February 18, 2025 • 45 mins
This week's episode of Taking It Down opens with a welcome specific to new listeners (0:01) before a quick summary for the week (0:45).
Donovan and Blaine then talk about what sticks with them throughout the fifty years of 'Saturday Night Live' (2:17) before shifting into the different Wild West of the Utah War in Netflix's series 'American Primeval' (6:59). The guys break down the show and its connections with no spoilers before discussing some of 'Severance' and its fifth episode in the non-spoiler section of the podcast (21:52).
After the break in the spoiler section of the week, it's only the fifth episode of 'Severance,' which gives both Donovan and Blaine a lot to think about despite its mid-point episode appearance (24:53).
Find this podcast and a lot more on the website The Alabama Take.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
This is Taking It Down.
If you're new to this podcast,we're the working class TV and streaming
podcast for the Alabama Takes site.
It's been my experience withworkers of the world that they often
want to know what's worthwatching or even if their ideas about
a show or movie are legitimate.
Just because someone grinds ata career doesn't mean that they don't
have critical thinking skills.
(00:21):
So this podcast exists for two reasons.
Hopefully to save you sometime by avoiding shows or movies
that aren't for you, and alsoto think through your own judgment
of an episode or film.
This podcast, Taking it down,is here to provide you, my fellow
working class citizen of theworld, a grounded, unique, maybe
blue collar, somewhatSouthern, somewhat intelligent and
critical perspective on TV and movies.
(00:43):
I'm Blaine.
I'm the host.
I'll be joined by Donovan in a bit.
I'm usually talking to bothDonovan and Adam, as you probably
know, but it's only Donovanand me this week to chop up that
fifth episode of Apple TVPlus's wildly popular series, Severance.
We won't spoil anything aboutSeverance until we get into the spoiler
section.
We'll briefly start theepisode with brief chatter on Saturday
(01:07):
Night Live and then someelongated and again, no spoilers
thoughts about the Netflixseries American Primeval, as I have
almost finished that series,but Donovan hasn't seen it.
Some of you may not have seen it.
I'm going to break down ifit's for you or not, without telling
you any aspect of the show.
All right, let me get Donovanin here to talk to me.
(01:37):
Yeah.
Welcome to Donovan, an everpresent source of goodwill and common
sense and cold medicine this week.
That's absolutely not true.
Except for the cold medicine.
The cold medicine's true.
The cold medicine is very true.
I need the stuff.
Like, you know how hard it isto get stuff that they used to make
meth out of.
Yes.
Did I answer that too quickly?
(01:57):
It used to be you got a coldand you took.
You took some of that goodmeth stuff and you were just out
for 24 hours.
Yeah.
Or felt okay, at least.
Now I can still feel my body.
I can still think my thoughts.
I don't like it.
You're lucky I'm here.
You're lucky I'm upright.
Well, I was going to say, theone thing we have in common to Saturday
(02:19):
Night Live is we press recordat the same time each week whether
we're prepared or not.
And 99% of the time, we're notthat prepared.
I thought what you were goingto say was, one thing we share in
common is that Elvis Costellois not allowed on either of our shows.
That son of a bitch is stillbanned from taking his ass is banned.
(02:40):
Donovan, I'm going to throwyou a bit of a curveball in our non
spoiler section.
Yeah, we may be the onlypodcast this week not talking about
Saturday Night Live.
By the way, I'm going to watchthe music one, if nothing else, because
there seemed like.
So I really want to see the St.
Vincent David Byrne stuff,because I guess it was what St.
(03:01):
Vincent, David Byrne andArcade Fire did.
Heroes.
Okay, yeah, I could watch aclip, but I really do want to watch
it.
And then, like, weirderchoices, like, I guess Nirvana reunited
with Post Malone.
Is Kirk with Kurt.
Oh, very straight.
Yes.
Yeah.
Dave, Chris, what's the other guy?
Oh, you.
You're talking about the extraguitars, Pat.
(03:23):
Yeah.
So they came together and thenPost Malone was Kurt Cobain which
sounds really odd to me.
That sounds like a train wreck.
But listeners know we recordon Sunday, and there's probably the
big 50th anniversary specialon tonight, I guess, on straight
up, about five.
About five and a half hoursfrom now, I guess.
(03:44):
That's straight up NBC.
Not even peacock.
I bet you could do both.
I'm not sure how that's goingto work, but I really do want to
watch that.
I'm a Saturday Night Live kindof guy sometimes if I'm.
If I'm up and it's live, Iwill certainly watch it.
You know, I.
When it hits, it hits.
Yeah.
I almost find myself a wholeepisode is a little much for me.
(04:05):
Oh, no, no, no.
That's a good point.
I never watch the whole episode.
I usually watch up until toldthe news, and then I watch it and
then I'm done.
I don't know.
Like, a whole episode is alittle much for me.
Like, I'm like, okay, I'veseen this bit.
Yeah, but like, when it.
When it hits it, like, whenit's good, it's good.
Yeah.
I tend to watch it on Saturday night.
I'm usually catching up on TVfor this podcast, which we record
(04:29):
on Sunday.
I'm catching up on things onSaturday night.
And then.
So I'm watching Saturday NightLive on a delay often because I've
wrapped up whatever TV I wasgoing to catch up on, and I just
go and.
And I've got it DVR'd and Iwatch it on delay.
Like, just as far as, like,monoculture goes.
Yeah, it is kind of like oneof the last things where, like, many
different people have seen it.
(04:50):
And it's sort of astounding,the, like, quality of music that
they continually get.
Like, they're not.
Like, they're not getting,like, something super out there experimental
or, you know, sun oh is notplaying on Saturday Night Live.
And I don't.
I don't know if this mattersanymore, but, like, when.
When I was a kid growing upreally pre.
(05:10):
A lot of stuff, this was,like, where you.
This is kind of how you foundout about stuff sometimes, you know.
You know what I mean?
Where it's like, oh, like, Imean, we were joking.
But it's like Elvis Costellodid get his ass kicked off Saturday
Night Live for playing radio.
Like, they had him.
Like, David Bowie playedSaturday Night Live with, you know,
some.
Some.
I can't remember the German fella.
(05:32):
He died of aids, I believe.
But, like, it was.
It's an iconic performance.
Yeah.
Like, they've.
Over the years, they've hadsome good stuff.
Yeah, they have.
They do point me in adirection that I may not know about,
you know, with music still.
Yeah.
The most recent one, I guess Iwatched was Timothy Chamalet, and
(05:54):
he was the musical guest as well.
How sick is his girlfriend ofhearing Bob Dylan songs?
She's probably.
She and my wife could start asupport group.
He kicks into, like, Blowingin the Wind, and she's like, I'm
going to my mother's.
Call me when you're done.
Some people did not care forhim being the musical guest.
(06:18):
Before or after he.
They saw it?
Oh, after.
Really?
I actually thought he didquite a good job.
I was impressed.
I was impressed.
Yeah.
I thought he did something different.
That's good.
Kind of cool.
I liked it.
I guess it is, like, sort oflike an extended cover set.
Although I do.
It's a little different ifyou've asked someone of clearly his
(06:38):
talent.
I mean, obviously he puts inthe time and energy and work to learn
about his subject.
So I thought it was kind oflike, okay, he's.
He's done this whole Dylan thing.
He's talked about Dylan.
He's thought about Dylan a lot.
Now he's getting to do themusic, which is kind of cool.
I love that he still never met him.
I hope he never will.
Yeah.
Well, I've watched almost allof Netflix's limited series, American
(07:01):
Primeval.
Yes.
Saved.
That's about the Mormons, right?
Yes, it is.
I saved my thoughts.
Sometimes I put them on thefront end alone.
But I saved them for usbecause I'm kind of set on how I
feel.
And I'm not gonna spoilanything either.
It's written by Mark L.
Smith, who wrote the Revenant,so it's got some Western bona fides.
It's directed by actor anddirector Peter Berg, who's directed
(07:25):
everything from the originalFriday Night Lights movie to Deep
Water Horizon and just.
Oh, is that him?
Yeah.
That's great.
Okay.
I did not know that.
Big action kind of thing sometimes.
Yeah.
He's got his own style and hebrings it to this show in.
What's the word?
In spades.
(07:45):
Might not be the word, butdefinitely a lot.
Sure.
He show set in 1857 in Utahwhen, like, you mentioned Mormons
and then various settlers andthe army.
I say they, they.
They damn well near got into awar with the federal government.
Like in, like in real.
Like in real life.
Yeah, yeah.
(08:06):
And then, of course, tossingthe Native Americans who already
live there.
Sure.
And it is kind of the Utah War.
I think it's referenced as in some.
In pretty much everywhere.
It's a.
I think there's also called aMassacre on Mountain Trail, which
is a more specific aspect of this.
What.
What would be your questions?
Having not seen any of it?
Is it good or is it overly grim?
(08:29):
Oh, wow.
Do you know how.
Have you read reviews or something?
Not really.
Really?
Because it's pretty.
It's grim.
Yeah, it really is.
Especially like post likeUnforgiven or whatever.
You just have this like.
It's like Lord of the Flies inthe West.
You know what I mean?
Exactly.
And I feel like some people,it's like, come on, I've seen this
(08:53):
before and some folks do itreally well.
Like one show, I think frompast five years that did it very
well was the English, but it wasn't.
It wasn't unremitting brutality.
Another show, granted, withonly a PG or movie with only a PG13
is like Cohen's True Grit wasa little closer to the bone.
Oh, really?
(09:13):
But.
But then you get, you know,you get some of these shows and you're
like.
It's almost like what happenedwith comics post Watchmen, where
it's like the substance, likeviolence is not the same as having
anything to say.
You've noticed this about Westerns.
You're quoting only Westerns,but some Western.
I mean, other shows too, butjust some Westerns.
(09:35):
Especially post.
My understanding is, postUnforgiven, this is really a thing.
Wow, that's an insightful observation.
Oh, certainly.
Well, it wasn't entirely mine.
I get it.
I get it.
I cobbled it together.
And I do think you see this in other.
Weirdly enough, I think it'scalled the Nightingale.
(09:58):
It's a movie about Australianfrontier society, but you kind of
get the same thing with it.
Like, it is grim.
Yeah.
It's almost as if people, whenthey want to go apocalyptical and
they don't want to make adystopian apocalyptical movie or
show, they go Western.
Yes, agreed.
I wonder why that is.
(10:19):
What is it about?
It's because it's lawless.
It's.
There's the Wild west, there'sanything can happen feel to it.
Yes.
I think too, you know, there's just.
It's enough of a kind of like,primeval American myth that, like,
you start putting some stuffon the screen and it's almost like
it's shorthand.
(10:39):
You're like, oh, I can get,you know, like, I, I know how I should
feel about these folks, youknow, who actually, I, I haven't.
And this is really not goodfor American primeval.
But I would.
I would actually put it as aperfect example of not doing this.
And still it's an incredible Western.
And it feels like the end ofthe world is the Cohen's no Country
(11:01):
for Old Men, where I don'tfeel miserable watching it.
It's actually like, if yourewatch it, it's actually funny.
Yeah, but it's.
Yeah, it is grim and it isdark, but it is not so damn good.
And then there's other stuffwhere I'm like, okay, you know, it's.
It's hard to.
It's kind of like whathappened with movies post Pulp Fiction,
(11:22):
right?
Where it's like, huh?
They watch Pulp Fiction,they're like, swears the N word and
murder.
That's what makes a movie for adults.
And it's like, not, not necessarily.
They.
They.
They try and imitate itwithout understanding what's under.
That's true.
I think there's a lot of that.
There's a lot of that, and ithappens with westerns a lot.
(11:43):
Now this one, I think viewerswill watch it and, and go two directions
and there will be no middle.
They'll either love it or, orthey'll hate it.
And at first I was almostturned off by how much effort there
was by Berg to stylize hisdirection with not, not the actors,
but the.
(12:04):
Just the set pieces, theaction pieces.
But at the same time, Iunderstand the want.
Need to create a Western thatstands apart from other things.
And this is a very different tale.
I don't Know that I've everread anything or watched anything
about the Utah War?
Yeah, no, I think it's.
I think I.
I like the premise.
(12:25):
I do, too.
So it does these.
This camera work thatdistracted me at first, but I grew
to love it in a way because itwas super stylized.
But I guess I either came toaccept it or.
Or I just watched it becauseof it.
And not really.
Even in spite of that, I justkept watching.
It's like, why.
You know, that is super trickycamera work to do for our Western,
(12:47):
why they keep doing this.
And I just kept watching, butI returned to it pretty eagerly on
a nightly basis.
It's a show where everyepisode seems to get worse and worse
for the characters, and youwonder what's next.
You know, there is that.
You mentioned that.
That grim reality.
There is this.
I can't put my finger exactly what.
(13:07):
But there's this Netflix nessto it.
Okay.
And.
And it's okay.
It's fine.
Taylor Kitsch is in thismovie, and his character was a little
tropey.
Too many tropes on one guy.
Okay.
Yep.
But I felt as though he andthe rest of the cast understood their
(13:27):
characters as the episodes andfilming went on, and it got really
good.
Shea Wiggums in this.
He.
You and I know him from Perry Mason.
Yes.
The Perry Mason sidekick,though, my goodness, whatever he's
in, he elevates it.
Enjoyed him quite a bit.
He's so good.
He's perfect in whatever youwant to cast him in.
(13:48):
And he's very versatile.
He's versatile, and I don'tthink I've seen him in a Western.
I might be wrong, but he.
My God, when I saw him, Ithought, why the fuck hasn't he been
every Western 2010.
He's kind of got the face forit, doesn't he?
I mean, he's a grizzled, tired guy.
Put him in some dust.
You know, he's running his ownfort in Utah.
(14:10):
And, man, I loved his.
His performance.
Betty Gilpin is in this.
You may remember her from glow.
Yes.
She plays a.
A lady who's recently come outwest with her son.
And she's kind of the.
Dare I say, audience surrogate.
She.
She's the really fictionalpart of this story.
(14:31):
She and Taylor Kitsch's character.
But she does well.
She's.
She's a great actress.
She does really well in this.
And that's the story you kindof move along with.
There are parts of this,though, that feel like two or three
different shows at once.
Okay.
And that's going to either bein a good way or bad way for the
viewer.
Okay, you're going to.
You're going to watch this andgo, I love all of these stories.
Or you're going to watch thisand go, you know, make this cohesive.
(14:54):
Okay?
Because.
Yeah, the last time I had thatfeeling about a Western years ago
was Godless.
And for me, it was.
I do not care about.
Godless is not a Western.
That I enjoyed, folks.
And part of it was like,choose something and stick to it,
please.
Okay, Just pick one damn thing.
(15:15):
I think you would like thismovie for one performance if.
Okay, well, Shea Wiggum,obviously, but I'll give you another
one.
Okay.
If a movie or show ever needsan actor to play Satan, I'm going
to suggest Kim Coates, whoplays Brigham Young.
He looks like somebody whostepped out of 1857 and they said,
dude, jump on this next flick show.
William.
(15:36):
Apparently he was in Sons ofAnarchy, which makes a whole lot
of sense.
Yeah, I liked it.
I've got one episode to go.
This does set me up for.
We got a comment on our site,the Alabama take for our last podcast
episode, where I mentionedAmerican Primeval briefly at the
beginning, and it was from 87Jedi, our regular listener.
(15:56):
Yeah, I always want to givehim credit.
He said he's a regular.
He said, favorite part of thisepisode, talking about our podcast
episode, and he mentions it'sbecause he's so far behind on Severance
was that Blaine mentions thecriminally underrated Shea Wiggum.
His performance as Jim Bridgeris one of the many highlights of
American Primeval, and he'sbeen great as one of Jeff Nichols
(16:16):
main guys who is a son of ananarchy guy.
That's.
Am I right about that?
Yeah, I think so.
Although my personal favoriteShea Wiggin performance is Ray and
Vice principles.
Hilarious, man.
I haven't thought about thatone for a minute.
Yeah, he is so good.
I would love to see him castas a vice principal.
You know that he plays, ofcourse, like a.
(16:39):
A stepdad figure.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's so funny if he wouldhave been a Vice, but funny as.
Anyway, he says, lookingforward to hearing further American
Primeval discussion.
I binge watched the entireseries in two sittings because I
really enjoyed it.
All right.
That's quite the.
That's quite the endorsement.
He and I, he and I, he and ushave a lot of similar taste when
(17:01):
it comes to shows.
So, yeah, if he's suffered in.
Through as many episodes ofthis as I know he's suffering through.
I'll make another.
And this is kind of linked,but I didn't think about it until
you started talking aboutAmerican Primeval.
And I do think, you know, you,you, you have said a couple times
that in Severance it remindsyou of Scientology.
(17:23):
And I agree there is some.
But I was watching this lastepisode and thinking it actually
kind of reminds me ofMormonism in the sense that.
And I do not mean this in a.
In a negative or, or any wayagainst the religion of the latter,
you know, Church of JesusChrist, Latter Day Saints.
But it reminded me so much ofhow Mormonism is really the.
(17:47):
An American religion, like,religious movement that came 100%
out of America.
And I feel like, especiallywith a lot of the paintings of Kier,
that they are pulling on veryAmerican iconography to create this
very American.
So I was like, I wonder ifsomeone old Severance HQ has done
(18:09):
a little thinking about this.
Much like the Western is apure, almost purely American cinema
experience.
Even.
Even other genres that like,adapt it or.
So I'm thinking of Kurosawa'sexcellent Yojimbo, which is just,
you know, which got turnedinto basically, yeah, you know, the
Clint Eastwood movies.
(18:30):
But, but, you know, it's,it's, it's referencing the Western
the whole time while stillbeing a fantastic samurai movie.
Yeah, it's a lot like the blues.
And then the British Invasionborrowed the blues and then the Americans
came back to the roots of theblues, which is silly.
There were times where Ithought American Primeval didn't
(18:50):
have something to say, but Ithink it does.
That's what I always kind ofwonder about when it's like something
that is iconic, like aWestern, something that allows you
to have like, you know, sex,violence, etc.
Lets you go full Lord of the Flies.
But are you just saying, youknow what?
People are pretty shitty toeach other most of the times.
Because, friend, I alreadyknew that.
(19:13):
Yeah, I can turn my TV on to cnn.
I already knew that.
You know.
Yeah.
But do you have something more with.
Your idea of probably truth, Ishouldn't say idea that Mormonism
is the true American religion,began in America.
You know, that's.
That's not original with me.
That's.
So I think of sociology of religion.
(19:33):
No, that's okay.
I was just gonna say that I.
Think that kind of brings that up.
American probably might evenbe playing with.
That a little interesting.
Yeah, if so, that's.
Then it does have something to say.
If not, eh, it's still prettyfun to watch, I think, even in its
Brutality.
That's kind of all we can atthe end of the day.
It's nice when somethingreally speaks to you, but if it was
(19:56):
just fun to watch, that's awin, too.
Yeah, it is.
You know, there's so much crapout there, it's hard to make something
that people actually enjoy.
So.
Yeah.
Still got that Netflix imprint somehow.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Like, it's got.
It's almost.
But it's.
Get away from that a little.
It's almost like I kept askingmyself, can I see this somewhere
besides Netflix?
Could I see this air?
(20:17):
I think I could see it onApple tv.
Okay.
They do have.
And I think it's coming fromtheir business side.
Honestly, I.
They have a house style, and Ithink it's.
It's not on the side of art.
You know, the episode Iwatched this morning, I said to myself,
I couldn't see this on hbo,but I could see it on Apple.
Okay, so it's some.
There you go.
There's where it lands.
Is it.
(20:38):
Does it rise above someNetflix stuff?
I think so.
Does it rise as high as theBest of hbo?
No, he doesn't.
But, hey, there you go.
You're paying for Netflix anyway.
Might as well watch it.
You know, Emily Vanderwerff.
I just remembered this once.
The TV critic EmilyVanderwerff once made an awesome
point about Net, and this wasearly Netflix, but I think it still
(20:59):
stands.
And I think this speaks tosome of this where she said, you
know, she was talking about,like, versus, like a Mad Men or Breaking
Bad or something on hbo.
Just like those shows areaiming for it for, like, A's, and
when they hit it out of thepark, they're A pluses.
Whereas, like, a Netflix show,a lot of times they're happy to hit
a B.
Yeah.
(21:20):
So when they hit it out of thepark, it's a B plus, not an A plus.
And I think.
I think she's really correctabout that.
And I think that comes from the.
The business side and thewriting and the directing.
Yep.
We're getting a little in the weeds.
This is the kind of thing Ireally try to avoid on our podcast.
It's a little bit too muchinside baseball kind of thing.
But I will say this.
(21:41):
Netflix, when they buy thingsand they don't produce it themselves,
tend to be a lot better.
Yes.
I would also agree with that.
Well, you know, I was talkingabout Apple plus there.
We'll segue into non spoilerstill, by the way, just for a second
or two.
I say I don't know how much Icannot spoil anymore in this show.
True.
Talking about the fifthepisode of Severance titled Trojan's
(22:03):
Horse, let's just.
I will.
I will say this as a completenon spoiler, but maybe it'll set
us up to get into spoilersafter the break.
The episode was kind of table setting.
But Severance is high qualityenough at this point that even their
midpoint episode isn't a boreor chore.
Yes, it comes off a highstakes episode and you don't expect
(22:26):
everything to be a high or you shouldn't.
I would say it's actually badif everything is a high.
Well, everybody got really spoiled.
Or with Breaking Bad, everyepisode is just dizzy with.
With expectation.
But I did like this one.
It's not a board, so I'll chore.
I liked it and I was always.
Interested for my non spoiler.
(22:48):
I'll say I got to the end ofthe episode, realized the episode
was ending and thought tomyself, is it already over?
Yeah, I did too.
Which is a compliment.
You love that kind of feeling.
Yeah, you do.
You know it in these days,Apple ends them and gives you a little
extra at the.
At the end.
(23:08):
I love that.
And.
And I'm appreciative of it.
But that happened to here andI thought, my God, there's so much
time left.
Oh, wait.
Yeah, it's the little bonus.
Let's take a break for spoilers.
30 seconds.
We're back with spoilers allwe got in spoiler section.
(24:53):
This week's the fifth episodeof Severance titled Trojan's Horse.
So if you haven't seen, ifyou're not that far, maybe even if
you haven't watched some ofseason two, you might want to take
a break, come back to us andwe'll welcome you with open arms
right here.
Check your time stamps and youcan always come back.
Yeah, Donovan.
We, we.
Oh, we got an email related to this.
(25:13):
So I say we got a comment andan email.
This is crazy.
This is from Tim.
Tim from SETI Bimco, whom Imentioned to you guys on Mike.
Yes, very kind guys.
They're practically friends of ours.
He says, in reference to thefourth episode of Separates, he says
that.
Actually I keep calling it thesnow episode in my head.
(25:35):
They're all snow episodes.
This one more so.
Yeah, Lowe's Hollow is thename he to be talking about here.
He says if episode four ofSeverance was not a virtual reality
type situation, we had tospend the rest of the show dealing
with sexual assault.
I guess it's sexual assault,even if it was in their heads.
But it leaves me with an extrafeeling of.
(25:55):
And he.
Paul says dread about theshow, which is as it should be.
But also yuck.
Any heli is basically violatedby two people.
Or I think she.
He means violates two people.
I think that's what he means.
Those are my thoughts.
To add your great thoughtsabout the show.
I enjoyed listening.
And that's from Tim,specifically from Seti Bimko.
(26:16):
He says Tim without George.
Thanks Tim.
Yeah, thanks Tim.
I.
I think he's picked up onsomething that was extended this
episode and I am kind ofliking which is that any heli is
at war.
It continues to be at war withher Audi self.
You forget that in thisseason, don't you?
Yes, you do.
But then when it kind of comesback just again the quite like the
(26:37):
nature of personhood, youknow, like is any Henny of heli a
full person?
Is Audi heli a full person?
Or are they.
Are they each less of a personbecause they're separated from each
other?
It's funny that we evenquestioned if that was her Audi down
there in the office becausewhen you see any Hilly the mule.
(27:00):
She's doing a good job.
She's doing such a great job.
And when you say she's doing agood job.
Yeah.
You think to yourself, man,I'm glad she's back.
It's funny how she in someways is playing her like mannerisms.
Ish.
The same way that that AdamScott's character does where it's
just.
(27:21):
And to have the contrast islike when she was her Audi.
She is much.
She's much more reserved and you.
And you don't realize thatuntil you see her any who is much
more outgoing.
She want.
You know and she's.
She's thinking of others.
Right.
She.
She's tuned into theiremotional states as opposed to like
(27:41):
you know the.
The Audi heli really kind ofdoesn't give a.
She's using people as we sawin the last episode.
She's using these people.
Audi, Helena.
We could even Helena.
Yeah, that's thank you show bythe way for.
Yeah.
You know it does give us anice Heliar versus Helena.
Helena is strict.
(28:02):
Like they want everyone inLumen to be no kindness, no joy.
Have this affectation.
And she's got it.
I'm assuming naturally bybeing an Egan and you just want to
shake her by the shoulders andsay stop being so uptight.
(28:23):
Yes.
So I mean it's.
It's an easy thing.
Right.
But Even her hairstyle.
Right.
With, like, the hair drawn back.
We did see a little of thereserve crack, which I thought was
interesting.
And then she's like, I'm notgoing back in there.
Oh, yeah, you know they'retrying to kill me.
Yes.
The gays.
They're trying to kill me.
(28:44):
She's like, my innie is tryingto kill me.
Yeah.
Fascinating.
They're monsters.
Like, I've got this thinginside me that's a monster and that.
You know, we've talked aboutthis in various ways, so forgive
us for being redundant, butthere is probably a part of us, the
lizard brain in all of us,that really just operates to survive
or kill.
(29:05):
Yes.
You know, mine is that itcan't survive without ice cream every
three days.
Just barrels of it.
And that will kill me.
What the hell's wrong with mylizard brain There?
That's going to kill me.
That's my.
That's my innie.
I suppose that's your innie.
Yeah, yeah.
Or my version of the innie.
And that's what she's getting at.
She says, irv tried to kill me.
She doesn't call him by name.
(29:26):
Yeah.
She says, there's another onedown there trying to kill me now.
I'm not going back.
I'm really interested how thisshow avoids being kind of like Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde with.
For at least, in my opinion,at least two of the characters, their
innies, from what we've seen,are better and more exemplary people
(29:47):
than their outies.
So instead of this being justlike, oh, it's the darkness bottled
up inside all of you.
I think Dylan and Helly, Ilike them.
We haven't seen enough toreally know, but I like them better
as the people they are inside.
Lumen.
Exactly.
Of course you do.
Yeah, that's the idea.
It's really doing somethingwith, like, the subconscious more
(30:09):
than just like, okay, well,your ID can get loose and destroy
everything, you know?
Yeah, good point.
Beautiful angles for shooting.
Once again, used here to remind.
Yeah, I think it was.
Was the director, Sam Donovan.
It is.
I didn't know.
I.
I was wondering if it was Ben.
And then we got Stand.
Yeah.
(30:30):
I'm on first name basis withhim and I thought he also did an
excellent.
An excellent job of directing.
Yeah.
There's nothing in here thatno one else is going to pick up on.
Sometimes I wonder when I jotdown a thing or two about the show,
I think everyone's gonnanotice this, but I just want to point
it out because it's in thereto remind the viewer subconsciously
(30:52):
or consciously of the story.
So it's there when Hellychecks on Mark in the bathroom.
And there are two of her,thanks to a mirror, and only one
of him.
And that.
And then there's anotherreally nice one.
It's a line between Mark andMilchick later in the elevator where
he is.
He's getting into his personal space.
And that.
That line is thin.
It's a literal thin line.
(31:13):
And it.
He crosses the thin line.
I thought there was a.
Another bit that I liked wasjust Ms.
Swang and Mr.
Milchick speaking to eachother and literally speaking past
each other.
It was like.
It was so much that.
It was like.
Because, you know, they'retalking and you're supposed to think
(31:34):
it's face to face, but the waythat the camera holds, they're not.
You can't necessarily tell ifthey are talking face to face.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah.
Well, I didn't pick up on that.
It was just another thingwhere I was like.
It wasn't so obvious that it distracted.
But as I.
The more I've watched it, themore I liked it.
And of course, I'm enjoyingthe acting of all of you know, what
(31:56):
I'm enjoying about thedirecting is that it's underscoring
and amplifying the acting.
And I think that's really noteasy to do.
Right.
Yeah.
It's not gonna throw anythingat you that most people aren't picking
up on.
So our job here is relatively easy.
Yes.
Ms.
Wang's out to get Milchick,isn't she?
(32:16):
Let's just say she kind ofseems to have given him a vote of
no confidence after.
After last episode.
Stop using those big words, Milchick.
Yeah, those were.
That was hilarious.
That's a good one.
She was.
She put in those complaints.
Oh, of course.
Yeah, of course.
She.
And she could, probablybecause she's pissed off that he
wouldn't let her play thetheremin at the funeral.
(32:39):
Of course, Lumen.
Lumen's musical instrument ofchoice is a theremin and not a violin
or guitar.
It just.
It does like, the.
The show does such a good job of.
Of maintaining that.
Funny.
Where, like, they're actually arguing.
But Milchick, she's like, I practice.
Milchick's like, you can playfor me later.
Which he probably never brings up.
(33:00):
He doesn't give a shit.
Again.
Yeah, man.
You just.
I just love Tillman'sperformance as Milchick.
Absolutely.
There's a lot going on with that.
Guy, I like how much and Ithink this episode you picked up
on it.
Okay.
In an earlier episode with hisreaction when he gets the paintings
and, and the wave that he kindof shares a moment with.
(33:23):
I believe it's Natalie.
Natalie, Natalie.
And I think we're.
He is doing such a good job.
Like, if you like just, youknow, do you watch the first season
or whatever?
We watch one episode with thisguy and it's like he's holding back.
Of course.
But like, I think that there'slike depths of how much he is holding
(33:43):
back.
I agree with that.
You know, and we start to seeit again with his reaction, his questions
to Natalie about the paintingsand honestly his decision to get
physically challenging Mark.
Because we've never seen thisside of him before.
Huh.
Yet, yet.
We're not seeing anger yetfrom really like anger or maybe rage.
(34:08):
We're seeing anger, but itfeels applied very precisely.
We're not seeing any loss of control.
This guy is possibly heldtogether by God knows what.
And when he blows up, I wonderwhat's going to happen.
He's simmering.
That's exactly.
He's got, he's got a lot goingagainst him right now.
(34:28):
But like you said, there'ssuch depth to it because he's also
lonely and desperate to talkto someone about this painting situation.
Yes.
And there's this thing where he's.
You can almost see that he'ssaying, look, I know we're not the
stand in for every blackemployee, but this happened to you.
(34:51):
I'm the only person I knowit's happened to.
We're both in the minoritywith being black as well as being
a minority and having thepaintings given to us.
Let's talk about this.
And she doesn't say anything.
She gives him a look.
She has a moment again.
She has another moment whereit's like, I read her look this time
as I can't talk to you about this.
(35:12):
That'S exactly what I.
How I read it too.
So there's.
I wish that they could justget away from the office, go have
a drink, get the, get theearbuds out of their ear.
No one's listening.
No one's talking.
And just, just hash this out.
Yeah, I enjoyed this little.
Maybe it's not a subplot too,but just this additional layer for
(35:33):
Milcheck is like he's athinking, feeling, living human being.
And you can see that like yousaid, he wants.
He's almost desperate to makethis connection because he's so isolated
in so many other Ways.
Yeah.
He's a lonesome guy.
And then his performancereview makes him feel and look even
(35:57):
more desolate.
I like how they give you alittle book afterwards with lecture.
That's so accurate.
That was so summary.
That was so good.
You get like a little bookshowing just how mad they are at
you.
Yeah.
Perfect.
So, so passive aggressive in.
In the corporate.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
(36:18):
Can you imagine having a jobwhere you got a performance review,
like a two to six hourperformance review every month?
I'd lose my mind.
Yeah.
To order out for lunch.
I try.
Yeah.
I wouldn't be there.
Yes.
And you gotta think he's not severed.
So is he there?
He just believes in the Churchof Egan, whatever it happens to be.
(36:39):
You know, he wants Keira'slight to follow you.
Whatever is he.
That's a good.
I mean.
And we don't know enough yetto be like, is he a true believer?
Is the money just too good?
You know, it's got to be the money.
Maybe.
I mean, he.
What we know so far is he hasbeen loyal to the company, obviously,
(36:59):
but he is not Harmony Cobell.
And he's said that a couple times.
And he wants a couple, and hewants to do things differently.
And he's taking flack forthat, for being his own person, basically.
They basically are like,you're treating these people with
empathy because, you know, thecompany's answer to the question
(37:20):
that we've raised severaltimes is severed employees are not
people.
Right.
They're called in a weed.
The Enni is not a full human being.
Treating them like a fullhuman being obscures what they are.
Yep.
Well, speaking of characters,I'm truly glad we got to see Irv
as soon as we do.
(37:41):
Yeah.
I was a little worried he'd be.
Out for the whole episode ortwo or three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm glad we got to see him andwhat he's up to, if only because
John Turturro is fantastic.
I can't wait to see this weirdquasi Menageritwois.
He's going into Bert andFields, so.
(38:02):
He'S being watched byChristopher Walken.
Of course.
It's excellent to rope himback in.
I'm glad that happened.
He was.
I saw sideline credits and I'mlike, he's coming back today.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
He was sidelined for a minuteand he was watching Irv make a phone
call.
We don't know who the phonecall is.
No.
Now, here's the real questionbehind the question.
(38:24):
If that opening scene issomeone gathering surgical tools
to fix Irv.
Do something with Irv since hegot fired.
What's Irv up to with thephone call or does that mean he did
not get fixed at all or.
Or whatever.
Good question.
(38:44):
And why are they whistling?
Edmund Fitzgerald, our.
Our co host and fellow.
Adam was joking about howquickly he tuned into that, but I
was probably like too into it.
I was like, Adam Morrow wrote this.
It's now that.
That's a song about a.
One of the biggest ships inthe Great Lakes and Lake Superior
(39:06):
and that sank.
Yep.
Is it a nod?
This is a.
You know, Adam mentioned.
Do you see Michigan?
I see Minnesota.
Yeah.
Is it something like that?
The Great north there?
Feels like it, doesn't it?
A little bit.
I don't know why.
I think whistling that's avery specific song choice.
Who knows.
And we never see his face.
Never see his face.
(39:27):
That could be just one ofthose things that, you know, you
don't see other people's faceswho aren't that important.
Could be a red herring.
Could be.
Right, right.
Who's he using those tools on?
Is it implied it's herbs.
Any.
I don't know.
I don't know either.
That could be Helly.
I don't know.
(39:47):
Speaking of characters whoaren't important, we got Rick and
back giving this.
Giving this episode its name.
The Trojan's horse.
Yeah.
Well, what's up with that?
So you have thoughts on thetitle coming from his quote about
trying to get his book in with them?
Yeah.
Well, for.
For one thing I thought it wasa great joke just with Rickon's character
(40:08):
where he's like almost but notquite correct.
It's like you don't call it aTrojan's horse.
It's the Trojan because it.
It's not the Trojan's horse,it's the Greek's horse.
Right, right.
You know, so he.
He inverts it and I kind ofwonder if we're meant to be thinking
about the ways that Heli isand some of the other and.
(40:29):
And Irv are.
If we're supposed to thinkabout them as.
Are they the.
Are they the Trojans horses?
Especially in a way in the waythat like Helly has been both where
she was as her innie coming toon the stage and saying what she
did and then as her Audimasquerading as her innie.
(40:52):
It's a very another choicethere because they used it as the
title.
I really wanted to point.
Or it could mean nothing.
I don't know.
Well, no, I felt that feltpretty significant.
It does.
Yeah.
Rick and his.
His book continues to make mecrack up.
Like, it's.
And they do.
Somebody did such a good jobof getting, like, a sense of, like,
(41:14):
late 19th, early 20th century.
Like, managerial.
Like.
Like.
Like writings.
Like.
Like the people who.
I can't remember their namesnow, but these are the guys who pioneered,
like, efficiency.
Right.
Efficiency.
Efficiency.
Efficiency.
Above all.
Somebody just nails the toneof that writing with his.
(41:34):
Yeah.
In his writing.
I thought that was really good.
It was.
I laughed out loud, like, agood solid chuckle at the funeral
quote where Dylan mentions thetoner and he says, but I did take
a sip of the flavor because I forgot.
I thought that was.
I chuckled aloud.
(41:54):
I didn't see that coming.
Dylan remains very good.
I also, you know, just.
The show keeps.
Does have that sense of humor still.
Like, when he finishes andMilcheck goes nose.
A little sugar with your usual salt.
Yeah.
It's just so even.
He notices it.
Yeah.
It's so good.
Mark's.
(42:14):
Mark's anger and distance fromHaley is very real.
You know, I have had.
Yeah, I guess possible datesor girlfriends in the past where
I would think, well, that Ican't trust them anymore, so I just
better cut them off.
That's the way to go.
I think it's in an addition.
Dole twist is.
It's right.
Like, she literally has no idea.
(42:37):
One of our last real memoriesas any would have been kissing him,
maybe.
Is that right?
Yep.
So she has no idea what happened.
And it's obviously too painfulfor him to broach.
And, like, even, you know,Dylan was kind of starting to throw
some bombs that way, evenwith, like, you know, Miss.
Is it Clavel?
I can't, you know, like, she'syour Harmony Cobell.
(42:59):
Oh, no, no, no.
Sorry.
The person that.
What is his.
What is his wife's name?
Adam Scott's characters.
Gemma.
It's something with a C.
Anyway, he kind of startsthrowing that stuff out there.
Yeah.
It's obviously, like, the lastthing in the world he.
Like, he's too.
It's too painful to talkabout, but it's too painful to ignore.
So what do you do?
(43:20):
Distance yourself.
Yeah.
Then the episode ends with himseeing his wife again in some sort
of.
What would you call it?
Hallucination?
Dream, or maybe real?
There in the hallway wherehe's allowed the lady who does the
reintegration.
(43:41):
She did it for Petey.
She's doing it for Mark.
He's allowing her to live withhim, much like Petey did there in
the basement.
I think that's one aspect ofthe show.
I'm a little.
What's the word?
Tired is too strong of a word.
I'm a little over.
I'm a little ready to move on from.
Is him seeing Gemma's face inareas of his life?
(44:02):
Sure.
You know, I think that oneneeds to have some sort of answer.
Nothing definite, but that's.
We've got the question ofwho's Irv calling on the payphone.
You know, it feels like we'vegot enough questions floating.
We can answer one or two now.
Keep us.
Get us off the hook.
Yeah.
With the Gemma thing.
(44:22):
Something about that is not asappealing to me as some of the other
questions are floating.
Do you want to send us offthis week with your version of the
Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald showing?
Yeah.
It's a play on a kazoo.
That would be a theremin.
A theremin.
That would be great.
(44:42):
Yeah.
That's the end of our podcast episode.
We would love it if you go toour home south, the Alabama Take,
and subscribe to the newsletter.
If you'd like or subscribe tous, you can go.
Each of our podcasts under theAlabama Take has their own page and
you can go.
There's a list of podcast apps.
It's easy to subscribe.
Or you can leave us a commentjust like that was done this week.
(45:04):
We'll respond.
We'll read it here if.
If it fits perfectly, and theyusually do.
We can't guarantee that it'snot our.
Any reading these comments forDonald, for Adam, who will be back
next week.
We appreciate your time.
We'll talk to you all next week.
This is Taking It Down.
If you're new to this podcast,we're the working class TV and streaming
podcast for the Alabama Takes site.
It's been my experience withworkers of the world that they often
want to know what's worthwatching or even if their ideas about
a show or movie are legitimate.
Just because someone grinds ata career doesn't mean that they don't
have critical thinking skills.
(00:21):
So this podcast exists for two reasons.
Hopefully to save you sometime by avoiding shows or movies
that aren't for you, and alsoto think through your own judgment
of an episode or film.
This podcast, Taking it down,is here to provide you, my fellow
working class citizen of theworld, a grounded, unique, maybe
blue collar, somewhatSouthern, somewhat intelligent and
critical perspective on TV and movies.
(00:43):
I'm Blaine.
I'm the host.
I'll be joined by Donovan in a bit.
I'm usually talking to bothDonovan and Adam, as you probably
know, but it's only Donovanand me this week to chop up that
fifth episode of Apple TVPlus's wildly popular series, Severance.
We won't spoil anything aboutSeverance until we get into the spoiler
section.
We'll briefly start theepisode with brief chatter on Saturday
(01:07):
Night Live and then someelongated and again, no spoilers
thoughts about the Netflixseries American Primeval, as I have
almost finished that series,but Donovan hasn't seen it.
Some of you may not have seen it.
I'm going to break down ifit's for you or not, without telling
you any aspect of the show.
All right, let me get Donovanin here to talk to me.
(01:37):
Yeah.
Welcome to Donovan, an everpresent source of goodwill and common
sense and cold medicine this week.
That's absolutely not true.
Except for the cold medicine.
The cold medicine's true.
The cold medicine is very true.
I need the stuff.
Like, you know how hard it isto get stuff that they used to make
meth out of.
Yes.
Did I answer that too quickly?
(01:57):
It used to be you got a coldand you took.
You took some of that goodmeth stuff and you were just out
for 24 hours.
Yeah.
Or felt okay, at least.
Now I can still feel my body.
I can still think my thoughts.
I don't like it.
You're lucky I'm here.
You're lucky I'm upright.
Well, I was going to say, theone thing we have in common to Saturday
(02:19):
Night Live is we press recordat the same time each week whether
we're prepared or not.
And 99% of the time, we're notthat prepared.
I thought what you were goingto say was, one thing we share in
common is that Elvis Costellois not allowed on either of our shows.
That son of a bitch is stillbanned from taking his ass is banned.
(02:40):
Donovan, I'm going to throwyou a bit of a curveball in our non
spoiler section.
Yeah, we may be the onlypodcast this week not talking about
Saturday Night Live.
By the way, I'm going to watchthe music one, if nothing else, because
there seemed like.
So I really want to see the St.
Vincent David Byrne stuff,because I guess it was what St.
(03:01):
Vincent, David Byrne andArcade Fire did.
Heroes.
Okay, yeah, I could watch aclip, but I really do want to watch
it.
And then, like, weirderchoices, like, I guess Nirvana reunited
with Post Malone.
Is Kirk with Kurt.
Oh, very straight.
Yes.
Yeah.
Dave, Chris, what's the other guy?
Oh, you.
You're talking about the extraguitars, Pat.
(03:23):
Yeah.
So they came together and thenPost Malone was Kurt Cobain which
sounds really odd to me.
That sounds like a train wreck.
But listeners know we recordon Sunday, and there's probably the
big 50th anniversary specialon tonight, I guess, on straight
up, about five.
About five and a half hoursfrom now, I guess.
(03:44):
That's straight up NBC.
Not even peacock.
I bet you could do both.
I'm not sure how that's goingto work, but I really do want to
watch that.
I'm a Saturday Night Live kindof guy sometimes if I'm.
If I'm up and it's live, Iwill certainly watch it.
You know, I.
When it hits, it hits.
Yeah.
I almost find myself a wholeepisode is a little much for me.
(04:05):
Oh, no, no, no.
That's a good point.
I never watch the whole episode.
I usually watch up until toldthe news, and then I watch it and
then I'm done.
I don't know.
Like, a whole episode is alittle much for me.
Like, I'm like, okay, I'veseen this bit.
Yeah, but like, when it.
When it hits it, like, whenit's good, it's good.
Yeah.
I tend to watch it on Saturday night.
I'm usually catching up on TVfor this podcast, which we record
(04:29):
on Sunday.
I'm catching up on things onSaturday night.
And then.
So I'm watching Saturday NightLive on a delay often because I've
wrapped up whatever TV I wasgoing to catch up on, and I just
go and.
And I've got it DVR'd and Iwatch it on delay.
Like, just as far as, like,monoculture goes.
Yeah, it is kind of like oneof the last things where, like, many
different people have seen it.
(04:50):
And it's sort of astounding,the, like, quality of music that
they continually get.
Like, they're not.
Like, they're not getting,like, something super out there experimental
or, you know, sun oh is notplaying on Saturday Night Live.
And I don't.
I don't know if this mattersanymore, but, like, when.
When I was a kid growing upreally pre.
(05:10):
A lot of stuff, this was,like, where you.
This is kind of how you foundout about stuff sometimes, you know.
You know what I mean?
Where it's like, oh, like, Imean, we were joking.
But it's like Elvis Costellodid get his ass kicked off Saturday
Night Live for playing radio.
Like, they had him.
Like, David Bowie playedSaturday Night Live with, you know,
some.
Some.
I can't remember the German fella.
(05:32):
He died of aids, I believe.
But, like, it was.
It's an iconic performance.
Yeah.
Like, they've.
Over the years, they've hadsome good stuff.
Yeah, they have.
They do point me in adirection that I may not know about,
you know, with music still.
Yeah.
The most recent one, I guess Iwatched was Timothy Chamalet, and
(05:54):
he was the musical guest as well.
How sick is his girlfriend ofhearing Bob Dylan songs?
She's probably.
She and my wife could start asupport group.
He kicks into, like, Blowingin the Wind, and she's like, I'm
going to my mother's.
Call me when you're done.
Some people did not care forhim being the musical guest.
(06:18):
Before or after he.
They saw it?
Oh, after.
Really?
I actually thought he didquite a good job.
I was impressed.
I was impressed.
Yeah.
I thought he did something different.
That's good.
Kind of cool.
I liked it.
I guess it is, like, sort oflike an extended cover set.
Although I do.
It's a little different ifyou've asked someone of clearly his
(06:38):
talent.
I mean, obviously he puts inthe time and energy and work to learn
about his subject.
So I thought it was kind oflike, okay, he's.
He's done this whole Dylan thing.
He's talked about Dylan.
He's thought about Dylan a lot.
Now he's getting to do themusic, which is kind of cool.
I love that he still never met him.
I hope he never will.
Yeah.
Well, I've watched almost allof Netflix's limited series, American
(07:01):
Primeval.
Yes.
Saved.
That's about the Mormons, right?
Yes, it is.
I saved my thoughts.
Sometimes I put them on thefront end alone.
But I saved them for usbecause I'm kind of set on how I
feel.
And I'm not gonna spoilanything either.
It's written by Mark L.
Smith, who wrote the Revenant,so it's got some Western bona fides.
It's directed by actor anddirector Peter Berg, who's directed
(07:25):
everything from the originalFriday Night Lights movie to Deep
Water Horizon and just.
Oh, is that him?
Yeah.
That's great.
Okay.
I did not know that.
Big action kind of thing sometimes.
Yeah.
He's got his own style and hebrings it to this show in.
What's the word?
In spades.
(07:45):
Might not be the word, butdefinitely a lot.
Sure.
He show set in 1857 in Utahwhen, like, you mentioned Mormons
and then various settlers andthe army.
I say they, they.
They damn well near got into awar with the federal government.
Like in, like in real.
Like in real life.
Yeah, yeah.
(08:06):
And then, of course, tossingthe Native Americans who already
live there.
Sure.
And it is kind of the Utah War.
I think it's referenced as in some.
In pretty much everywhere.
It's a.
I think there's also called aMassacre on Mountain Trail, which
is a more specific aspect of this.
What.
What would be your questions?
Having not seen any of it?
Is it good or is it overly grim?
(08:29):
Oh, wow.
Do you know how.
Have you read reviews or something?
Not really.
Really?
Because it's pretty.
It's grim.
Yeah, it really is.
Especially like post likeUnforgiven or whatever.
You just have this like.
It's like Lord of the Flies inthe West.
You know what I mean?
Exactly.
And I feel like some people,it's like, come on, I've seen this
(08:53):
before and some folks do itreally well.
Like one show, I think frompast five years that did it very
well was the English, but it wasn't.
It wasn't unremitting brutality.
Another show, granted, withonly a PG or movie with only a PG13
is like Cohen's True Grit wasa little closer to the bone.
Oh, really?
(09:13):
But.
But then you get, you know,you get some of these shows and you're
like.
It's almost like what happenedwith comics post Watchmen, where
it's like the substance, likeviolence is not the same as having
anything to say.
You've noticed this about Westerns.
You're quoting only Westerns,but some Western.
I mean, other shows too, butjust some Westerns.
(09:35):
Especially post.
My understanding is, postUnforgiven, this is really a thing.
Wow, that's an insightful observation.
Oh, certainly.
Well, it wasn't entirely mine.
I get it.
I get it.
I cobbled it together.
And I do think you see this in other.
Weirdly enough, I think it'scalled the Nightingale.
(09:58):
It's a movie about Australianfrontier society, but you kind of
get the same thing with it.
Like, it is grim.
Yeah.
It's almost as if people, whenthey want to go apocalyptical and
they don't want to make adystopian apocalyptical movie or
show, they go Western.
Yes, agreed.
I wonder why that is.
(10:19):
What is it about?
It's because it's lawless.
It's.
There's the Wild west, there'sanything can happen feel to it.
Yes.
I think too, you know, there's just.
It's enough of a kind of like,primeval American myth that, like,
you start putting some stuffon the screen and it's almost like
it's shorthand.
(10:39):
You're like, oh, I can get,you know, like, I, I know how I should
feel about these folks, youknow, who actually, I, I haven't.
And this is really not goodfor American primeval.
But I would.
I would actually put it as aperfect example of not doing this.
And still it's an incredible Western.
And it feels like the end ofthe world is the Cohen's no Country
(11:01):
for Old Men, where I don'tfeel miserable watching it.
It's actually like, if yourewatch it, it's actually funny.
Yeah, but it's.
Yeah, it is grim and it isdark, but it is not so damn good.
And then there's other stuffwhere I'm like, okay, you know, it's.
It's hard to.
It's kind of like whathappened with movies post Pulp Fiction,
(11:22):
right?
Where it's like, huh?
They watch Pulp Fiction,they're like, swears the N word and
murder.
That's what makes a movie for adults.
And it's like, not, not necessarily.
They.
They.
They try and imitate itwithout understanding what's under.
That's true.
I think there's a lot of that.
There's a lot of that, and ithappens with westerns a lot.
(11:43):
Now this one, I think viewerswill watch it and, and go two directions
and there will be no middle.
They'll either love it or, orthey'll hate it.
And at first I was almostturned off by how much effort there
was by Berg to stylize hisdirection with not, not the actors,
but the.
(12:04):
Just the set pieces, theaction pieces.
But at the same time, Iunderstand the want.
Need to create a Western thatstands apart from other things.
And this is a very different tale.
I don't Know that I've everread anything or watched anything
about the Utah War?
Yeah, no, I think it's.
I think I.
I like the premise.
(12:25):
I do, too.
So it does these.
This camera work thatdistracted me at first, but I grew
to love it in a way because itwas super stylized.
But I guess I either came toaccept it or.
Or I just watched it becauseof it.
And not really.
Even in spite of that, I justkept watching.
It's like, why.
You know, that is super trickycamera work to do for our Western,
(12:47):
why they keep doing this.
And I just kept watching, butI returned to it pretty eagerly on
a nightly basis.
It's a show where everyepisode seems to get worse and worse
for the characters, and youwonder what's next.
You know, there is that.
You mentioned that.
That grim reality.
There is this.
I can't put my finger exactly what.
(13:07):
But there's this Netflix nessto it.
Okay.
And.
And it's okay.
It's fine.
Taylor Kitsch is in thismovie, and his character was a little
tropey.
Too many tropes on one guy.
Okay.
Yep.
But I felt as though he andthe rest of the cast understood their
(13:27):
characters as the episodes andfilming went on, and it got really
good.
Shea Wiggums in this.
He.
You and I know him from Perry Mason.
Yes.
The Perry Mason sidekick,though, my goodness, whatever he's
in, he elevates it.
Enjoyed him quite a bit.
He's so good.
He's perfect in whatever youwant to cast him in.
(13:48):
And he's very versatile.
He's versatile, and I don'tthink I've seen him in a Western.
I might be wrong, but he.
My God, when I saw him, Ithought, why the fuck hasn't he been
every Western 2010.
He's kind of got the face forit, doesn't he?
I mean, he's a grizzled, tired guy.
Put him in some dust.
You know, he's running his ownfort in Utah.
(14:10):
And, man, I loved his.
His performance.
Betty Gilpin is in this.
You may remember her from glow.
Yes.
She plays a.
A lady who's recently come outwest with her son.
And she's kind of the.
Dare I say, audience surrogate.
She.
She's the really fictionalpart of this story.
(14:31):
She and Taylor Kitsch's character.
But she does well.
She's.
She's a great actress.
She does really well in this.
And that's the story you kindof move along with.
There are parts of this,though, that feel like two or three
different shows at once.
Okay.
And that's going to either bein a good way or bad way for the
viewer.
Okay, you're going to.
You're going to watch this andgo, I love all of these stories.
Or you're going to watch thisand go, you know, make this cohesive.
(14:54):
Okay?
Because.
Yeah, the last time I had thatfeeling about a Western years ago
was Godless.
And for me, it was.
I do not care about.
Godless is not a Western.
That I enjoyed, folks.
And part of it was like,choose something and stick to it,
please.
Okay, Just pick one damn thing.
(15:15):
I think you would like thismovie for one performance if.
Okay, well, Shea Wiggum,obviously, but I'll give you another
one.
Okay.
If a movie or show ever needsan actor to play Satan, I'm going
to suggest Kim Coates, whoplays Brigham Young.
He looks like somebody whostepped out of 1857 and they said,
dude, jump on this next flick show.
William.
(15:36):
Apparently he was in Sons ofAnarchy, which makes a whole lot
of sense.
Yeah, I liked it.
I've got one episode to go.
This does set me up for.
We got a comment on our site,the Alabama take for our last podcast
episode, where I mentionedAmerican Primeval briefly at the
beginning, and it was from 87Jedi, our regular listener.
(15:56):
Yeah, I always want to givehim credit.
He said he's a regular.
He said, favorite part of thisepisode, talking about our podcast
episode, and he mentions it'sbecause he's so far behind on Severance
was that Blaine mentions thecriminally underrated Shea Wiggum.
His performance as Jim Bridgeris one of the many highlights of
American Primeval, and he'sbeen great as one of Jeff Nichols
(16:16):
main guys who is a son of ananarchy guy.
That's.
Am I right about that?
Yeah, I think so.
Although my personal favoriteShea Wiggin performance is Ray and
Vice principles.
Hilarious, man.
I haven't thought about thatone for a minute.
Yeah, he is so good.
I would love to see him castas a vice principal.
You know that he plays, ofcourse, like a.
(16:39):
A stepdad figure.
Yeah, yeah.
But it's so funny if he wouldhave been a Vice, but funny as.
Anyway, he says, lookingforward to hearing further American
Primeval discussion.
I binge watched the entireseries in two sittings because I
really enjoyed it.
All right.
That's quite the.
That's quite the endorsement.
He and I, he and I, he and ushave a lot of similar taste when
(17:01):
it comes to shows.
So, yeah, if he's suffered in.
Through as many episodes ofthis as I know he's suffering through.
I'll make another.
And this is kind of linked,but I didn't think about it until
you started talking aboutAmerican Primeval.
And I do think, you know, you,you, you have said a couple times
that in Severance it remindsyou of Scientology.
(17:23):
And I agree there is some.
But I was watching this lastepisode and thinking it actually
kind of reminds me ofMormonism in the sense that.
And I do not mean this in a.
In a negative or, or any wayagainst the religion of the latter,
you know, Church of JesusChrist, Latter Day Saints.
But it reminded me so much ofhow Mormonism is really the.
(17:47):
An American religion, like,religious movement that came 100%
out of America.
And I feel like, especiallywith a lot of the paintings of Kier,
that they are pulling on veryAmerican iconography to create this
very American.
So I was like, I wonder ifsomeone old Severance HQ has done
(18:09):
a little thinking about this.
Much like the Western is apure, almost purely American cinema
experience.
Even.
Even other genres that like,adapt it or.
So I'm thinking of Kurosawa'sexcellent Yojimbo, which is just,
you know, which got turnedinto basically, yeah, you know, the
Clint Eastwood movies.
(18:30):
But, but, you know, it's,it's, it's referencing the Western
the whole time while stillbeing a fantastic samurai movie.
Yeah, it's a lot like the blues.
And then the British Invasionborrowed the blues and then the Americans
came back to the roots of theblues, which is silly.
There were times where Ithought American Primeval didn't
(18:50):
have something to say, but Ithink it does.
That's what I always kind ofwonder about when it's like something
that is iconic, like aWestern, something that allows you
to have like, you know, sex,violence, etc.
Lets you go full Lord of the Flies.
But are you just saying, youknow what?
People are pretty shitty toeach other most of the times.
Because, friend, I alreadyknew that.
(19:13):
Yeah, I can turn my TV on to cnn.
I already knew that.
You know.
Yeah.
But do you have something more with.
Your idea of probably truth, Ishouldn't say idea that Mormonism
is the true American religion,began in America.
You know, that's.
That's not original with me.
That's.
So I think of sociology of religion.
(19:33):
No, that's okay.
I was just gonna say that I.
Think that kind of brings that up.
American probably might evenbe playing with.
That a little interesting.
Yeah, if so, that's.
Then it does have something to say.
If not, eh, it's still prettyfun to watch, I think, even in its
Brutality.
That's kind of all we can atthe end of the day.
It's nice when somethingreally speaks to you, but if it was
(19:56):
just fun to watch, that's awin, too.
Yeah, it is.
You know, there's so much crapout there, it's hard to make something
that people actually enjoy.
So.
Yeah.
Still got that Netflix imprint somehow.
Yeah, I know what you mean.
Like, it's got.
It's almost.
But it's.
Get away from that a little.
It's almost like I kept askingmyself, can I see this somewhere
besides Netflix?
Could I see this air?
(20:17):
I think I could see it onApple tv.
Okay.
They do have.
And I think it's coming fromtheir business side.
Honestly, I.
They have a house style, and Ithink it's.
It's not on the side of art.
You know, the episode Iwatched this morning, I said to myself,
I couldn't see this on hbo,but I could see it on Apple.
Okay, so it's some.
There you go.
There's where it lands.
Is it.
(20:38):
Does it rise above someNetflix stuff?
I think so.
Does it rise as high as theBest of hbo?
No, he doesn't.
But, hey, there you go.
You're paying for Netflix anyway.
Might as well watch it.
You know, Emily Vanderwerff.
I just remembered this once.
The TV critic EmilyVanderwerff once made an awesome
point about Net, and this wasearly Netflix, but I think it still
(20:59):
stands.
And I think this speaks tosome of this where she said, you
know, she was talking about,like, versus, like a Mad Men or Breaking
Bad or something on hbo.
Just like those shows areaiming for it for, like, A's, and
when they hit it out of thepark, they're A pluses.
Whereas, like, a Netflix show,a lot of times they're happy to hit
a B.
Yeah.
(21:20):
So when they hit it out of thepark, it's a B plus, not an A plus.
And I think.
I think she's really correctabout that.
And I think that comes from the.
The business side and thewriting and the directing.
Yep.
We're getting a little in the weeds.
This is the kind of thing Ireally try to avoid on our podcast.
It's a little bit too muchinside baseball kind of thing.
But I will say this.
(21:41):
Netflix, when they buy thingsand they don't produce it themselves,
tend to be a lot better.
Yes.
I would also agree with that.
Well, you know, I was talkingabout Apple plus there.
We'll segue into non spoilerstill, by the way, just for a second
or two.
I say I don't know how much Icannot spoil anymore in this show.
True.
Talking about the fifthepisode of Severance titled Trojan's
(22:03):
Horse, let's just.
I will.
I will say this as a completenon spoiler, but maybe it'll set
us up to get into spoilersafter the break.
The episode was kind of table setting.
But Severance is high qualityenough at this point that even their
midpoint episode isn't a boreor chore.
Yes, it comes off a highstakes episode and you don't expect
(22:26):
everything to be a high or you shouldn't.
I would say it's actually badif everything is a high.
Well, everybody got really spoiled.
Or with Breaking Bad, everyepisode is just dizzy with.
With expectation.
But I did like this one.
It's not a board, so I'll chore.
I liked it and I was always.
Interested for my non spoiler.
(22:48):
I'll say I got to the end ofthe episode, realized the episode
was ending and thought tomyself, is it already over?
Yeah, I did too.
Which is a compliment.
You love that kind of feeling.
Yeah, you do.
You know it in these days,Apple ends them and gives you a little
extra at the.
At the end.
(23:08):
I love that.
And.
And I'm appreciative of it.
But that happened to here andI thought, my God, there's so much
time left.
Oh, wait.
Yeah, it's the little bonus.
Let's take a break for spoilers.
30 seconds.
We're back with spoilers allwe got in spoiler section.
(24:53):
This week's the fifth episodeof Severance titled Trojan's Horse.
So if you haven't seen, ifyou're not that far, maybe even if
you haven't watched some ofseason two, you might want to take
a break, come back to us andwe'll welcome you with open arms
right here.
Check your time stamps and youcan always come back.
Yeah, Donovan.
We, we.
Oh, we got an email related to this.
(25:13):
So I say we got a comment andan email.
This is crazy.
This is from Tim.
Tim from SETI Bimco, whom Imentioned to you guys on Mike.
Yes, very kind guys.
They're practically friends of ours.
He says, in reference to thefourth episode of Separates, he says
that.
Actually I keep calling it thesnow episode in my head.
(25:35):
They're all snow episodes.
This one more so.
Yeah, Lowe's Hollow is thename he to be talking about here.
He says if episode four ofSeverance was not a virtual reality
type situation, we had tospend the rest of the show dealing
with sexual assault.
I guess it's sexual assault,even if it was in their heads.
But it leaves me with an extrafeeling of.
(25:55):
And he.
Paul says dread about theshow, which is as it should be.
But also yuck.
Any heli is basically violatedby two people.
Or I think she.
He means violates two people.
I think that's what he means.
Those are my thoughts.
To add your great thoughtsabout the show.
I enjoyed listening.
And that's from Tim,specifically from Seti Bimko.
(26:16):
He says Tim without George.
Thanks Tim.
Yeah, thanks Tim.
I.
I think he's picked up onsomething that was extended this
episode and I am kind ofliking which is that any heli is
at war.
It continues to be at war withher Audi self.
You forget that in thisseason, don't you?
Yes, you do.
But then when it kind of comesback just again the quite like the
(26:37):
nature of personhood, youknow, like is any Henny of heli a
full person?
Is Audi heli a full person?
Or are they.
Are they each less of a personbecause they're separated from each
other?
It's funny that we evenquestioned if that was her Audi down
there in the office becausewhen you see any Hilly the mule.
(27:00):
She's doing a good job.
She's doing such a great job.
And when you say she's doing agood job.
Yeah.
You think to yourself, man,I'm glad she's back.
It's funny how she in someways is playing her like mannerisms.
Ish.
The same way that that AdamScott's character does where it's
just.
(27:21):
And to have the contrast islike when she was her Audi.
She is much.
She's much more reserved and you.
And you don't realize thatuntil you see her any who is much
more outgoing.
She want.
You know and she's.
She's thinking of others.
Right.
She.
She's tuned into theiremotional states as opposed to like
(27:41):
you know the.
The Audi heli really kind ofdoesn't give a.
She's using people as we sawin the last episode.
She's using these people.
Audi, Helena.
We could even Helena.
Yeah, that's thank you show bythe way for.
Yeah.
You know it does give us anice Heliar versus Helena.
Helena is strict.
(28:02):
Like they want everyone inLumen to be no kindness, no joy.
Have this affectation.
And she's got it.
I'm assuming naturally bybeing an Egan and you just want to
shake her by the shoulders andsay stop being so uptight.
(28:23):
Yes.
So I mean it's.
It's an easy thing.
Right.
But Even her hairstyle.
Right.
With, like, the hair drawn back.
We did see a little of thereserve crack, which I thought was
interesting.
And then she's like, I'm notgoing back in there.
Oh, yeah, you know they'retrying to kill me.
Yes.
The gays.
They're trying to kill me.
(28:44):
She's like, my innie is tryingto kill me.
Yeah.
Fascinating.
They're monsters.
Like, I've got this thinginside me that's a monster and that.
You know, we've talked aboutthis in various ways, so forgive
us for being redundant, butthere is probably a part of us, the
lizard brain in all of us,that really just operates to survive
or kill.
(29:05):
Yes.
You know, mine is that itcan't survive without ice cream every
three days.
Just barrels of it.
And that will kill me.
What the hell's wrong with mylizard brain There?
That's going to kill me.
That's my.
That's my innie.
I suppose that's your innie.
Yeah, yeah.
Or my version of the innie.
And that's what she's getting at.
She says, irv tried to kill me.
She doesn't call him by name.
(29:26):
Yeah.
She says, there's another onedown there trying to kill me now.
I'm not going back.
I'm really interested how thisshow avoids being kind of like Dr.
Jekyll and Mr.
Hyde with.
For at least, in my opinion,at least two of the characters, their
innies, from what we've seen,are better and more exemplary people
(29:47):
than their outies.
So instead of this being justlike, oh, it's the darkness bottled
up inside all of you.
I think Dylan and Helly, Ilike them.
We haven't seen enough toreally know, but I like them better
as the people they are inside.
Lumen.
Exactly.
Of course you do.
Yeah, that's the idea.
It's really doing somethingwith, like, the subconscious more
(30:09):
than just like, okay, well,your ID can get loose and destroy
everything, you know?
Yeah, good point.
Beautiful angles for shooting.
Once again, used here to remind.
Yeah, I think it was.
Was the director, Sam Donovan.
It is.
I didn't know.
I.
I was wondering if it was Ben.
And then we got Stand.
Yeah.
(30:30):
I'm on first name basis withhim and I thought he also did an
excellent.
An excellent job of directing.
Yeah.
There's nothing in here thatno one else is going to pick up on.
Sometimes I wonder when I jotdown a thing or two about the show,
I think everyone's gonnanotice this, but I just want to point
it out because it's in thereto remind the viewer subconsciously
(30:52):
or consciously of the story.
So it's there when Hellychecks on Mark in the bathroom.
And there are two of her,thanks to a mirror, and only one
of him.
And that.
And then there's anotherreally nice one.
It's a line between Mark andMilchick later in the elevator where
he is.
He's getting into his personal space.
And that.
That line is thin.
It's a literal thin line.
(31:13):
And it.
He crosses the thin line.
I thought there was a.
Another bit that I liked wasjust Ms.
Swang and Mr.
Milchick speaking to eachother and literally speaking past
each other.
It was like.
It was so much that.
It was like.
Because, you know, they'retalking and you're supposed to think
(31:34):
it's face to face, but the waythat the camera holds, they're not.
You can't necessarily tell ifthey are talking face to face.
Oh, that's good.
Yeah.
Well, I didn't pick up on that.
It was just another thingwhere I was like.
It wasn't so obvious that it distracted.
But as I.
The more I've watched it, themore I liked it.
And of course, I'm enjoyingthe acting of all of you know, what
(31:56):
I'm enjoying about thedirecting is that it's underscoring
and amplifying the acting.
And I think that's really noteasy to do.
Right.
Yeah.
It's not gonna throw anythingat you that most people aren't picking
up on.
So our job here is relatively easy.
Yes.
Ms.
Wang's out to get Milchick,isn't she?
(32:16):
Let's just say she kind ofseems to have given him a vote of
no confidence after.
After last episode.
Stop using those big words, Milchick.
Yeah, those were.
That was hilarious.
That's a good one.
She was.
She put in those complaints.
Oh, of course.
Yeah, of course.
She.
And she could, probablybecause she's pissed off that he
wouldn't let her play thetheremin at the funeral.
(32:39):
Of course, Lumen.
Lumen's musical instrument ofchoice is a theremin and not a violin
or guitar.
It just.
It does like, the.
The show does such a good job of.
Of maintaining that.
Funny.
Where, like, they're actually arguing.
But Milchick, she's like, I practice.
Milchick's like, you can playfor me later.
Which he probably never brings up.
(33:00):
He doesn't give a shit.
Again.
Yeah, man.
You just.
I just love Tillman'sperformance as Milchick.
Absolutely.
There's a lot going on with that.
Guy, I like how much and Ithink this episode you picked up
on it.
Okay.
In an earlier episode with hisreaction when he gets the paintings
and, and the wave that he kindof shares a moment with.
(33:23):
I believe it's Natalie.
Natalie, Natalie.
And I think we're.
He is doing such a good job.
Like, if you like just, youknow, do you watch the first season
or whatever?
We watch one episode with thisguy and it's like he's holding back.
Of course.
But like, I think that there'slike depths of how much he is holding
(33:43):
back.
I agree with that.
You know, and we start to seeit again with his reaction, his questions
to Natalie about the paintingsand honestly his decision to get
physically challenging Mark.
Because we've never seen thisside of him before.
Huh.
Yet, yet.
We're not seeing anger yetfrom really like anger or maybe rage.
(34:08):
We're seeing anger, but itfeels applied very precisely.
We're not seeing any loss of control.
This guy is possibly heldtogether by God knows what.
And when he blows up, I wonderwhat's going to happen.
He's simmering.
That's exactly.
He's got, he's got a lot goingagainst him right now.
(34:28):
But like you said, there'ssuch depth to it because he's also
lonely and desperate to talkto someone about this painting situation.
Yes.
And there's this thing where he's.
You can almost see that he'ssaying, look, I know we're not the
stand in for every blackemployee, but this happened to you.
(34:51):
I'm the only person I knowit's happened to.
We're both in the minoritywith being black as well as being
a minority and having thepaintings given to us.
Let's talk about this.
And she doesn't say anything.
She gives him a look.
She has a moment again.
She has another moment whereit's like, I read her look this time
as I can't talk to you about this.
(35:12):
That'S exactly what I.
How I read it too.
So there's.
I wish that they could justget away from the office, go have
a drink, get the, get theearbuds out of their ear.
No one's listening.
No one's talking.
And just, just hash this out.
Yeah, I enjoyed this little.
Maybe it's not a subplot too,but just this additional layer for
(35:33):
Milcheck is like he's athinking, feeling, living human being.
And you can see that like yousaid, he wants.
He's almost desperate to makethis connection because he's so isolated
in so many other Ways.
Yeah.
He's a lonesome guy.
And then his performancereview makes him feel and look even
(35:57):
more desolate.
I like how they give you alittle book afterwards with lecture.
That's so accurate.
That was so summary.
That was so good.
You get like a little bookshowing just how mad they are at
you.
Yeah.
Perfect.
So, so passive aggressive in.
In the corporate.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
(36:18):
Can you imagine having a jobwhere you got a performance review,
like a two to six hourperformance review every month?
I'd lose my mind.
Yeah.
To order out for lunch.
I try.
Yeah.
I wouldn't be there.
Yes.
And you gotta think he's not severed.
So is he there?
He just believes in the Churchof Egan, whatever it happens to be.
(36:39):
You know, he wants Keira'slight to follow you.
Whatever is he.
That's a good.
I mean.
And we don't know enough yetto be like, is he a true believer?
Is the money just too good?
You know, it's got to be the money.
Maybe.
I mean, he.
What we know so far is he hasbeen loyal to the company, obviously,
(36:59):
but he is not Harmony Cobell.
And he's said that a couple times.
And he wants a couple, and hewants to do things differently.
And he's taking flack forthat, for being his own person, basically.
They basically are like,you're treating these people with
empathy because, you know, thecompany's answer to the question
(37:20):
that we've raised severaltimes is severed employees are not
people.
Right.
They're called in a weed.
The Enni is not a full human being.
Treating them like a fullhuman being obscures what they are.
Yep.
Well, speaking of characters,I'm truly glad we got to see Irv
as soon as we do.
(37:41):
Yeah.
I was a little worried he'd be.
Out for the whole episode ortwo or three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I'm glad we got to see him andwhat he's up to, if only because
John Turturro is fantastic.
I can't wait to see this weirdquasi Menageritwois.
He's going into Bert andFields, so.
(38:02):
He'S being watched byChristopher Walken.
Of course.
It's excellent to rope himback in.
I'm glad that happened.
He was.
I saw sideline credits and I'mlike, he's coming back today.
Okay.
Yeah, yeah.
He was sidelined for a minuteand he was watching Irv make a phone
call.
We don't know who the phonecall is.
No.
Now, here's the real questionbehind the question.
(38:24):
If that opening scene issomeone gathering surgical tools
to fix Irv.
Do something with Irv since hegot fired.
What's Irv up to with thephone call or does that mean he did
not get fixed at all or.
Or whatever.
Good question.
(38:44):
And why are they whistling?
Edmund Fitzgerald, our.
Our co host and fellow.
Adam was joking about howquickly he tuned into that, but I
was probably like too into it.
I was like, Adam Morrow wrote this.
It's now that.
That's a song about a.
One of the biggest ships inthe Great Lakes and Lake Superior
(39:06):
and that sank.
Yep.
Is it a nod?
This is a.
You know, Adam mentioned.
Do you see Michigan?
I see Minnesota.
Yeah.
Is it something like that?
The Great north there?
Feels like it, doesn't it?
A little bit.
I don't know why.
I think whistling that's avery specific song choice.
Who knows.
And we never see his face.
Never see his face.
(39:27):
That could be just one ofthose things that, you know, you
don't see other people's faceswho aren't that important.
Could be a red herring.
Could be.
Right, right.
Who's he using those tools on?
Is it implied it's herbs.
Any.
I don't know.
I don't know either.
That could be Helly.
I don't know.
(39:47):
Speaking of characters whoaren't important, we got Rick and
back giving this.
Giving this episode its name.
The Trojan's horse.
Yeah.
Well, what's up with that?
So you have thoughts on thetitle coming from his quote about
trying to get his book in with them?
Yeah.
Well, for.
For one thing I thought it wasa great joke just with Rickon's character
(40:08):
where he's like almost but notquite correct.
It's like you don't call it aTrojan's horse.
It's the Trojan because it.
It's not the Trojan's horse,it's the Greek's horse.
Right, right.
You know, so he.
He inverts it and I kind ofwonder if we're meant to be thinking
about the ways that Heli isand some of the other and.
(40:29):
And Irv are.
If we're supposed to thinkabout them as.
Are they the.
Are they the Trojans horses?
Especially in a way in the waythat like Helly has been both where
she was as her innie coming toon the stage and saying what she
did and then as her Audimasquerading as her innie.
(40:52):
It's a very another choicethere because they used it as the
title.
I really wanted to point.
Or it could mean nothing.
I don't know.
Well, no, I felt that feltpretty significant.
It does.
Yeah.
Rick and his.
His book continues to make mecrack up.
Like, it's.
And they do.
Somebody did such a good jobof getting, like, a sense of, like,
(41:14):
late 19th, early 20th century.
Like, managerial.
Like.
Like.
Like writings.
Like.
Like the people who.
I can't remember their namesnow, but these are the guys who pioneered,
like, efficiency.
Right.
Efficiency.
Efficiency.
Efficiency.
Above all.
Somebody just nails the toneof that writing with his.
(41:34):
Yeah.
In his writing.
I thought that was really good.
It was.
I laughed out loud, like, agood solid chuckle at the funeral
quote where Dylan mentions thetoner and he says, but I did take
a sip of the flavor because I forgot.
I thought that was.
I chuckled aloud.
(41:54):
I didn't see that coming.
Dylan remains very good.
I also, you know, just.
The show keeps.
Does have that sense of humor still.
Like, when he finishes andMilcheck goes nose.
A little sugar with your usual salt.
Yeah.
It's just so even.
He notices it.
Yeah.
It's so good.
Mark's.
(42:14):
Mark's anger and distance fromHaley is very real.
You know, I have had.
Yeah, I guess possible datesor girlfriends in the past where
I would think, well, that Ican't trust them anymore, so I just
better cut them off.
That's the way to go.
I think it's in an addition.
Dole twist is.
It's right.
Like, she literally has no idea.
(42:37):
One of our last real memoriesas any would have been kissing him,
maybe.
Is that right?
Yep.
So she has no idea what happened.
And it's obviously too painfulfor him to broach.
And, like, even, you know,Dylan was kind of starting to throw
some bombs that way, evenwith, like, you know, Miss.
Is it Clavel?
I can't, you know, like, she'syour Harmony Cobell.
(42:59):
Oh, no, no, no.
Sorry.
The person that.
What is his.
What is his wife's name?
Adam Scott's characters.
Gemma.
It's something with a C.
Anyway, he kind of startsthrowing that stuff out there.
Yeah.
It's obviously, like, the lastthing in the world he.
Like, he's too.
It's too painful to talkabout, but it's too painful to ignore.
So what do you do?
(43:20):
Distance yourself.
Yeah.
Then the episode ends with himseeing his wife again in some sort
of.
What would you call it?
Hallucination?
Dream, or maybe real?
There in the hallway wherehe's allowed the lady who does the
reintegration.
(43:41):
She did it for Petey.
She's doing it for Mark.
He's allowing her to live withhim, much like Petey did there in
the basement.
I think that's one aspect ofthe show.
I'm a little.
What's the word?
Tired is too strong of a word.
I'm a little over.
I'm a little ready to move on from.
Is him seeing Gemma's face inareas of his life?
(44:02):
Sure.
You know, I think that oneneeds to have some sort of answer.
Nothing definite, but that's.
We've got the question ofwho's Irv calling on the payphone.
You know, it feels like we'vegot enough questions floating.
We can answer one or two now.
Keep us.
Get us off the hook.
Yeah.
With the Gemma thing.
(44:22):
Something about that is not asappealing to me as some of the other
questions are floating.
Do you want to send us offthis week with your version of the
Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald showing?
Yeah.
It's a play on a kazoo.
That would be a theremin.
A theremin.
That would be great.
(44:42):
Yeah.
That's the end of our podcast episode.
We would love it if you go toour home south, the Alabama Take,
and subscribe to the newsletter.
If you'd like or subscribe tous, you can go.
Each of our podcasts under theAlabama Take has their own page and
you can go.
There's a list of podcast apps.
It's easy to subscribe.
Or you can leave us a commentjust like that was done this week.
(45:04):
We'll respond.
We'll read it here if.
If it fits perfectly, and theyusually do.
We can't guarantee that it'snot our.
Any reading these comments forDonald, for Adam, who will be back
next week.
We appreciate your time.
We'll talk to you all next week.
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