How 'The White Lotus' Improved, The Internet Is Wrong About 'Severance,' and New Shows

Taking It Down begins with host Blaine welcoming new listeners as well as a piece of homework for all interested (0:01)

To kick off the non-spoiler section this week, Blaine gives Adam a list of many new shows that neither have seen to determine what would make for a good episode of the podcast (1:59). 'Celtic City' on HBO shows what good sports documentaries should do (3:05). 'Deli Boys' on Hulu and why it sounds interesting (7:17). 'The Righteous Gemstones' begins its fourth and final season on HBO (8:45). 'Daredevil: Born Again' may not be enough for the wreck of Marvel and Disney+ (10:11). The upcoming 'Dope Thief' has potential on Apple TV+ (11:33).

Also in the non-spoiler section, Adam shares why 'Gladiator II,' now streaming on Paramoutn+, may be more funny than intended (14:16). To end the section, the two both agree about the third episode of 'The White Lotus' on HBO (17:041).

For spoilers and the part of the podcast to avoid each week if you aren't caught up on a series, Blaine and Adam think that the third episode of 'The White Lotus' improved upon the first two and the effect of a bold, conversational choice (20:15).

Finally, the two talk about episode eight of this season of 'Severance' where they break apart episode eight to show that most of the internet is wrong that it is boring (46:01). Answers abound for "Sweet Vitriol" and the two hosts loved it.

If you want to participate in the discussion, and you sure should, head to The Alabama Take site and leave a comment.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You know you're listening toTaking It Down.
You clicked on us.
We're one of the Alabama Takesfamily of podcasts.
We're the TV and streamingpodcast for the site where we offer
non spoiler thoughts you canuse for recommendations on what you
may like.
And after the break, we coverspecifics on an episode or two of
TV or even an occasionalstreaming film.

(00:21):
I'm Lane, editor in Chief ofthe website and usually Adam and
Donovan are both with me as co hosts.
But today it's just Adam.
If you get into this episodeand you find we've been interesting
or brightened your day orgiven you some insight, here's a
bonus for you.
To expand the Joy, head tothealabamatake.com click on podcast

(00:42):
find this episode, which maybe near the top of the podcast listing,
if you're near the releasedate and drop us a comment on the
episode's page.
What'd you enjoy?
What aspect would you like tocomment on?
Is there something we got wrong?
Is there something we shouldhave expanded upon?
Is there something you can addto the conversation?
You can, I'm sure of it.

(01:03):
That's the place to let usknow as we're increasingly less and
less on social media platforms.
So that's the spot to see usas well as much more of what's going
on with the Alabama take andour family of podcast.
Let's get Adam in here andwe'll begin the show this week, which
will include a list of showswe're debating on watching, little

(01:26):
bit of non spoiler talk on theWhite Lotus and then full blown spoilers
after the break for the WhiteLotus Season three and Severance
Season two, especiallySeverance's eighth episode of that
second season.
Come back to those timestampedsegments after you've watched Alabama

(01:49):
take projection.
Adam, it's it's like the daysof yore where it's only you and I
talking to one another.
That's where it all started.
That's where it's gonna endfor me.
No third seat this week, whichmeans there's no Donovan.

(02:12):
I mention it because we mayhave new listeners.
They may want to know theformat of Taking it down, which they
also want to know.
We're in non spoiler territory.
Let's converse the ebb andflow of TV and streaming tv.
We go weeks without much andthen we get this deluge of things
that we may want to watch orthat could be intriguing or could

(02:35):
work for this podcast.
We won't be able to get all ofthese in our Future podcasts certainly.
And we may not even get intothem personally in our lives.
When a mic isn't in front ofour faces, I want to list out a.
It feels like a plethora ofshows that we haven't watched and

(02:55):
do a temperature check on youon how you feel about.
Okay them and how they sound.
And you've probably heard of many.
HBO and Max have a new sportsdocumentary airing week to week.
We're not averse to such andI'm especially not averse to this
one.
It's Celtic City.
I've seen it playing BillSimmons documentary argument that

(03:18):
the Celtics are the best NBAteam over the history of the NBA.
Bill Simmons is a Boston apologist.
Shocking.
Put that square peg in a round hole.
So this is.
And I've been curious aboutthis because this is a pure or a
long view of the franchise.
That's what's happening.
Yes.
I think American sports, Ilove sports documentaries and I think

(03:42):
American sports in particularneeds a bit of myth making.
Like this or not like this?
I think like this.
Yeah.
I think one of the reasons,you know, a lot of people who live
in Alabama, live in the south,love college football and maybe NFL
doesn't resonate as much and Ithink part of that is the long history

(04:04):
the game was more establishedat the college level, first regional
ties, all these things.
I think the more we can selfmythologize our sports teams, the
more fun it is.
Yeah.
So you're pitching a 10 partdocumentary for HBO on University
of Alabama football.
Not necessarily.

(04:24):
Alabama's doing fine.
I think we need to Alabama basketball.
That would be a one partdocumentary, 30 minutes long.
No, I thought about this whenI, you know, I went to see the packers
play the Lions this year.
Lambo, you loved it, man.
Loved it.
You became an NFL affectionadobasically the last few years.

(04:48):
Yeah, to be honest, I alwayskept up with it.
But it consumed you there.
You really, you really bought it.
Yeah.
And like the, the shift of.
Of college away from what ithad been my whole life.
You know, with the new.
Obviously there's things thatI think both of the support pay the
players.
Great.
Sure.
Yeah.
And they will hopefully geteverything corralled back into place

(05:09):
and it functions like a sport again.
But yeah, just going somewherewhere like that team has been in
Green Bay for a very long timeand they have played the Lions for
a very long time and they'veplayed the Bears for a very long
time.
That's the kind of deephistory because you know, I'm also
a huge European soccer fan.
Oh, yeah.
So those are.

(05:30):
Those are deep rivalries withprofound connections to not just
the cities, but theneighborhoods they're in.
So any way that.
Right.
We can bring that intoAmerican sports.
I support it.
Versus building a new stadiumevery 15 years or whatever.
It's interesting.
A symptom of capitalism, Blaine.
Late stage capitalism.

(05:50):
Yes.
Well, I watch about 15 minutesof the Celtics doc, episode one and
definitely gonna watch it.
But they are your rooting interest.
They're my.
Yeah, they're my basketball team.
They kind of were my firstsports team.
Even before Alabama football,I was too young to get the ins and
outs of football.
It's kind of intricate.

(06:13):
Why are they only.
Why are they kicking the ballnow versus throwing it?
Why are they, you know, thisand that.
Basketball, you just dribblethe ball down.
Down the court, you try to putit in the hoop.
That's it.
I don't ever remember notunderstanding football.
My dad was a football coach atone point in his life.
Came up through.
It was just on all the time.

(06:33):
It was on all the time in my house.
But I was always like playingwith toys while it was on and thinking
basketball was so.
And this is funny to saycompared to football, but basketball
very.
Stop and start.
Why are they shooting free throws?
Why is that buzzer going off?
Why.
How do you run a play whenyou're running all the time?
But it's still with.
Even with free throws.
Put the ball in the hoop.

(06:54):
That's true.
But I mean, all you're tryingto do with football is put the ball
in the end zone while it's being.
But that could be a little.
But sometimes it goes out the back.
Yeah.
So automatically you're like.
Yeah, for a kid.
Yeah.
Now I did know when Alabamawon that that was fun and that was
happy.
So when I'd hear dad or say.
Or happen to look up and see.
Oh, we won.
That was good.
Good stuff.

(07:14):
Moving on.
Hulu has a new 30 minute showthat's getting some buzz in places.
It's deli boys described ashalf succession and half Guy Ritchie
movie about these Pakistaniguys whose dad has left them the
store due to dying.
And they find out that, oh,there's a lot more going on with

(07:35):
this store.
Illegal things.
Ah, yeah.
Intrigued by that.
Where is this store?
That's a good question.
Maybe New York.
Okay.
Yeah, that's a.
That's a good premise.
Yeah.
I got to figure out I'm goingto go on a mini rant here.
So I.
I dropped Spotify.
Good for you after.
After flirting with the ideafor some time and trying out other

(07:55):
services.
Cheers.
But my Hulu was wrapped up inthat subscription package.
Like, you could get the cheapversion of Hulu for like.
Like 99 cents a month or something.
So I got.
I got to sort out my Hulu.
Everyone out there, if you're.
If you're listening, justconsider making the switch.
If.
If only for the audio quality alone.

(08:16):
Switch away from Spotify.
That's what you're saying?
Away from Spotify?
Yeah.
Hulu perfectly fine.
This show sounds interesting.
Have you.
Have you seen anything?
An episode?
No.
No.
10 episodes.
They all dropped them at once.
You know, that can be daunting.
It's like, golly, 10 at once.
I plan to this week.
I'll give it a shot.
I think it does.
It's probably pretty good.

(08:37):
From the headlines of critics.
There's so much TV right now.
So much I'm not even done.
As we release on Tuesday, youknow, we record on Sunday.
Regular listeners know thatthe new and reportedly last season
of the Righteous Gemstones hascome to hbo, its fourth season.
So they've aired an episode.

(08:57):
I've been a pretty big fan of it.
I know that you kind of missthe flag dropping of that particular
race.
It's not that I don't thinkthat you are anti Righteous Gemstones
or anything.
Right?
No, just missed it.
There's so many things that I missed.
I think of, you know, wholeconversations happening around that.

(09:17):
Obviously succession is adifferent thing, but haven't seen
a minute of that.
Yeah, I haven't seen a minuteof Better Call Saul.
Now, succession is one ofthose where we as a group missed
even.
Like, Donovan didn't point usin that direction.
So we can blame Donovan foranything that we.
Donovan, okay?
Yeah, sounds great.
He's not gonna listen.
Well, hell no.

(09:38):
He'll never know.
Why would he?
It was so shocking when youdid listen, when you were awful.
We were talking about the IRAand Northern Ireland.
I listened and like I toldy'all, it was a little frightening
because it sounded really good.
And the thought of someonelistening to anything that I have
to say in an environment thatactually sounds legitimized, horrifying.

(10:02):
I still relish that compliment.
Y'all sounded great.
I'm so proud of that.
All right, so has Daredevil,Born Again, Disney plus?
Has it been seen at your house yet?
Has it been on the screen?
Frequent co host Natalie's ourMarvel connoisseur.
I feel like even.
Even Natalie has been droppedby Marvel.

(10:23):
I don't know that she iskeeping up at series to series in
the same way that we wouldhave immediately after Avengers ended.
Marvel for me is now become aI can duck in and out.
Probably watch the first two episodes.
It's the they released two onTuesday, if I'm not mistaken.

(10:44):
They'll release one a week.
It seems I'll probably watchthose first two and make a decision.
I like the character.
I like the actor Charlie Cox.
I'll make a a call you and Ihave intends on watching more of
the Netflix half hour seriesMo but the Houston denizen and Palestinian
who faces down deportationthat's kind of on the back burner.

(11:04):
I'm continuing the Pit, whichI wholly recommend.
We're eight episodes deep now,but that's quality tv.
I got a piece on the AlabamaTate right now about why I don't
spoil anything.
I don't even say.
I don't even say what it is,but I kind of examine what it is
about me that couldn't watch amany scenes in episode six.

(11:26):
If you've seen it, you knowwhat I'm talking about.
All right.
Last on my list.
Dope thief on Apple TV plusbegins Thursday or Friday this week
probably Friday.
Probably.
They have it in their packageto lure people who are coming down
off the severance seasonthat's ending in a couple weeks.
Does that ever work?

(11:46):
I don't know this one.
I don't know if I was watchingSeverance and I was planning on ending
my subscription after Severance.
This one could get me if Ilike the first two episodes, which
is what I would have watchedwith Severance by that point.
Can I tell you the only likeHBO used to be the obviously the

(12:06):
networks do this all the time.
Like.
Like you want to be theSimpsons used to always come on right
after the Super Bowl.
You know, things like that.
Like we want to retain thisaudience, but surely no one's really
paying attention anymore afterthe main event has happened.
Except hbo.
Pretty good at doing this andthey used to have pretty entertaining

(12:28):
mashups.
Girls immediately after Gameof Thrones.
And I'm watching both.
But man, the whiplash.
Yeah.
Nope.
And sometimes you need it.
Sometimes you did.
Sometimes it was a greatpalate cleanser.
But we're talking aboutwatching things on cable versus streaming.
Right?
And I don't know how much theonly thing that hooked me that I
would not have watched otherwise.

(12:48):
And I still have never watchedit enough to understand like the
the actual story arc or whoanybody is.
But I found myself gettingcompletely wrapped up in episodes
of Ballers back in the daywhen it played after something on
hbo.
But I don't know.
On a streaming service likewhen that program ends, I usually
just close out the.

(13:09):
The app.
Yeah, so do I.
But if you know it's there and you're.
And you're on the fence aboutcanceling for the month, for the.
For two months or untilseverance comes back, even then,
that might.
You know, there's something.
They try to plug something inthere a couple weeks ahead to lure
you say stick around foranother month.
I admire the energy of peoplewho are able to subscribe and unsubscribe

(13:34):
based on the shows they wantto watch.
I read an article about itthis week and it sounds exhausting.
I would rather just pay the$10 a month to not have to think
about it.
I know.
Which is completely privilegedwasteful thinking.
Oh, I'm grateful to be able todo such.
I used to not be able to.
There was a long run in college.
I did not have cable at all.

(13:54):
So anyway, dope thief on Apple tv.
Plus, it begins Friday.
And this one' soundsintriguing with.
It's got Brian Tyree.
Henry is.
I think it's main star.
But it's a story of twofriends who pose as DEA agents to
rob a house and that turnsinto some really deep, some prolonged,
maybe even something.

(14:15):
But now you.
But you've got a show orsomething you said you've been watching.
That would surprise me.
I watched a movie.
I don't know if it's going tosurprise you.
Gladiator 2.
You got it.
It's on Paramount.
I thought you saw that in theater.
Never.
Never made it to the theaterfor that one.
What's your score?
What's your grade?
I mean, I almost thought aboutpreparing a series of questions for

(14:37):
you to see if this would piqueyour interest.
You know, if you'd be into it.
I think I can just ask one Areyou intrigued by battles to the death
happening in a floodedcoliseum, complete with very, very
hungry sharks patrolling the waters?
The sharks, by the way, do notlook good.

(14:59):
Oh, CGI don't look good.
CGI doesn't look very good.
Or they're unhealthy.
They're underfed.
Sharks.
Sharks.
Not in good shape.
Really hungry.
Concerned about.
Of all the other bad thingshappening, animal rights in ancient
Rome.
Yeah, not for you.
Mm.
No, the sharks are veryhealthy and very, very athletic.

(15:22):
Very quick.
That's odd that you mentioned.
And the answer, I suppose ismaybe it's possible.
But the answer's not anoverwhelming yes.
It's not an overwhelming yes.
But you're not getting theremote in our house.
Yeah.
Because you loved it.
Like, if we see.
Like this looks like a reallyterrible disaster movie.
Yep.
That's been noted on thispodcast that you and really Natalie

(15:46):
has noted it.
It's like a cover band versionof Gladiator.
Wow.
But suddenly there are theseCGI sharks that look like they have
been copy pasted from like aSci Fi Channel end of the world movie.
Maybe malnourished.
Definitely bad cgi.
They look like they have beenworking out, these sharks.

(16:06):
Oh, bluff.
Yeah, they're good.
I had a friend whose opinion Ivalue say that Gladiator 2 was absolutely
great.
I really enjoyed it more thanI think I can say that was not a
good movie that I enjoyed.
Yeah, it cracked me up.
These sharks.

(16:26):
Didn't Donovan say this?
Or maybe I'm.
I don't know if he ever did.
I don't think so.
See, Donovan is the kind ofguy who would like have a problem
with the field maneuvers ofcertain Roman legions.
You know, like he knows too much.
Like, they would not have gonefor a flanking move there from that
position on such a.
You know, he knows.
He's an informationspecialist, Adam.

(16:49):
Professionally and personally.
Yes, I agree.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
When he.
When he told us this week hewas an information specialist, I.
I thought that.
I thought as a career or.
It's just.
Yes.
Some information we won't get to.
Until the spoiler half is.
We're going to cover severance.
So let's just put that backthere in.

(17:10):
In its eighth episode.
We're gonna talk very brieflyabout the White Lotus right here.
Third episode.
It's the most recent for us.
You guys may have seen thefourth one as you listen to us.
That's cool.
Before we specify those twoseverance and the White Lotus, let's
talk about the White Lotusthird one, titled the Meaning of

(17:30):
Dreams.
My quick non spoiler thing isit improved the season for me.
It should have been the secondepisode or even the first one in
a revised manner.
I could see that.
I don't know what theyaccomplished with the first two that
could not have been collapsedto allow this to.
You know what I mean?
Like.
Oh, I do.
That's exactly what I'mtelling you.

(17:51):
Yeah, yeah.
You've got to establish vibe.
Sure.
And maybe they're trying tolull us into nothing's happening,
but.
Yeah, that's true.
Maybe they didn't take intoaccount that their audience at this
point are all watchingeveryone with a keen eye and being
incredibly observant to whatthey do and say.
Could you imagine the pressureof that?

(18:12):
I can know no.
Does Mike White ride alone?
Because if he's doing that's a task.
The way that say, like severance.
They came up with a greatconcept and now are essentially fleshing
it out.
And obviously there's a lot ofpeople who think this is lost 2.0,
that they're not going toanswer questions, that they're in

(18:34):
over their heads, et cetera,et cetera.
White Lotus, you have arunaway success with something that's
completely self contained.
And aside from the idea thatpeople are going to be in one luxury
hotel, he's got to dream itall up again every time.
Yeah, that's tough.
You know, last week I think Isaid it's time to shake the template

(18:54):
up.
This most recent episode thatwe've watched, episode three, it
could still make me work oncemore, but I think if he does another
season, it's.
He's got a really play aroundwith, with some of the ideas he tends
to use as a, as an outline.
Well, let's get into spoilers.

(19:16):
But before we do, to give youa line in the sand, here's one of
our sets of friends who alsohave a podcast you might like.
Do you love music?
Do you want to explore classic albums?
If you answered yes, thencheck out Polyphonic Press.
I'm Jeremy and along with myco host John.

(19:38):
We rely on the patented RandomAlbum generator to pick an album
for us to review at the top ofeach show.
We have no idea what albumwe're going to be listening to.
That's what keeps it really exciting.
We did read real deep intothese albums, so if this sounds interesting,
come along with us on thisjourney because you never know what

(19:59):
you might find.
We release a new episode everyTuesday morning.
That's Polyphonic Press andwe're available on every podcast
platform.
We're back.
We're going to kick offspoilers with the White Lotus Episode
3, the Meaning of Dreams.
I noted that the soundscapedid gave more distinction in this

(20:22):
episode and I wrote that downbecause it was super weird that I
hadn't noticed it yet.
Plus I also noticed that itwas this combo between old instruments
and new ones.
Like if I may, like you woulddo on a guitar doing sounds like
that.
It's an odd statement, but Ithink that that alone made the episode

(20:47):
a tiny bit better.
If that's all it had done.
Are you experiencing any falloff with the show that is consciously
or unconsciously related tothe theme song not going nearly as
hard as it did in season two.
No, no, I'm fine.
Now that you brought up the sound.
No, no.
Maybe.
I don't know.
Did I had the volume set rightlast Sunday evening.

(21:10):
I have no idea.
But I was just like, man.
In between edits, there's someodd choices with the music, the sound.
See if it happens this weekbecause it's like these ancient,
maybe even Eastern pluckingstrings, and then you get a guitar
coming in with like a fuzz.
I'll keep an ear out.

(21:31):
I mean, that's one of thethings that elevated the show in
the first place in season one.
It wouldn't always be sound,necessarily, but, you know, they
would have what you could callcutscenes or B roll or whatever that
lingered longer than mostshows take the time to.
And the.
But the sound was alwaysreally good with it too.
And it was almost like theywere little slow TV or ambient pieces

(21:53):
set inside the program.
And I think that they're stilldoing a good job of that.
Okay.
Yeah, Yeah.
I don't know how.
How do you keep that fresh?
I mean, it's a silly thing tosay because, like, why do beautiful
things have to be kept fresh?
But it was so interesting inseason one, and now we're kind of
maybe accustomed to that happening.

(22:14):
Though I'm still pretty.
I have thought a lot about theenvironment, the almost suffocating
beauty of the kind ofrainforest, Southeast Asian setting.
I gotta.
Now I have to listen for the sound.
I'll crank it up this week.
I don't think that they haveto keep it fresh when other shows
aren't mimicking thatparticular sound.

(22:35):
Yeah.
Yeah, I think it's good.
Oh, we got a pretty funny bitfrom Mr.
Jetta this week as a commenton the Alabama Takes page for the
podcast.
He says, appreciate the shoutout, fellas.
It's an honor to be includedin the discussion.
Well, hey, we.
We love that you're a listener.
Three episodes in, White Lotusis falling a bit short of expectations,
he says.

(22:55):
And.
And I.
I agree, though.
I.
I'm happy that the thirdepisode was a little better.
He says the characters arealmost imminently hateable.
One of the few exceptions isthe hopelessly naive security guard.
He's already been attackedonce, but it seems like something
much more sinister is going tohappen to him at some point.
Belinda is an objectionable,but her character just hasn't been

(23:19):
developed much.
Her role will probably becomemore prominent now that she's identified
Uncle Rico.
And that's the part that gets me.
I love it.
And two more little tidbitswhich was fun.
You can stay at the hotel.
You want to guess how much a night?
I don't know, but I'm going toguess so.
The only thing I know aboutthis is that the.

(23:40):
Where they do all of thewellness stuff is a pretty considerable
distance away from the.
It's like a Four Seasons orsomething that they film at.
Right.
So we're talking about stayingin one of those suites.
Villas.
One of those suites.
One of those villas a night.
2500Am I way low?

(24:01):
15,000.
15,000 per night.
We're talking upper echelon.
We're talking the 1 percenters.
Like every time they go andshow the group of women gossiping
about each other.
Yeah.
It strikes me how big the.
The footprint of the placethat they are, you know, because
they're all looking at it.
So it.
Okay.

(24:22):
And the rat lifts to have thishuge space.
Yeah.
Anyone could live in more than comfortably.
Yeah.
The last info, which I didn'tknow that he offers is Walton Goggins
was bit by a snake during filming.
Huh.
That's not to be mean becausethe man's okay.

(24:43):
But that.
That's some funny, very WaltonGoggins shit.
Did you look into this whereduring the snake scene?
I guess.
Yeah, I.
I suppose.
And I did read an interviewwith this snake caretaker.
There's probably a veryofficial word for that.
It's probably what my daughterwill grow up to be.

(25:04):
The juxtaposition of intentversus result, which in the case
of Rick here, it's.
You know, he intended to behelpful to nature, but the result
would be a lot of those snakesare not native to Thailand.
He would be right.
Kind of sending them to theirdemise, probably.

(25:27):
And there's a certainecosystem about that you can't disrupt
too much.
The guy in the interview alsosaid that it was a pitiful scene
there.
And those kinds of shows aretourist trap.
Pitiful and barbaric.
Barbaric.
He was very struck by the ladyjust sipping on a soda eating some

(25:49):
chips there in the middle of asteak show.
I mean, that's the.
We're supposed to be disgustedby everything happening.
Yeah.
And we.
I was.
Yeah.
I mean in the.
Even the scale of the bags of chips.
They were not sharing onelarge bag of chips.
They each had their own.
Oh, wow.
That's a detail I missed.
I just remember packing hermouth full.
They didn't get this from thegas station for the road trip.

(26:11):
You know.
They're not the.
The lunch size, family size.
They were.
You buy them at the grocerystore and take them home for the.
The family, but they're justshoving their face full of them.
Yeah, it's.
It's there too.
Yeah, it's there to disgustyou and it's there to push up against
what.
What Goggins character Rick is doing.
It's disgusting and it'sindulgent and insensitive.

(26:35):
The whole thing is grotesqueand we already said barbaric, but
it's like maybe they'replaying a little bit with class.
Like, we instinctivelyunderstand that these people are
behaving badly, but the peoplethat we've spent all this time with
already are also behaving badly.
They're just rich and doing itin a different way.
Yeah, I think that's a greatclaim to make.

(26:57):
You know, our guy 87 Jettasays they're all hateable with the
exception of maybe Belinda.
I still think Chelsea.
Oh, I kind of like Chelsea.
I do too.
I feel like she's.
I don't know if they're likeplaying with a femme fatale is not
the right thing to say, butlike she's going to end up being

(27:20):
both stronger and wiser thanwe were led to believe in episode
one, I think.
Oh, yeah, she's alreadyshowing signs of that.
Yeah.
The interview with the steakexpert said that she would be in
the hospital for a couple days to.
I was shocked when she wasjust at dinner.
He did say that the bandagingwas accurate and that she obviously

(27:43):
didn't do anti venom becausethat would keep you in the hospital
for a couple days.
So maybe they're drinking.
Glass of wine.
Well, he says that maybe thesnake did not.
It gave a warning bite anddidn't release venom.
Gotcha.
Which, okay, feasible.
She nearly died two days in a row.
This vacation is not going well.

(28:04):
There are signs.
All right, here's my big, big question.
It's just hovering in my mindall week.
What's wrong with Greg?
I think there are a couplecamps here, maybe three.
I'm of one, and that's that heis less lively and it's due to his
illness.
Now that's not the camp I'm in.
But he is low energy.

(28:25):
He is sleepy.
Joe.
It could be a ruse that heused on his illness.
It could be a ruse that heused on his ex wife Tanya, whom he.
Yeah, like, had a hand inkilling, seemingly.
The other camp is that he's.
He's sick.
And then there's.

(28:45):
That was a Put on.
And then there's.
He's way more dangerous thaneven that death entails.
And I really would like to see that.
I get the feeling that it isthe third option, that he is really
dangerous.
Like a truly scary guy whodidn't bumble his way into what we

(29:06):
saw in season one and two.
That maybe there's a patternbefore that.
But I also think that can be true.
And once.
No, it's almost like you readinterviews with people who attain
a certain level of success.
You hear bands that, like,blow up and they get everything they
ever dreamed of, and then theylook around and they go, what do
I do now?

(29:27):
Oh, yeah.
So this guy has, until Belindashows up, gotten away with crime.
He's done crimes.
He has money.
Enough money to jet set aroundto these fancy places.
And he just looks miserable.
He looks miserable.
He looks sick.
Because you're still gonna beyou wherever you go.

(29:47):
Yeah.
You had to do horrible thingsto attain this.
And was it even remotely worth it?
Yeah.
You're telling me he didn'tget all that money from the blm,
the Bureau of Land Management.
Maybe he took the buyout.
It's hefty buyout.
Yeah.
Tim Ratliff is tired of allthe calls and notifications from

(30:09):
the government about how he'sgoing to go to jail for some sort
of business fraud.
And he makes his whole broodgive over their electronics.
I count myself as one whoneeds a phone detox.
And I include the entirety.
Rest of the world in that statement.
But I still felt incrediblyitchy watching the fam give their

(30:30):
phones, watches, computers, iPads.
There was something in thatscene I felt like, ooh, that was
a good.
Moment to hold a bit of amirror up to us to say, you watching
this show, you enjoy a senseof superiority over these people.
Envious times that they areliving in such a way.
But you know, you're like,these people are assholes.

(30:52):
And I know it and the otherpeople watching know it.
But also, I would struggle togive up my phone.
At least I'm not like that.
And then they give up their.
They struggle to give up their electronics.
And I suppose it was thecomputer part.
Like, I would.
I think I'd gladly hand overmy phone for day two.
Three.
It's the computer.

(31:13):
It's because.
Because I don't spend 17 hourson the.
On the computer screen.
I'll check an email, type itup, get out of the room.
Sure.
I'll tell you what I would miss.
This is, you know, people jokeabout, did I even eat that meal,
if I didn't take a picture ofit, was I even in this place?
If I don't have a photo of methere, that sort of thing.

(31:34):
Yeah.
Did I even go anywhere?
If I wasn't getting onWikipedia to look up all of the places
that I went past, you know,the monastery, I would need to know.
To be digging through thefootnotes on Wikipedia.
Really.
It'd be tough.
But when they give it up and the.
The women, particularly in thefamily are very excited about this,

(31:59):
you think, man, what a.
That that is true luxury tohave enough money to not be able
to worry about people gettingin touch with you and just disconnect.
Because in their usual realitythat's a possibility.
Now, that's not a way.
I've considered it.
It's a luxury to be able to do that.
What makes it a luxury to.
Because we.
We live in a.
And maybe it's a byproduct ofbeing a musician.

(32:23):
And I've talked about thiswith other musicians.
You almost feel like you haveto be.
If you're away on.
You're on call at all timesbecause if you.
You just never know when something.
Things have broken for me atunexpected times that were a good
financial windfall.
So if you can't answer, whatare you going to miss?

(32:43):
You know.
But then you use that as anexcuse to just continue engaging
with the bullshit part of the phone.
So to be like, I got a pile of money.
I'm probably going to continuemaking my pile of money is going
to make me more money whileI'm not looking at my phone.
What an enviable position.
Yeah, good way in some ways.
But to me, this episode provesthat when you get people off their

(33:07):
phones and on drugs, thingsget so much more interesting.
Tim pops one of his wife'satavans and he likes them.
And who does it give me a couple.
It won't be that long.
That brother Tim will need apill for his heartburn.
He'll need a pill for cholesterol.
He'll need a pill for his depression.

(33:28):
Somebody ought to write a song about.
That every time he gets thefeds phone call.
Yeah, yeah.
We're supposed to believe anycomment on Tim becoming, you know,
seeing instantly he likes the Ativan.
It's fun on a few levels, boththat it's funny and you just.
You get the sense that he kindof hates his wife, you know, or is

(33:51):
like sick of her.
And so for him to take it andbe like, you know, a part of his
brain is like she was right.
Yeah.
She's on.
Yeah.
It get humor for me.
Is that how quickly, like, hewakes up?
He stumbles a little and thenhe's just like, dig it.
Where's them peels?
It's usually not quite like that.

(34:13):
I thought they did a reallygood job with the stress.
I know you weren't into thephone calls in episode two.
Yeah.
But you maybe don't.
Do you care at all about his drama?
I don't think I do.
Unless it involves Rick.
Again, no, I don't.
You don't care about the phone calls.
You just want to see Rickblowing smoke in his face.

(34:34):
I want to see he and Rick, youknow, either they either need to
come to a head and maybe, youknow, argue or, you know, take it
physical or maybe just sitdown and realize.
You and I, we're a lot alike.
Yeah.
Both doing a little of thisand that.

(34:54):
I think I'm more entertainedby his business failings than.
Than you are.
Wishful thinking.
Wishful thinking that he'sgoing to get his people.
Certain people in America will.
Yeah.
Yeah.
No.
Yeah.
Again, you're in thisluxurious place, and possibly that
pile of money is not makingyou money.

(35:14):
It's burning back home.
And you're could beapprehended by federal agents when
you land back in America.
That'd be a good time.
But, you know, you see a partof the oldest son, Saxon, who we
all detest at this point.
Yeah.
You kind of see his.
It humanizes him a bit, Ithink, to.

(35:36):
To see him so desperate and,like, willing to accept his dad just
bullshitting him on the fly.
Like, he can't.
He can't see that he's beingmanipulated because it's this guy
that he inherently trusts withhis life.
You know, there's someArrested Development there.
The show.
Or just as a term, both.

(35:56):
But as a term, like, you know,you would think a guy.
How old are we supposed tothink Saxon is?
Mid to late 20s?
27, 28.
Yeah.
Starting in his career.
Probably should have figuredout that his dad doesn't have all
the answers by now, but.
But does it?
Very naive on that front.
He's naive.
We're supposed to believe thisenergy master who's helping the three

(36:18):
ladies that he's Russian.
That guy's Russian.
He has the.
The shipping skyline tattooedon his.
But he doesn't sound Russian.
And I get that people can losetheir accents, but he dips in and
out of that one heavily.
A lot of people are doing itthis season.
Are we?
Are we Here to judge people's accents.
I am.
I'm not judging it.

(36:38):
I'm simply saying that hedoesn't sound Russian and that alone
makes him red flagged.
He's.
He's not on the up and up,this guy.
You don't think so?
No, I do not.
He's sneaky.
Piper visits the monastery again.
Can't get in for a meetinguntil Friday.
You know, for a gal who'sthere to do some work and writing
on a Buddhist monk, she surehasn't been there much or tried to

(37:00):
schedule anything that seemslike day one thing.
She does go on day one, right?
She does go, but she doesn't try.
Yeah, right.
She's playing the classic,like, yeah, I'm different than my
family, but also I can live ata pace where we're paying $15,000
a day to be somewhere and I'llworry on day three about, you know,
scheduling the meeting thatI'm there for.

(37:22):
Yeah.
I was surprised at such ablatant use of Trump.
Usually they only sayRepublican or conservative because
it, I suppose it helps in longterm viewing.
You know, someone watchesseven years from now catches up about
this a lot.
Okay.
It was, it was shocking.
It shocked.
And I am not the guy who says,let's leave politics out of this

(37:46):
thing, you know?
Yeah.
I think for the reason thatyou said, like, is this going to
date it?
Is this going to.
It probably won't when he getshis third term.
Oh.
And it's not because this issuch a.
Everyone forever will knowthat this was an insane time, even
if things calm down or not.

(38:07):
I would hope that at somepoint in my life, the United States
is not as divided as it is nowin rhetoric.
But we will always remember,you know, that that means these people
almost cannot be friends.
It might have more impact to aviewer 20 years from now if they
just so happen to go back andwatch it, which is, you know, that's,

(38:28):
that's quite the ask.
Yeah.
But if that happened, theymight think, oh, shit, this woman
voted for Trump.
I've heard bad things aboutthat guy.
Maybe what shocked me is notincluding politics, but including
a brand of it that is forevera moving target, you know, like,
who the hell knew?

(38:49):
How could you know whatTrump's going to do the week that
this episode airs?
You know what I mean?
Like, it could be fairlybenign or there could be like a nuclear
weapon in the air while theshow is on the air.
He could be praising anastronaut lady's head of hair.
We're not mad because he's not funny.
I'm not mad because he's not.

(39:10):
I'm telling you, the Dana, theDana Carvey line is the best interpretation.
I want to live in a worldwhere he's always running for president
but never winning president.
That's pretty funny.
Just giving us the one liners.
Yeah, you, you thought aboutthis a lot, so give me some more.
What about that conversationat the table?
Did you want to say?

(39:31):
It's a send up of what I haveseen women on social media say is
a unique brand of female friendship.
There's a certain, like,cattiness or other things that we
use to describe femaleinteraction and emotion, possibly
in a misogynistic way for enemies.
But that's a, that could be a.

(39:51):
That's me more universal whatI was.
I think that it, it can beuniquely female, but also just true
of.
You know, we, we talked thisweekend about the fact that, you
know, when I look at my phone,the most recent text, most of them
are not people who live within100 miles of me, you know, that my
friends are far flung and thatyou can know a version of them that's

(40:15):
always connected to the timeand place that you coexisted in.
And then say you may go visitthem or meet in a neutral space.
And you're like, wow, thisperson is.
This, this entire human beingis a little different than I remembered.
Or they have changed becausepeople change over, over time.
I think it's interesting thatthey're playing with this idea of

(40:37):
like, how well do you know someone?
Not long after the same friendwent up to Victoria Ratliff and said,
oh, we spent time together atthat baby shower.
And Ratliff is like, why do I care?
You know, that was 10 years ago.
So that's, you know, when yousay Trump, you're dropping a bomb
into whatever scene you'reworking in.

(40:58):
And we really haven't seen itdone in fictional worlds like this
that often for as much of thebandwidth as he's taken up in the
last decade, there hasobviously been illustrations of tensions
between progressiveconservative, different social views.
That's been explored left,right and center.

(41:18):
But to just say his name.
Maybe it was a genius piece ofwriting because we're talking about
it now and it was so.
Oh, I think it worked.
Jarring that scene.
Word.
And Kate never does truly admit.
Right.
She never says yes, which isexactly what somebody.
Who.
She does all of the defense mechanisms.
Oh, it was real world shit.

(41:40):
Yeah.
And it's framed in what yousaid, real world where she's describing,
oh, I go to church.
And they're kind of surprisedby that.
And that kind of classic.
And this is a thing that youand I have to do as people who live
in Alabama or else we'd go crazy.
It's like, these are very goodpeople a lot of the time who, friends,

(42:01):
even friends, certainly atleast respected co workers or community
members, whatever, who forwhatever reason vote in a way that's
completely inexplicable to me.
But like, how they deservehumanity, you know, And I would expect
the same in return when theydon't understand why I think the
way that I do.

(42:22):
But trying to give otherhumans grace for a second and then
it slowly comes out like, oh,I also.
Why is it weird?
The whole time you're like.
It was almost like watching ahorror movie.
Is this your way of sayingthat Donovan voted for Trump?
They're miles away.
You don't really know who theyare now.
It's what I've wanted to talkabout for months.

(42:42):
Fine program.
Since he's not here.
It was well played, wellwritten, and it definitely gave us
a original.
Semi original with the use ofa specific name.
A semi original way ofreconnecting Carrie Coons character
with the actress that's, youknow, got them all together again.

(43:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Because we, we have to haveall the three women have to be in
all the configurations.
Right.
Somebody has to be the odd manout at some point.
That's a way a threesome works.
There you go.
I think the.
For a show that would beaccused by the Fox News viewers of

(43:27):
the world is like, oh, anotherliberal elite program doing whatever.
Yeah.
I think they gave the onefriend quite a bit of like, you feel
for her when she's watchingher friends talk about her.
You know, there's like a levelof humanity still there that it's
not just outwardly dismissive.
Yeah, maybe so.
I.
I think that's fair, though it.

(43:48):
May still be asking thequestion, like, how do we still be
friends with her?
With a person who's done a bad thing?
Which is.
Which is judgmental.
So she catches them talkingabout her later.
Right.
I think you still.
The show wants you to feelsomething for her other than disgust.
Yes, I agree with that.
I think another improvement ofthe episode was getting some people

(44:09):
away from the resort.
With Rick and Chelsea, therewere some more interactions between
people yet to talk, which wasSack talks to Greg's.
What girlfriend Belinda andGreg finally interact.
I love that scene.
He can act.
Credit to him because he givessuch a nice little Side eye to his.

(44:32):
It looked as though he waslooking at his.
His girlfriend, where he waslike, who the hell is this?
What's going on here?
I don't know.
Yeah, well done.
It's so promising too, that.
That Saxon got an off screeninvite to Greg Shot.
We need more people on Greg Shot.
I think a lot of people aregoing to be partying on the yacht.
Yeah, it's possible.

(44:53):
And I hope this is not thecase that the show was planning on
doing this whole soon I'mgoing to Bangkok from Rick.
And then the next episode.
Yeah, I gotta get to Bangkok soon.
And then, oops, I didn't make it.
You know, where's that?
You saving it for thepenultimate episode?
If so, why bring it up so soon?
Does he end up on the boat oris it just Chelsea hanging because

(45:15):
he has to leave?
I don't know.
There's a couple ways to dothat one.
But let's get him in a pack ofcigarettes on that boat.
If he's on the boat, there'sgoing to be a pack of six.
Yeah.
Or two.
Maybe a joint.
If Tim's on his Ativan andRick's puffing it up, I think they

(45:36):
could really sit down andrealize we're basically the same
guy.
Let the chemicals speak toeach other.
I still think the employeestories are dull when you compare
them to the previous twoseasons, especially last season,
just not hitting for me.
Yeah.
As patriarch, Tim is kind ofsevering himself from working and

(45:59):
play with advan.
Let's get into the very seriesthat separates worker to person outside
of work.
Is it weird that we don't havea word for person outside of work?
Like.
Well, we do now.
That's normal.
Though that's probably a goodthing because being inside and devoted
to work in such a way thatyou're completely different.
It's a new industrial age notion.

(46:22):
Okay.
And with that, it's time to.
I mean, do we want to talkabout that?
It's part of what we'regetting at here.
Yeah.
With Severance overall, notmaybe this week, eighth episode,
Severance, titled SweetNothing by the Velvet Underground.
It's.
I like that song.
Sweet Vitriol.
We're into the final three ofthe season with this one.

(46:45):
Adam, can you guess whomessaged the podcast?
Donovan?
No, who was it?
It was a Ben Stiller.
No, it's Mark Falk, the geniusbehind the music of Semi Athletic.
Again, I am so thankful toMark for reaching across the aisle
in these divided times.

(47:05):
I hope he doesn't shoot Me, Canadian.
Mark Falk, he sent us a DM onInstagram of a real.
He must have sent it to you.
He did, yeah, yeah.
It's the reel that explainshow the directors on Severance achieved
that surreal effect of theactors changing from Audi to any
in the.
In the elevator dam.
It's likely our listeners haveseen this.
It could be.

(47:26):
Unless they've made a move forthe better and quit social media
completely.
So this move is called theDolly zoom or the Hitchcock zoom.
Either one toward the lens ofthe camera, zooms outer end simultaneously
as the camera itself isphysically moved towards or away,
depending on what they're bothdoing the same thing.

(47:47):
The fascinating thing forSeverance specifically is that it
is applied to actors wherethere's no real background other
than a blank elevator metal.
It's only that light bluecolor of the elevator.
And it makes that effect morepronounced and gives you only the
actors to watch.
Causes the face shape tosuddenly shift and gives that uncanny

(48:09):
valley feeling we all get andwe didn't know why or I didn't for
a while.
And the camera lenses used tofilm the outside world is a long
lens.
And it's the opposite suppliedto the inside world of Lumen.
And that too does something onhow you view.
So it's a short lens in Lumeninside the offices.

(48:31):
So both the worlds have thesedistinct characteristics from how
everybody's playing it to alsothe camera choices.
And I love that, you know, ahuge, huge fans of everything trying
to have a purpose.
I'm big on that.
I think that's when showsreally operate on excellent upper
tier level.

(48:51):
It's genius.
It's great.
Now you knew that because yousent it to me.
And also Mark did too.
Well, Mark sent it to me, right?
So he beat us to the.
The punch there.
Beat me to the punch.
If you don't know what thatcamera technique is, once you have
seen it once, you'll see it.
Famous scenes like Jaws, youknow, the beach zoom.
Once you know, you'll know.

(49:11):
I think we talked a little bitabout this last week, that there
was a practical effects shotwhere they sent a camera down the
wire.
Right.
Or the tube or whatever it was.
This show seems very committedto doing things practically instead
of doing it analog.
Interesting in the face ofwhat they're examining also in the

(49:35):
story.
Yeah, excellent point.
We got a message from SamanthaSimmons, editor on the Alabama take
side one.
Good to hear from Samantha.
She notes she's a bit behindus, so I want to bring it up here.
Therefore she's Catching up onour podcast, too.
Thanks for going back tolisten because that's viable option
for anyone who isn't caught upon a show and doesn't want to be

(49:58):
spoiled.
She says Helly in episodefive, takes off the shoes because
high heels suck and are asymbol of Helena's control or oppression
of heli.
Love that.
Remember?
I.
I think I made the question.
I wonder why she brought.
I think it was me.
Severance lets privilegedwomen skip the shittiest parts of

(50:19):
womanhood, like high heels and childbirth.
Or.
Or maybe even it's Lumenthat's doing that.
So that's the same episodewhere she makes the comment about,
she dresses me up like adollar every day.
That's good.
It sends me down here, whichwas such a good summation of.
You know, we've talked againand again about how this show takes

(50:39):
profound ideas that are simple.
The whole premise is simple.
Right.
You're just not.
You're going to zone out andgo to work and then come back.
It makes it this very hauntingphilosophical question.
And when they do things likeher saying, she dresses me up like
a dollar, that's such avisceral gut punch kind of way of.

(51:02):
Of understanding what she's feeling.
And the.
Yeah, I didn't even thinkabout the high heels kind of her
taking them off, being like,yeah, screw you.
You know, I don't want to.
You chose this.
I didn't choose this.
Why do my feet have to hurt?
That's great.
And it sadly points out thatour ideas and analysis are sometimes
hamstrung by being men, youknow, at times.

(51:25):
But so.
But that's why we havelisteners who write in and we appreciate
that so much.
That brings me and us toHarmony Cobell.
She's back.
She back.
This is.
This is the Harmony Cobell episode.
That's where we are.
Here come the spoilers forepisode eight.
Sweet Vitriol.
She drives further out in theland that's always winter to what

(51:49):
looked to me like a fishing village.
At first.
She sees a guy huffing glue orgas or some other substance.
We find out it's ether.
Right.
I'm just talking about, like,the initial thinking I did.
She ignores Devin's phonecall, and then she stares down a
small diner's waiter whom sheknows now.
How cool are you?
With a Harmony Only episode, I usually.

(52:10):
Can manage to avoid spoilersof all kinds until I watch Severance.
The Friday night or Fridayrelease makes that pretty easy.
But now people are watching,like, as soon as it drops on Thursday
night, And sometimes I'llcatch or like two.
In the morning kind of thing.
Well, it dropped.
It's late evening, I think.

(52:30):
So it's.
It's entirely feasible towatch it.
Thursday night I caught windthat some people don't like this
episode.
I knew that going in that somepeople thought it was a speed bump,
you know, kind of derailed themomentum that the season has had.
I even saw boring.
Boring.
I was shocked to see peopleonline declare this one to be slow.

(52:52):
Yeah, I don't know that thatslow is the word that I would use.
I don't it.
I think if you were to watchthis show, obviously we don't know
what the end of the season andseason three will hold, but this
would be, you know, say you'rebinging it.
This is a pretty strong outlier.
No matter what.
Whether you like it or not.
I agree with that.

(53:12):
I.
I enjoyed it.
I think that there was a lotof meat on the bone for propelling
the story forward.
That wasn't.
Wasn't just about Ms.
Coble, you know.
And she was not my favoritepart of season one.
Yeah.
I think that season two hasmaybe moved a little more freely

(53:35):
without her daily presence inthe office.
I don't know.
Maybe it's because she's justlike scared me.
Like I watched some of the.
She's a pretty stilted character.
Yeah.
She's hard to read.
She's.
You know, some of thereactions that she had to Mark I
saw on like a YouTube wrap upkind of thing.

(53:55):
It's like, oh yeah, she likeyelled at Mark in the office.
You know, in addition to beingthe weird next door neighbor and
the it all outgrowing.
Not outgrowing her, but theworld expanding beyond her made the
story feel bigger than just.
My next door neighbor's weird.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like there's some weirdrelationship here.
So I don't.
I don't mean to say that she'sa bad character and certainly not

(54:18):
bad acting or writing, but herdisappearing has symbolized the story
growing in a nice way.
But I, I enjoyed returning to her.
There might have been a littleless external action for this episode,
but I was hooked on what itwas going to reveal next.
What every.
Everything it was showing me.
Why is this town so small?
What?
Why are there only elderlypeople eating at the diner?

(54:41):
And so I was waiting on thenext scene for some explanation or
hint what happened at the factory.
I loved all these images ofthe town.
No matter where they were inthe world of severance.
Those all Gave a life afterthe apocalypse feel and the grime
said, you know, what more canthey show us of the Lumen office

(55:05):
where Mark works or any ofthose characters that wouldn't wrap
up several answers thatthey're probably needing to do in
episodes nine and 10 to closethe season and set up some of season
three.
We know that this is a multigenerational family business.
And if you go back, you know,I mean, it's.

(55:27):
It's classic industrialism.
You know that they needed thefactory beside the body of water
to do what they now do with computers.
You know that it's almost likea hierarchy of needs.
Right.
Like they started making aphysical product and it slowly moves
up into whatever the hellthey're doing in the basement.

(55:50):
Now, whether it's.
I mean, they've alreadyaltered consciousness.
Right.
In some way and possibly, ifyou believe the conversation at Birch
House, they have split humanbeings and created profound questions
for the religiousestablishments around the world.
So.
But it had to start.
If they're a massivecorporation, you have to have an

(56:12):
influx of cash from sellingsomething at first.
You can't only be in thebusiness of destroying the entire
history of philosophy.
I guess it comes down to.
For viewers, do you need toknow all that?
Do you want to know all that.
In a show that's been dolingout its own myth, the myth of Kir.
You know, we had the.
Yeah, the Excursion episodewhere we learned about Dieter, brother

(56:37):
to Kir.
And interesting comment onlinethat points out diethyl ether is
the.
The full scientific name.
Right.
Looks a lot like Dieter.
Take out a few of those middleletters and you could squeeze the
word Dieter.
Yeah.
And if you were trying toalter consciousness, a rag soaked
in ether.

(56:57):
It's a tried and true way todo it.
Yes, it is.
Hunter S.
Thompson noted all the drugshe would just pop, but when it came
to the ether, he kind ofdreaded that one.
Oof.
I love that the show is makingme, helping me understand what's
going on and still leaving afew things ambiguous enough for me

(57:20):
to have fun.
Yeah, I mean, you could, youcould be watching this and only thinking,
I want to know what the peoplewho have been on screen, how their
lives are going to end up.
Just watch it at a surfacelevel like that and it'd still be
a very rich, rewarding show.
But you could have paused, Idon't know, two dozen times during

(57:41):
this most recent episode and found.
And I did.
Which I don't usually get everywhere.
Right.
Yeah.
When she's first drivingthrough the town and passes a very
faded sign that clearly saysLumen on it.
Yeah, I gave it, you know, you immediately.
Yeah, you do.
The Leonardo DiCaprio point at screen.
But then not knowing that it'sgoing to be another 35 minutes of

(58:03):
that on steroids, you know,hey, what did.
Thomas Wolf know about nevergoing home again?
Because Harmony, that'sactually her old hometown, Salt Snake,
which is.
You saw the sign in theprevious episode.
You didn't know what that was.
Well, it's her hometown, apparently.
Her time.
Her line very early in theepisode about the town being older

(58:26):
than she recalls reminds me so much.
I immediately went to Scout.
Not Mark Scout, but Scout fromthe novel To Kill a Mockingbird,
where she asked her neighbor,this is an old town, ain't it, Miss
Marty?
And Miss Marty misconstrueswhat she means by something being
old.
She, you know, she is the townitself been there for a long time.

(58:50):
Or are the people old?
Harmony means it same way asScout of the novel does.
But she knew maybe everyone asyoung and vibrant or at least a little
more life in them when she wasthere, or just older and vibrant.
Maybe there were some 40 yearold folks running around with some

(59:10):
kids.
And this is the effect ofLumen, which her old sidekick hints
at later with the factory's location.
They come in, they take, they leave.
I don't think they let hischaracter drive that home quite well
enough.
That's my only qualm with thisepisode and it is tiny.
I wish he would have just saida little bit more blatantly.

(59:31):
When Lumen leaves, they folksget old and everybody moves away
and you only have us few.
He gives a very funny responseto her in the cafe right when she's
old.
But it's, it's like very academic.
Like you don't expect all ofthe words that come out of his mouth
to.

(59:51):
And when the dissolution ofcertain power struck, you know, just.
I forget exactly how he says it.
But yeah, I love it.
You see the guy huffing inthe, the empty box car or whatever
that is.
You see three people in thediner, which at first you're like,
oh, we got a little R and Rdiner going here.
Is this a little, a little R.

(01:00:12):
And R Twin Peaks action?
Huh?
Maybe a little bit, but that,that falls apart fairly quickly.
This is not super small.
Yeah.
Not a charming littleforgotten town.
So you see, we've seen four people.
The old huffer, the threepeople in the, in the diner.
Do you see anybody else untilit's just completely abandoned?
No cars Moving what few there are.

(01:00:35):
Beautifully shot again.
Yeah.
As everything in the show is,though, they.
Until earlier this season withthe excursion, they.
They don't get to flex on biglandscapes very often.
Yeah.
And they really did it thistime with, you know, her driving
in.
People have pointed out the Scurves of that road look like the

(01:00:55):
reintegration thing that Markis going through where they're trying
to line up the.
Again, if they were able to dothat on purpose.
Oh, man.
Chef's kiss.
Bit of a shining opening too.
You know, driving through thesnowy landscape into who knows what
kind of madness.
Isolated madness.
It was great.

(01:01:15):
They use new phoneland.
As I said, the notion thatLumen would use child labor should
come as no surprise to me.
But it's.
It's the same low that they do.
It points back to that eyeexam for children from that last
episode of With Gemma.
And wasn't there a Hersheyschool that recruited or brought

(01:01:36):
in or stole orphans to workfor them under a guise of education
in school?
Was there?
I mean, there's a long historyof, you know, like, taking, say,
native children and forcingthem to go to English boarding schools,
that sort of thing.
So the more the series goesinto its second, much better season,
the closer it brings the linesof capitalism and religion quite

(01:02:00):
close to one another in their parallelism.
That's maybe one of my bigquestions about the show.
And it's not that I don'tbelieve them.
I just want to know how aseveral genera.
What four generations oldcompany is Kier.
Kiera de Heli is.
Her dad is the grandson of Kier.

(01:02:20):
That does sound right.
Whatever it is, they have not been.
They started in 1865.
Right.
I think I remember some CivilWar dates sticking out in my brain.
How do you start a companythat ends up having a complete fanatical
religious hold on?
Well, both Harmony and heraunt, you know, Harmony also has

(01:02:43):
the little Kier shrine in her house.
But then you.
You meet her completelydevoted and at this house, like,
how do you build that much ofa ethos and devotion in a fairly
short time?
Scientology is even younger.
Yeah, I mean, that's theresponse is that cults do it at lightning
speed compared to that.

(01:03:04):
And then Scientology,obviously is a good bit younger.
I really do think that they're using.
Either using Scientology as areference point or they're directly
poking their finger toward it.
Newfoundland does have a lotof very square structures, don't
they?
A lot of.
A lot of square wooden houses.
Yeah.
Anyway, turns out Harmony'smom was not A Kier believer.

(01:03:28):
You know, she says twodifferent things to Mark, to Audi.
Mark.
She said in season one, mymother was Catholic.
To any Mark, she says mymother was an atheist, and then starts
explaining why.
Kier is a great solution fromwhat I remember.
So she's given two differentdefinitions of what her mom was.

(01:03:50):
Huh.
Regardless, she's not.
Not a believer.
Right.
And not that both can't be true.
You could be Catholic andbecome atheist and then.
Or vice versa.
Sure, sure.
But I took the.
The one to mean she was apracticing Catholic, but yeah, no,
that's a good point, butstill, her mom's not on the wagon

(01:04:12):
with her aunt and daughter.
You're calling her aunt?
It wasn't a sister.
It wasn't older sister.
She.
She was a little too old to beher older sister, in my opinion.
I was on the aunt idea too.
Yeah.
It's her mom's sister.
Right.
That's what I was thinking.
Has it been said otherwise online?
No.
Okay.
No, Nothing proven, nothing substantial.

(01:04:32):
But Sis, as they call her,does mention a wintertide.
I thought she said winter time.
A wintertide apprenticeship.
And that's been brought up before.
That's exactly the explanationof Ms.
Huang.
Yeah, that's what she's going for.
She is talking about some sortof apprenticeship, or maybe Milchek

(01:04:54):
uses that term about her,about what she's doing.
She needs to perform well,because he would be the one to recommend
to her, degrade her in someway as to whether she's gonna get
that or not.
Okay.
And apparently that's aeuphemistic term for child labor.
Well, as Harmony says, whenshe does the ether, she says, I haven't
done that since I was eight.

(01:05:15):
Yeah.
And then they said, should wego do a 10 hour shift above the vat?
Now, I'm not one to judge, butis 8 too young to be getting high?
She quit at 8, so this is nother first one.
She swore off the stuff at 8.
She already had a habit before that.
She's huffing around five something.
I.
I would assume so, yeah.
I have a certainty, though,that young Ker Egan is merely Paul

(01:05:42):
Rudd with a really thick beard.
So it's no wonder these catsworship him.
It's understandable.
Seems like a cool guy.
Yeah.
As people tend to do.
She.
She hooks up some.
She gets into her mom's room.
Finally she has to find the key.
She hooks up some medicaltubing to an antiquated machine,
took huge breaths from it,which appears to be of just plain

(01:06:04):
air.
Lays on the bed, cries andfall asleep.
I did this daily.
This was so.
Just completely macabre to me.
Like, the.
Even the tubing from the firstseason that we see.
And then she's bringing itwith her.
Yeah.
It's covered in dust.

(01:06:24):
And you just.
You know.
You know how that feels inyour hand.
You can imagine the way itprobably smells.
And she just hooks it up andgoes to town.
She's not seeing mom that much.
Regretting not getting to seemom in her last days so much.
A lot of questions about thathouse, huh?
I mean, you.

(01:06:45):
You've explored the.
Is the aunt, the sister, whoever.
Is she severed?
Why did she not go up the stairs?
I mean, the easy explanationis that maybe older people are not
going to go up the stairs.
She's clearly moved all of herstuff into the.
The bottom level so shedoesn't have to deal with them.
But for a show that's alreadyintroduced us to the idea that women
could be severed forchildbirth, the possibility that

(01:07:07):
someone acting as a caretakercould be severed to do that job has
to come up, I think.
Yeah.
Well, you probably bring it upwith almost any character.
How severed are they?
Or if they are.
Yeah.
Right.
And what would inspire harmonyto create severance in the first
place?
You know, is it to, like, takeaway the pain of her mother or those

(01:07:31):
who are around her mother?
Like, how do you.
Where does that spark come from?
Oh, well, since she made itearlier, I think it might be the
pain of child labor.
Not being a kid.
No.
Innocence.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it.
Yeah.
Like you mentioned, turns outit's not Jamie who's been credited
for it.
It's Harmony.

(01:07:52):
She says in a veryShakespearean manner, she would be
banished if she ever revealedshe was the inventor.
But I think that's what she'swanting to do.
The Egans, though, are.
It's a very poetic littletown, Very.
Antiquated way of speaking.
They had read their canon.

(01:08:13):
I'll be honest.
I'm not a captions guy.
Not a closed captions viewer.
I had to turn them on this time.
I am not one, and I had toturn them on.
I luckily have the featurethat you can.
It'll do like, a 15 second back.
And when you do that button,it also turns on the closed captions
because it's a very good feature.
They were mumbling.
Yeah, they were.

(01:08:34):
They speak very softly in thistown because her.
Her friend.
Hampton.
Hampton.
Thank you.
Had a very good line about thelumen car coming from a distance.
I wouldn't have heard that otherwise.
I wouldn't have either.
I thought he said something else.
But the Egans are just antiwoman religion, like a lot of others
I know of.

(01:08:54):
Or are they now?
They're pretty anti woman.
It's not just anti harmony.
How do you think that plays out?
I'm not disagreeing.
I'm just.
The things that she says.
Her accomplished beingaccomplishments being minimized.
You know, the idea that shewas supposed to give this up, that
seems inherent in not onlyreligion, but also capitalism.

(01:09:15):
You know, like you.
It's for the good of the team.
Yeah, the team.
That's.
That sounds more communist,but it does.
Which you're lulled intothinking, like, we care about you.
You're a valued member.
A rising tide lifts all ships.
So, you know, why would youwant to stand out when there's this
great system you can work in,that sort of thing?

(01:09:35):
Yeah, it does sound a lot likecommunism or totalitarianism.
Yet Lumen itself kind ofoperates in a very capitalistic manner.
Well, a totalitarian manner,for sure.
Okay.
Yeah.
And maybe they're not reallysupposed to be like a religion or
political theory as much assome Frankenstein mix of the worst
of those and the most evil ofall of those things.

(01:09:57):
Back in 2022, though,Scientology was busted for human
trafficking and child labor.
I mean, I think we're supposed to.
Maybe we saw the same thing again.
Question.
The Keir love story that hemet this woman working at this factory.
At an ether factory, Right?
Yeah.
And she was his employee, andthey're surrounded by ether.

(01:10:19):
And this is a guy whose othergenerations would go on to sever
people to do God knows what to him.
Yeah.
Did he dissociate enough tosever himself.
Somehow with all the ether, orwas he drugging her?
Lumen's whole point is to helpcapitalism, or at least their ways
and means of money.
They want to power on theproletariat so that they no longer

(01:10:42):
rely on a God to get themthrough the day.
You could be severed.
You guys kind of stoppedbelieving in God anyway.
Here's this.
And they never really call hima God.
Here's this that you couldbelieve in, and you can also be severed
from your.
From your job.
To me, this episode did such anice job of like.

(01:11:04):
Like, I.
When I thought back, I thoughtof Mark and his co workers in their,
by comparison, cushy, niceoffice jobs as, like, the tip of
this iceberg, that they are both.
Both in that, like, you'reonly seeing the small thing, that
now we're investigatingeverything that led to It.
But all of that effort,whether they knew it or not, that

(01:11:26):
factory on the frozen bay, youknow, all led to what Mark is doing
now in some way.
Yeah, it did.
We're supposed to slowly makethese connections and question how.
How what they're doing now isany different than, you know, the.
The ethics of the peopleinvolved didn't change.
Just the.
The setting and the technology.

(01:11:48):
Yeah.
Thanks to Harmony.
Yeah.
The episodes endings of theseason have been stellar.
With the music for the closingcredits this week is that banger
Firewoman by the Culture.
That was one of my favoritesongs from 1989.
And in like three, four orfive episodes, they ended with a
who's 80s hit song, Eminence Front.

(01:12:10):
I like.
I love that song.
It'd be really something if inmy memory's failing me here, if they
were closing each episode witha song from the 80s and each one
got closer to the end of thedecade, that.
I don't think that's happening.
Is it happening?
I don't know.
I don't know.
Listeners.
Do y'all know you could beonto something.
And anyway, it also closeswith what seems to be a very obvious

(01:12:32):
hint that she and Marker arenow going to be in cahoots, or at
least after the same thing.
Now, shared intent, working together.
I mean, we're supposed toquestion if she's a good person or
a bad person for the purposesof the story.
Like, is she gonna take Lumendown or is she trying to take Lumen
over to carry on the mission?
That seems more accurate to me.

(01:12:52):
She seems too.
I know she kinda says fuck youto Lumen there with sis.
That she come to thatconclusion, but she came to that
conclusion awfully well.
Maybe not quick because shehas tried.
She has been dealing withthem, debating going back, deciding
not to go back.
Helena has kind of pissed heroff, you know, through firing her

(01:13:15):
and all kinds of shit.
I think she scared the out of her.
That's a good read too.
Like, she.
That was one of the earlycracks in the.
The Internet's theory of,like, how many people are severed.
Is everyone in this showsevered in some way?
When.
When she says, I think we needa reset.
Helena says this to Harmony,and it's like, that's.
That's a threat.

(01:13:35):
If Harmony goes in thatbuilding, there's a very solid chance
that she never comes back outalive again.
She knows this because sheknows presumably what's happening
on every floor.
Yeah.
And never given credit.
Helena is kind of front andcenter these days, but she's a Woman.
How much control does she have?

(01:13:56):
Of course, her dad's here andthere berating her, calling her these
weird, outdated terms.
I don't know.
I mean, they're alreadysetting up that we're supposed to
feel bad for her in some waybecause we see her framing things
like nature versus nurture.
We see heli become this, like,very likable person.

(01:14:18):
Yeah.
With a strong moral compasswere rooting for.
And then you see what thefamily has turned the same theoretical
raw material into in Helena,who's kind of the big bad.
And you.
Season two introduced thequestion of, like, how much.
How much of the unconscious orthe subconscious is seeping through

(01:14:38):
the severed process?
Like, are we actually.
Should we be rooting forHelena's liberation from Lumen?
Like, you get the feeling thatwith Mark, part of it is she's never
had a boyfriend or she's neverknown love or whatever, and she wanted
to experience that, even ifit's in this really messed up way.

(01:14:59):
And I think everybody has.
I mean, there are peoplequestioning, like, is Mark gonna
end up being a bad guy somehow?
Right.
We brought that.
Yeah.
We had a listener bring thatup last week.
There is no black and white, so.
And I think we have toquestion how, again, how severed
is everyone?
Is harmony also severed insome way?

(01:15:20):
Or was she.
I mean, she knows rugby immediately.
Did they work togetherstudying how reintegration would
work?
Did she try it?
And, you know, what's going on here?
Rigabe has to be fleshed out alittle more.
Somehow or another, we're aworld of gray and complexities, and
Lumen's simply trying to makethings black and white for everyone.

(01:15:42):
That's a good way of thinkingabout the show, too.
Yeah.
I mean, absolutely.
If you want total control.
No, if you want total control,because the human mind wants things
to be one way or the other.
Right.
Good and bad.
Makes things easier, faster.
If you could offer peoplefreedom from not just suffering,

(01:16:02):
but boredom and tedium andmake everything black and white.
Yeah.
That's like the authoritarianfascist handbook, right?
Yeah.
It certainly helps them.
Well, that's the end for this week.
If you find this podcast fun,here's some fun homework for you
that you'll.
You'll enjoy this.
Leave us a comment on theAlabama Take website.
On this episode's page, wewill see it.

(01:16:25):
We'll respond.
Super likely.
We might use it or read itnext week.
That's it for us.
For Adam and the missingDonovan, I'm Blaine.
And wishing you an excellentweek free of terror.
Us.
Until next Tuesday.