March 4, 2025 • 18 mins
Understand and identify your polyvagal primary and mixed states. This episode covers connection, escape, aggression, collapse, play, motivation, stillness, intimacy, freeze, and appeasement and fawn states. Start identifying your states today.
00:00 Intro: Apply your Polyvagal Knowledge
02:27 Do you feel like connecting?
04:30 Do you feel like escaping or aggressing?
05:56 Do you feel like collapsing?
07:35 Do you feel ready to have with someone else?
08:41 Do you feel motivated?
10:24 Do you feel reflective and mindful?
11:51 Do you want to connect with someone else?
13:51 Do you feel out of control or overwhelmed?
15:28 Do you placate or appease others?
17:05 stuck not broken outro
Resources:
🔸 Free resources and course in the Members Center - https://www.justinlmft.com/members
🔸 Join the Unstucking Academy - https://www.stucknotbroken.com/unstuckingacademy
🔸 Polyvagal Intro webpage - https://www.justinlmft.com/polyvagalintro
🔸 Stuck Not Broken book series - https://www.justinlmft.com/books
🔸 Polyvagal 101 audio series - https://player.captivate.fm/collection/cce134e7-1550-4d33-8e56-738d344c63b0
Crisis resources:
- National Suicide Prevention Hotline - 1 (800) 273-8255
- National Domestic Violence Hotline -1 (800) 799-7233
- LGBT Trevor Project Lifeline - 1 (866) 488-7386
- National Sexual Assault Hotline - 1 (800) 656-4673
- Crisis Text Line - Text “HOME” to 741741
- Call 911 for emergency
This and other content produced by Justin Sunseri (“JustinLMFT”) (i.e; podcast, YouTube, Instagram, etc.) is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or be a replacement for therapy. Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship. Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are experiencing mental health symptoms. Nothing should be construed to be specific life advice; it is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
Justin Sunseri is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist registered in the State of California (#99147).
Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast! When you do, you will immediately get the next episode as soon as it's available. What's better than having the next episode of SNB ready and waiting for you? (Nothing, that's what.)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
By now, you've probably learnedabout the Polyvagal Theory, how
(00:05):
your nervous system shifts betweensafety, flight, fight and shutdown.
And now you're askingyourself, OK, now what?
You're not alone.
Understanding why and how your bodyreacts the way that it does is really
useful and it can be validating andnormalizing as a new piece of knowledge.
(00:27):
But, the real transformationhappens when you apply that
knowledge to your daily life.
In this episode and the next fourepisodes, I'll give you small,
actionable things that you can doto daily apply the Polyvagal Theory.
By the end of this episode,you'll better understand the
(00:50):
polyvagal primary and mixed states.
And you'll be able to identify whichstate you spend the most time in.
Knowing your state will help youbecause you might know what to do
next based on your state's needs.
And if you have that, you have apotential avenue for self regulation.
(01:10):
Hi, my name is Justin Sonseri.
I'm a therapist and coach who helpsyou live more calmly, confidently and
connected without psychobabble or woo woo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
You've learned about the Polyvagalautonomic states, great, but identifying
(01:31):
them and how they show up in your reallife, that, that might be difficult.
Especially if you have a hard timeidentifying how you feel, if you have
a hard time recognizing your emotions.
On top of that, can you identify whichstate you spend the most time in?
Can you spot when your safety state isactive and how much of it is active?
(01:52):
It's also common to get confused bythese states and how they present.
Like, the difference betweenfreeze and shutdown in particular.
So, I'm going to lead you through allof the official Polyvagal Primary and
Mixed States, also, I'll add in anotherone which will make complete sense, but
(02:14):
it's not an official polyvagal mixedstate, though perhaps someday it will be.
So what I'm going to do is ask youa question, and then I'm going to
follow it up with a brief explanationto help you answer the question.
Question 1 (02:27):
Do you feel like connecting?
You might be ready to connectwith your environment, with
yourself, or with others.
You would connect to the environmentby mindfully using your senses.
You would connect with yourself throughmindfully experiencing your inner
sensations, and you would connectwith others through co-regulation.
Examples of connecting with theenvironment would be things like
(02:51):
smelling a candle, tasting a peach,looking out your window at the horizon,
or maybe there's some rain falling inyour pool that you can sit and watch.
No matter what it is, youconnect with the environment
by using your senses mindfully.
Connecting with yourself could be, orcould look like, noticing what you feel
when you connect with your environment.
(03:12):
When you smell a candle, uh,what does that trigger within?
How does your body respond when youtaste the peach or look out your window
at the horizon or at the rainfall?
Do you feel lighter?
Is breathing easier?
Are you more likely to smile?
Do you want to mobilize or stayput and expand your mindfulness?
(03:33):
Connecting with yourself is connectingwith the inner sensations of what it
is to be you in the present moment.
You can also connect with yourselfby looking inwards at your emotions
and mindfully experiencing them.
But, this includes eventhe difficult ones.
The last way we couldconnect is through others.
Now, connecting with others can looklike hugging, smiling, making eye
(03:55):
contact, or reaching out to somebodythat you haven't spoken to in a while.
If you said yes to connecting with theenvironment, connecting with yourself,
or connecting with others, you likelyhave lots of safety state activation.
Congrats.
That means your body has enough activityin its ventral vagal pathways to
open up these avenues for connection.
(04:19):
In the safety state, You're not onlyready to connect or receive connection,
but you might also be ready to playwith somebody else, um, relax with
a book or even work on a project.
Question 2 (04:30):
Do you feel like escaping or aggressing?
So maybe you don't have that connectionimpulse that I described earlier.
Maybe you feel like, or more like,escaping or being aggressive.
You might need space.
Now, leaving a situation directlyprovides you with space, right?
But being aggressive eventually createsspace as the target of your aggression.
(04:54):
They're likely going to back off.
It may not be super obvious, butthe lingering impulses to escape
or to aggress can show up inother ways, like our emotions and
our cognitions or our thoughts.
Some examples of how escapecan show up are nervousness.
Anxiety, um, thinking of the past,worrying about the future, like an
(05:18):
interaction that you had with a coworkerthat day or one that's coming up tomorrow.
And sorry if I just reminded youabout something that's coming up.
Examples of aggression moving on areanger, irritability, frustration at
not attaining a goal, snapping at yourloved ones, apologize if you need to by
the way, working out in the gym with norelief, not being able to sleep because
(05:39):
you're too activated, If any of thisdescribes you, you would likely have
enough mobilization with sympatheticflight or fight activation in it.
So you, you have some levelof mobility, some level of
sympathetic flight fight activation.
Question 3 (05:56):
Do you feel like collapsing?
Maybe you don't feel likeconnecting and maybe you don't
have the energy to mobilize.
Instead, you may feel like collapsing.
Just falling face first ontoyour bed and staying there,
doing nothing but breathing.
(06:17):
You may feel like you need to be aloneand turn down the stimulation around you.
The lights are too much, sounds are tooloud, people are overwhelming, and you
can't handle another responsibility.
This is a state of disconnection.
So if this describes you, youlikely have some level of shutdown.
(06:39):
At the extreme, this couldeven look like dissociation.
This means that your dorsal vagalpathways, uh, are overly active, probably
because you have some current or past lifecontex- I mean, I don't mean past life.
I mean, younger life when you wereyounger context that you could
(07:00):
not be safe and could not runaway from and could not fight off.
Those are the primary states,safety, flight, fight- both of
those are sympathetic and shutdown.
You likely have one of theseprimary states dominant in
your system day in and day out.
But these polyvagal theory states, theseprimary states can mix or combine to
(07:26):
create mixed states like primary paintcolors mixed to create other colors
like red and blue mix to create purple.
Question 4 (07:35):
Do you feel ready to have fun with someone else?
So what happens when your safetystate mixes with your flight fight?
sympathetic activation.
What happens when you'remobile, but also connected?
If you're feeling spontaneous, fun,or imaginative, and you want to
(07:55):
share that experience with somebodyelse, you're likely in a state
of play, or mixed state of play.
Play is mobile, but safe.
It's flight and fight mixingwith safety, resulting in
connection with somebody else.
Um, but also competitiveness,spontaneity, imagination.
(08:17):
During play, you're mobile, you'reactive with flight and fight, but
the safety aspect allows you to staywithin the rules of the game, or
just, you know, general social norms.
Play feels like fun and excitement, butit's a shared experience with somebody
else or multiple multiple people.
The connection with a safe otheris a really big part of play.
(08:40):
It's kind of necessary.
Question 5 (08:41):
Do you feel motivated?
If you're alone, safety can still mix withflight and fight, resulting in motivation,
creativity, exercise, and productivity.
All of these require energy, right?
Motivation means you're energizedto complete a task of some kind.
(09:02):
When you're motivated, you canbe creative and productive.
Motivation feels confident.
It feels excited.
Motivation means you take the mobilizationof flight and fight, and you point it
in a specific direction, like a paintingthat you're working on or a project that
you want to get done for your business.
(09:23):
Motivation is not an officialpolyvagal mixed state.
But to me, it seems pretty darn obvious.
When you remove the variable of coregulation from play, you can still be
in safety and you can still be mobilized.
Motivation has some elements of play,like the spontaneity and imagination of
art, or the challenge of improving on ascore, like, like how many bicep curls you
(09:48):
can do this week compared to last week.
But motivation lacks the coregulation from another in play.
All we're doing is removing that variable.
Play and motivation are bothsafety plus flight fight.
But what happens when safety mixeswith shutdown with a defensive state?
(10:08):
When safety and shutdown mix we gettwo results one that depends on a safe
other and one that just needs you tobe alone just like play and motivation.
When we remove the variable of a safeother, we still have safety and shutdown
it just results in something differently.
Question 6 (10:24):
Do you feel reflective and mindful?
Are you curious about your inner world?
Do you feel connectedwith your environment?
Are you aware of your senses andhow your body responds to them?
If so, you likely have access toyour mixed state of stillness.
Stillness is the ability toimmobilize and be okay with it.
(10:49):
It comes from the connectionof ventral vagal safety and the
immobility of dorsal vagal shutdown.
Right now you likely have a mixed stateof stillness or some level of it as
you lay down or sit down and listento me talk in this podcast episode.
You're in stillness when you cansit down and reflect on life.
(11:13):
Uh, when you meditate, when yougo to sleep, or if you, even
if you stand at your work desk.
Stillness can be a deep meditativeexperience, feeling tiny, but at one with
the universe and in the present moment.
But it can also be just sittingdown to use the restroom.
Both of these require stillness.
And by the way, if you're mobilewhile using the restroom, I would
(11:36):
argue that you're doing it wrong.
Uh, and your life might be a loteasier if you immobilize in stillness.
Just a life tip.
Stillness is safety andshutdown when you're alone.
But what happens when you introducea safe other into the mix?
Question 7 (11:51):
Do you want to connect with someone else?
Do you feel like you could connectwith somebody else right now?
Like, uh, could you hold them, or lookin their eyes, listen to their feelings,
or do you feel like you're ready toreceive that and share that with another?
(12:12):
If so, you may have accessto your intimacy mixed state.
Intimacy is safety and shutdownwith a co regulative other.
Intimacy doesn't necessarily referto physical intimacy, but it can,
and it can include that as well.
Um, like holding hands whenwatching a movie or massaging your
(12:33):
partner at the end of the day.
Intimacy can also refer to emotionalconnection with another, sharing personal
stories and feelings, and connectingon a deeper level with a safe other.
Intimacy isn't the right word forit, but that safe connection with
another when immobile is alsonecessary for other relationships.
(12:54):
Even like a therapeutic one, ora parent holding their child.
I don't like the word intimacyfor those, but you get the idea.
The co regulation aspect of intimacyis huge, just like it is in play.
If the person you're with is notprojecting safety cues, it's hard to exist
in the intimacy mixed state with them.
(13:17):
Uh, maybe impossible.
Likewise, if you're not neuroceptingsafety cues, even though they are
the other person's projecting them,it's hard to settle into intimacy.
So, a safe other is important, butso is your ability to detect safety
through neuroception and then toshift into enough safety for intimacy.
(13:39):
Play, motivation, stillness, and intimacyare all mixed states involving safety.
But what if safety is not a partof the mixed state equation?
Question 8 (13:51):
Do you feel out of control or overwhelmed?
Do you feel panicky or rageful?
Are your emotions extraordinarily intenseand you feel like you're losing it?
You might be in freeze.
If safety is inactive, you'releft with sympathetic flight
(14:12):
fight and shutdown immobility.
Is it possible for the body tobe both immobile and mobile.
Yeah, that's what freeze is.
It's both defensive statesactive at the same time.
Freeze is like having yourfoot on the accelerator and
the brake at the same time.
It's both mobile and immobile.
(14:34):
The engine's revving and ready to movethe car forward, but the brake is on too.
Freeze is shutdown plus sympathetic.
But sympathetic can be flight orfight, so freeze can be flavored
more like flight or more like fight.
You might notice adifference in your system.
When flavored more like fight, freezeshows up as a chronic underlying
(14:57):
rage that explodes when triggered.
Or when it's flavored by flight, itcan show up as chronic underlying
panic that can also triggerinto a full on frozen panic.
Freeze shows up not justas anger, but as rage.
Not just as anxiety, but as panic.
Not just as stress, but as overwhelm.
(15:19):
Freeze can also show up in milderterms, like when your child jumps out
of their room and yells, scaring you asyou innocently walk down the hallway.
Question 9 (15:28):
Do you placate or appease others?
There are two more polyvagalmixed states, though I personally
have some questions around these.
I will link you to my discussion onthese mixed states in the description.
The two final mixed statesare appeasement and fawn.
Both of these are seen whensomeone is in an unending, life
(15:50):
threatening scenario, like a hostagesituation or an abusive household.
Appeasing is creating a connectionwith a life threatening other.
It's convincing the otherthat you're on the same side.
The connection acts like co regulationor like a pseudo co regulation and
it might get the other person, thecaptor, to reduce danger enough for the
(16:14):
captive's needs to be met or maybe evento potentially escape the situation.
It is hypothesized that appeasementis a combination of all the
Polyvagal primary states, safety,flight, fight, and shutdown.
Fawn though, or placating, I likethat word better, is similar, but
instead of offering pseudo connectionand co regulation, the placater, or
(16:38):
the fawner, is positioning themselvesas a non threat and submissive.
They will anticipate the needs ofthe dominant other and largely try to
remain invisible and not cause problems.
To me, they seem like behavioraladaptations to a severe and ongoing
shutdown or freeze mixed state.
(16:59):
If you put others well being beforeyour own, you may have some level
of these mixed states or behaviors.
Thanks so much for joiningme on Stuck Not Broken.
I hope this episode has helped you toidentify your current state and what
state you spend the most time in.
The Polyvagal Theory is mostlysimple to understand, but
applying it is not so obvious.
(17:22):
So I invite you to spend thenext week or so identifying, just
practice identifying your state.
You can do so at any given momentor reflect on your states at the
end of the day or the next morningas you sip on a cup of coffee.
After you do this for a week, checkout tip two in the next episode.
(17:42):
It's not over.
We continually build on our knowledge andour application of the Polyvagal Theory.
In the next episode, I'm going to bediscussing setting up passive safety cues.
I have written two books now on thePolyvagal Theory and what to do with it.
The first book helps you understandthe theory deeply and apply it
(18:03):
to yourself without judgment,without shame, and without blame.
The next one, book two, helpsyou recognize and build safety.
They're called Stuck NotBroken, books one and two.
I know, wild, wild titles.
I have a link in the descriptionto learn more about both of these
books if you are interested.
(18:23):
Thank you again for joining me.
Bye.
By now, you've probably learnedabout the Polyvagal Theory, how
(00:05):
your nervous system shifts betweensafety, flight, fight and shutdown.
And now you're askingyourself, OK, now what?
You're not alone.
Understanding why and how your bodyreacts the way that it does is really
useful and it can be validating andnormalizing as a new piece of knowledge.
(00:27):
But, the real transformationhappens when you apply that
knowledge to your daily life.
In this episode and the next fourepisodes, I'll give you small,
actionable things that you can doto daily apply the Polyvagal Theory.
By the end of this episode,you'll better understand the
(00:50):
polyvagal primary and mixed states.
And you'll be able to identify whichstate you spend the most time in.
Knowing your state will help youbecause you might know what to do
next based on your state's needs.
And if you have that, you have apotential avenue for self regulation.
(01:10):
Hi, my name is Justin Sonseri.
I'm a therapist and coach who helpsyou live more calmly, confidently and
connected without psychobabble or woo woo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
You've learned about the Polyvagalautonomic states, great, but identifying
(01:31):
them and how they show up in your reallife, that, that might be difficult.
Especially if you have a hard timeidentifying how you feel, if you have
a hard time recognizing your emotions.
On top of that, can you identify whichstate you spend the most time in?
Can you spot when your safety state isactive and how much of it is active?
(01:52):
It's also common to get confused bythese states and how they present.
Like, the difference betweenfreeze and shutdown in particular.
So, I'm going to lead you through allof the official Polyvagal Primary and
Mixed States, also, I'll add in anotherone which will make complete sense, but
(02:14):
it's not an official polyvagal mixedstate, though perhaps someday it will be.
So what I'm going to do is ask youa question, and then I'm going to
follow it up with a brief explanationto help you answer the question.
Question 1 (02:27):
Do you feel like connecting?
You might be ready to connectwith your environment, with
yourself, or with others.
You would connect to the environmentby mindfully using your senses.
You would connect with yourself throughmindfully experiencing your inner
sensations, and you would connectwith others through co-regulation.
Examples of connecting with theenvironment would be things like
(02:51):
smelling a candle, tasting a peach,looking out your window at the horizon,
or maybe there's some rain falling inyour pool that you can sit and watch.
No matter what it is, youconnect with the environment
by using your senses mindfully.
Connecting with yourself could be, orcould look like, noticing what you feel
when you connect with your environment.
(03:12):
When you smell a candle, uh,what does that trigger within?
How does your body respond when youtaste the peach or look out your window
at the horizon or at the rainfall?
Do you feel lighter?
Is breathing easier?
Are you more likely to smile?
Do you want to mobilize or stayput and expand your mindfulness?
(03:33):
Connecting with yourself is connectingwith the inner sensations of what it
is to be you in the present moment.
You can also connect with yourselfby looking inwards at your emotions
and mindfully experiencing them.
But, this includes eventhe difficult ones.
The last way we couldconnect is through others.
Now, connecting with others can looklike hugging, smiling, making eye
(03:55):
contact, or reaching out to somebodythat you haven't spoken to in a while.
If you said yes to connecting with theenvironment, connecting with yourself,
or connecting with others, you likelyhave lots of safety state activation.
Congrats.
That means your body has enough activityin its ventral vagal pathways to
open up these avenues for connection.
(04:19):
In the safety state, You're not onlyready to connect or receive connection,
but you might also be ready to playwith somebody else, um, relax with
a book or even work on a project.
Question 2 (04:30):
Do you feel like escaping or aggressing?
So maybe you don't have that connectionimpulse that I described earlier.
Maybe you feel like, or more like,escaping or being aggressive.
You might need space.
Now, leaving a situation directlyprovides you with space, right?
But being aggressive eventually createsspace as the target of your aggression.
(04:54):
They're likely going to back off.
It may not be super obvious, butthe lingering impulses to escape
or to aggress can show up inother ways, like our emotions and
our cognitions or our thoughts.
Some examples of how escapecan show up are nervousness.
Anxiety, um, thinking of the past,worrying about the future, like an
(05:18):
interaction that you had with a coworkerthat day or one that's coming up tomorrow.
And sorry if I just reminded youabout something that's coming up.
Examples of aggression moving on areanger, irritability, frustration at
not attaining a goal, snapping at yourloved ones, apologize if you need to by
the way, working out in the gym with norelief, not being able to sleep because
(05:39):
you're too activated, If any of thisdescribes you, you would likely have
enough mobilization with sympatheticflight or fight activation in it.
So you, you have some levelof mobility, some level of
sympathetic flight fight activation.
Question 3 (05:56):
Do you feel like collapsing?
Maybe you don't feel likeconnecting and maybe you don't
have the energy to mobilize.
Instead, you may feel like collapsing.
Just falling face first ontoyour bed and staying there,
doing nothing but breathing.
(06:17):
You may feel like you need to be aloneand turn down the stimulation around you.
The lights are too much, sounds are tooloud, people are overwhelming, and you
can't handle another responsibility.
This is a state of disconnection.
So if this describes you, youlikely have some level of shutdown.
(06:39):
At the extreme, this couldeven look like dissociation.
This means that your dorsal vagalpathways, uh, are overly active, probably
because you have some current or past lifecontex- I mean, I don't mean past life.
I mean, younger life when you wereyounger context that you could
(07:00):
not be safe and could not runaway from and could not fight off.
Those are the primary states,safety, flight, fight- both of
those are sympathetic and shutdown.
You likely have one of theseprimary states dominant in
your system day in and day out.
But these polyvagal theory states, theseprimary states can mix or combine to
(07:26):
create mixed states like primary paintcolors mixed to create other colors
like red and blue mix to create purple.
Question 4 (07:35):
Do you feel ready to have fun with someone else?
So what happens when your safetystate mixes with your flight fight?
sympathetic activation.
What happens when you'remobile, but also connected?
If you're feeling spontaneous, fun,or imaginative, and you want to
(07:55):
share that experience with somebodyelse, you're likely in a state
of play, or mixed state of play.
Play is mobile, but safe.
It's flight and fight mixingwith safety, resulting in
connection with somebody else.
Um, but also competitiveness,spontaneity, imagination.
(08:17):
During play, you're mobile, you'reactive with flight and fight, but
the safety aspect allows you to staywithin the rules of the game, or
just, you know, general social norms.
Play feels like fun and excitement, butit's a shared experience with somebody
else or multiple multiple people.
The connection with a safe otheris a really big part of play.
(08:40):
It's kind of necessary.
Question 5 (08:41):
Do you feel motivated?
If you're alone, safety can still mix withflight and fight, resulting in motivation,
creativity, exercise, and productivity.
All of these require energy, right?
Motivation means you're energizedto complete a task of some kind.
(09:02):
When you're motivated, you canbe creative and productive.
Motivation feels confident.
It feels excited.
Motivation means you take the mobilizationof flight and fight, and you point it
in a specific direction, like a paintingthat you're working on or a project that
you want to get done for your business.
(09:23):
Motivation is not an officialpolyvagal mixed state.
But to me, it seems pretty darn obvious.
When you remove the variable of coregulation from play, you can still be
in safety and you can still be mobilized.
Motivation has some elements of play,like the spontaneity and imagination of
art, or the challenge of improving on ascore, like, like how many bicep curls you
(09:48):
can do this week compared to last week.
But motivation lacks the coregulation from another in play.
All we're doing is removing that variable.
Play and motivation are bothsafety plus flight fight.
But what happens when safety mixeswith shutdown with a defensive state?
(10:08):
When safety and shutdown mix we gettwo results one that depends on a safe
other and one that just needs you tobe alone just like play and motivation.
When we remove the variable of a safeother, we still have safety and shutdown
it just results in something differently.
Question 6 (10:24):
Do you feel reflective and mindful?
Are you curious about your inner world?
Do you feel connectedwith your environment?
Are you aware of your senses andhow your body responds to them?
If so, you likely have access toyour mixed state of stillness.
Stillness is the ability toimmobilize and be okay with it.
(10:49):
It comes from the connectionof ventral vagal safety and the
immobility of dorsal vagal shutdown.
Right now you likely have a mixed stateof stillness or some level of it as
you lay down or sit down and listento me talk in this podcast episode.
You're in stillness when you cansit down and reflect on life.
(11:13):
Uh, when you meditate, when yougo to sleep, or if you, even
if you stand at your work desk.
Stillness can be a deep meditativeexperience, feeling tiny, but at one with
the universe and in the present moment.
But it can also be just sittingdown to use the restroom.
Both of these require stillness.
And by the way, if you're mobilewhile using the restroom, I would
(11:36):
argue that you're doing it wrong.
Uh, and your life might be a loteasier if you immobilize in stillness.
Just a life tip.
Stillness is safety andshutdown when you're alone.
But what happens when you introducea safe other into the mix?
Question 7 (11:51):
Do you want to connect with someone else?
Do you feel like you could connectwith somebody else right now?
Like, uh, could you hold them, or lookin their eyes, listen to their feelings,
or do you feel like you're ready toreceive that and share that with another?
(12:12):
If so, you may have accessto your intimacy mixed state.
Intimacy is safety and shutdownwith a co regulative other.
Intimacy doesn't necessarily referto physical intimacy, but it can,
and it can include that as well.
Um, like holding hands whenwatching a movie or massaging your
(12:33):
partner at the end of the day.
Intimacy can also refer to emotionalconnection with another, sharing personal
stories and feelings, and connectingon a deeper level with a safe other.
Intimacy isn't the right word forit, but that safe connection with
another when immobile is alsonecessary for other relationships.
(12:54):
Even like a therapeutic one, ora parent holding their child.
I don't like the word intimacyfor those, but you get the idea.
The co regulation aspect of intimacyis huge, just like it is in play.
If the person you're with is notprojecting safety cues, it's hard to exist
in the intimacy mixed state with them.
(13:17):
Uh, maybe impossible.
Likewise, if you're not neuroceptingsafety cues, even though they are
the other person's projecting them,it's hard to settle into intimacy.
So, a safe other is important, butso is your ability to detect safety
through neuroception and then toshift into enough safety for intimacy.
(13:39):
Play, motivation, stillness, and intimacyare all mixed states involving safety.
But what if safety is not a partof the mixed state equation?
Question 8 (13:51):
Do you feel out of control or overwhelmed?
Do you feel panicky or rageful?
Are your emotions extraordinarily intenseand you feel like you're losing it?
You might be in freeze.
If safety is inactive, you'releft with sympathetic flight
(14:12):
fight and shutdown immobility.
Is it possible for the body tobe both immobile and mobile.
Yeah, that's what freeze is.
It's both defensive statesactive at the same time.
Freeze is like having yourfoot on the accelerator and
the brake at the same time.
It's both mobile and immobile.
(14:34):
The engine's revving and ready to movethe car forward, but the brake is on too.
Freeze is shutdown plus sympathetic.
But sympathetic can be flight orfight, so freeze can be flavored
more like flight or more like fight.
You might notice adifference in your system.
When flavored more like fight, freezeshows up as a chronic underlying
(14:57):
rage that explodes when triggered.
Or when it's flavored by flight, itcan show up as chronic underlying
panic that can also triggerinto a full on frozen panic.
Freeze shows up not justas anger, but as rage.
Not just as anxiety, but as panic.
Not just as stress, but as overwhelm.
(15:19):
Freeze can also show up in milderterms, like when your child jumps out
of their room and yells, scaring you asyou innocently walk down the hallway.
Question 9 (15:28):
Do you placate or appease others?
There are two more polyvagalmixed states, though I personally
have some questions around these.
I will link you to my discussion onthese mixed states in the description.
The two final mixed statesare appeasement and fawn.
Both of these are seen whensomeone is in an unending, life
(15:50):
threatening scenario, like a hostagesituation or an abusive household.
Appeasing is creating a connectionwith a life threatening other.
It's convincing the otherthat you're on the same side.
The connection acts like co regulationor like a pseudo co regulation and
it might get the other person, thecaptor, to reduce danger enough for the
(16:14):
captive's needs to be met or maybe evento potentially escape the situation.
It is hypothesized that appeasementis a combination of all the
Polyvagal primary states, safety,flight, fight, and shutdown.
Fawn though, or placating, I likethat word better, is similar, but
instead of offering pseudo connectionand co regulation, the placater, or
(16:38):
the fawner, is positioning themselvesas a non threat and submissive.
They will anticipate the needs ofthe dominant other and largely try to
remain invisible and not cause problems.
To me, they seem like behavioraladaptations to a severe and ongoing
shutdown or freeze mixed state.
(16:59):
If you put others well being beforeyour own, you may have some level
of these mixed states or behaviors.
Thanks so much for joiningme on Stuck Not Broken.
I hope this episode has helped you toidentify your current state and what
state you spend the most time in.
The Polyvagal Theory is mostlysimple to understand, but
applying it is not so obvious.
(17:22):
So I invite you to spend thenext week or so identifying, just
practice identifying your state.
You can do so at any given momentor reflect on your states at the
end of the day or the next morningas you sip on a cup of coffee.
After you do this for a week, checkout tip two in the next episode.
(17:42):
It's not over.
We continually build on our knowledge andour application of the Polyvagal Theory.
In the next episode, I'm going to bediscussing setting up passive safety cues.
I have written two books now on thePolyvagal Theory and what to do with it.
The first book helps you understandthe theory deeply and apply it
(18:03):
to yourself without judgment,without shame, and without blame.
The next one, book two, helpsyou recognize and build safety.
They're called Stuck NotBroken, books one and two.
I know, wild, wild titles.
I have a link in the descriptionto learn more about both of these
books if you are interested.
(18:23):
Thank you again for joining me.
Bye.
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