May 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Eva shares her powerful recovery from a Polyvagal shutdown state. She discusses her experiences, valuable insights, and practical tips that have helped her rebuild her sense of safety and connection. Focusing on the polyvagal theory, this episode highlights the importance of small, actionable steps and community support in the path to healing. Join us to discover how Eva went from feeling numb and disconnected to living a more vibrant and engaged life.
00:00 Introduction to Polyvagal Theory and Defensive States
00:22 Eva's Journey: From Shutdown to Recovery
08:22 Understanding and Naming the Defensive State
09:26 Practical Steps and Tools for Building Safety
12:01 The Role of Community and Additional Supports
16:08 Tracking Progress and Maintaining Consistency
21:17 Self-Reflection and Body Awareness
22:31 Mindful Reactions and Social Connections
23:55 Rediscovering Joy in Everyday Activities
26:22 Professional Breakthroughs and Emotional Resilience
29:52 Daily Practices for Sustained Progress
30:51 Practical Advice for Getting Unstuck
38:23 Embracing Emotions with Compassion
41:33 Final Thoughts and Encouragement
Resources:
🔸 Free resources and course in the Members Center - https://www.justinlmft.com/members
🔸 Join the Unstucking Academy - https://www.stucknotbroken.com/unstuckingacademy
🔸 Polyvagal Intro webpage - https://www.justinlmft.com/polyvagalintro
🔸 Stuck Not Broken book series - https://www.justinlmft.com/books
🔸 Polyvagal 101 audio series - https://player.captivate.fm/collection/cce134e7-1550-4d33-8e56-738d344c63b0
Crisis resources:
- National Suicide Prevention Hotline - 1 (800) 273-8255
- National Domestic Violence Hotline -1 (800) 799-7233
- LGBT Trevor Project Lifeline - 1 (866) 488-7386
- National Sexual Assault Hotline - 1 (800) 656-4673
- Crisis Text Line - Text “HOME” to 741741
- Call 911 for emergency
This and other content produced by Justin Sunseri (“JustinLMFT”) (i.e; podcast, YouTube, Instagram, etc.) is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or be a replacement for therapy. Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship. Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are experiencing mental health symptoms. Nothing should be construed to be specific life advice; it is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
Justin Sunseri is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist registered in the State of California (#99147).
Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast! When you do, you will immediately get the next episode as soon as it's available. What's better than having the next episode of SNB ready and waiting for you? (Nothing, that's what.)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You've learned the polyvagal theory.
You are stuck in a defensive state.
You don't know what to do next,and you are looking for hope.
Is it actually possible to get unstuck?
Can somebody recover maybe fromshutdown in particular, but in
a defensive state in general?
Can you actually feel safe andbuild your body's safety state?
(00:22):
In this episode, we hear from Eva.
She has successfully unstuck herselffrom shutdown and shares with us a bit
of her story- what's been helpful andgives you super duper practical tips to
start your own untucking process today.
Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.
(00:43):
I'm a therapist and coach who helpsyou live more calmly, confidently, and
connected without psychobabble or woo woo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
This podcast is of course not therapy,nor is it intended to replace therapy.
Oh, real quick, and before you ask,no, this is not a paid testimonial
(01:04):
from an Unstucking Academy member.
I've had more and more people asking mefor stories of success, not necessarily
from the community, but just in general.
Are there stories of success for peoplecoming out of a stuck defensive state?
So that's where this came from- inresponse to this audience and its needs,
(01:27):
I asked current and past UnstuckingAcademy students if they would share
their success story, and Eva volunteered.
Once again, Eva, thank you somuch for sharing your success
and for helping the next person.
The first thing Eva shares isabout her stuck defensive state
and what life used to be like.
(01:48):
so I, I guess I lived in that dorsalvagal shutdown state for probably several
years, and essentially I was a, it wasa state of emotional, I guess, numbness,
disconnection, even helplessness.
And I, I wasn't just tired, Iwas really withdrawn from life.
Um, I began avoiding confrontationchallenges and sadly, even joy.
(02:12):
So I didn't want anything.
Everything felt like it was too much.
Uh, looking back, I now realize that I'doperated in, I guess, a survival mode.
I was functioning, but I wasn'tliving for maybe two to three years
prior to, prior to where I am now.
And that disconnection, that's where Ireally found it most, the numbness and the
disconnection and just that helplessness.
(02:33):
Like I said, it was just the inabilityto, um, kind of see a way forward and
even, um, yeah, just withdrawing justthat real heavy, heavy, heavy feeling.
So was your shutdown more acute, limitedtime, or was that something that was,
that had been around for a lifetime?
It was a gradual kindof slipping, I suppose.
(02:55):
I didn't really notice otherpeople noticed before I did.
The disconnection and thewithdrawing from life.
I hadn't realized that I wasdoing it as much as I, I was.
That turning point for me when Irecognized that I was really stuck and
something needed to change was not adramatic moment, but a really quiet, and I
guess a painful moment when I noticed thatI really did not feel anything anymore.
(03:18):
There wasn't any sadness,no joy, and not even anger.
So I think that's probably, you know, forme, where I was really noticing it 'cause
not that I'm an angry person, but things,things just didn't get under my skin.
I just, I just shrugged my shoulderskind of thing and keep going.
And yes, where I really noticed it wasI was sitting alone at a family, like
(03:41):
a social gathering, um, a barbecue, andI was really not wanting to be there.
I was scrolling, really numblythrough my phone because I
didn't wanna engage with anybody.
And it was at that moment I could hearpeople around me having a good time.
And I realized that I hadn't truly laughedor cried or connected with anybody or
anything really in months and months.
(04:02):
And I guess that was a momentwhere it hit me and I realized
that this, this isn't who I am.
Um, I was no longer hiding my emotions.
I'd kind of lost them ormisplaced them all together.
So that's like that slipping away
Yeah.
that.
Like in that moment they weren't there.
But before that there was like a hidingor, and we all do it, like there's
(04:22):
some sort of repression or denial orsomething like that, I'm assuming?
Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
And I made up excuses, um, as to why Iwasn't doing things or, um, why I was
withdrawing the way I was, you know?
And it, that kind of went well fora while with people, I suppose.
You know, I was working hard, I wasdoing this, I was doing that, but really
I wasn't, I just didn't want to engage.
(04:45):
So if someone did not know you andthey saw you in this, this shutdown
period, would they look at you andsay, oh, she's got it together.
She has her stuff together and she hasa functional life, or would they see
someone who's like at home, isolatedin a dark room or a little bit of both?
I guess a little bit of both.
So if you didn't know me, you wouldsee me functioning and I would take
(05:08):
every tiny little bit of energy, whichthere was not- it was very depleted
anyway, but I would use all of that toget to work and do what I had to do.
But even then, cracks started to appearwith colleagues and things like that.
But as soon as I got home, and evenwhen I was going home in the car,
I, I couldn't wait to get home.
So I could go and literally in thatdark room closet sometimes, and.
(05:28):
Kinda makes me feel emotionalto hear about that now, but
that's where I wanted to be.
And it was, it's funny you shouldsay that, because it was a closet,
a dark closet where it was.
was a closet.
Yep.
And there was four walls and it was darkand it was contained and it felt safe.
Um, so that's where I spent a lotof time and it's, yeah, it's a
(05:51):
bit hard to speak about now, butyeah, that's, that was my place.
for sure.
And, um,
Giselle, it,
you, you have complete control here, okay?
Yeah, thank you.
You okay?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just,
and talking.
yeah, no, I know.
And when, when I go back to thinkabout that, yeah, it's, I, and you
know, I guess we'll get to that.
(06:12):
I haven't been in that closet fora while now, so it sounds, it's
metaphoric in some ways, but it wasliteral for me as well, and it wasn't,
I didn't see it as a bad place.
I saw it as a very safe place.
Yeah, it wasn't living, iswhat I'm saying, you know?
I was very aware that people wereout there functioning on a level
that was, I used to be at socialand I was a very vibrant person.
(06:32):
I was very engaged with lifeand, um, people around me.
It was me that was the social,you know, butterfly, so to speak.
And I was very into sports and very intoa probably over socializer, um, with not
much of a, a, a break in that, um, in thatsocial space to, to go from that where
I was the, you know, the orchestratorof social gatherings and getting
(06:56):
togethers and parties and things likethat to living in a closet, so to speak.
It was really, really hard.
Yeah.
huge change.
Hmm.
an enormous change.
I mean, that's thecomplete opposite of, of
Yeah.
A lot of people would saythat this is not my true self.
The-
No, no.
(07:17):
this isn't me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's kinda what you're saying.
And then I questioned who I was, you know,and it's like, well, which is the real me?
You know, which is the bit that's,um, which part of me is real?
And I, you know, I guess there'sstill some questions there.
I'm still finding myself along the way.
I don't know that I wanna return back tothe old person, but I'm, I'm not sure.
(07:38):
Yeah.
It's, it's a, it's a process and ajourney, so I'm definitely on it.
a hundred percent.
Yeah, I agree with you.
I feel like I'm
learning about myself all the
Hmm.
Hmm.
Achieve or unlock or this, it's, it'snot just like achieving something.
It's, it's the emotional of like,oh, I'm, I'm capable of that.
(07:58):
Yes.
stuck now than I wascomparatively in the past.
Yeah,
All right.
Okay.
So you realize that this familyget together, that this is not.
I'm not happy.
I'm not feeling anything.
I'm not even feeling anger.
I'm not feeling sadness.
I'm numb.
Yeah.
was, did you take immediateaction to help or, or what?
(08:19):
What was the first thing you did?
How long did it take?
Yeah.
I think for me that first step was kindof simple, but it was powerful, and that
was naming that state that I was in.
Um.
Learning about the Polyvagal Theory helpedme realize that my body wasn't broken
or lazy- it was actually protecting me.
And for me, that changed everything.
I started with those, um, short somaticexercises, orientating to the room,
(08:43):
those soft eye gazes, longer exhales.
But, um, you know, prior to that,which is how I started, I guess
I found one of your podcasts.
Um, um, so I gone googling as youdo, you know, I was looking for
something that would guide me.
Um, and I found one of the podcasts.
And the podcast I found was anepisode that explained the, the,
(09:04):
the, the states, the defense statesin very, very plain language.
And that's what I needed, I think.
And that gave me that permissionto stop blaming myself and instead
focus on building some safety.
So.
I guess that's where it allstarted and that's where those
wheels started turning for me.
Did you take immediate action
yes.
(09:24):
sit with it for a little bit?
No, I think, I think that immediateaction, going back to what I was starting
with those short exercises, and I rememberlistening to that first podcast and
then probably binge binge listening.
Um, 'cause I wanted, I understoodfor a moment there I was
like, oh my gosh, this is me.
This is how I feel, and it wasplain language and I understood it.
(09:46):
And so I kept listening and I kindof scrolled ahead, so to speak,
you know, went ahead and tried tofind the, the quick fix and went
to the building safety anchors.
And, um, I didn't wanna wait.
I wanted to, you know, I wanted the, Iwanted that fix, so I went to those, yeah,
those little exercises there that we talk,you know, you, we've been talking about.
So those, you know, the soft eyegazes, the breathing, you know,
(10:09):
orientating myself to the roomand things like that, so that.
That's where it started.
Did you
Yeah.
the quick fix?
No, no.
Not a quick fix, but the, I guessthe quick fix in some ways was it's
that, you know, that, like I said,it was a simple but powerful one.
It was naming that state that I wasin, so that was, it was like a moment
(10:31):
which changed everything, you know?
It changed everything.
So, yeah, and that's, that was quick.
In some ways it wasn't quick gettingthere, but it was a quick understanding.
I thought.
I thought that I would go throughlots and lots and lots of different
therapies and different, um, youknow, to try and find the right thing.
But listening to your pod, that firstpodcast was like, "oh," it was- it
(10:55):
just felt too easy in some ways.
So I felt like I must've beenmissing something, but it's been.
Um, yeah.
It's been, it's been a journey, butdefinitely one that I felt like it,
it fit right from the beginning.
I'd listened to your podcast,that first podcast, and then
I listened to a few more.
And then you'd mentioned, um,Deb Dana and Stephen Porges.
(11:18):
And so I went off and looked, watched,you know, some of their stuff as well.
But I kept coming back to yourpodcast 'cause it felt to me
that it was easy to understand.
Uh, it was relatable and I didn'tfeel like, you know, um, yeah, it, it
just resonated in a way that wasn't.
It, it was science based, but itwasn't scientific, if that makes sense.
(11:39):
Um, so yeah, it really resonated.
So I just kept going on with that.
And then obviously I'd, uh,joined the cohorts as well.
So I'd learned that, you know, the UnstuckAcademy, and I thought I need more.
I feel like, you know, the podcastswere a good beginning, but I felt like
I needed a little more, so that's whenI, I made the commitment after that.
(12:01):
Anything else been like hugelyhelpful for you Outside of what I do?
Like, has anything elsebeen really great for you?
Yeah.
So I, I guess beginning, in thebeginning you had helped me understand
that neurobiological, you know,neurobiologic, biology of stuckness.
Yeah.
Being, um, which helped medemystify what I was going through.
(12:21):
It's been, you know, but it alsohas been very helpful to share this
journey and learn from other peoplein our little cohorts that we have.
And that in itself, that initself has made me feel less
alone and very supported.
Um, it's really difficult todescribe to other people in my life.
My family, friends and colleagues,what's happening for me.
And they'll often kind of brushit off and say things like,
(12:42):
just, you know, just get out.
Just go.
You know, just, you know, you justsnap out of it, make a decision.
Uh, and for me that made me feel less,less somehow it really found me feel like
I, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, mademe feel more hopeless, more helpless,
because I couldn't just do that.
So having that safe place where people dounderstand and being able to share some
(13:03):
of my experiences and listening to theirsnormalized, normalized things for me.
And it also inspired me totry new ideas and to continue,
um, my journey in this space.
But I also layered it inother different supports.
And that was, I found a traumainformed therapist, um, who worked.
And understood polyvagaltheory and worked somatically.
(13:26):
Um, I enlist, yeah, I enlisted thehelp of, of, yeah, I enlisted the help
of a friend so I could practice thoseco-regulation exercises with her and in
particular for me and her it was aboutwalking and sharing stories of nature.
So being able to do the natureand she was really good at doing
that um, and co-regulating.
(13:47):
And when she saw me become, youknow, she started to pick up on
cue, she draw me back to that naturespace and you know, where I was.
Um, I also have a journal practice.
I'm pretty good on that.
Um, so where I- I tracked my states,you know, I suppose instead of my moods.
So that was something that we talkedabout in one of our, um, little things.
(14:09):
And I, I'd started from there.
So tracking where I was at, um,and being able to really be.
your, you and yourfriend talked about that.
Sorry to.
No, no, no, no.
This is just another kind of,I guess, thing that I was doing
on top of all the other stuff.
So, but we would talk about it, myfriend and I. But that journal practice
was, I stopped, I, I guess I've alwaysbeen a bit of a journaler, but I kept
focusing on the moods in my journal,but then I started moving that for the
(14:34):
states, you know, um, like trackingwhere I was, being able to identify that.
So that actually helped as well.
Going back to that other questionabout, you know, what I was doing,
as you know, alongside, I, I startedGoogling and, and reading and I'd read
books like, um, I think I read The BodyKeeps the Score and another one called
(14:55):
Anchored and that that helped validatemy experience as well, which was good.
And I think something that you'd said awhile ago, which is what I had begun to
do, and I was looking for that quick fix,but rather than looking for the quick
one fix, I started to build a toolkit,I suppose, of those micro practices.
Each one of those little micro practicesthat we practice, the daily micro
(15:18):
challenges, were helping me access alittle bit more of myself each day.
Real quick, what she's referringto is the Daily Growth Hub.
This is where I post, uh, simplechallenges or discussion points to the
community Every day, every weekday.
Um, and there are a lot of timesthere are micro challenges, like tiny
little 30 seconds to two minutes,little challenges to help boost
(15:41):
safety or, uh, practice mindfulness.
That's,
wow.
You
Wow.
kept going above and beyond?
I think, um, what most people would do,and it's not, that's not sound comparative
or judgmental, but we, we do look forthose quick fixes, but really it's,
um, combination of the little things
(16:02):
Hmm.
plus co-regulation, plus nature,plus a therapist, like really just
these things, things came together.
So what has been the outcome so far?
Of these things are you comparedto where you were before?
How much safety do youhave in your system now?
'cause it sounds like that'sreally where you put a lot of your
attention compared to where you were.
What of like, and take it awayfrom there, but I'm, I'm kind of
(16:24):
curious on like a zero 10 scale.
That's where my mind goes.
But in
Yeah.
whatever way you wanna describe it.
How much safety do you have in yoursystem now compared to the past?
I guess I'd describe my baselineas being very low, previously I
was on a, a, a very, I guess twoout of 10 in that safety space.
And now I'm.
Yeah, yeah.
Then I was, or would'vebeen about a two outta 10.
(16:46):
And that's what I mean abouttracking my safety, you know,
tracking things in my journal.
I, I consistently do my, um do, dothat, you know, numbers, I suppose.
You know where I was at and now,and what I've noticed in, in,
after doing this stuff for a littlewhile now I'm more consistent.
That's probably where I'm more consistentis I'm consistently sitting around that
(17:08):
six to seven out of 10, and that meansthat I can access calm and connection most
days, which is very different to whereI was at, which was in the closet not
being able to access calm and connection.
I think what I noticed the most is nowI have an ability to notice when I'm
slipping and I can, I can gently coursecorrect, you know, I can gently pull
(17:30):
myself back in with some of the tools inmy little micro toolkit that I was talking
about before to bring myself back around.
So I never used to notice that before.
I used to, um, I neverunderstood that before.
I suppose I probably, 'cause Iwas living in that, I felt like
a constant state of shut down.
But now I can notice when I'mslipping back down that ladder
(17:53):
and then know what to do or try toknow what to do before I get there.
it's still a work in progress.
I don't always get itright, but I'm, I'm better.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
I, I don't.
I think it's a work in progressfor a while personally, and I
don't think it's ever somethingI've ever like done with exactly.
We always, I think, shouldbe practicing safety.
So the baseline, I mean, wow.
Six or seven, I think you said
(18:15):
Yeah.
shift in like ni- reallynice increase in Baseline.
This isn't just like momentarypractices, but like Baseline.
It's consistent.
I, and going back through my journal,I can see that, you know, which
was, yeah, it had gone from being aconsistent two to, you know, jumping up.
So, I mean, you know, it didn't,certainly didn't happen overnight and.
(18:36):
Um, I, I feel like I'm stillworking on it, but yeah.
I store myself hovering aroundthat six to seven most days.
So that felt good.
Wow.
Hmm.
you don't mind.
I'm, I'm looking up 'cause I don't thinkyou've been in the community that long.
you've,
Yeah.
it.
have you been here?
You been here
Uh, six months.
(18:57):
Six, yeah.
Six months.
Yep.
I, I guess I've made.
Yeah, I guess I've made it a, well,not, not like a full-time job, but I've
really put a lot of, it makes sense.
When it resonated, it made sense.
It was, it felt right and itfelt right and it made sense.
I could see those incremental, um, shiftsand I could feel, um, myself understanding
(19:22):
more about what was happening.
That was probably, like I said, the mostpivotal point for me was realizing that
there was an explanation for the way Iwas feeling and that that neurobiological
explanation and understanding that itwasn't, yeah, it was, it was manageable.
And then the community has been ahuge, you know, a huge help for me.
(19:44):
You know, having that, having thatability to connect with other people
who have experienced similar things andlearning from their experiences as well.
So that's, I think, um hasbeen a catalyst for a lot.
It's really kind of projecteda lot of my healing.
Yeah.
Did you no-, I'm reallyhappy to hear that-
(20:05):
yeah.
really happy to hear that.
Did, did you notice that thebaseline, it went from like a two
to a seven, was it right away orwas it over time that it increased?
Oh, it was definitely over timeand there was variances in the
fluctuations, I suppose, so bit bybit, you know, I, I, and that was it.
It was even hard to do that.
(20:26):
Journaling was really, reallyimportant, and that's why I say
that, you know, was a practice thatI had, so I'm becoming very, very.
Um, I guess militant almost about it.
As in, you know, I would really uh,sometimes I write in my journal and,
and record where my safety site was at,not once a day, but many times a day.
So I gradually, yeah, I gradually,you know, I, I actually hadn't
(20:50):
thought about that until I startedthinking about the questions and I
went back to my journal and I cansee the, the, the gains, so to speak.
I felt like I was in a gym, youknow, where you, where you measure
your, where you measure your bodyfat and things like that in a gym or
your, how much you can lift, I felt.
You know, you don't notice itin the moment, but you know,
over the time I was like, wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
I've moved.
(21:10):
Exactly.
I I love that metaphor, andthat's something I say a lot
is you gotta put the reps in.
It's, it's
Hmm,
anything else.
And it sounded like youwere not wasting time.
You were very focused on whatyou wanted to accomplish and
hmm hmm.
just steadily walk down thatpath and are still doing it.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So nice, really nice increases in safety.
(21:32):
Um, changes are you noticing in yourself?
Uh, are you noticing anyconnections to yourself or with
others or the other environment?
Uh, anything you're doing more or less of?
I'm probably, like I mentioned before,I'm probably a lot more self re
reflective without the that spiraling.
So I can, I can really look atwhere I am without spiraling, and
(21:53):
I'm more attuned to my body's cues.
And that's something that I was notdoing before, like really noticing.
I think there's a few things that wespoke about in some of the, um, some of
the discussions that we've had through,um, the Academy there or whatever we
had been talking about um you know,citrus, I remember something, you know,
we talked about, um, being, noticing,you know, how your body reacts or feels
(22:17):
towards things and safety cues as well.
So that was really interesting.
You know, as I'm really mindful, uh,very, very conscious when I'm doing
most of the things today, I'm reallypaying attention to how my body reacts.
Um, and then knowingwhat to do afterwards.
And I'm certainly less reactive, soI don't need to run back to the, um,
(22:37):
to the closet as much as I used to.
So I'm, I'm a a lot more tolerant.
Um, I'm reaching out more,um, which I never did.
I was very shut down.
I find myself responding tomessages, which I would never
do, um, in that shutdown state.
you are reaching out and respondingbecause you have to or because you
actually feel like you're ready for it and
No, I feel like, I feel like there'sa, there's a desire to, like, there was
(23:01):
no desire to whatsoever, so I'm still,I mean, I'm not, it's not perfect.
I'll only respond to certain thingsand certain people where I feel safe.
Um.
But you know, I wouldn'tdo any of that before.
So I'm certainly responding to messages.
I'm, you know, I'm making planswith people that I feel safe and
comfortable with, and I guessI'm letting myself be seen.
(23:24):
And letting myself be seen, eventhe imperfect version of myself,
which I wasn't doing before.
Okay.
I was holding that all togetherand presenting someone that seemed
on top of it and seemed, you know,capable, but wasn't, you know,
internally or outside of that space.
So now I'm a little bit more willing tolet myself be seen in that imperfect way.
(23:50):
Um,
Yeah, I mean, here youare doing this, right?
Like-
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I would, I wouldn'thave thought that before.
So the other thing, yeah, the otherthing is I'm, I'm really finding I'm
ruminating less, you know, I'm ru- I, Iused to ruminate a lot in that closet.
Um, and I'm finding I'm resting more.
So I know that sounds funnybecause in that shutdown state,
(24:10):
that feels like all you're doing.
But in that shutdown state, it wasa constant dialogue in my head.
Um, and now there's a morerestful state, which I like.
Um, and you know, not going aroundand around and churning things over,
which was just really difficult.
Um, i'm starting to find one of thebig things for me was I stop, stop
(24:32):
listening to music and I'm findingmyself listening to music again.
And, you know, even thatmusic was too overwhelming.
It was too much.
And I'd always found, um, myselflistening to music as a way of,
you know, um, yeah, feeling good.
But I shut that down and shut that out.
So I'm starting to put that in.
I'm my dark closet.
(24:53):
That I spoke about.
So I'm beginning to let sunlightback into my space, which I felt
like a vampire for a while there.
I, I just didn't want it.
I didn't want music.
I didn't want light.
I didn't want anything, nothing.
There was nothing, you know, and evenI. I've started, there's something
yesterday I've known, I'm on abit of a sourdough kick right now.
I'm starting to cook forpleasure, you know, not just
(25:15):
for survival, but for pleasure.
And I, I'm enjoying it.
You know, I'm, I'm enjoying puttingthat energy, you know, or finding
the energy a and b, putting itinto, you know, creating something
and being mindful about something.
And yeah, while I'm cookingthat sourdough, I'm, yeah,
I'm, I'm there in that moment.
It's sticky.
(25:35):
It's, you know, it's.
Yeah, I'm out of the closet andI'm in the kitchen and it's fun.
So it's not just because Ineed to eat, because I need
to survive, but I need to eat.
And prior to that, I'd lost ahell of a lot of weight, um, in
my shutdown space, like a lot.
And, um, because I didn't want to eat andI didn't, there was no pleasure in eating.
(25:58):
I didn't.
I didn't wanna prepare anythingand I didn't need to eat.
I wasn't doing anything.
So I, yeah, I lost a lot of weightand people were commenting on that.
So I know it sounds funny, the cookingfor pleasure, but now I'm doing that
and I'm enjoying what I'm eating.
It's, it's a lot of bread rightnow, but I've, you know, gained
that weight back and I'm feelingbetter about where I am physically.
(26:22):
You've already shared with us a wholebunch of examples of getting unstuck
and what that's led to, but is thereone concrete example for you that
really sticks out to you that says,I'm definitely unstuck or much less
stuck than I was not that long ago?
I can think of a moment that I guess,um, probably relates to my work, um,
(26:42):
my, my professional life and I thinksomething that I'd avoided for, for quite
some time and, and there was a momentwhere I had to initiate a difficult.
But honest conversation with someonethat was professionally close to me.
Um, and you know, I guess whileI was doing that, I noticed that
my heart was pounding, you know?
And I was like, Ooh, I noticedthose physical body cues.
(27:04):
But I stayed in that moment.
You know, I noticed that they were thereand I understood why they were there.
I validated them, youknow, and normalized them.
And I was able to express what I neededto express, what I needed to express.
It was a conversation thatI had to have, and I didn't
collapse into shame afterwards.
That's the bit that I noticed, youknow, I didn't, didn't collapse
into that shame afterwards.
(27:25):
And I guess that night, instead ofdisassociating what I would normally,
which is what I would normally do, and,you know, shut down and find the closet,
I journaled about it, but I did it with.
Some compassion this time, youknow, for myself and the situation.
And I think that was the firsttime I really saw myself choosing
connection over withdrawal, um,which I had actively been doing for,
(27:50):
for those two to three years prior.
So it, it wasn't easy, but it wascertainly, I think, a breakthrough
or a turning point, whatever youkind of wanna call it, of moving
out of that really stuck place.
That's a great example.
What- the compassion that you broughtto the journaling, was it forced or
was it already there because of allthe safety practices you've been doing?
(28:11):
I think a bit of both.
I think I had to bereally mindful about it.
I had to tell myself, you know, I wasdoing the, a bit of the AWE stuff-
Real quick interlude.
When she says the AWE stuff,she's referring to a process
from one of the courses.
It's called the AWE method.
AWE.
A stands for Anchored Awareness.
W is Witness, and E is Experience.
(28:32):
This teaches people how to deeplyconnect with their emotions.
I think I had to bereally mindful about it.
I had to tell myself, you know, I wasdoing the, a bit of the AWE stuff- um, and
being, you know, I put it at the top of myjournal sometimes as a bit of a reminder.
I think I once mentioned to you, I putit on my, I write it on my, on my hands
sometimes to remind myself, and that's,it's made a little bit of a trigger to,
(28:54):
to be, you know, aware and, um, yeah.
So there was a little bit of both.
The compassion was there, I think,but I, I mindfully wrote about
it in a compassionate way insteadof the way- well, I wouldn't have
written before anyway, so it wasjust the way that I'd expressed it.
You mentioned I want to comeback to go into the closet less.
(29:15):
Are you still going intothe closet when you need to?
No, no, I haven't, like, I haven't, likeI said, when I went back now, I have
not been in there a while for a while.
I'm still, you know, I still findcomfort in, um, some days is still
too bright and too loud, I supposefor me, depending on how I'm feeling.
Um.
(29:35):
But yeah, that six to seven consistencymeans that I am opening the curtains
more and I'm out of the, out of thatspace a bit more, and I can let the light
in and put some music on and be movingaround a bit more than what I used to.
I probably, another thing that I didin my toolkit, uh, I didn't mention
(29:56):
before, was that daily practice.
I, I found a, whew, itwas hard to begin with.
It was a, a micro thing,a five minute practice.
I started with five minutes andwent to 10 and up to 15 of Tai Chi
on YouTube 'cause I didn't want togo out and do a class with people.
So I, I found myself out of the closetand just doing a YouTube thing of a
(30:17):
Tai chi, which is that gentle movement.
And people kept saying to me, 'causeI was such a big, you know, physical
person, you know, you need to go fora run or you need to swim, or you
need to go for a ride, or whatever.
And oh, the thought of that wasso, so far from where I was.
I couldn't, you know, I didn't, wouldn'twanna come out of the closet, but
that little five minute, gentle fiveminute movement was yeah, something
(30:42):
that I really came to rely on.
So, yeah, that was really,
right?
Like it's, it's
yeah.
it's intentional.
It's not too much andit's a small practice.
That's perfect.
For someone who is, who is currentlyin the shoes that you were in
about six months ago, what isone piece of specific, direct,
(31:03):
practical, actionable advice that you
Yeah.
I think start with abody, not with your story.
And not to try and think your wayout of it, which is what I was doing.
So instead, find one small thing thatmakes you feel safe or more pleasant.
You know, I think we'd spokenabout at times, like a soft
blanket, a warm cup of tea.
(31:25):
You had that one.
And that's something that I've clung tothat warm cup of tea, just feeling it.
Um, pets, you know, the five minutes withmy pet, um, and letting my nervous system.
Have that moment, or letting your nervoussystem have that moment, and then from
there you can build capacity to feel more.
So I always looked at it as safetyis the soil and healing is the plant.
(31:48):
So, you know, having that safety,being able to ground myself in the
soil, um, and then the healing camefrom that growth from that space.
So letting, letting my bodystarting with the body.
Super easy, use senses.
Yeah.
Small moment,
Yeah.
not 30 minutes, not anhour of meditation, but
No.
(32:09):
maybe of
Yeah,
It's pretty
yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Okay.
Progress is not alwayspermanent without the effort.
Um, obviously you've put theeffort in, you still are,
doesn't sound like you're done.
I don't think we're ever done.
But you're, um, still doing it.
How you actively maintaining your yourgrowth and the, uh, progress you've made?
(32:34):
What are you doing day in, day out to makesure you don't step back to a three or
four or five on the safety scale, maybe?
Hmm.
So I think I've, I've kind of mentionedbefore, I've, I've got my daily,
uh, my daily rituals that remindme that my nervous system is safe.
So that morning movement in the Tai Chiclass, that's the time in nature that
(32:56):
I mindfully and, you know, ensure thatI do the gratitude journaling or the
compassion journaling I'm calling it.
Um, also checking in regularly with thetherapist that I spoke about before.
Um, as a bit of a, a stop gap,um, avoiding over consuming that
triggering content for myself.
So making sure I'm balancing all of that.
(33:18):
Um, I guess most importantly, I treatany of those setbacks before, um, I was
treating them as like a big setback.
Now I see them as signals, not failures.
Um, so they're just a, a bit ofa. Yeah, A signal, not a failure.
And I return that, that,that forces well forces me.
That's my trigger then to return back tomy toolkit with kindness and compassion
(33:42):
and remembering that maintenance is ofthe, of this journey that we are talking
about now, it's part of that healing,that soil and, but going back to that
space is part of that healing and it'snot really proof that I've failed.
It's just part of the healing journey.
So none of what you're doing isoverwhelming, hugely demanding.
It sounds like it's just stuffthat you recognize feels good and
(34:05):
is manageable, involves others.
Got a little bit of nature in there,rituals, like it's pretty darn
practical things that you're doing.
Nothing
Yeah.
Nope.
Nope.
I'm super curious, if you don'tmind me adding, adding then- did you
utilize, uh, anything with your somatictherapist, maybe, or, or just in your
(34:26):
learning, sort of parts work or shadowstuff or ego stuff or any of those
other psychological abstract ideas?
Did they, did those comeinto play at all for you?
I.
Not really.
Not really.
Um, I guess it was, I've just beenprobably single focused on, so what,
what I'm doing here and I'm findinggood ground, so I don't, yeah.
(34:49):
I haven't wanted to, well, my mind'snot been in a space where I can kind
of manage anything extra anyway, butI feel like this is giving me so much
relief and so much progress and somuch, um, yeah inspiration that I,
I just- doing that daily practice.
I just don't wanna messwith it at this point.
It's giving me that two to three to,you know, going to six to seven and I
(35:12):
can exist- I can exist at six to seven.
Um, yeah.
And, and function.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I know I, I still feel abit, I guess, you know, it's early days.
I still feel a bit like itcould all be taken away from me.
There's a little bit of fear andapprehension there, and I think
that's just building, you know,um, keep that the daily practice.
(35:34):
You know, keeping that daily practice,so I know I can come back to it.
That's, that's something that I can trust.
Um, but it's working, so I can't see thepoint in incorporating too much more.
Maybe down the track, I don't know.
But while this is working,I'm happy to stay with it.
For sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Anything else you want to add in that?
I mean, wow, what a story and I, Ithink from personally, before you
(35:57):
add in anything else, if you want tohearing relentless dedicated practice
and none of it sounded overwhelming.
None of it sounded like you weretrying to take on the world.
It all sounded very practical.
Small things.
Yeah, and it was, it was exactly that.
The, the thought of doing, likeI said, even opening a curtain or
(36:18):
listening to music was overwhelming.
So, you know, the thought of what myfriends were saying, just go for a run
or come out in the boat for the day.
I was like, whew, no thank you.
But that small little one thing andI, it honestly did start with things
like having that cup of tea and reallybeing mindful or watching the leaves
in the trees or, yeah, just reallysmall stuff, those micro moments.
(36:39):
So I really, really, um, yeah,beginning things and I'm, I'm building.
But it wasn't hard.
It really wasn't hard.
It really wasn't hard.
I mean, you can literally start inthe closet if you really want to.
Um, I, I wouldn't suggestit, I wouldn't promote that.
But you could.
Yeah.
I still smile when, yeah.
(37:00):
I still smile when I go to thecloset though, like the closet.
It's a space for me.
It's, I don't see it asa punishment, you know?
It was a safe space forme for a little while.
It gave me sanctuary.
So I'm not too hard on it and I'm nottoo hard on myself for using that.
It, it got me through, but it's a placethat I'm happy to go into now and hang
up my clothes as opposed to existing.
(37:20):
So, yeah.
And you know, there was a lotof times that I'd listen to
your podcast in the closet.
So, you know, I would, I would laythere and I would just listen and, uh,
there was not a lot of other sensorythings going on, so the focus was
just your voice a lot of the time.
So it was a beginning.
Um, thank, I'm honored to havejoined you in the closet there.
Thank you for that.
(37:41):
The other messages, I'm glad thatyou, you found the path that you
did and, and here you are, like, I'mso happy for you you're sharing it.
Thank you for that again, butthis is super weird, right?
What we do is fundamentallydifferent, I think, than like
what your friends tell you.
Well just do this instead.
Like, I'm not in, inour community, we don't.
for making our feelings go away.
(38:03):
We're not trying to fightthem or banish them.
saying like, let's compassionatelybe with them and feel them.
How do you, how do you, that's aforeign idea, I think, to people.
So I don't know.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
Maybe is I, I don't know.
What, where does that, where doesthat take you in your mind like that?
I'm curious.
Like you said, like the being ableto banish 'em, they were such a
(38:26):
big part of me, those feelings,I couldn't just banish 'em.
They were overwhelming.
So I think there was part of our, youknow, when we're in our community, one
of the things that we spoke about oncewas having those feelings alongside you.
And doing some of those,those practices anyway.
So visualizing them for me, I visualizethem as a, as something, you know, and I
put them in my, I think, I don't know ifwe'd spoken about the different ways of
(38:46):
doing that, but I put them in my pocket.
Real quick sidebar, what she's referringto when she says visualizing and the
whole pocket thing, she's referring to apractice called permitting at level one.
Permitting at level one, uh, teacheshow to use your imagination or
imagery in order to permit an emotionthat is otherwise too much like,
(39:08):
uh, pressure or guilt or whatever.
So we use our imagination andthen invite it to be with us
as we also do something else.
This is a level one easier, um,compared to level two, which has
a much deeper felt sense, somaticexperience of these emotions.
but I put them in my pocket.
So that meant that I didn'thave to discard them.
(39:30):
I didn't have to banish them, Ididn't have to push them away.
They were still with me and they wereallowed to be with me, but I could
still do the other stuff as well.
And that felt better.
That felt safer for me 'cause I wasn't,you know, I was scared about banishing
them all together 'cause what, whowas I if that, if that all went away?
And I was already feeling numb anddisconnected, so it was a scary thing
(39:54):
to think that I, I wasn't gonna havethat last little bit of feeling.
So I think being able to put it in mypocket and stay with it so it didn't
go away and, and function and continuein those daily practices was good.
It was good.
It was where I was able to do thatand, um, yeah, accept, and like I
said before, not think through it.
(40:15):
You know, I, I stopped thinkingand I started just going, okay, I'm
just gonna put this in my pocket.
It doesn't have to go away.
It doesn't have to beanywhere besides with me.
It's okay for it to be with me, um,but I'm still gonna go and sit in
nature, or I'm still gonna go and havethat cup of tea and be mindful, so
I start treating it like the enemy.
Yeah.
(40:36):
Stop treating it like the enemy do.
And you've,
Yeah.
hearing that you also got closer,not just in your pocket, but like you
actually got closer to or are feeling it.
Directly as well.
Not just
hmm.
visualization, that's one skill, butyou've gone to the next level, which is
feeling it compassionately from safety
Hmm.
and mindfully connecting with it.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Yes.
Yeah, that was the key-from safety, I think.
(40:58):
And that was, it was timing a lot ofit, but a mindful timing, you know,
being understood that, you know, beforeit would, sometimes that feeling would
ambush me or hijack me, you know?
And um, and it would come at times thatI wasn't wanting it to come, and then I
would feel dysregulated and, you know,go down back into that shutdown state.
But if I'm mindfully and, you know,with choice, um and volition, I
(41:23):
suppose, put myself in a place whereI knew I was safe and then allowed
myself to, to go to that feeling space.
It, it felt more manageable.
Definitely.
Thanks so much for joiningme here on Stuck, Not Broken,
and thank you again, Eva.
Dear listener, I hope thisepisode has helped you realize
that unstuck is not easy, but itcan be practical and methodical.
(41:48):
Heck yes, it takesdedication just like Eva's.
But if you don't have that muchmotivation right now, that's okay.
You do have enough motivation to searchfor this topic and to watch this video
in particular all the way to the end.
You obviously have some level ofmotivation, so let's use that.
So I invite you to pick one thing toaccomplish right now, to start or continue
(42:15):
down your unstuck path . I know thereare tons of options and you don't know
where to begin, so make it super simpleby mindfully connecting with one of your
senses for 30 seconds or less, that'sfine too, or longer, that's fine, too.
Use one sense.
And bring as much of your full attentionto the experience of it that you can
(42:39):
notice how using that one sense affectsyour breathing and your muscle tension.
And if you can do that,then repeat it tomorrow.
This is how you start.
Connect with the environment, using yoursenses for 30 seconds or less or more,
but aim for something short and sweet.
Eva, you are absolutely killing it.
(43:01):
Keep going.
Thank you again so much for sharingyour success and I cannot wait to
hear about what else opens up for you.
Dear listener, if you would like to jointhe Untucking Academy, you can learn
more through the link in the description.
It is JustinLMFT.com/UnstuckingAcademy.
(43:22):
In the Academy, you can connectwith amazing people like Eva.
You can get, uh, super simple steps tohelp build safety and you can learn how to
get unstuck so you can finally live withmore calm, confidence, and connection.
Thank you once again for joining me.
Bye.
You've learned the polyvagal theory.
You are stuck in a defensive state.
You don't know what to do next,and you are looking for hope.
Is it actually possible to get unstuck?
Can somebody recover maybe fromshutdown in particular, but in
a defensive state in general?
Can you actually feel safe andbuild your body's safety state?
(00:22):
In this episode, we hear from Eva.
She has successfully unstuck herselffrom shutdown and shares with us a bit
of her story- what's been helpful andgives you super duper practical tips to
start your own untucking process today.
Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.
(00:43):
I'm a therapist and coach who helpsyou live more calmly, confidently, and
connected without psychobabble or woo woo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
This podcast is of course not therapy,nor is it intended to replace therapy.
Oh, real quick, and before you ask,no, this is not a paid testimonial
(01:04):
from an Unstucking Academy member.
I've had more and more people asking mefor stories of success, not necessarily
from the community, but just in general.
Are there stories of success for peoplecoming out of a stuck defensive state?
So that's where this came from- inresponse to this audience and its needs,
(01:27):
I asked current and past UnstuckingAcademy students if they would share
their success story, and Eva volunteered.
Once again, Eva, thank you somuch for sharing your success
and for helping the next person.
The first thing Eva shares isabout her stuck defensive state
and what life used to be like.
(01:48):
so I, I guess I lived in that dorsalvagal shutdown state for probably several
years, and essentially I was a, it wasa state of emotional, I guess, numbness,
disconnection, even helplessness.
And I, I wasn't just tired, Iwas really withdrawn from life.
Um, I began avoiding confrontationchallenges and sadly, even joy.
(02:12):
So I didn't want anything.
Everything felt like it was too much.
Uh, looking back, I now realize that I'doperated in, I guess, a survival mode.
I was functioning, but I wasn'tliving for maybe two to three years
prior to, prior to where I am now.
And that disconnection, that's where Ireally found it most, the numbness and the
disconnection and just that helplessness.
(02:33):
Like I said, it was just the inabilityto, um, kind of see a way forward and
even, um, yeah, just withdrawing justthat real heavy, heavy, heavy feeling.
So was your shutdown more acute, limitedtime, or was that something that was,
that had been around for a lifetime?
It was a gradual kindof slipping, I suppose.
(02:55):
I didn't really notice otherpeople noticed before I did.
The disconnection and thewithdrawing from life.
I hadn't realized that I wasdoing it as much as I, I was.
That turning point for me when Irecognized that I was really stuck and
something needed to change was not adramatic moment, but a really quiet, and I
guess a painful moment when I noticed thatI really did not feel anything anymore.
(03:18):
There wasn't any sadness,no joy, and not even anger.
So I think that's probably, you know, forme, where I was really noticing it 'cause
not that I'm an angry person, but things,things just didn't get under my skin.
I just, I just shrugged my shoulderskind of thing and keep going.
And yes, where I really noticed it wasI was sitting alone at a family, like
(03:41):
a social gathering, um, a barbecue, andI was really not wanting to be there.
I was scrolling, really numblythrough my phone because I
didn't wanna engage with anybody.
And it was at that moment I could hearpeople around me having a good time.
And I realized that I hadn't truly laughedor cried or connected with anybody or
anything really in months and months.
(04:02):
And I guess that was a momentwhere it hit me and I realized
that this, this isn't who I am.
Um, I was no longer hiding my emotions.
I'd kind of lost them ormisplaced them all together.
So that's like that slipping away
Yeah.
that.
Like in that moment they weren't there.
But before that there was like a hidingor, and we all do it, like there's
(04:22):
some sort of repression or denial orsomething like that, I'm assuming?
Yeah.
Yes, exactly.
Yeah.
And I made up excuses, um, as to why Iwasn't doing things or, um, why I was
withdrawing the way I was, you know?
And it, that kind of went well fora while with people, I suppose.
You know, I was working hard, I wasdoing this, I was doing that, but really
I wasn't, I just didn't want to engage.
(04:45):
So if someone did not know you andthey saw you in this, this shutdown
period, would they look at you andsay, oh, she's got it together.
She has her stuff together and she hasa functional life, or would they see
someone who's like at home, isolatedin a dark room or a little bit of both?
I guess a little bit of both.
So if you didn't know me, you wouldsee me functioning and I would take
(05:08):
every tiny little bit of energy, whichthere was not- it was very depleted
anyway, but I would use all of that toget to work and do what I had to do.
But even then, cracks started to appearwith colleagues and things like that.
But as soon as I got home, and evenwhen I was going home in the car,
I, I couldn't wait to get home.
So I could go and literally in thatdark room closet sometimes, and.
(05:28):
Kinda makes me feel emotionalto hear about that now, but
that's where I wanted to be.
And it was, it's funny you shouldsay that, because it was a closet,
a dark closet where it was.
was a closet.
Yep.
And there was four walls and it was darkand it was contained and it felt safe.
Um, so that's where I spent a lotof time and it's, yeah, it's a
(05:51):
bit hard to speak about now, butyeah, that's, that was my place.
for sure.
And, um,
Giselle, it,
you, you have complete control here, okay?
Yeah, thank you.
You okay?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's just,
and talking.
yeah, no, I know.
And when, when I go back to thinkabout that, yeah, it's, I, and you
know, I guess we'll get to that.
(06:12):
I haven't been in that closet fora while now, so it sounds, it's
metaphoric in some ways, but it wasliteral for me as well, and it wasn't,
I didn't see it as a bad place.
I saw it as a very safe place.
Yeah, it wasn't living, iswhat I'm saying, you know?
I was very aware that people wereout there functioning on a level
that was, I used to be at socialand I was a very vibrant person.
(06:32):
I was very engaged with lifeand, um, people around me.
It was me that was the social,you know, butterfly, so to speak.
And I was very into sports and very intoa probably over socializer, um, with not
much of a, a, a break in that, um, in thatsocial space to, to go from that where
I was the, you know, the orchestratorof social gatherings and getting
(06:56):
togethers and parties and things likethat to living in a closet, so to speak.
It was really, really hard.
Yeah.
huge change.
Hmm.
an enormous change.
I mean, that's thecomplete opposite of, of
Yeah.
A lot of people would saythat this is not my true self.
The-
No, no.
(07:17):
this isn't me.
Yeah.
Yeah.
that's kinda what you're saying.
And then I questioned who I was, you know,and it's like, well, which is the real me?
You know, which is the bit that's,um, which part of me is real?
And I, you know, I guess there'sstill some questions there.
I'm still finding myself along the way.
I don't know that I wanna return back tothe old person, but I'm, I'm not sure.
(07:38):
Yeah.
It's, it's a, it's a process and ajourney, so I'm definitely on it.
a hundred percent.
Yeah, I agree with you.
I feel like I'm
learning about myself all the
Hmm.
Hmm.
Achieve or unlock or this, it's, it'snot just like achieving something.
It's, it's the emotional of like,oh, I'm, I'm capable of that.
(07:58):
Yes.
stuck now than I wascomparatively in the past.
Yeah,
All right.
Okay.
So you realize that this familyget together, that this is not.
I'm not happy.
I'm not feeling anything.
I'm not even feeling anger.
I'm not feeling sadness.
I'm numb.
Yeah.
was, did you take immediateaction to help or, or what?
(08:19):
What was the first thing you did?
How long did it take?
Yeah.
I think for me that first step was kindof simple, but it was powerful, and that
was naming that state that I was in.
Um.
Learning about the Polyvagal Theory helpedme realize that my body wasn't broken
or lazy- it was actually protecting me.
And for me, that changed everything.
I started with those, um, short somaticexercises, orientating to the room,
(08:43):
those soft eye gazes, longer exhales.
But, um, you know, prior to that,which is how I started, I guess
I found one of your podcasts.
Um, um, so I gone googling as youdo, you know, I was looking for
something that would guide me.
Um, and I found one of the podcasts.
And the podcast I found was anepisode that explained the, the,
(09:04):
the, the states, the defense statesin very, very plain language.
And that's what I needed, I think.
And that gave me that permissionto stop blaming myself and instead
focus on building some safety.
So.
I guess that's where it allstarted and that's where those
wheels started turning for me.
Did you take immediate action
yes.
(09:24):
sit with it for a little bit?
No, I think, I think that immediateaction, going back to what I was starting
with those short exercises, and I rememberlistening to that first podcast and
then probably binge binge listening.
Um, 'cause I wanted, I understoodfor a moment there I was
like, oh my gosh, this is me.
This is how I feel, and it wasplain language and I understood it.
(09:46):
And so I kept listening and I kindof scrolled ahead, so to speak,
you know, went ahead and tried tofind the, the quick fix and went
to the building safety anchors.
And, um, I didn't wanna wait.
I wanted to, you know, I wanted the, Iwanted that fix, so I went to those, yeah,
those little exercises there that we talk,you know, you, we've been talking about.
So those, you know, the soft eyegazes, the breathing, you know,
(10:09):
orientating myself to the roomand things like that, so that.
That's where it started.
Did you
Yeah.
the quick fix?
No, no.
Not a quick fix, but the, I guessthe quick fix in some ways was it's
that, you know, that, like I said,it was a simple but powerful one.
It was naming that state that I wasin, so that was, it was like a moment
(10:31):
which changed everything, you know?
It changed everything.
So, yeah, and that's, that was quick.
In some ways it wasn't quick gettingthere, but it was a quick understanding.
I thought.
I thought that I would go throughlots and lots and lots of different
therapies and different, um, youknow, to try and find the right thing.
But listening to your pod, that firstpodcast was like, "oh," it was- it
(10:55):
just felt too easy in some ways.
So I felt like I must've beenmissing something, but it's been.
Um, yeah.
It's been, it's been a journey, butdefinitely one that I felt like it,
it fit right from the beginning.
I'd listened to your podcast,that first podcast, and then
I listened to a few more.
And then you'd mentioned, um,Deb Dana and Stephen Porges.
(11:18):
And so I went off and looked, watched,you know, some of their stuff as well.
But I kept coming back to yourpodcast 'cause it felt to me
that it was easy to understand.
Uh, it was relatable and I didn'tfeel like, you know, um, yeah, it, it
just resonated in a way that wasn't.
It, it was science based, but itwasn't scientific, if that makes sense.
(11:39):
Um, so yeah, it really resonated.
So I just kept going on with that.
And then obviously I'd, uh,joined the cohorts as well.
So I'd learned that, you know, the UnstuckAcademy, and I thought I need more.
I feel like, you know, the podcastswere a good beginning, but I felt like
I needed a little more, so that's whenI, I made the commitment after that.
(12:01):
Anything else been like hugelyhelpful for you Outside of what I do?
Like, has anything elsebeen really great for you?
Yeah.
So I, I guess beginning, in thebeginning you had helped me understand
that neurobiological, you know,neurobiologic, biology of stuckness.
Yeah.
Being, um, which helped medemystify what I was going through.
(12:21):
It's been, you know, but it alsohas been very helpful to share this
journey and learn from other peoplein our little cohorts that we have.
And that in itself, that initself has made me feel less
alone and very supported.
Um, it's really difficult todescribe to other people in my life.
My family, friends and colleagues,what's happening for me.
And they'll often kind of brushit off and say things like,
(12:42):
just, you know, just get out.
Just go.
You know, just, you know, you justsnap out of it, make a decision.
Uh, and for me that made me feel less,less somehow it really found me feel like
I, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, mademe feel more hopeless, more helpless,
because I couldn't just do that.
So having that safe place where people dounderstand and being able to share some
(13:03):
of my experiences and listening to theirsnormalized, normalized things for me.
And it also inspired me totry new ideas and to continue,
um, my journey in this space.
But I also layered it inother different supports.
And that was, I found a traumainformed therapist, um, who worked.
And understood polyvagaltheory and worked somatically.
(13:26):
Um, I enlist, yeah, I enlisted thehelp of, of, yeah, I enlisted the help
of a friend so I could practice thoseco-regulation exercises with her and in
particular for me and her it was aboutwalking and sharing stories of nature.
So being able to do the natureand she was really good at doing
that um, and co-regulating.
(13:47):
And when she saw me become, youknow, she started to pick up on
cue, she draw me back to that naturespace and you know, where I was.
Um, I also have a journal practice.
I'm pretty good on that.
Um, so where I- I tracked my states,you know, I suppose instead of my moods.
So that was something that we talkedabout in one of our, um, little things.
(14:09):
And I, I'd started from there.
So tracking where I was at, um,and being able to really be.
your, you and yourfriend talked about that.
Sorry to.
No, no, no, no.
This is just another kind of,I guess, thing that I was doing
on top of all the other stuff.
So, but we would talk about it, myfriend and I. But that journal practice
was, I stopped, I, I guess I've alwaysbeen a bit of a journaler, but I kept
focusing on the moods in my journal,but then I started moving that for the
(14:34):
states, you know, um, like trackingwhere I was, being able to identify that.
So that actually helped as well.
Going back to that other questionabout, you know, what I was doing,
as you know, alongside, I, I startedGoogling and, and reading and I'd read
books like, um, I think I read The BodyKeeps the Score and another one called
(14:55):
Anchored and that that helped validatemy experience as well, which was good.
And I think something that you'd said awhile ago, which is what I had begun to
do, and I was looking for that quick fix,but rather than looking for the quick
one fix, I started to build a toolkit,I suppose, of those micro practices.
Each one of those little micro practicesthat we practice, the daily micro
(15:18):
challenges, were helping me access alittle bit more of myself each day.
Real quick, what she's referringto is the Daily Growth Hub.
This is where I post, uh, simplechallenges or discussion points to the
community Every day, every weekday.
Um, and there are a lot of timesthere are micro challenges, like tiny
little 30 seconds to two minutes,little challenges to help boost
(15:41):
safety or, uh, practice mindfulness.
That's,
wow.
You
Wow.
kept going above and beyond?
I think, um, what most people would do,and it's not, that's not sound comparative
or judgmental, but we, we do look forthose quick fixes, but really it's,
um, combination of the little things
(16:02):
Hmm.
plus co-regulation, plus nature,plus a therapist, like really just
these things, things came together.
So what has been the outcome so far?
Of these things are you comparedto where you were before?
How much safety do youhave in your system now?
'cause it sounds like that'sreally where you put a lot of your
attention compared to where you were.
What of like, and take it awayfrom there, but I'm, I'm kind of
(16:24):
curious on like a zero 10 scale.
That's where my mind goes.
But in
Yeah.
whatever way you wanna describe it.
How much safety do you have in yoursystem now compared to the past?
I guess I'd describe my baselineas being very low, previously I
was on a, a, a very, I guess twoout of 10 in that safety space.
And now I'm.
Yeah, yeah.
Then I was, or would'vebeen about a two outta 10.
(16:46):
And that's what I mean abouttracking my safety, you know,
tracking things in my journal.
I, I consistently do my, um do, dothat, you know, numbers, I suppose.
You know where I was at and now,and what I've noticed in, in,
after doing this stuff for a littlewhile now I'm more consistent.
That's probably where I'm more consistentis I'm consistently sitting around that
(17:08):
six to seven out of 10, and that meansthat I can access calm and connection most
days, which is very different to whereI was at, which was in the closet not
being able to access calm and connection.
I think what I noticed the most is nowI have an ability to notice when I'm
slipping and I can, I can gently coursecorrect, you know, I can gently pull
(17:30):
myself back in with some of the tools inmy little micro toolkit that I was talking
about before to bring myself back around.
So I never used to notice that before.
I used to, um, I neverunderstood that before.
I suppose I probably, 'cause Iwas living in that, I felt like
a constant state of shut down.
But now I can notice when I'mslipping back down that ladder
(17:53):
and then know what to do or try toknow what to do before I get there.
it's still a work in progress.
I don't always get itright, but I'm, I'm better.
Yeah.
Oh yeah.
I, I don't.
I think it's a work in progressfor a while personally, and I
don't think it's ever somethingI've ever like done with exactly.
We always, I think, shouldbe practicing safety.
So the baseline, I mean, wow.
Six or seven, I think you said
(18:15):
Yeah.
shift in like ni- reallynice increase in Baseline.
This isn't just like momentarypractices, but like Baseline.
It's consistent.
I, and going back through my journal,I can see that, you know, which
was, yeah, it had gone from being aconsistent two to, you know, jumping up.
So, I mean, you know, it didn't,certainly didn't happen overnight and.
(18:36):
Um, I, I feel like I'm stillworking on it, but yeah.
I store myself hovering aroundthat six to seven most days.
So that felt good.
Wow.
Hmm.
you don't mind.
I'm, I'm looking up 'cause I don't thinkyou've been in the community that long.
you've,
Yeah.
it.
have you been here?
You been here
Uh, six months.
(18:57):
Six, yeah.
Six months.
Yep.
I, I guess I've made.
Yeah, I guess I've made it a, well,not, not like a full-time job, but I've
really put a lot of, it makes sense.
When it resonated, it made sense.
It was, it felt right and itfelt right and it made sense.
I could see those incremental, um, shiftsand I could feel, um, myself understanding
(19:22):
more about what was happening.
That was probably, like I said, the mostpivotal point for me was realizing that
there was an explanation for the way Iwas feeling and that that neurobiological
explanation and understanding that itwasn't, yeah, it was, it was manageable.
And then the community has been ahuge, you know, a huge help for me.
(19:44):
You know, having that, having thatability to connect with other people
who have experienced similar things andlearning from their experiences as well.
So that's, I think, um hasbeen a catalyst for a lot.
It's really kind of projecteda lot of my healing.
Yeah.
Did you no-, I'm reallyhappy to hear that-
(20:05):
yeah.
really happy to hear that.
Did, did you notice that thebaseline, it went from like a two
to a seven, was it right away orwas it over time that it increased?
Oh, it was definitely over timeand there was variances in the
fluctuations, I suppose, so bit bybit, you know, I, I, and that was it.
It was even hard to do that.
(20:26):
Journaling was really, reallyimportant, and that's why I say
that, you know, was a practice thatI had, so I'm becoming very, very.
Um, I guess militant almost about it.
As in, you know, I would really uh,sometimes I write in my journal and,
and record where my safety site was at,not once a day, but many times a day.
So I gradually, yeah, I gradually,you know, I, I actually hadn't
(20:50):
thought about that until I startedthinking about the questions and I
went back to my journal and I cansee the, the, the gains, so to speak.
I felt like I was in a gym, youknow, where you, where you measure
your, where you measure your bodyfat and things like that in a gym or
your, how much you can lift, I felt.
You know, you don't notice itin the moment, but you know,
over the time I was like, wow.
Yeah.
Okay.
I've moved.
(21:10):
Exactly.
I I love that metaphor, andthat's something I say a lot
is you gotta put the reps in.
It's, it's
Hmm,
anything else.
And it sounded like youwere not wasting time.
You were very focused on whatyou wanted to accomplish and
hmm hmm.
just steadily walk down thatpath and are still doing it.
Yeah.
So, okay.
So nice, really nice increases in safety.
(21:32):
Um, changes are you noticing in yourself?
Uh, are you noticing anyconnections to yourself or with
others or the other environment?
Uh, anything you're doing more or less of?
I'm probably, like I mentioned before,I'm probably a lot more self re
reflective without the that spiraling.
So I can, I can really look atwhere I am without spiraling, and
(21:53):
I'm more attuned to my body's cues.
And that's something that I was notdoing before, like really noticing.
I think there's a few things that wespoke about in some of the, um, some of
the discussions that we've had through,um, the Academy there or whatever we
had been talking about um you know,citrus, I remember something, you know,
we talked about, um, being, noticing,you know, how your body reacts or feels
(22:17):
towards things and safety cues as well.
So that was really interesting.
You know, as I'm really mindful, uh,very, very conscious when I'm doing
most of the things today, I'm reallypaying attention to how my body reacts.
Um, and then knowingwhat to do afterwards.
And I'm certainly less reactive, soI don't need to run back to the, um,
(22:37):
to the closet as much as I used to.
So I'm, I'm a a lot more tolerant.
Um, I'm reaching out more,um, which I never did.
I was very shut down.
I find myself responding tomessages, which I would never
do, um, in that shutdown state.
you are reaching out and respondingbecause you have to or because you
actually feel like you're ready for it and
No, I feel like, I feel like there'sa, there's a desire to, like, there was
(23:01):
no desire to whatsoever, so I'm still,I mean, I'm not, it's not perfect.
I'll only respond to certain thingsand certain people where I feel safe.
Um.
But you know, I wouldn'tdo any of that before.
So I'm certainly responding to messages.
I'm, you know, I'm making planswith people that I feel safe and
comfortable with, and I guessI'm letting myself be seen.
(23:24):
And letting myself be seen, eventhe imperfect version of myself,
which I wasn't doing before.
Okay.
I was holding that all togetherand presenting someone that seemed
on top of it and seemed, you know,capable, but wasn't, you know,
internally or outside of that space.
So now I'm a little bit more willing tolet myself be seen in that imperfect way.
(23:50):
Um,
Yeah, I mean, here youare doing this, right?
Like-
Yes, yes.
Yeah, I would, I wouldn'thave thought that before.
So the other thing, yeah, the otherthing is I'm, I'm really finding I'm
ruminating less, you know, I'm ru- I, Iused to ruminate a lot in that closet.
Um, and I'm finding I'm resting more.
So I know that sounds funnybecause in that shutdown state,
(24:10):
that feels like all you're doing.
But in that shutdown state, it wasa constant dialogue in my head.
Um, and now there's a morerestful state, which I like.
Um, and you know, not going aroundand around and churning things over,
which was just really difficult.
Um, i'm starting to find one of thebig things for me was I stop, stop
(24:32):
listening to music and I'm findingmyself listening to music again.
And, you know, even thatmusic was too overwhelming.
It was too much.
And I'd always found, um, myselflistening to music as a way of,
you know, um, yeah, feeling good.
But I shut that down and shut that out.
So I'm starting to put that in.
I'm my dark closet.
(24:53):
That I spoke about.
So I'm beginning to let sunlightback into my space, which I felt
like a vampire for a while there.
I, I just didn't want it.
I didn't want music.
I didn't want light.
I didn't want anything, nothing.
There was nothing, you know, and evenI. I've started, there's something
yesterday I've known, I'm on abit of a sourdough kick right now.
I'm starting to cook forpleasure, you know, not just
(25:15):
for survival, but for pleasure.
And I, I'm enjoying it.
You know, I'm, I'm enjoying puttingthat energy, you know, or finding
the energy a and b, putting itinto, you know, creating something
and being mindful about something.
And yeah, while I'm cookingthat sourdough, I'm, yeah,
I'm, I'm there in that moment.
It's sticky.
(25:35):
It's, you know, it's.
Yeah, I'm out of the closet andI'm in the kitchen and it's fun.
So it's not just because Ineed to eat, because I need
to survive, but I need to eat.
And prior to that, I'd lost ahell of a lot of weight, um, in
my shutdown space, like a lot.
And, um, because I didn't want to eat andI didn't, there was no pleasure in eating.
(25:58):
I didn't.
I didn't wanna prepare anythingand I didn't need to eat.
I wasn't doing anything.
So I, yeah, I lost a lot of weightand people were commenting on that.
So I know it sounds funny, the cookingfor pleasure, but now I'm doing that
and I'm enjoying what I'm eating.
It's, it's a lot of bread rightnow, but I've, you know, gained
that weight back and I'm feelingbetter about where I am physically.
(26:22):
You've already shared with us a wholebunch of examples of getting unstuck
and what that's led to, but is thereone concrete example for you that
really sticks out to you that says,I'm definitely unstuck or much less
stuck than I was not that long ago?
I can think of a moment that I guess,um, probably relates to my work, um,
(26:42):
my, my professional life and I thinksomething that I'd avoided for, for quite
some time and, and there was a momentwhere I had to initiate a difficult.
But honest conversation with someonethat was professionally close to me.
Um, and you know, I guess whileI was doing that, I noticed that
my heart was pounding, you know?
And I was like, Ooh, I noticedthose physical body cues.
(27:04):
But I stayed in that moment.
You know, I noticed that they were thereand I understood why they were there.
I validated them, youknow, and normalized them.
And I was able to express what I neededto express, what I needed to express.
It was a conversation thatI had to have, and I didn't
collapse into shame afterwards.
That's the bit that I noticed, youknow, I didn't, didn't collapse
into that shame afterwards.
(27:25):
And I guess that night, instead ofdisassociating what I would normally,
which is what I would normally do, and,you know, shut down and find the closet,
I journaled about it, but I did it with.
Some compassion this time, youknow, for myself and the situation.
And I think that was the firsttime I really saw myself choosing
connection over withdrawal, um,which I had actively been doing for,
(27:50):
for those two to three years prior.
So it, it wasn't easy, but it wascertainly, I think, a breakthrough
or a turning point, whatever youkind of wanna call it, of moving
out of that really stuck place.
That's a great example.
What- the compassion that you broughtto the journaling, was it forced or
was it already there because of allthe safety practices you've been doing?
(28:11):
I think a bit of both.
I think I had to bereally mindful about it.
I had to tell myself, you know, I wasdoing the, a bit of the AWE stuff-
Real quick interlude.
When she says the AWE stuff,she's referring to a process
from one of the courses.
It's called the AWE method.
AWE.
A stands for Anchored Awareness.
W is Witness, and E is Experience.
(28:32):
This teaches people how to deeplyconnect with their emotions.
I think I had to bereally mindful about it.
I had to tell myself, you know, I wasdoing the, a bit of the AWE stuff- um, and
being, you know, I put it at the top of myjournal sometimes as a bit of a reminder.
I think I once mentioned to you, I putit on my, I write it on my, on my hands
sometimes to remind myself, and that's,it's made a little bit of a trigger to,
(28:54):
to be, you know, aware and, um, yeah.
So there was a little bit of both.
The compassion was there, I think,but I, I mindfully wrote about
it in a compassionate way insteadof the way- well, I wouldn't have
written before anyway, so it wasjust the way that I'd expressed it.
You mentioned I want to comeback to go into the closet less.
(29:15):
Are you still going intothe closet when you need to?
No, no, I haven't, like, I haven't, likeI said, when I went back now, I have
not been in there a while for a while.
I'm still, you know, I still findcomfort in, um, some days is still
too bright and too loud, I supposefor me, depending on how I'm feeling.
Um.
(29:35):
But yeah, that six to seven consistencymeans that I am opening the curtains
more and I'm out of the, out of thatspace a bit more, and I can let the light
in and put some music on and be movingaround a bit more than what I used to.
I probably, another thing that I didin my toolkit, uh, I didn't mention
(29:56):
before, was that daily practice.
I, I found a, whew, itwas hard to begin with.
It was a, a micro thing,a five minute practice.
I started with five minutes andwent to 10 and up to 15 of Tai Chi
on YouTube 'cause I didn't want togo out and do a class with people.
So I, I found myself out of the closetand just doing a YouTube thing of a
(30:17):
Tai chi, which is that gentle movement.
And people kept saying to me, 'causeI was such a big, you know, physical
person, you know, you need to go fora run or you need to swim, or you
need to go for a ride, or whatever.
And oh, the thought of that wasso, so far from where I was.
I couldn't, you know, I didn't, wouldn'twanna come out of the closet, but
that little five minute, gentle fiveminute movement was yeah, something
(30:42):
that I really came to rely on.
So, yeah, that was really,
right?
Like it's, it's
yeah.
it's intentional.
It's not too much andit's a small practice.
That's perfect.
For someone who is, who is currentlyin the shoes that you were in
about six months ago, what isone piece of specific, direct,
(31:03):
practical, actionable advice that you
Yeah.
I think start with abody, not with your story.
And not to try and think your wayout of it, which is what I was doing.
So instead, find one small thing thatmakes you feel safe or more pleasant.
You know, I think we'd spokenabout at times, like a soft
blanket, a warm cup of tea.
(31:25):
You had that one.
And that's something that I've clung tothat warm cup of tea, just feeling it.
Um, pets, you know, the five minutes withmy pet, um, and letting my nervous system.
Have that moment, or letting your nervoussystem have that moment, and then from
there you can build capacity to feel more.
So I always looked at it as safetyis the soil and healing is the plant.
(31:48):
So, you know, having that safety,being able to ground myself in the
soil, um, and then the healing camefrom that growth from that space.
So letting, letting my bodystarting with the body.
Super easy, use senses.
Yeah.
Small moment,
Yeah.
not 30 minutes, not anhour of meditation, but
No.
(32:09):
maybe of
Yeah,
It's pretty
yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
Okay.
Progress is not alwayspermanent without the effort.
Um, obviously you've put theeffort in, you still are,
doesn't sound like you're done.
I don't think we're ever done.
But you're, um, still doing it.
How you actively maintaining your yourgrowth and the, uh, progress you've made?
(32:34):
What are you doing day in, day out to makesure you don't step back to a three or
four or five on the safety scale, maybe?
Hmm.
So I think I've, I've kind of mentionedbefore, I've, I've got my daily,
uh, my daily rituals that remindme that my nervous system is safe.
So that morning movement in the Tai Chiclass, that's the time in nature that
(32:56):
I mindfully and, you know, ensure thatI do the gratitude journaling or the
compassion journaling I'm calling it.
Um, also checking in regularly with thetherapist that I spoke about before.
Um, as a bit of a, a stop gap,um, avoiding over consuming that
triggering content for myself.
So making sure I'm balancing all of that.
(33:18):
Um, I guess most importantly, I treatany of those setbacks before, um, I was
treating them as like a big setback.
Now I see them as signals, not failures.
Um, so they're just a, a bit ofa. Yeah, A signal, not a failure.
And I return that, that,that forces well forces me.
That's my trigger then to return back tomy toolkit with kindness and compassion
(33:42):
and remembering that maintenance is ofthe, of this journey that we are talking
about now, it's part of that healing,that soil and, but going back to that
space is part of that healing and it'snot really proof that I've failed.
It's just part of the healing journey.
So none of what you're doing isoverwhelming, hugely demanding.
It sounds like it's just stuffthat you recognize feels good and
(34:05):
is manageable, involves others.
Got a little bit of nature in there,rituals, like it's pretty darn
practical things that you're doing.
Nothing
Yeah.
Nope.
Nope.
I'm super curious, if you don'tmind me adding, adding then- did you
utilize, uh, anything with your somatictherapist, maybe, or, or just in your
(34:26):
learning, sort of parts work or shadowstuff or ego stuff or any of those
other psychological abstract ideas?
Did they, did those comeinto play at all for you?
I.
Not really.
Not really.
Um, I guess it was, I've just beenprobably single focused on, so what,
what I'm doing here and I'm findinggood ground, so I don't, yeah.
(34:49):
I haven't wanted to, well, my mind'snot been in a space where I can kind
of manage anything extra anyway, butI feel like this is giving me so much
relief and so much progress and somuch, um, yeah inspiration that I,
I just- doing that daily practice.
I just don't wanna messwith it at this point.
It's giving me that two to three to,you know, going to six to seven and I
(35:12):
can exist- I can exist at six to seven.
Um, yeah.
And, and function.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I know I, I still feel abit, I guess, you know, it's early days.
I still feel a bit like itcould all be taken away from me.
There's a little bit of fear andapprehension there, and I think
that's just building, you know,um, keep that the daily practice.
(35:34):
You know, keeping that daily practice,so I know I can come back to it.
That's, that's something that I can trust.
Um, but it's working, so I can't see thepoint in incorporating too much more.
Maybe down the track, I don't know.
But while this is working,I'm happy to stay with it.
For sure.
Yeah.
Okay.
Anything else you want to add in that?
I mean, wow, what a story and I, Ithink from personally, before you
(35:57):
add in anything else, if you want tohearing relentless dedicated practice
and none of it sounded overwhelming.
None of it sounded like you weretrying to take on the world.
It all sounded very practical.
Small things.
Yeah, and it was, it was exactly that.
The, the thought of doing, likeI said, even opening a curtain or
(36:18):
listening to music was overwhelming.
So, you know, the thought of what myfriends were saying, just go for a run
or come out in the boat for the day.
I was like, whew, no thank you.
But that small little one thing andI, it honestly did start with things
like having that cup of tea and reallybeing mindful or watching the leaves
in the trees or, yeah, just reallysmall stuff, those micro moments.
(36:39):
So I really, really, um, yeah,beginning things and I'm, I'm building.
But it wasn't hard.
It really wasn't hard.
It really wasn't hard.
I mean, you can literally start inthe closet if you really want to.
Um, I, I wouldn't suggestit, I wouldn't promote that.
But you could.
Yeah.
I still smile when, yeah.
(37:00):
I still smile when I go to thecloset though, like the closet.
It's a space for me.
It's, I don't see it asa punishment, you know?
It was a safe space forme for a little while.
It gave me sanctuary.
So I'm not too hard on it and I'm nottoo hard on myself for using that.
It, it got me through, but it's a placethat I'm happy to go into now and hang
up my clothes as opposed to existing.
(37:20):
So, yeah.
And you know, there was a lotof times that I'd listen to
your podcast in the closet.
So, you know, I would, I would laythere and I would just listen and, uh,
there was not a lot of other sensorythings going on, so the focus was
just your voice a lot of the time.
So it was a beginning.
Um, thank, I'm honored to havejoined you in the closet there.
Thank you for that.
(37:41):
The other messages, I'm glad thatyou, you found the path that you
did and, and here you are, like, I'mso happy for you you're sharing it.
Thank you for that again, butthis is super weird, right?
What we do is fundamentallydifferent, I think, than like
what your friends tell you.
Well just do this instead.
Like, I'm not in, inour community, we don't.
for making our feelings go away.
(38:03):
We're not trying to fightthem or banish them.
saying like, let's compassionatelybe with them and feel them.
How do you, how do you, that's aforeign idea, I think, to people.
So I don't know.
Do you have any thoughts on that?
Maybe is I, I don't know.
What, where does that, where doesthat take you in your mind like that?
I'm curious.
Like you said, like the being ableto banish 'em, they were such a
(38:26):
big part of me, those feelings,I couldn't just banish 'em.
They were overwhelming.
So I think there was part of our, youknow, when we're in our community, one
of the things that we spoke about oncewas having those feelings alongside you.
And doing some of those,those practices anyway.
So visualizing them for me, I visualizethem as a, as something, you know, and I
put them in my, I think, I don't know ifwe'd spoken about the different ways of
(38:46):
doing that, but I put them in my pocket.
Real quick sidebar, what she's referringto when she says visualizing and the
whole pocket thing, she's referring to apractice called permitting at level one.
Permitting at level one, uh, teacheshow to use your imagination or
imagery in order to permit an emotionthat is otherwise too much like,
(39:08):
uh, pressure or guilt or whatever.
So we use our imagination andthen invite it to be with us
as we also do something else.
This is a level one easier, um,compared to level two, which has
a much deeper felt sense, somaticexperience of these emotions.
but I put them in my pocket.
So that meant that I didn'thave to discard them.
(39:30):
I didn't have to banish them, Ididn't have to push them away.
They were still with me and they wereallowed to be with me, but I could
still do the other stuff as well.
And that felt better.
That felt safer for me 'cause I wasn't,you know, I was scared about banishing
them all together 'cause what, whowas I if that, if that all went away?
And I was already feeling numb anddisconnected, so it was a scary thing
(39:54):
to think that I, I wasn't gonna havethat last little bit of feeling.
So I think being able to put it in mypocket and stay with it so it didn't
go away and, and function and continuein those daily practices was good.
It was good.
It was where I was able to do thatand, um, yeah, accept, and like I
said before, not think through it.
(40:15):
You know, I, I stopped thinkingand I started just going, okay, I'm
just gonna put this in my pocket.
It doesn't have to go away.
It doesn't have to beanywhere besides with me.
It's okay for it to be with me, um,but I'm still gonna go and sit in
nature, or I'm still gonna go and havethat cup of tea and be mindful, so
I start treating it like the enemy.
Yeah.
(40:36):
Stop treating it like the enemy do.
And you've,
Yeah.
hearing that you also got closer,not just in your pocket, but like you
actually got closer to or are feeling it.
Directly as well.
Not just
hmm.
visualization, that's one skill, butyou've gone to the next level, which is
feeling it compassionately from safety
Hmm.
and mindfully connecting with it.
Hmm.
Hmm.
Yes.
Yeah, that was the key-from safety, I think.
(40:58):
And that was, it was timing a lot ofit, but a mindful timing, you know,
being understood that, you know, beforeit would, sometimes that feeling would
ambush me or hijack me, you know?
And um, and it would come at times thatI wasn't wanting it to come, and then I
would feel dysregulated and, you know,go down back into that shutdown state.
But if I'm mindfully and, you know,with choice, um and volition, I
(41:23):
suppose, put myself in a place whereI knew I was safe and then allowed
myself to, to go to that feeling space.
It, it felt more manageable.
Definitely.
Thanks so much for joiningme here on Stuck, Not Broken,
and thank you again, Eva.
Dear listener, I hope thisepisode has helped you realize
that unstuck is not easy, but itcan be practical and methodical.
(41:48):
Heck yes, it takesdedication just like Eva's.
But if you don't have that muchmotivation right now, that's okay.
You do have enough motivation to searchfor this topic and to watch this video
in particular all the way to the end.
You obviously have some level ofmotivation, so let's use that.
So I invite you to pick one thing toaccomplish right now, to start or continue
(42:15):
down your unstuck path . I know thereare tons of options and you don't know
where to begin, so make it super simpleby mindfully connecting with one of your
senses for 30 seconds or less, that'sfine too, or longer, that's fine, too.
Use one sense.
And bring as much of your full attentionto the experience of it that you can
(42:39):
notice how using that one sense affectsyour breathing and your muscle tension.
And if you can do that,then repeat it tomorrow.
This is how you start.
Connect with the environment, using yoursenses for 30 seconds or less or more,
but aim for something short and sweet.
Eva, you are absolutely killing it.
(43:01):
Keep going.
Thank you again so much for sharingyour success and I cannot wait to
hear about what else opens up for you.
Dear listener, if you would like to jointhe Untucking Academy, you can learn
more through the link in the description.
It is JustinLMFT.com/UnstuckingAcademy.
(43:22):
In the Academy, you can connectwith amazing people like Eva.
You can get, uh, super simple steps tohelp build safety and you can learn how to
get unstuck so you can finally live withmore calm, confidence, and connection.
Thank you once again for joining me.
Bye.
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