Ellen Rohr and Al Levi: Mastering the Art of Business Collaboration

Episode Transcript
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Corey Berrier (00:01):
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Berrier,and I'm here with my two
favorite people, Ellen Rohr andAl Levy.
What's up y'all, how you doingGood?

Al Levy (00:12):
How about you Doing good?
We got the country pretty wellcovered today the East Coast
with you and then a littlefurther north.
When I look up, ellen's up inUtah somewhere.
She's not traveling the wholeworld, which she does.

Ellen Rohr (00:25):
I'm in Utah today.

Al Levy (00:27):
Yeah, and I'm anchoring Arizona, so we're good
.

Yeah, we're good.
So those that may not know whothe two of you are just probably
not too many people just giveme a quick rundown of what you
do each, and then also what yourcombined efforts have been in
the past.

Ellen Rohr (00:48):
You start out, you go first.

Al Levy (00:50):
Yeah, so I was born in the trade, as Ellen told me one
day and I was sharing a storyagain with Natalie, my wife, and
when they were talking aboutnepotism and things of that
nature, ellen turns to me insome meeting where we're out
together and she goes.
I was born with a silver spoon.
And I looked at her and I go,that's true, but mine was

(01:10):
covered with fuel oil, that'strue.
So I grew up in the trades veryyoung my family's business
plumbing, heating, cooling,electric on Long Island, new
York for the little accent thatI have left.
I worked all those years.
I gave my brothers three yearsnotice which is the famous story
to get all the systems in placeand people in place.

(01:31):
And then I moved out here toArizona and then I did
one-to-one consulting on my ownMany times.
We actually did a thingtogether called the Alan L Show,
and as Alan was in the front ofthe room and I was sitting
there with my writer, kim, she'sgoing on about financials and
knowing what you're talkingabout and I said, kim, come

(01:53):
outside with me a minute and wego outside.
And I said, kim, I justrealized something.
She goes what I could do, asuccessful operation and the
patient will die if they don'tdo what Ellen does as well.
And so that's how we gotco-consulting together.

Ellen Rohr (02:11):
And it's funny we met.
Now we have different stories.
We fuss all the time.
This is my work husband, al, sowe never remember the stories
exactly the same way.
But as I remember it, I soldhim a membership to Contractors
2000, now Nexstar.
So this is going back in theday.
He's an OG and I was thesalesperson.

(02:34):
And we have a mutual friend,dan Hollihan.
If you're in the Northeast oryou're into hydronics, this is
the guy.
In fact he just received aLifetime Achievement Award.
I saw, and well-deserved.
Dan Holland has brought a lotof people together in the
industry and me and Al are twoof those folks.
And when we go out to dinner Isigned him up for Service Titan,

(02:55):
the Service Titan forContractors 2000 for a
membership.
And he calls me we're going tothe first super meeting together
.
And he calls me and he says,well, I'd like to go out to
dinner and I'm like, great,that'd be nice, get to know each
other a little bit.
So I've sent you an agenda.
There is an agenda for dinner,for coffee, for the first 15

(03:16):
minutes.
Al is a very disciplined personand over the years, al, you've
had a very good effect on me.
So I appreciate so much theorder, the systems, the sanity.
We all believe we should wearbracelets that just say what
would Al do and do what Al tellsus to do.
Me and all of Al's clients overthe years have just decided

(03:40):
that if he said it, it's right,so you might as well just do it.
And we ended up with a reallygreat partnership.
Over the years we came in andout of each other's lives.
We're best friends all the way,but professionally we chose to
do some joint ventures togetherand a lot of the times it was
working with the same clients.
I would help with the financialpiece and Al would do marketing
operations.
Vision strategy, the sevenpower concept Of the seven power

(04:06):
concepts, I do one and Al doessix, and it was a very fruitful.

Al Levy (04:09):
She actually does too, don't you, I do too.

Ellen Rohr (04:11):
That's right, we share one.
So I married a plumber.
This is how I got into thetrades.
I wasn't born into it with fueloil, but I married a plumber
and that's how I got into it.
And what happened to me happensto a lot of moms and a mom and
pop shop situation.
I got stuck with the books.
I didn't like it, I wasterrible at it, and all we did

(04:32):
was lose money and fight.
So, with the help of some greatmentors, I figured out my asset
from my elbow and started to putsimple financial systems in a
place like charge more than itcosts, come up with a reasonable
selling price, pay attention tothe balance sheet and the
profit loss.
These simple procedures changedmy life, made me a wealthy

(04:54):
woman, and now I preach.
That's really what I do, andover the years we've done it
with our individual consultantsand clients.
We started Zoom Drain together.
Al was our original investor atZoom Drain.
Thank you very much, al, forthe lift.
And now I'm at Service Titanwith this big, broad megaphone
and an opportunity to share farand wide.

(05:16):
I love being able to visit onpodcasts.
Once upon a time we looked attrade magazines to get a clue
and they're still relevant, butpodcasts and chat, gpt and all
these other ways that we canfind information has really
changed the game for the better,I think.

Al Levy (05:34):
It has.
But, like most things, it's adouble-edged sword in my opinion
, and I always am so empathetic,gauri, to contractors today
Because we thought we had a loadof information.
We had a garden hose.
You guys have a fire hose ofinformation that's just pouring
at you between social media andtrade groups, and there are a

(05:55):
thousand more shows a year thanwhat I attended and I thought I
went to a lot of shows.
So there's a great amount ofinformation.
And all that I share with you isif you don't have a system and
obviously I advocate the sevenpowers for some reason it's as a
building blocks, but as afilter, because otherwise you're
going to hear a lot of greatinformation.

(06:15):
But it doesn't all fit together.
And I have modernized fromFrankenstein because I realized
people they're out there, theydon't know who Frankenstein is.
So I go.
It's basically a dream car.
Would you, if I gave you thepower to build a dream car?
Would you take a four chassis,toyota engine, hyundai seats?
Of course not, but we do thatall day by pulling stuff from
everywhere and it doesn'tnecessarily fit.

(06:38):
So your charge people who arelistening to this podcast is you
have to know the person thatI'm listening to.
Are they a genius or an idiot?
And that is not easy.
The only way to know, though,is testimonials is really a big
thing, and Ellen and I havealways understood and Dan
Hollihan, who literally took meby the side one time and goes

(07:01):
hey Al, what you would have tosay about how great you are is
mildly interesting to me.
What I really want to hear issomebody else who's like me,
what they have to say about whatyou are and what you did and
what it is, and I never forgotthat lesson.

Well, it's interesting that you say that,
because I often see we're all ina lot of the same Facebook
groups and a lot of informationgets handed out and a lot of
people learn from these Facebookgroups, but the one question
that they're not asking is theydon't know well, what did this

(07:39):
person put into the businessbefore they started it?
How did they start the business?
What you know, they don'treally know behind the curtain
how these decisions are being.
These suggestions are beinggiven and without context.
I don't know how you take thesuggestions from someone that

(08:00):
you don't know, because youdon't know what they're dealing
with.
You don't know what you don'tknow.
Do they start with a pile ofmoney?
Did they not start with a pileof money?
Because, that's two entirelydifferent perspectives.

Al Levy (08:16):
So you're telling me that one size advice doesn't fit
everybody.
I have to write that down.
No, it's so true.
It is so true.
I will say one quick thingbefore I switch to Ellen is one
way is, if you're in some reallygood, trusted groups and you
pose a question, the volume ofwhat you get and the people that
are responding and the way thatthey're responding and Ellen

(08:38):
has a great example is eithermaking the light bulb brighter
or the light bulb dimmer.
So I'll let Ellen take it fromthere.

Ellen Rohr (08:47):
Yeah, yeah, I think a lesson I learned Al gives me
credit for this, but I got itfrom Jim Abrams once upon a time
, another great mentor of mine.
He said the simpler you make it, the further you can take it.
And I feel like, especially asI've lived a long time, been in
the industry now for 40 yearswhich is just bananas.
I fight fancy all the time.

(09:07):
It isn't a lack of informationfor people, it's a lack of
implementation.
And so, like my and my personaljourney went like this First I
had to figure out the money.
It was like Maslow's hierarchyof needs.
Until we had enough money tosurvive day to day and just like
get a breath, there was reallynothing I could do.

(09:28):
And if you're thinking aboutraising your prices and all
those implications and you'rethinking, oh, maybe I should, I
should be better before I canraise my prices, you're already
better, you're already goodenough and you have to raise
your prices now to afford thementor, the group, the seminar,
the direct, the help you'regoing to need.
Raise your prices to be able tochoose a path and settle in on

(09:53):
some information and then thenext step so handle the money
and then the next step is getstuff done, and Alan is skinny
little book.
Seven power lines out planningpower, which is essentially
write down all the things youneed to do that you thought of
doing.
You've got ideas for, writethem all down, type them out and

(10:17):
then pick 30.
You could tackle 30 in a yearand then pick five no more than
five and work on those.
Now Gino Wickman wrote Traction,which is a little more
elaborate game plan that willget you the same place.
So there's more than one way todo this.
But overall you need someproject management process in

(10:38):
your company, in your life, orstuff won't get done.
That's why Al does agendas isbecause stuff happens that way.
He's a planner and as a result,he's created a great life for
himself and his clients and hisfriends.
So that, I think, is the piecehere is that it's probably not a
lack of information.
You probably have 5 millionthings written somewhere and

(11:01):
this process of just and it'sexhausting right Postage yeah,
all that and and so getting youand your team in fact.
You have a good story about howyou started that at your own
company.
You suspected Al as you weregetting your arms around things.
Again, we speak from our ownexperience strength and hope

(11:24):
right, and as Al's figuring outwhat to do at his company, you
tell a good story about askingeverybody on the team to bring
whatever projects they wereworking on.

Al Levy (11:33):
Yeah, and winter was our big season before we really
expanded to other things, so itwas a cold winter day.
Come back in, I'm runningthrough a company now of 70
people and I'm asking somepeople to help me with a project
that needed to get done, andthey're all too busy.
And finally, new York absoluterage.
I said, well, whatever you'reworking on, you just bring it

(11:55):
into the conference room.
We're all going to put it inthere.
So I put them all in theconference room and they start
piling up papers all over theplace and we start sifting
through this mess of papers.
Yes, people, it's 30 years agoand so we're going through it.
Here's what we find out, corey,in this meeting, two people are
working on the same project andneither one knew the other

(12:16):
person was working on it.
Other people thought they wereworking on a thing that I gave
great priority to.
The problem is, I don't evenremember talking about it, let
alone assigning it to anyone,and so, as we whittled this all
down, from what she's talkingabout, this master project list,
the top 30 down to the top five, we finally, for the first time

(12:37):
, got on the same page,literally.
Now, of course, today there's alot of great project management
and software.
We used to use Trello Monday.
You's a lot of great projectmanagement software.
We used to use Trello Monday.
You can use whatever you want.
I will tell you that Ellen andI have coached clients together.
One caution is yes, get thetrain moving, do that all out.
But if you think Trello Mondayany project management is going

(13:02):
to make things actually happen,you're sadly mistaken.
Thank you for shaking your headout.
Yeah, because what we wouldinsist on is get your calendar
out and type it in right now,because we're going to ask about
it next week and we want aprogress report on it, and that
is the big thing.
So don't leave it just in there.
It's got to be on people'scalendars and there's got to be
accountability.

I think the implementation part is.
You know, it's one of thethings that I've found in my
time working with people in thetrades.
That is the biggest chokehold.
As you said, there's a millionways to skin a cat and they have
all million of them and I thinkthey just can't choose which
one to focus on, and so theyjust don't.
Maybe it was an analysis byparalysis or I think.

(13:50):
Maybe I said that backwards,but the point is, there's so
many things to focus on, youjust don't do anything.

Al Levy (13:57):
It's easy.
It's easy to get to a pointwhere you just stand still.
I know I have been there in mylife and I just go.
What?
And this is going to sound moremorbid than anything else, but
I coach my own kids on this,when they would get overloaded.
I go, there's still a moment totake out a pen and a paper,
even though you can do stuff ona computer.

(14:18):
Just list out everything youneed to do today and I want you
to prioritize just today.
And the way I want you toprioritize is heaven forbid, the
bus hits you at 10 am.
What have you accomplished by10 am?
And then instantly you learnhow to prioritize and this
begins, this good habit beginsto expand once you get these

(14:41):
first things going and you startgetting the top five to move
along, top 30 to move along.
Master project that Ellen and Iknow is the great thing is
actually changes company culture, because we do reach out to the
people at the company, becausethey're on the front lines in
all these different positions tobring to us a project or a

(15:01):
habit we need to get in place,but we put it at the top of the
master project list.
They don't just throweverything aside and that's part
of the problems I go, I hearyour podcast and I go.
That's a great idea.
You know what everybody.
Stop what you're doing.
I know what I said.
Those were priorities, buttoday I heard Corey say this, so
this is what we're doing.

(15:23):
The next week.
It's something different, it'sjust classic.

Ellen Rohr (15:27):
This is what I love about you, Al, it's just true
north, classic advice andsystems for making your life and
your business better.
So a couple of things came tomind as we were visiting.
So one is meetings have a badreputation.
Yeah, Because most meetingssuck.
The wrong people are there,they go on too long, they get

(15:51):
derailed all of that, so nobodywants another meeting.
It's almost become a joke,especially with younger people.
And I get it.
Paul Kelly I love him so much,who has grown the Parkinson's in
Arizona.
He told me you can solve anyproblem if you meet about it
often enough with the rightpeople.
And what he means is and thisworks with Al's program and with

(16:12):
EOS if someone shows up to themeeting day after day and hasn't
done anything, they exposethemselves.
Either they need help andthey're willing and don't know
what to do, in which case youguys can brainstorm and figure
things out, or they're unwillingor not capable of doing what's
required, and that's someone whojust can't stay because you

(16:33):
can't have someone who's justgoing to lose on your watch.
So meetings will expose whetheror not there is someone who can
be helped and developed at yourcompany, or if you've got
someone who's just going to be arock in the road.
So meetings are important.
Another thing that you said,Corey, that I want to jump on is
sometimes people don't knowwhat to do, and there's an

(16:57):
expression how do you eat anelephant?
What's the answer?

One bite at a time.

Ellen Rohr (17:02):
The follow-up question may be well, which bite
first, like?
I don't want to make mistakes,I don't want to, but whatever.
And the reality is it doesn'treally matter which bite, just
get going.
So when you put your top fivetogether, a good advice from Al
was put in, an easy one.
And cleaning is never bad,never bad, like if it's clean.

(17:29):
One truck is going to be a topproject and organize that one
truck the way you want thattruck to look.
Or clean the warehouse, cleanyour desk I'll clean my desk.
Boom, throw it all on the floor, throw it out to the parking
lot, have a bonfire and thenstart fresh.
Cleaning is always good, neverbad, and when you clean, you
usually discover some weirdthings that are going to go on
your you know overall projectlist because you're looking,

(17:55):
you're in it.

Al Levy (17:57):
That is a good way to identify.
Why is this?
What's this legacy?
Who is this legacy from?
Why are we continuing forward?
It causes you to ask goodquestions.

Yes, yeah, absolutely so so it seems the
two of you get along quite well.
So I have a question.
So my guess is, as long asyou've worked together and known
each other, that it hasn'tmaybe always been this way.

Al Levy (18:24):
So I'd like to hear, maybe about a time when you just
ready to kill each other Iwould say first of all, ellen
and I, unconsciously, with mywork wife and me being her work
husband, we basically said thatwe'll always date and never get
married.
Wouldn't go married.
Yeah, we're already married,but forget about that we'll

(18:45):
always date and never getmarried.
Wouldn't go well.
Yeah, we're already married,but forget about that we are
married.
Yeah, we're not so, but Ellenshared the story about us
shooting videos, and this isback when videos were low, the
only thing we fight over is thestupidest stuff.

Ellen Rohr (19:00):
Is the stupidest stuff Like never about?
Like there's a river that runsthrough me and Al.
That is the same values, trustlevels, extremely high.
Al and I always tell each otherthe truth Like we've never had
a crack in that not even a crack.
But for some reason, when weshoot video maybe even today, al
, I'm like okay, well, let'sjust riff.

(19:22):
Okay, let's just, we're goingto, we're putting out a program
or we're going to go to aseminar and we're going to be on
stage, so we want to do alittle promo video.
Well, let's just like talkabout it.
And Al's like we need to writeout the three bullets and I
don't know why it would justpush my buttons Like no, I don't

(19:42):
want why I fought, but for somereason we turn into complete
kindergartners fighting over adodge, we would spend 20 minutes
arguing the format to shoot afive minute video.

Al Levy (19:55):
And now, of course, it's very funny because I have
reached a point in life where Idon't care enough anymore.
I got a camera, let's go, yeah.

Ellen Rohr (20:06):
But the thing is too .
I think you've really settledinto the 10,000 hours with your
stuff.
When we were younger, we werealso trying to figure some
things out, like what was goingto work, what was going to play,
how do we get the message andthe point across?
And I think over the years I'velearned we're going to throw
some seeds on stony ground.

(20:26):
There's going to be someinformation that lands with
somebody and they just take itand they make their life better
and on those occasions it givesme and I know you, al so much
satisfaction that we just go outthere another day.

Al Levy (20:42):
Yeah, no, we've been around long enough and had
enough success with our clients,which is the only measurement
in my opinion and these guyswent off and were able to sell
their companies or bring theirfamily in and I'm particularly
sensitive to, obviously, family,because now it's on to the
fourth generation.
That's very big for me and soit's rewarding, but it's
rewarding because of what it isfor them.

(21:03):
That is rewarding to me, butanyway, so Ellen has us do,
instead of personality profiling, which is an awful name what's
the motivational mapping?
So we do this program FlagPages and we said, well, we
can't ask our clients to show ustheirs if we're not willing to
show ours.
So Ellen and I take itindividually and when we put it

(21:27):
together it's a giant X.
We are such an X in thebackground of our personality,
what motivates us.
But at the core, there's such abig center.
If you follow what I mean, sure, but what it taught, taught me
was is I have to watch my wordsbecause, like Ellen was talking
about triggering and because ofthat, there are better words for

(21:50):
me to choose.
And sometimes we, when we didthis thing and we started to
laugh because we knew how topush each other button, but now
we had the words to push eachother's button.
So Ellen is all about games,making it a game, making it fun.
So I would go to Ellen, I go toworking with this client and I
could be working together and Ijust it's like scratching your

(22:13):
eyes out, it's just awful, it'spunishment.

Ellen Rohr (22:15):
If we could only make it into a game and Ellen
goes, I could do that and I knewhe was influencing me One might
say manipulating, but I wouldsay influencing me to do what he
wanted me to do.
And then I know that with Al,one of the things Al really
likes, because he tells us thatwhen you do these personality

(22:36):
mapping things and you know thisfrom WhoHire Working Genius
DISC there's a lot of them andthey're all interesting and very
valid for this reason alone,someone tells you about
themselves.
So now that's a respectfulthing to do.
Ask someone to tell you whatyou like and don't like and how
I can better communicate withyou.
Al likes to be acknowledged,like if he does something and

(22:59):
helps somebody's life getsbetter.
Send Al a thank you note, or Iwould say Al thank you for, and
give him a really specific pieceof feedback on how what he did
improve my life or someoneelse's.
And I just do that.
It's just like a way to love onyou because I know that's
important to you.
So that is.
I think over the years we'vedefinitely developed that Some

(23:20):
of it is to get each other to dosomething that we don't want to
do.

Al Levy (23:23):
And the other part of it.
That is true we genuinely loveeach other.
Ellen always tells the story isthat she would delegate somebody
to brush her teeth if she could.
Oh yeah, but what I know aboutEllen is if she looks around and
there's nobody there, she willpick up the toothbrush and do
the work.
Yeah, so that was part ofcoming to understand one another

(23:43):
.
And when you're at work andyou're working with your spouse
or other and, by the way, if youare not married to the person
you're at work if you don'tthink that your company sees you
as brother, sister, mother,father, you are way off.
And I learned that lesson at 25.
I'm sitting in my office at 25years old I'm the last brother
in of the three brothers andsomebody walks in an employee at

(24:07):
five o'clock so it's his owntime, and he's 50 years old and
proceeds to start telling meabout his life and what's going
on in his life and all of thisother stuff.
And I finish up with him andthen I find my dad and I go dad,
this guy walked in twice my agestarts telling me all this
stuff about his life and what'sgoing on and the rest of it.

(24:27):
So what's up with that?
He goes oh, because you sit inthis little corner office.
They see you as a big brotheror a dad and that's why they
come to companies like oursrather than going to a nameless,
faceless utility company.
They want to have, in mostcases, the kind of family they
never had at home.

(24:48):
And the truth of us is most ofus coming through the trades in
particular have haddysfunctional families and that
if and it was really my brothersand I, this was an eye opening
moment because we talked moreabout this.
It wasn't like we went to acourse and learned how to do
this.
We just said that we just can'tbe like.
They're not robots, they'repeople, and my father would

(25:09):
always emphasize we went towakes when we were young as kids
and hospital beds.
We treated people as you'd wantto be treated, but he saw them
as family.
Ellen always has a funny story.
I tell about my dad what hebecame at the end of life.
Ellen, do you want?

me to tell it.

Ellen Rohr (25:28):
Oh, I love Irving.
Irving was one of those guyswho showed up for work with a
suit and tie when no one elsewas wearing a suit and tie.
He just liked to present and hewas a great communicator, an
amazing relationship builder.
I loved your dad so much.
His job at OSI was to stand atthe lease line and thank

(25:51):
everyone for showing up.
So they would walk into theyard or the building and Irving
would say thanks for coming towork today, and I thought that
was so interesting.
And he said well, first off,they vote with their feet every
day.
Every day, they're making adecision as to whether or not
they're going to come work foryou and they don't have to.
And the second thing is, thisis gold, If you're listening for

(26:12):
the one thing that could changeyour life, this is it.
If you looked a person in theeye on Tuesday and said thanks
for coming to work, and theylooked you in the eye right back
and said you're welcome, You'regood.
If on Wednesday did I sayTuesday next day, Wednesday did
I say Tuesday Next day, thatperson doesn't meet your eye,

(26:33):
You've got a beef.
Some happened between yesterdayand today and you could fix
that beef If you, maybe, if youacted on it right now, maybe a
third party problem, maybesomeone saying something,
another coworker or a a familymember.
So suppose you decided to gorun errands together or walk

(26:55):
around the building and pick uptrash together, to do something,
not sit behind the desk andmake it all adversarial, but to
just spend time with that personand see if you could uncover
that bee and even be as ascandid as yesterday you looked
me in the eye and today you didnot.
Do we have something to cleanup here today?
Wouldn't you like to be talkedto like that?

Yeah, it definitely opens up the dialogue
where it doesn't go on for days, weeks, months, and then this
employee is now not engaged atall and when you could have
solved it with a simpleconversation.
And I wonder how many peopleGod, I'm so glad you mentioned
that, because that is reallyimportant and I just don't know

(27:39):
how many people do that orrealize how important that is.
That's culture, right and Al,what you were talking about with
the guy coming in and talkingto you, the reason he wanted to
work there is, you're right,because he had somebody he could
talk to.
And I see a lot of companiesthat just don't.
They don't have that.
There's a like, there's abarrier between the owner, or

(28:02):
whoever the boss is, and theemployees, and it just doesn't
work.

Al Levy (28:07):
It just doesn't work, yeah, but they have a mission
and vision statement that's amile long on the wall.
Isn't that good enough, right,yeah, so I know I'm tapping into
my New York sarcasm, but Ireally mean that.
Not what you say on the wall,it's what you do in real life,
and I actually learned a lot oflessons along the way, and one

(28:27):
of them came late to me.
That expanded on what Ellen'stalking about is I made it a
point to pretty much see everyone of my employees wherever
they were in stand-up thiswasn't a sit-down.
We're passing in the hallwayand I would ask them three
questions what's going right?
What's going wrong?
What do I need to know rightnow?
And as much as I was listeningto what they were saying, I was

(28:50):
much more interested in theireye contact.
What was their facialexpression?
And I had a decision to make isthis person leaving?
This is my chance to save them,because I don't want that five
o'clock knock, because they'realready out the door, and so it
really is what I taught peopleto do.
It's a skill.
You have to practice it reallywell so it becomes smooth.
We're not trying to manipulatepeople, but we do want to be

(29:12):
able to step in and really itcame from my brother, richie,
who was not a touchy-feely guy.
He's a great guy.
He'll do it and he literallygave you the shirt off his back.
He and Richie and Ellen'shusband, hot Rod, are like two
peas in a pod.
They are.
He said to me one day in thiscourse we had stupid
conversations at 2 am.
That's the last two texts.

(29:33):
He looks at me and he goes well, people can have a bad day here
Once in a while.
They can have a bad week.
They cannot have a bad month.
It's up to us to find out whatneeds to be done, because if
they can't be happy here andthey can't be good, we've got to

(29:53):
get them to where they need togo in life, which I thought
really just blew me away.

Ellen Rohr (29:57):
Yeah, because sometimes a guy like Hot Rod or
a guy like Richie may seem likea hard egg to crack, but they
are soft candy centers, thoseguys, and that's what Richie was
tapping into.
The word paradox comes to mind.
I love the word paradox, whichmeans that two things that seem
to be mutually exclusive or atodds with each other are both

(30:21):
true, and that is life.
We live in this dual universe,and discipline and
responsibility and holding tohigh standards.
It is not at odds with love andcompassion and empathy.

(30:42):
These things can all exist, andsometimes I think that gets a
little tricky.
We're navigating our way.
It is important to have itwritten on the wall and to talk
about it and to demonstrate it.
That helps you remember it.
It's on the wall.

Al Levy (30:57):
And if it's short enough, and it's short and you
Short and you Right.
I used to walk around with ahundred dollar bill and I would
tell an owner when I first showup and now remember they were
paying me six figures over acouple of years and I would see
this thing just go rolling rightdown the whole wall and I go,
that's not yours, sorry.

(31:21):
He said I have $100 in mypocket that says I can go pick
any employee I want and theycan't give me that by heart by
not looking at it.
But what would you do?
I go.
I would have 25 words or less.
I said my father actually wenever had a mission statement in
the time, vision statement,none of that stuff.
But my father's lecture to usand then to obviously everyone
else was I don't care what youdo all day, but the way you

(31:42):
treat my customers.
At the end of the day youbetter be able to look in that
mirror and not feel like youhave to turn away.
And to this day I stillresonate.
I actually felt electricity asI was talking about it because
it was channeling her.
But that was really.
How can you be confused?
You know what you're supposedto do and you have to act

(32:03):
accordingly.
So that's a pretty good missionvision for me.
That's so good yeah.

Yeah, people are not confused.
It's a choice.
If you want to serve thecustomer at the highest level,
that's a choice, and if youdon't, that's a choice.
And so both of them haveconsequences, good and bad.

Ellen Rohr (32:25):
And then there's housekeeping, Like as we put
manuals and systems together.
Those systems are designed tohandle the housekeeping so that
humans can do the human stuff.
This is why I embrace AI.
I love baked in systems.
I like putting everything inservice, tight and formed.

I do.

Ellen Rohr (32:48):
That's what Bob Ferrari used to call it A
no-thing zone.
Howard Partridge, they washtheir trucks every day, even in
the rain.
No, thank Like, don't ask,don't talk about it.
So that's what systems andprocedures are for, and when you
do that, then you have themental capacity to do the things
that humans can do, like tolove on a customer, to notice

(33:12):
that somebody maybe you've got abeef with a customer you have
to be present enough to be ableto pick up on that stuff, and if
you're trying to find a screwthat should have been in that
bin but it wasn't, and you'rejust wasting all this time, you
won't have that space to be ahuman, and that's what's great
about systems and AI and all ofthe cool tools that we can use

(33:35):
to handle the housekeeping.

Al Levy (33:38):
My company was always on the cutting edge of
technology back then.
And technology back then whenmy father and my uncle were in
the company, was when guys weregoing looking for phone booths.
They put in two-way radios andby the time we showed up we put
Nextels in and we put cell phone.
But we were always moving ahead.
We computerized way beforeeveryone else.
There are so many things thatyou do want to automate, but you

(34:01):
do still have to trust andverify that these things are
actually being done.
And there's great software nowabout hearing what's going on in
a customer's house and how muchtime they spend, and all those
things.
I think that's excellent.
Do I think it replaces the ridealong?
No, I don't, Because nonverbalcommunication is 70% of our

(34:22):
communication.
My face, my expression,whatever the pauses, all of
these things that you cannottell just by doing it.
So when they come together now,Ellen is the queen of
ride-alongs.

Ellen Rohr (34:34):
I love ride-alongs.
Loves me a ride-along.

Al Levy (34:36):
She loves herself a ride-along, so why don't you
share what you do when you goout?

Ellen Rohr (34:40):
Well, the first like why I started riding along was
to escape the office where Ifelt I would be found out as not
knowing anything about what Iwas supposed to be doing.
And this started when I was thefirst employee at Benjamin
Franklin, the functional plumber, so the employee number one.
And we're going to start thisfranchise.
We don't have a model center,we don't have a manual, we don't

(35:02):
have anything yet.
So I just started riding along.
Okay, I'm going to be with him,I'm going to be with Jose today
, and Jose and I'd go on someadventure.
But it gave me the opportunityto ask questions like Gal, like
what would you do if you were me?
What are we missing?
What do we ask you to do?
That's a waste of time, thosekinds of things.

(35:22):
And that's where I started torealize this inevitable distance
between the ivory towermanagers in the office and
what's actually happening outthere in the field, and that's I
think that every smart thing Ilearned was riding along and
getting in.
And we have processes, there'schecklists.
I don't check off a millionthings when I go on a ride along

(35:44):
.
This is a Matt Smith-ism.
Number one I try and make afriend, just make a friend.
You go on a ride along forsomeone for three hours and you
elevate your relationshipforever.
You have fun, dog gets out,there's an adventure, whatever
there's going to be, you'regoing to meet their family.
With the pictures on thedashboard, you're going to get a
chance to understand.

(36:06):
I met Bam in Pine State and he'dbeen a big brother, big sister
for like 12 years.
A big brother he's not a bigsister, he was a big brother.
But of that big brother, bigsister program I had no idea
about that.
That just made me love him somuch, finding out that little
thing about him.
So then you become friends,which is great, and then you

(36:26):
have a little more affinity, alittle more trust, and you can
say something like if I noticesomething that you do during
this call and I think I might beable to help make life easier
for you, are you open to thatfeedback, ask permission, like,
can I give you one thing that,if I notice, might make your
life a little easier, might beworth trying?

(36:46):
And they're going to say, yeah,I guess so.
I thought you were here to fireme, so this is better than that
.

Al Levy (36:53):
Most people, when we worked together, thought that I
was the axe murderer.
It was her.

Ellen Rohr (37:00):
Benjamin Franklin.
They did call me the meat eaterbecause when I left there was
usually one less person workingthere.
Now, it's not that I'm not acompassionate person, but when
you start using systems likethis, you can find if people are
not a good fit and I've beenfired and let go and laid off
and all of that.
It is not the worst thing.
It is not.
It's the beginning of a newchapter.

(37:20):
Right, that's how it goes.
But in any event, thoseconversations can help you
determine if the service tech iswilling and capable of change.
And if you go on a ride alongor two two, and then you put in
sales pro something that's goingto record the call in the house
, then you've got some buy-in asto why you would even do that.

(37:41):
Otherwise it can feel prettybig brother.

Al Levy (37:43):
Yeah, I agree.

Look, I cannot agree with you more.
I remember specifically ridingalong it was probably four years
ago with a guy in vegas and, uh, he, every time I've ever
ridden along with a technician,I've always come out knowing
something about that technicianthat likely nobody else knows.
And this guy was strugglingwith kratom.

(38:08):
I don't know if you know whatkratom it's some kind of
over-the-counter stuff that'snot good for you and can get you
hooked.
And I don't really know muchabout it personally, but I knew
enough to understand what it washe was taking.
And so he just really opened upbecause of the story that I
told him Anybody that listens tothis that I'm in recovery and I

(38:29):
was telling him a story aboutwhen I was in Vegas and I was
just completely wide open and itgave him the ability to not to
open up about this thing he wasstruggling with and I worked
with that.
I never told the owner because Ididn't.
He wasn't putting the companyat risk, he wasn't.
He may have been, his mind mayhave been altered, but it wasn't

(38:51):
like he was doing hard drugsand he wasn't at risk for
wrecking the van and so.
But I worked with that guy, Idon't know 30 or 45 days.
I checked in on him every day.
He didn't make it, but eitherway, it gave me an opportunity
to work with him, completely nothaving anything to do with the

(39:13):
job, in hopes that maybe hewould get sober.
He didn't get sober, but if I'dnever ridden along with that
guy, I would have never foundthat out and would never had
that opportunity.

Al Levy (39:27):
Well for me and ride along.
People always ask what do youand Ellen get out of your
interactions with one another?
And I will tell you to this day, because it's 30 years.
Every time I talk to Ellen, Iwalk away smarter.

Ellen Rohr (39:42):
Oh, we love each other.

Al Levy (39:43):
But it's true Beyond the love.
Yeah, we talk about questionspeople ask us.
I feel I got better by thequestions that I work with
really smart people when theyask me really good questions.
It made my mind open up toprovide the answers or find the
answers or to get to who neededto know who would be in the know

(40:04):
for these kinds of things.
So one of the things is I knowtoo much.
I know too much, and so when Iwould go do a ride along, I
would want to like imagine Ireally grabbed you with the tech
and just says pull aside, justwatch, which is the worst thing
you can possibly do.
That's right.
The second worst thing is tojump in the middle of a job and

(40:26):
coach them, which I also learnednot to do unless it was unsafe.
Right, right, come out to thetruck and we talk about it.
And what I basically learnedfrom Ellen was really two
questions that it became reallythe bedrock of my ride alongs,
which was because they know andI would turn to Ellen who's
driving the truck and go, ellen,what do you think you did

(40:46):
really great on that call andthey instantly knew.
And then the next question Iwould ask the last one I'd go is
what would you do better?
On the next call.
And again they instantly knew,and so that was helpful.
There was times where I wasworking up in upstate New York,
I'm in the basement, we're doinga job together and ride along

(41:08):
and he goes.
I know I really need to sellstuff, but I just don't know
what it is that I could sell.
And I go well, just so you know, my sales system is called
ethical selling, so I'm notselling anybody anything that's
not in their best interest.
But I know a ton and I'm notgoing to leave this boiler room
that is eight by five.

(41:28):
And I'm going to tell you rightnow that air separator is not
removing air from this thing,it's in the wrong place, the
wrong design, the rest of it andthat this is not where the pump
needs to be.
And I just went around because Iknew.
And then I knew what I neededto ask the customer.
I go do you ever hear watertrickling in the middle of the
night from the baseboard?
She goes yes, I do.
Can you fix that?

(41:49):
I go yeah, it's an air separate.
You follow what I'm saying.
It came from my knowledge andEllen reinforced that, because
this is the problem of us asmanagers and owners we're too
busy to do ride-alongs.
So we have this great top techand we think he's producing
these great numbers becausethey're really great at sales.
Ellen rode with one of thetechs at one of the companies

(42:13):
and what she found out is theyweren't spectacular at sales.
They were super efficient as atech and they could do more and
do it quickly and leave thecustomer feeling really solid
about what they had done.
That was their way or pathforward.

Ellen Rohr (42:30):
So does that make sense.
It wasn't the words, it was theconfidence that he knew, like
Al was saying, knew how he couldmake that system better.
So for those of you who aretradespeople and perhaps master
technicians, like Al was when hewas growing up, it is hard not
to jump in.
But then those moments wherethey blow up in the field,

(42:51):
that's what you use as yourcurriculum for your class when
you're in your training centerand you give them a safe space
to play that Now it's sorelevant, right?
That's what started thetraining center.
We don't want to do that in thecustomer's home, but what if we
did it in the safe space wherethe team having fun with each
other, breaking each other'sshoes a little bit, supporting
each other and then trying outeach other's troubleshooting

(43:13):
techniques or how to hold thewrench or what even to say?
Here's what I learned fromride-alongs.
Not knowing any of that, thisis what I've learned If it looks
bad, smells bad or sounds bad,it's probably bad.
And that is a simple way forsomeone who's not a technician
to ride along and then get backin the truck and say is that

(43:34):
green stuff coming down the sideof the wall?
Is that supposed to be there.
That's not good, right?
That looks bad, All thatcorrosion at the bottom, like
it's going to look bad, smellbad or sound bad, and that is a
good enough clue for you to havea conversation at least open up
to the tech.
Is there a way to do thatdifferently?
Should that be also addressed?

(43:54):
Because, again, I think to Al'spoint they want to do what's
right for the customer.
A lot of guys don't want tooversell, but they're so often
ill-serving their customers byneglecting to notice those
things.

Al Levy (44:08):
And, yeah, I would say I trained up my guys.
We were always on the cuttingedge of what was new.
So thermostatic radiator valvesfor those people who have
hydronic heat, we had it.
We practiced in our own houseand really the motto that we had
was a huge sales and marketingadvantage, not just staffing,
which is we're not coming toyour house, corey, to learn our

(44:28):
job.
We're already trained andcertified in our own house.
But all of that came from whatwe used to have as our dirty
little secret, which we calledOTJT, which means on-the-job
training, which means I'm comingto your house to learn my job
and charge you for it, which isthe worst way you can train.
So there's really a bigadvantage to getting into the

(44:51):
training center and doing thisstuff and marrying the sales,
the operations, technical skillsin a very safe way.
So by the time you get out inthe field it feels a lot like
rinse and repeat and it'sfreeing.
And I will tell you one thingis a side note, because Ellen
mentioned a great thing aboutbeing freed up when we put the
manuals in, I had existing guys,a union shop.

(45:11):
It wasn't like I can say allright, you guys can all leave,
I'll get all these new people in, basically.
I guess it was probably a coupleof months in and one of the
guys who I had known grew up.
He was a Vietnam vet and hecame into my office.
He goes out.
You know what the othercompanies call us.
I go, I don't know.
He goes.
Well.
I was at a gas station and theguy called me.
He said you work for thatmilitary company and the guy's

(45:35):
name is Joe and he looks at himup and down like this he goes.
Well, I wouldn't want to be aslob like you working for a
company like that.
I'm pretty proud of what I am.
He said we are all proud ofthis.
We are so ready for what we'reready to do.

People, just like children, need boundaries and
they need rules.
When they're young, it's thesame difference when you have
employees.
The people want to understandthat you know what you're doing,
and if there's no rules andthere's no boundaries, and if
there's no processes in place,it looks like you don't know

(46:09):
what you're doing looks like youdon't know what you're doing.

Al Levy (46:16):
Yeah, that's a great point, corey, because the
majority of us have lied on ourresume about what we can really
do.
So I'm talking about, if Iinterviewed Ellen have you ever
done a brand new bathroom?
What's the only answer I'llever get in an interview Done,
hundreds of them, sure, sure,whatever.
I ask her, are you really goodat changing out a 200-hour panel
?
The answer is, of course, yes.
So we finally learned to dosome testing and stuff.

(46:37):
But that's not the point ofthis.
What I realized was, once we putthese manuals out, that these
seasoned veterans were beginningto fill their own holes, that
they were deathly afraid of.
That we would find out and what?
We changed the dynamic at ourcompany, because it used to be
hysterically funny to theseasoned experience guys about

(46:58):
Ellen, you don't know that.
How many years you've beendoing it?
You're kidding, you don't knowthat.
And of course, ellen's nevergoing to let us know what else
she doesn't know.
So we retrained ourselves asowners and managers to go
whatever.
You don't know, corey, is nowmy problem.
I'm going to take you out tothe training center.
We're going to do it together.
You're going to follow theprocess we're going to get you
all the way through to what wecall released, so that you can

(47:20):
go off in the world and do thiswork and feel confident about
what you do so good.

Ellen Rohr (47:26):
Now we're just we're jumping around here.
These are our favorite topics.
I feel like Al and I have sometopics that we come back to a
lot because they've had such apowerful impact on our lives
with our clients and in our ownbusinesses.
Corey, what question should youbring to the party?

Al Levy (47:43):
Yeah, let's let Corey talk.

Ellen Rohr (47:45):
Let's let Corey ask us a question so how do you
solve?

how have you seen maybe it's through technology,
maybe it's not how do you, howdo you suggest?
Or how have you seen solvingthat problem with the technician
that gets in the house andmaybe he doesn't know what the
green stuff is running down thewall or he doesn't have the
answer, and from my experience,they have to call the service
manager if they can get them onthe phone.

(48:10):
If they can't get them on thephone, they're sitting there for
an hour waiting on him.
They can get them on the phone.
If they can't get them on thephone, they're sitting there for
an hour waiting on him, whichis just one of the biggest pain
points that I've found in theindustry, and it's in the
industry as a whole.
What have you seen that in yourexperience?

Al Levy (48:25):
to mitigate, that or to solve that problem.

(48:45):
I'll tell you how I solved itat our company, which was the
boxwork chart, which shows allthe boxes in the relationship
really brought to life what mybrothers and rising up through a
career from apprentice, juniortech, senior tech, install field
supervisor and then to servicemanager or on the install wing
install apprentice, juniorinstaller and up the same path

(49:07):
on that wing that we really wereoffering a career, not just a
job, and so that was really abig thing.
Now it's easy to say that, butyou have to have systems to do
that, and the manuals are thebedrock of that.
The org chart is the bedrock ofthat.
And then you need to create thetraining center, the hands-on

(49:28):
training center that acts like,looks like, smells, like what
they're going to encounter inthe field.
And then the bridge between themanuals and the training center
is your ability to become abetter trainer Great
communication skills, greattechnical skills and a way to
present it that people are notasleep.
Because for years and years whenRichie and I would talk about

(49:51):
trainers, for years and yearswhen Richie and I would talk
about trainers, we had been allover the country getting
training.
Yeah, and when we went out tothis training, we realized
pretty fast there's two types oftrainers.
There's people who areabsolutely 100% know their stuff
.
The problem is they're soboring you will be asleep and so

(50:15):
unless you can learn in yoursleep, that's a problem.
And then there were othertrainers who were funny and
charismatic and really enjoyableUntil somebody asked them a
question of depth and you prettysoon knew they didn't know it.
So our goal became can weprovide 75% to 80% of the
training in-house?
And then we would selectivelybring in great trainers because

(50:35):
there are great trainers outthere, but we directed what
training we wanted.
So it wasn't just a sales classor marketing class.
But once our guys touched it,once they knew it and in some
cases it actually went to theirhome first to try it out.
We had no problems with theseguys selling stuff.
We had problems to get them tostop selling stuff.

Well, you said something really important.
When they touch it, techniciansare kinesthetic people, right,
they need to touch it, feel it,hear it, see it, all of those
things, or you're not going topick it up.

Al Levy (51:12):
No, I can talk to you all day about, as a plumber,
holding two wrenches back fortightness and what is tight, and
then I could show you a videoof it.
But until you pick up twowrenches, it's never going to be
, because there's only two waysyou will ever tighten a union
You'll tighten it so much you'llcrack it, or you'll leave it so
loose it'll leak.
And that's part of the growthprocess that I have to get for

(51:35):
you to be able to release you asyou go along.

Ellen Rohr (51:39):
Yeah, it's so good, and to add to that, corey.
So that's like that's the work,that's the digging the hole,
pouring the foundation, layingup the construct of the building
, and it takes them to start now.
Just start now.
That's why I recommend you goto 7 Power Contractor and buy
whatever else is selling overthere.
At least start with the 7 PowerContractor book.

(52:01):
The other piece of it too,again, that's the hard systems,
then the soft systems are tokeep your ears open for the
language that your team membersare using.
For the language that your teammembers are using.
Is it safe to tell the truth?
I was at a job.
I was at a shop once and therewas this young kid in the
warehouse and I said hi to himand I said how long have you

(52:22):
worked here?
And he said it's my first dayand I'm like well,
congratulations.
And the next day I show up andhe's not there and I said what
happened to that young man inthe warehouse?
And they said what happened tothat young man in the warehouse?
And they said oh you mean spaz,like nicknames aren't funny.
No, like little things likethat, like the words you use.

(52:43):
Make it safe to tell the truth.
Make it safe to say I made amistake.
Or to come back to the shop andsay this is how I felt when I
had to sit in my truck for anhour waiting for the field
supervisor.
So I need training on that orwe got to figure out a better
way.
But, like, if you make it safefor people to tell you the truth
, they won't lie to you.

Al Levy (53:01):
Sometimes we cause people to lie to us, and there
are some habits that really hadto go away.
When I was coming up, if youhanded up the wrong fitting car,
it was coming back in your headas fast as you handed it up,
which is how you learned yourpipe sizes, which you cannot do
today, obviously.
And then in the electrical, theseasoned guys it was
particularly funny to give you awire that you would touch that.

(53:22):
They knew how to groundthemselves, so you'd be bouncing
all over the place, and so thiswhole rite of passage, if you
will, in the trays, it was juststupidity and, to my greater
sense of it, as I was doingone-to-one work, some of that, I
hope, has more than vanished,at least my experience I do want
to get back to.

(53:42):
I was always the one that wasdriving when Ellen and I were
working together and she'd besitting in the passenger seat
and as I'm driving trying to getto the airport or trying to get
to with a client or whatever,and Ellen would ask me these
questions.
And one day'm driving trying toget to the airport, trying to
get to with a client or whatever, and Ellen would ask me these
questions, and one day she sayswhen's the best time to plant an
oak tree, and I'm driving, so Idon't want to turn my head and

(54:03):
I go.
Ellen, I'm from New York City,we don't encounter a lot of oak
trees, so why don't you justtell me?
So she goes 10 years ago andtoday and I go.
So what does that mean?
She goes?
You would have wished you didit 10 years ago, and if you
don't do it today, 10 years willpass and you will have wished

(54:23):
you have, and I have used thatover and over again.
When people ask, when should Iget the org charts?
When should I get the manuals?
When should I get the trainingin?
When should I?
When should I?
When should I?
That's a really big statementin a really small dose.

Ellen Rohr (54:38):
And yet no more than five at a time.
So all of that goes on the list.
Some things are going to moldthere.
Tell your team that's a greatidea.
It's going to mold there.
It's on the list, I heard you.
It's written down, good idea.
But it's not going to moveuntil we get something off the
top five and then we pullsomething from the top 30.
But that's why I put an easyone in there.

(55:00):
Uniforms, cleaning the shopthese are things you could
upgrade and improve right away.
Looks better, feels better.
Get a little endorphin buzzfrom getting a good job done.

Al Levy (55:12):
The items used to be too big.
That was a lesson that Ellenand I learned as we did because
people were great at marketing.

Ellen Rohr (55:18):
And by the end of the project, are you ever going?

Al Levy (55:20):
to stop marketing.
How about if you go a directmail, postcard campaign?
We can get that done.
There's a beginning and end.
How about improving SEO?
How about you follow what I'msaying?
Yeah, yeah, that gets thingsmoving.
And the reason I used to put itup on a big whiteboard and,
believe it or not, a lot of thecompanies have not surrendered
their whiteboard.
It's out in the company's face.

Ellen Rohr (55:41):
I would default to a whiteboard in a heartbeat if
you're struggling with somegroovy app or sitting on EOS
implementation for two years Goback to a whiteboard.
I mean we've grown.

Al Levy (55:58):
Massive companies got huge payoffs and they kept it to
the very end.
Which is on.
That top five was in a publicplace because it was there to
hold the accountability for theowners and managers.
It was not how we did anything.
What are we doing?
Why are we doing it?
What is the status?
And if that board never changes, they already know what they
know.

Ellen Rohr (56:19):
Nothing's changing at this company.
Do you want to hear something Ilearned recently from Keith
Mercurio, yep?
He says he doesn't love theword accountable and I'm like,
well, that's a bug Did.
I tell you this no, I saw it.

Al Levy (56:28):
I follow his posts a lot.
I do have a funny story.
When you finish up, go ahead.

Ellen Rohr (56:33):
Okay, and I, like he said it just always means like
you're in trouble, it's like youwould never like take.
I held him accountable today.
What does it even mean?
And like it just has a go tothe principle, feel to it.
So other words like are yougoing to take ownership of that?
Are you going to be responsiblefor these activities?

(56:55):
Are you going to do what yousaid you do?
Those are good words, that kindof like you can hang on to, and
this is where I'm getting moreand more sensitive to the words
we use and the impact that theyhave.
So what's the follow-up storyto that?

Al Levy (57:07):
And the funny story is I've admired Keith back to his
next star day and the rest of it.
So I see him at an event andI'm excited to go up and talk to
him.
And I go Keith, I just got totell you it's amazing what you
have done through Nextar andonto your own career.
And he just stops and he looksat me and smiles.
He goes you don't know ourbackstory, do you?
I go we have a backstory.

(57:29):
He goes yeah, I was a youngapprentice at Tim Flynn's shop
up in Boston and you were there,no kidding oh, yeah, I met him
there too.

Ellen Rohr (57:40):
I didn't, we didn't put it together until he went to
work at Nexstar.
We met him when he was 21.

Al Levy (57:48):
I know it is funny and delightful.
I love Keith.
He is a different individual.

Isn't that funny?
It is funny and delightful.
Yes, I love Keith.

Ellen Rohr (57:58):
He is a different individual Yep yeah this is a
guy making a difference inpeople's lives.
I really love him.
And so, Corey, you're up.
Man, what are you dying to askout?
Dying, that's a heavy word.
What are you eager to ask usbefore we run out?

Al Levy (58:13):
Look at how Ellen is growing up in front of our very
eyes.

Ellen Rohr (58:17):
Yes.

I know that we're getting close on time and this
has been an incredible amount ofinformation.
So what?
I know what's next for you,because you're in the middle of
that and Al you've.
I don't know if I'm supposed tosay that.

Al Levy (58:31):
Well, yeah, I would say that I'm semi-retired, which
really ticks off my wife and mybrother who lives all the way
across the street here inArizona, because they don't
believe that I'm any whatretired.
But yeah, I still do supportfor my programs.
The two programs I have onlinesignature operating manual
system, and then that leads tothe second program and we're

(58:51):
building out more.
Ellen is actually building outsome more too, because we're
going to make more and more ofthe seven power stuff, of those
seven systems, more and moreavailable.
You and I have talked over theyears, but really at my own
company I was great at sales andmarketing and the only reason I
got good at the rest of thisstuff, corey, is because my team

(59:12):
blew up all my great efforts.
I had to stop and learn how toget this stuff done so I could
get back to what I really wantedto do, which was sales and
marketing, which brings upanother conversation.
Driving down the road again,ellen turns to me and says what
comes first, sales and marketing.
And I go sales and she goeswell, if you don't have the

(59:37):
phone ringing and marketing'snot happening, you're going out
of business.
I go, ellen, if you don't knowhow to sell to the one target
audience or one target person,or the 10 market people that you
have, where they live, how theytick and what's going to
motivate them, then you are justwasting your marketing dollars
and impact.

Ellen Rohr (59:55):
That's right, isn't?
That good that makes such adifference.
Like so, if you had one lead,do you have a snowball's chance
of solving a problem there?
And what is it?
Why did the customer say yes Ifyou asked them?
What made you say yes?
Why did you decide to go withus?
What do you like about workingwith us?
What would you like us not todo anymore?
Like that one customer wouldinform so much of your marketing

(01:00:18):
?

Corey Berrier (01:00:19):
That's right.

Al Levy (01:00:20):
Ellen actually made them call up one of their
favorite customers that theycouldn't figure it out.
Yeah, you say like Mrs Farnwickwe love that you only think of
us.
What is their favorite thingthat you like about it?

Ellen Rohr (01:00:33):
And let them just brag on you.
Yeah, or brag on them Like howmany as a customer, Corey, have
you ever had someone call youand just say you know what?
It was a pleasure to work withyou the other day.
You were nice to our teammembers, just shared cookies.
That was above and beyond, andyou didn't have to choose us.
So what made you pick up thephone and call us?
But love on them, Thank themfor their service.

(01:00:55):
You're a great customer.
I don't think anyone's evertold me that.

Al Levy (01:00:59):
Yeah, I think it's great.
I think it was so great toreally crystallize their sales
and marketing thing.
For me, what I'm always afterCorey on the sales and marketing
again because of the great DanHollahan is there are really
ultimately three types oftestimonials, and you want it
today more in video than justphotos of the old days.
It's really number one a greatproduct or service that you

(01:01:23):
provided, that they're braggingon, that saved the money, made
them warmer, made them cooler,whatever that it did.
The second one is I called atseven o'clock at night.
I thought I'd just get a dancermachine.
I didn't think anybody wouldshow up, let alone there's a
person who's warm and receptiveand there's a person at my door
fully trained and stocked andthe rest of it Love you.
And then the third one is thehome run, where they brag on the

(01:01:44):
product and service and you.
And when people ask me, can Iget enough of them?
And the answer is clearly no,you can never have enough of
those great testimonials.
Your sales and your marketing.
Both of them will be greatlyimproved.

But the chances of getting those three things by
what you said, ellen, bycalling that customer and
telling them what a great thatis.
Yeah, nobody's ever done that.
I don't.
Nobody's ever done that to me.

Al Levy (01:02:15):
I saw Ellen do it, so that was really the first time I
saw it, but I was yeah, italways works, it always works,
it does.
I was proactive because, again,I did both service tech and I
was also the big ticketsalesperson I call system
advisor and I realized I wasrunning into obstacles to close
the sale and things of thatnature, because I was leaning on

(01:02:36):
my words and then showingpictures.
Nothing was really closing itlike testimonials were, and so
then I got really good at thatasking for the testimonials, and
then I said I should probablyput it at the front end when I
walked through the door and I go, corey, if I should be selected
today, I'm truly honored.
I'm going to earn your businessto the point where I'm going to
come back two weeks later tothis job myself and check that

(01:03:00):
everything that I promised wasdelivered to you and if, in that
case, that is the case andyou're truly happy, I'm going to
hope that I can get a videotestimonial, just like the ones
I'm going to show you today.
Boom, bam, yeah, boom.
I closed, it Locked in.

Here's a little nuance to that.
This happened when I was acustomer and the service tech
said, like I came to clean mycarpet or something, and he said
we build our just the samething.
I said yes to the whatever thepackage is.
Who knows, I don't know howmuch I'm spending, much I'm

(01:03:37):
spending, so I say yes and hesays okay, Mrs Rohr, here's
what's happening.
We build our business throughGoogle five-star reviews, so my
intention is to give youfive-star service today.
And then he adds this and if atany point you don't think I
earned those five stars, you letme know and we're going to get
back on track.
Isn't that great?

Al Levy (01:03:53):
it is great I have a question, ellen is that when you
were coaching guys and you didyour ride-alongs and they walked
out to the truck and they goand I don't think that I don't
think the customer's happy and Idon't think they're and you
would say let's turn around andgo fix this now?

Yeah, yeah.
But that again, and that led tous at Zoom.
That's literally why we quitdoing a minimum service fee, the
minimum service fee.
If you don't do the job, it'sjust like they're not going to
like it and they don't like itbefore you get there.

(01:04:32):
Yeah, I'm not saying you don'tuse it because you get before
you get there.
Yeah, Just like I'm not sayingyou don't use it because there's
evidence that service Titan,that people who charge a minimum
service fee actually havehigher close rates Like okay, I
get it, you have choices to makehere.

Al Levy (01:04:45):
It has to be done right.
I hear both of you.
I hear what both of you have tosay.

You might try that.
But if you don't do the job andyou collect the $75 minimum fee
, like, but what happens is theboss has not given permission to
the tech to say no, it's okay,mrs Fernwick, erase these, let's
just start over.
And if they did and the techjust had the option and then

(01:05:09):
came back and said I blew this,they needed it.
They said, no, I didn't evencollect the minimum.
Let's role play this, like ifyou could create that kind of
culture.
Now we're off to the races.

But, Al, you know , I can hear the boss right now
and go well, every service techwill just give the $75 away.

Al Levy (01:05:30):
That's the beauty of having an Ellen Rohr on your
team, where it can be built intothe budget and it should be
built into the budget.

Yeah, just raise your prices on the original.

Al Levy (01:05:39):
Raise your prices and already figure it out and stop
arguing I as a boss probably wasthe worst person to handle
customer complaints because Iwas too invested, but I would be
the one to fall on the sword.
I would do the best I could andthings of that nature.
But I'm just going to talkabout minimum service fee for a
minute.
When we first the great EllenMoore came into my life in the

(01:06:00):
90s, before that we bought amotor for 30 bucks.
We paid you $30 and we sold itfor 100.
So we thought, well, we got $40of pure profit.
Did I say any point that I wasenlightened along the way?
So?

we do our first budget.
You figured it out.

Al Levy (01:06:15):
Yeah.
So we got our first budget,thanks to people like Ellen.
It's $150 an hour and we figureout a toilet's going to be like
$400.
And Richie says to me do itagain.
It comes out to $400.
And I said, richie, noteveryone's going to be our
customer.
That's the first thing here,and we have to do a lot more to
build value than we ever didbefore, where you just quote

(01:06:36):
prices.
So, anyway, our price book comesout and we realized quickly
that a minimum service fee makessense, because if you don't
like $150, as an example thatwe're going to give you back if
you approve the work today,there's nothing in my price book
that you're going to like.
Better.
But I said to them is that ifyou don't do the work or they

(01:06:57):
have a question or an issue,give them the money back.
We do not make budget byminimum service fees.
You can always waive it, and sohow I instruct companies to do
that is service managers runninga special this month.
Yes, we normally charge $150 tocome out and we give it back,

(01:07:18):
but this month he's entitled usto give you no minimum service
fee when we come.
So if you're slowing down,that's a good way to get over it
, as long as it's the truth.
Oh, it's got to be the truth.

It's got to be the truth, yeah.

Al Levy (01:07:32):
It's got to be the truth in everyone.
Thank you, that's a very bigplus.

Yeah, because there's also again.
There's that kind of like tellthem I'm not here, white lie as
soon as the owner isn't beingsquare with people.
Boy, is that a terriblesituation.
In AA it's called rigoroushonesty.
That's right.
It's cleaning up the language,not leaving it at a maybe like

(01:07:55):
that.
Rigorous honesty is a high barto maintain and it's so good for
you.

Al Levy (01:08:02):
I was wondering when we get around to addictions and
the rest of it You'reoutnumbered.
Today, mr, I'm outnumbered, butas I told Ellen, she knows I
was 50 pounds heavier than whattoday.

We all deal with something.

Al Levy (01:08:15):
I was a foodaholic and I was eating my stresses, corey
, because you and I have talkedprivately for a long time.
It's socially acceptable, maybea little bit more.
Or I was a workaholic gee, isthere anybody there listening
who's a workaholic?
I wonder, right, yeah and soyeah, there's healthy or bad,
but the question you have to askyourself sometimes is just why?

(01:08:36):
I had to really ask myself why,and that was the toughest
question.

Yeah, and what was the answer?
And I want to expand on thisafter you tell me.
Do you remember?

Al Levy (01:08:47):
Yeah.
So when I finally got enoughcounseling about the why for my
weight because the guy said it'snot what you eat he said we all
like a slice of pizza, butyou're not satisfied with a
slice of pizza because you'refilling yourself up, you're
getting yourself bigger for thechallenges.
You need stuff in my head thatI never was.
Really I wouldn't.

(01:09:07):
Frankly, I never would havefigured it myself.
So for those of you who needhelp, do yourself and everyone
around you a favor, because whatI found out is when I got help,
not only did I get healthy, butit was better for my family and
the people I work with you know, I agree with that I was

(01:09:27):
talking to.

I don't even know .
She told me her last nameyesterday j Jennifer HVAC Chick
Jennifer, you all I know.
You all know who I'm talkingabout I think I do.
She she does the HVAC ChickCoalition OK, on Facebook.
I'm now, trust me, youdefinitely know who she is.
For sure I know I do.

I'm just not going to use rigor and honesty until
we get to check and Google, yes,but now I'm intrigued by the
story.
I do?

Al Levy (01:09:51):
I'm just not.
We're going to use rigoroushonesty until we get to checking
Google.
Yes, but now I'm intrigued bythe story.

I know.
So we had a really longconversation and the truth is,
when people have an addiction weall have an addiction of some
sort, some kind of some kind,and really it's trying to fill
some sort of void that's notbeing fulfilled otherwise,
whether that's from a childhoodtrauma, whether that's from a

(01:10:18):
relationship, whether that'sfrom not feeling good enough the
list could go on and on.
But really that's what it isand that's what it is for me and
I think that's what it is foreverybody.
And addiction usually notusually addiction starts with
pain, the void, and it ends withpain, with not being able to

(01:10:39):
control whatever that thing isthat you're filling that void
with.

I know it's crazy, and perhaps the greatest gift
from addiction is thewillingness and capacity to live
in the now.
Yes, at the present moment,because that's again like with
food, like you can eat againlater.

Al Levy (01:11:02):
Yeah, and you can also make, as Corey said, about
choices.
I was in Weight Watchers forthe third time and I was of
course a funny one at this point.
At one time I just said until Icame this third time to Weight
Watchers for the third time andI was of course a funny one at
this point At one time I justsaid until I came this third
time to Weight Watchers, Ididn't realize there was
anything in an airport otherthan a Cinnabon.
People just fell off theirchair laughing.

The other thing I learned.

Al Levy (01:11:27):
I was lucky I had a great teacher and she says look
right and look left, look behindyou.
Everyone that's sitting here isa perfectionist and I thought
to myself I'm carrying like 40pounds more than I should.
People are bigger than me nextto me Perfection.
She goes yeah, you go on a dietand you make one bad decision

(01:11:53):
and then you just cascade yourway down because now you're not
perfect anymore.
That's right, I should belaughing.
I was so busted.

It's like you could eat a chip and not eat the whole
bag.
Now I think what's even?
I know we're on now anothertopic, but I think addiction is
really the journey of our timesright now and it affects our
business.

Al Levy (01:12:15):
How many?

team members.
Do we have to let go becausethey're high or their lives are
falling apart?
And it is?
It's it's worth bringing up,that's for sure.
But I think food is trickier,because with drinking or drugs
you can just stop with foodellen actually said that to me.

Al Levy (01:12:31):
I want I said to him we went out to eat, I go, I'm
I'm not going to order anyalcohol and I would try to pick
restaurants that didn't havebars.
And she finally caught on towhat I was doing she goes.
If you think that whatever thatis is going to stop if I had
that urge, you are deadly wrong.
She said it's really me that'sin control of this.

(01:12:52):
She goes.
If anybody has a problem, it'syou and I go.
What do you mean by that?
She goes where can we go to eatthat we don't have food?

Yeah.

Al Levy (01:13:00):
That's right.

Well, you have to manage food.
Like one of the ways to dealwith you can't really control it
, but to deal with being analcoholic is to not put yourself
in a place where there is booze, like that helps.
But you couldn't just say I'mnot going to eat, I'm not going
to eat, I'm not going out there.

Al Levy (01:13:16):
I'm never going out, ever.

Well, and the truth is, with alcoholics like
you can't say I'm just not goingto drink because it just
doesn't.
It's the same thing as if youpass by the Cinnabon store right
, you're going to stop at the's.

The same thing with alcoholics until they're and you
can't say I'm going to stopdrinking forever.
You're just saying I'm notgoing to do it right this second
, that's right.

Al Levy (01:13:42):
That is something that now, and that is, I was never
in the now.
I was always in the past andalways what is coming next?
That's right.
So rarely.
And it was funny because inyoga class it taught me to put
my knees over my ankles, my hipsover my knees, my shoulders
over my hips and my neck andhead over my shoulders and I
thought, well, that was just theposture.

(01:14:02):
And then she goes this isn'tabout posture alone.
This is about bringing you backto now.

Yeah, now, I just stood up straighter.

Al Levy (01:14:13):
Well, I'm leaning in because I want to hear what
you're saying.

So, Ellen, it seems like you've had some sort
of bout with addiction.
I don't know if I know anythingabout this story.

Well, I took a marriage counseling session with
Hot Rod once upon a time andthe rule was you couldn't drink.
And I'm like, oh okay.
And then it started to dawn onme like like we're two or three
days into it, this is thelongest I've ever gone without
drinking.
And then I'm reflecting on allthe damage alcoholism has done

(01:14:48):
to my family.
Everybody has alcoholicfamilies, don't they?
And I just thought you knowwhat?
This is the train I'm on.
I'm on that train and thosetracks are going to I'm going to
be an addict, and there is noblue light that starts flashing
that says, oh, you're reallyclose.
It just doesn't work that way.
So it was just this wake upmoment that I thought I'm not

(01:15:11):
going to drink today, but Inever really said I'm not going
to drink today, but I neverreally said I'm not going to
drink forever.
But that was 29 years ago, wow.
And it just came down to likenow, at this point, like what
would be so compelling?
Nothing Like at this point.
It's not even in my.
I know that you shouldn't takeit for granted and it could
always be right here, but Ireally don't think about it.

Al Levy (01:15:39):
I give you credit.
That's good news.
Yeah, I was 40 years old, I'dlost the weight and, for the
first time in my life, I kept itoff for three years.
And what did I do, corey?
I said to myself I'm cute, Ithink I got this.
Yeah, yeah, and it just it waslike holding down a never ending
flight of stairs.
Yep, you got it today, myfriend.
That's it, that's it All right.

I know your story, corey.
And then like, well, can I gethigh and not drink, and that's
fine.
Like I'm also all about harmreduction anymore and I'm
certainly not judging anybodyabout how they live their lives.
That's again one of the otherblessings of just like you know

(01:16:20):
what girl there's a lot to do inmy own hula hoop without
judging where anybody else isgoing to go with this.
So yeah, but it's a good way to.
It's a good way for me to liveand just to have that one moment
at a time.
Effect of living life as arecovering person.

Al Levy (01:16:33):
Yeah, it's really great about them now.

So, since it is your show, yeah, it is your show,
Since it's your show why don'tyou just take us home here?

Yeah, you know this has been great.
We've talked about everythingthat I had no expectations today
.
I already knew it was going tobe wonderful, but it was exactly
what it was supposed to be.

Well, we've been all around the world on this, but I
tell you, to spend time with myboys here makes me a really
happy girl, so let's do it againsometime.

Absolutely so.
Where can people find you,ellen, and you Al?

Al Levy (01:17:05):
I am a seven, the number seven.
Powercontractorcom is your bestplace to go.
There's a lot of really free,good information.
In my blogs I've been writingfor a thousand years and there's
also my programs are there.

So you just toward the pages.
You're going to learn something.
Anyway, that's my advice.
Oh, and you can find me atellenrohrcom,
e-l-l-e-n-r-o-h-rcom, and ateroar, at servicetitancom.
And we're going to Australiawith our world of Titans
Australia event coming up.
So, I'll give you the link tothat it's it's designed
primarily for Australian tradies.
However, if you want to come toAustralia, we've got a cool

(01:17:47):
group of folks coming KeithMercurio, Ishmael Valdez, Tom
Howard, Catherine Elizabeth, me,the Irwins, who were the first
company on Service Titan inAustralia.
It is going to be epic, so I'llmake sure you get the link to
that.

I bet our friend Alan Ferguson is going to be
there.
Alan, Ferguson.

Yes, I've reached out to him.
I love Alan Ferguson, butthat's a reminder, I'm going to
nudge him.
All right guys, You're going tonudge him.
All right guys, you're going tohave to look up Matt as well.
Matt is like our primarysupporter.
All of us have been on hispodcast we're promoting on the
site shed.
Matt is very excited about this.

Al Levy (01:18:24):
Matt is great.

You know what?
Can I ask you a question afterwe wrap?

Al Levy (01:18:30):
Yeah.

Okay, because it just dawned on me.
I have a one more thing to askyou, but it isn't relevant to
the.
Here's the registration page,cory.
I'm going to put this up here,though, but it isn't relevant to
the podcast.
It's just a personal thing.
Okay, even though we've beenpersonal, yeah too late too,
late too, late and it is needed.

Al Levy (01:18:53):
No, what were you gonna?
What was the personal?

thing yeah, too late, too late, too late, and it
is needed.
No, what were you going to?
What was the personal thing?
Did I miss that?
I was looking at the link she'sgoing to.

Al Levy (01:19:00):
she's waiting for you to stop recording so she can ask
you the personal thing.

Oh, got it.
Oh yeah, thank you both.

Or just edit this.

No, I'll just, I'll stop the recording For old
people.

Al Levy (01:19:11):
that's all folks.

That's all folks.

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