Klute (1971)

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
You're listening to Radio Free Rhinecliff
Doug Wortel and I'm Devin Irby.
Welcome to Studio Property, the cinema podcast for people like you.
This week we'll be discussing Klute from 1971, directed and produced by Alan J.

(00:24):
Pakula.
Pakula.
I just like saying his name.
Pakula.
Who's in it again?
Jane Fonda.
Donald Sutherland.
Charles, it Kiofe?
Siope?
Sure.
I'm going to go with that.
I would send coffee because it sounded cool.

(00:44):
does kind of.
Maybe it is coffee.
All right.
And of course, Roy Scheider.
The guy from, you know, all that jazz.
Or, you know, for whatever he is waiting for us to say, the guy from Jaws.
Clued is about a missing persons case that goes sideways when an illiterate novicedetective from Pennsylvania follows a prostitute with impeccable fashion taste, I might

(01:09):
add.
through the underbelly of New York City only to find that he isn't the only one tailingher.
Now for people like me, the movie is about style, it's about sex, it's about haircuts andtension-riddled, dimly lit shots filmed by a man whose nickname is literally the Prince of
Darkness.
But before we can get to all of that, roll that theme song.

(01:43):
So that's studio property, your studio property.
Hey!
Shut your mouth or you'll
So where to begin, Devin?
I guess at the beginning.
I mean, I guess that's the most logical place to start.

(02:04):
I almost just went all Maria Von Trapp there, sorry.
I was going down to the wrong genre of film.
What right genre of broadcast.
That's right.
That is true.
So starting at the beginning, we are picking up our missing persons case six months intothis guy being missing.

(02:27):
and our how did you describe our illiterate what?
Novelist detective, like he literally started that week.
OK, so he is taking on this case and he's been hired by our missing persons employerbecause he feels like the police haven't done enough.
And the only lead they have is our amazing Jane Fonda as escort and shall we say?

(02:56):
high end escort, Brie Daniels.
Yes.
And I want to assume that he's hired on the cheap.
Yes, I think so.
I mean, that's got to be why they picked him, right?
I would say the boss went econo on this case.
Yes, very, very econo.
Strangely enough, the movie is called Klute.

(03:17):
But as you're going to learn very, very quickly, has very little to do with Detective andmore about our witness.
played by Jane Fonda, which who incidentally won an Oscar for this film.
This was her first best actress win, I believe, because I think she's won twice.
18 films then.
Yeah, 18 films.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, and we will discuss, I think there's gonna be a point in the film we'll discussthe moment we're pretty sure she won said Oscar, because it is spectacular.

(03:45):
So John Klute is given his lead and has to go to New York City.
to investigate a prostitute who may or may not have been the recipient of letters by themissing person that were said to be somewhat salacious.
Yes, and may I add, allegedly by a missing person.

(04:10):
Because I feel like I've been watching a lot of cop shows lately, so I feel like I have tosay allegedly.
Like a lot, yeah.
But right away from the moment you meet Jane Fonda,
You were taken on several journeys because this becomes a character study of this womanfrom every possible angle, from not only her work, but also her aspirations.

(04:34):
Also you're invited into her, her therapy sessions, which that's a whole other realm.
She's a prostitute who is very into self care.
Exactly.
And also clearly doing well enough to afford self care.
mean, could be.
Right in the seventies.
I'm assuming it's, not inexpensive now and it definitely wasn't an expensive then either.

(04:55):
And a proper psychiatrist at that.
And this is 1971.
So this is around the time, sticky fingers is out, leds up on four is out.
This is December of 71.
So it was like seven months after I was born, which between you and me, just so you know,number one song when I was born was joy to the world.

(05:19):
by Three Dog Night.
No.
Really?
Yeah.
Yeah, it was.
I don't I know how to feel about that.
Just I don't know how to feel about that.
Like I assumed it was Supernaught by Black Sabbath, but it didn't chart.
Right.

(05:41):
my gosh.
All right.
But yes.
So that's where we set our scene is, clute has to now question this prostitute at herapartment.
And, how does that go?
initially exactly how we'd expect not well, cause again, watching too many cop shows.

(06:02):
So we always know that the person on the receiving end of that detective conversation isnever happy about it.
She's actually pretty spectacular, I think, in that moment of, like, are you who you sayyou are?
I don't really have any reason to trust you.
I think she's got a real sass about how she handles it, that first interaction, which Ireally enjoy.

(06:28):
Because I feel like it's...
Yeah, and her posture suggests that she might hurt him.
Yes.
Or could have him hurt.
Precisely.
That's some real hard core.
Yeah, yeah.
It's a good moment, but ultimately he realizes he needs to make some inroads anyway andstarts working on it.

(06:51):
And by working on it, we mean begins renting the apartment downstairs from hers.
Exactly.
Which is so weird.
As you do.
Which is so weird.
And bugging her phone.
Yes.
And is listening in from some sort of task scam reel to reel device as they did in theseventies.
Yup.
Yeah.

(07:11):
surveillance was all the rage in 1971 through 74 as we will learn as this show goes on.
Exactly.
Why was surveillance all the rage?
Was this just purely a, we think this was just purely like a Nixon thing?
Why was the- I think you the nail on the head.
I think you hit the nail on the And also visually it's interesting, isn't it?

(07:34):
I mean, that's true.
That is very true.
Visually it is interesting.
This is pre-cell phone, pre-computer, the idea of voyeurism.
Yes.
Before you could just look at somebody's profile.
You know, like it's probably the audience kink to some extent.
I would think so.
Yeah.
the lens of today.
Right.
Right.
Which is difficult because there's, I mean, the thought of actually having to put tinymicrophones into somebody's apartment, into their phone and the whole thing is just.

(08:06):
Absurd, because now we just download some software and hit a button.
Assuming you're a creeper and you do such things.
And no judgment if you do.
yeah.
I mean, guess we do have a responsibility to judge if you do and report you if we findout.
we don't know, so we're not judging you.
Exactly.
Anyway, welcome.

(08:26):
So at one point, she hears a noise upstairs on her roof, because she lives on the topfloor of this wall.
And a bright directly above her is her roof is illustrated by the skyline, which is areally cool looking skyline.
You know, usually you would find in like a Batman film.
Yes, it definitely has her apartment almost has a little bit of that 1990s like Friends.

(08:53):
How can you afford such a snazzy kind of place in New York City on your budget?
Which also then leads me to believe that she is not.
She charges a decent amount for her services.
But unlike Friends, this one feels, because of the cinematography, like it might beinfested with roaches as opposed to just white people.
True.
Fair enough.
I would agree.

(09:14):
here's a creeper upstairs and immediately gets assistance from John Klute, this detectiveplayed by Donald Sutherland who I am still convinced maybe has five lines in the whole
movie.
Why the film is named after him.
when he doesn't talk at all is just, I mean, whose choice was that?

(09:37):
I'm gonna.
And actually if it was.
Well, the guys who wrote the film came from television.
And you kind of see that a little bit in some of the mistakes the movie makes or the sortof things that are lacking in the film.
You're kind of like, yeah, that looks like a TV movie.
okay.

(09:57):
where we spend more time on the character development than we do with the plot at all.
so true.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I we get her from every possible anger, every possible angle of her psychology.
like in depth, every possible angle of her psychology.

(10:18):
I felt like the movie should be called Bree or Shag.
Shag, think, is the more clever title.
That would have been perfect title.
Not just because of her work, because of the haircut that she has, which is very popular.
Which we'll get into a little bit later, but it becomes the star of the movie after awhile.
It really does.

(10:39):
Stop me if I'm not saying this correctly.
Her East Saint Laurent dress.
That was really good.
Yeah.
East Saint Laurent.
Is that good?
Yeah, it was really good.
Look at me.
Nice.
Look out, I'm dangerous in the fashion world.
That's me clapping at the runway.
So there is, you...

(10:59):
There's a certain feeling of paranoia that goes through the entire film.
And it's really amped up in the beginning and in the, a lot of dark shots, a lot of ittakes place in the evening, which brings us back to the cinematographer whose name is
Gordon Willis.

(11:20):
right.
Gordon Willis.
shot all three Godfather films.
He did, I know he did a bunch of Woody Allen stuff, including like Annie Hall.
Mm-hmm and Manhattan he did Manhattan's he doesn't I mean I mean that's some that's somesolid street cred Yeah, this is There's some sort of mumbling because it's like well.
There's a great movies, but they're Woody Allen Yeah, yeah Kind of go and share high voicea little bit like yeah, yeah, it's all up in your nose Yeah, so he did those things which

(11:55):
are accomplishments Indeed indeed they are
So he's giving us this very dark vibe.
Also, back to the television guys, there are some editing choices that build tension in away I've not seen in many films.
And I'm not sure it's intentional because they're choices that don't make any sense.

(12:19):
For example, like you're suddenly at a location with no establishing shot.
And then immediately from outdoors to close up indoors, you're already in the scene andthen out.
And this happens a few times in the film where you're like, whoa, but you're oddly lookingover your own shoulder as it happened.

(12:40):
Right.
So it adds to that paranoid vibe because it's very jarring, the back and forth and theending up in places you weren't expecting to end up, which sort of feels like what you're
afraid is going to happen to our
our lovely escort, throughout the course of the film.
Is she ultimately ending up in safe places?

(13:00):
Because we don't feel like we are the way we're jumping around.
No.
And another thing is that her psychology is thus, that it feels like that's her thinking.
Like that's the way she communicates.
That's the way she makes choices.
So it just, think, I don't know if it's intentional, but it accidentally fits thecharacter to a T.

(13:24):
Absolutely.
100%.
And I'm going to take a moment and say like, that could be an accident, because I oncethought, I don't know if you noticed, I'm a really big fan of Saturday Night Fever.
And I had, it's incredible movie, it's Paramount Picture, but I maintain it's one of thegreatest indie movies ever made.
And The Reasons of Legion, we'll get into that as the show goes on.

(13:47):
But if I could just take a side road here, I once watched the commentary, because Ithought it was like, wow, I'm like, this is brilliant, like his
His, outfit he dances in in the end is exactly the photograph negative of his brother'spriest outfit.
Like, you know, the collar and everything.
I'm like, wow, this is incredible.
And wow, what incredible thinking to like have that, that boy make his confession aboutthe pregnant girlfriend and walk away and have the high heels on and, just to like give

(14:15):
levity to that moment.
All of these things I'm describing are an accident.
When you listen to the commentary, he has no idea.
when any like film person is saying, he just like, yeah, no, it's what kids are wearing.
And I just went with it.
So I get very reluctant to look too deeply into visual cues, especially from theseventies, when a lot of them were not intentional despite, you know, the Jean-Luc Godard

(14:42):
of it all.
Okay.
Yeah.
So I hope that made sense to anyone but me.
I clearly have known you for a while because that actually did make sense to my brain.
no one can see this right now, but I am posing as if I stopped break dancing.
So, okay, so where did we leave off?

(15:06):
I know where we left off.
We left off at, Brie has heard some noise on the roof.
And this is John Kloots Inn.
Cause at this point, the only person she could possibly have help her is the weirdodetective who now lives in her building.
Now lives downstairs.

(15:26):
Now lives downstairs.
So ultimately he helps her through this moment.
And it does turn out that it's not, or it doesn't appear to be any weirdo that's goingafter her, or at least in that moment, it doesn't appear to be that way.
And so that opens the door for them to converse slightly more pleasantly than before.

(15:49):
Yeah, but also the audience has clued in that it's not just her paranoia, which up untilthat moment, because of some of her frantic way of speaking and stuff, you're not sure.
how on the level or how with the rest of us she might be.
Right.
Yeah, they do have that in and now he's sort of like, becomes slowly but surely like asafety blanket.

(16:11):
Yes.
To breathe.
So even though he doesn't talk much and that gets more uncomfortable as we go along.
Wouldn't you agree?
Is that like?
absolutely.
Yeah.
In the beginning, it's not as noticeable.
He just seems like a man, a few words.
Maybe like he's.
you know, everything's happening upstairs.

(16:32):
It's not coming out.
He's doing a lot of hard thinking and whatnot.
But then as the movie goes on, you're like, is he thinking that much?
It does.
Reek of like any episode of love on the spectrum.
Now on Netflix.
know, does kind of have that vibe.
You're long for the ride, even though you know, it's not how you or anyone you knowcommunicate.

(16:54):
Is that fair?
I'd say that's fair.
Yeah.
As we go along.
on their relationship.
We get to see Brie has other interests besides her own stalkers and the detective thatlives downstairs.
Right.
one of these interests is she aspires to be an actress or a model of some kind.

(17:17):
You wanna set this up?
Cause there's a clip you sent me.
Yes, I love this clip.
So we get to see Brie go out on a casting call for a modeling job and
it's yes.
So first of all, the I mean the way I hit the button by mistake.

(17:39):
okay.
No, I mean the So the first thing we see is a beautiful piece of cinematography the waythis whole scene is shot.
you've got this row of beautiful women sitting in those weird modern white chairs that
kind of look like something straight out of, you know, space, 2001, a space Odyssey,little too futuristic, right?

(18:04):
And we have our marketing executives who notice as we go through the scene, we barely seethem at all.
So if you want to hit, play this a little bit and move into it.
Yeah.
Just tell us as we, as we're going along, what we're seeing here.
Okay.
Okay, so first thing is we got a real cattle call by happening.

(18:30):
So, too pretty.
We're focused entirely on the potential models.
We get to see the marketing execs just as they're moving through it.
But we don't we don't give a crap who they are.
Yeah, they're shot from the shoulder down.
Yeah, all we care about...

(18:50):
framing.
Yeah, it's very interesting framing.
Because all we really care about is what they're saying and how they're saying it.
And what we're looking at are these ladies.
These ladies who, like Bri, clearly are aspiring to something more.
And one of the first things that comes out of this scene is too pretty.
The first girl they're looking at is too pretty.

(19:12):
So, yes, pay very close attention to what these executives are mumbling at each other.
Too pretty.
Too pretty.
She's kind of exotic.
The coloring is great.
Yeah, I don't know.
It's not quite it, No, not really.
Hello.
Can I see your hands?
So we get to Brie.
Thank you.
She's got funny hands.

(19:34):
Funny hands?
What kind of a statement is that?
She is great.
The wildest thing about that is you get the idea that they probably were sitting there fora while.
Yes.
in this like sort of audition period, they're walking by these row of women, just lookingat them, making their judgments and moving to the next one, right?

(19:56):
Like you've seen that sort of lot, you see that in a film like Showgirls or something, youknow what I mean?
But it's that same thing, right?
But presented in a more respectable environment per se.
Supposedly, yes.
wait, no, allegedly.

(20:18):
It's in a more, you're right, it's in a more respectful environment.
Now they get past Brie and now they get to this woman and this is a really interestingmoment here.
Beautiful eyes.
Yes, that's the coloring.
Yeah, let me see a smile.
I think she has that cross between She's great, but I've seen you before.

(20:38):
Have you done any cosmetic ads?
Yes, I have.
You have?
conflict.
How could they this people with a conflict?
Call that agency.
Irene Dunn would have had it.
That would be perfect.
That moment is hysterical to me.
I guess they had like, you weren't allowed to do more than one Apparently it's a conflictof interest.

(21:00):
Call that agency.
In fairness, wasn't, I'm trying to think what her name was.
The one who used to hit people with phones.
Well, the model used to people with phones.
Campbell.
Yeah.
wasn't she like the Maybelline girl?
Like, aren't they exclusive to the makeup companies if once they get a contract like that?

(21:22):
Is that what they're maybe describing?
That might kind of be what they're describing.
But I think this is sort of pre that era.
I think that real exclusivity, at least in this decade, was happening at a much higherechelon.
which clearly, let's be honest, none of these are ladies we recognize other than BreDaniels, AKA Jane Fonda.

(21:46):
So this is clearly not a big end advertisement.
This is like a lower, this is a billboard someplace.
This is not like in something in Vogue, you know what I mean?
So I don't think we're at that level.
So the fact that they're perturbed by that is very funny to me, because I think you got tohit a certain, you like you said, Naomi Campbell, Kate Moss,

(22:08):
gosh, and was it Isabella Rossellini that like for years was the Estee Lauder lady?
So, right?
Were they doing that stuff exclusively?
Yeah.
I think you gotta hit a tier.
Yeah.
So you're think this isn't quite that tier.
No, no.
Which makes it even more offensive to me because I feel like they're acting like they'reat that tier, but whatever crap cosmetics they're advertising is not at that tier.

(22:36):
I love the framing of the shot, like the three paintings taken at different exposures ofthe same shot and the row of women sitting across from it, but also the two women
surrounding our Brie Daniels are, you you heard them describe one of them as exotic andthe coloring, that's the coloring.
They're very darker, much darker women, almost Caribbean, right?

(23:02):
And she is very not.
Did I get that wrong?
Do you think so?
I would say they are what we would classically think of as, this is going down a real PCroad.
But what would have been considered exotic before- Ease on down the road.

(23:23):
Right.
Before there was a clear understanding of, you said Mediterranean was exotic when we allknow that that's not actually the case.
Right.
So feel like, and that's a little bit of the era we're in where they're like, so, mygoodness.
So, I mean, honestly, the one to Brie Daniels, well, her right, us looking at it at theleft, kind of looks like she's taking a little bit of inspiration from Malvira, but, you

(23:51):
know, trying to tone it down a bit.
But she's also, her skin is like very odd.
you know, it could be.
Possibly be an Italian woman, but like how great would have been like this is the coloringWow, where are from?
You're so exotic.
She's like Staten Island.
Yes, I'm from Bensonhurst.

(24:12):
Yeah, I live on Beth Avenue Yeah, yeah We now know that ladies backstory that is exactlywhat's going on right there.
We definitely just wrote a better scene We did we really did
So that was that.

(24:34):
go ahead.
No, no, I was just gonna say, but yeah.
So that is what leads us to at least the beginning of the understanding of, of Bri hasaspirations.
She doesn't want to be an escort or just an escort.
She is trying to do something else.
And this is kind of our, our first real glimpse into that.
And these, the scene doesn't, I'm wondering, it does pay off in the sense of like,

(25:02):
Clu as you went on the things she knows, especially when with another, a John, right?
Like she is very aware of, like at one point she is on a job, prostituting, but shedoesn't have to actually physically do anything with the gentlemen.
She is just taking off this incredible dress, which becomes the iconic dress of Clu, whichincidentally she wears, I think,

(25:30):
20 years later at an Oscar ceremony, Jane Fonda, it is like the occlude dress, but shetakes it off and she starts talking about the Cannes Festival or the Cannes Festival.
Right.
Like all of sudden she's like, you know, she's talking about filmmaking and that sort ofthing.

(25:53):
And it's a little bit of an introduction.
weird character.
Right.
But characters are the right.
word because she's, cause here we see, I feel like you see this modeling, potentialmodeling gig and you realize she doesn't get to do the things she wants to do.
Cause ultimately, I mean, to a certain extent is, that not what modeling is, but also kindof a form of acting, right?

(26:16):
You are essentially acting in, in a way I would say.
And so that's what she's trying to do.
And so then later we get to see her with a John and that's quite literally what she'sdoing.
She's essentially.
telling this fantastic story, right?
This very fanciful story that clearly can't be true.
And the John, that's what he's there for.

(26:38):
it's like her, there's a real Gypsy Rose Lee kind of vibe to it where it's almostburlesque, where it's very sensual.
She's telling the story.
She's wearing this beautiful gown and then she's stripping as she's talking to him.
So there's not even any sex in that moment, but you do get this real feeling of.

(27:00):
she's acting, she's feeling the part, that is how she's doing the work she wants to do,which is essentially to be an actress.
And if I'm not mistaken, isn't Klute following her on this gig?
Yes, I think Klute is following her at that point, yeah.
So you as the audience are sort of the condiment in a voyeur sandwich, would you agree?

(27:24):
Yes, because remember, in that moment, not only have we realized Klute is following her,
But since we have figured out that her paranoia is real, whoever the actual bad guy is, isalso following her.
So it's like a Russian doll of voyeurism happening in a Russian doll of voyeurism.
That is a perfect description.

(27:44):
Yeah.
At one point, Bree starts getting these phone calls in the middle of the night and theyhang up on her.
There's some breathing.
But it's also very scary.
Like she's like, who is this?
the
There's nobody on either end of the phone.
Yeah.
Let's go back to we're in 71.

(28:06):
There's, you know, not only is it a dial up phone.
Yes.
Thank you.
It's like not only is this like, you know, there's no cell phones.
It's, know, there's not even like star 69 to figure out who called you because they triedto block their call.
None of that.
No caller ID whatsoever.
No, none of that exists.
And it's a landline which is attributed to an address.

(28:30):
So it's worse because in theory that means that this person who was ever making thesecreepy calls knows your address.
Knows where she lives.
I mean, it is that's not comfortable.
No, and it is kind of level of paranoia that I think doesn't exist anymore because wecurrently live in a world where there's a little bit of anonymity to a certain degree.

(28:54):
There's so much that's just transient, right?
You move and you keep your cell phone number from the place you used to live.
So the area code doesn't match.
So it doesn't mean anything.
And, know, you go down that path.
So as a result of these things happening on a continuously, she goes downstairs and sleepsat Klute's apartment where he pulls out.

(29:16):
Remember whatever that bunk bed thing was?
Trundle bed, trundle bed.
So he has a trundle bed.
Yeah.
Like a 12 year old girl.
or a family, right?
No, it's true.
Cause who has Shuna Beds?
12 year old girls and pioneer families from like 1854.
Now, if you can imagine young Donald Sutherland, not in the long sweater with his buttsticking out from Animal House, Donald Sutherland.

(29:46):
We're talking about like, he kind of looks like his son in Lost Boys Without the Mullet,right?
yeah.
Yes.
I would say so.
in like full on Mike Brady dad pajamas sleeping on a trundle bed.
And they are hardcore Mike Brady dad pajamas.
I mean with like the collar and everything.
Stripey collar.

(30:08):
dear lord.
And he almost has a weird Frankenstein walk to the door too.
Yes he does.
He's not, my point is he's not oozing sexuality right?
Like Prince ain't coming to the door.
No.
No it's just Franken Sutherland.

(30:28):
It's just a guy named Klute.
who you've learned nothing about.
And I, can't stress this point enough.
Like, and I don't, the movie should be named after her.
And because it's 71 and how women and women characters are regarded in 1971, the sequelwould still be called Klute two back in the habit or something.

(30:55):
Yes, it would.
It really would.
It's bizarre how the movie has like, it's called Klute and
what you get from the main character who the film is named after is maybe five lines andsome Mike Brady pajamas.
But how about you walk us through what happens next, Evan?
All right, so Brie is scared.

(31:20):
So she comes down because to Kluth's apartment asks if she can stay there.
He is absurdly gentlemanly says she can sleep in his bed.
he will sleep on said trundle bed and pull it out again, like a 12 year old girl, whichinitially they're in their own beds.

(31:42):
And then she decides that maybe, there should be a bit more.
And so she decides to crawl into bed with him and carnality ensues.
I don't even think that's a word.
is now, and we're going to continue to use it.
until some English teacher implodes, but we're missing a step because the trundle, trundleor trundle?

(32:07):
Trundle with a U.
The trundle bed has not been risen up to the height of the other bed per se.
He's still on the floor.
Yeah, well, she's got to roll down like she's playing with her brother's bunk bed.
Yes, but I mean, that is a classic trundle bed situation where it just like rolls out andthen they're like uneven.

(32:28):
So she does have to kind of like.
It's a maneuver.
She has to do a real maneuver and make a choice to hop into that bed with him.
There's no graceful way.
There's no sexy way to...
She can't like slither down like, caw.
No.
Right?
Like, she just...
In fact, it continues to add to the un-sexyness of the moment because he's not sexy withhis weird, awkward, no-talkiness.

(32:57):
The trundle bed isn't sexy.
His pajamas aren't sexy.
There's nothing sexy about essentially that sex scene at all.
No.
But we have a clip from that sexy.
okay.
So you're gonna talk us through this.
Okay, all right.
Wait, one moment.
I'm still stuck on the trundle bed thing.
Wait, isn't there a latch where the bed can pop up to the other height of the other bed orno?

(33:25):
No, mean, not if it's a classic trundle bed, no.
If it's a classic trundle bed, no.
It just rolls out essentially.
opposed to a cherry trundle bed?
What do you mean?
Well, no, no.
Like, again, because I was once a 12 year old girl and have slept in one of those.
mean, that is a classic like sleepover kind of situation.

(33:47):
So it's like if you instead of having bunk beds, you know, you've got just like one bed.
Just imagine the bunk bed is just squeezed right in underneath and it just rolls rightout.
And it yeah, usually doesn't pop up.
It's usually stays a little low.
because I was thinking like, why didn't he hit the switch and the thing pops up to thelevel of the other one and they shove them and make one big
All right.

(34:07):
No, I don't know.
I'm not.
My trundle knowledge is remiss.
Again, you were never a 12 year old girl.
no.
here we go.
Here we go.
Here's the a minute.
This is no, that's not him.
This is the client.
This is the John.
Not our John.
That's this is.

(34:29):
yeah.
This is not that scene.
this is a different sex scene.
This is a different sex scene.
This is the one where we get like the real she's acting vibe because she checks her watch.
yeah.
Yeah.
Wait, hold on.
Let's get this performance a little bit.
my angel.
And she's looking at her watch.

(34:50):
my God.
If I had a nickel.
Brilliant.
And then immediately the next shot is her at the bodega getting flowers.
But.
Yeah, so that's not, we don't have this sex scene with, we didn't pull that clip, but it'sokay.
I think we described it adequately.
Honestly, I don't think anybody wants to see it if they haven't already seen it, becauseit is so awkward.

(35:12):
I mean, unless, you know, dad pajamas is your kink, and again, we're not here to judgeyou.
Nope, nope, not at all.
But the other thing, the other moment from that scene that we haven't discussed is thefact that afterwards, she treats the moment entirely transactional.
and then basically insults him and then kind of gets upset that he was insulted.

(35:34):
Because what does she call him?
she calls him a John, right?
Doesn't she say like, I She's like, were a real tiger or something.
She calls him like a tiger.
right, right, yeah.
Yeah, which I don't know, maybe in 1971.
Because there's a famous Spider-Man comic book where that's actually like a compliment,right?

(35:56):
Really?
She's like, you hit the jackpot.
Tiger, that's the.
Yeah, I don't think it means the same thing.
She meant it in like a sexual content, like content.
Yeah, I mean, because he's so awkward and I have no better word.
I know I've said that like 10 times, but he's so awkward.

(36:16):
Tiger, she meant he was tranquilized at the zoo.
That's exactly what she meant.
So no wonder he was offended.
She was she blatantly said to him.
Were you upset that I didn't come?
I never do with a John.
Right, right.
Well, and of course, the thing too is I when she says that out loud, I'm like, girl, hedidn't know he didn't know at all because clearly he's very inexperienced, not just

(36:44):
sexually, but as you know, he's only been on the job for a week as a detective.
He's new at everything.
he's pretty new at everything.
He's like if he was probably just born out of like a pod.
like two weeks before the movie happens, right?
for sure.
No, so like why in that moment I just I felt so uncomfortable for him because I was likehe didn't approach her.

(37:12):
She approached him.
He was receptive, but he didn't make the move.
And then afterwards, she's basically like, don't worry, weirdo.
Nobody does it for me.
And I'm like, he didn't know.
He didn't know nothing was happening.
happening?
Why?
You know, it's a weird moment.
I have an explanation.

(37:33):
I feel like because she does talk about their physical relationship as it continues.
She talks about it in therapy, right?
Yeah, she talks about how she's not used to joy coming from her body and however she wordsit but like, you get the idea that she is intentionally right afterwards.
pushing him away immediately.

(37:54):
Yes.
She's putting boundaries up from herself, like afterwards.
That's fair.
That's, yeah, that's fair.
I think you can infer that for a few different reasons.
Like it's intentional.
she's being sincere in the moment of the acts, but afterwards she's like, shit, what did Ido?
And then she's very much like abusive at him.

(38:16):
Almost as though she felt like being intimate with him was the only way she could.
like a show appreciation almost, like it was all she, the only way she had to show likeappreciation.
And then as you say afterwards, panicking like, crap.
I'm glad we got down to the bottom of that mystery.

(38:38):
Yeah.
Cause the Mike Brady thing was really wiggin me out.
So yeah, it was again, we're starting as our first episode right away.
The first sex scene we got to talk about was a nightmare really.
Yeah, yeah.
I hope this isn't indicative of how every other movie we select is gonna go.

(39:00):
No.
constant awkwardness.
Moving right along, we also have a scene where they start to piece together that theremight have been another prostitute who might have interacted with, I wanna say, yeah, the
missing person, right?
Or the abuser.
There's a connection with an abuser.

(39:22):
Right, because we've been working off the premise that the missing person is the abuser,but obviously our friend Clu doesn't believe it's the same person and he thinks there's
something a lot fishier going on.
And obviously post our, this them being intimate, she opens up a little more and it startsto actually help him, which is what he's been wanting the whole time to try to get to this

(39:47):
particular prostitute that might actually be able to lead them to the abuser.
And I guess we shouldn't really say abuser, we should say attempted murderer, becausereally that's what we've learned is there was a John who tried to kill both of these
escorts.
Right, both Bree and a friend whose name escaped me.
didn't write it Arlen, Arlen Page.

(40:08):
Arlen?
I think I just thought it was a really interesting name, so it stuck in my brain, Arlen.
That is a cool name.
Right?
Arlen.
I like it.
Yeah.
I never met an Arlen.
Me neither.
Nope.
So they go looking for Arlen and we do run into different contractors per se.

(40:30):
Like there's a madam in one scene and then there's the pimp played by Officer Brody.
Scheider.
Yeah.
Officer Brody.
And he's a pretty convincing pimp.
He is.
A little unnerving actually.
He's quite good.
He has that glare, that like

(40:52):
almost like that Harvey Keitel on Taxi Driver thing where you're like, yeah, he absolutelyhas seen the thing.
Like he has definitely, he definitely worked in the trade.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.
He's really gives off that vibe, for sure.
And then of course we also run into just a number of other fellow prostitutes that sheknows throughout that process as well.

(41:16):
Yes, and they seemingly don't have the fashion sense she does.
I'll say that.
no, not at all, not at all.
Yeah, not down with the, magazines led her to the East Saint Laurent.
Right?
In 1971.
Yeah, so I mean.
Yeah, they didn't have the same subscriptions to the same fashion magazines as ZarbriDaniels.

(41:40):
No, no, not in the slightest.
The other little moment we get as they're going, you know, they're meeting all thesecharacters and trying to find Arlen.
is when they actually go to the morgue and the what appears to be receptionist or clerk atthe morgue lets them go through photos of dead prostitutes to see if one of them is Arlen,

(42:05):
which is a very, very disturbing scene, particularly considering how casual it is.
They're just looking through photographs.
I also have to point out that like he's not associated with, first of all,
the state of New York at all, nevermind a precinct.

(42:25):
I just, that took me out a little bit, because I'm like, yeah, I don't think they're justgoing to let some private dick from like Scranton, right?
Right.
Come in and just be like, I need to see your, you know, I need to go through the cardcatalog of dead prostitutes.
And, you know, I don't know.

(42:46):
I mean, I feel like that wouldn't be the case today, but again, we're talking about 1971.
We're talking about, people were letting their children smoke in the passenger car withouta booster, so yeah.
Exactly.
Well, but also not even being buckled.
So yeah, so I don't know, maybe it was common to let a detective, yeah.

(43:07):
Right.
maybe.
Like, come right in.
A hopeless, quiet man.
Come on in.
Officer Mumbles, come on in and take a look at these photos.
my gosh.
But ultimately we discover she's not a dead.
She's not dead.
Or at she's not.

(43:28):
Doesn't have a photo in the morgue.
So we know that much.
Right.
And they and they find somebody who sends them.
I want to say that it was Roy Schreider, Roy Schneider, Schneider, Schneider, Schneider,Schneider, Schneider.
I always say Schneider.
And then I go Schneider.

(43:49):
Because I feel like that would have all my bases covered.
Yeah, I get it, I get it.
Yeah, there's an instinct to do that in conversation.
now our conversations are examined.
So I'm on a microphone, so I should get things correct.
I mean, maybe.
So our friend Roy S.
said to them that like, you know, she's a junkie or something, right?

(44:11):
Right.
Like she's.
She's a junkie now and she's got a junkie bow, so.
Which is good, because you don't want to be a junkie alone.
No, no, don't know.
So Bree include go to Arlen's walk up.
again, I can't stress this enough.
Like some of the cinematography in this film is next level.

(44:35):
mean, this this guy cut his teeth on this film and he took that shot from across thestreet on a rooftop.
It's just an exterior of them walking in.
It's one of the few establishing shots we get in the movie.
They're going up to the walk up.
takes the shot from across the street.
And what's incredible is that like how run down the Lower East Side is in 1971.

(45:00):
It looks like a city that's never going to return from whatever shape it's in.
And to think like 60, 71, 67, she was in Barefoot in the park, Jane Fonda.
Right.
With Robert Redford, I think, right?
And it's very,
mid uptown very, you know, Manhattan is a dream, know?

(45:23):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm You know, and this is not that this is the slums on the Lower East Side shot by the thePrince of Darkness from a rooftop across the street where you could see the watermarks on
the building in the on the left peripheral.

(45:45):
It is just a
phenomenal shot that you get for maybe seven seconds as they're going up that walk up.
And it's incredible.
And we get to a scene that I've never seen anything like in another film that I canremember.
And that is where we meet Arlen.

(46:05):
You want to walk us through that?
Yeah.
So initially Arlen doesn't want to let them in, obviously.
It's very evident very quickly that she and her beau are strung out and they fully admitthat they're waiting for their dealer to show up.
And it's a very painful scene to watch Brie and Arlen, who clearly at some point did havean actual friendship.

(46:38):
You don't know how much of a friendship, but I mean, these were two women who workedtogether.
So there's something of a friendship that existed.
And Bree's saying, we need your help.
We need to know who that John was.
We need you to give us a little something.
And Arlen's just like, no, you got to go.
Because if he shows up, if our dealer shows up and you're here, he will take off.

(46:59):
And it's just this back and forth with Bree and Klute trying to get at least a little bitof info out of Arlen and Arlen reluctantly finally giving in and giving them a little
something and then just being like, you need to go.
And then of course what happens?
Our guy shows up.
The dealer shows up and sees John Klute who, although Devin and I would agree, definitelynot a cop.

(47:26):
The dealer thought he might've been a cop.
Right.
And he flees immediately and Arlen's boyfriend chases after him with Arlen and he's notcoming back.
And go ahead, describe this, because this is
blew my mind.
So it's just so, so real and so painful.

(47:50):
So the bow and Arlen come back in and you just see the desperation on their faces and, hegoes and he just kind of gets into the bed and lays down.
She, she gets like a wet rag to like put on his head and just, it's the two of them justkind of having this, we are screwed.

(48:11):
We are so strung out.
and there is nothing we can do right now.
The one relief we had, the guy took off and you can see they have nothing emotionally leftto give, Brie and Klute.
They don't even have enough to, it almost appears to even really be angry.
It's just kind of a, you just need to go.

(48:31):
It's like there's- This is an incredible performance too.
Like the look of like, it's almost like somebody died.
It's like-
the thing they were looking forward to the most in the world that could give them somesort of such a slipped away and the emptiness that they convey to the camera in that

(48:52):
moment will haunt you after the film is over.
can only compare it to, did you ever watch Orange is the New Black?
Yeah.
Natasha Lyonne in this one specific episode that sticks out to me more than any other.
And it's the moment where she's just walking in the hallway with the other girls andsomebody palms her a bag of heroin.

(49:15):
And you know, her character was an ex junkie and got herself clean.
And she does this all with a look that happens maybe a millisecond.
She looks into her palm and you could see, wow.
But also the death of myself.
And like, she just knows she's going to die.
Like she looks at it.
She can't resist what's in her palm.

(49:38):
She's excited about it.
It's an, like somebody handed her like a cat corpse or something.
The way she looks in her head, like somebody just palmed her like a dead cat.
She just looks at it like, I'll never forget that as long as I live.
And this is right there with that.
Like that kind of moment that I'll never identify with.

(50:02):
Thank goodness.
But also it's still haunting.
And it's so interesting too that it's such a small part, right?
It's not a big part.
You only see Arlen like briefly maybe one other time throughout the course of the film,because most of the film, she is just the lady they are trying to find.

(50:24):
And the actress is Dorothy Tristan, who quite frankly isn't a name any of us are gonnaknow.
So you have this kind of unknown woman who's barely in this film.
who gives you this absolutely spectacular performance.
Dorothy Tristan.
Dorothy Tristan.
And he does too, and the bow does too.

(50:45):
And I don't even know, I don't even remember if the bow has a name, to be honest.
And I feel like I'm being nice by calling him the bow, because we just know that he's herfellow junkie boyfriend.
I'm just looking at something, you know, she was born in 1934.
Really?
Is that wild?
Yeah.
That is wild.
Is she still alive?
She passed away in January of last year.

(51:10):
I feel like we've recorded our Clue episode at exactly the wrong moment.
Because we could have had Dorothy Tristan and we could have asked her about theamazingness of this random small performance.
you know, what about I didn't tell you that, you know, I'm at the station studio at themoment, right?
And there's a phone line here that goes off.

(51:32):
I'm not answering because we're new.
don't know.
see the light going on, right?
There's that line and then there's this other line.
I think this is where I can like do an outgoing intercom thing to the front.
Yeah.
I'm gonna wire that to my Ouija board.
Yeah.
So I'm saying that like maybe we can get Dorothy on the show inevitably.

(51:58):
I'm sure there's some permissions or something I need to ask for.
Okay.
yeah.
That would be great, because I want to know.
really feel like we need to talk to her.
you know, I mean, as soon as I get that done, like as soon as I figure out the logisticsof that, then I think that should be our first guest from the beyond.
OK.
But anyway, Brie and Klute are driving away from this scene.

(52:24):
Brie is just really shook up about what's happened.
And she gets out of the car and we find her in a disco.
I'm not misremembering that, right?
Like she just suddenly in a disco.
I mean, it's 71.
So it's an actual disco.

(52:44):
In the daytime.
It wasn't nighttime when they were driving.
No, it wasn't.
It wasn't.
But then she wanders into like a disco matinee of sorts.
Right.
And it's a little hard and heavy in that disco.
considering it's not, you know, two in the morning.

(53:06):
It's a little unnerving.
The disco's a little intense.
Yeah, to your point, it looks like it's the end of the night.
Yeah.
She starts making out with a guy for no reason.
She's sweating heavily.
Because suddenly we learn she's strung out and there was no indicator of this up untilthat moment in the film at all, right?

(53:30):
Like there was just.
No, other than her little like post-work pot seemed to be the only inkling we got that shehad any other real habits.
We don't even really see her drink any alcohol throughout the course of the film.
Just a little occasional like post-work pot, Zen time.

(53:51):
it makes this moment that much more intense and weird.
Yeah.
So are we to assume that like a lot of time has
Has she like hopped out of the car, gone into a disco and clearly she's gotten high andthat we're catching her hours later by the time we see her again and she's clearly strung

(54:14):
out?
I don't think it's communicated well at all in that moment.
Not even by the standards of 1971.
She just suddenly, bam, she's there.
And that felt like a television edit.
Yes, it did.
And of course, our disco is where she runs into creepy, gross pimp Roy Scheider again.

(54:34):
you know, but I also have to point out on the way to Roy S.
She passes Candy Darling, who is a very famous transgender actress, one of the greatestAmerican recordings, one of the most beautiful songs ever written is about Candy Darling.
And it's called Candy Says by the Velvet Underground.

(54:55):
If you've never heard it.
stop this right now.
I'd rather you stop this show and check that out because it's that impactful.
But Candy Darling had a cameo.
She's one of Andy Warhol's starlets from back in that day.
And she had a cameo.
So Jane Fonda walked by Candy Darling and into the lap or next to Roy S.

(55:19):
And he puts his arm around her and like he just looks like King Lion in that moment.
Like, and he's just sort of petting her the side of her head while like he's thumbing theback of her neck, but petting the side of her face.
It's all very pimpy.
Super pimpy and very gross.
Her inability to process what, you know, the interaction that really was the result ofthat amazing scene with Arlen just before that.

(55:47):
Now I'm going to get into the shag haircut around here, right?
Because this is where
we start from here on out, we start to get a lot of the iconic moments that define thefilm.
Like if you've ever seen a trailer of it or if there's ever like a scene of Klute playedin like a TCM highlight reel, that Shag haircut is featured prominently.

(56:14):
It was 1971, right?
So the Shag haircut, it's the haircut that Joan Jett has.
It's the haircut David Bowie had.
There's different versions of it, like the David,
Cassidy had a version of the shag haircut, but the shag haircut has these like sort ofwisps at the bottom.
Yeah.

(56:34):
It's not a mullet as much as a clumsily spilled fountain out of the back of head.
Yeah.
Like the top is very much like a crown.
Yeah.
So Jane Fonda got that haircut in real life.
That's not for the film.
She got that haircut right before shooting.

(56:55):
because she was coming off of a divorce from her ex-husband who is a very famous Frenchdirector who very intentionally wanted to mold her into his ex-wife.
He was really trying to make her like Brigitte Bardel, right?
Which is how we get Barbarella.
He was the director on Barbarella and she's essentially Brigitte Bardel in Barbarella.

(57:22):
So really this haircut is your classic penultimate breakup haircut.
I mean, that's what it is, right?
That is exactly what it is.
It is your classic breakup haircut.
She just happened to get an amazing breakup haircut.
Tell us more about it.
all the way to St.

(57:43):
Mark's Place to get it from the guy who created that haircut.
I mean, that's what I'm talking about.
That man's name.
Was Paul McGregor and I'm just gonna get into him for a moment because he has a veryinteresting story and now that we have an Instagram I'm gonna put up a photo of him
because Okay Because you must see this magical person.

(58:03):
So Paul McGregor was a truck driver and a longshoreman But also a hairstylist and heopened up after visiting st.
Mark's place once he felt sort of the power of that neighborhood and the creativity and heopened up a
a hair salon there and created this haircut.

(58:24):
And it took off like wildfire.
Celebrities just kept, it just kept different variations of it.
It evolved and became its own thing.
And before he knew it, he had 10 locations of this hair salon all over the country.
But this guy's a very creative person.

(58:44):
got...
bored very quickly, so he decided to close the shop and then turn it into the world'ssmallest roller disco.
And that ran successfully for two years until a kid broke his arm in it.
He was sued for a million dollars, but never got insurance, so paid $12,000 in asettlement.
yeah, no, I went down a rabbit hole with this.

(59:05):
I love this story.
So he decides he's going to turn it into a bar, but then bar fights start happeningimmediately in the summertime.
So he's like,
you know what screw this noise I'm going turn into a gay bar because gays don't fight andit famously becomes the boy bar on St.
Mark's Place and there's you know it's sort of the sister bar to the pyramid club ifyou're from New York you know what that is.

(59:29):
Boy bar is also where RuPaul, Lady Bunny and all the drag queens from that elk get theirstart that's ground zero for everything you see in pop culture to this day it comes out of
his bar boy bar.
So, yeah, so I just thought that was a pretty incredible story.
So you should read more about Boy Bar because it's got some, there's some wild things, butincredible pop culture history comes out of that one building.

(59:57):
It is fascinating.
I mean, that's a jack of all trades right there.
A longshoreman.
What is a longshoreman actually?
What is a longshoreman?
I've heard it so much that I don't, I know they're away for like three months at a clip.
But I don't know exactly what they do.
assume, are they fishermen?
Something like that.
I am assuming somebody is going to be listening to this and be very annoyed that we don'tknow the answer, but we apologize.

(01:00:21):
But like, I don't even know what that is.
mean, somebody screaming into their speaker.
You both have phones.
You can look this up.
Yes, we could even edit it for time.
But now that we're here now, I'm just like, no, you know what?
No, we're here.
Yeah, we're not going to do it.
We're just going to sit in the mystery.
because it is a truck driver slash longshoreman slash I've invented one of the mostrenowned haircuts ever.

(01:00:48):
And then gave like the best breakup haircut ever because of it.
also Devin and I feel very comfortable sitting into in the bubble of curiosity.
We do.
Yeah.
I like wonder.
It's, it's good.
So what happens after this?

(01:01:08):
After this.
Our movie takes a very interesting turn because this whole time, because we are gettingtowards the climax of the film, right?
So this whole time we've been just really in this really interesting character drivenfilm.
We get all aspects of this amazing, well rounded individual in Brie Daniels, even thoughthe person who the movie is named after has barely said anything.

(01:01:39):
And all we really know is that he's not good at his job and he wears my brainy pajamas.
so so we go through all of that.
And then suddenly, suddenly we discover that he has access to essentially a I want to sayhandwriting expert, but not a handwriting expert, but like somebody who like can compare

(01:02:04):
typewriter stuff like.
What would the modern equivalent of that be like being able to an actual detective?
And I remember some of the notes he's writing himself or like, do you think it's that guy?
Question mark when he's he has like a notepad when he's investigating things and he's likejotting things down that are basically like.

(01:02:28):
I wonder, I wonder if it's her question mark.
It's just like.
think there's nothing, there's no string theory going on, nothing.
just.
Right, no, nothing.
Yeah.
So all of that, and then suddenly we hit the jackpot because our mystery man who ismissing, who we don't know at all, we discovered that the letter that was found in his

(01:02:51):
office that made everybody think that he was the one that tried to murder theseprostitutes in the first place, that he didn't type that letter because it wasn't done on
his typewriter.
So now.
Klute has started secretly getting samples from other typewriters in the office to figureout who typed the letter.

(01:03:12):
And what do we find out?
Klute discovers the typewriter where the skanky letter came from was actually the boss,who is the guy who hired Klute to find the missing person in the first place.
So now we're in a real pickle and we don't know how we got there because they're...
Because we're like, why wasn't anybody doing that in the first place?

(01:03:35):
Why didn't the cops do that six months ago?
But you know, it's, you know, really clued is the friends we made along the way.
I mean, basically clued is inside of us all along is what we learned.
Because, yeah, he's not much of a detective.

(01:03:58):
So he decides he's going to bait his employer by telling him that he has found a blackbook or something that he doesn't actually have and tells him that he is going to, he
needs money.
I love that he gets another 500 bucks out of the guy.

(01:04:20):
He's like, which in 1971, let's be honest, is like $20,000, right?
yeah, for sure.
He's like, so he gets another $500 out of the guy and he's like, yeah, I need this to fundthis, me walking down the street to find this black book, presumably.
But before we get too far ahead, we have to actually let you guys know that this sameemployer is not only stalking her, we still don't know why at this moment, but we have

(01:04:45):
surmised at this point that at one point he broke into her home.
The night after she slept with Klute in his man pajamas.
Yes.
Yeah.
Yes.
This is correct.
He had destroyed her apartment completely.
Like he cut up her mattresses.

(01:05:06):
Yeah.
And then at one point she picks up her underwear and with like two fingers like, and thenyou later on learn what had happened.
Devon, what happened?
He was disgusting and he underpants and they're like good underpants too.
Clearly underpants she'd wear out on a job.

(01:05:27):
They're not granny panties.
he- Yeah, they weren't cheap.
They weren't cheap.
And it is truly a foul violation of a person's privacy.
He broke into her apartment, destroyed things and then off in her underpants and left themfor her.
That's another moment I have to say when we realize we are

(01:05:50):
in 1971 and not 2024, because of course, the first time I watched it, I immediately went,forensics!
But of course that.
Right.
This could have all been solved with one DNA test.
Exactly.
It could have been solved with one DNA test.
Not so in 1971.
Yeah.
She could have like, just walked to the police station with those underwear, like in apair of tongs.

(01:06:13):
Yes.
Like someone spilled their minnows in these.
Please run this under the microscope.
And then voila.
Exactly.
He's in cuffs like in an hour.
How much do we know about pre, say 1990 forensics?
Because I'm kind of also wondering, is this another area in which we realize cluit isterrible at this job?

(01:06:38):
Because even though we couldn't have DNA matching, there was some like blood typing andsuch that was done.
There was a little
There was like a little bit of biological forensic, shall we say.
So, right.
Did Klute mess up by not going to the cops?
Well, you would think if he had his own practice, he would have by then like contracted alab, right?

(01:07:04):
Right.
become sort of a regular of like, you you know how businesses are that, you like youscratch your back and I'll give you these soiled underpants to look at for me.
Like, you know what I mean?
Like, yeah.
So like,
He's bad business.
He's bad at business as well.
He's terrible detective.
He didn't even have like a great office like the Newark cops.

(01:07:26):
Right.
You know, like it's wish Friday middle of the night.
I had this dame walked in with a case, but I knew what she really wanted.
Pizza.
No, you're no, you're right.
Yeah, because you got to I mean, a good detective also has to have a bottom drawer that adoor and a drawer in his desk, a bottom drawer where he always pulls out

(01:07:47):
a dirty glass and a bottle of whiskey.
None of that happens in this film.
Klute does none of those things.
But again, if there's a sequel, it'll be named after him.
Yep.
No doubt.
No doubt.
The 70s were gross.
But so what happens is he does bait the gentleman and Bree ends up being confronted by himfirst.

(01:08:13):
And we should probably throw in that
before Brie is confronted by our bad guy, she does try to go see her psychiatrist.
Right.
So she's having a little bit of a, this is crazy, they figured out who it is, I now knowthe identity, or I think we know the identity of a man who tried to kill me.

(01:08:36):
And at this point, we've also learned that Arlen, since we saw her in the showing upboyfriend, That's right.
has been found dead.
She's been murdered.
So we assume this is the guy who murdered Arlen.
He tried to murder Brie.
So poor Brie can't get in to see the psychiatrist.

(01:08:56):
So what does she do?
She goes to see her old gentleman friend who she stripped for earlier in the film.
At some garment district warehouse that looks like a dry cleaner.
Precisely, it does look like a dry cleaner.
And so she but he's not there so she decides to wait for him and instead he's met with theguy who now you as the audience understand not only soiled her underpants but has murdered

(01:09:27):
her friend Arlen and was the John they were looking for in the first place.
Yep and the worst part he's been involved the whole time and it is nowhere to be found inthis include is nowhere to found finder.
No cell phones.
And also bad detective.

(01:09:48):
Right, and bad detective.
And of course, we've also figured out at this point that our missing guy is also probablyat this point dead and has been murdered by the same bad guy.
So he's just killing people left and right.
But then what happens next, Evan?
Well, in some amazing cinematography and...

(01:10:12):
As you said earlier, definitely shot by the Prince of Darkness.
Our bad guy startles Bree in the weird dry cleaning Garmick District building.
And they go and sit in an office in the building and he pulls out, please describe thetape recorder essentially that he pulls out.

(01:10:33):
Let me see.
It is.
It's almost like a little mini reel to reel tape too.
I know they used to make cassettes like that back in the day, but this is literally a minireel to reel.
It's amazing.
That thing is spectacular.
And it's like pocket sized.
It's teeny weeny.
I don't know that it's ever really existed.

(01:10:54):
It's probably just for the film because it's so striking.
And I feel like there would be some vintage collection of these things if they were real.
I still collect records, right?
Like I would have one of these things had I seen one at like any hobbyist store or anylike even antique shop.
I would own it.

(01:11:15):
I would have it.
Right.
I don't think it's real.
But in the movie, it's it's there and it's spectacular.
And so he plops it on the desk.
And what does he start to play on it?
But he's recording a visit between him and Arlen and

(01:11:40):
He just pulled it out the cassette.
Yeah, look at that thing.
It's amazing.
He's just pulling out and has like a little remote control switch too and just rollingthis thing.
I mean, it practically looks like it's on a lithium battery.
here we go.
Here we go.
Five miles outside of New York.

(01:12:01):
Do you mind if I turn the lights down?
No, it's up to you.
Turn the light on if you'd like.
So Arlen thinks he's a John at this point.
My name is Peter Cable.
work for the Toll American Corporation, which is situated in Pennsylvania and in New York.

(01:12:21):
Obviously, I would not be telling you these things if my intentions weren't honorable.
Okay.
Why would you give your real name and where you work on a tape that, as you will learn,
contain as a murder on it.

(01:12:41):
Like if I'm killing someone, I'm not saying like, hi, my name is Doug.
I work at the shownies on route nine.
I'm the line cook and my ship starts at seven PM.

(01:13:03):
I mean, is what I would not be telling you these things if my intentions weren't good.
Which is like a whole other weird element, right?
I wouldn't be telling you these things if my intentions weren't good.
No, no, you're clearly telling me because you're insane.
I'm going to roll the clip.

(01:13:27):
You look familiar to me.
what way?
I don't know.
Your face looks familiar to me.
Arlen has seen him before.
I guess I have a confession to make.
We did.
about two years ago.
And I often wondered what would happen to Arlen Page.
And here you are.

(01:13:49):
Yeah.
All right.
So as an aside, in this moment, we have to talk about the cinematography.
So the intensity of what we're hearing is one thing, but the cinematography isspectacular.
And this is a moment where I am 100 percent confident that this is why Jane Fonda won thebest actress for a Best Actress Oscar that year.

(01:14:19):
Absolutely great.
So the shot goes back and forth from the murderer and there's single perspective shots,right?
They're standing next to each other, but it goes to his face.
Then it goes to her face and she's off center in the frame and she's realizing what is onthis tape as it's playing and her face conveys as much.

(01:14:43):
So I'm gonna continue the clip real quick.
and the crying right now.
It's okay.
Just freak me out for a minute, that's all.

(01:15:03):
I promise to drive you back.
Why don't you just tell me what you like and then after you tell me what you'd like.
I'd like to spend just some time with you.
I have been looking for you for two years.
Why?
That's my business.

(01:15:24):
I've been looking for you for two years.
Mind your business.
It's my business, not yours.
So, my God, it is.
This speech is the penultimate villain monologuing, in my opinion.
It's he's absolutely right.
He's laid out everything.

(01:15:44):
He has said exactly who he was, where he works, where he's from, tells her he's beenlooking for her.
is like, yeah, have a confession we've met before.
And she's like, yeah, you're the dude that beat me up.
And yet somehow you can tell on the tape she's trying to keep her cool.
And then she's like, why are you looking for me?
And he says, none of your business.
It's insane.

(01:16:04):
I mean, it's insane.
There's no other description.
While the tape is playing, Jane Fonda's reacting.
She's giving two performances.
She's giving you the mourning of her friend, but also
how terrified she is in that moment.
I will go with three.
And also the dread of what she knows she's about to hear.

(01:16:27):
And it's all being conveyed in her face.
And also the crying, it's not audible, but it's visceral.
It's like in her face, like there's no other way to say it.
She's also snotting, right?
Like it's real.
Like it's not like, it's not a tearjerker.
No, this- But in the literal sense, there's not like the cream that's under your eyelidsto induce crying.

(01:16:51):
She's acting.
Yeah.
She is crying in real life.
This is aggressive.
It is terrifying to watch.
Because like you said, there's layers of what is happening emotionally.
And the fear is you feel it.
You just, you feel it.
And it couldn't possibly be shot better.

(01:17:11):
No.
we go.

(01:17:45):
I'll not strap you in.
I'll not tell you.
my God.
The amount of shaking that Jane Fonda is doing in this moment.
And as you said before, it's completely silent.
Her crying and it's just.
man, I, I don't know that I want to continue rolling the clip because it's we're rightback there.

(01:18:06):
Like when we were watching it, right?
Like, yeah, yeah, it's a really incredible moment.
I agree with you 1000 %
This is the scene where the Academy was like, I don't think there's anybody else to givethis Best Actress Award to you.
I don't think so.
Let me see who else was nominated with her.

(01:18:27):
Ooh, solid question.
Because yeah, she's, my God.
I you know, I also have to say that I'm of an age too where, you know, if Jane Fonda was,
was disgusted in my family, you know, when I was a teenager, she was never brought up asan actress.

(01:18:52):
She was always brought up as an activist.
Yeah, we'll definitely get to that.
Yeah.
Yeah, we're definitely gonna some time there.
And her in this moment, for me was very much a, that's right.
This is what she did first.
This was her job.
This is what she did first.
Yeah, she was she was an actress before she was an activist.

(01:19:15):
This was her job and she's amazing at it.
This was the thing she literally did 18 times before.
Yes, exactly.
And you're like, my God.
She ever gave a dollar to the Black Panthers.
Exactly.
Exactly.
my God.
Yeah.
And she's yeah.
OK, so in my pursuit of not looking up longshoremen, I found that the best actress thatyear was.

(01:19:39):
The nominees for best actress that year were Glenda Jackson for Sunday Bloody Sunday,Julie Christie for McCabe and Mrs.
Janet Sussman for Nicholas and Alexandra, and Vanessa Redgrave for Mary Queen of Scots.
you know, I can't...
I don't think I've seen any of those films.
I've seen a couple of them.

(01:20:00):
Okay.
I'm sure we're gonna cover a few of them on the show, but I will say that just off the topof my head, I don't think...
there's this moment.
No, I feel like it was, I don't think it was close.
I don't feel like, no.
Yeah.
I don't feel like maybe there was some weighing of, I think it's pretty much like, yeah,no, this is not.

(01:20:22):
It's Jane's.
This is Jane's award.
Right.
Because of this moment, I think you're absolutely right.
But I guess this is the moment where Klute comes in, swoops in.
We're not sure how he.
We don't.
Yeah.
How does he know where she is?
We're not sure.
does Jean Stapleton tell him?
Cause I know she makes a cameo.
Edith Bunker.

(01:20:42):
That's right.
Edith Bunker was the secretary in this weird dry cleaning looking garment district where,warehouse, building.
I don't know if she tells him, I can't remember, but somehow he magically shows up and youhave to admit as far as a bad guy dying scene.

(01:21:03):
This is a little artsy because Klute basically busts in the room and Peter Cable, our badguy, just almost seems so startled that somebody else is there that he sort of jumps
backwards.
And apparently there was some real shoddy building work in that office because heliterally smashes a window and falls out backwards.

(01:21:30):
Whoopsie.
could be wrong if you're going to smack into, know, mean, probably single pain.
is pre energy saving windows, double paint, trip, whatever.
but still I would have expected him to like smack his head, crack the glass, knock himselfout something.
No, he full on goes through the window.

(01:21:52):
And the thing is, I think that this is a period of filmmaking where this happens a lot.
We're like,
the detours into the characters psyche, there's a lot more time spent, you know, budgetedfor that than there is the climactic ending of the movie or even, the plot at all.

(01:22:13):
Right.
Right.
Like it just like, okay, no, we want to delve into, it's more of a character study in thesense that like, no, I want to know this person and take all these like twists and turns
with this person.
But the actual plot.
the actual thing happening to her is almost an afterthought.
Yes.

(01:22:33):
I don't think that's exclusive to Klute.
There's a lot of films like that.
know not to be not to be a teaser, not to be that guy, but we're to be covering one ofthose next week, too.
yes.
Yes.
I feel like we'll probably talk about it a little bit more next week, too, because it issomething that kind of is a little bit of a movie pet peeve of mine.

(01:22:56):
You can't skimp on those moments.
You got to give those energy as well.
I mean, I suppose in its own way though, it is kind of funny when you just bust throughthe window backwards like an idiot.
Like, whoops.
I'm sure that happens.
so shocked.
Yeah.
Right, you know, like, well, I had a plan.
Where did that get me?

(01:23:18):
I had a plan, but I slipped on this cable.
Right.
And that was that.
There was a banana peel here.
And I was wearing my poor people shoes.
I slipped in my dancing shoes.
So our bad guy dies.
Thank goodness Bree is alive.

(01:23:39):
But we already, but we also know that Arlen's dead.
We know our missing guy.
Have we even said his name?
Do we know what our missing guy's name is?
Missing guy.
I mean, cause I just feel like that's all we've called him is missing guy.
So we assume at this point we know
Well, we know he's dead.
just, you know, yeah, we're just like, now he's dead.
He's definitely dead.

(01:23:59):
So now Klute has to go back home, which I believe missing guy was a resident ofPennsylvania as well.
Yes.
So now he has to return to the wife and say like, hey, that letter was fake.
Your husband maybe was probably not living a double life.
He was just murdered by his boss.
which is weird because he could have just fired him and not given him unemployment likeevery other boss.

(01:24:25):
now.
But he went a different way.
because he found out about his prostitution.
That's the motivation behind the murder was he, this poor bastard became aware of hisboss's prostitute problem.
Addiction.
Right.
Hobby.

(01:24:45):
Fetish.
I mean.
if you can call attempted murder a hobby.
mean, arguably, I suppose it could be for some.
I mean, it's not making macaroni ducks, it's, you know, it's.
Hey, you know.
To each their each their own.
Yeah.
So Klute asks Bree to come with him.
I'm assuming there was a conversation, but you see that they're leaving together and thather apartment is packed up.

(01:25:14):
She communicates that she's about to leave, but then she gets a phone call and we'reassuming it's from one of her agents.
Yes.
And she answers the phone and you can see this quick little moment where she slips backinto Bree the escort and is like, hey, looks over at Klute and is like, yeah, I'm so

(01:25:39):
sorry.
I don't think I'll be able to see you.
to the guy or gal or whoever the potential client is on the phone.
So sorry, don't think I can do it, gotta go.
And she's like, how is Roy or something to that effect.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, how is he?
But you're right, there is a weird moment of hesitation where it's such second nature forher to be like, yeah, I'm gonna go out on a job and then to turn around and be like, no,

(01:26:08):
I'm not going out on a job.
I'm moving to Pennsylvania with Mike Brady.
And also, right.
But also you get the distinct feeling that whatever is about to happen in their future,it's not going to work out.
Yes.
Because their personalities couldn't be more different.
It's not like it doesn't become a fun prostitute movie like Dr.

(01:26:29):
Detroit or Night Shift or Pretty Woman or any of those.
No.
flicks.
No, it's not.
It's not that kind of romp.
No.
It very much feels doomed.
as they walk out the door.
No hooker with a heart of gold.
None of that.
None of that, no.
None of that.

(01:26:50):
But you know what?
I would like to look at this film through the merciless lens of the present day in asegment I like to call Devon upon reflection.
So usually in this segment, and I say usually even though this is episode one, but is asegment that I would like to reserve for things that don't hold up in film today.

(01:27:19):
And it's usually things of maybe a racist nature or think that, know, but those thingscould be period correct or, know, but this would be the place for conversations like that,
right?
Not just like, well, this doesn't hold up because the cell phone.
wasn't invented, right?
Or this doesn't hold up because this could have been solved with a DNA test.

(01:27:45):
Or if it's the Warriors, like, you could have taken cost service.
It's not like that.
Right, right.
What I would like to point out is something you brought up earlier is Jane Fonda in thismoment with that haircut.
And yes, those same clothes because she walked off the set with a lot of them.

(01:28:06):
become the iconic photos or the iconic look seen in the photos during the height of heractivism because right here is the ground zero of her activism.
While she's filming Kloot, the Cambodia bombing is outed.
A month after she's cast, Kent State happens.

(01:28:28):
So these are all the things that are informing who she becomes as a person fresh out ofher divorce as well.
Right?
So she becomes someone who takes up the cause of the Black Panthers very much against thefamously against the Vietnam War.
And I know that you could speak to that a little bit as well.

(01:28:50):
yeah, for sure.
I would say we both definitely, I think, grew up in that era where we come from familieswhere we weren't old enough to know about these things when they happened.
But when they were discussed in our households after the fact, because I think we bothcame from very politically active families, these types of things were discussed.

(01:29:16):
And when they were discussed, literally, I remember as a teenager, her being referred toas Hanoi Jane.
I mean, that's for And said with the most contempt that one can convey with their face.
Right.
You know, and also,
feeling like I wasn't allowed to enjoy nine to five, you know, even though I'm like, I'm ayoung lady.

(01:29:42):
I like some girls kicking by.
third of that equation was somehow poisoned.
Yes, as if a third of that equation was somehow poisoned.
Exactly.
Like you really shouldn't watch that.
No, no, I think it's, I think it's fine.
But yeah, very much.
You're, right.
As she's coming into this movie, as she's filming this,

(01:30:04):
she's having these big changes in her life.
There's actually a fantastic interview from a few years back where she talks about thefilming of Clu.
And one of the things she discusses is that post her divorce, she had gone to India kindof on a sabbatical and actually said, came back.

(01:30:25):
was like the beginning of me being radicalized.
And that's when I came back and shooting this.
was right when she was truly starting to become a feminist and how much that helped playinto and give weight to her character and how she acted the part.
But as you said, then also became the lady that was called Hanoi Jane in my household.

(01:30:47):
Now, here's the thing.
A lot of younger people would have no context for this because I know that you think yourweird uncle hates people like AOC.
I know you think your weird uncle
could muster up some pretty hateful words about Nancy Pelosi.
The hatred for Jane Fonda was generational.

(01:31:08):
Like it was something you handed down to your children.
Like it was something like her name was said with a contempt you can't even muster in yourown like you all the acting school in the world.
You could not muster the contempt that some of our relatives has said her name with.
And I can't stress that enough.

(01:31:29):
If I'm being
a little fair or trying to see it from their perspective?
Well, Vietnam, it's a, can't relate to that, right?
Like I can't relate to the debate around Vietnam.
I was like born, right?
When it started, was like, I was like three when it was over.
My biological father was there, right?

(01:31:50):
He typed, he typed in Vietnam, but he typed bravely.
Sorry.
But.
True story, like when he types, like I could hear the CCR song playing in the background.
like, I mean, I know he does in his head, but you got to remember, not only was she anactress, she's the daughter of Henry Fonda.

(01:32:17):
She was seen as what we would call today a nephew baby, right?
Like someone who was handed her career.
And all of sudden this actress,
this rich person is now taking up these causes at the same time.
I believe I think it's around the same time the essay that Thomas Wolf writes in the NewYorker comes out and it's called a radical chic and it's a wild thing.

(01:32:46):
So what happens is there's a party by Leonard Bernstein throws a party, but it's afundraiser for the Black Panthers and Thomas Wolf who is a southern gentleman who
I think he went to Yale.
He's a very satirical writer.
Brilliant, beyond belief.
Brilliant writer.
Begins writing for the New Yorker.
He catches word of this party and sneaks in and reports what he sees.

(01:33:10):
Now, if you are of a certain political, you know, if you're sitting on one side of thepolitical fence, this could be seen as the ground zero or the origin or the outbreak
monkey of the
the story of like the Hollywood liberal elite, right?
Because now they're raising money for Black Panthers, but they needed money.

(01:33:35):
I get really like to, so it's, so it's kind of, it's kind of wild because like these, theBlack Panthers were also fighting for civil rights.
So it's like, it's one of those things that were, that lands in a really weird area whenyou try to see it from all sides, right?
We are like, this, who's this rich person thinks she is?
Well, she's actually,

(01:33:56):
helping the cause of civil rights is who she is.
But you could definitely understand the prejudice about her, though I would argue that in1971, and I think it's probably still very true today, I don't think the same criticisms
would be levied at an actor, like man.

(01:34:16):
agreed.
Absolutely.
Yeah, definitely agree there.
If I'm looking through that lens, when I'm thinking about Clu,
I'm thinking about today's climate, but also the climate of that period, which there youcan draw parallels from, you can make comparisons to.

(01:34:36):
I think that that history is baked in the cake of the film, as well as, you know, what thefilm is, that the paranoia of that time is baked into the film.
And you didn't necessarily need scenes with surveillance to capture that.
Absolutely.
The other legacy at this point is realizing there really wasn't truly, as you say, anyactor or actress at this point that really was politically active.

(01:35:09):
I truly, not that they weren't at all, but not really in any real way at that point.
mean, this is not that far post-studio era, right?
So this is very much- This is the studio era.
This is like New Hollywood, right?
So feel like we're like in the, at the beginning of New Hollywood where directors havemore say and they have more control over the projects.

(01:35:35):
And part of the aspect of the studio era was a story was created for you as a person.
And if your personal life didn't fit into what they wanted, it didn't matter.
You just kept that to yourself and then they made a storyline for you, right?
I mean, how many stories come out now about who was homosexual, who had a baby out ofwedlock, right?

(01:35:57):
So these are all things.
And who, who was the lady that went through some weird process of adopting her old child?
So when it looked like she'd had this baby via an affair, right?
So like all of that kind of thing, but we're, we can make any horny political film.
Right, I'm No, no, it's like, but.

(01:36:18):
But you get to here and you get to this point where you have somebody that says, you know,and Jane Fonda, I have an opinion.
I've done my homework.
I've done a bit of research.
I have an opinion and I have a voice and I have a platform and I'm going to use it.
And I think now we're so accustomed to that just being a thing that happens.

(01:36:41):
You are a celebrity and if you choose to, you will use that platform politically.
And it just,
wasn't remotely that common.
And as you said, particularly from a woman.
And I would argue that her activism is 1000 % sincere.

(01:37:01):
Whereas as we venture down the road of, and nothing about the show is gonna bechronological.
So at some point, I imagine as we hit things like The Godfather and things, you're gonnasee some wild shit.
In terms of activism gone awry.

(01:37:22):
So, you know, there's that.
You can look forward to that fun stuff.
But yeah, upon reflection, this is the ground.
This is the period where Jane Fonda is radical Jane Fonda, and she couldn't look goddamnbetter doing it.
Damn right.
So yes, upon reflection, I would say Jane Fonda

(01:37:48):
was a balls out human being.
Balls out sounds sexist.
a little bit.
Save me, Devon, I'm being sexist.
I can't.
I'm making a woman bail me out, too.
I just can't.
I'm drowning in sexism.
We have to go before I do something more sexist.

(01:38:09):
All right.
Agreed.
Agreed.
Thank you for.
I'm a Roman candle of sexism.
All right, and on that note, thank you for joining us everyone and we will see you nextweek.
Kaboom!
Studio Property is mixed at Spillway Street Content in Red Hook, NY and syndicated onRadio Free Reinkliff.

(01:38:30):
Theme song by The Corner Bodega.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on Instagram at Studio Property Show.
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week.
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Klute (1971)

Stuff You Should Know