April 22, 2025 • 21 mins
This is a question that’s come up for almost everyone at some point in their career, especially as the lines between agents and managers get more and more blurred. We're here to break it down for you.
By the end of this episode, you’ll have a solid understanding of the key differences between agents and managers, and how each of us plays a unique part in your career. In this video, talent agent Anthony Boyer and talent manager Jess Canty break down the key differences between a talent agent and a talent manager, offering essential insights for aspiring actors and those looking to break into the entertainment industry.
If you're early in your career and unsure about who does what, this video will clarify the roles of agents and managers, from securing auditions to managing long-term career strategy. Learn how these two professionals collaborate to build a successful career for actors, and discover how to create the best team for your journey in the industry.
Want to watch this episode - find it on the Take Fountain YouTube Channel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello from Hollywood.
My name is Anthony Boyer.
I've been a talent agent in Los Angeles
for the last 15 years, and today I'm gonna take Fountain.
We're gonna talk about the differences
between a talent agent and a talent manager.
Here to help me with this week's video is my good friend
talent manager extraordinaire
with Sentara Entertainment. Jess Canty.
(00:22):
Thank you. Hi, how you doing?
I'm great. So what you, what people don't know is
that every episode we've done,
you've been sitting right over there.
I have been, uh, cracking the whip.
I have been, I I have been managing the videos. Yeah,
That's really true. But
I'm glad to be, I'm glad to be on this side of camera
with this one especially,
And we're gonna pull you in a
little bit more moving forward.
(00:43):
Uh, we just wanted to establish this beautiful face first.
It's called branding. Look it up.
Um, so today we're talking about the differences
and similarities between talent agents, which is what I do
for a living and talent managers,
which presumably is what you do
for a living. Yes. Would you
Disagree? Yes. That is
what I do for a living.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I think the first thing
(01:03):
to talk about is like to define roles, right?
Um, presuming that you have both an agent
and a manager on the team because not everyone does.
Mm-Hmm. Um, and there's a lot of crossover between our jobs
because some people only have one or the other.
Right. And I think this is, you know,
how we see the ideal working relationship
with an agent and a manager.
(01:25):
Yeah. This is, I mean, I think it's why we've been able
to work together so well.
Um, but I guess the caveat being that
not every agent is necessarily gonna see
this relationship the way we do.
Not every manager is gonna see their role exactly the way we
see it, but we just know how successful we've been able
to be together for the clients we share.
(01:46):
Yeah. And in our relationships, my relationships with agents
and yours, with other managers.
And so that's sort of how we're gonna be talking about that.
Yeah. And I think it's important for the actors
to help define the roles of their team also,
because ultimately you are the CEO of your own company
and we are on your team,
(02:08):
but ultimately you are running your team for an agent.
Uh, typically our primary job is
to find work opportunities for an actor.
Um, by securing auditions, we, at which point, you know,
you will go and audition and,
and hopefully book the job,
at which point we will negotiate a contract.
Usually if there's a lawyer on the team,
(02:28):
that can be a little bit different.
Um, and then once the contract is signed, we help make sure
that the terms of that contract are enforced.
That's kind of, it is the process of finding, securing
and protecting us an individual sale.
Uh, whereas for a manager, wouldn't you say it's a bit
of a more macro focus?
I, yeah, I think that's a really good way
(02:48):
of separating the two.
And you know, in the context of you are the CEO
of your acting business, we really see the agent
as the VP of sales,
whereas your manager ideally should be kind
of like your chief operating officer.
And that's really how I see my role within the team is that,
you know, my primary job actually is not to find work right.
(03:12):
For my actors. Now, if I have an actor
that doesn't have an agent
or a great agent like Anthony,
of course I'm gonna be helping with that.
But once we have someone on the team, assuming
that you have a manager before you have an agent,
once I have someone on the team, I'm actually happy to turn
that responsibility over primarily to the agent
(03:34):
and move more into that operational support.
So what does that look like?
That is overall strategy for your career.
Anthony brings two
or three opportunities, maybe two
of them conflict with each other.
He just wants to know which ones you're,
which ones you're gonna audition for.
The conversation about the strategy around which ones
(03:56):
and what you wanna do and what's better
for the direction you're going.
That is gonna fall with me, the manager branding, for lack
of a better word, right?
Your photos, your reels, what's up on
what casting service.
Um, you know, do you need new photos?
Do you need to cut new clips from something?
(04:17):
All of that really falls under sort of the operations part
of being a manager so that Anthony can go do his job
as your VP of sales.
Um, and our conversations really are around, Hey,
do you have everything you need?
If, how is it out there when you're talking
to casting about a client that we share?
(04:39):
You know, is there something that you're missing?
Is there a segment of the market that you think
that they could go into if they had, you know, a clip
of them doing something funny or whatever that is.
So managers, I really see as, like we were saying sort
of the macro, the overall strategy, the branding,
(05:00):
and helping to make Anthony, you know,
whoever your agent's life is easier.
That's really how I see, well,
Not just the agent, but the managing the entire team.
Yes. Really. Yeah. If there's an attorney,
if there's a publicist, the headshot photographer, all
of those pieces are really under the purview of the manager.
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to that point,
(05:20):
let's say you have a commercial agent
that's at a different agency than your
theatrical agent, right?
And so the coordination
and the communication between those two companies, again,
if you have multiple opportunities
and you kind of have to decide between them,
ideally your manager should be talking through that with you
and you should be talking through
(05:41):
those things with your manager.
And then they're gonna help facilitate maybe saying
to the theatrical agent, like, Hey,
they're gonna pass on this CoStar
because they're down the road on this national commercial
and it's gonna make their health insurance or whatever.
So we're there to facilitate kind
of the tough conversations with your reps too. And
(06:02):
I think it's helpful when you hear that, to think
of the inverse if you don't have a manager, right?
It's sort of incumbent on you to lead those conversations
and those discussions, which can be a little uncomfortable
because some agents get territorial Mm-Hmm.
Um, they want you available for their projects.
They're not thinking about the long-term career vision,
which is really a manager's forte.
(06:22):
Yeah. Um, in most cases, yeah.
Some managers do operate a little more like agents.
I find my most successful collaborations are with people who
I think take that sort of career focused approach.
And let me just get into the day
of day, day to day of selling
And selling. Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Well, and I think that's, you know,
that's something when you're thinking about putting your
(06:43):
team together, you know, when you have that initial meeting,
learning where, how your manager comes into managing,
because like you said, there are quite a few people
who start in the agency world
and decide to move to management.
And sometimes they decide to move to management
because they actually don't like the hyper focus
of a selling, and they wanna be involved in this sort
(07:05):
of more career focused brand, you know, overall thing.
And sometimes they move into management
and they sort of still have the, the agency mentality.
And we're not saying that, that
that person can't be effective for you at all,
but you just should know what style of management
that you're bringing on your team.
(07:26):
And to your point about sort of
putting the whole team together, you know, I think
a manager, like you said, is gonna be the person
that is gonna tell you when it's time to bring on a lawyer
when you maybe need to have a publicist.
It's not that the, your agent won't be involved in
that conversation, but that should start between you
(07:47):
and your manager, assuming you have both.
Yeah. And I, I find a lot of times, um,
I will have the conversation with the manager
and be like, Hey, listen, I think
this is a pretty big opportunity.
Maybe it's time to bring a publicist on
and kind of just wind you up
and set you off on a path so that you can go
and have that conversation and sort of run
that right project, if you will.
But I think it's important, it's just important to know
(08:09):
how people collaborate
because while I personally think that this is an ideal, uh,
partnership Yeah.
Other people operate differently and they're not right,
or they're not wrong, and we're not right, we're not wrong.
But I think for me, I, as you know, as we always talk about,
I think we're looking at this as a corporation and,
and what best serves the needs of the corporation.
And if everyone in your business is dedicated to sales,
(08:33):
to getting product onto the shelf, who's running the day
to day, who's making sure that the warehouse is stocked,
who's making sure, you know, like those kinds of things.
So I think that, that, for me, I love being able
to focus on my job, um,
and having a manager that I can trust
to just run the business as it were.
Mm-Hmm. Um, and I think that's the primary purpose
(08:53):
to bring on a manager also.
Yeah. And I, and you know, another thing too,
we've talked a lot about sort of like if you have a manager
and you bring on an agent
or, you know, we've sort of been talking about if you have
both, one thing I would say is if you happen to start
by being Reed an agency first,
and at some point it pop, the idea pops into your head
that you may wanna bring on a manager, please speak
(09:17):
with your agent Yeah.
About that. Yeah.
And don't just go off on your own
and decide to bring someone new onto the team without having
that conversation with your agent.
Yeah. Very early in my tenure in starting this career,
um, I, you know, had a client
(09:39):
recommend a friend of theirs to me who was looking
for a manager and took a meeting with this person,
and the meeting was lovely,
and I offered them representation
and like three hours later, my phone rings
and I pick it up and I like
the screaming, uh, what are you doing?
(10:01):
Talking to my client, la la la, la la la la.
And this person, I was like, okay, hello, this is new.
Um, you know, and I think this was quite some time ago, I,
I hope that some of the screaming has gone from the, uh,
from the business a bit.
But as I come to find out, what had happened is that this,
(10:22):
this potential new client of mine hadn't informed their
agent that they were thinking of bringing on management.
Um, the agent would have liked to have been part
of the conversation of identifying managers
that they already had relationships with.
They didn't know me from Adam. They had never heard of me.
And so, you know, it just, it, it just was never gonna work
(10:44):
because that's the way the relationship started.
So, yeah, and I actually ended up bowing out of that
because, because I was like, you look,
you have a longstanding relationship with this agent.
This is the last way
that we should be starting our relationship.
So communication, no matter which way you're going,
if you have a manager
and you think it's time to bring on an agent
or anyone else on your team, you shouldn't be going off
(11:07):
and trying to find that on your own.
And if you start with an agent
and you wanna bring a manager, a lawyer,
or anyone else go to the source, they're gonna have managers
that they work with, they're gonna have relationships,
they're gonna have people that they already have, you know,
a rapport established with like we do.
And, um, and so that's actually the best referral too.
(11:27):
I think another difference between agents
and managers is really like the, the focus, I think
for an agent in particular, we're looking
for short-term opportunities.
We're looking for that next sale, that next job,
what's in front of us right now, what are the breakdowns,
what are the breakdowns that are coming up in
the near future?
And then we're also looking like immediate career
advancement, whereas I feel like for a manager,
(11:50):
it's really about nurturing a career.
Mm-Hmm. Yeah, I think you're right about that.
I'm, I'm more concerned with
developing talent if I'm starting with someone who's sort
of brand new to the industry
or developing someone to that next level.
They wanna level up.
They wanna go from guest stars
to series regular or something like that.
And so we're talking about the strategy around that.
(12:11):
Um, and then just again, that overall career management.
So that's where, you know, I'm not necessarily looking
for those short term opportunities.
And it's, and you want ideally in our opinion, uh, to have
one of each on your team so
that you're really getting that full scope.
Just to talk about too, some
of the differences on the agent side is we do have a
(12:33):
fiduciary, uh, we do have a fiduciary
responsibility to our clients.
We are state licensed, we are bonded.
Um, there are licensing, as I said, requirements for agents
that don't exist for managers.
Mm-Hmm. Um, but then the advantage of a manager,
I think would be smaller rosters.
It's gonna be someone that you speak to day
to day. Can you speak on that a little
Bit? Yeah, absolutely.
(12:54):
I,
and I think it's really important to understand just
how much, um,
preparation goes into becoming an agent and getting bonded.
And there, I mean, there's a huge expense to that too.
So remember that, that any agent that you're talking to has,
you know, there's been a significant investment on their
part to go through all of that licensing and bonding.
(13:17):
Um, and that is something to keep in mind.
Anyone can just start a management company
because they don't have to be vetted like that by the state.
And so you really wanna, when you're talking about bringing,
you know, when you're interviewing managers
to come onto your team, you just really wanna talk about
and understand what their history is and,
and sort of how they see the business.
(13:39):
Because it is, the barrier to entry for managers is
so much lower than it is for agents.
Um, you know, I think in California,
technically managers aren't, aren't supposed
to procure work in the way that they
Yeah. What I know when I started
that was a very big deal.
It seems like that's really loosened. It's,
Yeah. I mean obviously,
(14:00):
you know, we're involved in that,
but it is because of that fiduciary responsibility.
And, and so whenever, you know, if I find an opportunity
for a client that I can kind of bring,
I'm always making sure that my agents
that are on the team are actually the ones closing that
because they have that responsibility.
Yeah. The worst is, I've had managers close deals
(14:20):
and hand 'em to me at the 11th hour with a problem, like,
Hey, they won't, they, they blah, blah,
blah. I'm like, yeah, I bet not.
Because you're not supposed to be negotiating that.
So, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And yeah. Oh, go ahead, please.
No, I was gonna say like, I am happy to Yeah. Yeah.
I'm like, I wanna do my role. You're the negotiating expert.
And of course, you know, I love it when agents say, Hey,
(14:43):
this is what I'm thinking of asking, this is
what we're gonna plan on doing.
Can you take a second look? Of course.
We wanna be the second nine.
Yeah. That's, especially on larger projects, larger roles,
that's gonna be a big, there's gonna be a lot of back
and forth that you're not necessarily privy to.
Um, but that's, that's happening behind the scenes
with a good working relationship.
Right. Um, that's very key.
And that's why you wanna involve everyone already on the
(15:05):
team with any new additions
to the team with that conversation.
Because it can get, you know, we have people we like,
but also we have people we don't like working with
or people that we have had problems with or whatever.
Um, whatever reason,
we don't necessarily jive with that person.
Maybe you just don't see the business the same way. Yeah.
And when you do, you know, let's say you say to your agent,
Hey, I wanna bring someone on the team,
(15:26):
and they introduce you to five
or six different people, you go off and take meetings.
When you do actually sign with someone,
you really should take the time to kind of send a team email
and be like, Hey everyone, we're all working together now.
Here's everyone's contact info.
You know, they may not have worked together,
shared a client before.
And so it's really your responsibility again as the CEO
(15:48):
of your business to be guiding that communication.
Yeah. So now let's talk about like, when is the right time
to bring on an agent or a manager?
Let's start with what we kind of said earlier.
There is significant overlap these days on these jobs.
Many managers get the breakdowns they can submit,
they can even close deals, especially smaller deals.
(16:08):
Mm-Hmm. Um, and many managers
or many agents can provide sort of long-term,
longer term career guidance.
They're not gonna be as specific as a manager, um,
or as hands-on as a manager.
But especially at the beginning of your career,
it's okay to have one.
Um, I think when I was starting out,
and correct me if you have a different experience,
(16:29):
when I was starting out,
it was really the emphasis was like, get an agent first.
Mm-Hmm. And then when you have something
to manage, get a manager.
I really feel like that's flipped. It
Flipped. Yeah.
Uh, because I feel like the development side
is so much on you guys.
Yeah. I feel like it has flipped.
I feel like it's interesting.
It's like there's, you know, for whatever reason
(16:50):
agencies just don't have the time these days
to do a lot of development.
And I think agencies have,
and again, correct me if I'm wrong,
but have moved towards really wanting those
from referrals Yeah.
From managers. That's primarily how they're,
you're gonna find new clients.
So I, yeah, there is this like need
(17:11):
for a manager at the beginning and then,
and then I think the, like there needs to be something
to manage can kind of kick in.
Sure. Yes. Right. And so you may find that sort
of mid-career.
You may actually, I mean,
ideally I think most managers wanna be there
for the long run, but I,
I feel like I have also found people kind of exiting,
(17:34):
having management sort of in the middle
of things when they have a, an agent that's kind
of getting them going.
And then once they get to that level where it's kind
of too much for just the agent
and the client to work with, they kind of
of bring on management again.
Yeah. I think you're right that that is a trend.
I personally believe,
and I would never tell anyone how
(17:55):
to run their business despite the channel.
Um, but I, I, I personally believe if I were an actor,
I would wanna sign with one person ever.
Yeah. One manager, one agent,
and really build together and have that.
So I would say, look for someone that you want to be with
long term, because I think that
that just yields much better results down the road than sort
(18:17):
of like hopping in and out and changing up.
But, you know, I mean, again, your,
your career is gonna dictate what you need to bring on.
And when I think the bigger question is not job title,
but rather like who's passionate about you.
Like if you showcase at your, you know, college
or if you're doing a short film
and you get like discover some manager comes up to you
(18:38):
or some agent comes up to you
and they're like crazy about your work
and they're really excited to like get you into the market
and like, oh my God, I can't wait
to tell my casting friends about you.
I think you should consider signing with
that person regardless of job title.
Absolutely. Whether they're an
agent, whether they're a manager.
Um, I think that that's just real,
that's more important than anything.
Yeah. And I think a lot of people,
(18:59):
they just want to get the Yes.
They just want to get onto a roster and figure it out.
I don't really love that approach.
Yeah. I mean, having an agent just
to have an agent on IMDB
or having a manager just to have a manager on IMDB, I have,
I've never found that that's worked out well for anyone.
Yeah. And vice versa, I mean, for an agent,
like anytime I've tried to sign
(19:21):
because I'm like, oh, I need this category, I need,
I need X, Y, or Z, it never works.
Like I have to be passionate about that performer.
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
Something to note too is like,
who sends the appointment is not always relevant to
who did the work to generate the appointment.
Yeah, that's, that's really interesting too.
(19:41):
I find that, you know,
because agents are the ones that are supposed
to pure procure work.
There are a lot of casting offices
who have been doing this a very long time and know,
and kind of know that they're trying not,
they're also trying to not run afoul of that
Rule, I guess in California, maybe it's,
I mean I think it's a law,
(20:02):
but I think it functions more as a rule at this point.
And so yeah, quite often it is something to remember that,
you know, it might actually be your manager
that's doing the submission, but the,
the audition is gonna come through the agency.
Um, again, I don't care. Right.
I am just happy I, I do not get territorial about that
(20:24):
because ultimately the point is for the client
to be getting the most opportunities to work as possible.
But in terms of evaluating sort
of if your manager is working for you versus your agent,
I really appreciate you bringing that up actually.
Yeah. Well and we say the opposite sometimes too
because I think especially mid-career, a lot
(20:45):
of times casting as soon
as the manager's like in control of the schedule.
Sure. Yeah. So they'll send it to the manager. Yeah.
So just know that like sometimes I'll have a actors meet
with me like, Hey listen, I feel like all my
appointments are coming through you.
Maybe I wanna switch up by management.
I'm always quick to say two things.
Number one, that's not
what you want your manager spending their time doing Right.
To begin with. Right.
But that number two, like it's just not indicative
(21:06):
of generally speaking, we're all doing the work. Yeah.
And quite often both of us are submitting you
for the same ching because we are all
so in sync about your branding.
And so then it's just sort
of whoever's submission casting happens to click on Yeah.
To send the appointments.
It helps being first alphabetically.
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
(21:27):
I, well, which is so funny 'cause like sat right before
DD that's why you get all my appointments.
That's, there it is. We, we solved it. Thank
You so much for watching.
If you got value outta this video, please click
that thumbs up button, click subscribe
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That way you get alerted every time we put out a new video.
Thanks so much for watching. We'll see you the next times.
Hello from Hollywood.
My name is Anthony Boyer.
I've been a talent agent in Los Angeles
for the last 15 years, and today I'm gonna take Fountain.
We're gonna talk about the differences
between a talent agent and a talent manager.
Here to help me with this week's video is my good friend
talent manager extraordinaire
with Sentara Entertainment. Jess Canty.
(00:22):
Thank you. Hi, how you doing?
I'm great. So what you, what people don't know is
that every episode we've done,
you've been sitting right over there.
I have been, uh, cracking the whip.
I have been, I I have been managing the videos. Yeah,
That's really true. But
I'm glad to be, I'm glad to be on this side of camera
with this one especially,
And we're gonna pull you in a
little bit more moving forward.
(00:43):
Uh, we just wanted to establish this beautiful face first.
It's called branding. Look it up.
Um, so today we're talking about the differences
and similarities between talent agents, which is what I do
for a living and talent managers,
which presumably is what you do
for a living. Yes. Would you
Disagree? Yes. That is
what I do for a living.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so I think the first thing
(01:03):
to talk about is like to define roles, right?
Um, presuming that you have both an agent
and a manager on the team because not everyone does.
Mm-Hmm. Um, and there's a lot of crossover between our jobs
because some people only have one or the other.
Right. And I think this is, you know,
how we see the ideal working relationship
with an agent and a manager.
(01:25):
Yeah. This is, I mean, I think it's why we've been able
to work together so well.
Um, but I guess the caveat being that
not every agent is necessarily gonna see
this relationship the way we do.
Not every manager is gonna see their role exactly the way we
see it, but we just know how successful we've been able
to be together for the clients we share.
(01:46):
Yeah. And in our relationships, my relationships with agents
and yours, with other managers.
And so that's sort of how we're gonna be talking about that.
Yeah. And I think it's important for the actors
to help define the roles of their team also,
because ultimately you are the CEO of your own company
and we are on your team,
(02:08):
but ultimately you are running your team for an agent.
Uh, typically our primary job is
to find work opportunities for an actor.
Um, by securing auditions, we, at which point, you know,
you will go and audition and,
and hopefully book the job,
at which point we will negotiate a contract.
Usually if there's a lawyer on the team,
(02:28):
that can be a little bit different.
Um, and then once the contract is signed, we help make sure
that the terms of that contract are enforced.
That's kind of, it is the process of finding, securing
and protecting us an individual sale.
Uh, whereas for a manager, wouldn't you say it's a bit
of a more macro focus?
I, yeah, I think that's a really good way
(02:48):
of separating the two.
And you know, in the context of you are the CEO
of your acting business, we really see the agent
as the VP of sales,
whereas your manager ideally should be kind
of like your chief operating officer.
And that's really how I see my role within the team is that,
you know, my primary job actually is not to find work right.
(03:12):
For my actors. Now, if I have an actor
that doesn't have an agent
or a great agent like Anthony,
of course I'm gonna be helping with that.
But once we have someone on the team, assuming
that you have a manager before you have an agent,
once I have someone on the team, I'm actually happy to turn
that responsibility over primarily to the agent
(03:34):
and move more into that operational support.
So what does that look like?
That is overall strategy for your career.
Anthony brings two
or three opportunities, maybe two
of them conflict with each other.
He just wants to know which ones you're,
which ones you're gonna audition for.
The conversation about the strategy around which ones
(03:56):
and what you wanna do and what's better
for the direction you're going.
That is gonna fall with me, the manager branding, for lack
of a better word, right?
Your photos, your reels, what's up on
what casting service.
Um, you know, do you need new photos?
Do you need to cut new clips from something?
(04:17):
All of that really falls under sort of the operations part
of being a manager so that Anthony can go do his job
as your VP of sales.
Um, and our conversations really are around, Hey,
do you have everything you need?
If, how is it out there when you're talking
to casting about a client that we share?
(04:39):
You know, is there something that you're missing?
Is there a segment of the market that you think
that they could go into if they had, you know, a clip
of them doing something funny or whatever that is.
So managers, I really see as, like we were saying sort
of the macro, the overall strategy, the branding,
(05:00):
and helping to make Anthony, you know,
whoever your agent's life is easier.
That's really how I see, well,
Not just the agent, but the managing the entire team.
Yes. Really. Yeah. If there's an attorney,
if there's a publicist, the headshot photographer, all
of those pieces are really under the purview of the manager.
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, to that point,
(05:20):
let's say you have a commercial agent
that's at a different agency than your
theatrical agent, right?
And so the coordination
and the communication between those two companies, again,
if you have multiple opportunities
and you kind of have to decide between them,
ideally your manager should be talking through that with you
and you should be talking through
(05:41):
those things with your manager.
And then they're gonna help facilitate maybe saying
to the theatrical agent, like, Hey,
they're gonna pass on this CoStar
because they're down the road on this national commercial
and it's gonna make their health insurance or whatever.
So we're there to facilitate kind
of the tough conversations with your reps too. And
(06:02):
I think it's helpful when you hear that, to think
of the inverse if you don't have a manager, right?
It's sort of incumbent on you to lead those conversations
and those discussions, which can be a little uncomfortable
because some agents get territorial Mm-Hmm.
Um, they want you available for their projects.
They're not thinking about the long-term career vision,
which is really a manager's forte.
(06:22):
Yeah. Um, in most cases, yeah.
Some managers do operate a little more like agents.
I find my most successful collaborations are with people who
I think take that sort of career focused approach.
And let me just get into the day
of day, day to day of selling
And selling. Yeah. Yeah.
Absolutely.
Well, and I think that's, you know,
that's something when you're thinking about putting your
(06:43):
team together, you know, when you have that initial meeting,
learning where, how your manager comes into managing,
because like you said, there are quite a few people
who start in the agency world
and decide to move to management.
And sometimes they decide to move to management
because they actually don't like the hyper focus
of a selling, and they wanna be involved in this sort
(07:05):
of more career focused brand, you know, overall thing.
And sometimes they move into management
and they sort of still have the, the agency mentality.
And we're not saying that, that
that person can't be effective for you at all,
but you just should know what style of management
that you're bringing on your team.
(07:26):
And to your point about sort of
putting the whole team together, you know, I think
a manager, like you said, is gonna be the person
that is gonna tell you when it's time to bring on a lawyer
when you maybe need to have a publicist.
It's not that the, your agent won't be involved in
that conversation, but that should start between you
(07:47):
and your manager, assuming you have both.
Yeah. And I, I find a lot of times, um,
I will have the conversation with the manager
and be like, Hey, listen, I think
this is a pretty big opportunity.
Maybe it's time to bring a publicist on
and kind of just wind you up
and set you off on a path so that you can go
and have that conversation and sort of run
that right project, if you will.
But I think it's important, it's just important to know
(08:09):
how people collaborate
because while I personally think that this is an ideal, uh,
partnership Yeah.
Other people operate differently and they're not right,
or they're not wrong, and we're not right, we're not wrong.
But I think for me, I, as you know, as we always talk about,
I think we're looking at this as a corporation and,
and what best serves the needs of the corporation.
And if everyone in your business is dedicated to sales,
(08:33):
to getting product onto the shelf, who's running the day
to day, who's making sure that the warehouse is stocked,
who's making sure, you know, like those kinds of things.
So I think that, that, for me, I love being able
to focus on my job, um,
and having a manager that I can trust
to just run the business as it were.
Mm-Hmm. Um, and I think that's the primary purpose
(08:53):
to bring on a manager also.
Yeah. And I, and you know, another thing too,
we've talked a lot about sort of like if you have a manager
and you bring on an agent
or, you know, we've sort of been talking about if you have
both, one thing I would say is if you happen to start
by being Reed an agency first,
and at some point it pop, the idea pops into your head
that you may wanna bring on a manager, please speak
(09:17):
with your agent Yeah.
About that. Yeah.
And don't just go off on your own
and decide to bring someone new onto the team without having
that conversation with your agent.
Yeah. Very early in my tenure in starting this career,
um, I, you know, had a client
(09:39):
recommend a friend of theirs to me who was looking
for a manager and took a meeting with this person,
and the meeting was lovely,
and I offered them representation
and like three hours later, my phone rings
and I pick it up and I like
the screaming, uh, what are you doing?
(10:01):
Talking to my client, la la la, la la la la.
And this person, I was like, okay, hello, this is new.
Um, you know, and I think this was quite some time ago, I,
I hope that some of the screaming has gone from the, uh,
from the business a bit.
But as I come to find out, what had happened is that this,
(10:22):
this potential new client of mine hadn't informed their
agent that they were thinking of bringing on management.
Um, the agent would have liked to have been part
of the conversation of identifying managers
that they already had relationships with.
They didn't know me from Adam. They had never heard of me.
And so, you know, it just, it, it just was never gonna work
(10:44):
because that's the way the relationship started.
So, yeah, and I actually ended up bowing out of that
because, because I was like, you look,
you have a longstanding relationship with this agent.
This is the last way
that we should be starting our relationship.
So communication, no matter which way you're going,
if you have a manager
and you think it's time to bring on an agent
or anyone else on your team, you shouldn't be going off
(11:07):
and trying to find that on your own.
And if you start with an agent
and you wanna bring a manager, a lawyer,
or anyone else go to the source, they're gonna have managers
that they work with, they're gonna have relationships,
they're gonna have people that they already have, you know,
a rapport established with like we do.
And, um, and so that's actually the best referral too.
(11:27):
I think another difference between agents
and managers is really like the, the focus, I think
for an agent in particular, we're looking
for short-term opportunities.
We're looking for that next sale, that next job,
what's in front of us right now, what are the breakdowns,
what are the breakdowns that are coming up in
the near future?
And then we're also looking like immediate career
advancement, whereas I feel like for a manager,
(11:50):
it's really about nurturing a career.
Mm-Hmm. Yeah, I think you're right about that.
I'm, I'm more concerned with
developing talent if I'm starting with someone who's sort
of brand new to the industry
or developing someone to that next level.
They wanna level up.
They wanna go from guest stars
to series regular or something like that.
And so we're talking about the strategy around that.
(12:11):
Um, and then just again, that overall career management.
So that's where, you know, I'm not necessarily looking
for those short term opportunities.
And it's, and you want ideally in our opinion, uh, to have
one of each on your team so
that you're really getting that full scope.
Just to talk about too, some
of the differences on the agent side is we do have a
(12:33):
fiduciary, uh, we do have a fiduciary
responsibility to our clients.
We are state licensed, we are bonded.
Um, there are licensing, as I said, requirements for agents
that don't exist for managers.
Mm-Hmm. Um, but then the advantage of a manager,
I think would be smaller rosters.
It's gonna be someone that you speak to day
to day. Can you speak on that a little
Bit? Yeah, absolutely.
(12:54):
I,
and I think it's really important to understand just
how much, um,
preparation goes into becoming an agent and getting bonded.
And there, I mean, there's a huge expense to that too.
So remember that, that any agent that you're talking to has,
you know, there's been a significant investment on their
part to go through all of that licensing and bonding.
(13:17):
Um, and that is something to keep in mind.
Anyone can just start a management company
because they don't have to be vetted like that by the state.
And so you really wanna, when you're talking about bringing,
you know, when you're interviewing managers
to come onto your team, you just really wanna talk about
and understand what their history is and,
and sort of how they see the business.
(13:39):
Because it is, the barrier to entry for managers is
so much lower than it is for agents.
Um, you know, I think in California,
technically managers aren't, aren't supposed
to procure work in the way that they
Yeah. What I know when I started
that was a very big deal.
It seems like that's really loosened. It's,
Yeah. I mean obviously,
(14:00):
you know, we're involved in that,
but it is because of that fiduciary responsibility.
And, and so whenever, you know, if I find an opportunity
for a client that I can kind of bring,
I'm always making sure that my agents
that are on the team are actually the ones closing that
because they have that responsibility.
Yeah. The worst is, I've had managers close deals
(14:20):
and hand 'em to me at the 11th hour with a problem, like,
Hey, they won't, they, they blah, blah,
blah. I'm like, yeah, I bet not.
Because you're not supposed to be negotiating that.
So, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And yeah. Oh, go ahead, please.
No, I was gonna say like, I am happy to Yeah. Yeah.
I'm like, I wanna do my role. You're the negotiating expert.
And of course, you know, I love it when agents say, Hey,
(14:43):
this is what I'm thinking of asking, this is
what we're gonna plan on doing.
Can you take a second look? Of course.
We wanna be the second nine.
Yeah. That's, especially on larger projects, larger roles,
that's gonna be a big, there's gonna be a lot of back
and forth that you're not necessarily privy to.
Um, but that's, that's happening behind the scenes
with a good working relationship.
Right. Um, that's very key.
And that's why you wanna involve everyone already on the
(15:05):
team with any new additions
to the team with that conversation.
Because it can get, you know, we have people we like,
but also we have people we don't like working with
or people that we have had problems with or whatever.
Um, whatever reason,
we don't necessarily jive with that person.
Maybe you just don't see the business the same way. Yeah.
And when you do, you know, let's say you say to your agent,
Hey, I wanna bring someone on the team,
(15:26):
and they introduce you to five
or six different people, you go off and take meetings.
When you do actually sign with someone,
you really should take the time to kind of send a team email
and be like, Hey everyone, we're all working together now.
Here's everyone's contact info.
You know, they may not have worked together,
shared a client before.
And so it's really your responsibility again as the CEO
(15:48):
of your business to be guiding that communication.
Yeah. So now let's talk about like, when is the right time
to bring on an agent or a manager?
Let's start with what we kind of said earlier.
There is significant overlap these days on these jobs.
Many managers get the breakdowns they can submit,
they can even close deals, especially smaller deals.
(16:08):
Mm-Hmm. Um, and many managers
or many agents can provide sort of long-term,
longer term career guidance.
They're not gonna be as specific as a manager, um,
or as hands-on as a manager.
But especially at the beginning of your career,
it's okay to have one.
Um, I think when I was starting out,
and correct me if you have a different experience,
(16:29):
when I was starting out,
it was really the emphasis was like, get an agent first.
Mm-Hmm. And then when you have something
to manage, get a manager.
I really feel like that's flipped. It
Flipped. Yeah.
Uh, because I feel like the development side
is so much on you guys.
Yeah. I feel like it has flipped.
I feel like it's interesting.
It's like there's, you know, for whatever reason
(16:50):
agencies just don't have the time these days
to do a lot of development.
And I think agencies have,
and again, correct me if I'm wrong,
but have moved towards really wanting those
from referrals Yeah.
From managers. That's primarily how they're,
you're gonna find new clients.
So I, yeah, there is this like need
(17:11):
for a manager at the beginning and then,
and then I think the, like there needs to be something
to manage can kind of kick in.
Sure. Yes. Right. And so you may find that sort
of mid-career.
You may actually, I mean,
ideally I think most managers wanna be there
for the long run, but I,
I feel like I have also found people kind of exiting,
(17:34):
having management sort of in the middle
of things when they have a, an agent that's kind
of getting them going.
And then once they get to that level where it's kind
of too much for just the agent
and the client to work with, they kind of
of bring on management again.
Yeah. I think you're right that that is a trend.
I personally believe,
and I would never tell anyone how
(17:55):
to run their business despite the channel.
Um, but I, I, I personally believe if I were an actor,
I would wanna sign with one person ever.
Yeah. One manager, one agent,
and really build together and have that.
So I would say, look for someone that you want to be with
long term, because I think that
that just yields much better results down the road than sort
(18:17):
of like hopping in and out and changing up.
But, you know, I mean, again, your,
your career is gonna dictate what you need to bring on.
And when I think the bigger question is not job title,
but rather like who's passionate about you.
Like if you showcase at your, you know, college
or if you're doing a short film
and you get like discover some manager comes up to you
(18:38):
or some agent comes up to you
and they're like crazy about your work
and they're really excited to like get you into the market
and like, oh my God, I can't wait
to tell my casting friends about you.
I think you should consider signing with
that person regardless of job title.
Absolutely. Whether they're an
agent, whether they're a manager.
Um, I think that that's just real,
that's more important than anything.
Yeah. And I think a lot of people,
(18:59):
they just want to get the Yes.
They just want to get onto a roster and figure it out.
I don't really love that approach.
Yeah. I mean, having an agent just
to have an agent on IMDB
or having a manager just to have a manager on IMDB, I have,
I've never found that that's worked out well for anyone.
Yeah. And vice versa, I mean, for an agent,
like anytime I've tried to sign
(19:21):
because I'm like, oh, I need this category, I need,
I need X, Y, or Z, it never works.
Like I have to be passionate about that performer.
Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
Something to note too is like,
who sends the appointment is not always relevant to
who did the work to generate the appointment.
Yeah, that's, that's really interesting too.
(19:41):
I find that, you know,
because agents are the ones that are supposed
to pure procure work.
There are a lot of casting offices
who have been doing this a very long time and know,
and kind of know that they're trying not,
they're also trying to not run afoul of that
Rule, I guess in California, maybe it's,
I mean I think it's a law,
(20:02):
but I think it functions more as a rule at this point.
And so yeah, quite often it is something to remember that,
you know, it might actually be your manager
that's doing the submission, but the,
the audition is gonna come through the agency.
Um, again, I don't care. Right.
I am just happy I, I do not get territorial about that
(20:24):
because ultimately the point is for the client
to be getting the most opportunities to work as possible.
But in terms of evaluating sort
of if your manager is working for you versus your agent,
I really appreciate you bringing that up actually.
Yeah. Well and we say the opposite sometimes too
because I think especially mid-career, a lot
(20:45):
of times casting as soon
as the manager's like in control of the schedule.
Sure. Yeah. So they'll send it to the manager. Yeah.
So just know that like sometimes I'll have a actors meet
with me like, Hey listen, I feel like all my
appointments are coming through you.
Maybe I wanna switch up by management.
I'm always quick to say two things.
Number one, that's not
what you want your manager spending their time doing Right.
To begin with. Right.
But that number two, like it's just not indicative
(21:06):
of generally speaking, we're all doing the work. Yeah.
And quite often both of us are submitting you
for the same ching because we are all
so in sync about your branding.
And so then it's just sort
of whoever's submission casting happens to click on Yeah.
To send the appointments.
It helps being first alphabetically.
Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah.
(21:27):
I, well, which is so funny 'cause like sat right before
DD that's why you get all my appointments.
That's, there it is. We, we solved it. Thank
You so much for watching.
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