Brandon Steppe: “Shoulder to Shoulder” Mentorship That Changes Lives

Episode Transcript
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Crystal Page (00:04):
Hey, Grant.

Grant Oliphant (00:11):
Hi, Crystal.

How are you today?

No. I'm really good. We just wrapped up a
conversation with Brandon Steppfrom David's Heart Foundation.
Extraordinary leader andextraordinary work.

Yeah. I've seen his TED Talk, and he just uses
such visual language. I'mexcited to to discuss this
interview.

Well, you are the one who tipped me off to his
TED Talk, and it is hit thisconversation with him is
everything you'd expect fromthat TED Talk and more. It just
gives so much insight intoworking with young people, the
power of creativity, why it's sogood for mental health, why it

(00:55):
is a jumping off point forbetter, stronger communities.
Honestly, as America's lookingfor ways to rebound and grow
stronger, let's start here.

Shall we dive in?

Let's dive in.

Let's do it.

Okay. I am here with Brandon Stepp, the director
of the David's Harp Foundation,and what a joy it is to be with
you. Thank you for being here.

Brandon Steppe (01:22):
No. It's definitely an honor, Grant.
Yeah. This is an amazing setup.As a media person, I'm like

I know. I'm a little I'm a little intimidated
talking to you. So but we'regonna we're gonna dive right in.
You know, I was I was readingyesterday, in a story that the
the worst place to begin anystory is at the beginning.
But I'm gonna begin at thebeginning to the extent that
your story has a beginning,which is the moment when you

(01:49):
decided to leave a nicecorporate track that you were on
and a and a management job thatyou had to follow this dream of
starting something literally inyour garage

Right.

But not a tech company. I mean, kind of a tech
company, but Yeah. But a musicaltech company focused on kids and
young people.

Yeah.

Tell us a little bit about what made you make
that decision.

Sure. So I have to backtrack a little. So I
would like to take the creditthat I left for that altruistic
purpose, but that's not thecase.
Right? So like anything, I leftto start a business in a garage.

Not necessarily that business.

Not a tech company, definitely not that
business. And in the processyoung people found out about
that garage recording studio andwanted to be in it.
And so I was very hesitant tolet them in because I was also
trying to start a business butone young man named Rayvon was
persistent, he wouldn't take nofor an answer and so came one

(02:52):
day said hey I want to be inthis recording studio, I said,
alright, I'll give you a shottomorrow, be here at 03:00. And
so he came at 03:45, and I waslike, hey, you missed it. It's
too late, you missed it. He'slike, alright, just give me
another chance. Like, I'm I'mworking.
I was like, alright. So the nextday I said, be here at 03:00, so

(03:13):
the next day he's there at02:30. Right. Right? And I
didn't know school didn't getout till 03:30.
So they could cut school to makeit to the studio. And I said,
oh, you didn't have to do that.You should have just told me.

Mhmm.

But that is the power of that platform. And,
yeah, but so I I ended upleaving that corporate job and
being in that space thinking Iwas gonna do music and also
media production, but youngpeople absolutely changed my
trajectory.

So yeah. And and when you say they found you, how
did they find you?

Well, they found out through the grapevine as I
was hammering and banging inthat garage, creating a a really
nice recording space. And ayoung man named Hara walked up
and kinda was the first braveone to peek his head in. Now and
I'm from Southeast San Diegooriginally, and this was in the
the community of Emerald Hills.

So Okay.

Once he knew, everybody knew. And the young
people started to not just knowabout the studio, but then want
to participate, right, to be inthat thing, to make music. And
we weren't a nonprofit, and Iwasn't thinking nonprofit, but
what I saw was the power of theplatform of music when this
young man Ray Vaughan would comein, like literally, you could

(04:27):
see him just become a kid again.And this is a young person that
was contemplating gangmembership and contemplating
doing different things thatweren't going to be healthy. And
so I found myself then seeingthe power of this platform, not
quite sure what to do with it.
You know, what do I do with it?

Well, what what gave you the idea then to to
change what you had intended todo with that business and having
it become a social enterprise?

The real catalyst was a moment of legacy
and, like, a sense that I neededto give back to the community.
Mhmm. And that coupled with mywith my faith, man, this is an
opportunity to pour into a younglife. Mhmm. And, you know,
what's my direction here?
Do I really wanna do music? Iwas just coming off that
corporate job looking like, oh,maybe I could do a different

(05:17):
corporate job if this doesn'twork out. But the opportunity
when it was matched with theenergy of these young people and
the desire to be in that space,it was it was really undeniable
at that point. And that's whenyou start using the the term
calling. Yeah.
Like, I know I'm supposed to dothis with these young people.

And did you start by starting a nonprofit,
or did you start by just servingthe kids Yes. And then the
nonprofit came from that?

I started by serving the kids. Yeah. So we
went two and a half yearsinformally and really wanted to
see what what it was like andand we learned a lot from young
people, a lot a lot actuallyabout how and why they wanted to
show up, about what they wantedto do. And then, you know, as
they were growing in music, Iwas growing in mentorship, but

(06:05):
really for all the wrongreasons, you know, like, not
because I was good atmentorship, because I wasn't.
Was I was struggling with thataspect.
It's like you see a youngperson, you're like, oh, I wanna
tell you

I'm going to fill them with my knowledge.

Yeah, right? Mean, I'm from Southeast San
Diego, I had a chance tonavigate that in the nineties,
some of the stuff that they werelooking at, and I'm like, well,
I could tell you how to getthrough this. Really, that's
arrogant. At the end of the day,you don't have a relationship
with someone. It's verydifficult to speak like that.
And even when you do, it's noteasy.

Right.

Right? So you have to earn

So when you say when you say you learned a lot
from the kids in those firstcouple of years Mhmm. Sorry to
put you on the spot, but whatwere the first the top couple of
things you learned from them inthat early time?

The very first thing was I'm not a great
mentor. That was, like, the veryfirst lesson out the gate. Like,
that of voice in a person'slife, a young person's life is
earned. And so I earned thatthrough a really traumatic
personal moment where I waswalking with my wife who was
pregnant at the time with ourfirst daughter Jasmine and was

(07:10):
struggling with a high riskpregnancy where she was
diagnosed with bilateral cystson her ovaries that potentially
were cancerous and they wantedto do surgery. Was really
traumatic.
And then our daughter was alsodiagnosed prenatally with Down
syndrome on the same day. Oh,Yeah, so it was a really
traumatic moment. My wife washospitalized, and so I was going

(07:31):
from the hospital back and forthto the recording studio, and
then just had a moment withthese young people where
couldn't put on the mentor mask.I was like, oh, and it was just
like, guys, I'm struggling.Tears in front of teenagers.
You know? It's like Right.Right. It's a scary thing.
You're like, oh, tears inteenagers.
What is happening?

This is a moment you describe in your TED Talk.

Yes. This is the moment. Yes. To where I
discovered for the first timewhat it meant to to actually be
honest and transparent with theyoung person. Mhmm.
Let them see who who I was andand allow them the opportunity
to communicate to me. And so wecall that flashlight first now,
it's one of 10 pillars in ourcommunity that really has become

(08:15):
a practice of earningrelationship with young people.
It's cultural inside ourorganization, but it's also our
lived experience best practice.

And flashlight first, meaning Yeah. So shine a
light on what's happening foryou?

Or That's a great question. So typically,
we, as an adult, we shine aflashlight on a youth. And we're
telling them what they need todo, how they need to show up,
what they should do, butinstead, shine the flashlight on
myself, or our artist mentorsnow shine the flashlight on
ourselves. We check-in withthem, it's a high low and a hope

(08:50):
check-in, they get a chance toreally know who we are, our
high, our genuine low and ourhope. And in the process, if
they're willing, they walk inthat light with us to start a
conversation.
And emphasis on the end, ifthey're willing. So it's a
community where adults are beingtransparent about who they are.
They're plugging young peopleinto authentic art and

(09:10):
opportunity, but young peopledon't have to participate in
that. They can pass in thatcheck-in space, and it comes
back around to the adult. Andultimately, all the young people
always participate because itbecomes a space of belonging for
them.
Yeah.

Love that. Yeah. I don't know if mythology is the
right word, but all originstories come with elements that
become legend in the telling ofthe story. And in the telling of
your story, part of what comesout is in the early days trading
better grades for music time,basically.

(09:49):
And I'm curious how you did thatgiven that you weren't a teacher
Right. Who could actually offerbetter grades. Right. So what
was the nature of thattransaction, and how was it not
transactional? Because you'reyou're not actually describing a
transactional relationship.

Right. So what happened was the studio started
to fill up faster than I couldhave capacity Yeah. And still
make a living. I was like,alright. What are you all
willing to pay to be here?
Right. Right? Young people. Andat the time, they were obviously
not willing to pay money. Right?
Right. Which is okay. Right. Iwas like, well, you're gonna pay

(10:28):
something. You gotta pay yourgrades.

Yeah.

And there's a young man named Austin who is 37
now with kids. It's like, Howdid that happen? I don't know. I
don't know where this grade camefrom, but he was one of the
first ones to trade his goodgrades for recording studio
time. And I just made a simpledeal with him.
He wanted more than I waswilling to give as far as time
was concerned.

Mhmm.

I said, well, okay. For an A you can have an
extra hour, for a B you can havethirty minutes, C nothing, D
nothing, F nothing, deal? Andhe's like, yeah I don't have any
A's or B's or C's or D's rightnow. And I was like, oh, okay.
So he's like, but I'll try.

(11:11):
I was like, alright, cool. So hetried his first six weeks in the
progress report and he came backwith Cs and Ds. And then after
eighteen weeks, he was he hadA's and B's. Wow. It was
phenomenal.
And that wasn't the that'sreally not the goal in
developing relationship now, butthe opportunity to say what can

(11:35):
I use this platform for besides,you know, connecting? Is this
value? How strong is thisplatform? That's when I knew we
needed to make it a nonprofit in2009 when I saw this young man
go from not trying in school totrying. And there was moments
when I had to call a teacher andthere's moments when I had to
ask a counselor, hey, you know,what's going on with this this

(11:56):
kid's grades and how can we helpsupport him and what supports do
you have there?
And I I left the the pure artconnection that we had to join
this mentorship moment. Right?These mentorship moments that
are now commonplace for us. Butbut, yeah, that that
transaction, that simpletransaction for a young person
really was, inspiring to them.And I was like, okay.

(12:22):
Well, what else can you do withthis thing? Right. You know?

Well, what was it do you think and casting no
shade on school. No. But whatwas it about being around music
and media Mhmm. And you thatthey found valuable?

Well, I I think so youth voice as a concept is
some you know, you can kindaprobably Google youth voice and
and learn some things, but youngpeople wanna show up in that
way. This is this is this waspart of their core identity that
wasn't a developed portion ofit. And and that's such an
important thing in in ourcommunity because there's a

(13:00):
thousand other potentialidentities that a young person
can take on. Mhmm. And some ofthem are positive.
You know? But singer,songwriter, producer, engineer,
all of those kind of identitiesin the art give a young person
something to latch onto. Mhmm.You know? And to grow in because

(13:23):
these are not just arbitrarytitles, these are actually real
world jobs that people do rightin this very room.
And so I think when you'restarting to talk about a young
person and why they want to showup and why things are powerful,

Mhmm.

If you don't start with them and what they
wanna do, how they wanna showup, then you're you're probably
just building something thatyou're gonna have to rebuild.
Right? Especially with the kidswe serve. If if they don't like
it, they're leaving. You

know? Right. Right.

Yeah.

Well, and I wanna come back to part of your
answer there was about youthvoice and, you
know, what I've watched happenin that in that realm over the
last decade or more is thatyoung people in many ways are
becoming the teachers around thetechnology. Yes. And I imagine
you're experiencing that. I I

handed my I handed my phone to a young
person for the first time acouple months back.

What's that? Yeah. What's that like? It was
embarrassing. It's a moment.
Welcome to it. Welcome toadulthood.

It's I not a watershed moment, man. Yeah.

You have talked about how one positive
relationship Mhmm. Can transforma young person's life.

Absolutely.

And, you know, I'm I'm thinking that when you
were starting out in thisprocess, you weren't necessarily
thinking about justice involvedyouth. No. But later you added
that. Yes. I'm curious to hearfrom you why you began to
develop that emphasis and andone story that really captures
for you the importance of thatone positive relationship.

Yeah. So the story actually is is from the
'19 late nineteen twenties isthe so my I'm a fourth
generation

You think I you you think I remember that, don't
you?

I don't I don't think you remember that.

Then I like you better.

But my my grandfather, Cecil Stepp, who
came to town with his mother,who was coming from Kentucky at
the time, leaving a situation, afamilial situation, and bringing
her children to San Diego to bewith my aunt Rebecca Kraft. And
so here's this woman who's comeall the way from Kentucky on the

(15:41):
train, made it to San Diego withthese three boys, and is now
raising three boys as a singlemom in a time when that wasn't
very common in the community.Her boys were part of a
community, and part of thatcommunity was a little dry
cleaning operation that was onImperial. An old Imperial used
to be called Black Broadway.That's what they used to And

(16:02):
call there's a gentleman therethat had a store and my
grandfather really took a likingto the gentleman, learned how to
do dry cleaning.
And so there's this shoulder toshoulder connection of them
learning dry cleaning. But inthe process mentorship came to
be part of this situation. And Ithink when you start talking

(16:26):
about like how are youdeveloping relationships, why
are you developing relationshipswith this particular demographic
demographic of young people? Ithink it all stems from this
really core thing in ourcommunity, which is the handing
down of information and thenatural shoulder to shoulder
connection that we've had in thepast as we focus on something

(16:49):
else, the love and support thatcan be passed on in the process.
And for young people in thejuvenile justice space, that's
everything.
What we found is it is the bestway to connect with a young
person in that Mhmm. Becausethey're so used to connecting
face to face with people withlogos on their shirt. Mhmm.
Right? Here.
Sign this. Alright. Good to meetyou. Client relationship. Right.

(17:14):
And we don't come in like that.We come in with a recording
studio in a backpack, and we putit down on a table, and it's
shoulder to shoulder. And it'smaking music and doing things
kids love. So our our ourjourney into that space, started
in 02/2017. Our our partners,Juvenile Court and Community
Schools Mhmm.
Asked if we were ready andwilling to go into that space.

(17:34):
At the time, it was the youthfuloffenders unit inside East Mesa
Juvenile Detention Facility. Wedecided we wanted to work with
young people that wereexperiencing the greatest level
of incarceration in ourcommunity, and they allowed us
to do that. And from day one

So technically, the hardest kid.

Technically, the hardest kids. I'm like, let's go
all the way to the Yeah. Hardspot. Right? I mean, these kids
love music Yeah.
And our artist mentors arerelevant. So, of course, there
was a synergy there Yeah. In thebeginning of a conversation.

Now you run a program called Beats Behind the
Wall. Yes. Is that the programthat you're talking

about? Is Beats Behind the Wall. Yeah. And

and is the idea that you you go literally behind
the wall and you and you do whatwith the kids? What is it that
you're giving them anopportunity to do that they're
not getting?

Absolutely. So Beats Behind the Wall started as
us bringing these mobile studiobackpacks inside East Mesa.
Yeah. Those recording studiosare something the kids didn't
have access to at the time.Right?
They didn't have access to thetechnology inside, but you would
say, hey, alright, we're gonnado music today, and the kid, oh,
I wanna go back to my room realquick and get a stack of papers

(18:45):
this thick of poems and raps andsongs. They had been writing and
tapping on desks and makingmusic. Yeah. And so we were
bringing in the thing that theywere able to connect to quickly.

Right.

Okay. Since then, there are other programs,
music programs in the facility,even recording studios now. But
the differentiator is music ismusic, but these kids' music
made by the people that actuallymake the music is the thing.
Right? So we have producers thatare artist mentors that are the
people who actually make themusic.

(19:19):
Adrian's in the room right here.There's a young man, Adrian,
who's one of those people.Adrian. Yeah. He's here.
But that those those artistmentors is what we call them.
Yeah. They're proficient artistsfirst. Relevant culturally
relevant music. They know thekids' music that they love that
they wanna make.
So that's the the entryconnector piece in that space.

(19:41):
The kids wanna make their music.Yeah. They wanna make their
music, not your music or mymusic Right. You know, but their
music.
So

Yeah. Which is what it's all about. Yeah. So I
want you to continue the storyto the sort of second half,
which is when kids come out ofthe facility Yes. As I
understand it, you're there tomeet them. And what does that
transition look like?

Sure. So what happens inside is we're earning
a relationship with a youngperson through music. And
really, it starts with thesepillars that I mentioned
flashlight first.
There's 10 pillars. It startswith that groundwork that is
creating a space of belongingeven inside brick walls. Right?
From that, we're able to letyoung people come in on that

(20:30):
entry floor, which is artisticexpression, and we add system
navigation to that. So we'reshowing up in the back of
courtrooms as young people arehaving their

Yeah. You were just sharing before we started
recording that that you spend alot of time in the back of
courtrooms.

Literally just out of court to advocate for
young people, but really to bepresent. So as they're going
through that process, theanxiety is high, right? This is
not a low anxiety place, so tohave a familiar face there, to
share with the judge what ourexperience has been with that
young person, and to add that toprocess, but really more just to

(21:07):
show up for a young person, tobe present. There's a lot of
times when we're the only onesthere. So from that, we add that
next layer and we start tochallenge young people inside.
What is that challenge like?It's artistic challenge. Okay,
you can talk about this or that,but have you ever thought about
talking about your life andwhere you're from? Are you able
to reimagine your art in a waythat will allow you to reimagine

(21:29):
your release? And from there,then we add on, okay, now you
did that, what opportunities doyou want to access that are a
challenge to you?
Right? We can take this art andmaybe get you to do something
for someone else. Or do you wantto try to take this art and
maybe, you know, have aprofessional opportunity with
it? We do some stuff like that.And then at the very end, at the

(21:50):
top level, we start talkingabout navigating probation
successfully, getting back inschool, doing the things that
people typically you think wouldbe talked about at the
beginning, but really art allowsus to earn that relationship.
Right. So by the time a youngperson is ready to come home,
it's not a cold handoff, and,oh, see you later. Right. And

(22:12):
it's not even a cold opportunitywhen they're walking back in to
say, let's try somethingdifferent. They've already been
trying different things, andwe're able to then walk them
back into community, back into aproduction facility where they
already know the faces, wherethey are already been challenged
to try something different, withan opportunity to do something

(22:33):
different to have a differentoutcome.

So through your lens as a a person doing this
creative work with young people,what is it that society gets
wrong about these kids, in youropinion, and that the justice
system gets wrong about thesekids?

You know, I think I think the hardest thing
in the justice system isbalancing safety with
relationship. Mhmm. The termcoach was from a time past in
the juvenile justice system inour community, and really the
opportunity to connect withyoung people can be both safe

(23:16):
and relational. I think that'sthe one thing that there might
be confusion about. And I thinkit's for good reason though,
because people in the past haveabused those relationships in
certain cases, right?
And it's kind of ruined theidea. But what we're showing is
that you can be safe andrelational with a young person.
And in fact, if you're notrelational, then you're probably

(23:39):
not going to have an outcomethat's positive for the
community. Ultimately, it'sgoing to be that relationship.
And in spite of the system,there are great people within
the system that are also veryrelational.
There are very relationalprobation officers that connect
in spite of the system. Thereare very relational public

(24:01):
defenders and and districtattorneys that connect in spite
of the system with young people.And I I might take my hat off to
them, right, because they'redoing that in spite of the rules
in the system. But we we'redifferent than that because
we're coming in specifically todo that. So I think that's one
thing if they were gonnarethink, it's like, how can we

(24:22):
recenter relationship in thisprocess?
Because a brick wall, Iguarantee you, is not gonna
rehabilitate a kid or evenhabitat a kid.

Right.

Right? Right. A brick wall is not gonna do that.
Time in that in the in that roomof brick walls is not gonna do
that. If it's gonna be done,it's gonna be because someone is
willing to walk with that youngperson.
And we call that walking in themud. Right? Walking in the mud.
That's what we call it.

Yeah. And you call that process of coming out,
walking kids back into thecommunity too. Yeah. So there's
a theme for you.

Our journey. Sometimes it's walking,
sometimes it's pausing and justbeing still and understanding
that there's struggles, and wehave really a whole relational
framework around this.

Yeah.
In your in your experience,working with young people in
this way, only reestablishes arelation a relationship with a
group of people Mhmm. Who theycan hopefully trust or they
learn they can trust. And italso gives them some tools to

(25:29):
express what's going on forthem. Absolutely. Talk to us a
little bit about what you see asthe transformational effect of
that.
I mean, that is one of thepremises of what you referred to
earlier with youth youth voicework is that some of the
frustration and and dysfunctionthat comes out with young people

(25:49):
is from not being able toadequately express what it is
they're feeling or experiencingor seeing.

Mhmm.

So how does that work in your in in your world?

Yeah. I think specifically with young people
that are justice involved,there's this opportunity to meet
them in art, and in the art theylove hip hop in particular,
right, where it might be reallyhard for you to sit on a couch
and have a formal mental healthsession with with someone. Might
be difficult to talk aboutthings. But when that pen comes

(26:24):
out and you're able to rhymethat

Right.

The space transforms. The idea and the
circumstance that the initialtrauma thing can transform
because now we're having apositive experience around a
traumatic moment. We'recelebrating high fives that you
got through that verse. We'recelebrating the metaphor, the
similes, the beautiful structurethat you brought to this

(26:50):
traumatic moment. And it startsto heal in a way that I don't
think very much else can.
Healing is found in music and ithas been probably since the
beginning of time, right? Andthat way that we experience
music when you're making it iseven more, right? When it's your
music. Right.

Right.

And so young people are celebrating their
stories in different ways thatimagine. Like I've heard young
ladies that have gone throughreally traumatic moments, being
able to write songs and smile inthe midst of retelling of this
story when everybody's kind oftrying to fight back tears.
They're able to release this ina way now where they can
celebrate, and it's justsomething that in the brain that

(27:32):
just is rewired by that. And I'mnot the scientific one to be
able to tell you exactly whatthat looks like, but I've
experienced it so many timesover the last sixteen years that
it's just real, you know? Yeah.

At Prebys, we've launched this initiative called
Healing Through Art and Nature,and the premise is pretty much
what you're just describing. AndI'm curious why since you're
doing this work every day Mhmm.Why does society struggle so to
see the connect you know,because I think the the

(28:08):
immediate impulse is, oh, thethe child is depressed. We
should medicate them. Yes.
The the young person is actingout. We should medicate them.
Sure. Why do we struggle withthis idea that maybe what they
need is instead to be heard in away that speaks to their soul.

You know, I I think there's obvious economic,
you know, underlying issues withmedicating kids. I mean, that's
that's just a thing. Right?There's a company selling that.
So that aside, though, I thinkthat we minimize the impact and
power of art because us artistsare very passionate about it and
it starts to sound a littlefuzzy.

(28:47):
That's not a popular thing tosay in my artist community, but
we know the power of art andwe're not shy to tell you, and
at some point if you haven'texperienced it, then you're just
kinda like, okay, that's we'realso a little eccentric, you
know, a lot of times, so, youknow, these are my people, I can
admit can admit You could admit

it, right?

But I think also in the society that we're in,
art is not financially valued inthat way, and artists aren't
typically until they are, right?But just the run of the mill
artist, a young person havingthe experience, if you're not
seeing it, what you need to dois get that kid a job. Right.
Right? Like, that's what we'rerunning into regularly.

(29:30):
We're able to do the job thingnow too, which is cool, but
we'll talk about that, I'm sure.But but I think the value of
things is commingled with othervalues. Right? And ultimately,
we're not listening to how youngpeople wanna show

up. Mhmm.

Overwhelmingly, they wanna they wanna be
artistic. Mhmm. Overwhelmingly.I mean, it's like, as a primary
identity, these young people seethemselves in that way,
especially in a time in ourcommunity where it used to be
sports and and and entertainmentkinda was the the stereotypical
thing that people said about mycommunity. And sports now is

(30:09):
being minimized because there'sthis kind of elite thing that's
happening with teams and there'snot as many like little leagues
and that's pay for play typethings, so you need to be really
good really soon.
So at eight, nine years old,kids aren't necessarily even
seeing themselves as being thenext baseball basketball player
because they're not on thetravel team. And so that thing's

(30:31):
kind of drawn up, and more andmore kids are now coming over to
this art thing as something thatthey can actually participate
in. So that's just a reallypowerful, powerful thing that's
happening, you know.

There's an illusion
I wanna come back to theworkforce point you made a
moment ago, but I I do wanna askthis question. There is an
illusion among the adult world,I think, that young people are
so wired in and dialed in that,you know, they're the stars of
TikTok. They're the drivers ofall the all the energy around

(31:08):
those videos. Sure. That so theillusion is they know what
they're doing and they don'tneed you.
So why do they need a David'sharp? How do you enter into the
equation? I can see providing apositive adult relationship for
young people who need that. Whatelse? What else comes up for
you?
Sure.

I I I think what you're seeing is outlier. Mhmm.
Right? There is a group ofextremely talented young people,
some with access, some without,that are accessing things
through their phone in a waythat they didn't have an
opportunity to before, which isamazing, right? This like direct
to the thing Internetphenomenon.

Right.

Okay. So that that's cool in media, but that's
still such a small fractionalpercentage. The amount of young
people that have a YouTube pagethat they're hoping for that
have 50 views is a lot. Right?It's a lot.
Yeah. It's the world.

That's the world, yeah.

So very few things pass that threshold. So
we enter in in a space wherewe're like, hey, your phone is
great, but if you think that'samazing, wait till you come into
this state of the art recordingfacility Mhmm. State of the art
cameras, state of the artrecording mixing boards, and you
get a chance to be in the spacesthat the people that you are

(32:29):
idolizing are ultimately insometimes, right? And so there's
always been that. The same thingwith the recording studio at the
garage, it was like, yo, this isthe real thing.
I wanna be in it. And I have areally good board of directors
in particular, Brenton Millerwho's like, hey, we're gonna
make the real thing for kids.It's always gonna be the real
thing. So there's that. We offerthat, which is the real thing.

(32:52):
And then as we've grown, we alsooffer access. So access to the
actual local creative economy,access to doors that kids can't
walk in. This week they were atSony at the AI summit shooting
video and content for Sony.Access to be able to say, hey,
little bro, little sis sib,stand on my shoulders and let's

(33:15):
let's see what you can see fromup here. Right?
Stand on the shoulders of theartist mentors that are around
you, the people that have beendoing this for a long time, and
let's see if we can get you tothe real thing. So that's the
value proposition for youngpeople. Yeah.

It makes a lot of sense. And, you know, you
mentioned Sony as an example of,you know, you're providing them
with exposure to podcasting andnot only how to do a podcast,
but how to be in that business.Absolutely. How to not just be
an influencer, but be a producerof content for all kinds of

(33:50):
clients Right. I imagine.
Right. Which is partly why we,again, Prebys, recently awarded
you a $400,000 workforce grant.Yes. And

Thank you, by the way.

Well, you that's not why I'm bringing it up.
You're welcome. You did. It'sit's totally deserved, and it's
it's actually our honor.

But I'm bringing it up because I'm curious to
hear you talk about why supportin that realm is important to
what you're trying to do withthese young people. Absolutely.
So once again, 2017, a young mannamed Jesus Villegas and David
Higueretta came to me, anotheryoung lady named Nat, they came

(34:31):
to me and they were like, hey,we want to make money, we want
to make music videos and I waslike, okay cool, you want to
make music videos or do you wantto music videos or do you want
to make money? Let's just stopfor a second and figure out.
Right, what's the motive Whatare asking me?
I came out of corporate so Iwould rather make music videos
but what are you asking me? Andthey're like, no we want to make

(34:54):
money. Okay cool. So there's aKendrick Lamar lyric that says
I've been hustling all day thisaway, that away through canals
and alleyways just to say moneytrees are the perfect place for
shade, and that's just how Ifeel. That's the lyric.
And that is a really, really,really, really, really, really

(35:16):
on point lyric when it comes tosome of the young people in our
community. They're like, we wantto show up in a way that we can
participate so we don't have todo something that we don't want
to do necessarily to be able toeat and live. I don't
necessarily agree with the moneytrees per se, right? I don't
think there's a perfect placefor shade. However, it is

(35:38):
relevant and it's important,right?
So I think just that right thereas a starting point to the
conversation, these young peoplecame to me, they're like, hey,
how can we participate? I said,corporate video seems like a
relevant opportunity in ourcommunity. And we went and did

(35:58):
the market research, I was justcoming out of a corporate kind
of mindset but like okay, wherecan you really participate? So
we found that young people justabove the weekend warrior kind
of video producer that's doingit on the weekends, there was a
spot between a thousand and$2,500 a video underneath the
bigger companies that thatwasn't really enough for them to

(36:20):
get started Right. Or mid levelcompanies that they could
participate.
So we pulled the creativecommunity around. Evan Yamada,
who is now the Biz Pod director,but then was just a
international photographer,brought creatives around. And we
had this conversation. How canthese young people enter into
that space in the market? And welearned a lot about what it was

(36:41):
gonna take, and we reverseengineered that with the young
people that opportunity.
And so from 2017 to '19, theytook the journey. They founded
the organ the the BizPodprogram, which is our workforce
program. And in 2020 theylaunched their company Warehouse
Media. Wow. January 2020 reallyturned real quick into March

(37:04):
2020, right, and COVID hit.
Yes. And by the end of COVIDthey had made $68,000 because
they were helping people putcontent on the internet at a
time when that was reallyneeded. So from there, that
initial bump is now this BizPodprogram and has turned into this

(37:25):
release set of micro enterprisesthat young people are are
building. And your grant is hugebecause it allows us to use
philanthropic dollars to empowerthese young content creators to
to build their creative resume.So they're literally taking,
we're paying them with yourgrant, they're hiring other

(37:45):
young people as they get out ofjuvenile hall, they're taking
that money, they're creatingcontent for smaller nonprofits,
and that content is for free tothe nonprofit.
They're able to then rise.Right? And Yeah. And we're we're
building an ecosystem outside ofnonprofit that will outlast
nonprofit because now they ownit. Right.

(38:06):
And ownership is really isreally important.

That to me is the classic definition of a
social enterprise because youare you are figuring out how to
turn it into a self sustainingmodel

Yes.

For the people who are involved. I'm I'm torn
between staying on thephilanthropic track or the or
the or the work track, but I Ido wanna I wanna finish this
theme that we've been exploringof of what comes of this process
when you value people, when youlet them express themselves,
when you give them outlets toand to to participate in the

(38:43):
creative economy. And the way Iwould, you know, I thought your
your explanation of the KendrickLamar lyric is so profound. And
and what came up for me was justacknowledging that every human
being needs some level of moneyto feel like they can relax. You
know?

It's true.

And so I I don't dishonor that at all either.
Right. And I I think what you'retrying to do is figure out the
connection between money andmeaning. Very powerful. I mean,
you go deep with so as you've asyou've looked at the young
people you've worked with, I'veheard amazing stories.
You've you've had young peoplewho have and I think you had one

(39:24):
who started a clothing linewhile he was in in JV. Well
well, not this guy, but, yeah,another kid, Kyle. You started a
clothing line and and amazing.And and you've had others who
have become alumni of theprogram and come back to be
counselors or mentors in it.Mhmm.

(39:46):
When you look at that, like,what stands out for you? What
are the stories that stand outfor you?

I mean, there's there's quite a few that the
young man, Kyle, that you'rethat you're referencing is not
Adrian who's in the room, butKyle, very powerful. He he he
started in our digital artsprogram. So a young man named
Matthew Martinez founded that.He wanted to do tattoos inside
juvenile, learn how to dotattoos. Probably wasn't gonna
happen.
For good reason Yeah. I wouldsay. And so we created a digital

(40:15):
arts curriculum. MatthewMartinez and I sat down, and we
decided that we were gonna dothis Walk a Mile in My Shoes
where you would start with asticker and develop a t shirt
and then do a pair of shoes, apair of Converse shoes, and
you'd learn how to design thesethings.
that got popular inside, andthis young man Kyle then took

(40:37):
that to the next level. Kyledecided he was going to not only
design t shirts, but he wasgonna be the first ever young
person in juvenile custody torun a business. And that's what
we decided. We partnered withSouth Bay Community Services to
get the infrastructure togetherand with probation. And Adrian,
who's who's here with us, walkedwith this young man through the

(40:58):
process of creating thisbusiness.
And he was successful. Hesuccessfully launched Braveheart
Attire. Yeah. You can go onbraveheartattire.com right now
and and Amazing. Yeah.
He has his business. He's sincethen been released. He's not
just back in the community, buthe's actually up in, at Fresno

(41:19):
State now and thriving andpaying helping to pay for his
expenses using his business. Sothose kind of things are like
not something we planned. Right.
It's about walking journeyingwith young people and listening
and building structure latticearound their vine. I mean, they
truly are the beautiful thing.I'm not like, hey, I'm gonna

(41:41):
build a workforce program.Right. No.
It's like, okay, how can we takeyour the things that you love,
that you wanna do, and help youto structure them to where you
can actually see the things thatyou wanna see come from them as
well? Yeah. That's been been thewhole thing, whole time.

Amazing. Yeah. And and so in some ways, it
happens organically around thekids, the the young people
themselves Absolutely. And whatthey need. And I, you know, I
feel like we should since youbrought, you mentioned Adrian, I
I and we unfortunately don'thave time to bring you into the
podcast, but I wanna acknowledgeyour being in the room and Yes.
Thank you. And doing that work.So thank you very much because

(42:20):
it it's a beautiful example

It really is.

Of how it comes together. Okay. Back to
philanthropy for a moment. Sure.Because I there's a there was a
moment of few years ago, acouple years ago, where you got
a million dollar Mackenzie Scottgrant Yes.
Which also can be a beautifulthing, or it can be a boulder
that sinks a boat. And I youknow, I've because it's a big

(42:43):
grant out of the blue andunexpected. And how did it how
was that transformative for you?And how did you navigate getting
that? Well, first off,

I almost missed it. And there's that. There was
what? I almost missed the grant.

I've heard this story a lot from people,

so it's true.

Yes. So tell us yours.

So, yeah, so I just say it's it was very
beginning of her giving. So shewas working with a consultant,
and also that consultant wastrying to be discreet, and it
just sounded fake. It soundedlike a scam, right? Like, we
want to talk with you, I thinkit would be very advantageous if
he was like, right, okay. Butultimately, when we found out

(43:25):
that we were gonna be given thisamount of money, I sat down and
I just exhaled a little bit,like, okay, what are we gonna do
with this?
Because as a small nonprofit atthe time, I think we were like
$300,000 in budget, andobviously, I mean I wasn't

(43:46):
paying myself quite yet and wewere struggling to figure out
how this was gonna work, thetemptation was that, okay, we're
gonna put this towards generalop, but I just had this feeling
of like we needed to stop andwait for a second and listen to
the community. And so that'swhat we did, and I have a really
good board of directors that waswasn't forcing that, right? They
were like, okay, let's stop fora second, take a deep breath,

(44:08):
and figure out what we're gonnado. And in that process I saw
young people in our communitywere struggling with housing,
like deeply struggling. So thisBizPod program, kids are
building businesses and sleepingin cars and sleeping on couches
and it was just too much.
And so we saw the opportunity totake that and invest it in a

(44:30):
home, so we purchased a home inSoutheast San Diego. Is that
what you call transformation?Transformation house, So that
home was actually built by localman with a beautiful family who
had a heart for the community.He was teaching people on that
property how to do masonry work.This is the exact same thing as

(44:51):
BizPod, but Right.
This very informal thing thatjust happens in community. And
he passed away and his familywas then ready to to kind of
pass the asset along. And wewalked into that space that is
six bedrooms and four bathroomsand then an adjacent piece of
property that that isdevelopable and saw we could

(45:12):
build a village for young peoplehere.
so but the question was how isit going to be different? Right?
And that answer came from youngpeople too. Was like, alright,
look, what you need to learn howto pay rent, right? If you're
gonna be in a space, how's thisgonna work?
How much can you pay? We lookedat their finances, $500 a month.

(45:32):
I said five times $126,000dollars is about the nut that it
takes to get an apartment in SanDiego. Right? First and last,
plus move in, plus, you know,your next month rent.
So we took that $6,000 idea andturned it into a concept of you
can come to the transformationhouse if you're in BizPod
working, and in that process youcan pay $500 a month, it'll be

(45:56):
saved in escrow for you, andit'll be given back to you as
first, last, and move in whenyou graduate after twelve
months. And so that's what wewere
doing, and we had our firstsuccessful young person launch
out into a space in Escondido,and it was going great. And then
we start thinking, wait aminute, we've built a continuum

(46:17):
of support here. A twenty fourhour continuum of support that
might be valuable in the justicespace. Like, what would it look
like if a young person could bein community at the house,
experiencing a familyenvironment, at the recording
studio in a relationallycentered workforce environment

(46:39):
instead of being in prison,right, instead of being in the
justice And so that vision andthat dream is part of has now
entered in as part of what thisis. It's like this, wow.
A young person could actually dothat. And and there's a senate
bill out there, 08/23, thatmight allow for that in that
way.

And yeah. And this is your your idea of really
putting together a system that'san alternative to to
incarceration.

Yeah. As a community based alternative.
Yeah.

With creativity at the core.

With creativity at the core, with relationship
at the core of that.

Yeah. So I would say Mackenzie Scott's big gift
actually had a profound effectfor you and your organization.
Profound. Yeah. You know, I'vegotta say, sitting with you, you
have an extraordinary energy.
You've got this degree of calmabout you that, you know, yes,
you're worried about youreyesight as we get older, so is

(47:37):
everyone else. But I am. But you

you've

got this amazing calm. And how do you stay
grounded in the work and whatyou're doing?

I mean, me, it's Saturday walks. It's prayer
walks. So I'm a man of faith, somy grounding really comes in my
faith. And and also, thecommunity itself keeps me really
grounded. Like, young people arenot just some people that we're
working for or but literallywe're a community.

(48:08):
So 50%, you mentioned all theseyoung people, 55% of the young
people that have graduated theprogram are now our staff. We
have a goal of 02/1930, by 2031to turn my business card over to
them, the next generation. Solike I'm the founder, we'll be
passing that along. And for me,like the community itself is

(48:29):
grounding. I mean, you gottacome see this Grant, because
you're walking through andthere's just young people just
doing amazing stuff.
Stuff that I didn't even thinkwould I mean, it didn't even
seem possible that we'd havedigital artists working here and
there, and we just had a a younglady who was hired by the county
of San Diego to do contentcreation, and and then you got,

(48:51):
like, young people that arenavigating probation and really
struggling, right, with an anklemonitor and

Mhmm.

And trying to figure that whole thing out, but
they're in a place and in aspace that's safe. And they're
getting a chance to work withthese kids, and they're hiring
each other, and the funny stuffthat comes along with kids
working is life giving,

Like give us an example.

Like sitting at a Monday morning meetinbg

You're meeting clearly thinking of something.

It's always something, right? There's always
one or two kids that are pushingthe envelope in the best
possible way, So as much as youbuild structure around the vine,
they're like, woah, I'm comingout here, right? Yeah, there's
That's also life. It's alwayssomething every day that is
funny, but young people are justso full of energy.

(49:36):
How can you not be groundedespecially this next generation?
They're they're fearless. Imean, they're they're fearless.
You

know? Which I find fascinating because it's
certainly not what we read aboutyoung people. You know, we read
about young people beinganxious. Sure. We, you know, we
read about epic levels of ofanxiety in in the young.
And there's so much discussionabout mental health as there
should be. You know, you you andI have touched on that. Mhmm.

(50:06):
But you're saying there'sanother part of the story here.
There is.
And it makes me wanna ask thisquestion, and maybe you can get
at that in the context of thisbroader question. You know, we
have an audience that caresabout community, cares about
what's going on in the worldright now, is worried about
what's going on in the worldright now, and wants to engage
and be helpful. What is it thatyou think the young people

(50:29):
you're working with most needthe rest of us to hear and to
know about them?

That's a really good question.

And is it that they're fearless? Is it that
they're they're courageousdespite their being afraid? I
mean, what

I think the young people that are in our
community that are walkingthrough these justice spaces and
spaces of trying to figure outbasic needs and necessities, I
think they're telling adifferent story. They're telling
the story that if I get achance, I'm gonna do it. It's a
little different. The anxietyfor them is less, it's more

(51:10):
tangible because it's reallyaround resources and issues and
struggles that they're activelywalking through, right? Like the
anxiety comes when they're latefor a probation meeting or they
have something that in theirfamily that's happened that they
feel that they can't communicateto a system.
And those are the anxiousmoments in our community. And so

(51:32):
I think the broader community isdealing with a lot of anxious
moments that I don't want tominimize either. Right? Like the
anxiety of how do I show up inkind of more privileged
opportunities, right? Which is,I'm I'm like, I don't wanna
minimize that because youngpeople genuinely are struggling,
and I don't wanna parse outstruggle.

(51:53):
Right. But but the young peoplein our community are like, I
finally found a place that willinvest in me. Yeah. And not just
run me up on stage, but investin me, right? And you're part of
that community now because thatinvestment is really for them.
And so I think they want you toknow they can do the job. They

(52:16):
also need a little bit of graceand support in the process
because they're growing. Right?So I can do the job would be
where where we're coming from. Ican do the job, and just give me

a shot. I'll show you. You know? So what's
next for David's harp?

What's next? I'm almost scared to ask that
sometimes. He started tradinggood grades for studio time and
ended up with a microenterprise. Yeah. So there's a
there's a couple visions.
One, we have that village thatwe're creating, right? We're in
the process of creating stable,family centered relational
housing. And that's thedifferent, not just housing,

(52:54):
because I don't think housing isenough, But stable family
centered housing where youngpeople can launch from. They
call it the launch pad, by theway, which is so much better
than transformation.

Yeah. I like that. So Yeah. That that's a
great name. I like their name.

I like I like their name better. Yeah. And
then the second the secondsecond project is so we're in
Monacre Warehouse, which is a28,000 square foot brick
building on the corner, F AndSixteenth

Mhmm.

G and Sixteenth. And that building, before COVID,
Moniker Group, the companythat's out of Point Loma, was
running an event space in there.And we were able to walk young
people out of a nonprofit intoan event space where they could
work and help manage that. Theywere doing audio and video.
There was a creative suite ofpeople upstairs that were that

(53:45):
were doing content creation andbranding,

and so

I'd walk kids through this warehouse and they
were their mind was blown. Andit strategically sits right in
between Southeast San Diego, theorange and blue lines, and the
more affluent communities in,you know, north and west. It's
like this perfect meeting spacewhere the community, broader
community, was coming andinteracting with our community.

(54:11):
And so I have a vision torebuild that into an opportunity
youth center where young peopleare not just in a nonprofit
space but have access to abroader community because
there's value there for them aswell. So this event space
concept or like a coworkingspace concept all in this
building with young people thatare navigating probation is a

(54:32):
dream.
Yeah.

Beautiful. Beautiful. You have said
creativity is the language ofhope. Yes. You know, I people
feel all kinds of ways about theconcept of hope right now.
Sure. But I tell us a little bitabout what that means for you.

If we can imagine it as artists, the
opportunity to stop, to justtune out for a second, to use
our creativity, to imaginesomething different is the
essence of creativity. Right? Tosee nothing, to see a void, and
to fill that void, and to fillit with beautiful things. You

(55:11):
know, that's, I think that's notjust the essence of creativity,
but it's the essence ofcreation. And so to look at it
in that way, and to allow youngpeople that time and space to
stop, to be creative, to evensee how to fill the void in
their own heart, is theopportunity that I think
creativity gives to the broaderconversation.

(55:34):
If we can stop for a second, seea void, and think about how we
wanna make it beautiful and fillit, I mean, that's very useful,
like the void in this cup isuseless. It's useful because
it's a void that we can pourwater into. But without that
void and that time and thatspace, I mean, it'd be a block
of a block of glass. In the sameway creativity provides that,

(55:57):
you know, it it is that. Itallows us to be that, You know?
So it's super cool. Beautiful.Beautiful.

Yeah. I'm gonna leave it there. Brandon Stubb
Yeah. What a delight. It's apleasure.
I really appreciate you takingthe time to be with us today.
And more importantly, for theextraordinary work you're doing
in the community.

Thank you so much, Grant. I appreciate it.

You were right. That interview was even better
than I could have imagined.

Yeah. Quite extraordinary for me. I I didn't
have to spend one second duringthe course of the conversation
wondering what to ask nextbecause everything that Brandon
said led to the very next thing.And we kinda ran out of time,
actually, as as is always thecase with the best interviews.

(56:46):
But he touched on so much.

Yeah. I think the number one thing that stood out
to me in this episode was helistened to the kids. Yeah. And
that's what shaped the entiretyof building out these micro
enterprises as he calls it.

Yeah. That was a powerful, powerful thought.
You're right. That that hediscussed at the end how, you
know, as he's juggling thecompeting demands of running
this enterprise and running abusiness and responding to
philanthropists, he's also gottaworry about what's on the kids'
minds and what they want, andthat's how he designs the

(57:24):
business. And and you can tell.
So when he talks abouttransformation house, which the
kids have relabeled Launchpad

Mhmm.

Which I love better, it is you know, that
came from him havingconversations with the young
people about what it was thatthey need. The respect and
engagement that he has with withthe young people in in his
growing ever growing program isa product of relationship he

(57:56):
invests and the and now his teaminvests. So I think I think that
is one of the most importanttakeaways from this is the power
of listening. To me though, theother one that I really have to
come back to is the power ofcreativity, you know, when we
that that that quote aboutcreativity being the language of
hope Mhmm. The way he thinksabout hope as a living thing

(58:20):
that is animated by creativity,and everybody fills that in for
themselves based on their owncreativity, incredibly powerful
in a time when people really arewondering how to hold on to hope
or what hope looks like in a ina very challenging period of
history.

Right. Yeah. I guess I just appreciate
everything. I think this episodespeaks for itself. Mhmm.
So I recommend we leave it therefor today, Grant, because you
were just so on fire in thatconversation.

That's a very nice way of telling me to stop.
Alright. And I'll take it.
Awesome. Yeah.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you. This is a production of the Prebys
Foundation.

Hosted by Grant Oliphant.

Co hosted by Crystal Page.

Co produced by Crystal Page and Adam
Greenfield.

Engineered by Adam Greenfield.

Production coordination by Tess Karesky.

Video production by Edgar Ontiveros Medina.

Special thanks to the Prebys Foundation team.

The Stop and Talk theme song was created by
San Diego's own mister lyricalgroove.

Download episodes at your favorite pod catcher or
visit us at prebysfdn.org.

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