#291 – Crafting Horror and Humanity: Behind the Scenes with The Night Visitor’s Blu Topalli and Peter Stass - Spun Today with Tony Ortiz

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
As far as storytelling in general, you know, comedy
and horror, I think have something in common
in that they both rely on a kind of a
cathartic response. They both
utilize surprise, you know, a bit of a shock inside of the shock of the
scream or the shock of the laugh. They

(00:22):
do seem to have a relationship comedy and har Rich I don't fully understand,
but I know that I'm not the first person that
works in both arenas. The guy who wrote the Exorcist, William
Peter Blatty, had written only comedy before he did the
Exorcist.

(00:56):
What's up folks? What's going on? Welcome to the Spun Today Podcast, the
only podcast that is anchored in writing but unlimited in scope.
I'm your host, Tony Ortiz, and I appreciate you listening. This is episode
291 of the Spun Today podcast and in this episode
I have a question for you. What happens when two seasoned
storytellers come together to craft horror that

(01:19):
doesn't just scare, but reveals the truth
about who we are? In this episode, I sit down with Blareem
Topali, AKA Blue, and Peter Stass,
the duo behind the upcoming horror podcast the
Night Visitor. Between them, they've worked across film,
television, writing and teaching. Blue has worn so

(01:42):
many hats from ghostwriting for tv, which by the way,
I regret not asking more about because one of the
shows she worked on was Dawson's Creek and Fun Fact About Me,
I used to love that show and I actually used to watch
it with pen and paper and write down like all the cool big words. They
would say that I had no idea what they meant and

(02:04):
would look them up in the dictionary to try to use them and seem smart
and sound like they did on the show. She also worked VFX for
James Cameron on Titanic. Yes, that Titanic.
And also had development roles on films like My Big Fat Greek
Wedding, which we did get into in this episode. Her current work
digs into gothic themes and psychological horror.

(02:27):
Peter started with the intention of becoming a
comic book illustrator and artist here in New York and he
discovered a love for film. He went on to co write features
like Relative strangers starring Danny DeVito and Kathy Bates,
and he's also taught screenwriting at Gotham Writers Workshop.
He's also directed award winning shorts. He has a knack for

(02:50):
exploring that fine line between humor and horror, some of which we
touch on in this episode. And as I mentioned, together
they've teamed up to create a new horror podcast
called the Night Visitor. It's really immersive. I had the pleasure of
getting a sneak preview of it. The first episode is going to air
October 14, 2025 and

(03:12):
it's really immersive, it's atmospheric, and it leans into the
tradition of classic radio dramas while pushing the boundaries
of modern day sound design. In this episode we dive
into their creative process, what it really means to
collaborate without ego, and how horror can be
used not just to scare, but to reveal truths

(03:34):
about humanity itself. You're in for a real treat folks, so
definitely stick around for all that good stuff. But first I wanted to tell you
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(03:56):
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(04:18):
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(04:38):
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(05:01):
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(05:23):
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today.com books.
Spun today listeners. Today I am joined by two incredible

(05:46):
storytellers, Blue Topali and Peter Stasse.
Blue's known for gothic character explorations
and dark humor and immersive horror, while Peter's written award
winning Comedies and screenplays and taught screenwriting here in New York City.
Together, they're working on a brand new horror podcast, the Night
Visitor. And today we're diving into their creative

(06:08):
process, their experiences, philosophies on writing and
creativity, as well as what we can expect. Blue and
Peter, welcome to the show. Hi. Thank you.
Thank you. Great to have you guys. And I had the
pleasure of a sneak peek of episode one of the Night
Visitor, which will be released on October 14th, if I'm not

(06:31):
mistaken. And without giving
anything away, I just wanted to say kudos to you both for how
immersive it was. I thought the sound effects really pulled me in
as well as the story and the voice acting was impeccable. So
all of which we can get into a little bit later. But I just want
to say great job to you guys on that. Thank you. Thank

(06:52):
you so much. No problem. And since it's your first time on the show,
I wanted to start at the beginning. And Blue, we can begin with you.
You're originally from Boston and now reside on the west Coast. Tell
us a bit about growing up and how you eventually wound up making the trek
out there to the west. Yeah, I grew up in a
little suburb outside of Austin called Newton. And

(07:16):
the movie theater was really big for us in the 70s and
80s when I was growing up. And I had two older
brothers who were super into sci
fi and comic books, and I was the youngest and
the only girl and kind of grew up kind of a little
bit of a tomboy, I think, just having two older brothers and that influence.

(07:39):
And so we went to the movie theater weekly. That was like a huge escape
for me. And. And then on Saturday mornings, you know,
we get up really early and watch the Creature Devil Future
on Saturday mornings. And pretty much like all Saturday was dedicated to
horror and sci fi for. For us growing up. And basically
when I got older, it wasn't really until I got out of high school

(08:02):
that my. My oldest brother took me to the side and said, hey, listen, you
know, we come from an immigrant family and it's a lot of
pressure to do a lot of different things, you know,
quote, unquote, responsible things. But he said, you know, I really think you
have an amazing eye and you should maybe take a film
class or something or photography or something. And I fell in love

(08:24):
with film and I went to film school at Boston University
and ended up coming out to LA just
after college. I kind of graduated, tried to graduate early and just get out here
as fast as I could and worked for Places like Industrial Light and
Magic and Sony Image Works that got into visual effects and,
and worked for a couple big directors in that

(08:47):
realm. And I worked in development. I became a development executive
and worked on a lot of what, what we would say. I would
say remakes, adaptations. And
I, I met Peter at that time. I don't even remember Peter, how
long ago it was about 20 couple decades. Yeah,
it's been. It's been a while. And I would say, like, the

(09:10):
films that really influenced me growing up
were. The thing was very influential. I remember
that being, you know, one of my top
films growing up. And I would say, like, probably
really top, top. Alien. Alien was really influential
for me. Really, these sort of cosmic,

(09:32):
really the cosmic horror elements of it. And,
and you know, I think for me, sci fi and fantasy has always
been really big and comic books have been an influence for me.
Probably more so for you, Peter, I'd say, but I guess I'm going to
pass it on to Peter. Okay. Yeah, so that's kind of where
I, where I'm at. Thanks for sharing. Blue. And not to, not to cut

(09:55):
things off or go off on the tangent, but real quick, just with the Alien
movie tie in and Peter, feel free to incorporate this in
your background as well. You mentioned the Alien movie and I saw, Peter, that
you are an illustrator as well. Yeah, I'm an
illustrator. I was originally going to be a comic book artist and
I went to the High School of Art Design here in New York with the

(10:16):
intention of doing that. And it was there that I discovered film. You could
major in film. You know, you have that option, you can major in illustration.
But I was a lonely teenager and I. The idea of myself sitting
behind a drawing board for the rest of my life, I actually had a moment,
a real moment, like an epiphany where you picture something in your head.
And I pictured myself behind a drawing, a desk, you know, a

(10:38):
drawing table. And I just went, I don't want to do that. I don't want
to be sitting in a room by myself the rest of my life. And I
thought, what's the most collaborative? And it was film. But I also
did always have a love for film. I should mention as well. In fact, a
lot of what Blarima was saying echoes with me. You know,
watching Creature Features as a child growing up at the 7,

(10:58):
we're the same age. At night, it was the color
films, the British horror movies that were in color.
And then during the day it was the black and white, the. The Creature Features,
the Universal monster Movies, Dracula, Frankenstein, all those guys.
And as a kid also, I read the. These two
magazines and anyone my age will recognize these names. Starlog and

(11:21):
Fangoria. Okay, so before the Internet,
Starlog took you into the background of the making of science fiction
movies, and Fangoria was horror. And they
would interview the people who were doing the special effects. They would do features on
all the upcoming films. So there's always a love for
movies. And, you know, before I even really understood that I was being

(11:42):
drawn to it, I was being drawn to it and. But I also
loved visual storytelling as well when I was a boy. Also, again,
in comic books in the 70s and 80s. John Burns, the wonderful
writer and illustrator of comic books, was the king
during that time. And he was a huge influence on me, I think,
as a writer, John Burns. So that. That was a big thing also.

(12:05):
I just wanted to say Lorima is very. Being very. She's being very.
What's the word I'm looking for? Lorima has worked with some incredible
people. She's been very humble. Blarima has worked for James Cameron
on Titanic. Blurriema's writing is what brought her out to LA to work for
Lucasfilm. I mean, she's worked with some pretty. Pretty
big people and she's worked in development. So she's a writer,

(12:27):
but much, much more than that as well. Oh, you're very kind,
Peter. Thank you. Thank you very much for that.
Yeah. As for my own background, I grew up
in New York City in a housing project in Astoria in Queens.
I like. I said, I like to draw from the time I was very
young. I love to go to the movies. There was a movie theater on

(12:51):
Steinway street, as a matter of fact, that movie theater is now. That space is
now a gym. And I was just on the treadmill the other day and I
was looking out and you could still see the marquee. They still have it there.
And I was thinking, I'm in the same space right now on a treadmill
that I was in sitting and watching Ghostbusters
and Fright Night in all the movies of that era. You know, it's

(13:12):
sort of a sacred space for me. You know, I thought, how interesting if I
could have projected myself years now, one day you're going to be
sweating in this space, you know, as an adult that
you're now sitting in and watching. But it's fine.
A nice full circle moment there. Yes, yes, totally.
Yeah. So high spartan design where I decided to major in

(13:34):
film. I decided that would be the focus because it's still visual and it's
storytelling. And that was where I got
into that. I'll try to compress it and jump forward.
I did not go to film school, but I was largely sort of self taught.
And I would literally just watch a scene, pause it, and then write down what
just happened. Watch the next scene, pause it, write down what just happened. I was

(13:57):
trying to teach myself to understand the mechanisms of
it. And so jump forward. Many years later,
I wrote a screenplay of my own. And I happened to meet a guy who
was successful through a mutual friend, a guy named Greg Leanna, who
had just written Meet the Parents. And I met Greg during
that time and Greg liked my writing and he took me on as a partner.

(14:20):
And I moved to la and I met Larima
not long after I moved to la. And I found that
we were very compatible in terms of our aesthetic, terms of the sort of things
that we wanted to write about. And I was interested in
horror and Blooming was also interested in horror. And we began to
develop some work together and some stories together. Yeah, I feel. I feel like

(14:43):
Peter is like. You're like my brother from
another mother. Yeah, yeah. You know, I feel
it's almost like we're related. I mean, it really is, actually.
Yeah. It's just. It's like one of those uncanny. I don't know
if you believe in it. Karmic connections, but I believe in it. I totally. Yeah,

(15:03):
absolutely. Because. Very randomly.
But just our. Our thinking and our aesthetic and kind of the way
our brains work is so in sync.
It's like when we write something, I can't really
tell who wrote what. Like, at the end of it, I go, did. You did.
Was that your line or my. I don't even know. Like, at the end, with

(15:26):
the essence of collaboration. It's great. It's a great.
Yeah, it's fantastic. And there's no, like, between us.
I really feel like there's no. There's no. None of those ego
trips or any of that, but I think really get. Get in the way. And
I, having come from, you know, I
too came into more. I would say more

(15:47):
officially in a writing capacity as a ghostwriter. And that happened
because I worked with. I also worked with a writer. He was
working kind of this little bit of this paranormal space as well. He taught me
a lot about structure, which I have really, really
taken to heart. And I'm really appreciative of a guy
named Ozzy Cheek, who. I don't know, I think he, like, flood the country

(16:09):
anyway. Yeah. Obviously from the Appalachians He. He, like, fled the country,
I think, is what happens with him. But. But great
guy. Great guy. And taught me so much. And that was around
the time that I met you. And. Yeah, I mean,
I had been working in development and stuff. And I do feel
like what I would see when I was working in development as a

(16:31):
director of development on features, you know, I'd see different
writers come in and different. You know, sometimes writing partnerships was
much more rare. It's very difficult, the collaborative process
and finding that chemistry with somebody
is like finding a needle in a. In a haystack. And
it's. It's very difficult to maintain over a long period of time. So

(16:54):
when you find it, you hold on to it. Yeah, it is a great thing.
I also want to mention Loren worked with Diego De Laurentiis. Anybody who
grew up in the 70s knows that name. Dino De Laurentiis and his company.
I mean, so. And he sounded like.
Everything that you think about is like, Dino. You know, like
his famous quote, when delunky die, everybody could die. You know, he would actually

(17:16):
really, like, walk around the office. You know, this Tony reference to,
you know, De Laurentiis made a famous remake of King Kong in 1976.
Okay. And that was his line. When did the monkey
die? Everybody cried. Everybody cried.
I've heard that, but didn't know. Didn't know the. The exact reference, honestly.
Yeah, I did. Yeah. It's an answer to why, why, why do

(17:39):
remakes, Right? Why? Because he was the king of remakes. He was the one who
really. He was the first person to do. Really do a remake. So
for. For the question that he would pose was, you know,
why do you think people respond to this film so much? Like,
what is it about this film, King Kong that people respond to? And that was
his response. Summed it

(18:02):
up so. So concisely and accurately. Yeah, one line. He was
good like that. Yeah, he was. He had some really. I mean, he had
some things that he said when I worked with him that were just.
They were really out of another era. You know, you really understood that
as a producer. He was. He was, at one point, anyway,
he was a star maker. He could really pick up the phone

(18:25):
and call anybody and. And honestly, he could get on
a planet. As he said, I get on the plane, I go to New York,
I go to the burlesque, so I make a star. I mean, he would say
things like, to speak them into existence like that. And I'm
like, yeah, I'm like, it's. It's 2008 okay.
All right. Sounded like it was

(18:45):
1966. He's an old school. He was an
old school guy. Yeah. I mean there was good and bad with that too, but
yeah, I did have to minute. But you know, Peter, you're being very,
very humble as well, I have to say. I mean, Peter is.
Is a multi talented sort
of. I think you're kind of polynomic in your own. Well, we'll say across

(19:08):
the arts. Anyway, I think you are kind of a. You have so many
different talents, talents that you bring to it. And. And I also
love that you remember all the names of all the
creators and people and everybody. Because I have name blame this.
This is part of my way my brain wiring works is I cannot
remember my own name. But this is

(19:30):
why I think everybody now knows me as Blue. But Peter, you know me so
long that you call me Larima, which is my first
name. But yeah, speaking to Peter's creativity,
I just wanted to tie in with the dimension of the Alien movie. Your
drawing Peter on Sigourney Weaver was amazing. Which
I'll. I'll link to in the episode Notes to your Instagram for both of you.

(19:53):
Just for folks. I just thought it was. It was amazing. Thank you. I
do like to draw and I'm learning to paint at the Art Students League.
I've just been learning to, you know, the past 20 years have been dabbling in
painting. Problem is, you have to keep going consistently.
Right, right. With anything. Right. Any. Any creative ever. Blue.
Before we move off of this, I actually wanted to ask you a question. I'd

(20:15):
be remiss if I didn't ask. Related to your previous works,
I read that you worked on My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which
is one of my wife's favorite movies, and you were the director of
development for that feature. So I just wanted to ask if you could tell us
a bit about that experience in that role. Well, actually, I'll be honest with
you. I came into that experience when the film had been

(20:37):
shot and they didn't know what to do with it. It was sitting on
a shelf for a really long time. They could
not get the film. They couldn't sell this film into
a theater and really were trying to figure out
what to do with the film, you know, or are they just gonna go. They
almost went straight to video with that film, which would have just

(21:00):
been. Can you imagine if this film just went into
anonymity as a. As a straight to video? It
was kind of an unusual time because people
didn't self release films 4
walling, meaning that go out and rent the theaters out and
distribute the feature yourself. And so

(21:22):
they were just trying to find out different ways to do things. So one of
the things that there were very few people who worked at Gold Circle Films, where
I worked at the time, there were five, basically
five executives, and that was it. And we would just sit
in the office of these weekly meetings going through our entire, you
know, roster of unreleased films at that time. And

(21:44):
we went and tested my big Factory Wedding. And it had
this unbelievably high testing
number. It got like a 95, which is unheard of, out in. I
think it was in Calabasas that we tested it. And
so the idea was like, well, we can go straight to video.
We can do a European release with no North American release. And the reason why

(22:06):
was because, to be honest with you, they
were saying, oh, we don't know how we're going to sell Neil Vardalis. And who's
this other guy? He's kind of like, he used to be on Northern Exposure. You
really know him anymore. We can't sell this film in North America.
And yet, to really make that release work,
you needed a North American release at that time. So it

(22:29):
was going to be straight to video. Otherwise. So what?
What? Yeah, so what we. We kind of
went through were a number of scenarios, and one of them was really
about sort of modeling what could it look like if we. If we
did our own theatrical release and rented out the
theaters. So that became part of my job, I think, you

(22:51):
know, really, at that time, I was focused on remakes and
adaptations because of my previous writing work,
and which is ultimately why I ended up working with Dino De Laurentiis later
in development. But at that time, because they
had, like, 19 films sitting on a shelf, they were really,
really much more focused on, like, how do we. What do we do for a

(23:13):
distribution strategy? Right now I can get into so many details
about why that happened and get into what you do and
don't want to do. When you're up brand new company with lots
of money, you want to first go out and get a distribution
deal with a studio at that time, but that's not what they
did. So they ended up with all these films like that sitting on a shelf.

(23:36):
And so we just said, we've got to take this film and let's release
it. And so part of my job was to help model that
out and see where we would release, what that release might look like.
We were looking at cities like New York City, Chicago, Boston, where
there were big Greek communities and saying, well, let's just release it to
like release it to 100 theaters and just see how it does.

(23:59):
And that's all it took. And it was just the timing. It was post 911
people were very kind of depressed. There was really a
vacuum in the market and people were just dying for comedy at the time.
They wanted to laugh. And we released it that summer after 9
11, you know, before the anniversary, of course of the first
anniversary of 9 11. And people just ate it up. There wasn't anything

(24:21):
like it that summer that was being released. Yeah. And it wound up.
It wound up going on to being the large, if I'm not mistaken, the largest
grossing rom com in history. Yes. It cost
us 2.6 million to
make. 2.6 million to make it. And it cost
probably that much to market it out or whatever as

(24:44):
it usually does. It made $286 million.
Wow. Initially. So it made 100x. It's just.
It's just like winning the lottery or something. It doesn't, you know, I can't even
take credit for that. So that's an amazing
story from a creative perspective of sticking to your guns, going with your gut,
knowing that it's good and wanting to get it out the way it deserves to

(25:06):
be out. What do you think? Going with a creator. Right. Who
he had done that as a one woman show Features where my name blindness comes
in. Oh my God. Tom Hanks's wife Play tone.
Rita Wilson. Rita Wilson. Right. Rita Wilson. Thank you. I'm so
sorry. Oh, Rita. I'm sorry. Rita Wilson, you
know, had seen it and Rita Wolfgang is, you know, she sleep by

(25:28):
background and just loved the story and wanted to support
this creator. And I think we
need to do more of that. You know, right now we're really stuck in this
sort of glut of material that has to be based
on other material or has to have it has to have something
attached to it to get made. I get it from a

(25:50):
marketing perspective because I have to work in that realm too. But
yeah, I understand the mechanics of it. But at the same time,
it leaves so much on the table in terms of creatives. There are
just so many great stories, original stories out there.
And I do think that the. The pendulum, I hope will swing
at some point back to that rather than trying to regurgitate

(26:13):
everything all the time. Absolutely. I couldn't agree
more with that. There has to be a balance ultimately, right. Between the financial
realities of a film, but also with the leaning more so
on the creative side, in my opinion. I mean, look what like Ryan
Coogler's Sinners did and films like that, that kind of give
hope to that type of, you know, moving a little bit more away

(26:35):
from the cookie cutter, you know, has to be based on previous IP
type of stories, which they're. There's still a place for. Well, and then
you. Yeah. You know, then you get into this game
which people will play, which is we have to
have a base on something. So, you know, maybe you write the
scripts and then you write the book and then you say, oh, the book was

(26:56):
first. I mean, I've been in that. I won't get into it, but I've been
in that situation where, you know, things like that have
happened and I'm like, oh, okay. So it just becomes a
game, you know, and. And at the end of the day,
the work is the work and, you know, the quality of the work, you
know, that. That hopefully, you know, is what

(27:18):
ultimately rises to the top for people. But. But, you know, it's a film
business. Right, we understand there's the business side of it. And. But
it's definitely evolved over the years. It's evolved in these ways that are. I
think it's what in some ways is what is hurting the
film business right now in Los Angeles, where we're seeing the film
business get really hammered here. And I think part of it

(27:40):
is this kind of lack of respect for the creative.
Agreed. Definitely couldn't agree more. And Peter, I wanted to bring you in. I wanted
to ask you about Kathy Bates. She's amazing. I
love her. Misery, the Blindside, Titanic, which you mentioned the
Blue worked on as well. How was it to co
write Relative Strangers, a screenplay that you wrote which

(28:02):
starred her and Danny DeVito? It was a great
experience. I mean, it was a challenging experience to write this film
because I live in L. A and my co writer, Greg lives.
Lived now he's in Chicago, but he was living. He was in.
Did I just say I was in la? I'm in New York.
I'm in New York and Greg was in la. So we

(28:25):
were writing it back and forth. This was a long time ago now. So there
was no way for us to do live collaboration. We didn't even have Zoom.
None of that stuff existed back then. So we talk on the phone.
I would write and then I actually used to send hard
copies off to Greg. I remember I would. I would mail them.
Oh, wow. So no notes or anything like that existed.

(28:47):
None of this stuff really existed. So this is like in 2000, a little
2001, we started this process of collaborating together
on this. So it was tough. I will say this too.
I was brand new to writing. The only thing I could do, really do,
was I could be funny. I didn't know anything about structure. I didn't know
anything about anything. Greg was basically writing story, and

(29:09):
my job was to provide dialogue. Of course, I had strong opinions about
story as well, but he was sort of the senior person in the situation
because he had written parents. He was the reason that this was happening,
and he was doing me an incredible favor. I mean, this was just an incredible
thing to even be invited into the world of professional screenwriting. Also,
as you just mentioned that it was a factor. My younger brother had

(29:31):
cancer. So as my younger brother was dealing with cancer
and ultimately dying of cancer, I was having to write
this screenplay. It was very, you know, the famous quote from Dickens.
It was the best times, it was the worst of times. That's how it was
at that time in my life. The same week I was invited to work on
my first professional screenplay, my younger brother was diagnosed with cancer.

(29:54):
So sorry to hear things were coinciding. Thank you. So
there were times where I was literally have. But here's the thing,
too. I had to be with Baby there for my brother. I had to be
there. I had to be. Of course I was not going to be there. At
the same time, I couldn't drop this opportunity because I knew
that this was something that was a. I couldn't. It was a once

(30:15):
in a lifetime thing. Right. I couldn't say to Greg, thank you so much for
inviting me, but I have an illness in my family, so I can't do it.
I wasn't going to do that. So I did both at the same time. There
were times where I would literally be typing, writing the script by
my brother's bedside as he was being treated for cancer.
So it was a very intense time in my life. One of the most,

(30:37):
maybe the most intense time ever in my life. And
it was difficult to write because I disagreed with a lot of
tricky decisions. And I was having to learn
to rewrite something which I didn't know how to do. And I
felt like it was uphill the whole time. It never leveled
off the hill, never leveled. It kept. It was a steep incline

(30:59):
the whole time. And then eventually we finished it and it got to a
place where everybody was happy and the producers were happy that Greg was working
with. And we said, okay, we're fine, we're good. The script is complete.
And then I moved to la. My little brother subsequently passed away. Unfortunately,
I moved to LA for a couple of reasons.

(31:19):
One, because I felt that the film is starting to come
together and there was sort of a reason to be there. I also, to be
quite frank, because of everything that had just happened, I think I wanted to
go to a new place and look at different things and just be
completely away from the world that I had been living in. I needed to sort
of start over. Change of scenery. Yeah, change of scenery, change

(31:41):
of life. Right. And so to answer your question, yeah, it was. It was
challenging to write this screenplay.
It was difficult. It never really got easier,
but we ultimately finished it. I will say this, too. A lot of
people don't like the collaboration with studios. We made this
movie with a studio called Millennium New Image. I

(32:03):
didn't mind getting notes and incorporating them. And in fact, I
thought the notes we got from them were pretty good. And I didn't mind
sitting in the room and having the notes. To me, it was part of the
collaborative process and I actually kind of enjoyed it, to tell you the truth.
Yeah. I mean, I think that that's. I think that that's one of
the reasons why, if you're a writer,

(32:26):
I think that puts you miles and miles ahead.
Because one of the biggest problems is that people. And I know
this from being in the room as a development executive, people didn't know I
was a writer or anything, didn't know that I'd written, had things,
produced, that obviously I was a ghost writer. So it wasn't under my name,
unfortunately. But they would come in and they'd be offended, you know. Right.

(32:48):
They'd. Who was development executive, telling me what to do? And of
course, I never said anything. Wasn't. That wasn't my position to say, I
write too, you know, but it was such a
block. And a lot of times things didn't get made because
the writers just could not sit down and put their ego
aside and say, let's talk through these notes. Let's collaborate.

(33:10):
Right. Yeah. You're not a novelist. Particular form of writing, right? Yeah.
Right. Yeah, it is. It's collaborative by nature. And
so I really think in any part of the industry. And I.
I'll say this, too. That goes for, like, when you're. You know, I studied
Meisner technique at the Baron Brown studio here in Los Angeles,

(33:30):
and for two years I studied acting. And
it's the same thing. It's like, you have to be very open. Right.
You have to, like. It's like, what do we need. What's the goal here?
That we can. That we can all get around with. We all have our eye
on the prize at the end of the day. And, yeah, of course,
argue for your point of view. Have a strong

(33:52):
point of view. Have a strong aesthetic. Always
make sure that you have developed what your vision is strongly.
But also understand that you are working with
groups of people and everybody's adding a
piece to that in order to elevate the overall. In this
case, the overall feature, or maybe it's the series to make

(34:15):
sure that that is the best possible experience for the audience. The
audience that, too, is, you know, at the end of
that rainbow for me, is, how are we going to make this the best
possible? And I always say this to Peter. How do we get it to the
height of the meaning, the height of the moment?
And, you know, we. Sometimes we write something and I say, what do you think,

(34:37):
Peter? And they'll say, I think it's pretty good. And I go,
could we. Could we up this? Yeah,
I want to get it. Yeah. Why not take it to the next level?
You know, go beyond pretty good. You want it to get the most out of
it. Absolutely. And that. Yeah, I'm never.
Yeah, sorry. No, go ahead, Go ahead. And that's. That's sort of. When

(35:00):
I write with Peter, the goal is that,
you know, because we do live in two separate cities. I live in Los Angeles
and Peter lives in New York. And so often what we'll do
through our writing process is, you know, say I'll take this scene and
you take that scene, and let's get together in a few days and
talk through it. And then sometimes we'll switch or we'll give each

(35:22):
other notes. The idea is not that I go off and write on my own,
come back, and it's like, that's great. That's good enough.
Or, that's great. Let's just leave it there. It's a collaborative
process. So what I'm looking for and what he's looking for when we come back
together is I want you to, you know, not
ruthlessly, but I want you to pick it apart and

(35:44):
see what you can add to that to. To. To
elevate the piece. Right. That. What's the point of a collaboration if two
people aren't coming together to make something better than each one of them
could do separately? Yeah, absolutely.
And I just wanted to highlight a point that you both mentioned where we
kind of see the juxtaposition of the example with

(36:06):
My Big Fat Greek Wedding, which almost Went straight to
video, as you mentioned, Blue just be leaning too
much. So on the financial or, or bottom line or,
or just like the business side of show business and then
swinging the pendulum to the. The other side. You have many films and
TV shows that never get made just because the creative is like steadfast and stuck

(36:28):
in their ways and doesn't want to budge an inch. When again,
to the point we made earlier, you know, finding that the equilibrium that balances
is where we should be, especially in this medium of,
of like movie and film, where it is much more so collaborative than like,
Peter's point to, you know, writing a novel, for example. Yeah, you
really have to have. I mean, maybe we're getting philosophical, but,

(36:52):
you know, personalities. Personalities are
the thing that can get in the way,
right, of the, of the process. I mean, obviously we want to bring our
personalities to things, but when we put our personalities
above our sort of principles, I think that that's
where we, we get off the beaten path. I mean, we, we get off track

(37:15):
rather. So we always want to have like, what is, what is it that we're,
what is the true goal? For me, it's, it's really coming to
the process with my values, with my principles in
mind and, and not my ego, you know, that
my, my personality is what will get in the way of
the process if I allow it to, you know, anybody,

(37:38):
anybody will be in that position. So when I come to the
collaborative, you know, when I come to the table with Peter or with
anybody, you know, my, my, my thing is, you know, what hat
can I put on her that's going to be most valuable to the
process? And, you know, what can I bring. Let me
put my ego to the side and what can I

(37:59):
do here that's going to be about sort of the greater good
in terms of the creative process. And, and so I think Peter and
I, Peter and I do that really, really well. I think Peter, you
and I, you know, Peter is such a, he's,
you know, you're one of my favorite people, Peter. You know, you're one of
my favorite people. You're such a good person, you know,

(38:22):
and it's like, it's easy to work with somebody who's such a good
person and who's so talented and intelligent.
It's really, it's easy and it helps, you know,
me feel like, hey, I don't have to carry any burden here
alone. I'm not carrying the weight for somebody else.
Sometimes that can happen in a creative process where somebody really kind

(38:43):
of doesn't pull their weight, or they're not really bringing that much to it. And
you're sort of like, I'm pulling all the weight over here. And. And that's
never the way that I feel with Peter. I always feel like
we're both bringing everything to the process, and we have.
Each other's backs, too, and that's sort of a partnership thing. That's
awesome. I love that for you guys. And this episode is shaping up to

(39:05):
be a masterclass in collaboration. So take notes, folks.
I wanted to ask you guys a bit about your influences. So both of you
have backgrounds that blend different disciplines.
Blue with gothic, character explorations, vfx.
Peter with comedy, screenwriting, teaching. How do
those early experiences continue to shape the way that you guys approach horror

(39:28):
today? Because to me, from the outside looking in, it's kind of like a
melting pot of different lenses of creativity coming
together, which. Which is exciting, seemingly for me, from the outside
looking in. So just wanted your take on how those
experiences shape your approach today.

(39:49):
That's a big question. Well, yeah, because there are a lot of different influences.
I guess there's the influence of comic book
storytelling, which is visual. It's the combination of
word with the image. I guess I've brought that
into film writing, you know, as far
as storytelling in general. You know, comedy and

(40:11):
horror, I think have something in common in
that they both rely on a kind of a
cathartic response. They both
utilize surprise, you know, a bit of a shock. It's either the shock of the
scream or the shock of the laugh. They
do seem to have a relationship. Comedy and Harvard, I don't fully understand,

(40:33):
but I know that I'm not the first person that
works in both arenas. The guy who wrote the Exorcist, William
Peter Blatty, had written only comedy before he did the Exorcist.
Oh, wow. I didn't know that. So, yeah, he had written only comedy. He
had written, like, one of the Pink Panther movies in the 60s. There
must be some relationship that maybe I don't fully understand, but I think it has

(40:55):
to do with the visceral reaction that we have as well.
You definitely get a reaction right away. It's not
neutral. Like, the first thing that I really wrote was sketch comedy, actually.
When I first began to put material in front of an audience, it
was in through the venue of sketch comedy. And the great thing about
that is that we were going out into comedy clubs and we were getting that

(41:17):
reaction immediately. You knew right away if your work was
connecting or not, because you either get a laugh or you didn't. Well, that's it.
Right? It's that horror and comedy, these are
their reactions. They're not just genre,
right? Yeah. Yeah. Your actual. I mean, horror
actually is an actual reaction, right? You react with horror, right?

(41:40):
Yeah. And I think they are very. You. You hit the nail on the head
when you said visceral. They both have this
almost primal, visceral
reaction. And it's almost
reflexive. It's almost reflexes. And that's not,
you know, what necessarily other genres

(42:02):
bring. Right. It's. It's not that it doesn't have that immediacy
that laughter or the screen have. Right. So
I think there is something really primal about it, and I think
that's what really attracts people to it. Yeah, they're kind. They're
twins in some weird way. That's awesome. That's an
interesting blend there. And I think too, like, you know, when.

(42:25):
In terms of, like, when I was growing up, I was very
into. I mean, I didn't bring this up at all, but I was very into
poetry and Victorian literature, like Gothic
Victorian literature. And my favorite book is
Frankenstein. And actually recently, I had my daughter this past year,
she read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, so.

(42:47):
Great. And, you know, these. These.
These novels had a lot of influence on me as well. Like,
literature has had a lot of influence on me. And my
own, I will say, like, even my own personal history,
my own personal tragedies, all of those things
come into. You know, we tend to think of horror. I

(43:10):
think some people, when you say horror, they think, oh, blood, guts and gore.
And that's all it is, usually. Yeah, I hear that all the time. Yeah.
Yeah. And it's so much. Well, at least for. For, I think you and I,
Peter, it's so much deeper than that. We're really
trying to touch something very deep
inside of. Of our human sort

(43:32):
of experience that is
deeply emotional and. And sort of the inner
traumas that we. That we are dealing with in life. Those are the
things that. I think that for Peter and I. You know, Peter,
I think you can speak to this too, but this idea of we kind of
tend to go through these sort of moral or ethical questions when we're.

(43:54):
When we're writing. And I think because we're
true, we are trying to dig deep into our own psyches to understand,
you know, what is this human experience. We're doing it through
these. Through these genres of comedy and horror. That's great.
Yeah. I'm much more interested in the ideas than the blood and guts. I like
the idea that you can explore with horror. That's awesome.

(44:17):
Yeah, it's like, it's a little bit more, you know, I mean, we can get
into it later. I'm sure you'll ask us about this county, but about the piece
that we did write. And we can get a little bit more into kind of
what, what the influences are from our backgrounds that
kind of brought us to this particular story and to the
idea of even doing a podcast. I think, I think a lot of

(44:39):
that will come out in that. Yeah, absolutely. Agreed. We can
actually shift to there. And then I want to circle back to a couple other
questions that I have here. Blue. So you've described your
work as kind of a co creation with audiences
and pulling them into dark places that we hesitate
to explore. How do you balance giving audiences what they expect

(45:02):
from horror while maintaining like an element of surprise?
And we can definitely, with that, get into, as you mentioned,
the aspects of the Night Visitor.
Yeah, I think that. Wow, that's a good question. I mean, I think,
you know, for, for me, what I'm trying to do is understand

(45:23):
that I too am a fan. Right. So,
you know, I definitely want to hear the perspective of the
storyteller. You know, I think one of the things that I,
I feel maybe this is just my own generation or something, but
I do feel like, you know, there was a time where
we as filmmakers were trying to teach people how to see

(45:47):
differently, and I really still look at it that way.
So I'm. I'm definitely trying to bring my eye to it and,
and convey my point of view to the audience. But at the same time,
you know, I remember being a fan, I am an audience member
regularly. You know, I go to the movie theater by myself.

(46:08):
I love that I go in the movie theater and enjoy the experience for myself.
I love being around Strangers in the Dark and watching these films
and seeing and feeling and hearing the reactions. And so
to me, it's like, I love that feeling, that
feeling of just the excitement and the anticipation of being
in the theater and having the goosebumps rise as you're so

(46:30):
anticipating the story that, you know, you've just been
dying to see, maybe, but understanding also that sometimes you want
that experience to continue after the
film is over. So it's giving, for me
anyway, it's giving the audience enough to
really engage them while they're watching it. And then

(46:53):
when they leave the suitor, they're thinking back on it and going, wait
a second, what? Okay, this happened. And Then that happened and wait, I kind
of want to know more. Wait, what was that whole. What is that whole world
about? I want to know all the rules of that world. I want to, I
want to explore this even more. And this is where I
think the modern era has come in in such an interesting

(47:15):
way with fandoms. You know, we have given people
platforms, especially online, of course, to share out
their own fan stories or share out, you know, their own
perspectives on what happened and really connect with other
fans. So I guess I would go there. I don't know if that
answers your question, but to me that is almost

(47:36):
equally as vital as the experience,
you know, of watching a film. Right. It's equally vital
to have that fandom that continues on where people can continue to
explore and even possibly co create. Right. In that, in that
world that you've created for them. Absolutely. So we're making the
rules, but we're letting people say, okay, well now we know

(48:00):
what the four walls of this world are and now
we get to play inside of it, you know, and let them have that as
a sandbox. Absolutely. There's a, there's a quote that I'm
going to butcher that, that reminds me of, which is
something to the, the effect of when you create
something or like for me, for example, with like my, my writing

(48:21):
with books, you three things are created. Your, Your
creation and then the, the reader's
interpretation of your creation and then
the, like, the collaboration of both. Like when there's
interaction around that. That creation. I would say. And
I'll say another thing. Go ahead. Sorry, go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead. Well,

(48:44):
just, just was going to say. The other thing that I will say as well
is that when we go back to that
whole conversation about adaptations and remakes and things being
based on other things, which I worked in that realm for a long time.
You know, I've had people come to me. I hate adaptations. They're never as good
as the book. I hate it when they do written remakes. Every

(49:06):
single person who has read a book has
a different version of that book. They have recreated that book in
their mind. They've recreated the characters. They know what they think they
look like. So when you're casting it, they say, oh, that's not how I imagined
it, or oh, that's exactly who I thought I imagined. In that role,
every single person gets to co author that creative

(49:28):
piece with you. And whether it's a film or a book or
whatever it is. Right. Whatever type of media it might be. So
this idea that you know, adaptations or remakes or anything
is bad. I kind of. I want to be careful and
not, you know, I'm going to retract a little bit of what I said previously,
just to say those still have a place in the world. We still

(49:51):
need to tell these stories, maybe even retell these stories
sometimes. But make no mistake, every time somebody sits in the movie
theater with your movie, there's a different movie playing in their minds,
in each person's mind also. In a way where
we've been retelling the same story throughout time to some degree.
If you go back, back, back, way back, you know what I mean? To the

(50:12):
original story, the original myths in some fashion.
We've been sort of retelling the same things, you know. Absolutely.
Just been kind of all the way. Back to Sumeria, you know.
And I wanted to add this, too, to answer my take
on your question there about how do you balance your point of view with what
the audience expects. I would also say this. You

(50:35):
have to sort of trust yourself, too. You have to trust that,
you know, you're. You're not so far
off, you know, your. Your tastes are
going to be not so far off from other people that they won't be able
to understand it. I remember I was watching the. It was like the audio
commentary on Young Frankenstein, and Mel Brooks was

(50:58):
saying this, which I thought was interesting. He said, when I
make a movie, I'm the audience. The only audience I know is me. It's the
only audience I understand. So I'm gonna assume that I'm not
so different from the rest of the world that they're not gonna get this.
You know, I kind of like that. I like that as well.
You have to trust the audience. Yeah. You really have to trust the

(51:20):
audience. Right. I mean, you go through that when we're writing sometimes where it's
like, let's not overwrite this. Let's trust that our audience can
understand what we're trying to convey. Yeah, right. Give it. Give your
audience credit. And. And you are an audience member
yourself at the end of the day, right? You're. You're technically. You're creating something that
you haven't seen and that you want to make exist. So, yeah, what

(51:43):
would I like? What would I accept? What would excite me? You know,
Exactly. Peter, I wanted to ask you. You've emphasized the
grounding the like fantastical in reality and making
the incredible seem credible. So I wanted to ask you. I love it,
right. I wanted to ask you, what techniques do you use in your Writing
or dialogue or structuring of scenes to create that

(52:05):
believability. Because one thing circling back to the Night Visitor
is how the fantasy
aspects of. Of the horror are really grounded by the historical elements
of it. Well, I credit Blurriema for much of that
historical richness. But yeah,
I think that basically create a believable

(52:26):
universe and then have weird things start happening,
essentially, right? So, like, remember, if you remember the setup to
Poltergeist, right, the old poltergeist in 1982, what was so brilliant
about that movie is at first we established a family that we
absolutely believe in, it's recognizable, we
believe in it. And then start having weird things happen

(52:49):
so that it can feel real to us. You know, we can really experience
it. And I guess in creating it, I would just ask myself, well, how would
I respond if something really crazy happened? You know, because
the worst thing in a film is where you see people reacting,
almost taking weird things for granted, where it's like crazy things are
happening, but they're not reacting realistically to

(53:11):
it. I feel if you want to bring the audience into it, to make it
an emotional experience, they've got to react like human
beings, right? Absolutely. But I would say
yes, first you lay the groundwork of reality and then you slowly start to bring
the weird stuff. Awesome. I like that. Now,
both of you have worked in, as we've discussed in film tv,

(53:32):
and now we're turning to audio. What excites you
most about the horror storytelling in this medium of
podcasting, which is, which is largely audio based.
And just from a technical perspective, if I can add to that question,
do you guys like, storyboard sound like
similar to how in film visuals are storyboarded or

(53:54):
how does that piece of the collaboration work? Well,
I can say one thing to the first part, which
is one, I think, Peter,
actually you can probably speak to radio, radio shows, which I
think you even more than I.
I would say expanded into that a little bit earlier than

(54:16):
me. I mean, I think you can talk to that a little bit more. But
I think for me, what I saw was
that podcasts really had a
huge explosion out in the market. And
I started also listening to a lot of audiobooks. And
I was like, when are they going to do some dramatic readings of these

(54:38):
audiobooks? And they started doing these kind of like minorly
dramatic readings. And I was like, this
could be so much more rich. You know, this could be such
a rich tapestry sound. If you wanted to,
if you wanted to invest in the platform
that way, you could. And I

(55:01):
Heard maybe, like, a few podcasts out there
that had tried to do some more realistic
soundscapes. And I just felt that one of
the things I do, and I should mention this, is that I. I also have
a technical side to my career, and I
have consulted for a long time in the area of sort of future technologies

(55:22):
and platforms. So. And that's a whole other problem of my
life and a whole other story. But. But because of that,
I'm. I'm used to predicting future trends. So when I
was looking out at podcast, I really saw
a kind of potential second sort
of explosion of narrative pieces that

(55:45):
could be put out as really rich,
immersive entertainment. Right. So
a couple years ago, I was talking to Peter, and I think it
was a couple of summers ago, you had released your. The
other film that you wrote with Greg, help you love.
And after that, you. You got in touch with me and again

(56:07):
and said, you know, I mean, you could tell that story, but it was like,
hey, hey, I really want to write with you again, and let's
write something together. And I was like, here, we've written so much stuff. Let's just.
Just, let's get something out that we'd already written in love,
and let's do it as an audio piece. And I think at first, it was
a little bit of a hard sell with you. You were like,

(56:30):
okay. I don't know. It took a minute to
get you kind of, like, into it. I want to say it was, like,
maybe a good six months before it was like, okay, we're actually gonna
try to do this. Probably hemming on it,
but. But I. I somehow I. I think we got there together
finally. I think it was pretty much like six months or so.

(56:53):
And, you know, so a couple years ago, I really felt like this trend would
be coming, and I. I do see it growing. I do. But I think
you can add a lot to this. Yeah. Podcast is huge.
Yeah. Oh, podcast. I think he said our cast
podcast is huge. Yep. I'm definitely. I'm definitely a fan.
Yeah. Well, podcasting is interview, right? Like. Like what you're doing,

(57:14):
Tony, on podcasts. You know, this is.
This is kind of where podcasts are biggest. Right. In this interview
space. Right. But I just see so much, you know, more.
Right. I see more for it. I see more opportunities
there that can be explored creatively,
and I hope that people will listen to what we've done and be

(57:37):
inspired and decide to do their own, you know, that would be great.
Absolutely. There's definitely room for much more of
That. I agree. I agree with you there, Blue. There was actually a podcast that
I wanted to. No, go ahead. No, no, I just wanted to make sure. Peter,
also. You know, Peter, I think you had a radio. You did have a live
radio show. So I just wanted to mention that.

(58:00):
Well, yeah, I mean, what I was going to say, you know, what
inspired us particularly to create our audio drama? I
mentioned that I had written a film with Greg Leanna,
who I mentioned earlier, called Puppy Love. I'm
hesitating because I think it was really called puppyhood in the 19th century.
So we wrote this movie for Buzzfeed Features.

(58:22):
And I think I felt a bit inspired, you know, having
gotten hired for another feature. But at the
same time it made me look back at my own work, the work that I
actually cared the most about, these stories that I had written with Lorima.
And it made me think, you know, I really, really, really want to tell my
own stories, you know, because I didn't want to spend the rest of my life

(58:44):
writing stories for other people that were just jobs. I mean, I'm proud
of Puppy Love, but it was a job I wanted to really.
So many of our own stories and these. And I had written these. I had
written these great horror stories together. So we decided, yeah, let's
take one of them and find some way to tell the story. And
rather than do a short film, you know, we thought

(59:06):
about. We came. Arrived at this idea of the audio drama and
we thought, wouldn't it we could be much more affordable and we could do it
with sound. And actually having now created it, I think
it's great. I mean, if I may say so myself, as far as, you
know, creating this world of horror through sound, which is so
immersive and it allows the audience to. It really engages

(59:28):
with their imagination, perhaps even in a different way than a film would do
because it is just sound. And so you can really conjure up the
image of yourself. I think it's very powerful. I mean, I'm so
proud of what we wanted to piece of art I've ever made.
Yeah, I mean, that. That you've said before and I mean, that's like a
testament to the platform itself. I mean, it's just that

(59:53):
it was so above and beyond our expectations.
I think when we started this, how far
we could take it, just how far we could take the sound.
And really on a very, very modest budget, what we could
do was just immense and, you know, a lot of horror.
I mean, obviously we can talk about just sound

(01:00:15):
in the genre of Horror. You could have an entire. Could
probably have an entire series on that. But I really feel
like we tapped into something because,
you know, you can basically shut your eyes and.
And visualize. It feels like you. You're watching. Yeah,
it's like, you know, it's like a movie playing, but you

(01:00:38):
shut your eyes and you just got this really, really rich soundtrack going.
You're like, wow, you know, I feel like you're there, right? Yeah, you can.
So. And there's something almost. Yeah, it's almost. There's. And there's
more opportunities, actually, in a way for. I
mean, it did scare. Because there's so much that depends on
these sounds and sound effects. You know, you're basically

(01:01:01):
going in blind when you're. When you're. When you're listening to it. So
some moments actually, to me, have more shock value, but
I digress. Anyway, Peter. I wanted to also mention, though, that
I think Peter's being humble too. You know, Peter has
probably a. I'm going to say, Peter, that I think
you have a bigger, even a bigger appreciation for old radio

(01:01:24):
dramas as well. I think you produced. Yeah. And
you produced a piece that was kind of a radio show at one point, so.
Yes, I did. You had, in a way, more previous experience. You're reminding me. I
forgot that I had done that. Oh, that's right. I did. I
did do that. Yes, I did. I did. Remembering each
other's, you know, and so having that experience of putting on a live

(01:01:46):
radio show, I mean, that's something that you had already. You'd already done.
And I done this with a feature. Oh, that's awesome.
What was the name of that one, Peter? The horror comedy is called Ackerman and
Associates Meet Dracula. It's about realtors who end up selling a
home to Dracula. He's moved to la and it's about real
estate and it's about the wheeler dealer

(01:02:08):
nature of that and the trouble that these two guys sort of get themselves
into. So hard comedy, obviously. But yeah,
that's a feature that I've written as well. Yeah. What you guys created with the
Night Visitor. I couldn't agree more. Within the podcast
medium, it's great. It is lacking in the space and
it also serves as a proof of concept as well, because it

(01:02:30):
doesn't necessarily have to be there. It could also
evolve into other mediums from there. And I wanted
to mention to you guys a podcast kind of within that. That,
like, theater of the mind type of historical fiction
podcast called Bronzeville that I loved. It
was. It was set in Chicago, 1940s.

(01:02:53):
It was like two, like, rival families
that were kind of like the underbelly of, like, running numbers and liquor and.
And. And. And, like, speakeasy spots and stuff like that.
Within there, they had Laurence Tate was one of the voice actors, Laurence
Fishburne. And it did really well and only
did two seasons, which I was disappointed about because I think they

(01:03:16):
got, like, a television deal from that, which, honestly, I haven't
seen come out yet. Obviously, those things take time, but. Yeah,
that's just. Just a testament to how one thing could evolve
into something else, you know, whether intended or unintended.
Yeah, I have to. I'll have to look for that. I wasn't aware of that.
Yeah. You know, there was another thing I wanted to mention.

(01:03:39):
Sorry. Just to backtrack just a tiny bit. One of the
values, I think, of audio drama in terms of a horror
piece, you know, growing up for blurima and I in our
generation. I'm not sure how old you are, Tony, but, you know.
Okay. A little bit younger than us. You know, in the old days,
you didn't see the monster that much. You didn't see him

(01:04:01):
in broad daylight. They sort of hid the monster, and you sort of got
him little by little, and maybe by the end, you finally. The monster is revealed,
like in the original Alien. Right. And there's so much shadow. Yeah.
And in Jaws, for example, there's a power, I think,
to not showing the audience everything. You want to show them just enough,
but I think you want it. You want to leave space for them to meet

(01:04:23):
you halfway, because their imagination is going to be so
much more intense than what you can actually show them. And I wish there were
more of that now, because now we have the technology to literally just show
them everything. We could show them the whole monster from front to back,
from beginning to end. But there's a value, I think, in
sort of holding back and letting it little by little.

(01:04:45):
You know what I mean? Absolutely. I think there's a lot of power.
You know what's crazy, Peter? I went to
Universal City Walk the other day to go watch
a movie with my daughter. And we're passing by
the 50th anniversary jaws,
you know, poster which is. Which is playing up there now.

(01:05:08):
And I looked and it said that Jaws was
pg. I can't believe that movie. You
see a man get eaten by a shark.
No, I can't believe you just watched it again this summer. We just watched it.
You see Quint get eaten alive. How did that get a pg?
I Don't know. I'm like, they, they put it out, it said pg. And I

(01:05:32):
was like, no, this is, something's wrong there. This cannot possibly be
pg. I know. Remember? I remember
we would be frightened by commercials sometimes. Remember like the
Jaws commercial. Yeah. Just by itself was like, oh my
God, don't look. You know, it was terrifying. And
there were some films like that where even the trailers were like, oh,

(01:05:53):
carry actual Carrie. They would show Carrie. So we're going back to
1976. You'd see Carrie when she gets the blood dumped on her.
And I think they would only show the ads after a certain time. But I
remember if I had the misfortune being up at that time and I looked at
it, I was like, okay, you just destroyed my life.
I don't even know how to live in this world anymore. But I've just seen.

(01:06:17):
Oh like now it's just like you could turn the TV on and it's just
like, it's just like sheets of blood everywhere. It's amazing to me what
kids are exposed to now versus when we were kids. Like, I mean, I
had a friend who fainted. She fainted
because she watched somebody on TV get like stabbed. It
wasn't even bloody, you know, it was just like this action of it and she

(01:06:39):
like passed out. She's like, oh, you know, this is, this
was what was frightening for us because we just weren't expecting exposed the way that
we are now. So like it. To me it was hilarious that we saw the
PG thing on the. I mean, I mean,
Bambi is pg. You know what I mean? Like, like, you know, kids movies
are pg.

(01:07:02):
Since you guys, I have a couple questions left for you guys and I just
want to say I really appreciate you both. No, no, no, no worries at all.
I'm actually about to go on a tangent myself, so based on something you said,
I just wanted to thank you guys for taking the time and coming on the
show. It's been, been great so far. Thank you. Thank you. Speaking
of Carrie, have you guys read Stephen King's own writing

(01:07:23):
memoir? And I loved it. Same, same. And I've told this story
so much on the podcast. So for folks that listening that have heard it
before, apologies, but. But I think it's a great one. But it's just
the story around how Carrie came to be where, where
he, Stephen King wrote a draft of it and
wound up like crumpling it up and throwing it in this wastebasket.

(01:07:46):
And he lived like in a two way trailer or something like that with his
wife at the time, and his wife was just cleaning up
one day and took it out of the trash and read it and
told him, hey, I like this story that you wrote. You should,
you know, flesh it out. You know, actually write it. No, not throw it away.
And he was, at the time, you know, living in a trailer. I think he

(01:08:07):
was, like a substitute teacher and, you know, before Stephen King became
Stephen King. And listening, listen, wise man
listened to his wife's advice and wound up writing it. And
that's the story that, you know, fast forwarding a bit. He
winds up getting a call from his agent or manager saying
that it was optioned for something like 400 grand or like, something

(01:08:30):
like that. Yeah. And the rest is history. But
he supposedly sort of collapsed. He supposedly, like, collapsed
against the wall when he heard the amount. Right. This is living on, like,
nothing. He couldn't even imagine that much money. Exactly. And
if I remember correctly, it was like. Like Mother's Day or his
wife's birthday or some. Yeah, some holiday. And, like, all the

(01:08:52):
stores were closed, but he was, like, so excited. And his wife was
visiting her mother, if I'm not mistaken. So he just went out to
the only place that you could find open and, like, went to a pharmacy just
to buy her something, like, as, like, a gift. And. Yeah,
I just think that's a great story. It's a great book on writing
Stephen King. Yes. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. I wanted

(01:09:14):
to ask you guys, I've heard that horror works
best when it's something about real fears.
So, like, what truths or, like, anxieties are you guys trying to
surface in in this podcast? Whether it be around,
like, politics or family dynamics, technology or. Or
otherwise. Peter, I don't know if

(01:09:37):
you want to take this first or do you want me to? I think you
have something to say, but I. I can add to it, or do you want
me to take it? I would just say for this. Well, I would
say if you see how we are, we're like, wait, there's two chipmunks in the
car. That there is a After you. No after you. So I
think for this first piece, we wrote this a long time

(01:09:58):
ago. Actually, I won't even say how long ago it was because it's
almost embarrassing how long ago it was. When we started writing
this, we adapted this piece for
podcasts, and now we've adapted it again, Peter,
because we've written a screenplay from this now, so
for feature. Awesome screenplay. So this

(01:10:20):
has come in three different versions now. And really, what's
come out of it. I mean, I can at least speak to the part. For
me, this particular podcast episode
takes place in the Accursed Mountains,
which is a real place. The Accursed Mountains of
Albania at the end of World War II.

(01:10:42):
And Albanian. Yeah, yeah,
I'm half Albanian. I'm half Turkish. So the
political conversations around my dinner table when I was growing up were really interesting.
But basically, you know, my dad was obsessed with World War
II because he was a very small boy when World

(01:11:02):
War II began. He was 7 years old. And his first
memories of like even seeing an airplane were when the Italians
were invading. So. So those are his initial memories.
And Nazis and all of that stuff. He was very obsessed. At that time
period. My family had interactions with
Nazis, very scary. So that as I was

(01:11:24):
growing up and I had an older father, so as I was growing up, unlike
my peers, I had a parent that had lived through World War
II and was still really haunted by it. And
there were some sort of, I would say there was little
survivor's guilt from that time period, especially as
Albania became, you know, then Communist and then he escaped

(01:11:47):
from communist Albania. And there's a lot of guilt around that, a lot of
obsession over how World War II was really a turning point.
So it does have a family tie for me. And an
exploration of some of these themes about guilt and faith
come into it. And really, really sort of the
ethical questions around warfare were really,

(01:12:10):
really of interest to me in particular. And so
as. As Peter, as you alluded to earlier, you know, I'm
kind of. I'm kind of a history nut. So I
tried as much as I could at least to. And you
know, with Peter, make sure that the piece was
historically as accurate as it could possibly be. And

(01:12:33):
what I think we did was we really explored World War II
from the perspective of German soldiers
and really tried to tell. To give kind of a
different view on the German
soldier from these six different perspectives of these
six different soldiers. Really give a much more three

(01:12:55):
dimensional view of it. Because what I think of when
I think of today, when I think of what's going on in the world today,
I think that people look at World War II and think right now
anyway, that that was a long time ago and this is now, and oh, that
could never happen here. Oh, nothing like that will ever happen. And

(01:13:15):
I remember being seven years old and, and
my dad getting upset about something and saying, you know, you never
know what will happen tomorrow. Everything that, you
know, could change in a single day. And I remembered saying, oh, dad,
what Are you talking about was a very, very 1970s thing to say to
your parent was, oh, this is America. What are you talking, free country?

(01:13:37):
It's a free country is what I said to my dad. And he's like, no,
everything that, you know, could change in a day. Because when later
I realized much later, when I looked back
when he was seven years old, things did change for him in a day.
And, you know, we're in an environment politically and socially right
now that is really a potential powder keg and where

(01:13:59):
people don't see that we are slipping
further and further into. Into really, really scary,
polarized territory. And so I think people
have this idea that, well, that could never be me, because they think of
Nazis as just mustache twirling oil can
Harry. And, you know, the reality is a lot of these German

(01:14:22):
soldiers got into it for a lot of different reasons and had different
perspectives and still slipped into these morally questionable
position as soldiers. Right. They. They did things that were
immoral and unethical that they themselves
may not have believed they would have been doing, you know, years earlier.

(01:14:43):
So I just wanted to kind of explore that and really explore
like, you know, are. Are we capable of also
having redemption? You know, because if we
commit these types of sins, if we commit these types
of atrocities, is there a. Is there a redemption or
not? And so that. And I won't give the answer to that away

(01:15:05):
today, but that was really the exploration and
why we would call this of kind of a moral tale. So,
Peter, I think you could probably jump in here, but that's sort
of. I think you crystallized it. Yeah, I think he crystallized it pretty
well, actually. I think. I think the story does
explore moral guilt. A moral weight, you could say, or the weight

(01:15:27):
of guilt. I think that that's there throughout the whole story. That's
sort of the background that sort of permeates the whole story. The weight of
guilt and really kind. Of what defines monstrosity,
you know? Yeah, right. Because we can talk about
monsters, but. And we can have them be these sort of
fantastical creatures, but sometimes the real

(01:15:49):
monster is within. And so that was a piece of this.
Yeah, I mean, I think you summed it up pretty well. That's great. Thanks.
We drew a lot on really folkloric. Yeah, folkloric.
We really drew on folkloric horror for this
piece. I mean, I would. I'd probably. I mean, Peter and I have.
You have talked about this quite a bit, Peter. We kind of

(01:16:13):
would say it's cosmic horror with really
a lot of folkloric elements and
dread kind of as part of the piece. And. And,
Peter, you mentioned this idea of, like, not revealing things,
you know, that. That there's something enticing about kind
of really only revealing the monster really

(01:16:35):
at the end. Slow reveal.
Yeah, yeah. You just don't know. You're like, what's
happening here? As the audience, you're trying to figure out
with these men what is going on in this
remote village that they've just sort of stumbled upon.

(01:16:56):
And there are all these strange rituals happening and things
happening that they don't really understand. And, of course, they
have their own intrinsic bigotry that's coming
into that as well. And, you know,
what happens for them, I think, is faith to. Faith for us, Peter, is that
they believe that they're in control. And

(01:17:18):
slowly but surely, moment by
moment, they start to lose that control until they realize
their own world is really turned upside down by the. By the
horror of this, you know, otherworldly village.
And. And that's really kind of the. The. That's really
what we were trying to bring to this particular. Particular

(01:17:41):
piece. We. And we really try to put in. You
know, I would say. I don't know if this gives it away, Peter, but
to say that you get taken down a few different
paths to try and understand what this might be. Yeah. And what we
hope is that people come to the end and are truly kind of like,
oh, my God, I did not realize it was going to be this. It has

(01:18:04):
kind of the thing that we generally try to do. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, we love the Twilight Zone. Yeah, definitely that kind of
structure. Yeah. I would say it's a slowly tightening
knot, sort of. And then at the end, there's this
reveal. This is what it is. This is what's happening here. Nice.
I definitely, definitely can't wait to. And we generally try to do that with all

(01:18:25):
of the pieces. Yeah, yeah, we
try to do that with each of these pieces that we've written. And we have
a number of these. This is just the first episode. But the idea of the
Night Visitor podcast was to have. You
know, it's an anthology, so we're. These are each
episode or each series. I'm going to say these four. We're releasing

(01:18:47):
it in three episodes with a fourth kind of anchor about,
you know, sort of like this, how we. How we came up with the concept
and all of that. And then we have. Our next episode is
just a completely different story. But each one of these has that kind
of Twilight Zone structure. And is you really
kind of have that nice twist at the end. And it's really

(01:19:08):
exploring these sort of moral questions is really
what. That's awesome. So it's going to be three total, and then with the
fourth, kind of like director's cut, behind the scenes, how the sausage was made,
type of. Exactly. Yes. Three
chapters to this particular episode and then the next episode.
Also what we're doing is we're mashing up genres. So, you know, the

(01:19:31):
next episode, like, we have another episode, for example, that's a western story,
you know, but also dealing with a supernatural element
to it. That's amazing. That's like a western ghost
story. Yeah. Nice. And, guys, what do you hope that
listeners, after finishing the Night Visitor come away with? Whether it
be scared or exhilarated or thoughtful or

(01:19:53):
all of the above? I'm leaning towards the latter with the
thoughtful and kind of like introspective. Yeah. Based on what? You guys.
I think there's a haunting. I think it ends on a haunting note.
And I think this gives you a lot to think about. First of all, because
of the times that we're in right now with the way things are swinging to
the right, I think that's inherent. I think there's a

(01:20:14):
political, social awareness to it. I think that's just inherent because of what's
happening right now. And the funny thing is, we wrote this originally a really long
time ago, before we were at where we're at politically. It's like the
more things change the same. I know. Yeah.
Unfortunately. Yeah. Well, sometimes you see things coming and
you go, I don't know, you know, like, hopefully we can swing things away.

(01:20:36):
I mean, one of the. One of the ideas about the reason for
doing this is when I was growing up and, Peter, I think you. You
feel the same way. We used to watch, you know, Twilight Zone and
the reruns, and we used to watch the Twilight Zone marathons.
And, you know, what they were really trying to do was it was kind of.
It was for the social good. I really do think. Absolutely. I think that these

(01:20:58):
stories were told for that purpose. Rod Serling is another big
hero of mine. You know, Rod Serling created this on his own.
He wanted to discuss things, so he was discussing him through that. Through that
context. Yeah. I mean, Peter, I think even, you know,
for you, Rod Serling, I mean, as heard you talk about Rod Sterling
many, many, many times. You know, I. I think that

(01:21:21):
he was an influential figure for both of us. And we, We.
We grew up at a time when that type of storytelling
was more prevalent. And, yeah, we kind of wanted to
bring that back, I think, and, you know, that's what we. We
hope to do, is get people thinking. Of course. I want people to come
out of it feeling blown away. I want people to come out going, holy

(01:21:44):
crap. Yeah. Let's put it this way. I think it gives you. It
gives you all the things that you want from a horror piece and more, because
it also gives you something to think about. I love it. I
have two. Two questions left for you guys to wrap. The first,
more of a fun one, and the last one, more of a reflective question.
So to you both, if you could bring one classic

(01:22:06):
gothic or horror figure into the podcasting
world, for example, whether it be, like, Dracula, Frankenstein, etcetera,
Who would that be and why? Well, I'm a big fan of Dracula.
It's funny Larima mentioned Frankenstein. I love Frankenstein. The book,
and I love the book of Dracula. And to me, Dracula has
never really been. I don't think anyone's ever really did a faithful adaptation of the

(01:22:29):
book, and we've done so many versions of it. Not really. I think
that it's. Yeah, I would love to. I don't know if I would
do it, but, I mean. Oh, actually, I've written. I have the speeches screenplay I
mentioned earlier that interprets Dracula in the modern age,
but I think Dracula. I'd love to do my
own take on him. Awesome. How about you, Blue? Yeah.

(01:22:51):
I mean, it's difficult for me to even pick. I mean,
I think, like Peter said, my
favorite book is Frankenstein. I think I've also
never seen a proper adaptation, to me, anyway,
of Frankenstein. I think they've always just missed the mark
on that and on that character and on the

(01:23:14):
monster's intelligence. You know, I think
that that's just completely. It's just been so
misinterpreted so often. I don't know. I don't know that
I would bring that into the podcast world. I mean, like
Peter, I. I think Dracula, of course,
first comes to mind, because, to me, Dracula is, like,

(01:23:35):
the most. I don't know, He's. He's like the superman
of. Of horror characters,
to me. You know, like, there's nothing more quintessential
than Dracula. And like Peter said, I don't. I don't think
it's ever been done justice, you know,
I really don't think it's ever been really done justice. You know,

(01:23:57):
Speaking of. You know, it's funny, y'. All. Toro just did Frankenstein.
He's got a Frankenstein coming up. I know. Oh, nice I know I haven't
seen it. I'm crossed fingers on that because I love Kenya del
Toro. Yeah. I think, you know, everybody has their own
interpretation again, so they come to it with something different. And I'm sure he'll come
to it with his own personal, you know, stamp on it, which

(01:24:19):
will be very different. You know, I
don't know, actually, I guess I'll stop there because I could wax on about this
subject for a long time. I read a book recently,
Carmilla, and that actually created. And I was really interested because
it predecesses Dracula. Actually, it's
earlier. Oh, wow. It was really great. I really loved the

(01:24:41):
kind of a novella, Carmilla and. And it's about a
female. It's about a female vampire, which I thought was really cool.
And actually, while I was reading it, I thought this should totally be like
this. This character would do. Would be really interesting. Oh,
yeah. A podcast or screen or
whatever. I think it could be great. How interesting. And we don't often

(01:25:04):
get to see, like, a female lead female
vampire. I mean, really down. I'm trying to think of when the
last time that I saw. I saw that
depicted on in any form, whether film or
podcast or whatever, other than the novel, of course, I haven't seen
it. And yet I think that that would be. I mean, we have

(01:25:26):
Twilight, of course. I don't want to. I don't want to diss Twilight, but, you
know, when I'm thinking of. Of these stories, I guess I'm not
thinking of, like, ya stuff, but I'm sure there's stuff in there. But
it would be great to have something epic like that, you know, female character.
I agree. I'd love to see that. We have.
And, you know, actually, Peter was gonna say we. We have another. The other

(01:25:48):
episode that we also had does have a female lead,
which. The Unspeakable, which is a mashup of the
old 30s and 40s, you know.
Yeah. Invisible man kind of story meets kind of
comedy, actually. Comedy. There's a lot of comedy elements to that piece

(01:26:09):
that we brought into that. So we have a lot of stuff coming up that
explores these different. These different types of characters. We try to
put our own personal. Of course. Everybody does. Right.
We. We have also tried to put our own personal stamp on
some of these traditional monsters and stories.
And so hopefully that's what you'll see, or rather, that's what you'll

(01:26:31):
hear in our podcast. Awesome. So final question
for me, guys. If you could go back to your younger
creative self in those nascent stages of
getting into creativity, what advice would you give yourself?
Hmm. Good question. I say no.
No fear. Yeah. You know, just like the biggest

(01:26:53):
thing that gets in the way is hesitation. Yeah. And
really being kind of like, you know,
afraid. You know, being afraid to just get up and go and do.
Do the necessary things. Having structure
for me was. Was really, really important
in terms of taking myself to the next level. And

(01:27:15):
in that way, I wish I'd done that even earlier, was
really understand that this is. This is work, it's a job.
It's something that you should go and do every day. It's not something that
you do when you feel like it. You do it when you don't feel like
it too. And, you know, I think, yeah,
there's. There's also just understanding that you.

(01:27:37):
You are coming into it with an open, really, just absolutely
open mind and, you know, really open to trying
anything, being. Being experimental. But figure,
what would you add? I would say along the same lines, I would
say trust yourself. Go for it. Try.
Be willing to not be great at it the first time you do, because

(01:28:00):
you're probably not going to be willing to make mistakes. Don't let that
stop you from trying to understand that it's going to be a process of learning.
But try and trust yourself. Like, it's almost like a balance between trust yourself,
keeping an open mind. Keep an open mind. But, you know, express
yourself. Just try and be willing to learn. That's what I would
say. Yeah. Willingness to learn, for sure. And.

(01:28:23):
Yeah, absolutely. And yeah, like. Like you said, Peter, I think it's like
we're trying to find that balance between not letting other people tell
us who we are and, and, you
know, being being open to learning from others, but at the same time having
really developing a point of view. Yes. And
continuing to develop it. Yeah, yeah.

(01:28:46):
Getting. Getting out of your own way. Right. And something you guys said reminded me
of advice from Steven Pressfield, which is a writer
that I follow. I love him. Yes. The war. The art. The war of art.
The war of art, Absolutely. And what he says about turning pro
and, you know, showing up each day as if it's a job and taking
it seriously through. Through that lens. Yes,

(01:29:09):
yes, I agree. So, Blue Peter, tell our
listeners where they can find the upcoming first episode
of the Night Visitor. The release date, which I believe is October 14th.
Your social medias where folks can connect you if they so choose.
Well, you can come to thenightvisitor.com which is our
website, where we will have up to Date release information.

(01:29:32):
We will be releasing this on Apple Podcasts
so you'll see announcements there on our website and also
on Instagram. We're at Night Visitor
podcast on Instagram and like I said with Apple
Podcasts and we're also releasing on Spotify and Podcaster
and we're also going to ultimately have the full episode available

(01:29:56):
on YouTube on Halloween. But prior, if you want to catch us,
obviously prior to that on October 14th, you can catch
us on Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Awesome. And then Peter, your
socials, it's eterstaff. My handle on Instagram at
Peter. And then I think it's underscore stats. I should know these things should not.
You could definitely. You could connect with me. Anyway, if you go to tonight

(01:30:19):
to the Night Visitor podcast, find us there. You're going to
see my link right there and then you can link to my Instagram. I
was just going to say also that I'm not really huge
on social media. I do have an
Instagram handle, which is my full name, which is
Blarima B L E R I N E. But again

(01:30:41):
you can just go find it when you go to Night Visitor podcast on
Instagram. And, and I don't, I don't really post much on my personal.
But I will try. I will try throughout this process. I generally
tend to post off of our, off of our podcast
Instagram so you can find me there as well.
Yeah, awesome. That, that makes total sense. And for folks listening per

(01:31:03):
usual, I'll link to everything discussed in today's episode in the episode
notes, the website socials, all the references that that we made
so folks can check out the description of this episode where wherever it is that
you're listening and connect with everyone. Peter, Blue, I just
wanted to thank you once again for myself and sponsored A listeners. We
really appreciate you guys coming on. It was a great conversation. I'm sure folks will

(01:31:25):
gain a lot from it. Thank you. This is great. This is really a
nice experience. Thank you so much. Yeah, this is
fantastic. Tony, thank you so much. We really appreciate it and we
appreciate your listeners. Awesome. Thanks guys. Take care. Thank you. Take
care. Bye Bye. Take care. Bye.
And that was episode 291 of the Spud Today podcast. I hope you

(01:31:49):
all enjoyed that conversation as much as I did. One of the things
that really stood out to me, especially listening back,
putting the the show together, was how much respect Blue and Peter
have for each other's craft. The way they talk about collaboration
as a process for lifting each other up and
making the work stronger feels like a lesson that we can all take away that

(01:32:11):
goes way beyond writing and filmmaking. We also got into
what makes horror powerful when it's done right,
because it's not just about the blood and the jump scares, although it definitely
is that. But it's also about creating that uneasy mirror
of ourselves and reflecting on our own fears and
aspirations. Be sure to check out their new project, the night

(01:32:34):
visitor. Episode one will be airing on October
14th. Wherever it is that you listen to your podcasts,
I'm definitely looking forward to that fourth
episode. Very, very much so. As mentioned in the show,
it's a three part series to the story itself. And then they are
going to put out a fourth behind the scenes kind of how

(01:32:56):
the sausage is made type of episode, a director's cut version
if you will. And I love that kind of stuff. So I'm really looking forward
to that. And I'll link to everything in the show notes per usual
so you can follow along and support their work. The main place you want to
go to is the nightvisitor.com There you'll find links
to Spotify, Apple, YouTube, so on and so forth. Lou and

(01:33:18):
Peter, thank you very much once again for coming on the show. I can't wait
for what is to come. And to you, my dear listeners, if you like
this episode, go back into the archives and check out some of the other
conversations I've had with writers and creators. As always,
thanks for listening and don't forget to subscribe so that you don't miss the
next one. Please stick around to listen to a few ways you can help

(01:33:41):
support this show if you so choose. And until next time folks,
Peace. What's up folks?
Tony here. I hope you're enjoying the Spun Today podcast as much
as I enjoy producing it for you. Here are a few ways you can help
support the show. You can support the Spun Today podcast
financially by going to spuntoday.com

(01:34:03):
support. There you will find a couple different ways that you can do just that,
some of which will actually not even cost you a dime, such
as using my Amazon affiliate link. When you go to
spuncerday.com support, you'll see my affiliate
link to Amazon, click on it and click it will take you to Amazon's website
where you can do your shopping like normal. This will not cost you anything

(01:34:25):
extra, but Amazon will pay me for driving traffic to their website.
If you'd like to support the podcast more directly, you can do so by
becoming a patron@spuntoday.com support.
You'll also find my Patreon link. This is where creators such
as myself can be paid directly by patrons like you.
You can either make a one time donation or schedule recurring

(01:34:48):
donations if you so choose. There are also different tiers of support and
depending on which you decide to go with, you'll also receive some perks in return
such as early access to content, free digital copies of my books, free
bookmarks, etc. That is again by
supporting via my Patreon link available@ sponsorday.com
support similar to Patreon at that same location. You'll also find my

(01:35:10):
Ko Fi link as well as my Buy me a coffee link.
They work very similar to Patreon and are different ways you can help support the
show financially. And last but certainly not least, you have the good old
fashioned PayPal donation button. Any which way that you choose to
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which is writing and podcasting. Again, go to

(01:35:32):
spontaday.com support. You
can also support the Spun Today podcast by rating and reviewing the
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appreciate it because it really does help. Also, follow me on all
socials. Fun Today on X formerly known as
Twitter, Spun Today on Instagram and

(01:35:54):
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way you can help support the Spun Today podcast and also upgrade
that stale wardrobe of yours is by going to Spun Today.com

(01:36:18):
support and clicking on the banner for Stitch
Fix. Once you do, you'll enjoy a $25 discount to
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it and I've never been disappointed. You'll set up a profile. You'll put in all
the sizes for your clothes as well as all the different
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(01:36:39):
intuitive to set up. They'll show you pictures and pretty much give you a
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With this information there are thousands of patterns. Passionate trend
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(01:37:01):
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(01:37:22):
also support the Sponsor Day podcast, go to sponsorday.com
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Do you want to start your own podcast? Have a great show idea that you
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(01:37:44):
Use the podcast host Libsyn. That's who I use to bring
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(01:38:07):
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(01:38:29):
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always, folks, substitute the mysticism with hard work and start

(01:38:51):
taking steps in the general direction of your dreams.
Thanks for listening.
I love you Aiden. I love you Daddy.

(01:39:14):
I love you Grayson.

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#291 – Crafting Horror and Humanity: Behind the Scenes with The Night Visitor’s Blu Topalli and Peter Stass

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}#291 – Crafting Horror and Humanity: Behind the Scenes with The Night Visitor’s Blu Topalli and Peter Stass