June 17, 2025 • 17 mins
Discover why trying to force a change in your polyvagal state might be holding you back from true self-regulation. In this episode, therapist and coach Justin Sunseri challenges the common advice around prescriptive breathing techniques and invites you to connect with your body’s natural rhythms instead. Through insights from a live Q&A, learn how mindful awareness and listening to your body can lead to genuine calm, balance, and lasting change—without counting breaths or forcing a state shift.
Timestamps:
0:00 – Introduction to Inner Balance
0:39 – The Power of Natural Breathing
2:02 – Critique of Prescriptive Breathing
3:53 – Connecting with Your Body’s Needs
5:03 – The Body’s Natural Self-Regulation
11:05 – Creating Optimal Conditions for Self-Regulation
15:02 – Final Thoughts and Invitation
Resources:
🔸 Free resources and course in the Members Center - https://www.justinlmft.com/members
🔸 Join the Unstucking Academy - https://www.stucknotbroken.com/unstuckingacademy
🔸 Polyvagal Intro webpage - https://www.justinlmft.com/polyvagalintro
🔸 Stuck Not Broken book series - https://www.justinlmft.com/books
🔸 Polyvagal 101 audio series - https://player.captivate.fm/collection/cce134e7-1550-4d33-8e56-738d344c63b0
Crisis resources:
- National Suicide Prevention Hotline - 1 (800) 273-8255
- National Domestic Violence Hotline -1 (800) 799-7233
- LGBT Trevor Project Lifeline - 1 (866) 488-7386
- National Sexual Assault Hotline - 1 (800) 656-4673
- Crisis Text Line - Text “HOME” to 741741
- Call 911 for emergency
This and other content produced by Justin Sunseri (“JustinLMFT”) (i.e; podcast, YouTube, Instagram, etc.) is not therapy, not intended to be therapy or be a replacement for therapy. Nothing in this creates or indicates a therapeutic relationship. Please consult with your therapist or seek for one in your area if you are experiencing mental health symptoms. Nothing should be construed to be specific life advice; it is for educational and entertainment purposes only.
Justin Sunseri is a Licensed Marriage & Family Therapist registered in the State of California (#99147).
Don't forget to subscribe to the podcast! When you do, you will immediately get the next episode as soon as it's available. What's better than having the next episode of SNB ready and waiting for you? (Nothing, that's what.)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
We all search for that senseof inner balance, don't we?
(00:03):
And when it comes to finding calmor managing stress, our breath
can be the first thing we turn to,although many of us, maybe even
you are unaware of our breathing.
You probably became aware ofit now as I'm talking about it.
You might have heard the advice- breathein to energize, breathe out to relax,
or perhaps even followed a prescribedbreathing method, like box breathing or
(00:30):
a certain amount of seconds in and out,uh, balloon breathing, color breathing,
I think, and whatever else is out there.
And that's, that's fine.
But what if the most effective pathto feeling settled and connecting with
yourself in the present moment isn'tabout imposing a rhythm, but tuning into
the one that your body naturally holds.
(00:52):
In this episode, weexplore this very idea.
I want to convince you of two things.
Number one, you'll shift your polyvagalstate naturally and compassionately
through connecting with the wayyour body already wants to breathe.
And I also want to convinceyou that if you don't, you're
fundamentally rejecting your body.
(01:12):
It's needs and actual longlasting self-regulation.
Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.
I'm a therapist and coach whowants to help you live more
calmly, confidently, and connectedwithout psychobabble or woowoo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
This podcast is of course not therapy,nor is it intended to replace therapy.
(01:33):
What you're gonna listen to is aclip from a live q and a that I
hold within the Unstuck Academy.
I've removed as much of the students',uh, voices as I can, and I've
replaced them with ai, uh, voices.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the in breathstimulates the sympathetic and the out
breath stimulates the parasympathetic?
(01:53):
So, obviously, in the simplestform, you breathe in for two and
out for four; or you breathe in forthree and you breathe out for six?
I, I personally don't like the prescribedbreathing, the counting the in for
two out for two or four or whatever.
I don't care for that.
Um, I would much prefer people mindfullyconnect with their breath as it is.
(02:18):
There is value to extending your exhale.
I like that, but I don't, I personallydon't recommend counting or having
it be for a certain amount of time.
I'd rather people focus on comfort level.
Um, versus time.
Actually, I just met with someoneright before this, and she was
doing the prescribed breathing.
(02:39):
She was counting, and,you know, that's fine.
But I told her, well, why don't you justex extend your exhale, but just, you
know, don't count and don't count out.
Just focus more on comfort.
She tried that and she'slike, I liked it a lot more.
Okay.
I felt like I got more out of it.
Just, just feeling it and being,and you know, breathing out.
(02:59):
She said, I felt likeI got more out of it.
It was, I was more focused.
I was more mindful because otherwiseyou're counting and that's not,
I think that's counterintuitiveto the mindfulness piece of it.
I know there's a lot of prescriptivebreathing out there to relax.
Sometimes it's to like amp up, youknow, speed up your, or extend your
inhale and decrease your exhale.
(03:21):
It's just, to me, that's very artificial.
Um, in one of the courses thatI, the Stillness to Sympathetic-
in that course I talk aboutsomething called, uh, induction.
How do we mobilizing through induction,like forcing yourself to mobilize.
And that would be one of those ways isthrough prescribed breathing through,
(03:43):
um, longer inhales or more rapid inhales.
But I, I don't like that stuff.
I'd rather people feel connect with theirnatural state and their natural breath.
The only really prescribed breathingI'll give is mindfully maybe, maybe
take a deeper breath in once mindfully,if the body wants to, but you have
(04:04):
to connect with what the body wants.
Mindfully extend the exhale.
Maybe, you know, but not twoseconds in, four seconds.
Box box breathing, color breathing.
I'd rather we get out of ourheads and more connect with
what's happening bottom up.
I feel like I am fairly in touchwith my body and the present moment.
But if I can change my state throughinduction, that is something I am open to.
(04:25):
I'd rather not wallow in my shutdown.
Well, you said in orderto change my state.
Why do you wanna change your state?
And what's the, so what what's the point?
Is it because I don't likeit and I wanna get rid of it?
If, and if that's the case, the wayI think and the way I'm teaching in
the coursework is you're fundamentallyrejecting the natural state of your body.
(04:47):
And if you're doing that, I don't thinknatural self-regulation can occur.
You can induce it.
You can force some level of shifting, butthat's not sustainable, I don't think.
And that's not a natural, mindful,compassionate connection with yourself.
What I would argue is that when we bringmindful connection to our breath from our
(05:08):
safety state, it will change naturally.
It will naturally,through self-regulation.
Your body knows more than your brain does.
So our brain might say, "Well, I don'tlike my state. I don't want to feel
this way," and I don't blame anybody.
Of course not.
I don't like, it doesn't feel goodto be in shutdown or what- right?
(05:28):
It doesn't feel good.
So our brain, our conscious mind issaying, "No, I feel this way. I don't want
to feel this way, so I'm gonna change mybreath or drink an energy drink or I don't
know, put some sort of time constrainton myself in order to induce mobility
or to induce, induce a, a state shift."So that's our conscious plan, right?
(05:51):
But our body is really justlike, "No, just feel me.
Pay attention to me andI'll take care of the rest.
I, I can self-regulate.
I just, I need you to stayin your safety state." Right?
I'm mixing up my personas here.
Your, the body's saying, "I, I, I justneed you to bring attention to what I'm
going through and I'll take care of therest." That, that's really the shift
that I think needs to take place asfar as how we think about these things.
(06:13):
Because what- path A, when we're changingour breath, or you know, putting all
these pressures on ourselves or whatever,that is fundamentally rejecting the
natural state of our body, which tome is the opposite of self-regulation.
Path B, which I'm laying out and try andteach, is let's truly connect with the
(06:35):
state of our body and see what happens.
And what's gonna happen isit's gonna self-regulate.
It has to.
That's, that's the natural compulsion ofevery living organism is self-regulation.
I think our consciousmind gets in the way.
So trauma means we'restuck in a defensive state.
Not completely, not a hundred percent.
Um, obviously, obviously, you know,more severe at times, but there's
(06:57):
always some level of access to allthese states at any given moment.
It's never a hundred percentin any specific moment.
So even though we might be in astuck defensive state, the body is
still compelled to self-regulate.
The, the natural compulsion.
It's, it's a homeostatic biological thing.
It has to self-regulate inorder to optimally function.
(07:18):
Okay?
The more that we can get outtathe way consciously and allow
that to happen, the better.
Even though we may be in a traumatizedstate, stuck in like shutdown,
maybe- the body still has a naturalcompulsion to self-regulate.
It wants to, it needs to, butwe do things like scroll on
our phone and we distract it.
(07:39):
We use drugs, we drink, we stay outlate at night, we overeat, we undereat,
and the body's like, just stop doingall that stuff so I can self-regulate.
So the sooner we can get closer tocutting out all that noise, then the
body can say, "fricking finally, thankyou," and it can do what it needs to do.
(08:00):
The problem is it's very uncomfortable.
It's not easy, it's uncomfortable, andit requires a lot of safety activation.
But once we can get those pieces inplace, the self-regulation will happen.
The coming out of defensiveactivation will happen.
I tend to do better with productivemeans of shifting state like through
induction versus the passive.
If it's true induction, like you'reforcing it, then that's, I don't think
(08:24):
it's sustainable and it inherentlyrejects the fundamental need of our body.
There's some level of fundamentallyrejecting, "I don't want this,
I don't want this experience, Idon't wanna feel it, I don't wanna
connect with it. I'm tired of it."
Okay.
So there's that.
And then you said, you dobetter with, um, productive.
(08:47):
So that's totally fine.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
That's great.
Love it.
Again, in my client work, my questionwould be, "Okay, well, what does
productive feel like? What is, what's thaturgency? What does that feel like?" Can
we connect mindfully with that insteadof acting on it and doing something to
feel differently, can we just pause andfeel that urgency or that pressure or
that antsiness or that, whatever that is.
(09:08):
That feeling of like, no, I gottado something- that could be one's
body coming out of shutdown.
And now there's some sympatheticactivation coming in the system.
So we wanna feel that.
We want to feel thatpow, you know, mindfully.
We want to connect with that andthen use it in a way that feels
good for the body versus doingsomething to feel differently.
(09:32):
That feeling of like, I wantto, I got, I gotta do something.
I wanna do somethinglike that's a gold mine.
There's a lot there to connect with if youmindfully, patiently feel into it and just
feel, where does that live in the body?
And all the coursework stuff.
Okay.
What would happen potentially is if youcan, generally, if you could feel that
(09:57):
that rising, um, activation, we'll call itmobilization energy, if you could feel it,
it may not tell you to change your breath.
It may tell you to pullor to push or to squeeze.
Or to run or sprint or do squats.
I don't know.
(10:18):
It may tell you like,"no, no, we need to move.
We need to use, let's use our muscles."Instead of breathing differently
or distracting ourselves with someproject or whatever, your body might
say, "No, this is what we need.
Please do this so we can releaseall this activation that's coming
up within us." But we won't knowthat until we stop rejecting how we
(10:40):
feel and we deeply feel how we feel.
Then the body will tellyou, tell us what it needs.
You'll probably find that as you gothrough the coursework, it's, it's
probably very different than the otherstuff you've, I don't know where,
where else you're taking in, but Ikeep hearing from people and from my
own little, you know, as I learn andread and whatnot, what, what we're
(11:02):
doing here is very different than Ithink what other people are getting.
Can you discuss how to create the optimalconditions for the body to self-regulate?
So the optimal conditions.
I want to, I want to compartment-I want to split something up here.
What I'm not talking about is how dowe force ourselves to feel better.
That that's not okay?
The optimal way of creatingconditions for self-regulation
(11:23):
depends on what state you're in.
That's why you gotta really connectwith the state that you're in.
So if I'm in shutdown, I will do betterwith, this is my, my body in particular.
But typically people in shutdownwant lower stimulation, quiet,
um, lights usually down or maybenatural lighting, sunlight.
(11:48):
Pieces like that in general.
Lower stimulation in general.
Now, someone in particular like me,I like the scent of, uh, coconut.
That does something for my body.
It just feels, it brings me to life.
It, it's exciting.
Whereas the next person might say, "Thatdoesn't speak to me at all." So there's
general conditions like lower stimulationfor shutdown and then more specific
(12:11):
things for each of us as individuals.
But we have to listento what our body needs.
We have to be mindful of,of the needs of our body.
So if we can create that around us,that creates the external conditions
now that helps us get closer to feelingwhat it's like to be in shutdown without
forcing it, without trying to change it.
It's just listening to what do Ineed, giving it to ourselves, and then
(12:35):
looking back away inward and saying,okay, well now how do I feel now?
What's happening now?
Okay, so for someone in flightfight, they're not gonna want
probably lower stimulation.
They want more stimulation.
They might want more insteadof a close closed um.
A cozy space, they're gonnawant probably more space.
They're probably gonna want naturalsunlight and, and being outside and
(12:58):
green and, uh, pathways and, youknow, things to walk down, space to
run, space to walk that for someonein flight fight, they want that.
They don't want a closed roomwith the lights turned down.
That doesn't speak to their system.
So to create this what theyneed, they would listen to
their body and then give it.
So when people that I meet withsay, "I wake up every morning, I
(13:21):
feel anxious." I say, "okay, wellwhat do you do with that anxiety?"
They say, "Well, I, I listen to ameditation to try and slow down, or
I'll drink some tea." And I'm like,"but that's not what your body wants.
Your body wants movement.
You, you wake up, ready to move.
Why are you doing the opposite?" "Well,'cause I'm supposed to feel better.
I'm, I'm supposed to feel safe.
I'm supposed to feel calm."
It's like, "okay, but you don't. Youdon't feel that way." So instead of
(13:43):
giving yourself the opposite, whathappens if you got up and the first
thing you did was go for a walk?
Actually, someone recently wakes up.
He, I just talked to him lastweek and he wakes up with a lot
of anxiety and, uh, I said, well,what if you, we were brainstorming.
I said, "what if you, when you'remaking your eggs in the morning, what
if you stood on your toes?" 'Causethat way it's like you're still flexing
(14:04):
your muscles and you're giving yourbody a little bit more movement.
But now you're, you cancook mindfully as well.
Or what if you stood up instead ofsitting down to eat your breakfast?
Um, what if you tensed and releasedyour, your leg muscles while you eat?
What if you listened to the needsof your body and used your anxiety,
your energy, your mobilization?
(14:24):
What if you used it instead of ignoring itor try to stuff it down and feel better?
That seems counterintuitive.
I would call that "anti-logical." That'sthe opposite of what we typically do.
I fundamentally believe that the typicalwisdom we bring to these things, the cul
cultural maybe way of doing things is,is wrong, is fundamentally wrong, and
(14:47):
probably has a lot to do with why there'ssuch rampant, um, mental health problems.
Hmm.
I really believe that we arefundamentally doing things wrong.
And instead, what if we just listenedto what our body needs and provided it?
Thank you so much for joiningme on Stuck Not Broken.
I've got a little challenge for you.
Try to trust the wisdomthat your body already has.
(15:10):
Maybe I didn't convince you from thisclip, and that's fine, but as you
practice mindfulness and meditation,can you set aside the pressure to
count, to measure, or to force yourbreathing to feel something other
than what you're already feeling?
Maybe today or, or in some quietmoment, you can pause and simply ask,
(15:33):
what does my body need right now?
And the answer mightnot be what you expect.
It might not be a longer exhale,but a, a gentle stretch, a moment
of stillness or a walk outside.
Maybe it's a bigger breath, maybe it'sa breath into the belly or the chest.
Just be as open as youcan to what the answer is.
(15:56):
And if you want to keep rejectingyour body's needs and force a certain
way of breathing, that is up to you.
I'll respect that.
I don't know what your favorite gurusare telling you, but when it comes to
unstucking and the way that we do thingshere, remember the goal isn't to fix.
You're not broken, but to connectand listen, and to allow your own
(16:17):
system to guide you back to itsnatural state of safety and balance.
If you want to join me and theother students inside the Unstucking
Academy for a live q and a or oneof our other live events, uh, you
may, I would love to see you there.
The Unstucking Academy has courses, ithas live events, it's got community.
(16:39):
All of which help you do the thingsthat we talked about in this episode.
All of all of these things help youconnect with yourself without judgment
in the present moment, without trying toforce yourself to feel a different way.
We work on self-regulating bytruly connecting to the present
moment and whatever it brings.
The Unstucking Academy is awonderful little community, and I
(17:00):
say little because, well, what is,but it's also small on purpose.
There's a limit of 150 people in theUnstucking Academy, so there's not
gonna be thousands of people pouringin and out and saying whatever comes
to their mind and sharing traumastories, we don't- we don't do that.
It's a much calmer, slower paced,smaller community, and I would
love for you to be a part of it.
(17:22):
Head over toJustinLMFT.com/unstuckacademy,
JustinLMFT.com/unstuckingacademyand you can learn more.
And I really hope that youare one of the 150 people.
We all search for that senseof inner balance, don't we?
(00:03):
And when it comes to finding calmor managing stress, our breath
can be the first thing we turn to,although many of us, maybe even
you are unaware of our breathing.
You probably became aware ofit now as I'm talking about it.
You might have heard the advice- breathein to energize, breathe out to relax,
or perhaps even followed a prescribedbreathing method, like box breathing or
(00:30):
a certain amount of seconds in and out,uh, balloon breathing, color breathing,
I think, and whatever else is out there.
And that's, that's fine.
But what if the most effective pathto feeling settled and connecting with
yourself in the present moment isn'tabout imposing a rhythm, but tuning into
the one that your body naturally holds.
(00:52):
In this episode, weexplore this very idea.
I want to convince you of two things.
Number one, you'll shift your polyvagalstate naturally and compassionately
through connecting with the wayyour body already wants to breathe.
And I also want to convinceyou that if you don't, you're
fundamentally rejecting your body.
(01:12):
It's needs and actual longlasting self-regulation.
Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.
I'm a therapist and coach whowants to help you live more
calmly, confidently, and connectedwithout psychobabble or woowoo.
Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.
This podcast is of course not therapy,nor is it intended to replace therapy.
(01:33):
What you're gonna listen to is aclip from a live q and a that I
hold within the Unstuck Academy.
I've removed as much of the students',uh, voices as I can, and I've
replaced them with ai, uh, voices.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the in breathstimulates the sympathetic and the out
breath stimulates the parasympathetic?
(01:53):
So, obviously, in the simplestform, you breathe in for two and
out for four; or you breathe in forthree and you breathe out for six?
I, I personally don't like the prescribedbreathing, the counting the in for
two out for two or four or whatever.
I don't care for that.
Um, I would much prefer people mindfullyconnect with their breath as it is.
(02:18):
There is value to extending your exhale.
I like that, but I don't, I personallydon't recommend counting or having
it be for a certain amount of time.
I'd rather people focus on comfort level.
Um, versus time.
Actually, I just met with someoneright before this, and she was
doing the prescribed breathing.
(02:39):
She was counting, and,you know, that's fine.
But I told her, well, why don't you justex extend your exhale, but just, you
know, don't count and don't count out.
Just focus more on comfort.
She tried that and she'slike, I liked it a lot more.
Okay.
I felt like I got more out of it.
Just, just feeling it and being,and you know, breathing out.
(02:59):
She said, I felt likeI got more out of it.
It was, I was more focused.
I was more mindful because otherwiseyou're counting and that's not,
I think that's counterintuitiveto the mindfulness piece of it.
I know there's a lot of prescriptivebreathing out there to relax.
Sometimes it's to like amp up, youknow, speed up your, or extend your
inhale and decrease your exhale.
(03:21):
It's just, to me, that's very artificial.
Um, in one of the courses thatI, the Stillness to Sympathetic-
in that course I talk aboutsomething called, uh, induction.
How do we mobilizing through induction,like forcing yourself to mobilize.
And that would be one of those ways isthrough prescribed breathing through,
(03:43):
um, longer inhales or more rapid inhales.
But I, I don't like that stuff.
I'd rather people feel connect with theirnatural state and their natural breath.
The only really prescribed breathingI'll give is mindfully maybe, maybe
take a deeper breath in once mindfully,if the body wants to, but you have
(04:04):
to connect with what the body wants.
Mindfully extend the exhale.
Maybe, you know, but not twoseconds in, four seconds.
Box box breathing, color breathing.
I'd rather we get out of ourheads and more connect with
what's happening bottom up.
I feel like I am fairly in touchwith my body and the present moment.
But if I can change my state throughinduction, that is something I am open to.
(04:25):
I'd rather not wallow in my shutdown.
Well, you said in orderto change my state.
Why do you wanna change your state?
And what's the, so what what's the point?
Is it because I don't likeit and I wanna get rid of it?
If, and if that's the case, the wayI think and the way I'm teaching in
the coursework is you're fundamentallyrejecting the natural state of your body.
(04:47):
And if you're doing that, I don't thinknatural self-regulation can occur.
You can induce it.
You can force some level of shifting, butthat's not sustainable, I don't think.
And that's not a natural, mindful,compassionate connection with yourself.
What I would argue is that when we bringmindful connection to our breath from our
(05:08):
safety state, it will change naturally.
It will naturally,through self-regulation.
Your body knows more than your brain does.
So our brain might say, "Well, I don'tlike my state. I don't want to feel
this way," and I don't blame anybody.
Of course not.
I don't like, it doesn't feel goodto be in shutdown or what- right?
(05:28):
It doesn't feel good.
So our brain, our conscious mind issaying, "No, I feel this way. I don't want
to feel this way, so I'm gonna change mybreath or drink an energy drink or I don't
know, put some sort of time constrainton myself in order to induce mobility
or to induce, induce a, a state shift."So that's our conscious plan, right?
(05:51):
But our body is really justlike, "No, just feel me.
Pay attention to me andI'll take care of the rest.
I, I can self-regulate.
I just, I need you to stayin your safety state." Right?
I'm mixing up my personas here.
Your, the body's saying, "I, I, I justneed you to bring attention to what I'm
going through and I'll take care of therest." That, that's really the shift
that I think needs to take place asfar as how we think about these things.
(06:13):
Because what- path A, when we're changingour breath, or you know, putting all
these pressures on ourselves or whatever,that is fundamentally rejecting the
natural state of our body, which tome is the opposite of self-regulation.
Path B, which I'm laying out and try andteach, is let's truly connect with the
(06:35):
state of our body and see what happens.
And what's gonna happen isit's gonna self-regulate.
It has to.
That's, that's the natural compulsion ofevery living organism is self-regulation.
I think our consciousmind gets in the way.
So trauma means we'restuck in a defensive state.
Not completely, not a hundred percent.
Um, obviously, obviously, you know,more severe at times, but there's
(06:57):
always some level of access to allthese states at any given moment.
It's never a hundred percentin any specific moment.
So even though we might be in astuck defensive state, the body is
still compelled to self-regulate.
The, the natural compulsion.
It's, it's a homeostatic biological thing.
It has to self-regulate inorder to optimally function.
(07:18):
Okay?
The more that we can get outtathe way consciously and allow
that to happen, the better.
Even though we may be in a traumatizedstate, stuck in like shutdown,
maybe- the body still has a naturalcompulsion to self-regulate.
It wants to, it needs to, butwe do things like scroll on
our phone and we distract it.
(07:39):
We use drugs, we drink, we stay outlate at night, we overeat, we undereat,
and the body's like, just stop doingall that stuff so I can self-regulate.
So the sooner we can get closer tocutting out all that noise, then the
body can say, "fricking finally, thankyou," and it can do what it needs to do.
(08:00):
The problem is it's very uncomfortable.
It's not easy, it's uncomfortable, andit requires a lot of safety activation.
But once we can get those pieces inplace, the self-regulation will happen.
The coming out of defensiveactivation will happen.
I tend to do better with productivemeans of shifting state like through
induction versus the passive.
If it's true induction, like you'reforcing it, then that's, I don't think
(08:24):
it's sustainable and it inherentlyrejects the fundamental need of our body.
There's some level of fundamentallyrejecting, "I don't want this,
I don't want this experience, Idon't wanna feel it, I don't wanna
connect with it. I'm tired of it."
Okay.
So there's that.
And then you said, you dobetter with, um, productive.
(08:47):
So that's totally fine.
Nothing wrong with that at all.
That's great.
Love it.
Again, in my client work, my questionwould be, "Okay, well, what does
productive feel like? What is, what's thaturgency? What does that feel like?" Can
we connect mindfully with that insteadof acting on it and doing something to
feel differently, can we just pause andfeel that urgency or that pressure or
that antsiness or that, whatever that is.
(09:08):
That feeling of like, no, I gottado something- that could be one's
body coming out of shutdown.
And now there's some sympatheticactivation coming in the system.
So we wanna feel that.
We want to feel thatpow, you know, mindfully.
We want to connect with that andthen use it in a way that feels
good for the body versus doingsomething to feel differently.
(09:32):
That feeling of like, I wantto, I got, I gotta do something.
I wanna do somethinglike that's a gold mine.
There's a lot there to connect with if youmindfully, patiently feel into it and just
feel, where does that live in the body?
And all the coursework stuff.
Okay.
What would happen potentially is if youcan, generally, if you could feel that
(09:57):
that rising, um, activation, we'll call itmobilization energy, if you could feel it,
it may not tell you to change your breath.
It may tell you to pullor to push or to squeeze.
Or to run or sprint or do squats.
I don't know.
(10:18):
It may tell you like,"no, no, we need to move.
We need to use, let's use our muscles."Instead of breathing differently
or distracting ourselves with someproject or whatever, your body might
say, "No, this is what we need.
Please do this so we can releaseall this activation that's coming
up within us." But we won't knowthat until we stop rejecting how we
(10:40):
feel and we deeply feel how we feel.
Then the body will tellyou, tell us what it needs.
You'll probably find that as you gothrough the coursework, it's, it's
probably very different than the otherstuff you've, I don't know where,
where else you're taking in, but Ikeep hearing from people and from my
own little, you know, as I learn andread and whatnot, what, what we're
(11:02):
doing here is very different than Ithink what other people are getting.
Can you discuss how to create the optimalconditions for the body to self-regulate?
So the optimal conditions.
I want to, I want to compartment-I want to split something up here.
What I'm not talking about is how dowe force ourselves to feel better.
That that's not okay?
The optimal way of creatingconditions for self-regulation
(11:23):
depends on what state you're in.
That's why you gotta really connectwith the state that you're in.
So if I'm in shutdown, I will do betterwith, this is my, my body in particular.
But typically people in shutdownwant lower stimulation, quiet,
um, lights usually down or maybenatural lighting, sunlight.
(11:48):
Pieces like that in general.
Lower stimulation in general.
Now, someone in particular like me,I like the scent of, uh, coconut.
That does something for my body.
It just feels, it brings me to life.
It, it's exciting.
Whereas the next person might say, "Thatdoesn't speak to me at all." So there's
general conditions like lower stimulationfor shutdown and then more specific
(12:11):
things for each of us as individuals.
But we have to listento what our body needs.
We have to be mindful of,of the needs of our body.
So if we can create that around us,that creates the external conditions
now that helps us get closer to feelingwhat it's like to be in shutdown without
forcing it, without trying to change it.
It's just listening to what do Ineed, giving it to ourselves, and then
(12:35):
looking back away inward and saying,okay, well now how do I feel now?
What's happening now?
Okay, so for someone in flightfight, they're not gonna want
probably lower stimulation.
They want more stimulation.
They might want more insteadof a close closed um.
A cozy space, they're gonnawant probably more space.
They're probably gonna want naturalsunlight and, and being outside and
(12:58):
green and, uh, pathways and, youknow, things to walk down, space to
run, space to walk that for someonein flight fight, they want that.
They don't want a closed roomwith the lights turned down.
That doesn't speak to their system.
So to create this what theyneed, they would listen to
their body and then give it.
So when people that I meet withsay, "I wake up every morning, I
(13:21):
feel anxious." I say, "okay, wellwhat do you do with that anxiety?"
They say, "Well, I, I listen to ameditation to try and slow down, or
I'll drink some tea." And I'm like,"but that's not what your body wants.
Your body wants movement.
You, you wake up, ready to move.
Why are you doing the opposite?" "Well,'cause I'm supposed to feel better.
I'm, I'm supposed to feel safe.
I'm supposed to feel calm."
It's like, "okay, but you don't. Youdon't feel that way." So instead of
(13:43):
giving yourself the opposite, whathappens if you got up and the first
thing you did was go for a walk?
Actually, someone recently wakes up.
He, I just talked to him lastweek and he wakes up with a lot
of anxiety and, uh, I said, well,what if you, we were brainstorming.
I said, "what if you, when you'remaking your eggs in the morning, what
if you stood on your toes?" 'Causethat way it's like you're still flexing
(14:04):
your muscles and you're giving yourbody a little bit more movement.
But now you're, you cancook mindfully as well.
Or what if you stood up instead ofsitting down to eat your breakfast?
Um, what if you tensed and releasedyour, your leg muscles while you eat?
What if you listened to the needsof your body and used your anxiety,
your energy, your mobilization?
(14:24):
What if you used it instead of ignoring itor try to stuff it down and feel better?
That seems counterintuitive.
I would call that "anti-logical." That'sthe opposite of what we typically do.
I fundamentally believe that the typicalwisdom we bring to these things, the cul
cultural maybe way of doing things is,is wrong, is fundamentally wrong, and
(14:47):
probably has a lot to do with why there'ssuch rampant, um, mental health problems.
Hmm.
I really believe that we arefundamentally doing things wrong.
And instead, what if we just listenedto what our body needs and provided it?
Thank you so much for joiningme on Stuck Not Broken.
I've got a little challenge for you.
Try to trust the wisdomthat your body already has.
(15:10):
Maybe I didn't convince you from thisclip, and that's fine, but as you
practice mindfulness and meditation,can you set aside the pressure to
count, to measure, or to force yourbreathing to feel something other
than what you're already feeling?
Maybe today or, or in some quietmoment, you can pause and simply ask,
(15:33):
what does my body need right now?
And the answer mightnot be what you expect.
It might not be a longer exhale,but a, a gentle stretch, a moment
of stillness or a walk outside.
Maybe it's a bigger breath, maybe it'sa breath into the belly or the chest.
Just be as open as youcan to what the answer is.
(15:56):
And if you want to keep rejectingyour body's needs and force a certain
way of breathing, that is up to you.
I'll respect that.
I don't know what your favorite gurusare telling you, but when it comes to
unstucking and the way that we do thingshere, remember the goal isn't to fix.
You're not broken, but to connectand listen, and to allow your own
(16:17):
system to guide you back to itsnatural state of safety and balance.
If you want to join me and theother students inside the Unstucking
Academy for a live q and a or oneof our other live events, uh, you
may, I would love to see you there.
The Unstucking Academy has courses, ithas live events, it's got community.
(16:39):
All of which help you do the thingsthat we talked about in this episode.
All of all of these things help youconnect with yourself without judgment
in the present moment, without trying toforce yourself to feel a different way.
We work on self-regulating bytruly connecting to the present
moment and whatever it brings.
The Unstucking Academy is awonderful little community, and I
(17:00):
say little because, well, what is,but it's also small on purpose.
There's a limit of 150 people in theUnstucking Academy, so there's not
gonna be thousands of people pouringin and out and saying whatever comes
to their mind and sharing traumastories, we don't- we don't do that.
It's a much calmer, slower paced,smaller community, and I would
love for you to be a part of it.
(17:22):
Head over toJustinLMFT.com/unstuckacademy,
JustinLMFT.com/unstuckingacademyand you can learn more.
And I really hope that youare one of the 150 people.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.