James Piacentino | Preventing Addiction Through Genetic Testing - Successful Life Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Corey Berrier (00:01):
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Berrier,and I'm here with James
Piacentino.
There I have it.

James J Piacentino (00:16):
You said it way better than me.

I thought for sure I was going to be able to
pull that off, but I don't knowwhy.
I thought that because Iusually mess up most people's
last names for some reason.
And yeah, so, james, what's up?
Dude, nice to see you thanksfor doing this.

Appreciate it.
Pleasure to see you again tochat yeah, man for sure.

so I do.
Um, just to set the stage here,one of the reasons I wanted to
have you on is because you'reworking in a part of the
industry that affects a lot ofpeople in well, could affect a
lot of people in recovery, and Ithink what you're doing is

(00:56):
really powerful.
If we can save I shouldn't saysave we can prevent people from
getting hooked on opioids andall the things that people get
hooked on, I think that's areally good thing.
And so, if you don't mind,before we, before I dive into a

(01:17):
bunch of questions, do you justwant to tell us a little bit
about Thrive Genetics and whatyou guys are putting together
over there?

Yeah, sure, I can maybe just give you a
little bit of the origin story,because it creates a real nice
stream of conscious thought andI think it stems from a little
bit of where we all come from isasking questions about life,
right?
So I was 25 years deep in acareer in tech.

(01:48):
I helped build two startups andthey got sold.
I helped corporations build bigP&Ls and work for our CEO, a
publicly traded company, and oneof the things he always used to
throw out there was, like youreally have to take on
challenges that are beyond you,beyond who you are and your ego,

(02:11):
and it was a really criticalmoment to say, wow, we're well
beyond just being who we thinkwe are.
We're capable of things wedon't even know.
And I grew up in a family thathad my father was an alcoholic
and he had some pillprescription addictions from his
surgeries and it was like oneof those things where I grew up

(02:33):
in a very tumultuous householdand I don't know.
I didn't know what normal was.
He was a nice dad, he was agood dad, but he was not a good
husband.
Unfortunately, my mom andthere's just a lot of stress in
our house and when someone is anaddict or an alcoholic or
whatever it may be, of any form.

(02:53):
It puts such a pressure oneveryone in the family, it
shapes you.
So I was like pretty deep in mycareer and I'm like all right,
something kept telling me whydon't we ever figured out
addiction, like how to preventit?
Like why did the kids have togo through what I went through?
Now, I was never an alcoholicor I never had an issue, but my

(03:16):
father did and my grandfatherwas a gambling addict.
I came to find out.
So then I'm like well, what aremy kids?
So then I really startedweighing on me just sitting on
my shoulder.
What are my kids?
So that really started weighingon me, just sitting on my
shoulder, tapping me every oncein a while, going, hey, do you
ever figure out this thing aboutaddiction?
Yet Subconscious thought overtime and I got to a point where

(03:38):
I was climbing a mountain inMaine by myself and I was like,
why can't we figure this out?
Is it genetic?
Like everyone asks.
Well, you have genetics.
I was like, well, that's likethe hot thing to say.
So I started to research it andI found that, scientifically,
addiction comes from acombination of genetics and
behaviors.
It's not just genetics and it'snot just behaviors.
It's actually a combination ofthe two and each one of us are

(04:01):
unique in our blend.
So, generally speaking, it's50-50 genetic and behavior and
it was like one of those thingsthat's like well, this is really
interesting.
And I started to really diginto who did the research, and
there was like seven scientistsaround the country that I looked
into, interviewed and talked tothem and what I came to find

(04:22):
out was there's a lot of sciencesitting in research labs that's
just being used for scientificand research purposes.
It's never been brought out tothe world to help people.
So here I am, 25 years intotech, building, inventing
products, making people allkinds of money, and I was like
why can't I take this, put mytech hat on?

(04:44):
Can't I take this, put my techhat on and create that?
Well, here I am right.
So it's Thrive Genetics is thecompany.
So I'm backing into answeringyour question.
The company has a digital healthplatform that physicians use to
identify addiction risk in ahuman before they prescribe them
any type of medication forsurgery.

(05:04):
So, while we can satisfy a lotof things, this happens to be
the niche we're in today.
We'll expand later.
But let's just stick to wherewe are today.
A physician goes into a system,gives somebody a genetic test,
gives them a behavioral exam.
The data comes together whenour proprietary algorithm that
creates an addiction risk score.
So that's very simple.

(05:25):
Anybody gets their addictionrisk score.
They know where they fall.
That doctor then takes thatinformation with their blood
work, which is not relative.
It's just something thathappens in, say, cancer or
spinal surgery.
A lot of people went throughspinal surgery, took opioids and
got addicted.
This is exactly the patientprofile we're trying to identify
before someone goes into theseprocedures that they're at risk

(05:47):
or they're not.
And then the doctor changes theprescriptions to fit what is
best for that person so theydon't come out of it with a
problem or develop one right.
And if they don't have apredisposal, the doctor knows
how to best manage themedication.
So they come out of theprocedure healthy and ready for
the world, right.
But up to 25% of people getaddicted in these processes,

(06:09):
which is a lot of people andit's a multi over $100 billion
problem in society.
So Thrive Genetics has theplatform and the science that's
clinically proven.
My co-founder's done 10 years ofwork, upwards of $40 million of
grants to get the science right.
We're now we're taking it outto markets that are working with
hospital systems andpharmaceutical companies,
because a lot of their productsfit into the process of healing,

(06:32):
helping with the painmanagement process.
So, without boring you too muchwith the technical stuff, the
company was spun out of a Idon't know, I'm pretty old, I'm
51.
So it came out of 50 years ofpain and emotional lack of a
better word discomfort that Icould probably do something to

(06:54):
help here with my background.
Why wouldn't I?
So that's when I went out and Ifound my co-founder and we
created this.
So we're about three years incurrently raising money to
expand it into two really largehospital systems that want it.
But I need some funding to growa little bit more.
So that's the company, that'sthe background, but I think I

(07:17):
over-answered your question, butI wanted to at least put a
little color to it.

No, that was great.
That was great.
So I did a little bit ofresearch and some of it's dated,
but I was really shocked.
So I've got a thing here thatsays it's in 2018 that Americans
consume 99% of the globalhydrocodone.

(07:42):
The global hydrocodone supply99 percent.
That number is absolutelymind-boggling to me and I just
wonder why here?
Is that because we don't havethe regulations?
Is that because the and this isa side question how are you

(08:05):
going to?
I love what you're doing, butit makes me think.
Pharmaceutical companies make ashit ton of money on these
medications and they'reincentivized to make sure that
and or they wouldn't be selling.
I don't know.
It says 21 millionprescriptions a year back in

(08:30):
2023.
It's probably even higher thanthat now, and so it makes me
wonder if you're the brandyou've developed, it could be,
it could be a.
It could be counterproductiveto what they're trying to do.
Does that make you?
Have you thought about?

(08:51):
I'm sure you thought about that.

Yeah.
So there's a lot of anglesthere and I'm not sure the
numbers exactly, but I cananswer your question.
So there's two parts to yourtwo part answer.
Answer your question.
So there's two parts to yourquestion.
One part is just like the wayin which a capitalistic society
and every other society works.

(09:15):
So when you have social systemsor basically a profit and loss
center and a cost center, it'severything all in one.
So our neighbors in Canada,they have it right In Europe and
such those systems are reallytrying to contain costs.

(09:35):
Okay, so if you think about itand this actually went into our
market of how we developed themarket for how we're going to
approach customers, those socialsystems, all they're worried
about is just first saving rightand second healing.
Maybe not in that order.
I don't want to infer anynegativity on anything.

(09:56):
Maybe they're worried abouthealing first and saving second.
That's probably a better way,politically correct way to say
it.
But in capitalist society Ithink we've got all these
complexities in the healthcaresystem and those complexities
and all the insurancecomplexities that we see create,

(10:17):
like what you were sayingearlier, a profit and loss
opportunity for an entity orcapitalistic entity.
Opportunity for an entity orcapitalistic entity.
Now I will say a lot of thedoctors we work with are really
they're pulling everyone'spulled back because of the
crisis.
So now what you have to look atis what should we be doing to

(10:38):
also save costs to the hospitaland to the system and the
taxpayer and still run acapitalist society?
Pharmaceutical companies aren'tnecessarily evil, they're just,
they're a capitalist company.
That's what they are, right,yeah, of course, yeah.
So okay, if we want to maintainthat balance as a country and
we look at the both sides of theequation, what should we be
doing?
We should be creatingpersonalized medicine, Because

(11:01):
personalized medicine what itdoes is it allows us to save
some costs because we'refocusing on that person's needs
not over-prescribing, but notunder-prescribing.
And when we have personalizedmedicine, it should also
increase the quality of the care, and if somebody needs more,
they should get more.
So I think what if I'm bringingthe two parts together when I

(11:25):
just went through?
The way I see it is, if youcreate personalized medicine,
you're actually supporting bothsides of the equation the cost
savings and the revenuegeneration.
Now I'm giving you a businessanswer here.
That's not necessarily a humananswer.
The human answer is the qualityof care for personalized
medicine should and will go up.
So that's why what we'vecreated is a personalized

(11:49):
medicine approach to helpingpeople understand their
addiction risk so that when thedoctor or the physician goes in
to create this plan for thatpatient and I can give you maybe
a, I can actually give you anexample.
I don't want to talk too muchbut I can give you an example
like a patient's story literallytake you through a journey
where somebody really they wantto get better.

(12:10):
If you have throat cancer justreal simple, painful, highly
addictive drugs are neededbecause it's extraordinarily
painful.
The patient may not want them,but if you have three months to
do this and you don't want it tobe like, wow, the pain is so
bad it's going to go six months,no, because then mortality rate
goes up.
So the personalized approachallows the physician to say,

(12:32):
okay, this is about how muchmedication I should give you
based on your risk profile.
Let me create an alternative orpersonalized approach with
different products from pharma,because not all pharma is bad.
They have products that help us.
Is there non-opioid products?
There are glp1s, the what doyou call them, ozempics, and

(12:53):
they act numb the receptor.
So if you have an addictionprofile.
You may want tenoxy from agenetic perspective, but if you
take a glp1 it numbs thereceptor, so maybe you only need
two to stave off that pain.
So there's pharma being thegood guy actually coming in.
But would the doctor know,without our tests, if you will

(13:14):
or our process?
Would they know to go that way?
They won't.
So we could actually help thepharmaceutical companies bring
that product in to help people.
So now, instead of six monthsand a lot of pain, your
treatment is three months.
You've got the right medication.
It's personalized, so we'resaving costs for the hospital
system, we're increasing revenue, maybe for the I don't know for

(13:35):
the GLP-1.
And you're keeping that care ofhighest quality.
But it is, it's personalizedmedicine.
That's.
My answer to your question islike that's the better way.
That's the way we keep thecosts at bay, still driving a
capitalistic model, which we arein the United States, and still
creating a patient care modelthat is of the highest quality,

(13:59):
and I don't see that to be tohave a lot of downfall.
I think it's going to take timefor the big powers that be to
take this approach foreverything.
But let's do it one, one stepat a time, and that's where I
see our contribution to societyas being significant, because we
can help.
We can really help here, andI've got a lot of doctors and

(14:22):
physicians and leaders,hospitals and a lot of people
behind what we're doing.
So it's not just me coming upwith this in my head in my
office.
This has been very clearlyarticulated from leaders.
All right.

So walk me through, all right.
So I get admitted to thehospital and they have your
product.
Is this something?
So they do, I think I don'tknow if you just mentioned it,
but they do a mouth swab If youwant to send off your genetic 1,
2, 3, whatever it is in me,whatever it's called.
I think that's how they do it.

(14:59):
I've never actually taken thetest, but I've taken something
where I had to swab.
So you swab your mouth, yousend it off the test.
But I've taken something whereI had to swab.
So you swab your mouth, yousend it off.

but in the hospital.
Do they have a quicker way ofprocessing it than if I did it
from home?
Yeah, sorry, as my laptop plugcame out there.
So, yes, so this is an arranged.
It's very arranged.
So what they have is theplatform.
So I'll send you a picture.
Maybe you can even pop it up onyour screen.
It'll show the patient journey.

(15:31):
So the patient journey, if youuse oncology for an example,
let's say it's a three-monthprocedure.
The first after your doctorunfortunately tells you yes, you
have human papillomavirus, wehave to scrape the cancer out of
your throat, very painful.
There's three steps.
The first step is the physicianhas you come in to do blood
work and to go through this swab, like you said, genetic and

(15:56):
behavioral tests which will helpthem create the medication plan
to support your comfort in thisprogram.
So that's like step one.
And then step two we'll talkabout that.
And step three we'll talk aboutthat in a second, but I'll give
you the little picture and youcan fly right into this.
In the beginning, when you takethe swab test, when you're
sitting in the meeting, you getyour blood done from your doctor

(16:17):
, traditional blood work.
The nurse practitioner sitsdown with you and says okay, I'm
going to ask you a series of 20questions those are your
behavioral questions tounderstand your addiction risk.
She doesn't need to evenexplain that, it's just them
trying to better understand howto create a pain path for you
that's healthy for you.
So she asks the 25 questionsand their basic questions

(16:41):
lifestyle questions and thenthey also do the swab.
They ship it out.
This is the arrangement that wehave on the back end with a lab
that has a processing date fiveto seven days.
They have to get that back sothat lab comes back.
It goes into the back end APIof our system.
Our system then takes thatinformation the genetic
information.
It's already got the behavioraldata because she does it on a
laptop or an iPad and it goes tothe back end and it's waiting

(17:03):
over here.
When this comes in, it triggersthis to drop down.
It comes together and thealgorithm runs and gives the
provider a one-page addictionrisk score for the patient with
a genetic breakout and abehavioral breakout and it says
this is where your risks are andthis is how you compare to the
other 1.whatever million peopleare in this database for your

(17:25):
genetic and behavioral risk.
The patient doesn't necessarilyneed that information.
You can check a box if you wantit, but it's mostly for the
provider to help create thatmedication plan for the
patient's success and comfort.
So that's the mechanics of it.

(17:47):
So, yes, you were right,millions of other things.
In a hospital they use swabs.
It's a very basic thing.
Genetic tests are mostly usedin other ways.

(18:09):
I suppose they don't considerbehavioral and that's the gap in
the market.
You can take a genetic test.
It's not going to give you youraddiction risk, like ours is.
That's specific to what myco-founder has built.
But what's really the secretsauce is how she's taken the
behaviors and the genetics andbrought it together.
That's really what's unique,because doctors today what they

(18:32):
do is you walk in the room andthey're just visually looking at
you.
They don't know if you'rewalking in with a history of it.
You could say, oh, mygrandfather had this, my father
had that, my uncle had that.
That doesn't mean even if yourfamily is a line of addiction,
it does not mean that you haveit.
It does not mean that yourbehaviors could be a teetotaler,

(18:53):
because you just never reallytook to anything and your
behaviors dictate so much yourlifestyle where you live, that
it can actually be almost nulland void.
Live that it can actually bealmost null and void, even if
you have it in your long history, that it definitely, certainly
it doesn't help you if you do.
But the behavior thing is justso, so, so under appreciated and

(19:20):
it's everyone always looks oneway or the other, genetic or
behavioral, one or the other isuseless, let's be clear.
So that's how the processhappens in the office with the
doctor.
That makes sense.

So in those behaviors I do a lot of, I look
into the mind and I go back andthrough, even through recovery
and through doing the work thatI've done internally.
All those behaviors happen,usually between zero and seven.
When you talk about thebehavior profile and it's not

(19:56):
even necessarily lots of timesit is you're seeing somebody
drinking or you're seeing themfighting, or you're seeing you
don't get love as a child orwhatever it is.
There's a bunch of differentfactors that could contribute to
that behavior of addiction inthe future and I guess so is

(20:22):
there a way?
Are you finding the same thing,that usually those behaviors
are formed at a young age, andmaybe that's something you don't
know?
But like, I'll ask a differentquestion.
So you had not a great examplewith the fighting.
I think you said right.
You said that you're not agreat example of how to be a

(20:46):
good husband, or maybe even agood dad for that matter.
And so those things you saw asa young kid and lots of times
those things get exhibited in asan adult.
For me that I can't.
I haven't pinpointed it yetexactly what these things are,

(21:11):
and they could be very simple.
It could be something as simple, as your dad didn't tell you he
loved you and therefore youfelt rejected and abandoned and
like a piece of trash.
And you just since you've neverworked on yourself, then maybe
that's just how you feel fromnow on.
And so you start exhibitingthose traits in your adult life.

(21:32):
You see him screaming at hiswife.
You start screaming at yourwife.
You don't know why you'rescreaming at your wife, and
unless you do that deep work,then you may not ever figure
that out.
So how would you say, have youever seen things come up like
that for you, where maybe yousnapped and you weren't really
sure why you snapped?

(21:53):
You went, why the hell did Ijust say that?
Or why did I just do that?
And you go oh, and could youtrace it back?
Have you gone that?
Have you looked at those kindof things for yourself?

You know what?
It's very interesting that youmentioned that.
Corey, my wife and I we bothand I won't bring her into this,
but we both came from something.
She didn't have any issues inher family with addiction or
anything, but I did with mysituation I mentioned.

(22:26):
Neither one of us have had anyaddiction problem, but what we
both do share is exactly whatyou just said, which is there
were these things that happenedthat shaped us.
That shaped us and when youwork at it it becomes a positive

(22:48):
thing.
Where you do something better,you grow your soul to become
better.
But a lot of people and becausewe've done it together, it's
been great.
But when you're not on that sideof it and you're using it in
the wrong way, it goes like aspiraling this way, which then I

(23:09):
think, draw, it's like a magnet, drawing behavioral processes,
if you will, that create anaddictive situation.
So, for example, you use acouple of ones I weren't, I
wasn't necessarily familiar withas a kid, but I have my own bag
of bag of tricks to share.

(23:29):
One of the things I noticedwith our we're raising kids too
is that they don't.
Kids aren't going to respond toyou yelling and screaming at
them, right.
So like we never did that, Inever did that, I never did that
, but my parents did that and Iwas like well, my father?

(23:49):
I can tell you a very clearstory.
I think about it all the timeand I feel bad sometimes.
Saying this to my dad was agood guy to me, but he would
come home from the bar two inthe morning, two 12, two 15, two
30, whatever it was, and when Iheard him walking up the steps,
my parents, my radar would gooff.

(24:12):
It was like right.

Yeah.

And then I'd hear him walk down the hallway
and I'd be trying to sleep andI'm like I know what's coming,
sure enough.
15 seconds later, the pitch Alittle higher, three minutes,
they're screaming at each other.
And I know well, if he wasn'tout at the bar, my mother

(24:40):
wouldn't be, she was sleeping,she wouldn't be like arguing
with this guy.
And sure enough, what do I haveas an adult growing up?
Three o'clock every night thatalarm goes off.
I'm looking around.
Right, yeah, now I consider Ieat extraordinarily well.

(25:03):
I take care of myself.
I've not sat down with anytherapist or something, because
my life's really good.
I don't have any known things Ishouldn't be doing.
I have a nice family, greatwork, a lot of nice friends.

(25:25):
I live a modest life.
So why am I going to go there?
And really I could, and I dospiritual work, like tonight.
My wife and I are going to sitdown.
We have a lot of really coolNative American.
What do you call them like?
It's almost like a sweat lodgeconcept where you take all the

(25:47):
different herbs and you burnthem.
Sit around it.
We're not going to drink, we'renot going to smoke, we just put
a fire, we put it around us andwe just are grateful, say a
couple of thank yous.
We had a good day.
I'm going to thank whoever foryou for being able to do this
right.
And she goes through hercathartic moment, I go through
mine, we go to bed, we get uptomorrow and go to the gym.

(26:08):
Tomorrow I'll go to the gym.
But those moments, like when myfather did that or those things,
do not go away unless if youwork on them.
They do not stay down here.
When you're yelling at your kid, they come out.
So to me it was a really bigdeal to recognize that wasn't

(26:31):
right, and then I need to figureout a different method.
Do I catch myself?
Sometimes when I'm doing, itcomes out and steph will be my
wife.
She'll be like and I'm like ohyeah, I shouldn't be, like
that's the old way, that's notthe way, right, right.
So I think for sure to answeryour question and close the loop

(26:55):
on it, all these things comeout.
They leak out through the,through the cracks.
You have to be super cognizantof it, be extremely self-aware,
like working on self-awareness,and I can clearly tell by your
question.
You spent a lot of time on that.
I could just tell your bodylanguage, you don't have to say

(27:17):
a word, I can read it.
It's something that I can'tstress enough.
If someone asks me for help andpeople do sometimes ask me and
I'm like man, I'm like I dondon't know where to start for
you because, like you gotta like, really you gotta really like
put the brakes on, change gearsand go the complete opposite

(27:38):
direction and then baseline andthen start going forward.
Because, like you're so far inthe wrong place and I see it in
in society too, with egos.
I've been in the music businessfor 30 somethingsomething years
professionally Still am Well, alittle bit less than I used to
be.
I was just talking to somefamous guitarists today who I
still work with, and the egoproblems are such a— when you're

(28:05):
out of that world and you seeit, you go wow, now I know why
you're.
Oh yeah, it's very clear, and Ithink it all starts right there
.
You have to have thatself-actualized moment to be
able to just stop, and theneverything should start to clear
up.
As you work on it, have youspent time doing it seems like,

(28:30):
just by the way your energy is.
Have you gone through thatcathartic process in your life,
in yourself?
It seems like you have.

I have, and there's layers.
There's certainly layers, andso I'm going through a different
, a little bit deeper layer.
Now Currently there's, like Isaid, there's layers because
there's character defects thatcome out and you're like why do
I keep doing this same thingover and getting the same result
?
Well, it's the definition ofinsanity, as we all know.

(28:59):
But sometimes we don't know whywe do these things in the
morning until you reallyself-reflect and go oh yeah,
that's how could it be thatthing that when I was young
that's been 14 or it's been 35,40 years ago like it shouldn't

(29:21):
still be coming up would be themost logical answer.
But it's just not.
It's not really the, it's notreally the right answer.
The right answer is yeah, thosethings get imprinted in you at
a very young age and a lot oftimes people you said yeah, you
said I had a good dad and donethe audit right.

(29:43):
It's funny because I told I'vealways told the story that I had
a great childhood.
Well, the reason I visualizehaving a great childhood is
because that's what I wanted tovisualize.
I wanted to believe that I hada good childhood and the reality
is we lived in a niceneighborhood, we lived on the
golf course.
We were members of the countryclub.
That doesn't mean I had a nicechildhood, that just means there

(30:07):
was material things around, andso I equated a nice childhood
with living in a material place.
But that doesn't mean I was outthrowing football with my dad,
because I wasn't.
My dad is also a drinker and sowhen I go and reflect back on
those things, my dad traveled alot and so it wasn't there a

(30:31):
whole lot.
So when you think about, well,I would say, a normal childhood
I'm not sure what normal is, butmy normal was that my dad was
very rarely there.
My mom was a school teacher andwent to school at night when I
was younger and she was halfwaynot there.
And so if you look at all thesethings like, was it a good
childhood?
Arguably no, not really.

(30:52):
It wasn't like you're.
But in my mind that's what thatwas, the story I told.
And so you can't believeeverything you think, and so I'm
curious when you took this?
Obviously you've taken the test.
Yeah, the whole yeah, yeah, sodid any of your.

(31:15):
So how did you?
I'll say score.
That's the only way I know howto say it.
Like, were you, would you be acandidate for not prescribing as
many as much pain medicine?
I guess is the best way to askit.

Oh, the way I think the best way to ask it,
oh, the way I think the way tolook at it was the results of it
, my situation.
I didn't have a high propensity.
I will say that.
I will say that this is areally interesting topic you're

(31:58):
bringing up.
I'm going to break it down intothree parts and I'll do it fast
.
And everyone knows this type ofperson, or maybe you or your
family members are this type ofpeople, this type of person, or
maybe you or your family membersare these type of people.
Do you ever meet somebody thattook one drink and was like lit,

(32:18):
like, like wow, that personwent from like zero to either
the devil or higher spirit, likefor sure, some people don't
know something.
It's not the devil, it'sactually like a and you go, wow,
that was one drink.
And then some people who needlike can sit around and drink

(32:40):
like six cases of beer and likego jump on the tractor and do a
couple jumps and they're fine,okay, and then you've got
everyone in between.
My dad's's situation was I callhim, he was a slow burn.
So when we talk about geneticand behavioral the person who
takes one drink and they neverdid anything else in their life,

(33:02):
or one pill or one whatever, orone gambler.
One pull of the thing andthey're hooked right.
I think that's where you seethe genetic situation come up
loud.
My father was more of a slowburn.
He was the guy like every day,5 o'clock at the bar.
He loved it.
The roofers are rolling in at3.30.

(33:24):
The fishermen rolled in at 2,2.30.
By 4 o'clock when he rolled in,they were already pretty lit.
So he's going pretty strong.
By 5.30, all the when he rolledin they were already pretty lit
.
So he's going pretty strong.
By five 30, all the officeworkers come in and by six 30,
it's a raging party at the barwhen he's supposed to be home
for dinner.
So I'm there on the phone hey,dad, is Joe at the bar?

(33:44):
And I'm screaming back in theday.
Who Joe was Joe at the bar andI'm screaming and yeah, then he
comes rolling in at seveno'clock or something and then
he'd go back at 830.
When we go to bed he'd rollback to the bar.
He was a slow burn.
He was the type of guy whowould just went on for a lot of
years rolling the ball slowly.

(34:06):
So I think he had a low genetic.
If I had to do this test, heprobably was a high behavioral
low genetic because hislifestyle was not good, he
didn't have a lot ofresponsibilities for work, he
was out of work because he had adisability and he couldn't work
.
His back was legally a mess.
He was in a really bad accidentin a really bad accident and I

(34:31):
think when you look at people,whether you take just in general
, you'll notice the differenttypes of styles.
Like the guy started a charityof mine.
He was telling me his story.
I have this company calledUnchained Brands.
They sell T-shirts and we usedto give them money to charitable

(34:51):
groups in Los Angeles and Slashwas a part of it.
He helped us out A lot offamous rock stars and Johnny was
my partner in this, or still is.
Actually we just don't sellstuff anymore because I just
don't have time.
But he told me his story.
He said I took a drink.
I don't know if he wants me toshare this.
I don't think he would be upsetabout it.

(35:13):
He's in recovery, he's doinggreat.
But he took a drink and it wasjust like holy cow, this is like
a next level.
This is just unbelievable.
It was like almost he couldn'tsay no anymore.
He was toast.
So I think if he was tested hewould have been a higher genetic
right.
So I think that there'sdefinitely Woody, though.

All right.
So let me ask you this.

Sorry to interrupt you All right.

So when you say he had been a higher genetic, I
would almost wonder because allright?
So as you were talking there,I'm trying to see all right,
well, where was I at which oneof those areas was I in?
And maybe there could be afourth area.
It fits into that first area alittle bit, but for me it was

(36:03):
like I fit in.
Now I can have a conversationwith people that normally I feel
very, very uncomfortable havinga conversation with, people
that normally I feel very, veryuncomfortable having a
conversation.
So if I can drink and have moreconversations and feel normal,

(36:46):
I I wouldn't say unstoppable,but it made me feel just normal.
It just made me feel normal,yeah.
This is a me feel normal.

Yeah, this is a really interesting point.
I'm not going to interrupt you,I want you to keep going.
But you know who else was like.
That was Eddie Van Halen.
If you ever hear Eddie's storyhow his dad gave him a drink
when he was nine to knock thenerves off before he was going
to go play, and Eddie's entirelife, even as Eddie Van Halen as
famous as he was and successful, he still needed to knock the

(37:16):
edge off because he was nervousand it's like the dude was the
greatest thing ever, couldn'thave been a better guitarist in
the world.
Millions of people are like,yes, we're here for you, man.
And he was like, oh crap, andhe was nervous, right, and that
would cut the edge and he had todo it and keep going, but

(37:38):
that's.
I don't want to compare you toEddie, because maybe you've got
some superior talent there, myman, but I think that's a very
interesting point.

Keep going Well.
I just think that there's andreally this probably comes from
something again that'ssubconsciously buried, comes
from something again that'ssubconsciously buried.
And the only way that I've beenable to get past that is by
being in recovery and being,because when you first get, I
say I guess you don't knowbecause you're not in recovery,

(38:03):
but when people come in first,especially well.
I'll say, for me anyway it wasa nightmare because I realized
I've got to give up this thingthat's been my friend and been
my savior in situations where Icouldn't otherwise maybe have a
conversation or I couldn't talkto this girl or whatever it was.

(38:26):
It was this crutch.
And you know, going into ameeting of of recovery, you
don't have that and you get allthose same feelings over again.
And the only thing that got mepast that was I had to open my
mouth, as uncomfortable as itwas, as fearful as I was to open

(38:50):
my mouth in front of a bunch ofpeople that were just like me.
It started building a muscle,just like you would in a gym,
and eventually I got past thefear of talking to people and I
don't have that fear now.
But if I hadn't have gottensober, I'd probably have to rely

(39:13):
on that crutch from now onright, right.

yeah, I've had a lot of conversations with
people that said similar thingsand it is a muscle and it is
developed.
It's an emotional strength.
You've built a resilience thatyou should be proud of, and one
of the things I like to tellpeople and I'm going to say to
you too, because I haven't gonethrough the process that you've

(39:39):
experienced is I'm personallyproud of you.
I know that every hour, everyminute, is an achievement, and
the reason I can value that inyou is because when I watched my
father go through what he wentthrough, he couldn't even walk
through that door the door thatyou walked through that.

(40:02):
Then you went through theknuckle writhing hell of every
hour, every day, every week toget to the point where you're
comfortable enough to beemotionally here to then be able
to go out and stay sober andthen to come onto a podcast to
talk to a guy like me about whatyou've gone through.
There is a million micro stepsof success in your life that

(40:24):
you've gone through that Icouldn't even get my father to
walk past the door.
So I respect what you're sayingimmensely.
The door right.
So I respect what you're sayingimmensely and I want you to be
always taking a minute to beproud of yourself, because, holy
shit, dude, that's a remarkableachievement.

(40:45):
It's actually harder, probably,to do what you just did than
start apple like steve jobs did,I truly believe.
I know how hard it is to starta tech company because I'm
eating glass right now, but I'mtelling you I can see what my
family went through and how hardit was for people to cross over
into the next place of healing.
Every micro step you've takenis a million miles, so pretty

(41:10):
incredible.
Thank you For you to be able totell this story.

Something that you said a few minutes ago
really put things in perspective, because we all have hard weeks
.
You just said you're in thegrind right now, but something
you said a few minutes agoreally put my life in a
different light when you said tome that your dad got into a car

(41:35):
accident and was on disabilitylegally disabled because of this
accident.
I don't know if it was hisfault and it doesn't even matter
if it was his fault, but itjust made me think about dude,
I'm really grateful that youknow that I'm not in that
situation.
I'm really grateful for thetroubles that I perceive today

(41:59):
because, jesus Christ, I couldbe on disability for the rest of
my life, with a massive amountof back pain and there's
literally there's really not awhole lot of going up from there
, like if you're, you can't work, you're in a lot of pain,
you're legally on disability,like you're, you're capped at
what you're going to do.
And then I got to thinking howdoes the mindset work?

(42:24):
How, how would I even handlesomething like that?
I'm I'd like to think that Iwould be really positive, but I
just don't know if I would be.

Yeah, so what you're saying is really at
home, and he was on disabilityfrom an accident.
So he had two very severethings and this actually led to
his problems.
Not to get too far into my owntime, I think, sure, when he was
younger he was literally in a Ithink it's a coma.

(42:56):
He got hit when he was a kid.
He was in the back of a car andthe driver put it in neutral
and it rolled down a hill andgot traffic came in.
So one guy next to him died nodrinking at all, they were just
18 years old like in a bowlingalley or something, and the guy
just got out of the 1950,whatever car it was back in the
day wasn't in park and he rolledinto oncoming traffic and my

(43:19):
dad was in the back seat andsome other guy and the other guy
next to him died.
The guy next to him had ascratch.
My father was in a coma formonths.
What they didn't have back thenwas diagnostics to be able to
read concussion syndrome.
He had massive brain injuriesthat led to a lot of his poor
decision-making as wellthroughout his life.
You'd never know it by lookingat him, but he had his face

(43:40):
broken and his feet broken, allkinds of things.
Then, when he was older, whenhe went on disability, he
actually got hit in a parkinglot and he really got whacked.
He was in one of those companystate cars.
He was just backing out of hiscar after lunch having a
hamburger and somebody justwhacked him.
I don't know whether they weredrunk or what they were, but

(44:01):
they hit him hard enough wherehe couldn't.
He was a mess.
And that's when the painkillersstarted.
That's when we started to seeKlonopin and Percocet and he was
pretty good at not taking thema lot.
But he couldn't stop with thewine he loves, cheap Carlo Rossi
.
It was sitting right next tohim at the dinner table.
Didn't matter if he had 80Percocets, one Percocet didn't

(44:23):
matter, he'd take it and he'ddrink his wine.
Anyway, he was in a betterplace.
But you made an incrediblypowerful point, an incredibly
powerful point.
There's, the biggest word inhuman history that I feel is
completely undervalued is theword progress.
And as a human, if we cannotprogress, we die Inside, outside

(44:49):
, whatever.
And when he was in thatposition and you nailed it, how
do you get up every day when youknow you can't progress?
It's just self-defeating.
One time I saw him buy like anon.
It was on the TV.
I was like a marketing thing andhe's like he couldn't sell
anything because he had, likethe pension and he didn't want
to script his pension.
He's like he can't have acompany or a business even

(45:10):
though it was like a smile anddial type marketing thing and it
was on the tv and call 1-800for 150, we'll give you the call
script.
But he was like I don't know,maybe I should do that because
he just didn't have any purpose.
Oh, so you're really you'rehoming in on something about
being grateful and havinggratitude, which we all know we

(45:32):
have to do, which actually isstupidly simple, but yet why
most people don't sit around andthink about it, myself included
.
It's challenge to stop and go.
I really appreciate this.
Really.
How hard is that?
How often do I do it?
Not enough, yeah, but for himand his situation, yeah, he
didn't really have much to lookforward to.

(45:53):
And it came out like and youcouldn't exercise, like now we
go to the gym, we run, I playice hockey, I sweat at 51, I
don't think my father studieslast time he was probably 26.
They're like we're smarter andwe're taught a little bit better

(46:15):
.
But yeah, I think you're sayinga lot of the right things in
that perspective.
For sure, that was a bigproblem for him.
Progress is, I think is, theelixir to our health.
Without it, it's mentally andphysically.
It's a huge issue if we don'thave progress.

Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, I agree.
I listen to a lot of books, Ilisten to a lot of podcasts and
it's not.
I really don't, I don't listen.
I really don't listen toanything.
This sounds ridiculous, butlike I don't listen to anything
fun.
But like I don't listen toanything fun, like I listen to

(47:03):
things that make me thinkdifferently and conversations
around health and ways to levelmy health up and the fitness.
Or I don't listen to a ton ofrecovery stuff because I'm in so
many meetings and I work withother guys and so on and so
forth, so I'm pretty well versedthere.
But yeah, it's mind-boggling tome and you know how I just I
can't.
I'm not going to come home andlike turn my television on, like

(47:24):
I'm just not going to do it,like I'm just not going to do,
it's just not.
It's having zero interest.

Yeah, and it's different now too because,
like, think about it, back thenyou or even 20 years, 30 years,
well before 2008 you would sitdown in front of a tv because
that was your.
You could escape.
Now all you do is pick this upand now you've got like a
different.
You can go over here for awhile.
I'll come back.

(47:50):
That's good and bad, right.
So I think it's a muchdifferent playing field with
what you can and how you canescape.
But do you do like when youwatch things that are outside
your strike zone what would itbe, for example?

(48:10):
And like, because there'slearnings, but then there's also
enjoyment, right, which?
Or sometimes they intersect.
Sometimes you have to learnthings you don't want to learn,
like some people have toliterally sit down and go.
I need to learn ai, whicheveryone does.
It's my day job, so I'm likeI'm doing it every day.
But some people you need to golearn some things, and sometimes
it's like, all right, I want tojust go watch old ste old Steve

(48:31):
Irving videos and hear thatguitar sound and zone out a bit,
and I think there's a place forthat.

I do think there's a place for that, but I
also think and I talked aboutthis before is that it also can
be a dopamine trap, social media.
The reason social media worksis because it hits the same
receptors as alcohol or food.
Heaven forbid, you're doing allthree of them at the same time,

(48:58):
because that's where the likescome in and that's where the
people posting and you see whatother people's doing, and it's
all triggers your dopamine.
So if you get lost in that,that could be a real problem,
and so I try not to get lost onthat.
I look at social media as atool and I think you can.

(49:19):
Either social media can use youor you can use social media and
you're going to fall into oneof those buckets.
And I just choose to not fall inthat bucket.
But, to answer your question,what I like to listen to so one
of the guys that I've listenedto probably a hundred of his
podcasts is called.
His name is Stephen Bartlett,the diary of the CEO on.

(49:42):
I watch him on YouTube.
I'm sure he's got it on all thepodcast channels but he brings
on so many different people forhealth and fitness stuff and I
don't even necessarily agreewith all of them.
But I tell you, what I amgrateful that I've pushed myself

(50:03):
to do is if I have apreconceived.
I'm eating a carnivore dietright now.
I've been eating it for threeplus months and I'm having
unbelievable results.
So, he'll have somebody on andthey'll be talking about how
much fruits and vegetables youneed to eat.
So I don't turn.
I want to just turn it offbecause it doesn't align with my
current values.

(50:24):
But I listen anyway because Iwant to hear what they have to
say.
If you've got the Republicanside and the Democrat side, you
really need to hear both sides.
It doesn't matter what side youfall on, but if you keep an
open mind, I think it gives youthe ability to then form a
decision.

(50:45):
And I really like that abouthis podcast, because he'll bring
on carnivore people, so tospeak.
He'll bring on keto people,he'll bring on vegetarian people
, he'll bring on hormone peopleor peptide people or people that
hate peptides, and so it's likeright and it all depends on,

(51:05):
but at least you have all theinformation, because if you're
just listening to one side inone channel, you're not getting
all the information, you're justgetting what feeds your
dopamine center.

Yeah, and I'm surprised at how many people
don't think like that.
But many people don't, andthat's that, to me, is more
shocking than anything.
I'm with you, I'm following thesame script, but there are a
lot of people that don't.
When you realize that peoplelook like us and smell like us
and talk like us and they don't,you go, wow, how are you that

(51:37):
close minded?
You're really missing it.
Yeah.

Yeah, that's right.
Great example.
Look when COVID hit and I didayahuasca back in 2020, two
different times.
And so I'm no stranger topsychedelics I don't do
psychedelics now, but I did backthen and so when COVID happened

(52:04):
, I'm like how does what isgoing like?
This is very clear.
What's happening here?
Like it's so crystal clear tome what's happening.
How in the world are all thesepeople not understanding like
this is something bigger thanwhat they're telling you it is.
There's just so many thingshere that and so many reasons

(52:25):
why this is not what they say itis, and I don't know where you
fall on that spectrum.
I'm just telling you where I'mand guess what?
I was right because they provedit.
It was just mind-boggling to mehow so many people just took
the information from the newsand they went yeah, this is
right, this all makes sense, andI'm like what the hell's wrong

(52:47):
with you?
It's what I wanted to say.

Yeah, so when you were seeing through the
cracks there, when you werelike having that like moment of
like wow, was it more from likea perspective where you were
able to pull yourself out of it,or do you think it was like hey

(53:09):
, I'm a psychedelic, supports abroader view, and it's almost
like you're in a differentdimension.
We can go pretty deep here, butlike you're in a different
dimensional layer and you'reseeing it from back here as
opposed to like it's likedisassociated.
Yeah, were you seeing it fromlike the?
Was that the psychedelic thingor was it just like you just had

(53:30):
this like light or something?
I think I just had thisprofound experience with the
psychedelic thing, or was itjust like you just had this
light or something?

I think I just had this profound experience
with the psychedelics to justopen they call it your third eye
right, open me up to aconsciousness that I didn't
realize.
This necessarily, I didn'trealize that was probably what
it was tied to.
I didn't realize that wasprobably what it was tied to.
I just knew, like you know,like I'm not all senior, all

(53:57):
knowing, but I was just like,how is it that?
How is it that so many peopleare not going?
This is ridiculous.
You're going to, you're goingto ask me to wear a mask.
Everywhere I go, you'rebreathing in the same air.
Like, like what?
How much sense does that make?

(54:18):
Like, but so many people, andyou had people, just, and that's
that goes to the news and howthe news feeds this stuff, and
so I don't even know what youasked me, do I?

think it was because of psychedelics.
That what you're asking yeah, Ithink it's like perspective.
Was it something that cameafter you did that or is it was
something you just?
You just saw people, people.
Information comes to people.
I think this whole thing you'retalking about is the
dimensional layers of realityare a lot more apparent than we

(54:58):
obviously admit to, and I thinkthere's so many things now
you're seeing, also withmanipulation in the news, that
then I wouldn't even call itnews, because social media is
not really news.
It's it's truths, it's lies,it's everything right.
So what you believe is true isyour news.
Well, that doesn't mean it'strue.

(55:18):
We're back even before COVID andbefore and then before pre
smartphones, if you will, yougot your news from three
different networks and it waslike the TV, it was very linear.
Now, if you had to put closeyour eyes and say, how did I
consume news?
It was like the TV, it was verylinear.
Now, if you had to close youreyes and say, how did I consume
news?
It was very linear.
It was like three to fourthings.
You'd turn the channel this way.
Now your news feed is 180things.

(55:43):
Instagram's got 60.
Facebook's got 40.
Yeah, and then what's thereality is what you make up?
Right, that's right, but it'sactually not news anymore.

Right, well, it also, and here's, and you'll get
this, obviously, because thealgorithm, like the algorithm,
knows what aligns with you, andso it knows what to feed you, so
it reinforces your own beliefsabout this thing right right
good or bad right?

(56:17):
Good or bad.

Yeah, and I don't even think it's like this
evil thing, but it's just theway it works yeah, right and
well, yeah, and I think if youbring that back home to like,
okay, how does that impacteveryday actions?
I think what it does is itcreates addiction with devices,

(56:41):
because there's that parallelpath you just mentioned which is
dopamine receptors for smokingand cessation are similar to
these, which is similar tococaine, and one of the things
scientifically that has come outof our work there's four, I
think four, clusters ofaddiction genes.
It's not one gene, they'reclusters, there's patterns.

(57:03):
Cocaine and sugar don't havemuch difference.
Even though people say, oh,you're a coke addict or you're
addicted to sugar, it's actually, it's all in the same class,
right, and I don't want to getscientific because I don't have
the chops for it, but there's nobig differences, right?
So then you start to throw thephones in there and this is

(57:23):
where I think I don't know ifyou have kids and all that.
But it gets complicated when youintroduce children to these
things and we don't know whatthe impact is going to be.
So when I started this company,one of the things that came up
early on was like well, parents,so like, can you know, identify
addiction risk in humans isgreat.

(57:44):
All the soccer moms are goingto want it.
All the sports moms and dadsare going to want it.
The NHL, the NFL they're goingto want it.
I'm like, yeah, everyone wantsit, wants it, but who's what's
the right market for this thing?
And then, okay, I have to buildthe company where the market is
and then we can expand so likewe might be building it now to

(58:06):
help prevent addiction relatedthings after complications and
surgery, because that's reallywhere the highest.
There's a lot of costs there,so you can really attack that
from a business perspective, butthere's still a lot of
opportunity in kids, inpediatrics, that could use this
as a tool to help them, helpchildren.
Right Now, we're not even beentalking about that as a company,

(58:28):
but there's so much dependenceon devices and I think the next
thing that's coming and it isreally close behind Corey is
you're going to have an AIpersonal assistant.
Oh yeah.
So then you're walking aroundevery day, every day, and I
think Mark Zuckerberg is onto it.

(58:49):
He uses a little bit of glasses.
It's not what these are, butthe glasses you're going to.
It's going to see glasses.
It's not what these are, butthe glasses.
It's going to see everything.
It's going to hear.
Everything you hear.
It's going to hear everythingyou say and it's just going to
sit right there in your glassestelling you what you think you
should do, and it's going to bevery valuable.
It's going to be just like thetools that we use now that suck
us in.
They're valuable.

(59:10):
If they weren't valuable, itwouldn't suck us in.
Well, that's going to happennext, and now you're going to
have a personal assistant.
That's going to feel prettyreal and be pretty helpful, just
like chat GPT.
Why do I have to type on chatGPT?
Why can't I just think about itor say it out loud?
Well, what are you two yearsaway from that?
If you're?

lucky.

Yeah.
So that's going to be likewhere I think you start to see a
lot of these things shift.
But addictions and thoserelated addictions are not going
to go away until they gene edit, until they start to create a
genetic modification to tohumans, which is probably five

(59:55):
years away.
So you can start to see whatI'm doing.
Whenever I say I'm doinggenetics, we're 100 years behind
, because in five years, whenyou start doing gene editing,
I'm just creating data sets thatcould help gene editing, if
that's where the world goes, butwe're just scratching the
surface.

(01:00:15):
There's going to be so manypeople and problems to address
in those areas that we haven'teven gotten to yet.
And I worry about my kids,especially my youngest daughter.
I worry about her and that agegroup and the kids that are
being born, the ones that wereborn that are like four or five

(01:00:37):
now.
That's really scary.
It's really scary.
So we have a role and I have arole and I step out of my body
for a second and say that I knowI was put here to do this.
Whether it's financiallyrewarding, I don't know.
Whether it is prestigious, whocares but this is my thing.

(01:01:02):
I've had a really good run in acouple areas that have led me
to this and I'm like okay, I gotit, I'll take the ball.
I don't know how it's hard.
It's very hard, verycomplicated, but I'm not going
to say that it's not divine.
There's a divine power that'sdriving me to do this and I

(01:01:28):
think that we're going to beable to help a lot of people
outside of just this initial usecase.
It might take five years, fouryears, three years, two years,
who knows?
But I've got the sauce in thepot here and now I'm just going
to start giving it out.

Corey Berrier (01:01:47):
Well, I think you also have.
I think the most valuable thingthat you have is your
experience with your dad,because without that, none of
this would be happening and thepain that you went through
watching him and caring for him,and the fights with your mom
and all the things that builtthis idea for you or that really

(01:02:14):
helped you.
I think feel enough painthroughout that process to say I
need to do something about this.
And that was that thing on yourshoulder.

James J Piacentino (01:02:25):
Yeah, yeah, and it's not.
You know what it's interesting?
Because it's not.
I'm going to go a little toodeep with you today, my man, but
when you think about your life,let me ask you a question.
Okay, let's play around herefor a second.
Longevity Let me ask you aboutlongevity.
When I say longevity, it's abig thing.

(01:02:48):
People are putting money intoit.
It's a big thing.
There are investment managersmeeting on Montauk or the
Hamptons of Long Island thisweek, next week More money than
the earth can probably ever useSitting in meetings talking
about longevity.
If I ask you what's yourdefinition of longevity mean and

(01:03:15):
what value does it bring, whatwould you say?

Just curious.
Yeah, for me, longevity ismoving my body, going to the gym
, putting the right things in mybody and, most importantly, not
putting the wrong things in mybody.
For me, that's longevity.
Okay, I'm going to ask you aseries of body.

For me, that's longevity.
Okay, I'm going to ask you aseries of questions.
They're all going to be oneword, it's going to be the why,
okay.
So I'm going to ask you Okay,why is that important?

Because I believe that's the key to probably
living a longer life.
Okay, why would you wantprobably living a longer life?

Okay, why would you want to live a longer
life?

Well, I really like life.

See, it starts to get awkward and
uncomfortable when you keepgoing.
Why Okay?

Yeah, no, but you could go four more layers if
you want.

This is intentional, right?
So then you say, okay, why doyou want to live longer?
I don't know, everyone's gonnahave a different answer like I
want to be my kid longer, okay,okay.
But why do?
Why do you want to be your kidlonger?
Okay.
So let's say you live 125 yearsold and your kid is 80, and
then you have grandkids, even ifyou're physically capable and

(01:04:30):
mentally capable.
I think it's purpose.

I think it drills down to purpose and impact.
So if you think about 120, 80grandkids, that's all purposeful
stuff.
It gives you a purpose to liveto 120, to see your kids at 80
and to see the grandkids grow upand hopefully you can hopefully
make an impact on the world insome way or the other.

okay, so without belaboring it, because
you're on a podcast, so I don'twant to go too far, just before
just hanging at the campfire.
I would go for another 10-15minutes on this, but I'm gonna
cap it there and say when wethink about longevity, we always
think about our body, our flesh.

(01:05:21):
We don't think about our soul,right?
So the purpose of yourexistence on this planet, like,
how did you get here?
I don't want to put too muchfaith in the internet, but
people will say and you've readthis before and maybe it's even
in biblical passages maybe I'mnot sure your soul has chosen to

(01:05:43):
come here through this vessel,this vehicle that's written in
stone somewhere and if you go,okay, well, really the purpose
of this vessel is to mature thatsoul for whatever it's going to
be next.
It could be a soul, could turninto an ocean wave, it could be
a rainstorm, it could be aSedona mountain that lasts a

(01:06:03):
billion years or whatever.
Right that energy, whatever youare, you're living to grow that
energy and that energy'stransferred.
So when I hear about longevity,I laugh, because people always
talk about themselves and theirfitness and then they talk about
how they wanna live longer andI'm like do you really wanna be

(01:06:26):
180 years old?
Do you wanna live?
How much money you gonna make?
Where you getting your moneyfrom?
Who you gonna to live?
How much money are you going tomake?
Where are you getting yourmoney from?
Who are you going to be with?
Longevity is like this weird10-year game in everyone's mind
but no one's talking about that.
The reason for living is totake your soul, to develop that

(01:06:46):
soul, to hand that soul off towhatever's next for it to come
and create a better world.
Because that's what we say wewant to do create a better world
.
So when I think about longevity, I'm like okay, I'm going to
throw a couple names at you.
James Marshall Hendricks JimmyHendricks guy died at 27.
His music was soextraordinarily deep and

(01:07:08):
powerful and his lyrics anddifferent things that he spoke
about.
He talked about astral planingand all kinds of stuff.
And you go, this guy just diedin 2007.
His soul was done.
He was like, all right, I'mready to over here, right, the
guy's carcass died and he felland was done.
But that soul moved on.
Stevie Ray Vaughan is thegreatest recovery story in the
history of recovery of a famousperson.

(01:07:32):
I'm not going to say say inhistory of humans.
Stevie ray vaughn got soberbetween the years like 1988,
late 88 and 1990.
When he died he was on stagehighest level of performance in
the history of his life.
Guy was unfreaking, believable.
If you heard him playing hislast night you'd cry.
He gets in a.

(01:07:53):
Somebody else was supposed togo.
He wanted to go early becausehe wanted to call his girlfriend
or to-be-wife that was in NewZealand and the time zone
difference was so vast.
He was in Wisconsin.
He gets in a helicopter,crashes into the side of a
mountain because it was missedin August 27, 1990.
The man couldn't have lived abetter life.
He was sober, helping a shitton of people.
His music was transcendingsouls.

(01:08:15):
It was amazing and he diesReally.
Now go back to your longevityconversation.
What the hell does longevitymean?
It means nothing.
His soul had to transcend tosomething else.
His body went away.
Okay, so when you talk aboutlongevity and we talk about
longevity and longevity unlessif you're a complete capitalist

(01:08:37):
and you're like I don't want tocreate products that make people
live longer because I don'twant to make money, okay, that's
cool, like go ahead.
But longevity is not that.
Longevity is taking your souland continuing to grow it beyond
this carcass for something else.
So I'm going to live in myopinion to a degree or a point

(01:09:05):
where I can take this and put itover there.
That's going to make thisreason for this existence.
It goes well beyond just beinghere for a while and leaving my
father's life.
When he passed, he looked at meas he was dying and he said to
me this is it?
Huh.
That was his last words to me.

(01:09:27):
He goes this is it, huh?
And I was like holy shit.
We were in the hallway, it was,he was walking and my family
was in the end of the hospitaland he was like and we left and
I went back at four in themorning and he died to his last
breath.
But that was like the lastthing he said to me.

(01:09:47):
He's like this is it?
Huh?
I was like what the fuck?
Yeah, that's crazy.
Like like he.
He literally was likeself-actualizing, like oh, this
was a really short ride.
That's unreal.
I didn't really do anything.
That's who felt yeah, yeah.
And the way I look at it islike okay, you said it earlier,

(01:10:08):
or you said you did this companybecause of this guy, and I'm
like okay, so just like a bee,pollinates a flower and takes
the honey out and dies and youget a teaspoon of honey from the
entire life work of that bee.
That's what he did.
He was the bee.
He made some honey and he died,and that honey gets transferred
where else.
It was to me.
Now it's my job to take it andto help millions.

(01:10:31):
Right, my mother suffered atthe hands of him.
She impacted a lot of kids inher work when she was working a
lot of children, which I thinkwas a big difference.
She's made a tangibledifference, but I feel like she
suffered at the hands of him forthis, for me to do this, right?
So when I start to think aboutthe soul and the deeper

(01:10:54):
opportunity here, it's thatreally big opportunity.
That's beyond this, right?
Yeah, we feel better, lookbetter, feel good, but longevity
is in my game.
Longevity is the soul, it's notmy muscles, right?

Oh, I'm a supplement freak, but yeah, but
yeah, you're just such a greatperspective.
Yeah, really, I hadn't reallythought about it like that, and
it makes me kind of rethink,because we all have is today.
Tomorrow may not come for anyof us, and so I guess I have to

(01:11:34):
ask myself well, what am I doingtoday to make sure that, if
tomorrow doesn't show up, thatI've put in that longevity
bucket?

So I'm going to challenge you on that.
Okay, so you even as I could.
We've had a couple of coupleconversations on.
I'm getting to know you and myfeeling is that you've got this
really long story, strength,opportunity to take guests to

(01:12:10):
your show like this and start toget this out like this.
This is you're like pumpingblood from the heart to the
arteries.
Is that the right?
I think, so arteries to theheart one of the two and you can
give so much to people by doingthat, like you said, you were

(01:12:32):
working your day job and likeall of that.
But like, how do you take theseopportunities to help others,
like you're doing with inrecovery, like that to me is
like that's like the.
You're just working on your ownsoul, right?
You're just you're working foron your own little thing.

(01:12:54):
It's not mine, it's not hers,it's not his.
You're just chipping away everyday making it better, right?
So why would god take anybodytomorrow?
Right, we're all working atthis thing.
We're working, we're chipping.
So my perspective is like ifyou're not done or you don't

(01:13:14):
feel done, then you're not RightNow.
It's just like I'm going to getup and I'm going to keep
chipping away at this thing andjust making this thing better.
And that could be some simplestuff.
All these weird talker guys.
They'll tell you just be.
What do they say?
Put yourself in a feeling ofhappiness all the time.

(01:13:34):
Whatever that is Joy, be in joyall the time.
Like, whatever that is joy, bein joy all the time.
Then most you can.
And I think that's cool becausethat's true and that's when
good things happen to you.
So, like this podcast could beone way.
It could be the people you helpin recovery.
Whatever it is you're chippingat making your soul better.
That's why your soul chose thisbody to come here.

(01:13:55):
You beat yourself up in yourbody for a reason, and now that
reason is to take that soul andjust sharpen it up and make it
better for whatever it's goingto be.
I always joke around.
I'm like I'll probably be afucking ocean wave Real boring,
real boring.
Come back as a wave.
Who cares?
But one little kid might be in,fucking ocean wave Real boring,
real boring.
Come back as a wave Like whocares, you know, but one little

(01:14:17):
kid might be like in the oceanat that moment, so this is great
.
Or a shark may catch his baitthat day, I don't know.
But you've got a hell of astory and you got a hell of a
like, a like, an opportunity tojust like keep going, like so I,
you keep going, like so I.

(01:14:39):
You will be here tomorrow andyou're gonna kick ass tomorrow.
I would spin that thoughtaround.
Man, that's true, I don't wantto be, you know, happy here.
They've got so much to give,like damn you're just getting
started right.

A hundred percent , yeah.
A hundred percent, a hundredpercent yeah.

And I appreciate you doing this kind
of like podcast too, becauseit's it's not talking about
surface stuff.
I think you really tapped intoa really good place and it's.
I think it's helpful for people, whether they find value in
what you said or what I'm saying.
It doesn't.
It's.
All you can do is amplify it.

So well, and also part of that's your.
You have a responsibility inthat, because if you weren't a
good conversationalist and youweren't able to go a little bit
deep with me today, thisconversation would not have been
near as good as it was, and Igot to tell you like it.
It's been one of my favoriteconversations, and you may think
I tell everybody that, but youcan go back and listen, and I

(01:15:38):
certainly don't.
But this is, and I didn'treally know where the
conversation was going to go.
I knew the product, the productline, and I think it's going
for a great cause, but I didn'tanticipate this.
So I'm very grateful for youopening up and going here with
me.
I really appreciate it.

Yeah, no, I've not done it before to this
degree myself, but it'ssomething I would talk to my
family about and, like I said,you've got a really open heart,
so I don't have any hesitation.
This isn't going to upsetanybody politically or upset
anybody to work with us.
I think it's a perspective onour lives that I believe we

(01:16:21):
should all have.
I'm not saying what I believeis right, but if we cap
ourselves, I always come back tothat Stevie Ray Vaughan story
when I think about life.
It's so hard for me and I'vetried to people usually you grow
through things.
I still can't get past that howhe went through a recovery of

(01:16:44):
hell and was doing such greatthings for people and helping
people in recovery like yourself, and then he was out on stage
just like a lightning rod fromGod.
And then he's gone and you go,wow, that's such a powerful
statement like that god took him.
Yeah, it's a powerful statementlike he must have like just

(01:17:07):
been, like tapping intosomething so strong at that
moment that god was like allright, I'm moving this soul over
here, that body's done.
And we go, wow, I want toachieve that power and that
strength and that's what I feellike we should take out of this
chat is like we can all do a lot.

A lot more than we think.

Yeah, you've done a million micro steps to
get to the great, the greatnessyou are now.
Dude be so proud of that latelap up.
I love that.
I'm not inspired by you morethan probably, hopefully,
anybody listened to me just bywhat you're telling me.
Yeah, it's, you've.

(01:17:53):
You've accomplished somethingthat I think is not, it's not
common, it's really not common.
So, thank you, I'm inspired byyou as well and I'm grateful for
you having me on.
And, like I said, if anybodyneeds anything in terms of what
we're doing, just to close theloop on this, we're working

(01:18:18):
through hospital systems, so wedon't have a direct-to-consumer
application.
We will, but not right now.
So some people will ask me like, oh, can I get to know my risk?
I'm like, well, we're workingthrough these systems now before
we get to consumers, but I canalways find a way to support

(01:18:40):
people if anybody's reallycurious.

Well, if somebody did want to get a hold of you,
maybe they have questions, maybesomebody that runs a hospital
hears this and they go hey, Ineed to talk to this guy.
How would they go about doingthat?

So emailing me directly is fine too.
So it's james atthrivegeneticsai, our website's
thrivegeneticsai, and then, likeI said, we have a few different
events we're going to be at.
In the fall.
There's an event in Las Vegascalled Health HLTH in October,

(01:19:16):
october 20th, I think We'll bebuzzing around there.
I don't think we're going tohave a table.
I'm always interested to talkto people, so I appreciate
allowing us to be on theplatform.
Yeah, man, thank you very much,I appreciate you.

Thanks so much, corey, you got it.

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James Piacentino | Preventing Addiction Through Genetic Testing

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}James Piacentino | Preventing Addiction Through Genetic Testing