Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You learned the Polyvagal Theory.
Now what?
How do you apply this knowledgeto your everyday life?
What the heck do you do with it?
I'm sharing five tips toanswer that one question.
This episode in particular is thefourth in the five part series.
This tip focuses on understandingand identifying neuroception.
(00:21):
I wanted this to be a short episode,but we have a lot to get into.
Neuroception is commonly misunderstood,so we really gotta spend a lot of
time first on clearly understandingwhat it is, and then we apply the idea
to your life in particular in a veryeasy, practical, and approachable way.
(00:41):
Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.
I'm a therapist and coach who helpsyou live more calmly, confidently, and
connected without psychobabble or woo woo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
This podcast is of course nottherapy, nor is it intended to
be a replacement for therapy.
(01:02):
The first thing to get intois what neuroception is.
We need to understand its top downto then recognize it bottom up in the
simplest but most accurate possible termsI could muster- Neuroception is your
body's way of detecting safety or danger.
(01:22):
Super simple definition, butit's of course more complex.
So we'll add to the super simpleversion with this- Neuroception
is your body's way of detectingsafety or danger or life threat.
It does get more complex, but let'sspend a little bit of time here.
(01:42):
When you neurop safety, your bodyaccesses its ventral vagal safety state.
When you neurocept danger,your body turns off the safety
activation resulting in increasedsympathetic flight fight activation.
And if it detects a life threat, then thedorsal vagal shutdown system kicks in.
(02:05):
That is a very one dimensional,cartoony, simple way of putting things.
But we're starting off simple.
Now let's make it a bit more complex.
By extending our definition ofneuroception a bit more- Neuroception
is your body's way of detecting safetyor danger or life threat before your
conscious mind is aware of these things.
(02:29):
Neuroception is not a conscious process.
You're not aware of itwhile it's happening.
You're only aware ofit after it's happened.
You notice the effects ofneuroception, not neuroception itself.
We can extend our definitiona smidge more by inserting
something, uh, right in the middle.
(02:51):
Ready for it?
Neuroception is your body's wayof detecting safety or danger or
life threat from the internal orexternal world before your conscious
mind is aware of these things.
Neuroception responds to morethan the external world, like
the loud boom of thunder above.
(03:12):
It also responds to the internalworld, like if you're chronically ill.
Neuroception is not conscious thought.
It's not consciously directed.
It's a biological processhappening in the brainstem.
The brainstem is where top downand bottom up communication meet.
(03:35):
Your body sends signals of safety ordanger up to the brainstem and your
higher brain structures send signals ofsafety or danger down to the brainstem.
The body and brain meet and discusssafety and danger at the brainstem.
So let's, let's use a metaphor.
(03:56):
It's gonna make it silly, buthopefully more understandable.
Think of your body and the restof your brain as people, and
your brainstem is a person too.
So we have three people.
The brainstem is thedecision maker of the group.
The brain and the body come to thedecision maker and give it their data.
(04:16):
The brain says, "This person whosethoughts I have, they're a real idiot.
They're going to get fired soon.
And everyone in the office talks aboutthem behind their back." The brain
tells this to the brainstem and thebrain stem says, "That's not good.
Um, sounds like danger.
So we'll keep things on high alert.
(04:38):
So, brain, I need you to focusintently on maybe getting fired and
how maybe nobody likes this person.
All of your energy, brain, needs togo and focus on these dangers." And
the brain would say, "But we have a,a thing on Saturday and I need to get
(04:59):
to the kids, the kids to the doctor-"and the brainstem says, "Nope, just
focus on the most immediate danger.
All systems need toprioritize these dangers."
Meanwhile, the body's theretoo and has a message for the
brainstem, the decision maker.
The body says, "Things are pretty tensedown here. I'm super tight in the gut
(05:22):
area and I can't get enough air intomy chest." So the brainstem says, OMG.
Things are worse than I thought.
Sounds like a ton of dangers.
Okay, body.
Let's also stay on highalert- keep tense, keep ready.
Focus all energies on maintaininghypervigilant readiness.
(05:45):
If there's anything off,let me know immediately.
If somebody at work has a slightlytense voice, prioritize that,
I'll let the brain know and it'llput a response into action."
And so, uh, yeah, things stay this way,potentially indefinitely, sorry to say.
Well, that's not entirely true.
(06:05):
It's not indefinite.
But if you are in a traumatized state,it is chronic that defensiveness
and potentially indefinite,um, if nothing else changes.
The good news is, is that the body'salso sending other signals to the
brainstem, like the smell of food on theway to work, or the sites of pink cherry
(06:27):
blossoms on a tree outside a window.
And the brain can remembermoments of connection.
These messages are also sent tothe brainstem decision maker too.
The point is that the brainstem iswhere all the polyvagal state shifting
takes place, and it shifts basedon the cues that it receives from
(06:50):
the body and the rest of the brain.
That's the basics of neuroception.
Let's create a fictional scenario to helpbring this to light a little bit more.
It is Sarah's first week at her new joband she's attending, um, a team meeting.
She arrives a few minutes before it startswanting to make a good impression on
(07:10):
her, her colleagues, and the higher ups.
She says to herself, "You got this,Sarah." She opens the door to the
conference room and lifts her legto take a step in before her foot can
land, though, uh, for that first step,her eyes take in the harsh brightness
(07:31):
of the fluorescent bulbs above.
Her ears take in the dull hum andthe chatter of her colleagues.
Her nose picks up the slightscent of disinfectant.
Her eyes take in the view ofthe city from the 50th floor.
Her eyes also pick up the faces ofher colleagues facing away from her
(07:52):
or the back of their heads, I guess.
A subtle tension grips her shouldersand her breathing becomes more
shallow, uh, into her chest.
Her foot finally falls for thatfirst step into the conference room.
The second foot follows andher legs tense as she stands
(08:13):
stoically still like a statue, hereyes widening to scan the room.
A thought pierces her mind likea lightning bolt, "This is too
much for me. I am not readyfor this. And they all know."
Okay, dear listener, um, how isor is Sarah neurocepting danger?
Obviously.
Yeah, right.
She enters into a freeze state basedon what she's picking up in the room.
(08:36):
The onset of the freeze israpid and she has no idea why.
To her it's because of imposter syndrome.
That's what she would say to herself.
She thinks people are judging her butreally it's because she entered the room
with some anxiety already, and then theroom itself and the people within it
provided her brainstem with numerous tinysensory danger cues like the height of the
(09:01):
room overlooking the city, the lighting,the voices, the faces of her colleagues,
and the uh, the scent in the room.
All of these are danger.
They're not dangerous, butthe cue danger in her body.
She is unaware of all of thesesensory pieces at a conscious level,
but her brainstem picked up on everysingle one of them and then shifted
(09:23):
the body into a life threat state.
That's what the freeze was.
Let's take this, uh, story a step further.
Sarah is standing there frozenin place with her eyes wide.
Unsure what to do, uh, whereto sit or who to talk to.
Emotionally, she feels, ofcourse, anxious and insecure.
(09:45):
One of the colleagues looks over toher and smiles, "Hey, Sarah, right?"
She stutters out something affirmingthat, yes, she is indeed Sarah.
" Welcome!" The colleague says. I don'tknow if Jerry prepped you for this, but
this is a multidisciplinary team meetingand we like to sit with people we usually
(10:07):
don't work with. People in differentteams get to know each other this way."
Sarah feels a warmth spread all over her.
She takes a breath in, smilesat her colleague and says,
okay, great, and gets cut off.
Another colleague across the roomshouts to Sarah in a playful tone.
"Come over here. We have a spot. I need topick your brain about something anyhow!"
(10:31):
Sarah smiles a bigger smile andconfidently walks over to sit.
All right, so now what happened?
She neurocepted, uh,safety this time, right?
The smile from her coworker, gainingclarity on the group norms at the
top down, and the invitation fromher other coworker, along with
(10:53):
that coworkers, the other coworkerswelcoming and excited vocal tone.
She accurately neuro stepssafety and shifts state out of
freeze or out of immobility andinto a mobilized safety state.
So now you understandneuroception accurately.
(11:14):
Let's now take the next stepand learn how to identify it.
You can probably see that neuroceptionis not something we directly experience.
I mean the moment of neuroception,the biological communication
from brainstem to brain and body.
Instead, we can directly experiencethe effects of neuroception.
(11:38):
This is a subtle but important difference.
Sarah didn't notice the neuroceptionof danger before her first step
landed in the conference room.
She didn't even notice the effects likeshallow breathing and the tent shoulders.
She was too far in defensive activation.
But if she had enough safety inher system and if she was mindful
(12:00):
enough, she would've noticedthe breath and the tension.
The breath and tension are theeffects of neuroception, the,
the outcome of neuroception.
These are the potentiallyconscious results of neuroception.
We identify neuroception throughits effects, through its outcomes.
(12:23):
One problem with this is thatneuroception affects so many
different variables of you.
When you shift into defense,it affects your thoughts, your
emotions, your sensations, yourimpulses, and your behaviors as well.
Another problem is that you may havelittle to no connection with yourself.
Everything from the neck downmight be a stranger to you.
(12:46):
So we need to start much smaller.
We don't have to notice everything.
We get really noticethings on a smaller level.
I have three questions that I want youto ask yourself to identify neuroception.
I'll also clarify the threequestions so they make more sense.
Write these down.
You're gonna be using these a lot.
Number one, how is my breathing?
(13:06):
Is it more or less shallow?
Is it in my chest or my belly?
Are my shoulders moving?
Is it comfortable or not?
Number two, how is my muscle tension?
Am I tense or relaxed?
Where do I feel tension or relaxation?
Is it all over or isit in a specific spot?
And number three, am I moreor less likely to smile?
(13:28):
This one I think ispretty straightforward.
And by the way, if you are more,more likely to smile, then do so.
Let yourself smile.
Those are your three key questionsto identify neuroception.
You're gonna look for the effects ofneuroception in these three key areas.
Let's get a little morespecific though, because it's
(13:49):
time to take your first steps.
You are going to look for the effectsof neuroception in these three areas in
response to sensory inputs, in particular.
When noticing come from asmuch curiosity as you can.
Not evaluation.
This isn't about, uh, goodor bad, right or wrong.
(14:09):
It's just noticing what is, noticingwhat is truthful about our experiences.
You are gonna use your senses tonotice neuroception, and you're
going to do so proactively.
For now, don't wait for your sensesto pick something up and for your
body to shift and then notice it.
That's reactive.
I want you to be proactive.
(14:32):
I invite you to choose an experience todaythat engages just one of your senses.
Not all of them, just one.
I want you to mindfully experiencethe taste, sight, feel, smell
or the sound of something.
And then notice howthat impacts your body.
Take in the sensory input and thenask yourself those three questions.
(14:56):
So how do you do this?
I bet you have a candle in your home.
Smell it mindfully and askyourself those three questions.
I bet you're gonna be going to Targetor Walmart today, or, or some store.
Go to the candle aisle andsmell one of the candles there.
You're probably gonna get a coffee today.
(15:19):
Taste it and answer those three questions.
Real easy.
These are things thatyou would do anyways.
Focus though on proactively experiencingthe effects of neuroception.
As this becomes easier, then noticehow your body reacts to sensory
inputs that you don't expect.
If you can't catch it in the momentlike Sarah did not catch it in the
(15:40):
story, then reflect back on thosemoments at the end of the day.
You are wondering why this is importantand how it helps, uh, especially
'cause you wanna get unstuck.
Noticing the effects of neuroception helpsbuild self-awareness without judgment.
That's huge.
If you're gonna continue down theunstuck path that, that's, seriously,
this is a huge component of it.
(16:01):
Further down the unstucking road,you'll need to build your ability
to notice how your body is, whatit wants, and how it reacts.
This self-awareness you build now tellsyou what cue safety and what cues defense.
In the Unstuck Academy, you willlearn what cues safety in your
body, but you need to feel it.
(16:23):
You'll also learn how to access andfeel mindfully defensive activation,
and again- this requires a lot ofnonjudgmental connection with yourself.
But you're not there yet.
That is further down the road.
You've just learned thePolyvagal theory and you're
trying to put things into place.
But as you progress down theunstuck road, those other pieces
(16:45):
will become way more important.
Over time, as you become more comfortablewith noticing how your body responds,
you'll begin to understand what it wants.
Our bodies are compelled toself-regulate, to get unstuck from
defense and access more safety.
But to get there, we needto listen to what it needs.
(17:07):
We need to consciously listento what our body needs.
When it needs to squeeze torelease stuck fight activation.
We need to listen and act on it when itneeds to hug another and receive warmth
and comfort, we need to listen to it.
When it needs to collapse face first onthe bed and breathe in silence, recovering
(17:27):
from the day we need to listen to it.
This simple, proactive sensoryneuroception tip that I gave
you with the three questions isa small step in that direction.
Small but sustainable and smallbut significant, especially
if you're just starting.
Using this simple, proactive sensoryneuroception tip is also useful
(17:52):
because it puts you in the driver'sseat, it puts you in control.
You decide what sensory input youuse and when, and you decide to look
inward and notice your body's reaction.
I will bet you are typically reactive.
You live reactively.
You react to things.
(18:13):
You react to the state of your body.
You try to numb what it's goingthrough or distract yourself.
What I'm suggesting is the opposite.
It is proactive and helps you connect,not numb or distract, but directly connect
with your body in the present moment.
(18:34):
Thanks so much for joiningme on Stuck Not Broken.
I hope this episode has helpedyou understand neuroception
deeper and more accurately.
And I hope you have your nextstep- proactively connect
with your senses or one sense.
And notice how your bodyresponds to what it neurocepts.
(18:56):
You got this.
Bye.