Discover how Ellen Rohr transformed her life from marrying a plumber to becoming an influential leader in the trades industry. Ellen shares her vibrant journey with businesses like Benjamin Franklin Plumbing and Zoom Drain Franchising, highlighting her dedication to empowering tradespeople. With insights from business consultant Al Levy and industry expert Frank Blau, Ellen underscores the importance of mentorship and financial literacy in achieving success.
Explore the unexpected twists and turns of the drain cleaning industry through Ellen's candid reflections on financial challenges and personal dynamics. She opens up about the emotional rollercoaster of working with a spouse and transforming business hurdles into growth opportunities. Ellen’s unique story involves selling a plumbing business to its team, showcasing the power of open book management and instilling entrepreneurial ambitions within an organization.
From leveraging technology in hiring to mastering marketing strategies, Ellen offers a wealth of knowledge on optimizing operations and identifying top talent. Her enthusiasm is contagious as she discusses the role of AI in revolutionizing the hiring process, shares marketing insights inspired by figures like Dave Ramsey, and details the strength found in networking and collaboration. Listen to Ellen’s inspiring narrative and gain valuable perspectives on building successful careers and businesses in the trades.
https://www.servicetitan.com/blog/news-ellen-rohr-joins-servicetitan
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bare-bones-biz-inc.
https://www.audible.com/pd/9-Simple-Steps-to-Sell-More-ht-Audiobook/B0D4SJYD4Q?source_code=ASSORAP0511160006&share_location=library_overflow
https://www.amazon.com/Simple-Steps-Sell-More-Stereotypes-ebook/dp/B0BRNSFYG6/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1OSB7HX6FQMHS&keywords=corey+berrier&qid=1674232549&sprefix=%2Caps%2C93&sr=8-1
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Barrier,and I am here with the one and
only Ellen Rohr.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi, Super excited to talk to you.
I think you're one of the mostinteresting people on the planet
.
I love Jonathan.
We just spent some timetogether at Lance Bachman's
roofing event and here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Ellen, most people know who you are, but there
could be one or two out there.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
In our industry.
I told my husband that in theballcock replacement industry
I'm a big deal.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
For those that may not know who you are
hypothetically, let's just givea little bit of background, if
you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, I married a plumber.
I married my husband, Hot Rod,once upon a time, and that's how
I got into the trades and Ilove trades people Corey and I
were just talking.
I've got our tile team and thegranite guy.
They're here to help me withthe bathroom remodel and I just
love them.
I love contractors.
When I met these cool guysthrough my husband and since
(01:08):
then I've been through theringer as far as being the wife
of a plumber, having to figureout the financial piece of
things once upon a time, and Ireally leveraged that experience
into a great career.
I've worked.
I helped stand up BenjaminFranklin, the punctual plumber,
once upon a time.
I'm now an owner and founder ofZoom Drain Franchising and I've
worked with thousands ofcontractors along the way.
(01:31):
Primarily, I help people makemore money, figure out where the
money is, where it goes and howto make more of it.
So that's been my career andright now I'm also standing up
the brand ambassador program atService Titan.
So I get to shine a spotlighton cool people in the trades and
I couldn't be happier aboutthis new position.
(01:53):
So I'm a busy girl.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, so tell me about what does it mean?
As the brand ambassador?
I forgot what you just said.
You just said it Brandambassador, what did you call it
?
I forgot what you just said.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You just said it Brand ambassador.
What did you call it, the brandambassador?
Well, think of it this way RedBull.
Red Bull is to extreme sports.
What service Titan can be totradespeople.
Okay, so our intention with thisprogram is to shine a spotlight
on tradespeople, frominstallers and technicians to
(02:25):
call takers and dispatchers,executives, owners hopefully
some diversity, because it'snice to see people who look like
us out there in the world.
And so I'm just in this greatposition to be able to brag on
trades people of all stripes asa and in this brand ambassador
(02:48):
program.
So, if you're interested, reachme E-roar, e-r-o-h-r at service
Titancom.
So we've got some superambassadors Lance is a super
ambassador, tommy Mello is asuper ambassador.
We've got our core group ofsuper ambassadors a Khadija head
, catherine Pollock, carrieKelsch, stephanie Allen a really
(03:09):
exciting group.
And I'm also looking for peoplewho love social media, have a
personality and a message, corey.
They have something that theywant to say and I'm interested
in that.
We are at Service Titan, sothat's my real job.
Then I've always got lots goingon and I love doing podcasts.
(03:30):
What's fun about doing apodcast with you is I get to
learn a little bit more of you,about you and who hire.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So thanks for the conversation You're welcome and
I'm very lucky to have stuckwith this for as long as I have,
because it really has openedthe door to talk to people like
you that maybe outside ofpassing in a conference, or not
to mention you're pulled in7,000 different directions.
(03:57):
I get to sit down with peoplelike you and talk and just get
to know who really who Ellen is,outside of all the things that
we hear.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It's the best we're going to have this time together
that we wouldn't have otherwise.
Podcasts are great to dive alittle deeper into a topic.
I listen to them all the timeand I learn so much.
And it's fun to be on a podcastbecause you get to spend some
real quality time together and Ihave to mention your, dear
friend and my dear friend AlLevy.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's fun to be on a podcast because you get to spend
some real quality time together.
Yes, and I have to mention yourdear friend and my dear friend,
al Levy.
That man is just like dear tomy heart.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I know he's dear to your heart.
Yeah, oh, isn't he best?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Al's the best.
Such a just an amazing humanbeing.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm so glad he's your friend too.
He's had such an impact on mylife.
I quote Al at least five timesa day.
We laugh because there's twothings about Al One.
We wish he wasn't right sooften.
He's always right, and weshould just wear bracelets that
say WWAD.
What would Al do?
Wad?
(05:09):
What would Al do?
And just do it.
So yeah, he's good Old school,not glamorous.
He's a meat and potatoesoperator and his stuff is solid.
So I'm so glad that you'refriends with him too.
So, Al Levy, seven powercontractor, if you're taking
notes today, that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, he's one of my favorite guys.
He really is.
So, ellen, let's talk about so.
You helped build Zoom Drain.
You're part owner in the entirefranchise, is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, in fact Al Levy was our original investor.
So Al Levy and I both of ushave a long career in business
consulting.
We go, we boss you around alittle bit, we try to listen and
do as directed and give yousome good counsel and then we
leave like Mary Poppins.
(05:51):
So Al and I have been in theconsulting world for most of our
careers and Al does operationsand sales and marketing and
really helps stand up a business.
But the financial piece hedidn't like that much.
So he tapped me to come in anddo that piece with some of his
(06:12):
clients.
That's how I met Tommy Mello,for instance.
He was working with Alan than Iwas.
And then one day Jim and I were, al and I were talking and we
would do little businessplanning sessions and Al said to
me okay, what do you have leftin your career?
What's something you reallywant to do?
I'd had this experience withBenjamin Franklin Benjamin
(06:32):
Franklin, the punctual plumberand I really learned to love
franchising.
I just didn't know anythingabout it before then.
I liked the model.
I thought there's some coolthings we could do with it.
I wanted to do it again.
Thought there's some coolthings we could do with it.
I wanted to do it again and Isaid to Al I'd like to franchise
.
Maybe one of our clients willmagnetize them.
They're ready to franchise,we're ready to go.
(06:57):
I didn't really want to pushanybody or move them in that
direction.
I thought I bet this will justorganically evolve.
And Al said well, that's great,because I want to invest.
On my list is still to be aventure capitalist and to invest
in companies I believe in.
So as we're talking, al's phonelights up and it's Jim Crenitty
, the owner of Zoom Drain, andhe says I'd like to franchise
Zoom Drain.
Do you think we could do it?
(07:18):
And we're like we were justtalking about you and that's
really how Zoom Drain cametogether and that's I think like
eight, nine years ago maybethat we had that first
conversation and now we haveabout 60 locations.
I got the gray hair to show forit, that's why I color my hair
and and wonderful stories andsuccesses.
(07:39):
And it's just, I love draincleaning.
I never thought I would saythat as a kid.
It's funny how life turns.
Go Drain cleaning.
It's my favorite niche.
I love the trades, but oh,drain cleaning so good, so
essential and wonderful anddirty and the guys who and
people who do it.
I love them so much, so that'show I came together with Zoom
(08:01):
Drain.
Now, al took an exit when wegot PE investors.
We have a wonderful investmentgroup, mbk Equity.
I love them and now it's adifferent company.
It looks different as you getbigger.
That's what allowed me to moveaside from day to day and open
(08:22):
up the opportunity for me.
I'm still involved with ZoomDrain, but I'm now responsible
for the brand ambassador programat Service Titan.
Thanks for asking.
It feels good to brag on all mycoworkers and teammates.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, it sounds like Zoom Drainwas pretty easy to build and
probably not a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So tell me about.
Are you being sarcastic?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Very much, so Tell me about.
I know that, looking back, youprobably do remember a lot of
the good times, but I'm curiousand I like to ask people.
There had to be some prettydark moments in this process.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
The joke that the kid is digging through a pile of
poop and he says there has to bea pony in there somewhere.
That is 100 percent me.
I am a very optimistic personand my partner, jim Crenitty,
whose personality is verydifferent from mine, like I'm
really outgoing and I talk a lot, I love to visit with people, I
(09:34):
have a lot of outward energy.
He's more of an internal guy,he's very thoughtful, he's also
incredibly optimistic and hesays that optimism is a
characteristic of a greatentrepreneur and I agree that
doesn't mean these horribletimes haven't happened, but to
me I always feel like in a badstory there's a pony in here
(09:57):
somewhere.
But man, I've been through alot and I think some of my
what's the word I want to use,resilience comes through age and
having survived some thingsthat really scared me.
Now, once upon a time, Iremember Hot Rod and I would lie
in bed and I'd look at theceiling and I'd say we are $500
(10:20):
short.
If I just had $500, we'd beable to get payroll.
And then it became 5,000.
Looking at the ceiling, justadding up in my head middle of
the night all the stuff youshouldn't do right, 5,000 and
then 50,000.
But that gut-wrenching I'm notgoing to make it moment I can
still viscerally feel right nowand I don't think it ever goes
(10:44):
away.
I think you get better at hereit is again.
Breathe through it, go for awalk, workout, take care of
yourself, put it aside.
This is where I think whathappened in my career early is
getting to a known financialposition, figuring out the
balance sheet and the profitloss.
This was like the pivotal pointin my life, in my career,
(11:07):
because once I knew where themoney was, where it's coming
from, where it's going, once Igot it like the scorecards
nailed down then myconversations with Hot Rod the
emotion went down and things gota little better.
So instead of me saying wedon't have enough money which he
(11:29):
would hear as I'm not goodenough, I'm not working hard
enough, and we would fight Well,how much I don't know.
That's where it was before.
And then, once I started to getmy arms around the financials,
I could say, okay, here's whatwe're bringing in, here's what
we're expending.
We could raise our prices, wecould do this.
It seems like that was reallythe beginning of the beginning
(11:50):
for me, so that's really what Ibuilt my career on.
Corey was just my own personalexperience of trying to handle
those scare the poop out of yourmoments, of being an
entrepreneur, being a familybusiness or just being the one
on the line for the money.
Is that a good start here?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, it is, and so actually I was thinking I was
going to ask you, and if youcould go into more detail, what
kind of impact, if you remember,did it have on your marriage?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh well, for one, we just don't work together anymore
.
It was okay.
So two, two things happenedthat were really important and
again, that's why I wrote thebooks, it's why I went into the
career I have is an evolution ofmy personal development.
What happened in my life and Ithought I can't be the only one
dealing with this Maybe I couldshare what I've learned Getting
(12:50):
a handle on the money.
Back in the day we didn't havepodcasts like going back 40
years.
We only had trade magazines,which are still relevant.
My husband devours them, himfor the technical stuff.
I'm always looking for thebusiness guru in this magazine.
But back in the day Frank Blauwrote an article called how Much
(13:13):
Should a Contractor Cost?
1989, Plumbing and MechanicalMagazine.
And I remember this and I readit and I understood the math.
But I thought he was bananasbecause he suggested you should
charge more than it costs.
That sounds reasonable, right.
(13:33):
But I didn't learn that.
In college I learned aboutgoing right and what the market
will bear and to be competitiveand all this other stuff.
So I wrote Frank a letter andtold him that, yeah, I get the
math, but that would never workfor me.
So I, like, did that basicreach out for help but then
resist it.
And he called me up and he toldme where my head was and it was
(13:56):
a.
Frank Blau, the author of themagazine article, gets the
letter and then calls me up andtells me that I'm an idiot and I
hang up on him and like thisbegins this really great
relationship with me and Frank.
And I know you have arelationship with Nextar.
Nextar was George Brazil, frankBlau and a bunch of their
(14:16):
buddies and they got togetherand they created something
that's still amazing andrelevant today, which was a home
of progressive and aggressivecontractors, started with
plumbers and HVAC guys andexpanded.
But Frank's mark is all overthat organization and all the
people who've gone through it.
So a lot of us have have Frankto thank for kind of
(14:38):
straightening us out.
So as we got the money figuredout, we made more money and it
was that fast.
We raised our prices, we gotout of debt, we started to.
It happened so fast.
Once we just took the medicine,as Frank says, I felt like born
again.
Like how do people not knowbalance sheet profit loss?
(15:00):
I didn't have a degree inbusiness, like I was just like
so on fire about it.
And so I turned to my husband.
Hot Rod, money buys options,right?
So I turned to Hot Rod and I gookay, what do you want to do
next?
We're up in Park City.
We could go to Salt Lake.
I know where all the richpeople live.
Let's go take all their money.
I just had this game plan andHot Rod said to me I don't want
(15:22):
to do any of that, I likeworking all by myself.
I'm a technician.
This business, this businessthing I don't like, and that was
hard.
One of the things I learnedthere, corey, was I wanted my
husband to be different, andthat is not a good plan.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
No, so how did you?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
navigate.
That Isn't that brutal, oh sohow did you?
Know that Brutal.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, how did you know that?
Because, when this is notuncommon for people in the
trades, a lot of them, more thanthe most of people in the
trades, do think a lot that way.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well, and, like you know, later on I talk to people
Well, so what's your game planhere?
Well, at some point my dad'sgoing to do this and this.
And I'm like, well, what if hedoesn't?
Well, and then like, are youwaiting for your dad to die?
He's only 60.
Like, this is not a good plan.
(16:25):
But that really came out of meunderstanding.
Now I relapse on this, I tellyou, I relapse, but my life goes
much better when I just let myhusband be, just be, and then
that leaves me free and clear.
But you can see too that if hewould just do what I wanted him
to do, if he were moreinterested in my plans, then we
(16:47):
could do this, as he just wasn't.
And so I wrote the books.
Where did the money go?
How much did I charge?
And then the next two books Iwrote were on business planning,
and the essential businessplanning questions are what do
you want?
Why do you want that?
Like what and why are greatquestions.
And he and I did not want thesame things and for different
(17:08):
reasons.
Did not want the same thingsand for different reasons.
So this we almost split up.
It's hard, and I know peoplewho have the marriage.
The business has ruined thefamily relationships or the
marriage.
We have stories like that.
It is, it's a row to hoe.
And so when I and Hot Roddecided that you know what, why
(17:29):
don't we just do differentthings?
That was probably the reasonwhy now we've been married for
40 years, because otherwise noway.
And I wouldn't work again withhim no way.
And it's not.
He's a great person, he'sprobably the most
self-actualized guy I know.
It's just we don't have thesame vision of what we want to
(17:49):
do.
I like a team, I like people, Ilike creativity, I like mess
and making things happen that Icouldn't do on my own.
And he is a lone wolf.
He'll be in his shop tinkeringand he is well-respected, super
well-regarded in his niche ofthis industry, in the hydronics
and solar world of plumbing thatniche.
(18:12):
He's one of the top thoughtleaders.
He's got an amazing career, butit wasn't what I wanted.
And so I think just a reallyimportant responsibility that we
each have is to look inward andsay what is it that I really
want and be willing to march inthat direction.
(18:34):
And I think some business ownersI think some business owners
are like hot rod.
They really don't want to bethere.
A friend of mine, jim Mostynski, who also used to he'd be an.
He was an editor or publisherat Plumbing and Mechanical.
Once upon a time he said wecannibalize our team members.
Now this ties in with who hire.
We cannibalize them becausethere's nowhere to go.
(18:55):
They're working for a companywhere there's no opportunity.
We don't keep them busy all thetime, and so they end up
leaving that company.
They're uneducated as far asbeing business owners and then
they go start their own horriblebusiness and they maybe really
never would have or wanted to.
(19:15):
So I think there's some of thattoo.
If you really don't want to bein business for yourself,
there's some pretty coolcompanies out there that you
could work with Instead.
Let me stop, because I can seeyou're thinking stop, because I
can see you're thinking.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, I think that a lot of people think that the old
saying, the grass is greener onthe other side, but they don't
really realize they don't thinkabout all of the stuff that a
business owner and rightfully so.
They're not supposed to thinkabout, all the things that a
business owner is to think about, starting out, because they
haven't been there and theyhaven't done it, and so there's
no handbook on all the thingsthat go on inside of a business.
(19:57):
It would be impossible to guessall the things that have cost
you a fortune and unexpectedsituations.
How are you?
There's no handbook on how tohandle that, unless you've got
the right emotional intelligence.
If you have the right, a lot oftimes it's patience, it's just
(20:18):
being able to, you know, resetwhen things go sideways.
That's not a skill everybody'sgot well.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And so what happened with me and Hot Rod?
This is going way back, butwhen we realized this?
So, like, make sure the ownersare on the same page.
That's a good takeaway fromtoday.
And, if not, do something else.
Like, don't wait for your dador mom or kid or wife or anybody
to change.
Instead, maybe you could branchout on your own.
(20:50):
Oh, I know that I can just feelthe energy of that.
That is super scary.
However, it's okay, it will beokay.
So we decide that we are goingto sell the business and we
start asking some other localplumbing companies around, and
then our team members came to us.
We had three plumbers plus HotRod at this little company and
(21:12):
they came to us and they said wewant to buy it.
And I'm like, oh, that would begood.
Now, keep in mind that when Iwas going through these changes
with Frank and I'm raising myprices and I'm trying to figure,
I am showing my team members,our team members here's the math
, here's the balance sheet,here's how much we're in debt.
Here's what we're trying to do.
I didn't know how else to sellthem on these changes.
(21:34):
Like here you tell me like,what am I missing?
And so I just started showingthem the information.
And then we're talking beforethe call.
Then I read this book called theGreat Game of Business by Jack
Stack and I'm like, oh, this iscalled open book management.
This is actually a thing, it'sa movement.
And I then pursued Jack Stack,so I called him.
(21:59):
I did a little radio show onthe internet they didn't have
podcasts back then, it wascalled Internet Radio.
I invited him, I talked to himfor about an hour.
I ended up moving toSpringfield, missouri, which is
where they're located.
It was crazy and imposed myselfon him.
And about an hour I ended upmoving to Springfield, missouri,
which is where they're located.
It was crazy and imposed myselfon him and his team.
And I absolutely love Greatgame of business, jack Stack,
steve Baker Look these guys up.
(22:19):
They changed my life.
Now.
They gave me some construct forwhat I was doing.
So when our team members tookover, they had some financial
literacy training, just a littlebit, but it was enough that
they went into it with someeducation.
So all these things change youFrom there on out.
(22:40):
I thought I will do that everytime I have an opportunity.
It's what I always encourage myclients to do in my consulting
business.
It's what we do at Zoom Drainis let the team in on the game.
One page dashboard report bringthem to the party.
All of that is a result of myexperience with it, but I do
remember we're in the middle ofselling the company and it's
(23:02):
officially the guy's company.
Now we're still there.
We ended up moving to Missouriand buying a farm and going
middle-aged crazy and hot rodstarted another business.
I went to work with next star,so there's all this stuff
happening.
But while we were still workingtogether I remember one of the
guys like turned his body andhis elbow, hit a Grundfos pump
(23:23):
and knocked it on the ground andit broke and he just went.
That's $80.
And I thought that only happensif you're the owner.
That only happens if you're theowner that you like.
Oh, you have that moment and itwas a cool moment, just like
yeah, I know that sucks, right.
(23:43):
And then you start to hand overthat stewardship to the new
team.
It was pretty exciting, but youare well served to teach your
team what you're doing and toidentify in your team when
you're interviewing part of theoverall process.
Would you like to have your ownbusiness one day have you had a
(24:06):
business of your own?
What are your entrepreneurialambitions?
A business of your own, whatare your entrepreneurial
ambitions?
Because you for those of youwho've ever had someone on your
team start their own business Ihope you're really proud of that
.
Hope you're really proud ofthat.
That's a cool thing.
That's one of the great thingsyou get to do in this country.
In some countries you cannotstart your own business.
It's too onerous.
(24:26):
You won't do it unless you're arelative of the president or
whatever.
So if that happens, that's nota lose.
That could be a big win for youand them.
And the other thing is couldyou teach them how to grow their
own business and then be sointeresting and creative in the
development of your businessthat they don't want to leave?
(24:47):
And this is what you'll see?
Lance Bachman he and I did apodcast yesterday.
He gives out a lot of equityearly.
He has a lot of equity outthere.
Tom Howard is very generouswith equity, more aggressive
than I would be, and I'mfascinated in watching this like
, wow, that's super interesting.
(25:08):
That could be a.
Really.
That could be a reason whythey're so successful.
So, in any event, teachingpersonal financial literacy and
business literacy.
Hey, one guy who's really rockedmy world.
What was his name?
Who's the get out of debt guy?
Old guy, dave Ramsey.
He's been around, he's beenaround and I loved him and he's
(25:31):
done a lot of good for people.
However, there's a fresh voicein that space and I love him a
lot.
His name is Ramit Sethi,r-a-m-i-t.
R-a-m-i-t.
Even as a Netflix show.
His book is called I Can Teachyou to Be Rich.
It's really good for personalfinance he the man, really like
(25:52):
him.
And then for business finance.
Hey, have a budgeting session.
Take your team through it.
How, if you were to start abusiness of your own, this is
what you have to consider.
Here's what goes into ourselling prices.
All of this I experienced cory,and that's what I would teach.
As I learned it.
I thought someone else may beinterested, and then I'd see
(26:13):
their experience.
I had this lab going with thepeople I was working with and
learning from and, like you, I'dtravel the world to see a cool
company.
I'd just go.
Can I come to your shop?
Can we get on the phone?
I would just go to figure itout.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And I've learned a lot over the years as a result
of people's generosity.
I will say that's one thing Ithink is one of the most
impressive things about thisindustry is most people that
have done well.
They don't mind showing youwhat they did Like they don't.
I think maybe part of that'sbecause the likeliness of you
going out and duplicating it'sprobably not very good.
But also, I think people arejust really generous in our
(26:58):
industry, more generous than anyother industry I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Well, I think there's a bit of an evolution to it,
because I was noticing this InHVAC and I'm going to be a bit
stereotypical right here.
I believe there's a bit of asophistication hierarchy.
I think right now, really greatHVAC contractors are the best
(27:23):
marketers in the world in anyindustry.
Like these guys, they have itdialed down.
And then maybe plumbingcompanies and also these guys
might be the same companies, andthen maybe electricians are
catching up, and then we haverestoration, roofing, pest
(27:46):
control, drain cleaning.
Are you with me?
Like, I think there are certainindustries where it really that
level and it's a marketingmindset.
I believe that you have tocommunicate who you are.
I think that the farther downthis hierarchy you go, the more
likely a business owner is tosay well, everybody knows me,
(28:08):
it's word of mouth, that's all Ido, but then, as a result,
they're a small company.
Now again, if that's what youwant, great, but if you want to
grow, one of the skill sets youhave to learn is marketing how
to market your business and findpeople who know how to do that.
Now, as you move up thishierarchy, the more successful
(28:28):
you are generally, the morewilling you are to share because
you've had some help.
You never got there by yourself.
People have opened up theirshop as you move up, but in some
industries that are not quiteas sophisticated overall
stereotypically I'm not talkingabout individual companies, just
like the group itself there isa lot more reticence to share.
(28:52):
There's more of a I'm not goingto let anybody in and see,
based on really just not anunderstanding yet, but they'll
get there.
Now, the cool thing about that,corey, is I think that's where
the real opportunities are In mycareer.
I just wouldn't start an HVACcompany.
The field's too good, field'stoo good.
(29:14):
But give me power washing, giveme drain cleaning.
I love drinking.
That's one of the reasons Ilove it.
You just have to be better thanthe average bear, and the
average bear is not that great,not like some of the more
sophisticated trays.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes total sense.
There's so much opportunity.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
You just made me think of something, so I don't
know how you ran this with ZoomDrain.
You probably know Alan Ferguson, do you know Alan?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh, I love Alan Ferguson.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I love Alan too.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I know him from Contractors 2000, 100 years ago,
and we have remained friends tothis day.
I love him from Contractors2000, 100 years ago yeah, and we
have remained friends to thisday.
I love him a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Okay, so tell me your story.
It is which is often frownedupon, I think, by people that
don't understand how that works.
I'll see in plumbing groupswhere they just will bash the
daylights out of someone that'srunning a very cheaper drain
(30:25):
clean or whatever.
There's two things right Draincleaning and what's the other
one?
Yeah?
What another industry like no,you could do two separate things
.
When you go out to you, youcould do a drain cleaning or a
drain inspection.
No, I don't know what I'mtrying to think of, it doesn't
(30:46):
matter.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, I, I can't remember well I think carry on
with your story about the 59,because I do have some thoughts
on those yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So the idea is that you get there and it's time.
You've got to count the timethat you're there and if you're
not counting the time and yousee your guys are spending two
and a half hours on a fifty ninedollar drain clean, naturally
it's not going to be productive,right?
So the idea is not that you'regoing to try to milk the
customer for every dime that youcan, but if you go there and
(31:17):
you find more problems, that youhave to charge for those.
So yeah.
So tell me your thoughts onthat.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I tend to change my thoughts.
Okay, I'll tell you my currentthoughts.
Okay, fair enough.
Like I'm cause, I don't thinkwe have to.
There's something to be saidfor changing your mind.
When you have more informationor you're of a different opinion
, you get to get.
Your value should stay prettyconstant, but your tactics can
move around a little bit.
(31:45):
I am one that doesn't like thediscount loss leader for drain
cleaning.
Now, if you do drain cleaningbut you also do plumbing, you
could do free drain cleaning tosee what needs to be done.
We could clear the drain andthen your your understanding is
so many drains are going to needto be replaced or repaired that
(32:09):
this becomes your lead offering.
Correct, like, I'm followingright.
I understand the math behind it.
However, I don't lovediscounting the honorable work
that we do.
I don't like like a plasticsurgeon.
If I was going to have plasticsurgery, I've noticed that maybe
(32:29):
I should have a facelift.
I'll probably never get aroundto it, but just saying like, if
I were going to go to a plasticsurgeon and they were doing like
a two for one discount, Iwouldn't use that plastic
surgeon.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
You see where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And lawyers who do really aggressive like marketing
, where you don't pay anythingand we're going to get a class
action suit.
They don't have a greatreputation there.
Again, I just don't like thereflection on the industry of
giving away free work.
Sure, I like now what I do.
(33:08):
We do at zoom drain is we willcome and do a bid on the job and
you can say no, so we don'tcharge anything to come and look
at the job.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Right and we only give at that point our opinion
and they can take the opinionand do it, do whatever.
And then our responsibility isto train our team members well
enough to present appropriateoptions and prices and have the
customer say yes, now in draincleaning.
If you're doing that modelright, you're going to close 92,
(33:41):
93% of your jobs because no onereally wants to send a
professional drain cleanerpacking if they've got a drain
problem.
Like you're going to make asale today unless you do
something offensive, does that?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
make sense.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
So I think that in our industry I'm not saying this
will be the way we do itforever.
However, we support not doing a$29 drain thing and then
explaining it's only this muchand that you didn't cover that
and we just don't want to makeit that complicated and we want
to give an opinion.
(34:17):
You can go to a lawyer usuallyand get a little bit of expert
advice before the clock startsticking.
Same thing with a surgeon.
They might just say I'm notsure that surgery is right for
you, but let's see and have alittle meeting.
So I really like elevating theindustry in that way, but I'm
okay, like if everybody's doingit one way and if it gets
(34:37):
complicated I'm definitely goingto want to go in another
direction.
Here's another thing that Ifeel like a bit of a rebel about
this, but I've met more andmore people on my, on my game
plan.
Ishmael Valdez at New Bay isone of these guys.
There's a lot of work that goesinto maintenance agreements.
Now I liked plan service andthis is different.
(35:00):
Like at Zoom Drain, we couldput together a price for a
commercial property that needsthe grease traps done, refreshed
, cleaned out once a quarter,and here's the price to do it.
It's non-emergency work.
It's good for you, it's goodfor them, but those are real
prices.
Those are not discount,giveaway, loss leader prices.
Planned maintenance are goodsales, but a maintenance
(35:23):
agreement as a plumber's wife,what does it include?
Well, we'll wash out your waterheater once a year.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Well, here's what I know, no plumber does this.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I don't know anyone.
I don't know anyone in thetrades who rinses out their
water heater and as soon as youtake that little valve off the
bottom, it's never going to holdagain.
It's a problematic job and Ijust like it just sounds
complicated.
And now we have the revenue.
Well, you're supposed to holdit as deferred income.
And now you have to move it andservice Titan can help you do
(35:55):
that and it's fine and a lot ofpeople have been uber successful
with it.
But all of that makes me go.
What do we need them for?
Why don't we just text them andlet them know it's time to
clear your drains, it's time towash your windows.
I got the idea because I've gotthis guy.
I don't even know his name, buthe will like quarterly text me
(36:17):
and says hey, ellen, it's timeto come over and wash your
windows.
Is Thursday, OK.
And I go yes, I've never had mywindows washed.
I never signed anything, thanksfor being a VIP.
He says I'm a VIP, I didn'teven know, I could not find, I
could not nail this guy down ina crowd, I couldn't find him on
the Internet.
But I'm getting my windowscleaned all the time because
(36:40):
he's making the barrier toservice so small.
He's telling me it's time for Idon't have to track anybody
down, right?
And so now with Ishmael, he'sgot a thermostat, it's got your
name on it, you push on, it goesto your service time.
These are revolutionary thingsand they're breaking down the
barriers between when yourcustomer needs and wants you and
(37:02):
when you can appear Like maybewe could take more control of
that in ways that the customerwill really benefit.
So, anyway, I'm getting offtrack a little bit, but I
thought you'd like that, basedon the $59 drain conversation.
That's where my mind goes iswhat can we get out of the way
for?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
these guys?
Yeah Well, I think it'sconvenient.
So if it's convenient for me to, for me to do business with you
, then I'm probably going to dobusiness with you because it's
convenient, even if you're alittle bit more expensive, right
?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Well, yeah, pop quiz.
Now I have tile.
Troy is my tile guy, so Ineeded a granite guy.
What did I do to find a graniteguy?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I asked Troy, I didn't look.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I didn't search, I just said do you have a granite
guy?
Oh, I have a great granite guy.
That was Jared, who just showedup today.
So referral marketing too.
Now how easy can we makereferral marketing?
How can we get the cell phonenumbers?
Get on text threads with yourreferral partners, get them into
service Titan, do some regularreminders.
So we're helping each other out.
Boy, there's a guy, a localcontractor I'm going to brag on
(38:06):
a court and Maddie Lundberg.
All of their business comesfrom Facebook groups.
The lost dog Facebook groups,the disaster relief, the
Christmas somebody needs a handFacebook group.
They're just involved in theircommunity in such a way really
low touch, a really low.
They're not selling, they'rejust being great neighbors and
(38:32):
their referral business isbananas as a result.
Isn't that sexy Love that.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
It is sexy.
There's actually a softwarethat I discovered on this actual
topic where I could, if I go,if I'm in a Facebook group and I
want to know if Ellen postsabout I have a plumbing problem,
that it will tell.
It will shoot me an email withall your information, the post,
(39:00):
what group it came from, and youcan even reply right into the
software.
So can you imagine like, basedon those people's business
they're probably hunting throughall these groups all the time,
trying to it could come right totheir.
It's amazing, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Can you share that?
Can you share that?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I'll figure out the name of it.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I haven't used it Okay, yeah, and maybe post that
too.
Well, and there's anothersoftware we saw at the event the
other day PinParrot.
Did you see how that works?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
No, tell me.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
You know how you want your service tech.
Again, like, just make iteasier on the techs.
We ask them to things.
Okay, so it would be great ifour technicians dropped a pin
wherever they are and tookpictures.
And they're busy and we nagthem and I get it.
So Pin Parrot does that for you.
(39:49):
It like finds out where theyare, it pins them, it adds the
pictures that they're alreadyadding to service Titan.
I really don't know themechanics behind it, but what I
know is that they're taking itout of the tech's hands, out of
their responsibility, andthey're doing it for them.
What a lovely win right there.
We asked the techs to do so much.
(40:10):
This is where, like now theygot to sell a maintenance
agreement.
Now we have to get thepaperwork for it.
They have to explain acomplicated thing to the
customer, like what if we justdidn't do that?
What if we just assume nowthey're in our VIP club?
They're in our VIP club,they're on Marketing Pro or
whatever we're using toautomatically send information
(40:34):
back to that customer?
Second chance lead them allthose groovy automated things to
that customer.
Second chance lead them allthose groovy automated things,
apps.
Yesterday, when Lance and Iwere on our podcast.
It was really about theimportance of great people.
Corey, with awesome software,right the apps, the automation,
the AI, the stuff that willreally leverage what good people
(40:55):
can do.
This is where we are in ourdevelopment as an industry.
I see you shaking your head,you love that.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
So we work with WhoHire, we work with all of
Lance's companies, our system,and it's pretty unreal because
it solves the biggest problem inthe industry, which is finding
good people, and there's a wholelot of streamlining around the
processes and automations andit's really fascinating.
(41:25):
I just brought on I'm thepartnership director for the
company and we just brought onthe Elliott group.
Do you know, and you shouldprobably know Andy Elliott?
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, I know of him.
I haven't met him, but I knowhim when you think of that guy.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
you're like he's a sales trainer, right, he's a lot
of things, but sales is likehis thing, right.
And so I've been working reallyclosely with his team this week
and putting them through thisprocess and one of the guys just
sent me a message and said Itook the updated because there's
a little tweaking that goes onwith.
Some of the guys just sent me amessage and said I took the
updated because there's a littletweaking.
It goes on with some of thequestions and not a lot of
(42:04):
tweaking.
Actually Most of it's alreadybuilt out, but we tweaked his
and he retook it.
And for somebody that's acustomer to take from their own
standpoint, to take to gothrough the process and score an
89 on the whole thing out of100 is pretty compelling because
he knows how good he is insales and then to have this
(42:28):
program tell him how good he isin sales, it's pretty phenomenal
.
So it was really cool gettingthat message.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So you're like, you're on the bleeding edge of
this human, the human humanity.
Plus technology leverages yourability to succeed.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, yes, and so we've really taken we've taken
just gobs and got like 7,500people of real humans in the
field and then utilized ourtechnology to match that with
that performance data inside ofServiceTitan or whatever field
service software, and then,through AI, we can predict how
(43:12):
well your candidate's going todo, how well the applicant's
going to do in the whateverposition they're you're hiring
for, and so there's no possibleway that a human being would
ever be able to tell you theintricate information that we
can tell you.
I mean to be able to tell youif someone has grit or if they
(43:32):
have humility, or you know, overa 10 minute questionnaire is,
and that's just two out of the500 things.
It's ridiculous.
It's like a personality test onsteroids, like it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I'm really intrigued by what you're doing.
So, like, you're going to leteverybody know how to do a demo,
or, yeah for sure, yeah, okay,yeah for sure.
So, in addition to that, so so,like, in addition to getting a
demo of the who hire software,yeah, for the sake of our
conversation today, what is itthat you've learned about hiring
(44:10):
that most people don't know?
In addition to, like, wefigured it out and get the demo,
what's another like tip orsomething that, wow, it really
blew my mind when I figured thisout.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
All right, so I'll tell you, so I'll tell you.
I'm going to tell you twoseparate stories, to give you
two different examples.
So we did this whole thing withcleaning companies, right,
people that clean houses, andone of the traits that came up
to be the highest on the flightrisk.
(44:41):
So we can measure.
We measure performance andflight risk.
How long is somebody?
Speaker 2 (44:46):
going to stay.
How long do they stay?
How long do they stay?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
And are they going to perform once you hire them?
Data completely matched up withwas how sincere an applicant is
would determine how quicklythey're going to leave you.
Now that's really strange tothink about, because you would
never think the sincerity of ahuman being would determine how
(45:15):
quickly they're going to leaveyou.
But the data was there.
You couldn't argue with thedata.
Now here's a different story.
We have a guy in I think he's inTennessee, and he brought on
this guy who was like I don'tknow.
He was a Navy SEAL, he ran aChick-fil-A.
Like his resume was.
Nobody would argue with thisguy's resume, like there's no
(45:39):
question he's going to excel inthis position.
I think it was a servicemanager or something like that.
Well, a couple of months wentby.
The guy's not.
The numbers are not his numbersare not matching up with his
resume.
And so they hired him beforethey brought on WhoHire, and so
he gave all of his employees theWhoHire test and they were
(46:01):
sitting on an airplane headingto somewhere and the results
came back.
And so the Army guy or the Navyguy, whatever he was, said yeah
, let's look and see what itsays.
And this guy was like a 97%flight risk.
And so the owner was likewhat's up with this?
And he was like, oh, the AI iswrong.
(46:22):
30 days later he puts in hisnotice.
And here's the real kicker,because he gave all of the
employees the test.
There was a guy on his teamthat he said Corey, I would
never in a million years haveput this guy in this service
manager not in a million years,he said.
But his WhoHire score was thehighest of anybody that I've
(46:45):
ever seen, and our profit wentfrom 20% to 48% in 30 days and
hasn't dropped since Now.
Isn't that nuts?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
That is so cool, so do you recommend that you I'm
assuming, yes, that you wouldrecommend your existing team
members take this to see ifmaybe they're in the right seat
on the bus.
Yeah, or there may be some asyet unidentified leaders or
superstars you might have onyour team already.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Or unidentified flight risks.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Or unidentified flight risks.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Wow, your team already.
Or unidentified flight risks,or unidentified flight risks.
Think about how much damage atechnician does when he's got
one foot out the door he'slooking for another job.
He's half-assing his job everyday.
He's not giving you goodcustomer service.
He's certainly not chargingwhat he's supposed to be
charging because he doesn't care.
How much money does that cost?
Well, I'll tell you.
(47:40):
Here's the numbers.
To replace that guy is abouthalf of his salary, so just
pretend it's $100,000 he'smaking.
It's going to cost you about$50,000 in training, customer
loss, all of those things toreplace that guy.
Now imagine you do that 10times a year.
That's a half a million dollars.
And here's the problem On thebalance sheet every year there's
(48:05):
no place for turnover.
So it's like one of thesenumbers that are it's a massive
hole that you don't see on thebalance sheet.
So it's really hard to track.
But we've tracked it, but weknow.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
This is so good.
Well, you've got me intrigued.
All right, I want to see thedemo too for companies I'm
working with, and I'll rattlesome interest at Zoom Drain too.
Now, this is really cool and Ilove Jonathan so much, I love
you, you.
I'm so glad we had a chance toconnect and actually I talked to
(48:45):
christy dear, whom I know youchristina, christina, christina
oops, I knew I was gonna be herewhom I adore, yes and I was
telling her I'm like we reallyneed to talk to your dad.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I'm like I really need to talk to your dad.
I'm like I really need to talkto your dad because, like he and
she's like he's not your guy.
I could put you in front of theperson that you need to talk to
, but he's probably not going tobe your guy.
So I am going to talk with themat some point and maybe that
could be something you couldintroduce me to.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
I'm good, I'll put you on my end here.
Well.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Well, I know we're getting short on time but I and
thank you for asking I enjoyedthis so much.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
If someone bails on you at the last minute, you call
me and I give you my text andmy phone number.
So you call me and I'll come on, I'll be your, I'll be your
go-to fill in person.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
You're the best.
I really want to have you anout on actually.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Oh, we will.
We love it and we'll probablyargue It'll be a fantastic show.
We're like an old marriedcouple.
He's my work husband.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
I love it.
So, ellen, if somebody wants toreach out to you, where would
they go?
Speaker 2 (49:51):
L.
Let's use my Service Titanemail address.
It's the best E-R-O-H-R atservicetitancom.
Yes, stay in touch.
Let me know if you'reinterested in our brand
ambassador program.
And hey, I know cool peoplelike Corey.
If I can't help you out withsomething, I think I could
(50:12):
connect you.
So thanks, corey, let me knowwhen this comes out and I'll
help you spread the word.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Thank you, dear, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
You too too, love and say hi to Jonathan, thank you.
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Barrier,and I am here with the one and
only Ellen Rohr.
How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Hi, Super excited to talk to you.
I think you're one of the mostinteresting people on the planet
.
I love Jonathan.
We just spent some timetogether at Lance Bachman's
roofing event and here we are.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Yay.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Ellen, most people know who you are, but there
could be one or two out there.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
In our industry.
I told my husband that in theballcock replacement industry
I'm a big deal.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
For those that may not know who you are
hypothetically, let's just givea little bit of background, if
you don't mind.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Well, I married a plumber.
I married my husband, Hot Rod,once upon a time, and that's how
I got into the trades and Ilove trades people Corey and I
were just talking.
I've got our tile team and thegranite guy.
They're here to help me withthe bathroom remodel and I just
love them.
I love contractors.
When I met these cool guysthrough my husband and since
(01:08):
then I've been through theringer as far as being the wife
of a plumber, having to figureout the financial piece of
things once upon a time, and Ireally leveraged that experience
into a great career.
I've worked.
I helped stand up BenjaminFranklin, the punctual plumber,
once upon a time.
I'm now an owner and founder ofZoom Drain Franchising and I've
worked with thousands ofcontractors along the way.
(01:31):
Primarily, I help people makemore money, figure out where the
money is, where it goes and howto make more of it.
So that's been my career andright now I'm also standing up
the brand ambassador program atService Titan.
So I get to shine a spotlighton cool people in the trades and
I couldn't be happier aboutthis new position.
(01:53):
So I'm a busy girl.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Well, so tell me about what does it mean?
As the brand ambassador?
I forgot what you just said.
You just said it Brandambassador, what did you call it
?
I forgot what you just said.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
You just said it Brand ambassador.
What did you call it, the brandambassador?
Well, think of it this way RedBull.
Red Bull is to extreme sports.
What service Titan can be totradespeople.
Okay, so our intention with thisprogram is to shine a spotlight
on tradespeople, frominstallers and technicians to
(02:25):
call takers and dispatchers,executives, owners hopefully
some diversity, because it'snice to see people who look like
us out there in the world.
And so I'm just in this greatposition to be able to brag on
trades people of all stripes asa and in this brand ambassador
(02:48):
program.
So, if you're interested, reachme E-roar, e-r-o-h-r at service
Titancom.
So we've got some superambassadors Lance is a super
ambassador, tommy Mello is asuper ambassador.
We've got our core group ofsuper ambassadors a Khadija head
, catherine Pollock, carrieKelsch, stephanie Allen a really
(03:09):
exciting group.
And I'm also looking for peoplewho love social media, have a
personality and a message, corey.
They have something that theywant to say and I'm interested
in that.
We are at Service Titan, sothat's my real job.
Then I've always got lots goingon and I love doing podcasts.
(03:30):
What's fun about doing apodcast with you is I get to
learn a little bit more of you,about you and who hire.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So thanks for the conversation You're welcome and
I'm very lucky to have stuckwith this for as long as I have,
because it really has openedthe door to talk to people like
you that maybe outside ofpassing in a conference, or not
to mention you're pulled in7,000 different directions.
(03:57):
I get to sit down with peoplelike you and talk and just get
to know who really who Ellen is,outside of all the things that
we hear.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
It's the best we're going to have this time together
that we wouldn't have otherwise.
Podcasts are great to dive alittle deeper into a topic.
I listen to them all the timeand I learn so much.
And it's fun to be on a podcastbecause you get to spend some
real quality time together and Ihave to mention your, dear
friend and my dear friend AlLevy.
Speaker 1 (04:26):
It's fun to be on a podcast because you get to spend
some real quality time together.
Yes, and I have to mention yourdear friend and my dear friend,
al Levy.
That man is just like dear tomy heart.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I know he's dear to your heart.
Yeah, oh, isn't he best?
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Al's the best.
Such a just an amazing humanbeing.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
I'm so glad he's your friend too.
He's had such an impact on mylife.
I quote Al at least five timesa day.
We laugh because there's twothings about Al One.
We wish he wasn't right sooften.
He's always right, and weshould just wear bracelets that
say WWAD.
What would Al do?
Wad?
(05:09):
What would Al do?
And just do it.
So yeah, he's good Old school,not glamorous.
He's a meat and potatoesoperator and his stuff is solid.
So I'm so glad that you'refriends with him too.
So, Al Levy, seven powercontractor, if you're taking
notes today, that's right.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, he's one of my favorite guys.
He really is.
So, ellen, let's talk about so.
You helped build Zoom Drain.
You're part owner in the entirefranchise, is that correct?
Speaker 2 (05:30):
Yeah, in fact Al Levy was our original investor.
So Al Levy and I both of ushave a long career in business
consulting.
We go, we boss you around alittle bit, we try to listen and
do as directed and give yousome good counsel and then we
leave like Mary Poppins.
(05:51):
So Al and I have been in theconsulting world for most of our
careers and Al does operationsand sales and marketing and
really helps stand up a business.
But the financial piece hedidn't like that much.
So he tapped me to come in anddo that piece with some of his
(06:12):
clients.
That's how I met Tommy Mello,for instance.
He was working with Alan than Iwas.
And then one day Jim and I were, al and I were talking and we
would do little businessplanning sessions and Al said to
me okay, what do you have leftin your career?
What's something you reallywant to do?
I'd had this experience withBenjamin Franklin Benjamin
(06:32):
Franklin, the punctual plumberand I really learned to love
franchising.
I just didn't know anythingabout it before then.
I liked the model.
I thought there's some coolthings we could do with it.
I wanted to do it again.
Thought there's some coolthings we could do with it.
I wanted to do it again and Isaid to Al I'd like to franchise
.
Maybe one of our clients willmagnetize them.
They're ready to franchise,we're ready to go.
(06:57):
I didn't really want to pushanybody or move them in that
direction.
I thought I bet this will justorganically evolve.
And Al said well, that's great,because I want to invest.
On my list is still to be aventure capitalist and to invest
in companies I believe in.
So as we're talking, al's phonelights up and it's Jim Crenitty
, the owner of Zoom Drain, andhe says I'd like to franchise
Zoom Drain.
Do you think we could do it?
(07:18):
And we're like we were justtalking about you and that's
really how Zoom Drain cametogether and that's I think like
eight, nine years ago maybethat we had that first
conversation and now we haveabout 60 locations.
I got the gray hair to show forit, that's why I color my hair
and and wonderful stories andsuccesses.
(07:39):
And it's just, I love draincleaning.
I never thought I would saythat as a kid.
It's funny how life turns.
Go Drain cleaning.
It's my favorite niche.
I love the trades, but oh,drain cleaning so good, so
essential and wonderful anddirty and the guys who and
people who do it.
I love them so much, so that'show I came together with Zoom
(08:01):
Drain.
Now, al took an exit when wegot PE investors.
We have a wonderful investmentgroup, mbk Equity.
I love them and now it's adifferent company.
It looks different as you getbigger.
That's what allowed me to moveaside from day to day and open
(08:22):
up the opportunity for me.
I'm still involved with ZoomDrain, but I'm now responsible
for the brand ambassador programat Service Titan.
Thanks for asking.
It feels good to brag on all mycoworkers and teammates.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Yeah, for sure.
Well, it sounds like Zoom Drainwas pretty easy to build and
probably not a lot of work.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
So tell me about.
Are you being sarcastic?
Speaker 1 (08:47):
Very much, so Tell me about.
I know that, looking back, youprobably do remember a lot of
the good times, but I'm curiousand I like to ask people.
There had to be some prettydark moments in this process.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
The joke that the kid is digging through a pile of
poop and he says there has to bea pony in there somewhere.
That is 100 percent me.
I am a very optimistic personand my partner, jim Crenitty,
whose personality is verydifferent from mine, like I'm
really outgoing and I talk a lot, I love to visit with people, I
(09:34):
have a lot of outward energy.
He's more of an internal guy,he's very thoughtful, he's also
incredibly optimistic and hesays that optimism is a
characteristic of a greatentrepreneur and I agree that
doesn't mean these horribletimes haven't happened, but to
me I always feel like in a badstory there's a pony in here
(09:57):
somewhere.
But man, I've been through alot and I think some of my
what's the word I want to use,resilience comes through age and
having survived some thingsthat really scared me.
Now, once upon a time, Iremember Hot Rod and I would lie
in bed and I'd look at theceiling and I'd say we are $500
(10:20):
short.
If I just had $500, we'd beable to get payroll.
And then it became 5,000.
Looking at the ceiling, justadding up in my head middle of
the night all the stuff youshouldn't do right, 5,000 and
then 50,000.
But that gut-wrenching I'm notgoing to make it moment I can
still viscerally feel right nowand I don't think it ever goes
(10:44):
away.
I think you get better at hereit is again.
Breathe through it, go for awalk, workout, take care of
yourself, put it aside.
This is where I think whathappened in my career early is
getting to a known financialposition, figuring out the
balance sheet and the profitloss.
This was like the pivotal pointin my life, in my career,
(11:07):
because once I knew where themoney was, where it's coming
from, where it's going, once Igot it like the scorecards
nailed down then myconversations with Hot Rod the
emotion went down and things gota little better.
So instead of me saying wedon't have enough money which he
(11:29):
would hear as I'm not goodenough, I'm not working hard
enough, and we would fight Well,how much I don't know.
That's where it was before.
And then, once I started to getmy arms around the financials,
I could say, okay, here's whatwe're bringing in, here's what
we're expending.
We could raise our prices, wecould do this.
It seems like that was reallythe beginning of the beginning
(11:50):
for me, so that's really what Ibuilt my career on.
Corey was just my own personalexperience of trying to handle
those scare the poop out of yourmoments, of being an
entrepreneur, being a familybusiness or just being the one
on the line for the money.
Is that a good start here?
Speaker 1 (12:13):
Yeah, it is, and so actually I was thinking I was
going to ask you, and if youcould go into more detail, what
kind of impact, if you remember,did it have on your marriage?
Speaker 2 (12:28):
Oh well, for one, we just don't work together anymore
.
It was okay.
So two, two things happenedthat were really important and
again, that's why I wrote thebooks, it's why I went into the
career I have is an evolution ofmy personal development.
What happened in my life and Ithought I can't be the only one
dealing with this Maybe I couldshare what I've learned Getting
(12:50):
a handle on the money.
Back in the day we didn't havepodcasts like going back 40
years.
We only had trade magazines,which are still relevant.
My husband devours them, himfor the technical stuff.
I'm always looking for thebusiness guru in this magazine.
But back in the day Frank Blauwrote an article called how Much
(13:13):
Should a Contractor Cost?
1989, Plumbing and MechanicalMagazine.
And I remember this and I readit and I understood the math.
But I thought he was bananasbecause he suggested you should
charge more than it costs.
That sounds reasonable, right.
(13:33):
But I didn't learn that.
In college I learned aboutgoing right and what the market
will bear and to be competitiveand all this other stuff.
So I wrote Frank a letter andtold him that, yeah, I get the
math, but that would never workfor me.
So I, like, did that basicreach out for help but then
resist it.
And he called me up and he toldme where my head was and it was
(13:56):
a.
Frank Blau, the author of themagazine article, gets the
letter and then calls me up andtells me that I'm an idiot and I
hang up on him and like thisbegins this really great
relationship with me and Frank.
And I know you have arelationship with Nextar.
Nextar was George Brazil, frankBlau and a bunch of their
(14:16):
buddies and they got togetherand they created something
that's still amazing andrelevant today, which was a home
of progressive and aggressivecontractors, started with
plumbers and HVAC guys andexpanded.
But Frank's mark is all overthat organization and all the
people who've gone through it.
So a lot of us have have Frankto thank for kind of
(14:38):
straightening us out.
So as we got the money figuredout, we made more money and it
was that fast.
We raised our prices, we gotout of debt, we started to.
It happened so fast.
Once we just took the medicine,as Frank says, I felt like born
again.
Like how do people not knowbalance sheet profit loss?
(15:00):
I didn't have a degree inbusiness, like I was just like
so on fire about it.
And so I turned to my husband.
Hot Rod, money buys options,right?
So I turned to Hot Rod and I gookay, what do you want to do
next?
We're up in Park City.
We could go to Salt Lake.
I know where all the richpeople live.
Let's go take all their money.
I just had this game plan andHot Rod said to me I don't want
(15:22):
to do any of that, I likeworking all by myself.
I'm a technician.
This business, this businessthing I don't like, and that was
hard.
One of the things I learnedthere, corey, was I wanted my
husband to be different, andthat is not a good plan.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
No, so how did you?
Speaker 2 (15:48):
navigate.
That Isn't that brutal, oh sohow did you?
Know that Brutal.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
Well, how did you know that?
Because, when this is notuncommon for people in the
trades, a lot of them, more thanthe most of people in the
trades, do think a lot that way.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Well, and, like you know, later on I talk to people
Well, so what's your game planhere?
Well, at some point my dad'sgoing to do this and this.
And I'm like, well, what if hedoesn't?
Well, and then like, are youwaiting for your dad to die?
He's only 60.
Like, this is not a good plan.
(16:25):
But that really came out of meunderstanding.
Now I relapse on this, I tellyou, I relapse, but my life goes
much better when I just let myhusband be, just be, and then
that leaves me free and clear.
But you can see too that if hewould just do what I wanted him
to do, if he were moreinterested in my plans, then we
(16:47):
could do this, as he just wasn't.
And so I wrote the books.
Where did the money go?
How much did I charge?
And then the next two books Iwrote were on business planning,
and the essential businessplanning questions are what do
you want?
Why do you want that?
Like what and why are greatquestions.
And he and I did not want thesame things and for different
(17:08):
reasons.
Did not want the same thingsand for different reasons.
So this we almost split up.
It's hard, and I know peoplewho have the marriage.
The business has ruined thefamily relationships or the
marriage.
We have stories like that.
It is, it's a row to hoe.
And so when I and Hot Roddecided that you know what, why
(17:29):
don't we just do differentthings?
That was probably the reasonwhy now we've been married for
40 years, because otherwise noway.
And I wouldn't work again withhim no way.
And it's not.
He's a great person, he'sprobably the most
self-actualized guy I know.
It's just we don't have thesame vision of what we want to
(17:49):
do.
I like a team, I like people, Ilike creativity, I like mess
and making things happen that Icouldn't do on my own.
And he is a lone wolf.
He'll be in his shop tinkeringand he is well-respected, super
well-regarded in his niche ofthis industry, in the hydronics
and solar world of plumbing thatniche.
(18:12):
He's one of the top thoughtleaders.
He's got an amazing career, butit wasn't what I wanted.
And so I think just a reallyimportant responsibility that we
each have is to look inward andsay what is it that I really
want and be willing to march inthat direction.
(18:34):
And I think some business ownersI think some business owners
are like hot rod.
They really don't want to bethere.
A friend of mine, jim Mostynski, who also used to he'd be an.
He was an editor or publisherat Plumbing and Mechanical.
Once upon a time he said wecannibalize our team members.
Now this ties in with who hire.
We cannibalize them becausethere's nowhere to go.
(18:55):
They're working for a companywhere there's no opportunity.
We don't keep them busy all thetime, and so they end up
leaving that company.
They're uneducated as far asbeing business owners and then
they go start their own horriblebusiness and they maybe really
never would have or wanted to.
(19:15):
So I think there's some of thattoo.
If you really don't want to bein business for yourself,
there's some pretty coolcompanies out there that you
could work with Instead.
Let me stop, because I can seeyou're thinking stop, because I
can see you're thinking.
Speaker 1 (19:35):
Well, I think that a lot of people think that the old
saying, the grass is greener onthe other side, but they don't
really realize they don't thinkabout all of the stuff that a
business owner and rightfully so.
They're not supposed to thinkabout, all the things that a
business owner is to think about, starting out, because they
haven't been there and theyhaven't done it, and so there's
no handbook on all the thingsthat go on inside of a business.
(19:57):
It would be impossible to guessall the things that have cost
you a fortune and unexpectedsituations.
How are you?
There's no handbook on how tohandle that, unless you've got
the right emotional intelligence.
If you have the right, a lot oftimes it's patience, it's just
(20:18):
being able to, you know, resetwhen things go sideways.
That's not a skill everybody'sgot well.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
And so what happened with me and Hot Rod?
This is going way back, butwhen we realized this?
So, like, make sure the ownersare on the same page.
That's a good takeaway fromtoday.
And, if not, do something else.
Like, don't wait for your dador mom or kid or wife or anybody
to change.
Instead, maybe you could branchout on your own.
(20:50):
Oh, I know that I can just feelthe energy of that.
That is super scary.
However, it's okay, it will beokay.
So we decide that we are goingto sell the business and we
start asking some other localplumbing companies around, and
then our team members came to us.
We had three plumbers plus HotRod at this little company and
(21:12):
they came to us and they said wewant to buy it.
And I'm like, oh, that would begood.
Now, keep in mind that when Iwas going through these changes
with Frank and I'm raising myprices and I'm trying to figure,
I am showing my team members,our team members here's the math
, here's the balance sheet,here's how much we're in debt.
Here's what we're trying to do.
I didn't know how else to sellthem on these changes.
(21:34):
Like here you tell me like,what am I missing?
And so I just started showingthem the information.
And then we're talking beforethe call.
Then I read this book called theGreat Game of Business by Jack
Stack and I'm like, oh, this iscalled open book management.
This is actually a thing, it'sa movement.
And I then pursued Jack Stack,so I called him.
(21:59):
I did a little radio show onthe internet they didn't have
podcasts back then, it wascalled Internet Radio.
I invited him, I talked to himfor about an hour.
I ended up moving toSpringfield, missouri, which is
where they're located.
It was crazy and imposed myselfon him.
And about an hour I ended upmoving to Springfield, missouri,
which is where they're located.
It was crazy and imposed myselfon him and his team.
And I absolutely love Greatgame of business, jack Stack,
steve Baker Look these guys up.
(22:19):
They changed my life.
Now.
They gave me some construct forwhat I was doing.
So when our team members tookover, they had some financial
literacy training, just a littlebit, but it was enough that
they went into it with someeducation.
So all these things change youFrom there on out.
(22:40):
I thought I will do that everytime I have an opportunity.
It's what I always encourage myclients to do in my consulting
business.
It's what we do at Zoom Drainis let the team in on the game.
One page dashboard report bringthem to the party.
All of that is a result of myexperience with it, but I do
remember we're in the middle ofselling the company and it's
(23:02):
officially the guy's company.
Now we're still there.
We ended up moving to Missouriand buying a farm and going
middle-aged crazy and hot rodstarted another business.
I went to work with next star,so there's all this stuff
happening.
But while we were still workingtogether I remember one of the
guys like turned his body andhis elbow, hit a Grundfos pump
(23:23):
and knocked it on the ground andit broke and he just went.
That's $80.
And I thought that only happensif you're the owner.
That only happens if you're theowner that you like.
Oh, you have that moment and itwas a cool moment, just like
yeah, I know that sucks, right.
(23:43):
And then you start to hand overthat stewardship to the new
team.
It was pretty exciting, but youare well served to teach your
team what you're doing and toidentify in your team when
you're interviewing part of theoverall process.
Would you like to have your ownbusiness one day have you had a
(24:06):
business of your own?
What are your entrepreneurialambitions?
A business of your own, whatare your entrepreneurial
ambitions?
Because you for those of youwho've ever had someone on your
team start their own business Ihope you're really proud of that
.
Hope you're really proud ofthat.
That's a cool thing.
That's one of the great thingsyou get to do in this country.
In some countries you cannotstart your own business.
It's too onerous.
(24:26):
You won't do it unless you're arelative of the president or
whatever.
So if that happens, that's nota lose.
That could be a big win for youand them.
And the other thing is couldyou teach them how to grow their
own business and then be sointeresting and creative in the
development of your businessthat they don't want to leave?
(24:47):
And this is what you'll see?
Lance Bachman he and I did apodcast yesterday.
He gives out a lot of equityearly.
He has a lot of equity outthere.
Tom Howard is very generouswith equity, more aggressive
than I would be, and I'mfascinated in watching this like
, wow, that's super interesting.
(25:08):
That could be a.
Really.
That could be a reason whythey're so successful.
So, in any event, teachingpersonal financial literacy and
business literacy.
Hey, one guy who's really rockedmy world.
What was his name?
Who's the get out of debt guy?
Old guy, dave Ramsey.
He's been around, he's beenaround and I loved him and he's
(25:31):
done a lot of good for people.
However, there's a fresh voicein that space and I love him a
lot.
His name is Ramit Sethi,r-a-m-i-t.
R-a-m-i-t.
Even as a Netflix show.
His book is called I Can Teachyou to Be Rich.
It's really good for personalfinance he the man, really like
(25:52):
him.
And then for business finance.
Hey, have a budgeting session.
Take your team through it.
How, if you were to start abusiness of your own, this is
what you have to consider.
Here's what goes into ourselling prices.
All of this I experienced cory,and that's what I would teach.
As I learned it.
I thought someone else may beinterested, and then I'd see
(26:13):
their experience.
I had this lab going with thepeople I was working with and
learning from and, like you, I'dtravel the world to see a cool
company.
I'd just go.
Can I come to your shop?
Can we get on the phone?
I would just go to figure itout.
Speaker 1 (26:33):
And I've learned a lot over the years as a result
of people's generosity.
I will say that's one thing Ithink is one of the most
impressive things about thisindustry is most people that
have done well.
They don't mind showing youwhat they did Like they don't.
I think maybe part of that'sbecause the likeliness of you
going out and duplicating it'sprobably not very good.
But also, I think people arejust really generous in our
(26:58):
industry, more generous than anyother industry I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
Well, I think there's a bit of an evolution to it,
because I was noticing this InHVAC and I'm going to be a bit
stereotypical right here.
I believe there's a bit of asophistication hierarchy.
I think right now, really greatHVAC contractors are the best
(27:23):
marketers in the world in anyindustry.
Like these guys, they have itdialed down.
And then maybe plumbingcompanies and also these guys
might be the same companies, andthen maybe electricians are
catching up, and then we haverestoration, roofing, pest
(27:46):
control, drain cleaning.
Are you with me?
Like, I think there are certainindustries where it really that
level and it's a marketingmindset.
I believe that you have tocommunicate who you are.
I think that the farther downthis hierarchy you go, the more
likely a business owner is tosay well, everybody knows me,
(28:08):
it's word of mouth, that's all Ido, but then, as a result,
they're a small company.
Now again, if that's what youwant, great, but if you want to
grow, one of the skill sets youhave to learn is marketing how
to market your business and findpeople who know how to do that.
Now, as you move up thishierarchy, the more successful
(28:28):
you are generally, the morewilling you are to share because
you've had some help.
You never got there by yourself.
People have opened up theirshop as you move up, but in some
industries that are not quiteas sophisticated overall
stereotypically I'm not talkingabout individual companies, just
like the group itself there isa lot more reticence to share.
(28:52):
There's more of a I'm not goingto let anybody in and see,
based on really just not anunderstanding yet, but they'll
get there.
Now, the cool thing about that,corey, is I think that's where
the real opportunities are In mycareer.
I just wouldn't start an HVACcompany.
The field's too good, field'stoo good.
(29:14):
But give me power washing, giveme drain cleaning.
I love drinking.
That's one of the reasons Ilove it.
You just have to be better thanthe average bear, and the
average bear is not that great,not like some of the more
sophisticated trays.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes total sense.
There's so much opportunity.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
You just made me think of something, so I don't
know how you ran this with ZoomDrain.
You probably know Alan Ferguson, do you know Alan?
Speaker 2 (29:43):
Oh, I love Alan Ferguson.
Speaker 1 (29:45):
I love Alan too.
Speaker 2 (29:46):
I know him from Contractors 2000, 100 years ago,
and we have remained friends tothis day.
I love him from Contractors2000, 100 years ago yeah, and we
have remained friends to thisday.
I love him a lot.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Okay, so tell me your story.
It is which is often frownedupon, I think, by people that
don't understand how that works.
I'll see in plumbing groupswhere they just will bash the
daylights out of someone that'srunning a very cheaper drain
(30:25):
clean or whatever.
There's two things right Draincleaning and what's the other
one?
Yeah?
What another industry like no,you could do two separate things
.
When you go out to you, youcould do a drain cleaning or a
drain inspection.
No, I don't know what I'mtrying to think of, it doesn't
(30:46):
matter.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Yeah, I, I can't remember well I think carry on
with your story about the 59,because I do have some thoughts
on those yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
So the idea is that you get there and it's time.
You've got to count the timethat you're there and if you're
not counting the time and yousee your guys are spending two
and a half hours on a fifty ninedollar drain clean, naturally
it's not going to be productive,right?
So the idea is not that you'regoing to try to milk the
customer for every dime that youcan, but if you go there and
(31:17):
you find more problems, that youhave to charge for those.
So yeah.
So tell me your thoughts onthat.
Speaker 2 (31:24):
I tend to change my thoughts.
Okay, I'll tell you my currentthoughts.
Okay, fair enough.
Like I'm cause, I don't thinkwe have to.
There's something to be saidfor changing your mind.
When you have more informationor you're of a different opinion
, you get to get.
Your value should stay prettyconstant, but your tactics can
move around a little bit.
(31:45):
I am one that doesn't like thediscount loss leader for drain
cleaning.
Now, if you do drain cleaningbut you also do plumbing, you
could do free drain cleaning tosee what needs to be done.
We could clear the drain andthen your your understanding is
so many drains are going to needto be replaced or repaired that
(32:09):
this becomes your lead offering.
Correct, like, I'm followingright.
I understand the math behind it.
However, I don't lovediscounting the honorable work
that we do.
I don't like like a plasticsurgeon.
If I was going to have plasticsurgery, I've noticed that maybe
(32:29):
I should have a facelift.
I'll probably never get aroundto it, but just saying like, if
I were going to go to a plasticsurgeon and they were doing like
a two for one discount, Iwouldn't use that plastic
surgeon.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
You see where I'm going.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
And lawyers who do really aggressive like marketing
, where you don't pay anythingand we're going to get a class
action suit.
They don't have a greatreputation there.
Again, I just don't like thereflection on the industry of
giving away free work.
Sure, I like now what I do.
(33:08):
We do at zoom drain is we willcome and do a bid on the job and
you can say no, so we don'tcharge anything to come and look
at the job.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Right and we only give at that point our opinion
and they can take the opinionand do it, do whatever.
And then our responsibility isto train our team members well
enough to present appropriateoptions and prices and have the
customer say yes, now in draincleaning.
If you're doing that modelright, you're going to close 92,
(33:41):
93% of your jobs because no onereally wants to send a
professional drain cleanerpacking if they've got a drain
problem.
Like you're going to make asale today unless you do
something offensive, does that?
Speaker 1 (33:56):
make sense.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
So I think that in our industry I'm not saying this
will be the way we do itforever.
However, we support not doing a$29 drain thing and then
explaining it's only this muchand that you didn't cover that
and we just don't want to makeit that complicated and we want
to give an opinion.
(34:17):
You can go to a lawyer usuallyand get a little bit of expert
advice before the clock startsticking.
Same thing with a surgeon.
They might just say I'm notsure that surgery is right for
you, but let's see and have alittle meeting.
So I really like elevating theindustry in that way, but I'm
okay, like if everybody's doingit one way and if it gets
(34:37):
complicated I'm definitely goingto want to go in another
direction.
Here's another thing that Ifeel like a bit of a rebel about
this, but I've met more andmore people on my, on my game
plan.
Ishmael Valdez at New Bay isone of these guys.
There's a lot of work that goesinto maintenance agreements.
Now I liked plan service andthis is different.
(35:00):
Like at Zoom Drain, we couldput together a price for a
commercial property that needsthe grease traps done, refreshed
, cleaned out once a quarter,and here's the price to do it.
It's non-emergency work.
It's good for you, it's goodfor them, but those are real
prices.
Those are not discount,giveaway, loss leader prices.
Planned maintenance are goodsales, but a maintenance
(35:23):
agreement as a plumber's wife,what does it include?
Well, we'll wash out your waterheater once a year.
Speaker 1 (35:30):
Well, here's what I know, no plumber does this.
Speaker 2 (35:32):
I don't know anyone.
I don't know anyone in thetrades who rinses out their
water heater and as soon as youtake that little valve off the
bottom, it's never going to holdagain.
It's a problematic job and Ijust like it just sounds
complicated.
And now we have the revenue.
Well, you're supposed to holdit as deferred income.
And now you have to move it andservice Titan can help you do
(35:55):
that and it's fine and a lot ofpeople have been uber successful
with it.
But all of that makes me go.
What do we need them for?
Why don't we just text them andlet them know it's time to
clear your drains, it's time towash your windows.
I got the idea because I've gotthis guy.
I don't even know his name, buthe will like quarterly text me
(36:17):
and says hey, ellen, it's timeto come over and wash your
windows.
Is Thursday, OK.
And I go yes, I've never had mywindows washed.
I never signed anything, thanksfor being a VIP.
He says I'm a VIP, I didn'teven know, I could not find, I
could not nail this guy down ina crowd, I couldn't find him on
the Internet.
But I'm getting my windowscleaned all the time because
(36:40):
he's making the barrier toservice so small.
He's telling me it's time for Idon't have to track anybody
down, right?
And so now with Ishmael, he'sgot a thermostat, it's got your
name on it, you push on, it goesto your service time.
These are revolutionary thingsand they're breaking down the
barriers between when yourcustomer needs and wants you and
(37:02):
when you can appear Like maybewe could take more control of
that in ways that the customerwill really benefit.
So, anyway, I'm getting offtrack a little bit, but I
thought you'd like that, basedon the $59 drain conversation.
That's where my mind goes iswhat can we get out of the way
for?
Speaker 1 (37:17):
these guys?
Yeah Well, I think it'sconvenient.
So if it's convenient for me to, for me to do business with you
, then I'm probably going to dobusiness with you because it's
convenient, even if you're alittle bit more expensive, right
?
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Well, yeah, pop quiz.
Now I have tile.
Troy is my tile guy, so Ineeded a granite guy.
What did I do to find a graniteguy?
Speaker 1 (37:38):
I asked Troy, I didn't look.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
I didn't search, I just said do you have a granite
guy?
Oh, I have a great granite guy.
That was Jared, who just showedup today.
So referral marketing too.
Now how easy can we makereferral marketing?
How can we get the cell phonenumbers?
Get on text threads with yourreferral partners, get them into
service Titan, do some regularreminders.
So we're helping each other out.
Boy, there's a guy, a localcontractor I'm going to brag on
(38:06):
a court and Maddie Lundberg.
All of their business comesfrom Facebook groups.
The lost dog Facebook groups,the disaster relief, the
Christmas somebody needs a handFacebook group.
They're just involved in theircommunity in such a way really
low touch, a really low.
They're not selling, they'rejust being great neighbors and
(38:32):
their referral business isbananas as a result.
Isn't that sexy Love that.
Speaker 1 (38:39):
It is sexy.
There's actually a softwarethat I discovered on this actual
topic where I could, if I go,if I'm in a Facebook group and I
want to know if Ellen postsabout I have a plumbing problem,
that it will tell.
It will shoot me an email withall your information, the post,
(39:00):
what group it came from, and youcan even reply right into the
software.
So can you imagine like, basedon those people's business
they're probably hunting throughall these groups all the time,
trying to it could come right totheir.
It's amazing, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Can you share that?
Can you share that?
Speaker 1 (39:18):
I'll figure out the name of it.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I haven't used it Okay, yeah, and maybe post that
too.
Well, and there's anothersoftware we saw at the event the
other day PinParrot.
Did you see how that works?
Speaker 1 (39:28):
No, tell me.
Speaker 2 (39:29):
You know how you want your service tech.
Again, like, just make iteasier on the techs.
We ask them to things.
Okay, so it would be great ifour technicians dropped a pin
wherever they are and tookpictures.
And they're busy and we nagthem and I get it.
So Pin Parrot does that for you.
(39:49):
It like finds out where theyare, it pins them, it adds the
pictures that they're alreadyadding to service Titan.
I really don't know themechanics behind it, but what I
know is that they're taking itout of the tech's hands, out of
their responsibility, andthey're doing it for them.
What a lovely win right there.
We asked the techs to do so much.
(40:10):
This is where, like now theygot to sell a maintenance
agreement.
Now we have to get thepaperwork for it.
They have to explain acomplicated thing to the
customer, like what if we justdidn't do that?
What if we just assume nowthey're in our VIP club?
They're in our VIP club,they're on Marketing Pro or
whatever we're using toautomatically send information
(40:34):
back to that customer?
Second chance lead them allthose groovy automated things to
that customer.
Second chance lead them allthose groovy automated things,
apps.
Yesterday, when Lance and Iwere on our podcast.
It was really about theimportance of great people.
Corey, with awesome software,right the apps, the automation,
the AI, the stuff that willreally leverage what good people
(40:55):
can do.
This is where we are in ourdevelopment as an industry.
I see you shaking your head,you love that.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
So we work with WhoHire, we work with all of
Lance's companies, our system,and it's pretty unreal because
it solves the biggest problem inthe industry, which is finding
good people, and there's a wholelot of streamlining around the
processes and automations andit's really fascinating.
(41:25):
I just brought on I'm thepartnership director for the
company and we just brought onthe Elliott group.
Do you know, and you shouldprobably know Andy Elliott?
I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
Oh yeah, yeah, I know of him.
I haven't met him, but I knowhim when you think of that guy.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
you're like he's a sales trainer, right, he's a lot
of things, but sales is likehis thing, right.
And so I've been working reallyclosely with his team this week
and putting them through thisprocess and one of the guys just
sent me a message and said Itook the updated because there's
a little tweaking that goes onwith.
Some of the guys just sent me amessage and said I took the
updated because there's a littletweaking.
It goes on with some of thequestions and not a lot of
(42:04):
tweaking.
Actually Most of it's alreadybuilt out, but we tweaked his
and he retook it.
And for somebody that's acustomer to take from their own
standpoint, to take to gothrough the process and score an
89 on the whole thing out of100 is pretty compelling because
he knows how good he is insales and then to have this
(42:28):
program tell him how good he isin sales, it's pretty phenomenal
.
So it was really cool gettingthat message.
Speaker 2 (42:35):
So you're like, you're on the bleeding edge of
this human, the human humanity.
Plus technology leverages yourability to succeed.
Speaker 1 (42:47):
Well, yes, and so we've really taken we've taken
just gobs and got like 7,500people of real humans in the
field and then utilized ourtechnology to match that with
that performance data inside ofServiceTitan or whatever field
service software, and then,through AI, we can predict how
(43:12):
well your candidate's going todo, how well the applicant's
going to do in the whateverposition they're you're hiring
for, and so there's no possibleway that a human being would
ever be able to tell you theintricate information that we
can tell you.
I mean to be able to tell youif someone has grit or if they
(43:32):
have humility, or you know, overa 10 minute questionnaire is,
and that's just two out of the500 things.
It's ridiculous.
It's like a personality test onsteroids, like it's crazy.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
I'm really intrigued by what you're doing.
So, like, you're going to leteverybody know how to do a demo,
or, yeah for sure, yeah, okay,yeah for sure.
So, in addition to that, so so,like, in addition to getting a
demo of the who hire software,yeah, for the sake of our
conversation today, what is itthat you've learned about hiring
(44:10):
that most people don't know?
In addition to, like, wefigured it out and get the demo,
what's another like tip orsomething that, wow, it really
blew my mind when I figured thisout.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
All right, so I'll tell you, so I'll tell you.
I'm going to tell you twoseparate stories, to give you
two different examples.
So we did this whole thing withcleaning companies, right,
people that clean houses, andone of the traits that came up
to be the highest on the flightrisk.
(44:41):
So we can measure.
We measure performance andflight risk.
How long is somebody?
Speaker 2 (44:46):
going to stay.
How long do they stay?
How long do they stay?
Speaker 1 (44:50):
And are they going to perform once you hire them?
Data completely matched up withwas how sincere an applicant is
would determine how quicklythey're going to leave you.
Now that's really strange tothink about, because you would
never think the sincerity of ahuman being would determine how
(45:15):
quickly they're going to leaveyou.
But the data was there.
You couldn't argue with thedata.
Now here's a different story.
We have a guy in I think he's inTennessee, and he brought on
this guy who was like I don'tknow.
He was a Navy SEAL, he ran aChick-fil-A.
Like his resume was.
Nobody would argue with thisguy's resume, like there's no
(45:39):
question he's going to excel inthis position.
I think it was a servicemanager or something like that.
Well, a couple of months wentby.
The guy's not.
The numbers are not his numbersare not matching up with his
resume.
And so they hired him beforethey brought on WhoHire, and so
he gave all of his employees theWhoHire test and they were
(46:01):
sitting on an airplane headingto somewhere and the results
came back.
And so the Army guy or the Navyguy, whatever he was, said yeah
, let's look and see what itsays.
And this guy was like a 97%flight risk.
And so the owner was likewhat's up with this?
And he was like, oh, the AI iswrong.
(46:22):
30 days later he puts in hisnotice.
And here's the real kicker,because he gave all of the
employees the test.
There was a guy on his teamthat he said Corey, I would
never in a million years haveput this guy in this service
manager not in a million years,he said.
But his WhoHire score was thehighest of anybody that I've
(46:45):
ever seen, and our profit wentfrom 20% to 48% in 30 days and
hasn't dropped since Now.
Isn't that nuts?
Speaker 2 (46:56):
That is so cool, so do you recommend that you I'm
assuming, yes, that you wouldrecommend your existing team
members take this to see ifmaybe they're in the right seat
on the bus.
Yeah, or there may be some asyet unidentified leaders or
superstars you might have onyour team already.
Speaker 1 (47:15):
Or unidentified flight risks.
Speaker 2 (47:17):
Or unidentified flight risks.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
Wow, your team already.
Or unidentified flight risks,or unidentified flight risks.
Think about how much damage atechnician does when he's got
one foot out the door he'slooking for another job.
He's half-assing his job everyday.
He's not giving you goodcustomer service.
He's certainly not chargingwhat he's supposed to be
charging because he doesn't care.
How much money does that cost?
Well, I'll tell you.
(47:40):
Here's the numbers.
To replace that guy is abouthalf of his salary, so just
pretend it's $100,000 he'smaking.
It's going to cost you about$50,000 in training, customer
loss, all of those things toreplace that guy.
Now imagine you do that 10times a year.
That's a half a million dollars.
And here's the problem On thebalance sheet every year there's
(48:05):
no place for turnover.
So it's like one of thesenumbers that are it's a massive
hole that you don't see on thebalance sheet.
So it's really hard to track.
But we've tracked it, but weknow.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
This is so good.
Well, you've got me intrigued.
All right, I want to see thedemo too for companies I'm
working with, and I'll rattlesome interest at Zoom Drain too.
Now, this is really cool and Ilove Jonathan so much, I love
you, you.
I'm so glad we had a chance toconnect and actually I talked to
(48:45):
christy dear, whom I know youchristina, christina, christina
oops, I knew I was gonna be herewhom I adore, yes and I was
telling her I'm like we reallyneed to talk to your dad.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
I'm like I really need to talk to your dad.
I'm like I really need to talkto your dad because, like he and
she's like he's not your guy.
I could put you in front of theperson that you need to talk to
, but he's probably not going tobe your guy.
So I am going to talk with themat some point and maybe that
could be something you couldintroduce me to.
Okay.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
I'm good, I'll put you on my end here.
Well.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Well, I know we're getting short on time but I and
thank you for asking I enjoyedthis so much.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
If someone bails on you at the last minute, you call
me and I give you my text andmy phone number.
So you call me and I'll come on, I'll be your, I'll be your
go-to fill in person.
Speaker 1 (49:31):
You're the best.
I really want to have you anout on actually.
Speaker 2 (49:35):
Oh, we will.
We love it and we'll probablyargue It'll be a fantastic show.
We're like an old marriedcouple.
He's my work husband.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
I love it.
So, ellen, if somebody wants toreach out to you, where would
they go?
Speaker 2 (49:51):
L.
Let's use my Service Titanemail address.
It's the best E-R-O-H-R atservicetitancom.
Yes, stay in touch.
Let me know if you'reinterested in our brand
ambassador program.
And hey, I know cool peoplelike Corey.
If I can't help you out withsomething, I think I could
(50:12):
connect you.
So thanks, corey, let me knowwhen this comes out and I'll
help you spread the word.
Speaker 1 (50:18):
Thank you, dear, I appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (50:20):
You too too, love and say hi to Jonathan, thank you.
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