March 5, 2025 • 38 mins
Africa is a continent rich with indigenous wellness rituals and unique botanicals, but growing the wellness industry within Africa is a challenge on many levels. Mariane Akwenye of NomadSpa and Michelle Saudan of Amanzi Wellbeing, Chair and Vice-Chair of the African Wellness Initiative from GWI, are passionate about the continent's history and culture and determined to spread the word globally.
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Michelle Saudan (00:00):
Foreign.
Lisa Starr (00:04):
Hello, listeners, it's Lisa Starr, back with another episode of Starcast, the
podcast for wellness professionals.
So today we're going to take a journey halfway
around the world and we are joined by twoillustrious ladies from the continent of
Africa.
If you've been following wellness, you'veheard a lot about Africa in the news in the
(00:24):
last few years because there are so manyamazing indigenous practices there.
But it is still a bit of a mystery to much ofthe rest of the world.
So we're going to pull back the veil a littlebit with our guests today, Michelle Sadan and
Marianne Akwenme, who are joining us fromAfrica.
So welcome, ladies.
Thanks for being here.
Michelle Saudan (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
Lisa Starr (00:46):
So let's start by diving a little bit into each of your histories.
And Marianne, let's start with you.
Tell us what your current role is in spa andwellness in Africa and then you know a little
bit about your journey to that post.
Mariane Akwenye (01:02):
Right.
So my current role is the chairperson for the
African Wellness Initiative by Global WellnessInstitute.
And I also operate and own a wellness groupwhere we have a training institute, we have
spas, and we also manufacture our ownindigenous range of cosmetics.
(01:27):
And that's what I currently am doing.
But my journey started in aviation, funny
enough.
I started flying as a pilot.
Lisa Starr (01:36):
So you were a pilot?
Mariane Akwenye (01:38):
I was a pilot, yes.
I'm Namibia's first black female pilot.
Lisa Starr (01:42):
Amazing.
Mariane Akwenye (01:43):
But, and it helped me tremendously, actually, that role, because,
you know, the country was looking up to me andI was asked to inspire young people or young
girls whenever I would be back in, in thecountry.
And that's really where I noticed that there'sa huge lack of just skills and being
interested in the wellness sort of space.
(02:04):
I also saw on the other side of the world howwellness was presented and how the world
embraced wellness and how it could, you know,it was excellent careers for young, young
women from all over the world that enabledthem to travel and be able to uplift
themselves.
So that those are the two worlds that I wasin.
(02:26):
And then I thought, let me come back home anddo this.
Lisa Starr (02:30):
So you're being a pilot really helped your perspective in multiple ways
because you were able to travel outside ofNamibia, your home country, and see what was
happening elsewhere and realizing, oh, wecould have this at home.
Mariane Akwenye (02:43):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Because at home at the time,
as a career and an industry, it was almost nonexistent and there was no ways I would have
stayed within the country and known what theworld was doing.
So aviation actually exposed me and allowed meto see what was Happening and bring it back.
Lisa Starr (03:04):
And Michelle, what's your story? I think you had some travel in yours as well.
Michelle Saudan (03:09):
I did, yes.
I started my career in cruise ships.
I worked for Steiner as a inothermist columnas a facial therapist.
And then my career just evolved.
They say sometimes you're drawn and pulled
into different directions based on yourclients, you know.
(03:30):
So I naturally had a vested interest inindigenous healing arts, but I just didn't
know how to connect the dots.
So I went the western way, you know, went intosound healing therapy.
I'm a trauma informed facilitator for women'scircles,
(03:50):
somatic therapist and then worked inmanagement and now finally launched Amanzi
well being that is dedicated to creatingretreats that are focused on Africa's unique
wellness assets and the culture, the people.
Lisa Starr (04:08):
So let's talk a little bit about the culture of the people.
We hear, you know, in the Western world, youhear Africa and you think it's like one big
country.
Right.
But it's not.
In reality, it is 54 countries with all
different sets of practices, rituals,geography, weather, everything.
I mean, it's a very diverse place.
(04:30):
But I think that there are some cultural
threads that run through Africa.
What would you say those are?
Michelle Saudan (04:38):
I would say they're more community based interventions.
And we'd go back to the philosophy of Ubuntuitself, which is a Bantu philosophy translated
into I am who I am because of who we all are.
So you'll find that a lot of the rituals,
everything in Africa is done communally.
(05:01):
There is nothing, there is no separation fromthe individual and their community.
So healing rituals, ceremony, even modern daypractices are all done in community.
So yes, I'm digressing here, but I would saycommunity based interventions.
Lisa Starr (05:21):
Okay, that's excellent.
And Marianne, do you have something to share?
Mariane Akwenye (05:26):
Sure. I 100% agree with Michelle.
Absolutely everything is community based.
But what I would like to add is that it's alsovery much elders, healers, sort of shamans.
What we know as every community has thatperson that you sort of tap into and go for
(05:47):
spiritual guidance, healing, all of thosethings.
I think those are the two distinct sort ofaspects when it comes to wellness on the
continent, that is across the board.
Lisa Starr (05:59):
Did you have wellness practices in your homes growing up that were just
commonplace?
Mariane Akwenye (06:06):
Oh, absolutely.
And I think for me as a girl child growing up
in the household, one of the common practicesthat stands out, you know, when you ask this
question is whenever my dad would come fromwork, because most of the workforce at the
time were laborers so it's hard work.
(06:29):
One of my duties as a girl child was to alwayshave handy a bucket of warm water.
There would always be salt, sea salt, andyou'd put it in there.
And it was a ritual.
He'll come from work before he does anything
else.
He'll sit down, I'll sit at his feet and I'll
be washing his feet.
And you know, as you evolve and get into theworld and you go to spas and they'll do a
(06:54):
welcome ritual with by washing feet and itsort of takes you back.
Oh, we used to do that as just so.
Yes, there's a lot of those practices that we
naturally do and not equate them or take themback to as a wellness practice.
Michelle Saudan (07:12):
And then for us we tea was a practice.
And very much like Mariana said, there is nodefinition.
We don't say, oh, we're sitting down to have atea ceremony or it's a ritual.
It's just the natural way of being so theessence of going to the garden and depending
(07:33):
on the season, because the gardens are nottamed gardens, the garden is the whole field.
And you'd go there and depending on theseason, pick whatever bush tea is in season
that time.
And that's what we would brew and always,
always morning and evening, always sattogether as a family.
(07:55):
And that's where we spoke, you know, and overbush tea.
So that was something that we practiced.
Lisa Starr (08:01):
I love that.
Thank you for sharing those.
So flash forward to today.
The current state of wellness in Africa.
You have pockets that are fairly well
developed.
South Africa has a very rich spa culture.
There's probably at least 300 day spas there,hotel spas, very nice ones.
(08:21):
There are safari spas you have.
Morocco has a good pocket of very high end
spas, but those are two different ends of thecountry.
You know, what would you say is happeningacross Africa when it comes to wellness as a
business?
Mariane Akwenye (08:39):
Yeah, as you rightfully said, Lisa, there are those pockets that has been
wirelessly developed, commercialized, thesystems are in there and then across the
board, there are the pockets that areindividuals doing extraordinary work.
They are not commercialized per se ororganized in a set in a way that the world
(09:05):
will notice.
And I think it's one of the things as the
initiative, the African Wellness Initiative,we're trying to bring together to say and
identify who and where are our practitioners,
what is happening on the continent so that wehave that database and the background which is
(09:26):
going to be such an eye opener for the world.
I think people will be as Quick.
As surprised as we are also finding out thatthere are amazing, amazing practitioners and
practices being done on the continent.
Michelle Saudan (09:41):
Just to add to that,
I think,
yes, there are a few really greatestablishments that are set up in the way the
spas in South Africa and Morocco are, but theones that are not is.
Is I think where we're missing it is one, thelack of awareness of what wellness is to us,
(10:07):
for us,
and also the value of it,
the understanding of the value of whatwellbeing, the impact.
In sort of a wellness setting,
we have individual buckets, you know,individual practices,
but it's not collated under a wellness settingbecause there is that.
(10:32):
There's a lot of misconception and there isn'tenough understanding on how to.
On what that is.
Lisa Starr (10:39):
Yeah,
right.
And who's going to be spending the money is
something else we have to think about.
I mean, when we look at the Global Wellness
Institute's Economy Monitor report, last oneon Africa was that between North Africa and
sub Saharan Africa, it was about 8,9 billionin revenue.
(11:01):
Now the growth rate is the fastest,
right?I mean, among all the world regions, it's the
fastest in Africa.
But of course, that's because it was coming
from, you know, a position of being behind.
So they're trying to catch up.
And you've got so many people living there andyet a very viable tourist business too.
(11:25):
Who do we want to build the wellness for?Right.
Is it for the tourist trade?
Is it for the people who live in Africa?What should be the approach to really get a
groundswell moving professionally?
Michelle Saudan (11:38):
I would say for the people, it's got to start from a grassroots level.
And if it can, if it.
If they can be parallel and work in synergy,
then that would be perfect, that would beideal.
But I think with where we are currently in thecurrent climate of the wellness industry
across the continent, I believe that it has tostart from the people, for the people.
(12:06):
And then only then can we, once we've definedfirst what it is for Africans across cultures,
then I think we can be able to say, hey,world, you know,
this is what we have to offer, you know.
Mariane Akwenye (12:21):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And that's exactly what I wanted to also add
in, is to say once we know the value of whatwe have,
I think we will.
The approach to it will be completely
different.
It's the unknown.
Hence, it's done in pockets.
It's done, you know, just as a way of being
(12:42):
and not realizing the value that lies withinthat.
Lisa Starr (12:45):
Those are great answers and I Think you're right?
Probably.
I mean, if the population doesn't embrace it,
how can you effectively present it to the restof the world?
But as we said, Africa is a huge place.
I mean, how do you conquer that?Because it's not an easy road, you know, to
get buy in from all these different regions.
I mean,
(13:06):
what you two are really taking on a massivetask.
Do you have a plan to sort of divide up thecountry in quadrants or start country by
country?Like how do you even tackle taming a
continent, as it were?
Mariane Akwenye (13:19):
I think the enthusiasm, you know,
the bravado and the bravery of us saying, yes,we're going to, you know, we're going to do
it.
We're so passionate about it, we of course put
up our hands.
But I think once now that we're in it andrealizing the mammoth task ahead of us,
(13:40):
it's daunting.
It really is a big task.
But so far so good, Michelle.
So far we're going with it.
But yes, we have a few.
I think what we're trying to do is have a fewgoals that we are going to be able to achieve
(14:01):
instead of, you know, trying to chew off toomuch.
And once we achieve one goal, we tackle thenext one and so on.
So we have certain goals as awi that wewanting to achieve and then those will lead
into other goals and making it sustainable.
Michelle Saudan (14:21):
I'd like to add that, you know, ancestrally the way tribes were managed
was the way they worked in unity was when eachtribal leader was called and they sat together
and they spoke, which is why I have the treein the background, because it was always
(14:41):
around the tree of life.
So our approach is by firstly expanding ourdatabase, which is something that we've
already done.
And we've got 15 African countries so far,
representatives,
we call them allies or friends of the AfricanWellness Initiative.
(15:03):
All practitioners, different roles and the waythat we would strategically be able to succeed
is by bringing all these people from all thesedifferent countries together.
And we've slowly started doing that inbatches.
Just two weeks ago we had a call with a fewladies from Mozambique and Jamaica, Afro
(15:28):
Caribbean.
So it's possible.
It's huge, it's possible, but we are makingdefinitely good headway and we have a plan in
place.
So that's how we are going about it.
Lisa Starr (15:39):
That's awesome.
I'm glad that you have goals that are near
term and you start slow.
It's a big task.
But I.
My money's on you.
You're up for it.
So thank you.
Along with the goals.
I mean, some topics that come up whendiscussing African wellness are sort of,
(16:00):
let me say, an experience.
When I've been in Africa and gone to a spa and
I want to have a facial or a massage,sometimes they bring out brands and practices
that are from Europe or somewhere else in thewest and because that's who trained them.
Right. And I understand how it happens, butit's not African.
(16:21):
And then you may go to a safari spa, which Ihave done, and you have some sort of body
treatment or massage while you're looking outat the landscape and they're using more
indigenous ingredients or practices.
And that's so much more authentic.
And I'm sure that's the way that you want to
proceed.
But you know, there's not a lot of
(16:43):
infrastructure in Africa for training andbringing these brands and these practices to
the forefront.
So how.
How can we help tackle that?
What, what's your plan for that?
Mariane Akwenye (16:56):
I think,
yeah, it, it has to start at grass, at thegrassroots.
The way the, the training schools, the beautyschools are structured, it's very much
Western.
The products that they use in there are
Western.
So of course the natural evolution of it is
then to have the end product of a reference, aspa that looks like a western spa, because
(17:21):
that is what they comfortable with.
What we alluded to in the beginning, you know,when we are going to start at the grassroots
and trying to find our own value within whatwe are offering.
I think when it starts there, that's when it'sgoing to sort of emerge from, to say this
practice by this elder or by this tribe.
(17:45):
When they do this, it means that and we slowlybring all those practices and knowledge within
mainstream wellness as we will define it onthe continent.
And you're right, I mean, I work with a lot oftourists that come to the country and that is
exactly what they ask for.
(18:05):
They will tell you, but I didn't travel toAfrica for this European experience.
You know, when it comes to wellness, I want tohave an African wellness experience.
What is that?
So, of course, the N Stay.
Lisa Starr (18:18):
Yeah, I was going to say in fairness that that is probably within the last
10 years has developed because there wasn'tanother option.
And.
And tourists were not as adventurous.
Right.
I mean, they wanted the familiar, especiallybeing in a place that can feel very strange to
you.
But now I think consumers are so much moreaware of wellness and the practices and the
(18:43):
options that they are seeking, moreinteresting and indigenous options when they
travel.
So that's new, but I think it's new in A good
way.
Do you agree?
Mariane Akwenye (18:55):
Absolutely, yes.
I think you also find that with food,
when you look at the culinary world, you know,with the tourists before, they wanted to have
specific things that they familiar with thedishes that they could understand, but they
have since evolved into, let's try what isindigenous.
You know, we'll try that.
(19:16):
And I think it's spilling over to all other
experiences and wellness being one of them.
Michelle Saudan (19:22):
It's a good thing.
When you ask the question, Lisa, how do you
tackle that?And I think when we look at African brands
that are doing exceptionally well, I'llreference a lady by the name.
Her brand is I Am Hammam Mat.
And she just, you know, produces shea butter
(19:43):
and gets the whole community involved.
And you see videos of the women in the village
churning that shea butterfly and it's.
She's got millions of followers and, you know,it gets shipped all over the world, across
Africa.
So I think how do we tackle that is first and
foremost knowledge.
(20:03):
Embracing authenticity.
For local people to know that, you know, what
you have is so powerful in its most simplestform.
Yeah. And just embracing that authenticity.
Because sometimes I know with the few brands
in Zimbabwe, where I'm originally from,
they get stuck because we're trying to measureup with La Prairie brand, you know, and say,
(20:28):
is it, you know, the packaging and everythingjust doesn't, if it doesn't look like that,
then it's not good enough.
Lisa Starr (20:34):
Well, we do have to encourage consumers to move beyond that.
And I think people are, they're aware that somuch money, especially in cosmetics and
skincare retailing, so much money is spent onthe message, the packaging, the ads in the
magazines and consumers expecting something tolook like a high end brand from a Western
(20:56):
department store.
And it's not going to look that way fromAfrica.
But the products are pure and authentic andthe money wants to go into the product, not
the packaging.
So that's another sort of learning.
I guess we'll have to cross a barrier.
We'll cross with consumers.
But if you're coming to Africa and you'relooking for authenticity, it's not going to
(21:17):
look like a La Prairie bottle.
Mariane Akwenye (21:19):
Absolutely.
Lisa Starr (21:20):
And there are, there are a number of African cosmetic brands at this point and
skincare brands are there, not from Zimbabwe.
Michelle Saudan (21:28):
There is a brand that is distributing Moringa baobab,
Resurrection Bush tea in Carrefour, if you'refamiliar with the market and you know, they're
doing so well, there is massive potential aswell as from.
Mariane Akwenye (21:47):
Namibia, the Marula oil.
So Marula oil is very high in demand.
And it's one of our biggest exports forcosmetics in its raw form that then goes and,
you know, supplied to big, big beauty brandsin America, in Europe and so on.
Lisa Starr (22:04):
You raise a good point, Marianne.
We have big pharma companies and cosmetic
companies coming into the continent of Africaand extracting ingredients that are indigenous
to you and taking them and using them inproducts elsewhere in the world.
But the locals don't always have access tothat.
I mean, how, how can we change that equation?I'm not even sure there's an easy way.
Mariane Akwenye (22:27):
It's, it's not an easy way.
And again, it's that thing of the locals not
understanding the value in the product thatthey have, but also having the infrastructure
to then manufacture or have the end product,you know, the whole process to the end
product, the capacity is not there.
It's easier to just, you know, take it out inits raw form.
(22:51):
The processing facilities are not available oraccessible or the funding for it is not.
So it's a multi layered issue.
But there are pockets of companies that havestarted to, you know, go head on and develop
and export a complete product, but not at therate that is significantly making inroads.
(23:12):
So it's a complex question and a complexproblem to fix.
And it starts also, you know, it needs thegovernment, the policies to be in place to say
we cannot just extract these raw ingredients.
Maybe put in policies to say when you extracta ton, have a ton locally and put some value
(23:32):
to it as an example.
Because the locals need to understand what the
value is in that raw product or rawingredient.
Michelle Saudan (23:43):
Policymakers, the government need to have a firmer stand on fair trade that
is equal across the board.
Lisa Starr (23:52):
That's a difficult thing to tackle with all the different governments that are
involved for sure, but it's something to thinkabout.
It's just another challenge of which you haveno many.
Beyond what we've discussed, the geography andthe government, what other challenges are
there for developing the wellness industry inAfrica?
Maybe one thing I'll mention would belicensing, right?
(24:16):
I mean, I'm sure many countries don't havelicensing for therapists or training.
So what things are some of the goals you haveto tackle as part of the African Wellness
Initiative?What do you think is the first thing you need
to do?
Mariane Akwenye (24:29):
It's such a multi layered question and problem that there is, because at
every level I believe there is a challenge,you know, to have an organized sort of
training association.
For instance,
what are we, what is our benchmark?What is our,
what training are we going to be giving, as anexample, are we going to give licensing for a
(24:56):
Swedish massage or are we trying to developour own African wellness massage, for a lack
of a better word, who is the custodian ofthat?
So it's so multi layered.
That's why I don't have a single answer to
say, oh, this is a solution to that problem inevery stage and every step.
(25:19):
I think we need to dissect it and see where dowe start to tackle this specific problem.
Whether it's training, whether it's products,whether it's the definition of African
wellness.
Yeah, so many things, very many things,
Michelle.
Michelle Saudan (25:34):
I believe creating a bridge where there's an integration with the
traditional healers associations,
with the wellness spaces.
Because you know, the World Health
Organization has already advocated for theintegration of traditional healers into modern
healthcare.
Most of the countries, for example, Ghana,Nigeria, Zimbabwe, I know, definitely have a
(25:59):
traditional healers association.
So it's being able to have the conversationswith them and as well as our traditional
Westernized spouse and seeing how we canrevere these practices and merge them
together.
Lisa Starr (26:21):
So a lot of this success will rest on you too, getting some help.
Right.
You can't do this alone.
Empowering the future generations and helpingthem understand what's a strategy to do that.
How can you teach the young people like youlearned Marianne when you left as a pilot and
came back and saw the opportunities that wereelsewhere?
(26:43):
How do we make that filter down now?
Mariane Akwenye (26:46):
I think initiatives like these is definitely very critical in that
aspect because we create awareness.
We create because as an example, when westarted with our training institute, grass
root level, taking that young girl who hasn'tfinished school for whatever reason to try and
(27:08):
give her a skill and elevate her.
The backlash was from even her own guardiansor the parents not understanding what this
world is about and thinking what is my childgoing to do?
Because it's not at your traditionalprofessions that everybody, you know, think
that it's better off or so on.
Lisa Starr (27:27):
We have that in the west too.
But yes, for sure.
Mariane Akwenye (27:31):
Yeah. Because of course when a child goes to school or when you know it's
not just for the betterment of that child, isagain the whole community and uplifting sort
of.
It all rests on this one child's shoulders tobetter herself or himself so that the whole
sort of family community that, that rippleeffect.
(27:53):
So if the decision is to go into a world thatis not known or the value of it is not
understood,
then again the support is not there toencourage them to continue and go into that
into that sort of direction.
And that is.
I'm coming from a personal experience, sort of
(28:15):
how I see the industry and how it can evolveso that we can see it from the inside out as
opposed to what is being done and how it lookslike.
So I think,
again, it's platforms like these to get theword out there to understand what it is that
we're doing, what the industry is all about.
(28:36):
And then the other bridge, as Michelle
mentioned, of those that are already withinthe industry, doing it maybe differently, but
not to say that they're different is notworthy.
And merging these two worlds and a.
Michelle Saudan (28:50):
Large one as well, is representation,
you know, so Susie Ellis has the scholarshipfor equity and wellness, which is such a great
step,
you know, so that girl in the village wasgoing to see, you know, another,
you know, woman who looks like her, you know,doing what she loves authentically, is going
(29:15):
to say, wow, you know, if she can, I can it.
Representation makes all the difference.
And in the current, you know, scheme ofthings, it's amazing to see that platforms and
establishments like GWI and many others alikeare taking a stand to be more inclusive.
(29:35):
And when that happens, I think the rest, it'llonly unfold naturally.
Yeah.
Lisa Starr (29:42):
Can you share some of the interesting that you find practices from
around Africa that you think we could bring tothe forefront in wellness beyond what we've
talked about already, like ingredients.
What are some of the routines or rituals thatyou think would be great to segue into
wellness practices?
Michelle Saudan (30:02):
I would.
I'll start off with, you know, in.
In. In, you know, southern Africa, maybe allacross Africa, is the use of sonic
instruments.
We're all familiar with sound baths and gongbaths, but in Africa as well, sound and
vibration was used as a medium to transportpeople, a medium to, you know, to change
(30:25):
energy somatically.
So I think the use of these beautiful sonicinstruments that not many people know of is a
beautiful way to integrate.
They're not difficult to play.
It just needs, you know, to be respected, ofcourse.
But I think those.
The instruments there is Creato Mutwa, who was
(30:47):
a Zulu shaman.
He is late now, rest his soul.
But he spoke about umbilini.
Umbilini.
Now,
in India, we are familiar with kundalini, butdid you know that in Zulu shamanism there is
kumbilini, which is very much the same, thechanneling of energy from your root right to
(31:10):
the crown with the use of breath and certainmovements from the body mechanics.
So I think different breathwork practices.
The San in Namibia, you know, we're in the
Marianne's background, you know, they havesomething called a healing dance, which I was
fortunate to be able to take one of my retreatgroups to go witness last year.
(31:32):
So they have a healing dance and they also usevery powerful breath work as they stomp and
connect with the earth.
So I think, you know, practices like these, I
could go on forever.
Lisa Starr (31:45):
But please do tell us some more.
Those are fascinating.
Mariane Akwenye (31:50):
It's so rich.
It's so,
yeah, it's unlike what the world has seen andexperienced.
And they go into a trance.
The sun people, you know, as they dancing,
they go into a trance and they channel thatand it's just beautiful.
Yeah, go for it.
Sorry.
Michelle Saudan (32:07):
And then you've got the smoking rituals with the Himba women, smoke
baths, you know, there is nothing.
It was amazing.
So, so, so practices like, like that,
you know, being, being planted in the ground.
There is one in the Igbo tribe of Namibi of
(32:29):
Nigeria where they one is planted into theearth.
And it's a beautiful way of,
you know, reconnecting and being ground, whatthe.
Mariane Akwenye (32:41):
West will call grounding, you know, walking barefoot.
They probably immerse you completely.
Lisa Starr (32:46):
And yeah, it's fascinating.
I, it's, it's wonderful that those are being
collected, you know, because they're so spreadout.
I mean, is there a resource for people, maybelisteners, to learn about some of these?
Where, where do you find out what's happeningin the different countries,
you know, at the moment?
Michelle Saudan (33:06):
Lisa, there are a lot of resources, there are a lot of novels, but the
thing is that they are all, you know,widespread.
There isn't one which is collated.
So this is where we come into place and this
is our goal.
And we will start with our quarterlynewsletter and as well as on, on our landing
(33:27):
page, start to add authors, white papers,practices where in video, so mixed media, that
would then collate all of these beautifulpractices, and not just for educational
purposes, but also a theory that one can takeand adapt to their own modern life.
(33:48):
So we'll be sharing a lot of that so peoplecan keep posted on the AWI LinkedIn page.
That's where we'll keep sharing a lot of thiswisdom.
Lisa Starr (33:58):
That's wonderful.
It's fascinating.
Have you had any success working withhospitality brands who might be able to help
carry these messages across a wider area ofAfrica?
Mariane Akwenye (34:10):
I think the interest is there definitely, because now that it is under the
AWI or a formal sort of setting, we aregetting inquiries, people wanting to know and
understand what it is.
It's still early stages But I think soonenough we will definitely open up to those
industries or those brands to connect with usor maybe even tap into whoever's on our
(34:36):
database that we collecting.
Michelle Saudan (34:38):
Yeah, we, we haven't tackled that at Nilo yet, to be honest.
Lisa Starr (34:44):
Another one on your long list.
In addition to your day jobs, of course.
How can listeners support you or get involvedshould they want to?
You've mentioned the LinkedIn page for theAfrican Wellness initiative, so they should go
there and follow that.
What else are some things that we could helpyou do?
Michelle Saudan (35:04):
If one is a practitioner,
a spa manager, just doing anything under theumbrella of wellness on the continent of
Africa, your presence in any form is going toundeniably support the initiative because we
(35:25):
need more of us together.
So a unified Africa and we'll figure out, youknow, where the strengths or where the,
the roots can be connected.
So we're practitioners, we are building the
database spa managers, we are looking atdeveloping the training pillar of the awi.
(35:45):
So just being in touch with you, knowing whatyou're able to, to offer what we can share,
but also knowing how we can support you asIt's a 360 movement,
a hundred percent.
Lisa Starr (35:59):
What Michelle just said, your contact information is on your LinkedIn page
where people could email you if they'd liketo.
And also on the GWI website, I should mentionwhere the initiatives live.
I'm sure your contact information is there.
So let's close with sort of.
I'd like to hear your dream of the future ofAfrican wellness in 10 years.
(36:22):
What will be happening if you're successful?
Michelle Saudan (36:25):
Well, I say when we are successful.
Lisa Starr (36:29):
Thank you.
Very good.
Michelle Saudan (36:31):
I would say, Lisa, it's more of authentic custodians on the forefront
delivering and showcasing.
When you hear Africa,
you think wellness, you think healing, youthink transformation and the custodians who
(36:52):
delivering that, delivering it in a sense thatthere is pride, there is authenticity and
there is.
They are being well compensated and looked
after and being protected.
So for me that is what success would looklike.
All these hidden gems up to the surface, butprotected at the same time.
Mariane Akwenye (37:14):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree with you more.
The authenticity part, the protection of thecustodians understanding and finally realizing
their value, the custodians that it is not adying craft, that it is brought to the fore
and that the world can experience butresponsibly.
Lisa Starr (37:35):
Well, these are wonderful messages and we so appreciate your time today.
It's fascinating story and you have a big jobahead of you, but I think you're up to it.
The two of you are so passionate about whatyou're doing and we want to help you in the
wellness community bring these practices wewant to help you in the wellness community to
(37:58):
bring these practices to the forefront.
It is a beautiful thing.
I'd like to thank you Mariana Kwenye, managingdirector of the Nomad Group from Namibia, and
Michelle Sadan, founder and facilitator ofAmanzi well Being, based in Zimbabwe and
Dubai, but both citizens of the world, butpassionate citizens of Africa first.
(38:21):
So wonderful story.
Thank you so much for sharing with us today.
Mariane Akwenye (38:25):
Thank you, Lisa. We appreciate the opportunity and the platform.
Thank you.
Lisa Starr (38:30):
You're welcome.
Michelle Saudan (38:31):
Thank you so much, Lisa.
Lisa Starr (38:32):
You are welcome.
Foreign.
Lisa Starr (00:04):
Hello, listeners, it's Lisa Starr, back with another episode of Starcast, the
podcast for wellness professionals.
So today we're going to take a journey halfway
around the world and we are joined by twoillustrious ladies from the continent of
Africa.
If you've been following wellness, you'veheard a lot about Africa in the news in the
(00:24):
last few years because there are so manyamazing indigenous practices there.
But it is still a bit of a mystery to much ofthe rest of the world.
So we're going to pull back the veil a littlebit with our guests today, Michelle Sadan and
Marianne Akwenme, who are joining us fromAfrica.
So welcome, ladies.
Thanks for being here.
Michelle Saudan (00:44):
Thank you for having me.
Lisa Starr (00:46):
So let's start by diving a little bit into each of your histories.
And Marianne, let's start with you.
Tell us what your current role is in spa andwellness in Africa and then you know a little
bit about your journey to that post.
Mariane Akwenye (01:02):
Right.
So my current role is the chairperson for the
African Wellness Initiative by Global WellnessInstitute.
And I also operate and own a wellness groupwhere we have a training institute, we have
spas, and we also manufacture our ownindigenous range of cosmetics.
(01:27):
And that's what I currently am doing.
But my journey started in aviation, funny
enough.
I started flying as a pilot.
Lisa Starr (01:36):
So you were a pilot?
Mariane Akwenye (01:38):
I was a pilot, yes.
I'm Namibia's first black female pilot.
Lisa Starr (01:42):
Amazing.
Mariane Akwenye (01:43):
But, and it helped me tremendously, actually, that role, because,
you know, the country was looking up to me andI was asked to inspire young people or young
girls whenever I would be back in, in thecountry.
And that's really where I noticed that there'sa huge lack of just skills and being
interested in the wellness sort of space.
(02:04):
I also saw on the other side of the world howwellness was presented and how the world
embraced wellness and how it could, you know,it was excellent careers for young, young
women from all over the world that enabledthem to travel and be able to uplift
themselves.
So that those are the two worlds that I wasin.
(02:26):
And then I thought, let me come back home anddo this.
Lisa Starr (02:30):
So you're being a pilot really helped your perspective in multiple ways
because you were able to travel outside ofNamibia, your home country, and see what was
happening elsewhere and realizing, oh, wecould have this at home.
Mariane Akwenye (02:43):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Because at home at the time,
as a career and an industry, it was almost nonexistent and there was no ways I would have
stayed within the country and known what theworld was doing.
So aviation actually exposed me and allowed meto see what was Happening and bring it back.
Lisa Starr (03:04):
And Michelle, what's your story? I think you had some travel in yours as well.
Michelle Saudan (03:09):
I did, yes.
I started my career in cruise ships.
I worked for Steiner as a inothermist columnas a facial therapist.
And then my career just evolved.
They say sometimes you're drawn and pulled
into different directions based on yourclients, you know.
(03:30):
So I naturally had a vested interest inindigenous healing arts, but I just didn't
know how to connect the dots.
So I went the western way, you know, went intosound healing therapy.
I'm a trauma informed facilitator for women'scircles,
(03:50):
somatic therapist and then worked inmanagement and now finally launched Amanzi
well being that is dedicated to creatingretreats that are focused on Africa's unique
wellness assets and the culture, the people.
Lisa Starr (04:08):
So let's talk a little bit about the culture of the people.
We hear, you know, in the Western world, youhear Africa and you think it's like one big
country.
Right.
But it's not.
In reality, it is 54 countries with all
different sets of practices, rituals,geography, weather, everything.
I mean, it's a very diverse place.
(04:30):
But I think that there are some cultural
threads that run through Africa.
What would you say those are?
Michelle Saudan (04:38):
I would say they're more community based interventions.
And we'd go back to the philosophy of Ubuntuitself, which is a Bantu philosophy translated
into I am who I am because of who we all are.
So you'll find that a lot of the rituals,
everything in Africa is done communally.
(05:01):
There is nothing, there is no separation fromthe individual and their community.
So healing rituals, ceremony, even modern daypractices are all done in community.
So yes, I'm digressing here, but I would saycommunity based interventions.
Lisa Starr (05:21):
Okay, that's excellent.
And Marianne, do you have something to share?
Mariane Akwenye (05:26):
Sure. I 100% agree with Michelle.
Absolutely everything is community based.
But what I would like to add is that it's alsovery much elders, healers, sort of shamans.
What we know as every community has thatperson that you sort of tap into and go for
(05:47):
spiritual guidance, healing, all of thosethings.
I think those are the two distinct sort ofaspects when it comes to wellness on the
continent, that is across the board.
Lisa Starr (05:59):
Did you have wellness practices in your homes growing up that were just
commonplace?
Mariane Akwenye (06:06):
Oh, absolutely.
And I think for me as a girl child growing up
in the household, one of the common practicesthat stands out, you know, when you ask this
question is whenever my dad would come fromwork, because most of the workforce at the
time were laborers so it's hard work.
(06:29):
One of my duties as a girl child was to alwayshave handy a bucket of warm water.
There would always be salt, sea salt, andyou'd put it in there.
And it was a ritual.
He'll come from work before he does anything
else.
He'll sit down, I'll sit at his feet and I'll
be washing his feet.
And you know, as you evolve and get into theworld and you go to spas and they'll do a
(06:54):
welcome ritual with by washing feet and itsort of takes you back.
Oh, we used to do that as just so.
Yes, there's a lot of those practices that we
naturally do and not equate them or take themback to as a wellness practice.
Michelle Saudan (07:12):
And then for us we tea was a practice.
And very much like Mariana said, there is nodefinition.
We don't say, oh, we're sitting down to have atea ceremony or it's a ritual.
It's just the natural way of being so theessence of going to the garden and depending
(07:33):
on the season, because the gardens are nottamed gardens, the garden is the whole field.
And you'd go there and depending on theseason, pick whatever bush tea is in season
that time.
And that's what we would brew and always,
always morning and evening, always sattogether as a family.
(07:55):
And that's where we spoke, you know, and overbush tea.
So that was something that we practiced.
Lisa Starr (08:01):
I love that.
Thank you for sharing those.
So flash forward to today.
The current state of wellness in Africa.
You have pockets that are fairly well
developed.
South Africa has a very rich spa culture.
There's probably at least 300 day spas there,hotel spas, very nice ones.
(08:21):
There are safari spas you have.
Morocco has a good pocket of very high end
spas, but those are two different ends of thecountry.
You know, what would you say is happeningacross Africa when it comes to wellness as a
business?
Mariane Akwenye (08:39):
Yeah, as you rightfully said, Lisa, there are those pockets that has been
wirelessly developed, commercialized, thesystems are in there and then across the
board, there are the pockets that areindividuals doing extraordinary work.
They are not commercialized per se ororganized in a set in a way that the world
(09:05):
will notice.
And I think it's one of the things as the
initiative, the African Wellness Initiative,we're trying to bring together to say and
identify who and where are our practitioners,
what is happening on the continent so that wehave that database and the background which is
(09:26):
going to be such an eye opener for the world.
I think people will be as Quick.
As surprised as we are also finding out thatthere are amazing, amazing practitioners and
practices being done on the continent.
Michelle Saudan (09:41):
Just to add to that,
I think,
yes, there are a few really greatestablishments that are set up in the way the
spas in South Africa and Morocco are, but theones that are not is.
Is I think where we're missing it is one, thelack of awareness of what wellness is to us,
(10:07):
for us,
and also the value of it,
the understanding of the value of whatwellbeing, the impact.
In sort of a wellness setting,
we have individual buckets, you know,individual practices,
but it's not collated under a wellness settingbecause there is that.
(10:32):
There's a lot of misconception and there isn'tenough understanding on how to.
On what that is.
Lisa Starr (10:39):
Yeah,
right.
And who's going to be spending the money is
something else we have to think about.
I mean, when we look at the Global Wellness
Institute's Economy Monitor report, last oneon Africa was that between North Africa and
sub Saharan Africa, it was about 8,9 billionin revenue.
(11:01):
Now the growth rate is the fastest,
right?I mean, among all the world regions, it's the
fastest in Africa.
But of course, that's because it was coming
from, you know, a position of being behind.
So they're trying to catch up.
And you've got so many people living there andyet a very viable tourist business too.
(11:25):
Who do we want to build the wellness for?Right.
Is it for the tourist trade?
Is it for the people who live in Africa?What should be the approach to really get a
groundswell moving professionally?
Michelle Saudan (11:38):
I would say for the people, it's got to start from a grassroots level.
And if it can, if it.
If they can be parallel and work in synergy,
then that would be perfect, that would beideal.
But I think with where we are currently in thecurrent climate of the wellness industry
across the continent, I believe that it has tostart from the people, for the people.
(12:06):
And then only then can we, once we've definedfirst what it is for Africans across cultures,
then I think we can be able to say, hey,world, you know,
this is what we have to offer, you know.
Mariane Akwenye (12:21):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
And that's exactly what I wanted to also add
in, is to say once we know the value of whatwe have,
I think we will.
The approach to it will be completely
different.
It's the unknown.
Hence, it's done in pockets.
It's done, you know, just as a way of being
(12:42):
and not realizing the value that lies withinthat.
Lisa Starr (12:45):
Those are great answers and I Think you're right?
Probably.
I mean, if the population doesn't embrace it,
how can you effectively present it to the restof the world?
But as we said, Africa is a huge place.
I mean, how do you conquer that?Because it's not an easy road, you know, to
get buy in from all these different regions.
I mean,
(13:06):
what you two are really taking on a massivetask.
Do you have a plan to sort of divide up thecountry in quadrants or start country by
country?Like how do you even tackle taming a
continent, as it were?
Mariane Akwenye (13:19):
I think the enthusiasm, you know,
the bravado and the bravery of us saying, yes,we're going to, you know, we're going to do
it.
We're so passionate about it, we of course put
up our hands.
But I think once now that we're in it andrealizing the mammoth task ahead of us,
(13:40):
it's daunting.
It really is a big task.
But so far so good, Michelle.
So far we're going with it.
But yes, we have a few.
I think what we're trying to do is have a fewgoals that we are going to be able to achieve
(14:01):
instead of, you know, trying to chew off toomuch.
And once we achieve one goal, we tackle thenext one and so on.
So we have certain goals as awi that wewanting to achieve and then those will lead
into other goals and making it sustainable.
Michelle Saudan (14:21):
I'd like to add that, you know, ancestrally the way tribes were managed
was the way they worked in unity was when eachtribal leader was called and they sat together
and they spoke, which is why I have the treein the background, because it was always
(14:41):
around the tree of life.
So our approach is by firstly expanding ourdatabase, which is something that we've
already done.
And we've got 15 African countries so far,
representatives,
we call them allies or friends of the AfricanWellness Initiative.
(15:03):
All practitioners, different roles and the waythat we would strategically be able to succeed
is by bringing all these people from all thesedifferent countries together.
And we've slowly started doing that inbatches.
Just two weeks ago we had a call with a fewladies from Mozambique and Jamaica, Afro
(15:28):
Caribbean.
So it's possible.
It's huge, it's possible, but we are makingdefinitely good headway and we have a plan in
place.
So that's how we are going about it.
Lisa Starr (15:39):
That's awesome.
I'm glad that you have goals that are near
term and you start slow.
It's a big task.
But I.
My money's on you.
You're up for it.
So thank you.
Along with the goals.
I mean, some topics that come up whendiscussing African wellness are sort of,
(16:00):
let me say, an experience.
When I've been in Africa and gone to a spa and
I want to have a facial or a massage,sometimes they bring out brands and practices
that are from Europe or somewhere else in thewest and because that's who trained them.
Right. And I understand how it happens, butit's not African.
(16:21):
And then you may go to a safari spa, which Ihave done, and you have some sort of body
treatment or massage while you're looking outat the landscape and they're using more
indigenous ingredients or practices.
And that's so much more authentic.
And I'm sure that's the way that you want to
proceed.
But you know, there's not a lot of
(16:43):
infrastructure in Africa for training andbringing these brands and these practices to
the forefront.
So how.
How can we help tackle that?
What, what's your plan for that?
Mariane Akwenye (16:56):
I think,
yeah, it, it has to start at grass, at thegrassroots.
The way the, the training schools, the beautyschools are structured, it's very much
Western.
The products that they use in there are
Western.
So of course the natural evolution of it is
then to have the end product of a reference, aspa that looks like a western spa, because
(17:21):
that is what they comfortable with.
What we alluded to in the beginning, you know,when we are going to start at the grassroots
and trying to find our own value within whatwe are offering.
I think when it starts there, that's when it'sgoing to sort of emerge from, to say this
practice by this elder or by this tribe.
(17:45):
When they do this, it means that and we slowlybring all those practices and knowledge within
mainstream wellness as we will define it onthe continent.
And you're right, I mean, I work with a lot oftourists that come to the country and that is
exactly what they ask for.
(18:05):
They will tell you, but I didn't travel toAfrica for this European experience.
You know, when it comes to wellness, I want tohave an African wellness experience.
What is that?
So, of course, the N Stay.
Lisa Starr (18:18):
Yeah, I was going to say in fairness that that is probably within the last
10 years has developed because there wasn'tanother option.
And.
And tourists were not as adventurous.
Right.
I mean, they wanted the familiar, especiallybeing in a place that can feel very strange to
you.
But now I think consumers are so much moreaware of wellness and the practices and the
(18:43):
options that they are seeking, moreinteresting and indigenous options when they
travel.
So that's new, but I think it's new in A good
way.
Do you agree?
Mariane Akwenye (18:55):
Absolutely, yes.
I think you also find that with food,
when you look at the culinary world, you know,with the tourists before, they wanted to have
specific things that they familiar with thedishes that they could understand, but they
have since evolved into, let's try what isindigenous.
You know, we'll try that.
(19:16):
And I think it's spilling over to all other
experiences and wellness being one of them.
Michelle Saudan (19:22):
It's a good thing.
When you ask the question, Lisa, how do you
tackle that?And I think when we look at African brands
that are doing exceptionally well, I'llreference a lady by the name.
Her brand is I Am Hammam Mat.
And she just, you know, produces shea butter
(19:43):
and gets the whole community involved.
And you see videos of the women in the village
churning that shea butterfly and it's.
She's got millions of followers and, you know,it gets shipped all over the world, across
Africa.
So I think how do we tackle that is first and
foremost knowledge.
(20:03):
Embracing authenticity.
For local people to know that, you know, what
you have is so powerful in its most simplestform.
Yeah. And just embracing that authenticity.
Because sometimes I know with the few brands
in Zimbabwe, where I'm originally from,
they get stuck because we're trying to measureup with La Prairie brand, you know, and say,
(20:28):
is it, you know, the packaging and everythingjust doesn't, if it doesn't look like that,
then it's not good enough.
Lisa Starr (20:34):
Well, we do have to encourage consumers to move beyond that.
And I think people are, they're aware that somuch money, especially in cosmetics and
skincare retailing, so much money is spent onthe message, the packaging, the ads in the
magazines and consumers expecting something tolook like a high end brand from a Western
(20:56):
department store.
And it's not going to look that way fromAfrica.
But the products are pure and authentic andthe money wants to go into the product, not
the packaging.
So that's another sort of learning.
I guess we'll have to cross a barrier.
We'll cross with consumers.
But if you're coming to Africa and you'relooking for authenticity, it's not going to
(21:17):
look like a La Prairie bottle.
Mariane Akwenye (21:19):
Absolutely.
Lisa Starr (21:20):
And there are, there are a number of African cosmetic brands at this point and
skincare brands are there, not from Zimbabwe.
Michelle Saudan (21:28):
There is a brand that is distributing Moringa baobab,
Resurrection Bush tea in Carrefour, if you'refamiliar with the market and you know, they're
doing so well, there is massive potential aswell as from.
Mariane Akwenye (21:47):
Namibia, the Marula oil.
So Marula oil is very high in demand.
And it's one of our biggest exports forcosmetics in its raw form that then goes and,
you know, supplied to big, big beauty brandsin America, in Europe and so on.
Lisa Starr (22:04):
You raise a good point, Marianne.
We have big pharma companies and cosmetic
companies coming into the continent of Africaand extracting ingredients that are indigenous
to you and taking them and using them inproducts elsewhere in the world.
But the locals don't always have access tothat.
I mean, how, how can we change that equation?I'm not even sure there's an easy way.
Mariane Akwenye (22:27):
It's, it's not an easy way.
And again, it's that thing of the locals not
understanding the value in the product thatthey have, but also having the infrastructure
to then manufacture or have the end product,you know, the whole process to the end
product, the capacity is not there.
It's easier to just, you know, take it out inits raw form.
(22:51):
The processing facilities are not available oraccessible or the funding for it is not.
So it's a multi layered issue.
But there are pockets of companies that havestarted to, you know, go head on and develop
and export a complete product, but not at therate that is significantly making inroads.
(23:12):
So it's a complex question and a complexproblem to fix.
And it starts also, you know, it needs thegovernment, the policies to be in place to say
we cannot just extract these raw ingredients.
Maybe put in policies to say when you extracta ton, have a ton locally and put some value
(23:32):
to it as an example.
Because the locals need to understand what the
value is in that raw product or rawingredient.
Michelle Saudan (23:43):
Policymakers, the government need to have a firmer stand on fair trade that
is equal across the board.
Lisa Starr (23:52):
That's a difficult thing to tackle with all the different governments that are
involved for sure, but it's something to thinkabout.
It's just another challenge of which you haveno many.
Beyond what we've discussed, the geography andthe government, what other challenges are
there for developing the wellness industry inAfrica?
Maybe one thing I'll mention would belicensing, right?
(24:16):
I mean, I'm sure many countries don't havelicensing for therapists or training.
So what things are some of the goals you haveto tackle as part of the African Wellness
Initiative?What do you think is the first thing you need
to do?
Mariane Akwenye (24:29):
It's such a multi layered question and problem that there is, because at
every level I believe there is a challenge,you know, to have an organized sort of
training association.
For instance,
what are we, what is our benchmark?What is our,
what training are we going to be giving, as anexample, are we going to give licensing for a
(24:56):
Swedish massage or are we trying to developour own African wellness massage, for a lack
of a better word, who is the custodian ofthat?
So it's so multi layered.
That's why I don't have a single answer to
say, oh, this is a solution to that problem inevery stage and every step.
(25:19):
I think we need to dissect it and see where dowe start to tackle this specific problem.
Whether it's training, whether it's products,whether it's the definition of African
wellness.
Yeah, so many things, very many things,
Michelle.
Michelle Saudan (25:34):
I believe creating a bridge where there's an integration with the
traditional healers associations,
with the wellness spaces.
Because you know, the World Health
Organization has already advocated for theintegration of traditional healers into modern
healthcare.
Most of the countries, for example, Ghana,Nigeria, Zimbabwe, I know, definitely have a
(25:59):
traditional healers association.
So it's being able to have the conversationswith them and as well as our traditional
Westernized spouse and seeing how we canrevere these practices and merge them
together.
Lisa Starr (26:21):
So a lot of this success will rest on you too, getting some help.
Right.
You can't do this alone.
Empowering the future generations and helpingthem understand what's a strategy to do that.
How can you teach the young people like youlearned Marianne when you left as a pilot and
came back and saw the opportunities that wereelsewhere?
(26:43):
How do we make that filter down now?
Mariane Akwenye (26:46):
I think initiatives like these is definitely very critical in that
aspect because we create awareness.
We create because as an example, when westarted with our training institute, grass
root level, taking that young girl who hasn'tfinished school for whatever reason to try and
(27:08):
give her a skill and elevate her.
The backlash was from even her own guardiansor the parents not understanding what this
world is about and thinking what is my childgoing to do?
Because it's not at your traditionalprofessions that everybody, you know, think
that it's better off or so on.
Lisa Starr (27:27):
We have that in the west too.
But yes, for sure.
Mariane Akwenye (27:31):
Yeah. Because of course when a child goes to school or when you know it's
not just for the betterment of that child, isagain the whole community and uplifting sort
of.
It all rests on this one child's shoulders tobetter herself or himself so that the whole
sort of family community that, that rippleeffect.
(27:53):
So if the decision is to go into a world thatis not known or the value of it is not
understood,
then again the support is not there toencourage them to continue and go into that
into that sort of direction.
And that is.
I'm coming from a personal experience, sort of
(28:15):
how I see the industry and how it can evolveso that we can see it from the inside out as
opposed to what is being done and how it lookslike.
So I think,
again, it's platforms like these to get theword out there to understand what it is that
we're doing, what the industry is all about.
(28:36):
And then the other bridge, as Michelle
mentioned, of those that are already withinthe industry, doing it maybe differently, but
not to say that they're different is notworthy.
And merging these two worlds and a.
Michelle Saudan (28:50):
Large one as well, is representation,
you know, so Susie Ellis has the scholarshipfor equity and wellness, which is such a great
step,
you know, so that girl in the village wasgoing to see, you know, another,
you know, woman who looks like her, you know,doing what she loves authentically, is going
(29:15):
to say, wow, you know, if she can, I can it.
Representation makes all the difference.
And in the current, you know, scheme ofthings, it's amazing to see that platforms and
establishments like GWI and many others alikeare taking a stand to be more inclusive.
(29:35):
And when that happens, I think the rest, it'llonly unfold naturally.
Yeah.
Lisa Starr (29:42):
Can you share some of the interesting that you find practices from
around Africa that you think we could bring tothe forefront in wellness beyond what we've
talked about already, like ingredients.
What are some of the routines or rituals thatyou think would be great to segue into
wellness practices?
Michelle Saudan (30:02):
I would.
I'll start off with, you know, in.
In. In, you know, southern Africa, maybe allacross Africa, is the use of sonic
instruments.
We're all familiar with sound baths and gongbaths, but in Africa as well, sound and
vibration was used as a medium to transportpeople, a medium to, you know, to change
(30:25):
energy somatically.
So I think the use of these beautiful sonicinstruments that not many people know of is a
beautiful way to integrate.
They're not difficult to play.
It just needs, you know, to be respected, ofcourse.
But I think those.
The instruments there is Creato Mutwa, who was
(30:47):
a Zulu shaman.
He is late now, rest his soul.
But he spoke about umbilini.
Umbilini.
Now,
in India, we are familiar with kundalini, butdid you know that in Zulu shamanism there is
kumbilini, which is very much the same, thechanneling of energy from your root right to
(31:10):
the crown with the use of breath and certainmovements from the body mechanics.
So I think different breathwork practices.
The San in Namibia, you know, we're in the
Marianne's background, you know, they havesomething called a healing dance, which I was
fortunate to be able to take one of my retreatgroups to go witness last year.
(31:32):
So they have a healing dance and they also usevery powerful breath work as they stomp and
connect with the earth.
So I think, you know, practices like these, I
could go on forever.
Lisa Starr (31:45):
But please do tell us some more.
Those are fascinating.
Mariane Akwenye (31:50):
It's so rich.
It's so,
yeah, it's unlike what the world has seen andexperienced.
And they go into a trance.
The sun people, you know, as they dancing,
they go into a trance and they channel thatand it's just beautiful.
Yeah, go for it.
Sorry.
Michelle Saudan (32:07):
And then you've got the smoking rituals with the Himba women, smoke
baths, you know, there is nothing.
It was amazing.
So, so, so practices like, like that,
you know, being, being planted in the ground.
There is one in the Igbo tribe of Namibi of
(32:29):
Nigeria where they one is planted into theearth.
And it's a beautiful way of,
you know, reconnecting and being ground, whatthe.
Mariane Akwenye (32:41):
West will call grounding, you know, walking barefoot.
They probably immerse you completely.
Lisa Starr (32:46):
And yeah, it's fascinating.
I, it's, it's wonderful that those are being
collected, you know, because they're so spreadout.
I mean, is there a resource for people, maybelisteners, to learn about some of these?
Where, where do you find out what's happeningin the different countries,
you know, at the moment?
Michelle Saudan (33:06):
Lisa, there are a lot of resources, there are a lot of novels, but the
thing is that they are all, you know,widespread.
There isn't one which is collated.
So this is where we come into place and this
is our goal.
And we will start with our quarterlynewsletter and as well as on, on our landing
(33:27):
page, start to add authors, white papers,practices where in video, so mixed media, that
would then collate all of these beautifulpractices, and not just for educational
purposes, but also a theory that one can takeand adapt to their own modern life.
(33:48):
So we'll be sharing a lot of that so peoplecan keep posted on the AWI LinkedIn page.
That's where we'll keep sharing a lot of thiswisdom.
Lisa Starr (33:58):
That's wonderful.
It's fascinating.
Have you had any success working withhospitality brands who might be able to help
carry these messages across a wider area ofAfrica?
Mariane Akwenye (34:10):
I think the interest is there definitely, because now that it is under the
AWI or a formal sort of setting, we aregetting inquiries, people wanting to know and
understand what it is.
It's still early stages But I think soonenough we will definitely open up to those
industries or those brands to connect with usor maybe even tap into whoever's on our
(34:36):
database that we collecting.
Michelle Saudan (34:38):
Yeah, we, we haven't tackled that at Nilo yet, to be honest.
Lisa Starr (34:44):
Another one on your long list.
In addition to your day jobs, of course.
How can listeners support you or get involvedshould they want to?
You've mentioned the LinkedIn page for theAfrican Wellness initiative, so they should go
there and follow that.
What else are some things that we could helpyou do?
Michelle Saudan (35:04):
If one is a practitioner,
a spa manager, just doing anything under theumbrella of wellness on the continent of
Africa, your presence in any form is going toundeniably support the initiative because we
(35:25):
need more of us together.
So a unified Africa and we'll figure out, youknow, where the strengths or where the,
the roots can be connected.
So we're practitioners, we are building the
database spa managers, we are looking atdeveloping the training pillar of the awi.
(35:45):
So just being in touch with you, knowing whatyou're able to, to offer what we can share,
but also knowing how we can support you asIt's a 360 movement,
a hundred percent.
Lisa Starr (35:59):
What Michelle just said, your contact information is on your LinkedIn page
where people could email you if they'd liketo.
And also on the GWI website, I should mentionwhere the initiatives live.
I'm sure your contact information is there.
So let's close with sort of.
I'd like to hear your dream of the future ofAfrican wellness in 10 years.
(36:22):
What will be happening if you're successful?
Michelle Saudan (36:25):
Well, I say when we are successful.
Lisa Starr (36:29):
Thank you.
Very good.
Michelle Saudan (36:31):
I would say, Lisa, it's more of authentic custodians on the forefront
delivering and showcasing.
When you hear Africa,
you think wellness, you think healing, youthink transformation and the custodians who
(36:52):
delivering that, delivering it in a sense thatthere is pride, there is authenticity and
there is.
They are being well compensated and looked
after and being protected.
So for me that is what success would looklike.
All these hidden gems up to the surface, butprotected at the same time.
Mariane Akwenye (37:14):
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree with you more.
The authenticity part, the protection of thecustodians understanding and finally realizing
their value, the custodians that it is not adying craft, that it is brought to the fore
and that the world can experience butresponsibly.
Lisa Starr (37:35):
Well, these are wonderful messages and we so appreciate your time today.
It's fascinating story and you have a big jobahead of you, but I think you're up to it.
The two of you are so passionate about whatyou're doing and we want to help you in the
wellness community bring these practices wewant to help you in the wellness community to
(37:58):
bring these practices to the forefront.
It is a beautiful thing.
I'd like to thank you Mariana Kwenye, managingdirector of the Nomad Group from Namibia, and
Michelle Sadan, founder and facilitator ofAmanzi well Being, based in Zimbabwe and
Dubai, but both citizens of the world, butpassionate citizens of Africa first.
(38:21):
So wonderful story.
Thank you so much for sharing with us today.
Mariane Akwenye (38:25):
Thank you, Lisa. We appreciate the opportunity and the platform.
Thank you.
Lisa Starr (38:30):
You're welcome.
Michelle Saudan (38:31):
Thank you so much, Lisa.
Lisa Starr (38:32):
You are welcome.
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