February 11, 2025 • 42 mins
This week, it's a quick look at 'American Primeval' on Netflix and a close look into the fourth episode of Apple TV's 'Severance.'
To begin, Blaine gives some non-spoiler thoughts on the first three episodes of the Netflix Western 'American Primeval' and how it overcome an early issue (0:28). Then with Adam and Donovan, the three discuss what's on TV soon with 'The White Lotus' from HBO (6:01). Still keeping with non-spoilers, the hosts talk about what 'Severance' does right this season (8:12). In the spoiler section, it's a discussion of reality and simulation -- and a lot more -- with 'Severance' through its first four episodes (12:15). I mean, who knew a discussion about severed consciousness could lead into Freud’s theories on the uncanny? Yep, we’re going there!
As always, visit The Alabama Take with this link for more.
For more from Seddy Bimcoe, visit their site with this link.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey y'all, it's the podcasttaking it down.
We're the TV and streamingpodcast for the website the Alabama
Take.
And not only are we the TV andstreaming podcast for the working
class, we refuse to spoil athing until we give some general
non ruinous thoughts on theshow or movie we're covering for
the week.
This time, Adam Donovan and Iwill primarily focus on the ongoing
(00:22):
Apple TV plus series Severance.
It continues its second seasoneach Friday on that streamer.
Before I get them in here totalk about those kinds of things,
though, I've continuedAmerican Primeval on Netflix.
I gotta be honest, I can'tremember if I brought it up on the
podcast.
My mentioning of it may be newto you if you're a regular listener.
(00:43):
My first reaction, I think,was with the first and second episode.
I had some frustration withcharacter writing for Taylor Kitsch's
Isaac.
I feel like his developmentwas stymied by a lot of tropes.
But it starts to jump thatobstacle in the third episode, the
(01:04):
most recent I have watched.
It's always a joy to see ShayWiggum and the fact that he's in
a Western is a perfect fit for him.
It's a good cast, it's good acting.
I think the direction isreally stylized, sometimes to a fault,
but it's taking a segment ofhistory, even if it's fictionalizing
(01:27):
it, that we don't see as much.
Granted, it's a western, we'veall seen those, but I didn't know
much about the Utah War withthe Mormons and the natives and the
army and just settlers as well.
I think that can be interesting.
Betty Gilpin is in this showand she's doing a wonderful job.
(01:49):
And I also like when there areseveral plot lines going at once.
None of them are any worsethan the other.
They're all quite good and interesting.
So when you switch a bunch ofscenes like this, you're engaged
in what's going to happen tothis particular set of characters,
and you just know that all ofthem are snowballing into the same
(02:13):
point at the bottom of the hill.
If you're a fan of Kind of anew Western, Neo Western, I think
you'll get a lot of enjoymentout of this Netflix series.
Eight episodes, limited series.
It's directed by Peter Berg.
I can sometimes take or leavehis choices, but it's coalescing
(02:36):
into a pretty decent 45, 50minutes of television just to go
around.
Okay, I'm going to bring inAdam and Donovan and we're going
to talk Very briefly aboutwhat's coming on television.
Then we're going to get intonon spoilers for episode four, severance.
We'll take a little breakafter that, and we'll get into all
(02:58):
the details of episode 4.
Let's get them in.
Here they are.
First up, studio and touringmusician Adam Morrow.
Adam, you want to plug SisterRay Davies real quick?
I mean, we got.
(03:18):
I guess we have the singleout, right?
We could talk about that war machine.
The purpose of the system iswhat it does, which is the news that
we see every day now by the hour.
I'm gonna toot Adam's horn,because he won't, but it's good stuff.
And you might see him in yourneighborhood because he's.
(03:39):
There might be a littletraction to.
His music if I can encourage it.
So I got.
I told these guys this, but Igot nice ish headphones for Christmas,
and the song I used to trythem out for the first time was this
one.
And God damn, y'all, if youcan actually hear it.
That's smart.
It sounds very good.
Get y'all some good headphones.
Go look up Sister A.
Davies and just play it threetimes through.
(04:00):
I promise you, you will not regret.
It if you could do that on oneof the services that pays a higher
per stream.
If you're gonna stream itthree times, maybe don't use Spotify.
Oh, I'm an Apple guy.
I made the switch to Apple.
We don't have to get in theweeds here, but I could edit this.
If you want to just chat aboutApple, I'm cool with that.
Well, I mean, I think it'srelevant to people who would listen
(04:21):
to this.
Yeah.
This podcast.
How much better Apple sounds.
It does.
Yeah, thoroughly.
Have you uploaded the singleto pornhub yet?
I can't access it from Alabamato upload it.
Well, only if you.
Only if you're too cowardly toput in your id.
(04:42):
Could you imagine the denial of.
Sorry, my government id.
My driver's license wasuploaded to pornhub.
I was trying to put my band'ssong on there.
I read it for the articles.
Hand on the Bible, I swearthat's why.
People of Alabama, Are yougonna let.
(05:02):
Are you gonna let John Roberts out?
Porn you.
If you like Shoe Gaze with abit of a twist, can I say, is that
fair?
She goes with some twists.
Yeah, yeah.
If you like.
She goes with some twist.
I'd add multiple twists.
Give Sister Ray Davies a.
A listen.
I mean, and I'm serious, guys.
If Adam is absent this summer,or later from.
(05:24):
From our show.
It's.
He might be in your neighborhood.
Go see him and his.
His pal, his friend, his co musician.
Jamie.
Jamie Seago.
Good stuff.
And then, well, you've heardhim already.
It's film connoisseur, mediaspecialist, the smartest of the bunch.
It's Donovan Reinwalt.
Hey, Donovan.
(05:45):
Two of those three descriptorsjust go hand in hand with this pornhub
rant.
So, of course, we'recontinuing coverage on Severance
as it's released its fourthepisode of its second season on Friday.
Friday releases are where it'sat, guys.
Yeah, it just.
(06:05):
It works perfectly for us.
Yeah, well, that's what I wasgonna add.
We.
You know, we have White Lotusdebuting its first episode of their
third seasons in a.
In a week, give or take lessthan a week.
If you're listening to us onTuesday, and those are on Sundays.
Sunday television is wonderful.
There's a comfort to it.
(06:26):
It takes care of the dread ofMonday in a lot of cases.
But it gives our podcast thisappearance that we're always a week
behind the times.
And for those new to taking itdown, we record on Sunday, and we
release bright and early onTuesday mornings.
And we'll probably talk aboutthe White Lotus.
We're all three fans, I think, so.
(06:47):
Big fans, I would say.
Yeah.
And because it's an anthology,it's a lot of fun to unpack when
it begins again.
Yeah.
Have y'all seen the trailerfor the new White Lotus?
Yeah, I've yet to watch it.
I know it's out, but what canyou tell me?
There's a setup, there's apremise, but honestly, it's like
you guys have done enough,built up enough goodwill that you
(07:09):
could show me anything.
Yeah, that's the way I am alot with trailers.
If I know I'm gonna watch it,I just.
Just did.
Not right.
You know, they've already.
They passed the test because they.
They had a great first seasonand then a great second season.
So now I have full trust thatthey can do it again.
There was a sophomore slump there.
That's Mad Men rules right there.
(07:29):
Yeah.
Well, you do.
You do one, too.
Good.
I'm there with you the rest ofthe way.
Yeah.
I mean, hell, all you gotta dofor me is do it one season.
Pretty.
Pretty well when I'm on.
On board.
The only thing I know aboutthe White Lotus is that this season's
supposed to be a little more intense.
Brutal.
What's.
I've just seen that indifferent articles.
(07:51):
How.
How Is.
How is that possible afterlast season?
Maybe more murder?
I have no idea.
I would love if they justbrought Jennifer Coolidge back with
no explanation.
The gays.
They're trying to kill me.
Great line from season two.
I don't think we could add anymore to our severance discussion.
(08:12):
That's non spoiler.
Did.
Did y'all like this week's entry?
I liked that it gave me anopportunity to bring up pornhub.
Okay.
You're gonna.
You gonna tie that bow for usin the spoiler section?
Yeah, so.
So I will.
And this is non spoiler.
And I didn't accomplish it.
But I will tell you what itmade me do.
(08:32):
It made me sit down and look Freud's.
Freud's.
Freud's essay on the uncanny.
And try to.
Because that was what wasgoing in the back of my head.
Did you read it or just lookat this episode?
Freud's kind of dense.
I'm about three pages in.
Yeah.
His writing is short, but it'sso dense.
And a lot of it is likeFreud's psychoanalytic theory, too.
But I was watching, and Ithink this is where he.
(08:55):
He actually quotes.
I think it's Hoffman.
ETA Hoffman.
Oh, no.
Sorry.
E.
Gents.
And I think this actuallybears on this episode.
In telling a story, one of themost successful devices for easily
creating uncanny effects is toleave the reader in uncertainty whether
a particular figure in thestory is a human being or an automaton,
(09:16):
and to do it in such a waythat his attention is not directly
focused upon his uncertaintyso that the effect of the story is
heightened.
That's a lot to unpack.
We got some of that going onvery visually, literally, in this
story, in this episode, andthen also on almost like an emotional
level.
Good stuff.
Yeah, thanks for bringing it up.
(09:37):
All right, so I like thisepisode is what I'm saying.
I loved it.
And I think it.
It continues to do a thingthat we talked a bit about last week,
which is it's answeringquestions that seemed big and the
lesser shows would need tobuild a whole season around.
And the fact that they're justflying through some of this information
(10:00):
in episode four and three, youknow, all along the way, they're.
They're doling it out insteadof making us wait and.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's great.
It's funny that they.
We.
Maybe the three of us kind ofwould probably teeter on.
Let's do a deep dive.
Let's.
Let's really focus on a coupleof big questions and unravel them
(10:21):
in depth versus get around andanswer some of these questions and
quit stretching it thin.
It's such a balancing act, right?
Because it's almost here'swhere I'm really going to tie it
together.
It's almost like sex.
If it doesn't have an ending,then was it really worth it?
But also, do you want it to beall over right away?
(10:46):
That's actually prettyinsightful, donwan.
I mean I'm being silly, butalso like think about something that
I think we would agree is theantithesis of this Lost, which was
doesn't satisfy us.
Yeah, no.
What are the reasons?
I'll also say this is nonspoilerly too.
Just talking about what Iliked about this episode.
It wasn't perfect, but when itgot to the end I was like, I bet
(11:08):
Ben Stiller directed this.
Oh yeah, and by gosh, he did.
It looked good work, Mr.
Still.
You learned a thing or twoover the years.
That's absolutely one of thethings I want to touch on, which
I'll save for spoiler section.
I think we've reached that point.
We're going to stop brieflyhere so no one's ruined or spoiled
on coverage of Severance.
For the fourth episodeespecially, we'll do so with a podcast
(11:30):
promotion you'll enjoy fromour friends Tim and George at SETI
Bimco.
I've gotten to know them viaemail and they're super nice guys.
So uh, we'll be back afterabout a 30 second break.
I'm George O'Connor, the NewYork Times best selling author of
the Olympians and Asgardians.
I'm Tim Hamilton, cartoonistfor the New Yorker.
Here at SETI Bimco we watchmovies of dubious quality and fabricate
(11:55):
revenge sequels for them thatthey never had before.
We also have fun games such asGeorge's current currency.
Kerner diapers in 1960 cost $1.
What do you think they wouldcost today, Tim?
$4?
Wrong.
Seti Pimco Part 2 the Revenge Every.
Wednesday any place you listento PODC.
Okay, we're back.
If you haven't watchedSeverance and its fourth episode,
(12:18):
Woes Hollow is the name of this.
Am I right about Hollow?
Yeah, yeah, Holler.
Yeah, it's pronounced.
Well it would be this were setin the south.
We don't know where it's saidI guess, which is some of our discussion.
Easily be Tennessee I thinkthat was.
A live look at New Orleans a.
Few weeks ago that got me.
(12:42):
This episode was the one thatreally drove home an idea that you
don't give a corporationcontrol over your head.
Yeah.
Just this episode finally gotaround to saying this.
Well, no, no, yeah, I will saythat because we have all been in
agreement that this is veryanti capitalism, of course, but here
(13:04):
it was even more anti capitalcorporation, specifically within
the capitalist structure.
We're not sure that this isn'tall a dream or a hallucination, especially
since the previous episodeleft off at such a pivotal spot that
you kind of accept the writersare going to be willing to resume
right there.
I'm not going to say this is aperfect read, but I think it's kind
(13:28):
of acceptable to say thiscould be a.
A poke it.
Facebook and meta have thatmuch control and really get in your
mind and be virtual.
Oh, I see it.
Yeah.
You know, my.
My thought watching this islike, if anyone out there is truly
letting Elon Musk put anythingin their brain, you should watch
(13:48):
this episode.
Yeah.
Possibly with your lawyer present.
Blaine, are you entertainingthe idea that.
Do we want to go ahead andjust spoil the entire thing?
Yeah, we're in spoilers.
You can say whatever you want.
I think the question.
There's a.
There's a point that needs tobe made, like, is this a simulation
of some sort?
Or is this in a room somewhere?
(14:10):
Or are they all like.
Or are they actually out inthe woods?
I think it could be eitherone, and we'll probably get the answer
at some point, but for now,it's fun to speculate.
So you think it's simulation?
I don't know.
I haven't decided.
I haven't come down on what I think.
That seal was the polar bearon Lost.
(14:33):
Oh, my God.
I forgot about the seal.
There's so.
There's so much going on inthis episode.
Yeah.
There's two things that makeme think it's not a simulation.
And I am.
I'm fine to be wrong aboutthis as more information is given,
but one, when he says this isthe tallest waterfall in the world,
wouldn't you create a more.
(14:53):
Obviously, it doesn't take alot to impress the innies, but wouldn't
you still see a waterfall?
Wouldn't you still create alarger waterfall than that?
Did you guys point at the TVand yell fake news?
No, I actually wrote a letterto Apple.
This is not the largest.
This is misinformation.
(15:13):
I have done my research.
Two, if they were somewhere incontrolled space.
Lumen, controlled space.
Couldn't they have dealt withthe pivotal scene in a different
way?
Heli.
Being held underwater.
It seemed like they really hadto like radio back to home base.
Yeah, that's a good point.
(15:35):
You know, there's also thistheory floating about the Internet
that's even their home livesare somehow controlled or like manipulated.
Manipulated?
Yeah, like see that likethere's, there's some form of severing
going on even at.
At home or outside of the office.
I'm willing to believe thatthe, the totalitarian corporation
(15:58):
does in fact want to absorball aspects of its employees life.
Like I would be willing to believe.
That they live in company neighborhoods.
Right.
I mean they're all named afterlike different.
Mark definitely does.
Yeah, I guess the other oneswere not.
It's not confirmed.
Donova brought up in nonspoilers that it's directed by Ben
Stiller and just some.
(16:19):
A little checklist of thingsthat, that make it wonderful direction.
The soundscape of this episodedeserves some praise.
It's definitely the mostcinematic of any episode so far.
Those distant shots of themgoing to and fro in the, in this
wilderness and then rightafter the sex scene their faces are
(16:42):
cut in two.
It's a nice reminder of thatthese aren't just two personalities
of work versus home, but twoseparate people.
Probably as in Mark is aseparate person than he is when he's
at home and grieving over Gemma.
There was some stuff here andit's probably just because it's been
(17:04):
on the mind, but there were acouple shots there, especially like
when they really pulled out orthe director really pulled out.
Just choice of words.
Oh yeah.
Hey, that was good.
I knew that one.
The others were intentional.
Dude.
I almost thought like, wow,this is.
This is like on the edge ofsomething I'd see in like Twin Peaks,
the Return or something.
Yeah, I mean this was.
(17:24):
It was hard not to think oflynch this whole episode, really.
Yeah, I felt the same waymostly in a.
Like this is the first timeI've seen television try to do something
like this since Lynch.
Just embrace not only theweirdness but the darkness and the,
you know, finding the seal andthen being like, do we need to eat
(17:44):
this?
You know, all of this, likethe creepy story.
Yeah, creepy, Very creepy story.
And he did.
There were a few shots.
You're talking about the, thesex scene specifically where Irv
is also wandering through the woods.
There was one shot where italmost looked like their skin like
(18:05):
came in through the woods.
Yeah.
The way that they transitioned.
But I don't.
I meant to go back and watchit again.
Yeah, it looked like an oldschool like screen wipe kind of thing.
Yes.
The way that it faded in, but it.
It was almost like a creaturewas going.
And you're like, oh, that's.
That's just two humans, you know.
Yeah.
And it just such a strong.
(18:27):
Like that.
The evening scene, the nightscenes, they're diving into subconscious
kind of exploration.
And that.
That muddy water of that.
That screen wipe was so good.
Yeah.
So.
Yes.
So editing there as.
As well as some of the otherthings we've mentioned.
(18:47):
This episode felt like it.
Like mil check saying to them,you wanted to see the outdoors.
Well, here's.
Yeah, that's totally what itis, right?
Oh yeah.
It's almost a form of youasked for it, now you're gonna get
it.
Yeah.
You know, they keep showingthe picture of.
(19:08):
I guess it's.
It's the founder looking overthe hilltop down on the lakes.
And it looks a lot like Michigan.
Have you guys noticed this?
It looks like the Great Lakes.
That's a good thought.
I just keep getting stuck onlike it's so clearly.
What is it?
Wander in the sea of clouds or whatever.
You're right.
The.
That.
That's Wanderer above the seaof fog.
(19:30):
Yeah, something like that.
Boy, it looks.
It looks just like that.
It.
That was painted by a German, Frederick.
Is his name Frederick Dieteras well, or is it Dieter artist?
Yeah, it's something like that.
His first name is Frederick.
It's a.
It's a painting I've used in.
In class to study some things before.
(19:51):
Casper.
David Friedrich.
Okay.
It's Casper Friedrich.
I said Frederick.
Apologies.
You know, something that's ofnote is that when they're inside
the office, so much of it is white.
Except for maybe Irv'snightmare of the blackened hallway.
But everything outside here iswhite with all the snow.
Not just in this episode, butanytime they're outside, there's
(20:13):
so much snow that it's prettywhite all over.
That's a choice I haven'tthought about a whole lot, but it's
worth mentioning.
Well, it also restricts thetimeline so far to at best, what,
like a four to five month window?
Like, is it ever.
So do they ever.
The Audis, like, go to thebeach, you know, like what.
(20:33):
Yeah.
What do they do when?
In the summer months here.
I.
I like it for that reasonbecause it like, kind of destabilizes
the time where it's like, weknow more time should have passed
than that, yet it's justalways cold and dark, you know?
Yeah.
Or you're in the office wheretime doesn't really exist and time
doesn't really exist.
For the Ennis, it reminds meof white symbolism in religion being
(20:57):
about purity.
And there's so many religiouselements to the show, for sure.
Or at least quasi religious.
Like I mentioned last week,Scientology relationships.
They have some sort ofprojection or hologram of themselves
that help point the way throughout.
They're trying to get to Woes Hollow.
Did anyone else notice thatHeli's hologram is really putting
(21:21):
out some I'm dead, I'm dyingkind of vibes?
Yes.
It looks.
The other ones are kind oflike this is where I was started
thinking about the uncanny.
Because they say they'redoubles and you can't.
And they.
They're.
The way they're holding themselves.
They, they.
They are stiff and inhum.
You know, they're hu.
(21:41):
We recognize them as humanbeings, but they are stiff and inhuman.
Heli, the worst of them.
For.
For whatever reason, she givesthat stance, physical stance of referencing
the right movie there.
All bent and kind of ghostly.
Yeah.
Also rep.
Reminiscent of Irv seeing the.
(22:05):
The balding, tiny human woman.
She's the.
Not the bride of woe.
She's something of woe.
Scary stuff.
Whoever did the art for thisis great.
Like in the little sacred bookthey're reading, they have what's
clearly, you know, like a late19th century, middle to late 19th
century illustration of this.
(22:25):
And it looks really up.
Just like.
Just like, you know, like abook you'd find in a library as a
kid would.
Would scare you.
And then I like her in the true.
Because we know what's gonnahappen, but we all.
It's also great that she'sjust like working on her computer
while Irv's, like, staring.
It's fantastic.
It was spooky.
It was spooky.
I liked it.
It was good.
That's a compliment.
(22:46):
Britt Lauer had some supersubtle work happening here.
So.
And you.
I'm sure y'all noticed it.
You're gonna nod along to this.
There's an expression shemakes for a millisecond with Irving
where if you blink, you missed it.
Where she drops the facade for.
It's a little bit of anger.
Yeah.
And I love it when shows throwyou a scare when they're not a horror
(23:12):
like that.
That balding lady at the computer.
It's not quite a jolt, but itwas, like you said, spooky.
I like it when shows do this.
That's.
That's a.
Of course a Lynch perfected it.
Like, this isn't necessarily ahorror, but here's something that's
going to haunt You.
Well, it's very dreamlike.
(23:33):
Dream.
The idea of sleep has beentalked about a lot online since the
episode dropped.
And, I mean, Irv really usessleep in his subconscious to figure
it out.
Yep.
He's not willing to really layhis cards down, go for it with heli.
Until he has the dream.
(23:54):
And it.
It all seems to unlock.
Did he figure it out too easily?
I.
I wondered that.
I was like, you know, so there's.
A big theory online right nowthat we see him fall asleep in season
one, and he gets in troublefor it.
Oh, and they.
You know, these are people whohave never experienced sleep.
(24:16):
Right.
We don't actually know thatthey slept.
That night, by the way.
That's also my experience with life.
I rarely.
Some people think that he.
Audi.
Irv, was keeping himself awakeall night to be exhausted at work
to try to access thesubconscious that they would share.
(24:37):
And that's why he's able to.
He's found a way around thecommunication barrier between two.
Like, the chip doesn't go deepenough to impact dreams, which seems.
I mean, don't you dream aboutwork sometimes?
Yeah, I do by default.
Do they not all do this?
It's.
Yeah, it's come up before.
(24:57):
And he.
I think he got in a fair bitof trouble in season one.
Right.
Personally, they were prettystern about.
There's no sleeping at work.
Yes.
Most jobs are.
Sure.
But if it.
If it's gonna upset yoursecurity measures even more.
So the connection that she'san Egan is the one I was questioning.
(25:19):
Is that a little too easy forhim to have figured out?
Not that she is her Audi now,that they all should be questioning
that story she told them about.
Right.
The gardener boy that stuckwith him.
What was he wearing?
I thought that that was areally cleverly handled way for him
to say, like, who would havethe power to do this?
Yeah, it was.
(25:39):
Isn't his Audi a formermilitary, a Navy guy?
Possibly.
People are.
Again, not to be Mr.
Reddit over here, but peopleare pointing out, you know, he calls
her a mole immediately.
He.
Some of the tactics that he'susing, even the fact that he.
If we want to be grim aboutit, he waterboards her to get a confession
out of her.
He's very willing to.
(26:00):
Yeah, yeah.
All of his.
You know, he tries to.
He's using tactics that are,like, by the book to try to get a
confession out of her.
I'm 100 for Irv's actions here.
I did think that the.
There was a whiplash sort of zoom.
The show I don't think hasever used, which really helped with
the intensity of it of these moments.
(26:23):
I loved that I was like, whoa,that was a very quick camera movement.
How evil bad is Helena, right?
What does it say about herthat she's willing to sleep with
Mark, although she's not herany and hasn't been of late.
Is that a form of assault?
(26:43):
Sexual assault or rape?
I mean, the levels of consentthat are in question here.
Yeah, it's, it's pretty wild, Blaine.
But like what you said, if inreal life I were to trick somebody
else into thinking I wassomeone else so that they would have
sex with me, that would be a crime.
Like I could go to jail fordoing that.
Oh, that's a crime.
(27:06):
Maybe not in Alabama.
I'm actually not a millionaire.
And.
But you know, like at the, atthe beginning it's a betray or like,
at the very least it's a betrayal.
And does it like spiral out toeven work?
You know, just because.
And it helps to ask the greatquestion, like, who are these people?
Oh yeah.
Are they people?
Well, and you, if you wantedto be generous with her, you, you
(27:26):
would say that when she isshown watching footage of herself
and she sees that this kissthat she shares with Mark, you know,
as their enies, she is jealousof the woman that she sees because
she's been obviously in thishighly structured world where, I
mean, if it, if it ended upcoming out that don't they say that
(27:48):
she's like pure Egan or theysay something like that.
That kind of makes it sound alittle incesty.
You're literally, genetically.
It's like a Targaryen thing.
Like you really have like nochoice but to like, you're.
You're going to be the perfectcorporate woman.
And she sees this pretty freeany person and she's like, I want
(28:08):
some of that.
That would be the generousread that still has a lot of complex
consent questions.
But that's like as much as youcan give her, I think.
Yeah, I still think it's.
It may be a bit darker thanthat with some.
I mean, Donovan made a pullout joke earlier.
I mean, what are the chancesthat she doesn't get pregnant?
Are like, not good, right?
(28:30):
Yeah, I thought that wasinteresting too, since Adam, you
just raised.
Was it last week, like, what does.
What happens if you'repregnant, which is.
They talk about in season oneto some degree with that, the woman,
they go to the birthing thingand the woman has been severed and
then she doesn't remembermeeting them.
So when you think about what heli.
(28:51):
Any heli has experiencedlately, it is waking up in this room
full of people and giving thatspeech and then being tackled off
stage.
Right.
Essentially.
And then she goes from thatmoment of consciousness to underwater
and icy water.
Damn.
So like, if you're the womanat the birthing center, if you have
(29:12):
three kids, does she justsuddenly come to consciousness in
childbirth and then goes awayand then comes back and is in.
I mean, what.
What?
Hell, talk about a nightmare.
Yeah, it is nightmare.
If you talk about shows thatare, you know, lynch is not horror,
but it is horror.
Oh, yeah.
Like Helly's last 20 minutesare pure horror.
(29:33):
You use the phrase pure Egan.
I think there were two yearsof my life where I was pure Egans
with this.
Yeah.
Lucid joke there.
This episode was bizarrelydifferent in such good ways.
It kind of had a slower pace.
Yes, it did.
Which made that last six toeight minutes all the more shocking.
(29:55):
I almost completely forgotMark was getting reintegrated from
the previous episode's ending.
It kind of made me just forgetall about that.
In a good way.
No, I.
I agree.
The pacing was very deliberateuntil it was very fast, which was
also deliberate.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I think now you haveevery reason to question talking
(30:16):
about Mark and hisreintegration, the levels of awareness
that all of them have.
Yeah.
Because Mark is already slipping.
Right.
And now we know that Heli wasnot heli.
So that she was under question.
I think we have reason tomaybe question Irv.
That he's not fully severed anymore.
That's right.
(30:38):
He is at least able to.
As you rightly pointed out,his subconscious when he's outside
seems to be able to accessthings and possibly when he's on
the inside too.
Right.
Because he's painting.
He's painting the.
The hallway.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's perfectly.
With the militaryconditioning, if that's his previous
employer.
Well, and remember the.
(30:59):
The woman who is doing the.
We praise the procedure that'shappening for Mark last episode.
She says, I've gotten bettersince Petey.
Yeah.
Who did she get better with?
Could it have been Irv?
Good question.
I hope it's not the last wesee of Irv.
I don't think it would be.
There's no way they're gonnawaste him.
(31:19):
There's no way.
He's so good, isn't he?
But he's my favorite character.
The smirk.
Or when he's like, we have toeat the seal.
Like, that was smack.
That was so.
That was so good.
Yeah, it was so good.
Who.
Who comes upon a dead animalafter a couple hours in the woods
and said, well, we gotta eatthis one.
I love that whole scenebecause, like, there was like the
(31:41):
weird Frisian of them beinglike, maybe this is just what dead
things look like.
Because it just constantly.
Like what, like, what is theirlevel of like, human experience that
they bring with them?
And then him just instantlybeing like, we're starving to death,
we have to eat the seal.
I wanted to know what his.
I wanted to know what his plan was.
That was a great one.
It's like 1:30 and theyprobably all ate breakfast.
(32:02):
Yeah, yeah.
But Dylan had some classicones in this episode too.
He was very funny.
Hell of a dichotomy, that.
Kyrie.
Keirigan.
Keir.
Thank you.
Keir Egan is all about nature.
And yet they're deep in.
In an office without anyconnection to nature.
No windows, no plants that Ihave seen.
(32:25):
Only the goats in the grass.
That's right.
That one area.
That's right.
As far as I can recall.
So Milchick mentions removinga glass Glasgow block.
I think that was seen quicklyin episode one of this season.
Was it?
Yeah.
There's like a screenshot withother names on those old ass Apple
(32:48):
style computers that they have.
And.
And their names are Beehive,Elephant, Freeze Frame.
There's some more glass globeblocks on there.
It seems like those are thingsthey could all do to the severed
employees.
The Glasgow thing is what he'ssaying when he.
When Helly.
When they're negotiating.
(33:09):
Yeah.
Well, talking about the themeof nature, it's also been pointed
out that we know that Mark'smom's name is Fern Scout.
Wait, what?
Oh, her first name is Fern.
Fern Scout.
Yep.
Huh.
We do know that.
How do we know that?
It's in some previous episode.
It's come up.
Okay.
(33:30):
Makes you wonder about Dieterspilling his seed into nature, huh?
Oh, Deeter, man, that was hilarious.
Hey, I'm of the notion thatLumen's a company made to perfect
AI so that it can replicate ahuman and bring this consciousness
(33:51):
that they've saved of Kir Egan.
Yeah.
Like put him in a body, bringhim back to life.
I think we might have saidthat off mic last week.
Is.
Is Mark and Egan?
He could be.
Yeah.
He.
You'd have to think that heprobably is at this point because
the pregnancy plot line seemsto be the direction they're pointing.
(34:13):
We'll see.
Yeah.
You almost wonder if.
Right.
Like, there's a economy.
Right.
Maybe you've got likeTechnology guy.
And then, you know, hisbrother, who's all nature.
You.
You.
I almost wonder if it's like,oh, wait, are they maybe being synthesized
in some, like, horrific way?
Right.
Like, there's a bioengineeringproject and whatever.
(34:34):
Pure.
Pure speculation.
I mean, it would.
It would say that maybe you could.
You know, some people thinkthat the team is creating consciousness
and that they need Markbecause he.
The.
The numbers.
Having emotions and knowinghow to sort them in a certain way.
He's so good at it.
Yeah.
So it's.
Is it that they're creatinghis wife?
(34:57):
Right.
As a practice run?
I think that was a practice run.
Yeah.
And that they kidnapped herand have been holding her in some
way, and maybe, like, at somepoint, the body is not a thing that
needs to exist anymore, andyou have this consciousness that
you can then reintegrate.
That's right.
That's what I think.
Yeah.
(35:18):
The last time I saw such astrict bifurcation between technology
and nature is Train Dreamsfrom Dennis Johnson's novella Tell
Me More.
Well, it's right there in the title.
Train Dreams.
And talk about Train Dreams to me.
Yeah.
Well, that.
That movie is.
(35:38):
Is made now.
Speaking of a being highly praised.
Yes.
It just needs someone to pickit up, and I don't know if that's
happened yet.
Rumored to be Netflix, and if so.
Man, Focus Features or something.
Yeah, but I don't know.
I haven't caught up.
I haven't been keeping up withthat news, so.
(36:00):
Have y'all seen the title ofthe next episode?
It's.
Yes.
Thieving Nanny.
Which we were lucky.
Which we were.
You know, we weren't luckyenough to get that the next morning.
Mr.
Milchek, when he finished thechapter, said we might be lucky enough
to get to it the next morning.
Oh, that's right.
I don't want to get too intoit, but it's.
(36:22):
Thinking about the uncannymade me think about Milchek and Huang
too.
The way they.
They also act in ways thatmakes you unsure if they're human
or automaton.
Yes, they do.
At first, I think it's like.
It's like, oh, maybe they'resevered or something.
But just why?
I'm like, maybe there'ssomething else going on.
I agree.
There's something there thatseems like a threat or a disruption
(36:45):
to the ego or the sense ofself that are other severed people
don't necessarily experience.
Anyway, I found it.
I found this episode to be onethat tied things together thematically
without explicitly saying,like, hey, do you notice this connection.
Well, some people have pointedout the.
(37:07):
You're talking about theuncanniness that the first crew.
Episode one, the replacement crew.
They talk about thedifferences in the facilities.
Yeah, yeah.
And don't they say that theyhave like animatronic giggins in
one of them?
So is that what we're dealingwith here?
Is that what the.
(37:27):
They repurpose some of them tobe the four team members?
Maybe.
I don't know.
One guy does remind.
He's like.
It's just like a mop handletie with something tied to it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Italian guy.
Something.
Yeah.
Shouldn't be overlooked thatthis show manages to remain very
funny.
Well.
Oh, yeah.
(37:48):
Something David lynch was alsovery good at.
Totally.
Yeah.
I love it when.
When Dylan makes one of hisridiculous quips.
I'm a.
I'm a big Dylan fan.
Yeah.
And they're so upset about the marshmallows.
Yes.
It reminds us of the child.
Childlike quality you talkedabout them having.
(38:08):
We don't get s'mores.
Do you remember, like in thefirst episode with the replacement
team.
I think it's with thereplacement team.
Right into that, like,childlike quality.
They're like, what do youthink sky looks like?
Yeah.
Or.
And then even in this one,they're like, I knew it wouldn't
be ceiling.
You know?
You know, it's like, what kindof like.
Like obviously they can read,speak, they know numbers.
(38:29):
Like they can do stuff.
But like, what.
What are they.
What are they missing?
Yeah.
Dylan was all about maybe awhole person.
Yeah.
In what ways are.
Are they.
Their state, a threat to aunified ego?
You probably want to add inthat Dylan is the most childlike
Audi.
You know, he's.
Yeah.
He's got that childlike quality.
(38:49):
Just sitting on the couch andnot understanding how to bake cookies
from this.
It's a tube of cookies.
It's a tube.
Yeah.
Which.
Which reminds me, I'm about togo eat a tube because junkies for
Super Bowl.
No, I'm not.
Maybe a snack.
For sure.
Do you.
Any final thoughts aboutepisode four or severance in general?
(39:11):
I mean, I feel like they'vejust set the table so well.
You know, I said at the top.
They keep answering questions.
We get.
We get the answer to heli already.
A lesser show would have madethat the entire season.
Yep.
And just more and morequestions come out every time.
And it's.
It's like you.
The classic.
Like you're seeing the tip ofthe iceberg, you know, and you.
(39:33):
You know it's all there and you.
A show can feel like it hasthe mythology of like the book that's
being read.
You know, like we don't haveto hear the rest of those stories,
but we feel like they'reinforming what's happening.
I think that's the mark oflike a really great piece of art,
piece of film, piece of tv.
Well, Apple's done the smartthing by hiring really good directors
(39:54):
and writers.
I think that's where Netflixfalters so much.
They get the actors, but theydon't get the good writing or the
good direction.
You got.
You got to get it all together.
You gotta have once they reallike I read sort of unrelated but
I think it was an N plus one.
A somewhat interestinganalysis that like once Netflix put
(40:17):
Kevin Spacey and I forget whoit was in House of Cards.
Yes.
And realized that people werewatching it based off of that than
anything else.
They were like, we'll just getlike we've, we've got the formula.
We'll get some big names in here.
We don't have to spend moneyon anything else.
That's why I'm so anti algorithm.
I don't want the same thing infive minutes or tomorrow or next
(40:40):
week.
It's not going to find thingsI didn't know that I wanted.
Yeah, exactly.
That's why I all but quitsocial media almost.
I found this episode to justbe a really satisfying one.
I think.
Adam mentioning how they setthe table.
I think that's part of whatworks for me with the, the quote
unquote mysteries.
I don't feel like I'm beingjerked around.
(41:01):
It feels like they're, they'reasking questions about the same stuff
they've been asking questions about.
So it really does feel likeit's going somewhere.
Well, that's it for today this week.
I just mentioned social media.
We're there, but the best wayto reach us is to send nudes via.
Email in the mail.
Oh, you want old school.
(41:22):
I want them printed out on a Polaroid.
Black and white's fine.
Doesn't have to be of yourself.
Could be your cat not wearing clothes.
As they're want to do.
I'm suddenly reminded of Dylansaying we live in a saloon now.
If you want to have aconversation a little more private,
(41:43):
email us@thealabamatakegmail.com.
i know that's not taking it down.
That's our home site.
Or if you want to have a openconversation, then just comment on
the Alabama take site.
We, we see those we respond,we'll be back next Tuesday and you'll
have things you'll want totalk about.
(42:03):
And we will, too.
Adam and I might be headedinto the direction of talking about
MO on Netflix.
Yeah, we were just hating onNetflix, but Mo, pretty good program.
It'll be a couple weeks beforewe can get around to.
I feel like we got to get toseason two.
Season two?
Yeah.
Because it's, it's much buzzedabout right now.
Right.
It was a January release.
(42:24):
But we'll get to Mo if youwant to play along.
If you haven't seen mo, it'son netflix, 25 minute episodes.
Quick hitters.
Quick hitters.
I'm three or four episodes deep.
We'll see.
I won't make any judgments yet.
We'll talk to everybody next Tuesday.
Thanks for listening.
(42:46):
Sometime with your.
Hey y'all, it's the podcasttaking it down.
We're the TV and streamingpodcast for the website the Alabama
Take.
And not only are we the TV andstreaming podcast for the working
class, we refuse to spoil athing until we give some general
non ruinous thoughts on theshow or movie we're covering for
the week.
This time, Adam Donovan and Iwill primarily focus on the ongoing
(00:22):
Apple TV plus series Severance.
It continues its second seasoneach Friday on that streamer.
Before I get them in here totalk about those kinds of things,
though, I've continuedAmerican Primeval on Netflix.
I gotta be honest, I can'tremember if I brought it up on the
podcast.
My mentioning of it may be newto you if you're a regular listener.
(00:43):
My first reaction, I think,was with the first and second episode.
I had some frustration withcharacter writing for Taylor Kitsch's
Isaac.
I feel like his developmentwas stymied by a lot of tropes.
But it starts to jump thatobstacle in the third episode, the
(01:04):
most recent I have watched.
It's always a joy to see ShayWiggum and the fact that he's in
a Western is a perfect fit for him.
It's a good cast, it's good acting.
I think the direction isreally stylized, sometimes to a fault,
but it's taking a segment ofhistory, even if it's fictionalizing
(01:27):
it, that we don't see as much.
Granted, it's a western, we'veall seen those, but I didn't know
much about the Utah War withthe Mormons and the natives and the
army and just settlers as well.
I think that can be interesting.
Betty Gilpin is in this showand she's doing a wonderful job.
(01:49):
And I also like when there areseveral plot lines going at once.
None of them are any worsethan the other.
They're all quite good and interesting.
So when you switch a bunch ofscenes like this, you're engaged
in what's going to happen tothis particular set of characters,
and you just know that all ofthem are snowballing into the same
(02:13):
point at the bottom of the hill.
If you're a fan of Kind of anew Western, Neo Western, I think
you'll get a lot of enjoymentout of this Netflix series.
Eight episodes, limited series.
It's directed by Peter Berg.
I can sometimes take or leavehis choices, but it's coalescing
(02:36):
into a pretty decent 45, 50minutes of television just to go
around.
Okay, I'm going to bring inAdam and Donovan and we're going
to talk Very briefly aboutwhat's coming on television.
Then we're going to get intonon spoilers for episode four, severance.
We'll take a little breakafter that, and we'll get into all
(02:58):
the details of episode 4.
Let's get them in.
Here they are.
First up, studio and touringmusician Adam Morrow.
Adam, you want to plug SisterRay Davies real quick?
I mean, we got.
(03:18):
I guess we have the singleout, right?
We could talk about that war machine.
The purpose of the system iswhat it does, which is the news that
we see every day now by the hour.
I'm gonna toot Adam's horn,because he won't, but it's good stuff.
And you might see him in yourneighborhood because he's.
(03:39):
There might be a littletraction to.
His music if I can encourage it.
So I got.
I told these guys this, but Igot nice ish headphones for Christmas,
and the song I used to trythem out for the first time was this
one.
And God damn, y'all, if youcan actually hear it.
That's smart.
It sounds very good.
Get y'all some good headphones.
Go look up Sister A.
Davies and just play it threetimes through.
(04:00):
I promise you, you will not regret.
It if you could do that on oneof the services that pays a higher
per stream.
If you're gonna stream itthree times, maybe don't use Spotify.
Oh, I'm an Apple guy.
I made the switch to Apple.
We don't have to get in theweeds here, but I could edit this.
If you want to just chat aboutApple, I'm cool with that.
Well, I mean, I think it'srelevant to people who would listen
(04:21):
to this.
Yeah.
This podcast.
How much better Apple sounds.
It does.
Yeah, thoroughly.
Have you uploaded the singleto pornhub yet?
I can't access it from Alabamato upload it.
Well, only if you.
Only if you're too cowardly toput in your id.
(04:42):
Could you imagine the denial of.
Sorry, my government id.
My driver's license wasuploaded to pornhub.
I was trying to put my band'ssong on there.
I read it for the articles.
Hand on the Bible, I swearthat's why.
People of Alabama, Are yougonna let.
(05:02):
Are you gonna let John Roberts out?
Porn you.
If you like Shoe Gaze with abit of a twist, can I say, is that
fair?
She goes with some twists.
Yeah, yeah.
If you like.
She goes with some twist.
I'd add multiple twists.
Give Sister Ray Davies a.
A listen.
I mean, and I'm serious, guys.
If Adam is absent this summer,or later from.
(05:24):
From our show.
It's.
He might be in your neighborhood.
Go see him and his.
His pal, his friend, his co musician.
Jamie.
Jamie Seago.
Good stuff.
And then, well, you've heardhim already.
It's film connoisseur, mediaspecialist, the smartest of the bunch.
It's Donovan Reinwalt.
Hey, Donovan.
(05:45):
Two of those three descriptorsjust go hand in hand with this pornhub
rant.
So, of course, we'recontinuing coverage on Severance
as it's released its fourthepisode of its second season on Friday.
Friday releases are where it'sat, guys.
Yeah, it just.
(06:05):
It works perfectly for us.
Yeah, well, that's what I wasgonna add.
We.
You know, we have White Lotusdebuting its first episode of their
third seasons in a.
In a week, give or take lessthan a week.
If you're listening to us onTuesday, and those are on Sundays.
Sunday television is wonderful.
There's a comfort to it.
(06:26):
It takes care of the dread ofMonday in a lot of cases.
But it gives our podcast thisappearance that we're always a week
behind the times.
And for those new to taking itdown, we record on Sunday, and we
release bright and early onTuesday mornings.
And we'll probably talk aboutthe White Lotus.
We're all three fans, I think, so.
(06:47):
Big fans, I would say.
Yeah.
And because it's an anthology,it's a lot of fun to unpack when
it begins again.
Yeah.
Have y'all seen the trailerfor the new White Lotus?
Yeah, I've yet to watch it.
I know it's out, but what canyou tell me?
There's a setup, there's apremise, but honestly, it's like
you guys have done enough,built up enough goodwill that you
(07:09):
could show me anything.
Yeah, that's the way I am alot with trailers.
If I know I'm gonna watch it,I just.
Just did.
Not right.
You know, they've already.
They passed the test because they.
They had a great first seasonand then a great second season.
So now I have full trust thatthey can do it again.
There was a sophomore slump there.
That's Mad Men rules right there.
(07:29):
Yeah.
Well, you do.
You do one, too.
Good.
I'm there with you the rest ofthe way.
Yeah.
I mean, hell, all you gotta dofor me is do it one season.
Pretty.
Pretty well when I'm on.
On board.
The only thing I know aboutthe White Lotus is that this season's
supposed to be a little more intense.
Brutal.
What's.
I've just seen that indifferent articles.
(07:51):
How.
How Is.
How is that possible afterlast season?
Maybe more murder?
I have no idea.
I would love if they justbrought Jennifer Coolidge back with
no explanation.
The gays.
They're trying to kill me.
Great line from season two.
I don't think we could add anymore to our severance discussion.
(08:12):
That's non spoiler.
Did.
Did y'all like this week's entry?
I liked that it gave me anopportunity to bring up pornhub.
Okay.
You're gonna.
You gonna tie that bow for usin the spoiler section?
Yeah, so.
So I will.
And this is non spoiler.
And I didn't accomplish it.
But I will tell you what itmade me do.
(08:32):
It made me sit down and look Freud's.
Freud's.
Freud's essay on the uncanny.
And try to.
Because that was what wasgoing in the back of my head.
Did you read it or just lookat this episode?
Freud's kind of dense.
I'm about three pages in.
Yeah.
His writing is short, but it'sso dense.
And a lot of it is likeFreud's psychoanalytic theory, too.
But I was watching, and Ithink this is where he.
(08:55):
He actually quotes.
I think it's Hoffman.
ETA Hoffman.
Oh, no.
Sorry.
E.
Gents.
And I think this actuallybears on this episode.
In telling a story, one of themost successful devices for easily
creating uncanny effects is toleave the reader in uncertainty whether
a particular figure in thestory is a human being or an automaton,
(09:16):
and to do it in such a waythat his attention is not directly
focused upon his uncertaintyso that the effect of the story is
heightened.
That's a lot to unpack.
We got some of that going onvery visually, literally, in this
story, in this episode, andthen also on almost like an emotional
level.
Good stuff.
Yeah, thanks for bringing it up.
(09:37):
All right, so I like thisepisode is what I'm saying.
I loved it.
And I think it.
It continues to do a thingthat we talked a bit about last week,
which is it's answeringquestions that seemed big and the
lesser shows would need tobuild a whole season around.
And the fact that they're justflying through some of this information
(10:00):
in episode four and three, youknow, all along the way, they're.
They're doling it out insteadof making us wait and.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's great.
It's funny that they.
We.
Maybe the three of us kind ofwould probably teeter on.
Let's do a deep dive.
Let's.
Let's really focus on a coupleof big questions and unravel them
(10:21):
in depth versus get around andanswer some of these questions and
quit stretching it thin.
It's such a balancing act, right?
Because it's almost here'swhere I'm really going to tie it
together.
It's almost like sex.
If it doesn't have an ending,then was it really worth it?
But also, do you want it to beall over right away?
(10:46):
That's actually prettyinsightful, donwan.
I mean I'm being silly, butalso like think about something that
I think we would agree is theantithesis of this Lost, which was
doesn't satisfy us.
Yeah, no.
What are the reasons?
I'll also say this is nonspoilerly too.
Just talking about what Iliked about this episode.
It wasn't perfect, but when itgot to the end I was like, I bet
(11:08):
Ben Stiller directed this.
Oh yeah, and by gosh, he did.
It looked good work, Mr.
Still.
You learned a thing or twoover the years.
That's absolutely one of thethings I want to touch on, which
I'll save for spoiler section.
I think we've reached that point.
We're going to stop brieflyhere so no one's ruined or spoiled
on coverage of Severance.
For the fourth episodeespecially, we'll do so with a podcast
(11:30):
promotion you'll enjoy fromour friends Tim and George at SETI
Bimco.
I've gotten to know them viaemail and they're super nice guys.
So uh, we'll be back afterabout a 30 second break.
I'm George O'Connor, the NewYork Times best selling author of
the Olympians and Asgardians.
I'm Tim Hamilton, cartoonistfor the New Yorker.
Here at SETI Bimco we watchmovies of dubious quality and fabricate
(11:55):
revenge sequels for them thatthey never had before.
We also have fun games such asGeorge's current currency.
Kerner diapers in 1960 cost $1.
What do you think they wouldcost today, Tim?
$4?
Wrong.
Seti Pimco Part 2 the Revenge Every.
Wednesday any place you listento PODC.
Okay, we're back.
If you haven't watchedSeverance and its fourth episode,
(12:18):
Woes Hollow is the name of this.
Am I right about Hollow?
Yeah, yeah, Holler.
Yeah, it's pronounced.
Well it would be this were setin the south.
We don't know where it's saidI guess, which is some of our discussion.
Easily be Tennessee I thinkthat was.
A live look at New Orleans a.
Few weeks ago that got me.
(12:42):
This episode was the one thatreally drove home an idea that you
don't give a corporationcontrol over your head.
Yeah.
Just this episode finally gotaround to saying this.
Well, no, no, yeah, I will saythat because we have all been in
agreement that this is veryanti capitalism, of course, but here
(13:04):
it was even more anti capitalcorporation, specifically within
the capitalist structure.
We're not sure that this isn'tall a dream or a hallucination, especially
since the previous episodeleft off at such a pivotal spot that
you kind of accept the writersare going to be willing to resume
right there.
I'm not going to say this is aperfect read, but I think it's kind
(13:28):
of acceptable to say thiscould be a.
A poke it.
Facebook and meta have thatmuch control and really get in your
mind and be virtual.
Oh, I see it.
Yeah.
You know, my.
My thought watching this islike, if anyone out there is truly
letting Elon Musk put anythingin their brain, you should watch
(13:48):
this episode.
Yeah.
Possibly with your lawyer present.
Blaine, are you entertainingthe idea that.
Do we want to go ahead andjust spoil the entire thing?
Yeah, we're in spoilers.
You can say whatever you want.
I think the question.
There's a.
There's a point that needs tobe made, like, is this a simulation
of some sort?
Or is this in a room somewhere?
(14:10):
Or are they all like.
Or are they actually out inthe woods?
I think it could be eitherone, and we'll probably get the answer
at some point, but for now,it's fun to speculate.
So you think it's simulation?
I don't know.
I haven't decided.
I haven't come down on what I think.
That seal was the polar bearon Lost.
(14:33):
Oh, my God.
I forgot about the seal.
There's so.
There's so much going on inthis episode.
Yeah.
There's two things that makeme think it's not a simulation.
And I am.
I'm fine to be wrong aboutthis as more information is given,
but one, when he says this isthe tallest waterfall in the world,
wouldn't you create a more.
(14:53):
Obviously, it doesn't take alot to impress the innies, but wouldn't
you still see a waterfall?
Wouldn't you still create alarger waterfall than that?
Did you guys point at the TVand yell fake news?
No, I actually wrote a letterto Apple.
This is not the largest.
This is misinformation.
(15:13):
I have done my research.
Two, if they were somewhere incontrolled space.
Lumen, controlled space.
Couldn't they have dealt withthe pivotal scene in a different
way?
Heli.
Being held underwater.
It seemed like they really hadto like radio back to home base.
Yeah, that's a good point.
(15:35):
You know, there's also thistheory floating about the Internet
that's even their home livesare somehow controlled or like manipulated.
Manipulated?
Yeah, like see that likethere's, there's some form of severing
going on even at.
At home or outside of the office.
I'm willing to believe thatthe, the totalitarian corporation
(15:58):
does in fact want to absorball aspects of its employees life.
Like I would be willing to believe.
That they live in company neighborhoods.
Right.
I mean they're all named afterlike different.
Mark definitely does.
Yeah, I guess the other oneswere not.
It's not confirmed.
Donova brought up in nonspoilers that it's directed by Ben
Stiller and just some.
(16:19):
A little checklist of thingsthat, that make it wonderful direction.
The soundscape of this episodedeserves some praise.
It's definitely the mostcinematic of any episode so far.
Those distant shots of themgoing to and fro in the, in this
wilderness and then rightafter the sex scene their faces are
(16:42):
cut in two.
It's a nice reminder of thatthese aren't just two personalities
of work versus home, but twoseparate people.
Probably as in Mark is aseparate person than he is when he's
at home and grieving over Gemma.
There was some stuff here andit's probably just because it's been
(17:04):
on the mind, but there were acouple shots there, especially like
when they really pulled out orthe director really pulled out.
Just choice of words.
Oh yeah.
Hey, that was good.
I knew that one.
The others were intentional.
Dude.
I almost thought like, wow,this is.
This is like on the edge ofsomething I'd see in like Twin Peaks,
the Return or something.
Yeah, I mean this was.
(17:24):
It was hard not to think oflynch this whole episode, really.
Yeah, I felt the same waymostly in a.
Like this is the first timeI've seen television try to do something
like this since Lynch.
Just embrace not only theweirdness but the darkness and the,
you know, finding the seal andthen being like, do we need to eat
(17:44):
this?
You know, all of this, likethe creepy story.
Yeah, creepy, Very creepy story.
And he did.
There were a few shots.
You're talking about the, thesex scene specifically where Irv
is also wandering through the woods.
There was one shot where italmost looked like their skin like
(18:05):
came in through the woods.
Yeah.
The way that they transitioned.
But I don't.
I meant to go back and watchit again.
Yeah, it looked like an oldschool like screen wipe kind of thing.
Yes.
The way that it faded in, but it.
It was almost like a creaturewas going.
And you're like, oh, that's.
That's just two humans, you know.
Yeah.
And it just such a strong.
(18:27):
Like that.
The evening scene, the nightscenes, they're diving into subconscious
kind of exploration.
And that.
That muddy water of that.
That screen wipe was so good.
Yeah.
So.
Yes.
So editing there as.
As well as some of the otherthings we've mentioned.
(18:47):
This episode felt like it.
Like mil check saying to them,you wanted to see the outdoors.
Well, here's.
Yeah, that's totally what itis, right?
Oh yeah.
It's almost a form of youasked for it, now you're gonna get
it.
Yeah.
You know, they keep showingthe picture of.
(19:08):
I guess it's.
It's the founder looking overthe hilltop down on the lakes.
And it looks a lot like Michigan.
Have you guys noticed this?
It looks like the Great Lakes.
That's a good thought.
I just keep getting stuck onlike it's so clearly.
What is it?
Wander in the sea of clouds or whatever.
You're right.
The.
That.
That's Wanderer above the seaof fog.
(19:30):
Yeah, something like that.
Boy, it looks.
It looks just like that.
It.
That was painted by a German, Frederick.
Is his name Frederick Dieteras well, or is it Dieter artist?
Yeah, it's something like that.
His first name is Frederick.
It's a.
It's a painting I've used in.
In class to study some things before.
(19:51):
Casper.
David Friedrich.
Okay.
It's Casper Friedrich.
I said Frederick.
Apologies.
You know, something that's ofnote is that when they're inside
the office, so much of it is white.
Except for maybe Irv'snightmare of the blackened hallway.
But everything outside here iswhite with all the snow.
Not just in this episode, butanytime they're outside, there's
(20:13):
so much snow that it's prettywhite all over.
That's a choice I haven'tthought about a whole lot, but it's
worth mentioning.
Well, it also restricts thetimeline so far to at best, what,
like a four to five month window?
Like, is it ever.
So do they ever.
The Audis, like, go to thebeach, you know, like what.
(20:33):
Yeah.
What do they do when?
In the summer months here.
I.
I like it for that reasonbecause it like, kind of destabilizes
the time where it's like, weknow more time should have passed
than that, yet it's justalways cold and dark, you know?
Yeah.
Or you're in the office wheretime doesn't really exist and time
doesn't really exist.
For the Ennis, it reminds meof white symbolism in religion being
(20:57):
about purity.
And there's so many religiouselements to the show, for sure.
Or at least quasi religious.
Like I mentioned last week,Scientology relationships.
They have some sort ofprojection or hologram of themselves
that help point the way throughout.
They're trying to get to Woes Hollow.
Did anyone else notice thatHeli's hologram is really putting
(21:21):
out some I'm dead, I'm dyingkind of vibes?
Yes.
It looks.
The other ones are kind oflike this is where I was started
thinking about the uncanny.
Because they say they'redoubles and you can't.
And they.
They're.
The way they're holding themselves.
They, they.
They are stiff and inhum.
You know, they're hu.
(21:41):
We recognize them as humanbeings, but they are stiff and inhuman.
Heli, the worst of them.
For.
For whatever reason, she givesthat stance, physical stance of referencing
the right movie there.
All bent and kind of ghostly.
Yeah.
Also rep.
Reminiscent of Irv seeing the.
(22:05):
The balding, tiny human woman.
She's the.
Not the bride of woe.
She's something of woe.
Scary stuff.
Whoever did the art for thisis great.
Like in the little sacred bookthey're reading, they have what's
clearly, you know, like a late19th century, middle to late 19th
century illustration of this.
(22:25):
And it looks really up.
Just like.
Just like, you know, like abook you'd find in a library as a
kid would.
Would scare you.
And then I like her in the true.
Because we know what's gonnahappen, but we all.
It's also great that she'sjust like working on her computer
while Irv's, like, staring.
It's fantastic.
It was spooky.
It was spooky.
I liked it.
It was good.
That's a compliment.
(22:46):
Britt Lauer had some supersubtle work happening here.
So.
And you.
I'm sure y'all noticed it.
You're gonna nod along to this.
There's an expression shemakes for a millisecond with Irving
where if you blink, you missed it.
Where she drops the facade for.
It's a little bit of anger.
Yeah.
And I love it when shows throwyou a scare when they're not a horror
(23:12):
like that.
That balding lady at the computer.
It's not quite a jolt, but itwas, like you said, spooky.
I like it when shows do this.
That's.
That's a.
Of course a Lynch perfected it.
Like, this isn't necessarily ahorror, but here's something that's
going to haunt You.
Well, it's very dreamlike.
(23:33):
Dream.
The idea of sleep has beentalked about a lot online since the
episode dropped.
And, I mean, Irv really usessleep in his subconscious to figure
it out.
Yep.
He's not willing to really layhis cards down, go for it with heli.
Until he has the dream.
(23:54):
And it.
It all seems to unlock.
Did he figure it out too easily?
I.
I wondered that.
I was like, you know, so there's.
A big theory online right nowthat we see him fall asleep in season
one, and he gets in troublefor it.
Oh, and they.
You know, these are people whohave never experienced sleep.
(24:16):
Right.
We don't actually know thatthey slept.
That night, by the way.
That's also my experience with life.
I rarely.
Some people think that he.
Audi.
Irv, was keeping himself awakeall night to be exhausted at work
to try to access thesubconscious that they would share.
(24:37):
And that's why he's able to.
He's found a way around thecommunication barrier between two.
Like, the chip doesn't go deepenough to impact dreams, which seems.
I mean, don't you dream aboutwork sometimes?
Yeah, I do by default.
Do they not all do this?
It's.
Yeah, it's come up before.
(24:57):
And he.
I think he got in a fair bitof trouble in season one.
Right.
Personally, they were prettystern about.
There's no sleeping at work.
Yes.
Most jobs are.
Sure.
But if it.
If it's gonna upset yoursecurity measures even more.
So the connection that she'san Egan is the one I was questioning.
(25:19):
Is that a little too easy forhim to have figured out?
Not that she is her Audi now,that they all should be questioning
that story she told them about.
Right.
The gardener boy that stuckwith him.
What was he wearing?
I thought that that was areally cleverly handled way for him
to say, like, who would havethe power to do this?
Yeah, it was.
(25:39):
Isn't his Audi a formermilitary, a Navy guy?
Possibly.
People are.
Again, not to be Mr.
Reddit over here, but peopleare pointing out, you know, he calls
her a mole immediately.
He.
Some of the tactics that he'susing, even the fact that he.
If we want to be grim aboutit, he waterboards her to get a confession
out of her.
He's very willing to.
(26:00):
Yeah, yeah.
All of his.
You know, he tries to.
He's using tactics that are,like, by the book to try to get a
confession out of her.
I'm 100 for Irv's actions here.
I did think that the.
There was a whiplash sort of zoom.
The show I don't think hasever used, which really helped with
the intensity of it of these moments.
(26:23):
I loved that I was like, whoa,that was a very quick camera movement.
How evil bad is Helena, right?
What does it say about herthat she's willing to sleep with
Mark, although she's not herany and hasn't been of late.
Is that a form of assault?
(26:43):
Sexual assault or rape?
I mean, the levels of consentthat are in question here.
Yeah, it's, it's pretty wild, Blaine.
But like what you said, if inreal life I were to trick somebody
else into thinking I wassomeone else so that they would have
sex with me, that would be a crime.
Like I could go to jail fordoing that.
Oh, that's a crime.
(27:06):
Maybe not in Alabama.
I'm actually not a millionaire.
And.
But you know, like at the, atthe beginning it's a betray or like,
at the very least it's a betrayal.
And does it like spiral out toeven work?
You know, just because.
And it helps to ask the greatquestion, like, who are these people?
Oh yeah.
Are they people?
Well, and you, if you wantedto be generous with her, you, you
(27:26):
would say that when she isshown watching footage of herself
and she sees that this kissthat she shares with Mark, you know,
as their enies, she is jealousof the woman that she sees because
she's been obviously in thishighly structured world where, I
mean, if it, if it ended upcoming out that don't they say that
(27:48):
she's like pure Egan or theysay something like that.
That kind of makes it sound alittle incesty.
You're literally, genetically.
It's like a Targaryen thing.
Like you really have like nochoice but to like, you're.
You're going to be the perfectcorporate woman.
And she sees this pretty freeany person and she's like, I want
(28:08):
some of that.
That would be the generousread that still has a lot of complex
consent questions.
But that's like as much as youcan give her, I think.
Yeah, I still think it's.
It may be a bit darker thanthat with some.
I mean, Donovan made a pullout joke earlier.
I mean, what are the chancesthat she doesn't get pregnant?
Are like, not good, right?
(28:30):
Yeah, I thought that wasinteresting too, since Adam, you
just raised.
Was it last week, like, what does.
What happens if you'repregnant, which is.
They talk about in season oneto some degree with that, the woman,
they go to the birthing thingand the woman has been severed and
then she doesn't remembermeeting them.
So when you think about what heli.
(28:51):
Any heli has experiencedlately, it is waking up in this room
full of people and giving thatspeech and then being tackled off
stage.
Right.
Essentially.
And then she goes from thatmoment of consciousness to underwater
and icy water.
Damn.
So like, if you're the womanat the birthing center, if you have
(29:12):
three kids, does she justsuddenly come to consciousness in
childbirth and then goes awayand then comes back and is in.
I mean, what.
What?
Hell, talk about a nightmare.
Yeah, it is nightmare.
If you talk about shows thatare, you know, lynch is not horror,
but it is horror.
Oh, yeah.
Like Helly's last 20 minutesare pure horror.
(29:33):
You use the phrase pure Egan.
I think there were two yearsof my life where I was pure Egans
with this.
Yeah.
Lucid joke there.
This episode was bizarrelydifferent in such good ways.
It kind of had a slower pace.
Yes, it did.
Which made that last six toeight minutes all the more shocking.
(29:55):
I almost completely forgotMark was getting reintegrated from
the previous episode's ending.
It kind of made me just forgetall about that.
In a good way.
No, I.
I agree.
The pacing was very deliberateuntil it was very fast, which was
also deliberate.
Oh, yeah.
Well, I think now you haveevery reason to question talking
(30:16):
about Mark and hisreintegration, the levels of awareness
that all of them have.
Yeah.
Because Mark is already slipping.
Right.
And now we know that Heli wasnot heli.
So that she was under question.
I think we have reason tomaybe question Irv.
That he's not fully severed anymore.
That's right.
(30:38):
He is at least able to.
As you rightly pointed out,his subconscious when he's outside
seems to be able to accessthings and possibly when he's on
the inside too.
Right.
Because he's painting.
He's painting the.
The hallway.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's perfectly.
With the militaryconditioning, if that's his previous
employer.
Well, and remember the.
(30:59):
The woman who is doing the.
We praise the procedure that'shappening for Mark last episode.
She says, I've gotten bettersince Petey.
Yeah.
Who did she get better with?
Could it have been Irv?
Good question.
I hope it's not the last wesee of Irv.
I don't think it would be.
There's no way they're gonnawaste him.
(31:19):
There's no way.
He's so good, isn't he?
But he's my favorite character.
The smirk.
Or when he's like, we have toeat the seal.
Like, that was smack.
That was so.
That was so good.
Yeah, it was so good.
Who.
Who comes upon a dead animalafter a couple hours in the woods
and said, well, we gotta eatthis one.
I love that whole scenebecause, like, there was like the
(31:41):
weird Frisian of them beinglike, maybe this is just what dead
things look like.
Because it just constantly.
Like what, like, what is theirlevel of like, human experience that
they bring with them?
And then him just instantlybeing like, we're starving to death,
we have to eat the seal.
I wanted to know what his.
I wanted to know what his plan was.
That was a great one.
It's like 1:30 and theyprobably all ate breakfast.
(32:02):
Yeah, yeah.
But Dylan had some classicones in this episode too.
He was very funny.
Hell of a dichotomy, that.
Kyrie.
Keirigan.
Keir.
Thank you.
Keir Egan is all about nature.
And yet they're deep in.
In an office without anyconnection to nature.
No windows, no plants that Ihave seen.
(32:25):
Only the goats in the grass.
That's right.
That one area.
That's right.
As far as I can recall.
So Milchick mentions removinga glass Glasgow block.
I think that was seen quicklyin episode one of this season.
Was it?
Yeah.
There's like a screenshot withother names on those old ass Apple
(32:48):
style computers that they have.
And.
And their names are Beehive,Elephant, Freeze Frame.
There's some more glass globeblocks on there.
It seems like those are thingsthey could all do to the severed
employees.
The Glasgow thing is what he'ssaying when he.
When Helly.
When they're negotiating.
(33:09):
Yeah.
Well, talking about the themeof nature, it's also been pointed
out that we know that Mark'smom's name is Fern Scout.
Wait, what?
Oh, her first name is Fern.
Fern Scout.
Yep.
Huh.
We do know that.
How do we know that?
It's in some previous episode.
It's come up.
Okay.
(33:30):
Makes you wonder about Dieterspilling his seed into nature, huh?
Oh, Deeter, man, that was hilarious.
Hey, I'm of the notion thatLumen's a company made to perfect
AI so that it can replicate ahuman and bring this consciousness
(33:51):
that they've saved of Kir Egan.
Yeah.
Like put him in a body, bringhim back to life.
I think we might have saidthat off mic last week.
Is.
Is Mark and Egan?
He could be.
Yeah.
He.
You'd have to think that heprobably is at this point because
the pregnancy plot line seemsto be the direction they're pointing.
(34:13):
We'll see.
Yeah.
You almost wonder if.
Right.
Like, there's a economy.
Right.
Maybe you've got likeTechnology guy.
And then, you know, hisbrother, who's all nature.
You.
You.
I almost wonder if it's like,oh, wait, are they maybe being synthesized
in some, like, horrific way?
Right.
Like, there's a bioengineeringproject and whatever.
(34:34):
Pure.
Pure speculation.
I mean, it would.
It would say that maybe you could.
You know, some people thinkthat the team is creating consciousness
and that they need Markbecause he.
The.
The numbers.
Having emotions and knowinghow to sort them in a certain way.
He's so good at it.
Yeah.
So it's.
Is it that they're creatinghis wife?
(34:57):
Right.
As a practice run?
I think that was a practice run.
Yeah.
And that they kidnapped herand have been holding her in some
way, and maybe, like, at somepoint, the body is not a thing that
needs to exist anymore, andyou have this consciousness that
you can then reintegrate.
That's right.
That's what I think.
Yeah.
(35:18):
The last time I saw such astrict bifurcation between technology
and nature is Train Dreamsfrom Dennis Johnson's novella Tell
Me More.
Well, it's right there in the title.
Train Dreams.
And talk about Train Dreams to me.
Yeah.
Well, that.
That movie is.
(35:38):
Is made now.
Speaking of a being highly praised.
Yes.
It just needs someone to pickit up, and I don't know if that's
happened yet.
Rumored to be Netflix, and if so.
Man, Focus Features or something.
Yeah, but I don't know.
I haven't caught up.
I haven't been keeping up withthat news, so.
(36:00):
Have y'all seen the title ofthe next episode?
It's.
Yes.
Thieving Nanny.
Which we were lucky.
Which we were.
You know, we weren't luckyenough to get that the next morning.
Mr.
Milchek, when he finished thechapter, said we might be lucky enough
to get to it the next morning.
Oh, that's right.
I don't want to get too intoit, but it's.
(36:22):
Thinking about the uncannymade me think about Milchek and Huang
too.
The way they.
They also act in ways thatmakes you unsure if they're human
or automaton.
Yes, they do.
At first, I think it's like.
It's like, oh, maybe they'resevered or something.
But just why?
I'm like, maybe there'ssomething else going on.
I agree.
There's something there thatseems like a threat or a disruption
(36:45):
to the ego or the sense ofself that are other severed people
don't necessarily experience.
Anyway, I found it.
I found this episode to be onethat tied things together thematically
without explicitly saying,like, hey, do you notice this connection.
Well, some people have pointedout the.
(37:07):
You're talking about theuncanniness that the first crew.
Episode one, the replacement crew.
They talk about thedifferences in the facilities.
Yeah, yeah.
And don't they say that theyhave like animatronic giggins in
one of them?
So is that what we're dealingwith here?
Is that what the.
(37:27):
They repurpose some of them tobe the four team members?
Maybe.
I don't know.
One guy does remind.
He's like.
It's just like a mop handletie with something tied to it.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
The Italian guy.
Something.
Yeah.
Shouldn't be overlooked thatthis show manages to remain very
funny.
Well.
Oh, yeah.
(37:48):
Something David lynch was alsovery good at.
Totally.
Yeah.
I love it when.
When Dylan makes one of hisridiculous quips.
I'm a.
I'm a big Dylan fan.
Yeah.
And they're so upset about the marshmallows.
Yes.
It reminds us of the child.
Childlike quality you talkedabout them having.
(38:08):
We don't get s'mores.
Do you remember, like in thefirst episode with the replacement
team.
I think it's with thereplacement team.
Right into that, like,childlike quality.
They're like, what do youthink sky looks like?
Yeah.
Or.
And then even in this one,they're like, I knew it wouldn't
be ceiling.
You know?
You know, it's like, what kindof like.
Like obviously they can read,speak, they know numbers.
(38:29):
Like they can do stuff.
But like, what.
What are they.
What are they missing?
Yeah.
Dylan was all about maybe awhole person.
Yeah.
In what ways are.
Are they.
Their state, a threat to aunified ego?
You probably want to add inthat Dylan is the most childlike
Audi.
You know, he's.
Yeah.
He's got that childlike quality.
(38:49):
Just sitting on the couch andnot understanding how to bake cookies
from this.
It's a tube of cookies.
It's a tube.
Yeah.
Which.
Which reminds me, I'm about togo eat a tube because junkies for
Super Bowl.
No, I'm not.
Maybe a snack.
For sure.
Do you.
Any final thoughts aboutepisode four or severance in general?
(39:11):
I mean, I feel like they'vejust set the table so well.
You know, I said at the top.
They keep answering questions.
We get.
We get the answer to heli already.
A lesser show would have madethat the entire season.
Yep.
And just more and morequestions come out every time.
And it's.
It's like you.
The classic.
Like you're seeing the tip ofthe iceberg, you know, and you.
(39:33):
You know it's all there and you.
A show can feel like it hasthe mythology of like the book that's
being read.
You know, like we don't haveto hear the rest of those stories,
but we feel like they'reinforming what's happening.
I think that's the mark oflike a really great piece of art,
piece of film, piece of tv.
Well, Apple's done the smartthing by hiring really good directors
(39:54):
and writers.
I think that's where Netflixfalters so much.
They get the actors, but theydon't get the good writing or the
good direction.
You got.
You got to get it all together.
You gotta have once they reallike I read sort of unrelated but
I think it was an N plus one.
A somewhat interestinganalysis that like once Netflix put
(40:17):
Kevin Spacey and I forget whoit was in House of Cards.
Yes.
And realized that people werewatching it based off of that than
anything else.
They were like, we'll just getlike we've, we've got the formula.
We'll get some big names in here.
We don't have to spend moneyon anything else.
That's why I'm so anti algorithm.
I don't want the same thing infive minutes or tomorrow or next
(40:40):
week.
It's not going to find thingsI didn't know that I wanted.
Yeah, exactly.
That's why I all but quitsocial media almost.
I found this episode to justbe a really satisfying one.
I think.
Adam mentioning how they setthe table.
I think that's part of whatworks for me with the, the quote
unquote mysteries.
I don't feel like I'm beingjerked around.
(41:01):
It feels like they're, they'reasking questions about the same stuff
they've been asking questions about.
So it really does feel likeit's going somewhere.
Well, that's it for today this week.
I just mentioned social media.
We're there, but the best wayto reach us is to send nudes via.
Email in the mail.
Oh, you want old school.
(41:22):
I want them printed out on a Polaroid.
Black and white's fine.
Doesn't have to be of yourself.
Could be your cat not wearing clothes.
As they're want to do.
I'm suddenly reminded of Dylansaying we live in a saloon now.
If you want to have aconversation a little more private,
(41:43):
email us@thealabamatakegmail.com.
i know that's not taking it down.
That's our home site.
Or if you want to have a openconversation, then just comment on
the Alabama take site.
We, we see those we respond,we'll be back next Tuesday and you'll
have things you'll want totalk about.
(42:03):
And we will, too.
Adam and I might be headedinto the direction of talking about
MO on Netflix.
Yeah, we were just hating onNetflix, but Mo, pretty good program.
It'll be a couple weeks beforewe can get around to.
I feel like we got to get toseason two.
Season two?
Yeah.
Because it's, it's much buzzedabout right now.
Right.
It was a January release.
(42:24):
But we'll get to Mo if youwant to play along.
If you haven't seen mo, it'son netflix, 25 minute episodes.
Quick hitters.
Quick hitters.
I'm three or four episodes deep.
We'll see.
I won't make any judgments yet.
We'll talk to everybody next Tuesday.
Thanks for listening.
(42:46):
Sometime with your.
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