Apartment Syndication Made Easy | Surviving the New Real Estate Cycle with Nic Mcgrue

In this power-packed episode of Apartment Syndication Made Easy, we’re joined by the brilliant Nic McGrue, founder of Polymath Legal and seasoned SEC attorney. With over $500 million in real estate transactions supported under his belt, Nic breaks down exactly how syndicators can still thrive—even as interest rates climb, lenders tighten up, and deals get harder to structure.

 

We cover the evolving landscape of real estate syndication in today’s economy, including:

👉🏻 Why the market won’t save mediocre operators anymore

👉🏻 What every syndicator should be doing with their lenders right now

👉🏻 How predatory lending practices are creeping in under the radar

👉🏻 The case for updating (or testing) accredited investor rules

 

If you’re an operator, capital raiser, or aspiring investor, this episode is a must-listen. Nic’s advice could save you from unnecessary defaults—and help you future-proof your deals in this tighter economy. Vinney and Nic bring energy, clarity, and actionable legal wisdom to the table. Tune in to gain insights that can help you protect your assets and grow your portfolio the right way.

 

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TIMESTAMP:

 

00:00:00 Introduction and Warm Welcome

00:01:30 State of Multifamily Market

00:02:30 SEC Rules and Accredited Investor Updates

00:04:30 Why an Investor Knowledge Test Makes Sense

00:06:00 Vinney’s Books and Positive Mindset

00:07:30 Investment Access and Wealth Gap Concerns

00:09:00 Key Advice for New Syndicators

00:10:30 Lender Relationships and Technical Defaults

00:12:00 How to Connect with Nic McGrue

00:12:45 Closing Remarks and Reviews Request

 

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Episode Transcript

(01:07):
Hi guys.
Vinney Chopra here.
You know what?
Back at you again.
Thank you for making our podcastapartment syndication made easy,
number one, number 11 out of top 50.
Top 90.
It's fabulous.
I know another post came withthe some other group and they
said, Vinney, you are at number.
You know even higher thanthat, but thank you so much.

(01:29):
I've got a great friend,Nic Vinney is in the house.
If you could just Google Nic Vinney,SCC attorney, polymath Capital,
you'll come to that and we have donemany syndications together, Nic.
Yes.
Maybe nine.
Nine or 11 maybe.
I'm thinking and quite a bit.
Yeah,
Yeah.
Welcome,
welcome.
Hey, good
to be with you as always, Vinney.

(01:50):
Always love it.
Vinney smile that you liveup to your name, always.
And I'm someone who smiles alot too, so I can appreciate it.
I love
that.
I love that both of us are just smilingbuddies, let's just talk about, I know
the multifamily has gone little bitsideways and because of the interest
rates, hikes and insurance cost andproperty taxes, all those things and SEC

(02:14):
rules have not really altered that much.
But I thought it'll be good to talkabout syndication funds struck.
Cheer, fund of the fund, things like that,
yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
The exempt securities market,especially in the multifamily space,
definitely is a much slower thanit was two or three years ago.
Yeah.
It's a lot.
You've gotta be a muchmore skilled operator.

(02:35):
A few years ago the market would saveyou even if you weren't that great.
Now you've gotta go in with goodassumptions and then work you behind
off to make sure you meet them.
'cause again, it's still doable andpeople are still making money, but
it's not just being handed to youlike it was two or three years ago.
So
true, so true.
Let me ask you a question.
Any changes that the SEC has madelately, like in 24, 25, I know

(03:00):
with the accredited investors,lot more money monies raised with
accredited investors, almost how many?
34 million, I think, accreditedinvestors in USA alone.
And then of course the retirementfunds are way up there, 36 trillion.
Yeah, so far I haven'tseen a whole lot of change.

(03:22):
I know a couple years ago theSECA lot of people got scared
because they didn't read the end.
The SEC put out like 120 page thingthat said, we're thinking about changing
the definition of accredited investors.
This definition came outin like the eighties.
And in the eighties, $200,000was like a lot of money.
Now $200,000 is still definitely agood amount of money, but a lot of

(03:43):
people with just regular type jobscan get that much or close to it.
And so in that that notice they'resaying, yeah, we're thinking about
maybe changing this 'cause ithasn't been adjusted for inflation.
And before, there's not manypeople that made $200,000 or 300.
Now there's a goodamount of people that do.
And so they were talkingabout changing it.
And so I remember when thatcame out, a lot of people were

(04:03):
like, I just got accredited.
Now they're gonna make it higher.
What's going on?
That's not fair.
And I said, calm down.
Calm down.
It is, it was crazy.
They did this whole thing goingthrough the history, talking about
how they, what they're thinking about,that they might wanna change it.
And then at the end they'relike, so that's our thoughts.
You tell us your thoughts.
And so they're basically saying, Hey,here's what we're thinking about, but
let us know what your thoughts are.

(04:25):
But they weren't sayingthey're gonna change it.
And I haven't seen any traction on that.
And interestingly enough, around thatsame time, shortly after I believe it
was the house in Congress actually passedsomething that essentially said that
you could take an exam to be accredited.
So you had.
On one hand, the SEC is saying, oh,we're thinking about maybe making it
more difficult, increasing the income.

(04:45):
And then on the other hand, youhad the house saying we're actually
thinking maybe we just do a test.
Neither of those have gottena whole lot of traction.
I do the house method of atest because if about why?
Yeah, at least for the most part,why we, they have the distinction
of accredited investor versus non.
And so they're essentially saying,we don't want people investing in
things and losing money that theydon't have the ability to lose.

(05:09):
Whereas if you have a test that cancheck your how financially savvy you
are it's your money if you're gonna makebad investments informed and knowingly.
That's your prerogativeto do is my po position.
Obviously, I don't wantpeople making bad investments.
No, I hope you're not investingregardless of how savvy you are.
I hope you're not investing dollarsthat you can't afford to lose.
But I think a test is.

(05:31):
Goes more towards achieving thegoal of making sure we're not having
people make uninformed investmentsbecause I know lots of very wealthy
people that are maybe not the mostfinancially savvy, so Totally, so true.
So I think testing to see do theyactually understand the risks involved
and understand how to vet these things.
I think that's a better barometerversus just you had a job or

(05:51):
maybe you made one investment thatrandomly panned out and now you're
accredited, but not necessarily.
Educated enough to protectyourself, whereas at test True.
To make sure that yeah,you have the education and
knowledge to protect yourself.
Hi friends, this is Vinny Choprafrom here in Danville, California,
and you might be saying, Hey,Vinny, what are these over here?

(06:12):
You know, I wrote this book a fewyears back, Apartment Syndication
Made Easy, it became top seller.
I came from India with 7 in my pocket.
It says 500 million.
It's going to be 1 billionvery soon, very soon.
I'm right at about 850, 900 million.
It's And then I'm readyfor the next billion.

(06:32):
Actually, you will see thathappening two billion in this book.
Also, the other book I wrote,which has been a very big
positivity has been my life.
Always, always.
I've been married 43years with two children.
And the beauty is to be positive.
The mindset that can take youto all the places in the world.
And that's the book that also.

(06:54):
Became big, big seller.
My third book, SeniorAssisted Living is coming.
So do yourself a favor, go aheadand click the link below to get free
copies, audio copies of these books,even printed copies of these books.
If you, I'm a print in meansdigital, if you can't afford it,
but I would highly recommend foryou to get these or go to amazon.

(07:16):
com.
Just go to Amazon.
I got it in soft cover and hard cover.
In Kindle, in audio, alsothe Spanish version of this.
Oh, this book also.
So let's crush it, guys.
I know you can be successful.
I know you can do the kind of thingsthat you want to do in life and have
the streams of income and know how toreally, you know, educate yourself so

(07:40):
that you could become a strong, strongforce in this world in real estate.
I know you can.
So take that step.
Don't just be on the sideline.
Take charge of your life.
Take charge of your education.
And there's so much information toreally educate yourself, through ai,
through, all these videos, others,AI is whole meatball game, all those

(08:02):
things, yeah, everything is so important.
The big thing I see Nic alsois that, oh, I don't think my
daughter is coming in there.
Yeah.
So true.
But I think.
Like stock market, nobodyhas to take a test.
They just get, and they, losemoney overnight sometime.
Bad investments happen so that,sophisticated investors, if they are

(08:25):
not, or precluded not involved intogood syndications, they lose out.
Yeah.
That's the other side of it.
Only accredited investors, wealthypeople with high net worth get to.
Those great returns.
Yeah.
Which savvy, syndicators andfund managers are able to do.
That's right.
That's, yeah.

(08:45):
I hadn't
even mentioned that.
Yeah, that's a great point.
'cause yeah, if we make it to whereonly wealthy people can invest in these
deals that are given you 15, 20% andif you're not wealthy, you can invest
in the stock market and get seven.
Yes.
That we're just making that gap higher.
Yeah.
We so true.
A test so true.
Could give the protection whilealso, like you said, allowing
those people that may not be.
It's high income earn are high net worth,but they understand what they're doing.

(09:08):
It allows them to get intoinvestments that have the potential
for much better returns as well.
Much better, yes.
Any other big tips you would liketo say to some new investors?
New syndicators, what to watch
out?
Yeah.
Kind of for, so for new operators, newsyndicators, I'd say really you have
a good relationship with your lender.

(09:29):
And talk with them regularly,particularly in this it's market cycle.
One thing that I'm seeing a lot is.
That we're having rates expireor rate locks end, or even
sometimes the actual debt itself.
A lot of times these deals,it's three to seven years of
debt and usually five years.
Yeah.
And so we're seeing alot of that debt expire.
And so having a good relationship withyour lender, one can help it to where

(09:53):
you're, when that's expiring, you're.
Already negotiating whatthese new terms are.
Yes.
Another thing, having that having thatrelationship can help you when there
are tough times or even maybe notthe toughest times because one thing
that I have seen that's unfortunate.
And this is somewhat speculationas to the reason why.
But I've seen a lot of lenders, not alot more than you would expect putting

(10:14):
operators in technical default, sayingyou're paying your monthly payment,
but yes you are supposed to, paintthe garage doors and you haven't
painted them yet, so you're in default.
Oh, yeah.
Or we expect, $500,000 in reserves andyou've got 450, so you're in default.
Yes.
Things to where it's okay, yeah,technically we are maybe not be following
exactly to a T what our contract says,but you're still getting your money every

(10:36):
month lender and the asset's doing fine.
But my speculation is thatthey're saying you know what?
I lent this money out.
At three or 4%.
Whereas if I make them refinanceor if I get this money back, I
can lend it out at seven or 8%.
Today's raise.
And so I'm seeing a lot of situationswhere people are actually being able to.
Pay their monthly payments andstill having the lender come

(10:58):
at them for default and wow.
Have a lockbox on it.
Sometimes they're doing receivershipsor offers for cash, for keys,
very various things like that.
Again, when we have an asset thatactually is operating and it's fairly
healthy, just a few things are alittle tough because everything
in this market is tough right now.
It's, but lenders are in my opinion,sometimes taking advantage of that.

(11:18):
So I'd say.
Have good relationships with bothyour lender and also other lenders.
So that way if you do find yourselfin a bind, whether it's a traditional
lender or maybe a fund that can be rescuecapital, just so that you have options.
'cause Yeah, we're I still thinksyndication is a great way to build
wealth, A great way to allow otherpeople to build wealth as well.
Yep.
But the market cycle we're in makesit a little bit more difficult

(11:41):
than it was, five years ago.
So true.
Okay guys, you heard that?
That's from the specialist.
Nic Vinney, my good friend.
How can people reach you today?
Yeah.
Would definitely love to reach outor have hear from all your people.
So you can find me on social media.
It's at Nic, the lawyer, N.I.C the lawyer.
Or you can also go to the website.
It's polymath legal, sowww.polymathlegal.com.

(12:06):
So Polymath legal.com whether you find meon socials or on the website reach out.
If you go to the website,it has our phone number.
You can message us directlyand you can schedule directly.
If you go on the socials, emailme or DM me and I'll DM you back.
Oh wonderful.
Nic, thank you so muchfor coming on the show.
I really appreciate that.
Good luck to you.

(12:27):
Thanks for having as always,
happy to be back
whenever you
give the
call.
Oh, thank you so much.
Take care and we'll see you again.
Alright, thank you Nic.
Thank you so much.
Dear friends, this is Vinney Smile Chopra.
I am so glad you'relistening to the episode.
Thanks so much.
Really appreciate that.
Please share it with otherswho can really benefit also.

(12:47):
Can I ask you a favor?
Just a small favor, less than a minute.
If you could give five star reviews oniTune or Stitcher, that'll go a long way.
We have one of the top podcasts inreal estate now in the nation, but
it'll really help a lot if you gavefive star reviews and we'll bring
lot more great content for you.
Thank you so much.

(13:08):
Appreciate that and seeyou in the next episode.
God bless you.
Bye-bye.