#288 - Daredevil’s Gray Morality and Emotional Hooks: Storytelling Insights for Writers

Welcome to Episode 288 of the Spun Today Podcast with Tony Ortiz, where creativity takes the spotlight and storytelling is always at the heart of the conversation. In this episode, Tony dives deep into the writing brilliance of the Daredevil TV series, exploring seasons one through four and unearthing valuable insights every writer and creative can appreciate. From the artful mirroring of hero and villain to the series’ thoughtful examination of moral ambiguity, Tony unpacks the narrative craft that elevates Daredevil beyond the typical superhero genre.

 

But that’s not all—Tony also shares his experience attending Jeff Ross’s one-man Broadway show, offering a peek behind the curtain into comedy, resilience, and the importance of seizing the moment. And in his ongoing segment “Goats Doing Goat Shit,” he pays tribute to trailblazers Matt Stone and Trey Parker for their game-changing moves with South Park.

 

Tune in for practical writing takeaways, reflections on character, layered backstories, and the power of authentic detail—all through an inspiring, creative lens. Whether you’re a writer, a lover of great stories, or just someone chasing the next spark of inspiration, this episode is packed with gems to fuel your craft.

 

The Spun Today Podcast is a Podcast that is anchored in Writing, but unlimited in scope.  Give it a whirl.   

 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
And the show constantly forces you to see them as two sides of
the same coin. And that's really good story writing right there.
When your hero and your villain basically are mirror
images of each other, you don't get just good versus evil,
black and white. You get a meditation on choice,
on morality. And you get to see how two different people, two

(00:22):
different personalities, can internalize a very similar trauma,
very relatable pains. And you get to see what it is that they do
with it.

(00:50):
What's up? What's up folks? What's going on? And welcome to the Sponsor Day Podcast,
the only podcast that is anchored in writing but unlimited
in scope. I'm your host, Tony Ortiz, and I appreciate you listening.
This is episode 288 of the Spun Today Podcast and
in this episode I am going to be speaking about
the Daredevil TV series from season

(01:13):
one all the way through season four. And I'm going to be sharing a ton
of writing insights, gems and takeaways for my
fellow writers and creatives out there. So definitely stick around for that.
I'm also going to speak about going to see the Roast Master
himself, Jeff Ross, in his limited run on
Broadway, one man show. Stick around to find out if I

(01:35):
got roasted and I'll give you a hint. I was in
the second row. And last but not least, in another
addition to your favorite segment in mind, we will be
inducting another member onto the Goats
Doing Goat Shit list. Please stick around for all that good stuff.
But first I wanted to tell you all about a quick way that you can

(01:57):
help support this show. Your support means a ton. By way
of motivation to continue putting out these episodes,
your support also helps to keep the proverbial lights on here
at Spun Today Studios. So aside from visiting
spunteray.com support for a bunch of different
ways that you can help, here's one way that will go a long way

(02:20):
and then we'll jump right into the episode.
If you're a fellow creative, a cool way that you can help support the Spun
Today Podcast and actually be part of the podcast is by filling out
my five question questionnaire [e-mail]
questionnaire. Here you'll find five open questions related to your
craft, your art, what inspired you to create, what type of unrelated

(02:43):
hobbies you're into, and what motivates you to get your work done.
You can choose to remain anonymous or plug your website and your work.
And once you submit your questionnaire, I read your responses on a future
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could potentially spark inspiration in someone else, why not share

(03:05):
that spun2date.com questionnaire
the Daredevil TV series originally aired from 2015 to
2018. That time period gave us seasons one through three.
Then in 2025 season four came out, which
actually picked up where season three left off.

(03:27):
And for those who may not know, the series is based
on the Marvel comic book character
Daredevil, where, quote, a blind lawyer by day
and vigilante by night, Matt Murdock
fights the crime of New York as Daredevil. End
quote. As we like to do here on the Spot Today podcast, let's give

(03:50):
a shout out to the writers. And there are a bunch, especially when
you factor in all four seasons as well as the comic
book creators of the character. But bear with me, because
these writers definitely do deserve their flowers. Let's start
off first and foremost with the late great Stan
Lee, who absolutely deserves his own

(04:13):
applause break there, followed by Bill Everett,
Drew Goddard, Luke Kaltue,
Ruth Fletcher, Christos N. Gage,
Whit Anderson, Sneha Course,
Dylan Gallagher, Tanya Kang, Sarah
Stryker, Douglas Petri,

(04:36):
Marco Ramirez, Stephen S. Denight,
Lauren Schmidt Hissrich, Eric
Olson, Joe Pokowski, John
C. Kelly, Mark Ver, Jim Dunn,
Sam Ernst, Dara Resnick, Tamara
Boettcher, Sone Hoffman, Niwa

(04:57):
Nasserdine, Wally Wood, Matt Corman,
Chris Ord we're almost getting there, folks. Dario
Scartepane, Katherine Blair, Devin
Kliger, Jill Blankenship, Jesse
Wigato, Heather Belson, David
Fahge, Durrain Godfrey, and last but

(05:19):
certainly not least, Thomas Wong.
Shout out to each and every one of the writers that put
this amazing series together. The main focus of this breakdown
has to do with how the writing uses moral
ambiguity, emotional backstory and world building
to make the story resonate beyond the comic book genre. So if

(05:42):
that interests you, please stick around.
Daredevil isn't just another Marvel superhero movie, but or show
rather. What struck me while watching seasons one through four, especially
the first three, which came out almost a decade ago,
is how much it plays like a gritty
crime drama first and a comic book story second.

(06:04):
Thought it was really ahead of its time in that regard. The tone of the
series is much darker than what you would expect from
a comic book superhero series. There's
cursing and blood and violence, and it's really a masterclass
in writing, creativity and storytelling. And the very beginning of the
series sets the tone. Matt Murdock's

(06:25):
character, AKA Daredevil, played by Charlie Cox.
His origin story is tragic, like a lot of heroes.
But in his case, he gets blinded as a kid by these
toxic chemicals. And he did so by saving,
like, an old man's life that he saw was going to get hurt by them.
And the last thing that he saw before losing his eyesight forever was

(06:47):
his father rushing to his side. And that detail alone is such
a powerful hook. The idea that the final image burned into his
memory is his dad, the man that he'll
spend the rest of his life trying to live up to. And then, of course,
fast forwarding a bit. His father, Sacrifice was
an amateur boxer refusing to throw a fight

(07:09):
so that his son can see him win cleanly, only
for him to get killed by the mob, leaving his son, who was already
without a mother, now blind and without a father.
So from Jump, you realize that Daredevil is
about the cost of honor and the sense of morality
that the series wrestles with throughout and how

(07:33):
individual trauma shapes us. And what is a good superhero
story without a great villain? Right? And what makes it
even more of a brilliant series is how Matt's
backstory mirrors his villain's backstory.
Wilson Fisk, AKA the Kingpin,
played by the illustrious Vincent d',

(07:55):
Onofrio, as a kid, killed his own father.
He was like this meek little kid and he had a really abusive father
that was always like, pushing him and like, forcing him to, like, stand up for
himself to the point that he, like, would beat him up and then go
with him to beat up the bullies that beat up his son.
His father, Bill Fisk, played by another great

(08:18):
actor, Dominic Lombardozo, as a young kid, just snaps
at his father's abuse. This time he was like, abusing his mom to
stand up for his mom. Hits his father in the back of the head with
a hammer and just doesn't stop until he's non
responsive. And then the mother, half in shock and half
relieved because this monster that abused them both for years

(08:40):
is now dead. She winds up helping her son
cover it up, which imprinted in his mind that
he did something good, something positive. He protected his mother.
It was validating the action, as violent and
gruesome and horrible as it was. And then he
carries that trauma forward in his own way. And the show

(09:02):
constantly forces you to see them as two sides of the same
coin. And that's really good story writing right there. When
your hero and your villain basically are mirror images of each other,
you don't get just good versus evil,
black and white. You Get a meditation on choice, on

(09:22):
morality, and you get to see how
two different people, two different personalities, can internalize a very
similar trauma, very relatable pains.
And get to see what it is that they do with it. By season two,
the storytelling deepens with the introduction of
another iconic Marvel character, Frank Castle,

(09:44):
AKA the Punisher, played by the great Jon Bernthal.
And his character is so good that there's a spin off series,
the Punisher, which I also began watching for the first time with
his character. And that takes place within the same world. But
the introduction of his character into this series was genius.
His character and Matt's character, they want the exact same thing, which is

(10:07):
justice. But they couldn't be more different with how they want to get
there. Daredevil, although he beats the shit out of
the bad guys, he refuses to kill, he has like that
Batman esque type moral code where he
can't kill. Plus by day he's a lawyer.
And his idea of justice, and we see it get more and more

(10:30):
jaded as the series progresses, but is to use
the law to get justice and put the bad guy, the bad guys
behind bars. Whereas on the flip side, the Punisher
doesn't hesitate to kill any and every bad guy.
He's a kill first, don't even bother asking questions later type of dude.
And he has his own code where he's

(10:52):
utterly ruthless, but only towards bad guys.
But then you fall into that like moral ambiguity of who is it that
gets to the decide who's bad and who's good. And his character,
Daredevil's butt head. Butt heads rather
throughout season two on this very topic. And
there's this great scene that takes place at a cemetery

(11:15):
where we get a bit of insight into Punishers mysterious
character. And he gives this monologue which I'll get into in a
bit, but where essentially he tells us about losing his family. And it's
haunting and it makes you understand him and why he is the
way he is, even if you don't agree with how he goes
about getting his version of justice. And that's the

(11:37):
type of gray morality that really kept me hooked into the series.
And then to mix things up even more, the writers did a
phenomenal job with how they actually have
Punisher and Fisk work together temporarily
out of necessity because they hate each other. You know,
Fisk is like the quintessential bad guy. You know, he's the kingpin,

(12:00):
pulling all the strings with all the evil that's going on. So they're definitely at
odds. But For a brief moment, their interests
align. And that's such a great writing move. To complicate
alliances, to muddy the morality, to
make the. To put the heroes in situations where they have to team up up
with villains and vice versa. And not necessarily because they want to,

(12:22):
but because the story demands it. The situation that was created demands it.
That's top tier tension right there. We also have a great
character in Foggy Nelson, played by Eldon Henson,
which is Matt Murdock's college law
school best friend and now partner.
And he's like the physical manifestation of what

(12:46):
keeps Matt's faith in the law, in the legal
system. He's also one of the first, if not the first character in
the series to learn about Matt's
double life, his secret identity as Daredevil. Then by the time
we get to season three, the series starts peeling back layers. Through
backstory, we find out that

(13:08):
Fisk is manipulating an FBI agent known as
Benjamin Point Dexter, AKA Dex,
played by Wilson Bethel. And the way they visually show
Fisk, like reading his case files while
we see flashbacks into Dex's like
troubled childhood and how he was like a sociopath since he was

(13:31):
little, a really troubled kid in therapy,
but excelled in whenever he was in environment. In an
environment with a specific rigid framework like
the military, like the FBI, the corporate environment even
worked for him for some time. But it's like a double edged sword
because we find when put into a negative

(13:54):
version of that rigid framework such as
organized crime, and essentially given the
license and cover to kill and do
crime. He also excels at that. He's a
really interesting character in the series. And you have Karen Page's
character, played by Deborah Ann Wall, who

(14:15):
becomes a paralegal at first for
Matt and Foggy when they open up their fledgling law firm
and then pivots to being like this
sidekick slash reporter and we find that her
character in time, we find that she's carrying a
shitload of trauma and guilt and regret that

(14:37):
we realize shape her choices throughout the series. Which is
a really good reminder for us as writers that if you want your characters
to feel real, give them scars. Like, don't be afraid
to darken their past, even if it's not something that's
revealed right away or revealed at all. I also enjoyed how the series
specifically where I noticed it more, wasn't season four, but where it leans into

(15:00):
realism with all these, like, small cultural
details that just made this fantastical superhero
landscape feel more grounded and
realistic. Some examples of which, which I'll admit in
advance, I'M a bit biased too, would be the Dominican
flag hanging up in the gym, which is the same gym Matt's

(15:22):
father used to box at. And now I believe Matt owns
it or owns the space, even though it doesn't operate as a gym anymore.
There was also a scene with Bustelo Coffee, which is my go
to coffee of choice, what we have here at home, and the Greca, which is
the first time I've seen a Greca. It's like a stovetop percolator.
That's also what I used to make coffee. That was dope to

(15:44):
see in the series. There's some powerful social commentary about the legal
system, crime and poverty,
some of which I'll circle back to. But it's just that that
level of grounding detail that helps
keep a genre story like this one from floating away into just being
fantasy and fantastical superhero stuff. And of course, I'd be

(16:06):
remiss if I didn't highlight the great
John Wick level brutal violence within the series. It's
really action packed and I thought they did a great job with it, for
example. And some, some, some of which is very unexpected.
It kind of takes you off guard. But like Wilson Fisk

(16:27):
snapping at some someone
that something up and they were in his car
or in the suv and he grabs the person,
just starts hitting him and then puts his head, opens
the car door, puts his head there and just slams the car door
on the person's head until there's literally no more head.

(16:50):
Then you have this other amazing scene where
someone at a, you know, lower level on the totem pole within
Fisk's crime syndicate organization,
Daredevil, gets to him and beats him up into
divulging that he works for Fisk. But instead

(17:10):
of facing the consequences of if and when
Fisk finds out that he gave up his name,
he knows that Fisk would then get retribution
on him and his family. The guy just gets up after getting fucked up by
Daredevil, who's a very talented martial artist by the way, and tells
him something to the effect of what Fisk would do to him is way worse

(17:33):
than anything else. And the guy just takes
himself and like headbutts this metal rod
spike sticking out of like a concrete wall, just headbutts
himself into it through his eye and kills himself
standing up. It was sick. I rewatched that scene a couple times. I was
just like. It was so unexpected. I was like, what? You have another scene

(17:55):
later on in the series where Fisk takes
the police commissioner, which he has since blackmailed. But
he's having like a change of heart and not wanting to follow
suit with Fisk and his dealings and helping them out.
And Fisk just literally takes his head and squeezes it
because they depict him as having like this not superhuman

(18:18):
strength, but just extremely strong big dude.
And he just grabs him by the skull and just squeezes and
squeezes and squeezes until he like
breaks his whole fucking face. His skulls just caves it
in on both sides and rips his jaw
off of his face at the same time. It was just like, holy

(18:40):
fuck. You do not see some of these things coming.
And these aren't just shock moments. They are shock moments, but they
aren't just that. They're like narrative turning
points. Whenever these peaks of violence occur,
there are changes in relationships, there are shifts in
alliances, and the situations force different

(19:03):
characters that witness them or they are affected by them.
It forces them into like, new moral territory. So a
few high level takeaways for myself and fellow
writers out there that I got from the Daredevil series would be,
first, to mirror your hero and villain
so that they reflect each other's wounds. Second.

(19:25):
And if I had to rank these, I'd probably rank this
one as like. Most important in this type of storytelling
is to embrace the gray morality. It's way
more compelling to have gray, gray, morally ambiguous
characters than having just black and white good
vers, evil type characters. And third,

(19:48):
sprinkle backstory throughout, like present action
so that the payoff of the knowledge of those backstories feels earned
versus just like dumped via exposition.
And actually one more, which is don't underestimate
the power of like, really small, authentic details, even if most
folks don't catch it. Just like, I'm sure a bunch of those

(20:12):
that stood out to me, like the Dominican flag and bustedo coffee and the Greca
and stuff like that, are things that like, resonated with me. But I'm sure there
were a bunch of other, whether it be cultural
or otherwise, elements that just didn't
necessarily resonate with me, but that did with other
folks that watch the show. They probably had that same effect on

(20:34):
them as those things had on me. Now let's dive a little bit
deeper related to character origins and
emotional hooks. The initial trauma that we see
Matt's character go through is the blinding accident
and the act of heroism that he committed by saving the old man
that was about to get hurt from these barrels of like toxic

(20:56):
chemicals that were falling off of a truck. I believe it was. But that
act of heroism Planted the seed which had the lasting
consequences of his vigilante heroism
in the future. There was also a scene early on in the series
where he's in a church confessional
booth, this church that he frequents. And later it's

(21:19):
revealed that it's actually the foster home of
the church that he grew up in once his dad was killed. So he
has this bond with the priest of the
church, the father of the church. But he
gives this jaded monologue
while in the confessional booth. All around

(21:41):
faith and guilt, justice and good versus
evil, and asking for forgiveness for things that he's going to do.
And it kind of sets the moral tone for the series. And then we have
his father's sacrifice where his father chose
honor over survival. He knew very well that he
was gonna get killed for doing what he did.

(22:05):
He had an arrangement with the mob where he would throw fights and
the mob would bet against him for specific
rounds where he would throw fights. You know, he would
obviously get his ass kicked. He'll make money.
And it was like steady income. But he kind of had this chip on his
shoulder about it because he wanted and could

(22:26):
win a lot of those fights. And Matt, at the time, his son was
a little boy. He didn't know about this. These are arrangements with the
mob. He just thought his dad, you know, won some in law and lost some.
But his father chose honor over survival and that he wanted his son
to see him win versus the outcome of what he knew was
gonna happen, because the mob was gonna lose a shitload of money if he did

(22:48):
that. And that honor verse survival
dynamic we see mirrored in Matt's
later struggles throughout the entire series. And a great writing
insight to take away is that starting with
formative trauma creates immediate emotional investment.
And then adding to that, having your villain

(23:11):
parallel and mirror your protagonist is also
a great tool. But we have Fisk, for example, who
has an abusive father, not a loving father. But with what happened
with Fisk killing his own father as a kid, he
winds up in this very similar orphan like
situation as Matt does. And it humanizes him

(23:33):
in a way. Like once that's revealed, you're like, oh, this kid is all screwed
up from when he was little. And then it kind of like gives license,
gives much more understanding to how it is that he became
who he became. And it serves as a way to deepen that hero
villain connection. Now diving into gray morality and
complicated alliances, which I thought the introduction of

(23:56):
the Punisher's character did so very impressively
and very poignantly. He And Daredevil have this moral
red line in the sand where Daredevil has a no kill stance
against bad guys and Punisher has a
kill them twice if you can stance. And now,

(24:16):
circling back to that cemetery monologue that I mentioned earlier, where
we get more insight into his character and why he
has this bloodlust. He tells Red, as he calls
Daredevil, this story about returning home from war,
he was a Marine. And surprising his daughter at school.
And then spending days with her, reading to her,

(24:39):
and then ultimately having to hold her lifeless body in his arms
because she and his son and
his wife all got murdered in front of him. And
when you have a backstory like that in a character, you're like,
may not agree with the approach, but I get it. Then you have
another complicated alliance in a character

(25:02):
by the name of Elektra Nachios, played by
Elodie Young. Now, Electra's character I remember from
the comic books, and in this series, she plays like
the old flame of Matz,
definitely one that has his number
emotionally. And she grew up very similar, orphaned,

(25:24):
mentored by the same person stick, which I'll speak about in a bit. But
she doesn't have the same moral compass that Matt does.
She's a paid assassin. She's involved in corporate
espionage. She's all about riches and has, like, no
qualms about it. And a writing insight that these characters definitely
highlight is that moral gray areas

(25:45):
force the audience to question their own values. And we as writers
can deepen the stakes of a story by pairing
characters with similar goals but opposite methods.
Like, for example, a Daredevil and a Punisher, or a
Punisher and a Wilson Fisk, or
Daredevil and an Electra, so on and so forth. And

(26:07):
circling back to the alliance between Punisher and
Fisk, which I mentioned earlier, the temporary alliance,
just to expand on it a bit, is that
they were these two enemies that were working together
for a temporary amount of time because their
goals overlap, knowing that they were going to clash again in the future.

(26:30):
And the situation was essentially that Fisk gave
the Punisher an opportunity for him to avenge his families
that death. So the literal origin of his
bloodlust, that he now has to go like
scorched earth on all bad guys,
especially having to do with the death of his family, Fisk

(26:53):
facilitates him being able to do so. And the
benefit for Fisk is that a lot of the people that he
points the Punisher towards are his competition
within the criminal underbelly. And
both of them essentially agree to this. Alliance, but with the
understanding that once this temporary period is over, it's

(27:16):
back to on site. Now speak a bit
about layering backstories and the
depth of certain characters. The way they did this with the dynamic
between Fisk and
FBI Agent Dex is that they used
flashback scenes sprinkled throughout the

(27:39):
present day so you knew where things were going to end up
as the story progressed. But it also
ratcheted up the suspense because you're learning
about certain elements from his past while following spirit
specific actions in his present. And that was just a great
creative way to show Fisk's ability to

(28:02):
manipulate even someone as high up as like an FBI agent
and kind of bring them into his fold while also showing us what
Agent Dex was capable of. Then probably one of the
craziest backstories in the series was
Karen's Karen Page's tragic past,
which for us as the audience complicates her

(28:26):
like idealistic bend that we
come to know in the series while also making us understand how
it fuels her risk aversion or not risk
aversion, but her. It fuels her risky
choices that she makes throughout the series. And her backstory is
essentially how mother dies of cancer. Her, her father,

(28:49):
brother and herself are left with the
carrying on the family business, which is this fledgling hole
in the wall diner that she's the unofficial glue
for keeping everything together. She also has
this druggie boyfriend and likes to party and she does drugs

(29:10):
and sells drugs with the boyfriend. Kind of her way to
unwind like just the stress and tension of
keeping everything up on the family front but also wanting
more. And she's really smart but puts off
going to college because of the death of the mother and this
feeling of being like anchored to home to help the father and brother.

(29:33):
And they kind of sort of push her into going to college, to
going away. But more so because the folks father also wants
to get her away from this like druggie boyfriend. And it all
comes to a head when she gets home like
drunk and high with the boyfriend who's also drunk and high. And
the brother confronts the boyfriend and tells him to like stay away from her. They

(29:55):
get into a fight but the boyfriend is, you know, it's not just like a
shoving match type of fight or you know, a couple punches thrown.
Like the boyfriend is like him off and about to hurt him, like grabs a,
a bat or like something. And Karen grabs
the boyfriend's gun from the car and shoots her boyfriend
who's about to like really up her brother shoots him like in the shoulder

(30:17):
of the arm. And then to, you know, they hop in the
car, Karen and her brother, to get away
from the guy, and they're, like, speeding away.
And remember, she's, like, drunk and high. She winds up
getting into a car accident that kills her brother.
Tell me that's not fucked up and dark. And then the cherry

(30:40):
on top is that after that happens, I think the boyfriend did wind up
dying, if I'm not mistaken, or at the very least, like, getting
arrested. But it's a small town. The,
like, the sheriff was cool with the dad. They kind of, like, cover up what
happened and that it was technically Karen's fault,
you know, the death of her brother. They ruled it all on accident. And

(31:04):
the father, the cherry on top is that the father disowns her and tells her,
you know, go away, do what you want with your life, but get the out
of here, basically. And that's all backstory that, once revealed,
once we peel back those layers, we have such a different
understanding of Karen's character and the choices that
she's made thus far. Far. And that she continues to make throughout

(31:26):
the series. Then you have Ray Nadeem's character, another FBI
agent played by J. Ali. He's like this good man
trapped in a corrupt system. Fisk and Dex
compromise him. And, you know, he has a wife and a small kid, and
because of that fear of what could happen to them, goes along,
but then regrets it and

(31:50):
winds up going to the chief of the FBI in this, like, private
meeting at her house with, like, the legal
rep from the FBI. He, like, calls this meeting to tell her everything,
that he and Dex are compromised because of Wilson
Fisk, so on and so forth. And then the.
His boss, the agent, shoots in her kitchen, by the way.

(32:12):
They're sitting in her kitchen, and her kid just went off to school. School.
She shoots that legal rep in the head, and it's revealed that even
she's working for Fisk. Even she's compromised. So Ray
Nadeem's character is, like, caught between a rock and a hard place where he's like,
I came clean. And now my boss is even
corrupted by all this. It's just a great writing insight to take away

(32:34):
from those backstories. Is that layering in
backstories and, you know, using flashback scenes
into the present narrative instead of just, like, dumping it all at
once. It keeps the tension high throughout your story and definitely
rewards attentive readers and viewers.
However it is that you're telling your story. And I wanted to shout out a

(32:57):
few other notable characters And a few lines of dialogue
from some of them, starting with Ben Urich,
played by Von D Curtis Hall. He's like the
OG Walter Cronkite, like, investigative
reporter that takes Karen's
Paige's character under his wing and that's where she gets like the reporting bug and

(33:19):
ultimately winds up becoming a reporter from there on out. But
he tells her the this line that I really liked, which was,
quote, that in his experience, there are no heroes,
no villains, just people with different agendas.
Then you have this character called Stick. He is the
mentor for Matt when Matt was a child,

(33:43):
Stick, played by Scott Glenn. He's also, it's revealed later on in
the series, the mentor for Elektra as well. And everything
about him is not yet fully told. As I remember it.
It's like the series is definitely going to come to a head with
him involved in some way, shape or form. But he
essentially like brought Matt up, taught him all the martial arts that he

(34:05):
knows, nurtured him into heightening his
other senses because he is also blind. And he tells him this dope line
during training, which is that anger is a
spark and rage is a wildfire, and both are
useless if you can't control it. There's a cool character that I liked
called James Wesley, played by Toby

(34:27):
Leonard Moore. He's the right hand man
to Kingpin. He's his assistant. He's his best
friend. He's the ultimate facilitator. He would do everything from
recommending wines so that Fisk could look good on a
date requesting that wine, to handling all
his dirty work and meetings and everything under the sun.

(34:50):
And I liked how they used the dynamic of his
best friend and partner, Foggy that I mentioned earlier.
And they use that relationship dynamic between that
relationship as an exposition tool to explain more of how
Matt went from being that little blind kid, the scared
blind kid, to Daredevil because of the fact that

(35:13):
Foggy was like so pissed off that he never told them and that he's doing
it in the first place. He's worried about his friend getting hurt
and just full of shitload of questions. So as he asks those questions, we get
answers to Matt's past sprinkled throughout.
And it's this great line that Matt says to
his new legal partner, this is later on in season four

(35:37):
to Kirsten, when he's like really frustrated about how things
are going, the legal system, the fact that point that
Stir went to jail on the then get out of jail. He
delivers this great line that I liked where he says,
quote, we're not contributing to justice here, which is
babysitting chaos. I thought that was great. Now, a bit about

(35:58):
subtle world building and realism we touched on earlier,
like those cultural details. Certain things that I picked up on, like
the Dominican flag at the gym, the Bustelo coffee, the Greca,
things like that help in grounding the world
in authentic touches or with authentic touches, rather.
Matt also goes out on a date with a girl and he shouts out

(36:22):
Sal and Chris and Charlie's while he's
on this blind date with her, which, if you don't know, is
probably the greatest sandwich spot. Definitely in Queens. I would
probably say in New York at least that I've had to
date and I've got there multiple times. If you haven't gone,
he's a. A reco for you. Look up Sal and Chris.

(36:44):
Chris spelled with a K, so K, R,
I, S. It's called Sal, Chris and Charlie's. It looks like a regular, like
bodega, but they're known for their sandwiches. Go. You're going
to be online for a while, but it's. It's worth the wait. And it's
not a too crazy of a line, but you will be on the
line. But the turnover is like, really quick. Grab some chips,

(37:07):
grab. Grab yourself a beverage. You'll see the menu there
of the different types of sandwiches that they have. And then
take your sandwiches to Astoria park, which is a
nice park right under the Triborough Bridge,
I believe it is, and a nice view of the water. I've done it with
wifey. I've done it with wifey and the kids multiple times.

(37:30):
And just chill there, eat your sandwich. Taking the views.
It's nice now in the summertime, even in the fall, the spring,
highly, highly recommend. But anyway, Matt shouts out
Sal and Chris, which was definitely dope to, to hear. So that was a
nice grounding detail that, you know, made this

(37:50):
world feel more realistic. And there was this great
scene where Matt is kind of going through the motions and
helping this. He has this like pro bono case,
like, drop on his lap and he's
like preoccupied mentally thinking about
vigilante shit. And there was a shoplifter guy

(38:12):
who he's trying to convince, to plead,
to plead out and just take the five days in jail,
slap on the wrist type of thing, which he negotiated down from
like a year or two that they wanted to give this guy because he was
like a repeat offender. And the guy's pushing back, saying, I'm not. I'm not doing
five days. Yeah, I stole the fucking Food because he stole some food from a

(38:33):
supermarket. And Matt is kind of taken aback because he's like, you know, this like
high powered attorney at this point. And he like takes this case,
negotiates this sweetheart deal for this guy that should
be like over the moon thanking him. And the guy's
pushing back and telling him to do more, to do his job better.
And he's kind of like, what the.

(38:56):
But the guy Leroy, played by Charlie Hudson
iii, delivered this like little monologue to Matt telling him
that his SSI and food stamps were cut off.
And like when he went to find out why,
couldn't get a straight answer. And then his meeting was rescheduled
and really gave this like, his case fell through the cracks

(39:20):
and now he's without food type of story.
And he says this line which really resonated with me, which is that
they're willing to spend five times more
to lock me up than to feed me and I'm supposed to
be thankful. And just hearing that like sh shifted Matt's
perspective like in the moment and kind of like snapped him

(39:42):
out of that preoccupation that he was in and was a salient point.
It was a interesting social commentary on that particular
aspect of the system and poverty. And a
definite writing insight to take away from that is that small, authentic
details like that give these genre
stories a lot, little bit of real world

(40:05):
texture and they definitely go a long way. One more point that I wanted
to say about like all the like the high stakes and the brutality and the
violence throughout the series, like I mentioned earlier,
is that from a writing perspective, these like
darker genres, the type of violence that we see
works best in my opinion, when

(40:27):
it changes the trajectory of the story or of a character
or shifts their understanding about something. It's not just like violence for violence sakes.
It forces the characters into like new moral territory. I think
that's the main like writing insight to take away from
those type of visceral, violent moments. Aside from

(40:47):
just like the adrenaline jolt as an audience member
of watching these action packed scenes, a few
more high level themes and takeaways for my fellow writers out there are
the duality of a hero and a villain.
So how Matt and Fisk are mirror images of each
other, both shaped by trauma, but defined

(41:10):
by the choices that they make and how they
decide to move forward in the world. Conflict layering is another
good one where there's multiple facets throughout the
story that are at odds with each other. You have the legal system
and the law verse, vigilantes and vigilante
justice. You have different gangs verse corrupt

(41:32):
institutions, corrupt cops. You have personal
loyalty within characters verse moral duty within
characters. Another good one is the moral evolution of our
characters, like the Punisher and his
bloodthirsty approach to getting some
semblance of justice, Tra's moral slipperiness,

(41:54):
Karen's character and how all of those
characters force Matt's character, the
Daredevil's character, to reevaluate his own code in different
ways and pacing big reveals.
We learn about the Punisher's tragic past like I broke down earlier.
We learn about Karen's backstory story. We even find out in

(42:17):
the series what happened to Matt's mother shout out to
Sister Maggie, played by Joan Wally, which was
definitely a holy shit moment in the series. And all those big
reveals are strategically placed throughout the series
for a maximum emotional payoff
for us, the viewers. That's definitely something for us as writers to

(42:40):
take away, to try to do within our own stories.
And watching this series for me definitely shows
that superhero storytelling can be elevated through
like moral complexity and cultural specificity,
layered human drama and trauma. And I just wanted
to ask my dear listeners out there, which

(43:03):
Daredevil storyline hits you the hardest? Well,
was it Matt's moral struggles? Was it Wilson
Fisk's rise? Was it the Punisher's grief?
Or something else altogether? Hit me up and let me know. And the
final takeaway for my fellow writers out there is that the best
action stories aren't just about who wins the fight. They're

(43:26):
about what's at stake internally when the
fighting stops. Check out Daredevil seasons one through three
as well as season four, Daredevil Born again, streaming
now on Disney plus.
Getting to see Jeff Ross on Broadway My
wife and I got to see Jeff Ross's latest show.

(43:49):
I was about to say it was a night out on the town, but it
was actually an afternoon out, which was one of my favorite
parts of going, which was that it was a
3pm show because I'm an old head and I like whatever
activity it is that I do. I like to be done with it and back
at home by like 6 7pm so Jeff Ross clearly knows

(44:09):
his audience and there also were later shows. But
I definitely appreciate the the 3pm slot. It's a limited
series, eight week only show that's on
Broadway. Jeff Ross is
a legendary comedian. He is the roast master General. You
know, he's known for all the Comedy Central roasts and just

(44:31):
roasting in general. His stand up comedy specials. I think I broke down
on here, the one that he did with David Tell called
Bumping Mics, which is great. So when I saw this opportunity, I definitely had to
jump on it. Here is a bit about the show. Legendary
comic Jeff Ross returns home for his long awaited
Broadway debut in Take a Banana for the Ride, a

(44:53):
hilarious, heartfelt, one man show about
laughing through the pain, the importance of having thick
skin, and the vengeful pleasures of a Jewish comic
having a German dog. This 90 minute performance
is the result of a 30 year journey in comedy. A
cathartic mix of dangerous jokes, touching family

(45:15):
stories and songs that stay with you long after the current
falls. No two shows are exactly alike,
but each reveals the Roastmaster General at
his most unguarded, raw, reflective and
ridiculously funny. It'll be your most emotional night at the theater
since Mufasa died in the Lion King. And that's a great little

(45:37):
synopsis because that's what the show was. The set decoration
was great, had like a bunch of picture frames, like
really large picture frames, different sizes, just hanging up behind
him with the all the lights off in the back
so it looked like there was like a black velvet curtain or wall
that all these frames were hung up on, but they were just

(46:00):
suspended in the air and they were
actual screens. And throughout the show he's speaking about
his childhood and his dad and his mom and his sister,
his other family members, his dogs,
his grandfather, so on and so forth. And as he's
telling anecdotes of all different types

(46:23):
of stories from his life, he flashes photos on the screen,
which is really cool. You get a much deeper insight
into him as a person, as, you know, the
man and comic that he became. And if you know me, I love the
how the sausage was made type of stories. So that was definitely a real treat.
It did get emotionally heavy at times. He spoke about his

(46:45):
battle with cancer, colon cancer, his very
close friends in comedy passing away like Norm MacDonald and
told stories about him. Bob Saget told stories about him. Gilbert
Gottfried told stories about him as well. Every once in a while
he'll break out into hilarious songs,
like made up songs, which is pretty cool. He also had a couple

(47:08):
musicians with him there on stage. One was a pianist, one
was a guitarist. One of my favorite anecdotes actually from
the show was related to Judy Blume, which I
have broken down. Either her master class, I forget what it was,
or her documentary, I think it was the documentary.
I broke down here in the podcast and I just always found her like so

(47:31):
cool. Like I like want to be Judy Blume's friend. You know,
and there's a dope anecdote that Jeff
shared and, you know, speaking about his family, where his
grandmother started a catering hall in Jersey. And I
had known that his family was in the catering business and had a catering business
just from like his appearances on Rogan and, you know, different shows.

(47:54):
But what was dope about it is he spoke about how, you know,
it was a rare thing for a woman to own a business, let alone a
successful one back then. And
like what a badass his grandmother was for, for being able to start that
and how the whole family got involved in it. And then eventually his father took
it over and it was like the family business, he worked there, his sister

(48:16):
worked there. You know, different family members work there. And
it was like a known catering hall that did a bunch of events in
Jersey, like bar mitzvahs and weddings.
And Judy Blume references it in one of her
novels, which I think it was, because when he said it, it sounded
familiar. And I think it was the hey, God, it's me, Margaret. But

(48:38):
there's a line in there that says something to the effect of that every
girl's dream in Jersey is
to have her sweet 16 at
such and such catering, which I forget the name, but it
was that catering hall, his family's catering, all
that she referenced, like, that's how known it was within the community.

(49:01):
I thought that was a dope tie in Judy Bloom. And for
as heavy as it was at times, you know, he's a comics comic,
so he make. He made light of it and it was
extremely funny as well. It's a very, very balanced show, but very
self reflective. And it was sad to see, to hear his mom's
passing when he was like still a teenager and his father raising them

(49:23):
and his mother's father, his grandfather moving in with
them to help raise them, and then his father dying
and him pretty much just living with his
grandfather, slash best friend, slash roommate,
until he eventually passes away. But like many, many years later, that was like a
cool relationship that he broke down there. A ring, actually, this

(49:45):
metal ring that Jeff always wears was his
grandfather's. And his grandfather got that when
working on a Navy ship. If I remember correctly,
it was like a Nazi Navy ship that they had to break
down when it came, like onshore
here in the US I think I might be mixing up the

(50:07):
details a bit, but he was part of a group of
folks that for whatever reason had to break down the ship. And one thing he
did was take like a metal Bolt from the ship and then
pretty much like flattened it out and shaped it into a ring,
which he always wore. It's kind of like a you to the Nazis type
of thing. And then he eventually pass that on to.

(50:30):
To Jeff. And to Jeff. It's a way to remember his
grandfather, obviously, but also to
always be resilient. And it was a great showman. We had a. We had a
really good time. My only regret, because towards the
end, he did this thing where he walked through the crowd and he literally told
anybody who wants to get ro. He started, like, roasting people. And then he was

(50:51):
like, anybody who wants to get roasted, just stand up. And then when I pass
by, I'll roast you. You. I was like, at the edge of my seat, I
was like, I gotta get up. But
I didn't like an. Like a. So
I definitely regret that. And afterwards I was just thinking, you know, all the shoulda,
coulda, wouldas, and, you know, how cool would it have been to get

(51:11):
roasted by the roast master himself? It was
literally right. All I had to do is stand up for my seat. I had
to do nothing else but stand up, and I didn't fucking do it.
So let that be a lesson, kids. And then after the fact, I was reminded
of this insight that I got from the book Tools
by Phil Stutz that I actually implemented in real

(51:33):
life once when I was in a similar situation when I went to see Ari
Shafir at New York Comedy or at the Stand. I think it was
years ago, and I was
in the middle of reading that book at the time when we went to
go see him. And we're just like a regular, you know, 15 minute, 20 minute
spot. But one of the tools in the book is to

(51:56):
never. You're, like, riddled with doubt or anything like that, or hesitant about something.
Picture yourself in your deathbed and ask yourself
what you wish you would have done in that moment if you had a second
chance. So that was in my head at that
time. And normally I would have bitched out
and just stayed seated, but I actually,

(52:18):
that helped me summon up the courage, I guess,
to, like, get up. And then after Ari performed, he was like, sitting by the
bar. Then I just, like, went over to him and
introduced myself, said, what's up? And it was
extremely awkward. But, you know, I got to give him a pound and
say that I enjoy his comedy. I'm a fan, and that's pretty much it.

(52:41):
But I did it is the point. But then this time around,
I guess it's been a while since I read the book, but I didn't have
that tool floating around in my mind and wish I did.
But regardless, it was a dope experience that my wife and I both
enjoyed. And I actually scored the tickets
on the Broadway Lottery site,

(53:04):
which if anybody's not familiar, check out the website
lottery.broadwaydirect.com and it's pretty much
self explanatory, you guys can figure it out. But I actually did record
like a how to video like how to get these tickets and it's either on
my website or on YouTube somewhere. If I find it I will link to it,
but if I don't, I'll at least link to the website folks to check out.

(53:26):
And essentially they put random shows on there
on a daily basis and you have a chance to
fill out your name, your email address and you enter this lottery
and if you're picked, you get an email saying, hey, you won the
tickets, do you want to purchase them? And it's like steeply discounted
tickets that are for the show the next day usually,

(53:49):
but you can get, you know, two. Like in our case
it was two we were in the second row orchestra for.
I forget how much it was but like under 100 bucks for both
when normally those tickets are, you know, a couple hundred or 100
plus at least each. So definitely check that
out. And of course if you get the chance to go see the show

(54:13):
any which way, Jeff Ross's Take a Banana for the Ride
on Broadway, I highly recommend it.
In this episode's iteration of Goats doing Goat Shit,
the segment where I like to big up and give flowers
to folks that go above and beyond, especially within the creative

(54:34):
space. I'd like to induct the creators of South Park,
Matt Stone and Trey Parker.
And here is why. South Park's creators I'm reading from directly
from a Wealth Expanded post
which I'll link to in the episode notes. They did a great breakdown of exactly

(54:57):
what happened here. South Park's creators just
started the biggest bidding war in TV history.
Paramount and HBO were ready to bankrupt themselves for ownership
of the hit show. But when the deal hit
1.5 billion, that's billion with a bean,
these guys pulled off a move no creator had

(55:18):
ever dared. Here's the full story. For over 25
years, South park dominated late night comedy. The show built
Comedy Central into a powerhouse, generated billions
in revenue, created a global fan base that spans
generations. But in 2019, something happened that would change
everything. Paramount made a critical mistake. They

(55:41):
licensed south park to rival HBO Max
their own Streaming service wasn't ready yet. And now their
biggest asset was making money for a competitor. That's when
the real drama began. When the HBO Max deal expired
in June 2025, streaming giants went
to war. Paramount desperately wanted their

(56:03):
crown jewel back. HBO Max fought to keep
their cash cow. And Netflix started making aggressive
moves. The beating war was about to get ugly. Offers
escalated rapidly. At one point, a 10 year deal was
pitched for $3 billion. That's
$300 million per year, which is 10 times what

(56:25):
most hit shows earn. But Trey Parker and Matt Stone
weren't satisfied. The creators watched as executives fought
over their baby, Skydanced with buying Paramount and
started meddling. They wanted shorter deals, lower prices,
and more control. That's when Parker and Stone
did something unprecedented. And this is why they are being

(56:47):
inducted into the Spontaneity Goats doing
Goat Shit list. They hired the most aggressive lawyers in Hollywood,
Stuart Leiner and Brian Friedman. They prepared a nuclear
option. They sued both Paramount and Skydance,
and they publicly shamed them for sabotaging negotiations.

(57:07):
The message was very clear, respect us or
lose everything. And that power move worked.
The executives panicked. They delayed South Park's season
27 premiere. Comic Con was days away. Parker and
Stone would have a global stage to air the grief. And
suddenly everyone wanted to make a deal. So they stuck to their

(57:29):
guns, right? They didn't let the big money bag, the biggest money
bag any TV show has ever seen. They didn't let that sway them.
Because what's it about? What I always harp on. Ownership, creative
control, keep your ip. So continuing here.
And the creators weren't done flexing. They demanded something no TV
creator had achieved. Not just money, not just

(57:51):
episodes. They wanted nearly 50% of all
streaming revenue through their joint venture. So these are the
details of the final deal. 1.5 billion
with a B over five years. $300 million
annually, 50 new episodes, global
streaming rights. And that revenue share of that,

(58:13):
that 50% revenue share, that could literally double
all those numbers that I just mentioned. And because of that,
I'm officially inducting Matt Stone and Trey Parker
into the Spun Today Goats Doing Goat Shit list.
And that, folks, was episode 288 of the Spot Today

(58:34):
podcast. Thank you very much for taking the time to
listen. I appreciate each and every one of you and ask that you stick around
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(01:03:33):
I love you Aiden. I love you Daddy.
I love you Grayson.