July 3, 2024 • 59 mins
In this episode of Stop & Talk, host Grant Oliphant sits down with Dr. Mary Walshok, an influential thinker and powerhouse in the San Diego community. Recently retired from her role as Vice Chancellor at UC San Diego, Mary spearheaded the creation of Park and Market, a facility designed to support serendipitous interactions and collaboration across sectors. She shares her deep insights into the intersection of innovation, community, and economic development.
Mary reflects on her vibrant life story, from her unique upbringing in Palm Springs to her pivotal contributions to the local academic and civic landscape. She discusses San Diego County’s abundant geographic, cultural, and demographic features, emphasizing how these elements can drive creativity and opportunity. Grant and Mary explore Mary’s vision for a diverse and inclusive community where unexpected encounters foster new ideas and opportunities.
Listen to Mary’s reflections on the role of diversity in innovation, the importance of place, and the value of bringing local and global wisdom together. This episode is a deep dive into how a community can use its unique assets to become a hub of creativity and forward-thinking progress.
This is a production of the Prebys Foundation.
Hosted by Grant Oliphant
Co-Hosted by Crystal Page
Co-produced by Crystal Page and Adam Greenfield
Engineered by Adam Greenfield
Production Assistance by Tess Karesky
The Stop & Talk Theme song was created by San Diego’s own Mr. Lyrical Groove.
Recorded at the Voice of San Diego Podcast Studio
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Crystal Page (00:11):
Hi, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (00:12):
Hi, Crystal.
Crystal Page (00:13):
How are you today?
Grant Oliphant (00:14):
I'm great.
Crystal Page (00:15):
So we're back for season 2 of Stop and Talk.
Grant Oliphant (00:18):
Yes. We are.
Crystal Page (00:19):
And today in studio, we had someone who she
is just a ball of energy. Willyou tell me about who we had in
today?
Grant Oliphant (00:26):
So we had doctor Mary Walshok, who is a force of
nature and a luminary, a longtime luminary in San Diego who
was vice chancellor at theUniversity of San Diego,
recently retired from that role.Principal architect of the
creation of UCSD's facility atPark and Market, but really I
(00:50):
think most importantly for ourlisteners, somebody who's
thought long and hard about therole of innovation in San
Diego's economy, about the roleof the innovation, that happens
here in terms of shaping thecountry and the future of the
world, and just the connectionsbetween creativity at multiple
(01:15):
levels, be it in the arts or intechnology or in the commune in
in the design of ourcommunities, and really thinking
through what the future herecould look like. So an exciting
person, an exciting thinker. Ithink people will enjoy this
interview.
Crystal Page (01:33):
I think you're right. I mean, I know, to
acknowledge, she's also on ourboard at the Prebys Foundation.
Grant Oliphant (01:39):
Oh, yeah. I left that out.
Crystal Page (01:40):
Tell me that. I mean Yeah. Grant, we had her
with at our holiday gathering.Right? And I am just blown away.
She's such a global traveler,but then the way she relays it
in in stories. So, just tell mewhy is on our board, and what do
you what do you hope to hearfrom our team?
Grant Oliphant (01:56):
What's we, we're really blessed to have an
extraordinary board, and we'vegot several interviews with
several board members lined up,for this season, not because
they're board members, butreally because they're
interesting people doingimportant things in the context
of this community and itsimportance for everywhere else.
(02:19):
So Mary is on our board becauseshe is everything I just
described. You know? She is aleading thinker. If you I I
noticed this when I firstarrived in town, and I started
talking to people about whoshould I meet.
1 of the top five people onevery single person's list was
(02:42):
Mary Walshok. And the reason shewas on the list was because she
has lots of stories, and she'swilling to tell them. And she
has lots of insights into SanDiego, and is willing to share
them. And, as I think ourlisteners will hear, she really
has a knack for putting thepieces together in a way that
(03:03):
helps us understand thesignificance of this community
and the potential for thiscommunity.
Crystal Page (03:09):
Well, I'm excited. Can we jump in and hear her?
Grant Oliphant (03:11):
I think we should. Let's do it.
Crystal Page (03:13):
Awesome. Let's do it.
Grant Oliphant (03:17):
Mary Walshok, thanks so much for being here
with me.
Mary Walshok (03:20):
Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (03:21):
I I am at a loss almost for where to begin. You
and I got to know each other 2years ago. You were one of the
first people I met in San Diego,and you kind of knocked my socks
off as people had told me youwould in terms of your breadth
of understanding of thecommunity. And I'm gonna come
back to that. But I actuallywanna start with a story you
(03:44):
just told me before we startedrecording about how your alma
mater asked you to come back todeliver a talk about your life
story.
Mary Walshok (03:54):
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (03:54):
And you came up with a theme. Would you say a
little bit more about what youthink the theme of your life has
been?
Mary Walshok (04:01):
It's a it's a it's a big alumni award. It's my 60th
class. It's for the college, notjust for the class.
Grant Oliphant (04:09):
For Pomona
Mary Walshok (04:10):
for Pomona. College.
Grant Oliphant (04:11):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (04:12):
One of the Claremont Colleges where I had a
wonderful liberal artseducation, and I I've been
reflecting a lot because it's 10minutes.
Grant Oliphant (04:22):
Right.
Mary Walshok (04:23):
And what I realized is the connective
thread for me was how placemattered in terms of my
childhood. I mean, I grew up inPalm Springs, California in the
19 forties, right after WorldWar 2
Grant Oliphant (04:42):
Right.
Mary Walshok (04:43):
With Armenians and Lebanese and holocaust survivors
and movie people, movie stars,directors, and writers, and my
dad having this Swedishrestaurant. And I grew up the
son of - a daughter ofimmigrants and spent time in
Sweden as a child in my fortiesin the 19 forties and fifties.
(05:08):
And all those places, all thoseexperiences, I think, shaped me.
Then I chose my college, smallliberal arts rather than going
to UCLA. Then I chose to get aPhD rather than become an
elementary school teacher likeall the smart girls.
Grant Oliphant (05:24):
That's a big divergence.
Mary Walshok (05:25):
That's a big divergence. So I'm I'm threading
it into my work. And as you knowwell, I've written 6 books, and
I'm writing a 7th now. And theythe what binds them all is place
and how Pittsburgh is differentthan Chicago, and Chicago is
different than Seattle, and SanDiego is different than than,
(05:47):
Phoenix, that sort of thing.
Grant Oliphant (05:49):
Yeah. When I reflect on the very first
conversation you and I had whenwe came to town, and it was
evident in your writings, by theway, that place was a theme for
you. It's how the lens throughwhich you look at things like
innovation, for example. But thethe theme of that very first
discussion was how importantplace is, and and what you hoped
(06:12):
to see would come to pass in SanDiego. Mhmm.
So we're gonna get to that too.But I think part of your message
to me, I mean I remember thesewords very distinctly, you you
said, you know Grant, when theworld wants to know what's going
to happen they come toCalifornia Mhmm. To look at what
where the world is going. Yeah.Yeah.
And and you expressed the hopethat that was also true for San
Diego
(06:36):
and that, and that you thoughtit could be if we leaned into it
in the right way. And theconversation we ended up having
was about what we hoped theywould see. Mhmm. And when you
think about this community as aplace that matters and as a as a
harbinger of a future that youhope may yet be. What is it that
(06:59):
you hope people will see incoming to San Diego?
Mary Walshok (07:03):
Well, I'm actually going to begin with the
geography, topography, andclimate. Yeah. Because this is a
beautiful place to live and playand work, whether you're working
class or super rich. And I thinkwe have the opportunity to
maximize the benefits of thephysical space and access to the
(07:30):
health, healthy and open spaceand and parks and beaches so
that it influences the qualityof life for all people. We don't
have that yet.
I mean, there are still programsthat bring youth from, Southeast
San Diego to the beach, and it'sthe first time they've seen it
and they're 16 years old. Butthe beach is a beautiful place.
Grant Oliphant (07:54):
Right.
Mary Walshok (07:54):
So I do think the physicality and the health
giving qualities of the spaceplace. And I also think a lot of
people respect that. You know,they like the environment. They
like the idea of stealingavocados off my tree or figs or
oranges, and I think so that'simportant. But the demography of
(08:15):
this place is also fascinatingwith our long in Native American
heritage through into Baja andand east, and I grew up in Palm
Springs, the Agua CalienteIndians.
And, this heritage was very richfor me when I was growing up,
and I think it's very, veryimportant. But the the Mexican,
(08:41):
Latino, themes, but also AsianAmericans. Everybody forgets,
you know, where do hot tubs comefrom? You know, Japanese
ryokans. And so that's the thethe ethnic diversity and the
promise of demonstrating howpeople from from very different
backgrounds, very differentreligions, eating very different
(09:02):
kinds of food, and listening todifferent kinds of music can
live together and learn to loveand respect one another.
And then the third thing aboutthis place that just knocks my
socks off is how smart in thepast, I'm not sure we're as
smart today, civic leaders werein making zoning decisions and
(09:26):
making public investments,particularly in the Torrey Pines
Mesa.
Grant Oliphant (09:30):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (09:31):
But even earlier in terms of dredging the harbor
to bring the navy here, thosewere all civic instigated.
Grant Oliphant (09:39):
And the Torrey Pines Mesa is important because
Mary Walshok (09:41):
of the research
Grant Oliphant (09:42):
It's where the that's where all the research
Mary Walshok (09:44):
So now you have Salk and you have, TSRI and UCSD
and probably the number onecenter of NIH research in the
country because of theconcentration of all of those
buildings and activities and thetalent they've been able to
draw.
Grant Oliphant (10:03):
So let's go back to the the diversity of the
region for a moment because Ilove how you put that.
Mary Walshok (10:11):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (10:11):
And as you were saying it, you know, it
resonates for us at thefoundation because we talk about
that a lot. But as you weresaying it, it struck me, and we
live in this time where so manypeople are questioning any talk
about diversity or inclusion Orwhy it matters. From your
(10:32):
perspective, why does it matter?
Mary Walshok (10:35):
Well, I think it matters because I actually
believe if we can tap into thesocial diversity, we've got a
bigger talent pool. Because Ireally do believe, giftedness,
intelligence, mechanicalability, artistic sensibilities
are equally distributed amonggroups. And so if we think it's
(10:58):
only among Anglo Americans, it'sit's at our peril. So number 1
is just pragmatic that we needthe big talent pool, and we
wanna tap into it. But number 2,we live in a global context. So
even though I talk about howmuch place and locale matter, I
(11:22):
also write a lot about howglobal imperatives and global
challenges and opportunitieschange what a place can be And
what it can accomplish. I mean,look at the automobile industry
in Michigan, and that's Yeah.
That change that came with theVolvos and the VWs and the
Grant Oliphant (11:43):
Or steel.
Mary Walshok (11:44):
Toyotas or steel or whatever. But also, here,
everything from tourism tosporting equipment. And so I do
think that living with diversecommunities gives us a window
into a larger world in whichlocals have to be able to
(12:06):
function, gets us comfortablewith difference, gets us
comfortable with diversity. Andfor me, because I'm an arts and
culture vulture, diversity isextraordinary in terms of
enriching the music, the dance,the opera, the theater, the
visual arts that are availableto us. And so it's it's actually
(12:31):
enriching and inspiring.
So it's pragmatic. It'seconomically sound. It's,
emotionally and culturallyenriching, and it's also, if you
live in a democracy, a majorsocial justice issue.
Grant Oliphant (12:49):
And we'll probably touch on many of those
points here, but I wanna spend aminute more on the connection
between innovation andinclusion. Because you've talked
a lot
about this, that it matters tothe future of a community like
ours. And And I would argue acountry like ours, but
Mary Walshok (13:08):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (13:09):
A community like ours that we make the connection
between innovation andinclusion. Can you just say a
little bit more about that
Mary Walshok (13:16):
Well, I'm gonna go back. I have a colleague at
Berkeley by the name of AnnaliseSaxanian, and she, has written
seminal books about the SiliconValley and the Route 128
Corridor and the earlyinnovation hubs route 128,
(13:37):
sorry, in Massachusetts
Grant Oliphant (13:39):
That's right.
Mary Walshok (13:39):
Around Boston. And she, in a single paragraph, came
up with an analogy that I findvery useful. She's saying the
economy is more like arainforest than a plantation.
And if you think about theplantation culture, the
(14:04):
agricultural world, whereeverything was about we can only
grow corn. We can't we gottaeliminate pests.
We've gotta eliminate otherkinds of growth that interfere
with corn. You know, it's like aone trick pony. What's a
rainforest? Totally beautifuland chaotic with continuous
(14:29):
unexpected outcomes, hybrids.New orchids appear.
Right? New flora and faunaprosper because of the synergies
and the connections. And for me,I think there's a social
analogy, which is you can builda society where everybody
believes the same thing, has thesame set of skills, works in the
(14:53):
same industry, but at its peril,it will go out of business or
lose its relevance. But if youcan create communities that are
more like rainforest. So it'snot just about everybody should
have a chance to get a anexisting education or work for
(15:15):
an existing company.
Everybody has to get a chance tobe a creative, an innovator, to
bump into one another becauseit's in those collisions that
innovation and new ideas happen.And that's what I think of as
the importance of diversity toinnovation.
Grant Oliphant (15:37):
I think that's so beautifully said.
Mary Walshok (15:39):
Oh, thank you.
Grant Oliphant (15:39):
No. It's just so beautifully said. And I I I
think what I wanna, make surethat people who are listening
know about you. If they if theyknow you, they know this. But if
they don't know you, they shouldknow that you're not you're no
mere academic just saying thingsthat you, you know, are
(15:59):
pioneering on philosophy.
You've lived this. Yes. Andyou've and you've put real
infrastructure into practice.
Mary Walshok (16:07):
So people can bump into one another.
Grant Oliphant (16:10):
And and I'm thinking specifically right now
of an effort that you led tohave UC San Diego, which is this
booming metropolis of aninnovation hub on the Torrey
Pines Mesa to connect that withthe heart of the of the urban
core
Mary Walshok (16:30):
Right.
Grant Oliphant (16:31):
At a place called Park and Market
Mary Walshok (16:33):
Right.
Grant Oliphant (16:33):
Where you, helped create a building that
connects to the outdoors, thathas a street presence, that,
invites the community in, thatis being used for a variety of
community meetings. What wasyour notion in well, say tell us
a little bit more about how thatcame into being and
Mary Walshok (16:55):
Well, I I mean, I think
Grant Oliphant (16:56):
why why it was important.
Mary Walshok (16:58):
I think the idea of creating settings that
support, chaos and, theunexpected and, easy encounters
and collisions of ideas. And, Ithink when we designed park and
market, we saw it as a kind ofphysical platform to enable
(17:19):
those sorts of engagements.Right. So on the 4th floor is,
we have offices, and the SanDiego economic development
corporation has theirheadquarters there. Those are
the 100 largest employers
Grant Oliphant (17:36):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (17:36):
That belong to that organization. They have
board meetings there, they havecommittee meetings, People are
in and out of the building. Onthe 3rd floor, we have UCSD's
Labor Studies Center, andthey're all about research and
representation of people whowork for those 100 employers,
(18:00):
and they're in the samebuilding. And then there's the
Black Chamber of Commerce, andthere are a couple foundations,
you know, the Burnham Center ForCommunity Advancement, the
Gerard Gerard Foundation, onwhose board I sit, the World
Design Capital, QualcommInstitute from the UCSD campus,
(18:21):
urban studies, public health. Sopeople are bumping into one
another in the elevator, in therestrooms, over the coffee
machines, and getting acquaintedin ways that it might take them
months to just get anappointment with one another.
So it it's it's it's full ofactivities that enable that. And
(18:46):
as you may know, Grant, we alsoconvinced the Digital Gym
Cinema, which is a fabulousprogram Right. Of media
instruction for inner city kids,but also a wonderful fine arts
movie theater. So we showmovies, foreign films, Syrian
(19:08):
Film Festival, the recent LatinoFilm Festival. So I have friends
from the Torrey Pines Mesa whocome from Germany or Sweden or
Italy and say, I really likeyour space downtown.
And I go, oh, what brought you?Oh, we went to see a German
film. And so the cinema, a smallconcert hall that holds 220, and
(19:34):
a forum area where you can haveconferences of up to 300 people.
So it's a place of it's agathering place. It's a platform
that enables social interactionsthat might not otherwise happen.
Grant Oliphant (19:50):
I, I I it is it was an amazing vision, and it
remains an amazing vision. Thethe it's difficult for people to
understand how different theworlds are that you've connected
at either end of this trolleyline, and you've created a place
where the vision that you haveof what San Diego ought to be
(20:14):
actually happens, where ideasbump up against each other. You
mentioned, the, EDC, which isthe Economic Development Council
for San Diego, and MarkCafferty, who heads that
organization and himself is anextraordinary leader, has
described you this way, and Iwanna and I wanna read this
because
Mary Walshok (20:34):
Oh dear oh dear
Grant Oliphant (20:35):
Since you brought it up in that and you
you just evidenced it, but hehas described you as, Mary
Walshok is the storyteller ofour economy, the poet of our
economy. To hear Mary talk aboutour
(20:56):
don't sound like poetrynormally. And that's true. I
think you're
I think you're demonstrating it,but what is it that so excites
you about talking about this inthe way that you do
Mary Walshok (21:07):
Well, I think probably a little bit of it is
I'm a first generation American.My parents were immigrants, and
people could say, oh, blondeblue eyed Swedes, that's not
really an immigrant. Well, inthe 19 thirties, it was. My dad
was the dumb Swede. Can't youcan't you say v's w's instead of
(21:28):
v's, and he never learned how tosay vegetable.
It always was wegetable. Yeah.You know, that sort of thing.
Yeah. So I I was conscious of,differences, but I do think it
goes back to my childhood andthe place where I lived and the
kinds of friends andinteractions in that small
(21:49):
desert town that was veryfocused on the entertainment
industry, which at that time,which was hugely diverse.
Grant Oliphant (21:57):
Right.
Mary Walshok (21:57):
But I think it may also be something in my
religious background. I'm notI'm not sure. But I think that
it's possible, Grant, to do forthe city what we've done in this
little, sort of test case atpark and market. Think if a city
(22:19):
center were designed in somekind of very intentional way to
make it attractive for diversefolks from all over the city to
come into the downtown.
Right? Because of music or foodor conferences or gathering
(22:39):
places or the housing of some ofthe key agencies or
organizations that are importantto them. So I think my idea of
great cities, and maybe my sweetSwedishness too. Swedes are very
interested in, you know, socialpurpose. Purpose, equity, and
(23:00):
fair distribution.
As my father would always say tome, you know, in Sweden, they
don't want you to be too poorjust like in America, but they
also don't want you to be toorich. And so it's much more of a
middle class. So I think a lotof those values inform my ideas.
Grant Oliphant (23:21):
Yeah. And I I am always struck by the multiple
levels of influence andperspectives that you bring into
a conversation about what shouldhappen in San Diego. And I wanna
I wanna come back in a moment toyour idea of of really applying
the same principles that youapplied to park and market, to
(23:42):
the city center, and to the citymore broadly. But I think we
first need to talk about thiscapacity to talk about the world
and talk about the local.
Mary Walshok (23:52):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (23:53):
And in in an exchange that we had, before we
sat down for this interview, youwrote something that really
resonates with me because Ithink it is profoundly true. You
said communities are at theirperil if they either overvalue
local knowledge, so parochialism
Mary Walshok (24:11):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (24:11):
Or undervalue global knowledge. Mhmm. In the
former case, they can make naivedecisions because of a lack of
experience models andalternatives that can come from
a larger perspective, And in thelatter, they run the risk of
relying too much on externalexperts and experiences of other
places when actually localexperience and geography history
(24:34):
and demography, as well aseconomic imperatives are more
important in moving thecommunity forward in a
transformative way. How do youthink San Diego is doing in
terms of balancing the localwith the global?
Mary Walshok (24:50):
Not well.
Grant Oliphant (24:51):
And say more about that. Why not?
Mary Walshok (24:53):
And I think it's because I spend as much time on
the Torrey Pines Mesa as I spenddowntown.
Grant Oliphant (25:00):
So, again, in that research hub, which
is the engine region of SanDiego's economy now.
Mary Walshok (25:05):
Now retired, so I can say things like this in a
podcast. It's a status symbol tosay, why would I read the local
paper? I read the New YorkTimes.
Grant Oliphant (25:15):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (25:15):
I'm an intellectual. I'm a researcher.
But you live in this city. Andso there's a disengagement from
the news, the ideas, theexperiences of the locale in
which many of these globalinstitutions and global players
(25:40):
operate. So we can have, and Ihave friends like this, you
know, deputy, with, you know, inin the federal government,
assistant secretaries of a, b,or c with Madeleine Albright or
with, you know, Janet Yellen,scientists who are extraordinary
(26:07):
collaborating in China andSweden and and California, but
they know nothing and don't caremaybe or just haven't been able
to see why it's important thatthe larger region of which
they're apart is something forthem to know about.
(26:33):
But on the other side, there'sthis local booster enthusiast. I
love all these people, by theway. Don't please don't take my
description
Grant Oliphant (26:44):
These are all our friends.
Mary Walshok (26:45):
All all the people I love, and and and maybe that's
the reason I feel so strongly wecan find ways to bring them
together. But there's also thissort of boosterism kind of, you
know, let's go after big events,annual this, whatever we can to
market the city
Grant Oliphant (27:03):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (27:03):
And what a great place it is. And
Grant Oliphant (27:06):
Why would we need to answer?
Mary Walshok (27:08):
And and and we know how to do that and
disconnected, if you will, fromthe extraordinary changes that
are happening demographically. Imean, the migration patterns
across the world are incrediblysignificant
Grant Oliphant (27:29):
Right.
Mary Walshok (27:29):
To what potentially is going to happen
here. The innovation that'staking place in health care, in
agriculture, in program learningis gonna have a profound
implication profoundimplications for our space.
Material science, how we canbuild buildings, right, and pave
(27:51):
streets. Scientists are doingstuff. So the local has a stake
Crystal Page (27:57):
Right.
Mary Walshok (27:57):
In what the global guys and gals are doing. But the
global guys and gals need toconnect to the local, not out of
a sense of public service, butout of a sense of this is my
place. And this is where myuniversity, my research center,
(28:18):
my children, potentially mygrandchildren may live. And I
think that's a challenge we havein San Diego compared to some
other major cities.
Grant Oliphant (28:28):
Since since you're in the mood for truth
telling And and at a at a stagewhere you feel you can you can
do that
Mary Walshok (28:38):
That's right.
Grant Oliphant (28:39):
I'm gonna try not to get you in trouble Okay.
Kinda. But do you, what are theareas where you think as a
result of that dynamic, SanDiego falls down? Where where
are we lacking where we should
Mary Walshok (28:54):
Something you and I have talked about, and I think
we have to be really honestabout, is there's today and I've
been here 54 years. Okay? And Igrew up only a 100 miles from
here. Today, there is enormouswealth. In fact, recently, you
said to me, there's more wealthin San Diego than in Pittsburgh.
(29:16):
But that wealth is concentratedwhen it comes to philanthropy on
certain kinds of institutionsand endeavors.
Grant Oliphant (29:26):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (29:27):
Many of which relate to research and culture
and museums. And if you will,the passions and the interests
of highly educated global people
Grant Oliphant (29:42):
Right.
Mary Walshok (29:43):
Like you and me. Right. And we love it. I mean, I
love having a La Jolla Playhouseand the old globe, Not
questioning the investments inthat. But what about daycare for
families in low incomeneighborhoods?
What about workforce trainingprograms, for new veterans or
(30:07):
for kids in high school who maynot be college bound. Everything
I think among elites in SanDiego focuses on you can be just
like me. I'll help you go tocollege. You can be like me, and
you can like my theater, and youcan like my music, and you can
like and I think within thecuratorial community in the
(30:31):
arts, we have a lot ofcuratorial people who want to
broaden, to take risks. Right?Like the opera doing the, new
opera on Frito and Diego. Andyou look at some of the
wonderful things Barry Adelsteinis doing. The old globe. Yeah.
The old globe. And I mean andand you look at Rafael Payere
(30:55):
Yeah. And Martha. So these aresort of conventional arts
organizations, which curatorilyare committed to the kind of
diversity, inclusiveness, andmore new voices and new artists.
So I guess what I'm saying isthere's a gap between how people
who could invest in thecommunity, are seeing what needs
(31:21):
to be done to make it a goodcommunity.
And some of the ideas, liberalsocial scientists like me, you
you have about the importance ofbuilding capacity Right. In
lower income communities. Andthe one place you you, where
there is a lot of investment isin pipeline programs. But those
(31:42):
pipeline programs focusexclusively on universities. And
we have seen with San Diego CityCollege and with things like
workshops for warriors and otherprograms in this town.
I'm not touting them, but theyactually produce people who are
essential to our economy andsociety. And we need to invest
(32:06):
in a broader range, in myopinion.
Grant Oliphant (32:08):
You know, in some ways well, actually many
ways, what you're describing isthe story of America at the
moment and a struggle that'shappening all over the country
around bridging these divides.Is there any reason San Diego
(32:30):
especially struggles with it?
Mary Walshok (32:33):
I think it's so new. Mhmm. So as I said to you,
in the 40, 50 years that I'vebeen here, it's transformed. And
it's the whole west has, youknow, this the the wealth
creation and the concentrationof philanthropic money is no
longer on the East Coast.
Grant Oliphant (32:53):
Right.
Mary Walshok (32:53):
It's really moved to the west Right. To Texas, to
California, to Washington. Andso we're young, and we're new at
this.
Grant Oliphant (33:03):
Yeah. Well and and what I wanna underscore in
you talking about these thingsis I think it comes across how
much you love this place.
Mary Walshok (33:11):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (33:11):
And I think sometimes we're afraid to be
critical of places that we lovebecause we're afraid people will
think that we don't love. Mhmm.And in fact, it's evident in
everything you say that you careabout San Diego, you're proud of
San Diego, and you think thereare ways in which San Diego
could do better, and you hopeSan Diego will do better. You
(33:32):
mentioned earlier in ourdiscussion the geniuses from the
past who who created some of thegreat parts of the city. And,
you know, I often look at BalboaPark as an extraordinary asset.
And the cultural institutionsthat were created there as
(33:52):
unique in the country Mhmm. Interms of a physical place that
houses so much Mhmm. In abeautiful setting Mhmm. That is
impossible to rival.
And, you know, there was a lotof wisdom in the community back
then. Yes. When you fast forwardto today, and this, of course,
(34:13):
is what the Prebys Foundation isworking on every single day,
what are the things that we getthe community excited about
doing today?
Mary Walshok (34:24):
Well, if you look at where philanthropy, the bulk
of philanthropy is going,clearly health care and
connecting that to health careequity, right, is a target of
opportunity because there's alot of interest. But can we
(34:44):
speak the truth? Yes. Many ofthe research centers are for the
diseases of the old and dying,and there's not enough being
invested in the young and thegrowing. And you can look at the
data and see it.
And, you know, we have Rady'sChildren's Hospital, and they
(35:05):
now have a research center thatis so exciting. Mhmm. We have a
school, 2 schools of publichealth, 1 at San Diego State, 1
at UCSD. Those are exciting frommy point of view. Those are
investable opportunities.
Urban studies and planning,design labs. Those are
investable, in my opinion. Sothis whole health care sphere
(35:30):
and the talent development, lookat how City College and USD and
SDSU are all trying to build theworkforce of the future in
health care, many of whom burnedout and were lost during COVID.
So that's a sector, but it's notnecessarily the cardiovascular
(35:51):
centers and the you see what Imean? I it's okay.
I think the second thing is thewillingness to invest in
significant arts and culturalorganizations that aren't just
next door to where you live.Okay?
Grant Oliphant (36:09):
Right. Right.
Mary Walshok (36:10):
So the Rady Shell for me is iconic in that way. It
shows that you can get peopletogether
Grant Oliphant (36:21):
Right.
Mary Walshok (36:22):
To invest in a very innovative public private
partnership that culturallyserves an extraordinary array of
people, rock concerts, countryconcerts, classical music, and
it's a hub. I mean, I I feelRady and Park and Market are 2
superb examples.
(36:43):
Well, they they demonstrate thatwe can still do big things
We can do big projects, yes.
3rd space that binds many, manyof us is the environment. And
and I know the Prebys Foundationis very interested in in sort of
some of the catastrophes and theproblems. But, also, you what
(37:06):
you pointed out, parks matter.You know, street lined streets
matter. Sidewalks, lights atnight, pocket parks, places
where children can play andelderly people can get exercise.
Grant Oliphant (37:27):
Right.
Mary Walshok (37:27):
You know, I mean, all of those things are an
investment in the place,maximizing the fact that we can
live outdoors year round, forexample. So there isn't hasn't
yet been the sort of civic willor leadership to emerge on those
sorts of fronts. But for me,those are targets of opportunity
(37:48):
that benefit everyone, whetheryou live on the Torrey Pines
Mesa or Otay Mesa.
Grant Oliphant (37:54):
Yeah. And I I I I wanna underscore them because
I think these are reallypowerful. So the, you know, the
health care of the future Mhmm.Is is 1. The arts that pulls
people together from all overthe community and creates
inspiration for people no matterwhat their background is.
(38:15):
And I agree with you about TheShell, I think it is a wonderful
gathering place for communitythat functions in the same way
that Balboa Park does.
Mary Walshok (38:26):
Yeah. The park. Yes.
Grant Oliphant (38:27):
And then the environment, I would I would
endorse that as well. Andalthough the foundation doesn't
approach environmental issuesRight. Per se, we see the
connection between that andhealth
Mary Walshok (38:41):
Oh, for sure.
Grant Oliphant (38:42):
Very clear terms. Yes. And so for example,
our recent involvement in theTijuana River Right. Valley,
which connected back to one ofthe schools of public health
that you mentioned in researchthey did.
It illustrates that health isvery dependent on the
environment, and you're a 100%right to point to that. I think
what's also interesting aboutthese three examples is that
(39:04):
they are assets San Diego has.
Mary Walshok (39:06):
Yes.
Grant Oliphant (39:06):
So we have a unique environment. Yes. We have
a stunning array of medicalresearch and healthcare
facilities, and we've gotfantastic arts and culture Mhmm.
Resources.
Mary Walshok (39:18):
And we have the social diversity to weave into a
tapestry of a genuinelyintegrated community on all
these fronts.
Grant Oliphant (39:28):
And they're and they're they're I I I I I don't
mean to be repetitive, but it'sworth repeating. They are all
connected in a way you know,quality of life connects to you
you listed things like parks andand and cultural experiences,
and they're all connected to ahealthier view of community,
(39:50):
which as you know is the coreconcept of the work we're doing
at the Prebys Foundation is topromote promote community
well-being. Yes.
Mary Walshok (40:00):
And they all contribute to a sense of
belonging.
Grant Oliphant (40:03):
Right.
Mary Walshok (40:03):
That I belong here.
Grant Oliphant (40:05):
Right.
Mary Walshok (40:06):
And when you create institutions that are
kind of isolated in only highincome neighborhoods, not easy
to get to and park, and youdon't exactly know how to dress
and other things. It it's it itdoesn't have the same effect as
a place like the Shell
Grant Oliphant (40:26):
Right.
Mary Walshok (40:27):
Where you can just kinda walk in. And and I think
from a a social point of view,we have to have many places that
welcome many different people.
Grant Oliphant: And I think this is what you (40:40):
undefined
were pointing to earlier just toclose the loop on this around a
city that mirrors what you'retrying to do at Park and Market.
Mary Walshok (40:48):
Yes
Grant Oliphant (40:48):
Right?
Mary Walshok (40:48):
Well, and I think you brought up the example of
Balboa Park.
Grant Oliphant (40:52):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (40:52):
And I've written a couple of op eds about the park
Yes. Is an example of what how acity can work, and and the Rady
Shell is becoming that. So wehave examples
Grant Oliphant (41:03):
Right.
Mary Walshok (41:03):
Of places where people make an effort to go to
because they feel they're gonnahave a good experience there,
and they're welcome there.
Grant Oliphant (41:12):
So you probably don't define yourself as a
futurist, but I think you're afuturist.
Mary Walshok (41:18):
I'm an optimist Yeah. For sure.
Grant Oliphant (41:20):
I wanna talk about that too. But the you
know, when you when you soyou've studied the past, and
you've looked at some of thestrengths of the moment and the
weaknesses of the moment. Fastforward from today, 20 or 25
years, what do you think are thestrengths of San Diego that we
should be leaning into and thatwill distinguish this community
(41:42):
and help help us in leadingAmerica to a better place Yeah.
As the country comes here to seethe future. What are we gonna be
showing them?
Mary Walshok (41:51):
So let me start in terms of the economy because
everybody frets. Oh, we don'thave Fortune 500 companies. We
don't have headquartercompanies. All of our companies
get acquired and go elsewhere.But I don't think the economy is
dependent on companies.
It's dependent on talent Mhmm.And talented people. So
(42:15):
everything we can do to educate,retain, and retrain our local
talent, whether it's inSoutheast San Diego or on the
Torrey Pines Mesa. We'reinvesting in the innovation, the
entrepreneurs, the supplyvendors, supply service vendors,
(42:39):
and there are a lot of them tothe research community and to
hospitals and to those sorts ofthings. So for me, building
talent that is capable ofadapting to unplanned for
opportunities and challenges isreally important and across a
spectrum.
From a social point of view, Ithink I've already said to you,
(43:02):
my sense is we gotta get peoplestarting to use trolleys and
buses more.
Grant Oliphant (43:08):
Yes. Amen.
Mary Walshok (43:09):
And traveling to more parts of the region.
Grant Oliphant (43:12):
Right.
Mary Walshok (43:12):
But I spend a lot of time at Bread and Salt, which
is in Barrio Logan, onweeknights and weekends. And why
do I go there? Because they gotsuch cool music.
Grant Oliphant (43:23):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (43:24):
And they've got wonderful
so we we need to invest so theplaces are likable and
attractive.
Grant Oliphant (43:39):
And I know you worry as much as anybody about
high housing prices and the costof living in this very expensive
county and the number of peoplewho have been leaving as a
result. Is there a is is there aclear fix for that in this?
Mary Walshok (43:56):
I'm not as sophisticated as perhaps I
should be, but there seems to beexamples in other cities of
smaller housing, units. I mean,my generation grew up oh my god.
(44:17):
I need a house, a garden oceanof water. And 2 a garage for 2
cars.
I've spent enough time in Asianow Yeah. And in, Southern
Europe where people grow up inthe apartments their
grandparents and their parentsgrew up in. And they use public
(44:39):
space and restaurants forgatherings. So I don't have to
have a dining room for 30 peoplebecause I can go to my local pub
or my local bistro and have myparty with 30 people. And that's
a lot of what I've learned frommy encounters with Asia and now
having an Asian daughter-in-lawthat the relationship between
(45:03):
public space and private spaceis very different so that your
private space is smaller.
But and I can and public spaceis parks, but it's also
restaurants and
Grant Oliphant (45:16):
And roads.
Mary Walshok (45:17):
And clubs and Yeah. And event places. So how
you do if I'm making sense Yeah.How you organize your day to day
life? And I think we need tothink about those things.
Grant Oliphant (45:28):
So, Mary, we're, I can't believe it. This has
flown by. We're running out oftime almost, and I but I I wanna
end with, by giving you a minuteto talk about a concept that I
think ties a lot of thesethreads
technology and life sciencesinnovation is the driver of the
(45:51):
economy of the future. So weunderstand that. But in addition
to that, we're we're seeing alot of innovation among
nonprofits and social benefitcorporations, and we're seeing a
real commitment to mission andto community.
That's a theme for young peoplein today's economy, and they
(46:11):
wanna see that. Happens to be astrength that San Diego could
leverage. What is the future forsocial innovation in San Diego?
Mary Walshok (46:19):
Well, I think it really needs to be nurtured
locally but informed globally.I'm sorry. I'm gonna go back
back to that theme
Grant Oliphant (46:27):
no. Let's bring it back
Mary Walshok (46:28):
to that. To that theme because I think just as in
technology and science, you needto know what's going on at
Harvard. You need to know what'sgoing on at Shanghai University
and at Uppsala to do your work.We who want to be social
innovators need to ask, are theydoing something in Memphis or
(46:51):
Seattle or Newark that could berelevant to us? And I think
we're mired in our own sort oflocal conversations and
experimentation.
So people wanna be experimental.But I think they're the
imagination is not as wide andas enriched. And I don't think
(47:13):
the confidence in socialinnovation is as high
Grant Oliphant (47:17):
As it could be
Mary Walshok (47:17):
be. It as it could be because when you see others
who've done it well Yeah. Andit's not just in your own
community. So we're alwayssaying we gotta consult with
local groups. I absolutely agreewith that.
But we also have to look for theexciting ideas that are in other
places and integrate them intoour local conversations.
Grant Oliphant (47:39):
Well, I I just wanna say, Mary Walshok, thank
you for doing this interview.But more importantly, thank you
for the role that you play asthe poet of the regional
economy, to quote, Mark. Butthe, you know, I think the the
willingness to say to acommunity that that has amazing
(48:01):
great aspects that it can alsostill continue to improve Yeah.
Is an important role that youplay. And I I just wanna say
thank you on behalf of all of us
Mary Walshok (48:11):
Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (48:11):
By the way, Sweden's loss are our gain.
Mary Walshok (48:14):
I know. Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (48:16):
Yes. Thank you.
Crystal Page (48:21):
Wow. That was an amazing interview, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (48:24):
Yeah. That was that was extraordinary. You
know, I I I think the, commentthat I shared with her from the
EDC leader, Mark Cafferty, aboutMary being the poet of the
economy really resonates afterthat conversation. She is able
to talk about the economicimportance, value,
(48:49):
opportunities, challenges, areasfor improvement for this region
in a way that I've rarely seenpeople talk about those
subjects.
Crystal Page (48:59):
And let me ask you, Grant, because what I love
about Mary is not just herenergy. She's a strong
storyteller.
Grant Oliphant (49:05):
Yeah.
Crystal Page (49:05):
But what do you take away in terms of the
opportunities ahead based onwhat Mary said?
Grant Oliphant (49:10):
No. I think I'd what I loved especially in this
interview was the way she keptputting together the the diverse
parts of our region and ourpeople and our disciplines that
exist here. So she kept makingthe connection, for example,
between the arts and culture andcreativity with the innovation
(49:34):
happening at the universitiesand on Torrey Pines, Mesa, and
arguably in some other placesaround the region as well. But,
you know, that that's sort ofthe metaphor. And and the and
the opportunity to designintentionally a community that
leverages the diversity of itspeople, the diversity of its art
(49:58):
forms, the diversity of itsthinking, the creativity that
comes out of its sources ofinnovation, that the way she
kept putting those piecestogether was for me really
exciting.
Crystal Page (50:11):
And knowing, you know, you're the CEO of the
Prebys Foundation, and she talksabout, like, cross cutting.
Right? Having people in same thesame buildings and things, I
think. Did she inspire you todayto step out on a certain issue
or to go forward? Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (50:25):
Well, I've been you know? Look. I've been
talking to Mary for 2 years, andI'm, I was inspired by her the
very first time I talked to her.And I I mentioned this during
the interview, but I, I wasstruck in our very first
conversation by how she wasthinking in global terms about
the importance of this communityand how she she thought about
(50:50):
the fact that the world turns tothis engine of creativity,
California, to figure out wherethe world is going. And and why
is that?
It's not just becauseCalifornia's great and it's got
it is because it puts togetherthose pieces that she was
talking about. Different peoplewith different ideas bump up
(51:13):
against each other, and fromthat comes these amazing new
inventions and innovations. Andand so I was struck by how she
kept bringing that home to whatshe hoped San Diego would be.
And I heard the same thing inthis conversation today, just a
little more fleshed out becausewe had more time to talk about
(51:35):
it than we did in our firstmeeting. And I am inspired by
what I see as the immense youknow, not every not every
community in America gets tostart with the diverse
population that we have, and shementioned that.
Not every community in Americagets to start with the amazing
(51:56):
assets of innovation in theuniversities and research
centers. Not every community inAmerica gets to start with the
amazing range of arts andculture, artists and performance
venues, and assets that existhere. We have all of those
things. And then she talkedabout the environment and the
(52:19):
role of nature. And, again, notevery community in America gets
to live outdoors most of theyear.
So there is something magicalabout this place. I used that
term. She didn't. But it'sbecause for me, I see the
convergence of those elementsthat she was talking about as
(52:39):
the really inspiring future ofSan Diego that we should all
want to lean into and be excitedabout. But let me reverse the
question and ask about you.
What inspired you?
Crystal Page (52:51):
You know, I think it's something that you and I
always talk about. I think Marypushes us a little bit on this
whole concept of valuing thelocal, but at the same time, not
undervaluing the global. Right?I think that that's a dance or
it's a convergence, as you justsaid. How do we value both of
those things and welcome them toallow all those new ideas to
(53:14):
come forward.
So I think she's left me in deepthought. I will probably be in
deep thought for a few weeksbecause of it. Yeah. But I think
that was the part I reallywanted
all these issues, all theseexciting ideas that we have at
(53:34):
this moment in time. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (53:36):
Well, I I I saw that part of our conversation as
really being a challenge for us,for the Prebys Foundation, for
the community at large. It is soeasy to fall into the trap of
thinking you've got your acttogether, and that you're
perfect when you do have greatelements to your act, and people
(53:58):
seem to be responsive to it.Right? So what she was saying in
part was, yeah, we've got theseamazing, incredible components
to our community, and they'renot enough. To that, you also
have to add the expertise andthe wisdom that comes from the
outside.
(54:20):
And that's not enough. You haveto come back to the wisdom that
exists here in the community andthe and the insights that you
get from being in communityhere. So I think at some point
in our conversation, we used theterm that's the dance, and and I
I think that's the dance. Youknow? What what we ended up
(54:40):
talking about a lot was how itis important for a community
like San Diego's, which is awhether whether it thinks about
itself this way or not, is aglobal city, That we are
constantly toggling back andforth between what the world can
teach us and what we can teachthe world, and maybe more
(55:04):
importantly, what we can teachourselves.
That all of that is reallyimportant. And I I found that to
be really exciting, but to yourpoint, kind of thought provoking
in terms of understanding how toactualize that every day. You
know, how do you how do you makethat real every single day? And
I think the answer is, you focuson the tasks in front of you,
(55:29):
but you think very broadly aboutthe way in which they play out
and for whom. You know?
That was another takeaway forme, and I I know you you keyed
in on this as well. But the wayin which she talked about the
importance of inclusion anddiversity in this community, she
(55:50):
talked about it in local terms,but she also talked about it as
being part of a global economyand understanding that who we
are is actually part of ourstrength. I love that.
Crystal Page (56:02):
No. I agree with you. When she talked about her
daughter-in-law who comes from,I forget which country she said,
but basically, there's wisdom tobe learned from all these
different folks we interactwith. Right? So, like, the fact
that her daughter-in-law camefrom sharing an apartment with
her possibly parents andgrandparents and that whole idea
of, like, we don't all have tohave 4 bedrooms, a giant
(56:25):
backyard and things.
In fact, not everybody wantsthat. You know? And so it's how
do we learn from what's workingin other cities, what has worked
here, what can work here in thefuture. I really love that you
labeled her a futurist because II think you're right. She
definitely sees multiple optionsfor us if we make good and solid
decisions for our region.
Grant Oliphant (56:44):
You know, the the the challenge in a
conversation with someone likeMary is, there's so much on the
table that it can be daunting tothink about it all. But I think
what we should be veryencouraged about is that we have
lots of people, maybe not likeMary because she is a singular
(57:07):
person, but we have lots ofpeople working in connected
spaces, really leading thiscommunity forward in exciting
directions. And what I walkedaway from this conversation
feeling is incredibly positiveabout the future. Is that how
you felt?
Crystal Page (57:23):
A 100%.
Grant Oliphant (57:24):
Yeah.
Crystal Page (57:25):
I mean, I just always loved being around Mary.
She just has this hope, thisbubbling hope and knowledge and
connection, but, you know, whatI took away is we can do hard
things, and San Diego willcontinue to do hard things. You
know?
Grant Oliphant (57:38):
Yeah. Well, this was terrific, and I I'm really
grateful to get to do this withyou. You actually asked a fan
fantastic question of her whenwe were off air about who her
favorite graduates are, and Ithought it was wonderful that
she answered the artists and thecreators, and and I hope the
(58:00):
artists and the creators who arelistening will see themselves
very much in the picture thatwe're talking about here. The
creativity that happens in SanDiego is broadly shared across a
whole range of disciplines, andit's a magical thing.
Crystal Page (58:16):
Excellent work, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (58:18):
Excellent work, Crystal. Thank you. This is a
production of the PrebysFoundation, hosted by Grant
Oliphant, and co hosted byCrystal Page. The program is co
produced by Crystal Page andAdam
(58:43):
and our new theme song is bymister Lyrical Groove, a local
San Diego artist. Downloadepisodes at your favorite
podcatcher or visit us at stopand talk podcast dot org.
If you like this show, and wereally hope you do, the best way
to support it is to share,subscribe, and review our
(59:06):
podcast. Thank you for yoursupport, your ideas, and most of
all, for listening. This programhas been recorded at The Voice
of San Diego Podcast Studio.
Hi, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (00:12):
Hi, Crystal.
Crystal Page (00:13):
How are you today?
Grant Oliphant (00:14):
I'm great.
Crystal Page (00:15):
So we're back for season 2 of Stop and Talk.
Grant Oliphant (00:18):
Yes. We are.
Crystal Page (00:19):
And today in studio, we had someone who she
is just a ball of energy. Willyou tell me about who we had in
today?
Grant Oliphant (00:26):
So we had doctor Mary Walshok, who is a force of
nature and a luminary, a longtime luminary in San Diego who
was vice chancellor at theUniversity of San Diego,
recently retired from that role.Principal architect of the
creation of UCSD's facility atPark and Market, but really I
(00:50):
think most importantly for ourlisteners, somebody who's
thought long and hard about therole of innovation in San
Diego's economy, about the roleof the innovation, that happens
here in terms of shaping thecountry and the future of the
world, and just the connectionsbetween creativity at multiple
(01:15):
levels, be it in the arts or intechnology or in the commune in
in the design of ourcommunities, and really thinking
through what the future herecould look like. So an exciting
person, an exciting thinker. Ithink people will enjoy this
interview.
Crystal Page (01:33):
I think you're right. I mean, I know, to
acknowledge, she's also on ourboard at the Prebys Foundation.
Grant Oliphant (01:39):
Oh, yeah. I left that out.
Crystal Page (01:40):
Tell me that. I mean Yeah. Grant, we had her
with at our holiday gathering.Right? And I am just blown away.
She's such a global traveler,but then the way she relays it
in in stories. So, just tell mewhy is on our board, and what do
you what do you hope to hearfrom our team?
Grant Oliphant (01:56):
What's we, we're really blessed to have an
extraordinary board, and we'vegot several interviews with
several board members lined up,for this season, not because
they're board members, butreally because they're
interesting people doingimportant things in the context
of this community and itsimportance for everywhere else.
(02:19):
So Mary is on our board becauseshe is everything I just
described. You know? She is aleading thinker. If you I I
noticed this when I firstarrived in town, and I started
talking to people about whoshould I meet.
1 of the top five people onevery single person's list was
(02:42):
Mary Walshok. And the reason shewas on the list was because she
has lots of stories, and she'swilling to tell them. And she
has lots of insights into SanDiego, and is willing to share
them. And, as I think ourlisteners will hear, she really
has a knack for putting thepieces together in a way that
(03:03):
helps us understand thesignificance of this community
and the potential for thiscommunity.
Crystal Page (03:09):
Well, I'm excited. Can we jump in and hear her?
Grant Oliphant (03:11):
I think we should. Let's do it.
Crystal Page (03:13):
Awesome. Let's do it.
Grant Oliphant (03:17):
Mary Walshok, thanks so much for being here
with me.
Mary Walshok (03:20):
Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (03:21):
I I am at a loss almost for where to begin. You
and I got to know each other 2years ago. You were one of the
first people I met in San Diego,and you kind of knocked my socks
off as people had told me youwould in terms of your breadth
of understanding of thecommunity. And I'm gonna come
back to that. But I actuallywanna start with a story you
(03:44):
just told me before we startedrecording about how your alma
mater asked you to come back todeliver a talk about your life
story.
Mary Walshok (03:54):
Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (03:54):
And you came up with a theme. Would you say a
little bit more about what youthink the theme of your life has
been?
Mary Walshok (04:01):
It's a it's a it's a big alumni award. It's my 60th
class. It's for the college, notjust for the class.
Grant Oliphant (04:09):
For Pomona
Mary Walshok (04:10):
for Pomona. College.
Grant Oliphant (04:11):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (04:12):
One of the Claremont Colleges where I had a
wonderful liberal artseducation, and I I've been
reflecting a lot because it's 10minutes.
Grant Oliphant (04:22):
Right.
Mary Walshok (04:23):
And what I realized is the connective
thread for me was how placemattered in terms of my
childhood. I mean, I grew up inPalm Springs, California in the
19 forties, right after WorldWar 2
Grant Oliphant (04:42):
Right.
Mary Walshok (04:43):
With Armenians and Lebanese and holocaust survivors
and movie people, movie stars,directors, and writers, and my
dad having this Swedishrestaurant. And I grew up the
son of - a daughter ofimmigrants and spent time in
Sweden as a child in my fortiesin the 19 forties and fifties.
(05:08):
And all those places, all thoseexperiences, I think, shaped me.
Then I chose my college, smallliberal arts rather than going
to UCLA. Then I chose to get aPhD rather than become an
elementary school teacher likeall the smart girls.
Grant Oliphant (05:24):
That's a big divergence.
Mary Walshok (05:25):
That's a big divergence. So I'm I'm threading
it into my work. And as you knowwell, I've written 6 books, and
I'm writing a 7th now. And theythe what binds them all is place
and how Pittsburgh is differentthan Chicago, and Chicago is
different than Seattle, and SanDiego is different than than,
(05:47):
Phoenix, that sort of thing.
Grant Oliphant (05:49):
Yeah. When I reflect on the very first
conversation you and I had whenwe came to town, and it was
evident in your writings, by theway, that place was a theme for
you. It's how the lens throughwhich you look at things like
innovation, for example. But thethe theme of that very first
discussion was how importantplace is, and and what you hoped
(06:12):
to see would come to pass in SanDiego. Mhmm.
So we're gonna get to that too.But I think part of your message
to me, I mean I remember thesewords very distinctly, you you
said, you know Grant, when theworld wants to know what's going
to happen they come toCalifornia Mhmm. To look at what
where the world is going. Yeah.Yeah.
And and you expressed the hopethat that was also true for San
Diego
(06:36):
and that, and that you thoughtit could be if we leaned into it
in the right way. And theconversation we ended up having
was about what we hoped theywould see. Mhmm. And when you
think about this community as aplace that matters and as a as a
harbinger of a future that youhope may yet be. What is it that
(06:59):
you hope people will see incoming to San Diego?
Mary Walshok (07:03):
Well, I'm actually going to begin with the
geography, topography, andclimate. Yeah. Because this is a
beautiful place to live and playand work, whether you're working
class or super rich. And I thinkwe have the opportunity to
maximize the benefits of thephysical space and access to the
(07:30):
health, healthy and open spaceand and parks and beaches so
that it influences the qualityof life for all people. We don't
have that yet.
I mean, there are still programsthat bring youth from, Southeast
San Diego to the beach, and it'sthe first time they've seen it
and they're 16 years old. Butthe beach is a beautiful place.
Grant Oliphant (07:54):
Right.
Mary Walshok (07:54):
So I do think the physicality and the health
giving qualities of the spaceplace. And I also think a lot of
people respect that. You know,they like the environment. They
like the idea of stealingavocados off my tree or figs or
oranges, and I think so that'simportant. But the demography of
(08:15):
this place is also fascinatingwith our long in Native American
heritage through into Baja andand east, and I grew up in Palm
Springs, the Agua CalienteIndians.
And, this heritage was very richfor me when I was growing up,
and I think it's very, veryimportant. But the the Mexican,
(08:41):
Latino, themes, but also AsianAmericans. Everybody forgets,
you know, where do hot tubs comefrom? You know, Japanese
ryokans. And so that's the thethe ethnic diversity and the
promise of demonstrating howpeople from from very different
backgrounds, very differentreligions, eating very different
(09:02):
kinds of food, and listening todifferent kinds of music can
live together and learn to loveand respect one another.
And then the third thing aboutthis place that just knocks my
socks off is how smart in thepast, I'm not sure we're as
smart today, civic leaders werein making zoning decisions and
(09:26):
making public investments,particularly in the Torrey Pines
Mesa.
Grant Oliphant (09:30):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (09:31):
But even earlier in terms of dredging the harbor
to bring the navy here, thosewere all civic instigated.
Grant Oliphant (09:39):
And the Torrey Pines Mesa is important because
Mary Walshok (09:41):
of the research
Grant Oliphant (09:42):
It's where the that's where all the research
Mary Walshok (09:44):
So now you have Salk and you have, TSRI and UCSD
and probably the number onecenter of NIH research in the
country because of theconcentration of all of those
buildings and activities and thetalent they've been able to
draw.
Grant Oliphant (10:03):
So let's go back to the the diversity of the
region for a moment because Ilove how you put that.
Mary Walshok (10:11):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (10:11):
And as you were saying it, you know, it
resonates for us at thefoundation because we talk about
that a lot. But as you weresaying it, it struck me, and we
live in this time where so manypeople are questioning any talk
about diversity or inclusion Orwhy it matters. From your
(10:32):
perspective, why does it matter?
Mary Walshok (10:35):
Well, I think it matters because I actually
believe if we can tap into thesocial diversity, we've got a
bigger talent pool. Because Ireally do believe, giftedness,
intelligence, mechanicalability, artistic sensibilities
are equally distributed amonggroups. And so if we think it's
(10:58):
only among Anglo Americans, it'sit's at our peril. So number 1
is just pragmatic that we needthe big talent pool, and we
wanna tap into it. But number 2,we live in a global context. So
even though I talk about howmuch place and locale matter, I
(11:22):
also write a lot about howglobal imperatives and global
challenges and opportunitieschange what a place can be And
what it can accomplish. I mean,look at the automobile industry
in Michigan, and that's Yeah.
That change that came with theVolvos and the VWs and the
Grant Oliphant (11:43):
Or steel.
Mary Walshok (11:44):
Toyotas or steel or whatever. But also, here,
everything from tourism tosporting equipment. And so I do
think that living with diversecommunities gives us a window
into a larger world in whichlocals have to be able to
(12:06):
function, gets us comfortablewith difference, gets us
comfortable with diversity. Andfor me, because I'm an arts and
culture vulture, diversity isextraordinary in terms of
enriching the music, the dance,the opera, the theater, the
visual arts that are availableto us. And so it's it's actually
(12:31):
enriching and inspiring.
So it's pragmatic. It'seconomically sound. It's,
emotionally and culturallyenriching, and it's also, if you
live in a democracy, a majorsocial justice issue.
Grant Oliphant (12:49):
And we'll probably touch on many of those
points here, but I wanna spend aminute more on the connection
between innovation andinclusion. Because you've talked
a lot
about this, that it matters tothe future of a community like
ours. And And I would argue acountry like ours, but
Mary Walshok (13:08):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (13:09):
A community like ours that we make the connection
between innovation andinclusion. Can you just say a
little bit more about that
Mary Walshok (13:16):
Well, I'm gonna go back. I have a colleague at
Berkeley by the name of AnnaliseSaxanian, and she, has written
seminal books about the SiliconValley and the Route 128
Corridor and the earlyinnovation hubs route 128,
(13:37):
sorry, in Massachusetts
Grant Oliphant (13:39):
That's right.
Mary Walshok (13:39):
Around Boston. And she, in a single paragraph, came
up with an analogy that I findvery useful. She's saying the
economy is more like arainforest than a plantation.
And if you think about theplantation culture, the
(14:04):
agricultural world, whereeverything was about we can only
grow corn. We can't we gottaeliminate pests.
We've gotta eliminate otherkinds of growth that interfere
with corn. You know, it's like aone trick pony. What's a
rainforest? Totally beautifuland chaotic with continuous
(14:29):
unexpected outcomes, hybrids.New orchids appear.
Right? New flora and faunaprosper because of the synergies
and the connections. And for me,I think there's a social
analogy, which is you can builda society where everybody
believes the same thing, has thesame set of skills, works in the
(14:53):
same industry, but at its peril,it will go out of business or
lose its relevance. But if youcan create communities that are
more like rainforest. So it'snot just about everybody should
have a chance to get a anexisting education or work for
(15:15):
an existing company.
Everybody has to get a chance tobe a creative, an innovator, to
bump into one another becauseit's in those collisions that
innovation and new ideas happen.And that's what I think of as
the importance of diversity toinnovation.
Grant Oliphant (15:37):
I think that's so beautifully said.
Mary Walshok (15:39):
Oh, thank you.
Grant Oliphant (15:39):
No. It's just so beautifully said. And I I I
think what I wanna, make surethat people who are listening
know about you. If they if theyknow you, they know this. But if
they don't know you, they shouldknow that you're not you're no
mere academic just saying thingsthat you, you know, are
(15:59):
pioneering on philosophy.
You've lived this. Yes. Andyou've and you've put real
infrastructure into practice.
Mary Walshok (16:07):
So people can bump into one another.
Grant Oliphant (16:10):
And and I'm thinking specifically right now
of an effort that you led tohave UC San Diego, which is this
booming metropolis of aninnovation hub on the Torrey
Pines Mesa to connect that withthe heart of the of the urban
core
Mary Walshok (16:30):
Right.
Grant Oliphant (16:31):
At a place called Park and Market
Mary Walshok (16:33):
Right.
Grant Oliphant (16:33):
Where you, helped create a building that
connects to the outdoors, thathas a street presence, that,
invites the community in, thatis being used for a variety of
community meetings. What wasyour notion in well, say tell us
a little bit more about how thatcame into being and
Mary Walshok (16:55):
Well, I I mean, I think
Grant Oliphant (16:56):
why why it was important.
Mary Walshok (16:58):
I think the idea of creating settings that
support, chaos and, theunexpected and, easy encounters
and collisions of ideas. And, Ithink when we designed park and
market, we saw it as a kind ofphysical platform to enable
(17:19):
those sorts of engagements.Right. So on the 4th floor is,
we have offices, and the SanDiego economic development
corporation has theirheadquarters there. Those are
the 100 largest employers
Grant Oliphant (17:36):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (17:36):
That belong to that organization. They have
board meetings there, they havecommittee meetings, People are
in and out of the building. Onthe 3rd floor, we have UCSD's
Labor Studies Center, andthey're all about research and
representation of people whowork for those 100 employers,
(18:00):
and they're in the samebuilding. And then there's the
Black Chamber of Commerce, andthere are a couple foundations,
you know, the Burnham Center ForCommunity Advancement, the
Gerard Gerard Foundation, onwhose board I sit, the World
Design Capital, QualcommInstitute from the UCSD campus,
(18:21):
urban studies, public health. Sopeople are bumping into one
another in the elevator, in therestrooms, over the coffee
machines, and getting acquaintedin ways that it might take them
months to just get anappointment with one another.
So it it's it's it's full ofactivities that enable that. And
(18:46):
as you may know, Grant, we alsoconvinced the Digital Gym
Cinema, which is a fabulousprogram Right. Of media
instruction for inner city kids,but also a wonderful fine arts
movie theater. So we showmovies, foreign films, Syrian
(19:08):
Film Festival, the recent LatinoFilm Festival. So I have friends
from the Torrey Pines Mesa whocome from Germany or Sweden or
Italy and say, I really likeyour space downtown.
And I go, oh, what brought you?Oh, we went to see a German
film. And so the cinema, a smallconcert hall that holds 220, and
(19:34):
a forum area where you can haveconferences of up to 300 people.
So it's a place of it's agathering place. It's a platform
that enables social interactionsthat might not otherwise happen.
Grant Oliphant (19:50):
I, I I it is it was an amazing vision, and it
remains an amazing vision. Thethe it's difficult for people to
understand how different theworlds are that you've connected
at either end of this trolleyline, and you've created a place
where the vision that you haveof what San Diego ought to be
(20:14):
actually happens, where ideasbump up against each other. You
mentioned, the, EDC, which isthe Economic Development Council
for San Diego, and MarkCafferty, who heads that
organization and himself is anextraordinary leader, has
described you this way, and Iwanna and I wanna read this
because
Mary Walshok (20:34):
Oh dear oh dear
Grant Oliphant (20:35):
Since you brought it up in that and you
you just evidenced it, but hehas described you as, Mary
Walshok is the storyteller ofour economy, the poet of our
economy. To hear Mary talk aboutour
(20:56):
don't sound like poetrynormally. And that's true. I
think you're
I think you're demonstrating it,but what is it that so excites
you about talking about this inthe way that you do
Mary Walshok (21:07):
Well, I think probably a little bit of it is
I'm a first generation American.My parents were immigrants, and
people could say, oh, blondeblue eyed Swedes, that's not
really an immigrant. Well, inthe 19 thirties, it was. My dad
was the dumb Swede. Can't youcan't you say v's w's instead of
(21:28):
v's, and he never learned how tosay vegetable.
It always was wegetable. Yeah.You know, that sort of thing.
Yeah. So I I was conscious of,differences, but I do think it
goes back to my childhood andthe place where I lived and the
kinds of friends andinteractions in that small
(21:49):
desert town that was veryfocused on the entertainment
industry, which at that time,which was hugely diverse.
Grant Oliphant (21:57):
Right.
Mary Walshok (21:57):
But I think it may also be something in my
religious background. I'm notI'm not sure. But I think that
it's possible, Grant, to do forthe city what we've done in this
little, sort of test case atpark and market. Think if a city
(22:19):
center were designed in somekind of very intentional way to
make it attractive for diversefolks from all over the city to
come into the downtown.
Right? Because of music or foodor conferences or gathering
(22:39):
places or the housing of some ofthe key agencies or
organizations that are importantto them. So I think my idea of
great cities, and maybe my sweetSwedishness too. Swedes are very
interested in, you know, socialpurpose. Purpose, equity, and
(23:00):
fair distribution.
As my father would always say tome, you know, in Sweden, they
don't want you to be too poorjust like in America, but they
also don't want you to be toorich. And so it's much more of a
middle class. So I think a lotof those values inform my ideas.
Grant Oliphant (23:21):
Yeah. And I I am always struck by the multiple
levels of influence andperspectives that you bring into
a conversation about what shouldhappen in San Diego. And I wanna
I wanna come back in a moment toyour idea of of really applying
the same principles that youapplied to park and market, to
(23:42):
the city center, and to the citymore broadly. But I think we
first need to talk about thiscapacity to talk about the world
and talk about the local.
Mary Walshok (23:52):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (23:53):
And in in an exchange that we had, before we
sat down for this interview, youwrote something that really
resonates with me because Ithink it is profoundly true. You
said communities are at theirperil if they either overvalue
local knowledge, so parochialism
Mary Walshok (24:11):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (24:11):
Or undervalue global knowledge. Mhmm. In the
former case, they can make naivedecisions because of a lack of
experience models andalternatives that can come from
a larger perspective, And in thelatter, they run the risk of
relying too much on externalexperts and experiences of other
places when actually localexperience and geography history
(24:34):
and demography, as well aseconomic imperatives are more
important in moving thecommunity forward in a
transformative way. How do youthink San Diego is doing in
terms of balancing the localwith the global?
Mary Walshok (24:50):
Not well.
Grant Oliphant (24:51):
And say more about that. Why not?
Mary Walshok (24:53):
And I think it's because I spend as much time on
the Torrey Pines Mesa as I spenddowntown.
Grant Oliphant (25:00):
So, again, in that research hub, which
is the engine region of SanDiego's economy now.
Mary Walshok (25:05):
Now retired, so I can say things like this in a
podcast. It's a status symbol tosay, why would I read the local
paper? I read the New YorkTimes.
Grant Oliphant (25:15):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (25:15):
I'm an intellectual. I'm a researcher.
But you live in this city. Andso there's a disengagement from
the news, the ideas, theexperiences of the locale in
which many of these globalinstitutions and global players
(25:40):
operate. So we can have, and Ihave friends like this, you
know, deputy, with, you know, inin the federal government,
assistant secretaries of a, b,or c with Madeleine Albright or
with, you know, Janet Yellen,scientists who are extraordinary
(26:07):
collaborating in China andSweden and and California, but
they know nothing and don't caremaybe or just haven't been able
to see why it's important thatthe larger region of which
they're apart is something forthem to know about.
(26:33):
But on the other side, there'sthis local booster enthusiast. I
love all these people, by theway. Don't please don't take my
description
Grant Oliphant (26:44):
These are all our friends.
Mary Walshok (26:45):
All all the people I love, and and and maybe that's
the reason I feel so strongly wecan find ways to bring them
together. But there's also thissort of boosterism kind of, you
know, let's go after big events,annual this, whatever we can to
market the city
Grant Oliphant (27:03):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (27:03):
And what a great place it is. And
Grant Oliphant (27:06):
Why would we need to answer?
Mary Walshok (27:08):
And and and we know how to do that and
disconnected, if you will, fromthe extraordinary changes that
are happening demographically. Imean, the migration patterns
across the world are incrediblysignificant
Grant Oliphant (27:29):
Right.
Mary Walshok (27:29):
To what potentially is going to happen
here. The innovation that'staking place in health care, in
agriculture, in program learningis gonna have a profound
implication profoundimplications for our space.
Material science, how we canbuild buildings, right, and pave
(27:51):
streets. Scientists are doingstuff. So the local has a stake
Crystal Page (27:57):
Right.
Mary Walshok (27:57):
In what the global guys and gals are doing. But the
global guys and gals need toconnect to the local, not out of
a sense of public service, butout of a sense of this is my
place. And this is where myuniversity, my research center,
(28:18):
my children, potentially mygrandchildren may live. And I
think that's a challenge we havein San Diego compared to some
other major cities.
Grant Oliphant (28:28):
Since since you're in the mood for truth
telling And and at a at a stagewhere you feel you can you can
do that
Mary Walshok (28:38):
That's right.
Grant Oliphant (28:39):
I'm gonna try not to get you in trouble Okay.
Kinda. But do you, what are theareas where you think as a
result of that dynamic, SanDiego falls down? Where where
are we lacking where we should
Mary Walshok (28:54):
Something you and I have talked about, and I think
we have to be really honestabout, is there's today and I've
been here 54 years. Okay? And Igrew up only a 100 miles from
here. Today, there is enormouswealth. In fact, recently, you
said to me, there's more wealthin San Diego than in Pittsburgh.
(29:16):
But that wealth is concentratedwhen it comes to philanthropy on
certain kinds of institutionsand endeavors.
Grant Oliphant (29:26):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (29:27):
Many of which relate to research and culture
and museums. And if you will,the passions and the interests
of highly educated global people
Grant Oliphant (29:42):
Right.
Mary Walshok (29:43):
Like you and me. Right. And we love it. I mean, I
love having a La Jolla Playhouseand the old globe, Not
questioning the investments inthat. But what about daycare for
families in low incomeneighborhoods?
What about workforce trainingprograms, for new veterans or
(30:07):
for kids in high school who maynot be college bound. Everything
I think among elites in SanDiego focuses on you can be just
like me. I'll help you go tocollege. You can be like me, and
you can like my theater, and youcan like my music, and you can
like and I think within thecuratorial community in the
(30:31):
arts, we have a lot ofcuratorial people who want to
broaden, to take risks. Right?Like the opera doing the, new
opera on Frito and Diego. Andyou look at some of the
wonderful things Barry Adelsteinis doing. The old globe. Yeah.
The old globe. And I mean andand you look at Rafael Payere
(30:55):
Yeah. And Martha. So these aresort of conventional arts
organizations, which curatorilyare committed to the kind of
diversity, inclusiveness, andmore new voices and new artists.
So I guess what I'm saying isthere's a gap between how people
who could invest in thecommunity, are seeing what needs
(31:21):
to be done to make it a goodcommunity.
And some of the ideas, liberalsocial scientists like me, you
you have about the importance ofbuilding capacity Right. In
lower income communities. Andthe one place you you, where
there is a lot of investment isin pipeline programs. But those
(31:42):
pipeline programs focusexclusively on universities. And
we have seen with San Diego CityCollege and with things like
workshops for warriors and otherprograms in this town.
I'm not touting them, but theyactually produce people who are
essential to our economy andsociety. And we need to invest
(32:06):
in a broader range, in myopinion.
Grant Oliphant (32:08):
You know, in some ways well, actually many
ways, what you're describing isthe story of America at the
moment and a struggle that'shappening all over the country
around bridging these divides.Is there any reason San Diego
(32:30):
especially struggles with it?
Mary Walshok (32:33):
I think it's so new. Mhmm. So as I said to you,
in the 40, 50 years that I'vebeen here, it's transformed. And
it's the whole west has, youknow, this the the wealth
creation and the concentrationof philanthropic money is no
longer on the East Coast.
Grant Oliphant (32:53):
Right.
Mary Walshok (32:53):
It's really moved to the west Right. To Texas, to
California, to Washington. Andso we're young, and we're new at
this.
Grant Oliphant (33:03):
Yeah. Well and and what I wanna underscore in
you talking about these thingsis I think it comes across how
much you love this place.
Mary Walshok (33:11):
Mhmm.
Grant Oliphant (33:11):
And I think sometimes we're afraid to be
critical of places that we lovebecause we're afraid people will
think that we don't love. Mhmm.And in fact, it's evident in
everything you say that you careabout San Diego, you're proud of
San Diego, and you think thereare ways in which San Diego
could do better, and you hopeSan Diego will do better. You
(33:32):
mentioned earlier in ourdiscussion the geniuses from the
past who who created some of thegreat parts of the city. And,
you know, I often look at BalboaPark as an extraordinary asset.
And the cultural institutionsthat were created there as
(33:52):
unique in the country Mhmm. Interms of a physical place that
houses so much Mhmm. In abeautiful setting Mhmm. That is
impossible to rival.
And, you know, there was a lotof wisdom in the community back
then. Yes. When you fast forwardto today, and this, of course,
(34:13):
is what the Prebys Foundation isworking on every single day,
what are the things that we getthe community excited about
doing today?
Mary Walshok (34:24):
Well, if you look at where philanthropy, the bulk
of philanthropy is going,clearly health care and
connecting that to health careequity, right, is a target of
opportunity because there's alot of interest. But can we
(34:44):
speak the truth? Yes. Many ofthe research centers are for the
diseases of the old and dying,and there's not enough being
invested in the young and thegrowing. And you can look at the
data and see it.
And, you know, we have Rady'sChildren's Hospital, and they
(35:05):
now have a research center thatis so exciting. Mhmm. We have a
school, 2 schools of publichealth, 1 at San Diego State, 1
at UCSD. Those are exciting frommy point of view. Those are
investable opportunities.
Urban studies and planning,design labs. Those are
investable, in my opinion. Sothis whole health care sphere
(35:30):
and the talent development, lookat how City College and USD and
SDSU are all trying to build theworkforce of the future in
health care, many of whom burnedout and were lost during COVID.
So that's a sector, but it's notnecessarily the cardiovascular
(35:51):
centers and the you see what Imean? I it's okay.
I think the second thing is thewillingness to invest in
significant arts and culturalorganizations that aren't just
next door to where you live.Okay?
Grant Oliphant (36:09):
Right. Right.
Mary Walshok (36:10):
So the Rady Shell for me is iconic in that way. It
shows that you can get peopletogether
Grant Oliphant (36:21):
Right.
Mary Walshok (36:22):
To invest in a very innovative public private
partnership that culturallyserves an extraordinary array of
people, rock concerts, countryconcerts, classical music, and
it's a hub. I mean, I I feelRady and Park and Market are 2
superb examples.
(36:43):
Well, they they demonstrate thatwe can still do big things
We can do big projects, yes.
3rd space that binds many, manyof us is the environment. And
and I know the Prebys Foundationis very interested in in sort of
some of the catastrophes and theproblems. But, also, you what
(37:06):
you pointed out, parks matter.You know, street lined streets
matter. Sidewalks, lights atnight, pocket parks, places
where children can play andelderly people can get exercise.
Grant Oliphant (37:27):
Right.
Mary Walshok (37:27):
You know, I mean, all of those things are an
investment in the place,maximizing the fact that we can
live outdoors year round, forexample. So there isn't hasn't
yet been the sort of civic willor leadership to emerge on those
sorts of fronts. But for me,those are targets of opportunity
(37:48):
that benefit everyone, whetheryou live on the Torrey Pines
Mesa or Otay Mesa.
Grant Oliphant (37:54):
Yeah. And I I I I wanna underscore them because
I think these are reallypowerful. So the, you know, the
health care of the future Mhmm.Is is 1. The arts that pulls
people together from all overthe community and creates
inspiration for people no matterwhat their background is.
(38:15):
And I agree with you about TheShell, I think it is a wonderful
gathering place for communitythat functions in the same way
that Balboa Park does.
Mary Walshok (38:26):
Yeah. The park. Yes.
Grant Oliphant (38:27):
And then the environment, I would I would
endorse that as well. Andalthough the foundation doesn't
approach environmental issuesRight. Per se, we see the
connection between that andhealth
Mary Walshok (38:41):
Oh, for sure.
Grant Oliphant (38:42):
Very clear terms. Yes. And so for example,
our recent involvement in theTijuana River Right. Valley,
which connected back to one ofthe schools of public health
that you mentioned in researchthey did.
It illustrates that health isvery dependent on the
environment, and you're a 100%right to point to that. I think
what's also interesting aboutthese three examples is that
(39:04):
they are assets San Diego has.
Mary Walshok (39:06):
Yes.
Grant Oliphant (39:06):
So we have a unique environment. Yes. We have
a stunning array of medicalresearch and healthcare
facilities, and we've gotfantastic arts and culture Mhmm.
Resources.
Mary Walshok (39:18):
And we have the social diversity to weave into a
tapestry of a genuinelyintegrated community on all
these fronts.
Grant Oliphant (39:28):
And they're and they're they're I I I I I don't
mean to be repetitive, but it'sworth repeating. They are all
connected in a way you know,quality of life connects to you
you listed things like parks andand and cultural experiences,
and they're all connected to ahealthier view of community,
(39:50):
which as you know is the coreconcept of the work we're doing
at the Prebys Foundation is topromote promote community
well-being. Yes.
Mary Walshok (40:00):
And they all contribute to a sense of
belonging.
Grant Oliphant (40:03):
Right.
Mary Walshok (40:03):
That I belong here.
Grant Oliphant (40:05):
Right.
Mary Walshok (40:06):
And when you create institutions that are
kind of isolated in only highincome neighborhoods, not easy
to get to and park, and youdon't exactly know how to dress
and other things. It it's it itdoesn't have the same effect as
a place like the Shell
Grant Oliphant (40:26):
Right.
Mary Walshok (40:27):
Where you can just kinda walk in. And and I think
from a a social point of view,we have to have many places that
welcome many different people.
Grant Oliphant: And I think this is what you (40:40):
undefined
were pointing to earlier just toclose the loop on this around a
city that mirrors what you'retrying to do at Park and Market.
Mary Walshok (40:48):
Yes
Grant Oliphant (40:48):
Right?
Mary Walshok (40:48):
Well, and I think you brought up the example of
Balboa Park.
Grant Oliphant (40:52):
Mhmm.
Mary Walshok (40:52):
And I've written a couple of op eds about the park
Yes. Is an example of what how acity can work, and and the Rady
Shell is becoming that. So wehave examples
Grant Oliphant (41:03):
Right.
Mary Walshok (41:03):
Of places where people make an effort to go to
because they feel they're gonnahave a good experience there,
and they're welcome there.
Grant Oliphant (41:12):
So you probably don't define yourself as a
futurist, but I think you're afuturist.
Mary Walshok (41:18):
I'm an optimist Yeah. For sure.
Grant Oliphant (41:20):
I wanna talk about that too. But the you
know, when you when you soyou've studied the past, and
you've looked at some of thestrengths of the moment and the
weaknesses of the moment. Fastforward from today, 20 or 25
years, what do you think are thestrengths of San Diego that we
should be leaning into and thatwill distinguish this community
(41:42):
and help help us in leadingAmerica to a better place Yeah.
As the country comes here to seethe future. What are we gonna be
showing them?
Mary Walshok (41:51):
So let me start in terms of the economy because
everybody frets. Oh, we don'thave Fortune 500 companies. We
don't have headquartercompanies. All of our companies
get acquired and go elsewhere.But I don't think the economy is
dependent on companies.
It's dependent on talent Mhmm.And talented people. So
(42:15):
everything we can do to educate,retain, and retrain our local
talent, whether it's inSoutheast San Diego or on the
Torrey Pines Mesa. We'reinvesting in the innovation, the
entrepreneurs, the supplyvendors, supply service vendors,
(42:39):
and there are a lot of them tothe research community and to
hospitals and to those sorts ofthings. So for me, building
talent that is capable ofadapting to unplanned for
opportunities and challenges isreally important and across a
spectrum.
From a social point of view, Ithink I've already said to you,
(43:02):
my sense is we gotta get peoplestarting to use trolleys and
buses more.
Grant Oliphant (43:08):
Yes. Amen.
Mary Walshok (43:09):
And traveling to more parts of the region.
Grant Oliphant (43:12):
Right.
Mary Walshok (43:12):
But I spend a lot of time at Bread and Salt, which
is in Barrio Logan, onweeknights and weekends. And why
do I go there? Because they gotsuch cool music.
Grant Oliphant (43:23):
Yeah.
Mary Walshok (43:24):
And they've got wonderful
so we we need to invest so theplaces are likable and
attractive.
Grant Oliphant (43:39):
And I know you worry as much as anybody about
high housing prices and the costof living in this very expensive
county and the number of peoplewho have been leaving as a
result. Is there a is is there aclear fix for that in this?
Mary Walshok (43:56):
I'm not as sophisticated as perhaps I
should be, but there seems to beexamples in other cities of
smaller housing, units. I mean,my generation grew up oh my god.
(44:17):
I need a house, a garden oceanof water. And 2 a garage for 2
cars.
I've spent enough time in Asianow Yeah. And in, Southern
Europe where people grow up inthe apartments their
grandparents and their parentsgrew up in. And they use public
(44:39):
space and restaurants forgatherings. So I don't have to
have a dining room for 30 peoplebecause I can go to my local pub
or my local bistro and have myparty with 30 people. And that's
a lot of what I've learned frommy encounters with Asia and now
having an Asian daughter-in-lawthat the relationship between
(45:03):
public space and private spaceis very different so that your
private space is smaller.
But and I can and public spaceis parks, but it's also
restaurants and
Grant Oliphant (45:16):
And roads.
Mary Walshok (45:17):
And clubs and Yeah. And event places. So how
you do if I'm making sense Yeah.How you organize your day to day
life? And I think we need tothink about those things.
Grant Oliphant (45:28):
So, Mary, we're, I can't believe it. This has
flown by. We're running out oftime almost, and I but I I wanna
end with, by giving you a minuteto talk about a concept that I
think ties a lot of thesethreads
technology and life sciencesinnovation is the driver of the
(45:51):
economy of the future. So weunderstand that. But in addition
to that, we're we're seeing alot of innovation among
nonprofits and social benefitcorporations, and we're seeing a
real commitment to mission andto community.
That's a theme for young peoplein today's economy, and they
(46:11):
wanna see that. Happens to be astrength that San Diego could
leverage. What is the future forsocial innovation in San Diego?
Mary Walshok (46:19):
Well, I think it really needs to be nurtured
locally but informed globally.I'm sorry. I'm gonna go back
back to that theme
Grant Oliphant (46:27):
no. Let's bring it back
Mary Walshok (46:28):
to that. To that theme because I think just as in
technology and science, you needto know what's going on at
Harvard. You need to know what'sgoing on at Shanghai University
and at Uppsala to do your work.We who want to be social
innovators need to ask, are theydoing something in Memphis or
(46:51):
Seattle or Newark that could berelevant to us? And I think
we're mired in our own sort oflocal conversations and
experimentation.
So people wanna be experimental.But I think they're the
imagination is not as wide andas enriched. And I don't think
(47:13):
the confidence in socialinnovation is as high
Grant Oliphant (47:17):
As it could be
Mary Walshok (47:17):
be. It as it could be because when you see others
who've done it well Yeah. Andit's not just in your own
community. So we're alwayssaying we gotta consult with
local groups. I absolutely agreewith that.
But we also have to look for theexciting ideas that are in other
places and integrate them intoour local conversations.
Grant Oliphant (47:39):
Well, I I just wanna say, Mary Walshok, thank
you for doing this interview.But more importantly, thank you
for the role that you play asthe poet of the regional
economy, to quote, Mark. Butthe, you know, I think the the
willingness to say to acommunity that that has amazing
(48:01):
great aspects that it can alsostill continue to improve Yeah.
Is an important role that youplay. And I I just wanna say
thank you on behalf of all of us
Mary Walshok (48:11):
Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (48:11):
By the way, Sweden's loss are our gain.
Mary Walshok (48:14):
I know. Thank you.
Grant Oliphant (48:16):
Yes. Thank you.
Crystal Page (48:21):
Wow. That was an amazing interview, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (48:24):
Yeah. That was that was extraordinary. You
know, I I I think the, commentthat I shared with her from the
EDC leader, Mark Cafferty, aboutMary being the poet of the
economy really resonates afterthat conversation. She is able
to talk about the economicimportance, value,
(48:49):
opportunities, challenges, areasfor improvement for this region
in a way that I've rarely seenpeople talk about those
subjects.
Crystal Page (48:59):
And let me ask you, Grant, because what I love
about Mary is not just herenergy. She's a strong
storyteller.
Grant Oliphant (49:05):
Yeah.
Crystal Page (49:05):
But what do you take away in terms of the
opportunities ahead based onwhat Mary said?
Grant Oliphant (49:10):
No. I think I'd what I loved especially in this
interview was the way she keptputting together the the diverse
parts of our region and ourpeople and our disciplines that
exist here. So she kept makingthe connection, for example,
between the arts and culture andcreativity with the innovation
(49:34):
happening at the universitiesand on Torrey Pines, Mesa, and
arguably in some other placesaround the region as well. But,
you know, that that's sort ofthe metaphor. And and the and
the opportunity to designintentionally a community that
leverages the diversity of itspeople, the diversity of its art
(49:58):
forms, the diversity of itsthinking, the creativity that
comes out of its sources ofinnovation, that the way she
kept putting those piecestogether was for me really
exciting.
Crystal Page (50:11):
And knowing, you know, you're the CEO of the
Prebys Foundation, and she talksabout, like, cross cutting.
Right? Having people in same thesame buildings and things, I
think. Did she inspire you todayto step out on a certain issue
or to go forward? Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (50:25):
Well, I've been you know? Look. I've been
talking to Mary for 2 years, andI'm, I was inspired by her the
very first time I talked to her.And I I mentioned this during
the interview, but I, I wasstruck in our very first
conversation by how she wasthinking in global terms about
the importance of this communityand how she she thought about
(50:50):
the fact that the world turns tothis engine of creativity,
California, to figure out wherethe world is going. And and why
is that?
It's not just becauseCalifornia's great and it's got
it is because it puts togetherthose pieces that she was
talking about. Different peoplewith different ideas bump up
(51:13):
against each other, and fromthat comes these amazing new
inventions and innovations. Andand so I was struck by how she
kept bringing that home to whatshe hoped San Diego would be.
And I heard the same thing inthis conversation today, just a
little more fleshed out becausewe had more time to talk about
(51:35):
it than we did in our firstmeeting. And I am inspired by
what I see as the immense youknow, not every not every
community in America gets tostart with the diverse
population that we have, and shementioned that.
Not every community in Americagets to start with the amazing
(51:56):
assets of innovation in theuniversities and research
centers. Not every community inAmerica gets to start with the
amazing range of arts andculture, artists and performance
venues, and assets that existhere. We have all of those
things. And then she talkedabout the environment and the
(52:19):
role of nature. And, again, notevery community in America gets
to live outdoors most of theyear.
So there is something magicalabout this place. I used that
term. She didn't. But it'sbecause for me, I see the
convergence of those elementsthat she was talking about as
(52:39):
the really inspiring future ofSan Diego that we should all
want to lean into and be excitedabout. But let me reverse the
question and ask about you.
What inspired you?
Crystal Page (52:51):
You know, I think it's something that you and I
always talk about. I think Marypushes us a little bit on this
whole concept of valuing thelocal, but at the same time, not
undervaluing the global. Right?I think that that's a dance or
it's a convergence, as you justsaid. How do we value both of
those things and welcome them toallow all those new ideas to
(53:14):
come forward.
So I think she's left me in deepthought. I will probably be in
deep thought for a few weeksbecause of it. Yeah. But I think
that was the part I reallywanted
all these issues, all theseexciting ideas that we have at
(53:34):
this moment in time. Yeah.
Grant Oliphant (53:36):
Well, I I I saw that part of our conversation as
really being a challenge for us,for the Prebys Foundation, for
the community at large. It is soeasy to fall into the trap of
thinking you've got your acttogether, and that you're
perfect when you do have greatelements to your act, and people
(53:58):
seem to be responsive to it.Right? So what she was saying in
part was, yeah, we've got theseamazing, incredible components
to our community, and they'renot enough. To that, you also
have to add the expertise andthe wisdom that comes from the
outside.
(54:20):
And that's not enough. You haveto come back to the wisdom that
exists here in the community andthe and the insights that you
get from being in communityhere. So I think at some point
in our conversation, we used theterm that's the dance, and and I
I think that's the dance. Youknow? What what we ended up
(54:40):
talking about a lot was how itis important for a community
like San Diego's, which is awhether whether it thinks about
itself this way or not, is aglobal city, That we are
constantly toggling back andforth between what the world can
teach us and what we can teachthe world, and maybe more
(55:04):
importantly, what we can teachourselves.
That all of that is reallyimportant. And I I found that to
be really exciting, but to yourpoint, kind of thought provoking
in terms of understanding how toactualize that every day. You
know, how do you how do you makethat real every single day? And
I think the answer is, you focuson the tasks in front of you,
(55:29):
but you think very broadly aboutthe way in which they play out
and for whom. You know?
That was another takeaway forme, and I I know you you keyed
in on this as well. But the wayin which she talked about the
importance of inclusion anddiversity in this community, she
(55:50):
talked about it in local terms,but she also talked about it as
being part of a global economyand understanding that who we
are is actually part of ourstrength. I love that.
Crystal Page (56:02):
No. I agree with you. When she talked about her
daughter-in-law who comes from,I forget which country she said,
but basically, there's wisdom tobe learned from all these
different folks we interactwith. Right? So, like, the fact
that her daughter-in-law camefrom sharing an apartment with
her possibly parents andgrandparents and that whole idea
of, like, we don't all have tohave 4 bedrooms, a giant
(56:25):
backyard and things.
In fact, not everybody wantsthat. You know? And so it's how
do we learn from what's workingin other cities, what has worked
here, what can work here in thefuture. I really love that you
labeled her a futurist because II think you're right. She
definitely sees multiple optionsfor us if we make good and solid
decisions for our region.
Grant Oliphant (56:44):
You know, the the the challenge in a
conversation with someone likeMary is, there's so much on the
table that it can be daunting tothink about it all. But I think
what we should be veryencouraged about is that we have
lots of people, maybe not likeMary because she is a singular
(57:07):
person, but we have lots ofpeople working in connected
spaces, really leading thiscommunity forward in exciting
directions. And what I walkedaway from this conversation
feeling is incredibly positiveabout the future. Is that how
you felt?
Crystal Page (57:23):
A 100%.
Grant Oliphant (57:24):
Yeah.
Crystal Page (57:25):
I mean, I just always loved being around Mary.
She just has this hope, thisbubbling hope and knowledge and
connection, but, you know, whatI took away is we can do hard
things, and San Diego willcontinue to do hard things. You
know?
Grant Oliphant (57:38):
Yeah. Well, this was terrific, and I I'm really
grateful to get to do this withyou. You actually asked a fan
fantastic question of her whenwe were off air about who her
favorite graduates are, and Ithought it was wonderful that
she answered the artists and thecreators, and and I hope the
(58:00):
artists and the creators who arelistening will see themselves
very much in the picture thatwe're talking about here. The
creativity that happens in SanDiego is broadly shared across a
whole range of disciplines, andit's a magical thing.
Crystal Page (58:16):
Excellent work, Grant.
Grant Oliphant (58:18):
Excellent work, Crystal. Thank you. This is a
production of the PrebysFoundation, hosted by Grant
Oliphant, and co hosted byCrystal Page. The program is co
produced by Crystal Page andAdam
(58:43):
and our new theme song is bymister Lyrical Groove, a local
San Diego artist. Downloadepisodes at your favorite
podcatcher or visit us at stopand talk podcast dot org.
If you like this show, and wereally hope you do, the best way
to support it is to share,subscribe, and review our
(59:06):
podcast. Thank you for yoursupport, your ideas, and most of
all, for listening. This programhas been recorded at The Voice
of San Diego Podcast Studio.
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