The American Friend (1977)

 

 

Dear Diane, the world is less interesting now.

First and foremost, we talked about David Lynch a little at the very end of this episode. Here’s the rub - this show was taped the night before the world learned that Lynch let death talk him into leaving us. We will address this next week but know that both of us adore Lynch’s work and were heartbroken to learn that he is no longer with us. We hope both David Lynch and Death are laughing together while keeping each other company.

As for this episode, it is very different. Doug turned the phone lines off again so he could vomit out every behind the scenes story he knew about this movie. We get into our love for cinematographer, Robby Muller and even tacked on another Dennis Hopper story “after the credits” for good measure. Also, thinking we had extra time, we took the “Let’s Franchise This, Baby” segment to a whole other level so don’t get all weird about the runtime. It’s a packed show. Anyway, there’s a fast forward thingie right there on the player if you get bored, Susan.

 

Enjoy the show!

 

Our Link Tree :

https://linktr.ee/studiopropertyshow

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
You're listening to Radio Free Reinkliffe.
Welcome to Studio Property, the cinema broadcast for people like you.
We're your clapboard cousins.
I'm Doug Wartell.
And I'm Devin Irby.
And this week we're discussing the American friend, or should I say odor, derAmerikanische Freund circa 1977.

(00:27):
Wait, what's it called in German?
it called?
Der Amerikanische Freund.
And of course it's directed by Vim Vendors, who as I have now learned is Ernest WilhelmVendors, AKA Vim Vendors.
I feel like you just dug all up in his past.

(00:48):
Like there's a reason people use aliases.
I've been taking German lessons for a little while now.
Vim is never a name that I've heard at any of my little practice books.
How do you say please mind your business in German?
please mind your business.
That is not.
That's definitely his middle name.
Okay, think you're right.
I will work on that for next week.

(01:10):
Because I'm a Bim Bender's fan and I had no idea that that was me.
just was like, oh yeah, of course his name was Bim.
That's what they name their kids over there.
No joke right now.
I'm reading, honestly, this book has got to be from the 50s or 60s about Einstein.
Why?
Is there a lot of racism in it?
No, it's just really, no, the book is like really old.

(01:30):
I read a book on Mozart and now I'm a book on Einstein.
And my teacher, my tutor keeps apologizing and she's like, I'm so sorry if the science isboring.
I'm like, the science isn't boring.
It's just double hard because I don't understand it in English, let alone German.
But you're hopping those hurdles.
I am.
working on them.
I'm working on would not.

(01:51):
I'd be frozen there like this.
Like, wouldn't say I'm hopping.
I am painfully crawling over top of those hurdles because it's been really hard.
But yes, so back to our friend Vim, Vim Vendas.
And then of course, then he's got his cinematographer, which I cannot say in German,Robbie Mueller.

(02:15):
Mueller?
I just call him Robbie Mueller.
Robbie Mueller?
I guess it's Robbie Mueller.
Well, yeah, it looks like Mueller, but the U does have an umlaut.
So it'd be U-ler.
I know somebody out there is gonna- it's spelled M, Motley Crue U, L-L-E-R.
That is correct.
And as, I know somebody out there is going to be like, she didn't enough.

(02:37):
Cause yeah, Motley crew you is.
That's a YouTube comment I've not yet gotten.
I've not yet read that on anyone else's channel either.
All right.
Well, somebody is going to be like, hope so.
Stupid American girl can't pronounce things correctly.
Well, I'm going to read some copy here because it can be a very different episode thanwe've ever done before.

(02:58):
Cause I've been so excited to do this movie.
Cause I mentioned before.
it's a shatter point for me.
This is like the, the film, probably actually, Wings of Desire, maybe first, and then thisone is where I actually fell in love with cinema itself, not just Vim's work, or what's
his real name again?
Willhelm.
Ernest Willhelm.
Ernest Willhelm Vindas.

(03:19):
Which means Wilbur, right?
That's Wilbur.
Yeah, I think so, probably.
Probably something like Wilbur.
Yeah, mean, wow, what a deep dive we're about to do.
So I'm gonna read some copy right here, just to calm my own nerves.
Read it to me.
The American Friend is about getting out of your murderous business obligations bytricking a terminally ill stranger into doing them for you.
The movie has more in common with Blade Runner than, Ripley's Game, much to the chagrin ofthe book's author, who gave director Wim Bender his first crack at the then-unpublished

(03:49):
manuscript.
Dennis Hopper and Bruno Gans share top billing on this picture, but the real star is thecinematography of Robbie...
Me...
Mueller.
Mueller.
Umlauts, who frankly should have entire temples built in his honor, specifically by thehands of film Twitter kids sporting A24 t-shirts.

(04:14):
Because you know what, you can't imagine how many LUT presets in your editing software areactually replications of something Robbie Mueller did with an analog camera, natural
light, and the circumstances of a given shooting day.
He invented a brand new way to create a film noir atmosphere.
And he did this by leaning on the help of the background players of our 64 pack of Crayolacrayons with the sharpener on the back.

(04:41):
I'm talking about Aquamarine, Mulberry, Thistle, and Indian Red, who all make welcomecameos during a suspenseful murder scene most fans of modern action films would likely
check their phones to.
But regardless,
This is not just one of my favorite films of all time.
It's one of your favorite director's favorite films of all time.

(05:06):
And I can't wait to get to it.
Devin hit the theme song.
God damn it!
You
So that studio property, your studio property, hey!

(05:26):
Shut your mouth.
Okay, at this point after that intro, all I wanna know is what do we call Indian Rednowadays?
It's definitely not Indian Red anymore, right?
No, it's probably like brick red.
Oh, that could be.

(05:47):
Maybe it's brick red.
Or cinnamon.
Maybe it's cinnamon.
Maybe it's cinnamon.
But we have to talk about this movie, The American Friend.
The American Friend is based on Ripley's game, which is the third of Patricia Highsmith'sTom Ripley books.
The most famous of course being the talented Mr.

(06:07):
Ripley, which has had, and it's had several versions made of it.
Ripley's game has had several versions made of it, but there are five books and they'reknown as the Ripley ad, which somehow makes me giggle.
Cause I think it's very pretentious.
My favorite kind of pretentious.
And the basic storyline is, or let me clarify.

(06:28):
I mean, it's not even half-assed pretentious.
it's full pretentious.
It's full on ramp.
yeah.
Over the shark.
yeah.
Lands clean.
yeah.
Leather jacket.
Hawaiian shorts.
100 percent.
100 percent.
So I'm going to clarify as in how I'm going to describe the plot line is based on themovie's take on this story, which is obviously slightly varied from the book.

(06:52):
OK, so the movie's take on the story is our protagonist, sociopath Tom Ridley, has an artscam going in the art scam.
is essentially there was an artist that he knew, a painter that he knew, who faked his owndeath and still paints.
And then they basically sell, he sells paintings, which are in fact by the correct artistthat supposedly should be rare now because he's dead, but they're new.

(07:25):
So it's like a whole thing.
Not for nothing, not for nothing.
Pretty great scheme.
I mean, it is a pretty brilliant scheme.
I mean, no joke.
And of course I have to say as a complete aside the artist he's so weird Which is exactlywhat I would expect from a painter who has faked his own death to make some money but also

(07:46):
he's he's kind of living in squalor a little bit and Clearly still getting jipped by TomRipley though because Ripley's clearly not giving him even a fraction of what he's making
off of this art, which we learn Like the second scene of the film
Right, which takes place in Hamburg, Germany, where these paintings are being sold.

(08:07):
So essentially, while we're at the first auction, where we get an idea of what ishappening, we meet an art restorer slash art framer by the name of Yonathan Zimmerman.
And Yonathan.
Played by one Bruno Gans.
Famously who played Hitler.

(08:28):
And anytime anything goes down on the internet and you see that one Hitler clip.
from the downfall that is Bruno Gantz, right?
And also he was in Wings of Desire.
was a character.
which is on our list here coming up.
We are going to be watching.
Yeah.
Wings of Desire.
I'm very excited too.
So yes.

(08:48):
So poor Bruno Gantz slash Yonathan Zimmerman makes the mistake of insulting Tom Ripleyduring this auction.
So then we progress to our friend, sociopathic Tom Ripley, who has a
As he's known on the street.
Yeah.
As he's known on the streets.
Yeah.
And he is obviously friends with the criminal element, specifically a criminal namedReeves Meneau.

(09:13):
And Reeves says, hey, Tom, I need you to kill someone for me.
You owe me.
And Tom's like, honestly, this just seems like an unnecessary murder.
And I only murder when it feels necessary.
So no, thank you.
However, I know this guy.
And I kind of think we can sucker him into doing the murder for you.

(09:34):
Because at the auction he learned that guy had a terminal blood disease.
Exactly.
Which is not clearly said, but sounds like more than likely he has leukemia.
Right.
So yeah.
So basically they kinda, Tom sends up, sets up sort of this weird little elaborate game,IE Ripley's game, where he basically makes Yonathan believe that

(10:00):
His doctor is lying to him and that he's in worse shape than he thinks he is and that he'sdying very soon.
And since he's not somebody who's very wealthy and he wants to leave his wife and child,by the way, we see a lot of little child in the film and he's adorable.
And it's clear that Yonathan loves his kid.
And you know, if you've listened to our show at all, you know, I love an adorable child ina film and his name is Daniel, little Daniel.

(10:25):
Little Daniel, he's so cute.
So basically what they've done is because they've made Yonah Fim think that he is going tobe dying very soon.
Well, at this point, he at least suspects it.
Yes, he suspects it.

(10:46):
So it allows our criminal- power of rumor, which in 1976.
And of course, this is pre-internet, folks, so the rumor is working.
So, you know, he doesn't really have a good way of checking up on it.
So the rumor is working.
And so our criminal friend, Reeves Minow, basically is like, hi, I have a proposal, whichis I will pay you a lot of money to murder someone for me.

(11:08):
And that'll leave your wife and child in good shape when you die, because we all knowyou're dying soon.
but just to make sure you feel good about it, I will send you to the American hospital inParis to a very good doctor just to double check that you're actually dying soon.
So, Jonathan, he's like, don't want to murder anyone.

(11:30):
At the American hospital in Paris, because that is high-falutely medical service he'd begetting.
Precisely.
Primo.
Precisely.
So, of course, he goes to Paris, he gets this primo healthcare.
The problem is, he gets primo healthcare, but then our friend, Beno fakes the results andis like, oh my God, you're should totally kill this guy for You should totally take this

(11:54):
job.
For Which translates to how much in today's world?
$1.5 million.
I think it's like 1.37, specifically.
It's like, yeah, $1,375,000, something like that.
Which is almost 1.5, right?
But if you think you got two months to live and you want to leave your kid and your wifesomething before you cut out, you're going to take the opportunity to get this one, get

(12:21):
this nut and bounce.
All of our listeners can say, have high morals and I wouldn't do it, but you'd allseriously think about it.
Yeah, but you know what?
They're listening to a cinema podcast.
I bet you they think they have high morals.
That's true.
They probably do.
They definitely think so.
But I'm telling you.
must be cool for you.
That must be cool for you.
Yeah, to be.
Yeah.

(12:42):
But I'm still convinced that quietly you're all like, I'd consider.
I might say no, but I think about it.
But our poor friend, Yonathan, ends up saying yes.
because he thinks it's the eventually.
like at first he says no, he resists a while.
he resists.
And so, yes.
Long enough for you guys listening to feel comfortable.

(13:02):
Yes, and I would agree with that, and I liked that.
It was really a no until he really felt like.
He had no other choice.
He had no other choice, yeah, until he had no other choice.
So yes, he murders someone.
Now this is the first time you've seen this film.
Yes.
Which is really exciting for me.

(13:23):
It was exciting for me too, because I know it's one of your all time favorites.
And so was so excited.
Yeah.
I was super excited to see it.
Would you agree that the main character of the film is its own atmosphere?
199%.
Yes.
The atmosphere of this film was utterly magnificent.

(13:43):
And I found, I can tell you the exact moment I knew I was just in it and it wasn'tnecessarily.
Dennis Hopper or Bruno Gens was absolutely the atmosphere, the way it was shot, the waythe whole thing played out.
I was absolutely sucked in.
It was so good.
Now, to talk about Robbie a little bit more, because I only learned this in the last fiveor six years that Robbie Mueller had shot every one of the impactful films that at a

(14:12):
certain time period, it was just the right time, right place, a specific batch of movies.
came out throughout the years, not just in one decade or two, but it was a specific kindof cinema being made that I had no idea he himself was shooting by himself, right?
Yeah.
He shot Kings of the Road, which is another Vin Vendors movie.

(14:34):
He shot Repo Man, one of my all-time favorite movies.
Down by Law, Jim Jarmusch movie with Tom Waits.
Paris, Texas, which is incredible, right?
Another Vin vendors movie, Dead Man with Johnny Depp, Barfly, Mickey Rourke, Faye Dunaway.
That's an incredible film.

(14:54):
I believe that's a canon movie, which we'll have a conversation about soon.
Mystery Train, Breaking the Waves, in that Bjork movie.
He shot that Bjork movie too.
Which I'm sure was beautiful.
I'm sure it was beautiful.
I never saw it either, I didn't see it either.
Yeah, I did not.

(15:15):
He also shot Ghost Dog.
What?
Really?
He shot Ghost Dog.
Yeah, he shot Ghost Dog and he also shot the, I don't know if you remember this, this isgoing way back, the breakdancing movie with Lorenzo Lamas.
Really?
Yeah, he shot Body Rock.
Yeah, he shot that weird art house movie about breakdancing.

(15:36):
Which honestly, know it's not, it's not on our upcoming.
It's not our production list.
will never be on our upcoming.
I might wear you down and be like, let's do it.
Let's do body rock.
already have April fools day booked.
So, so, and not this year, was going to say maybe April fools day next year we can doparty rock.

(16:00):
So Robbie Mueller, just to go over his track record a little bit.
He, he's one three.
NSFC awards for best cinematography for German film awards for the same to and NYFCCawards and a Bavarian film award and that was just for Paris, Texas and he's gotten 11
other nominations.

(16:20):
That still doesn't seem enough.
Well, the influence that he would have on us later and also the documentary that's abouthim, which is available on Amazon.
I can't recommend because it's terrible.
Really?
Yeah, it looks like it was just like thrown together as an afterthought.
that makes me sad.
Yeah, it's awful, unfortunately.

(16:43):
Was he ever nominated for an Oscar?
No.
That seems really wrong and disappointing.
But I also feel like as much as I enjoy the Oscars, they continue to disappoint me.
Like they can continuously disappoint me.
Since the year, since the English patient year, they've been- I would agree with that.
At least suspect.

(17:04):
At least suspect.
Like everything's questionable since then.
They've only had like a- Reality, I think, became questionable right about then.
Yeah, I'd agree with that.
I'd agree with that.
But I'm gonna tell you a story.
Okay.
You know I love a good story.
About how this filming of this movie began.
you know, John Cassavetes was originally cast to be Ripley.

(17:29):
And he couldn't do it.
For whatever reason, can speculate 76, Mikey and Nicky's about to come out.
Whatever he's about to shoot next, I don't remember the chronological order, so I'm notgonna just say things on microphones.
But I will say that he definitely recommended Dennis Hopper.
Now we're gonna play a little game called Imagine You're the Boss Man.

(17:53):
Imagine you're the employer.
You are the director of a film that is about to start shooting.
You have to pick up the star of your film who you know is coming from another set.
But what you don't know is that he's coming directly from another set.
And also because the film he's shooting doesn't come out for another three years becauseof its own drama, right?

(18:21):
You don't even understand what you're about to see in front of you.
But as I reported to you, Devin, not only do I think you'll get it, but the audience.
will understand where Dennis Hopper had come from.
Okay.
He gets off the plane already on drugs.
He had, had taken a whole bunch of drugs on the plane, right?
All right.

(18:41):
All right.
He's disoriented when he gets off the plane in, uh, wearing, uh, army fatigues.
He's unshaven.
has long unwashed hair.
That's like tied up in a bandana.
Vim described him as smelling like he hadn't showered in days.

(19:03):
Okay.
Right.
He has beads around his neck.
and nine prop cameras.
Does that sound familiar to you?
familiar to me.
Yeah.
He also, and this will bring it on home, is covered in jungle sores that are stillbleeding.
Lord.

(19:23):
OK.
For those of you who don't know, Dennis Hopper literally came off of the set of ApocalypseNow, did not go back to his trail, did not pack.
He got he went right to the airport, still in his costume.
when he arrives at Hamburg to be greeted by Vim Vendors.

(19:46):
That's insane.
I just...
He's limited.
Again, another one of those limited edition people that, you know, it's both good and bad.
They're never going to make another one.
No.
Needless to say, upon seeing him, Vim immediately admitted Dennis Hopper into a hospitalso he can get cleaned up, get the jungle sores taken care of and rehydrated from all the

(20:09):
drugs he had taken.
Phew.
Yeah, so production was a little delayed to say the least.
I'm sure everybody on set was a little perturbed.
I've never shown up to a job like that, but it wanted to.
God, agreed.
So what is the scene you'd most like to talk about?

(20:30):
easy.
The first hit.
It's after Yonathan has gone to Paris and after the whole hospital thing and he's beentold.
with his fake test results, you're gonna die next week, basically.
Do this hit.
And so the whole sequence of him essentially getting through his first ever murder.

(20:52):
You made it sound like a baby book.
I did kind of make it sound like a baby book.
like, you know, he got through his first, we got through his first little murder.
First little murder.
Yeah.
And now he's wearing underwear, no more diapers.
But that's kind of how that sequence played out to me.
Two things, one, it is how it played out to me.
First, that was the moment I understood your love for Robbie Mueller because that entiresequence is 100 % visual.

(21:23):
So for anybody who hasn't actually seen the movie yet, there's no music, there's no realdialogue.
It is completely visual.
I mean, there is sound, but it's completely visual.
Well, there's a little it's sparse.
The music is there, but it's very sparse.
And who composed the music again?
Really quick because.
Jürgen Niebuhr.

(21:45):
It looks like his name is mine.
What?
OK, I don't know if he's German.
It actually kind of looks like maybe he's Scandinavian.
like how do you spell it?
Jürgen is J U with a numlaut R G E N.
So it's J Motley Crue U.
R G E N.

(22:05):
Right.
Okay.
Last name.
Here's the thing where this, like I said, I don't know if he's German or if he'sScandinavian because it's K N I E P E R.
And I think as English speakers, want to say neaper, but I think it might be a knipperbecause a lot.
I, that would sounds more fun.

(22:26):
is a lot more fun.
I would go with a knipper because I believe the K is
frequently pronounced when it's a K and I think it's frequently pronounced in a lot of theScandinavian languages.
So it's not always where is in English the case.
I wish the case silent because apparently at some point English speakers were like,listen, I don't have time for that.

(22:48):
Mind your business.
I don't have time for that.
Stand down and the Dutch were like, no, we keep it.
It's Knieper.
You don't tell Kay what to do.
It's got to kickstand.
That's perfect balance.
It's the consonant that looks like it's about to do karate, which is also spelled with aK.
That's description of the letter K I've ever heard.

(23:09):
Looks like it's about to do karate.
I'm doing word association gymnastics right now because I'm my coffee, which is fromHawaii.
He's aggressively caffeinated right now, folks.
Aggressively caffeinated.
Yes, I very much am.
So our friend Juergen Kniep did the music.
But you're right.
His score does not hit you over the head.

(23:31):
It's subtle.
It works.
Well, the thing is it's doing a duet with the camera work.
Yes, it is.
One scene doesn't, there's no cross dissolves into next scenes.
No.
Sometimes scenes feel like they're almost end too short.
Yes, yes.
There are moments where the film feels like it's skipping because it's like, and it's kindof jarring, but it's intentional.

(23:56):
Right.
Because it asks you to sort of be a fly on the wall and not really be invested.
That's a really interesting approach.
Yeah, it's an interesting approach, but it's also a really good description.
Cuz you do feel slightly removed.
You've taken a step back.
And that's a nice way to see such an absurd, intense story.

(24:19):
Cuz it is absurd and intense.
Because this idea of you have a chronic illness that is likely going to kill you.
in the somewhat near future.
And now you've been tricked into thinking it's going to happen almost immediately.
And the only way you can take care of your family is to murder someone.
That is absurd.
That is absurd.

(24:40):
And that is, there's a reason the book is called Ripley's Game.
Cause it's chess.
It's aggressive manipulation of people's emotions.
By the way, I didn't know if you knew this, but every criminal in the film, including theartist, by the way, is an act, is a director.
What vendors did that on purpose?

(25:00):
Yeah, because you know, Dennis Hopper is also a director.
Oh, I really didn't realize that.
So who are incredible Dennis Hopper film, by the way, before we even get to it that hedirected, if you ever get an opportunity to see the movie out of the blue, it's a
character piece.
It's a slow burn, but definitely incredible.
It did one one, I believe, like the Sundance Award at the time, 1980.

(25:22):
Great movie.
It also was the movie that got him the gig on.
colors, I believe.
Okay.
By recommendation of Sean Penn and Madonna, who had seen Out of the Blue.
Fun fact there.
But yeah, the directors were Gerard Blaine, Samuel Fuller, Peter Lilienthal, DanielSchmid, and Nicholas Ray.

(25:44):
And I want to say John Estache.
He played a friendly Frenchman in that film.
But I'm not sure I pronounced any of those things right.
Good enough for me.
Or as Grandpa Irby would say,
good enough for government work.
Let's dive into this hit.
So we can't play a clip.
No, we cannot play a clip because he's no audio.

(26:06):
There's no dialogue.
We could have lied.
We could have been like, and here's the clip.
Oh, that's funny.
So our hit, our criminal friend has essentially tried to get Yonathan.
He kind of talks him through it.
This is what's going to happen.
We've figured it out and the guy that we need you to murder.
The best way to do it is on the Parisian subway on his way to work.

(26:31):
And you want to do it between this stop and this stop.
They show him a photo.
And of course he's like, I can't, one photo isn't going to help me recognize this guy.
I don't have confidence in shooting someone with one photo.
And they're like, no worries.
We got you covered.
My creepy henchman is going to ride with you and he's going to point him out and then he'sgoing to exit the train.

(26:53):
So that way it's not obvious.
As first murders go, he was very helpful.
He was very helpful.
mean, I guess if you're, if you knew to murder, if you're new to the hit, the job of thehit, mean...
No judgment, just saying, you know, if you're to it.
You need somebody to help you through it, I guess.

(27:13):
You don't learn anything right away.
No.
Yeah.
But yeah, I mean, was really great planning on Mr.
Minow's part.
Mr.
Minow's part.
that atmosphere and the...
colors of that train in those stations and the clothing.
Every decision is intentional and you can tell.

(27:33):
You can tell it's intentional from the part of production.
The trench coat and the whole Itcher classic camel color trench coat with a plaid, sort ofa plaid lining on the inside.
And you only know that because they've cut a hole into the
to the pocket so that way he could put the gun in the pocket and shoot from inside thecoat.

(27:56):
know, little details like that are amazing.
And there's a moment, of course, where he's sitting down on the bench and the barrel issticking out.
And he's like, he's almost like because he's so scared and so nervous, he sort of glances,he has to glance down at his leg to notice that the gun is sticking out, which is a great,
great moment.
Another great moment is when he makes eye contact with the target.

(28:21):
Yes.
And I felt in that moment, like as an American audience member, you immediately like, myGod, he's going to figure it out.
The guy that he's trying to murder is going to figure it out.
And that's not what happens.
It's a very casual.
We awkwardly sometimes make eye contact with people on public transportation and nobodywants to do it.

(28:41):
So we sort of like, oops, hi.
And then, you know, look, look away and kind of play it off.
Whoopsies.
Right.
Wasn't staring at you, but kind of was.
But kind of was, which is such a human thing to do because public transportation is, isawkward and that is what you do.
And it felt very real.

(29:02):
Yeah.
And right before then he managed to bump his head on a dumpster that was in the stationand, he's bleeding from the head.
So when he encounters his target is the most, it's even more awkward because he's the mostsuspicious person in that train car.
Holding onto his head with a napkin that's like because his head is bleeding.
He's wearing a trench coat and he has one hand in his pocket.

(29:24):
Yeah.
that was brilliant.
But somehow manages to follow this guy without being caught, finds his moment weirdlywhile going up an escalator and let the guy get kind of far up and he gets up a little
ways himself before he shoots.
The guy tumbles, falls forward.
So he keeps kind of

(29:45):
his body keeps riding up the escalator and poor Yonathan like weirdly is like, shit, andthen turns around and has to run back down the escalator the wrong direction to take off.
he plugs that guy, it is one of the most realistic murder scenes I've ever seen in a filmbecause he's going through all of the emotions of a first kill situation.

(30:08):
where he's, mean, not that I know what that's like, allegedly.
Allegedly, me either, allegedly.
but he's running down the escalator in a panic, scared, a little sick.
Thankfully, he's holding onto his head.
Yes, because he's holding the handkerchief to his head because he's bleeding.

(30:28):
But he manages to get out of the station and he lets out a laugh.
And how did that laugh read to you?
Not cold at all.
Not like a cold killer.
It read as, my God, I just did
the most insane amoral thing that you could possibly do.
And somehow I've come through the other side and I've made it out.

(30:53):
And holy crap, just a massive amount of relief, right?
So it was so, yeah, it just reads as this real aggressive, oh my God, did I just do that?
Oh, I did.
Oh, I think I'm okay.
Oh, oh, shit.
That's exactly right.
Like it's almost like his endorphins come vomiting out of his mouth.

(31:14):
Yes, yes.
One of the most remarkable things about that scene, every choice Bruno Gans makes from thetime he pulls that trigger to the moment he's outside that train station, every single
choice he makes, mind you, no dialogue.
Right.
Every choice he makes is just a masterclass in how to do that thing.

(31:36):
And it's...
remarkable and it's for the ages.
I mean, arguably that is also the moment where I was like, why doesn't Bruno Gans have hisown masterclass?
He should.
I'd watch it.
Yeah, bet it'd be amazing.
He passed away.
Yeah.
Oh, son of a.
Sorry.
My bad.
But you have plenty of time to get one.

(31:57):
Right.
It's been around.
You got one.
It's been around for a while.
He could have had one before he died.
He could have invented it.
I'm going to look straight into the camera now.
But like it would have been an amazing legacy and then we could have watched him in likeI'll only get like a tiny percentage like a tiny fraction Will I be able to?

(32:19):
We would take turns wrecking his legacy be like yeah I hope you enjoy this podcast becausewe are students of Bruno Gantz
All right, I mean, maybe you're not wrong.
But I still contend I would have really enjoyed a Bruno Ghosn's masterclass.
Yeah, I would have Just saying.
Yeah.

(32:39):
Just saying.
But that being said, the film takes a different term.
It does.
It does.
It becomes a few different films, actually.
This scheme is complete.
He executes the man for this gangster that was actually owed the favor from Tom Ripley inthe first place.
But he mentions a Tom Ripley.

(33:01):
that he wants this man to kill again.
And he believes he'll do it.
And our friend Ripley is like, no, he won't.
That was not our discussion.
While Ripley is going back to New York for another bundle of paydays.
from his now eye patched artist.

(33:22):
Also, can we just talk about that for a split second?
Yeah, sure.
seconds.
Where did the eye patch come from?
He didn't have it in the beginning.
He mentioned earlier that his eyes were going bad.
Oh, okay.
Because I was like, where did the eye, why do we have an eye patch now?
What's going on with the eye I feel like that was just to prove there was a continuitydirector on set.
Because that was a...

(33:43):
He was like, early in the film, he's like, my eyes bother me.
And then later on, he's got an eye patch.
Later on, he's David Bowie.
Maybe it's just another level of Vim Vendors.
Homages.
Thank you.
Or just his intelligence and his high level of, I can't think of the word.
Magic.
Thank you.

(34:04):
It is another level of Vim Vendors magic that he was like, and now there's an eye patch.
Yeah.
As he's in New York, Ripley gets a crisis of conscience while walking on the median of theWest Side Highway, which by the way is my screen saver.
I'm not joking.

(34:24):
That's the screen saver in my computer is that shot.
That's how much I love this movie.
I love it.
Yeah.
He shot from behind in his cowboy hat and cowboy boots, walking in real life on the medianof the West Side Highway, not in the middle median, but on the left side.
So
On the right side of him is traffic and on the left side of him is the street below.

(34:46):
Right.
And he's walking on that median in cowboy boots.
I don't care if he took four steps and they were like, cut.
Those are four steps too many.
Yeah.
you want to remain alive.
It's horrifying.
I had a minor panic attack during that scene.
I was like, what is he doing?
What is happening?
I was, I really again, you saw the 4k, you saw the 4k restoration.

(35:10):
I saw the 4k restoration and I
I did.
That shot is so beautiful though.
It's such a beautiful shot.
It is.
It really is.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Thanks for giving us that Dennis Hopper.
The way he's talking to himself during that moment.
So that shot is stunning.
I had a minor panic attack because it's like, my God, if he falls, that's insane.

(35:31):
But at the same time, he's verbally speaking to himself and having a crisis of conscience.
And it's really funny where he's like,
You can just see it's like our version of damn it.
I am not okay with what's happening.
It's that version of that.
it's really funny.
might've had a hand in it.
might've had a hand in it.
don't feel good about it.
It might be my fault.

(35:52):
Like it's a real sort of, damn it moment.
And I loved that while he's freaking me out by an every other viewer out by walking onthat day.
And the traffic below out the traffic below, but I would have to say this is the moment.
where it ceases to be a Ripley film.
This is where he deviates from the character and Patricia Highglass, right?

(36:16):
Highsmith, Highsmith, Patricia Highsmith.
other white meat.
Like, says to Vim Vendors, when she screened the film the first time, I don't know whatyou did to my book, but that man's not playing Ripley, he's not Ripley, and this isn't
what I did, and I don't like this, and walked out.
And that broke Vim Vendors, that broke his heart.

(36:37):
Like he was very, very upset by that.
Later on, she would come around.
She had seen like a public viewing of it and she enjoyed Dennis Hopper's performance.
Really loved the train station scene.
She specifically pointed that out, but yeah.
Cause it's spectacular.
But I have to agree with her initial assessment that this is no longer a Ripley story.

(37:01):
This is where it ceases to be a Ripley's game and becomes the American friend.
Agreed, We'll start with Dennis Hopper returning to the shop.
Yes.
He knows this man has murdered someone.
But he also knows that he's being forced to do it again.
Right.
And he kind of bonds with Zimmerman.

(37:25):
Mm-hmm.
And there is an electric chemistry with these two actors in the, it starts, it beginsright at that scene.
Mm-hmm.
Would you agree?
Yes, I would agree.
Like the two of them are playing off of each other.
I don't know if you know this, like the two songs that Bruno Gans sings in the shop areKing's tunes.

(37:46):
Oh, no, I didn't know that.
And then Dennis Hopper promises him that he's going to bring the Beatles back to Hamburg.
Right.
And he's like, I don't believe that's true.
I don't think you're telling truth.
And he goes into like a second of baby, you can drive my car or something.
He does.
But there's a really wonderful rapport between the two of them.
And I'll tell you where that comes from.

(38:07):
Because it's something that started in real life.
this is important to why the film is even called what it is.
So Bruno, I mentioned earlier, Bruno Gans is a meticulous, studied actor, right?
This time, this point in his career.
Even while Dennis Hopper's sort of detoxing and getting rehydrated, Bruno Gans has notleft his trail.

(38:33):
He's studying his lines.
He wants to understand every scene.
He's very professional.
By the time Hopper does get to set, Hopper's very loosey goosey.
When Bruno Gantz witnesses this, it bothers him.
It like gets skin crawling to him to watch some man trying to improvise.

(38:53):
I don't know if you noticed, like the selfie scene, as it's called now, because itpredates the selfie.
It's him taking, Dennis Hopper's taking photos of himself with Polaroids.
yeah.
Yeah.
Improvised the scene of him singing the ballad of easy right or on the balcony improvised,right?
all of this is driving Bruno Gantz in mental that like that he's being shot making upstuff on the spot like he can't even wrap his brain around that.

(39:18):
Right.
OK.
So they're in a scene together in that shop and Dennis Hopper starts vamping and BrunoGantz by all accounts climbs over the counter and beats the
out of Dennis Hopper, knocks him on his ass right there.
They go tumbling into the street, they're climbing on each other and beating each other.

(39:42):
And then they go separate ways.
They leave the set.
So Vim's like, I guess we rap for the day, right?
Like, dear.
They somehow end up at the same bar and they end up drinking together the entire nightthrough the Hamburg evening.
The two of them are just sh** faced drunk.

(40:07):
The crew is set up the next morning as they're setting up cameras, they're setting uplighting, everything.
Bruno Gantz and Dennis Hopper come stumbling toward the set arm in arm because they hadnot left the bar.
They did not sleep.
And Ben Benders was like, you know, it was just like, all right, we're not going to shoottoday.

(40:27):
But from that moment on, the two of them are best friends.
So much so that from that moment on Bruno Gantz, when he does films, starts to improvise alittle bit.
Dennis Hopper opposite, start studying his roles a little bit more.

(40:47):
And the two of them sort of become like infused in each other's approaches for the rest ofcareers.
That's amazing.
That's real friendship right there.
Having witnessed this,
Vim Vendors decides in that moment, because the film is being shot under the name Framed,know, because of the picture and he also hates the name Ripley.

(41:11):
Yeah, also he Ripley's Game as a title, right?
But also, like, the book wasn't even published yet, so he felt like he had some room,right?
And that moment on, the film's called The American Friend.
Like, he's like, he named it right after their sort of situation, and also the idea thatRipley came in, you know,

(41:32):
and becomes a friend.
Yeah.
From this position of this, you know, sneaky manipulative human.
Also, he thought it was more interesting because Dennis Hopper came up with the idea ofRipley changing his mind.
Really?
And that was more interesting to than just being an immoral character.
It's almost as though Vim said, okay, I've got this book that hasn't been published yet.

(41:58):
Right.
And it's really interesting.
but it's not quite there.
Because ultimately you're right.
How I see Tom Ripley as a character who is in fact well known, right?
Because it is, he's in five books.

(42:18):
There have been multiple versions of both TV and movies of these five books.
Thinking about it from that aspect, I would say on its face,
was like, oh, it's Tom Ripley, but you're absolutely correct in that it does kind of a, itdoes a change part way through.
It does shift.

(42:39):
And it is something a little different.
And it's almost as though he just, vendors just took the outline and went, what a niceplace to start from, but maybe I can go someplace else with it, which is interesting.
Yeah.
You know what?
After the credits of this show, I'm going tell you one more Dennis Hopper story.
Ooh.
Okay.
But now, you know what time it is?

(43:01):
Do ya?
It's time for America's Favorite Segment.
Let's franchise this comma baby.
Woo!
My favorite part.
If you are just tuning in, this is the segment where Devon and I repurpose the content ofthe movie we were just talking about and turn it into something we can make money with

(43:24):
today.
And when I mean money, I mean like, poor money.
Work in the corner cash.
Like it.
Yeah.
I'm all excited about that horror money.
So this week is a little bit of a challenge because we were doing the American friend,which is based on the Ripley books, which are called what, Devin?

(43:48):
The Ripley ad.
And there are five of them.
Can you name all five?
Yes.
Only because I have them written down.
The talented Mr.
Ripley, Ripley Underground.
knew that one.
Ripley's Game.
I knew that one.
The Boy Who Followed Ripley.
and Ripley underwater.
Ripley underwater?
Yep.

(44:09):
Has he become like Aquaman?
Like what happens?
Is it an underwater treasure story?
I think people get murdered by drowning.
And is my understanding, and apparently it's the weakest of the five.
Everything I've read is they all go downhill after the talented Mr.
Ripley.
They are each successively worse than the one before.

(44:30):
okay.
Yeah.
So we gotta prevent that from happening.
We have to prevent that from happening.
Maybe we just take the titles and just kind of, we keep Ripley the way he's supposed toYeah, we keep him and I feel like we can make some quality changes to keep it consistent
throughout.
Okay, so first and foremost, let's get our cinematographer, because the atmosphere is themost important thing.

(44:52):
But in this premise, do we think we have the same cinematography for all five films?
Or is like an anthology thing where we mix and match?
No, I think we go the same because my brain goes to and I know we've discussed this beforemy brain goes to Harry Potter look at that face.

(45:13):
Hear me out because you're talking about in franchise Scenario, right?
Yeah in a franchise scenario where right if you go at it initially from it being ananthology that is fine, but it has to be very Obvious from the word go and I'm not sure
that it always is
So I think if you're capable of doing a consistent, the good answer is Lord of the Rings,right?

(45:41):
Because they very clearly, it's the exact same One was exactly as boring as the next.
Thank you.
Right.
They are exactly consistently.
Consistently boring.
So I would hope we wouldn't be consistently boring, but I like the idea of consistency.
Look, that consistently boring franchise made a lot of damn money.

(46:02):
And that's why we're here.
That's right.
You said you wanted to make core money and I got excited about that.
Cash money holds is what I'm talking about.
Yeah.
So I think we go same director, same cinematographer, cinematographer, the whole, thewhole same crew.
Same director for all five.
All right.
yeah.
What if the first one fails?
we fire them?

(46:22):
Are we in for a pound?
I think that's always an option.
Although I have to say this, if we've done our homework,
And our pre-work is quality.
Then we shouldn't, we should go into it having confidence that our first crew won't fail.
We have to be confident in that first crew.

(46:45):
mean, yes, we can fire me hire if necessary, but if we're doing a good job, it should begood out of the gate.
We shouldn't have to worry about rehiring.
I think you're absolutely right.
You're a good producer.
Thank you.
Yeah.
Like we can be loose.
If it needs to be under the circumstances, right?
But the plan is going in is there is a plan.

(47:07):
Exactly.
is more, more thought went into that for this bit than the whole last star Wars franchise.
So who do you have as a cinematographer?
Who is your, who would you bring to the meeting?
Frank Grieb or Frank Grieber.
Oh.
Because he's German.

(47:27):
And I think that's because I came at it from, with the American friend of mine.
Right.
So even though there's been.
Multiple.
I don't know.
Multiple versions of multiple of these books.
Right.
One starring John Malkovich.
That is true.
Yeah.
That is true.

(47:48):
But I came at it from a very specific viewpoint of the American friends and kind of thatbackground.
So Frank Grieber is the guy who did Run Lola Run, which is very much in My Wheelhouse islike a movie that was a thing when I was a teenager.

(48:08):
He also did a weird little special one I love, Perfume, the Story of a Murderer.
which is such a weird movie, but I love so much.
a great movie.
I that movie a lot too.
It's a really fun movie.
Also, like a really delightful Alan Rickman vessel, or vehicle, shall we say.

(48:28):
What year did that come out?
Oh gosh, what year did that come out?
I want to say, did he pass away?
2016?
Yeah.
So I would say 2010 at the latest.
Because I it was one of his last ones.
Oh, okay, Story of a Murderer, came out 2006.
Ah, okay.

(48:49):
Yeah.
Close, not quite there.
Is that based on the book, I'm wondering?
Is that the scentless person who works at the perfume factory?
Yeah, yeah, it's the scentless person who works at the perfume factory.
fact, the Nirvana song, Scentless Apprentice, is based on that book.
Really?
Again, junk drawer right there, junk drawer in that brain.

(49:11):
mean, if we...
do that movie at some point, we're going to use the Nirvana song.
feel like that just seems obvious.
Why didn't they use it?
least, right?
Yeah.
Now I feel like it's a fail that they didn't use it, but he did that.
But also I'd say he's probably most well known for Cloud Atlas, which visually isinteresting.

(49:31):
That's how I went at it.
I went at it with Jaren Blayche.
Great choice, by the way.
I think that is a solid choice.
I want Jaren Blache, if I'm pronouncing his name right, it's Blache.
Blache.
Blache.
You keep talking about him.
I'm going to Google him and figure out if I might even be Yaren.

(49:54):
Now that might be Yaren.
No umlauts, though, I don't think.
No, not like J ABA.
RIN.
Yeah.
So anyway, he worked on all the Egger stuff.
He's being nominated up the face right now.
for Nosferatu, but he also did The Lighthouse.
So that's my first choice.

(50:16):
My second choice is Emmanuel Lubezki, who did Birdman, which is famous to that one-shotdeal.
Well, it's not real one-shot, but know, the big one-shot with Michael Keaton.
He did The Revenant, which I keep referring to as the bear movie.
I have a friend, Jim, who loves that movie and he's like, did you see the revenue?

(50:37):
And I haven't seen it.
I'm like, you mean the one with the bear?
And I saw that in the trailer.
My God, the one with the bear.
So yeah, and he did Burn After Reading for the Coen brothers as well.
Which is really an interesting mix of films.
Yeah, so that's why I think he's quite capable of handling.
Another choice is a really underhanded one.

(51:00):
We haven't mentioned a budget yet on our...
series but it's five movies, it's gonna be.
It's be big budget.
I mean if you're gonna treat it like a series and we go into it knowing we're doing allfive books, then I think we have a big budget.
I think we treat it a bit like a blockbuster and we have a big budget.
All right, then this guy doesn't even matter.

(51:20):
We can kick him to the curb.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, because if I have the money, I don't need to backpedal like this.
And also it's most important character is the atmosphere.
So we go big.
I would say
Both of yours are really interesting choices.
Yours is choice too.
So yeah, good meeting.
I'm not, yeah.
Ooh.
Okay.

(51:40):
I don't know.
Who do you have for Ripley?
also wait, we should also establish because are we going to ensemble this?
Because I think there should be characters that go through the series.
Yes.
There should be like a detective that almost catches them at the end of every movie.
Okay.
So if we do that, then so arguably.
Ripley is the same throughout, obviously.

(52:03):
He gets married in the second book.
Her name is Heloise Plisson, and I believe she's French.
So the wife has to be the same.
Our criminal friend, Reeves Minow, I know it appears as though he may not, they try tomurder him in American Friend, but we don't really know if he survives or not.

(52:23):
He's in multiple of the books.
So I think he's somebody.
And then of course,
What is his name Bernard Tufts is the name of the the painter who pretends to die?
Does he appear in all the he's in all the book?
He's not in all of them, but he's in several of them because the the whole storyline of Igot him gas already my brain right now.

(52:48):
Go ahead.
Yeah, okay so the storyline of of of or that that B plot line of of them selling the worksof the guy who's not actually dead that
is in several of the books that story line kind of it's a great grift.
Yeah, it's a grift.
good grift.
It's really interesting.
And it comes up later in like different ways than some of the other stories.

(53:09):
So those for sure are kind of the main ones is Ripley, his wife, Minnow, and then theartist.
And then let's see here.
The second book, Ripley Underground, is where we have an Inspector Webster.
And I would say that who's trying to catch him.

(53:29):
So maybe inspector Webster could turn into the guy that's kind of the cops.
Right.
I was going to say, cause there's a different inspector in talented Mr.
Ripley than there is in the second.
Yeah.
Let's just make it the same guy.
Right.
So let's now, and we'll make him Interpol.
Yes.

(53:49):
So we can go to, he's got to have a European.
Because that's the other thing that I realized as we were as as I was kind of goingthrough it I'm sorry just I just want to make sure I'm correct about this Interpol can go
from all the different countries in Europe, right?
is it yes, right?
Okay.
All right Yeah, Interpol is all over Europe because the books move throughout.
I that I to explain it to Susan.

(54:12):
No, I didn't poor Susan.
didn't I Susan doesn't need everything Yeah, okay.
All right fine.
But yeah, so New York Italy France Germany
For sure.
Right.
And so we need a cop that can go everywhere.
So technically he can't go to New York, but I feel like it's, it's inner New York liaison,liaison, in my brain, I know James Bond's in trouble, right?

(54:37):
As a franchise, right?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
It's tied up between Amazon and Barbara Broccoli, right?
Barbara Broccoli has got the last say and Amazon is messing it up.
Amazon, can't rule the world.
Frankly, they're messing up a lot.
things, right?
The Washington Post, we can go on.
Like I said, you can't rule the world.
No, but you can keep James Bond tied up while we make our douchebag alternative to JamesBond.

(55:04):
Yes!
Because if there's anything that the TV show Ripley has taught me, what's his name, AndrewScott?
Andrew Scott.
Right.
It is so much fun to watch Ripley wiggle out of stuff, right?
So if we can turn that
into sort of, but give it like a James Bond vibe, except everything he does is criminal,horrible, and murderous.

(55:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's James Bond without the badge, right?
Yeah, I mean, if you wanna turn him into an anti-hero, like an anti-capitalist one, likemaybe loosely based on Luigi Mangione, that's probably a terrible idea, but definitely do
it.
I would say...

(55:49):
It's an, you know, I don't want to get in the way of the writer's interpretation, but Isay we, we franchise that as an alternative to James Bond and almost intentionally like
make it look like it in marketing.
Right.
I like that might be a different meeting, but that's my thought and my, I it a lotactually.

(56:12):
Right.
Yeah.
So Ripley needs to be that guy, right?
I have a few candidates.
You want to give me yours?
Barry Kiyogan.
From?
Saltburn.
wow.
Let me, wow, that's a great, great choice.

(56:34):
Because Ripley needs to be imperfect.
Yeah.
But also perfect.
He needs to a great choice.
Devious, but.
Charismatic.
There's so many elements to them that are complicated.
And I just thought, right?

(56:59):
I, that's who I think could pull it off.
I think that's our first candidate.
I think that's the one we lead in with, right?
Yeah.
I went with, I had three choices.
Okay, tell me.
Anthony Starr of The Boys.
yes, okay.
Tobias Menzies.
What do I know him from?

(57:19):
He's in the crown.
He played Prince Philip in the crown.
OK.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Right.
He was Brutus in Rome.
If you ever seen that series, that that was actually really good.
And he was Edmure Tully in Game of Thrones.
OK, OK.
I think I know who you're talking about.
That's my first choice.

(57:39):
Right.
OK, OK.
That's your first choice.
OK.
David Tennant.
Yeah, he could be really perfect.
Okay, I would have a hard time passing up David Tennant because I love David Tennant.
But David Tennant could also play the detective.
my God, David Tennant would be perfect as our detective.
I love that even better.

(58:00):
Couple of things.
Yeah.
David Tennant works better because my initial thought with the detective was to make himlook as douchey as Ripley actually is, which there's only one choice, which is Giovanni
Robisi.

(58:23):
Yep.
Yep.
I got it.
I got it.
But David Tennant is the lie.
tell the audience because David Tennant would make the audience think he is eventuallygoing to get them.
That is true.
The audience will believe 100%.
It's just a matter of time before Tennant gets them and they will fall for it through theduration of five films.

(58:44):
They will.
Yeah.
Okay.
So
Let's do David Tennant on the detective.
Then I think it's, I think then it's Barry Kiyogan and David Tennant.
I think them together is beautiful.
agree.
Ooh, I like that.
I like that a lot.
All right, but we need, I still need to cast Giovanni in a role that's like, you know, weneed somebody to represent like the inside of, cause Ripley is handsome, right?

(59:14):
But inside he clearly isn't, right?
You know what, actually- I want a visual representation of that.
Okay.
This might, okay, I don't know what you feel about this, but based on my understanding ofthe final book, I think he could be the other main character in Ripley Underwater, which

(59:35):
is David Pritchard.
The description kind of to me is the Pritchard, so it's a married couple, David and JanicePritchard, and I have the feeling that he is,
read the synopsis of the final book and I kind of think that's perfect.
Right.
Okay.
Because the, you know, cause we have to have in addition to sort of like the, that likethe five characters that kind of consistently would be throughout.

(01:00:00):
Right.
Each story will have a couple of leads, a couple of additional leads based on that story.
Right.
And I feel like he could bring it home then because the final one is Ripley underwater.
And I think
Yeah, you're going to have to read the synopsis of Ripley underwater.
Cause I feel like now it's G von Ravisi.
Which in our bond analogy is live and let die.

(01:00:26):
Oh, yeah.
people got that joke.
Shout out to you.
But as the artist guy, the artist guy, Nick Nolte.
It's Nick Nolte.
Ah, damn it.
OK, that's better than my picks.
Who was your pick?
I had two.
Right.
I went with a little like outside your standard.

(01:00:47):
So I did you and Bremner.
OK, that's not a bad choice at all.
because he's he's so delightfully kooky.
And that character is really goofy, right?
Cause it's a really weird guy.
You you faked your own death to sell your, to sell your art.
And then I think at some point he does get murdered, gets murdered or commits suicide.

(01:01:10):
So I'm like, yeah, it's gotta be a kooky guy.
that, or because much of the story takes place in France, I thought Vincent Cassell wouldbe one that was, I'm trying to think of what he,
he was in Black Swan.
He's a French actor.
He's a very popular French actor, but he was in Black Swan.

(01:01:31):
He was in a couple of the.
I'm sorry.
Every time I hear the anytime I ever hear that film referenced, I shut down.
sorry.
No, you didn't do it.
You didn't know.
I know.
I didn't know.
OK, see, I.
I hear that and immediately I hear my husband in my ear going, blah, blah, blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Cause that's he does.

(01:01:55):
Never.
take about song Lake.
was perfect.
That's up there with Halle Barry's make me feel good.
Oh my God.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yep.
Right there.
You said it.
I'll tell you that.
I'll tell you a story really quick.
That actually had come up.
Um, uh,
It was around the time of my birthday when that second X-Men movie had come out and abunch of us went to see it.

(01:02:19):
Yeah.
One of our close friends told me and my friend Kevin not to sit near each other because wewould talk through the whole thing.
Uh-huh.
We were very good.
We promised we were very good.
And then there was a scene where Harley Barry is talking to this character namedNightcrawler.
And yeah, she had just won an Oscar, right?

(01:02:41):
But in these X-Men movies, she is
Maybe it's the direction, maybe it's the writing.
She's awful.
She's terrible.
There's one point where she's talking to the character and she's sucking her lips likeshe's gonna cry.
But it's like when a little girl's pretending she's gonna cry.
It's really bad.
But anyway, it goes on for a minute.
She's like...

(01:03:02):
And at this point, I couldn't help it.
And also I was a few drinks in and I just went, make me feel good.
And the whole theater erupted in laughter.
It was my birthday.
got away with it.
But yeah, I mean, yeah, you can do what you want on your birthday.
I get it.
That's what happened.
my god.
That's amazing.
now I forget where it was.

(01:03:24):
visit.
So, okay.
Black Swan.
Okay.
So he was in, crap.
Who is that director?
The messenger was the late nineties, early two thousands, the messenger Joan of Arc, theone that starred.
that's yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay, he's in that.
It's stored not Jane Weedland.

(01:03:44):
No, not Jane Weedland.
Mila Jovovich.
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And is Luc Visson, right?
Luc Visson, she was married him for a while.
Yes.
And he was the director.
Okay, so I think, so he's in that.
Did he do, he did all like the Resident Evil movies too, didn't he?
Did he?
Yes, I think he did actually.
I think he did.
So I feel, okay, so Look at me knowin' all the trash.

(01:04:07):
I love it.
If you look up Vincent Cassel, you'll be like, oh yeah, I know his face and I've seen himin things.
He's just got that right vibe.
But you did a better job than me.
I I know how we argue with Nick Nolte.
I got the Minot character too, now that I think about it, just occurred me.
Oh, okay, well then.

(01:04:27):
And it pays tribute to Vin Vendors, right?
Okay, okay.
The Minot character, oh, you see now I'm second guessing it.
Eli Roth.
because he's a director.
yeah.
OK.
But also very different than what I went.
Looks the part.
OK.
You saw many.

(01:04:48):
You saw glorious bastards, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
the bear Jew.
That's who I was.
Yeah.
OK, OK.
Yeah.
Well, OK.
Well, that's that is so different than what I did.
What did you do?
Did you just cast spin vendors?
Because that's my second choice.
No, no.
I actually went Kingsley Benadir.

(01:05:11):
that's good too.
Cause I just thought he would be really interesting.
And even though I feel like anybody listening is going to be like, Ken's best friend fromBarbie?
Yeah.
But, right?
They're going to say that, but I'm like, no, no.
But I mean, when you think about like secret invasion and he was in Peaky Blinders.
You watch secret invasion?

(01:05:32):
The marble?
Well, You put yourself through that?
Why?
Okay, so we watch all the Marvel stuff, but in fairness, if I'm honest, I slept throughmost of the episodes.
Yeah, that one I saw the trailer and I was like, I ain't doing that.
And this is coming from someone who like, I actually produce a comic book show, right?

(01:05:54):
Yes, yeah, no, I understand.
And counting down the days to Daredevil season four, right?
Right.
I saw the Secret Invasion and I was like, what are we doing?
Okay.
So I'm not saying that to put you down.
I want to know how bad it was.
I can't really tell you.
Cause like I said, when did we watch it?

(01:06:16):
Oh, I literally watched it.
You watched a few episodes.
know while your wife was visiting me, your wife and daughter were visiting me and we hadother family members here.
I think
There was a night where we'd all just were so excited to have family in town and we allhad You decided to ruin it.

(01:06:38):
You were like, let's just ruin it right now.
This is too good.
I everybody was just so tired.
And it was something Brian was trying to watch.
And everybody was like, we're too tired to arc you.
You know, my daughter shuts down when she sees superheroes, right?
Like any superhero, she will not watch it.
She used to love the little Spider-Man cartoons when she was little.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When she sees, and I don't know how she,

(01:07:02):
Assembled the words in this order but like she will see the Marvel logo and she goes no Ihate these heroes and she I love that.
Yeah, I hate those heroes and walks away She might have been going to bed because I thekids may have been put to bed and I think everybody was just really tired because we you

(01:07:23):
know, we don't always get Listeners we don't live near each other.
So we do get family time
we're aggressive with our family time, because we're so happy to see each other.
And then get really tired.
And although this is on a Rheinback radio station, I don't want to work with anybody inRheinback.
That's right.
I'm working with my cousin before I work with anybody in Rheinback.

(01:07:45):
Right?
Right.
So yeah, so honestly, I only saw like a couple of episodes and then I pretty much sleptthrough it.
So I really can't tell you, you'd have to ask Brian.
pretty much passed out.
don't even really know how it ends.
All right, well.
But nonetheless, he did these other things.
Like I said, like Peaky Blinders and oh, he was in Agatha Christie's Marple and I fuckinglove Miss Marple and I know you have to bleep me, but that's how much I love her.

(01:08:14):
Yeah.
So yeah, he was in that and then like I said, he was in Secret Invasion.
Miss Marple's great.
I love that little old bitty, that little bitty.
Yeah, she's great.
Yeah, that was adorable.
was very good.
So fun.
I love that lady so much.
Okay, now here's the issue I'm running into with the talented Mr.

(01:08:36):
Ripley part of it, right?
Because we're here.
Because it was just a series, do we set it in Italy or do we change that up?
Just to separate it from the series?
No, we don't change it up.
Well, should we get the data from Netflix first?
Like how many people actually watched it?
You know what mean?
That's true.
Right.

(01:08:56):
The way I see it, I think if we go into it knowing we're doing all five, I think we followthat.
I think we use all the locations.
We start in New York, we go to Italy, we go to France, we go to Germany, we go back toFrance.
I think we hit all those places because that is where the story is.

(01:09:20):
And in the rewrite, we make it all cohesive.
It's like as if it's one
and just take elements from all of them and turn it into one long.
I think so.
Series of grips and murders, right?
Yeah.
Well, and honestly, if you look at the synopsises of all the books, wait, synopsis, isthat Latin?

(01:09:43):
Is it synopsi or is it synopsis?
I like synopsi.
But I also like octopi and radiculi.
Radiculi is amazing.
Yeah, we are radiculi.
We are ridiculous.
And my other one, craptacular.
We're ridiculous and craptacular.
Yeah, in the right measure.

(01:10:04):
In equal measure, 100%.
And cruel to be kind.
You got that right.
So if we take the series as a whole, we look at the synopsis of all of them, they arerelatively cohesive, or least the first three for sure are.
Because you've got,
Characters that go throughout so like like our art guy Bernard He's in the second one.

(01:10:31):
He's in the third one The wife is in multiple Like yeah, she's in a bunch of them.
So like mmm There is a cohesion because you are following this one guy in his storyline Solike Tom gets dicky greenleaf's fortune by pretending to be dicky, right?
Well when he marries his wife and the second one

(01:10:53):
He's using Dickie's fortune and that is referenced.
That's how he lives his fancy okay, yeah, interesting.
So, yeah.
So there's these You're gonna love the series, by the way.
You're gonna love the series.
You are, right?
I'm so excited about it, because I'm like, I'm going to get a kick out of that.
Yeah.
I am.
Well, and also because I do love Andrew Scott.
I think he'll be- He's great.
I watched the whole thing already.

(01:11:13):
He's amazing.
Yeah, I'm gonna enjoy it.
But, but, yeah, so the books do connect.
and those storylines and there are plot elements that go throughout and you havecharacters that go throughout.
So I think we have that already.
And so I think it's safe to keep aspects of those stories because like this one, soRipley's game, it doesn't take place in Germany the whole time.

(01:11:38):
Their family home is in France.
So a good chunk of it is in France.
They go to Hamburg for one of the murders, I want to say.
And then I think they go to
Munich for one of the murders, but the rest of it's taking place in France.
Okay.
Well, I'm asking also because I'm not, I didn't pick who might score this.

(01:12:00):
And because I'm so familiar with this, with the, the show soundtrack, I'm very familiarwith the show soundtrack because it also pulls a lot of fifties and sixties Italian music.
I only know that because Mike Patton once performed,
50s and 60s Italian standards with an orchestra on an album and video called Mondo Kanye.

(01:12:21):
And I can't recommend it enough.
It's unbelievable.
It's incredible.
Mondo Kanye.
Yeah.
But I know a lot of those tunes from that specific place, right?
But also the person who scored the Ripley soundtrack was incredible.
So I don't think I could

(01:12:42):
off the top of my head like that, just say Mark Mothersbaugh and be done with it.
Cause it's not that, yeah, it's not that simple.
Especially if you're, if we're going to all these different places with their own musicalidentities and their own identities.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So mean that we'll have to come back to that or let somebody else make that decision.

(01:13:03):
I mean, that's, that's true.
Cause honestly, we'll credit for it, but like, you know, of course, of course we'll claimcredit for it.
But I,
I feel like I never wanna pick who scores it because I just know your answers.
Your suggestion's always gonna be better when it comes to music.
Thank you, but I'm drawing a blank on this one.
I'm like, just leave that one blank.

(01:13:24):
I do have a couple other characters though that I wanna run by you.
Go ahead.
Because do think I've picked a few.
Who's Jesse Plemons playing?
Crap, he's not on my list.
Okay, so I did a real aggressive.
researching as soon as I knew I wanted Barry Keoghan.
Part of the thing about Dickie Greenleaf from The Talent of Mr.
Ripley is they look similar enough.

(01:13:47):
They don't look exactly alike, but they look kind of similar.
Ty Sheridan, was like, so he has to Dickie Greenleaf because he looks enough like BarryKeoghan for that to work.
And then I decided Marge, the girlfriend in today's world, I want it to be Sydney Sweeneyor Sabrina Carpenter.

(01:14:08):
because that feels real obnoxious.
Solid.
Those are solid.
Right?
Like either one would be fine.
Solid.
And then the wife, Heloise, is French, and I went with Leah Sedoux, or Sedow.
Huh.
Because I was like, I know she's maybe a tiny bit older.
She's not old, she is under 40.

(01:14:30):
But I think maybe she's a tiny bit older than the other cats, but I don't care, becauseshe's beautiful, and she moisturizes, and she's perfect.
I mean, I would, I would have just went like, okay, Ana de Armas and we just make her gowee wee a bunch of times and we're good.
I mean, it would have been an option, but this is why I'm not right.
This is why I'm not a producer.
Right.
That right there.

(01:14:50):
Because for every, every one good choice, I'll make five bad ones like this one.
Um, then when it came to, cause then I felt like we had to focus on Ripley's game becausethat's obviously what we've just.
watched essentially.
then a little bit of a little bit of underground, isn't it?

(01:15:11):
Yeah.
But I felt like we kind of, then I kind of had Germany stuck in my head.
So then I did a little bit of work that way.
I craft work.
Yeah.
So even though, okay.
So his name is Jonathan Zimmerman in, in the American friend, but Johnny Travani is whathis name is in the book.

(01:15:33):
Right.
That character.
I thought Daniel Bruhl, who is, you know who talking about?
No, who is Daniel Bruhl?
You're gonna get so mad.
Because I have this character cast too, I had Michi Collins.
You did?
Yeah.
that's not bad, I like that.
Okay, I I like Daniel Bruhl because I was going like German.
He's, you're gonna hate me, he's Helmut Zemo in the Marvel movies.

(01:15:59):
I know who he is.
Yeah.
Okay.
You know what talking about?
Yes.
Because I was like, Well, he's also in, he's in Inglorious Basterds as well.
It's where he Thank you.
That was the other thing I had written down.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Inglorious Basterds.
he's like, think in like one of the Bourne movies.
Yeah.
So I was like, oh, but Misha Collins would be really fun.
Yeah.
neither are bad choices, I don't think.
either way, those are really good.
All So I think And then for his wife, I totally went- Anna de Armas.

(01:16:25):
No, I to St.
Trois-Boulogne because she speaks German.
Not because I feel like we need to hire last week when we were doing, last week when wewere trying to turn The House of Yes into a musical.
Yes.
That was the name that escaped me when I was like, we need somebody really milk toast forthe Tori Spelling Caravan.

(01:16:49):
And I couldn't get Sandra Bullock's name.
that was, I mean, we ended up with Sugar from the Bear.
But I was, yeah.
And she's also in The Wheelhouse of.
where they are age-wise, but that was the example I was gonna give for someone justcompletely, or the character she plays.
I don't know what she's like at all.
No, I know what you mean.

(01:17:09):
She could be complete.
Yeah, milquetoast, no, I get it.
Yeah, boom.
Aesthetically, we were looking for milquetoast.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, no, I just literally.
that escaped me, but Sandra Bullock, yeah.
Yeah, I got a little chuckle, because I was like, oh, she speaks German, and if we hang onto the German element, although I feel You can have an older wife.
You can have that.
Right?
Yeah.

(01:17:30):
Why not?
Right.
Why not?
also, Misha Collins and Sandra Bullock would work.
I feel like, mean, I mean that, right?
It works, right?
Yeah, it's a good couple.
It is a good couple.
And I thought that could be very fun.
Yeah, I mean, is it Jason Momoa and Lisa Bonet?
That's it.
Yeah, they're divorced.
Yeah, I'm sorry.

(01:17:51):
I wanted them to find happiness forever.
I know, me too.
Because I want Lisa Bonet to be happy forever.
Thank you me too.
I do want her to be happy forever.
Yeah.
All right.
Well that's that's That's sad It is sad, isn't it?
Yeah.
Okay.
Hold on.
Tell me again But I'm not gonna let that keep me from casting either of them in thefuture.

(01:18:13):
Just so you know, I mean I agree with that Yeah Even together like in a remake of ArthurThat'd be horrible.
No, I would watch it.
Even if it was horrible.
I would watch it We would just have no film in the camera
Well, there's

(01:18:51):
It's perfect.
I love it.
Yes.
Okay.
I feel like we got it.
I think we're off to the races with our franchise.
I think we are off to the races.
I'm feeling good about this.
Me too.
Well, that is our show this week.
And hang on, Devin, after the boilerplate, I got a story to tell you.
right.
Yeah.
Almost forgot.
Yeah.

(01:19:11):
have a story.
So anyway, thank you for joining us this week on Studio Property.
We're your studio property.
Next week, we will be doing
The original taking a Pelham one, two, three.
Yes.
With my favorite sentient mastiff, Walter Mathow and Robert Shaw.

(01:19:33):
I'm very excited about it.
Yeah, and Ernest Borgnein.
Ernest Borgnein.
I'm very excited.
the most important character of that film, New York City.
So yeah, great movie.
Very excited about it.
Have you ever seen the original?
No.
Oh, okay.
You're going to love it.
No, I'm not.
And we might even have a special guest for it, too.

(01:19:53):
yeah, really do love a special guest.
So in the meantime, we are Your Studio Property.
My name is Doug Wartell.
I'm Devin Irby.
And scene.
Studio Property is mixed at Spillway Street content in Red Hook, New York and syndicatedon Radio Free Reinkliff.
Themed song by The Corner Bodega.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on Instagram at Studio Property Show.

(01:20:17):
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week.
So I'm going to tell you this story really quick.
right.
Tell me.
right.
Dennis Hopper showed up to a university in Texas.
Right.
And he was going to do this is like 82 or 83 and he was going to do a Q &A on his film outof the blue.

(01:20:46):
Right.
Show his film is going to do a Q &A talking about directing it, putting it together,co-writing it.
And what had happened was
For some reason he got it in his head to get there a week early and they were like, we'renot showing that this week to this week.
We're doing taxi driver.
And he was like, well, I'll be more than happy to do commentary in a Q and a like, sir,you did not make taxi driver.

(01:21:08):
Like he had to be told you, cannot make tech, know, you didn't make taxi drivers.
So what business, it doesn't even make sense.
You know?
So he was like, all right, well, not only am I showing up for my gig, but
I'm doing a special surprise in his management arranged it all.
So if you were there that day or that evening and you had your student badge with you, yougot to see Dennis Hopper do a Q and A on out of the blue and got to watch the film.

(01:21:41):
Well, the lights go up and they make a special announcement that, everybody get on thesebuses outside because Mr.
Hopper is going to the local Derby track.
And he is going to do a stunt called the Russian death chair.
And he showed up with a stunt man friend of his and they, and this is what was happening.

(01:22:03):
So they show up to, they go to, they get to the, the, the Derby, right?
The, the racetrack, was a Derby happening at the time and the announcements made over thePA.
Well, there's a person of note.
who's come here from Hollywood, California, he's gonna blow himself with dynamite.
Now, if you're in Texas, you are stopping whatever the hell you are doing to see that,right?

(01:22:26):
So the guy he had learned it from was real serious about it.
He was like, apparently had done it a few times and taught Dennis Hopper to like sort ofto go on this, to sit in a certain way while sticks of dynamite were placed around him.
And what would happen was the explosion would be such that it would make the suction inthe air pull you off the ground.

(01:22:49):
So you would essentially be above the explosion in the chair and then land.
And then that would be it.
Right.
Okay.
Okay.
Apparently he told everyone he was going to do this.
Vim flew in for this and shot it and you can watch it on YouTube.

(01:23:10):
Really?
The story gets even weirder.
So like, gets in the chair, they place the dynamite and boom, right?
And all you see is smoke.
And then eventually Dennis Hopper emerges from the smoke, right?
The account of witnesses is that he flew quite high in the air and landed, but that's notin the shot, right?

(01:23:32):
But he emerges from the smoke and he is barrel, right?
He's in the camera, like there's a camera waiting for him.
And he's like, hey man.
Like he was like, that was wild, man.
Right.
And he's like, I can't hear anything.
It's like I got punched by Muhammad Ali.
Like he's it is crazy.

(01:23:54):
Right.
Like this guy, this is what it was like though for like some of these personality, likeDennis Hopper was like, what can I do to be interesting?
I don't know.
Like De Niro's not blowing himself up.
No, no.
There was so many wild Hopper stories.

(01:24:15):
You know, his first movie was a rebel without a cause with James Dean.
He was later in giant, right?
Yeah.
His.
What character was he in rebel without a cause?
Thug.
He played right.
So, Got it.
The moment he meets James Dean is that's it.
He's, he's going to be an actor and he has this sort of weird James Dean sort of becomeslike a talisman to him.

(01:24:42):
Like his worship of him after he dies is insane.
So much so he owns a ring that like one of James Dean's girlfriends had wasn't even givento him by James Dean.
James Dean meets him and like he sort of pestered by Hopper, but you know, but
You know after you pass away like he becomes like this weird ghost figure to hopper inreal life where is like you like well you know james dean and he would touch the ring like

(01:25:05):
it was given to weird stuff with.
The stories of Hopper's weirdness are endless.
But on that day, when he blew himself up, when he left that, when he left Texas, he wentto Mexico for a while and came back Republican and real different, like real, like an

(01:25:27):
adult, like I'm not making a political joke.
I'm like that, that's what happened.
Like he became like committed to normalcy.
in a way that you would otherwise like the easy writer guy, like, like heads into the midto late eighties and nineties, like sober and just like, you know, he's still like off

(01:25:52):
cause he's Dennis Hopper, right?
But on that day, he did a Russian death chair and actor did this in front of collegestudents for no reason.
Okay.
And now that you've told that story, I think we have to take a break from Dennis Hopper.
I'm gonna need a little bit of a break, at least for a month.

(01:26:13):
We can't do another Dennis Hopper film for a little while.
So we're gonna wait till the summer to get to like Blue Velvet.
You're gonna make me watch Blue Velvet again?
Well, I mean...
Yeah, I'm gonna need a break before then.
I mean, we can go to a different Lynch, but we'll make this decision off the air.
How about that?
Okay, okay.
Yeah, yeah, we can do that, because...