Navigating HVAC Transitions: Carl Ippoliti on Refrigerant Shifts, Sales Mastery, and Personal Growth
January 10, 2025 • 58 mins
Carl Ippoliti, a veteran of the HVAC industry with half a century of expertise, joins us to shed light on the complex refrigerant transitions looming in 2025. As the industry shifts from R410 to environmentally friendlier alternatives like R32 and R454, Carl unpacks the historical context and ramifications for both homeowners and contractors. Expect to gain a deeper understanding of the challenges this transition presents, including rising costs and the imperative need for technician training to safely handle these slightly flammable substances.
Ever wondered how identifying personality types can revolutionize your sales technique? Drawing insights from "Versatile Selling" by Wilson Learning, we explore how recognizing and adapting to different social styles can forge stronger, more trustworthy relationships. Whether dealing with analytical, amiable, driver, or expressive types, we discuss strategies that align with each, ensuring your approach resonates with your audience. Carl and I dissect the dynamics of selling and buying, offering practical advice on reading personality signals and adjusting your sales strategy accordingly.
As we navigate the intricacies of HVAC efficiency and the shifting landscape of gas standards, this episode also offers guidance on making informed investment decisions in HVAC systems. We highlight the significance of understanding long-term energy savings, rebates, and tax credits. Wrapping up, the conversation touches on self-improvement inspired by "Atomic Habits," emphasizing that personal growth and self-care are the bedrock of supporting others. With warmth and anticipation, we express our gratitude for your time and extend heartfelt holiday greetings as we look forward to future engagements.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Corey Berrier (00:01):
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Berrier,and I'm here with our man, Carl
Ippoliti.
I messed it up, didn't I Damnit?
All right?
Well, help me out here,ippoliti, ippoliti, god dang it.
There you go.
Well, don't feel bad, Carl, I Fup Smith sometimes.
Carl Ippoliti (00:25):
Yeah, it's a very common name from my homeland,
yeah, which is where I'm a UScitizen, but my family origin is
obviously Italian.
So there you go.
Corey Berrier (00:38):
Yeah, makes sense .
How's it going, my man?
Carl Ippoliti (00:42):
You know how it's going.
I'm supposed to ask you thathow are you?
Corey Berrier (00:45):
doing today?
I'm doing magnificent.
Carl Ippoliti (00:51):
Unbelievable man.
Corey Berrier (00:52):
I'm going to steal the thunder.
Carl Ippoliti (00:55):
Don't lie to me, man.
In the middle of that word isthe word lie.
So let's try it again.
I'm going to ask you how you'redoing Unbelievable, yeah.
So let's be upbeat because youcan answer it to me in the down,
down and Debbie downer way.
How are you doing today?
Oh, unbelievable.
We all know what that is.
I'm doing unbelievable.
Corey Berrier (01:18):
Unbelievable, love it, and it's interesting
that you mentioned that.
And I and I do want you to telleverybody those that may not
know who you are and what you do, but that downward inflection
is important.
When you're discussing anything, I don't care if it's with your
wife or your child or acustomer or a future customer,
(01:41):
just to that perfect exampleunbelievable or unbelievable,
it's the same exact word, buttwo different tonality.
For sure, inflection means alot 100%, 100%, carl, yeah, give
us a quick rundown, a littlebit about who you are and what
(02:01):
you do and all that good stuff.
Carl Ippoliti (02:03):
Okay, bit about who you are and what you do and
all that good stuff.
Okay, so I've been in the HVACindustry for over 50 years and,
corey, this is when you say,damn, you don't look that old.
Yeah, 51 years, 52 years in theHVAC business from the
contractor side and the last 33years from distribution at
(02:25):
Pierce Phelps or Wasco ondistributor of carrier and
Bryant and a lot of other things, and I'm the director of sales
and marketing for theresidential division.
So I've seen a lot in thisindustry and I got a lot of
experience and some stories.
Corey Berrier (02:44):
I bet you do, I bet you do, I bet you do.
So I must ask.
We are quickly approaching 2025, which is going to be a very
different year for our HVACcontractors.
Can you dive into a little bitabout the refrigerant change and
(03:06):
what either one?
What can people expect andcorrect me if I'm wrong, but my
research shows that prices arenot going down.
No, they're not.
Carl Ippoliti (03:22):
Let me just try to do this quickly.
Back in 1997, there was theMontreal Protocol that said that
the industry not just the HVACindustry but automobiles as well
had to change the refrigerantin the systems because the
refrigerant was harmful to theozone and that was like using
(03:44):
R22, that's a refrigerant.
So the industry had to changeto a non-ozone destroying
refrigerant, which they did.
It was R410 and Carriertrademarked it as Puron.
The nice thing about it thattransition was it was a gradual
transition over a period of time, like from 1997 to 2020, before
(04:05):
R22 was no longer allowed to bemade.
So that was good, that slowtransition.
There was still R22 availableand it made it easy.
This transition is a hard one.
So we healed the ozone with thenew refrigerant back then.
So now what we did was wecaused global warming because
(04:27):
the ozone is now healed.
So there's refrigerants theR410 refrigerant, which is what
everybody uses, and theresidential and commercial side
of equipment.
The industry came back with aminimum global warming
potentiality that refrigerantcan have and all kinds of
(04:48):
science and formulas, and it hasto be lower than 750.
Effective January 1st, twodifferent refrigerants have come
out R32 and R454.
R32 is being manufactured andmade for one brand and they go
by three names and the rest ofthe industry is going with R454.
(05:12):
And at Cary and Bryant we'recalling it Puron Advance.
The global warming potentialityof the one is slightly below
the 750.
And the Puron Advance and theR454 is significantly lower than
the 750.
It's like around 450.
It settles in at and thistransition is a hard stop, like
(05:36):
manufacturers can't make anymore and if it's made before the
end of this year it can stillbe installed.
But manufacturing has to stopright now making it at the end
of the year.
So there's going to be atransition where homeowners are
going to be thinking about whatdo I put in?
R410 units that are made beforethe end of the year can still
(05:58):
be installed.
Those are going to work.
There's going to be R410available.
The refrigerant Not sure of thecost, of what's going to happen
to the cost of it when you havea leak.
And then the R454 and the R32,you can bet your bottom dollar
that the price is going to go up.
So at some point probablyaround March, april, may you're
(06:19):
going to see most distributorsand most brands are going to be
flipping the switch to the newrefrigerant.
Corey Berrier (06:28):
That makes sense.
I thank you for explaining that.
I shouldn't say it makes sense.
What kind of impact?
Because there's got to be amassive training in developing
technicians in a process likethis.
(06:49):
A lot of companies are running.
A lot of companies don't evendo training for whatever reason.
But what happens to those guysand how much training are you
seeing that's going to have togo into these technicians to get
them up to speed with this?
Carl Ippoliti (07:08):
It's not a lot.
This new refrigerant is I'mgoing to do the bunny ear thing
here the quotes that this newrefrigerant is slightly
flammable and there needs to besensors on the evaporator coils
that would sense if any of thatrefrigerant has leaked into the
(07:28):
house and it'll kill the system,turn it off.
So there's sensors that need tobe put in the coils.
Storage is a little differentnow for contractors because of
the slight flammability.
So the irony of that wholething is, you know, people are
like oh, it's flammable.
(07:49):
If you have a gas furnace it isflammable and it's a hell of a
lot more flammable than therefrigerant, and same thing with
LP gas and even oil, if youwant to think about it.
So there's going to be sometraining.
There are going to be somestorage issues.
As far as installation, it'snot that much of a big deal.
(08:11):
You have to put the sensor inif it's not already installed.
It's not that much of a bigdeal in my opinion, right.
Corey Berrier (08:19):
Yeah, I imagine just the talk track around it
too is going to be important fortechnicians to be able to
explain the difference in thetwo.
Track around it too is going tobe important for for
technicians to be able toexplain the difference in the
two and why it's changing, andall that good stuff which also
fall into that training categoryyeah, there's some new tool,
new tools that'll be needed, butokay, it's refrigerant yeah,
(08:41):
yeah, makes sense.
All right, one of the thingsthat I really wanted you to talk
about today.
I don't know if you mentionedthis when we got, when we
started, but you have you hold aFranklin Covey license.
Did I say that right?
Carl Ippoliti (08:56):
I'm certified, instead of having highly
effective people, I really itreally helped save my life and
turn my career around.
I went from probably being avillain in my life to turning
out to be a very good person,and the seven habits of highly
effective people is what didthat for me.
And there's other courses thatI've taken and there's other
(09:20):
learning things I've done andbooks I've read about how to
deal with different personalitytypes.
It's really important not onlyfor you to understand your
personality type, but tounderstand your family, your
loved ones, your friends, theteammates around you for work,
(09:40):
and also from the customer'spoint of view when you're
selling to a customer, and alsofrom the customer's point of
view when you're selling to acustomer, not only should you
understand your personality, youneed to be able to identify the
person that you're having aninteraction with, their
personality type.
That goes a long way because,when it comes down to it,
(10:03):
especially in the HVAC or homeservices, we've all bought
something from somebody that wedidn't like, right.
Yes, unfortunately, but we dolike to buy from people we like
right.
We do like to buy from peoplewe like.
So there's no denying that, andthere's a science behind seeing
the way a personality is, andyou've got to know your
(10:24):
personality right.
So the question is who are you?
And in home sales, what is yourcustomer like?
What are they like?
So years ago I read this bookVersatile Selling by Wilson
Learning, and I learned a lotfrom that book.
(10:45):
People love to buy, right, theylove to buy.
They do.
They just hate being sold.
So this book did a study about2 million people in 40 years and
they did all kinds of researchand they learned that one out of
four people has a social styleor a comfort zone or behavior.
So what that means is roughly25% of the people are like you
(11:10):
and 75% of the people are notlike you.
And why.
I'll ask you why you thinkthat's important.
You got to determine your style.
You got to learn to read theother person's style.
You need to adapt your style tothe customer and then that
(11:31):
creates trust, because thecustomer then feels comfortable
and they're more apt to buy fromyou.
So let's take it why thishappens and how quickly it
happens.
It's all primitive man.
It's all primitive Human beingsare wired.
We're wired to survive, right?
We're wired to respond.
(11:53):
It all goes back to the threatwhen we were facing that
saber-toothed tiger.
So the hypothalamus in thebrain kicks in and it says I'm
either going to fight you, I'mgoing to run from you, or I'm
just going to freeze.
So that's what's taking place.
When you get into that survivalmode, you say to yourself is
(12:16):
this person a threat, a friend,are they like me, are they not
like me?
The minute that startshappening, art rate flutters,
breathing gets a little heavier,adrenaline kicks in, right.
So let's talk about it from thecustomer's point of view.
So, customers, it's all aboutcomfort and trust Right In the
(12:46):
beginning of the sales process,or any relationship for that
matter.
They don't disclose too much inthe beginning of the
relationship, right, they justdon't.
And then what happens next isyou can see their behavior when
you're interacting with somebody, but you'll never really
understand what they're feelingor thinking.
So there's the next problem youhave to face.
Now this is where it getsreally crazy.
So there's a dimension ofasserting yourself, and I'm
(13:10):
going to call this the sellingdimension and there's the other
dimension of the responsivedimension, that's the buying
dimension.
In the beginning of a salesprocess, there's tension.
There's tension Got to makesure you're doing the right
purchase with the right person.
So at the beginning of thesales call there is relationship
(13:31):
tension.
It's guarded, it's primal right.
The customer may not trust you,but in reality they just don't
know you.
So in the beginning there's afear factor.
So let's talk about the sellingdimension or the asserting
dimension, and there's two types.
(13:52):
There's the person that asksquestions when you're in a
selling mode, or tell.
So there's ask seller and atell seller, and nothing's wrong
with either one of them.
I want to be really clear aboutthat.
The issue is if you are one ofthose types, you could be
(14:22):
offending two out of four buyerswith your personality type.
So you may want to ask yourselfwell, how do I know what these
personality types are if I'm aseller?
Here you go.
I'm going to ask you, corey,raise your hand every time you
hit on one of these.
Do you see yourself as speakingdeliberately and pausing much.
Yes, okay, do you see yourself?
Corey Berrier (14:45):
seldom interrupting others.
I'll answer that two ways.
I used to be that way, but Ihave worked really hard to not
do that.
Carl Ippoliti (14:56):
Okay.
Do you use voice for inflection?
I do.
Do you make conditionalstatements?
Corey Berrier (15:05):
As an example.
If this, I'll do that yes.
Carl Ippoliti (15:12):
I try not to Do you bleed back when you're
talking with people.
Corey Berrier (15:19):
I do because I think it's more comforting.
Carl Ippoliti (15:22):
Okay.
So if you were a selling mode,asserting yourself on someone,
right now you're telling me thatyou're an analytical or an
amiable.
Okay, there's two personalitytypes that you could be making
uncomfortable because you'rethat type of person.
Now let's ask another style Areyou when you're asserting
(15:43):
yourself and when you're thattype of person?
Now let's ask another style Areyou, when you're asserting
yourself and when you're selling?
You speak quickly and firmly?
I try not to.
Okay, Do you interrupt others?
Corey Berrier (15:59):
I absolutely try not to do that.
Carl Ippoliti (16:03):
Do you often use your voice for emphasis, like
inflection?
Corey Berrier (16:09):
I do.
Carl Ippoliti (16:12):
Do you lean forward when you're in the sales
process?
Corey Berrier (16:16):
Sometimes, sometimes I lean forward,
sometimes I lean back.
It depends on what part of thesales process.
Carl Ippoliti (16:22):
Okay, that's fair .
So if you're one of those types, you're a driver, expressive
Okay, so the driver expressivewhen they're selling with their
style that they sell and they'retrying to sell to an analytical
or an amiable, there's going tobe uncomfort.
If you're an analytical or anamiable seller and you're
(16:43):
selling to somebody that happensto be a driver or an expressive
, you're going to make them feeluncomfortable.
So let's talk about how we seepeople when they're being sold
or the response they give you.
There's two types.
There's the task response theygive you.
(17:07):
There's two types.
There's the task.
This means they're going togive you a task and it tells you
what personality type they are.
And then there's the people.
So there's a task type andthere's a people type.
Realize that if you are one ofthese types and now I'm going to
ask you, corey, you're now inthe selling mode with me, right,
raise your hand.
If you are one of these types,and now I'm going to ask you,
(17:30):
corey, you're now in the sellingmode with me, right, raise your
hand.
If you're one of these, do youtalk when someone's trying to
sell you, corey?
Do you ask for?
Do you give that person a taskor do you ask for a lot of facts
.
You're the buyer, I'm sellingyou and you're going to respond
to me, are you?
Corey Berrier (17:44):
going to give me a task or are you looking for a
lot of facts?
I'm looking for more facts.
Carl Ippoliti (17:48):
I would say Do you use minimal body gestures to
me?
I'm selling you now.
Corey Berrier (18:00):
I would say minimum, because I don't want
you to, I don't want you, Idon't want to show my hand.
Carl Ippoliti (18:05):
Okay, do you show like a narrow range of emotions
and feelings when someone'strying to sell you something?
Corey Berrier (18:13):
Narrow yes.
Carl Ippoliti (18:15):
Okay, and you probably use minimal facial
expressions, right?
Your face doesn't really revealanything.
I hope not Okay.
Anything, I hope not OK.
So if you're giving me thatread and I'm selling you, you're
telling me you're an analyticalslash driver, one or the other.
So if I recognize that I'mtrying to assert myself on to
(18:36):
you to buy something from me andI'm an amiable or I'm an
expressive, I got to tone itdown.
I have to adapt my style.
So I'm not amiable or I'm anexpressive.
I got to tone it down.
I have to adapt my style so I'mnot making you uncomfortable.
So there's that task orientedperson that's selling and then
there's the task oriented personthat's buying.
So we're talking about thebuyers now, right?
So let's talk about the buyer.
(18:57):
That's people oriented.
They talk about other people alot, right, oh, you know so and
so, oh, you did the job down thestreet, right?
So if you're in the buying modeand you use big body, expansive
posturing and gesturing, like Iam right now, and you show a
(19:21):
broad range of feeling, or youuse varied and a lot of facial
expressions when you're beingsold, I'm picking up on that you
and I'm trying to sell yousomething and you're giving me
that vibe.
Corey Berrier (19:33):
You're definitely an amiable or an expressive, so
you got to figure out whatstyle are you right?
Carl Ippoliti (19:40):
You got to figure out what style are you and then
you got to figure out whatstyle is the buyer.
So let's get in the roots Ready.
You told me who you were.
I knew you were the first timeyou and I talked.
So let's talk about who is ananalytical.
That's someone that focuses onthe facts and logic.
(20:03):
They act when there is a payoffand they know it.
They don't commit too early,Right, they speak slow.
They have an indifferenthandshake.
They ask a lot of questions.
They lean backwards.
They're serious, logical,systematic and thorough.
(20:27):
That is 100% an analyticalperson.
Like an engineer as an example.
Correct, Okay Now.
Do you recall the movie FullMetal Jacket?
Oh yeah, Do you remember thedrill sergeant?
Yes 100 percent a driver.
(20:47):
Without a doubt.
They focus on results, theytake charge, they make quick
decisions, they like to bechallenged, independent, candid,
decisive, practical.
They speak fast, they seekcontrol of the call, they're
opinionated and they'reimpatient.
So if you're dealing withsomebody like that on a sales
(21:10):
call, be prepared.
Here's why I'll give you anexample the driver personality.
If you see their driverpersonality, you better give
them options, you better givethem choices and you better give
them more than three.
So I have to be careful here.
This is for demonstrationpurposes only.
(21:32):
This is not to be seen as agesture that I'm doing on a
video podcast.
The driver personality does notlike to be sold.
The driver personality likes tobe the one making the decision.
So generally in our industry,we show three choices.
Corey Berrier (21:51):
Three Good, better best.
Carl Ippoliti (21:54):
Good, better, best.
So a driver who's one out offour buyers.
If you do this to a driverpersonality one out of four and
you do this to them, you've lostthem.
So now you're already behindthe eight ball with trying to
make a sale because you'vealready made somebody not like
you and not realize you're doingit.
So an HVAC or any home supplyor service that we don't know
(22:16):
what we're buying and there'sthree choices.
We're going to probably throwout the least expensive and then
we're probably going to throwout the most expensive because
we don't know really what we'regetting.
So we're going to sellsomewhere in the middle.
So for those that aren't seeingthe visual, you can imagine
what's happening with my threefingers.
That's what the driver now says.
The driver says you're makingme pick the one in the middle
(22:39):
and I'm not picking that becauseI'm in charge.
That's why you gotta do fourfour feels boxed in right.
Corey Berrier (22:45):
Is that what you say?
He feels like you're boxing himinto that one decision.
Because, yeah, that makes sensecorrect.
Carl Ippoliti (22:52):
So four choices all the time.
The least expensive is thrownout by the driver, the most
expensive is thrown out by thedriver.
Now they feel like they have achoice.
Highly recommend you do thatwith a driver personality.
So let's talk about theammubles, and in my opinion I
have the most trouble withammubles.
I have to adapt my sellingstyle to an ammuble and we all
(23:14):
have them.
You've gone on that call.
Wow, that was a really goodcall, man.
There was a lot of agreement.
The homeowner showed a lot ofsupport.
They communicated with me.
There was a lot of trust felt.
They asked me for my opinion.
What's in your house?
Thank you for coming.
They ask me for my opinion.
What's in your house?
Thank you for coming.
Express a lot of gratitude.
They speak slow, they're vague,they're cooperative, blah, blah
(23:42):
, blah.
And then they don't give youthe order.
The call went great right.
I think they're the hardest tosell to, in my own opinion,
because of my personality type.
I'm a driver and animals tendto take their time.
And then there's the expressiveright, the expressive
personality.
They create excitement, theyshare their ideas, their dreams.
(24:05):
They're motivated, firmhandshake, they're quick,
they're clear, they like to talk, they like to make them.
I want the best.
They make statements like thatI want the best unit out there.
I want the best that can buy.
I'm the glowworm of theneighborhood, so you got to
recognize that.
So if they're inexpressive, soit's just.
The science of this is gets somuch cool.
(24:26):
So think about it now.
The one that is opposite of youand we can't do a chart on the
screen right now, but the onethat's opposite of you that is
the most least like you is theone you're going to have the
biggest trouble with.
So now, your pool of who youcan buy to went from 100% down
to 75%, and you didn't even knowwhat happened, because they're
(24:47):
not comfortable because they'renot comfortable.
There's all kinds of sciencebehind it for the specialty,
like there's different things.
They're going to want differentpersonality types Especially.
Let's do a quiz here.
Let me quiz you.
You ready?
Let's do it this way.
(25:08):
I'll give you the topic andwrite down the four personality
types analytical driver,expressive and amiable.
Corey Berrier (25:23):
Just write them down, you ready.
Carl Ippoliti (25:25):
All right.
So analytical driver,expressive and amiable Okay, if
their specialty, I tell you, istechnical, what do you think
they are All right?
Ask me that one more time.
If they're interacting with youand you're trying to sell to
them and their specialty seemsto be technical and they're
(25:46):
asking you technical stuff, whatdo you think they are
Analytical If they take controlof the call?
What do you think they areAnalytical If they take control
of the call?
What do you think they are?
Expressive Driver Driver.
If they're really social, whatdo you think they are Expressive
If they're supportive?
What do you think they are?
Amiable?
Okay, benefits Ready, here wego, let's test you more.
(26:09):
You're doing really good.
That's 100%, corey, I like thatFor benefits.
And you're trying to sell themon benefits and they ask you how
does that work?
What do you think they are?
Corey Berrier (26:29):
I would think that would be analytical.
Carl Ippoliti (26:32):
Correct, okay, if I say to you what are the
benefits of this equipmentDriver?
If I say to you who else hasthose benefits?
What other brands have thosebenefits?
Expressive, and if I say to youwhy are those benefits
(26:52):
important?
What do you think it is Amiable, right, yeah.
Now, when it comes time to makea decision, you ready, here you
go, corey, you're killing it.
Man, you're eight for eight, myfriend.
Now it's decision time and theyask you for evidence and they
ask you for service.
Who do you think it is?
(27:12):
Driver, not analytical.
They're asking for evidence.
The driver is going to ask youfor options and probabilities
because they want to make thedecision Okay, fair For
testimonies and incentives.
That's an expressive.
The amiable they're going towant to know about guarantees
(27:33):
and insurances.
What's the warranty, what's thelabor protection, that kind of
stuff.
Right Time how they measure youwith time is very important.
The analytical wants you to beaccurate with your time.
The driver says I'm giving you45 minutes and that's what I'm
giving you.
The expressive needs you needto be stimulating.
(27:54):
And the amiable you need to beagreeable.
And they measure youdifferently.
The analytical measures youwith activity.
They give you things to do.
The driver wants results, theexpressive wants applause.
You'll be the only one in theneighborhood with the top of the
line equipment, and this justgoes on and on.
The backup style is good toknow.
(28:14):
When the analytical startsavoiding you, that's their
backup style.
The driver gets autocratic,they'll tell you An expressive
is worse.
They'll attack you and anamiable kind of just like yields
and acquiesces and like ghostsyou and an amiable kind of just
like yields and acquiesces andlike ghosts you.
(28:41):
So the main thing I wanteverybody to take out of this
conversation that we're havingright here is it all starts with
looking in the mirror, beingable to look in the mirror at
yourself to see what personalitytype you are, and then being
able to quickly identify theperson you're selling to.
So in 1940, john Paul Sartrewrote a play called no Exit, and
(29:05):
in this play it's three soulsthat are trapped in the
afterlife in a room with no exit.
So that would be hell, right,sounds like it.
They're stuck in a room andthey're irritating the hell out
of each other because they'retrying to force change onto the
other two people to be more likethem.
So hell isn't the torturechambers that we think it is,
(29:28):
it's just all about wantingpeople to be just like you.
Three out of four aredefinitely not like you.
Now, imagine if you put a mirrornow in this room and that each
one of you can look in themirror and reflect upon
themselves and say what do Ineed to change about myself?
Raising the question like,would I have the humility to be
(29:53):
able to change if given a chance, if I can look in the mirror
and adapt my natural sellingstyle to make the buyer
comfortable?
So then trust gets formed wayeasier.
I'm not telling you to be achameleon.
I'm not telling you to changewho you are.
(30:15):
If you're an expressive, bethat If you're a driver, be that
If you're an analytical, bethat If you're amiable, be that,
all I'm saying is modify yourstyle so the homeowner or the
person you're selling to, oreven your family member or your,
your spouse or a friend or yourteammate, gets more comfortable
(30:37):
with you.
So then trust gets developed.
It takes time, practice, butit's a really cool thing if you
get that book and start tryingto figure out people's
personalities and you can figurethem out pretty quickly.
Corey Berrier (30:51):
And the end result in a sale is that
everybody walks away happy.
You walk away as thesalesperson, happy, the buyer
walks away with the product andthey're happy.
And the quickest way to do thatis the way you're talking about
.
Carl Ippoliti (31:05):
Yeah, it's not anything like shady or anything
like that.
All you're trying to do is tocreate trust and comfort and it
goes back to what I said in thebeginning of a buying process
the process.
There is tension because wedon't want to be sold right.
We like to buy from people welike, and the quickest way to
(31:30):
get that comfort level is tolearn the people's style, your
style.
There's an easy way to take atest, a habit see what kind of
style you are, and we've done itinternally here.
You take the test, you give thetest to your significant other,
you give the test to somebodyyou work with and see if they
(31:53):
see you the way you see yourself.
It's pretty cool experience,especially when you see yourself
a certain way and others don'tsee you that way.
Corey Berrier (32:03):
So that was actually.
I thought about that a secondago.
How many people, as I wastelling you the kind of person
that I am based on yourquestions, did that actually
line up, Because that was myperspective, right?
Did that line up with what youbelieve that I am?
Did I describe myself as youwould describe me, so to speak?
Carl Ippoliti (32:29):
Yeah, yes.
So the trick to this this andhere's where it gets difficult
so you can be a dominant one ofthe four, a dominant personality
like the one of one of the fourand the two that are right next
to you.
There's other personality typesin this quadrant which I can't
do on the screen right now, butyou do have personality traits
(32:51):
similar to that other two out ofthe four.
One is definitely like you, twoout of four is similar like you
, but one out of four isdefinitely opposed to your
personality type.
Yes, you gave off everything.
I thought you were prettyquickly.
(33:11):
But here's the trick Inlong-term relationships you have
a lot of time to really figureout what the person is, what
their responses are, how theyrespond, how you assert yourself
on them.
The problem is in the homesituation.
When you're in the home andyou're making a sale, you only
have maybe 90 minutes.
(33:32):
You're doing the home andyou're making a sale, you only
have maybe 90 minutes.
You're doing the loadcalculation, you're looking at
the ductwork, the electricalpanel, you're trying to sell a
job on the equipment and you gota very little bit of time to
figure out that personalitytrait.
But there's signals that giveit to you quickly if you know
how to see them.
If you know how to see them,the key is being able, once you
(33:54):
see that signal on how to reactto it, what they're going to
want from you An analytical isgoing to say to you what's the
static pressure of this unit,right, they say that to you.
Light bulbs go off.
I know what you are, man.
And if you don't know, theyprobably already know.
They're testing you.
(34:15):
So they just tell them.
I'm gonna look it up right here.
Thank god for these things nowbecause you can look it up and
tell them right away.
The express is going to say Iwant the best one.
That the driver is going totell you.
If, given choices, they'regoing to tell you which one they
want, don't try to push themout of that box.
And the amiable they're goingto tell you if, given choices,
they're going to tell you whichone they want, don't try to push
them out of that box.
And the amiable they're goingto want to know about warranties
(34:37):
and assurances like that andwho else has it, and reviews.
And the minute you starthearing that, you kind of got to
realize who you are.
If I'm a driver which I am andI'm trying to sell to an amiable
.
That's tough, it goes both ways.
I'm trying to sell to anamiable that's tough, it goes
both ways.
I'm going to irritate theamiable, the amiable is going to
irritate me.
So there you go.
(34:57):
I'm now one person down andtrying to make a successful sale
to him.
So I've got to recognize thatpersonality type.
Corey Berrier (35:05):
And the analytical he's looking for.
I'll just use your example.
If he asks about the staticpressure, he wants to know
exactly what that is.
He doesn't want a ballparkRight, because it makes you look
like you don't know what you'retalking about if you give that
guy a ballpark.
Carl Ippoliti (35:21):
No, you'll lose trust, right, I guess somewhere
around 1.25.
Corey Berrier (35:27):
No, they want to know Right.
Carl Ippoliti (35:31):
Anyway, I know it's a science.
It's a fun science to practiceand try to learn it.
But I read you pretty quickly.
Corey Berrier (35:42):
So somebody listening to this conversation
where would you recommend them?
Start to figuring out who theyare and to figure out who other
people are.
What would it be to go readthat with the book you Versatile
Selling, or would it be?
Carl Ippoliti (36:05):
Corey, I'm sure there's a lot of learning
potential and availability outthere on learning social styles
of selling and buying.
I would recommend that.
Do that and don't tell me youdon't have enough time.
We're in our cars a lot driving.
People call that the traveluniversity.
(36:28):
Right, listen to podcasts likeyours that you have and listen,
go on youtube and just startdigging in and looking and learn
how to read personality stylesin a selling situation.
I don't care which one you'redoing.
It doesn't have to be that bookit could be any resource but
(36:50):
first learn what you are andthen identify how others are and
then practice it.
Corey Berrier (36:59):
And will that book give you an idea of who you
are based on the content?
Okay, yes, yes, interesting.
Yeah, I could see how thiscould be a downfall, for sure
when people don't know, and thena massive benefit if they do
know.
Carl Ippoliti (37:20):
It's a massive benefit if they do know.
And it's a massive benefit ifyou can start to identify what
others are saying to you is whenyou're in that situation and
you have 90 minutes insomebody's home, if you can
quickly identify thatpersonality style, then you can
quickly adapt your assertiveness, your selling style to make
(37:45):
that homeowner more comfortable.
If I go to somebody's house andI go in and they say you have 45
minutes and I say I really need90 minutes to do a really
thorough evaluation so you getthe proper equipment, I do the
right sizing, and they say no,45 minutes.
Right there, they're a driver,right, you better be prepared to
(38:07):
offer choices, right?
If I walk in there and I say Ineed 90 minutes and they say
obviously your CSR should havealready prompted that.
But if they say I need 90minutes and the buyer says oh,
I'm good, you need more time,take more time, well, right
(38:27):
there it starts to tell methat's probably an amulet or it
could be an expressive.
But then start to see how theyreact with you.
Next they start asking youquestions.
A piece of paper out withtablet with notes already down
that's probably analytical,probably.
Corey Berrier (38:45):
Yeah, are there certain?
And it's not to trick anybody,but are there certain questions?
I guess that you could ask todraw out some language that
would give you an idea of wherethat person is.
Carl Ippoliti (39:03):
I think the most powerful you know.
There's a list of questionswhat could I?
How could I help you with yourcomfort?
How can I help you with yourcomfort?
How could I help you with yourefficiency?
How could I help you with yourutility bill?
But the biggest question I liketo ask, because the beginning of
(39:25):
the sales process people don'tdivulge right, they don't tell
you what the real reason forbuying is.
So you go through the normalask of questions what do you
like least to best those kind ofquestions.
But the best question for me isand I always do it if I could
give you a magic wand and Ihanded it to you and you could
(39:47):
fix one thing or change onething about your heating and air
conditioning system, what wouldit be?
That kind of reveals a lot atthat point.
If you could change one thing,what would it be with a magic
wand?
If they say I'd like my utilitybill to go down, okay, you're
(40:13):
probably an analytical or driver.
If they say I just want that, Iwant the best, most efficient
system out there, probably anexpressive.
So there's.
I like that question at somepoint in the sales process.
What if I could give you amagic wand and fix one thing or
change one thing for you.
What would it be?
Corey Berrier (40:30):
One question that's always bothered me is
what do you like about yourcurrent system?
In my opinion, they haven'treally thought about what they
like.
They just know the damn thing'snot working Right.
They don't really.
I just that question.
I just don't understand.
It just seems like a reallywide open question that is not
(40:53):
super valuable, because I justdon't know that you're going to
get the answer you're lookingfor.
But what you're asking is weknow the magic wand question.
Now it gives them anopportunity to imagine and that
makes complete sense.
Carl Ippoliti (41:09):
Another one I think is a very good question is
what is your criteria for this?
Purchase Makes sense, and theymay not even know because
they've only bought maybe none.
Now they're going to buy theirfirst time.
It's not like buying a car,where they bought cars already
and bought more than one car intheir life.
(41:29):
They probably only buy one ortwo hvac systems.
But what?
What is your criteria?
Corey Berrier (41:39):
hmm, that makes sense.
And if they go lower the bill?
Now you understand what theyare.
If they say my bedroom's hotand my wife gets on my ass about
it, but then that's a wholedifferent.
But it opens the door for themto tell you what the pain point
is.
Carl Ippoliti (41:56):
Exactly that's the whole point.
In one of my classes I talkabout peeling away the onion to
really get down to what it isthat's really bothering them,
and sometimes they don't divulgethat early in the sales process
.
Corey Berrier (42:11):
Most of the time they don't actually no they
don't divulge that early in thesales process.
Carl Ippoliti (42:13):
Most of the time they don't actually.
No, they don't, but part ofit's what you said.
They don't really know why theythink they need a new system.
Usually they think they need anew system when it dies, but
right now, with thisrefrigeration change and on a
service call, there's going tobe a lot to talk about in the
middle of this upcoming yearwhen the R410 equipment
(42:36):
availability is slowlydiminished.
And if you're a homeowner, yougot to say do I want to buy the
new one or do I want to go withthe one?
That's been consistent for thelast 27 years.
It's the contractor.
He's got a sales consultant,they got to figure out the best
(43:01):
way and they got to see whattheir supplier actually still
has in stock.
It's going to be chaos.
We're in a zone of disruptionright now.
Yeah, sorry about that.
Corey Berrier (43:12):
Yeah, yeah, and without having good training and
understanding how to navigatethis, it is going to be a
problem for sure.
Yeah, I think the industry as awhole is in for it's going to
(43:33):
be a it may be a rough year.
It may be a rough year.
When this happened the lasttime, since you've been in the
business for 140 years, what didyou see was the biggest?
What did you see was thebiggest the biggest problem when
(43:56):
this change happened last time?
Carl Ippoliti (43:58):
I loved it you loved it, I loved it.
Okay.
So let's talk about thetimeline of the hvac industry.
Back in the day I can'tremember what year it was, but
we from we went up to 80% AFU,so it was lower than that.
And then we went to 10 C forthose listening seasonal energy
(44:22):
efficiency of the outdoor unit.
And then we went a few yearsand then we went up to minimum
standard and the minimumstandard for heating is still
80%, by the way.
But then we went on the SEERrating.
We went from 10 to 13.
And that change was moredisruptive than the refrigerant
(44:45):
because the units all got biggerand everybody freaked out.
And then the refrigerant changecame and it was ozone friendly,
it was easy.
It was easy, and thecontractors.
It was more money, but thecontractors adapted quickly and
(45:08):
we loved it because homeownerswere buying up pretty fast when
we changed the refrigerant.
And then the C-rays got raisedagain, and raised again, and now
the refrigerant's being changedout.
I'm sure in another couple ofyears and I hope it doesn't
happen minimum gas efficiencymay go up to above 80%, and
(45:30):
that's going to be a nightmare.
That will be a nightmare above80%, and that's going to be a
nightmare.
That will be a nightmare, butsometimes change is progress.
Right, and I think this isprogress.
We're saving, helping save theenvironment.
People are getting a globalwarming potentiality in check
and the ozone has been somewhathealed.
(45:51):
It's a good story to tell, butR410, if you buy a system now
with R410 and you have itmaintained and serviced properly
, it should last you 20 years.
And the R454, same thing lasts20 years.
So this next year is going tobe homeowners.
(46:13):
Got more of a choice now.
Makes sense, makes sense Makessense.
Corey Berrier (46:21):
So this will be probably a difficult question
because you have so muchinformation.
But if you were just ahomeowner, what decision would
you make?
Would you stay with the R410 orwould you go with the new
product?
Carl Ippoliti (46:38):
It would depend on the price, of the retail
price.
I would want to know.
If I'm selling to somebody andthey're asking me, I'd ask how
long do you plan on staying inthis house?
You plan on staying in thishouse and I think that the
(47:01):
easiest way to sell HVAC andthis is crazy how simple it is
the homeowner you give them theresources where it says an HVAC
system should last you 15 to 20years if maintained properly.
Okay, so let's just use the 15years.
If you take 15 years times 365days, I think that's 5,450 days,
(47:21):
okay.
Okay.
If you take 5,450 days anddivide that, let's say it's
$5,450, right, the difference inthe two systems.
If you take $5,450 and divideit by 5,450 days, that's a
dollar a day.
(47:42):
But the better equipmentefficiency-wise and I'm not
talking about the refrigerant,the efficiency-wise is going to
save you money.
So if it saves you $300 a yearI don't know you do the math 365
days divided by $300, I don'tknow like 75 cents, 80 cents.
(48:04):
So the better system that's gotvariable speed and higher
efficiency, that's going to costyou a dollar a day, is giving
you back a return on yourinvestment of 80 cents a day.
So the better system is nowreally only costing you 20
dollar a day.
It's giving you back a returnon your investment of 80 cents a
day.
So the better system is nowreally only costing you 20 cents
a day, like it's a no brainer.
(48:24):
It's a no brainer when you talkabout how much is it per day.
People look at this number atthe end of the quote and they
say the difference between a 14SEER and a 17.5-seer is $5,450.
Okay, it's a dollar a day, butit's saving you 75 cents 80
cents a day.
(48:44):
So the better system is onlycosting you 15 cents a day.
You tell me I don't know whatyour convenience stores are down
in North Carolina where youlive, but up in Pennsylvania
there's a war between sheets andblah, blah, blah.
You think about how many timesa consumer goes into those
convenience stores and spends 10bucks, because that's the
(49:06):
average of what a homeownerspends per day in one of those
fast convenience stores.
They spend $10 a day.
Not even thinking about it.
Corey Berrier (49:16):
That's a really good point.
Carl Ippoliti (49:18):
You know where I saw that.
It hit me years ago.
I was driving back on theturnpike and I saw a billboard
and it said this billboard onlycosts you X per day.
I'm like wow, when you reallystart looking at it per day,
it's so much easier to sell aheating and air conditioning
system and upgrading it to thehomeowner if you just narrow it
(49:40):
down to the cost per day.
Corey Berrier (49:45):
Yeah, because most people are going to your
point.
Most people are going to Wawaor they're going through
Starbucks and they're spendingexactly around $10 every day to
do either one of those things.
Carl Ippoliti (49:58):
So I know when I was in sales that's what I would
do.
I would like it's per day.
What's it going to cost you perday?
Corey Berrier (50:04):
Yeah, and if you do the math and you walk it back
to your point with the rebatesand with all the things, if you
know how to do that and I'm sureall of your people do know how
to do that it makes that numbervery obtainable, even though the
bigger number is what you'resigning the check for or the
(50:26):
financing for.
But if you break it down, likeI said, with the rebates and
with the energy savings and….
Carl Ippoliti (50:33):
Tax credits.
Corey Berrier (50:35):
Yeah, you're looking at four or five thousand
dollars over the next 10 yearsI didn't even equate that into
those numbers just now so thenit's really a no-brainer if you
know how to do that and somepeople don't, but it's.
It makes it very simple for thehomeowner to make a decision.
Carl Ippoliti (50:59):
If you present that to an analytical, it's a
done deal.
Man.
If you say to the driverpersonality you want me to show
you how you can get a return onyour investment and after I show
you you can make a decision,that now puts it back into their
hands that they're the boss,you give it to the amulet and
they're like wow, I feel reallywarm and fuzzy because you just
(51:20):
showed me how this is going tosave me money and actually make
me money.
When you throw in the rebatesand all that stuff like you just
mentioned, and the expressive,he's at the local barbecue
boasting about how the system hejust bought was like $18,000,
$20,000.
But after he did the math, he'smaking money on it.
Corey Berrier (51:38):
That's right.
So you've covered all four ofthem with the same process,
correct.
Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Yeah, it's nuts to not do itthat way.
It's nuts, and I've seen salesteams just can't wrap their head
around it and I'm not sure whyyou know what I've done Now with
(52:01):
the technology.
Carl Ippoliti (52:02):
The way it is, I just have an open spreadsheet
and I plug the numbers in and itdoes it for me.
But back in the day I just takea piece of paper out and I
would have them write it down.
Yes, sir the, and I would havethem write it down.
Yes, sir the buyer.
I'd say let's do the mathtogether and let's times this by
this and write that number downfor me.
They write it down and then wedo the next step and write it
down and as they're writing itdown, it's clicking because
(52:26):
they're engaged in the math.
Corey Berrier (52:27):
That's right, a hundred percent and they're part
of the sale.
It's their own.
Yeah, a hundred percent, andthey're part of the sale.
It's their own.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And not to mention there's amassive amount of statistics
behind physically writingsomething down and it's
embedding into your brain andthat connection.
(52:48):
And a hundred percent, yeah, Iagree with you.
Carl Ippoliti (52:51):
You're making yourself accountable.
Yeah, that's right.
Corey Berrier (52:54):
That's right, a hundred percent.
This has been a greatconversation.
I know we're getting close tothe end here.
I think this has been extremelyvaluable from so many different
points of view here.
I think it's really importantthat you talked about the
(53:14):
refrigerant change and whatwe've got coming up with that,
and then I would encouragepeople I'm going to go buy this
book and I'm going to listen toit for sure, because I'm just
very interested in understandingmore about myself and more
about other people and I wouldencourage anybody listening to
this that you should absolutelyespecially if you're in sales or
(53:36):
if you're hell, if you're notin sales and you just want to
have easier conversations youshould go check this book out.
Carl Ippoliti (53:43):
Even if you have kids.
Corey Berrier (53:45):
That's right, because that's a sale.
That's always a sale, somebodyconstantly.
So, carl, if somebody wanted toreach out to you, where would
they do that?
Carl Ippoliti (53:56):
I am on LinkedIn, I am on Facebook, but my email
is cwi at Piercecom and it'sP-E-I-R-C-E.
We spell it not I before E.
So it's cwi at Pierce,p-e-i-r-c-ecom Perfect, and I'd
love that anybody wants to chatabout it.
So it's CWI at Pierce,p-e-i-r-c-e dot com Perfect, and
I'd love that anybody wants tochat about it.
(54:17):
I'd love to serve back and getback to the industry and there's
a real science behind this andI love doing it.
I love playing it.
All the time.
I try to read people'spersonalities and most of the
time I'm right, but there's alot of other ways to learn.
I've said this to you onpersonal conversations that you
and I've had, and I think thiscomes from the book Atomic Habit
(54:40):
.
All you got to do is get 1%better a day and over the course
of the year that's 37% better.
I don't think anyone listeningto this would not want to be 37%
better in anything they do in ayear.
It only takes 1% a day.
And the last thing I'll saybefore we say happy holidays and
(55:01):
Merry Christmas and HappyHanukkah to everybody you can't
take care of the ones you loveif you don't take care of
yourself.
So take care of yourself.
And it's not selfish, so youcan take care of the ones you
love.
Corey Berrier (55:18):
Yeah, I agree, I totally agree.
You can't help anybody else ifyou're not well.
Yeah, carl, I appreciate you.
My friend Really enjoyed theconversation.
Carl Ippoliti (55:29):
Let's rock.
I'll definitely see you inAugust, april, april, april,
that's right, thank you.
Corey Berrier (55:37):
All right.
Welcome to the Successful Life Podcast.
I'm your host, Corey Berrier,and I'm here with our man, Carl
Ippoliti.
I messed it up, didn't I Damnit?
All right?
Well, help me out here,ippoliti, ippoliti, god dang it.
There you go.
Well, don't feel bad, Carl, I Fup Smith sometimes.
Carl Ippoliti (00:25):
Yeah, it's a very common name from my homeland,
yeah, which is where I'm a UScitizen, but my family origin is
obviously Italian.
So there you go.
Corey Berrier (00:38):
Yeah, makes sense .
How's it going, my man?
Carl Ippoliti (00:42):
You know how it's going.
I'm supposed to ask you thathow are you?
Corey Berrier (00:45):
doing today?
I'm doing magnificent.
Carl Ippoliti (00:51):
Unbelievable man.
Corey Berrier (00:52):
I'm going to steal the thunder.
Carl Ippoliti (00:55):
Don't lie to me, man.
In the middle of that word isthe word lie.
So let's try it again.
I'm going to ask you how you'redoing Unbelievable, yeah.
So let's be upbeat because youcan answer it to me in the down,
down and Debbie downer way.
How are you doing today?
Oh, unbelievable.
We all know what that is.
I'm doing unbelievable.
Corey Berrier (01:18):
Unbelievable, love it, and it's interesting
that you mentioned that.
And I and I do want you to telleverybody those that may not
know who you are and what you do, but that downward inflection
is important.
When you're discussing anything, I don't care if it's with your
wife or your child or acustomer or a future customer,
(01:41):
just to that perfect exampleunbelievable or unbelievable,
it's the same exact word, buttwo different tonality.
For sure, inflection means alot 100%, 100%, carl, yeah, give
us a quick rundown, a littlebit about who you are and what
(02:01):
you do and all that good stuff.
Carl Ippoliti (02:03):
Okay, bit about who you are and what you do and
all that good stuff.
Okay, so I've been in the HVACindustry for over 50 years and,
corey, this is when you say,damn, you don't look that old.
Yeah, 51 years, 52 years in theHVAC business from the
contractor side and the last 33years from distribution at
(02:25):
Pierce Phelps or Wasco ondistributor of carrier and
Bryant and a lot of other things, and I'm the director of sales
and marketing for theresidential division.
So I've seen a lot in thisindustry and I got a lot of
experience and some stories.
Corey Berrier (02:44):
I bet you do, I bet you do, I bet you do.
So I must ask.
We are quickly approaching 2025, which is going to be a very
different year for our HVACcontractors.
Can you dive into a little bitabout the refrigerant change and
(03:06):
what either one?
What can people expect andcorrect me if I'm wrong, but my
research shows that prices arenot going down.
No, they're not.
Carl Ippoliti (03:22):
Let me just try to do this quickly.
Back in 1997, there was theMontreal Protocol that said that
the industry not just the HVACindustry but automobiles as well
had to change the refrigerantin the systems because the
refrigerant was harmful to theozone and that was like using
(03:44):
R22, that's a refrigerant.
So the industry had to changeto a non-ozone destroying
refrigerant, which they did.
It was R410 and Carriertrademarked it as Puron.
The nice thing about it thattransition was it was a gradual
transition over a period of time, like from 1997 to 2020, before
(04:05):
R22 was no longer allowed to bemade.
So that was good, that slowtransition.
There was still R22 availableand it made it easy.
This transition is a hard one.
So we healed the ozone with thenew refrigerant back then.
So now what we did was wecaused global warming because
(04:27):
the ozone is now healed.
So there's refrigerants theR410 refrigerant, which is what
everybody uses, and theresidential and commercial side
of equipment.
The industry came back with aminimum global warming
potentiality that refrigerantcan have and all kinds of
(04:48):
science and formulas, and it hasto be lower than 750.
Effective January 1st, twodifferent refrigerants have come
out R32 and R454.
R32 is being manufactured andmade for one brand and they go
by three names and the rest ofthe industry is going with R454.
(05:12):
And at Cary and Bryant we'recalling it Puron Advance.
The global warming potentialityof the one is slightly below
the 750.
And the Puron Advance and theR454 is significantly lower than
the 750.
It's like around 450.
It settles in at and thistransition is a hard stop, like
(05:36):
manufacturers can't make anymore and if it's made before the
end of this year it can stillbe installed.
But manufacturing has to stopright now making it at the end
of the year.
So there's going to be atransition where homeowners are
going to be thinking about whatdo I put in?
R410 units that are made beforethe end of the year can still
(05:58):
be installed.
Those are going to work.
There's going to be R410available.
The refrigerant Not sure of thecost, of what's going to happen
to the cost of it when you havea leak.
And then the R454 and the R32,you can bet your bottom dollar
that the price is going to go up.
So at some point probablyaround March, april, may you're
(06:19):
going to see most distributorsand most brands are going to be
flipping the switch to the newrefrigerant.
Corey Berrier (06:28):
That makes sense.
I thank you for explaining that.
I shouldn't say it makes sense.
What kind of impact?
Because there's got to be amassive training in developing
technicians in a process likethis.
(06:49):
A lot of companies are running.
A lot of companies don't evendo training for whatever reason.
But what happens to those guysand how much training are you
seeing that's going to have togo into these technicians to get
them up to speed with this?
Carl Ippoliti (07:08):
It's not a lot.
This new refrigerant is I'mgoing to do the bunny ear thing
here the quotes that this newrefrigerant is slightly
flammable and there needs to besensors on the evaporator coils
that would sense if any of thatrefrigerant has leaked into the
(07:28):
house and it'll kill the system,turn it off.
So there's sensors that need tobe put in the coils.
Storage is a little differentnow for contractors because of
the slight flammability.
So the irony of that wholething is, you know, people are
like oh, it's flammable.
(07:49):
If you have a gas furnace it isflammable and it's a hell of a
lot more flammable than therefrigerant, and same thing with
LP gas and even oil, if youwant to think about it.
So there's going to be sometraining.
There are going to be somestorage issues.
As far as installation, it'snot that much of a big deal.
(08:11):
You have to put the sensor inif it's not already installed.
It's not that much of a bigdeal in my opinion, right.
Corey Berrier (08:19):
Yeah, I imagine just the talk track around it
too is going to be important fortechnicians to be able to
explain the difference in thetwo.
Track around it too is going tobe important for for
technicians to be able toexplain the difference in the
two and why it's changing, andall that good stuff which also
fall into that training categoryyeah, there's some new tool,
new tools that'll be needed, butokay, it's refrigerant yeah,
(08:41):
yeah, makes sense.
All right, one of the thingsthat I really wanted you to talk
about today.
I don't know if you mentionedthis when we got, when we
started, but you have you hold aFranklin Covey license.
Did I say that right?
Carl Ippoliti (08:56):
I'm certified, instead of having highly
effective people, I really itreally helped save my life and
turn my career around.
I went from probably being avillain in my life to turning
out to be a very good person,and the seven habits of highly
effective people is what didthat for me.
And there's other courses thatI've taken and there's other
(09:20):
learning things I've done andbooks I've read about how to
deal with different personalitytypes.
It's really important not onlyfor you to understand your
personality type, but tounderstand your family, your
loved ones, your friends, theteammates around you for work,
(09:40):
and also from the customer'spoint of view when you're
selling to a customer, and alsofrom the customer's point of
view when you're selling to acustomer, not only should you
understand your personality, youneed to be able to identify the
person that you're having aninteraction with, their
personality type.
That goes a long way because,when it comes down to it,
(10:03):
especially in the HVAC or homeservices, we've all bought
something from somebody that wedidn't like, right.
Yes, unfortunately, but we dolike to buy from people we like
right.
We do like to buy from peoplewe like.
So there's no denying that, andthere's a science behind seeing
the way a personality is, andyou've got to know your
(10:24):
personality right.
So the question is who are you?
And in home sales, what is yourcustomer like?
What are they like?
So years ago I read this bookVersatile Selling by Wilson
Learning, and I learned a lotfrom that book.
(10:45):
People love to buy, right, theylove to buy.
They do.
They just hate being sold.
So this book did a study about2 million people in 40 years and
they did all kinds of researchand they learned that one out of
four people has a social styleor a comfort zone or behavior.
So what that means is roughly25% of the people are like you
(11:10):
and 75% of the people are notlike you.
And why.
I'll ask you why you thinkthat's important.
You got to determine your style.
You got to learn to read theother person's style.
You need to adapt your style tothe customer and then that
(11:31):
creates trust, because thecustomer then feels comfortable
and they're more apt to buy fromyou.
So let's take it why thishappens and how quickly it
happens.
It's all primitive man.
It's all primitive Human beingsare wired.
We're wired to survive, right?
We're wired to respond.
(11:53):
It all goes back to the threatwhen we were facing that
saber-toothed tiger.
So the hypothalamus in thebrain kicks in and it says I'm
either going to fight you, I'mgoing to run from you, or I'm
just going to freeze.
So that's what's taking place.
When you get into that survivalmode, you say to yourself is
(12:16):
this person a threat, a friend,are they like me, are they not
like me?
The minute that startshappening, art rate flutters,
breathing gets a little heavier,adrenaline kicks in, right.
So let's talk about it from thecustomer's point of view.
So, customers, it's all aboutcomfort and trust Right In the
(12:46):
beginning of the sales process,or any relationship for that
matter.
They don't disclose too much inthe beginning of the
relationship, right, they justdon't.
And then what happens next isyou can see their behavior when
you're interacting with somebody, but you'll never really
understand what they're feelingor thinking.
So there's the next problem youhave to face.
Now this is where it getsreally crazy.
So there's a dimension ofasserting yourself, and I'm
(13:10):
going to call this the sellingdimension and there's the other
dimension of the responsivedimension, that's the buying
dimension.
In the beginning of a salesprocess, there's tension.
There's tension Got to makesure you're doing the right
purchase with the right person.
So at the beginning of thesales call there is relationship
(13:31):
tension.
It's guarded, it's primal right.
The customer may not trust you,but in reality they just don't
know you.
So in the beginning there's afear factor.
So let's talk about the sellingdimension or the asserting
dimension, and there's two types.
(13:52):
There's the person that asksquestions when you're in a
selling mode, or tell.
So there's ask seller and atell seller, and nothing's wrong
with either one of them.
I want to be really clear aboutthat.
The issue is if you are one ofthose types, you could be
(14:22):
offending two out of four buyerswith your personality type.
So you may want to ask yourselfwell, how do I know what these
personality types are if I'm aseller?
Here you go.
I'm going to ask you, corey,raise your hand every time you
hit on one of these.
Do you see yourself as speakingdeliberately and pausing much.
Yes, okay, do you see yourself?
Corey Berrier (14:45):
seldom interrupting others.
I'll answer that two ways.
I used to be that way, but Ihave worked really hard to not
do that.
Carl Ippoliti (14:56):
Okay.
Do you use voice for inflection?
I do.
Do you make conditionalstatements?
Corey Berrier (15:05):
As an example.
If this, I'll do that yes.
Carl Ippoliti (15:12):
I try not to Do you bleed back when you're
talking with people.
Corey Berrier (15:19):
I do because I think it's more comforting.
Carl Ippoliti (15:22):
Okay.
So if you were a selling mode,asserting yourself on someone,
right now you're telling me thatyou're an analytical or an
amiable.
Okay, there's two personalitytypes that you could be making
uncomfortable because you'rethat type of person.
Now let's ask another style Areyou when you're asserting
(15:43):
yourself and when you're thattype of person?
Now let's ask another style Areyou, when you're asserting
yourself and when you're selling?
You speak quickly and firmly?
I try not to.
Okay, Do you interrupt others?
Corey Berrier (15:59):
I absolutely try not to do that.
Carl Ippoliti (16:03):
Do you often use your voice for emphasis, like
inflection?
Corey Berrier (16:09):
I do.
Carl Ippoliti (16:12):
Do you lean forward when you're in the sales
process?
Corey Berrier (16:16):
Sometimes, sometimes I lean forward,
sometimes I lean back.
It depends on what part of thesales process.
Carl Ippoliti (16:22):
Okay, that's fair .
So if you're one of those types, you're a driver, expressive
Okay, so the driver expressivewhen they're selling with their
style that they sell and they'retrying to sell to an analytical
or an amiable, there's going tobe uncomfort.
If you're an analytical or anamiable seller and you're
(16:43):
selling to somebody that happensto be a driver or an expressive
, you're going to make them feeluncomfortable.
So let's talk about how we seepeople when they're being sold
or the response they give you.
There's two types.
There's the task response theygive you.
(17:07):
There's two types.
There's the task.
This means they're going togive you a task and it tells you
what personality type they are.
And then there's the people.
So there's a task type andthere's a people type.
Realize that if you are one ofthese types and now I'm going to
ask you, corey, you're now inthe selling mode with me, right,
raise your hand.
If you are one of these types,and now I'm going to ask you,
(17:30):
corey, you're now in the sellingmode with me, right, raise your
hand.
If you're one of these, do youtalk when someone's trying to
sell you, corey?
Do you ask for?
Do you give that person a taskor do you ask for a lot of facts
.
You're the buyer, I'm sellingyou and you're going to respond
to me, are you?
Corey Berrier (17:44):
going to give me a task or are you looking for a
lot of facts?
I'm looking for more facts.
Carl Ippoliti (17:48):
I would say Do you use minimal body gestures to
me?
I'm selling you now.
Corey Berrier (18:00):
I would say minimum, because I don't want
you to, I don't want you, Idon't want to show my hand.
Carl Ippoliti (18:05):
Okay, do you show like a narrow range of emotions
and feelings when someone'strying to sell you something?
Corey Berrier (18:13):
Narrow yes.
Carl Ippoliti (18:15):
Okay, and you probably use minimal facial
expressions, right?
Your face doesn't really revealanything.
I hope not Okay.
Anything, I hope not OK.
So if you're giving me thatread and I'm selling you, you're
telling me you're an analyticalslash driver, one or the other.
So if I recognize that I'mtrying to assert myself on to
(18:36):
you to buy something from me andI'm an amiable or I'm an
expressive, I got to tone itdown.
I have to adapt my style.
So I'm not amiable or I'm anexpressive.
I got to tone it down.
I have to adapt my style so I'mnot making you uncomfortable.
So there's that task orientedperson that's selling and then
there's the task oriented personthat's buying.
So we're talking about thebuyers now, right?
So let's talk about the buyer.
(18:57):
That's people oriented.
They talk about other people alot, right, oh, you know so and
so, oh, you did the job down thestreet, right?
So if you're in the buying modeand you use big body, expansive
posturing and gesturing, like Iam right now, and you show a
(19:21):
broad range of feeling, or youuse varied and a lot of facial
expressions when you're beingsold, I'm picking up on that you
and I'm trying to sell yousomething and you're giving me
that vibe.
Corey Berrier (19:33):
You're definitely an amiable or an expressive, so
you got to figure out whatstyle are you right?
Carl Ippoliti (19:40):
You got to figure out what style are you and then
you got to figure out whatstyle is the buyer.
So let's get in the roots Ready.
You told me who you were.
I knew you were the first timeyou and I talked.
So let's talk about who is ananalytical.
That's someone that focuses onthe facts and logic.
(20:03):
They act when there is a payoffand they know it.
They don't commit too early,Right, they speak slow.
They have an indifferenthandshake.
They ask a lot of questions.
They lean backwards.
They're serious, logical,systematic and thorough.
(20:27):
That is 100% an analyticalperson.
Like an engineer as an example.
Correct, Okay Now.
Do you recall the movie FullMetal Jacket?
Oh yeah, Do you remember thedrill sergeant?
Yes 100 percent a driver.
(20:47):
Without a doubt.
They focus on results, theytake charge, they make quick
decisions, they like to bechallenged, independent, candid,
decisive, practical.
They speak fast, they seekcontrol of the call, they're
opinionated and they'reimpatient.
So if you're dealing withsomebody like that on a sales
(21:10):
call, be prepared.
Here's why I'll give you anexample the driver personality.
If you see their driverpersonality, you better give
them options, you better givethem choices and you better give
them more than three.
So I have to be careful here.
This is for demonstrationpurposes only.
(21:32):
This is not to be seen as agesture that I'm doing on a
video podcast.
The driver personality does notlike to be sold.
The driver personality likes tobe the one making the decision.
So generally in our industry,we show three choices.
Corey Berrier (21:51):
Three Good, better best.
Carl Ippoliti (21:54):
Good, better, best.
So a driver who's one out offour buyers.
If you do this to a driverpersonality one out of four and
you do this to them, you've lostthem.
So now you're already behindthe eight ball with trying to
make a sale because you'vealready made somebody not like
you and not realize you're doingit.
So an HVAC or any home supplyor service that we don't know
(22:16):
what we're buying and there'sthree choices.
We're going to probably throwout the least expensive and then
we're probably going to throwout the most expensive because
we don't know really what we'regetting.
So we're going to sellsomewhere in the middle.
So for those that aren't seeingthe visual, you can imagine
what's happening with my threefingers.
That's what the driver now says.
The driver says you're makingme pick the one in the middle
(22:39):
and I'm not picking that becauseI'm in charge.
That's why you gotta do fourfour feels boxed in right.
Corey Berrier (22:45):
Is that what you say?
He feels like you're boxing himinto that one decision.
Because, yeah, that makes sensecorrect.
Carl Ippoliti (22:52):
So four choices all the time.
The least expensive is thrownout by the driver, the most
expensive is thrown out by thedriver.
Now they feel like they have achoice.
Highly recommend you do thatwith a driver personality.
So let's talk about theammubles, and in my opinion I
have the most trouble withammubles.
I have to adapt my sellingstyle to an ammuble and we all
(23:14):
have them.
You've gone on that call.
Wow, that was a really goodcall, man.
There was a lot of agreement.
The homeowner showed a lot ofsupport.
They communicated with me.
There was a lot of trust felt.
They asked me for my opinion.
What's in your house?
Thank you for coming.
They ask me for my opinion.
What's in your house?
Thank you for coming.
Express a lot of gratitude.
They speak slow, they're vague,they're cooperative, blah, blah
(23:42):
, blah.
And then they don't give youthe order.
The call went great right.
I think they're the hardest tosell to, in my own opinion,
because of my personality type.
I'm a driver and animals tendto take their time.
And then there's the expressiveright, the expressive
personality.
They create excitement, theyshare their ideas, their dreams.
(24:05):
They're motivated, firmhandshake, they're quick,
they're clear, they like to talk, they like to make them.
I want the best.
They make statements like thatI want the best unit out there.
I want the best that can buy.
I'm the glowworm of theneighborhood, so you got to
recognize that.
So if they're inexpressive, soit's just.
The science of this is gets somuch cool.
(24:26):
So think about it now.
The one that is opposite of youand we can't do a chart on the
screen right now, but the onethat's opposite of you that is
the most least like you is theone you're going to have the
biggest trouble with.
So now, your pool of who youcan buy to went from 100% down
to 75%, and you didn't even knowwhat happened, because they're
(24:47):
not comfortable because they'renot comfortable.
There's all kinds of sciencebehind it for the specialty,
like there's different things.
They're going to want differentpersonality types Especially.
Let's do a quiz here.
Let me quiz you.
You ready?
Let's do it this way.
(25:08):
I'll give you the topic andwrite down the four personality
types analytical driver,expressive and amiable.
Corey Berrier (25:23):
Just write them down, you ready.
Carl Ippoliti (25:25):
All right.
So analytical driver,expressive and amiable Okay, if
their specialty, I tell you, istechnical, what do you think
they are All right?
Ask me that one more time.
If they're interacting with youand you're trying to sell to
them and their specialty seemsto be technical and they're
(25:46):
asking you technical stuff, whatdo you think they are
Analytical If they take controlof the call?
What do you think they areAnalytical If they take control
of the call?
What do you think they are?
Expressive Driver Driver.
If they're really social, whatdo you think they are Expressive
If they're supportive?
What do you think they are?
Amiable?
Okay, benefits Ready, here wego, let's test you more.
(26:09):
You're doing really good.
That's 100%, corey, I like thatFor benefits.
And you're trying to sell themon benefits and they ask you how
does that work?
What do you think they are?
Corey Berrier (26:29):
I would think that would be analytical.
Carl Ippoliti (26:32):
Correct, okay, if I say to you what are the
benefits of this equipmentDriver?
If I say to you who else hasthose benefits?
What other brands have thosebenefits?
Expressive, and if I say to youwhy are those benefits
(26:52):
important?
What do you think it is Amiable, right, yeah.
Now, when it comes time to makea decision, you ready, here you
go, corey, you're killing it.
Man, you're eight for eight, myfriend.
Now it's decision time and theyask you for evidence and they
ask you for service.
Who do you think it is?
(27:12):
Driver, not analytical.
They're asking for evidence.
The driver is going to ask youfor options and probabilities
because they want to make thedecision Okay, fair For
testimonies and incentives.
That's an expressive.
The amiable they're going towant to know about guarantees
(27:33):
and insurances.
What's the warranty, what's thelabor protection, that kind of
stuff.
Right Time how they measure youwith time is very important.
The analytical wants you to beaccurate with your time.
The driver says I'm giving you45 minutes and that's what I'm
giving you.
The expressive needs you needto be stimulating.
(27:54):
And the amiable you need to beagreeable.
And they measure youdifferently.
The analytical measures youwith activity.
They give you things to do.
The driver wants results, theexpressive wants applause.
You'll be the only one in theneighborhood with the top of the
line equipment, and this justgoes on and on.
The backup style is good toknow.
(28:14):
When the analytical startsavoiding you, that's their
backup style.
The driver gets autocratic,they'll tell you An expressive
is worse.
They'll attack you and anamiable kind of just like yields
and acquiesces and like ghostsyou and an amiable kind of just
like yields and acquiesces andlike ghosts you.
(28:41):
So the main thing I wanteverybody to take out of this
conversation that we're havingright here is it all starts with
looking in the mirror, beingable to look in the mirror at
yourself to see what personalitytype you are, and then being
able to quickly identify theperson you're selling to.
So in 1940, john Paul Sartrewrote a play called no Exit, and
(29:05):
in this play it's three soulsthat are trapped in the
afterlife in a room with no exit.
So that would be hell, right,sounds like it.
They're stuck in a room andthey're irritating the hell out
of each other because they'retrying to force change onto the
other two people to be more likethem.
So hell isn't the torturechambers that we think it is,
(29:28):
it's just all about wantingpeople to be just like you.
Three out of four aredefinitely not like you.
Now, imagine if you put a mirrornow in this room and that each
one of you can look in themirror and reflect upon
themselves and say what do Ineed to change about myself?
Raising the question like,would I have the humility to be
(29:53):
able to change if given a chance, if I can look in the mirror
and adapt my natural sellingstyle to make the buyer
comfortable?
So then trust gets formed wayeasier.
I'm not telling you to be achameleon.
I'm not telling you to changewho you are.
(30:15):
If you're an expressive, bethat If you're a driver, be that
If you're an analytical, bethat If you're amiable, be that,
all I'm saying is modify yourstyle so the homeowner or the
person you're selling to, oreven your family member or your,
your spouse or a friend or yourteammate, gets more comfortable
(30:37):
with you.
So then trust gets developed.
It takes time, practice, butit's a really cool thing if you
get that book and start tryingto figure out people's
personalities and you can figurethem out pretty quickly.
Corey Berrier (30:51):
And the end result in a sale is that
everybody walks away happy.
You walk away as thesalesperson, happy, the buyer
walks away with the product andthey're happy.
And the quickest way to do thatis the way you're talking about
.
Carl Ippoliti (31:05):
Yeah, it's not anything like shady or anything
like that.
All you're trying to do is tocreate trust and comfort and it
goes back to what I said in thebeginning of a buying process
the process.
There is tension because wedon't want to be sold right.
We like to buy from people welike, and the quickest way to
(31:30):
get that comfort level is tolearn the people's style, your
style.
There's an easy way to take atest, a habit see what kind of
style you are, and we've done itinternally here.
You take the test, you give thetest to your significant other,
you give the test to somebodyyou work with and see if they
(31:53):
see you the way you see yourself.
It's pretty cool experience,especially when you see yourself
a certain way and others don'tsee you that way.
Corey Berrier (32:03):
So that was actually.
I thought about that a secondago.
How many people, as I wastelling you the kind of person
that I am based on yourquestions, did that actually
line up, Because that was myperspective, right?
Did that line up with what youbelieve that I am?
Did I describe myself as youwould describe me, so to speak?
Carl Ippoliti (32:29):
Yeah, yes.
So the trick to this this andhere's where it gets difficult
so you can be a dominant one ofthe four, a dominant personality
like the one of one of the fourand the two that are right next
to you.
There's other personality typesin this quadrant which I can't
do on the screen right now, butyou do have personality traits
(32:51):
similar to that other two out ofthe four.
One is definitely like you, twoout of four is similar like you
, but one out of four isdefinitely opposed to your
personality type.
Yes, you gave off everything.
I thought you were prettyquickly.
(33:11):
But here's the trick Inlong-term relationships you have
a lot of time to really figureout what the person is, what
their responses are, how theyrespond, how you assert yourself
on them.
The problem is in the homesituation.
When you're in the home andyou're making a sale, you only
have maybe 90 minutes.
(33:32):
You're doing the home andyou're making a sale, you only
have maybe 90 minutes.
You're doing the loadcalculation, you're looking at
the ductwork, the electricalpanel, you're trying to sell a
job on the equipment and you gota very little bit of time to
figure out that personalitytrait.
But there's signals that giveit to you quickly if you know
how to see them.
If you know how to see them,the key is being able, once you
(33:54):
see that signal on how to reactto it, what they're going to
want from you An analytical isgoing to say to you what's the
static pressure of this unit,right, they say that to you.
Light bulbs go off.
I know what you are, man.
And if you don't know, theyprobably already know.
They're testing you.
(34:15):
So they just tell them.
I'm gonna look it up right here.
Thank god for these things nowbecause you can look it up and
tell them right away.
The express is going to say Iwant the best one.
That the driver is going totell you.
If, given choices, they'regoing to tell you which one they
want, don't try to push themout of that box.
And the amiable they're goingto tell you if, given choices,
they're going to tell you whichone they want, don't try to push
them out of that box.
And the amiable they're goingto want to know about warranties
(34:37):
and assurances like that andwho else has it, and reviews.
And the minute you starthearing that, you kind of got to
realize who you are.
If I'm a driver which I am andI'm trying to sell to an amiable
.
That's tough, it goes both ways.
I'm trying to sell to anamiable that's tough, it goes
both ways.
I'm going to irritate theamiable, the amiable is going to
irritate me.
So there you go.
(34:57):
I'm now one person down andtrying to make a successful sale
to him.
So I've got to recognize thatpersonality type.
Corey Berrier (35:05):
And the analytical he's looking for.
I'll just use your example.
If he asks about the staticpressure, he wants to know
exactly what that is.
He doesn't want a ballparkRight, because it makes you look
like you don't know what you'retalking about if you give that
guy a ballpark.
Carl Ippoliti (35:21):
No, you'll lose trust, right, I guess somewhere
around 1.25.
Corey Berrier (35:27):
No, they want to know Right.
Carl Ippoliti (35:31):
Anyway, I know it's a science.
It's a fun science to practiceand try to learn it.
But I read you pretty quickly.
Corey Berrier (35:42):
So somebody listening to this conversation
where would you recommend them?
Start to figuring out who theyare and to figure out who other
people are.
What would it be to go readthat with the book you Versatile
Selling, or would it be?
Carl Ippoliti (36:05):
Corey, I'm sure there's a lot of learning
potential and availability outthere on learning social styles
of selling and buying.
I would recommend that.
Do that and don't tell me youdon't have enough time.
We're in our cars a lot driving.
People call that the traveluniversity.
(36:28):
Right, listen to podcasts likeyours that you have and listen,
go on youtube and just startdigging in and looking and learn
how to read personality stylesin a selling situation.
I don't care which one you'redoing.
It doesn't have to be that bookit could be any resource but
(36:50):
first learn what you are andthen identify how others are and
then practice it.
Corey Berrier (36:59):
And will that book give you an idea of who you
are based on the content?
Okay, yes, yes, interesting.
Yeah, I could see how thiscould be a downfall, for sure
when people don't know, and thena massive benefit if they do
know.
Carl Ippoliti (37:20):
It's a massive benefit if they do know.
And it's a massive benefit ifyou can start to identify what
others are saying to you is whenyou're in that situation and
you have 90 minutes insomebody's home, if you can
quickly identify thatpersonality style, then you can
quickly adapt your assertiveness, your selling style to make
(37:45):
that homeowner more comfortable.
If I go to somebody's house andI go in and they say you have 45
minutes and I say I really need90 minutes to do a really
thorough evaluation so you getthe proper equipment, I do the
right sizing, and they say no,45 minutes.
Right there, they're a driver,right, you better be prepared to
(38:07):
offer choices, right?
If I walk in there and I say Ineed 90 minutes and they say
obviously your CSR should havealready prompted that.
But if they say I need 90minutes and the buyer says oh,
I'm good, you need more time,take more time, well, right
(38:27):
there it starts to tell methat's probably an amulet or it
could be an expressive.
But then start to see how theyreact with you.
Next they start asking youquestions.
A piece of paper out withtablet with notes already down
that's probably analytical,probably.
Corey Berrier (38:45):
Yeah, are there certain?
And it's not to trick anybody,but are there certain questions?
I guess that you could ask todraw out some language that
would give you an idea of wherethat person is.
Carl Ippoliti (39:03):
I think the most powerful you know.
There's a list of questionswhat could I?
How could I help you with yourcomfort?
How can I help you with yourcomfort?
How could I help you with yourefficiency?
How could I help you with yourutility bill?
But the biggest question I liketo ask, because the beginning of
(39:25):
the sales process people don'tdivulge right, they don't tell
you what the real reason forbuying is.
So you go through the normalask of questions what do you
like least to best those kind ofquestions.
But the best question for me isand I always do it if I could
give you a magic wand and Ihanded it to you and you could
(39:47):
fix one thing or change onething about your heating and air
conditioning system, what wouldit be?
That kind of reveals a lot atthat point.
If you could change one thing,what would it be with a magic
wand?
If they say I'd like my utilitybill to go down, okay, you're
(40:13):
probably an analytical or driver.
If they say I just want that, Iwant the best, most efficient
system out there, probably anexpressive.
So there's.
I like that question at somepoint in the sales process.
What if I could give you amagic wand and fix one thing or
change one thing for you.
What would it be?
Corey Berrier (40:30):
One question that's always bothered me is
what do you like about yourcurrent system?
In my opinion, they haven'treally thought about what they
like.
They just know the damn thing'snot working Right.
They don't really.
I just that question.
I just don't understand.
It just seems like a reallywide open question that is not
(40:53):
super valuable, because I justdon't know that you're going to
get the answer you're lookingfor.
But what you're asking is weknow the magic wand question.
Now it gives them anopportunity to imagine and that
makes complete sense.
Carl Ippoliti (41:09):
Another one I think is a very good question is
what is your criteria for this?
Purchase Makes sense, and theymay not even know because
they've only bought maybe none.
Now they're going to buy theirfirst time.
It's not like buying a car,where they bought cars already
and bought more than one car intheir life.
(41:29):
They probably only buy one ortwo hvac systems.
But what?
What is your criteria?
Corey Berrier (41:39):
hmm, that makes sense.
And if they go lower the bill?
Now you understand what theyare.
If they say my bedroom's hotand my wife gets on my ass about
it, but then that's a wholedifferent.
But it opens the door for themto tell you what the pain point
is.
Carl Ippoliti (41:56):
Exactly that's the whole point.
In one of my classes I talkabout peeling away the onion to
really get down to what it isthat's really bothering them,
and sometimes they don't divulgethat early in the sales process
.
Corey Berrier (42:11):
Most of the time they don't actually no they
don't divulge that early in thesales process.
Carl Ippoliti (42:13):
Most of the time they don't actually.
No, they don't, but part ofit's what you said.
They don't really know why theythink they need a new system.
Usually they think they need anew system when it dies, but
right now, with thisrefrigeration change and on a
service call, there's going tobe a lot to talk about in the
middle of this upcoming yearwhen the R410 equipment
(42:36):
availability is slowlydiminished.
And if you're a homeowner, yougot to say do I want to buy the
new one or do I want to go withthe one?
That's been consistent for thelast 27 years.
It's the contractor.
He's got a sales consultant,they got to figure out the best
(43:01):
way and they got to see whattheir supplier actually still
has in stock.
It's going to be chaos.
We're in a zone of disruptionright now.
Yeah, sorry about that.
Corey Berrier (43:12):
Yeah, yeah, and without having good training and
understanding how to navigatethis, it is going to be a
problem for sure.
Yeah, I think the industry as awhole is in for it's going to
(43:33):
be a it may be a rough year.
It may be a rough year.
When this happened the lasttime, since you've been in the
business for 140 years, what didyou see was the biggest?
What did you see was thebiggest the biggest problem when
(43:56):
this change happened last time?
Carl Ippoliti (43:58):
I loved it you loved it, I loved it.
Okay.
So let's talk about thetimeline of the hvac industry.
Back in the day I can'tremember what year it was, but
we from we went up to 80% AFU,so it was lower than that.
And then we went to 10 C forthose listening seasonal energy
(44:22):
efficiency of the outdoor unit.
And then we went a few yearsand then we went up to minimum
standard and the minimumstandard for heating is still
80%, by the way.
But then we went on the SEERrating.
We went from 10 to 13.
And that change was moredisruptive than the refrigerant
(44:45):
because the units all got biggerand everybody freaked out.
And then the refrigerant changecame and it was ozone friendly,
it was easy.
It was easy, and thecontractors.
It was more money, but thecontractors adapted quickly and
(45:08):
we loved it because homeownerswere buying up pretty fast when
we changed the refrigerant.
And then the C-rays got raisedagain, and raised again, and now
the refrigerant's being changedout.
I'm sure in another couple ofyears and I hope it doesn't
happen minimum gas efficiencymay go up to above 80%, and
(45:30):
that's going to be a nightmare.
That will be a nightmare above80%, and that's going to be a
nightmare.
That will be a nightmare, butsometimes change is progress.
Right, and I think this isprogress.
We're saving, helping save theenvironment.
People are getting a globalwarming potentiality in check
and the ozone has been somewhathealed.
(45:51):
It's a good story to tell, butR410, if you buy a system now
with R410 and you have itmaintained and serviced properly
, it should last you 20 years.
And the R454, same thing lasts20 years.
So this next year is going tobe homeowners.
(46:13):
Got more of a choice now.
Makes sense, makes sense Makessense.
Corey Berrier (46:21):
So this will be probably a difficult question
because you have so muchinformation.
But if you were just ahomeowner, what decision would
you make?
Would you stay with the R410 orwould you go with the new
product?
Carl Ippoliti (46:38):
It would depend on the price, of the retail
price.
I would want to know.
If I'm selling to somebody andthey're asking me, I'd ask how
long do you plan on staying inthis house?
You plan on staying in thishouse and I think that the
(47:01):
easiest way to sell HVAC andthis is crazy how simple it is
the homeowner you give them theresources where it says an HVAC
system should last you 15 to 20years if maintained properly.
Okay, so let's just use the 15years.
If you take 15 years times 365days, I think that's 5,450 days,
(47:21):
okay.
Okay.
If you take 5,450 days anddivide that, let's say it's
$5,450, right, the difference inthe two systems.
If you take $5,450 and divideit by 5,450 days, that's a
dollar a day.
(47:42):
But the better equipmentefficiency-wise and I'm not
talking about the refrigerant,the efficiency-wise is going to
save you money.
So if it saves you $300 a yearI don't know you do the math 365
days divided by $300, I don'tknow like 75 cents, 80 cents.
(48:04):
So the better system that's gotvariable speed and higher
efficiency, that's going to costyou a dollar a day, is giving
you back a return on yourinvestment of 80 cents a day.
So the better system is nowreally only costing you 20
dollar a day.
It's giving you back a returnon your investment of 80 cents a
day.
So the better system is nowreally only costing you 20 cents
a day, like it's a no brainer.
(48:24):
It's a no brainer when you talkabout how much is it per day.
People look at this number atthe end of the quote and they
say the difference between a 14SEER and a 17.5-seer is $5,450.
Okay, it's a dollar a day, butit's saving you 75 cents 80
cents a day.
(48:44):
So the better system is onlycosting you 15 cents a day.
You tell me I don't know whatyour convenience stores are down
in North Carolina where youlive, but up in Pennsylvania
there's a war between sheets andblah, blah, blah.
You think about how many timesa consumer goes into those
convenience stores and spends 10bucks, because that's the
(49:06):
average of what a homeownerspends per day in one of those
fast convenience stores.
They spend $10 a day.
Not even thinking about it.
Corey Berrier (49:16):
That's a really good point.
Carl Ippoliti (49:18):
You know where I saw that.
It hit me years ago.
I was driving back on theturnpike and I saw a billboard
and it said this billboard onlycosts you X per day.
I'm like wow, when you reallystart looking at it per day,
it's so much easier to sell aheating and air conditioning
system and upgrading it to thehomeowner if you just narrow it
(49:40):
down to the cost per day.
Corey Berrier (49:45):
Yeah, because most people are going to your
point.
Most people are going to Wawaor they're going through
Starbucks and they're spendingexactly around $10 every day to
do either one of those things.
Carl Ippoliti (49:58):
So I know when I was in sales that's what I would
do.
I would like it's per day.
What's it going to cost you perday?
Corey Berrier (50:04):
Yeah, and if you do the math and you walk it back
to your point with the rebatesand with all the things, if you
know how to do that and I'm sureall of your people do know how
to do that it makes that numbervery obtainable, even though the
bigger number is what you'resigning the check for or the
(50:26):
financing for.
But if you break it down, likeI said, with the rebates and
with the energy savings and….
Carl Ippoliti (50:33):
Tax credits.
Corey Berrier (50:35):
Yeah, you're looking at four or five thousand
dollars over the next 10 yearsI didn't even equate that into
those numbers just now so thenit's really a no-brainer if you
know how to do that and somepeople don't, but it's.
It makes it very simple for thehomeowner to make a decision.
Carl Ippoliti (50:59):
If you present that to an analytical, it's a
done deal.
Man.
If you say to the driverpersonality you want me to show
you how you can get a return onyour investment and after I show
you you can make a decision,that now puts it back into their
hands that they're the boss,you give it to the amulet and
they're like wow, I feel reallywarm and fuzzy because you just
(51:20):
showed me how this is going tosave me money and actually make
me money.
When you throw in the rebatesand all that stuff like you just
mentioned, and the expressive,he's at the local barbecue
boasting about how the system hejust bought was like $18,000,
$20,000.
But after he did the math, he'smaking money on it.
Corey Berrier (51:38):
That's right.
So you've covered all four ofthem with the same process,
correct.
Yeah, that makes complete sense.
Yeah, it's nuts to not do itthat way.
It's nuts, and I've seen salesteams just can't wrap their head
around it and I'm not sure whyyou know what I've done Now with
(52:01):
the technology.
Carl Ippoliti (52:02):
The way it is, I just have an open spreadsheet
and I plug the numbers in and itdoes it for me.
But back in the day I just takea piece of paper out and I
would have them write it down.
Yes, sir the, and I would havethem write it down.
Yes, sir the buyer.
I'd say let's do the mathtogether and let's times this by
this and write that number downfor me.
They write it down and then wedo the next step and write it
down and as they're writing itdown, it's clicking because
(52:26):
they're engaged in the math.
Corey Berrier (52:27):
That's right, a hundred percent and they're part
of the sale.
It's their own.
Yeah, a hundred percent, andthey're part of the sale.
It's their own.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
And not to mention there's amassive amount of statistics
behind physically writingsomething down and it's
embedding into your brain andthat connection.
(52:48):
And a hundred percent, yeah, Iagree with you.
Carl Ippoliti (52:51):
You're making yourself accountable.
Yeah, that's right.
Corey Berrier (52:54):
That's right, a hundred percent.
This has been a greatconversation.
I know we're getting close tothe end here.
I think this has been extremelyvaluable from so many different
points of view here.
I think it's really importantthat you talked about the
(53:14):
refrigerant change and whatwe've got coming up with that,
and then I would encouragepeople I'm going to go buy this
book and I'm going to listen toit for sure, because I'm just
very interested in understandingmore about myself and more
about other people and I wouldencourage anybody listening to
this that you should absolutelyespecially if you're in sales or
(53:36):
if you're hell, if you're notin sales and you just want to
have easier conversations youshould go check this book out.
Carl Ippoliti (53:43):
Even if you have kids.
Corey Berrier (53:45):
That's right, because that's a sale.
That's always a sale, somebodyconstantly.
So, carl, if somebody wanted toreach out to you, where would
they do that?
Carl Ippoliti (53:56):
I am on LinkedIn, I am on Facebook, but my email
is cwi at Piercecom and it'sP-E-I-R-C-E.
We spell it not I before E.
So it's cwi at Pierce,p-e-i-r-c-ecom Perfect, and I'd
love that anybody wants to chatabout it.
So it's CWI at Pierce,p-e-i-r-c-e dot com Perfect, and
I'd love that anybody wants tochat about it.
(54:17):
I'd love to serve back and getback to the industry and there's
a real science behind this andI love doing it.
I love playing it.
All the time.
I try to read people'spersonalities and most of the
time I'm right, but there's alot of other ways to learn.
I've said this to you onpersonal conversations that you
and I've had, and I think thiscomes from the book Atomic Habit
(54:40):
.
All you got to do is get 1%better a day and over the course
of the year that's 37% better.
I don't think anyone listeningto this would not want to be 37%
better in anything they do in ayear.
It only takes 1% a day.
And the last thing I'll saybefore we say happy holidays and
(55:01):
Merry Christmas and HappyHanukkah to everybody you can't
take care of the ones you loveif you don't take care of
yourself.
So take care of yourself.
And it's not selfish, so youcan take care of the ones you
love.
Corey Berrier (55:18):
Yeah, I agree, I totally agree.
You can't help anybody else ifyou're not well.
Yeah, carl, I appreciate you.
My friend Really enjoyed theconversation.
Carl Ippoliti (55:29):
Let's rock.
I'll definitely see you inAugust, april, april, april,
that's right, thank you.
Corey Berrier (55:37):
All right.
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