December 3, 2024 • 48 mins
This week's episode begins, as usual, with the non-spoiler section. First up, Adam returns and is eager to talk about 'Say Nothing' (0:07). They also talk about 'Shrinking' in the non-spoiler section (7:25). And then give a recommendation or not on the movie on Apple TV+ 'Blitz' (10:41).
As the episode moves into spoilers, the crew discuss the vital Thanksgiving episode of 'Somebody, Somewhere' and how it hits hard (14:34) which leads them to give a special hello and hope for social media (24:14).
Then it's the big question: is this season of 'Shrinking' any good (26:15)? After that, it's the complex interplay of historical drama and personal stories in the FX/Hulu series 'Say Nothing' and its first four episodes (36:31).
For the links for Descript, click here: https://get.descript.com/31mu8d2mia99
For more from The Alabama Take, click here: https://www.thealabamatake.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Alabama Tape Projection.
Okay, got Donovan and Adam here.
Last week we got into the newFX Hulu show say Nothing, which has
to be produced by our own Adam Morrow.
You know, fellows, I don'toften listen to our podcast.
(00:23):
I sit through it.
You know, it's been quite afew episodes and I pulled.
Pulled y'all up this week.
And I gotta say, listening toa production that you're a part of,
the pressure feels on nowbecause I have seen the consumer
side.
And Blaine, you've puttogether a great product.
One, but two, now, now I'mthinking about, oh, my God, someone
(00:43):
else could be listening tothis on earbuds right now.
And if so, I'm sorry forwhatever I do.
These, these two were great.
Our listenership has grown andthank you all for listeners.
Anyway, for listeners, thisseries say Nothing Donovan, I did
talk about last week.
Adams mentioned that, but weonly talked about two episodes.
Now we're in our non spoilersection, so don't.
Don't Run for the hills.
(01:04):
It's Based off the 2018 bookby Patrick Radon Keefe about the
troubles in Northern Ireland.
It's from creator Josh Zidmer.
Say Nothing's based on thetrue story of the 70s, 80s and 90s
war, if that's what you chooseto call it.
I do.
Between the ira, who wishedfor a united Ireland, and the British,
(01:25):
who had control of Northern Ireland.
It's from a set of interviewsof IRA members involved, many of
whom requested their accountsnot be shared until after their deaths.
Donovan, we were close aboutwhere these interviews are housed.
They are at Boston College.
Okay, that was another one.
I knew it was somewhere up there.
My main takeaway fromlistening last week, this is not
(01:45):
a spoiler, is that Donovan hasbeen overexposed to the city of Boston
and has feelings.
Takes, if you will, in our spoiler.
Section later, we're going totalk about the first five episodes,
possibly four.
For sure, maybe five.
But I suspect we're all fansof the show.
(02:05):
We would recommend it as a viewing.
Right.
So that's the part of thepodcast we're in right now.
My question is maybe why?
Or if you have a specificsegment of people that would enjoy
it more or just why do youlike it?
You know, Adam's stealing mythunder here, but yeah, if you're
from Boston, you'll probablylike this show.
(02:25):
It was interesting to heary'all talk about, who is this for?
And even Blaine.
I noticed you have possiblylearned something in the last few
weeks.
You called it a war andunderstood that that was a.
It's a little bit politicalright to say that, or it certainly
would have been then.
I think one thing thatoccurred to me while watching it
(02:47):
and then maybe y'all didn'ttouch on is how much Donovan alluded
to it when he is joking aboutBoston, but how much the idea of
being Irish or Scottish orScotch Irish, which is its own can
of worms.
How much of the Americanpopulation identifies in some way
with these islands or placeson the outskirts of the United Kingdom.
(03:10):
And you talked about peoplewho love historical drama or political
intrigue.
I think there's like a senseof identity for some people in like,
figuring out what happened.
Because, like, y'all, I'm kindof like, well, I know that they don't
like each other, but I don'treally know why.
And I know that if you go backenough generations, someone.
I would have had an opinion onthis because I would have lived somewhere
nearby like that.
(03:32):
I think that that is maybe interesting.
And you hate to call an armedconflict quirky, but like, it's such
a part of Western civilizationin the 20th century.
And my history book, if we hadit, it was at the chapters that,
like, they ran out of time andglazed over at the end.
It having a wider audience isa good thing.
(03:54):
That's a long answer.
I'm sorry.
This is great.
No, I was bowled over by thefact that I was like, wait, Ireland
was a war torn country, or atleast Northern Ireland was a war
torn country.
You just thought it wasBelfast greenery and leprechauns.
Exactly.
I thought it was fine.
Some Guinness.
Had you asked me in 1989 as akid, you want to go to Belfast?
I would have been like, sure,yeah, let's go.
(04:15):
He's just got to stand thepeace wall.
Blaine, of course.
Right.
But I would have still, Iwouldn't have known that it was a
troublesome area.
I mean, y'all not portrayed inthe media.
Y'all joked about not havingme here to keep you updated on what
Bono was doing at a giventime, but it is.
It is insane to think about,say, like the unforgettable fire
(04:37):
record being made less thanlike an hour and a half from the
H blocks.
You know, it's all of thesethings happening in such a tiny place,
relatively.
It's just mind boggling noteven being that far away.
Like when I was a graduateassistant at Alabama, our Alabama,
the University of Alabama, theassistant dean of the graduate school
(04:58):
was from England.
He's like, yeah, I remember anIRA bomb going off he's like, I was
walking down the street.
Amazing.
Insane.
It's scary.
Yeah.
He's like, if it didn't killyou, it wasn't that big a deal.
It happened all the time.
They weren't usually trying tokill anyone.
The show's really good foranyone who likes tension, intrigue,
a little.
There's not quite a lot.
It's.
It's a political intrigue,historical kind of fiction.
(05:19):
They fictionalize, obviously,some of this they have to, but it's
the high tension.
And obviously, if you don'tknow much about Ireland, but you
want to, I.
Will say that as I searchedaround the Internet for reviews and
that sort of thing, obviously,I will joke again.
I'm surprised y'all didn'tmake point of Reddit not being represented
(05:42):
here last week.
But in the Northern Irelandsubreddit, previous to this show
being made, if somebody camein, there were a few threads that
said, you know, I am Xgenerations removed from Ireland.
I would love to understand theTroubles and ask for, like, literature,
documentary, whatever.
And after this book came out,this was widely recommended.
(06:02):
The source text for this show,that made me feel good.
The opinion seems to be alittle split on the program itself,
but it seems authenticated insome way.
The source text, at least.
I'm surprised you haven't read it.
Well, it's on the list now.
Gotcha.
Yeah, it does sound good.
To follow up Adam's thingabout identity.
I'd completely forgotten this.
Yeah, a lot of this stuff isstill very close to the surface.
(06:25):
So much so that, for instance,I have a coworker who's very Italian.
Like, her parents are Italian.
In the city that she grew up,there were Italian kids and there
were Irish kids, and they didnot like each other.
So she's like, yeah, we'd wearorange on St Patrick's Day.
I was like.
I was like, holy shit.
She's like, we didn't knowwhat it meant.
(06:45):
We just knew it annoyed theIrish kids.
I had a.
That one that's kind ofincredible and horrible.
But I had a boss who was fromNew Jersey and had been adopted.
He was Irish Catholic and beenadopted by an Irish Catholic couple.
And they had all these Italian friends.
And he said, oh, there were fights.
(07:06):
Oh, yeah.
Which is not to tip our hand here.
But growing up in Alabama,obviously the idea of whiteness is
complex and manipulated andall of these things.
These are little nuances thatwe didn't really get in rural Alabama.
It's not the same.
Right.
The beginning of our spoilersection will start soon.
(07:28):
But we'll also talk about thefairly popular Apple TV show Shrinking,
and almost all of that secondseason that's aired.
There are seven episodes.
We'll probably discuss six now.
That's helmed by famous TVcreator Bill Lawrence.
If.
If you haven't heard his name,you probably have watched his television
shows, Ted Lasso or Scrubs.
(07:48):
He also created and had a bighand in producing, I think, Bad Monkey
for Apple as well, which wecovered here.
Shrinking stars Jason Siegel,Harrison Ford, and Jessica Williams
as therapists with plenty ofproblems of their own to solve.
Jason Siegel's characterhaving a deceased wife who died in
(08:08):
a car accident when she washit by a drunk driver.
More on those plot points later.
But if you've seen any of theseries, you know that aspect that's
in the opening scene.
My question is asstraightforward as it gets.
To begin, is this show good?
I very much enjoyed seasonone, and I think it came out at a
time when I was disappointedwith how Ted Lasso was going or had
(08:32):
gone.
I'm gonna mix up the exacttimeline there, but it felt closer
to what I liked about the runof Ted Lasso.
This season has taken.
We're at an odd point to cutit off because I feel like it's drawing
a real big circle and tryingto bring it home.
And I think it might do it,but I'm kind of Season two.
(08:53):
I haven't been able to decideif it is a little overindulgent or
not.
We can compare it to its other programs.
It's funny, you said if you.
If you're not familiar withits creator, Bill Lawrence.
I mean, he was kind of inescapable.
I'm laughing in my head at,like, how much Scrubs me and Donovan
watched just as a byproduct ofhaving cable when we were in college
(09:13):
because it was just on all the time.
And his.
That brand of humor.
Does it always land for you ordo you ever run into, like, okay,
quirkiness is quirky.
Time is over.
Let's.
Let's move forward.
It is not a laugh out loudshow for me.
It's.
It's a.
It makes me smile or maybechuckle at best, though that's not
(09:33):
to say I don't like it.
Did Ted Lasso make you laughout loud?
Sometimes.
Every now and again.
A higher lull ratio than shrinking.
Yeah.
My thesis on shrinking thisseason is that it's enjoyable, but
it's.
It may not be a good show.
Mm.
It is enjoyable, except for.
I mean, does it make you Wantto engage in class warfare.
(09:57):
Doesn't everything explain why?
Education, class warfare.
We are the working man's podcast.
It kind of does.
Sometimes I do think aboutthat, especially this season, more
so than I ever.
Have with shrinking money andcomfort and material things are not
an issue in the shrinking world.
(10:19):
And they all just look so damncozy all the time.
You said that.
You can just almost smell themthrough the tv.
They smell good, you know,they smell good.
They smell great.
And, you know, every hoodie is soft.
Every t shirt costs 75 and their.
Hoodies haven't been washed tohell and back.
They didn't source them at the target.
(10:42):
God, I'd like a sweated shirtlike that.
And real quick, while we'restill in non spoiler territory, it's
about the Apple TV plus movie.
It's been on the streamer forabout two weeks, maybe one week.
It's Blitz.
It's a World War II movie, asyou may be able to deduce from the
name.
Stars the Irish.
(11:02):
Do you want me to say it,Blaine, please.
Saoirse Ronan Saran.
Never get that correct becauseI see it in writing and my brain
will not let me.
Okay.
It's directed by the revereddirector Steve McQueen, who's known
for 12 Years a Slave andwidows and a few more things.
Now, Donovan and I haven'tseen it, but.
Adam, do you want to add somethings in our non spoiler section
(11:24):
about Blitz?
Yeah.
Saoirse Ronan is like, almostcan't miss, right?
Yeah, she is for you.
I mean, I think she'sbrilliant and very, very, very talented.
And it's like her making goodchoices and her elevating the films
that she's in.
Yeah, by that I mean, like, ifshe's in something, I'm probably
(11:45):
going to enjoy that film andher performance.
And then if I told you she'sin World War II movie, you're all
in.
This is literally the sellingto me of this trailer.
I don't even know if I watchedthe trailer.
Somebody just said, saoirseRonan's in a film about the London
Blitz.
Okay.
But it was.
It was good.
It wasn't.
It possibly had some identityissues, couldn't quite decide what
(12:10):
kind of film it wanted to beand wavered at times and maybe a
few missteps.
Maybe you could have cut a fewscenes, I don't know.
But it was a glimpse at maybethinking about something like Masters
of Air that we watched thisyear, or Band Of Brothers where they're
on leave and you kind of seehow Civilians are living.
And I don't know if you everthought, oh, it'd be interesting
(12:32):
to see a whole movie series,whatever, about people who are not,
like, in the war effort in aLeague of Their Own kind of way,
but, like, are actuallygetting bombed in that armed conflict
in that way.
It was.
I mean, at times it was like ahorror film.
I mean, it was really.
Yeah, it was nightmarish inthe way that everything that I've
(12:52):
ever read about living throughthe Blitz sounded.
You know, I'm in Death fromthe Skies at any moment and just
going with the stiff upper lipby day in that way.
I think it succeeded in other ways.
I wanted it.
It was like, probably like a Cmovie that I really thought, with
a few changes, could have beensolid B.
(13:13):
C from Steve McQueen.
A C movie.
Wow.
I don't know.
But at the same time, it verymuch stayed with me.
Maybe it's one of those thingswhere, like, things that are just
slightly out of focus, in youropinion, bother you that much more
than things that are justoutright bad.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yes.
It's the little details,right, that get you more almost than
the big ones.
And obviously just one man'sopinion here, but I do think y'all
(13:35):
should watch it.
That would.
If that factors into theoverall score, I would recommend
it.
And I didn't look at my phone,so two for two there.
There you go.
That's very good for us.
We're gonna take a littlebreak here.
We'll jump into spoilers inabout 30 seconds.
(13:58):
Taking it down in our homesite, the Alabama Take are thrilled
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(14:18):
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Okay, we are in spoilers.
Anything goes here.
If you anything may.
(14:42):
I swear.
Are you kidding me?
Donovan always works blue.
Check your time steps and chapter.
Whichever one you use.
I know Apple podcasts haslittle chapter things.
Check those because we'regonna might spoil some things in
quick succession here.
Most recent thoughts onSomebody Somewhere the Thanksgiving
episode.
Oh, man, what a perfectlytimed episode.
(15:03):
How does this show I thinkI've said it a zillion times, but
it's the bitter and the sweetlying side by side.
There's no hope.
But there's all.
I mean, sorry.
It's not that there's no hope.
There is hope.
But I really, really love theway it's engaging with stuff like
Brad and Joel moving together.
And it's like, it's a goodthing, but it's not 100% uncomplicated.
(15:25):
Like everybody has to make.
And then whatever is causingJoel to cry.
Right.
Is it something with Brad?
Is it kids?
Is it the guy who apologizedto him?
You know, there's like, haveyou not.
Ever cried at the end ofThanksgiving when everyone leaves?
Well, just that emotional.
I cried the next morning whenI see the dishes.
Yeah.
(15:45):
Anyway, good.
We all like Iceland, right?
Yes, it is funny, the slowburn of that relationship.
In another, it may feelcliched that they would get together
or be seeming to move in thatdirection, but in this one, they're
both so, like, hapless atmaking it occur that it's endearing
(16:08):
and it feels earned in the plot.
And.
And then Brad and Joel, someof the tension has been like, is
Joel making a good decision here?
Has he made a good decision?
But then when all of thesethings come to light, Brad's like,
yeah, of course I'll accommodate.
What it ends up being like,the most human wholesome reaction,
which was great.
I know we're gonna talk aboutshrinking and if you have seen the
(16:30):
most recent episode, whichwe're not gonna discuss, but I watched
this Thanksgiving somebodysomewhere, and then that newest episode
of Shrinking back to Back, andthis was some heavy lifting from
two usually kind oflighthearted, wholesome program.
Somebody somewhere.
That Thanksgiving episode wasso good.
It was so good.
Yeah.
(16:50):
Now, what makes it good, itcontinues with giving you reality
but not making you feeloverwhelmed with seeing reality.
There's no one scrolling theirphone on this show and reading headlines
about Trump.
Or anything, though they have,of all people, very much have earned
(17:10):
some anxiety.
Yeah, absolutely.
Will Joel and Brad.
Is that going to dissolve?
We'll see how big a thing kids is.
You're definitely rooting forit, right?
Like, Brad seems like a gentle soul.
Joel seems is a gentle soul.
Very much.
You know what I really likedfrom this episode was like.
(17:32):
And I thought there were bitsof this that were very funny.
And I'm really especiallyliking Trish this season.
Josh is the low key MVP of the cg.
She's so funny.
Her getting wine drunk, likeat the Std.
Last episode and then hergetting wine drunk.
This episode was great.
But I loved the bit where Samtook the time to say to Joel, like,
(17:55):
you have a gift for makingpeople happy.
Because how often do we tellour friends things like that?
But they need to hear it.
That was great.
I thought that was great.
Just that moment and it comingto that moment.
That was great.
Listeners, in case you want aglimpse into us, I feel the three
of us are actually kind ofgood at that.
We could be characters onsomebody somewhere.
Not good ones.
(18:16):
Not good.
Yeah.
Wow.
It was just a great episode.
I honestly am not as preparedto talk about this episode as I wish
I was, but it stuck with meenough that I can bring out some
certain things that happened.
And the main thing is thatJoel's crying.
I think that's a point ofconversation for many people online.
You know, what did it mean?
Are they bound for a possibledivorce or split or maybe a fight?
(18:41):
It's so funny.
Television has trained us inmovies, have trained us to expect
the big conflict.
They're going to yell andscream at each other in the next
episode.
And I'll be honest, I watchthis show and every now and again,
I'll find myself getting tenseand then realize it's not this kind
of show.
Just chill out.
They immediately subvert thatwith the Jules piano reappearing
(19:03):
this episode.
Right?
Yeah.
Yes.
You know, when Fred's wife,she badgers Brad almost during Thanksgiving
about, you know, over some wine.
She's getting.
She's getting a little winedrunk herself.
And she's badgering him abouthis two sons who are grown.
Oh, you know, how'd that happen?
How'd that come to be?
We want to hear this story.
And everyone's awkwardly kindof looking to say, maybe we don't.
(19:27):
Maybe we should give him abreak on this.
And Brad, again, gently.
No, I'll tell you.
Yeah.
That was so good.
And I kept thinking, he, man,this is going to break.
Something's going to break here.
No, it does not.
One interesting callback I'dlike to make that when Joel and Brad
go to their devotional group.
(19:48):
Yeah, good, too.
It was really good.
And even the book that theywere reading is.
I know.
The book that they're practicing.
The Prince of God.
Right.
That's what they're going saythe title again.
Practicing the Presence of God.
Okay.
Which is a beloved book.
And if you were in, like, thechurch world, you'd be like, oh,
(20:10):
this.
This group has a little depth,you know, like they're.
They're about their business.
But I think that's kind of thebeautiful thing about the show.
Right.
That we've talked about a lotis, yes, they're in this red state.
Yes, this is a gay couplegoing to a space that would have
been hostile to them not long ago.
Very recent history.
But here's this Brad guywho's, like, completely grace filled
(20:30):
and gentle and able to dealwith this incredibly complex.
I mean, that was like aHemingway short story in a way that
he told over the table.
But he does it with such.
He's extending her thiscompassion that is not necessarily
coming his way.
That it shows, like, not only.
(20:50):
Not that like, you have to.
Good people come from religionexclusively, but, like, here's a
guy that maybe was notaccepted in a world that still gave
him a lot and taught him howto deal with these situations.
I don't know.
I just think he's kind of agenius character.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
If something happens to Brad,I'm gonna set myself on fire.
That's why I don't want.
I don't want Joel's meltdownto be about a possible breakup.
(21:14):
I would rather it be moreabout, whoo, I'm overwhelmed.
That was a big day.
You know, the other side ofthat is someone who's in a.
What society would call acomplex relationship.
Right.
That she's the one badgeringhim about these details.
Yeah.
It seemed like an unspokenthing that everybody at that table
would understand.
(21:34):
Hey, you don't have to diginto somebody's life before you knew
them.
There's pain at that table.
You would think.
Well, none of them are withfamily except for Sam and Trish.
Right.
Yes.
It's a friendsgiving, but theydo it on Thanksgiving.
Donovan, I may have said thisto our group, and if not, sorry.
(21:55):
Well, maybe.
Maybe I should apologizebecause you're going to hear it twice.
But I was telling Adam thatone of the big differences between
a show like shrinking and ashow like somebody somewhere can
be reduced down to shrinking.
Looks as though they buy theirclothes there in Los Angeles, and
(22:16):
somebody somewhere, whoever isbehind design and costume design
for them, nails it becausethey look as though they stepped
out of a 2001 JCPenney cat.
Yeah, perfect.
So she drives that.
You know, she drives that 1994Ford Ranger.
(22:38):
95 Ford Ranger.
They don't build them likethat anymore.
They know they don't.
And that is just spot on.
That's exactly what she wouldbe driving.
And everything about thisshow, they nail.
Down to the noise of the truck makes.
Yeah, that's exactly whatthose trucks sound like.
Yeah.
Needs a little tune up.
The setting is so good.
And I love that they'rewilling to give us something so grounded
(23:00):
and then give us ambiguity, too.
You know, I love that.
I love a show that's like,hey, I trust you.
You know, I trust that you'rewith me.
Mm.
I'll say, too, about thissetting and how much they nail it
when they walk outside and arehaving the quiet conversation and
Brad is being assaulted byessentially just what has become
(23:22):
wine.
At that point, the way that itlooked, I was looking up and down
that street like, my God, theyhad nailed that Thanksgiving afternoon
long shadow.
I mean, there's no way theydidn't shoot that at least this time
last year, right?
Yeah.
Or like, maybe you could getaway with that through, like, early
January.
I don't know.
There were still leaves on the trees.
(23:43):
It was perfect.
It was no perfect.
It was.
I.
There was nothing fake about that.
There was no, like, Californiamountain hiding in the distance or
anything like that.
And it was just.
It's the real deal.
It looks so good.
And it.
I don't know that.
That kind of quiet lonelinessof the world on a holiday just.
(24:03):
It was so apparent.
And I.
Yeah, I mean, we've praisedsome version of this almost every
time we talk about the show,but, man.
But no, every episode givesyou something else to point out in
a detailed form.
Do we want to toot our ownhorn here?
Do we want to.
I think we should just as away of saying thanks.
Yeah.
Well, I just think it would benice to say hello, creator and writer
(24:25):
of the show, Paul.
I'll just go by his first nameonly just to be ambiguous ourselves.
But he reached out to us tosay how much he appreciated our thoughts
and things about somebody somewhere.
He's.
He's one of the creators andwriters for the show.
He and his writing partner arevery into what we have said and I
think maybe even into what wesay about other shows.
(24:46):
So it's very cool to hear fromthe most important audience.
We could have.
We could have is the personwho created it.
I mean, when you're nailingit, you're nailing it, right?
I'll repeat what I said in the.
In the group chat that at atime when maybe we're a bit disillusioned
with the idea of the Internet, it.
Was perfect timing because Ihad gotten so many spam messages.
(25:08):
I was so tired of social media.
And I'll be damned.
I looked at this.
She sends it via Instagram AndI thought, okay, this is probably
another spam.
And I click on it.
And I was just like, I had tosit down on the bed as I was walking
by.
I sat down and then I sent itto you guys.
I was like, wow, this perfect time.
This is what you dream of whenyou find out about the Internet decades
(25:30):
ago, right?
Yes.
Not only has technologyadvanced enough that they can make
the show that they want tomake for the budget that they need
to make it in and have it lookthe way that it does and it goes
to HBO and then we stream it,which is still like if you just zoom
out a little bit, mindboggling that we can do that.
And then three idiots like usget together and talk about it.
(25:52):
And people listen becausethey're also curious about deep dive
into this great art.
And that's just so cool.
It's like the.
And he was incredibly kind.
It's Paul Thuring.
I'll just say it.
He's so kind and just sweet.
Like you would expect someonewho created somebody somewhere to
be.
So democracy may have failedin other ways this year, but the
(26:14):
democratization of theInternet, one shining example there.
Let's do talk about shrinkingbecause I do want to talk about the
first six episodes or at leastthere's a.
There's a chunk of them I wantto talk about.
Yes.
Seven of ten, I think areavailable for season two.
And like I said, my thesis isfor this season is that it's quite
enjoyable, but it may not be agood show.
(26:34):
It.
It's.
A lot of it is very well done.
It's not to slag on productionor anything.
I just think that there's.
I just have some issues with it.
It's.
I'll say this and this, thismay sound like a slag, but it.
And maybe it is shrinking.
Would love to be somebodysomewhere, but it hues way more closely
to Modern Family.
(26:56):
Yeah, that's it.
And I think it's fair, isn't it?
I think when you have a showwith an A list producer like that,
an A list actors, all of theseingredients being pushed heavily
by a company as big as Apple,like, yeah, of course it, it has
to air on the side of more popstuff that makes sense.
(27:20):
It's.
It's struggling to balance its tone.
We're coming out of a showjust now talking about somebody somewhere
that can manage any tone, it seems.
But shrinking has struggled here.
I think Ted Lasso might be itsclosest analog for different reasons,
all kinds of reasons.
He did a good job of lettingviewers know of how serious something's
is right here.
(27:41):
Even if it's played forlaughs, something about it would
stick with you or maybe evenget caught in your throat as you
were laughing about it in the moment.
But those shifts in shrinkingaren't as smooth.
Yeah, I think maybe a closercomparison to me would be Scrubs
because of the way, and Ithink I talked about this a few episodes
ago, just the need for thereto be an issue every week.
(28:03):
Like on Scrubs, it's easybecause you are encountering new
patients all the time and newdiseases and there's always something
to learn.
And you have yet again, aprotege very eager for approval and
a gruff older guy kind ofwithholding it.
But it felt more organic onScrubs because the setup lent itself
(28:24):
to that.
Whereas shrinking, it's kindof like you're just throwing issues
at this upper middle classcollection of neighbors and co workers
that doesn't feel authentic.
A couple examples I can thinkof is so Alice and Lewis.
Alice is the daughter.
Lewis is the man who hit andkilled her mom in a drunk driving
(28:47):
wreck.
They open up to one another inan incredibly good moment.
Episode five or so, about themidpoint, it's kind of tender.
She forgives him.
It's something her mom would do.
It's very well done and itlasts the perfect amount of time.
To give you the sense thatthis is vital.
We're gonna do a little bit ofa longer scene here.
(29:09):
But then it's still jarringthat she's not just hanging with
Lewis and Brian in the nextepisode, but that she's disclosing
private information to Lewis.
Considering that she had abench date with Paul that day, her
official therapist, she couldhave just shown up and talked about
it there.
But she blows him off instead,sends Liz.
(29:31):
Totally different story.
And that just felt too sudden.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And there's this idea thatLewis's life is Requiem for a Dream.
Bleak, yet he's cutting up andgiggling and almost playing a happier
version of Roy Kent again.
And I did not think he wasgoing to be playing that kind of
character in this one.
(29:51):
That one scene.
He's too quick to be a cut up.
Is that the problem?
To be cut up?
Too quick to maybe even hangout with them?
I think he would want to hangout with them.
I just don't think that he would.
I don't believe that she wouldbe disclosing her private life yet.
Well, she is also a 17 yearold who, you know, may not.
That's what they do Right.
(30:12):
I would assume.
I think the series can be toononchalant with the actions of its
characters.
Sean and his dad is a good example.
So Sean's on rocky terms withhis dad.
You know, he's the man whokicked him out of the house when
his violence was escalating.
And all it takes is one talkwith Jimmy and Paul.
And Sean's dad's in thehospital too.
Make amends.
(30:32):
I get.
It's a comedy.
It's a 30 minute show.
You can't have that drag outover the course of five episodes.
But at the same time, they didkeep us waiting for Lewis to come
back over the course of fouror five episodes.
It's like there are scenes onthe cutting room floor or there needs
to be some days in betweenthese lightning strike moments.
I think that's maybe what itis, that we're only getting the lightning
(30:54):
strikes.
And unlike Scrubs where it's,you know, you're dropping in on important
days in their life or that'show it felt.
It wasn't just a day to day.
Whereas shrinking feels a bitmore like we're just plodding along
through normal weeks in richperson suburbia.
And here's what happens.
Yeah.
The show struggles to show howextreme these characters are, how
(31:17):
extreme their problems can bebecause it's wrapped in comedy.
I think it always has to be cutesy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't realize the depths ofSean's anger, honestly.
Even though it was prettyclear in season one.
I didn't realize how deep itwas until it looked as though he
might punch Jimmy.
And I was like, oh, I shouldhave seen that maybe in season one
because that, you know, youreally like this guy.
(31:38):
He's your therapist and you'reabout to punch him.
That's.
That's very relevatory.
You know, sometimes I thinkabout the great Futurama line where
I think it's in the.
Where Faria is trying to writethe musical for Leela and it's criticized
and they say you can't justhave your characters say what they
think and feel.
That makes me feel angry.
(32:00):
And I think about that with shrinking.
No.
1.
Not that we're the most Sharigroup here about how we're.
We're feeling.
We probably.
I certainly skew to the farother end of the spectrum.
But he's just a sherry groupof people.
Well, so Alice and Summer maynot be the best examples because
they're teens and that teenscan resolve conflict faster than
(32:22):
adults sometimes.
Depending.
But in two episodes with noScreen time together, they go from
fighting, hitting each otherin the boob to reconciliation.
I just think we need somescreen time before we can get there.
I felt that that was, like yousaid, it's teen stuff.
And I.
(32:42):
It gave me the good chuckleof, like, all the adults being, like,
summer's kind of talented withtheir Diss track on TikTok.
I thought that was good.
Is Gabby a good person?
She doesn't want to help herfledgling sister care for her mom.
And that part's only playedfor jokes.
It feels.
That feels off too.
Like, shouldn't we be pissedat Gabby?
(33:04):
It's not like she's acharacter from It's Always Sunny.
She's not like that.
Sort of bad.
But she's also not helpingwith her mom because she wasn't helped
out much when she was young.
What?
It's also her sister, likepaying a penance of sorts for being
a drug addict.
Okay, that's what I wasthinking, but again, I don't like
(33:27):
it.
You get this information, butI think it's so small and quick,
sometimes you forget it.
And that's maybe on me.
I thought that that was a gooddoling out of motivation that she.
I would imagine if you're in asituation where you want an addict
to change, even after they putin the work, it would be hard to
forget who they were.
Especially if it's your littlesister, if it's family, if you're.
(33:48):
I think you can love them andbe happy for them, but still be like,
shit, I had to take care ofyou and our mom and all of these
things.
You're going to put in alittle more time and I'm going to
live my.
Now that I finally have somefreedom, I'm going to live my life.
Because she also came out ofthat, the terrible marriage.
Right.
Okay.
So, yeah, no, she did.
And he was an addict, too.
Right?
Right.
But I'm.
(34:09):
Some of this is.
I'm here to defend Gabby.
So, yeah, you go.
Who's not?
I mean, I hated even askingthe question.
I was really stoked and stillof the belief to have Derek play
a larger role this season is agood idea.
Deft move by the show, I oftenthink, in season one.
What's up with this guy andhis sunshine demeanor?
What's his secret?
(34:30):
And even if he doesn't have asecret, he's still pleasant to have
on screen.
Giving him the plot of Lizthough, his wife, kissing another
man, I guess that's a right move.
But it feels unfortunatebecause I think Liz is kind of an
ass even without having kissedanother man.
No, Derek is a saint.
I'm talking about Ted McGinley.
Yeah.
(34:50):
Who?
Famous in the 80s for being aantagonist villain.
Asshole.
But here he's just kind of arich, retired young guy who's also
incredibly.
Kind and has great hair.
Oh, beautiful hair.
That man's hair.
See, the Liz situation issomething that I think is a symptom
of them just inventing problems.
(35:10):
I'm trying not to spoilanything in the next episode, but
obviously people.
People do things, and it'soften their actions are not in isolation.
Like, it doesn't just have todo with, like, how she feels about
this guy.
It's all these other things inher life.
They mind that in aninteresting way.
But it's also like, oh, thingsare going too good.
We need to throw a wrench infor the sake of story.
(35:31):
Yeah.
I do think they get it rightin having her admit in the very same
episode, the kiss.
Having admit that to herhusband Derek.
It happens in an instant.
And it doesn't belabor that.
You know, this idea that mightdislike Liz.
The baby storyline for Brianfeels too obvious.
His storyline is too obviousand too boring for this show.
(35:53):
And that feels very modern family.
Mm.
Yeah.
No reason to shit on a comedyfor two for its reality, but there's
no way in hell an Englishbulldog's gonna be in an animal shelter.
Sorry.
Like, you.
Like, you paid too much moneyfor that or like, oh, outside of
its carefully controlledconditions, it died.
(36:15):
Well, there's also.
We've had English bulldogsbefore, and my dad decided he didn't
want to put up with it, so hewould say, does he may want to, you
know, buy this puppy?
Sure.
Cheaper amount.
Most people would because it'sa little cheaper.
But they want the English bulldog.
Yeah.
I mean, no.
Nobody puts a bulldog in the shelter.
Let's go back to say nothing.
(36:35):
Shift gears here.
All episodes now on Hulu.
We're gonna talk about thefirst five or six of the nine, I
think.
Is it close to where we are?
Four, five or six?
Four.
And then we'll probably end updoing the back half of the series.
They pulled a Netflix here.
Simply dropped them onNovember 14th for.
Whatever damn reason you guysweren't having it.
(36:57):
I listened.
I heard Yalls opinions.
Not a fan.
Having watched more of it, Ithink this one could have benefited
from week by week too.
That's exactly what I wasgonna say.
Week to week's the maneuverfor this because I've changed my
stance heavily since lastWeek, which you goddamn better have.
Well, no, no, no.
I, like, I kind of had to bethe overly critical guy, I think,
(37:18):
last week just to havesomething a little to say.
You're lucky I didn't climbthrough my earbuds and just give
the old what for.
Well, I was going to say thatI changed my stance pretty drastically.
I like the show, don't get mewrong, first two episodes, but I
had qualms with it.
And this isn't just becauseAdam's here today and loves the show
(37:39):
thoroughly.
It's.
As the season continues, itstops moving about as much and it
really gets focused.
I would be curious how muchmore I would like it if it was week
to week.
I think it'd have more time tosit with stuff, if nothing else,
because just, you know, if itwas just the way we watch it, right?
It's like, oh, I want to knowwhat happens next.
(38:00):
This was maybe one of thecomplaints I said earlier that the
Northern Ireland subreddit hadissues with this, that it.
Was all dropped at once.
No, the issue was kind of whaty'all are talking about a bit with
the pacing.
Like, I do find myself wantingto hit next episode when one ends.
And they said that based onthe book, they had wished that, like,
(38:22):
an HBO would pick it upinstead and something like a Wire
treatment would do really wellfor the Troubles.
Instead of, like a politicalintrigue kind of.
You need something where it'slike, there are no winners in a way,
versus, like, they look prettycool while they're doing this stuff.
I suspect that's all going tocome crashing down at some point.
(38:43):
I mean, it definitely is, but some.
Of these episodes aredrastically different than the previous.
And it's odd.
I think sometimes I was soldon the intensity, the political drama,
the historical fiction, inthat it's a series and not a documentary.
Early it came off as a shotgun approach.
What kept it kind of kept someof the interesting characters on
(39:07):
screen less.
You know, I was thinking,okay, well, who's our primary character?
Should I care about?
Dolores, if she's to be themain focus and do I care about her
as much?
And then it was this curiousmethod of doling out bits and pieces
of Jean's story.
The mother of 10 who's takenaway at the middle of night.
(39:27):
That just felt like one moredangling thread.
Although now I'm starting tosee how that fits nicely.
But in the first one or twoepisodes, it was just another thread
of, I'm gonna throw all thisout here at you.
It is a Lot.
And I think maybe the.
I'll give one interaction withthe story of the Troubles that I've
had was going to the ImperialWar Museum in London and they had
(39:51):
this great, almost entirefloor exhibit dedicated to the Troubles,
which was kind of crazybecause the IRA actually bombed the
Imperial War Museum at one point.
So you're in a building thathas itself been a part of this.
And I thought, okay, I'mfinally gonna.
Here's like a toehold to startwrapping my head around this whole
thing.
And I go in and the entireexhibit is set up so that you have
(40:16):
two sides to every story.
You don't really learnanything except the.
You hate to use the word vibein this day and age.
But the vibe of the conflictmore than like, the actual, like,
who, what, when, where.
And I left even more confused,which was.
But having learned a lot, butstill being like, profoundly confused
(40:37):
about all of the details.
And I wonder if the way thisshow started isn't an attempt to
do the same thing.
Like, here's like a bunch of spaghetti.
We're throwing it at the wall.
Yeah.
It was complex.
It was confusing to the people involved.
Now, let's go ahead with the story.
The last quarter of the secondepisode, it started improving leaps
and bounds.
(40:57):
But that kind of bothers mebecause I think the worst thing I
can say to someone in our dayand age with our attention spans
dropping like Boeing jets, is,you got to stick around through second
episode.
Or.
I just hate being having tosay that.
But it does improve by reiningin some of these storylines.
I think the best episodes arethose where Dollar is.
(41:18):
Again, we're in spoilers.
Dollar has to take Joe to be killed.
Like, that's a singular story.
And she plans and executessome of her other ideas.
Gosh, I think I gotta step onmy own toes here.
I almost spoiled some thingsthat you guys haven't seen.
Tell me what happens inepisode four so I'll know my.
(41:39):
My line of demarcation episodefour is.
Where two of the.
The fellows, one particularlyyoung, are captured by the British
and turned.
And then they turn them in.
A great episode because we'rekind of focused on those two.
Well, young people.
Yeah.
One very much a kid, one ayoung man.
(41:59):
Right.
Very similar thing whereDolores has to take those two guys
away.
Yeah.
And that's.
Again, the episode is almostsingularly focused on that.
And I really can get into itand be swayed by the emotions that
are involved.
That's interesting.
And I don't disagree with you.
I thought that those Werereally good and they're tight and
(42:20):
focused.
But for me, especially the onewhere Jerry gets killed, it worked
really well for me.
Sorry, Joe.
Jerry Adams is very much aliveand he's in Ireland, and he is not.
A part of the ira.
He is not a part of the ira.
But when Joe gets killed, thatactually kind of worked because it
is weaving in and out of allthe other things they're doing, right?
(42:42):
Like getting explosives andthen like, somebody has shot the
guy that they end up executingJoe for.
And you don't kind of know.
And it clicks together.
And then.
Same thing for me, where Ifelt like the one with the two fellows,
it's more focused, but it does.
It is the same thing of kindof keeping me off balance because
Dolores is hardly in it.
It focuses on Brendan and the British.
(43:03):
And the Seamus and Beaky.
Seamus and Beaky.
Kevin, right?
Is that his name?
Kevin?
His real name?
Yeah, it focuses more on that.
And so I'm actually okay withit being focused on what it wants
to be focused on.
Because all these things arekind of stuck in each other, right?
And you start pulling on one,and they all start.
You pull on all of them.
This may be misapplying theterm, but it is a certain form of
(43:24):
guerilla warfare, right, whereit's like, they're not the British
in the palace barracks, right?
They are amongst the folks,the people, and they live their lives
amongst the people.
Not that the British don't getout, as we saw with the border guard
going to the club.
But you'll notice too, thatthose episodes three and four, and
(43:45):
also you'll see this in fiveand six, that they are less reliant
on the interview process.
And I think that helps.
Marian isn't part of theinterviews, at least not yet, which
makes leaves me on edgeanytime they're.
Any violence happening.
I keep thinking, oh, God, isthis why she's not in the interview
(44:07):
process?
Sort of annoying thing aboutit all being dropped at once is that
Marian is often mentioned inthe little episode descriptions.
And you can see them all at once.
Oh, yeah.
Guess she's still gonna bethere for.
You know, whenever the showcooks for me.
When I came to therealization, of course, too late,
(44:27):
as I tend to be beingignorant, that it.
In order to touch on a themewithin a theme that I think they're
trying to do here is you haveto keep dollar us at the center of
this particular version of the Troubles.
Marian as well, you get thissense that women are able to do things
just as even Better than themen in some cases.
(44:48):
They've always made these hugesacrifices that tend to get pushed
under the rug or not focusedon most cases.
And some of those middleepisodes, which we're starting to
get into.
Dollars and Marion make thesehorrific sacrifices that really get
really help, you see?
Oh, okay.
(45:09):
I see why that they should beprobably front and center.
Thoughts on the dark?
Anthony Boyle's character as Brendan.
Like him, he's so good actor.
The best performance.
He's.
Well, he.
Two things.
He really made me laugh when,like, maybe it's the older guy who
says it, but he's like, that'dbe our day.
He's like, get up some armedrobbery, maybe plant a bomb, then
(45:34):
try and get a pint.
Like, what a life.
I thought he was at his bestat the episode with the counterintelligence,
because.
With Seamus and Kevin havingto make those big decisions on his
own.
Yeah.
And he's like, he knows theyshould die, and he's trying to get
them back in.
And then when Jerry finallybrings him in, he doesn't, like,
(45:55):
overact it.
It's just you can see on hisface that he's hearing something
hard and he's crying a little,and that's it.
That's pretty much all he does.
And it was so good.
He's friendly with these guys.
One's a kid.
And he's also giving them his word.
And he just can't bear to say,okay, I kind of sort of had to lie
to you.
Yeah, I thought that was.
(46:16):
He's very fun to watch.
You get the sense that Jerrydid it through his intelligence.
As far as smarts is what I mean.
And his ingratiation with someof the older guys.
Absolutely.
He was.
He was clearly, like one oftheir best operatives.
Gave the opportunity for RoryKinnear to give that powerful line
of, we'll just let them kill themselves.
(46:38):
I like him.
Not the general, I mean, butRory Kinnear.
I really like what he's doing.
Really interesting to see.
I mean, I guess because thisis realistic.
Right.
But the counterintelligence work.
Not to go on like, a longdiatribe, but I read a really interesting
thing with one of the militaryprosecutors who got the guys from
the USS Cole bombing to talkversus what we did post 9 11.
(47:02):
You don't just punch people.
They have sitting down,drinking tea.
Do you want to see my gut?
Basically, building rapport ishow you get people to talk.
And that's what makes him.
Doing that in this makes himseem, like, almost more dangerous
because he's smart.
He knows how to get.
He's not going to beat it outof them.
(47:23):
He knows that doesn't work.
He's going to use whatevertactic he needs to.
We're going to end here.
Quite likely.
We'll wrap up our thoughts onsay Nothing next week.
It could happen that way.
I'm, like, excited.
Almost feels weird to sayabout a show like this, but it's
well made and I'm interestedin talking and thinking about it.
Well, it's wonderful atbuilding its tension and that makes
(47:45):
you want to see how it's resolved.
Right.
It is very good.
It is very good.
And I do like how, too, it'splaying with that dramatic irony.
Right.
Because we know.
Oh, gosh, I completely forgother name.
The poor woman at the centerof all this.
Dolorous.
And Brendan, we definitely.
Oh, no.
The woman who's taken Jean.
Thanks.
Sorry.
We know that Jean isn't goingto make it because we know her body
(48:07):
wasn't found until the 2000s.
We know the other two are gonna.
Right.
So it's playing with that.
I like that it's doing thatbecause it's keeping me interested
when, in a sense, I alreadyknow what's gonna happen.
Right.
Yeah.
Here's the ending.
Stick with us to see how itgot there.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
We're gonna end here.
You can follow us on social media.
Reach out, say hello.
(48:28):
Hey.
It works sometimes.
And follow the podcast in yourfavorite app to listen to, such as
that.
We'll be out every Tuesday morning.
Morning.
Unless we tell you we'retaking a break for a week.
For Adam and Donovan, I'mBlaine and we'll talk to you later.
Alabama Tape Projection.
Okay, got Donovan and Adam here.
Last week we got into the newFX Hulu show say Nothing, which has
to be produced by our own Adam Morrow.
You know, fellows, I don'toften listen to our podcast.
(00:23):
I sit through it.
You know, it's been quite afew episodes and I pulled.
Pulled y'all up this week.
And I gotta say, listening toa production that you're a part of,
the pressure feels on nowbecause I have seen the consumer
side.
And Blaine, you've puttogether a great product.
One, but two, now, now I'mthinking about, oh, my God, someone
(00:43):
else could be listening tothis on earbuds right now.
And if so, I'm sorry forwhatever I do.
These, these two were great.
Our listenership has grown andthank you all for listeners.
Anyway, for listeners, thisseries say Nothing Donovan, I did
talk about last week.
Adams mentioned that, but weonly talked about two episodes.
Now we're in our non spoilersection, so don't.
Don't Run for the hills.
(01:04):
It's Based off the 2018 bookby Patrick Radon Keefe about the
troubles in Northern Ireland.
It's from creator Josh Zidmer.
Say Nothing's based on thetrue story of the 70s, 80s and 90s
war, if that's what you chooseto call it.
I do.
Between the ira, who wishedfor a united Ireland, and the British,
(01:25):
who had control of Northern Ireland.
It's from a set of interviewsof IRA members involved, many of
whom requested their accountsnot be shared until after their deaths.
Donovan, we were close aboutwhere these interviews are housed.
They are at Boston College.
Okay, that was another one.
I knew it was somewhere up there.
My main takeaway fromlistening last week, this is not
(01:45):
a spoiler, is that Donovan hasbeen overexposed to the city of Boston
and has feelings.
Takes, if you will, in our spoiler.
Section later, we're going totalk about the first five episodes,
possibly four.
For sure, maybe five.
But I suspect we're all fansof the show.
(02:05):
We would recommend it as a viewing.
Right.
So that's the part of thepodcast we're in right now.
My question is maybe why?
Or if you have a specificsegment of people that would enjoy
it more or just why do youlike it?
You know, Adam's stealing mythunder here, but yeah, if you're
from Boston, you'll probablylike this show.
(02:25):
It was interesting to heary'all talk about, who is this for?
And even Blaine.
I noticed you have possiblylearned something in the last few
weeks.
You called it a war andunderstood that that was a.
It's a little bit politicalright to say that, or it certainly
would have been then.
I think one thing thatoccurred to me while watching it
(02:47):
and then maybe y'all didn'ttouch on is how much Donovan alluded
to it when he is joking aboutBoston, but how much the idea of
being Irish or Scottish orScotch Irish, which is its own can
of worms.
How much of the Americanpopulation identifies in some way
with these islands or placeson the outskirts of the United Kingdom.
(03:10):
And you talked about peoplewho love historical drama or political
intrigue.
I think there's like a senseof identity for some people in like,
figuring out what happened.
Because, like, y'all, I'm kindof like, well, I know that they don't
like each other, but I don'treally know why.
And I know that if you go backenough generations, someone.
I would have had an opinion onthis because I would have lived somewhere
nearby like that.
(03:32):
I think that that is maybe interesting.
And you hate to call an armedconflict quirky, but like, it's such
a part of Western civilizationin the 20th century.
And my history book, if we hadit, it was at the chapters that,
like, they ran out of time andglazed over at the end.
It having a wider audience isa good thing.
(03:54):
That's a long answer.
I'm sorry.
This is great.
No, I was bowled over by thefact that I was like, wait, Ireland
was a war torn country, or atleast Northern Ireland was a war
torn country.
You just thought it wasBelfast greenery and leprechauns.
Exactly.
I thought it was fine.
Some Guinness.
Had you asked me in 1989 as akid, you want to go to Belfast?
I would have been like, sure,yeah, let's go.
(04:15):
He's just got to stand thepeace wall.
Blaine, of course.
Right.
But I would have still, Iwouldn't have known that it was a
troublesome area.
I mean, y'all not portrayed inthe media.
Y'all joked about not havingme here to keep you updated on what
Bono was doing at a giventime, but it is.
It is insane to think about,say, like the unforgettable fire
(04:37):
record being made less thanlike an hour and a half from the
H blocks.
You know, it's all of thesethings happening in such a tiny place,
relatively.
It's just mind boggling noteven being that far away.
Like when I was a graduateassistant at Alabama, our Alabama,
the University of Alabama, theassistant dean of the graduate school
(04:58):
was from England.
He's like, yeah, I remember anIRA bomb going off he's like, I was
walking down the street.
Amazing.
Insane.
It's scary.
Yeah.
He's like, if it didn't killyou, it wasn't that big a deal.
It happened all the time.
They weren't usually trying tokill anyone.
The show's really good foranyone who likes tension, intrigue,
a little.
There's not quite a lot.
It's.
It's a political intrigue,historical kind of fiction.
(05:19):
They fictionalize, obviously,some of this they have to, but it's
the high tension.
And obviously, if you don'tknow much about Ireland, but you
want to, I.
Will say that as I searchedaround the Internet for reviews and
that sort of thing, obviously,I will joke again.
I'm surprised y'all didn'tmake point of Reddit not being represented
(05:42):
here last week.
But in the Northern Irelandsubreddit, previous to this show
being made, if somebody camein, there were a few threads that
said, you know, I am Xgenerations removed from Ireland.
I would love to understand theTroubles and ask for, like, literature,
documentary, whatever.
And after this book came out,this was widely recommended.
(06:02):
The source text for this show,that made me feel good.
The opinion seems to be alittle split on the program itself,
but it seems authenticated insome way.
The source text, at least.
I'm surprised you haven't read it.
Well, it's on the list now.
Gotcha.
Yeah, it does sound good.
To follow up Adam's thingabout identity.
I'd completely forgotten this.
Yeah, a lot of this stuff isstill very close to the surface.
(06:25):
So much so that, for instance,I have a coworker who's very Italian.
Like, her parents are Italian.
In the city that she grew up,there were Italian kids and there
were Irish kids, and they didnot like each other.
So she's like, yeah, we'd wearorange on St Patrick's Day.
I was like.
I was like, holy shit.
She's like, we didn't knowwhat it meant.
(06:45):
We just knew it annoyed theIrish kids.
I had a.
That one that's kind ofincredible and horrible.
But I had a boss who was fromNew Jersey and had been adopted.
He was Irish Catholic and beenadopted by an Irish Catholic couple.
And they had all these Italian friends.
And he said, oh, there were fights.
(07:06):
Oh, yeah.
Which is not to tip our hand here.
But growing up in Alabama,obviously the idea of whiteness is
complex and manipulated andall of these things.
These are little nuances thatwe didn't really get in rural Alabama.
It's not the same.
Right.
The beginning of our spoilersection will start soon.
(07:28):
But we'll also talk about thefairly popular Apple TV show Shrinking,
and almost all of that secondseason that's aired.
There are seven episodes.
We'll probably discuss six now.
That's helmed by famous TVcreator Bill Lawrence.
If.
If you haven't heard his name,you probably have watched his television
shows, Ted Lasso or Scrubs.
(07:48):
He also created and had a bighand in producing, I think, Bad Monkey
for Apple as well, which wecovered here.
Shrinking stars Jason Siegel,Harrison Ford, and Jessica Williams
as therapists with plenty ofproblems of their own to solve.
Jason Siegel's characterhaving a deceased wife who died in
(08:08):
a car accident when she washit by a drunk driver.
More on those plot points later.
But if you've seen any of theseries, you know that aspect that's
in the opening scene.
My question is asstraightforward as it gets.
To begin, is this show good?
I very much enjoyed seasonone, and I think it came out at a
time when I was disappointedwith how Ted Lasso was going or had
(08:32):
gone.
I'm gonna mix up the exacttimeline there, but it felt closer
to what I liked about the runof Ted Lasso.
This season has taken.
We're at an odd point to cutit off because I feel like it's drawing
a real big circle and tryingto bring it home.
And I think it might do it,but I'm kind of Season two.
(08:53):
I haven't been able to decideif it is a little overindulgent or
not.
We can compare it to its other programs.
It's funny, you said if you.
If you're not familiar withits creator, Bill Lawrence.
I mean, he was kind of inescapable.
I'm laughing in my head at,like, how much Scrubs me and Donovan
watched just as a byproduct ofhaving cable when we were in college
(09:13):
because it was just on all the time.
And his.
That brand of humor.
Does it always land for you ordo you ever run into, like, okay,
quirkiness is quirky.
Time is over.
Let's.
Let's move forward.
It is not a laugh out loudshow for me.
It's.
It's a.
It makes me smile or maybechuckle at best, though that's not
(09:33):
to say I don't like it.
Did Ted Lasso make you laughout loud?
Sometimes.
Every now and again.
A higher lull ratio than shrinking.
Yeah.
My thesis on shrinking thisseason is that it's enjoyable, but
it's.
It may not be a good show.
Mm.
It is enjoyable, except for.
I mean, does it make you Wantto engage in class warfare.
(09:57):
Doesn't everything explain why?
Education, class warfare.
We are the working man's podcast.
It kind of does.
Sometimes I do think aboutthat, especially this season, more
so than I ever.
Have with shrinking money andcomfort and material things are not
an issue in the shrinking world.
(10:19):
And they all just look so damncozy all the time.
You said that.
You can just almost smell themthrough the tv.
They smell good, you know,they smell good.
They smell great.
And, you know, every hoodie is soft.
Every t shirt costs 75 and their.
Hoodies haven't been washed tohell and back.
They didn't source them at the target.
(10:42):
God, I'd like a sweated shirtlike that.
And real quick, while we'restill in non spoiler territory, it's
about the Apple TV plus movie.
It's been on the streamer forabout two weeks, maybe one week.
It's Blitz.
It's a World War II movie, asyou may be able to deduce from the
name.
Stars the Irish.
(11:02):
Do you want me to say it,Blaine, please.
Saoirse Ronan Saran.
Never get that correct becauseI see it in writing and my brain
will not let me.
Okay.
It's directed by the revereddirector Steve McQueen, who's known
for 12 Years a Slave andwidows and a few more things.
Now, Donovan and I haven'tseen it, but.
Adam, do you want to add somethings in our non spoiler section
(11:24):
about Blitz?
Yeah.
Saoirse Ronan is like, almostcan't miss, right?
Yeah, she is for you.
I mean, I think she'sbrilliant and very, very, very talented.
And it's like her making goodchoices and her elevating the films
that she's in.
Yeah, by that I mean, like, ifshe's in something, I'm probably
(11:45):
going to enjoy that film andher performance.
And then if I told you she'sin World War II movie, you're all
in.
This is literally the sellingto me of this trailer.
I don't even know if I watchedthe trailer.
Somebody just said, saoirseRonan's in a film about the London
Blitz.
Okay.
But it was.
It was good.
It wasn't.
It possibly had some identityissues, couldn't quite decide what
(12:10):
kind of film it wanted to beand wavered at times and maybe a
few missteps.
Maybe you could have cut a fewscenes, I don't know.
But it was a glimpse at maybethinking about something like Masters
of Air that we watched thisyear, or Band Of Brothers where they're
on leave and you kind of seehow Civilians are living.
And I don't know if you everthought, oh, it'd be interesting
(12:32):
to see a whole movie series,whatever, about people who are not,
like, in the war effort in aLeague of Their Own kind of way,
but, like, are actuallygetting bombed in that armed conflict
in that way.
It was.
I mean, at times it was like ahorror film.
I mean, it was really.
Yeah, it was nightmarish inthe way that everything that I've
(12:52):
ever read about living throughthe Blitz sounded.
You know, I'm in Death fromthe Skies at any moment and just
going with the stiff upper lipby day in that way.
I think it succeeded in other ways.
I wanted it.
It was like, probably like a Cmovie that I really thought, with
a few changes, could have beensolid B.
(13:13):
C from Steve McQueen.
A C movie.
Wow.
I don't know.
But at the same time, it verymuch stayed with me.
Maybe it's one of those thingswhere, like, things that are just
slightly out of focus, in youropinion, bother you that much more
than things that are justoutright bad.
Yeah, that makes sense.
Yes.
It's the little details,right, that get you more almost than
the big ones.
And obviously just one man'sopinion here, but I do think y'all
(13:35):
should watch it.
That would.
If that factors into theoverall score, I would recommend
it.
And I didn't look at my phone,so two for two there.
There you go.
That's very good for us.
We're gonna take a littlebreak here.
We'll jump into spoilers inabout 30 seconds.
(13:58):
Taking it down in our homesite, the Alabama Take are thrilled
to use descript if you have a podcaster.
If you're thinking aboutstarting one, but you're worried
about time commitment, worry not.
Give Descript a try with thelink in the show notes.
Not only does Descript giveyou a trustworthy platform to record
your episodes, but it alsomakes editing a breeze.
It takes each speaker's audioand video and transform it all into
(14:18):
a Word document, which you canuse to edit.
Or you can still use the Wavefiles to edit.
It's up to you with the script.
Check out the link in the show notes.
Okay, we are in spoilers.
Anything goes here.
If you anything may.
(14:42):
I swear.
Are you kidding me?
Donovan always works blue.
Check your time steps and chapter.
Whichever one you use.
I know Apple podcasts haslittle chapter things.
Check those because we'regonna might spoil some things in
quick succession here.
Most recent thoughts onSomebody Somewhere the Thanksgiving
episode.
Oh, man, what a perfectlytimed episode.
(15:03):
How does this show I thinkI've said it a zillion times, but
it's the bitter and the sweetlying side by side.
There's no hope.
But there's all.
I mean, sorry.
It's not that there's no hope.
There is hope.
But I really, really love theway it's engaging with stuff like
Brad and Joel moving together.
And it's like, it's a goodthing, but it's not 100% uncomplicated.
(15:25):
Like everybody has to make.
And then whatever is causingJoel to cry.
Right.
Is it something with Brad?
Is it kids?
Is it the guy who apologizedto him?
You know, there's like, haveyou not.
Ever cried at the end ofThanksgiving when everyone leaves?
Well, just that emotional.
I cried the next morning whenI see the dishes.
Yeah.
(15:45):
Anyway, good.
We all like Iceland, right?
Yes, it is funny, the slowburn of that relationship.
In another, it may feelcliched that they would get together
or be seeming to move in thatdirection, but in this one, they're
both so, like, hapless atmaking it occur that it's endearing
(16:08):
and it feels earned in the plot.
And.
And then Brad and Joel, someof the tension has been like, is
Joel making a good decision here?
Has he made a good decision?
But then when all of thesethings come to light, Brad's like,
yeah, of course I'll accommodate.
What it ends up being like,the most human wholesome reaction,
which was great.
I know we're gonna talk aboutshrinking and if you have seen the
(16:30):
most recent episode, whichwe're not gonna discuss, but I watched
this Thanksgiving somebodysomewhere, and then that newest episode
of Shrinking back to Back, andthis was some heavy lifting from
two usually kind oflighthearted, wholesome program.
Somebody somewhere.
That Thanksgiving episode wasso good.
It was so good.
Yeah.
(16:50):
Now, what makes it good, itcontinues with giving you reality
but not making you feeloverwhelmed with seeing reality.
There's no one scrolling theirphone on this show and reading headlines
about Trump.
Or anything, though they have,of all people, very much have earned
(17:10):
some anxiety.
Yeah, absolutely.
Will Joel and Brad.
Is that going to dissolve?
We'll see how big a thing kids is.
You're definitely rooting forit, right?
Like, Brad seems like a gentle soul.
Joel seems is a gentle soul.
Very much.
You know what I really likedfrom this episode was like.
(17:32):
And I thought there were bitsof this that were very funny.
And I'm really especiallyliking Trish this season.
Josh is the low key MVP of the cg.
She's so funny.
Her getting wine drunk, likeat the Std.
Last episode and then hergetting wine drunk.
This episode was great.
But I loved the bit where Samtook the time to say to Joel, like,
(17:55):
you have a gift for makingpeople happy.
Because how often do we tellour friends things like that?
But they need to hear it.
That was great.
I thought that was great.
Just that moment and it comingto that moment.
That was great.
Listeners, in case you want aglimpse into us, I feel the three
of us are actually kind ofgood at that.
We could be characters onsomebody somewhere.
Not good ones.
(18:16):
Not good.
Yeah.
Wow.
It was just a great episode.
I honestly am not as preparedto talk about this episode as I wish
I was, but it stuck with meenough that I can bring out some
certain things that happened.
And the main thing is thatJoel's crying.
I think that's a point ofconversation for many people online.
You know, what did it mean?
Are they bound for a possibledivorce or split or maybe a fight?
(18:41):
It's so funny.
Television has trained us inmovies, have trained us to expect
the big conflict.
They're going to yell andscream at each other in the next
episode.
And I'll be honest, I watchthis show and every now and again,
I'll find myself getting tenseand then realize it's not this kind
of show.
Just chill out.
They immediately subvert thatwith the Jules piano reappearing
(19:03):
this episode.
Right?
Yeah.
Yes.
You know, when Fred's wife,she badgers Brad almost during Thanksgiving
about, you know, over some wine.
She's getting.
She's getting a little winedrunk herself.
And she's badgering him abouthis two sons who are grown.
Oh, you know, how'd that happen?
How'd that come to be?
We want to hear this story.
And everyone's awkwardly kindof looking to say, maybe we don't.
(19:27):
Maybe we should give him abreak on this.
And Brad, again, gently.
No, I'll tell you.
Yeah.
That was so good.
And I kept thinking, he, man,this is going to break.
Something's going to break here.
No, it does not.
One interesting callback I'dlike to make that when Joel and Brad
go to their devotional group.
(19:48):
Yeah, good, too.
It was really good.
And even the book that theywere reading is.
I know.
The book that they're practicing.
The Prince of God.
Right.
That's what they're going saythe title again.
Practicing the Presence of God.
Okay.
Which is a beloved book.
And if you were in, like, thechurch world, you'd be like, oh,
(20:10):
this.
This group has a little depth,you know, like they're.
They're about their business.
But I think that's kind of thebeautiful thing about the show.
Right.
That we've talked about a lotis, yes, they're in this red state.
Yes, this is a gay couplegoing to a space that would have
been hostile to them not long ago.
Very recent history.
But here's this Brad guywho's, like, completely grace filled
(20:30):
and gentle and able to dealwith this incredibly complex.
I mean, that was like aHemingway short story in a way that
he told over the table.
But he does it with such.
He's extending her thiscompassion that is not necessarily
coming his way.
That it shows, like, not only.
(20:50):
Not that like, you have to.
Good people come from religionexclusively, but, like, here's a
guy that maybe was notaccepted in a world that still gave
him a lot and taught him howto deal with these situations.
I don't know.
I just think he's kind of agenius character.
Oh, man.
Yeah.
If something happens to Brad,I'm gonna set myself on fire.
That's why I don't want.
I don't want Joel's meltdownto be about a possible breakup.
(21:14):
I would rather it be moreabout, whoo, I'm overwhelmed.
That was a big day.
You know, the other side ofthat is someone who's in a.
What society would call acomplex relationship.
Right.
That she's the one badgeringhim about these details.
Yeah.
It seemed like an unspokenthing that everybody at that table
would understand.
(21:34):
Hey, you don't have to diginto somebody's life before you knew
them.
There's pain at that table.
You would think.
Well, none of them are withfamily except for Sam and Trish.
Right.
Yes.
It's a friendsgiving, but theydo it on Thanksgiving.
Donovan, I may have said thisto our group, and if not, sorry.
(21:55):
Well, maybe.
Maybe I should apologizebecause you're going to hear it twice.
But I was telling Adam thatone of the big differences between
a show like shrinking and ashow like somebody somewhere can
be reduced down to shrinking.
Looks as though they buy theirclothes there in Los Angeles, and
(22:16):
somebody somewhere, whoever isbehind design and costume design
for them, nails it becausethey look as though they stepped
out of a 2001 JCPenney cat.
Yeah, perfect.
So she drives that.
You know, she drives that 1994Ford Ranger.
(22:38):
95 Ford Ranger.
They don't build them likethat anymore.
They know they don't.
And that is just spot on.
That's exactly what she wouldbe driving.
And everything about thisshow, they nail.
Down to the noise of the truck makes.
Yeah, that's exactly whatthose trucks sound like.
Yeah.
Needs a little tune up.
The setting is so good.
And I love that they'rewilling to give us something so grounded
(23:00):
and then give us ambiguity, too.
You know, I love that.
I love a show that's like,hey, I trust you.
You know, I trust that you'rewith me.
Mm.
I'll say, too, about thissetting and how much they nail it
when they walk outside and arehaving the quiet conversation and
Brad is being assaulted byessentially just what has become
(23:22):
wine.
At that point, the way that itlooked, I was looking up and down
that street like, my God, theyhad nailed that Thanksgiving afternoon
long shadow.
I mean, there's no way theydidn't shoot that at least this time
last year, right?
Yeah.
Or like, maybe you could getaway with that through, like, early
January.
I don't know.
There were still leaves on the trees.
(23:43):
It was perfect.
It was no perfect.
It was.
I.
There was nothing fake about that.
There was no, like, Californiamountain hiding in the distance or
anything like that.
And it was just.
It's the real deal.
It looks so good.
And it.
I don't know that.
That kind of quiet lonelinessof the world on a holiday just.
(24:03):
It was so apparent.
And I.
Yeah, I mean, we've praisedsome version of this almost every
time we talk about the show,but, man.
But no, every episode givesyou something else to point out in
a detailed form.
Do we want to toot our ownhorn here?
Do we want to.
I think we should just as away of saying thanks.
Yeah.
Well, I just think it would benice to say hello, creator and writer
(24:25):
of the show, Paul.
I'll just go by his first nameonly just to be ambiguous ourselves.
But he reached out to us tosay how much he appreciated our thoughts
and things about somebody somewhere.
He's.
He's one of the creators andwriters for the show.
He and his writing partner arevery into what we have said and I
think maybe even into what wesay about other shows.
(24:46):
So it's very cool to hear fromthe most important audience.
We could have.
We could have is the personwho created it.
I mean, when you're nailingit, you're nailing it, right?
I'll repeat what I said in the.
In the group chat that at atime when maybe we're a bit disillusioned
with the idea of the Internet, it.
Was perfect timing because Ihad gotten so many spam messages.
(25:08):
I was so tired of social media.
And I'll be damned.
I looked at this.
She sends it via Instagram AndI thought, okay, this is probably
another spam.
And I click on it.
And I was just like, I had tosit down on the bed as I was walking
by.
I sat down and then I sent itto you guys.
I was like, wow, this perfect time.
This is what you dream of whenyou find out about the Internet decades
(25:30):
ago, right?
Yes.
Not only has technologyadvanced enough that they can make
the show that they want tomake for the budget that they need
to make it in and have it lookthe way that it does and it goes
to HBO and then we stream it,which is still like if you just zoom
out a little bit, mindboggling that we can do that.
And then three idiots like usget together and talk about it.
(25:52):
And people listen becausethey're also curious about deep dive
into this great art.
And that's just so cool.
It's like the.
And he was incredibly kind.
It's Paul Thuring.
I'll just say it.
He's so kind and just sweet.
Like you would expect someonewho created somebody somewhere to
be.
So democracy may have failedin other ways this year, but the
(26:14):
democratization of theInternet, one shining example there.
Let's do talk about shrinkingbecause I do want to talk about the
first six episodes or at leastthere's a.
There's a chunk of them I wantto talk about.
Yes.
Seven of ten, I think areavailable for season two.
And like I said, my thesis isfor this season is that it's quite
enjoyable, but it may not be agood show.
(26:34):
It.
It's.
A lot of it is very well done.
It's not to slag on productionor anything.
I just think that there's.
I just have some issues with it.
It's.
I'll say this and this, thismay sound like a slag, but it.
And maybe it is shrinking.
Would love to be somebodysomewhere, but it hues way more closely
to Modern Family.
(26:56):
Yeah, that's it.
And I think it's fair, isn't it?
I think when you have a showwith an A list producer like that,
an A list actors, all of theseingredients being pushed heavily
by a company as big as Apple,like, yeah, of course it, it has
to air on the side of more popstuff that makes sense.
(27:20):
It's.
It's struggling to balance its tone.
We're coming out of a showjust now talking about somebody somewhere
that can manage any tone, it seems.
But shrinking has struggled here.
I think Ted Lasso might be itsclosest analog for different reasons,
all kinds of reasons.
He did a good job of lettingviewers know of how serious something's
is right here.
(27:41):
Even if it's played forlaughs, something about it would
stick with you or maybe evenget caught in your throat as you
were laughing about it in the moment.
But those shifts in shrinkingaren't as smooth.
Yeah, I think maybe a closercomparison to me would be Scrubs
because of the way, and Ithink I talked about this a few episodes
ago, just the need for thereto be an issue every week.
(28:03):
Like on Scrubs, it's easybecause you are encountering new
patients all the time and newdiseases and there's always something
to learn.
And you have yet again, aprotege very eager for approval and
a gruff older guy kind ofwithholding it.
But it felt more organic onScrubs because the setup lent itself
(28:24):
to that.
Whereas shrinking, it's kindof like you're just throwing issues
at this upper middle classcollection of neighbors and co workers
that doesn't feel authentic.
A couple examples I can thinkof is so Alice and Lewis.
Alice is the daughter.
Lewis is the man who hit andkilled her mom in a drunk driving
(28:47):
wreck.
They open up to one another inan incredibly good moment.
Episode five or so, about themidpoint, it's kind of tender.
She forgives him.
It's something her mom would do.
It's very well done and itlasts the perfect amount of time.
To give you the sense thatthis is vital.
We're gonna do a little bit ofa longer scene here.
(29:09):
But then it's still jarringthat she's not just hanging with
Lewis and Brian in the nextepisode, but that she's disclosing
private information to Lewis.
Considering that she had abench date with Paul that day, her
official therapist, she couldhave just shown up and talked about
it there.
But she blows him off instead,sends Liz.
(29:31):
Totally different story.
And that just felt too sudden.
Yeah, I agree with that.
And there's this idea thatLewis's life is Requiem for a Dream.
Bleak, yet he's cutting up andgiggling and almost playing a happier
version of Roy Kent again.
And I did not think he wasgoing to be playing that kind of
character in this one.
(29:51):
That one scene.
He's too quick to be a cut up.
Is that the problem?
To be cut up?
Too quick to maybe even hangout with them?
I think he would want to hangout with them.
I just don't think that he would.
I don't believe that she wouldbe disclosing her private life yet.
Well, she is also a 17 yearold who, you know, may not.
That's what they do Right.
(30:12):
I would assume.
I think the series can be toononchalant with the actions of its
characters.
Sean and his dad is a good example.
So Sean's on rocky terms withhis dad.
You know, he's the man whokicked him out of the house when
his violence was escalating.
And all it takes is one talkwith Jimmy and Paul.
And Sean's dad's in thehospital too.
Make amends.
(30:32):
I get.
It's a comedy.
It's a 30 minute show.
You can't have that drag outover the course of five episodes.
But at the same time, they didkeep us waiting for Lewis to come
back over the course of fouror five episodes.
It's like there are scenes onthe cutting room floor or there needs
to be some days in betweenthese lightning strike moments.
I think that's maybe what itis, that we're only getting the lightning
(30:54):
strikes.
And unlike Scrubs where it's,you know, you're dropping in on important
days in their life or that'show it felt.
It wasn't just a day to day.
Whereas shrinking feels a bitmore like we're just plodding along
through normal weeks in richperson suburbia.
And here's what happens.
Yeah.
The show struggles to show howextreme these characters are, how
(31:17):
extreme their problems can bebecause it's wrapped in comedy.
I think it always has to be cutesy.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I didn't realize the depths ofSean's anger, honestly.
Even though it was prettyclear in season one.
I didn't realize how deep itwas until it looked as though he
might punch Jimmy.
And I was like, oh, I shouldhave seen that maybe in season one
because that, you know, youreally like this guy.
(31:38):
He's your therapist and you'reabout to punch him.
That's.
That's very relevatory.
You know, sometimes I thinkabout the great Futurama line where
I think it's in the.
Where Faria is trying to writethe musical for Leela and it's criticized
and they say you can't justhave your characters say what they
think and feel.
That makes me feel angry.
(32:00):
And I think about that with shrinking.
No.
1.
Not that we're the most Sharigroup here about how we're.
We're feeling.
We probably.
I certainly skew to the farother end of the spectrum.
But he's just a sherry groupof people.
Well, so Alice and Summer maynot be the best examples because
they're teens and that teenscan resolve conflict faster than
(32:22):
adults sometimes.
Depending.
But in two episodes with noScreen time together, they go from
fighting, hitting each otherin the boob to reconciliation.
I just think we need somescreen time before we can get there.
I felt that that was, like yousaid, it's teen stuff.
And I.
(32:42):
It gave me the good chuckleof, like, all the adults being, like,
summer's kind of talented withtheir Diss track on TikTok.
I thought that was good.
Is Gabby a good person?
She doesn't want to help herfledgling sister care for her mom.
And that part's only playedfor jokes.
It feels.
That feels off too.
Like, shouldn't we be pissedat Gabby?
(33:04):
It's not like she's acharacter from It's Always Sunny.
She's not like that.
Sort of bad.
But she's also not helpingwith her mom because she wasn't helped
out much when she was young.
What?
It's also her sister, likepaying a penance of sorts for being
a drug addict.
Okay, that's what I wasthinking, but again, I don't like
(33:27):
it.
You get this information, butI think it's so small and quick,
sometimes you forget it.
And that's maybe on me.
I thought that that was a gooddoling out of motivation that she.
I would imagine if you're in asituation where you want an addict
to change, even after they putin the work, it would be hard to
forget who they were.
Especially if it's your littlesister, if it's family, if you're.
(33:48):
I think you can love them andbe happy for them, but still be like,
shit, I had to take care ofyou and our mom and all of these
things.
You're going to put in alittle more time and I'm going to
live my.
Now that I finally have somefreedom, I'm going to live my life.
Because she also came out ofthat, the terrible marriage.
Right.
Okay.
So, yeah, no, she did.
And he was an addict, too.
Right?
Right.
But I'm.
(34:09):
Some of this is.
I'm here to defend Gabby.
So, yeah, you go.
Who's not?
I mean, I hated even askingthe question.
I was really stoked and stillof the belief to have Derek play
a larger role this season is agood idea.
Deft move by the show, I oftenthink, in season one.
What's up with this guy andhis sunshine demeanor?
What's his secret?
(34:30):
And even if he doesn't have asecret, he's still pleasant to have
on screen.
Giving him the plot of Lizthough, his wife, kissing another
man, I guess that's a right move.
But it feels unfortunatebecause I think Liz is kind of an
ass even without having kissedanother man.
No, Derek is a saint.
I'm talking about Ted McGinley.
Yeah.
(34:50):
Who?
Famous in the 80s for being aantagonist villain.
Asshole.
But here he's just kind of arich, retired young guy who's also
incredibly.
Kind and has great hair.
Oh, beautiful hair.
That man's hair.
See, the Liz situation issomething that I think is a symptom
of them just inventing problems.
(35:10):
I'm trying not to spoilanything in the next episode, but
obviously people.
People do things, and it'soften their actions are not in isolation.
Like, it doesn't just have todo with, like, how she feels about
this guy.
It's all these other things inher life.
They mind that in aninteresting way.
But it's also like, oh, thingsare going too good.
We need to throw a wrench infor the sake of story.
(35:31):
Yeah.
I do think they get it rightin having her admit in the very same
episode, the kiss.
Having admit that to herhusband Derek.
It happens in an instant.
And it doesn't belabor that.
You know, this idea that mightdislike Liz.
The baby storyline for Brianfeels too obvious.
His storyline is too obviousand too boring for this show.
(35:53):
And that feels very modern family.
Mm.
Yeah.
No reason to shit on a comedyfor two for its reality, but there's
no way in hell an Englishbulldog's gonna be in an animal shelter.
Sorry.
Like, you.
Like, you paid too much moneyfor that or like, oh, outside of
its carefully controlledconditions, it died.
(36:15):
Well, there's also.
We've had English bulldogsbefore, and my dad decided he didn't
want to put up with it, so hewould say, does he may want to, you
know, buy this puppy?
Sure.
Cheaper amount.
Most people would because it'sa little cheaper.
But they want the English bulldog.
Yeah.
I mean, no.
Nobody puts a bulldog in the shelter.
Let's go back to say nothing.
(36:35):
Shift gears here.
All episodes now on Hulu.
We're gonna talk about thefirst five or six of the nine, I
think.
Is it close to where we are?
Four, five or six?
Four.
And then we'll probably end updoing the back half of the series.
They pulled a Netflix here.
Simply dropped them onNovember 14th for.
Whatever damn reason you guysweren't having it.
(36:57):
I listened.
I heard Yalls opinions.
Not a fan.
Having watched more of it, Ithink this one could have benefited
from week by week too.
That's exactly what I wasgonna say.
Week to week's the maneuverfor this because I've changed my
stance heavily since lastWeek, which you goddamn better have.
Well, no, no, no.
I, like, I kind of had to bethe overly critical guy, I think,
(37:18):
last week just to havesomething a little to say.
You're lucky I didn't climbthrough my earbuds and just give
the old what for.
Well, I was going to say thatI changed my stance pretty drastically.
I like the show, don't get mewrong, first two episodes, but I
had qualms with it.
And this isn't just becauseAdam's here today and loves the show
(37:39):
thoroughly.
It's.
As the season continues, itstops moving about as much and it
really gets focused.
I would be curious how muchmore I would like it if it was week
to week.
I think it'd have more time tosit with stuff, if nothing else,
because just, you know, if itwas just the way we watch it, right?
It's like, oh, I want to knowwhat happens next.
(38:00):
This was maybe one of thecomplaints I said earlier that the
Northern Ireland subreddit hadissues with this, that it.
Was all dropped at once.
No, the issue was kind of whaty'all are talking about a bit with
the pacing.
Like, I do find myself wantingto hit next episode when one ends.
And they said that based onthe book, they had wished that, like,
(38:22):
an HBO would pick it upinstead and something like a Wire
treatment would do really wellfor the Troubles.
Instead of, like a politicalintrigue kind of.
You need something where it'slike, there are no winners in a way,
versus, like, they look prettycool while they're doing this stuff.
I suspect that's all going tocome crashing down at some point.
(38:43):
I mean, it definitely is, but some.
Of these episodes aredrastically different than the previous.
And it's odd.
I think sometimes I was soldon the intensity, the political drama,
the historical fiction, inthat it's a series and not a documentary.
Early it came off as a shotgun approach.
What kept it kind of kept someof the interesting characters on
(39:07):
screen less.
You know, I was thinking,okay, well, who's our primary character?
Should I care about?
Dolores, if she's to be themain focus and do I care about her
as much?
And then it was this curiousmethod of doling out bits and pieces
of Jean's story.
The mother of 10 who's takenaway at the middle of night.
(39:27):
That just felt like one moredangling thread.
Although now I'm starting tosee how that fits nicely.
But in the first one or twoepisodes, it was just another thread
of, I'm gonna throw all thisout here at you.
It is a Lot.
And I think maybe the.
I'll give one interaction withthe story of the Troubles that I've
had was going to the ImperialWar Museum in London and they had
(39:51):
this great, almost entirefloor exhibit dedicated to the Troubles,
which was kind of crazybecause the IRA actually bombed the
Imperial War Museum at one point.
So you're in a building thathas itself been a part of this.
And I thought, okay, I'mfinally gonna.
Here's like a toehold to startwrapping my head around this whole
thing.
And I go in and the entireexhibit is set up so that you have
(40:16):
two sides to every story.
You don't really learnanything except the.
You hate to use the word vibein this day and age.
But the vibe of the conflictmore than like, the actual, like,
who, what, when, where.
And I left even more confused,which was.
But having learned a lot, butstill being like, profoundly confused
(40:37):
about all of the details.
And I wonder if the way thisshow started isn't an attempt to
do the same thing.
Like, here's like a bunch of spaghetti.
We're throwing it at the wall.
Yeah.
It was complex.
It was confusing to the people involved.
Now, let's go ahead with the story.
The last quarter of the secondepisode, it started improving leaps
and bounds.
(40:57):
But that kind of bothers mebecause I think the worst thing I
can say to someone in our dayand age with our attention spans
dropping like Boeing jets, is,you got to stick around through second
episode.
Or.
I just hate being having tosay that.
But it does improve by reiningin some of these storylines.
I think the best episodes arethose where Dollar is.
(41:18):
Again, we're in spoilers.
Dollar has to take Joe to be killed.
Like, that's a singular story.
And she plans and executessome of her other ideas.
Gosh, I think I gotta step onmy own toes here.
I almost spoiled some thingsthat you guys haven't seen.
Tell me what happens inepisode four so I'll know my.
(41:39):
My line of demarcation episodefour is.
Where two of the.
The fellows, one particularlyyoung, are captured by the British
and turned.
And then they turn them in.
A great episode because we'rekind of focused on those two.
Well, young people.
Yeah.
One very much a kid, one ayoung man.
(41:59):
Right.
Very similar thing whereDolores has to take those two guys
away.
Yeah.
And that's.
Again, the episode is almostsingularly focused on that.
And I really can get into itand be swayed by the emotions that
are involved.
That's interesting.
And I don't disagree with you.
I thought that those Werereally good and they're tight and
(42:20):
focused.
But for me, especially the onewhere Jerry gets killed, it worked
really well for me.
Sorry, Joe.
Jerry Adams is very much aliveand he's in Ireland, and he is not.
A part of the ira.
He is not a part of the ira.
But when Joe gets killed, thatactually kind of worked because it
is weaving in and out of allthe other things they're doing, right?
(42:42):
Like getting explosives andthen like, somebody has shot the
guy that they end up executingJoe for.
And you don't kind of know.
And it clicks together.
And then.
Same thing for me, where Ifelt like the one with the two fellows,
it's more focused, but it does.
It is the same thing of kindof keeping me off balance because
Dolores is hardly in it.
It focuses on Brendan and the British.
(43:03):
And the Seamus and Beaky.
Seamus and Beaky.
Kevin, right?
Is that his name?
Kevin?
His real name?
Yeah, it focuses more on that.
And so I'm actually okay withit being focused on what it wants
to be focused on.
Because all these things arekind of stuck in each other, right?
And you start pulling on one,and they all start.
You pull on all of them.
This may be misapplying theterm, but it is a certain form of
(43:24):
guerilla warfare, right, whereit's like, they're not the British
in the palace barracks, right?
They are amongst the folks,the people, and they live their lives
amongst the people.
Not that the British don't getout, as we saw with the border guard
going to the club.
But you'll notice too, thatthose episodes three and four, and
(43:45):
also you'll see this in fiveand six, that they are less reliant
on the interview process.
And I think that helps.
Marian isn't part of theinterviews, at least not yet, which
makes leaves me on edgeanytime they're.
Any violence happening.
I keep thinking, oh, God, isthis why she's not in the interview
(44:07):
process?
Sort of annoying thing aboutit all being dropped at once is that
Marian is often mentioned inthe little episode descriptions.
And you can see them all at once.
Oh, yeah.
Guess she's still gonna bethere for.
You know, whenever the showcooks for me.
When I came to therealization, of course, too late,
(44:27):
as I tend to be beingignorant, that it.
In order to touch on a themewithin a theme that I think they're
trying to do here is you haveto keep dollar us at the center of
this particular version of the Troubles.
Marian as well, you get thissense that women are able to do things
just as even Better than themen in some cases.
(44:48):
They've always made these hugesacrifices that tend to get pushed
under the rug or not focusedon most cases.
And some of those middleepisodes, which we're starting to
get into.
Dollars and Marion make thesehorrific sacrifices that really get
really help, you see?
Oh, okay.
(45:09):
I see why that they should beprobably front and center.
Thoughts on the dark?
Anthony Boyle's character as Brendan.
Like him, he's so good actor.
The best performance.
He's.
Well, he.
Two things.
He really made me laugh when,like, maybe it's the older guy who
says it, but he's like, that'dbe our day.
He's like, get up some armedrobbery, maybe plant a bomb, then
(45:34):
try and get a pint.
Like, what a life.
I thought he was at his bestat the episode with the counterintelligence,
because.
With Seamus and Kevin havingto make those big decisions on his
own.
Yeah.
And he's like, he knows theyshould die, and he's trying to get
them back in.
And then when Jerry finallybrings him in, he doesn't, like,
(45:55):
overact it.
It's just you can see on hisface that he's hearing something
hard and he's crying a little,and that's it.
That's pretty much all he does.
And it was so good.
He's friendly with these guys.
One's a kid.
And he's also giving them his word.
And he just can't bear to say,okay, I kind of sort of had to lie
to you.
Yeah, I thought that was.
(46:16):
He's very fun to watch.
You get the sense that Jerrydid it through his intelligence.
As far as smarts is what I mean.
And his ingratiation with someof the older guys.
Absolutely.
He was.
He was clearly, like one oftheir best operatives.
Gave the opportunity for RoryKinnear to give that powerful line
of, we'll just let them kill themselves.
(46:38):
I like him.
Not the general, I mean, butRory Kinnear.
I really like what he's doing.
Really interesting to see.
I mean, I guess because thisis realistic.
Right.
But the counterintelligence work.
Not to go on like, a longdiatribe, but I read a really interesting
thing with one of the militaryprosecutors who got the guys from
the USS Cole bombing to talkversus what we did post 9 11.
(47:02):
You don't just punch people.
They have sitting down,drinking tea.
Do you want to see my gut?
Basically, building rapport ishow you get people to talk.
And that's what makes him.
Doing that in this makes himseem, like, almost more dangerous
because he's smart.
He knows how to get.
He's not going to beat it outof them.
(47:23):
He knows that doesn't work.
He's going to use whatevertactic he needs to.
We're going to end here.
Quite likely.
We'll wrap up our thoughts onsay Nothing next week.
It could happen that way.
I'm, like, excited.
Almost feels weird to sayabout a show like this, but it's
well made and I'm interestedin talking and thinking about it.
Well, it's wonderful atbuilding its tension and that makes
(47:45):
you want to see how it's resolved.
Right.
It is very good.
It is very good.
And I do like how, too, it'splaying with that dramatic irony.
Right.
Because we know.
Oh, gosh, I completely forgother name.
The poor woman at the centerof all this.
Dolorous.
And Brendan, we definitely.
Oh, no.
The woman who's taken Jean.
Thanks.
Sorry.
We know that Jean isn't goingto make it because we know her body
(48:07):
wasn't found until the 2000s.
We know the other two are gonna.
Right.
So it's playing with that.
I like that it's doing thatbecause it's keeping me interested
when, in a sense, I alreadyknow what's gonna happen.
Right.
Yeah.
Here's the ending.
Stick with us to see how itgot there.
Yeah.
Good stuff.
Yeah.
We're gonna end here.
You can follow us on social media.
Reach out, say hello.
(48:28):
Hey.
It works sometimes.
And follow the podcast in yourfavorite app to listen to, such as
that.
We'll be out every Tuesday morning.
Morning.
Unless we tell you we'retaking a break for a week.
For Adam and Donovan, I'mBlaine and we'll talk to you later.
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