February 14, 2025 • 50 mins
Michael Venidis makes a triumphant return to the Successful Life Podcast, sharing his journey since the acquisition of RYNO Strategic Solutions and providing fresh insights on the revolutionary impact of artificial intelligence in business. Get ready to learn how AI tools like Claude, ChatGPT, and Perplexity are set to transform the way industries like home services process data and make decisions. We dive into the critical role of quality prompts and the balance between AI and traditional search engines in optimizing business processes for unparalleled efficiency.
Next, we explore the evolving landscape of AI and digital advertising, focusing on how these technologies are reshaping strategies, especially for sectors like HVAC. With kids growing up in a digital-first world, the trust and use of AI are changing rapidly, pushing search engines towards obsolescence. We discuss the potential for ads on platforms like ChatGPT and the need for businesses to craft compelling value propositions that resonate with consumers’ values. Discover how AI can help businesses establish a more robust online presence by accurately representing their services and meeting customer needs.
Finally, our conversation turns to the broader implications of AI on human roles and leadership. As AI takes over certain jobs, it simultaneously opens new avenues for opportunity, pushing us to retain the irreplaceable essence of human interaction. We share personal stories highlighting the importance of passion, empathy, and authenticity in this AI-driven world. Through leadership and digital marketing, I aim to inspire and motivate others to embrace AI innovations, drawing parallels to past technological shifts and underscoring the importance of trust in integrating AI into our lives. Join us for a thought-provoking discussion on the future of AI and its potential to change the business landscape.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Barrier,and I'm here with my man,
Michael Vanitas.
What's up, brother?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, man?
It's good to be back.
When's the last time we didthis?
It's been a few years.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I think it's been a couple of years, dude.
It's been a couple of years Iam super excited about just to
talk to you and then I get tocome visit you in a couple of
days, which I'm excited about aswell.
Get to come visit you in acouple of days, which I'm
excited about as well, bro.
So what's been going?
On Well really quick for thefolks that may not know who you
are.
You could just give us a quickrundown.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, right on.
Well, one thank you for havingme back, man, seriously,
genuinely.
And for those of you that arenot familiar with me, my name is
Mike Venitas.
I'm the CXO of Rhino StrategicSolutions.
It's a digital marketing agencythat exists solely for the home
services, started in 08.
And 13 years later, after webuilt this thing, I've just been
(00:53):
falling in love with leadershipand building people, and when
you build people, you meetpeople.
And here we are.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Here we are here we are.
So we were just chatting aboutyou, were giving me a rundown
about how your job has shifted alittle bit since Rhino was
acquired, and my question wasthat I think a lot of people
(01:26):
really just don't know how touse artificial intelligence, and
I think a lot of people youmentioned this previously it's
only as good as the prompt thatyou give it, but the
possibilities here are endless.
You can use this tool to learnabout things that you have no
(01:50):
idea about, or, in your casewell, you could talk about your
case.
In our case at WhoHire, we useit to basically crunch massive
amounts of real data and thenmatch that with performance data
psychographic traits and thenmatch it with performance data,
which gives us the ability tohave a blueprint for contractors
(02:13):
to hire by.
And so you were telling me.
Actually, I'll just let youdive in and talk about how you
guys have been using this.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I mean, we use it in so many different ways.
It would take me forever to gothrough them all.
I think it depends on whatyou're trying to accomplish,
right, because I'm a fan ofClaude when it comes to
creativity and the quality ofwording.
I go back to chat GBT if it'sanalytical, if I'm trying to
(02:46):
crunch data sets to your point,like and I'll even use
perplexity, which is anotherpopular one, right, for Q&A
formats.
That has a little bit more of,I think, advances in between the
realm of AI and search engines,right.
But I think we're about toenter a whole new world, similar
(03:07):
to how we would go to differentdirectories or websites for
different things, right, whohere goes to yelp to leave
negative reviews and complainabout their restaurant dining
experience?
Like, somehow and somehow,these brands, they develop this
(03:28):
presence and people utilize thema certain way, and I think what
we are about to do is enter theforefront of an era where
you've got AI for so manydifferent things.
Right, it's just who is goingto brand it correctly and win
the consumer.
We all say Google it.
Google won trust.
They won search engines.
And I think, similar, a lot ofpeople want to talk Is ChatGPT
(03:52):
going to kill Google and whilethat's very much a possibility,
I still think that OpenAI andChatGPT is branding themselves
more of like efficiency,convenience, simplicity.
It's whether or not theycontinue to push consumers in
that direction, to use it like asearch engine, that really is
going to determine the outcomeof that whole game.
(04:12):
But that's a whole left turnman.
That's a whole differentconversation.
We use it for a lot and we useit for a number of things, but
to your point, I think theprompt and how well you use it
really does determine theoutcome and the result you're
going to gain.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So when you go to look up something now, do you
first go to Google or do youfirst go to chat?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah.
So for me personally, obviouslyI'm a digital marketer Right.
So, knowing what I know, I'mstill very much using Google,
you know, in instances whereit's trust oriented, like the
quality of the result, in mywillingness to trust it, I'm
still very much stuck in thatmindset Whereas I shift and I
(04:58):
use chat, gpt and AI tools forcutting timeframes in half.
So I use it more of anefficiency tool.
How do I get things faster?
How do I cut corners, simplifythings, how do I teach it a
process, these types of things?
My mind doesn't look at chat GPTas hey, this is where I'm going
(05:22):
to go to get the best plumber,because AI is still so new.
So for me and I think someother consumers might agree,
like AI is a new world, we'restill learning to trust it.
It's convenient and we like thesimplicity and the outcome.
But at what point do you get aresult that is very much
(05:43):
incorrect.
It's inaccurate because ithappens.
I have analyzed the results ofchat GPT and it makes
suggestions all the time thatare inaccurate and they're bad
answers.
So still learning how to trustit.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, and that's true , and I think that there.
So I think two things here.
If you're looking for the top10 plumbers in phoenix, all
right, yeah, likely chat may beclose, but I don't know if it's
all the way there.
However, if we took all thedata, let's say, from a plumbing
(06:18):
company, we took all the dataout of service type, we took all
the data from internally, right, and we pulled all that into
chat.
And now this is a bit differentperspective and now you're
using that plumbing company asan example, just using that
internally for processes or foreven SOPs, whatever.
(06:39):
That it would be completelyaccurate if that was the case,
right, but going out looking forthe top 10 plumbers, maybe not
quite accurate yet, would youagree?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, for sure.
I think when you have internaldata sets, that you feed it and
you have it analyze it, I feel alot better about it.
Let me give you an example.
I've asked ChatGPT to literallyrun through a list of 1000
websites and collect simpleinformation for me, and then
when I go back and I check whatit's collecting, it's not
(07:14):
entirely accurate, and I'll evengive you the actual example.
Like I had it run through alist of websites and tell me how
many of them offered electric,electrical plumbing, plumbing
and air conditioning all three.
And then I wanted it to spitback a list, give me a chart and
a format that helped meunderstand, out of all of these
domains and all of thesecontractors, how many of them
(07:37):
did x, y and z, and it had allkinds of errors in it.
Interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Because you're, because, I guess, because you're
dependent.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
That's different.
I'm asking it to crawl sitesfor me and it's different than
when you give it a formalizeddata set that you know is
accurate and then you import itinto the tool.
See, I know that's what you andI were talking about a little
bit before we started going hereis, I think a lot of consumers
haven't fully mastered the artof how to even use it Like chat
GPT alone.
(08:08):
Are you using a free version?
Are you using a licensedversion, a team version, an
enterprise version?
Because all of these differentthings give it different
abilities.
When training and teaching theAI, I think, is when you start
to enter a different arena, Likea lot of your entry-level
consumers that are just becomingused to this are just asking it
simple questions and lookingfor answers.
(08:30):
But when you start to train avirtual assistant to be able to
think like you, to talk like you, to write like you, it's pretty
impressive.
I've got friends that areliterally building answering
services.
Yeah, and these voices haveemotional intelligence.
Man, Like I could say hey, I'mhaving a bad day and I will
(08:52):
literally listen to this AI thatis built on these systems
change its tone and its pitchjust to create an empathetic
feel.
Mind boggling.
I'm like man.
Here we are.
We're going to be here for it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, no, I'm, yeah, I'm with you.
It's interesting I wonder howmany people I got into a little
bit of that space, training thevoice models and answering.
And I think, at least from myperspective, our industry it's
(09:34):
very clear, our industry is adecade behind most industries
with technology, and so I thinkbetter helping the industry as a
whole better understand the wayto use this stuff and the
benefits of it, I think it wouldbe huge, and I don't know how
many people out there are reallyfocused on that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, I can't remember who I was talking to a
couple weeks ago, but I took astern approach that I believed
the end result was inevitable.
It's very much like if I wasdoing a presentation in a room
full of contractors depending onthe demographic, the age you
(10:20):
still see hands go up that areusing the phone books on the
doorstep.
I look at it that way.
I don't think you're ever goingto see the end of Google.
As long as we say Google, ithas some value, people go there
(10:44):
and as a marketer, I have tomake sure that my clientele
exists in every single potentialavenue in which somebody might
find a business.
So as long as the world saysthey're Googling it, it matters
to me.
But I do think that it will bethe next cassette tape.
Just how long is the question?
Because, think about it, corey,I don't have kids, but I got a
lot of friends that do.
And when we talk about that, Idon't have kids, but I got a lot
(11:04):
of friends that do.
And when we talk about that,how many of them are sitting in
front of screens, phones, ipadsand that's a conversation for
another day.
But the quicker you put thesedevices in their hands as they
grow up with it and theyinteract with it.
It's what they know, it's whatthey trust, it's what they use.
So, regardless of howinaccurate it might be, that's
(11:26):
the future.
If children grow up with it,that's how you develop this
trust and this relationship.
And next thing, we're all usingAI to do searches and Google
over time, becomes the nextphone book.
It's very much possible.
It all depends on how Googleplays the game right.
They've got Gemini and they aretrying to compete and push back
, and I think that this yearwill be an interesting year and
(11:48):
we'll start to see how some ofit's going to play out.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So let me ask you this If I'm forward thinking,
and HVAC company as an example,how do I get ahead of
potentially an ad play on chatGPT, which is not the case now,
to my knowledge.
There's no ads, which is reallynice, but it's got to be coming
(12:14):
, and so how, as a contractor,how do you start to get ahead of
that?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, that's a fantastic question, Goodness.
I think there's a couple ofthings that I'll say to this is
one I can't remember where.
I was reading it, ceo of OpenAI,I think, hired whatever
specialist guru over, and Ithink it might've been from Meta
.
Like we knew they were hiringsomebody that focused on ads, so
(12:44):
right.
So the signs indicate thatthey're going in that direction,
but we also know that CEO isnot a fan of ads.
Now I think that in thebeginning it was very much hey,
let's do this $20subscription-based model and we
can generate a business goingthrough this direction.
But advertising it's way morescalable than a set subscription
(13:05):
model.
You can spend more, you makemore, right?
There's, I think, a lot ofcontrolling factors in why I
think advertising is inevitableand I agree with that and why I
think advertising is inevitable,and I agree with that.
And I'd even read somewherethat through their subscription
model Now it's the company isn'tdoing very well, even though
it's well-known and it's beingutilized Open, open AI.
(13:29):
I was reading somewhere onlinelike that the financial model
through their subscriptionplatform is is not the best
route for them to continuesurviving, meaning a lot of
their consumers like to just usethe free version they're not
paying for it, but I will say,to get ahead of it.
(13:53):
The ads I think it's nodifferent.
The ads, I think are the samegame.
Right, like I think everysingle search model has always
been developed trust and, insome way or form, by
contributing value.
Right, google's valueproposition and trust was when
you don't have the answer, Iwill find you one.
So people kept coming backright and then over the years,
(14:18):
they added the ads on top todisrupt that Meaning.
As I scroll down and I look fortrust through the SEO and the
organic sections of the searchengine, I'm going to disrupt
that process by showing them anad that is compelling and what I
call that as a valueproposition.
What are the things thatcontribute value?
Right?
You either save money, you savetime.
(14:40):
Right, there's convenience,like different consumers value
different things in their buyingcycle.
So to me, there's no differenceIf you want to be ahead of the
game.
As open AI starts to implementadvertising into their platform,
I would imagine it's going tobe very similar in the sense
(15:01):
that the art of advertising isthat I need you to see that
before you come in for whateveryour original value was.
So if I'm coming into chat GPTfor efficiency hacks and to save
time, we know the advertisingin some way, shape or form has
to be on the top, whether it be.
I pray they don't do a bannerwhere I've got to X out.
(15:23):
They would just kill themselves, right?
There's so many different waysyou can do it, but ultimately
it's how do I get eyes in frontof this advertisement piece
before I actually get into theuser experience?
We know that's going to be thegame.
So for me, at the end of theday, if you're asking me what I
think is the way you prep forthat, it's what is the value
(15:47):
proposition, which is nodifferent than how it is today.
Like any single contractor thatwatches this webinar, I beg you,
if you're going to playadvertising in any way, shape or
form on digital, what is thevalue prop?
Is it same day service?
Can you guarantee that?
Is it a discount?
Is it a coupon?
And for the love of God, don'ttell me it's $20 off if I don't
(16:08):
know what the actual value ofthe service is.
$20 means nothing to me if Idon't realize that it's 25% of
the value.
How you word it is essential.
Sure, $20 off of $100 value isdifferent than just telling me
$20 off in a coupon ad.
These are the types of thingsthat we look for.
Are you actually going to bethere at 11pm.
(16:31):
When you say emergency service,what is the value proposition?
I believe that's the biggergame.
How do you compete with yourcompetition?
How it advertises?
I think is it won't bedifferent.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
All right, so let's move away from the advertising
portion.
So you've used it enough andyou've put enough information
about yourself in chat that if Igo into chat and I look up your
name, it's likely going to giveme a pretty good description of
you because you've used it,you've put your information in
it.
So I was thinking more alongthe lines of should a business
(17:10):
do that in preparation for thiscoming for people using chat for
search even though there's notpaid advertising?
Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
yeah.
So large language models don'tnecessarily work like that.
Like I can put in informationon my end, it doesn't mean it's
going to mirror or reflect onwhat on your end.
I could have 10 people in 10different states ask chat gpt
who who is Mike Finitas?
And the answer is going to varydramatically.
The one commonality it's usingright is an index.
(17:44):
You see a large language modellike OpenAI, cloud, all of these
tools, the answers they'repulling they're pulling from an
index, and an index is what Bingand Google and these tools use,
meaning these large languagemodels and AI.
They still use search enginesto feed it and make it smarter,
(18:05):
right?
So, in theory, me building awebsite about me putting that
out into the internet for searchengines to find.
That's how I'm going toinfluence commonality across all
of these different searchesthrough artificial intelligence.
It's not what I type into theAI.
It doesn't necessarily alwaysremember because you have so
(18:27):
many different platforms.
Like I said, you got paid, yougot free, and what it retains
and remembers varies based uponhow you have it set up.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah it does.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It does so, all right .
So you're saying that justbecause I've put in information
about myself or whatever, thatdoesn't necessarily mean it's
going to reflect for somebodyelse.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Correct.
However, if I was building awebsite, I gotta give you the
perfect example.
We do this podcast.
You put it on your websitewhere search engines can find it
and it's indexed.
There's very much a chance thatwhen I ask the artificial
(19:12):
intelligence the question, thenit may start to see enough
information about me over andover that it might start to have
an opinion right.
So the more popular, the morebrand equity, the more awareness
that is created out in theworldwide web, the more you're
going to start to see, I think,consistency in some of the
trends of what the largelanguage model says.
(19:35):
But the AI doesn't just look atan index.
It looks at a lot more thanthat, right, it might be looking
at how you've communicated withit personally, historically,
and then modify what it finds onthe index based upon previous
historical searches that justyou privately have engaged with,
(19:55):
searches that just youprivately have engaged with.
And all of that again stillvaries based upon whether or not
you're using a paid version andit's retaining everything that
you pour into it, because youonly have so many GPTs as well,
like you, can hit a limit and itonly remembers so much,
depending on certain settings.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, I didn't know that.
I didn't really think aboutthere being a limit, because I
don't, I guess I don't, I guessI've never really, I guess, when
you say limit, maybe, dive intothat Questions and
conversations.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You go back and forth with it.
The best example I can give youright is write a list of 100
questions and just start pastingeach question in After you go
back and forth with it enoughtimes, you'll start to see the
differences that occur, but nota limit, like you can't continue
(20:55):
on.
I think it gives you like anotification.
It'll never tell you that itcan't continue on.
I think it gives you like anotification.
It'll never tell you that itcan't continue.
But there's and I can'tremember what it says word for
word, but I've managed to get itto populate a trigger and a
notification about a limitation.
And I should also preface thiswith this, corey, because in
market intelligence, like I'mfeeding this thing Excel
(21:17):
spreadsheets oh yeah over 200000 data sets, like I'm truly
testing this thing's capability.
It got to a point where I fed itmass amounts of data but 10 pm
the night before it was stillpopulating the data the next
morning and I would ask it, howis that project coming along?
(21:39):
And it would respond and sayI'm still working on it.
Would you like me to give youwhat I've got now, or would you
like me to continue and thenrespond when I'm done?
And we got the system to tripup.
It was so big that eventuallyit glitched, broke and it never
finished the project.
So there's for sure limitationsin what it's capable of,
depending on the size of whatyou put into it.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Interesting.
Yeah, well, I could see thatwith 200,000 different whatever
you said, yeah, okay, but forthe average person they're not
going to get to the limittypically.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it depends how they use it right.
If it's the average person andyou're just doing simple Q and a
, I don't think they're reallygoing to have any concerns about
a limit of any sort.
But I think it's businessesthat are really feeding it mass
amounts of data and if they'reusing it to your point with very
complex and thoughtful promptsto get quality out of it like I
think there is a point in whichyou start to run into speed
(22:36):
bumps a little bit- have youfound that you've been able to
teach?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I'll tell you, at least for myself.
I've found that if I don't knowabout something and I want to
know let's say, for example, Iwanted to know the top 10
questions that an HVAC servicetechnician struggles with I
could find that out reallyquickly and then speak on it
(23:04):
pretty fluently because theanswers are pretty accurate,
right.
So my point is I often wonderand I know there's not enough
trust in the platform yet butcustomers eventually are going
to be able to answer their ownquestions without calling up
(23:26):
somebody, right?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, I think it's going to be perceived that way
for sure.
So basically, what happens isyou have chat GPT, which is what
really has the crowd right,that's what everybody's using,
and you'll notice the new littleglobe icon at the bottom, which
is search GPT.
It's just a form of chat GPTand they work differently.
(23:49):
I can't remember, Don't quoteme.
I think chat GPT looks at justthe index of Bing, whereas
search GPT, I think, expandsbeyond it.
I know that OpenAI has dealsgoing.
They had written deals withReddit.
They had written deals, I wantto say, with Google as well,
(24:09):
Apple.
They're having all theseconnections because really what
they want is access to the datasets, because the language model
pulls all of it from their datasets and then formulates a
response.
But the point that we get atright is in Search GPT.
You can see it.
It assesses seven to eightdifferent domains,
(24:30):
cross-references all of itschoices and then formats an
answer choices and then formatsand answer.
But let me ask you this, Coreycould I go on the internet right
now, build, write a blog,article that I know everything
and anything there is about chatGPT, get an inexperienced
person who sold right, Listen tothis podcast and then I'm wrong
(24:56):
.
It's possible right Like I havethe access to go to the
internet and write what I wantto write and be wrong.
Sure, you have to understand.
Like it's just looking at theinternet and it's assessing that
and if it wants to take a riskand believe I'm right now it's
preaching wrong information tothe general society.
(25:18):
It doesn't necessarilyunderstand what's right and
wrong unless there's enoughinformation out there for it to
generate its own assessmentright and back to how we started
, like it's only as good as theprompt you give it 100.
Yeah, you know it's scary stuff,man.
I'm having a lot of fun with it.
Yeah, I love it.
(25:40):
We have an innovation team overhere.
I know we're very intentionalabout being on the forefront of
this and making sure thecontractors are protected.
So we have different groupsthat are running all kinds of
proactive A-B tests on Gemini.
We have teams running proactivetests on OpenAI.
They track what they type in,they look at the results that
(26:02):
come back, they see theinconsistency and then they see
the consistency.
It all depends on what ourhypothesis is like, what we're
testing.
But that's the beauty ofinnovation.
Right, it's not so much thatthe data is right, it's almost
having a track record of when.
It's not so much that the datais right, it's almost having a
track record of when it's wrong,so that you have data that
supports some of the theoriesyou know that we believe in and
(26:23):
you have to understand like aiis a it's new world.
It is even what I say here.
I say it with confidence, butwe're still learning.
There are definitely somethings here that you you might
have me on the record right nowand next year when we get
together again.
I say I was wrong about that.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah Well, and it's happened so fast that likely you
are wrong, right, because it'sevolving to the point of really
it's the fastest evolving thingthat I think we've ever seen.
It's hard to even comprehendhow fast it's moving.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
It really is, man, it really is.
But what I've learned in myjourney is that it's better to
have a stance and be wrong thanto never make a decision and
have a stance.
I learned this many years ago13 years at Rhino, I think I was
maybe four or five in and Iwent to an event called SMX and
(27:24):
I think the biggest takeaway Iever got.
I quoted a man named David Meemwhen he made a prediction.
It was his prediction, but Ibelieved in it.
I was like I could see thishappening.
And what he talked about isGoogle's dream to stop sending
consumers to contractor websites.
And then I watched it allunfold.
(27:44):
Right, like Maps has becomemore and more popular from an
SEO perspective on Google.
Right, especially in our world.
Right, because we'relocation-based.
And then we watched LSA comeout and a whole new form of
advertising revenue coming in ontop of pay-per-click and every
single one of these things theyroll out.
(28:05):
Like even in pay-per-click,they have call extensions, which
is just click to call ratherthan ever sending you to the
landing page.
And what it made me realize isDavid is right, like Google is
evolving to the point where itreally only wants your website
to gather information.
It doesn't ever want to sendthe consumer to the website
because it creates the revenuestreams within Google Right.
(28:28):
When I called that then I calledmaps.
I called how big it was goingto get.
Rhino was very ahead of thecompetition in the importance of
reputation management,generating reviews, maps.
To me, this is no differentthan that right.
My stance is I believe this ishow these models work and
because I have that belief, I'mable to instruct the team to
(28:49):
begin testing.
And what I love about it isbecause we have an opinion.
We could fail fast, learn thatwe're wrong and the data
indicates that our assessmentsare incorrect, or it indicates
enough for us to say we've gotsomething here, this is our
strategy.
But that's the game.
That's how you got to develop astrategy.
(29:09):
When you've got people's life'swork in your hands, these are
their dreams, their businesses,and we're responsible for
growing them.
So you have to have those datasets to support any decision
you're going to make, becauseyou can't play around with that
stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah.
So what happens to I don't knowwhat percentage of people in
our industry that have barelyeven cracked open chat?
I would even be willing to betthere's a vast majority that's
never even looked at it, becausethey watch the news, maybe, and
(29:47):
they hear something bad andthey just say that's not for me,
that's not how I've always doneit.
It's like when the internetcame about, right, a lot of
people didn't want to get awebsite.
Well, now everybody has awebsite.
So what happens to those guysthat are not open-minded enough
(30:09):
to even crack the door on this?
Do they stay in business?
I don't know how they do.
I don't know how they stay inbusiness, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I think it's too soon to really answer that question
confidently.
I think that there's, for sure,a small percentage of people
that have still yet to beexposed, because they don't work
in or live in environments inwhich they had to really
leverage it it.
(30:40):
But these days I feel like Irarely ever meet somebody that
has not heard of this or has notexperimented with it.
So I think it'll be interesting, because I do believe that
there are three main ways tomake a business thrive right.
Two of them are really obviousit's drive sales and retain
customers.
But that third man isoptimizing your business right,
(31:03):
and sometimes that's justcutting cost of your tools and
your point.
And when it becomes a normalway of life, profit margins are
(31:31):
obviously impacted by the amountof time you spend on certain
standard operating procedures,and this is going to impact that
dramatically.
So I definitely think you'vegot a point there, man.
It'll be interesting to see howit all plays out.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I just feel like I don't know how much of
the the larger PE groups I don'tknow how much they did dove
into this.
My guess would be that they are, I would think, fully invested
in it.
I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And I just think that if you've been working with
this for as long as probably Ihave for sure, which has been
since it came out there's just alevel of knowledge that would
be really hard to catch up with.
It would be really hard forsomebody to start today and ever
(32:29):
catch up with the amount ofknowledge that I have, or that
you have, on using thistechnology.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
For sure.
Just having a general awarenessof it, I think, is essential.
I think a lot about buyerpsychology, something I'm
passionate about, and at leastin our industry and home
services.
If you don't know somebody, yougo to Google, you Google it,
and if this is the thing that ispotentially going to interrupt,
disrupt that entire buyingcycle, that process, you have to
(32:58):
have at least a generalawareness and understanding of
it.
You have to be mindful andthink like how would I use this?
Well, how could somebody elseuse this?
I always tell everybody at Rhinothe greatest marketers are the
ones that are most open-minded.
You can't be set in your waysjust because you use this tool.
The way that you use it doesn'tmean that's how everybody else
does, and that means who's gotchat GPT on their app, like,
(33:21):
I've got Apple intelligenceinstalled and set up so I could
use it through Siri.
I've got Apple intelligenceinstalled and set up so I could
use it through Siri.
And I think that these are allthings that you do have to get
to know.
So, to your point, if you'renot getting educated or
experimenting, or if you'reclosed-minded, I'm urging you to
reconsider, because it's comingand it's not going to stop,
(33:43):
whether you like it or not, youmight as well adapt.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, it's not going to stop whether you like it or
not, you might as well adapt.
Yeah, it's not a fad, like Ithink a lot of people thought at
the beginning.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
this is just a fly-by-night thing Not going
anywhere, it's for sure.
It's only going to get morewild.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
So even into what you mentionedearlier about the voice the
voice when you interact and havea conversation, just like you
and I are having a conversation,it would feel pretty daggone
normal.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's pretty close no-transcript, typically
(34:52):
contracted third party.
Like the reps that answer, theydon't have an emotional
connection to the job.
They're in the worst situationto be, I think, stoic,
supportive, generous, passionate, like they lack all of these
things.
So you're telling me thatthere's a way you can teach
artificial intelligence toportray passion right To empathy
(35:17):
, like these things that it'shard to motivate and inspire,
and people like that's a wholenother world that you could talk
about.
It's scary man, because thereare jobs out there.
I think authenticity, the valueof authenticity being genuine,
is going to 10x because you cantrain an AI to display it, but
(35:41):
there's still going to be anelement of the fact that it is
AI and you could feel that in aroom.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, for sure, yeah, for sure, and you're right.
I think a lot of people thinkthat AI is going to replace a
bunch of jobs, and it is goingto replace jobs.
So the way you get ahead ofthat is to learn about it and
not to be able to be somebodythat you think that others can
(36:08):
go to, that understand how thisworks.
And yeah, I think it's alsogoing to open up more
possibilities for people opposedto just replacing jobs.
I think it's going to openpossibilities up for those
people to maybe have better jobs.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I hope yeah, I agree, I do think it will replace jobs
, and my response to that wouldbe it's always about how you
peel back the next layer.
So for me, saying some, there'ssomebody out there that could
replace me before, right here inthis seat.
It's no, no different.
Whether it's AI, whether it'sanother person, the game is
(36:49):
still the same.
If you want to remain in thechair, you've got to continue to
grow, you've got to continue tobe uncomfortable, whether
you're competing with AI oranother human being.
To me, if you're ambitious andyou're determined, you will
understand and find a way how tocompete, no matter what.
(37:13):
It is right.
Okay, if AI can replace me.
What if I understood AI so goodthat I knew more than AI?
What if I taught and trained AIRather?
Okay, now I'm more valuable.
I'm actually teaching andbuilding and training these
things so I can create a bunchof it rather than just be
replaced by it.
It's just one example, right,but that's how the mind works.
How do we create an environmentin which we can contribute and
(37:34):
provide more value than the AIdoes?
And I think it's essential,right, because I can tell you
right now leading people isn'teasy.
Ai isn't going to give me ahard time and it's much less
work to manage that, but I dothink that there's some
positions, too, corey, like thatAI is going to really struggle
(37:56):
to replace, right.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, the service technician in the field, right,
the likeliness of us having arobot go out and fix people's
HVAC system or plumbing isprobably not going to happen for
a while.
It could happen, certainly, butI think empowering those
technicians with this tool makesthem invaluable, and I just
(38:22):
don't see that a lot.
I don't see that at all, really.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, I think if I was to simplify the entire
conversation and say whatdetermines when AI can fully
take over, you know, a humanrole, to me it still always just
comes down to trust.
It's all trust.
(38:47):
Like, even if I did have arobot that can come fix my air
conditioning unit, right,there's still an element of do I
trust that in my home?
Like what if something goeswrong?
Like who protects me from that?
What do I do?
Like it's trust and feeling andyou can't have a, you can teach
(39:08):
it to, to display it, butthere's.
It's the beauty of authenticity, man.
There's a feeling, an aura thatsits in a room.
You know when there's anotherheart in the room versus a
machine, and I do think that hasa little bit of an impact on
trust how comfortable and howquick you are to trust something
(39:30):
.
So I think, as we evolve as arace and start to implement AI
more and more into our society,I think that trust is going to
be the key factor thatdetermines what we are willing
to let go of and what is safe.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, I agree, yeah, I agree, yeah, I agree.
And there's something about thehuman connection that obviously
you're never going to be ableto get from a machine or a robot
.
And we human connection, wethrive on human connection.
Without it, you're prettylonely person.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
For sure yeah.
And you're just not going to beable to get that from a robot
Ever World for sure, man.
Yeah, we're here for it and I'ma big fan of change and
embracing it.
So we focus on the things wecan control and I tell people as
(40:34):
they end up in my office, like,at the end of the day, when
it's all said and done, the onlything we ever truly owned was
our choices.
It was the ability to have achoice when the time comes like
your possessions are all leftbehind, man.
So it'll be interesting to seethe choices that we make as we
go into this next wave ofintelligence, this next decade,
(40:59):
and see what stems from it.
I think human choice is goingto be more essential than ever.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree.
I guess I look at this kind oflike.
When there were cassette tapesand the CDs started to come out,
it was really hard to imagineanybody ever using this foreign
looking disc to play music.
(41:26):
And now we've even bypassedthat.
But so it's just evolution, andI think that's what we're.
We're just, that's what we'reworking with here.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
It's just a different evolution right man, I still
try to figure out where thecloud is.
I've been looking for the cloudfor a while.
Somebody's got all my stuffeverywhere I need it.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, and it's a mystery, right, that's just a
massive mystery.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
That was a concept I don't think any of us could wrap
our heads around.
I still can't Complaining aboutit.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah, I still can't wrap my head around it.
I have no idea where this stuffis, no clue.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
But it's only about how it impacts us.
That's, at the end of the day.
I think that's what peoplereally care about is how does
this impact me in my life, whichis still comes straight back to
value, and I think that'swhat's going to be the most
interesting play over the nextyou know few years is how are
(42:25):
you going to brand this productLike chat GPT, I think, has
generated a reputation formaking life easier.
See, that's different thantrust.
Yeah, agreed, so they got to.
We got to see what directionthey go and what do they want to
be known for?
They're still unfolding.
(42:46):
Do they want to be known for?
They're still unfolding.
Do they want to go after searchengines?
Do they want to play that gamewhere people are doing a Q&A
model and finding businesses, oris it simply just data analysis
and simplicity and efficiency?
There's so many differentdirections they could go, and
that's what I'm keeping my eyeon.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So just curious.
I know we're getting close totime where you obviously speak
at several different places whatdo you have coming up?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
So many things, man.
Well, on the topic of AI, I'msuper excited to be at the Rilla
Masters conference at the endof February in Las Vegas.
That will be my first timebreaking out a topic on Google
versus AI, so I look forward tothat because I'm still very much
(43:40):
getting educated and, like Isaid, having opinions regardless
of what is right, right andwrong, because it's still so
early to know.
But my plan is to come to thatevent with data sets that
support my theories and try toeducate and teach the
contractors, like what is goingon, and teach it in a way that's
comprehensible.
And that's my big thing.
(44:02):
Man, if you're ever going to sitin and sit in one of my
conferences or breakouts like ithas to be fun and it has to be
energy, I can't just talk at youfor 30 minutes.
It just kills me.
Well, you definitely bring theenergy for sure.
Thanks, man.
I appreciate that very much.
Yeah, life's too short not tohave fun and feel alive.
I feel that when we have energyand we're alive, we retain it.
(44:23):
There's an art to learning andI've said this on other places
podcasts, breakouts but it'slike people they say oh, that
person's dumb and it drives menuts when they say that, because
I'm like, if that person hasthe ability to learn something
else, because everybody'samazing at something, yeah, what
(44:45):
that tells me is they're notdumb.
They're just not interested inwhat you're teaching, and that
could be because of the way youtaught it, it could be the topic
that you're teaching.
But I think any good teacherleader understands that concept
and they find ways to makethings exciting.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, and it's not.
You're not going to helpeverybody in the crowd learn.
Like it's crazy to think thatyou're going to, that
everybody's going to understandthe message, Because they're not
.
Right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, well said, I think I'll be at a couple other
events too.
We got some stuff going on.
I think there's a Lenox Live isin there.
Storm Restoration, contractorSummit, april Hall.
That'll be a good one.
I love going to Texas, man,because they got the Capital One
Lounge.
(45:36):
What do you mean?
Well, my wife and I we alwayshave these wars about the
airport lounges.
We travel a lot and she's gotgot the american airlines card
so she's always taking me intothe admiral round and stuff and
I'm like you've never been intothe capital one lounge.
This is as good as it gets, butthey only have so many of them
and there's four, because I'm aventure x card guy and so I keep
(45:59):
trying to get her.
I'm like, hey, I gotta take youto this lounge in dallas.
Dallas airport has a capitaloneounge and I could spend the
day in there because it's somuch fun.
It's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Well, we're going to be at Rilla X as well, so I look
forward to seeing you there.
Where can people find you ifthey want to reach out?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Well, one.
I hope you do reach out.
For those of you that follow me, I appreciate it.
For those of you who don't,please do, but you're going to
find that when you do, I postevery single day, and what it is
?
It's inspirational,motivational, leadership
development content.
I love digital marketing, Ilove AI.
I love growing businesses.
These are the things that I do.
(46:41):
If this is about gettingconnected on social leadership,
developing people like my heart,it's truly what I exist to do.
I'm big on Facebook, so pleasefollow me there, connect with me
, send me an invite, but I'm onall social platforms.
Just type in Mike Vanitas.
There's only one, vanitas.
You'll find me real quick, butI'm very active on social media.
(47:03):
I use it like it's a tool andfor those of you trying to grow
your business, rhino is whereit's at.
I'm telling you we'repassionate about what we do and
there's nothing more rewardingthan taking someone's life to
the next level and helping themget those goals, especially
contracting.
It's the backbone of America,like I genuinely believe that
(47:23):
the country crumbles without thecontractors.
So it's very rewarding to be inthe seat for this agency with
this job, and I appreciate youhaving me man.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, dude, it was been great.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's always a pleasure, dude.
I love doing this stuffespecially with you Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I appreciate you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I'll see you soon.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
All right.
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Barrier,and I'm here with my man,
Michael Vanitas.
What's up, brother?
Speaker 2 (00:07):
What's up, man?
It's good to be back.
When's the last time we didthis?
It's been a few years.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
I think it's been a couple of years, dude.
It's been a couple of years Iam super excited about just to
talk to you and then I get tocome visit you in a couple of
days, which I'm excited about aswell.
Get to come visit you in acouple of days, which I'm
excited about as well, bro.
So what's been going?
On Well really quick for thefolks that may not know who you
are.
You could just give us a quickrundown.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Yeah, right on.
Well, one thank you for havingme back, man, seriously,
genuinely.
And for those of you that arenot familiar with me, my name is
Mike Venitas.
I'm the CXO of Rhino StrategicSolutions.
It's a digital marketing agencythat exists solely for the home
services, started in 08.
And 13 years later, after webuilt this thing, I've just been
(00:53):
falling in love with leadershipand building people, and when
you build people, you meetpeople.
And here we are.
Here we are.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Here we are here we are.
So we were just chatting aboutyou, were giving me a rundown
about how your job has shifted alittle bit since Rhino was
acquired, and my question wasthat I think a lot of people
(01:26):
really just don't know how touse artificial intelligence, and
I think a lot of people youmentioned this previously it's
only as good as the prompt thatyou give it, but the
possibilities here are endless.
You can use this tool to learnabout things that you have no
(01:50):
idea about, or, in your casewell, you could talk about your
case.
In our case at WhoHire, we useit to basically crunch massive
amounts of real data and thenmatch that with performance data
psychographic traits and thenmatch it with performance data,
which gives us the ability tohave a blueprint for contractors
(02:13):
to hire by.
And so you were telling me.
Actually, I'll just let youdive in and talk about how you
guys have been using this.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I mean, we use it in so many different ways.
It would take me forever to gothrough them all.
I think it depends on whatyou're trying to accomplish,
right, because I'm a fan ofClaude when it comes to
creativity and the quality ofwording.
I go back to chat GBT if it'sanalytical, if I'm trying to
(02:46):
crunch data sets to your point,like and I'll even use
perplexity, which is anotherpopular one, right, for Q&A
formats.
That has a little bit more of,I think, advances in between the
realm of AI and search engines,right.
But I think we're about toenter a whole new world, similar
(03:07):
to how we would go to differentdirectories or websites for
different things, right, whohere goes to yelp to leave
negative reviews and complainabout their restaurant dining
experience?
Like, somehow and somehow,these brands, they develop this
(03:28):
presence and people utilize thema certain way, and I think what
we are about to do is enter theforefront of an era where
you've got AI for so manydifferent things.
Right, it's just who is goingto brand it correctly and win
the consumer.
We all say Google it.
Google won trust.
They won search engines.
And I think, similar, a lot ofpeople want to talk Is ChatGPT
(03:52):
going to kill Google and whilethat's very much a possibility,
I still think that OpenAI andChatGPT is branding themselves
more of like efficiency,convenience, simplicity.
It's whether or not theycontinue to push consumers in
that direction, to use it like asearch engine, that really is
going to determine the outcomeof that whole game.
(04:12):
But that's a whole left turnman.
That's a whole differentconversation.
We use it for a lot and we useit for a number of things, but
to your point, I think theprompt and how well you use it
really does determine theoutcome and the result you're
going to gain.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So when you go to look up something now, do you
first go to Google or do youfirst go to chat?
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah.
So for me personally, obviouslyI'm a digital marketer Right.
So, knowing what I know, I'mstill very much using Google,
you know, in instances whereit's trust oriented, like the
quality of the result, in mywillingness to trust it, I'm
still very much stuck in thatmindset Whereas I shift and I
(04:58):
use chat, gpt and AI tools forcutting timeframes in half.
So I use it more of anefficiency tool.
How do I get things faster?
How do I cut corners, simplifythings, how do I teach it a
process, these types of things?
My mind doesn't look at chat GPTas hey, this is where I'm going
(05:22):
to go to get the best plumber,because AI is still so new.
So for me and I think someother consumers might agree,
like AI is a new world, we'restill learning to trust it.
It's convenient and we like thesimplicity and the outcome.
But at what point do you get aresult that is very much
(05:43):
incorrect.
It's inaccurate because ithappens.
I have analyzed the results ofchat GPT and it makes
suggestions all the time thatare inaccurate and they're bad
answers.
So still learning how to trustit.
Speaker 1 (05:55):
Yeah, and that's true , and I think that there.
So I think two things here.
If you're looking for the top10 plumbers in phoenix, all
right, yeah, likely chat may beclose, but I don't know if it's
all the way there.
However, if we took all thedata, let's say, from a plumbing
(06:18):
company, we took all the dataout of service type, we took all
the data from internally, right, and we pulled all that into
chat.
And now this is a bit differentperspective and now you're
using that plumbing company asan example, just using that
internally for processes or foreven SOPs, whatever.
(06:39):
That it would be completelyaccurate if that was the case,
right, but going out looking forthe top 10 plumbers, maybe not
quite accurate yet, would youagree?
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Yeah, for sure.
I think when you have internaldata sets, that you feed it and
you have it analyze it, I feel alot better about it.
Let me give you an example.
I've asked ChatGPT to literallyrun through a list of 1000
websites and collect simpleinformation for me, and then
when I go back and I check whatit's collecting, it's not
(07:14):
entirely accurate, and I'll evengive you the actual example.
Like I had it run through alist of websites and tell me how
many of them offered electric,electrical plumbing, plumbing
and air conditioning all three.
And then I wanted it to spitback a list, give me a chart and
a format that helped meunderstand, out of all of these
domains and all of thesecontractors, how many of them
(07:37):
did x, y and z, and it had allkinds of errors in it.
Interesting, interesting.
Speaker 1 (07:43):
Because you're, because, I guess, because you're
dependent.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
That's different.
I'm asking it to crawl sitesfor me and it's different than
when you give it a formalizeddata set that you know is
accurate and then you import itinto the tool.
See, I know that's what you andI were talking about a little
bit before we started going hereis, I think a lot of consumers
haven't fully mastered the artof how to even use it Like chat
GPT alone.
(08:08):
Are you using a free version?
Are you using a licensedversion, a team version, an
enterprise version?
Because all of these differentthings give it different
abilities.
When training and teaching theAI, I think, is when you start
to enter a different arena, Likea lot of your entry-level
consumers that are just becomingused to this are just asking it
simple questions and lookingfor answers.
(08:30):
But when you start to train avirtual assistant to be able to
think like you, to talk like you, to write like you, it's pretty
impressive.
I've got friends that areliterally building answering
services.
Yeah, and these voices haveemotional intelligence.
Man, Like I could say hey, I'mhaving a bad day and I will
(08:52):
literally listen to this AI thatis built on these systems
change its tone and its pitchjust to create an empathetic
feel.
Mind boggling.
I'm like man.
Here we are.
We're going to be here for it.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Yeah, no, I'm, yeah, I'm with you.
It's interesting I wonder howmany people I got into a little
bit of that space, training thevoice models and answering.
And I think, at least from myperspective, our industry it's
(09:34):
very clear, our industry is adecade behind most industries
with technology, and so I thinkbetter helping the industry as a
whole better understand the wayto use this stuff and the
benefits of it, I think it wouldbe huge, and I don't know how
many people out there are reallyfocused on that.
Speaker 2 (09:58):
Yeah, I can't remember who I was talking to a
couple weeks ago, but I took astern approach that I believed
the end result was inevitable.
It's very much like if I wasdoing a presentation in a room
full of contractors depending onthe demographic, the age you
(10:20):
still see hands go up that areusing the phone books on the
doorstep.
I look at it that way.
I don't think you're ever goingto see the end of Google.
As long as we say Google, ithas some value, people go there
(10:44):
and as a marketer, I have tomake sure that my clientele
exists in every single potentialavenue in which somebody might
find a business.
So as long as the world saysthey're Googling it, it matters
to me.
But I do think that it will bethe next cassette tape.
Just how long is the question?
Because, think about it, corey,I don't have kids, but I got a
lot of friends that do.
And when we talk about that, Idon't have kids, but I got a lot
(11:04):
of friends that do.
And when we talk about that,how many of them are sitting in
front of screens, phones, ipadsand that's a conversation for
another day.
But the quicker you put thesedevices in their hands as they
grow up with it and theyinteract with it.
It's what they know, it's whatthey trust, it's what they use.
So, regardless of howinaccurate it might be, that's
(11:26):
the future.
If children grow up with it,that's how you develop this
trust and this relationship.
And next thing, we're all usingAI to do searches and Google
over time, becomes the nextphone book.
It's very much possible.
It all depends on how Googleplays the game right.
They've got Gemini and they aretrying to compete and push back
, and I think that this yearwill be an interesting year and
(11:48):
we'll start to see how some ofit's going to play out.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
So let me ask you this If I'm forward thinking,
and HVAC company as an example,how do I get ahead of
potentially an ad play on chatGPT, which is not the case now,
to my knowledge.
There's no ads, which is reallynice, but it's got to be coming
(12:14):
, and so how, as a contractor,how do you start to get ahead of
that?
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Yeah, that's a fantastic question, Goodness.
I think there's a couple ofthings that I'll say to this is
one I can't remember where.
I was reading it, ceo of OpenAI,I think, hired whatever
specialist guru over, and Ithink it might've been from Meta
.
Like we knew they were hiringsomebody that focused on ads, so
(12:44):
right.
So the signs indicate thatthey're going in that direction,
but we also know that CEO isnot a fan of ads.
Now I think that in thebeginning it was very much hey,
let's do this $20subscription-based model and we
can generate a business goingthrough this direction.
But advertising it's way morescalable than a set subscription
(13:05):
model.
You can spend more, you makemore, right?
There's, I think, a lot ofcontrolling factors in why I
think advertising is inevitableand I agree with that and why I
think advertising is inevitable,and I agree with that.
And I'd even read somewherethat through their subscription
model Now it's the company isn'tdoing very well, even though
it's well-known and it's beingutilized Open, open AI.
(13:29):
I was reading somewhere onlinelike that the financial model
through their subscriptionplatform is is not the best
route for them to continuesurviving, meaning a lot of
their consumers like to just usethe free version they're not
paying for it, but I will say,to get ahead of it.
(13:53):
The ads I think it's nodifferent.
The ads, I think are the samegame.
Right, like I think everysingle search model has always
been developed trust and, insome way or form, by
contributing value.
Right, google's valueproposition and trust was when
you don't have the answer, Iwill find you one.
So people kept coming backright and then over the years,
(14:18):
they added the ads on top todisrupt that Meaning.
As I scroll down and I look fortrust through the SEO and the
organic sections of the searchengine, I'm going to disrupt
that process by showing them anad that is compelling and what I
call that as a valueproposition.
What are the things thatcontribute value?
Right?
You either save money, you savetime.
(14:40):
Right, there's convenience,like different consumers value
different things in their buyingcycle.
So to me, there's no differenceIf you want to be ahead of the
game.
As open AI starts to implementadvertising into their platform,
I would imagine it's going tobe very similar in the sense
(15:01):
that the art of advertising isthat I need you to see that
before you come in for whateveryour original value was.
So if I'm coming into chat GPTfor efficiency hacks and to save
time, we know the advertisingin some way, shape or form has
to be on the top, whether it be.
I pray they don't do a bannerwhere I've got to X out.
(15:23):
They would just kill themselves, right?
There's so many different waysyou can do it, but ultimately
it's how do I get eyes in frontof this advertisement piece
before I actually get into theuser experience?
We know that's going to be thegame.
So for me, at the end of theday, if you're asking me what I
think is the way you prep forthat, it's what is the value
(15:47):
proposition, which is nodifferent than how it is today.
Like any single contractor thatwatches this webinar, I beg you,
if you're going to playadvertising in any way, shape or
form on digital, what is thevalue prop?
Is it same day service?
Can you guarantee that?
Is it a discount?
Is it a coupon?
And for the love of God, don'ttell me it's $20 off if I don't
(16:08):
know what the actual value ofthe service is.
$20 means nothing to me if Idon't realize that it's 25% of
the value.
How you word it is essential.
Sure, $20 off of $100 value isdifferent than just telling me
$20 off in a coupon ad.
These are the types of thingsthat we look for.
Are you actually going to bethere at 11pm.
(16:31):
When you say emergency service,what is the value proposition?
I believe that's the biggergame.
How do you compete with yourcompetition?
How it advertises?
I think is it won't bedifferent.
Speaker 1 (16:44):
All right, so let's move away from the advertising
portion.
So you've used it enough andyou've put enough information
about yourself in chat that if Igo into chat and I look up your
name, it's likely going to giveme a pretty good description of
you because you've used it,you've put your information in
it.
So I was thinking more alongthe lines of should a business
(17:10):
do that in preparation for thiscoming for people using chat for
search even though there's notpaid advertising?
Is that possible?
Speaker 2 (17:21):
yeah.
So large language models don'tnecessarily work like that.
Like I can put in informationon my end, it doesn't mean it's
going to mirror or reflect onwhat on your end.
I could have 10 people in 10different states ask chat gpt
who who is Mike Finitas?
And the answer is going to varydramatically.
The one commonality it's usingright is an index.
(17:44):
You see a large language modellike OpenAI, cloud, all of these
tools, the answers they'repulling they're pulling from an
index, and an index is what Bingand Google and these tools use,
meaning these large languagemodels and AI.
They still use search enginesto feed it and make it smarter,
(18:05):
right?
So, in theory, me building awebsite about me putting that
out into the internet for searchengines to find.
That's how I'm going toinfluence commonality across all
of these different searchesthrough artificial intelligence.
It's not what I type into theAI.
It doesn't necessarily alwaysremember because you have so
(18:27):
many different platforms.
Like I said, you got paid, yougot free, and what it retains
and remembers varies based uponhow you have it set up.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, yeah it does.
Speaker 1 (18:40):
It does so, all right .
So you're saying that justbecause I've put in information
about myself or whatever, thatdoesn't necessarily mean it's
going to reflect for somebodyelse.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Correct.
However, if I was building awebsite, I gotta give you the
perfect example.
We do this podcast.
You put it on your websitewhere search engines can find it
and it's indexed.
There's very much a chance thatwhen I ask the artificial
(19:12):
intelligence the question, thenit may start to see enough
information about me over andover that it might start to have
an opinion right.
So the more popular, the morebrand equity, the more awareness
that is created out in theworldwide web, the more you're
going to start to see, I think,consistency in some of the
trends of what the largelanguage model says.
(19:35):
But the AI doesn't just look atan index.
It looks at a lot more thanthat, right, it might be looking
at how you've communicated withit personally, historically,
and then modify what it finds onthe index based upon previous
historical searches that justyou privately have engaged with,
(19:55):
searches that just youprivately have engaged with.
And all of that again stillvaries based upon whether or not
you're using a paid version andit's retaining everything that
you pour into it, because youonly have so many GPTs as well,
like you, can hit a limit and itonly remembers so much,
depending on certain settings.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yeah, I didn't know that.
I didn't really think aboutthere being a limit, because I
don't, I guess I don't, I guessI've never really, I guess, when
you say limit, maybe, dive intothat Questions and
conversations.
Speaker 2 (20:34):
You go back and forth with it.
The best example I can give youright is write a list of 100
questions and just start pastingeach question in After you go
back and forth with it enoughtimes, you'll start to see the
differences that occur, but nota limit, like you can't continue
(20:55):
on.
I think it gives you like anotification.
It'll never tell you that itcan't continue on.
I think it gives you like anotification.
It'll never tell you that itcan't continue.
But there's and I can'tremember what it says word for
word, but I've managed to get itto populate a trigger and a
notification about a limitation.
And I should also preface thiswith this, corey, because in
market intelligence, like I'mfeeding this thing Excel
(21:17):
spreadsheets oh yeah over 200000 data sets, like I'm truly
testing this thing's capability.
It got to a point where I fed itmass amounts of data but 10 pm
the night before it was stillpopulating the data the next
morning and I would ask it, howis that project coming along?
(21:39):
And it would respond and sayI'm still working on it.
Would you like me to give youwhat I've got now, or would you
like me to continue and thenrespond when I'm done?
And we got the system to tripup.
It was so big that eventuallyit glitched, broke and it never
finished the project.
So there's for sure limitationsin what it's capable of,
depending on the size of whatyou put into it.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Interesting.
Yeah, well, I could see thatwith 200,000 different whatever
you said, yeah, okay, but forthe average person they're not
going to get to the limittypically.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah, it depends how they use it right.
If it's the average person andyou're just doing simple Q and a
, I don't think they're reallygoing to have any concerns about
a limit of any sort.
But I think it's businessesthat are really feeding it mass
amounts of data and if they'reusing it to your point with very
complex and thoughtful promptsto get quality out of it like I
think there is a point in whichyou start to run into speed
(22:36):
bumps a little bit- have youfound that you've been able to
teach?
Speaker 1 (22:42):
I'll tell you, at least for myself.
I've found that if I don't knowabout something and I want to
know let's say, for example, Iwanted to know the top 10
questions that an HVAC servicetechnician struggles with I
could find that out reallyquickly and then speak on it
(23:04):
pretty fluently because theanswers are pretty accurate,
right.
So my point is I often wonderand I know there's not enough
trust in the platform yet butcustomers eventually are going
to be able to answer their ownquestions without calling up
(23:26):
somebody, right?
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yeah, I think it's going to be perceived that way
for sure.
So basically, what happens isyou have chat GPT, which is what
really has the crowd right,that's what everybody's using,
and you'll notice the new littleglobe icon at the bottom, which
is search GPT.
It's just a form of chat GPTand they work differently.
(23:49):
I can't remember, Don't quoteme.
I think chat GPT looks at justthe index of Bing, whereas
search GPT, I think, expandsbeyond it.
I know that OpenAI has dealsgoing.
They had written deals withReddit.
They had written deals, I wantto say, with Google as well,
(24:09):
Apple.
They're having all theseconnections because really what
they want is access to the datasets, because the language model
pulls all of it from their datasets and then formulates a
response.
But the point that we get atright is in Search GPT.
You can see it.
It assesses seven to eightdifferent domains,
(24:30):
cross-references all of itschoices and then formats an
answer choices and then formatsand answer.
But let me ask you this, Coreycould I go on the internet right
now, build, write a blog,article that I know everything
and anything there is about chatGPT, get an inexperienced
person who sold right, Listen tothis podcast and then I'm wrong
(24:56):
.
It's possible right Like I havethe access to go to the
internet and write what I wantto write and be wrong.
Sure, you have to understand.
Like it's just looking at theinternet and it's assessing that
and if it wants to take a riskand believe I'm right now it's
preaching wrong information tothe general society.
(25:18):
It doesn't necessarilyunderstand what's right and
wrong unless there's enoughinformation out there for it to
generate its own assessmentright and back to how we started
, like it's only as good as theprompt you give it 100.
Yeah, you know it's scary stuff,man.
I'm having a lot of fun with it.
Yeah, I love it.
(25:40):
We have an innovation team overhere.
I know we're very intentionalabout being on the forefront of
this and making sure thecontractors are protected.
So we have different groupsthat are running all kinds of
proactive A-B tests on Gemini.
We have teams running proactivetests on OpenAI.
They track what they type in,they look at the results that
(26:02):
come back, they see theinconsistency and then they see
the consistency.
It all depends on what ourhypothesis is like, what we're
testing.
But that's the beauty ofinnovation.
Right, it's not so much thatthe data is right, it's almost
having a track record of when.
It's not so much that the datais right, it's almost having a
track record of when it's wrong,so that you have data that
supports some of the theoriesyou know that we believe in and
(26:23):
you have to understand like aiis a it's new world.
It is even what I say here.
I say it with confidence, butwe're still learning.
There are definitely somethings here that you you might
have me on the record right nowand next year when we get
together again.
I say I was wrong about that.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah Well, and it's happened so fast that likely you
are wrong, right, because it'sevolving to the point of really
it's the fastest evolving thingthat I think we've ever seen.
It's hard to even comprehendhow fast it's moving.
Speaker 2 (27:02):
It really is, man, it really is.
But what I've learned in myjourney is that it's better to
have a stance and be wrong thanto never make a decision and
have a stance.
I learned this many years ago13 years at Rhino, I think I was
maybe four or five in and Iwent to an event called SMX and
(27:24):
I think the biggest takeaway Iever got.
I quoted a man named David Meemwhen he made a prediction.
It was his prediction, but Ibelieved in it.
I was like I could see thishappening.
And what he talked about isGoogle's dream to stop sending
consumers to contractor websites.
And then I watched it allunfold.
(27:44):
Right, like Maps has becomemore and more popular from an
SEO perspective on Google.
Right, especially in our world.
Right, because we'relocation-based.
And then we watched LSA comeout and a whole new form of
advertising revenue coming in ontop of pay-per-click and every
single one of these things theyroll out.
(28:05):
Like even in pay-per-click,they have call extensions, which
is just click to call ratherthan ever sending you to the
landing page.
And what it made me realize isDavid is right, like Google is
evolving to the point where itreally only wants your website
to gather information.
It doesn't ever want to sendthe consumer to the website
because it creates the revenuestreams within Google Right.
(28:28):
When I called that then I calledmaps.
I called how big it was goingto get.
Rhino was very ahead of thecompetition in the importance of
reputation management,generating reviews, maps.
To me, this is no differentthan that right.
My stance is I believe this ishow these models work and
because I have that belief, I'mable to instruct the team to
(28:49):
begin testing.
And what I love about it isbecause we have an opinion.
We could fail fast, learn thatwe're wrong and the data
indicates that our assessmentsare incorrect, or it indicates
enough for us to say we've gotsomething here, this is our
strategy.
But that's the game.
That's how you got to develop astrategy.
(29:09):
When you've got people's life'swork in your hands, these are
their dreams, their businesses,and we're responsible for
growing them.
So you have to have those datasets to support any decision
you're going to make, becauseyou can't play around with that
stuff.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
Yeah.
So what happens to I don't knowwhat percentage of people in
our industry that have barelyeven cracked open chat?
I would even be willing to betthere's a vast majority that's
never even looked at it, becausethey watch the news, maybe, and
(29:47):
they hear something bad andthey just say that's not for me,
that's not how I've always doneit.
It's like when the internetcame about, right, a lot of
people didn't want to get awebsite.
Well, now everybody has awebsite.
So what happens to those guysthat are not open-minded enough
(30:09):
to even crack the door on this?
Do they stay in business?
I don't know how they do.
I don't know how they stay inbusiness, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I think it's too soon to really answer that question
confidently.
I think that there's, for sure,a small percentage of people
that have still yet to beexposed, because they don't work
in or live in environments inwhich they had to really
leverage it it.
(30:40):
But these days I feel like Irarely ever meet somebody that
has not heard of this or has notexperimented with it.
So I think it'll be interesting, because I do believe that
there are three main ways tomake a business thrive right.
Two of them are really obviousit's drive sales and retain
customers.
But that third man isoptimizing your business right,
(31:03):
and sometimes that's justcutting cost of your tools and
your point.
And when it becomes a normalway of life, profit margins are
(31:31):
obviously impacted by the amountof time you spend on certain
standard operating procedures,and this is going to impact that
dramatically.
So I definitely think you'vegot a point there, man.
It'll be interesting to see howit all plays out.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, I just feel like I don't know how much of
the the larger PE groups I don'tknow how much they did dove
into this.
My guess would be that they are, I would think, fully invested
in it.
I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (31:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And I just think that if you've been working with
this for as long as probably Ihave for sure, which has been
since it came out there's just alevel of knowledge that would
be really hard to catch up with.
It would be really hard forsomebody to start today and ever
(32:29):
catch up with the amount ofknowledge that I have, or that
you have, on using thistechnology.
Speaker 2 (32:34):
For sure.
Just having a general awarenessof it, I think, is essential.
I think a lot about buyerpsychology, something I'm
passionate about, and at leastin our industry and home
services.
If you don't know somebody, yougo to Google, you Google it,
and if this is the thing that ispotentially going to interrupt,
disrupt that entire buyingcycle, that process, you have to
(32:58):
have at least a generalawareness and understanding of
it.
You have to be mindful andthink like how would I use this?
Well, how could somebody elseuse this?
I always tell everybody at Rhinothe greatest marketers are the
ones that are most open-minded.
You can't be set in your waysjust because you use this tool.
The way that you use it doesn'tmean that's how everybody else
does, and that means who's gotchat GPT on their app, like,
(33:21):
I've got Apple intelligenceinstalled and set up so I could
use it through Siri.
I've got Apple intelligenceinstalled and set up so I could
use it through Siri.
And I think that these are allthings that you do have to get
to know.
So, to your point, if you'renot getting educated or
experimenting, or if you'reclosed-minded, I'm urging you to
reconsider, because it's comingand it's not going to stop,
(33:43):
whether you like it or not, youmight as well adapt.
Speaker 1 (33:47):
Yeah, it's not going to stop whether you like it or
not, you might as well adapt.
Yeah, it's not a fad, like Ithink a lot of people thought at
the beginning.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
this is just a fly-by-night thing Not going
anywhere, it's for sure.
It's only going to get morewild.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah.
So even into what you mentionedearlier about the voice the
voice when you interact and havea conversation, just like you
and I are having a conversation,it would feel pretty daggone
normal.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
It's pretty close no-transcript, typically
(34:52):
contracted third party.
Like the reps that answer, theydon't have an emotional
connection to the job.
They're in the worst situationto be, I think, stoic,
supportive, generous, passionate, like they lack all of these
things.
So you're telling me thatthere's a way you can teach
artificial intelligence toportray passion right To empathy
(35:17):
, like these things that it'shard to motivate and inspire,
and people like that's a wholenother world that you could talk
about.
It's scary man, because thereare jobs out there.
I think authenticity, the valueof authenticity being genuine,
is going to 10x because you cantrain an AI to display it, but
(35:41):
there's still going to be anelement of the fact that it is
AI and you could feel that in aroom.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Yeah, for sure, yeah, for sure, and you're right.
I think a lot of people thinkthat AI is going to replace a
bunch of jobs, and it is goingto replace jobs.
So the way you get ahead ofthat is to learn about it and
not to be able to be somebodythat you think that others can
(36:08):
go to, that understand how thisworks.
And yeah, I think it's alsogoing to open up more
possibilities for people opposedto just replacing jobs.
I think it's going to openpossibilities up for those
people to maybe have better jobs.
Speaker 2 (36:28):
I hope yeah, I agree, I do think it will replace jobs
, and my response to that wouldbe it's always about how you
peel back the next layer.
So for me, saying some, there'ssomebody out there that could
replace me before, right here inthis seat.
It's no, no different.
Whether it's AI, whether it'sanother person, the game is
(36:49):
still the same.
If you want to remain in thechair, you've got to continue to
grow, you've got to continue tobe uncomfortable, whether
you're competing with AI oranother human being.
To me, if you're ambitious andyou're determined, you will
understand and find a way how tocompete, no matter what.
(37:13):
It is right.
Okay, if AI can replace me.
What if I understood AI so goodthat I knew more than AI?
What if I taught and trained AIRather?
Okay, now I'm more valuable.
I'm actually teaching andbuilding and training these
things so I can create a bunchof it rather than just be
replaced by it.
It's just one example, right,but that's how the mind works.
How do we create an environmentin which we can contribute and
(37:34):
provide more value than the AIdoes?
And I think it's essential,right, because I can tell you
right now leading people isn'teasy.
Ai isn't going to give me ahard time and it's much less
work to manage that, but I dothink that there's some
positions, too, corey, like thatAI is going to really struggle
(37:56):
to replace, right.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Yeah, the service technician in the field, right,
the likeliness of us having arobot go out and fix people's
HVAC system or plumbing isprobably not going to happen for
a while.
It could happen, certainly, butI think empowering those
technicians with this tool makesthem invaluable, and I just
(38:22):
don't see that a lot.
I don't see that at all, really.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
Yeah, I think if I was to simplify the entire
conversation and say whatdetermines when AI can fully
take over, you know, a humanrole, to me it still always just
comes down to trust.
It's all trust.
(38:47):
Like, even if I did have arobot that can come fix my air
conditioning unit, right,there's still an element of do I
trust that in my home?
Like what if something goeswrong?
Like who protects me from that?
What do I do?
Like it's trust and feeling andyou can't have a, you can teach
(39:08):
it to, to display it, butthere's.
It's the beauty of authenticity, man.
There's a feeling, an aura thatsits in a room.
You know when there's anotherheart in the room versus a
machine, and I do think that hasa little bit of an impact on
trust how comfortable and howquick you are to trust something
(39:30):
.
So I think, as we evolve as arace and start to implement AI
more and more into our society,I think that trust is going to
be the key factor thatdetermines what we are willing
to let go of and what is safe.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, I agree, yeah, I agree, yeah, I agree.
And there's something about thehuman connection that obviously
you're never going to be ableto get from a machine or a robot
.
And we human connection, wethrive on human connection.
Without it, you're prettylonely person.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
For sure yeah.
And you're just not going to beable to get that from a robot
Ever World for sure, man.
Yeah, we're here for it and I'ma big fan of change and
embracing it.
So we focus on the things wecan control and I tell people as
(40:34):
they end up in my office, like,at the end of the day, when
it's all said and done, the onlything we ever truly owned was
our choices.
It was the ability to have achoice when the time comes like
your possessions are all leftbehind, man.
So it'll be interesting to seethe choices that we make as we
go into this next wave ofintelligence, this next decade,
(40:59):
and see what stems from it.
I think human choice is goingto be more essential than ever.
Speaker 1 (41:05):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree.
I guess I look at this kind oflike.
When there were cassette tapesand the CDs started to come out,
it was really hard to imagineanybody ever using this foreign
looking disc to play music.
(41:26):
And now we've even bypassedthat.
But so it's just evolution, andI think that's what we're.
We're just, that's what we'reworking with here.
Speaker 2 (41:35):
It's just a different evolution right man, I still
try to figure out where thecloud is.
I've been looking for the cloudfor a while.
Somebody's got all my stuffeverywhere I need it.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
Yeah, and it's a mystery, right, that's just a
massive mystery.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
That was a concept I don't think any of us could wrap
our heads around.
I still can't Complaining aboutit.
Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah, I still can't wrap my head around it.
I have no idea where this stuffis, no clue.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
But it's only about how it impacts us.
That's, at the end of the day.
I think that's what peoplereally care about is how does
this impact me in my life, whichis still comes straight back to
value, and I think that'swhat's going to be the most
interesting play over the nextyou know few years is how are
(42:25):
you going to brand this productLike chat GPT, I think, has
generated a reputation formaking life easier.
See, that's different thantrust.
Yeah, agreed, so they got to.
We got to see what directionthey go and what do they want to
be known for?
They're still unfolding.
(42:46):
Do they want to be known for?
They're still unfolding.
Do they want to go after searchengines?
Do they want to play that gamewhere people are doing a Q&A
model and finding businesses, oris it simply just data analysis
and simplicity and efficiency?
There's so many differentdirections they could go, and
that's what I'm keeping my eyeon.
Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, that makes sense.
So just curious.
I know we're getting close totime where you obviously speak
at several different places whatdo you have coming up?
Speaker 2 (43:16):
So many things, man.
Well, on the topic of AI, I'msuper excited to be at the Rilla
Masters conference at the endof February in Las Vegas.
That will be my first timebreaking out a topic on Google
versus AI, so I look forward tothat because I'm still very much
(43:40):
getting educated and, like Isaid, having opinions regardless
of what is right, right andwrong, because it's still so
early to know.
But my plan is to come to thatevent with data sets that
support my theories and try toeducate and teach the
contractors, like what is goingon, and teach it in a way that's
comprehensible.
And that's my big thing.
(44:02):
Man, if you're ever going to sitin and sit in one of my
conferences or breakouts like ithas to be fun and it has to be
energy, I can't just talk at youfor 30 minutes.
It just kills me.
Well, you definitely bring theenergy for sure.
Thanks, man.
I appreciate that very much.
Yeah, life's too short not tohave fun and feel alive.
I feel that when we have energyand we're alive, we retain it.
(44:23):
There's an art to learning andI've said this on other places
podcasts, breakouts but it'slike people they say oh, that
person's dumb and it drives menuts when they say that, because
I'm like, if that person hasthe ability to learn something
else, because everybody'samazing at something, yeah, what
(44:45):
that tells me is they're notdumb.
They're just not interested inwhat you're teaching, and that
could be because of the way youtaught it, it could be the topic
that you're teaching.
But I think any good teacherleader understands that concept
and they find ways to makethings exciting.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
Yeah, and it's not.
You're not going to helpeverybody in the crowd learn.
Like it's crazy to think thatyou're going to, that
everybody's going to understandthe message, Because they're not
.
Right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
Yeah, well said, I think I'll be at a couple other
events too.
We got some stuff going on.
I think there's a Lenox Live isin there.
Storm Restoration, contractorSummit, april Hall.
That'll be a good one.
I love going to Texas, man,because they got the Capital One
Lounge.
(45:36):
What do you mean?
Well, my wife and I we alwayshave these wars about the
airport lounges.
We travel a lot and she's gotgot the american airlines card
so she's always taking me intothe admiral round and stuff and
I'm like you've never been intothe capital one lounge.
This is as good as it gets, butthey only have so many of them
and there's four, because I'm aventure x card guy and so I keep
(45:59):
trying to get her.
I'm like, hey, I gotta take youto this lounge in dallas.
Dallas airport has a capitaloneounge and I could spend the
day in there because it's somuch fun.
It's hilarious.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Well, we're going to be at Rilla X as well, so I look
forward to seeing you there.
Where can people find you ifthey want to reach out?
Speaker 2 (46:20):
Well, one.
I hope you do reach out.
For those of you that follow me, I appreciate it.
For those of you who don't,please do, but you're going to
find that when you do, I postevery single day, and what it is
?
It's inspirational,motivational, leadership
development content.
I love digital marketing, Ilove AI.
I love growing businesses.
These are the things that I do.
(46:41):
If this is about gettingconnected on social leadership,
developing people like my heart,it's truly what I exist to do.
I'm big on Facebook, so pleasefollow me there, connect with me
, send me an invite, but I'm onall social platforms.
Just type in Mike Vanitas.
There's only one, vanitas.
You'll find me real quick, butI'm very active on social media.
(47:03):
I use it like it's a tool andfor those of you trying to grow
your business, rhino is whereit's at.
I'm telling you we'repassionate about what we do and
there's nothing more rewardingthan taking someone's life to
the next level and helping themget those goals, especially
contracting.
It's the backbone of America,like I genuinely believe that
(47:23):
the country crumbles without thecontractors.
So it's very rewarding to be inthe seat for this agency with
this job, and I appreciate youhaving me man.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, dude, it was been great.
Thank you so much.
I really appreciate you.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
It's always a pleasure, dude.
I love doing this stuffespecially with you Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (47:43):
I appreciate you, my friend.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I'll see you soon.
Speaker 1 (47:46):
All right.
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