The Taking Of Pelham 123 (1974)

A lot happens in this bizarre episode. This week we are joined by special guest co-host and one of Doug’s oldest and dearest friends, Mike Percoco as we talk about THE ORIGINAL Taking Of Pelham 123, starring Walter Matthau, Robert Shaw, Martin Balsam, Hector Elizondo, some other folks and a subway train. It was directed by Joesph Sargeant, who also directed the pilot of Kojak and….well…Jaws : The Revenge.

 

At some point during the show, a person called, Tony Ratteli called in and claimed his grandfather was in the film. Tony also claimed he works as an intimacy coordinator. Oh, and both he and his grandfather are at least part rat; not to say they’re “snitches” per se but rather literal vermin. It’s a whole thing…

And of course, our show winds down at America’s Favorite Segment : Let’s Franchise This, Baby! This week we attempt to cast an imaginary prequel to The Taking Of Pelham 123 and even assign a director.

 

As always you can catch us on https://www.radiofreerhinecliff.org/ or wherever you take pod.

Our site is just about to launch but in the mean time, check out our Link Tree :

https://linktr.ee/studiopropertyshow

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
You're listening to Radio Free Reinkliff.
Welcome to Studio Property, a cinema podcast for people like you.
I'm Doug Wartell.
I'm Devin Erby.
And this week, we're discussing The Taking of Pelham 123 circa 1974, as directed by oneMr.

(00:21):
Joseph Sargent, produced by Gabriel Ketschke and Edgar J.
Scherrick.
I like that name.
Yeah.
And we, we always have to talk about the cinematographer.
So cinematography by Owen Roidsman.
yeah.
We're going to get into him a lot.
We need to get into that.
And then starring one Walter Mathau.
The human mastiff.

(00:44):
Yes, the human mastiff.
I also love that this is the first Walter Mathau movie that we're doing, is this gem.
And it also has Robert Shaw, Martin Balsam, Hector Elizondo, and Earl Hindman as our colorcrew.
Now, before we get into even a color crew, out to

(01:04):
Quentin Tarantino who sampled that like vanilla ice.
I have to mention that we were in last week's Daily Catch, which is our local paper here.
Yeah.
So that's crazy.
We were in the newspaper.
I know.
And it wasn't even for threatening blockbuster Bob on 78.1 Poughkeepsie's Community Radioor as we call it here on our station, the small P.

(01:30):
So not even about that.
Not even about that?
Actually about us?
Yeah, it was like an announcement.
Like we're here in the neighborhood.
and it wasn't, you know what they didn't report, Devin, that you may or may not havemystically killed David Lynch last week.
I know.
I've been feeling really bad about that.

(01:51):
I know.
I've been feeling really bad about that all week.
Not gonna lie.
I mean, you had no way of knowing when you said it?
No, it's true.
Except you maybe did it on purpose and
Right.
And took him away from us.
So it's possible.
I mean, I do have some weird magical aura.
do have mystic powers.

(02:11):
So I maybe I do love the occult.
I really do kill cats and stuff sometimes.
But, know, let's get in to this copy that I've got to read before the theme song.
Right.
So taking a pallum one, two, three is about a group of.
armed men who steal a New York City subway train in hopes of a cash ransom of $1 million.

(02:34):
Roger Ebert praised the film for its unforced realism as everyone from the mayor on downis New York accurately annoyed upon being forced to stop what they're doing and give a
shit about a train car full of hostages.
Walter Mathau gives a career performance as a transit officer who frantically attempts tonegotiate with terrorists in between his yesteryear curiosities like, Asians dumb-dumbs?

(02:58):
Are lady cops competent?
And might that British man robbing my train in fact, quote, be a fruitcake, unquote.
Join us now as we discuss the original taking of Pelham 123.
Devon kick the theme song.

(03:39):
So this week we have a guest host and it's a friend of yours, Doug.
I'm very excited.
So if you'd like to introduce him to our audience.
my oldest friend, right?
His name is Mike Bococo.
Decades.
Decades long.
Centuries.
How long are we?
Millennials?
How long has it been?
Millennials?
If you're listening on the podcast version of this show, I actually told the story thatMike is in and it's the story of...

(04:06):
But it's all Susan's also in the story too.
Yeah.
Mike had a magical shoplifting coat too, didn't you, Mike?
Oh, yes, I did.
I did.
It was early Colombo style and it was kind of all the way down to my ankle.
It served its purpose.
So, you know, you could if you bent over, you still had access.
You didn't have to come back up again to slide it in your pocket.

(04:29):
You could stay bent down and put it in the pocket that I made there.
Wow.
Very man from uncle spy kind of stuff.
Yeah, it was really good.
You can get like a pint of ice cream to just disappear like it was going to Narnia.
It was just right there.
Exactly.
Exactly.
I contacted Ben & Jerry to see if they'd make a brand called Disappear, you know, by yourankle brand.

(04:52):
And it just didn't work.
But we tried.
But thank you for having me, by the way.
of Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Thank But yes, he was there when Susan outdid us both with the two liter bottle of sodaunder the Army jacket.
routine.
what Mike actually introduced me to this film decades ago.

(05:15):
Yeah, I had originally seen it edited.
They used to show in Brooklyn in the early 80s on Channel 5.
And those of you from New York will know what I'm talking about because it's no longercalled Channel 5 WNEW.
I think it's W whatever they call it now.
That's the call letters W whatever they call it now.
Right.
But they used to show the movie.

(05:36):
They used to show something called the Big Apple movie every Sunday night and they showedit and I was blown away always.
And I've always been a trained nerd.
So it kind of fell into my chi, so to speak, with that.
And when video discs were available, I was too poor to have a VCR at the time.
I think they were like $9,000 at the time in 1983.

(05:59):
How much was a VCR then?
Right?
At least.
But I had a video disc.
Those little video guests that would come in and out there was CED Selectivision and I wasable to find a copy of the movie unedited and ever since then Never stopped watching it.
It was an unbelievable movie, you know It's not like a John Ford kind of thing where it'slike this, you know grand sweeping amazing Americana film But it's a great popcorn movie.

(06:25):
I agree description.
Yeah, it's a good description Joe Sargent is the director of this.
Yeah Joe Sargent comes from television
What else did he do, Mike?
He did a few strange things.
He directed a film with soap opera star Eric Braden, whose son has the den of thieves tooright now in the theater.
that's his son, Christian Gudegast.

(06:49):
His real name, of course, is Hans Gudegast, Eric Braden.
And he, his only starring role ever before Titanic, way before Titanic.
He was in a film called Colossus, The Forbin Project.
in 1970 about a kind of science fiction yarn.
If my mom's listening, I'm sorry, Jared, if my mom's listening, yes, we are talking aboutVictor Newman.

(07:11):
We are definitely talking about him.
Yes, we are.
We are.
Absolutely.
We are.
are indeed.
Jacques Ebbott, get out of my office.
You are a poor, seen human being.
You make me sick.
I'm sorry.
We'll just do all this all day.
I'm sorry.
All day.
All day.
So the movie was like a Dollar Tree version of Logan's Run, which is pretty much Logan'sRun.

(07:33):
Pretty much, anyway.
you know, strangely, I had read where Ron Howard had wanted to remake this movie a fewyears ago, never got off the ground.
Anyway, so he was a fan of it, is my point.
But Joe Sargent directed this.
And then Joe Sargent went on to direct the Kojak pilot for Teletel's Who Loves Your Baby.

(07:54):
It was called...
Marcus Nelson murders and he won an Emmy for the best director.
So he already had a kind of a little bit of clout.
After this goes on to direct Jaws the Revenge.
About 13 years later, yes.
Yes.
And if you didn't see it, it was because it was personal.

(08:15):
It was none of your business.
And it had Michael Caine, who has pretty much been in every movie ever made except forPelham.
Once they did direct to video, was pretty much as a wing named after Michael Caine becausehe's been in pretty much every movie ever made that went to video, everyone.
And Jaws the Revenge notwithstanding, absolutely.

(08:38):
Well, I saw a clip of Joe Sargent talking about making Jaws the Revenge and he was reallyfunny, but also really honest in a way that like...
I didn't see very many directors, because like a big director, once you've done somethingas epic as like Palom, right?
You'd probably say like, oh, you know, we had an idea and I just wanted the money orsomething.

(09:01):
know what I mean?
Like Michael Caine sort of rewrites history that way when this subject comes up.
But he's very honest.
He's like, no, you know what?
We thought it was a great idea.
He's like, you know, we were like, we needed a new way to kill the shark.
And we were like.
Yeah, man, it's he's out for revenge.
And it kind of smacks of that thing where like Rocky five was a really, really bad movie.

(09:31):
So he wanted to make the sixth movie.
And Jaws 3D is one of the worst movies ever made with Dennis Quaid and company.
So they probably will like, well, let's give it one more shot here.
Like you say, a good correlation.
Yeah.
You know, terrible films, but definitely yes.

(09:52):
Yes, they're right on the same.
No, they are.
They said same sort of back to back.
It's like, well, that's of cover the but this crap has corn in it.
Like I kind of I feel that one right.
know, it's so great because he's like he even like debunks a lot of the stuff that MichaelCaine will say about it.

(10:12):
He's like.
Yeah, man, Michael Caine loved the script too.
He's like, no, we all thought it was fantastic.
We were like, yeah.
Then he goes, and because I was also the producer, was like, yeah, we're to go ahead andshoot in the Bahamas.
know people told me, know, great whites don't go to the Bahamas.
Ours does because it wanted revenge.

(10:36):
At this point I'm on like two gummies and I'm like, ha ha ha.
I'm sure we would we would all agree that that movie is Michael Caine's G.
Lee.
No question.
Definitely.
I feel like that movie has two two huge stars in it.

(10:58):
Mario Van Peebles and Mario Van Peebles fake.
But it is like over the top.
We just like a man.
That's a big shock.
Exactly.
And of course, Mrs.
Brody is in it as well.

(11:18):
so when you have the only one left is Mrs.
Brody because these directors are make sure to kill her entire family little by littleeach movie.
Because I think the son gets eaten in this one or the little son gets eaten.
Right.
one who sings, know, who are you the muffin man in the first movie?
Right.

(11:39):
little kid exactly.
He's grown man now a later and then he's...
I have to be the Killjoy here and say let's move on.
I was gonna say.
Joe Sargent, what were we talking about?
There was a time when Joe Sargent got a gig where he was surrounded by incredible people,amazing cast, the most incredible DP anyone could have asked for.

(12:08):
in Owen Roisman.
Absolutely.
He did the Heartbreak Kid.
shot the Exorcist.
He shot a man called Horse.
He shot Network.
He shot three days of the Condor.
French Connection.
Yep.
Taps, Electric Horseman and Tootsie.
to your, yep, like Mike mentioned, the French Connection.
And never won a competitive Academy Award, unbelievably.
He got an honorary one before he died, a couple years before he died, but never,unbelievably never won.

(12:32):
Disgusting.
Add them to the list that angers us.
Devin, what was your experience watching this movie?
It was a real roller coaster for me.
So, OK, so I love the cinematography because I really was impressed by just the dynamic ofthe back and forth where you're basically in two rooms kind of the whole time, right?

(12:54):
So you're basically in the subway car and then you're in the control room, as it were.
But then you get intercut with that.
dumb, dumb car chase.
Well, not a car chase, like the speeding cars because the cops are trying to get there.
And then of course, shenanigans ensue.
So I thought that was all really interesting.
And of course, I'll sit through anything with Walter Mathau.

(13:14):
And it was so funny to me because it just seemed like Walter Mathau was being WalterMathau, but in a serious film.
And I was like, all right, I'm in it.
was being all, like you said, and he was like casually being racist to the Japanese trainguys.
I was like, what is all this about?
It's wonderful how they call him out though.
It's like they've been playing him all along and the scene, right?

(13:38):
Most exciting.
Most exciting.
It was amazing.
Yeah, that was fantastic.
He's playing like a reg tag Oscar Madison way too.
It's almost like the way Jack Nicholson does the shining and then every role he does afterthat.
is kind of like Torrance.

(13:58):
It's almost like when he did Oscar Madison, everything he did after that, because the badnews, the Bears even has shades of garber and then house calls and then on and on we go.
That's a good Grumpy old man even.
Yeah, yeah.
I'm sorry, please continue.
That's okay.
So yeah, so okay, so then there was that dynamic.

(14:19):
And then the other two components that kind of hit me were
The real crotchety train guy.
Wow.
That was a lot happening with that character where he was like, yeah.
Where he's like, I can't keep my trains running on time.
And I was like, Louise dude, people have been taken hostage.
Calm down.
They're so annoyed.

(14:40):
Every New Yorker from, like I said, from the mayor are just annoyed.
They're like, is cynical.
What's interesting is how the screenplay, right?
So
Peter Stone, who did that screenplay.
It's almost like he's equating to say, if you're a New Yorker, if you're a quintessentialNew Yorker, then you're automatically like a nice racist, blanket racist style.

(15:06):
You're cynical always.
Everything is about sarcasm and dry, quick one-liners.
And the original pre-911 New York had a little bit of, I hate to say, a little truth.
to it, not condoning anything about that, it sort of did have that 70s New York was a verydowntrodden kind of an era time.

(15:32):
But it's interesting how it kind of uncomfortably works that tightrope with the comedy andtrying to be an action movie.
it's usually Even at very end, where at the end, where Mathau gets the rap sheets on allof them, right?
And he's like, yeah, and this guy's from like San Francisco.

(15:53):
And he's like, yeah, I can read Rico, thanks.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
is always, right.
And it's almost like, and then what's even more amazing is how you have Mathau doing it.
So Mathau, whose career is already being like a cynical New Yorker in everything he does.
Now he's like, I get to be a character.

(16:14):
on top of being my normal who I am, it's it's like Mathau playing Mathau playing Mathaukind of thing going on.
Yeah, absolutely.
The Russian doll of Mathau.
Right, was.
was a ridiculous Russian doll situation of Walter Mathau.
And then it's like the littlest Mathau, exactly.
So this is like what I was taking in my first time watching it.
And then, of course, that last component is the fact that it is essentially also making anattempt at being a serious heist film.

(16:40):
Right.
So everything about
the heist itself was really serious and intense.
I was like, I can't, I was very whiplashy.
Cause I was like that, I was like, I loved everything about like the color crew.
I loved their, like the way, you know, the mustaches and the hat and the whole nine yards,the way they did their outfits and the whole thing and how everything was so perfectly

(17:04):
planned out and how serious everybody who's obviously a hostage is taking it and all ofthat stuff.
And then, yeah, and then just,
you know, jumping back and forth.
And I just felt like I was getting whiplash between Walter Mathau and the grumpy liketrain crew.
And then the seriousness on the car itself the whole time.
Yeah.
So it was a real ride.
Yeah.

(17:24):
Shaw Shaw is the only one who really doesn't play it for laughs at all in a way.
Like everybody else has something going on.
Even Tony Roberts, he's got a little scene and he's got right.
He's got all his little wisecracks to the mayor and blah, blah.
And the mayor was cold and Martin Balsam with his cold and everybody.
Everybody's got even his wife's got a little dig at him.

(17:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Everybody Doris Roberts, right?
She used to give Peter Boyle all the time on Everybody Loves Raymond all the time, thesame kind of characters.
She went on to play.
Right.
And there's that kind of thing like the fact that it's like people have bad colds.
Everybody's feeling crappy.
Everybody's feeling cynical.
Nobody even believes right.

(18:07):
Originally when he pulls a submachine come out which we'll probably see later in that clipThey laugh like all the hostages are left right no one takes anything seriously and real
like you say you have to take it seriously and it's interesting that you make that pointhow it kind of goes that fine line between the two You know what if we can rewind a
second.
I I've just now thought of the perfect assessment, which is going back to Michael Caine itis

(18:32):
This movie is Robert Shaw is Michael Caine in the Muppet Christmas Carol where he's theonly one playing it.
Right.
He's playing it completely 100 percent straight the entire time.
And everybody else is getting into the shenanigans around him.
But he is just the whole time.
That's that's I've never thought I'd say this, but I love you both and I hate you both somuch.

(19:02):
my God.
It's interesting how then a year later in Jaws, how, how Shaw then plays is so whimsical.
It's true.
It's almost like he's, he's letting off steam from being it's kind of closed button downand closed.
He pulls off writer perfectly doing it that way.
In the book, the book was a lot different too with a lot of things.

(19:26):
The book wasn't cynical at all.
There wasn't any of that cynical.
humor.
In fact, the book more focuses on how they managed to steal the train.
And the movie, of course, kind of puts a little fiction with that dead man's feature andthere's a little bit of fiction going on for creative license and it makes a great ending.

(19:47):
Yeah.
Correct me if I'm wrong, Mike, but the color coding of the gang came from the screenplayand not the book, right?
Right.
And it's reflected in their hats, which I only recently found out.
So whatever color
whatever hat the guy's wearing, that color is his color name.
Right.
Which I only didn't realize until recently.
So when you see Mr.
Blue, he's wearing a blue hat.

(20:09):
Right.
Martin Boltzmann's wearing a green hat and so forth and so on.
yeah, I mean, obviously, Quentin Tarantino lifted that for Reservoir Dogs.
I mean, Reservoir Dogs is a great picture on its own.
But it's also an A to Z roadmap of where we can probably pick out.
where he took from here, where he took from here, where he took from here, where he barsfrom here.

(20:30):
And Pelham notwithstanding.
That's his thing, right?
He's like, without going into a whole Tarantino thing, he's almost hip hop in the way thathe samples.
Exactly.
And just creates something new out of what he samples, right?
And what's great is I'm sure, I was gonna say, I'll just last to cap that, most people whosaw Reservoir Dogs probably found Pelham.

(20:53):
once they found that information out.
Which is a good thing, which is more people, more new generations discovering andrealizing that John Travolta's version is...
You can fill in the blank yourself.
You probably don't know this.
Jesus himself called into this show during the Saturday night fever.

(21:17):
Episode and actually called the remake of the taking of Pelham one two three a shit showHe did yeah, because I mean, mean you know, well, what is it?
So pestilence and plague and It's like a song three Psalms it all fits but in fairnessJesus was complimentary of John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever

(21:44):
And Travolta might have played Jim Morrison once, which for most uneducated people, theyassume that Jim Morrison was Jesus.
So there's a link.
and by uneducated, he means like drug, druggy people who might not take showers.
But if I could get into a little bit of a little bit into our friend Owen Roisman here fora second.

(22:06):
Yeah, because there was some incredible just things I learned about lighting listening tohim talk.
Right.
Like
This is only his seventh movie.
Like his second movie was French Connection.
Like what?
What he learned on French Connection is how to light in subway tunnels, which is, it was atechnique called flashing where he took the film and exposed it to light.

(22:27):
And it just brought out the details and sort of the darker shots, right?
Like that are only lit with bulbs going all the way back.
like if the, yeah, so if the bulbs are going straight back, like if you expose the filmitself to light,
you'll get the detail all the way back, even though you don't have to light what's in theforeground.
That is very interesting.

(22:48):
It's also his idea to shoot the movie in an anamorphic ratio, which at the time was 23.1,I'm sorry, 235 to one.
It's now 239 to one, but at the time it was 235.
His use of the camera too.
I read where in French Connection,
You got a lot of smooth pans that go across because he put the camera on a wheelchair.

(23:12):
he would be able to get a smooth, Steadicam wasn't invented yet.
It was only invented a few years later.
Like when 76 when Rocky and the Bound for Glory, the Woody Guthrie movie used theSteadicam for the first, and then Rocky it's most known of a marathon man all in 76.
But Reusman didn't have that in 71.
So he uses the wheelchair.

(23:33):
Well, if you notice in Pelham, there's a lot of shots that seem.
smooth kind of pans that seem to go where you can see he's using the same technique aswell.
So coupled with the lighting, great camera work, just the man.
The first setup in the train, the first lighting setup, he said, was easy peasy because ofthe bright lights.

(23:55):
So all he had to do was spray down the hot spots.
But the emergency lighting, which is setup two, how he managed to get all their faces litwas he taped
dentist mirrors to the back of the poles and put 25 watt bulbs on them.
Again, his seventh movie and he's like Inspector Gadget over here.

(24:16):
And yet again, as we were saying earlier, never won in a competitive Academy Award.
And yet you just gave exemplary things that this guy was pioneering.
Well, I'm going to play a clip from the film.
And this is the scene where Robert Shaw
goes to conductor, which by the way, the guy's kind of dressed like a train engineer,which is not real, Devin.

(24:44):
Like, you're not from here.
That's not a thing.
drag in the MTA was not a thing.
It's not a thing.
It might be a thing now, but it's not.
wasn't then.
So maybe Studio 54.
Someone came one time.
He's like the missing village person.
There was like construction guy, Indian guy.
Train engineer.

(25:04):
guy.
Yeah.
Exactly.
See it all.
He's like the bonus track on the Live and Sleazy album.
Here he goes.
He's like walking up to the train guy.
how am I supposed to see what you to Bermini's he pulled out a by the way to go you'retaking my

(25:38):
Earl Handman from Home Improvement.
All right, so I got to get into the music a little bit, right?
So this is that was David Shire, who is at the time he was Talia Shire's husband.
David Shire also did the score for The Conversation.
A year later, the president's men.
Two years later.
And then Saturday Night Fever, he did the incidental melody part that wasn't the Bee Gees.

(26:01):
Right.
Or Savaris, exactly.
Or Ivan Elamun.
Right.
Right.
It's great how it uses the music like it sounds like a rumbling train itself not to soundpretentious.
It's like New York itself.
It's like a character itself in the way that New York is a character in Manhattan, WoodyAllen's Manhattan.

(26:23):
There's something about the music is not just incidental ever.
The music creates the edge of your seat tension that's prevalent in most of this movie.
It does.
But two but definitely means gone.
know what?
We got a call.
yeah.
We haven't gotten a call in a couple of weeks.

(26:44):
We have not.
I don't remember how to pick up the line.
Is it a rotary?
Hello, Radio Free Reinkliff.
Hey, this is is Tony.
How's it going?
Hi, Tony.
Hello, Tony.
Hi, Tony.
Were you listening live?
Yeah, I was listening live.
I was just I was just inside of.

(27:04):
little bakery down the street and I just stepped outside as I was listening.
It getting real loud in there so I thought I would just, you know, was listening and Ifelt like calling in.
You guys were talking about one of my favorite films.
Which bakery were you at?
fantastic.
Yeah, was Bread Alone, know, it's on East Market Street.
yeah, and Rheinbeck, that's right.
Yeah, yeah.
So what were your takes on the film?

(27:26):
You enjoy it.
It's one of your favorites, you said?
Well, was, I don't love the film.
I'll be honest, I don't love the film, but I love the film because my grandfather, mygrandfather worked on the film.
So I love it for that reason.
I don't love the film, but I love it.
Who was your grandfather on the film?
So, so he was a grip on the film, but he also played a small role in the subway scene.

(27:52):
So if you blink, you'll miss them.
But you know, his name was Frankie Rattelli.
So my grandson, Frankie Rattelli, I'm Tony Rattelli.
And yeah, he was a grip.
He was a small part on the subway scene.
And yeah, I just have a lot of sentimental value for that film.
Between Mike and I, we know like every frame of this movie.
Like what scene in the subway is in?

(28:13):
I've been wrecking my brain.
He was like a background character.
He was a background character.
It's like a big scene.
You blink, he's gone.
That's all.
It's just like he was there, he's not there.
Is he in the tunnel?
Yeah, he's in the tunnel.
is in the tunnel again if you go back maybe frame by frame you'll see him but it's not abig deal like he was in the business for a long time was he no it was smaller role like a

(28:36):
hostage or a passerby or on the platform yeah something like a passerby it's a passerby orsomething like that you know it's whatever it's but like i said we're proud he was a grip
on the film
You can look him up again, Frankie Rattelli.
It was an extra.
yeah, we just, know, we listen.
I'm in the business still like it was, you know, my grandfather had his roots in the filmindustry and he was also a coach.

(28:57):
I don't know if you guys know this.
He why would you know this?
This is my story.
He was he coached Robert Shaw and Jaws.
Really?
You know, that Indianapolis monologue?
What hand and actually crafting that scene.
He went from grip to background.
I sure the coach he was he was a.
Well, he was Robert Shaw's acting coach.
Is that what you're saying?

(29:17):
Yeah, that's what I said.
Wow.
God.
Wow.
I'm have to look your grandfather.
Yes.
Grandpa.
He hustled.
He was a great guy.
He hustled.
He did a lot of things.
I was inspired.
And so I got into the business myself.
So I hear you guys talking about the take of the poem.
What do you do?
had this.

(30:00):
We're a little reserved, shall we say.
So I know what you're discussing, but yeah, that's why I giggled.
Yeah, I get it.
I get it.
It makes sense.
It makes sense.
Have you done this in pictures or television or?
A lot of law and order SVU, a lot of that, you know, those are kind the tough ones for theintimacy scenes is often, you know, graphic scenes that aren't so savory for people.

(30:25):
That's kind of one body of work.
I did some stone in the late 90s.
Yes.
Some commercial works and Pepsi's, you know, the intimacy coordinator.
It's a big role.
don't know if you guys know a lot about it.
I feel like we're kind of one of the best kept secrets in Hollywood.
you know what I'm Wow.
Wait.
Did you just say intimacy coordinator on a Pepsi commercial?

(30:46):
Is that what you said?
You remember that one with Caitlyn Jenner?
Oh yeah.
That thing was steamy.
It was steamy.
So, know, it's just one of those things.
Okay.
Just one of those things.
know, you do what you're called to do.
know, like, listen, let me let me tell you why I feel this work matters to me.
I to start there, Devon, because you seem like you're not a believer.

(31:07):
You seem like you know.
I'm sorry, Doug.
What are you I said, no, I said I'm fascinated by this.
I don't know anything about that kind of work at all.
know people who've been fired for not.
following the protocols of an intimacy.
Oh yeah, yeah, protocols.
I gotta tell you, know, do you know what the number one reason for being fired during anintimacy is?

(31:27):
I don't know if I want to know what is it?
Yeah, it's not not a heinous.
It's not it's not terrible, but it's uncomfortable.
It's when the zazic comes out of the ball back snatch.
You know, can't even say it without laughing.
It's terrible.
It's terrible.
It's terrible.
But it happens.
It's like a jack in the box.
Like it's like a surprise.
Yeah.

(31:48):
Yeah, it's like when you open a can of Pillsbury, you know, dope things.
Poppin' fresh.
Yeah, Mike's got it.
It's a poppin' fresh.
Yeah, like the surprise snakes.
What do they call them that were actually springs?
right.
It's it's supposed to be a can of peanuts, but then you open it up and exactly.
And it's just balls.
so the clap on you, right.

(32:09):
That's very important work.
That sounds very, very important.
Didn't Scorsese Scott once famously said, right, to...
his actresses when he was involved in intimate scenes with them, would say, I apologize ifmy, we'll use the terminology of what was it, if my snakes come out of the peanut can, and

(32:31):
I apologize if my snakes don't come out of the peanut can.
yeah, yeah, that's real respect right there.
Nope.
Wait, are you eating?
also say what is it?
Tony, are you eating?
Yeah, just yeah, just kind of like dumpster dive for some little snack just a few minutesago.
You know, just a little something to eat.

(32:52):
What you got to not actual dumpster diving.
Don't worry about it.
Is that like a figure of speech?
Yeah, as we say in the household, every time you try to find something in the ice box, youknow, you go dumpster dive and sometimes you find out just a little bit of garbage to you.
Tony, I have to ask you really quick because I'm still
sort of stuck on it because again, I know every frame of the movie.

(33:13):
Where was your grandfather in the film again?
Like if I was looking for it, it on a music cue or is it, where is the scene between?
It's more like if you could imagine early on when people are getting on the train, at somepoint in time, somewhere between the track and the train, you might have caught a glimpse
of them somewhere.

(33:34):
Does that make any sense?
Like he's just like, just a little something and he's there.
Between the track and the train?
Yeah.
The only thing between a track and a train that I remember even remotely in the movie isvermin.
Yeah, he was playing vermin.
That's who my grandfather was.
Wait, he was playing a rat?

(33:55):
I'm saying my grandfather was like Ratatouille.
That's what I'm saying.
OK, so what are you then?
I'm kind of a half human, half rat hybrid.
grandfather, a few generations later, you know, you...
you you had some cross-breeding happen.
you know, I'm a little, I'm not like Splinter from Ninja Turtle, but I'm of that ilk.

(34:16):
You're saying you're half rat, half human?
Yeah.
Okay.
Wait, and you live in Rhinebeck or Red Hook or Ryan Cliff?
Yeah, I live in Rhinebeck.
Sometimes I hang out between East Market Street.
Sometimes I go to South Street, you know, all over the downtown area.
You know, Montgomery is a lovely place.

(34:37):
Did you know that Krause's chocolate gives you a lot of really good if you ask him theright way?
I did not know that.
Well, that's the secret of living in Rhinebeck kid.
One of my big buddies, Jeff, you guys probably know who Jeff is.
One of my big buddies, Jeff.
He's a great dude, man.
He always, we're always hanging out.
It always gives me a bite to eat.
He's a good guy.
Lives right around there.

(34:58):
Jeff, which Jeff?
You know, Dean Morgan.
What?
Yeah.
So, so okay, Devon, Jeff, Jeffrey Dean Morgan does in fact live in town.
He's kind of everyone's friend.
told you that it's like a, it's a Rheinbeck problem.
Oh Where like you think you look good one day, but then you go to the store and.
Jeffrey Dean Morgan's like in the produce section and you got to like go off all the wayto the milk.

(35:21):
Yeah.
And you're like, so you're like friends with Jeff.
yeah.
We've got a lot of work together.
Really?
Why is everyone so surprised?
I'm tickled by how surprised everyone is.
Meanwhile, Mike's quiet as a mouse.
Sorry.
Yeah, we're not getting into my legacy yet exactly.

(35:42):
What is your legacy, Mike?
I'm being grilled.
I'm just a guest here.
Mike, what about you, man?
What's going on in your world?
Oh, you're a guest as well.
right.
right.
So same page.
Well, I just assume because it's Jeffrey Dean Morgan that if you guys worked together alot, you had to worked on stuff that we've seen.
Right.
mean, that's why I was like, really, listen, any movie where he's been intimate with otherpeople, you can just assume I helped that happen.

(36:10):
Just pick a film that he was in.
I don't know.
I was going to say, I feel like I'm too stunned to think right now.
Well, he's kind of a TV guy, really.
Yeah, he's in the boys.
Listen, we did some work on Walking Dead.
We did some stuff on Supernatural.

(36:30):
I mean, you know, right.
Supernatural.
Yeah.
He was trying to get Hillary Swank at one point in that Irish musical thing.
P.S.
I love you.
Right.
Oh, that's right.
I forgot about that.
Yeah.
Let me tell you what.
He had no problem with Hillary.
I you know, it's no big deal.
He kept the together.
But you know what?
You know, I got to be there.

(36:50):
We're we're OK.
Listen, I feel like I got to go.
Oh, you gotta go.
right.
All right.
Well, listen, I appreciate that you called in and that's really cool.
I, nice to meet you.
It was good to meet you, Mike, Devin.
It was great.
I know you are amazed to have a phone and a job.
know it's weird, but here we are.
I really love that you listened to the show.

(37:11):
I appreciate that very much.
And I hope you call back soon.
grandfather, what your grandfather did, props to your granddad.
Thank you.
He's a great band.
He's great.
All right.
Well, you guys have a good one.
Keep the keep the show up, man.
It was great.
It's Love it.
Love you.
See, yeah, that's they say.
The rap.
Thanks a lot, man.
Bye now.

(37:33):
A rap man just called in and told us he was an intimacy coordinator.
I know.
I don't think it's that big a deal.
It was weird.
Not Rimeback Dev.
Things like that happen all the time.
So let's just forget it.
We'll move on.
Exactly.
And we'll talk about the end of the picture.
Okay.
So the end, feel like we really get into the like earlier when we were discussing the likeit's kind of more than one film happening at the same time.

(38:00):
Right.
And I feel like most of the end gets real aggressive into that.
It is an action heist movie.
Right.
Yes.
And so like the way we're getting through.
like the ridiculousness of, you know, them all getting, you know, trying to get out.
They're going to try to get out with their money.
And Mr.
Gray is, I mean, let's be honest.
We know from the moment Mr.

(38:21):
Gray opens his mouth, he's not going to make it because he's a complete douche canoe.
Right.
And nobody's going to let that fly.
Right.
And of course, they're like, get his money.
Get Gray's money.
Right.
Yeah.
Immediately.
Immediately.
And so they're all trying to get one.
Even the bloody money.
Yeah.
Even the bloody money.
So they're all trying to get out, right?
pops Mr.

(38:42):
Gray.
And Mr.
Green gets away with all the money, Martin Balsam.
Yes.
Well, and before that, obviously, Mr.
Brown, so whatever guy with a gun has managed to get down into the tunnel, you know, takesout...
The undercover cop that jumped off the train.
that's right.
Yeah, so he takes out...

(39:02):
off the train and he gets the one, one of the guys.
Yeah.
So he takes out Mr.
Brown, who's just like, and Mr.
Brown's like clearly the least important of the four heist guys.
He has like maybe two lines of dialogue.
Yeah.
Well, remember, we never saw his face on Home Improvement.
That's his, that was Tim Allen's neighbor for all those years.

(39:23):
The guy we never saw his face and like this.
Well, he's just as unexciting here because yes, because he's barely there.
Improvement was the worst show ever, exactly.
Like you say, that the one with the weakest link?
Yeah, yeah.
It's the one to watch that.
But he has a real Yeoman Johnson vibe.

(39:43):
The weakest link is definitely Earl Hinman's character, Mr.
Brown.
I agree.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So then he goes.
So then Mr.
Blue's like, OK, Mr.
Green, go ahead.
We're going to, you know, I'm going to go take out this other guy.
And so the whole interaction with him trying to take out the other guy.
And then when he runs into Walter Matao and Walter Mathau.

(40:04):
Uh, what does he say?
Um, excuse me.
Uh, please turn around and drop your gun.
Like he's so weirdly polite about like, pardon me.
You need to drop it.
I've got a gun on you.
You need to drop it.
And then he was, Mr.
Blue was just like so calm and collected the whole time.

(40:24):
And it was like, Oh, no, no death penalty in New York.
Nevermind.
I shall commit suicide.
Like rail via.
He was a mercenary remember I mean he does mention early in the movie that his characterwas a bounty hunter mercenary guy who remembered he mentions how he couldn't even get paid

(40:47):
enough to make one killing he was so good so I could kind of see how and and we weresaying earlier how he's the only one who's so serious in the movie he even dies in very
serious way.
there's some really great behind the scenes stuff with that too, like where his specialeffects in his boots because it kept going off.

(41:11):
It's pretty funny.
Real quick before we get to the very end, one of the things that kills me in the film, andit's just real quick, it's when the of rap sheets on all the characters that have died
because, know, again, Mr.
Green has gotten away at this point.
Right.
they're them the Joe.
Welcome.

(41:31):
Yeah.
That is what I'm going to say.
Yeah.
So, Mr.
Gray, they're like, they give us real name.
They're like, what's his real name in it?
Hector Elizondo, the famous character has three names.
It's Mr.
Gray.
Yeah.
Well, there's no, yeah.
Giuseppe, right.
Giuseppe something.
And it is Joe.
Well, he's like, AKA Joe.
Welcome.
And that made me laugh.

(41:52):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, the book flushes a lot more.
The book, there's no color names in the book at all.
So the character names in the book.
So the character of Robert Shaw is Cold Rider.
And even on the radio, he's known.
So they're already known as their names in the book.
The ending of the book is very different too.

(42:13):
There's no sneezing, which is a great touch, course, the way the movie ends with thesneeze.
Marne Bolson's sneeze is great touch.
So, Devin, let's get to the Yeah.
That's the thing I have to discuss is, I mean, it is
Completely evident from the very beginning of the movie that mr.
Green sneezing is clearly Chekhov's gun So yeah, I am sorry, but when we're getting there,there's no surprise We absolutely know that he's gonna sneeze and that's how they're gonna

(42:42):
figure out.
He's the guy what killed me is The like alright, we'll see you around and off they walkout the door and then he sneezes and he's like cuz I'm tight and then he walks back in and
Malta math out gives that
stupid face that Walter Mathau want want face and it was like that's a question to endthis?
It's a face that is not yet a meme but it should be.

(43:06):
Yes.
should be.
Yeah.
should be.
No, but what's great is the what's great is before that even happens is uh Mr.
Green doing the indecent proposal Scrooge McDuck thing with the money.
He's like swimming in the money.
He's like yeah.
And then the way he says, like, who, he gets cut by the knock at the door while he's inhis glory.

(43:32):
He's like, who, Transit Cop, who?
He puts it like on the top blanket, right?
He just like wraps all the money up and throws it in the oven.
And then Jerry Stiller, who we haven't spoken about, the great Jerry Stiller, course, isRico Petrone with
A lot of comic relief in that he supplies in that movie when he goes right he goes and hewants to a cigarette at the stove and Martin Balsam is like, oh no, no, I'll get it.

(44:03):
I'll get it.
Cause he's right, he would have earned the money.
And then it would have been like Ocean's Eleven, the ending of Ocean's Eleven.
Spoiler alert for those who to that.
Same kind of thing.
up the Oh my gosh.
It's a wonderful, it's a wonderful ending.
I do know it's funny.
I mean, we were much younger when we first saw it.
So I didn't see that ending coming at all.
It's like, you know, I, I watched the movie.

(44:26):
I've seen it so many times.
I watched it in full about a couple of months ago with an ex girlfriend of mine.
She never saw it before.
And she felt the same way you did at the end, Devon.
She was like, is that it?
She's like, that's how it ends.
She was all like mad.
She's like, that's it.
That's I sat through this.
And that's how it ends.
That's it.

(44:47):
And I wanted to like pull out the novel and go, it doesn't end like that in the novel.
Maybe there's something, in fact, as an aside, spoiler alert for those that haven't readthe novel, the novel ends with a little foot chase.
So you can imagine that Martin Mawson character, the way he's all like out of shape and helooks all downright emaciated, being chased by Garber.

(45:10):
And he's on the roof of that building.
He's in that tenement.
He comes down a fire escape, jumps down, lands
on the landing of the sidewalk there, turns around and there's Walter Matthau's characterand he just says, surprise.
And that's the end of how the book ended.
So it's a little lesson of that kind of corny, like you're saying.
And I'll give you that.

(45:31):
I'll play devil's advocate.
I'll agree with you.
There is kind of a, it always seems like a writer's convenience ending there where it'slike, how do I this thing?
Okay, you know what?
Let's just throw it in here.
But.
I'm nostalgic for the movie.
to me, that ending is like, I love that ending.
I mean, it was funny.
It gave me a real like I really laughed because

(45:54):
Cause that was the part I wasn't expecting.
Cause I absolutely, like I said, absolutely that sneeze with Chekhov's gun.
And I was like, this is happening.
when Walter popped his head back in, was like, my God, you gotta be kidding.
was like, that's hilarious.
If any of us right now looked at our cameras and tried to do that face, we would regret itforever.

(46:15):
Yes, Yes, we would.
at when he does that, you can only imagine seeing that in the theater at the time and themuttering of everybody as they shoot into the lobby of like, can you believe that ending?
Like that's the ending or like.

(46:37):
we're saying that was amazing.
Like there was some kind of division of that way that it's like it makes a soprano'sending.
Now I didn't realize the soprano's ending looks credible more compared to this.
I see that.
my God.
don't agree with I think that the ending is like to me it reminds me of tempo wise and wedon't get into the detail of it but if city lights it's the ending of it in a different

(47:03):
way.
It's like da da da da da jazz hands and we're
done.
yeah, right.
And it kind of, you know, that's a, that's a good point.
It kind of gives the same punch, the way the movie opens.
The movie opens kind of with a boom with the music and then it ends with a tuba.
And then it ends with kind of a Moroccan.

(47:24):
It ends with Moroccans, right?
The Moroccans are at the end.
then into the reprise.
Before we get to the next bit, like I
Just want to say, like, I think this movie is airtight.
It's not even two hours long.
Like this episode might be longer than the movie.
Like, it's airtight.

(47:45):
And even the way the sneeze is foreshadowed and a lot of things are foreshadowed in thismovie.
It all plays out like music.
in a way, of course, as an audience member, we want Mathow to catch him.
Of course.
Well, it's now time, guys.
for America's Favorite Segments.

(48:07):
And of course I'm talking about, let's franchise this comma baby.
Okay, if you're just tuning in, this is the part of the show where we repurpose theexisting content that we're talking about.
In this case, that would be the film, The Taking of Pelham 123, the original 1974 joint.

(48:28):
Right.
So what did you think we should do with this film?
Okay, so I've got some real opinions.
So having never seen this before, I watched the film and although how it may have sounded,I actually did enjoy it.
I really did actually enjoy it myself.
um, despite the crazy roller coaster, but I knew we were going to talk about sequel, uh,sequel or remake or whatever.

(48:52):
And I thought, well, this has been remade.
So I started digging into, I wanted to look up the 2009 remake with obviously DenzelWashington and John Travolta.
However, I've never seen it either.
I have.
Is it as horrible as we think it is?
Uh, worse.
So you share an opinion with Jesus.

(49:12):
That's awesome.
Yeah, okay.
Tony Scott, the late Tony Scott directed it.
And we know that Tony is not Ridley.
Tony's movies were, you know, Days of Thunder and Top Gun, believe, right?
Top Gun.
the movie is exactly...

(49:33):
Dollar Tree Ridley Scott.
know, and it's like, the thing is with this movie, it's not Travolta's fault.
Denzel, of course, is always going to be
He's always gonna save almost anything he's in.
He does.
He's no Mathau either.
And in fact, there's so many things that we've been on time for that I could go into aboutit to tell you how awful it is.

(49:54):
But James Gandolfini plays the mayor.
So there's something at least cool about that.
So for me, anytime I see Gandolfini in anything now, I'm always enjoying whatever I'mseeing him in.
But he doesn't, nothing is played, cynical.
The camera moves constantly like every time.
Tony Scott literally, it's like as if the camera is on a Jaguar and it's just roaming allover the set.

(50:20):
Oh, wow, that sounds frustrating.
Right.
And it's loud and it's annoying and there's no tension and it's highly recommended.
Of course it's highly recommended.
It's really bad.
It's very bad.
So go ahead.
OK.
So as I'm looking this up and no, I did not watch that version as I'm Googling basically Idiscovered that there's a third version that there's a second time the first time it was

(50:51):
remade was in 1998 and at that the 2009 one is actually like the second remake and so thenI was like Okay, how off like how are we gonna talk about?
Remaking or making a sequel of this movie if it's already been made three times
So then I thought, well, okay, I'll watch the 1998 version, because I really didn't wantto sit through the 2009 version.
And so the 1998 version is very nearly verbatim, the 74 one.

(51:17):
It's, let's see, Vincent D'Onofrio is Mr.
Blue.
on paper works.
Which on paper works.
And it a TV movie.
Was it a TV movie?
Yeah, it was a TV movie.
Okay.
Richard Schiff is Mr.
Green and my husband loves West Wing.
he, so we definitely know Richard Schiff in our house.

(51:37):
Tara Roslyn, a gal is Mr.
Brown.
And I actually did enjoy, they do call her Mr.
Brown the whole film.
They don't call her Mrs.
Brown or Mrs.
Brown.
It's Mr.
Brown the whole film.
And then of course you are in the movie, Digg, because Mr.
Gray is played by one Donnie Wahlberg, who is your doppelganger.
And then Edward James Olmos is the detective.

(52:00):
So that's where there was like one kind of big change is he's like Detective AnthonyPiscotti or something.
He's not Garber.
It was weird.
Is that the book name?
No, no, he's still like Garber.
Because then, yeah, because then I did end up looking up the character names for the 2009movie and Denzel Washington is Garber.

(52:26):
He so then it goes back to Garber.
But in the 2009 version, they use the actual names from the book.
So it's writer John Travolta's writer.
And I forget the other guy's names, but the 1998 one is in the TV version as well.
I, yes, I think so.
Um, the music is done by Stuart Copeland.
And one other credit that I read was, and this is, I'm just reading it verbatim, BobbyO'Neill as homeboy on subway.

(52:52):
That's what it So it says in the credits of the film.
Yeah, Yeah, 90s folks.
don't know.
90s, okay.
So I, so no joke.
we are now, entertain us, et cetera.
So, okay, so basically no joke, I watched the 74 and the 98 versions two days in a row.

(53:13):
I've like specifically watched them close together.
They're very nearly like, as far like structure and all that, it's all very nearly exactlythe same.
Dialogue is almost exactly the same.
And it is like,
Vincent D'Onofrio was the only one being serious, right?
Just like Robert Shaw, right?
The only one being serious throughout the whole thing.
let's see.

(53:34):
Yeah, I don't know.
So there's kind of all these elements and the ending is exactly the same.
Richard Schiff sneezes and Edward James, almost.
then, crud, it's not, there's a gal who plays the other, the other cop, the, Jerry Stillercop.
And they both lean back in the door together and they're like, wah, wah, except they say,God bless you.

(53:58):
They don't say, because at height, but otherwise it's like exactly the same thing.
And Richard Schiff does the like, I'm going to rub all the money of myself in bed.
And it's so weird.
Okay.
So basically I watch these two movies and I'm like, and then I already know there's the2009 version, right?
So then I'm thinking to myself, what the is this?

(54:19):
And I know you have to bleep me out.
What the is this?
is this like a, it like, is this a star is born?
Do we just need to keep remaking the same film over and over again?
Is Lady Gaga going to be in the next version?
Is that what's happening?
We're just going to franchise this.

(54:41):
Exactly.
we go.
Lady.
There we go.
So now my thought is something different than we've done before.
I think we should do a prequel.
because I don't think we can remake this film again.
I think we have to do a prequel and...
Directed by Bradley Cooper.
Hear me out, hear me out.

(55:02):
I feel like if we do a prequel, right?
Because it can't be the gang meeting up and plotting this case.
No, no, no, no.
Do you know what a backdoor sequel is?
Like the color of money is kind of a backdoor sequel, right?
Like if you've never saw The Hustler, it's an amazing movie, but if you saw The Hustler,it's even better.

(55:23):
Gotcha.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
So maybe we made the prequel sort of just wrapped around Mr.
Blue's story.
Yes.
And maybe at the end he meets Mr.
Brown or something at the very end and has an idea for a train heist or something.
Right.
Or Martin Balsam's character, how he got fired with the transport and drugs on the

(55:47):
The trains.
Right.
Something almost like an origin story, like Mr.
Blue's origin story.
Right.
So it's like he has an uncle Ben and he's got to do wrestling to be able to save Walter.
I see.
That'd be perfect.
Yeah.
He's bitten by a radioactive Brit or like a radioactive rat like Tony.

(56:09):
Right.
Right.
Right.
Right.
Maybe maybe or that would be the other option.
We just remake the taking of Hell in 123, but with half human, half rat people.
OK, I'm going to go with prequel.
I'm going to go with prequel.
I say we call it Mr.
Blue.
Mr.
Blue.

(56:29):
OK.
All right.
I'm just going give you I'm going to give you my two options.
Mr.
Either Gary Oldman or Joaquin Phoenix is what I got.
Oh, OK.
Well, how about Gary Oldman plays the young Mr.
Blue?
and Joaquin Phoenix plays the older Mr.

(56:50):
when Mr.
Blue is in...
Do you mean the opposite?
Well, no, no, you know, they're both Academy Award winners.
can play anybody.
They can do anything.
These guys can do anything.
can do anything.
Mike's over here making like a Benjamin Button scenario.
Right, just think about it.
You have Gary Oldman playing Sid Vicious.

(57:10):
And then Winston Churchill.
mean, could that be the furthest apart of Britain?
Like right there.
Right.
So who you have Devin for Mr.
Blue?
Okay.
I was way more chill than that.
was going Jake Gillen.
Well, no, like, like you just took it up to the top.
First of all, I don't think like
We've only been doing let's franchise this comma baby for a little while now.

(57:33):
I don't think we waste Gary Oldman this early.
I think we save him for something top notch.
Not Mr.
Blue's origin story.
I'm Cash Money Hoes.
I this to work right now.
I mean, well, the Muppet movie remake, you're right.
For Oldman, we need to save him for the right.
So mean, that's he's going to do the Michael Caine.

(57:55):
No, no, no.
OK, that's a whole nother episode because we aren't going to remake the Muppet ChristmasCarol.
Yeah.
No, no, we're not doing that.
No, because everybody already knows that there's like some subreddit out there about othermovies that should be done exactly the same with the Muppets.
As far as like the whole reason the Muppet Christmas Carol works is because Michael Caineplays it straight.

(58:15):
Yeah.
And so what other movies we want to see where one person is straight and the rest of theMuppets anyway, so it's the revenge, obviously, clearly, 100 percent.
So my pick for Mr.
Blue is Jake Gyllenhaal.
And again, because I think, I think, right, I think we saved Gary Oldman for something alittle bit more significant than Mr.

(58:36):
Blue's origin story.
Like a cat-a-shack, like a cat-a-shack remade.
Exactly.
He plays a Bill Murray character.
How'd you like to earn $14 the hard way?

(59:01):
right.
Anyway, I'm sorry.
Yeah, Jill and all is Jake.
Jill and all is good.
I feel like right.
He could be serious, a little serious, a little gritty.
I would see him as a mercenary.
feel like he's believable as a mercenary.
The only thing is, I realized that's the only character we for sure could cast because wedon't know that we bring in the other people.

(59:26):
Maybe he meets Mr.
Brown along the way as he's like the muscle, right?
Oh, okay.
Or maybe there's a twist because he's so silent in Pelham that he's actually the brains ofthe thing.
that could be very good.
Like Mr.
Brown is kind of his, because if you look at between him and Brown in Palom, like he'svery much orders him like, take care of this.

(59:50):
like, he's very like, simpatico with Brown.
So that's why Gray is so angry.
That is interesting.
And then he passes over Gray.
And that's why Gray is so pissed off throughout the whole movie, like he is in the movie.
Who do we cast?
Who do we cast as Brown?
I think you guys need to go first because I think my choice is goofy.

(01:00:13):
Okay, go ahead Mike.
What do you got?
I mean, you know, like maybe McKaylee Culkin would always, you know, he could nail that.
I love Mac.
You know what?
I'll put Mac in anything.
Mac could play the Millennium Falcon.
Mac could play anything.
I love Mac.
I'll go with Daniel Craig though.
Okay, that would be good too.

(01:00:33):
That would be good too.
I like that.
Yeah.
actually, I I really like shooting Sergeant Rock currently.
yeah.
Maybe we don't go with him then.
Right.
Yeah.
He's busy right now.
We got to get shooting like now.
I need this right now.
Yeah.
recall the catering will be there in the morning.

(01:00:55):
Right.
All the pastry is going to be there at 9 a.m.
We have to hurry.
And the three of us will be at the Crab Services table going, script?
Just go.
Right.
Just go.
What are you talking about?
So just for the heck of it then, if for some reason Garber somehow was in this movie, whowould play Walter Mathow?
Now that's the...

(01:01:17):
I don't know where Garber would fit in the movie, but...
I mean, Robert Downey Jr.
If we're being serious about...
casting.
Robert Downey Jr.
has that, I'm just thinking that sarcastic, smarmy way that usually he does have.
if we're talking jokingly...
Let's cast Robert Downey Jr.
because he's kind of a douche.

(01:01:38):
Exactly.
Okay.
I like that.
That's not bad.
I like that.
That's not bad at all.
didn't even, I didn't pick anybody for Garber because I just thought if I'm doing aprequel, I don't know...
Yeah, I don't know that.
Yeah, I tried to do the other the rest of the crew just in case.

(01:02:02):
Right.
Even though I didn't think we would probably use all of them.
but you have to be of British people then because if we if it's focusing on blue and thatwould he'll still be in Britain or in England at the time probably.
Right.
Actually, did he say he was didn't he say he was in India even I think in the movie hesaid or something like that he was in Africa or

(01:02:23):
He said he's a mercenary, right?
So I think we can put him anywhere.
Anywhere.
True.
Anywhere.
Yeah, is true.
We can tell any story we want with him as long as he's the mercenary.
that's that's so I mean, if you're a scriptwriter, that's and you have that character andyou can make do anything with him.
That's kind of a gold mine.

(01:02:44):
So Robert De Niro is the the limo driver.
I don't know what that means, Right.
Zendaya is the limo.
Yes.
It's the limo.
Robert Jenner is the limo driver.
Right.
We got to sell this movie, kids.
We do.

(01:03:04):
We do.
I know.
I do like this idea of like maybe whatever mercenary job he is on prior to Pelham.
And then like you say, having Mr.
Brown sort of be like
Oh, he is the brains of the operation.
the of them are the only ones who survived whatever the job was.
Oh, I like that too.

(01:03:25):
Yeah, like that.
Yeah.
And you need an American to kind of be the proxy to the subway thing, because it'spossible that Mr.
Blue might not even know what the New York subway is.
mean, there are people who live in other countries that don't even really know.
Like I'm saying that he might not even have ever thought he might think in England, hey,we can rob the tube.

(01:03:45):
But it would have taken probably someone like Mr.
Brown to be like, I got a great idea.
Right.
Like I a better idea because.
Small vulnerable.
Yeah.
Small vulnerable.
Period.
Let's go.
Period.
Let's bring them back to 1971 in the prequel.
I like that.
OK.
Yeah.
Let's do that.
Oh, yeah.

(01:04:06):
That's good.
Yeah.
No, that's the 80s.
No, that's right around the time you talk about.
Oh, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right around that time.
you know what I got?
You know what I got to confuse with?
Not the yeah, the Falkland Islands.
That's the 80s.

(01:04:27):
That's Margaret Thatcher.
That's the Iron Lady.
That's Meryl Streep's territory.
So I was going, I was going like English conflict.
Let's make a, let's make a America in London.
There you go.
Exactly.
They were that first.
I had never graduated, but yeah, I think that as a director, I think I have a really good,a person who would give it a great.

(01:04:53):
Yes.
Edgar Wright.
would give it a slick ass.
Oh yeah, he'd be perfect.
It would have a foot in Pelham, but it would be his own thing.
And it would be signature enough to where it would still be marketable now and also reallyfun.
Who should we score it?
Huh?

(01:05:14):
Moby.
Who?
Moby.
You know, interestingly, I don't know his name, but.
The guy who did the soundtrack for Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul was really amazing,actually.
Every week was really Can we get a look up on that?
I don't know his name.
Let's get a up on that, because I agree with And I'm not sure if it's the same guy thatdid Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, but whoever he is, he'd be good at it too.

(01:05:39):
Dave Porter?
Yeah, Dave Porter.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Let's do that.
And his stuff too.
like it.
ambient and funky sometimes and a little of everything.
he can get close enough to the original soundtrack to some extent without having to borrowit.

(01:06:00):
like...
Yeah, absolutely.
I'm not a big Hans Zimmer fan.
What I appreciated about his Blade Runner was he leaned into the Vangelis a bit.
So it's like close enough to where he paid homage to Vangelis.
Ken Thorne is doing with Superman 2.

(01:06:22):
John Williams didn't score Superman 2, but Ken Thorne took John Williams Superman 1 scoreand he made it his own.
And that's probably been done in a couple of Rocky films.
I don't think Bill Conti scored every one of them in the same.
I know exactly what you're saying.
When you take an existing thing and you- close enough where you borrow flavors from it.
But you make it your own, basically.

(01:06:43):
Right.
So he would be good.
whoever we say.
think we settled this.
want to miss the blooper equal.
Yeah, I think I think this is a good idea.
So Edgar Wright's directing Jake Gyllenhaal is starring starring.
It's going to take place in 1971 in Cambodia.

(01:07:03):
Dave Porter's doing the music and are we settled on Daniel Craig is Mr.
Brown.
I like it.
Okay.
This is good.
All right.
Well, good.
So that's
Hollywood, are you listening?
Somebody get out there and make it or give us the dough and we'll get it made.
So that's our show this week.
Thank you for having me, by the way.

(01:07:24):
Thank you very much.
you are very welcome.
I was just going to say thank you for joining us.
Yeah.
Thanks for joining us, Mike.
Thank you.
Thank you, Devon.
Thank you, Doug.
You're very welcome.
Mike is Wikipedia Brown.
Yes, yes, you are.
Brown.
I'm Mr.
Brown.
Yes, yes.
There we go.
That's right.
You know what?
You please come back as Joe.

(01:07:46):
Welcome.
I promise you got it.
I'm so excited that Mike joined us on the show.
It is filled me with a sentiment I can only liken to alchemy.
And I'm very, very, very happy and filled with emotions that are boring for the rest ofyou.

(01:08:10):
But I assure you.
I am.
I have lot of quality for us.
Yes.
Yes.
Very, very quality.
might need an NBC coordinator.
that's what I'm Tony, definitely call back now.
But next week we are going to be doing to live and die in L.A.

(01:08:34):
and we're allegedly being joined by Devin's brother, Cody Ramone.
Yep.
Yep.
Cody is supposed to come back for a visit.
To live and die in LA.
Who shot To Live and Die in LA?
Devin, who was that guy?
Well, just think about who directed it.
That is one Billy Freakin.
That is one Billy Freakin.

(01:08:54):
And we're taking the back door into Billy Freakin's catalog, right?
We're not starting with exorcist.
We're not starting with the French.
Right, right, right.
I thought that was a joke about cruising, No, we're not doing, yeah, we're not, yeah.
So, you were going to start with this one, but is by one Robbie Mueller.

(01:09:15):
It is shot by Robbie Mueller.
Yes.
Mueller.
Mueller.
I'm sorry.
You don't want to get that comment.
Mueller.
Mueller.
Mueller.
Well, thank you guys for joining us on Studio Property.
say goodbye.
Goodbye.
I'm Doug Wartell.
I'm Devin Irby.
And C.

(01:09:35):
Studio Property is mixed at Spillway Street Content in Red Hook, New York and syndicatedon Radio Free Reinkliffe.
Themed song by The Corner Bodega.
Be sure to subscribe to the podcast and follow us on Instagram at Studio Property Show.
Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next week.

(01:10:01):
Spill away street!