so with your thing,
you find a way to say, there's that thought. It doesn't mean anything, but let
me. It's like being, you know, there's that old native american

(29:46):
phrase, the story about there's two wolves in your
head. There's the evil and the good, and they're both fighting. It's like,
well, which one is going to survive? The one that you feed. So you
choose to dwell in, to
swim in, to fly in thoughts of beauty and
creativity and enthusiasm and inspiration, because that's the only

(30:09):
thing that's real. Love is the only thing that's real. And if you can choose
that path, the other stuff is going to go away. It's noise, and we all
deal with it. But if you choose that, then what happens is you get into
the flow. Like, for me, I go to this one cafe I love, get my
cold brew, whatever, and I sit there and I'm writing. And once I lock into
the writing, when you're in that feeling of, I fucking love this,

(30:29):
I feel so alive. I can't wait till people experience what I'm
experiencing when I write this, you're in the flow, and then
nothing can touch you. And so it's just a matter of jumping into that pool
and getting into the water, even though there's that fear. It
might be cold. Do I jump in? You jump in, and you get in the
water, and then nothing can touch you. And so you have to practice

(30:51):
getting into the flow. And when you're in the flow, you're okay. And you know
you're okay because when you're feeling the love and inspiration, that's
the right place to be. That's how you know you're in the right place to
be. The other voice, the fear, the doubt, the like, who am I to write
this? That's a phantom that you've created in your mind that thinks it's
protecting you. That's awesome. Thank you for that.

(31:12):
Definitely motivating. So do you feel that with the TM, have you
done other, like, guided meditations, like the wake
up app or headspace or anything like that? I have.
I have. I use aura a lot and I actually, I've recorded a lot
of. I'm like a meditation teacher, guide on
insight timer. I have a lot of guided meditations, but I do that and

(31:34):
sometimes, and I do a lot of tapping. It's called eft, emotional freedom technique. And
there are free ones on YouTube, and I use the free ones on YouTube all
the time. And you can tap for anxiety, tap for
fear of lack, money issues, self worth, whatever you're
going through, you just put in the YouTube search bar, tapping for whatever.
And that, I feel, is very helpful because that actually physically, they call it

(31:55):
psychological acupuncture. And that, like, physically moves the energy through
your body, might be moved to tears, whatever. So I do that. I do
guided meditations sometimes. Like, a lot of them, I like to do
hypnosis. A lot of them are free on YouTube. I use, I use them
all. Nice. That's awesome. Do you, how, how would
you compare, let's say, like, tM, for example? Like you mentioned, it's a game

(32:16):
changer. Is it? Because for me, it's kind of hard. Like,
I gravitated towards it for, like, creatives, for example, that, that
I follow and respect. Like, like Rick Rubin, Sam
Harris, Jerry Seinfeld, like, all these folks that are, like, proponents of TM that.
And I'm, and I'm, like, really into their creative work
and, like, their interviews and podcasts and stuff like that. So that's where, like, I

(32:39):
first started learning about TM and kind of, like, gravitate towards it. But then,
and I've done headspace, for example, and it definitely helps. And I
feel, like, more centered and calm. And I actually did an
episode recently where I spoke about this. I did, like a cycling marathon called the
five borough that they do here in New York. And I was
mentioning, I've done it a few times for a few years in the past with

(33:01):
a buddy of mine, and I was mentioning on an episode where I was breaking
down my experience with it or whatever, and how I was, like,
going up the Verrazano bridge, which is, like, the last long incline, and
I had kind of this epiphany where I started, like, just telling myself. Myself,
breathe in through the nose, breathe out through the mouth, you know, just focus on
the breath, like that type of stuff. And I was like, oh, shit. There's, like,

(33:21):
practical applications to meditation, and I never, like, made
that connection. Wow. That's cool. Yeah. But I kind of tell myself
I'm, like, how much different could TM be
than just, like, guided meditation? You know what I mean? Well, yes. Yeah,
totally. Totally. It's very different. I'll tell you why. The one thing that I
just love about it is what stops most people in their

(33:43):
meditation is thoughts that come in, and we feel very
disturbed by our own thoughts. And TM, actually, the way they teach it
is you allow them. You don't make
any effort at all to try to push them away, or
they just coexist in your meditation, whereas
other meditations, they'll talk about the monkey mind or, like, whatever, and it's easy

(34:05):
to kind of get stopped in your tracks and to lose hope or get
frustrated because the thoughts come in. But TM, actually, they show you how
to kind of use them and how to allow them, and I
don't know. It's made a huge difference. It feels very different from other
meditations because you're not. There's no efforting. There's no, like, okay,
do this. Now try this. Now breathe in. Like, no, it's. It's kind of. It

(34:28):
takes over, and you surrender to it, and it really kind of
takes you into a deeper state of relaxation that no other meditation
I've tried has done. That's also. I think you just motivated me to
actually take the next step and just book that first TM
session there. Nice. I think it'll make a difference in your
life. That's awesome. Thank you. I appreciate that, Marlene. So, I

(34:51):
wanted to. You mentioned, like, I see the creative trajectory,
right? Like, when you mentioned Gwena Ithaca doing. Teaming up with the local
rapper, starting to, you know, film your own stuff, and, you know, just
going. Going to clubs, being. Being in that scene, you know, that
encounter with Queen Latifah. How did. And
since Pac is, like, one of my favorite rappers, I wanted to go back to,

(35:12):
like, that experience that you mentioned of shooting
the music video with him, the all about you.
And because I kind of. I see that connection there, like, from.
Just from grassroots, you know, starting it yourself and just being in the mix and
just building up your reels and stuff like that. How do you go from, like,
that level to. All right, now I got this. I think you

(35:34):
said, like a $300,000 grant or however it works,
whatever it's called. Budget. Yeah, budget. There you go. You can, like, how does
that. How does that leap happen? And then obviously, you know, tell us about the
experience with, like, working with Poc. Okay, so, first of
all, it's really interesting, because when you're
in it at that time, you think, oh, shit, I got it made. This is

(35:56):
it. Finally, it's happening. Just directed Tupac's video,
and now I'm made, you know? Yeah, yeah. And then, like,
I would get a couple of other tracks in for, you know, music videos
to write the ideas for. I did crickets. Like,
nothing. Like, after that, I was like, back to the
struggle, and that was so disappointing. But,

(36:18):
I mean, that's what. And this is like life, you know, constantly forced
to pivot and to, you know, you're
constantly turned in this direction, that direction. It's like, what do you do now? Do
you despair? Do you know? No. You use your resilience
and you get inspired for what's next, and you create
something new. And that's what I feel like I did. I bumped up

(36:40):
against a lot of frustration with music videos, but anyway. And that's kind of
what turned me towards filmmaking and making movies
eventually. But to go back to the experience itself, it was very
stressful, obviously, because he was such a huge artist. You
know, sometimes the bigger the artist, the less creative you can be, because they have
their ideas of what they want it to be. So I didn't feel, like, creatively.

(37:01):
It was very rewarding for me at all. The only
aspect of the concept that I came up with was to have him,
like, in the bathroom on the toilet bowl, looking at magazines
of all the girls. Yeah. Like, that was my idea. Nice. But
other than that, you know, there are a few moments when I was, like, talking
to him or hanging out with him on the set, and it was so surreal.
And I was like, holy shit. Like, this is crazy. Like, we're just talking to

(37:24):
each other, like human being to human being. And he was
down to earth. He was a human. He had
his insecurities. You could kind of see certain things, like,
oh, shit, he's human like anyone else. And that was
wild. And he was nice. I got along really well with him. And at the
end, he said, I know that you didn't get to spread your wings on this,

(37:45):
and I'd like to give you a chance to do that more. Let's do
work in the future. And I was like, cool. And then he died.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wow.
That's definitely a dope experience, though. And. Yes, and that's
a dynamic that I would have never considered where
that makes sense, as you say it. Like, such, such a big artist, you know,

(38:07):
he kind of has his say with
things within that, like music video space. Right? Like, it's not like
I know or I've heard at least, definitely correct me if I'm wrong. Like, with
tv shows, you have the showrunner, which is pretty much like the shot call or
whatever they say goes on the movie sites. The director who's the shot caller, everything
they say goes. But kind of like in the music video, it's like everybody's

(38:28):
there because of the artist. So it kind of sort of makes sense that they,
especially if they, you know, the bigger their ego or the bigger their star or
whatever it is, they kind of get their. Their
say more so than other folks that are involved in the whole creative process.
Yes, that makes sense. Yeah. And how was it working with
Amy? And was Amy first or Pac first?

(38:50):
Tupac was first and then Amy. So Tupac was in 96,
and Amy Winehouse was in 2004. So eight years
later. And this was before where she really blew up in
the US. She was kind of on the rise in the UK. And all that
time, sorry to cut you off, but all that time in between,
you, you were still, like, working with all, like, a bunch of other artists, like

(39:12):
you mentioned within, I would. Say, like after
the Tupac thing, the same year, I think I went over to England. I was
like, oh, it sucks in America. I'm going to go to England. I didn't know
anyone. I somehow took risks and found a production
company to represent me and tried to get music videos, did a
few little things, very tiny things. And then

(39:33):
came this one group called another level, which was like a sort
of put together r and b pop group. And they did a cover of Freak
me by Silk, and we shot also.
Yes. And that's. That's the one where they saw the Adidas spec and they wanted
the exact same vibe, like the underground kind of salmon colored
vibe. And I had dancers and I had Capoeira and these

(39:55):
Rottweilers, and it was. It was like this big budget thing
that turned out really cool. And that video went to, like,
number one in the charts, and I became, like, one of the top ten
sort of, like, r and b hip hop video directors in England at
that time. And that was an amazing chapter
of my life. That was, like, I was getting work, I was getting paid

(40:18):
well, and I was traveling because, like, people there in Europe, everything's so close to
each other that you can just hop over, do this, that, and
everyone was doing that. They'd set an idea, like, oh, I want to shoot this
in Rome. And that's what I did. And we went and shot a video in
Rome, or, I want to shoot this in Jamaica. We went and shot, like, I
was able to travel everywhere, get paid for it, stay in hotels
and create. It was literally the dream.

(40:42):
Yes. I've been looking back. I just wish,
I don't know, maybe I did that longer. I don't know. It was. It was
wild. It was amazing, and it was great. I felt, like, a little lonely over
there because, like, people all had their friends, and I was there and I was
working, but I didn't really have, like, friends or there were people I worked with
in the film industry. But that was kind of it. Like, creatively, it was great,

(41:03):
but personally, not so much. So eventually, I kind of
came back and I just, you know, and you sort of think, well,
I'm big here. I'm successful doing this. Then I'll just
translate that to making movies. Right? Gotcha. And I had no
idea that it would be so hard to make a
movie, you know? Yeah. Before we get into the movies,

(41:25):
I definitely want to go there next. Tell me about Amy Winehouse.
Amy was very cool. She was kind of, like a tomboy. Like, she did
her thing. She. When we were, like, filming the video, she would not.
I told her, like, turn a certain way, and she would not. She's like, nope,
not left side, only right side. Like, she was very self conscious
about certain profile, very easy to

(41:47):
work with, very down to earth, but, like, you know, like I said, tomboyish, you
know? And when it was time for the edit, she showed up by herself, not
even with, like, anyone from the record label, and she just saw it. She's like,
yeah, cool. Let me watch it again. Yep, my favorite video so far. I love
it. Cool. And then she left, you know, she's, like, super cool,
super down to earth. She was having, like, some issues with, like,

(42:08):
some guy that she liked at the time. Like, she definitely had, like,
you know, male issues back then. Like,
certain self esteem regarding men. Like, she was, like, very confident, very
cool. But you could kind of see, like, other stuff happening. Yeah, it's just
interesting. I'm always, like, interested psychologically and, like, how people grow up
and. And what they're dealing with now as a result. And

(42:30):
I was just noticing a lot of that stuff. Gotcha.
And I'll be remiss if I don't ask this. You mentioned that, like, when
you first went over to England, you got signed up with
a. Was it a production company or an agency, you mentioned? Yeah.
For music videos, you have to be repped by a production company,
and that's how you get work. Gotcha. And to get signed on with them, I

(42:52):
would imagine you show them, like, your stuff, the reels that you've done before, the
Tupac video. Then they. They, like, sign you
up, and then they try to get you. Get you work, and then they get
a piece of, like, whatever it is that you made, you earn and. Exactly. Gotcha.
Okay. And then all those other music videos came, like,
through them. So. Yes, then eventually. Then

(43:13):
you decide to move back to the states. Did you move back to New York
or did you go straight to LA? I think I was, like, going back and
forth between LA and London. And then
in, like, 2002, I
moved from LA to New York. Back to New
York, and stayed there for, like, 17 years.

(43:36):
Wow. Okay. And what part of New York again? I
was in Manhattan then. I was in Queens for all. I was in Astoria, Queens,
for many years. Shout out to Queens. The best borough, of course.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.
So tell me about your writing process itself. Like, you
mentioned, you would go to cafes and stuff like that. Is

(43:58):
it, like, pen to paper type style? Yeah, for sure.
I'm old school. Yeah. Yes. And also,
like, writing is such a lonely thing, and so that's why I kind of like
to do it at cafes, because you could be alone, but around other people, you
know, and you feel like you're. You've been out, you know? Right. So I definitely.
I definitely go to cafes and pen and paper first.

(44:19):
Always sit in the corner, and music inspires me a lot.
Like, when I wrote my first movie, the big shot caller, I was listening to
Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah on repeat, because it's just so emotional to
me. And I think anything that you want to open the
heart, you know, music that opens the heart, it just gets things moving, like, non
stop. So I'll use music for the preliminary stages, you know, like, I'll come

(44:41):
up with the characters, and sometimes, like, lines of dialogue come to me. Like, I
can't shut it off. It's almost like, you know, like those psychics who, like, see
things or, you know what I mean? Like, clairvoyance. It
doesn't stop for me. Like, dialogue doesn't stop. That's definitely my strongest point. It's
structure and plot that I have problems with. But anyway, I'll create a character.
They start speaking to me immediately. I write stuff down. I write jokes down. I

(45:03):
write funny things. Or very often, I'll think of the ending and how emotional.
Like, what do I want to teach people? What's the message here? Is it. Is
it about hope? Is it that, you know, love conquers all? Is it
that you have to look within, you know, and I'll think about what the theme
is and what the ending is, and I'll write it down, and then I'll kind
of work backwards. A lot of. I have legal pads of so many of them,
and I can write stuff. And then when I feel like I have, I create

(45:27):
what I call the skeleton, and then I plug in plot
and character, and then I go to the computer,
and that's when I start filling it in with, like, you know, lines of action
and dialogue and stuff like that. Gotcha. Okay,
so real quick, very quick aside, have you heard
Malcolm Gladwell's revisionist History podcast where he

(45:49):
tells a story about how Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah came to
be? No. You are going to
fucking love this story. I'm definitely going to send it
to you so you can listen to the full thing. It's a podcast that he
has, and he usually tells two or three stories within a
half hour. So it's probably a ten or 15 minutes story. But it's so

(46:10):
crazy. I forget who was. I'm just gonna
very high level, like, paraphrase it. But
essentially, it was. The Hallelujah song
was written and performed by it, by someone once upon a time, and
then that person could never get it to go,
or, like, the record label that they were on didn't like it, or whatever the

(46:32):
case may be. But that person was really into the song
and used to perform it live all the time. And I think.
I think it was. JEFF BUCKLEy was, like, in the audience or something,
and then asked that person if he could do a rendition of that song, and
then they agreed to it, and I'm butchering the story. But
then Jeff Buckley started doing it, and there were, like, a bunch of

(46:55):
different versions of it than the, like, the famous version
now and there. His
record label wouldn't put it out either, and
then it was, like, on a b side of something. And one
day. Leonard Cohen? Yes, Leonard Cohen. Yes, yes, yes. Leonard Cohen.
Leonard Cohen. It was, like, on the. On the b side of something.

(47:18):
And then this housekeeper in Brooklyn
was, like, cleaning this record executives apartment or house one
day, and she just grabs the cd and puts it in. He used to get,
like, I think, like, a bunch of, like, different cds and tapes and stuff like
that to, like, here to see if he would sign people or something like that.
And she, like, put it on randomly while she was cleaning the house,

(47:40):
left it in, and then that record exec heard it,
then, you know, immediately, like, signed him or something like that. And, like, from there
is where the song. Song became popular and, like, blew up and stuff like that.
And it's like this beautiful story of, like, happenstance and, like,
this, like, sliding doors, like, type of thing. And I completely butchered the story. So
I apologize to anybody listening. No. Oh, my God. That makes.

(48:02):
It makes me want to cry. Do you know why? Because that is the fucking
essence. That's the thing. Like, as artists, we create things.
And you know, in your heart, they're beautiful, but these fucking
people who decide who objectively, who judge and
decide, no, your shit's not good enough, or, I don't like that. The fucking
stuff like that. Yeah. Yes. And. And

(48:25):
something so beautiful and divine can, like, fucking sit
in a drawer never to be seen or heard again because of these
bullshit chase makers with their bullshit tastes, like. And
then it's just the miracle of just one person. Like,
bringing it to light can change everything. Like, that is.
So it should give us all hope to

(48:48):
keep going. In fact, Maharishi, who is
the founder of transmonitation, when asked what is the key
to success, he said two words, conviction
and perseverance or persistence.
Conviction and persistence. Nice. And so, for
us, as creatives or artists, your only job is

(49:09):
to create your stuff, believe in it, and persist. That's all you can
do, right? Definitely. Yeah, dude, that story makes me cry
because what a beautiful song. Like, and it could have just
never came out because of the world we live in with
people and their taste. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And I. About your writing process. So I do something very similar.

(49:31):
I always start, like, pen to paper, whether it's, like, a short with, like,
anything, a short story, longer idea. And
actually my first book, which is. I call it
the poor man's war of art, because it's very much so
within that vein, it's called make way for you, which is a collection
of tips for getting out of your own way. And it's a collection of,

(49:54):
like, free writing. So I have a bunch of notebooks where I just do free
writing. Like, I'll sit, you know, with my pen and paper and just start writing
first thing that comes to mind, type of thing. Very, like, flow state style.
And then after filling out, like, a notebook or two,
when I. Way back in the beginning, when I started, you know, trying to,
like, take writing and, like, just creative pursuits, like, seriously.

(50:15):
And as, instead of, you know, just, like, a side hobby type of thing,
I started, like, reading them back and realized that it was, like,
it became me speaking to myself and, like, trying to, like,
motivate and inspire myself to pursue writing.
And I, like, I saw that through line within
it with, within those, like, freely written thoughts. And then I put together that

(50:38):
first book, which is essentially, like, a collection of those. And it's
very much so, like, for creatives and stuff like that. But I. Similar
to your writing process. Like, I always start pen to paper, and then if
I'm writing, like, a fiction story, like, I'll. Then, you know, when I get to
a point where I know what the story is or how I want it to
end or how I want to, you know, if I start with the ending, which

(50:59):
I do sometimes, like, I know what I. Where I want to get to, and
then I, like, work backwards from there. Once I have, like, enough, then I'll, you
know, go to the computer and then start, like, transcribing things
in a writing program called Scrivener is what I use. Oh, I've heard
of it. Yeah, it's great. Yeah, I couldn't recommend it enough. It's very user
friendly. It's very Microsoft word style,

(51:21):
but it also gives you a ton of other writing options. You can put it
in an index card version. You can move the index cards around, and then it
literally moves the text within the chapters around.
You have separate folders for characters,
and you can have, like, character cards where you fill in, like, background stories
and stuff like that, of characters that don't necessarily make it into the, like,

(51:43):
script itself and a bunch of, like, cool, like, little tools like that.
But that's, like, my writing process, so I'm definitely with you. Very similar.
Yeah, absolutely. That's cool. Do you write in cafes,
too? I don't. Okay. That I
don't. I usually, usually at home, I would say, or sometimes they even
like, bike riding. Like, I'll stop. Like, I carry a notebook with me, like, a

(52:05):
small one. Like, I'll stop and write something. If, like, something comes to
mind, I write down on my phone. A cool thing with Scrivener is that
you can download the scrivener app as well on your phone
and. Oh, wow. Like, on the go if you have notes. Exactly. And then they'll
all. They'll automatically be on my computer, like, when I open scriven on the computer
so I don't have to, like, anything fancy, whatever. It, like, syncs up, like,

(52:27):
perfectly so I can, like, pick up where I leave off, like, if I take
the subway or. Or whatever. Wow. I like that. Yeah,
it's. It's pretty cool. I definitely recommend it. No, it's more, like, for
pros, though. Mmm. Yeah, they
have, like, it's not. I know there's a. What's that writing
program for, like, screenplays. Final draft. Final draft. Yeah, it

(52:48):
does. Okay, that. I was definitely gonna ask you that.
It doesn't have, like, a screenplay version, but it has. For. For
pros, it has, like, different, like, short story version or, like,
longer literature versions. And it gives you, like, a few different formats to, like, play
around with, but it doesn't have a screenplay option. Okay. No, that's
cool. I want to check it out. Yeah. For my

(53:11):
other writing. And it does, like, for exporting as well. Like, you can export
it either, like, as a PDF or as a. As a word
doc. You can export it as, like, it gives you the option to, like,
put it in, like, the format that, like, kindles take,
which I forget off the top of my head what it is, but it, like,
walks you through, like, the whole thing, depending on how, you know,

(53:32):
you want to export it. So it's pretty cool and it's pretty
inexpensive. Inexpensive. I think it was, like 60 or $80, like, for the program,
like, in total. So it's pretty. It definitely does a lot for, like,
what it is. Cool. Now, about the
movies. Let's say you. You're in a cafe, you have an idea
for a movie. You start writing it, pen to paper, you transfer it to. And

(53:54):
then someone next to me starts talking on their cell phone, really loudly,
of course, and I start pretending I'm on the other
line of it. It's my biggest pet peeve. Anyway.
Oh, man. I was like, that reminds me. I was with a buddy of mine
that I do the bike riding with. We took our
bikes to get tune ups, and then we were

(54:18):
at the coffee shop down the block waiting for the bikes to be ready because
they said it would be like 20 minutes, half hour or something like, that, and
there was this dude next to us that just sat down and then he just
started talking to me. I knew his whole life story within like 15
minutes. And he was like in construction and
how he got into a fight with the foreman and then he sued and then

(54:40):
he made money. And then from that he didn't have to work again. And then
he went and I was, I was just like, what? I knew his son was
a chiropractor. And it all started cuz I literally, I was sitting in my chair
and I just like stretched. And he was like, oh, do you have lower back
pain? I was like, no. He was like, oh, my son's a good
chiropractor. And blah, blah. And for like 1520 minutes he just like chewed our ears
off. So, yeah, at least he was talking to you and not

(55:03):
into a cell phone, disregarding your personal
space. I know, right? Yeah, yeah. You know, he had the
decency to at least try to make a connection. These people on their cell phones,
like it's as if there is no other world other than theirs. And it
doesn't matter how low, how loud they talk. It's like your captive audience
to their whole inane conversation about whatever.

(55:25):
It's the worst. And my favorite is the ones that just like do it on
speaker. Like as if nobody. Oh my God, like, yes.
So you know what I do? I'm so passive aggressive. I'll like take my phone
and I'll video record them and then I'll play it back so they can hear
their loud conversation. Like play to them as they're on their phone
call. That's hilarious.

(55:47):
Yeah. All right, so tell me, how did you get, for
example, with the big shot caller? That was your first, your first feature?
How was that process from like pen to paper to final cut
pro to actually making it? How do you figure out a budget? How do you
figure out, I guess, like the number of actors and characters and stuff like that?
You, you know, obviously because you wrote the script. But how do

(56:09):
you like scout for locations? Do you need permits? Is
it more, less so the need for permits and stuff like that? Because it's not
like a production company production or something.
Well, so in that case, and I suppose with all like low budget
indies, first of all, the script can take anywhere from
several months to years to write. In that case, I think it was like

(56:30):
maybe six months with writing and rewriting. And I teamed up
with a friend of mine who became the producer and she had her
own little production company. And you'll always have to have a
producer, line producer, come up with a budget and a breakdown.
So in that case, the film was going to take 23 days
to shoot. I think over the course of four weeks, we had our budget,

(56:53):
and that's. What the line producer figures out.
Line producer? Yeah. And, you know, because you have your producer,
the creative producer is the one who, like, you know,
either has the idea or finds the script and wants to shepherd it
and kind of take ownership of it. But then a line producer is
someone you usually hire who does the budget and is more in charge

(57:15):
of that, you know, the tactile elements of
production. So they, they'll, like, read through your script and say, okay, to shoot this
type of scene in this type of location, it'll cost you x amount of dollars.
And we have to shoot for x amount of days and so on and so
forth. Well, yeah, you break it down first into all the locations, and you
figure, okay, we have all these locations, this location daytime,

(57:35):
this location nighttime, this many actors. Therefore, if we're doing
twelve hour days, it's going to take this many days, this many
exteriors. And so they know, like, well, you know, locations will cost
roughly this amount of money. Actors rate for SAG, low budget
indie is currently, like, for instance, now is 232 a day. So
we have this many characters at this much a day, and they break it down

(57:57):
according to days and shoot locations, stuff like that equipment.
There's a lot that goes into a film budget. Gotcha.
I love that level of, like, granular detail. So when they break that down.
Yeah, because for me, I'm trying to, like, liken it to, like,
my world of just like, writing books and stuff like that. It seems similar to,
like, hiring an editor, for example, that'll, you know, you have a line

(58:19):
editor, you have, you can have a concept editor. And it depends, like, what you
need. So I'm trying to, like, make that connection with that there. And I
definitely appreciate that, that level of detail. Yes, yes.
It's a lot goes into it, like the making of the budget, which is
preliminary. Then when you find out how much you need, then you go out. And
if and when you secure the money, that is when you start locking in

(58:41):
dates. You have to put in for permits right away because you're dealing with red
tape of a city or whatever, finding locations, hiring a casting
director, going through the casting for big and small characters,
hiring your key crew, like wardrobe, makeup, art
direction, you know, tp, all that stuff. Like all the different
departments. Yes. So going back to the

(59:03):
screen, the budget is, it does it work
kind of like. And I guess it's different for, like, every, like, type of film
and different, like, level of film and stuff like that. But
is it kind of like, okay, this person put up, you know,
x amount of dollars, so they own x amount of percentage of the film. Or
is it. But is it like, that type of monetary

(59:24):
relationship? Yeah. So with investors, it kind of gets
worked out depending on what you want it to be. But it's generally speaking, like,
investors get 120% of their
investment back according to the portion that they funded. Like,
let's say it's like 50 50 then, but still
it applies. Like, you would divide it after, but it's 120%.

(59:47):
And then after they recoup the 120% of profits, then
you split 50 50 with the producers, which includes the
filmmakers, you know, producers and investors. And it depends, like, if you have one investor
or several, but that gets worked out with the entertainment lawyer.
Got it. Okay, so essentially, like, if I'm an investor, I put in
$100. I get back $120 before anybody else gets

(01:00:10):
paid anything. And then whatever's left over from there, then everybody, like, splits it according
to whatever the splits are. 50 50. Exactly. Gotcha.
And what's really interesting, and I just found this out, I was talking to a
producer the other day, there is a new. There's a law, or it's been
sort of reactivated or reworked, whatever it's called, section 181. And
so for any investor investing in a movie

(01:00:31):
that's shot at least 75% in the US, they can claim
100% of it on their taxes. So it becomes a tax deductible
write off, I think. Unless the film then makes them a lot of money, then
the terms change, I believe. But anyway, for anyone out there
who wants to invest in my next movie, just bear in mind you can write
it off in your taxes. Nice. Absolutely, yes.

(01:00:53):
So tell me. Tell me about this next movie. Who is Joi
Seracha? Yeah. So who is Joi Seracha is a
dark comedy. It's a lot like Christopher guest films, like best in show waiting for
Guffman. It is about this woman who is so
traumatized by current events that she splits off into three
different personalities, and she hooks up with this

(01:01:16):
guy because she's lonely. He's not even the right guy for her, but he is
an opportunist. He's a failed musician in a cholo metal band, and
he winds up making a documentary about her in order to win enough money
to save his abuela's house from going into foreclosure. So basically,
he's using her poor mental health to make this
documentary. And it's kind of about the violence of

(01:01:38):
today's world. And can you find hope in today's world? Can you find happiness in
today's world? But it's also a comedy, and it's very much like a behind the
scenes of this documentary with everyone involved in making it. And it's very
funny. That's awesome.
I definitely saw the, like, the short, like, the teaser
thing that you have for it. Yeah, the teaser

(01:02:01):
I made where. So I play Joi Seracha and I play her three different
characters in this video. I play the three personalities. There's this, like, German
who talks about all the sex she's not having. Then there's the dominatrix goth
who's just like, everything sucks. And then there's the redhead,
like, Colombia, New York colombian character.
Anyway, and that's if you go to, like, my website, Marlene

(01:02:23):
Ryan.com, marlenerhein.com.
there's a pop up for who is Joi Seracha? It'll take you to the
page. It's kind of like a gofundme. I partnered with the nonprofit, so all
donations are tax deductible. But you'll see the
video that I shot on my iPhone with me as the three different characters talking
about the film and why you should donate. Yes, that I definitely saw. And for

(01:02:45):
folks listening, I will link to it in the episode notes as well, along with
all of Marlene's links and website and YouTube and all that
good stuff for folks to check out also.
Awesome. Awesome. And thank you. Yes.
One last question. Hopefully. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah.
So for anyone who, like, wants to see thoughtful, intelligent comedy films out

(01:03:06):
there that, you know, like, I personally scroll through Netflix, I can hardly find
anything I like. But if you're looking for, like, really good,
smart drive, funny content, that's inspiring, then support
my movies, because that's what I do. Thank you. Definitely. And supporting creatives
is what we love and are all about here at the spot Today podcast.
Nice. One quick technical question that I wanted to ask you about before I

(01:03:29):
let you go. And again, thank you so much for taking the time to come
on the show today and sharing. Oh, my God. Thank you for having me. This
is awesome. Yeah. The difference between cinematography and
directing my very
uninformed take on what it is is that director is like
the shot caller running the show, and the
cinematography is the person that's holding the camera. And the director might say, you know,

(01:03:52):
point it that way. And I want something from, like, the torso to the person's
head or something like that? Is that what it is? Or am I like, just
like. Yeah. So basically, like, the. The cinematographer is
also called the director of photography, but this, it's kind of like the
cinematographer is basically like the photographer, and the director
is the. I mean, sometimes is the writer, but is the

(01:04:15):
creators, so to speak. So the director is really, like
the big chief, like, the one who's, like, calling the shots. He's like, this is
what I want, is what we're going to do. And the cinematographer or the director
of photography is basically capturing
that through the visuals. Like, the director will
say, I want to do this. I'm thinking, like, wide shot, blah, blah.

(01:04:36):
And the director of photography will be like, I'll put on a wide lens,
like 25 millimeter, 16 millimeter. And then he'll tell his
ac, get me the 16 mil lens out of the kit, and he'll tell the
gaffer, let's put that light over there, throw the ring light here,
or he'll throw all the technical terms out to his department
to set up the shot in the way that the director sees.

(01:04:58):
Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. And then, of course, sometimes you have really bossy
director photography who, like, don't agree, and they're like, no, that's ridiculous. This should
definitely be a tight shot. We should put a long lens and should go out
of focus. And, you know, you have these people, like, insist that they know it's
better, and that's a different story. But for the most part, yet, the director's in
charge. Yeah. Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. Okay. That's always something. I wonder. And that's

(01:05:19):
cool. The. The cinematographer is the photographer. The director
of director. Exactly. And for short, DP.
God. Okay. I always thought the, for some reason in my mind, like, the director
of photography was like, you know, like, at the end of movies when they show
credits and stuff like that and you see, like, still photos, I always thought that
was the director of photography, that that's all, like, somebody walking around taking pictures

(01:05:41):
on set type of thing. Oh, no, that's the behind the scenes
photographer. Oh, okay. Nice BTS. Yeah. In fact,
I was just talking to the line producer who did my budget for, who was
Joi Seracha. I was like, we need money in here for behind the scenes photographer.
And that's someone who, like, goes around, takes pictures behind the scenes,
interviews people to, you know, that whole thing. That's awesome. Okay, that sounds

(01:06:02):
like a, like, definitely a dope gig there. All right.
Marlene well, thank you again, once again for taking the time to come on the
show. Really, really dope conversation and I can't wait to see who is Joi Seracha
and definitely can't wait to see when the base drops after that. Thank
you so much. It's been a real pleasure talking to you and I'm grateful to
have been on your show. Thanks. Talk to you later guys. Peace.

(01:06:25):
And that folks, was episode
263 of the Spun Today
podcast. How dope was that episode? I want to hear all about it. All
your thoughts. Hit me up in the comments on IG, Facebook, YouTube,
directly on my website, in the comment section, or email me.
All of Marlene's contact information will be linked in the

(01:06:47):
episode notes, whether it's the landing page for the who is Joi
Seracha? You guys can go support her IMDb, her social
media and all that good stuff. Also, special shout out to Tink
media, by the way, which is a dope site where Marlene
and I connected and I've connected with other podcasters and
potential guests. It's a way for podcasters and guests to interact

(01:07:09):
and go on each other's shows or promote each other's shows.
So fellow podcasters out there should definitely check that site out. Tink
Media Co. I'll link to that in the episode notes as well. And
of course, special shout out and thank you once again to Marlene Ryan for taking
the time to come on the sponsor day podcast. You absolutely have
an open invitation. I can't wait to see more of your films get

(01:07:31):
made and come to fruition. That, folks, once again, was episode
263 of the Spun Today podcast. Please stick around for a couple more
minutes so you can hear about different ways you can help support
this show if you so choose. Until next time,
peace. What's up folks?
Tony here. I hope you're enjoying the Spun Today podcast as much

(01:07:53):
as I enjoy producing it for you. Here are a few ways you can help
support the show. You can support the Spun today podcast
financially by going to spuntoday.com.
there you will find a couple different ways that you can do just that, some
of which will actually not even cost you a dime, such as
using my Amazon affiliate link. When you go to

(01:08:14):
sponsodate.com support, you'll see my affiliate
link to Amazon. Click on it and it will take you to Amazon's website
where you can do your shopping like normal. This will not cost you anything
extra, but Amazon will pay me for driving traffic to their
website. If you'd like to support the podcast more directly,
you can do so by becoming a patron@spuntoday.com.

(01:08:36):
support you'll also find my Patreon link. This is where
creators such as myself can be paid directly by patrons like
you. You can either make a one time donation or
schedule recurring donations if you so choose. There are also different tiers
of support and depending on which you decide to go with, you'll also receive some
perks in return, such as early access to content, free digital copies

(01:08:58):
of my books, free bookmarks, etcetera. That is again,
by supporting via my Patreon link
available@sponsoday.com support similar to
Patreon, at that same location you'll also find my ko fi link as well
as my buy me a coffee link. They work very similar to
Patreon and are different ways that you can help support the show financially.

(01:09:19):
And last but certainly not least, you have the good old fashioned PayPal
donation button. Any which way that you choose to support is
greatly appreciated. It all helps me do more of what I love, which is writing
and podcasting. Again, go to spuntoday.com
support. You can also support the Spun Today podcast
by rating and reviewing the show. Wherever it is that you're listening to

(01:09:42):
this episode, I'd really appreciate it because it really does help.
Also, follow me on all social socials on today
on X, formally known as Twitter on today on
Instagram and Puntoday on YouTube, where
you'll not only find full length episodes of the podcast, but also
chopped up clips and additional content. And of course, you

(01:10:05):
can follow the Facebook page@facebook.com.
spun today another way you can help support the Spun Today
podcast and also upgrade that stale wardrobe of yours
is by going to spun today.com support and
clicking on the banner for Stitch Fix. Once you do,
you'll enjoy a $25 discount to your first purchase. And the way

(01:10:27):
stitch fix works is pretty cool. I use it and I've never been disappointed. You'll
set up a profile. You'll put in all the sizes for your clothes
as well as all the different brands and types of clothes that you
like to wear. It's really simple and intuitive to set up. They'll show you pictures
and pretty much give you a thumbs up or thumbs down option on if you
would wear something or not. And you get to select all the brands that you

(01:10:49):
already are used to wearing. With this information, there are thousands
of passionate, trend setting stylists will curate
a stitch fix box for you. They'll send you five items that you get to
preview before they mail it to you and you'll get to select based on the
image if you like it or not. If not, they'll replace it with something else
and if so, they'll mail it to you absolutely for free. You can try

(01:11:10):
everything on and you have a few days to send everything back or
keep the stuff that you want to keep. Then you can use that $25 credit
that I mentioned towards your purchase of those items again. To
freshen up your wardrobe and also support the sponsor Day podcast. Go
to sponsorday.com forward slash support and click
on my affiliate link banner for Stitch fix and enjoy your

(01:11:32):
$25 credit. Do you want to start your own podcast?
Have a great show idea that you want to get out into the masses but
don't know quite how to get it from your head out into the world?
Well, here's how. Use the podcast host
Lipsyn. That's who I use to bring the Spun Today podcast to
you. And now you can use them the same way. Using the

(01:11:53):
promo code spun spun, you can open up your
lipsn account today and get two months of free
podcast hosting. Here's how it works. Once you record
your show, you upload it to your Lipsyn account where you can fill in
your episode notes, upload your podcast art, and
schedule when you want your episodes to release. Once you

(01:12:16):
do that, Libsyn will take care of the rest. They'll distribute your show to
Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, and all the
other podcasters that you choose instantaneously and
seamlessly. Again, go to libsyn.com and use the promo
code spun spun to get two months free,
or use the affiliate link that's in the episode notes. Again,

(01:12:39):
that's libsyn.com promo code spun. Take that
great podcast idea from out of your head and put it out into the
world. And as always, folks, substitute the
mysticism with hard work and start taking steps in the general
direction of your dreams. Thanks for listening.

(01:13:10):
I love you Aiden. I love you daddy.
I love you, Grayson. I love you daddy.

All Episodes

#263 – Writing, Directing, and The Power of Authentic Creativity with Marlene Rhein

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

On Purpose with Jay Shetty

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#263 – Writing, Directing, and The Power of Authentic Creativity with Marlene Rhein