August 14, 2024 • 59 mins
Amina Sheik Mohamed is a dedicated advocate for health equity and cultural inclusivity. Her incredible work led her to be awarded one of Prebys Foundation’s inaugural Leadership Awards. As the Founder and Director of the Refugee Health Unit at UC San Diego, Amina has been instrumental in championing initiatives that empower immigrant communities in San Diego County. In this episode, she joins host Grant Oliphant to explore the intricate connections between community health and cultural identity.
Amina is committed to improving positive health outcomes for the refugee community in San Diego by promoting health equity and making sure that community members have a voice in how their needs are met. She shares her experiences in developing collaborative programs that not only address immediate health needs but also foster long-term well-being and agency. Amina emphasizes the importance of trust and relationship-building in healthcare, advocating for systems that genuinely reflect the needs and values of the communities they serve.
This episode examines how we can bridge gaps in healthcare access through cultural competence and community engagement. Learn how Amina Sheik Mohamed is leading efforts to create a healthier, more inclusive future in San Diego County.
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This is a production of the Prebys Foundation.
Hosted by Grant Oliphant
Co-Hosted by Crystal Page
Co-produced by Crystal Page and Adam Greenfield
Engineered by Adam Greenfield
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Grant Oliphant (00:10):
Hey, Crystal.
Crystal Page (00:11):
Hi, Grant. How are you?
Grant Oliphant (00:13):
I am great. We're having a conversation
today with Amina Sheik Mohamed,that I think people are going to
love. She's an extraordinaryhuman, you know her well, and I
think our audience is all goingto want to know her well, if
they don't already, after theylisten to her.
Crystal Page (00:32):
You know, I knew of Amina, but when, she won one
of our leaders in belongingawards, you see how gentle she
is, but still an incrediblystrong leader. What are you
hoping to get out of theconversation?
Grant Oliphant (00:47):
Well, I think I'm hoping to get a conversation
about what it looks like to beworking with one of America's
most vulnerable populationsright now, and what that means
for San Diego, why it'simportant, why it's important
for the country, and and howthere's a promising path
forward. I think it's anincredibly helpful conversation.
We should probably say a wordabout Amina and and who she is
(01:11):
and what she does. She's thedirector and founder of the
Refugee Health Unit at UC SanDiego Center For Community
Health. She's also an incrediblypassionate and gifted leader who
works on the front lines of thebarriers to health equity that
face immigrant and refugeecommunities, and I think what we
have seen, which is why she wonthe leaders in belonging award
(01:33):
was that she is a consistentvoice for uplifting the voices,
perspective, and needs of thosepopulations.
Crystal Page (01:41):
Yeah. And I think Amina, in particular, the way in
which she does that, a lot ofthe time is behind the scenes.
So I'm gonna be curious in yourconversation with her, you know,
how is she building connectionsacross difference? And I'm just
really curious in terms of herleadership role in these
(02:02):
communities and uplifting thevoice. I think, in the bio you
just read, it talks about herown personal experience, so I'm
excited to hear this leaderwho's leading from her own
personal experience.
Grant Oliphant (02:13):
Well, I think I think what we're going to see in
this conversation is how aperson, navigates a very
complicated terrain with passionand equanimity, and manages to
bring a great deal of, I canjust call it sanity and kindness
(02:36):
to the work that she's doing.There's a great model here for
all of us in how we are workingour way through complicated
times. So we should probablyjust dive in.
Crystal Page (02:48):
Let's dive in.
Grant Oliphant (02:48):
And listen to the interview, and then talk
about it at the back end.
Crystal Page (02:51):
Here we go.
Grant Oliphant (02:56):
Amina Sheik Mohamed, it's so great to have
you here on the program. Thankyou for being here.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (03:00):
Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.
Grant Oliphant (03:02):
It really is a pleasure. I wanna start by
honoring the fact that you werea recipient of the Leaders in
Belonging award, that the PrebysFoundation recently gave out,
and we were delighted to honoryou for the work that you've
done in health equity, and alsoworking with refugees in San
Diego. It's an extraordinaryportfolio of work that you have
(03:26):
put together. You're incrediblymodest about it, and part of
what I'm going to try and do inthis conversation is draw you
out a little bit to talk aboutwhy the work is important. I
should also note that shortlyafter you received our award,
you received a similarrecognition from the Irvine
Foundation for statewideleadership in, in these issues.
(03:49):
I suppose what I wanna start byasking you is what was it like
for somebody who is as quiet andmodest as you to suddenly be
showered with that kind ofrecognition?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (04:00):
I'm very honored, with that with that
with both awards, and it shows,it really shows attention that
the community needs. So thisaward is not so much about me
personally, and it's more aboutthe community and the work and
the services that are needed. Soshedding the light on those
(04:21):
communities, refugee communitiesstatewide and San Diego as well,
it really shows, it's timely.It's timely, and it shows the
support and the, you know,acknowledgement that is that has
been missing for a long time.
Grant Oliphant (04:35):
So the timeliness of the work, I think,
is a subject I'll want to comeback to later because that cuts
both ways as you know, and I'mcurious how you experience that,
but we'll we'll come back tothat. For right now, I'd love to
ask you how you came to do thiswork. Let's talk a little bit
about what the work is first,and then what your path into
(04:58):
doing it was. So can youdescribe for our listeners
exactly what it is that you do?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (05:04):
Yeah. I am, the founding director of UC San
Diego Center For CommunityHealth Refugee Health Unit, and
our unit was in response it wascreated for the response of the
community gaps and needs. So wewere based in City Heights and,
(05:24):
working with refugeecommunities, it was, like, to
make sure that what is reallywhere are the gaps, and how can
we, as an institution, UC SanDiego, support, you know, and
and and be part of the movementsand and and and with refugee
communities. So, what myleadership has been is to really
(05:45):
support the ethnic ledorganizations, who are doing
amazing work frontline, tosupport with, like, technical
assistant training support anduplifting the work that they do
in a higher level of of,publication and, you know,
report data. There's so manydifferent missing focus areas
(06:09):
that we have.
So one of my initial very broadmoments has been creating,
establishing the refugee,communities coalition, which is
brings the ethnic communityleaders, ethnic led community
leaders together in one place.So they have a common goal. They
(06:29):
have, shared vision, and theyhave shared resources as well.
Grant Oliphant (06:35):
I think that's an extraordinary piece of
community leadership by the way.When I Early on when I came to
town, I met with you and thegroup, and the fact that there
was a coalition that representedthe various refugee communities
in San Diego was tremendouslyhelpful, and I imagine is
(06:55):
tremendously helpful for thegroup. As, for for the sake of
folks who are listening who maynot understand why in the health
space or more generally, thereare special issues that confront
refugees. Can you explain alittle bit about what it means
to do health equity work forthem? Why in a in a town rich
(07:18):
with, medical resources andhealth care resources, why is
this important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (07:22):
Yeah. Health equity is, important in
so many different communities.It's important in communities of
color. It's important in lowincome communities, and we are
part of that. Refugee are notdifferent from any of those
communities.
So we're we're counted underwe're under the communities of
community of color. We live inmost of them are when they
(07:46):
immigrated here, they are theycame here as refugees, they live
in a low income communities.And, their income is not high
level income. So even thoughhealth equity is in general,
like, focus, with communitiesfacing even more, you know,
like, leaving those areasenvironmentally, there's a lot
(08:06):
of, issues, and they there'sit's gonna be part they're part
of that community, right, justthe general community that we we
wanna shed the light on. Inaddition to that, there's
language, cultural barriers.
Sense of belonging is not there.I know this is, like, the word
that was focused on that. Soit's like when you come here,
there's just a lot of barriers,you know, that because of the
(08:29):
environment and where refugeesare placed, it's gonna be. And
in addition to that, then thelanguage, you know, access to
cultural competency, language tocultural responsive. There's a
lot of issues in that whereaccess is not the same for
everybody.
Grant Oliphant (08:43):
Right. And so access to institutions that
people who are native to SanDiego or native to the US might
take for granted, for refugeesare not obvious. And so you're
describing you're helping themnavigate language barriers,
cultural barriers, which arevery real in the healthcare
space.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (09:02):
Yep.
Grant Oliphant (09:04):
And even understanding standards of care
here and the approach tomedicine here. So you're helping
folks navigate all of that.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (09:11):
Yes. Our our organizations, the coalition
member organizations arenavigating through that process
to help the communities. Andthese are we're not talking
about only new arrivals. We'retalking about the people who
have stayed here. So access tojobs.
Right? Like, employment is hard.Economic opportunities are
harder. So, basically, all thethings, you know, housing and so
(09:35):
on, the social, like we cannothave complete health until all
of those areas are uplifted andand there's resources enough for
the community.
Grant Oliphant (09:44):
What has surprised you, if anything,
about doing this work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (09:50):
In a what way?
Grant Oliphant (09:52):
Well, has there been anything as you've as
you've worked with the refugeecommunity on health access and
health equity issues that thathas been a major learning for
you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (10:06):
I think, yeah. There has been, I think
doing this work has beendifficult for a while for a long
time. And I think with COVID,people started to understand
more. So it became like wedidn't have to explain so much
anymore. It became like theproblem that everybody was
(10:29):
facing.
Grant Oliphant (10:30):
Right. So let's talk a little bit about how you
came to do the work. I'mcurious, have you had personal
experiences that helped shapeyour wanting to do this work in
the first place?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (10:43):
Yeah. My work has started, I wanted to be
in the health care sector, butin a in a way of, like, working
in clinics and kind of seeingthe patients when they were
sick. Right? So doing that, Ihad to explain diabetes, what
diabetes was, and hypertension.And I noticed the community did
not even have education aboutthat or didn't even know what
(11:07):
they were diagnosed with.
So that's what kinda led me tocome out of the clinics and go
into prevention. So I went toprevention, community health
education, and so on, and then Iwas like, no, that's not enough.
You know? It's not abouteducating the community, but
it's about access. Right.
It's about, the environment thatthey live. Do they have the
(11:28):
resources? Right, resources infront of, like, where they live
or, you know, close enough.Right? So, when I switched to
that, then now I'm in a positionto think about system level
changes.
And it's not about really evenaccessing that, but it's like,
how do we make those systemschange? And my focus right now
is, to work with variousdifferent stakeholders to make
(11:52):
sure that they understand theneed of the refugee community,
and, to make system changesystem level change for for them
and for other, communities thatare facing similar.
Grant Oliphant (12:03):
Yeah. I wanna I wanna talk about those systems.
Before we get to that though,let me push, on this question of
a personal connection because Ithink so often people who are
drawn to working with vulnerablepopulations of any kind or with
healthcare issues in particular,come into that work by some
(12:27):
sometimes by personal connectionwith it. And I'm just curious
about you and your upbringingand your your your background
further back. Did that alsoinform for you, what what why
this space mattered to you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (12:45):
Yeah. So in a different level, like, early
on, obviously, my family and us,you know, and and also my
community. So I'm not, up tonow, I'm part of the community
that I serve. So it's more of,like, being in that community. I
don't have to be, you know,working hours, like, in a way to
(13:06):
find out like, I could be in themosque, and I will have a
problem to handle from, youknow, work perspective, or I
could be in a store, and someonemight tell me about a problem in
the community.
So I am part of the communitythat I serve, so that's
something I carry around withme. And, you know, helping my
family and other communityneighbors and everyone, in the
beginning of my career, at apersonal level as well as work,
(13:31):
it has been it's hard to evenactually, differentiate, you
know, when I'm working and whenI'm not working, to be honest
with you. Because when you arepart of that community, you're
committed to be a part of thatcommunity.
Grant Oliphant (13:44):
How do you define that community?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (13:46):
The community is, community is
Grant Oliphant (13:49):
I mean, when you speak about your community, just
for the sake of our listeners.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (13:52):
The refugee community in general, but, like
and and their needs have becomemy part part of me too. So
that's the community I'm talkingabout. And then later on, I
think, in in general, when I'mtalking about system changes and
other things, the personalthings that I see is being
(14:12):
different, you know, just beingdifferent. Like right now,
wearing a scarf, coming into,like, you know, just in a space,
I feel that.
So I wanna make sure otherpeople, especially younger
people who are growing up herenow, have access to
opportunities, can dream about,you know, getting awards and
being part of the society in SanDiego. So it's personal for me
(14:36):
because I feel I went throughthat. I wanna make sure that
they also have access to. Sosome things are more like, yes,
I went through it as a work or,you know, things like that. And
then also the kind of the workof prevention and kind of access
care and all of those things iswhat I witnessed.
People going in with notranslation in the health
(14:57):
system, you know, like, not justlittle things, right, that we
take for granted, not knowinghow to complete. Like, you
missed one paper of submitting,and you might be not even
getting that health insurance orsomething like that. You know?
Grant Oliphant (15:12):
And you saw this happen to people you knew, and
so you wanted to prevent that
Amina Sheik Mohamed (15:16):
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (15:16):
You know, I think it's I think it's
fascinating what you were sayingabout being part of the
community that you're servingbecause it does turn it into a
247 job, and mission whereyou're always on call. And I'm
curious to know the thesepersonal experiences and
(15:40):
personal glimpses of thechallenges that exist, and the
personal experience of ityourself. How has that shaped
your approach to doing the workthat you're doing now? Because I
think there are lessons therefor others who want to work with
community, and I'm just curiouswhat how how having been in it,
(16:01):
and still being in it, shapesthe way you approach the work.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (16:08):
It takes a commitment. It takes a
commitment. It takes a longtime, and it may feel something
that's, never ending in a way.You know, it's kinda ongoing.
Mhmm. But, we have to behopeful, and there has been
some, you know, obviously, somesuccesses. Like, you just talked
about the coalition. That'ssomething we didn't have 10
(16:28):
years ago. Right?
That's something we didn't have8 years ago, but now we do, and
now what's next? So I think it'sbuilding the foundation and and
building it more and more andmore. I do wanna clarify one
thing I said earlier. Like,being part of the community, I
don't wanna say only you have tobe part of the community to
work. Right?
Grant Oliphant (16:47):
Right. Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (16:47):
It's just it takes a little bit more when
you are in that community andyou're seeing. For example,
like, the example that I usedof, it's not 8 to 5. Right?
Like, it could be 7 or 8 or, youknow, I'm not on call, but,
like, just being part of thecommunity, you see it more. And
you might be neighbors with, youknow, that you're witnessing,
(17:09):
you're hearing about it. So it'snot you're not waiting for that
news to come through the news.Right? Or or someone else
doesn't have to just alwaysreach out to you, but you're
getting it immediately.
And the good thing about that isyou might respond quick quickly
for that to to you know, sosomething doesn't have to, last
longer. Like, you could dosomething about it. Be
(17:30):
responsive.
Grant Oliphant (17:31):
Yeah. I think that's well said. I'm I'm
curious. We often, you know, wesometimes ask, about how faith
comes into play for people andthe work that they do, and, you
mentioned the mosque. So howdoes it come to into play for
you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (17:49):
Spiritually and faith is super important,
for the work I do, and,personally for me, like, I feel
like that is some of the things,you know, being grateful and
just there's a lot of differentways that it shows up, giving
back and all of those things issomething that, you know, we we
(18:10):
are feeling, part of thereligion. And sometimes it's I
know people think it'sdisconnected from, access or,
like, even treatment andeverything, but really a lot of
people go to their mosque to getsupport system. Right? It's it's
a big support system forcommunities. And, one thing that
(18:34):
we're more hopeful, and I thinkit's not only mosque, but
churches and, you know,different faith leaders to get
involved is to make sure thatthere's, connection to,
resources.
Right. And for example oneexample is, like, mental health.
Right? So sometimes mentalhealth is connected to, like,
going out to your mosque andseeking some support. And so
(18:57):
some of the things that we thinkis to make sure that those
resources are available at themosque in addition to, you know,
community centers and others.
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (19:06):
So connecting them where people are and where
people can
Amina Sheik Mohamed (19:09):
Worship. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (19:10):
Now you, you work with people of all refugees
of all faiths And all kinds ofbackgrounds, and inevitably
there are differences that feelmore important or more urgent
than others, and we're certainlyliving through a cultural moment
where those get exaggerated orhyped. And I'm curious what part
(19:33):
of your role in helping peoplenavigate the health system or
just the community in general isalso to play bridge builder. How
does that come into the playinto play for you in your work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (19:47):
Yeah. The bridge building is, so for
example, like, right now with,like, just the example that you
have for different religions,different things. I don't have
to be in a different religion tounderstand, but it's really
being cultural humility. Right?Being there for the people,
understanding what they're goingthrough.
And each, luckily with thecoalition, we have a specific
(20:10):
focus on each community is theirown, right? But we know
spiritually there's a lot of of,like, people are, like,
connected, and there's, likejust really, like because they
have the same shared experience,oftentimes religion is not even
brought up. It's like we have wewe're missing language, you
know, like, or, like, we needthese resources or that. It's
(20:32):
not talked about a lot ofthings. Everybody believes in
their own.
But, through the COVID time, wewere able to connect with
churches and mosques and so on.So, like, just that way. But
bridge builder is superimportant, to connect because
there's disconnect, as you know
Grant Oliphant (20:49):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (20:49):
In resources, plus even
connections, you know, in thecommunity. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (20:55):
Is it getting is that process of building bridges
getting harder or easier, wouldyou say?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (21:03):
I think it's getting better. I think
there's more hopeful, sinceCOVID. It's been getting better,
and I think, one good example isright now, I'm sitting with you
here, and I don't think thatwould have been possible before.
You know, in terms of, like,funders were so disconnected
from the work, you know, like,the community.
Grant Oliphant (21:17):
Yeah. Yeah.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (21:17):
So you came to the coalition and I'm here
with you now. So that is that'swhat gives me hope. It's
changing.
Grant Oliphant (21:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that, and and, of
course we would wanna connectwith you. You're doing really
important valuable work for thecommunity, so I think, I just
wanna reflect that back to you.Yeah.
I would I'm curious, though,about the dynamic that's
(21:50):
happening in the broader globaland US culture, of people
seeming to divide into campsand, a, you know, a global level
of vitriol, directed at refugeesand immigrants, not just in this
(22:12):
country, but all around theworld. And I I'm curious how you
and the coalition experiencethat and whether you think
that's getting better or worse?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (22:27):
It's, I don't think it's in that one,
like, I think it's alwaysemerging. Refugee issues are
always emerging. So as you know,we just few months ago or
several months ago, we just hada lot of refugees come through
the border.
Grant Oliphant (22:41):
Yeah. Huge numbers.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (22:43):
Yeah. Huge numbers. So it's always up and
down. And something that thecoalition is doing, and also we
hope that other, partners andfunders and everyone else can
hopefully be is beingresponsive, like shifting. You
know, we all do strategicplannings.
We all do other things, but it'sreally, like, what is important
at the moment. Right? Like, whatis really important at the
(23:04):
moment? And I think, the borderissues and refugees coming in
and, you know, resources, it'sjust we have to be more
responsive and and and see theneeds of, like good example has
been the flood right now thathappened in San Diego. You know?
Grant Oliphant (23:19):
Huge flood.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (23:19):
Yeah. We have Yeah. And it's not all San
Diego. It was particular, youknow, areas. And it's like, how
do we shift resources andattention and everything at that
kind of level?
And and refugees are exactly thesame thing. Right? Like, it's
that kind of flood that justhappened. It's not planned. It's
not something you added in yourstrategic planning.
It's not something that you canget ready and stand at the
(23:42):
border because your border or orother places. You don't know
when they're gonna arrive,what's gonna happen, and how
what is the numbers like. Soit's for us to really make sure
that we're shifting, resourcesand and the plans that we had on
being responsive and beingflexible.
Grant Oliphant (23:58):
Yeah. When you're asked by people, and I
know you are, about, why itmatters, you know, I think I
think there there are folks whoare sympathetic, but who and who
get the humanitarian message,but they they think we don't
(24:19):
have the resources or they thinkwe should be focusing on other
things. When people ask you whyis it important for our society
to respond to refugee needs, howdo you help them understand why
it's important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:35):
I help those that understand, those
that are willing to understand.Y Because I think there's
Grant Oliphant (24:39):
Starts there.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:40):
Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like I think there are
people who, no matter what, youknow, it's like
Grant Oliphant (24:45):
You're not gonna get thrown. But they're probably
not asking you. Or if they
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:49):
They are. They could. They could ask,
Yeah. They could ask, but still,like, not that it's not gonna
process through them. Right? SoI don't wanna put energy in
there.
Grant Oliphant (24:58):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:58):
But we will put energy where, there's
momentum and there's someresponses happening. And I
think, I do wanna acknowledge, Ithink the larger community
understands what that is. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (25:11):
I think San Diego is, very aware of and
understanding of that message.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (25:17):
For sure.
Grant Oliphant (25:17):
But but how do you help folks who are on the
fence, if you will then,understand why it's important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (25:28):
I wanna tell them that being a refugee
and leaving your country is notsomething you plan, it's not a
choice. You know? And and Ithink, some of the things that
kind of brought this issue, youknow, this matter, like, home is
COVID. We just had to shifteverything around to do like,
you know, to respond to that,and the floods that happened or
(25:51):
an earthquake and something likethat.
So I'll compare to that. Youknow. Just a matter of, like, in
minutes or whatever, you have toleave your home, go somewhere
else. That is something that weshould be open to, you know, you
don't know who's gonna be next,you don't know if you're next,
so just think about yourself.There's not a group that is
(26:11):
granted to be a refugee forever.
You know?
Grant Oliphant (26:14):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (26:14):
So, like, you could be it you could feel
similar. You could face similarsimilar, as refugees being in
San Diego or elsewhere. So justreally, like, don't take for
granted is what I would say.
Grant Oliphant (26:30):
I think that's thank you. And that's why I was
pressing you on it because Ithink it's that's such a
powerful answer, and the floodmetaphor is actually a really
good metaphor, because asrecently as a couple of weeks
ago, for all I know right now,we still have a 1,000 people
(26:51):
living in hotels trying to getback to the homes that they
suddenly had to vacate becauseof the flood in Southeast San
Diego. Refugee situations areanalogous, but people are
displaced not just from theirhome, but from their country.
And to your point, it's not alark, It's not a and it's not
even necessarily a choice. It'ssomething that's imposed upon
(27:14):
them maybe without evenforethought or expectation.
So thank you for that, and Ijust the the gentle but forceful
way in which you stated that Ithink is is helpful in
delivering that message, and itneeds to be heard. You know, I
think it's it's a core elementof our understanding each other
as human beings. So what are youlet's let's turn for a moment to
(27:38):
what you're excited about. Whatare you most excited about in
terms of the work that you'redoing? You, you know, you've
gotten these recognitions,that's wonderful, but you are as
usual, very self effacing aboutit. And and yes, it does bring
resources to the work, but whatexcites you right now about the
(27:59):
work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (28:00):
What excites me is really the work
we're doing with the coalition.One specific, project that we're
doing with the coalition rightnow is, we created a policy
council that kind of comestogether, you know, and did
their own research with from thecommunity to come up with
(28:21):
priorities of policy. Like, we Italked to you earlier about
system changes. Until we changethose systems, you know, nothing
is gonna happen. So thecoalition is working right now
with policy priorities that aregonna come out soon.
And those policy that's the onesthat they wanna drive on. In the
past, we were able to supportother projects that are kind of,
you know, created or initiatedby other groups, but right now
(28:45):
it's their own they're gonna bedrivers. So for me it's more
about that narrative change ofrefugee leading the way. And you
know, and so in all of the workthat we're doing, it's more like
how do we make sure thatsomething has to change and, you
know, people who are at thetables that are we're like I'm
(29:08):
going to right now, it'schanging, right? Like like the
example I give you about thisinterview and all of those
things, it's because we see thechange.
We see the change coming, and,it's something that we worked
for a long time, but we wannamake sure that it's gonna be, a
lasting one. You know, it's notlike just trending of, like,
(29:28):
let's highlight refugees rightnow and so on. So I think there
are some changes that'shappening and we want to make
sure that youth leaders,communities of color, refugees
are in a leadership position,and leading. Leading, they have
the solution, they know whatthey're doing, and it's like
(29:48):
letting them have that space andand and changing that, you know,
from the past. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (29:54):
I think it's incredibly important and
powerful that you have a policycouncil that, because that is
key to changing any system.Systems change as a phrase often
feels like jargon to people whoare listening to it, but I think
what you're driving at is verypractical changes, in how
(30:16):
systems work. So you alluded toa couple earlier, but for
example, the availability ofpeople who speak in multiple
languages at healthcarefacilities would be a system, a
change to a system that needs tohappen. Greater awareness around
cultural needs of uniquepopulations or discrete
populations would be another.But what other types of changes
(30:39):
are you seeking in the systemsthat you're addressing?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (30:45):
Mental health is another focus of ours.
Mental health, it's educationsystem. I also there's a lot of,
you know, changes in thatemployment sector, housing for
sure. And in the past, we usedto see, like, some of those
changes coming through and thecommunity being part of it, but
(31:06):
because they were not drivingthat change or they were not the
lead of that, It was not, youknow, they were kind of
supporting and not knowing whereit ends sometimes. So right now,
this is their initiative, youknow, and they're leading.
So I think that's what really Idon't know how far it's gonna go
and what's gonna happen, but I'mhopeful that, something good
will come out. And it's based ontheir thinking and and and, you
(31:31):
know, they are the initiators.And it's like and it's mostly
youth, actually, who you have
Grant Oliphant (31:36):
not done. Well leadership coming from the
people who are most affected isprobably the gold standard of
changing systems.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (31:43):
Exactly. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (31:44):
And that's what you're describing.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (31:45):
Yes. Yes. They had communic like, they had
community, focused, You know,they met with community leaders.
And coming up with a priority asfar as, like, refugee focused
for policy is not that easy. Wehave a lot of barriers, but they
had to come together and say,what are the top?
You know, obviously, we have alot, but, like, what can we
more, like, focus on for thenext 3 years or so? And I think
(32:09):
that is something I'm excitedand I wanna support, and I also
want our, partners and otherpeople to know about it when
it's out and support it more.
Grant Oliphant (32:18):
I I since you bring this up, I I wasn't
planning on asking about this,although I should have been.
What are you seeing in terms ofthe mental health issues and
behavioral health issues in therefugee community? You know I
think I was reading an articlethis morning about how anxiety
is affecting, every age group inthe United States, and this is
(32:41):
clearly behavioral healthissues, challenges around
wellness, and mental wellnessare are afflicting youth in
particular in American society,but they're being felt broadly
throughout the culture. What doyou hear from the refugee
community about this?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (32:58):
Yeah. What I hear and I what I see is,
mental health is is a big issuein all communities, but for our
community, particularly refugeecommunities, it's more
affecting, because there's a lotof stigma around it, right? So a
lot of people maybe not gettingthe care that they need in a
matter of time. And the otherone is like, you know, the youth
(33:24):
that you're talking about areleaving. We have American youth
and like refugee, you know,whatever country we have, the
parents are a different culture,so it's like you have 2 cultures
in in in one home.
You know? So there's a lot ofthings that are, you have 2
different language. Like, someparents may not even, like, you
know, understand their commonlanguage might be English, so
(33:46):
they might not speak, you know,the like so there's a lot of
different levels that mentalhealth is affecting the
community. But definitely it'smore about knowing early enough
and resources. And then theother one you said anxiety and
all of those things.
Really what brings those anxietyis, the stress level of, you
know, not having good jobs, youknow, not having low or having
(34:12):
low paying jobs and not havingaccess to resources. It's going
to be something that bringsanxiety to communities. And
then, just thinking truly, likeeveryday thinking about poverty
and all of these things, youknow, it's just that's one way,
but the other ways are morelike, stigma and culturally, you
know, not understanding thesystems and things like that. So
it's a little bit harder Right.For refugee communities.
Grant Oliphant (34:35):
Is there a is there a magic formula for
helping people overcome stigmaaround this to ask for help?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (34:44):
I think we're getting there, but we're
not there quietly until wechange the workforce. We need to
have workforce that isunderstanding the community, you
know. We need to have, therapyand other people, you know,
mental health staff member andworkforce that is reflecting to
the community that we serve, andand we're not there yet.
Grant Oliphant (35:05):
You know, in our conversations with young people
in the refugee community, one ofthe things we hear is that they
have, the added burden or roleof being caregivers to parents,
translators for parents,Translators is a big issue
often. Cultural navigators forparents. You never think about
(35:27):
that, unless, I guess, you're init and or seeing it. Do you
think that by and large, the thechildren of refugees that you're
that you're meeting and seeingare navigating that well, or do
they need extra attention aswell?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (35:47):
I mean, they're doing that part of, you
know, it's giving back to yourcommunity, it's giving back to
your parents, but I think, totake that burden off them, we
need a system. We need a systemthat will hire so we don't have
to, you know, go through ourchildren for translations.
Right? Like, they could be thechildren, and we we will have
(36:07):
that. So, it's getting a littlebetter, but in the past, we had
a lot of youth, you know, goinginto the hospitals and
translating.
And and, unfortunately,providers were excited to say,
you're doing a good job ofhelping your mom, but that
should not be. That should bethe children.
Grant Oliphant (36:23):
Yeah. Let's talk about joy for a moment. Yeah.
Yeah. I think, you know, so muchof how you come across when I've
seen you in communitygatherings, and, just in talking
with you 1 on 1 is, yeah, you'vegot a very realistic view of the
challenges that people face, andyou're clear eyed about
(36:46):
everything we've just beendiscussing, which can feel heavy
and dark sometimes.
But that's not who you are. Imean, who you are is joyful and
upbeat and positive. So I'mcurious, first of all, where
does that come from? And what isgiving you joy right now in the
work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (37:05):
Yeah. I wanna say that that's not only
me. I think that is honestly thecommunity that I see always.
It's like, yes, we do wanna talkabout challenges, and this has
been the topic right now, butthen we are also fun,
resiliency, loving people thatare very grateful. You know?
So I think they're very like,that's where it comes from. It's
(37:28):
like being grateful for what youhave and also having a dream and
vision. You know, like, thingsmight not come your way right
now, but it will happen Andevery step counts. So for me,
it's more like, yes, you know,we might not have the things
that we want or see the things,but then like celebrating little
(37:50):
changes, celebrating every stepthat is towards that process and
also, not like, not having, forexample, you know, with the
coalition right now, the thingsthat we've builded, it's like we
don't we wanna build up thatmore, right, so we're not going
back or the next generation thatcome in or anything like that,
(38:11):
they don't have to start allover. So building that
foundation, you know, moving onand building that one and and
having, being grateful andhaving a vision.
Grant Oliphant (38:22):
Yeah. I love that I love that, combination of
gratitude, dreaming, vision,resilience, all important
concepts. Are there are therepeople in your journey who have
stood out for you as examples ofthat?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (38:39):
Mhmm. Yes. Yes. I think I wouldn't be here
if it was not those people that,you know, invited me to spaces
and acknowledged, people who aremissing at spaces and called
out. Right?
So it's not 1 or 2, it's a lotof different people. And, and
that's one way of helping.People think always about
(39:02):
resources and money and all ofthose things, but it's really
the connections that matters,you know, or inviting people to
spaces or even encouragement tosay, you can do it, you know,
even though you feel you don'tbelong there belonging. You
belong there, you know. And andand I think, there and and
luckily, there's there's enoughpeople in San Diego who are
(39:27):
doing phenomenal job about that.
Grant Oliphant (39:30):
You find San Diego to be a welcoming
community in general?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (39:36):
Yes. You know, it depends on who and I
feel like I'm around thosepeople.
Grant Oliphant (39:40):
It's like any community. Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (39:42):
I feel like I'm around those people, but
there there have been spaces youfeel not welcomed.
Grant Oliphant (39:49):
Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (39:50):
But I think we're kind of focusing on the
positive end of it right now.So, yeah, there is, definitely
yeah. There's there's, there's alot of positive around and then
there's negative, but I think wewanna attract to the positive.
Grant Oliphant (40:05):
Yeah. Great. The, the foundation, the Prebys
Foundation believes in a visionof community wellness as you
know, that, is really centeredon the capacity of every person
in the community to have theirown sense of purpose, to feel
(40:26):
like they've got opportunity tosucceed, and to really feel also
like they belong in thatcommunity. So it's this for us,
it's this combination ofpurpose, opportunity, and
belonging. If people have those,then the community that they're
part of thrives, we believe, andin the absence of those, it's
(40:49):
difficult for community tothrive because individuals
aren't thriving.
Does that resonate for thecoalition and for the work that
you all are doing? And and howdoes it translate for your
mission?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (41:04):
Definitely, it does, translate directly. And
I wanna give a shout out toPrebys Foundation for really
thinking about those highlights,right? Like, it's like you
cannot have complete well-beingwithout feeling belonging. The
opportunities are what we talkedabout, it's all access and
opportunities, right? Like, so,it's really all interconnected,
(41:28):
all the things that we'retalking about.
So really, for somebody to have,a complete well-being, we have
to make sure there is enoughwork that has been done. And I
think belonging is is is a verygood example. I haven't heard a
lot of people talk aboutbelonging, so I was really
amazed when I heard thefoundation going after, you
(41:49):
know, like that focus, and it'sit's, I wanna say
congratulations for being, kindof shedding the light on that.
Grant Oliphant (41:57):
Yeah. Well, thank you. But more importantly,
again, to reflect it back toyou, thank you for being the
embodiment of that. What do youthink, people what would be
helpful for people to know abouthow San Diego can step more into
being a community of belonging?If we really wanna be that, and
(42:19):
and your answer can be aboutstrengths or weaknesses, it can
be anything.
But if we really wanna be acommunity of belonging, what
what would you hope San Diegoand San Diegans would do? Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (42:30):
Let's go with the strength. I think, it's
really individually should seewhat they can do to make people
feeling welcome. And this startsfrom getting holding the door
for the elevator for and otherthings, but individually, we
(42:57):
should be thinking about whatcan myself, me, what can I do to
make that happen? And I thinkthat level is that starts there,
and then it goes up to, like,foundations and other partners
and other groups and, you know,as institutions. Right?
But I think individually there'sa lot that can be contributed,
and and, that is someone who maynot a inviting them to different
(43:23):
meetings and spaces that they'renot there. So it's really
important, belonging, and Ithink people should understand
more.
Grant Oliphant (43:31):
I think there's something hugely powerful about
what you just said, you know, ifanybody reflects on an
experience they've had, andeverybody has had them in their
lives, they may not acknowledgethem, but Mhmm. Everybody has
had them, where you're in acontext and you don't feel like
people see you, or you don'tfeel like people hear you. It's
(43:54):
a miserable feeling. You know,it's a sad and lonely feeling,
and what you're describing is acommunity that doesn't let
anybody feel that way, that as amatter of course, people feel
like they're seen and feel likethey're heard. Is that a fair
description of your vision of ofinclusion or belonging in this
(44:15):
community?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (44:16):
Yes. Yes. Especially if someone is not
like I think spaces that thosepeople are walking into, they
might not see people that looklike them. Mhmm. It could be
even a workplace.
Right? Like
Grant Oliphant (44:26):
Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (44:27):
It could be like you might feel like, you
don't belong there. Oftentimes,we feel we don't belong to
spaces, but how do you make surethat space is a good experience,
right, if you even try it out,like, to feel that you wanna
come back again.
Grant Oliphant (44:41):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (44:41):
And I think that's the individual level
plus, you know, it could be,like, also an institution. But
there's really, like, what canwe do to make sure that we're,
making sure people who alreadytried out are having good
experience to come back to thatspace and come back. And then
the ones that are not there areable to come in.
Grant Oliphant (44:58):
Yeah. So some of the listeners of this podcast
are, leaders in healthcare. Theycertainly can, are familiar with
some of the takeaways from aninterview like this, because
they are wrestling with theseissues, and you're helping a
very important institution dothat, and actually the whole
(45:18):
community through the coalitionto do that. Other people who
listen to this are individualsworking on all kinds of
different things in San Diegoand and across the country. For
them, if they want to accomplishwhat you just said and and help
contribute to a community wherepeople feel seen and heard,
(45:40):
What's a simple thing they cando?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (45:44):
Try to connect with that person. Try to
say something about asking themsomething they are comfortable,
you know, sharing about theirfood and what they like. Or even
even if you're a doctor, you cancome into the room asking, you
know, like, something that'smaking you connect to to to that
individual. And I think thatrelationship, it's, you know, it
(46:07):
builds from there. So I thinkanybody can start a conversation
nicely and connection, and thatwill be welcoming instead of,
like, something else that theymight ask, like, you know.
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (46:20):
Yeah. Amina, we're about at time, and before
we wrap up, I wanna ask youwhat's next on your agenda. You
know, what do you think youwanna work on next, either
through the coalition or throughyour health equity work? Is
there a next mountain to climbfor you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (46:40):
I feel like that's always something, right,
we're working on. I think, rightnow, just really making sure,
through through the work of thecoalition, we build it up
workforce. Really, that's likecommunity health worker,
behavior health specialist, and,you know, youth leaders and all
of this common group that arecoming together to work together
(47:04):
for to support the community.And I think something that is,
how do you keep that, you know,for longer term? How do we find,
funding that's long lasting tosupport that workforce?
Because we're kind of likeearlier I talked about economic,
I talked about responding to thecommunity, and with this
workforce, we're doing both.We're creating employment
(47:25):
through the coalition for thecommunity. Right? And then we
also are responding to a need ofthe community.
Grant Oliphant (47:31):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (47:32):
So how do we keep so that's my that
workforce that built it upthrough COVID, and we have, you
know, a good amount of peoplethat are doing that work, and
finding them trainings andsustainable, you know, funding
that is, long term.
Grant Oliphant (47:46):
Yeah. So very needed. Well, I, I just wanna
thank you for spending this timewith us. It is, it's terrific to
talk with you. It's inspiring totalk with you.
And, on behalf of San Diego andhumanity in general, I wanna say
thank you for the work thatyou're doing.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (48:06):
Thank you. I'm honored to be here, and
thank you so much for having me.
Crystal Page (48:12):
I just have a deep sense of gratitude for hearing
that interview. I think Aminaraises a lot of our our
privilege of we happen to beborn in this country, and some
people are forced to leave wherethey're from home.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (48:25):
So Right.
Crystal Page (48:26):
What did you take away?
Grant Oliphant (48:27):
Well, I I thought that was one of many
powerful takeaways. You know,the when I was asking her about
how she makes the case, I lovewhen she said, sometimes I don't
bother if I know somebody justcan't hear it, but the way she
makes the case for why this workmatters and why working with
these populations matters is, atits root, her answer was it
could be you, could be anybody,could be any of us, could be any
(48:50):
of our children. These are folkswho are not, refugees by choice,
but because life brought them aset of circumstances how easily
(49:13):
this can happen to a family orto an individual. So that was
powerful, I thought. I alsothought the way she
characterized the populationitself, and you know,
particularly later in theinterview as we were getting to
the word subjects of joy.
And, you know, what shedescribed is a community that
(49:37):
most often appears in the newsbecause of policy debates about
the numbers or because of ofchallenges and issues in meeting
their their their needs. Butwhat she was pointing out is an
a story as old as time inAmerica, which is of an
(49:58):
immigrant population that isalso grateful to be here, that
is grateful for the life thatthey have, that has dreams, that
has a vision of the communitythey wanna contribute to, that
is deeply resilient and canovercome any set of challenges
at a time when, by the way, somany of us are struggling. So I
(50:21):
just found that to be incrediblypowerful, and it just reminded
me once again that refugees andimmigrants have been a source of
our strength as a society for avery long time, and she's just,
helping us navigate a new andmodern form of that.
Crystal Page (50:40):
Yeah. I felt that there to that point, there was
some strength when she said Weare fun, resilience, loving
people who are grateful. She didtalk about that dream of it may
not all happen today, but it's astep in that direction. I think
there was something incrediblythoughtful in that, but also
(51:01):
there was this want of unity.Right?
This want of going goingtogether into something. And
there's just a positivity that Ithink in in, you know, moments
where we can get down as justregular old humans feeling sorry
for ourselves, and like, oh,yeah. You know, life can be good
and just be grateful for what wehave in this moment.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (51:20):
Yeah. So
Grant Oliphant (51:21):
Now I think we have to acknowledge as we're
talking about that, the otherside, which is that the work is
hard, and we talked a bit aboutthat that working with a a
vulnerable population like this,you know, as she as she
admitted, for people like her,it's a 247 job. In that she is
(51:43):
of the community. She lives inthe community. Her friends are
from the community, many ofthem. And so if things aren't
going well, if there's achallenge that's being faced,
she's gonna hear about it in thegrocery store, not just, at work
from, you know, between thebetween the hours of 8 and 5,
and she said that.
Crystal Page (52:02):
I thought about that. It's like work life
balance. There is none. Right?
She said she goes to the mosque,and I really appreciated, Grant,
when you asked her specificallyabout mental well-being and the
fact that that is a hugechallenge for refugee
populations right now, because Ithink we all know, and we will,
by the time this is out, haveheard from doctor Ben Maxwell
(52:25):
that well-being for anypopulation access is a real
issue, and so hearing heridentify this as a real issue
for the refugee communities, I'mcurious, you know, I know we're
trying to do some things onthis, but it seems like a a
constant theme regardless ofpopulation.
Grant Oliphant (52:42):
Well, we're yes. I you're exactly right, and
we're seeing in the in the work,as you know, that mental health,
behavioral health issues areemerging for every age group and
every population, but certainlythis is one that where it comes
into play. And I thought it wasfascinating how she talked about
(53:03):
the stigma that still very muchexists in the in in much of the
refugee community aroundacknowledging this is an issue,
and that is an area of work tobe done, helping people become
comfortable with the help thatthey need, or might need, or
might benefit from is, is partof the task. It's not just
(53:27):
responding to the crisis, buthelping people even see the
crisis in the first place. Youknow, she used a phrase that I
know resonated with both of usthat really comes into play
there, which I think isimportant for medical
professionals, is this notion ofcultural humility, you know,
that we that that we think weknow the answers for other
(53:51):
people, and most of the time wedon't.
You know, most of the time weget it wrong because we aren't
from the same culture, or we getit wrong because we are, we're
not the people who areexperiencing the the thing
ourselves. So I I just thinkthat resonated incredibly.
Crystal Page (54:10):
Oh, that really resonated with me as well. I
feel like, we're constantly atrisk of putting our foot in our
mouth. So the idea that it'slike approach something with
that humility, I think is a toolthat we all could probably
afford to practice a lot more.But thinking about someone who
is constantly working acrossdifference, Amina is, and it
(54:33):
seems like they focus onsimilarity and connection and
shared goals, and that's howthose bridges are built. There's
a connection.
She even mentioned a connectionwith us as Prebys Foundation
because there's a similarity.There's a
Grant Oliphant: Yeah, I actually thought that was a fascinating (54:48):
undefined
part of the interview too,talking about how to bridge
divides, help people talk acrosswhatever differences they might
have. She clearly views that aspart of the work of the of the
(55:09):
Refugee Community Coalition andas part of her work in in health
equity, and she embodies it. Youknow, she and I but I I what I
found really great, Crystal, waswhen she talked about the tools
that you and I and others canuse to do this work. Right?
Because it again, we use jargon,bridge building, and, you know,
(55:34):
we we use these phrases.
And, you know, what it amountsto is I loved her example of you
see somebody at a gathering andthey're standing alone and they
look like they don't fit. Gotalk to them. Ask them about
their lives. Be willing maybeeven to get it wrong, and and
(55:55):
just connect on a human level. Ithought that was fantastic.
Crystal Page (55:59):
Yeah. You're right. Because we know we did
speaking of jargon, we did a lotof focus on belonging last year,
and that was a connect for herto us. It's really all about how
do we make people feel welcomedlike they're seen in a room. And
I think we all wanna do that,and we all know what it feels
like when we don't feel welcomein a space.
(56:21):
You know? And she did not wasteany time on naming places where
she hasn't felt welcome. Sheinstead is choosing to focus on
making others feel welcome andfinding a place for herself.
Grant Oliphant (56:31):
Yes. So often in this interview, she had the
opportunity to go negative, andshe went positive. Right? You
know? And I think that's partlyan expression of her
personality.
It's also an expression of howshe sees the work though, that
the way we have to build thisvision of an inclusive society
(56:51):
is by leaning into the strengthsthat it has, and and encouraging
people. You know, she even usedthat phrase at one point of
leaning in where there ismomentum. And I I think that is
part of the secret here, thatthere are places where important
progress and connections arehappening, and we should build
(57:13):
on those. That's the, you know,that's the magic sauce if there
is one. I just found it to be anincredibly powerful
conversation.
Crystal Page (57:21):
Yeah. I'm just grateful because we've spent
time with her because of thisleaders in belonging award, but
I just feel like there's moreand more knowledge to glean from
her And to apply going forwardfor ourselves.
Grant Oliphant (57:34):
Well, I, you know, I think, you and I love
doing these interviews becausewe always walk away feeling
smarter and like we've learnedsomething. In this case, I just
also feel, connected in terms ofdeeper meaning in the work.
There is a way that she thinksabout it, which I think
(57:57):
connects, at least for me, withhow we think about it, how our
foundation aspires to thinkabout it. They're people of
amazing faith and backgrounds inthis community, trying to change
the world, and using thiscommunity as the place to do it.
It's really cool to get to be apart of that.
Crystal Page (58:18):
I think that's a great final thought, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (58:20):
Alright, Crystal. Thank you so much for
having this conversation.
Crystal Page (58:24):
Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (58:28):
This is a production of the Prebys
Foundation, hosted by GrantOliphant, and co hosted by
Crystal Page. The program is coproduced by Crystal Page and
Adam Greenfield, and it'sengineered by Adam Greenfield.
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Hey, Crystal.
Crystal Page (00:11):
Hi, Grant. How are you?
Grant Oliphant (00:13):
I am great. We're having a conversation
today with Amina Sheik Mohamed,that I think people are going to
love. She's an extraordinaryhuman, you know her well, and I
think our audience is all goingto want to know her well, if
they don't already, after theylisten to her.
Crystal Page (00:32):
You know, I knew of Amina, but when, she won one
of our leaders in belongingawards, you see how gentle she
is, but still an incrediblystrong leader. What are you
hoping to get out of theconversation?
Grant Oliphant (00:47):
Well, I think I'm hoping to get a conversation
about what it looks like to beworking with one of America's
most vulnerable populationsright now, and what that means
for San Diego, why it'simportant, why it's important
for the country, and and howthere's a promising path
forward. I think it's anincredibly helpful conversation.
We should probably say a wordabout Amina and and who she is
(01:11):
and what she does. She's thedirector and founder of the
Refugee Health Unit at UC SanDiego Center For Community
Health. She's also an incrediblypassionate and gifted leader who
works on the front lines of thebarriers to health equity that
face immigrant and refugeecommunities, and I think what we
have seen, which is why she wonthe leaders in belonging award
(01:33):
was that she is a consistentvoice for uplifting the voices,
perspective, and needs of thosepopulations.
Crystal Page (01:41):
Yeah. And I think Amina, in particular, the way in
which she does that, a lot ofthe time is behind the scenes.
So I'm gonna be curious in yourconversation with her, you know,
how is she building connectionsacross difference? And I'm just
really curious in terms of herleadership role in these
(02:02):
communities and uplifting thevoice. I think, in the bio you
just read, it talks about herown personal experience, so I'm
excited to hear this leaderwho's leading from her own
personal experience.
Grant Oliphant (02:13):
Well, I think I think what we're going to see in
this conversation is how aperson, navigates a very
complicated terrain with passionand equanimity, and manages to
bring a great deal of, I canjust call it sanity and kindness
(02:36):
to the work that she's doing.There's a great model here for
all of us in how we are workingour way through complicated
times. So we should probablyjust dive in.
Crystal Page (02:48):
Let's dive in.
Grant Oliphant (02:48):
And listen to the interview, and then talk
about it at the back end.
Crystal Page (02:51):
Here we go.
Grant Oliphant (02:56):
Amina Sheik Mohamed, it's so great to have
you here on the program. Thankyou for being here.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (03:00):
Thank you so much. I'm honored to be here.
Grant Oliphant (03:02):
It really is a pleasure. I wanna start by
honoring the fact that you werea recipient of the Leaders in
Belonging award, that the PrebysFoundation recently gave out,
and we were delighted to honoryou for the work that you've
done in health equity, and alsoworking with refugees in San
Diego. It's an extraordinaryportfolio of work that you have
(03:26):
put together. You're incrediblymodest about it, and part of
what I'm going to try and do inthis conversation is draw you
out a little bit to talk aboutwhy the work is important. I
should also note that shortlyafter you received our award,
you received a similarrecognition from the Irvine
Foundation for statewideleadership in, in these issues.
(03:49):
I suppose what I wanna start byasking you is what was it like
for somebody who is as quiet andmodest as you to suddenly be
showered with that kind ofrecognition?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (04:00):
I'm very honored, with that with that
with both awards, and it shows,it really shows attention that
the community needs. So thisaward is not so much about me
personally, and it's more aboutthe community and the work and
the services that are needed. Soshedding the light on those
(04:21):
communities, refugee communitiesstatewide and San Diego as well,
it really shows, it's timely.It's timely, and it shows the
support and the, you know,acknowledgement that is that has
been missing for a long time.
Grant Oliphant (04:35):
So the timeliness of the work, I think,
is a subject I'll want to comeback to later because that cuts
both ways as you know, and I'mcurious how you experience that,
but we'll we'll come back tothat. For right now, I'd love to
ask you how you came to do thiswork. Let's talk a little bit
about what the work is first,and then what your path into
(04:58):
doing it was. So can youdescribe for our listeners
exactly what it is that you do?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (05:04):
Yeah. I am, the founding director of UC San
Diego Center For CommunityHealth Refugee Health Unit, and
our unit was in response it wascreated for the response of the
community gaps and needs. So wewere based in City Heights and,
(05:24):
working with refugeecommunities, it was, like, to
make sure that what is reallywhere are the gaps, and how can
we, as an institution, UC SanDiego, support, you know, and
and and be part of the movementsand and and and with refugee
communities. So, what myleadership has been is to really
(05:45):
support the ethnic ledorganizations, who are doing
amazing work frontline, tosupport with, like, technical
assistant training support anduplifting the work that they do
in a higher level of of,publication and, you know,
report data. There's so manydifferent missing focus areas
(06:09):
that we have.
So one of my initial very broadmoments has been creating,
establishing the refugee,communities coalition, which is
brings the ethnic communityleaders, ethnic led community
leaders together in one place.So they have a common goal. They
(06:29):
have, shared vision, and theyhave shared resources as well.
Grant Oliphant (06:35):
I think that's an extraordinary piece of
community leadership by the way.When I Early on when I came to
town, I met with you and thegroup, and the fact that there
was a coalition that representedthe various refugee communities
in San Diego was tremendouslyhelpful, and I imagine is
(06:55):
tremendously helpful for thegroup. As, for for the sake of
folks who are listening who maynot understand why in the health
space or more generally, thereare special issues that confront
refugees. Can you explain alittle bit about what it means
to do health equity work forthem? Why in a in a town rich
(07:18):
with, medical resources andhealth care resources, why is
this important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (07:22):
Yeah. Health equity is, important in
so many different communities.It's important in communities of
color. It's important in lowincome communities, and we are
part of that. Refugee are notdifferent from any of those
communities.
So we're we're counted underwe're under the communities of
community of color. We live inmost of them are when they
(07:46):
immigrated here, they are theycame here as refugees, they live
in a low income communities.And, their income is not high
level income. So even thoughhealth equity is in general,
like, focus, with communitiesfacing even more, you know,
like, leaving those areasenvironmentally, there's a lot
(08:06):
of, issues, and they there'sit's gonna be part they're part
of that community, right, justthe general community that we we
wanna shed the light on. Inaddition to that, there's
language, cultural barriers.
Sense of belonging is not there.I know this is, like, the word
that was focused on that. Soit's like when you come here,
there's just a lot of barriers,you know, that because of the
(08:29):
environment and where refugeesare placed, it's gonna be. And
in addition to that, then thelanguage, you know, access to
cultural competency, language tocultural responsive. There's a
lot of issues in that whereaccess is not the same for
everybody.
Grant Oliphant (08:43):
Right. And so access to institutions that
people who are native to SanDiego or native to the US might
take for granted, for refugeesare not obvious. And so you're
describing you're helping themnavigate language barriers,
cultural barriers, which arevery real in the healthcare
space.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (09:02):
Yep.
Grant Oliphant (09:04):
And even understanding standards of care
here and the approach tomedicine here. So you're helping
folks navigate all of that.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (09:11):
Yes. Our our organizations, the coalition
member organizations arenavigating through that process
to help the communities. Andthese are we're not talking
about only new arrivals. We'retalking about the people who
have stayed here. So access tojobs.
Right? Like, employment is hard.Economic opportunities are
harder. So, basically, all thethings, you know, housing and so
(09:35):
on, the social, like we cannothave complete health until all
of those areas are uplifted andand there's resources enough for
the community.
Grant Oliphant (09:44):
What has surprised you, if anything,
about doing this work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (09:50):
In a what way?
Grant Oliphant (09:52):
Well, has there been anything as you've as
you've worked with the refugeecommunity on health access and
health equity issues that thathas been a major learning for
you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (10:06):
I think, yeah. There has been, I think
doing this work has beendifficult for a while for a long
time. And I think with COVID,people started to understand
more. So it became like wedidn't have to explain so much
anymore. It became like theproblem that everybody was
(10:29):
facing.
Grant Oliphant (10:30):
Right. So let's talk a little bit about how you
came to do the work. I'mcurious, have you had personal
experiences that helped shapeyour wanting to do this work in
the first place?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (10:43):
Yeah. My work has started, I wanted to be
in the health care sector, butin a in a way of, like, working
in clinics and kind of seeingthe patients when they were
sick. Right? So doing that, Ihad to explain diabetes, what
diabetes was, and hypertension.And I noticed the community did
not even have education aboutthat or didn't even know what
(11:07):
they were diagnosed with.
So that's what kinda led me tocome out of the clinics and go
into prevention. So I went toprevention, community health
education, and so on, and then Iwas like, no, that's not enough.
You know? It's not abouteducating the community, but
it's about access. Right.
It's about, the environment thatthey live. Do they have the
(11:28):
resources? Right, resources infront of, like, where they live
or, you know, close enough.Right? So, when I switched to
that, then now I'm in a positionto think about system level
changes.
And it's not about really evenaccessing that, but it's like,
how do we make those systemschange? And my focus right now
is, to work with variousdifferent stakeholders to make
(11:52):
sure that they understand theneed of the refugee community,
and, to make system changesystem level change for for them
and for other, communities thatare facing similar.
Grant Oliphant (12:03):
Yeah. I wanna I wanna talk about those systems.
Before we get to that though,let me push, on this question of
a personal connection because Ithink so often people who are
drawn to working with vulnerablepopulations of any kind or with
healthcare issues in particular,come into that work by some
(12:27):
sometimes by personal connectionwith it. And I'm just curious
about you and your upbringingand your your your background
further back. Did that alsoinform for you, what what why
this space mattered to you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (12:45):
Yeah. So in a different level, like, early
on, obviously, my family and us,you know, and and also my
community. So I'm not, up tonow, I'm part of the community
that I serve. So it's more of,like, being in that community. I
don't have to be, you know,working hours, like, in a way to
(13:06):
find out like, I could be in themosque, and I will have a
problem to handle from, youknow, work perspective, or I
could be in a store, and someonemight tell me about a problem in
the community.
So I am part of the communitythat I serve, so that's
something I carry around withme. And, you know, helping my
family and other communityneighbors and everyone, in the
beginning of my career, at apersonal level as well as work,
(13:31):
it has been it's hard to evenactually, differentiate, you
know, when I'm working and whenI'm not working, to be honest
with you. Because when you arepart of that community, you're
committed to be a part of thatcommunity.
Grant Oliphant (13:44):
How do you define that community?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (13:46):
The community is, community is
Grant Oliphant (13:49):
I mean, when you speak about your community, just
for the sake of our listeners.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (13:52):
The refugee community in general, but, like
and and their needs have becomemy part part of me too. So
that's the community I'm talkingabout. And then later on, I
think, in in general, when I'mtalking about system changes and
other things, the personalthings that I see is being
(14:12):
different, you know, just beingdifferent. Like right now,
wearing a scarf, coming into,like, you know, just in a space,
I feel that.
So I wanna make sure otherpeople, especially younger
people who are growing up herenow, have access to
opportunities, can dream about,you know, getting awards and
being part of the society in SanDiego. So it's personal for me
(14:36):
because I feel I went throughthat. I wanna make sure that
they also have access to. Sosome things are more like, yes,
I went through it as a work or,you know, things like that. And
then also the kind of the workof prevention and kind of access
care and all of those things iswhat I witnessed.
People going in with notranslation in the health
(14:57):
system, you know, like, not justlittle things, right, that we
take for granted, not knowinghow to complete. Like, you
missed one paper of submitting,and you might be not even
getting that health insurance orsomething like that. You know?
Grant Oliphant (15:12):
And you saw this happen to people you knew, and
so you wanted to prevent that
Amina Sheik Mohamed (15:16):
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (15:16):
You know, I think it's I think it's
fascinating what you were sayingabout being part of the
community that you're servingbecause it does turn it into a
247 job, and mission whereyou're always on call. And I'm
curious to know the thesepersonal experiences and
(15:40):
personal glimpses of thechallenges that exist, and the
personal experience of ityourself. How has that shaped
your approach to doing the workthat you're doing now? Because I
think there are lessons therefor others who want to work with
community, and I'm just curiouswhat how how having been in it,
(16:01):
and still being in it, shapesthe way you approach the work.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (16:08):
It takes a commitment. It takes a
commitment. It takes a longtime, and it may feel something
that's, never ending in a way.You know, it's kinda ongoing.
Mhmm. But, we have to behopeful, and there has been
some, you know, obviously, somesuccesses. Like, you just talked
about the coalition. That'ssomething we didn't have 10
(16:28):
years ago. Right?
That's something we didn't have8 years ago, but now we do, and
now what's next? So I think it'sbuilding the foundation and and
building it more and more andmore. I do wanna clarify one
thing I said earlier. Like,being part of the community, I
don't wanna say only you have tobe part of the community to
work. Right?
Grant Oliphant (16:47):
Right. Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (16:47):
It's just it takes a little bit more when
you are in that community andyou're seeing. For example,
like, the example that I usedof, it's not 8 to 5. Right?
Like, it could be 7 or 8 or, youknow, I'm not on call, but,
like, just being part of thecommunity, you see it more. And
you might be neighbors with, youknow, that you're witnessing,
(17:09):
you're hearing about it. So it'snot you're not waiting for that
news to come through the news.Right? Or or someone else
doesn't have to just alwaysreach out to you, but you're
getting it immediately.
And the good thing about that isyou might respond quick quickly
for that to to you know, sosomething doesn't have to, last
longer. Like, you could dosomething about it. Be
(17:30):
responsive.
Grant Oliphant (17:31):
Yeah. I think that's well said. I'm I'm
curious. We often, you know, wesometimes ask, about how faith
comes into play for people andthe work that they do, and, you
mentioned the mosque. So howdoes it come to into play for
you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (17:49):
Spiritually and faith is super important,
for the work I do, and,personally for me, like, I feel
like that is some of the things,you know, being grateful and
just there's a lot of differentways that it shows up, giving
back and all of those things issomething that, you know, we we
(18:10):
are feeling, part of thereligion. And sometimes it's I
know people think it'sdisconnected from, access or,
like, even treatment andeverything, but really a lot of
people go to their mosque to getsupport system. Right? It's it's
a big support system forcommunities. And, one thing that
(18:34):
we're more hopeful, and I thinkit's not only mosque, but
churches and, you know,different faith leaders to get
involved is to make sure thatthere's, connection to,
resources.
Right. And for example oneexample is, like, mental health.
Right? So sometimes mentalhealth is connected to, like,
going out to your mosque andseeking some support. And so
(18:57):
some of the things that we thinkis to make sure that those
resources are available at themosque in addition to, you know,
community centers and others.
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (19:06):
So connecting them where people are and where
people can
Amina Sheik Mohamed (19:09):
Worship. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (19:10):
Now you, you work with people of all refugees
of all faiths And all kinds ofbackgrounds, and inevitably
there are differences that feelmore important or more urgent
than others, and we're certainlyliving through a cultural moment
where those get exaggerated orhyped. And I'm curious what part
(19:33):
of your role in helping peoplenavigate the health system or
just the community in general isalso to play bridge builder. How
does that come into the playinto play for you in your work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (19:47):
Yeah. The bridge building is, so for
example, like, right now with,like, just the example that you
have for different religions,different things. I don't have
to be in a different religion tounderstand, but it's really
being cultural humility. Right?Being there for the people,
understanding what they're goingthrough.
And each, luckily with thecoalition, we have a specific
(20:10):
focus on each community is theirown, right? But we know
spiritually there's a lot of of,like, people are, like,
connected, and there's, likejust really, like because they
have the same shared experience,oftentimes religion is not even
brought up. It's like we have wewe're missing language, you
know, like, or, like, we needthese resources or that. It's
(20:32):
not talked about a lot ofthings. Everybody believes in
their own.
But, through the COVID time, wewere able to connect with
churches and mosques and so on.So, like, just that way. But
bridge builder is superimportant, to connect because
there's disconnect, as you know
Grant Oliphant (20:49):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (20:49):
In resources, plus even
connections, you know, in thecommunity. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (20:55):
Is it getting is that process of building bridges
getting harder or easier, wouldyou say?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (21:03):
I think it's getting better. I think
there's more hopeful, sinceCOVID. It's been getting better,
and I think, one good example isright now, I'm sitting with you
here, and I don't think thatwould have been possible before.
You know, in terms of, like,funders were so disconnected
from the work, you know, like,the community.
Grant Oliphant (21:17):
Yeah. Yeah.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (21:17):
So you came to the coalition and I'm here
with you now. So that is that'swhat gives me hope. It's
changing.
Grant Oliphant (21:30):
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for that, and and, of
course we would wanna connectwith you. You're doing really
important valuable work for thecommunity, so I think, I just
wanna reflect that back to you.Yeah.
I would I'm curious, though,about the dynamic that's
(21:50):
happening in the broader globaland US culture, of people
seeming to divide into campsand, a, you know, a global level
of vitriol, directed at refugeesand immigrants, not just in this
(22:12):
country, but all around theworld. And I I'm curious how you
and the coalition experiencethat and whether you think
that's getting better or worse?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (22:27):
It's, I don't think it's in that one,
like, I think it's alwaysemerging. Refugee issues are
always emerging. So as you know,we just few months ago or
several months ago, we just hada lot of refugees come through
the border.
Grant Oliphant (22:41):
Yeah. Huge numbers.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (22:43):
Yeah. Huge numbers. So it's always up and
down. And something that thecoalition is doing, and also we
hope that other, partners andfunders and everyone else can
hopefully be is beingresponsive, like shifting. You
know, we all do strategicplannings.
We all do other things, but it'sreally, like, what is important
at the moment. Right? Like, whatis really important at the
(23:04):
moment? And I think, the borderissues and refugees coming in
and, you know, resources, it'sjust we have to be more
responsive and and and see theneeds of, like good example has
been the flood right now thathappened in San Diego. You know?
Grant Oliphant (23:19):
Huge flood.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (23:19):
Yeah. We have Yeah. And it's not all San
Diego. It was particular, youknow, areas. And it's like, how
do we shift resources andattention and everything at that
kind of level?
And and refugees are exactly thesame thing. Right? Like, it's
that kind of flood that justhappened. It's not planned. It's
not something you added in yourstrategic planning.
It's not something that you canget ready and stand at the
(23:42):
border because your border or orother places. You don't know
when they're gonna arrive,what's gonna happen, and how
what is the numbers like. Soit's for us to really make sure
that we're shifting, resourcesand and the plans that we had on
being responsive and beingflexible.
Grant Oliphant (23:58):
Yeah. When you're asked by people, and I
know you are, about, why itmatters, you know, I think I
think there there are folks whoare sympathetic, but who and who
get the humanitarian message,but they they think we don't
(24:19):
have the resources or they thinkwe should be focusing on other
things. When people ask you whyis it important for our society
to respond to refugee needs, howdo you help them understand why
it's important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:35):
I help those that understand, those
that are willing to understand.Y Because I think there's
Grant Oliphant (24:39):
Starts there.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:40):
Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like I think there are
people who, no matter what, youknow, it's like
Grant Oliphant (24:45):
You're not gonna get thrown. But they're probably
not asking you. Or if they
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:49):
They are. They could. They could ask,
Yeah. They could ask, but still,like, not that it's not gonna
process through them. Right? SoI don't wanna put energy in
there.
Grant Oliphant (24:58):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (24:58):
But we will put energy where, there's
momentum and there's someresponses happening. And I
think, I do wanna acknowledge, Ithink the larger community
understands what that is. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (25:11):
I think San Diego is, very aware of and
understanding of that message.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (25:17):
For sure.
Grant Oliphant (25:17):
But but how do you help folks who are on the
fence, if you will then,understand why it's important?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (25:28):
I wanna tell them that being a refugee
and leaving your country is notsomething you plan, it's not a
choice. You know? And and Ithink, some of the things that
kind of brought this issue, youknow, this matter, like, home is
COVID. We just had to shifteverything around to do like,
you know, to respond to that,and the floods that happened or
(25:51):
an earthquake and something likethat.
So I'll compare to that. Youknow. Just a matter of, like, in
minutes or whatever, you have toleave your home, go somewhere
else. That is something that weshould be open to, you know, you
don't know who's gonna be next,you don't know if you're next,
so just think about yourself.There's not a group that is
(26:11):
granted to be a refugee forever.
You know?
Grant Oliphant (26:14):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (26:14):
So, like, you could be it you could feel
similar. You could face similarsimilar, as refugees being in
San Diego or elsewhere. So justreally, like, don't take for
granted is what I would say.
Grant Oliphant (26:30):
I think that's thank you. And that's why I was
pressing you on it because Ithink it's that's such a
powerful answer, and the floodmetaphor is actually a really
good metaphor, because asrecently as a couple of weeks
ago, for all I know right now,we still have a 1,000 people
(26:51):
living in hotels trying to getback to the homes that they
suddenly had to vacate becauseof the flood in Southeast San
Diego. Refugee situations areanalogous, but people are
displaced not just from theirhome, but from their country.
And to your point, it's not alark, It's not a and it's not
even necessarily a choice. It'ssomething that's imposed upon
(27:14):
them maybe without evenforethought or expectation.
So thank you for that, and Ijust the the gentle but forceful
way in which you stated that Ithink is is helpful in
delivering that message, and itneeds to be heard. You know, I
think it's it's a core elementof our understanding each other
as human beings. So what are youlet's let's turn for a moment to
(27:38):
what you're excited about. Whatare you most excited about in
terms of the work that you'redoing? You, you know, you've
gotten these recognitions,that's wonderful, but you are as
usual, very self effacing aboutit. And and yes, it does bring
resources to the work, but whatexcites you right now about the
(27:59):
work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (28:00):
What excites me is really the work
we're doing with the coalition.One specific, project that we're
doing with the coalition rightnow is, we created a policy
council that kind of comestogether, you know, and did
their own research with from thecommunity to come up with
(28:21):
priorities of policy. Like, we Italked to you earlier about
system changes. Until we changethose systems, you know, nothing
is gonna happen. So thecoalition is working right now
with policy priorities that aregonna come out soon.
And those policy that's the onesthat they wanna drive on. In the
past, we were able to supportother projects that are kind of,
you know, created or initiatedby other groups, but right now
(28:45):
it's their own they're gonna bedrivers. So for me it's more
about that narrative change ofrefugee leading the way. And you
know, and so in all of the workthat we're doing, it's more like
how do we make sure thatsomething has to change and, you
know, people who are at thetables that are we're like I'm
(29:08):
going to right now, it'schanging, right? Like like the
example I give you about thisinterview and all of those
things, it's because we see thechange.
We see the change coming, and,it's something that we worked
for a long time, but we wannamake sure that it's gonna be, a
lasting one. You know, it's notlike just trending of, like,
(29:28):
let's highlight refugees rightnow and so on. So I think there
are some changes that'shappening and we want to make
sure that youth leaders,communities of color, refugees
are in a leadership position,and leading. Leading, they have
the solution, they know whatthey're doing, and it's like
(29:48):
letting them have that space andand and changing that, you know,
from the past. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (29:54):
I think it's incredibly important and
powerful that you have a policycouncil that, because that is
key to changing any system.Systems change as a phrase often
feels like jargon to people whoare listening to it, but I think
what you're driving at is verypractical changes, in how
(30:16):
systems work. So you alluded toa couple earlier, but for
example, the availability ofpeople who speak in multiple
languages at healthcarefacilities would be a system, a
change to a system that needs tohappen. Greater awareness around
cultural needs of uniquepopulations or discrete
populations would be another.But what other types of changes
(30:39):
are you seeking in the systemsthat you're addressing?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (30:45):
Mental health is another focus of ours.
Mental health, it's educationsystem. I also there's a lot of,
you know, changes in thatemployment sector, housing for
sure. And in the past, we usedto see, like, some of those
changes coming through and thecommunity being part of it, but
(31:06):
because they were not drivingthat change or they were not the
lead of that, It was not, youknow, they were kind of
supporting and not knowing whereit ends sometimes. So right now,
this is their initiative, youknow, and they're leading.
So I think that's what really Idon't know how far it's gonna go
and what's gonna happen, but I'mhopeful that, something good
will come out. And it's based ontheir thinking and and and, you
(31:31):
know, they are the initiators.And it's like and it's mostly
youth, actually, who you have
Grant Oliphant (31:36):
not done. Well leadership coming from the
people who are most affected isprobably the gold standard of
changing systems.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (31:43):
Exactly. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (31:44):
And that's what you're describing.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (31:45):
Yes. Yes. They had communic like, they had
community, focused, You know,they met with community leaders.
And coming up with a priority asfar as, like, refugee focused
for policy is not that easy. Wehave a lot of barriers, but they
had to come together and say,what are the top?
You know, obviously, we have alot, but, like, what can we
more, like, focus on for thenext 3 years or so? And I think
(32:09):
that is something I'm excitedand I wanna support, and I also
want our, partners and otherpeople to know about it when
it's out and support it more.
Grant Oliphant (32:18):
I I since you bring this up, I I wasn't
planning on asking about this,although I should have been.
What are you seeing in terms ofthe mental health issues and
behavioral health issues in therefugee community? You know I
think I was reading an articlethis morning about how anxiety
is affecting, every age group inthe United States, and this is
(32:41):
clearly behavioral healthissues, challenges around
wellness, and mental wellnessare are afflicting youth in
particular in American society,but they're being felt broadly
throughout the culture. What doyou hear from the refugee
community about this?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (32:58):
Yeah. What I hear and I what I see is,
mental health is is a big issuein all communities, but for our
community, particularly refugeecommunities, it's more
affecting, because there's a lotof stigma around it, right? So a
lot of people maybe not gettingthe care that they need in a
matter of time. And the otherone is like, you know, the youth
(33:24):
that you're talking about areleaving. We have American youth
and like refugee, you know,whatever country we have, the
parents are a different culture,so it's like you have 2 cultures
in in in one home.
You know? So there's a lot ofthings that are, you have 2
different language. Like, someparents may not even, like, you
know, understand their commonlanguage might be English, so
(33:46):
they might not speak, you know,the like so there's a lot of
different levels that mentalhealth is affecting the
community. But definitely it'smore about knowing early enough
and resources. And then theother one you said anxiety and
all of those things.
Really what brings those anxietyis, the stress level of, you
know, not having good jobs, youknow, not having low or having
(34:12):
low paying jobs and not havingaccess to resources. It's going
to be something that bringsanxiety to communities. And
then, just thinking truly, likeeveryday thinking about poverty
and all of these things, youknow, it's just that's one way,
but the other ways are morelike, stigma and culturally, you
know, not understanding thesystems and things like that. So
it's a little bit harder Right.For refugee communities.
Grant Oliphant (34:35):
Is there a is there a magic formula for
helping people overcome stigmaaround this to ask for help?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (34:44):
I think we're getting there, but we're
not there quietly until wechange the workforce. We need to
have workforce that isunderstanding the community, you
know. We need to have, therapyand other people, you know,
mental health staff member andworkforce that is reflecting to
the community that we serve, andand we're not there yet.
Grant Oliphant (35:05):
You know, in our conversations with young people
in the refugee community, one ofthe things we hear is that they
have, the added burden or roleof being caregivers to parents,
translators for parents,Translators is a big issue
often. Cultural navigators forparents. You never think about
(35:27):
that, unless, I guess, you're init and or seeing it. Do you
think that by and large, the thechildren of refugees that you're
that you're meeting and seeingare navigating that well, or do
they need extra attention aswell?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (35:47):
I mean, they're doing that part of, you
know, it's giving back to yourcommunity, it's giving back to
your parents, but I think, totake that burden off them, we
need a system. We need a systemthat will hire so we don't have
to, you know, go through ourchildren for translations.
Right? Like, they could be thechildren, and we we will have
(36:07):
that. So, it's getting a littlebetter, but in the past, we had
a lot of youth, you know, goinginto the hospitals and
translating.
And and, unfortunately,providers were excited to say,
you're doing a good job ofhelping your mom, but that
should not be. That should bethe children.
Grant Oliphant (36:23):
Yeah. Let's talk about joy for a moment. Yeah.
Yeah. I think, you know, so muchof how you come across when I've
seen you in communitygatherings, and, just in talking
with you 1 on 1 is, yeah, you'vegot a very realistic view of the
challenges that people face, andyou're clear eyed about
(36:46):
everything we've just beendiscussing, which can feel heavy
and dark sometimes.
But that's not who you are. Imean, who you are is joyful and
upbeat and positive. So I'mcurious, first of all, where
does that come from? And what isgiving you joy right now in the
work?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (37:05):
Yeah. I wanna say that that's not only
me. I think that is honestly thecommunity that I see always.
It's like, yes, we do wanna talkabout challenges, and this has
been the topic right now, butthen we are also fun,
resiliency, loving people thatare very grateful. You know?
So I think they're very like,that's where it comes from. It's
(37:28):
like being grateful for what youhave and also having a dream and
vision. You know, like, thingsmight not come your way right
now, but it will happen Andevery step counts. So for me,
it's more like, yes, you know,we might not have the things
that we want or see the things,but then like celebrating little
(37:50):
changes, celebrating every stepthat is towards that process and
also, not like, not having, forexample, you know, with the
coalition right now, the thingsthat we've builded, it's like we
don't we wanna build up thatmore, right, so we're not going
back or the next generation thatcome in or anything like that,
(38:11):
they don't have to start allover. So building that
foundation, you know, moving onand building that one and and
having, being grateful andhaving a vision.
Grant Oliphant (38:22):
Yeah. I love that I love that, combination of
gratitude, dreaming, vision,resilience, all important
concepts. Are there are therepeople in your journey who have
stood out for you as examples ofthat?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (38:39):
Mhmm. Yes. Yes. I think I wouldn't be here
if it was not those people that,you know, invited me to spaces
and acknowledged, people who aremissing at spaces and called
out. Right?
So it's not 1 or 2, it's a lotof different people. And, and
that's one way of helping.People think always about
(39:02):
resources and money and all ofthose things, but it's really
the connections that matters,you know, or inviting people to
spaces or even encouragement tosay, you can do it, you know,
even though you feel you don'tbelong there belonging. You
belong there, you know. And andand I think, there and and
luckily, there's there's enoughpeople in San Diego who are
(39:27):
doing phenomenal job about that.
Grant Oliphant (39:30):
You find San Diego to be a welcoming
community in general?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (39:36):
Yes. You know, it depends on who and I
feel like I'm around thosepeople.
Grant Oliphant (39:40):
It's like any community. Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (39:42):
I feel like I'm around those people, but
there there have been spaces youfeel not welcomed.
Grant Oliphant (39:49):
Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (39:50):
But I think we're kind of focusing on the
positive end of it right now.So, yeah, there is, definitely
yeah. There's there's, there's alot of positive around and then
there's negative, but I think wewanna attract to the positive.
Grant Oliphant (40:05):
Yeah. Great. The, the foundation, the Prebys
Foundation believes in a visionof community wellness as you
know, that, is really centeredon the capacity of every person
in the community to have theirown sense of purpose, to feel
(40:26):
like they've got opportunity tosucceed, and to really feel also
like they belong in thatcommunity. So it's this for us,
it's this combination ofpurpose, opportunity, and
belonging. If people have those,then the community that they're
part of thrives, we believe, andin the absence of those, it's
(40:49):
difficult for community tothrive because individuals
aren't thriving.
Does that resonate for thecoalition and for the work that
you all are doing? And and howdoes it translate for your
mission?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (41:04):
Definitely, it does, translate directly. And
I wanna give a shout out toPrebys Foundation for really
thinking about those highlights,right? Like, it's like you
cannot have complete well-beingwithout feeling belonging. The
opportunities are what we talkedabout, it's all access and
opportunities, right? Like, so,it's really all interconnected,
(41:28):
all the things that we'retalking about.
So really, for somebody to have,a complete well-being, we have
to make sure there is enoughwork that has been done. And I
think belonging is is is a verygood example. I haven't heard a
lot of people talk aboutbelonging, so I was really
amazed when I heard thefoundation going after, you
(41:49):
know, like that focus, and it'sit's, I wanna say
congratulations for being, kindof shedding the light on that.
Grant Oliphant (41:57):
Yeah. Well, thank you. But more importantly,
again, to reflect it back toyou, thank you for being the
embodiment of that. What do youthink, people what would be
helpful for people to know abouthow San Diego can step more into
being a community of belonging?If we really wanna be that, and
(42:19):
and your answer can be aboutstrengths or weaknesses, it can
be anything.
But if we really wanna be acommunity of belonging, what
what would you hope San Diegoand San Diegans would do? Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (42:30):
Let's go with the strength. I think, it's
really individually should seewhat they can do to make people
feeling welcome. And this startsfrom getting holding the door
for the elevator for and otherthings, but individually, we
(42:57):
should be thinking about whatcan myself, me, what can I do to
make that happen? And I thinkthat level is that starts there,
and then it goes up to, like,foundations and other partners
and other groups and, you know,as institutions. Right?
But I think individually there'sa lot that can be contributed,
and and, that is someone who maynot a inviting them to different
(43:23):
meetings and spaces that they'renot there. So it's really
important, belonging, and Ithink people should understand
more.
Grant Oliphant (43:31):
I think there's something hugely powerful about
what you just said, you know, ifanybody reflects on an
experience they've had, andeverybody has had them in their
lives, they may not acknowledgethem, but Mhmm. Everybody has
had them, where you're in acontext and you don't feel like
people see you, or you don'tfeel like people hear you. It's
(43:54):
a miserable feeling. You know,it's a sad and lonely feeling,
and what you're describing is acommunity that doesn't let
anybody feel that way, that as amatter of course, people feel
like they're seen and feel likethey're heard. Is that a fair
description of your vision of ofinclusion or belonging in this
(44:15):
community?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (44:16):
Yes. Yes. Especially if someone is not
like I think spaces that thosepeople are walking into, they
might not see people that looklike them. Mhmm. It could be
even a workplace.
Right? Like
Grant Oliphant (44:26):
Mhmm.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (44:27):
It could be like you might feel like, you
don't belong there. Oftentimes,we feel we don't belong to
spaces, but how do you make surethat space is a good experience,
right, if you even try it out,like, to feel that you wanna
come back again.
Grant Oliphant (44:41):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (44:41):
And I think that's the individual level
plus, you know, it could be,like, also an institution. But
there's really, like, what canwe do to make sure that we're,
making sure people who alreadytried out are having good
experience to come back to thatspace and come back. And then
the ones that are not there areable to come in.
Grant Oliphant (44:58):
Yeah. So some of the listeners of this podcast
are, leaders in healthcare. Theycertainly can, are familiar with
some of the takeaways from aninterview like this, because
they are wrestling with theseissues, and you're helping a
very important institution dothat, and actually the whole
(45:18):
community through the coalitionto do that. Other people who
listen to this are individualsworking on all kinds of
different things in San Diegoand and across the country. For
them, if they want to accomplishwhat you just said and and help
contribute to a community wherepeople feel seen and heard,
(45:40):
What's a simple thing they cando?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (45:44):
Try to connect with that person. Try to
say something about asking themsomething they are comfortable,
you know, sharing about theirfood and what they like. Or even
even if you're a doctor, you cancome into the room asking, you
know, like, something that'smaking you connect to to to that
individual. And I think thatrelationship, it's, you know, it
(46:07):
builds from there. So I thinkanybody can start a conversation
nicely and connection, and thatwill be welcoming instead of,
like, something else that theymight ask, like, you know.
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (46:20):
Yeah. Amina, we're about at time, and before
we wrap up, I wanna ask youwhat's next on your agenda. You
know, what do you think youwanna work on next, either
through the coalition or throughyour health equity work? Is
there a next mountain to climbfor you?
Amina Sheik Mohamed (46:40):
I feel like that's always something, right,
we're working on. I think, rightnow, just really making sure,
through through the work of thecoalition, we build it up
workforce. Really, that's likecommunity health worker,
behavior health specialist, and,you know, youth leaders and all
of this common group that arecoming together to work together
(47:04):
for to support the community.And I think something that is,
how do you keep that, you know,for longer term? How do we find,
funding that's long lasting tosupport that workforce?
Because we're kind of likeearlier I talked about economic,
I talked about responding to thecommunity, and with this
workforce, we're doing both.We're creating employment
(47:25):
through the coalition for thecommunity. Right? And then we
also are responding to a need ofthe community.
Grant Oliphant (47:31):
Right.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (47:32):
So how do we keep so that's my that
workforce that built it upthrough COVID, and we have, you
know, a good amount of peoplethat are doing that work, and
finding them trainings andsustainable, you know, funding
that is, long term.
Grant Oliphant (47:46):
Yeah. So very needed. Well, I, I just wanna
thank you for spending this timewith us. It is, it's terrific to
talk with you. It's inspiring totalk with you.
And, on behalf of San Diego andhumanity in general, I wanna say
thank you for the work thatyou're doing.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (48:06):
Thank you. I'm honored to be here, and
thank you so much for having me.
Crystal Page (48:12):
I just have a deep sense of gratitude for hearing
that interview. I think Aminaraises a lot of our our
privilege of we happen to beborn in this country, and some
people are forced to leave wherethey're from home.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (48:25):
So Right.
Crystal Page (48:26):
What did you take away?
Grant Oliphant (48:27):
Well, I I thought that was one of many
powerful takeaways. You know,the when I was asking her about
how she makes the case, I lovewhen she said, sometimes I don't
bother if I know somebody justcan't hear it, but the way she
makes the case for why this workmatters and why working with
these populations matters is, atits root, her answer was it
could be you, could be anybody,could be any of us, could be any
(48:50):
of our children. These are folkswho are not, refugees by choice,
but because life brought them aset of circumstances how easily
(49:13):
this can happen to a family orto an individual. So that was
powerful, I thought. I alsothought the way she
characterized the populationitself, and you know,
particularly later in theinterview as we were getting to
the word subjects of joy.
And, you know, what shedescribed is a community that
(49:37):
most often appears in the newsbecause of policy debates about
the numbers or because of ofchallenges and issues in meeting
their their their needs. Butwhat she was pointing out is an
a story as old as time inAmerica, which is of an
(49:58):
immigrant population that isalso grateful to be here, that
is grateful for the life thatthey have, that has dreams, that
has a vision of the communitythey wanna contribute to, that
is deeply resilient and canovercome any set of challenges
at a time when, by the way, somany of us are struggling. So I
(50:21):
just found that to be incrediblypowerful, and it just reminded
me once again that refugees andimmigrants have been a source of
our strength as a society for avery long time, and she's just,
helping us navigate a new andmodern form of that.
Crystal Page (50:40):
Yeah. I felt that there to that point, there was
some strength when she said Weare fun, resilience, loving
people who are grateful. She didtalk about that dream of it may
not all happen today, but it's astep in that direction. I think
there was something incrediblythoughtful in that, but also
(51:01):
there was this want of unity.Right?
This want of going goingtogether into something. And
there's just a positivity that Ithink in in, you know, moments
where we can get down as justregular old humans feeling sorry
for ourselves, and like, oh,yeah. You know, life can be good
and just be grateful for what wehave in this moment.
Amina Sheik Mohamed (51:20):
Yeah. So
Grant Oliphant (51:21):
Now I think we have to acknowledge as we're
talking about that, the otherside, which is that the work is
hard, and we talked a bit aboutthat that working with a a
vulnerable population like this,you know, as she as she
admitted, for people like her,it's a 247 job. In that she is
(51:43):
of the community. She lives inthe community. Her friends are
from the community, many ofthem. And so if things aren't
going well, if there's achallenge that's being faced,
she's gonna hear about it in thegrocery store, not just, at work
from, you know, between thebetween the hours of 8 and 5,
and she said that.
Crystal Page (52:02):
I thought about that. It's like work life
balance. There is none. Right?
She said she goes to the mosque,and I really appreciated, Grant,
when you asked her specificallyabout mental well-being and the
fact that that is a hugechallenge for refugee
populations right now, because Ithink we all know, and we will,
by the time this is out, haveheard from doctor Ben Maxwell
(52:25):
that well-being for anypopulation access is a real
issue, and so hearing heridentify this as a real issue
for the refugee communities, I'mcurious, you know, I know we're
trying to do some things onthis, but it seems like a a
constant theme regardless ofpopulation.
Grant Oliphant (52:42):
Well, we're yes. I you're exactly right, and
we're seeing in the in the work,as you know, that mental health,
behavioral health issues areemerging for every age group and
every population, but certainlythis is one that where it comes
into play. And I thought it wasfascinating how she talked about
(53:03):
the stigma that still very muchexists in the in in much of the
refugee community aroundacknowledging this is an issue,
and that is an area of work tobe done, helping people become
comfortable with the help thatthey need, or might need, or
might benefit from is, is partof the task. It's not just
(53:27):
responding to the crisis, buthelping people even see the
crisis in the first place. Youknow, she used a phrase that I
know resonated with both of usthat really comes into play
there, which I think isimportant for medical
professionals, is this notion ofcultural humility, you know,
that we that that we think weknow the answers for other
(53:51):
people, and most of the time wedon't.
You know, most of the time weget it wrong because we aren't
from the same culture, or we getit wrong because we are, we're
not the people who areexperiencing the the thing
ourselves. So I I just thinkthat resonated incredibly.
Crystal Page (54:10):
Oh, that really resonated with me as well. I
feel like, we're constantly atrisk of putting our foot in our
mouth. So the idea that it'slike approach something with
that humility, I think is a toolthat we all could probably
afford to practice a lot more.But thinking about someone who
is constantly working acrossdifference, Amina is, and it
(54:33):
seems like they focus onsimilarity and connection and
shared goals, and that's howthose bridges are built. There's
a connection.
She even mentioned a connectionwith us as Prebys Foundation
because there's a similarity.There's a
Grant Oliphant: Yeah, I actually thought that was a fascinating (54:48):
undefined
part of the interview too,talking about how to bridge
divides, help people talk acrosswhatever differences they might
have. She clearly views that aspart of the work of the of the
(55:09):
Refugee Community Coalition andas part of her work in in health
equity, and she embodies it. Youknow, she and I but I I what I
found really great, Crystal, waswhen she talked about the tools
that you and I and others canuse to do this work. Right?
Because it again, we use jargon,bridge building, and, you know,
(55:34):
we we use these phrases.
And, you know, what it amountsto is I loved her example of you
see somebody at a gathering andthey're standing alone and they
look like they don't fit. Gotalk to them. Ask them about
their lives. Be willing maybeeven to get it wrong, and and
(55:55):
just connect on a human level. Ithought that was fantastic.
Crystal Page (55:59):
Yeah. You're right. Because we know we did
speaking of jargon, we did a lotof focus on belonging last year,
and that was a connect for herto us. It's really all about how
do we make people feel welcomedlike they're seen in a room. And
I think we all wanna do that,and we all know what it feels
like when we don't feel welcomein a space.
(56:21):
You know? And she did not wasteany time on naming places where
she hasn't felt welcome. Sheinstead is choosing to focus on
making others feel welcome andfinding a place for herself.
Grant Oliphant (56:31):
Yes. So often in this interview, she had the
opportunity to go negative, andshe went positive. Right? You
know? And I think that's partlyan expression of her
personality.
It's also an expression of howshe sees the work though, that
the way we have to build thisvision of an inclusive society
(56:51):
is by leaning into the strengthsthat it has, and and encouraging
people. You know, she even usedthat phrase at one point of
leaning in where there ismomentum. And I I think that is
part of the secret here, thatthere are places where important
progress and connections arehappening, and we should build
(57:13):
on those. That's the, you know,that's the magic sauce if there
is one. I just found it to be anincredibly powerful
conversation.
Crystal Page (57:21):
Yeah. I'm just grateful because we've spent
time with her because of thisleaders in belonging award, but
I just feel like there's moreand more knowledge to glean from
her And to apply going forwardfor ourselves.
Grant Oliphant (57:34):
Well, I, you know, I think, you and I love
doing these interviews becausewe always walk away feeling
smarter and like we've learnedsomething. In this case, I just
also feel, connected in terms ofdeeper meaning in the work.
There is a way that she thinksabout it, which I think
(57:57):
connects, at least for me, withhow we think about it, how our
foundation aspires to thinkabout it. They're people of
amazing faith and backgrounds inthis community, trying to change
the world, and using thiscommunity as the place to do it.
It's really cool to get to be apart of that.
Crystal Page (58:18):
I think that's a great final thought, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (58:20):
Alright, Crystal. Thank you so much for
having this conversation.
Crystal Page (58:24):
Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (58:28):
This is a production of the Prebys
Foundation, hosted by GrantOliphant, and co hosted by
Crystal Page. The program is coproduced by Crystal Page and
Adam Greenfield, and it'sengineered by Adam Greenfield.
Production assistance isprovided by Tess Karesky And our
(58:50):
new theme song is by misterLyrical Groove, a local San
Diego artist. Download episodesat your favorite podcatcher or
visit us at stop and talkpodcast.org.
If you like this show, and wereally hope you do, the best way
to support it is to share,subscribe, and review our
(59:12):
podcast. Thank you for yoursupport, your ideas, and most of
all, for listening. This programhas been recorded at The Voice
of San Diego Podcast Studio.
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.