Bob Dylan, Vampires, and Popes: 'A Complete Unknown,' 'Nosferatu,' and 'Conclave'

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello, welcome to the WorkingMan's TV and Streaming podcast.
And folks, we're off the farmwith this episode.
Indeed we did.
We went to the movies.
We toss in a streamer amongstthe three discussions.
This is our kind of going tothe movies episode.
We do it probably two or threetimes a year at the most.
Kind of bends our rules, takesus out of just TV and streaming,

(00:23):
puts us in the theater for atleast a couple of episodes per year.
We're going to begin with acomplete unknown, the Bob Dylan movie.
We're gonna go from there toNosferatu, and then we'll end with
Conclave, which is the onlyone that's streaming.
That's on Peacock if you wantto play along at home.

(00:43):
As always, we'll begin.
No spoilers, but we will talkabout those three films in that order,
but no spoilers.
So don't freak out.
And then I will give you aheads up when we start talking about
the details of each one.
So are they any good?
Well, let's figure it out.
Alabama, take projection.

(01:06):
The three of us, the threebeing me, Adam and Donovan.
We're all here.
It's kind of funny becausewe've been to the movies.
You know, we do this twice ayear, really.
One time over the holidays andthen once during the summer where
we bend the rules of thepodcast and we actually go to the
movies and break down a movieor two that hasn't hit the streamers.

(01:28):
That's what we're doing thisweek to actually double down on that,
on that bending or breaking ofthe rule.
That's how we ended up thisweek with only one of the three things
on streaming.
We're going to be talkingabout things in this order, non spoiler.
We'll go a complete unknown Nosferatu.
And then on the tail end,we're going to do Conclave, which

(01:50):
is our streaming choice.
Usually we do all streaming orall tv, but we, we had a break.
It was the holidays.
We were at the movies.
Let's begin.
It's the Bob Dylan biopicstarring Timothy Chamolay Chamberlay
as the man himself in acomplete unknown.
The movie is directed by JamesMangold, whom you may know from Logan

(02:14):
Ford v.
Ferrari walk the line 310 toYuma remake.
If you know the story ofDylan's early years at all, you know
what's going to happen on screen.
Still, we won't cite specificsuntil later.
I think only Adam and I sawthis one.
I haven't seen it yet.
That's correct.
Okay, I Loved it.

(02:35):
I didn't know it was.
I saw it maybe a week after itcame out.
And it was funny to run downthis checklist of.
Of, like, people, you know.
I texted Blaine is Blaine.
You can admit that you havespent time on Bob Dylan forums, right.
Adam?
I will admit.

(02:56):
I'll go so far as to admit tosay I was kind of known on a Dylan
forum for the early aughts.
I'm trying to establish yourbona fides here.
Yeah.
Not only has.
Not only has Blaine been on aforum, he's been thrown off of him.
I've not been thrown up.
I was a very nice and kindsoul on these forums.
Very, very polite.
Ye.

(03:17):
And I went by my real name,which is probably.
Oh, really?
Yeah, yeah.
Why not?
So I could probably find the archive.
Maybe.
I only.
I only would comment a fewthings or question a few things.
Yeah, I knew a guy who gotthrown off tighter Insider.
And then he.
He, like, was so addicted toit that he got his buddy's login,

(03:37):
but his buddy was like,slapping him on the hand, like, you
cannot comment under my nameand get me kicked off.
I say that to say I wanted theopinion of people who, with Dylan,
are in pretty deep, you know,and then just ask folks who like
Dylan and like movies.
And everybody had thisattitude of, like, I'm shocked at
how good it is maybe because Ithink everybody's kind of tempering

(04:00):
expectations.
Right.
Like, here's this.
If someone's life isborderline unfilmable, it's the guy
who wrote volume one of hisown autobiography and seems to have
no intention of writing volumetwo and seemed to have no intent
of telling the truth in volume one.
Very little.
How do you pick a start andend point?
And it just did all of thosethings so well.

(04:24):
I think maybe people get jadedabout the biopic and, like, what?
Especially with music and mebeing surrounded by musicians.
You're kind of easilydismissive of things.
I thought Walk the Line was areally good music biopic.
And so with all of thesefactors, I'm not surprised it ended
up being very good.
But I loved it.
My friends that I know here intown who haven't gone yet, I keep

(04:48):
texting them, like, hey, ifyou need a buddy to go to the movies
with, I'll go see it again.
Yeah, I've seen it twice.
I loved it to its core.
I appreciate that it knew itwas a biopic, but decided to cover
only those four years.
And as all movies have to do,it condensed a lot of things the

(05:09):
moments James Mangold decidedto use here earlier than it actually
happened versus later, when itreally happened in reality.
It just worked.
It clicked.
It wasn't a case of trying tosqueeze in more fact as much as it
was to get emotional power outof an already vital.
And I'd forgotten revelatorystory, revolutionary story.

(05:32):
I kind of forgotten that.
You know, I think a lot ofDylan fans would admit that we kind
of have forget.
Forgotten that he played rightbefore Dr.
King's I have a Dream speechthat's in this movie, but, like,
for two seconds.
I work at a community collegeand has an old archive of.
Of newspapers and from thelate 60s.

(05:55):
I mean, the students are crazy.
You literally couldn't printhalf the stuff today.
But they're quoting, like.
Like what.
What Blaine is saying is like.
Like this.
Bob Dylan was so important tothese students that they're printing
lyrics from his songs in thestudent newspaper.
I mean, that's real impact.
These random community collegestudents in Connecticut.
Yeah.
Printing Dylan songs.
Yeah.
I loved it to its core.

(06:16):
I thought that it could nothave been any better considering
what it was trying to do andtake on.
It's one of my favoritemovies, but I am its audience, so
it's hard to.
For me to give a really clearopinion on it.
But I would do my best in thespoiler section on what.
What I feel like made it tick with.
With two of these movies.
Conclave did this too.

(06:36):
I'm like, if you like ideasand you like big thoughts being important
and having, like, real world impact.
Oh, yeah.
Then this movie is for you.
And, like, when I think ofart, I think that's what it is.
And I realize not everybodywatches movies for that or listens
to music for that, and that's fine.
But I just can't imagineanybody who's like.
And I'd say this isunpretentiously as possible if you're

(06:59):
serious about filming, if youenjoy being moved by something, I
can't imagine not liking it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's funny.
A quick aside that's totallyrelated is Lee and I were talking
this week, just the other day,about how we're so tired of our phones
and social media and that wedo actually watch TV and movies to

(07:19):
activate our minds.
Like, we don't.
We don't watch things passively.
Yeah.
I think a great film you'restill thinking about.
And if I was to quickly godown this list, I have thought a
lot about a complete unknown,very little about Nosferatu, and
a lot about Conclaves.
And seeing it.
Well, that's a perfect segue.
Next on the list is anotherfilm that's still in theaters, the

(07:40):
Robert Edgar's new endeavor, Nosferatu.
Many folks, I suppose, knowthat the original version of nosferatu
was a 1922 silent film.
A.
M.
I right?
No, it was silent.
Right, Correct.
It is.
It is silent.
And then Werner Herzogen.
Yes.
Also made a version in the 70s.
Indeed.
I think it was the 70s.
Both went by some version ofthat ar.
Archaic name for vampirebecause it.

(08:02):
Was it because of someproblems with the rights of Dracula
originally in 1922.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Yes.
Okay.
It was basically like an unauthor.
Like, it's Dracula.
But, you know, copyright lawwas a.
Was a lot more loosey goosey too.
Okay.
But it's.
It's Dracula.
Yeah, it is, but, like,they're not acknowledging that it's
Dracula at all.
So it's.

(08:23):
It's basically a piratedversion of Dracula.
Yes.
The.
The 22 film.
Now.
Now, Herzog could have donethe 22 film.
Could have done whatever hewanted in 79, but he made his version
of Nosferatu.
And then we have lastDecember's version from Eggers, which
stars Lily Rose Depp of theIdol and its train wreck on hbo.

(08:44):
But this new incarnation ofthe film has also Nicholas Holt,
Will Willem Dafoe, and BillSkarsgard as the titular Nosferatu.
I didn't see this one.
So this is gonna.
It's an odd one here.
It's rare that I'm the one whohasn't seen something.
I'm gonna let Adam and Donovangive us general feelings on what

(09:04):
they felt about it.
Adam did send me a text thatmaybe could kick off the conversation,
which is.
He said, it feels like one youwait for at home.
Right.
I don't know.
I'm gonna.
This is a tricky one because Ilove Eggers.
Yeah.
And I think that the irony inthat is this was a beautiful film.
It looked amazing on the big screen.
I saw one review say, ifyou're walking out of the theater

(09:28):
and you're hearing people say,wow, the cinematography was great.
That probably doesn't bodethat well for how good the story
was.
A 24 Eggers.
A classic plot, these familiarelements, you're kind of expecting
a home run.
So I don't know that that'scompletely fair to a film to walk
in with, but I was kind oflukewarm on it, unfortunately.

(09:52):
I was the Blaine of this movie.
This was for you.
This was for Me?
Yeah, I.
This is one I'm glad I saw onthe big screen because.
And I.
And I liked.
You know, a lot of people saidit was, like, sedate and boring.
I was.
I got the feeling that it's like.
It really felt like you'readapting, like, and made up, like,

(10:12):
early 19th century, like.
Like a Gothic novel from,like, 1846 or whatever.
I liked the cinematography, Iliked the acting, and I liked that
it.
What.
What it did to my expectations.
Yeah, it just all kind ofworked for me because I actually
have thought about it sinceit's gone.
I agree with all of that.

(10:32):
And maybe I was being too harsh.
I thought it was good.
I didn't think it was outstanding.
Okay.
I should say, like, I thoughtthat if we're comparing his films,
it's.
I mean, the Witch is top ofthe heap for me, and it's.
It's kind of like the mark tobeat if I think that he's done something

(10:52):
great, which is probably not fair.
Yeah.
I actually ended up.
I think I liked it more thannow than I did, walking out of the
theater.
And it was.
It.
It's hard for me to describewhy, because there were just, like,
lots of little things whereI'm like, oh, yeah, I like that they
did this.
Like, this.
This was weird.
This was creepy.

(11:13):
This was unsettling.
This worked for me.
How much benefit does it didyou have, having seen the 22 version
and the 79?
For me, it's mostly.
I felt like I saw theanalogues, like, where they're like,
oh, this bit was in, like.

(11:34):
There's stuff in the 22.
I thought, can I.
Is it.
Is it a spoiler to, like,basically say things from Dracula?
I don't think so.
Okay, so, you know, in the.
In the Herzog, there's.
There's the.
It's actually this really,really great scene where the ship
that the Count has been on is.

(11:56):
You know, everyone dies on it.
Right.
And it comes up this canal.
It's supposed to be in aGerman city or something.
It comes up this canal with noone alive on it, and then rats come
out and there starts to be Pestilence.
And the city kind of starts tobreak down.
And there were a bunch ofstuff there where I'm like, oh, okay,
I see.
Like, he was probably reallyinspired by Herzog here.
He was probably reallyinspired by.
I think it was Murnau, or wasit Pabst?

(12:19):
The first one.
And then stuff like, oh, okay,he's doing his own thing there.
Yeah.
So I.
I Enjoyed it.
But by no means do you have tosee the other two.
Yeah.
Although I would recommend yousee the other two, which are probably
honestly, like, maybe notbetter than this one, but I felt
like they were all doingenough of a different thing that
I didn't mind having seen thesame story three times.

(12:41):
Yeah.
Of the three, which one do you.
Would you tell people to watch?
For sure.
Oh, boy.
The original.
The original.
If you're fine with silentfilm, the original one is so striking
and the original Count Orlokis so creepy.
Yeah.
That it's.
It's like.
It's.
It's almost.
Well, I mean, it's.

(13:02):
It's.
It's a movie with a plot andeverything, but it's more.
It's almost like just theselike primordial images.
Yeah, it is that.
Get that get stuck in your brain.
Yeah.
Everybody knows that image ofthe 1922 Nosferatu.
Sure.
The.
The Herzog one, though, youknow, is great.
Herzog's a great director.
He does more with.

(13:22):
Like, he does more with.
With the effect of this thingon the city.
Klaus Kinski is a horribleperson and an amazing warlock.
Yeah.
I got you.
It's like, if you can.
If you.
Herzog had the advantage offinding, like, the one guy who was
like, as evil as Dracula toplay Dracula.
That seems to be the case.

(13:43):
Yeah.
Adam said that if you leave atheater talking about the cinematography
versus the story might not beso good.
Well, here you could talkabout the either one.
Conclave was a beautiful filmfrom late 2024, I think it was released
in and around September orOctober, but it is now on Peacock.

(14:04):
So this is one you could playalong at home with if you want.
It's directed by Ed Edward Berger.
He also directed the Netflixmovie All Quiet on the Western front,
of which both of you guys loved.
I didn't c.
But y'all both gave it a highprize around this.
I gave it.
I.
I'm not sure if I would say Iloved it, but it's like, oh, this

(14:25):
is.
This is a thumbs up for me.
Yeah.
It's about this time last yearyou guys were talking about that.
And here's something that's wild.
I don't know if y'all realize this.
Edward Berger has directed atleast one episode of the show, your
honor, as well as the Terror.
Huh.
Didn't know that.
At least one, if not more.
It's coming full circle.

(14:46):
Sure is.
All roads lead to the terror,which if those.
Of course, this is inside jokecompletely, because nobody knows
this, but Adam has recentlywatched the Terror on Netflix, which
was originally on AMC 34 years ago.
And now I have watched 8/10 ofthe Terror.
And only college football isthe reason I haven't watched more.

(15:07):
Yeah, it's a good show.
We can highly frankly talkingwith you guys because I could be
in my living room right now.
Well, I was going to say, ifour listeners want a freebie, go
watch the Terror on Netflix.
It's about five years old.
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, just got Jared Harrisflexing on everybody.
Jared, man, he's so good, buteveryone's really good.
I love Jared.
Ship tries to traverse somevery cold waters.

(15:28):
There you go.
But don't, don't take it from us.
Conclave, though, is Adaptedfrom a 2016 Robert Harris novel.
Film gives an inside, albeit afictional, look at a conclave where
Cardinal Thomas Lawrence,played by Ray F, leads a sudden conclave
for a new pope when the lastone suddenly dies.

(15:48):
And while he conducts thismysterious conclave, Cardinal Lawrence
finds out all kinds of secrets.
One secret kind of leads to another.
The movie fits our mold, ourrules, because it's currently streaming
on Peacock.
And it's.
It's also got John Lithgow,Stanley Tucci, Both of those guys
are cardinals.

(16:09):
And it's got out of retirementIsabella Rossellini as David Letterman.
Used to.
Used to love that.
Non spoiler sections.
I'll start.
I came into this movie fairlycurious as to what it could present
that I hadn't seen in twoseasons of the wildly entertaining
HBO series the Young Pope.

(16:29):
I seriously thought, there'sno way this movie is going to tell
me anything I haven't seen inthat show.
Well, well, guess what?
Blame for this movie, they hadan old.
They had an old pope.
They had the wool over my eyes.
Let me tell you something.
The old bait and switch,completely different.
No, I was not enthralled atfirst, but conclave slowly enveloped

(16:54):
me with this internal andpolitical intrigue found not just
within the story, which you'veseen in various forms, but with the
characters.
It became interesting asthrough two questions like, what
secret does that guy have?
And which one of these guys is worse?
It's.
It almost became a detectivestory for me as much as.

(17:16):
As much as it was about aconclave, absolutely.
I'd say it was a detectivestory without as many clues.
Because I was watching,thinking, okay, where's my clue?
What's.
What am I supposed to get?
You get the clues as CardinalLawrence gets them.
So you're with him, the RalphVines character.
And did I like it.
Yeah, a lot.

(17:36):
I.
I really did.
I.
It just builded.
It continued to build.
Continued to build, and Ireally liked it a lot.
If A Complete Unknown was forBlaine and Nosferatu was for Donovan,
this film was for me.
This was Cardinal Morrow, twothumbs up.
I loved it.
Yeah.
There is nothing wrong withthis movie there.

(17:58):
I do have a slight thing ortwo I'll mention, but it's.
It's.
It's barely a critique I'll give.
Just with my, like, generalimpression of watching it is like,
Ralph Fiennes just has anability to bring you in to his characters,
doesn't he?
Like, I was so instantlyintrigued by him.

(18:18):
And then also, I mean, a lotof good stuff to say about this movie
for being what could be like,a fairly standard, like, melodrama.
I feel like it elevated that.
Oh, yeah.
You know, good call.
And so I feel like the scriptactually was.
Was good.
Yes.
And pretty smart.
Yeah, sure.
I.
I thought it was definitely done.

(18:38):
It's listed on Peacock if you.
You know, it has the quickgenre description underneath it.
It says thriller.
Yeah.
And, you know, there's.
I don't know, the Da VinciCode and Angels of Demons through,
like, things like the TwoPopes, which are.
Is just like a thoughtfulconversation between two great actors.
You know, it's a pretty widerange of things that you get dealing

(19:01):
with the Catholic Church inthis day and age.
And I feel like this onethreaded the needle really well.
Of, like.
Yeah, it's kind of a detectivestory, but it's also people who are
completely serious about theirconvictions, and they may not always
be religious convictions, but,like, these are serious people.

(19:22):
Taking a job seriously in thefilm is not, like, winking at the
camera.
Like, look at who still putsthis much importance on religion
in 2024.
You know, it's.
It's given the full gravity ofits potential.
That's.
Yeah, it is a sharp script.
I mean, it.
To me, it felt like.
Like, my phone is currentlybuzzing because I.

(19:44):
I've texted so many people,like, you should watch this.
Yeah.
Me and Hayden always joke.
We.
Capital S, capital L.
Serious literature.
This is a serious literature film.
Yeah.
I mean, the layers of literaryreferences, historical references,
all that stuff.
And then a few people havetexted back, you know, holy crap,
that.

(20:04):
That cast list is insane.
And my response has been, notonly is it insane, but they're all
at, like, full stride fromminute one of this.
Yeah.
Some of them not even onscreen for very long, and.
And they're great.
Yep.
I think something that like,just like.
As far as, like, the moviebeing made that supports all of this
too is like.

(20:25):
I thought it was pacedextremely well.
This is maybe one of the bestpace movies I've seen.
Yeah.
For something that could be really.
And I think that just goes andserves everything Adam was talking
about.
Where it doesn't it.
The pacing is so good.
You're not caught up on it.
And it gives.
It gives each scene enoughtime to build upon each other.

(20:48):
I thought that was like, forsomething that you can.
You can see a version of thismovie right.
Where it's like, oh, this is boring.
This was not that movie.
This was paced extremely well.
Yeah.
That was the big worry of minethat it was going to be.
Let's insert a break here.
And on the other side, we'llrun them down with spoilers in the
order that we began.
Seti Bimco R to the Revenge.
We create revenge sequels formovies that never had them.

(21:10):
Movies like Creature fromBlackpink, Hercules in New York,
the Choppas White Christmas,Psychotronic Man, Critters, Return
to Baki Creep, Killer.
Clouds from Outer Space, RoadTour, Mac.
And Me, Crypt of Dark Secrets.
George.
Remember the time we made arevenge sequel to Equinox?
You had to go to the hospital.
Yeah.
Seti Pimco Part two, the Revenge.
Every Wednesday.

(21:30):
Any place you listen to podcasts.
Start where we began.
We'll go with a complete unknown.
The James Mangold Bob Dylan Story.
Bob Dylan had a full reign onthe script.
I think Mangold met with himabout three or four times.

(21:51):
Dylan read it, made notes,gave it back.
How intimidating would that be?
I assume the hardest part ofcommunicating with Bob Dylan is figuring
out what the hell he's talking about.
Yeah.
Not the way that he speaks.
It's nice.
Not a Dylan joke in the waythat he speaks, but.

(22:13):
No, he speaks a metaphor.
More in the way he texts.
Yeah.
Or tweets.
He's a pretty straight shooteron those tweets.
Have I.
I know that we have.
We discussed this on air, thatI'm kind of fascinated by the idea
of, like.
Like, if you are thisincredible before and after historical
figure in whatever your fieldis, you don't get to have that person.

(22:36):
Bob Dylan has, you know, his heroes.
But, like, the Beatles had Bob Dylan.
Right.
You know, everybody followinghim, it's like there's this dude
who's like.
And he's still with us, livingin this over half a century, three
quarters of a century that hekind of created.
Yeah.
And he's.
He's kind of like, not thathe's stuck in a pre Dylan world.

(22:59):
Like, how do you move throughthe world like that?
I kept thinking about thatduring this film.
Yeah, me too.
Before this movie was an idea.
I was watching something withTimothy Chamolay and I thought, man,
he would be a good Dylan in a movie.
But that won't ever happen.
His casting never bothered mein the least.
When I found out, I thought,that's perfect.
Great idea.

(23:19):
I guess I figured out shortlyafter it was James Mangold and he
was directing and writing it.
I didn't even bother with atrailer for this one.
I was just like, all right.
I mean.
And I think news.
Timothy Chamolay had beentaking guitar lessons.
And then due to Covid, theyhad to halt shooting, which gave
him longer time to practiceguitar and harmonica.
And I was like, well, it'sgonna be fine.

(23:40):
He's putting in the work.
It's going to be great.
It proved out he even playedin the very specific.
It almost takes that longbecause he probably had to learn
to play guitar normally andthen, like, unlearn the things to
sound like Dylan in 1960.
Whatever.
My guitar brain.
The rhythms are so weird inthe way that he very.

(24:01):
He moved around.
It's almost like borderline.
Not good.
But it's perfect for the song.
No, it isn't.
Almost not good.
You're right.
He talked about working with adialect coach to get Dylan's cadence
down.
Chevrolet does a wonderful performance.
And it's the classic thing youcan say, which is, he doesn't make

(24:23):
a caricature of.
Of the guy, but yet it's verymuch Bob Dylan.
I.
It's a line that he straddlesthat I can't quite describe.
I mean, the first test, right,is him.
It opens.
We get him walking through NewYork City.
And I think when theyannounced this, we texted amongst
ourselves and I.
My opinion was, I will go seeanything that's high budget with

(24:46):
people smoking cigarettes inthe village in the 60s.
Yeah.
Well, that's what this is.
Yeah.
If you're wearing a nicewinter coat.
Oh, boy.
Yeah.
Boy, howdy.
So we're already checkingboxes before we even get to that
hospital scene.
And they kind of throw them inthe deep end.
Like, okay, this is.
What's your.
How much Dylan are you goingto bring to your Dylan?

(25:07):
Yeah.
This movie made me emotionaland not.
Not just tears.
That's not the only emotion.
There is rage.
I was smiling.
I was smiling the whole time.
You know, I won't ever see ayoung Dylan unless It's in clips,
but the movie helps you tofeel like maybe you did.
It was hard for me not to singalong too loudly.

(25:31):
And that 1961 New York.
You're there.
The sets were amazing.
High dollar.
I just loved how he boiled the director.
Boiled it down to.
It's.
It's about the personal versusthe political.
For me, it was.
There's a lot more to sayabout the film, but this is what
I could carry away from it.
You know, what the peoplearound Dylan didn't see or couldn't

(25:53):
fathom was that when you startblending ideas or taking something
from one piece and another.
Something from another pieceand you combined it into something
maybe new or maybe hybrid,then that is kind of political.
Yeah, absolutely.
Through that they couldn't seepast their own nose and.

(26:14):
Or at least that's the waythey're presented the film.
That's such an interestingpoint, Blaine, because like, we often
think of like, for example,like the impressionists.
Right.
Like, oh, they just paintedpretty pictures.
But it was actually like aradical break with like, tradition.
Right.
So just like painting picturesin this way of the countryside is
a statement.
Right.

(26:34):
Like just putting forthsomething new in art is a statement
in and of itself besides anyother statement.
I like that they.
They showed that early on when he's.
He's working the radio and hewants to listen to everything.
Yeah.
You know, Seeger's.
Maybe less and.
Can we shout out to.
Edward Norton was so good inthis movie.
Edward Norton was so perfect.

(26:55):
No, perfect as Pete Seeger.
You get the sense that PeteSeeger's probably a really sweet
guy anyway.
He was very.
For the downtrodden.
Wanted to help people ofAmerica and that's how Edward Norton
plays him.
But also Norton plays him witha sweet sensibility that.
That's probably a little overthe top.
It's a little over baked.
But it had to be because ifit's the movie.

(27:18):
Because somebody's heart hasto break when Dylan.
When Dylan goes electric.
Well, and you need.
He's surrounded by antagonistsin that moment.
Right.
I love Lomax just getting thehatchet job there.
But apparently there reallywas a.
Yeah.
A physical altercation.

(27:39):
Yeah.
Between.
Between Grossman and.
Yeah.
Dylan's manager.
Yeah.
Who was kind of an.
At the time.
Well, that's the thing in reallife, every.
Yeah.
I mean, what if you.
I want to make a sweepingblanket statement for the effect
of comedy and possibly this film.
I don't know how many peoplewho didn't have some connection to

(27:59):
some CD underworld were in themusic business in 1960.
Whatever.
I'm not saying they were anorganized crime, but I'm not saying
they weren't either.
Yeah.
Ye.
So I mean, it's just.
It's.
Yeah, of course, everybody's an.
You know, and I think givingMaking Seeger the.
Like you felt for him, likethe moments when Dylan sees him and

(28:23):
he kind of like.
Like winces like, I don't wantto talk to this guy right now.
Like, your heart kind of hurtswhen you're watching the movie.
Yes, but you understand both sides.
And I think, yeah, you do.
They used, you know, if theyhad said, like the arc of the film
is Dylan comes to New York andthen he goes electric at the end.
It's like, okay, that's good.
But then the way that theylayered relationships on top of that,

(28:48):
it took it to another and you can't.
I mean, sometimes friendshipstake a real arc like that.
But, you know, it takes somefictionalization to have a lot coalesce
at the same time.
So, you know, I'm sure they blended.
You would know better than mea few stories to create that outcome.
But yeah, that blurring.
That doesn't bother me at allbecause it was.

(29:09):
It just captured the heart ofit so much.
And the other thing it didgreat, that is to your point about
the.
The political side of it andthe radical side, you know, we texted
about.
For me growing up, it feltlike we were like beyond the end
of history, you know, like the.
The Berlin Wall has come down.
Civil rights is decades in the past.

(29:30):
All these things.
And it's like, oh, all ourproblems are solved.
And clearly the last 10 yearsenough, whether it's, you know, the
invention of the cell phonecamera so that you can show that,
oh, a lot of bad shit's stillgoing on, or having a.
This is.
This is not a political side statement.
A convicted felon is going tobe president.
You know, this is complextimes we're living in to then see.

(29:55):
I think this movie coming outnow was way more impactful than if
they had done this when theydid Walk the Line.
Like, what would it have beenlike if they.
If it had come out during 04.
When walk the Line, it feelsmore like a victory lap then, like,
look.
At, like, how good we did.
Like boomers kind of lookingback and saying what a crazy time

(30:15):
that we lived through.
But, man, we solved all theproblems and now it's like we live.
And obviously 2004, we wereinvading the Middle east and it was
complex then, but, you know,that scene of Joan Baez trying to
figure out what to do duringthe Cuban Missile Crisis.
Yeah.
And she finds Dylan playing ata club.
It's like, this is who thisguy was, you know, we think I got

(30:37):
a greatest hit CD with Blowingin the Wind and just wore it out
when I was 15, 16, but.
And loved it.
But you don't have the fullpicture of, like, was physically
frightening to go play a civilrights march, or it was physically
frightening to, you know, theythought that the nuclear holocaust
was about to happen.
And he grabs his guitar andgoes down and plays.

(31:01):
Did that actually happen, Blaine?
No.
It's a great.
That's great symbolism, though.
Oh, yeah.
It worked perfectly.
In fact, he would probably have.
He was working on its HardRain's Gonna Fall.
Probably not so much Mastersof War around the human missile.
Like a few days after, if I'mnot mistaken.
A few days.
Maybe a month or two.
But to go down to the clubwhile New York's evacuating, essentially,

(31:26):
and tried out a masterpieceand then get some.
It's the end of the world, baby.
Action from Joan Baez.
I mean, what a.
What a run of film that is.
And what a great actor.
Monica Marie.
Oh, gosh, I'm blanking on theactress's name who played Joan Baez.
But she was.
I thought she was great.
The film really gives you an.

(31:47):
Almost puts you in the shoesof this feeling.
I still have it to this day.
Donovan, have you ever beenenergized and happy about what you're
doing, and then about midwaythrough it, you're still energized
and happy, but you think ofthe next good thing that you're going
to be doing and you're like,oh, fuck, this thing I'm doing now.
I want to go do this next thing.

(32:08):
Have you ever been, like, youkind of had to be caffeinated in
a way to do this, Adam, haveyou ever experienced where you're
just like.
And it happens on stage a lot,where you're like, I'm playing the
fuck out of this song, but Igot a verse left.
I just can't wait to get thenext song.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like everycreative project ever.
Yeah.
I think I'm riding thisgoddamn wave and I want to get to
the next thing because it'sgoing to be awesome.

(32:29):
That was Dylan then.
Yeah.
It's like you're eating apotato chip and already thinking
about the next one.
Yeah, well, kind of.
I mean, that really lowers myanalogy, but thank you.
Yeah.
If you're Like a creativeperson, you almost have to have that
like.
Like you just forget aboutanything bad that was associated
with creating it.

(32:49):
And you're only thinking aboutthe good and the rush.
And I mean, hasn't that was.
That's what it was happeningto him.
He felt the.
He felt the energy of playingwith a band and it's like, nah, man,
I can't wait to do this.
But y'all were wanting me toplay Blowing in the Wind again.
Fuck.
I mean, even the scene where he.
The composite character thatElle Fanning plays.

(33:10):
And I thought she did a finejob in that role.
Well, I don't think she was acomposite so much as she was just.
Dylan himself made them changeher name.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I don't know if they maybe mixsome elements.
Obviously she's.
Remind me the.
The woman's name who's on theCOVID of the record.
Susie Rotolo.
Yep.
And Dylan wanted her privacyprotected somewhat.

(33:31):
She must have been a prettyimportant person to him.
She was an activist up untilher death, so she.
She lived it and breathed it.
But when they're having aconversation and he's.
I can't remember what songthat he's playing, but he's kind
of just noodling around on achord progression and like, you're
like, oh, my God.
He's the kernel of Don't ThinkTwice is like, happening before our

(33:53):
eyes, you know?
Yeah.
It had some of the, like theBeatles doc feeling of like.
Like they're playing Don't LetMe down and it's not quite there,
but I know what they'remissing and they don't know yet.
And I love that Mangoldmanages to present Dylan as a.
As somehow, which was true, too.
An absolute child, but yet thecoolest grown up in the room.

(34:17):
Yeah.
I don't know how they do that.
The bomb bath that Dylan had to.
Have had, you know, the littledetail of, like, he can make coffee.
How did he learn how to make coffee?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Dylan going electric wasprobably something he was going to
do no matter who said not to.
In fact, he probably did itbecause some said not to.

(34:39):
And.
But the thing that they giveus, which is true to the story, is
that it scared him to death.
I love that he didn't know if he.
If he had ended his burgeoningcareer, but he just wanted to try
something and then hecontinued to do it for about a year
and a few more months in theface of booing.
Not just for one night, butfor a year.
And you don't get to see thatin the movie because it would be

(35:01):
a three hour movie.
But, you know, he.
He goes over to England andthey're booing there and he.
And he gets so fucking sick ofit, of the booing.
At first, he's very funny with it.
And then by the end of the.
The whole world tour and youcan hear it in some of the recordings,
he's just like, fuck y'all.
You know, I know what I've got.
This shit's actually in tunenow, you know?

(35:23):
Yeah.
That.
That complete dedication to.
On both Sides, as the fans andas him, the creator.
Like, he's completelycommitted to an idea, but the people
there are so passionate aboutthis other idea.
You know, there is no passivepart of that relationship.
And I think that's nostalgicfor all of us where, like, I couldn't

(35:45):
imagine that any music wouldshock anyone at this point.
Yeah, that's.
That's the trick.
That's something that peoplecan't get their head around.
Even me sometimes.
I asked some students of mineabout Dylan Friday and they.
They hadn't heard of him.
And when I explained it tohim, you just can't project how much

(36:05):
of a bomb that was, howshocking that would have been.
Yeah, I mean, there's no.
I can't.
I'm sure that someone whoactually lived through it would say
the same thing about trying totell me when I was in high school,
you know, even though, like, I.
You can intellectuallyunderstand that.
But this was the first.
Not the.
Because I've seen the clips,but the movie did such a good job

(36:26):
of making that real.
Does the movie make that asimportant as it probably was for
you, a viewer?
I thought so.
Yeah.
I thought.
I mean, because there's abunch of ways to do it, right?
Like, you can make him.
We've already kind of touchedon it.
Be like the unapologeticbadass hero who just rolls in and

(36:48):
does this thing.
And I'm right, you're wrong.
This is the future.
Deal with it.
But you get both sides.
Mm.
You understand why thetraditionalists want to.
You know, they've worked so hard.
Now they have.
The Chosen One has come toelevate the art form to the masses.
And it's working.
But now he's going to betrayus and he feels weird about it.

(37:09):
And I mean, it's.
It's so well done.
Like, it's.
Yeah.
It had to happen, you know.
Yeah.
You couldn't live.
Like Dylan was beginning to live.
He was getting accostedeverywhere and that had to have been
exhausting and still is, Iwould imagine.
But I mean, the scene of himgetting punched in the face at the
bar.

(37:29):
Yeah, I don't.
Did that actually happen?
I.
I've never heard.
Never heard if that's ever.
I doubt it.
I've heard like, beat forBeat, the Celebrity Store.
Like, Tom York famously gotpunched in the face when he.
Oh, did he really?
Yeah, he, like, went out to apub and this was when.
Because I would assume Britishattitudes toward fame are a bit more
resentful than ours.

(37:49):
But it's.
It's like, well, this was New York.
It's.
I don't know that they woulduse the word uppity, but like, you
know, who do you think you are?
Yeah, kind of.
I punched this famous guy inthe face, you know.
Yeah.
I think that there's a goodmoment in the film where it's.
It encapsulates that Dylan'sresponse to it.
He's surrounded by all thesefans, many of whom just want something

(38:11):
of him maybe to punch andmaybe to see him, maybe to.
In our day and time, it wouldbe take your picture with him.
Though they did have cameras then.
And a girl says, you know, Iwon't be at the venue because it's
sold out.
And he rolls down the windowjust a slight crack and he says,
I'll sing louder.
And that.
And that's just pure Dylanfrom that era.
One, because it's hilarious.
Two, he's acknowledging I'm nolonger doing acoustic.

(38:34):
And three, it's also you, but you.
Wonder even that the times areso heady and confusing.
And here's this guy who is alyrical genius and seems almost like
a prophet or something.
And people are such, again,maybe more predisposed to take big
ideas seriously.

(38:55):
Like, oh, here's like asignpost in this confusing landscape.
And then he starts moving.
So you understand both whyyou'd want a piece of it and why
you would be upset.
And that's.
This is all.
Obviously we're kind ofveering into biographical Dylan stuff
now, but this is completelywhat the film is about.
To me, the.
The key to the film, I think.

(39:15):
I think it might not be asgreat as it was, but for a four minute
scene.
And that was Pete Seegersitting down with Dylan in the early
morning.
He's brought coffee into theNewport Hotel and he says, we all
had our teaspoons, puttingdirt, try to balance the scales.
And you brought a shovel.

(39:36):
And I was like that.
I don't know if thatconversation happened but that makes
everything important that'shappened and everything that comes
after.
All these actors were cooking, though.
You know, there's the Joan Baez.
I thought Elle Fanning did great.
There's a.
There's a really good scenewhere Joan is trying to figure out

(39:56):
they've just slept together.
And Joan's trying to figureout, are we.
Is this.
Is this a date thing?
Is this.
You know, what's.
What do we have here?
And she asked him somethingalong the lines of, what do we have
here?
And since he's playing guitar,he says, I don't know, which could
be an answer to the song he'splaying or what.
Or what.
She's asking him about theirrelationship, and then she just simply

(40:19):
turns it on him by saying,well, let me have that song.
Then the relationship with thetwo women, obviously, you're.
You're gleaning differentthings from each one.
The scenes where they're doingthe photo shoot in the apartment,
and it's like he's gotten a$10,000 check, and things are starting
to accelerate.
And that's kind of like an oldconceit in these sort of biopics,

(40:42):
right?
Like, whoever's with youbefore you're famous, now all of
a sudden, that's a strained relationship.
The way that they did withthis one, that.
That final conversation whereshe said, you're like, the guy.
I feel like the.
One of the plates that the guyspins on Carson.
Oh, yes, that was so good.
And Dylan even gets in a linelike, I kind of like that guy.

(41:03):
Yeah, he said so.
Exactly what he said.
It immediately grounds him in this.
Like, he just loves this weirdAmericana, circusy kind of stuff.
But then she says, I'm sureit's great to be the guy spinning
the plates, and that just hitsyou like a ton of bricks.
But she says, but I'm one ofthe plates.
Yeah, that was just such agood version of.

(41:23):
Of that arc that we're kind offamiliar with.
And then the Baez arc of himimmediately giving her for her songs
being too pretty, essentiallytrying too hard.
I thought that was, you know,somebody who was kind of the top
of the.
The heap, then meets the one,you know, and it's like, obviously

(41:45):
she's gone on to be prettygood herself, but.
Sure, she's had a great career.
Do you have thoughts on Cashhere in this version of Cash?
I thought this was.
Might be the ultimate versionof Cash.
I.
I have heard that they triedto get Joaquin to do it at first.
Oh, really?
That would have been fascinating.
That would have been pretty good.
But I think it worked out forthe best.

(42:05):
I think it worked out better.
I love that you just get thisunhinged, you know, on speed and
drinking.
He's not reformed.
You're not going to see thatart close.
No.
And, you know, the tramp.
Mud on somebody's carpet or so good.
That's a.
That's a real line he wrote ina letter to Dylan, and he stood up

(42:26):
for Dylan a lot.
That's not a little.
It's a little overplayed inthe film, but he.
He still did it.
I think he wrote an openletter to Village Voice or sing out
where he wrote in capital, all capital.
Let.
Let the man sing.
Dang.
I really wish they would havetried to mimic the one apocryphal
story I've heard is that whenDylan first met him, though, they

(42:46):
exchanged letters.
Dylan look is so small.
Dylan's a small guy and Cashis a big guy.
He said he walked all the wayaround him and looked while looking
up, and he said, yeah.
I like the way that theyplayed it because they're.
It's almost like they havebeen, like, Instagram buddies that
they met in real life, youknow, and, like, Dylan's almost a

(43:09):
little bashful about it.
Exactly.
At first, but.
Yeah, that was great.
All right, last thing.
Final scene, Dylan visitingWoody in the hospital one last time.
If you're gonna make a biopicthat doesn't try to.
A lot of time, I feel likethey get too clever for their own
good.
Right.
Just tell me a really good story.
Do it sequentially, even.

(43:30):
You don't have to wow me with,you know, filmmaking here.
That's a great way to leave off.
Yeah, it was.
It was bittersweet, but, yes,I thought it was very sad.
It was a little overwrought,but still sad.
Yeah, You.
You could have conveyed thatidea a thousand different ways.
But to have Dylan visit Woodyin the hospital, give him the harmonica

(43:53):
back, and then kind oflovingly look at him as if to say,
I made my decision.
Yeah.
I can't.
I can't come back from it.
Doesn't mean I don't love you, though.
And then the jump cut to thereally loud motorcycle, and we know
where that goes.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, he's stillriding the motorcycles, right?
Or he was.
Yes, he is.
So we.

(44:14):
We have a buddy, world.
We have a buddy who internedat a studio in Louisville where they
said, dylan's coming.
Yeah.
And, you know, he's.
He's the lowly intern sothey're like just be out of the way,
blah, blah, blah.
And they had a garage attachedto the studio.
And he said when they.
Him and his posse pulled in,the building shook from the motorcycles.

(44:36):
Jeez.
Well, let's shift gears intothat's so funny into some more scary.
I suppose the details from thelatest from director Robert Eggers.
His take on Nosferatu.
Y'all have at it.
Tell me what worked for youand what didn't.
It's been noted as being maybetoo slow, maybe a little dilatory.

(44:58):
What do you think?
I almost don't feel like I can be.
I didn't watch it with thecritical eye.
Does that make sense?
You just watch it for fun.
Not that I'm saying like I satdown, I was like, okay, turn my brain
off more.
Is like this movie put me inmore of like a sort of mood than
movies.
Anything else.
Yeah.
And that.

(45:19):
And if I'm just like.
If I'm in.
I find that really hard to analyze.
I think the term vibe has beenjust like run into the ground at
this point.
But this was kind of a vibe piece.
You know what I mean?
You.
Even the points that it wasmaking, you feel them as much as
you.

(45:39):
Which is a credit.
I mean, it's a good movie, but.
This may be too much.
But like spiritually with thefirst, I feel like it linked up kind
of with the.
The 22 Nosferatu, where it'sjust like I don't need like if you
just show me like a successionof im that don't necessarily make
perfect sense, but like havethat kind of weird like dream or
nightmare sense whereeverything seems hyper real or elevated.

(46:03):
I'm like, oh, that's gonnawork really well for me.
I do think the.
If we get into specifics of.
You're talking about dream sequences.
Nicholas Hoult, I think isalways good, especially if he's playing
the kind of in over his head.
Maybe he has like selfishmotivations, but is not like a bad
guy.
He just kind of.
Even when he played Tolkien,it was.

(46:25):
He was like kind of naiveplaying that role.
When he goes to the villageand then kind of dream sees or does
see that weird sacrifice thinghappen and then goes into the castle.
All of that sequence was sosurreal and so great.
I thought there was just.

(46:46):
Yeah, a lot of like the coachand like just the.
The horror and uneasiness of it.
It felt like a movie was like,oh, I don't need anything super explained.
Like this is just like.
This is a malevolent forcethat humans are afraid of, but kind
of don't know.
Like they come up with theirown explanations for it, right?
Like, oh, he's a.

(47:06):
He's a magician who sold his soul.
But I think the, like.
Like him just kind of being amalevolent force.
At one point, Orlok himselfsays, you know, I'm just appetite.
I'm just hunger.
Like that.
That's kind of scary to me.
Right?
Like, like, like there'snothing more here.
There's nothing interesting.
There's nothing more than justlike this hunger.

(47:29):
Did it say somethingdifferently than the two previous
versions for you especially,maybe in the context of the years
they.
Were produced, just because onit, walking out and this was a con.
I think I texted you all this,but I was like, that felt like an
older movie.
That's right.
You did say that.
It didn't feel like a moviefrom 2024 necessarily.
I don't.
I don't know what that meansand I'm not going to justify it.

(47:53):
That does make sense.
It's been noted for its gore too.
Is that right?
Did I.
Have I read a headline that'sright about that.
There's a few gory scenes.
Did it feel ridiculous withits gore or something?
Because it seemed like.
So the headline was alludingto that.
I think, by and large, atleast in my recollection, it does
a very good job of kind ofletting you imagine the worst of

(48:16):
what is happening.
Right.
Like there's a scene where,like, he's very clearly finished
killing some children and youdon't really see the.
The deaths, but you see himtoss a body, a silhouette of a body
aside.
And the way he feeds is.
Is fairly grotesque as well.
And hot.
And hot.
Oh, super hot.
I mean, we haven't evenstarted talking about the.

(48:36):
The sexuality of all of it,which is fairly intense is what I
have to say about it.
Is it.
Is it more sexualized than the.
Than the other two?
More overtly, yes and no.
It would almost have to beright in 2024.
What they do kind of have areally good thread running through
all three of them is like, youreally get this kind of like, gross

(48:59):
sense that this thing is likea disease.
Yeah, like, like.
And you almost have the, like,like it's kind of like horrible for
anyone, much less a youngwoman, to be touched by this, like,
kind of like, revolting thing.
And he is purely revolting.
There's no.
At no point is like a handsomeman standing there.

(49:19):
No that, like, changes bynight or whatever.
I Gotta tell you, I loved theway they did Bill Skarsgarden as
Orlok.
And I feel like they made himlook almost like a, like a.
Like an End of Napoleonic wars ulan.
Like he's, he's, he's.
Even for the time that he'sin, like he's a little old fashioned.

(49:39):
You know, like he's kind of upwith the times, but he's.
And I just thought like hejust is placed so well there.
I thought that was.
I really liked.
And the.
Some people might be veryannoyed by it, but the.
He had like Darth Vaderbreathing which worked for me too.
Where it's like this body is deceased.
Yeah.
Like it should not be touched.
It's.
It's a corpse.
This guy is walking around andhe's dead.

(50:00):
I mean we want to throw ouributerol at the screen while we're
watching it.
Yeah.
Clear those lungs out, buddy.
It did.
You know you said earlier in the.
The initial talk about this,it feels like an 1840 whatever Gothic
piece.
It did work as such.
Like a little, you know, thethings contracted the whole time.

(50:20):
Right.
And you obviously there'sthings like with how seriously are
we taking women and theircomplaints about medical issues that
are being talked about.
That absolutely.
That, that felt of.
In a good way of his time thatyou're throwing the absurdity of
that into relief.
And then you got somebody likeWillem Dafoe showing up, which I

(50:40):
think I texted you that hemade me laugh.
But I'm not sure that he wascompletely in control of when that
happened.
That is exactly.
My feeling about, about hischaracter is like I was delighted
to see him because it's justlike he's, he's out of his mind.
This is great.
He's always going to kill it.
And he.
Yeah.
As insane as they made him asthat, that expert kind of figure,

(51:06):
like he was unhinged at all times.
You know.
And it was the classic kind oflike this guy's crazy, but these
are crazy circumstances.
We just have to accept him.
Right.
I thought it was you saidearlier talking about different films
approach to the effect on thecity that it has.
This one had such like.
Like I thought of Camus, thePlague the whole time.

(51:28):
Like everybody's kind ofsuffering through this thing.
That a man accompanying hiswife and two children to the graveyard
is like not even the saddestthing that's going to happen that
day.
Right.
Just a Hellscape and theplague imagery really felt like Camus.
And also Herzog I think did areally Good job with that.

(51:49):
Willem Dafoe is like.
He's like Nicholas Cage whenhe shows up.
You know he's never going togive it less than 110%.
Like you just don't reallyknow what's going to.
I love it.
I found him very entertaining.
And yeah, the, the creepy sexstuff, very good.

(52:10):
We're in spoiler territory.
Is there just blatant sex in it?
Not as such.
You're being coy here.
There's.
There's penetration.
So at the end of the movie,Lily Rose Depp's character, basically
Willem Dafoe realizes thatlike they've got to destroy his resting
place and they've got to keephim out passed on.

(52:32):
And like he literally can'tresist her.
So she's like, yes, come to me.
So she's naked on the bed andthe way he feeds is he kind of bites
you right on your breastbone.
So he's like this tick or buglike over her and he makes these
really gross like gulping noises.
Okay.
And so, yeah, it's pretty.
It's pretty gross.
It's pretty intense.

(52:53):
It's good.
It was good.
And then.
And then he does.
Stays out.
Right.
And his body crumbles into.
To this horrible desiccatedthing and she dies as well.
So he dies on top of her?
Yeah, he dies on top of herwith like this dried up body.
Yeah, on top of this.
This lovely young woman.
And it's pretty gross.

(53:14):
I think it works well like alizard brain level.
Yeah.
No.
Well, we all want to go out.
There's definitely some lizardbrain in universe decision making
with Nicholas Holden.
Her like him trying to like retain.

(53:35):
Is retaining ownership the wayto explain why they have that angry
sex?
Yeah.
Interesting choice of words.
Yeah.
You know what I kind ofwondered at the end of that scene
is because there's been somestuff that didn't really.
Did it even happen at allbecause we've seen her mental state,
has had some dreams that seempretty real.

(53:58):
I like the ambiguity.
I don't think you can proveone way or the other.
I like the ambiguity of it.
Give me.
We should have done thisearlier, but give me a five star
ranking here.
Give me a letterbox.
Five star.
Three for me.
Yeah.
Okay.
I don't know if I want.
I would even say I probably not.

(54:19):
Five for me.
Like I don't want to oversellit, but I don't want to undersell
it either.
It's maybe four, four maybe.
Maybe higher.
If I watch it again, it couldgo up or down, but we'll say a tentative
four.
For me, I like this.
This is a tentative four and a recommendation.
You can watch it at home.
I liked seeing it in thetheater because of the production

(54:42):
and the sound design.
I felt like that was very fun.
Also, I went to it by myself,which is great because then I can
eat as much popcorn as I want.
God can't see me in the theater.
God can't see you.
I think that's what Pete WeeHerman got in trouble about in the
1990s.

(55:02):
Our last movie is one that'sactually not as much about God, maybe.
I don't know.
It's streaming on Peacock.
Play along, if you will.
Earlier, we said we'drecommend it.
It's conclave.
It's about a secret votingtechnique for the Pope.
That's what conclave is, andit garners more and more mystery
upon each scene.

(55:24):
I, for one, am happy that atleast one religion is able to have
a little fun at its own expense.
Wasn't this commissioned bythe church?
Do Catholics believe in Jesus?
Are they the.
Is it a religion Catholics?
Your evangelical is showing Blaine.

(55:45):
He was raised Baptist.
He can't help himself.
Guys, I went into this movienot knowing a damn thing about it
other than the name and thatit, you know, the commercials would
say it's intriguing and that,you know, that kind of thing.
And I.
And I glossed over that.
Whatever.
So early.
Early and often the music didthe heavy lifting for me because
I would go, oh, wait, what is it?

(56:07):
Is it really this kind ofmovie that deserves this kind of
music?
Because again, I thought itwas just going to be about a conclave.
Maybe there was an issue hereor there.
This guy didn't get along withthis guy.
There's a little back biting,and God damn some back biting.
All right?
But there was.
There was a lot more.
I loved it.

(56:28):
Some high tension.
I really appreciate a movie.
I watched it with my wife last night.
I really appreciate a movielike this because there's.
There's a particular scene inhere where I got to lean over to
my wife and say, did you get that?
It's the Holy Spirit.
And then she divorced me.
Well, you hate Catholics.
It's been.
You've said so on this podcastof how much you just hate Catholicism.

(56:50):
So let's go on.
Let's get into that.
When you go back through thisone, I really do.
I really wish I would havegiven it the attention it deserved.
Which is not to say I wasn't,because I was watching it it's propulsive.
Every scene leads to the nextone, and then the next thing leads
to the next one.
And it's perfectly well donein that sense.

(57:11):
I wasn't playing on my phone,but I was taking kind of notes on
my phone.
And I would get lost in a noteand be thinking, how could I fray?
And then I'd look up at thescreen and go, oh, God, I missed.
And I rewind it for, likethree minutes, and it's a.
That happened.
Well, the other thing that itdid to maybe exaggerate that is you
got some subtitles, but notall of the subtitles.

(57:33):
That's true.
At first I was wondering, do Ihave the subtitles on?
Do I need to turn them on?
And I think that that is likea clear indication that this film
respects its audience enoughto, you know, if you're.
If you're listening to people,Cardinals in Rome talk.
Yeah.
They may just lapse into Latinat times, and you don't know what

(57:53):
they're talking about oryou're supposed to infer or you didn't
catch all of the, you know,someone speaking in Spanish just
off screen or Italian or whatever.
And you.
Yeah.
Are meant to just infer, gleanwhatever they're.
They're actually getting at.
Everything in this movie feltas though it's done nicely and they
trimmed the fat perfectly.

(58:14):
Early on in the film, you getRalph Fahn's character speaking to
the cardinals there to casttheir votes, and he's talking to
them about doubt.
It immediately took me back tothe play in the movie of the same
name.
So I was trying to figure outwhere is this movie wanting to sit.
I quickly came to theconclusion it's, oh, this is a movie

(58:35):
that's about politics andreligion where there's not really.
It doesn't matter who God isor what you think God is.
This is about the.
The political.
Well, and it's.
That's what I thought early,by the way.
Let me.
Let me just say this.
In the first 30 minutes,things change.
And.
And, well, so I feel like, like.
I said at the top, you'realways with.
With films that center on religion.

(58:57):
You're trying to figure outhow seriously that film takes the
religion it's talking about.
And I think this was done.
These were allowed to be veryintelligent men who had power agendas
in a political sense.
But also, I mean, you see someof them completely break down over
what they would consider amoral failing or, you know, Ralph

(59:18):
Fine's character is a cynicalread and a different outcome would
have made him this puppetmaster, this master manipulator the
whole time.
But by the end, through hissubtle acting and the script, of
course, it's just this guy whowas trying to do his best, or that's
the sense that I had.
Me too.

(59:38):
Same.
And if you had a lesser cast,I don't think that you can pull off
all of that nuance.
Like, it took a.
Just a stacked list of actorsto make this tick in the way that
it did.
It was kind of underneath allof it.
And I think that this is whatI pulled from those great actors,
too, with the kind of, like,doubt and certainty.

(01:00:00):
Is this almost bigger questionabout what religion or metaphysics
or whatever gives you.
Right.
Like, we want that certain.
Don't we want that certainty?
We want to be very certain.
And it's scary to havesomebody who's like, we're.
I don't know.
Like, we'll figure it out, I guess.
And I felt like there, youknow, there was that kind of good
push and pull, too, because Iwas the whole time watching it, I'm

(01:00:23):
like, you know, I'm.
Obviously, I want some ofthese people to be pope and some
of these people not to be pope.
Yeah.
But it's hard.
But, boy, it's hard to found areligion on uncertainty.
Yeah.
And like.
Like a.
Like a something.
And by that I mean likesomething that works in and of this
world politically, notnecessarily in the ideal form, if
that makes sense.

(01:00:43):
Can I give you all a.
On that point?
Did y'all catch the.
The reference to Yates thathappens when.
Yeah.
Yes.
So absolutely.
When Tedesco tells Lawrence,things fall apart, the sinner cannot
hold.
And he's referring to losingthe Latin liturgy as like, the founding.

(01:01:05):
That's the center for him.
Right.
And that you need.
It's like Donovan saying, in away, you.
Especially towards the end orat the end when he gets up to give
his speech about, like, theenemy is at the gates.
This is not theoretical anymore.
We need certainty.
We need all these things.
I went back and.

(01:01:26):
And read just the stanza thatthings fall apart, the sinner cannot
hold is in.
The rest of that is mereanarchy is loosed upon the world,
the blood dim tide is loosed,and everywhere the ceremony of innocence
is drowned.
The best lack all conviction,while the worst are full of passion
and intensity.
Which, of course, ends upbeing the man who brought up the

(01:01:47):
Yates in the first part, whichis so good.
That's so good for a movie.
I can't think of many filmsrecently that have sent me to, you
know, the bookshelf in thatway to catch listeners up here.
Ray Fonz plays Thomas Lawrence.
Stanley Tucci's Bellini, who is.

(01:02:10):
It seems like a viable and,and quite acceptable candidate for
Pope.
It seems as though that's whothe audience should be rooting for.
John Lithgow plays CardinalTremblay, who matter might not be
okay, but he seems to havesome sort of secret which Cardinal
Lawrence is going to figureout for us.
And there's the, the head nunsister and her.

(01:02:32):
That's the Isabella Rosalini character.
And she kind of helps out Rayfonts to, you know, she, she gives
him access to the computerafter he tells her, you know, I really,
I really need to know what theprevious Pope on his deathbed or
in his last days had done with Tremblay.
What's going on?
Why, you know, there's acouple of secrets I need to know
so I can be the dean here.

(01:02:53):
This felt like a movie to mefrom the early aughts.
Remember how movies felt backthen, like they didn't have to have
bombast, but the, the, theexcitement was in who was going to
do what next.
You mean movies for adults?
Yeah, I do mean movies for adults.
I've never seen one.
So the Catholics is a religion.
They're making them less and less.

(01:03:15):
Well, they, they set it upearly on with Tucci's Bellini saying,
can I keep this chessboard?
Right.
And he says, I played with theHoly Father.
Did you ever win?
Oh, oh, God, no.
He was always eight moves ahead.
That's right.
And then.
Which makes you think he's just.
How much of what to follow didthe, did the dying Pope kind of maybe

(01:03:36):
try to lay out?
And it's, it's playing withyour expectations the whole time
because you have this guy showup who nobody knows, and he's, he
says, I'm a cardinal.
And they, they investigate andyou know, they've already.
Shortly after that, they againinvoke the eights, where something's
slouching towards Bethlehemand we're supposed to be a little
anxious about it.

(01:03:56):
I don't know.
Yeah, it gives you some baked in.
Suspense because you just,you, you're suspicious of everybody.
Yeah, you're suspicious.
That's it.
You're thinking, is ThomasLawrence the worthy one?
Is this new mysterious figurefrom Kabul?
His name's Cardinal Benite.
Benitez.
He seems genuine, kind.
Is he worthy?
He seems very quiet, very.

(01:04:18):
Forgive my word choice here,but demure he seems.
But then you get Stanley Ticci.
He Knows the ropes.
He knows that I can be, youknow, 80% progressive, but still
kind of be 20% good oldfashioned Catholic.
And that's where we need to bein this day and time.
Well, I love that he draws theline in that.
The.
I'm going to call it the movie theater.
When they're in the movietheater talking, he says, yeah, you

(01:04:43):
can say all of that.
I hold these liberal policies.
Let's not talk about women.
Yeah, yeah, Exactly.
That's the 20% of us.
Yeah.
Yes.
That was another thing, themovie just to jump on women dead
for me, that I thought, youknow, it is very tense and you're
not sure who to trust.
Just the setting with the cut,with the art, with every, with the,

(01:05:07):
every the Vatican City settingand the, the way that, like the women
just kind of like serve these men.
It's like, oh, there's likereal power over real people.
Like, there's power and moneyinvolved in this.
And without like saying it, Ithink it just showed that so very
well in a way that really,really worked for me.
Well, who wouldn't want to bein charge of this?

(01:05:28):
Right?
Yeah.
And again, that's given weight.
Like the.
Now we look at Vatican Cityand think just the millions and millions
of dollars, billions ofdollars wrapped up in it and the
ostentatiousness and all these things.
But it's beautiful art.
And they're making thesedecisions that they believe, or at

(01:05:49):
least a lot of the men in theroom believe, that God is trying
to work through them toaccomplish something.
Which is like the headiestthing you could possibly participate
in.
Oh, yeah.
But at the same time, they'rebeing served by these women who are,
you know, all along there'sthe great establishing shots of,
you know, their play too, withlike, it's funny to see cardinals
on a bus.

(01:06:10):
Yeah, yeah.
That they still do have toindulge these modern things.
But, you know, the women goingearly to cook all of these, they
just do such a good job and they.
There's two moments that drovehome the power dynamic you're talking
about, Donovan.
One is when Cardinal Lawrence finds.
Goes into that office andpretty well insists that he talk

(01:06:32):
to the Nigerian nun and pullsrank and does it.
That's really the only timeyou see him throw his full weight
around and you get a glimpseof like, oh, he could be kind of
a monster if he wanted to be,that this position would allow him
to do that.
But he's not.
And he's actually the otherbrothers probably kind of think he's

(01:06:53):
naive when he startsinvestigating Tremblay.
Yeah.
Lithgow's character.
And he's sending hisassistants essentially out to investigate
it.
It's like.
Is he sending them into actualphysical danger?
Because these are very highstakes for these men.
A different movie that becomeslike a high speed chase through Rome.
Right.

(01:07:14):
For sure.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Then there's Daime and he'sone of the possibilities.
And it's.
He's.
He would be a greatrepresentation for the.
As Pope because he would bethe first black gentleman to be the
Pope.
But he's strictly anti homosexual.
And it.
So it's like every one of themhave this.

(01:07:35):
I said before mystery.
But they all have this alsonegative component to their personality
that's really hindering them.
Who do you want to end up with it.
That's a little of whatpropels the action.
As the film goes on.
You notice that Ray findsThomas Lawrence character has something

(01:07:55):
weighing on him.
You really.
You see it in the openingscene because he tears up.
He gives them one tear.
Weeping silently over thePope's death.
But it feels like more thanjust sadness.
Yeah.
I mean, it's like you think they.
Were getting it on.
Well, he breathes very heavilythroughout the entire movie.

(01:08:19):
His.
His Thomas Lawrence character.
That was a choice to have thataudible breathing.
Did you.
Did no one notice this but me?
It's like every scene.
I don't think I noticed it.
He sounded like Tony Sopranoin everything.
They did that and the otherclever sound thing.
Pure aside to what we'retalking about.
But did you notice how many.

(01:08:40):
How much bird song there was?
Yes, there was.
I did notice that.
And the.
Yeah.
And the breathing.
I'm telling y'all, go back andwatch it.
It's the breathing.
But the bird song is alwayssomewhere else.
Right.
Because they're sequesteredand they do such a.
Like, it's always in thesister's room where they're looking
at the computer too.
It's really.
Well, there's that.
The actual bird, but you canhear life happening outside of the

(01:09:04):
buildings that they're in.
And obviously it reallyhappens with the almost on the nose
moment where the breeze blowsthrough because the bomb has been.
Yeah, the hole's been blown inthe building.
Yeah, that's.
That's the Holy Spirit.
Blaine, what explains Ray Fonzcrying once more?
And the only time you see himcrying is when the Pope dies and
when he goes back into theroom and he holds his glasses completely

(01:09:27):
works.
For me as like this was animportant relationship that he Lost.
Yeah.
And also, it seemed like.
Brother, I don't.
I'm not gonna express thiswell, but Brother, Father Cardinal
Lawrence was really, like,kind of upset and disturbed by the
unromantic practicalities ofbeing a religion in the world.

(01:09:48):
Like, for me, right.
Like, I'm involved with mychurch and, you know, we are sort
of.
You know, I go to church formany of the same reasons that I read
books and watch movies andappreciate art.
But, like, at the end of theday, like, also, we have to, like,
keep the lights on.
You know, like, people.
People fight over money.

(01:10:08):
It's.
It's grubby.
It's not.
This isn't money, but, youknow, this is power.
You know, people get mad.
People.
It's very unromantic.
And like, Father.
Father Lawrence is almost like.
It's a.
It's a.
It's upsetting to him thathe's been told that he's going to
be the manager, that thesespiritual things are maybe for other

(01:10:31):
people.
He's just gonna.
He's just good.
He's good at spreadsheets,basically, which was.
Interesting because you don't.
You don't fall backwards intobeing a cardinal.
Like, how has he not had thiscrisis before this point?
I find it striking how muchthe film mirrors our own conversations
as a public.
When we're electing officials.

(01:10:52):
Yeah, the easy read on this,because it came out, I think, two
or three weeks before theNovember election is which.
I reject that read on the movie.
I don't.
You know, it's a Germandirector, a British writer.
It's clearly an international film.
Obviously, American electionshave international importance, but

(01:11:13):
this is the conversationthat's kind of endless, right.
Like the.
The conservative impulse of,there's real danger.
Let's circle the wagons.
And I've, in my reading,people said in the book, Tedesco
gives that speech at the end,and if he just cut himself off, he
probably would have beenelected Pope.

(01:11:34):
But he liked the sound of hisown voice too much.
Yeah, I could see that withthat character.
You know, honestly, it's greatto finally see a film that takes
a strong stance and theperfidiousness of Italians.
This.
And Daisy Miller, all of.
To me, it's a movie about howwhat secrets have more weight than

(01:11:57):
the other secret.
Everyone has their own.
But then you end up withBenitez getting elected.
And I suppose we can go aheadand get into this ending.
It's the one that's driven allof the right wing crazy, which, of
course, easily avoided becauseI never look at that stuff.
But apparently there's so muchonline from Catholics and right wing

(01:12:22):
who keeps saying that thismovie had an agenda.
Which I would like to say, ifthey're listening, you're a fucking
idiot.
Because that's not a valid complaint.
Every movie ever made has an agenda.
Yeah, yeah, I would agree withthat, Blaine.
It's like even Happy Gilmore.
I'm sorry, have you seen maybethe wizard of Oz or.
Every movie's got an agenda.

(01:12:43):
So that's an invalid complaint.
So, yeah, you get this ideathat Benitez has gone to Geneva.
And then when they say itwasn't a hospital, it was a clinic,
of course, my mind, My idiotmind goes, oh, he's addicted.
He's got a.
He's got a cocaine addiction.
He went to a clinic, a rehab facility.
But no, he went to Geneva notfor an illness, but for a laparoscopic

(01:13:07):
hysterectomy.
And for those who don't know,that's a.
It can be a gender affirming operation.
It helps a persontransitioning to become a man.
It can be that Benitez says hedid not accept the operation, so
he still has the uterus and ovaries.
I think.
Yes.
It just flips the entire wayyou see the.

(01:13:30):
The movie and your mind goesback to the beginning and put places,
everything in order.
Well done.
You know, you.
You applaud it for where itgot you there.
And it did so without pullingthe rug out from under you.
And it did so to me, peoplethat are.
I think back to George W.
Saying, I don't do nuance, youknow, like.

(01:13:52):
Like, we couldn't tell.
Like, if you're upset withthis, someone having an actual medical
condition that is free ofidentity politics and sexuality in
2025, to me, is a callback tothe idea of certainty that they're

(01:14:13):
playing with the whole time.
Right.
Yes.
It's wonderfully done.
Yes.
And I perfectly fit.
I just don't think.
If that upsets you so much, Idon't really.
I don't know.
I'm sure there are also a lotof Catholics who would be upset by
the idea of, like, the threeyoung women at the end who appear
to be in high spirits walkingacross that courtyard, being the
parting shot as, like, this isthe future, you know, and there are

(01:14:36):
people who wouldn't like thatso much less someone with complicated
gender would.
Would be very problematic to them.
So it's.
I just.
The outrage over it.
It was fun to go through.
People who saw it in theaters,they were surprised by how reactive
the audience around them wasto things.

(01:14:57):
Who.
You know, they talked aboutpeople standing up and leaving at
that point.
Which is comical because therewere like four minutes left in the
movie.
Yeah, there's.
If that.
Yeah.
But also, I don't understand.
Culture war has a concept.
So some.
Yeah.
And I'll agree, like, yes, ithad an agenda.
As Blaine said, every movieever has an agenda.

(01:15:17):
Right.
Like, it has an agenda.
It has a point of view.
And I did.
And it was like.
It was a little on the nose.
Right.
But like, we.
The.
The kind of reference to.
Right to Pentecost with thewind blowing through.
And then Lawrence is kind ofinspired to cast his vote and this
thing happens.
And I kind of like, at leastfrom the perspective of my faith,

(01:15:39):
it made me think exactly of St.
Paul when he's like, you know,there's no longer male or female.
Like, there's nothing.
There's just people in Christ.
Really.
Completely.
Like, blows up all theidentities that we have.
And he's like, God's going todo this new thing.
And so there's.
And like.
And you don't understand itbecause nobody can.
And I kind of like that whereit's like, oh, no, this is going

(01:16:00):
to be the new thing.
Like the things that wethought we knew.
Old broken.
To quote our good friend Lee,old broken things are fixed.
It also says to me thatnothing matters with dogma.
This is the way it's got to be.
So if Benitez is the kind,gentle, wonderful soul who will lead

(01:16:21):
us into the new centurywonderfully and pleasantly, that
doesn't matter because, yeah,he didn't have the surgery or how
he was born.
You got to be dogmatic.
Yeah.
There's a real.
There's a really bad side toit where we have.
We.
We have reimposed all of thesestrictures that we're told we're
free from.
Yeah.

(01:16:42):
But at the same time, themovie, you know, I remember in maybe
the 2000, 2005.
Right.
People election after JohnPaul II.
Yeah.
People talking about, youknow, why.
Why is the church.
Why haven't they elected anybody?
Or where are these issuesgoing to come up?
Blah, blah, blah.
And a representative said, theCatholic Church thinks in centuries,

(01:17:04):
not months or decades or anyof these things.
Not in a way that makes itunreactive to, I don't know, pedophiles
being amongst their ranks.
So there's not great aspectsto that.
But.
But I think in this.
It did a great job showing,like, this is this institution full
of mystery and tradition.

(01:17:25):
And all of these things, and you're.
You're shown that these arenot inherently bad things before
the progressive conclusion, I think.
Yeah.
And you're even.
To go back to Tedesco's littlespeech, you're kind of sympathetic
with him for a second, and youthink, oh, this is how fascism happens,
because these people stillhave dust on their clothes from a

(01:17:48):
suicide bomber.
Well, they do let Tedesco bethe coolest of the bunch when he
hits the vape.
That was hilarious.
I love that.
That was so good.
He does hit a vape right inthe middle of proceedings.
That was so funny, man.
It is.
That scene's worth repeating.
Is Rossellini in the movieafter she does her curtsy and walks
out?
Nope.

(01:18:08):
That's her mic drop, right?
That's it.
Yes.
Yes.
Fantastic.
Yeah.
Yes.
Excellent use of her andexcellent use of her decision making
to.
To do this, although I didn'tknow she was retired, but.
Yeah.
One reason I did love themovie, though, is that Megyn Kelly,
who's really into the notionthat the letter Y may certainly be

(01:18:28):
a vowel, she.
She claims the movieembarrasses Catholics.
She said a film like thiswould never be made about Muslims
or Islam because she.
I guess she suddenly caresabout Islamic religions.
Why?
I guess because they.
I don't know.
She didn't say why.

(01:18:49):
She just says that that wouldnever happen.
And that was an attack on the.
Filmmakers on the film havingan agenda.
An agenda to embarrass Catholics.
I think the Catholics came outlooking pretty good in this movie.
I.
I would suggest Megyn Kelly,like, watch anything by Abbas Kirastami
from Iran, who is notnecessarily making a movie about,

(01:19:11):
like, choosing a nextreligious figure, but it's like,
is making movies about Muslimsvery much in conversation with Muslim
life.
And they're beautiful.
And they're beautiful.
Donovan, he's great.
And also, he kind of went tojail for it.
I have bad news, Donovan.
She.
She's not gonna.
She's not going to.
She's not going to.
She listens to this podcastregularly, but she won't.

(01:19:32):
Nobody with those kinds oftakes is engaging with it.
Right?
You're just.
No, it's just that.
No, she just sees the black.
She sees the news or.
Or the reactions.
It's that.
Just add water.
Outrage.
Oh, yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
No, everything is veryeconomical almost to a fault when
it comes to Benitez's election.

(01:19:52):
I felt like that just happenedin a snap of the fingers.
Again, it could be my fault.
I could have been taking anote at that moment and just looked
up and like, whoa, he'selected suddenly.
I mean, there's a little bitof, like, he gave a great speech,
and then they're like this,let's make this man.
Yeah, he did.
Yeah.
It happened pretty quickly.
That's the only thing I dockedit for.
I told you earlier I wouldtell you.
It's fine.
Yeah, I agree.

(01:20:13):
I agree with you, Blaine.
And that's also fine.
To me, that was the one.
The speed with which that happened.
And then, you know, they rushhim into that side room, the famous
room where they dress him andall this stuff and.
That's right.
Yes.
Lawrence bust in.
That.
All of that did feel a littleout of step with the rest of the
pacing.
It did a little rushed, alittle tacked on.

(01:20:33):
I'm glad y'all felt that, too,because I was worried I missed something.
I liked the way that theyrevealed that he had won.
Where you're thinking, peoplestart clapping and Lawrence stands
up and it's.
Is he about to accept their.
Their vote?
And then he begins clappingand looking along with everybody
else.
I thought that was great.
But the.
The way they arrived,especially to be so exact about a

(01:20:56):
lot of the traditions.
And then, like Donovan said,let's make this man our leader.
Even though they have noconcept of his religious politics,
you know, his theology.
It just seems a little.
You don't even know.
I mean, he gave a greatspeech, and I agree with it.
But, yeah, like, he's.
He's been.
For.
For good reasons, but he'sbeen a cardinal in secret.

(01:21:17):
Right?
Yeah.
So you, like, sort of knowabout his career, but, like, you
don't know about him as aleader, as an administrator, the
outsider, or.
Or pastorally.
Right.
Like, you don't know what hispastoral care is going to be like.
I think he got over the topwhen he said that he wanted the Gulf
of Mexico to be the Gulf of America.
You beat me to it.
I was about to say he said helikes popes that don't die.

(01:21:38):
That's what got him.
They don't get captured.
Yeah.
All right, gentlemen, we'regoing to wrap it there and hope you
enjoyed our conversation anddissection of these three movies.
It's rare we did three movies,and even more rare that we do two
that weren't streaming yet.
Shamala is open to doing atrilogy of Dylan movies, he said
this week.
Has he really said that?

(01:21:59):
Yeah, he really said it.
They should do this likeBoyhood, where it's like they wait,
they just film like 45 yearold Timothee Chalamet.
And then like they wait 30years and it's like 75 year old.
I think that's a great idea.
He's the host of SNL this weekend.
He's also performing.
And is he gonna do Dylan songs?
Don't know.
We haven't heard.
What if he brings Bob out?

(01:22:20):
Geez, come on.
I feel like that's not beyondpossibility at this.
It's not beyond possibility,but no one would know, including
Timothy Chamon.
Up until five minutes, he just show.
And then, you know.
Can.
Can Timothy change keys?
That's important.
Probably.
Hey, man, I'm telling you,when he played gospel plow or like
fixing to die, you know, hewent in as Dylan.

(01:22:41):
I was like, oh, yeah, he tookhis lessons.
No, it was good.
Where they dropped D stringand was running on down it.
Oh yeah.
I.
I hope that his monologue thisweek is just his thoughts about the
College Football Playoff.
That would be cool too,because I liked him on game day.
I like.
I've always, like, what era of.
I feel like everybody shouldgo if they made a film about a specific

(01:23:03):
era of Dylan.
What are you going with?
I already have my answer.
Dude, you got to hit me with that.
Religious era.
What the was happening.
Oh, yeah.
Action then.
Yeah, that's my answer too, Blaine.
They would really.
That would.
That's fascinating.
Like, is he doing cocaine andworshiping God or is he like really
into it?
Like not drinking, not doing nothing.
I'm with God.

(01:23:24):
I really want to know.
He was pretty angry at his exwife for not letting him be a Christian
when he wrote the lyrics.
So maybe some of that in there.
Wow.
Yeah.
So is that your era, Adam?
No, I would have him and itwould exclusively be him and Lanois
riding around New Orleans.
I mean, just hijinks.
Yeah, hijinks in New Orleans.

(01:23:45):
That's it.
I'd watch it for the three of us.
I'm Blaine and we will.
We're on our weekly bullshit.
Thanks for listening.
Talk to you next Tuesday.

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