March 25, 2025 • 61 mins
This week, we dive deep into emotional waters of our podcast as we first dedicate the episode to the memory of Lauren Beck, a vibrant young writer whose spirit and words brightened our community (0:01).
To begin, we touch base on 'Dope Thief' from Apple TV+ and its third episode, but it's covered in the non-spoiler section for those who are still deciding about the series (3:14).
Also in non-spoilers, we cover quick thoughts on 'The White Lotus' and its fifth episode (04:48) and 'Severance,' with its final episode of the season (7:23).
After the break, 'The White Lotus' gives us plenty to discuss about emotions, resentments, and revelations in the fifth episode (10:23. With 'Severance,' it's even more as we reflect humor, heartbreak, and the season as a whole (31:06).
If you like what you hear and want more, there's always The Alabama Take site.
You can also donate here with Stripe or here with Buy Me a Coffee to ensure the site and podcasts continue.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Before I do the usualintroduction to our podcast, I'd
like for you to take a littlebit and hear what I have to say.
To begin, the podcasts in ourfamily of podcasts come from the
site the Alabama Take, whichis a culture site from Alabama or
even Alabama adjacent folkswith musings and of course, podcasts.
(00:21):
This week, for the first timein our short history, one of our
own passed away.
The young lady is Lauren begg.
She was 23.
Although Lauren faced fourserious hospital visits already this
year, she had beautiful plansfor what she called her Jordan Year.
She wrote about thoseendeavors on the site and even had
(00:43):
a regular column on theAlabama Take.
She was as sweet as herwritings likely lead you to believe.
I'm going to miss regularemails from Lauren Talk let me know
she had another essay or bookreview ready for the site.
I'd like to dedicate thisepisode to Lauren, her memory and
any avid young reader andwriter to those who aren't afraid
(01:04):
to put themselves out there.
Second, I offer the warmest ofthanks to Ms.
Brenda, a lady whom I do notknow but kindly made a donation to
this site via the podcast andthe donation page.
Ms.
Brenda wrote to us the briefmessage Please accept this donation
in honor of Lauren Beck, whowill live on in our hearts forever.
(01:27):
Thank you.
I like that this lady foundappreciation of the site and what
the site does to perhaps givea home to young and old writers who
may be developing their voicesor may have established their voice
already, but share it in ourcommunal atmosphere, which is what
(01:47):
we hope to present at ourwebsite and with our podcast.
Thank you again Belinda.
Lastly, if you're interestedin writing anything for the Alabama
Tag, take a look around thesite and see if you like what you
see or if you have a podcastidea you can pitch it to us.
We can be reachedeasily@thealabama takemail.com Lauren,
(02:10):
we know you're out there, sotake care and help us keep reading
and writing and trying to beas kind as you are.
Hey everyone, thanks fortuning down to Taking it down.
We are a working class TV andstreaming podcast.
No inside Hollywood stuff andwe get no screeners.
(02:30):
I'm the host Blaine.
Joining me soon will be theother two hosts, Adam and Donovan.
Their personal expertise ofyears as a musician and as a information
specialist respectively.
Give a lot to each episode.
If you like what we do or ifany our brother and sister podcasts
have your attention as well,or if you like the writings on the
(02:50):
site, you can click ondonation via the site and feel free
to give us any help you'd liketo give.
With that, here are Adam andDonovan, Alabama tape projection.
(03:12):
Hey guys.
Hey guys.
I mentioned at the top of theepisode before you two came in that
our episode today is in memoryof Lauren Bett, who loved contributing
to the website and herthoughts on books was just a fun
thing I always look forward to.
She'd even throw in anoccasional football or basketball
(03:33):
thought at us.
She'll be definitely missed.
Her emails were always fun.
But as we do with everyepisode, we're gonna start with ideas
that won't spoil TV shows or movies.
But this case it's just two TVshows, no spoilers.
Then more detailed stuff onthe back half.
So last week I did bring upthe new Apple TV plus show Dope Thief.
(03:59):
Yeah, that's the one starringBrian Tyre Henry and Wagner Mura,
who they've gotten themselvesin a bit of a pickle.
A quandary if you will.
The third episode.
It's not one we'll run down ina spoiler section, but I just noted
it's still high quality seriesthrough three.
Some of that most recentepisode had some tension that began
(04:21):
as kind of manufactured alittle, or at least felt that way.
But then the back half hadthis tautness that was really organic,
tightly done in those scenesand just the ones right after Brian
Tyree Henry did what seems tocome natural to him at this point.
He's got these funny anddeeper moments, but at the same time
really intense with thetension and fear.
(04:43):
If anybody's interested inthat little rundown on it, let's
jump into things we've all,well, most of us have seen.
So.
Donovan.
Donovan.
What an introduction.
Just throw him under the bus there.
You know, you make a bed, youlie in it.
He didn't do his homework.
The White Lotus hits its apexto me thus far with the fifth episode,
(05:05):
Full Moon Party, I'd saythat's in part of the is the variations
of vacationers at the WhiteLotus Resort and Thailand are finally
being really mixed and matchedand it's like they're put into Saxon's
blender of protein shakes.
It's like they all had a fullmoon fever.
Am I right?
Yeah.
Hey, I wondered about that title.
(05:27):
Yeah, My White plays with allsorts of different personalities
and even brings in a littlebit more of a surprise.
Full Moon Party had to be veryfun to construct and it shows with
the actors.
I think you had to pause there.
You said full moon party.
Fever.
Fever's in your head now.
Well, I'm pretty Used tosaying full Moon Fever.
(05:49):
Yeah, I thought this was agreat episode.
I thought it delivered.
You know, last week I said onthe program that we seem to be hitting
our stride, and I felt likethey just handed the baton off and
went off at a good trot.
It was a great episode.
Classic White Lotus episode.
I think we were lukewarm onthe start of the season.
(06:10):
And without spoiling anything,I think if we were to watch immediately
an episode from season oneafter seeing the episode that we
just saw of season three, itwould be shocking how much bigger
the show has gotten.
I mean, I think they're nowseeing everything play out from Mike
White's brain.
(06:31):
I think the ambition is there,you know what I mean?
To not only kind of continueto use this very successful formula,
but.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's.
It's paying off.
I wouldn't be surprised if wecame back at the end of this season
and said that it had some ofthe best White Lotus episodes overall.
It just floundered in, like,the first episode, maybe a little
(06:52):
of the second.
Yeah, I think it was more likemaybe they could have been condensed
into one.
I think we've said that.
I think that's what you'regetting at.
I would be interested, afterall is said and done, to rewatch
in sequence and see if I feelthe same way.
Maybe some of the.
This is one of the first,like, dependably big names of the
year to come back.
(07:12):
You know, we kind of had itcircled coming into 2025.
White Lotus back in Februaryor early whatever, late January,
whatever it was.
Maybe the anticipation.
Yeah.
Got us there.
We had Severance circled as well.
That's where we're going.
Non spoilers.
Don't worry.
It makes its bow for season two.
And, you know, there's not alot we'll say here.
(07:33):
It's been a great season, wellfilmed, better acted than its previous
season, which was still high.
Interesting ideas.
Go watch both seasons on Apple tv.
Plus, when you do come backhere, use our time steps and go straight
to the spoiler section.
I would encourage our viewersto write in our listeners to write
in to us and tell us whyyou're getting severed.
(07:56):
Do you want to share?
You want to open the floor?
Oh, I think I'm gettingsevered so that I don't have to hear
another Taylor Swift song again.
Not that I don't like TaylorSwift, but my wife listens to things
very deeply and narrowly.
You're getting severed fromyour wife is what you're telling
us when you've heard.
When you've heard bad blood500,000 times, you get.
(08:17):
You're like, maybe there'sother songs in the world.
I don't know.
Think of the hell.
No matter what, I'm puttinghim in.
Yeah, right.
You.
You only click to life whenfill in the blank artist comes in.
Who would that artist.
I mean, Blaine has Bob Dylan.
Who do you have?
Donovan.
That.
That would actually be a.
That.
That would be a pleasure.
A utopia.
(08:38):
It's a good question.
It's a good question.
It's a good question.
There's first two Pixies albums.
Really?
David Bowie.
Oh, I love.
And Surfer Rosa.
Love it.
Could have guessed David Bowie.
I didn't guess that, Adam.
You started it.
You know, the tragedy would bethat if.
If this technology justswitched on as soon as one of these
(08:58):
songs started playing, thenyou would never get to experience
it.
That's right.
You didn't.
Well, you never knew it.
Well, he's having it now.
He has made the decision tospecifically sever himself from fill
in the blank artist.
And yours is.
I mean, it's got to be betweenyou two and the clientele for the
enjoyment, for the utopia.
That's what.
That's what I think.
(09:18):
But what if I never got todrive on a nice spring day and listen
to the clientele again?
Well, maybe your Audi does aversion of you.
Yeah, that's right.
Too complex for this section.
Let's give everyone a breakand then on the other side, we'll
do spoilers for the WhiteLotus and separates, in that order.
Do you love music?
(09:40):
Do you want to explore classic albums?
If you answered yes, thencheck out Polyphonic Press.
I'm Jeremy and along with myco host John.
We rely on the patented RandomAlbum generator to pick an album
for us to review at the top ofeach show.
We have no idea what albumwe're going to be listening to.
(10:01):
That's what keeps it really exciting.
We dig real deep into these albums.
So if this sounds interesting,come along with us on this journey
because you never know whatyou might find.
We release a new episode everyTuesday morning.
That's Polyphonic Press, andwe're available on every podcast
platform.
(10:22):
All right, we're back.
Let's start with the spoilersection of the fifth episode of the
White Lotus, which is FullMoon Party.
And boy, there's plenty tospoil in this one.
Tim seems to be the guy withthe gun.
Gay talk is too milquetoast todemand it back.
The Russians love to party.
It's a big surprise that's thebiggest spoiler.
(10:42):
Wait, Russians like to party.
The party on the boat turnsinto some high reverie.
And most importantly, Rickmakes it to Bangkok to hang out with
old pal Frank, who's played bythe always fun Sam Rockwell.
Let's just run it down a little.
Let's do it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Tim from the podcast Seti Bimko.
(11:04):
Not Tim on the show.
Tim writes to us this week and he.
He had an excellent point.
So good.
I just wanted to kick myselffor not seeing it.
He says, I've been enjoyingwhat the show White Lotus has to
say.
Yeah, I'm tired of Tim sittingaround with a blank face.
But this season's capturingwhat it's like to get old and pine
for a bit of the old days.
(11:24):
Our three girlfriends were outdancing with the young crowd, convincing
themselves they could stillhave fun.
And we have Rick's friend whowishes that maybe he was a young
Asian girl.
When.
When Greg's girlfriend tellsus she likes getting naked in front
of young men because theyshake and you can see their little
hearts beating, I was like,yes, I remember that.
(11:45):
I remember shaking as well.
Yeah.
Well, that's a good emailright there from Tim.
That's pretty good.
You know, he pointed out this.
One of the motifs of thisseason is aging, you know, and that's
a.
I just can't believe I didn'tsee that one.
As I age myself, it's abounds.
I didn't notice because I amyoung and will remain young forever.
(12:08):
So keep going.
Yeah, no, no sense bearing thelead here.
This episode exploded for mebecause, hey, when you need a one
on one with Walton Goggins,you gotta, you gotta give him somebody
who can duke it out with himline by line.
And you bring in Sam Rockwell.
It's what you do.
He's great.
He's absurdly hilarious inmost of his roles and it's what he
(12:30):
did here.
I mean, you're going straightto it.
Yeah.
For this one I am, yeah.
Yeah.
I said I was gonna run it down.
This is the Walton Gogginsshow for you.
Yeah, I'm a fan.
Yeah.
I'm a pretty big fan of his.
Yes.
Straight to the.
You're going straight todessert here is what you're doing.
Uh huh.
I hate that I did not watchthe Amazon prime show about the fallout.
(12:53):
Was it called Fallout Fallout?
Yeah.
He supposedly plays acharacter who's.
He gets to play him in makeupsometimes and not make up some.
If I understand.
But yeah.
Anyway, I'm a fan.
Are we Going straight to the conversation.
Is it happening?
Let's do it.
I mean, Frank's revelationabout himself exposes how nearly
(13:15):
everyone on the show has noclue who they really are to their
detriment.
Yeah, I think Frank.
Frank asked the tough question.
Once you start staring intothe void that is that monologue,
everyone else around him, notaround him, because he's.
He hasn't met Piper, you know,he doesn't know that she's also going
through a.
(13:35):
Would be spiritual awakeningor say the women who were trying
to reconnect with their youthin a way, in each other and all these
things.
And here you have a guy like,really, really doing the work.
You know what I mean?
I mean, it's like asking,could I be an Asian girl?
Running down every indulgentfantasy that every character on the
(13:58):
show has indulged in in some way.
Right.
And so there's nothing left.
And then actually changing asa result.
You know, there's no.
Like, the Buddhism of it is not.
Somebody online pointed out, Idon't know, that he.
He may have been.
If he had had this crash outin a mostly Christian society or
mostly.
Whatever society he may haveturned to, whatever religion helped
(14:21):
him frame his need to recover.
You know, I think Buddhismfits it the best.
But I don't know.
It was like the work there.
The story is insane and thebest bit of the show so far.
But the actual work is notfun, not luxurious, not a hang at
the White Lotus.
(14:41):
The ease with which Rockwell delivers.
The ease and friendliness.
Like, this guy gets it andthen he just spills all this out.
And then we get Walton Goggins response.
He's not quite weirded out asmuch as like, shit, I need to process
this for a minute.
He just gets that look, youknow, I think we can describe his
performance there as a GIF factory.
(15:04):
I mean, we are now.
Which one?
Goggins.
We are now just loaded downwith reaction gifts for years to
come.
Gifts.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
Gif.
I should have said there tohighlight the difference.
I loved it.
I'm still.
I'm a little confused.
If we can continue just livingin that space that this guy who has
(15:27):
had a.
Some sort of spiritualawakening, is still presumably giving
his friend a gun.
In a bag.
There's probably more in thebag than just a gun.
We think he only wants thechamomile tea, but, yeah, he'll give
you some firearms.
That's fine.
Go kill your.
The guy who killed your father.
What a scene.
I mean, yeah, Rick is hisjourney Is it feels authentic in
(15:51):
a storytelling way.
You know, obviously, he's kindof speed running.
Enlightenment and personaldevelopment, maybe.
I mean, we don't know wherehe's gonna land.
But you don't.
You don't know how fast it is.
Have you ever released a bunchof snakes?
Huh?
Do you not know how that, youknow, expedites your spiritualism?
A little gasoline on the fireof the awakening.
(16:13):
But it's.
It does feel.
It's.
It's rare that in a TV showpeople have, like, a real believable
arc and, like, a classicalstorytelling kind of way.
And we're riding with Rick,for sure.
Yeah.
I mentioned in the intro, Ithink Matt White probably had a lot
of fun writing that scene,constructing that one.
Oh, that By Monday.
(16:33):
Or maybe it was.
It may have been to use a bit.
I think it was Monday.
There was already merchandisewith the full monologue on it.
You told me you're gonna sendme one.
I'm still waiting.
Well, they.
They managed to somehow getthe entire thing not just on that
T shirt, but on a hat.
Oh, it's like, on, like, themain part where the artwork usually
is.
And obviously had to spillover to the bill as well, which I.
(16:55):
That's the kind of absurdistmerch that I am thankful that the
Internet exists for.
Yeah.
All right, well, let's getinto some of the other big plot.
Once camera check at the gateruined my idea that Tim was a red
herring.
Seems like he's got the gun.
I mean, not only does he havethe gun, but he's debating using
it on himself.
Suicide note and all.
You know, it's.
It's a recurring thing thatmany of these folks want to leave
(17:18):
behind what they've done wrong.
I don't know that Saxon andLachlan have yet.
They may be too naive to havesuch thoughts.
Well, they're on the.
The beginning of the arc thattheir dad is reaching the conclusion
of.
Right, Right.
Yeah.
They're in the middle of thefun part.
They're not going to regret it yet.
No.
Do you think.
And I have not dove in online.
(17:40):
There may be an actual answer,but when he has the gun to his head,
you hear a click.
Is that click him trying tofire it, or is it him pulling it
away?
I.
I don't know.
I didn't notice it, nor have Iseen anything that would explain.
Okay, just curious.
Piper wants to leave behindher past.
(18:01):
She's not necessarily thinkingshe's done anything wrong.
The thing is, she's just not Chinese.
I mean, why is she gonna go tolive in Taiwan?
Why would she want to staythere in Taiwan?
Did you know Charles Mansonand Bill Clinton wrote books?
New information every week onthe white Lotus?
That was so good.
Now.
That was good.
(18:22):
It's so funny that we kind ofstarted out like, oh, gosh, she's
kind of annoying.
This accent's just too thick.
She's, oh, come on.
Let's dial it down.
But now when she's on screen,I'm just like, I can't wait for her
to utter something so stupidin her very white point of view.
Well, we could be arriving.
Oh, I know.
We're arriving at one thing.
We could be arriving at 2.
(18:43):
The one that's the maybe is.
Is this a Lucille Bluth situation?
Has she been pulling thestrings all along?
Does she know what's going onwith her husband?
Because she clearly, like, canhardly be bothered to give a.
That he's clearly goingthrough something.
She's honestly pullingsomething that is very realistic
(19:03):
for wives to pull.
And I think my wife does it.
It's where she knows you're upto something, but it.
It's not worth talking about.
I think it could be that, butI don't think that she is naive enough
to say, you want to stay in Taiwan.
You want.
You know what I mean?
I think she's, like, playingit up for.
(19:23):
The easiest way for her tomove through her social space is
to kind of be.
To have to play that role, youknow, and that there's a smarter
human under there that maybe is.
I mean, one read would beshe's manipulative.
Another is that she's justtrying to survive.
It wouldn't surprise me ifnothing comes of this idea or if
(19:45):
it turns out that she's been,like, stashing cash away, anticipating
his downfall.
They taught her in thesorority at Duke to be.
To play the dumb girl.
Yeah.
I mean, is it not somethingthat we see southern women have to
hopefully less and less astime goes on, but that there is a
certain expectation there, andthen maybe even you can judo that
(20:07):
into some form of power.
Oh, just take a lorazepam.
Yeah.
Fabian's back.
He gets something to do, andit's that he's going to remind gaytok
he's not at his post andlisten, though not heed Belinda's
warning of how dangerous Gregprobably is.
That situation is the same askind of wondering, like, how much
(20:29):
does Victoria know?
You know, like when Belindagoes to him and says, this could
be dangerous.
Yeah, I think I know who thisguy is?
Yeah.
Does that imply that they'rein on it somehow?
Yeah, that's thought.
That's a good theory.
Plenty of characters, though,who don't listen and don't understand.
(20:50):
So is he fitting a motif?
Is he really that dumb?
Is he oblivious?
Or is he playing along with Greg?
As Greg came to the.
To the desk and said, look,this lady's gonna probably gonna
come and ask about me.
Just play dumb.
At some point in the season,they said you have to be a guest
to go to the hotel.
You can't just wander in andhave dinner or whatever.
Yet Greg is not a guest.
(21:11):
And is there pretty often.
Does this imply that there'ssome relationship there?
Is he just the.
He's so rich and lives up thehill, just let him in.
Or is there some deepermeaning there?
Greg's palled around with somegay folks.
He may be gay, he may be bisexual.
Fabian might be gay.
(21:31):
I meant more like they'rerecovering international crimes.
But yeah, it could alsoscratch my back.
You scratch, you know?
Yeah.
Back scratching.
Going on.
Belinda's hidden predatorturns out to be a lizard.
And I don't know what kind ofmetaphor that is, but one of the.
Scarier ideas so far is thatshe slept in the same room with that
thing for lizard days.
(21:52):
It's not gonna hurt you.
I don't want a lizard in my room.
I have one in my house right now.
I know you send us picturesall the time.
Yeah, he's great.
But when he.
I don't want him runningaround scurrying about.
That's true.
The ladies, Kate, Jacqueline,and Lori engage the Russian dudes
in conversation.
Man, that guy.
What was his.
(22:12):
Vlad cracked me up.
Now this is when the.
The White lotus is cooking.
You know, they're having thesenormal conversations you might have
while partying.
And yet it turns to him, everyopportunity he gets, he brings up
how horrible his life is inthe stereotypical Russian fashion.
My.
My mother died.
(22:33):
You know, everything is like,hey, we're having fun.
Yeah, well, I lived in poverty.
The partying was.
Everything about that was like.
You just.
You felt it, you know, the onefriend just being ready to go to
bed and trying to shepherdeverybody else through the experience.
One person going too far.
(22:53):
And then just the sense ofdanger, like we're supposed to feel
that these women are marks insome way.
You know, something awful isgoing to happen.
But then kind of zooming outand thinking, well, why would he
crime at his place of business?
You know, he's obviouslyalready let him in they're, like,
stealing things from the giftshop or whatever.
(23:14):
We're supposed to assume that.
I think he may just hop fromcountry to country or place to place
and do this.
It's kind of what they do.
I think the simplest solutionis that they're already getting theirs.
They've already crimed.
Right.
So why not just, like, partyand hook up with.
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
That's the simplest solution.
(23:34):
That's.
I like that one.
Yeah.
Vlad.
Everyone, you know, dives inthe pool, underwear, except for Lori,
who goes topless.
And then Vlad just comesrunning out butt naked.
He's having a great time.
I mean, he.
He grew up, you know, with ahorrible Russian life.
He's ready to party.
Here's what.
What Jacqueline does wrong in.
(23:54):
In that she cheats on herhusband and she cheats on her friend
Lori, Right?
Because she was encouraginghim and her to hook up Valentin and
her.
So she sleeps with Valentineto kind of have control.
I'm the head here.
It's not really so much anattraction, though.
She probably thinks that she'sdeluded herself into probably thinking
(24:16):
that.
Well, and they made thispretty clear with the.
The dancing scene where shesees the younger women watching her
and she really leans into it,as they say.
I wouldn't be surprised ifthere's also an element of what was
said at the top that this islike an.
Having some agency againstaging, you know, like, well, if.
(24:36):
If we were really old, wouldwe be able to party all night and
then hook up with these?
You know, it's control overboth the friend group and her own
mortality, in a way.
Yeah.
Well said.
Which we all try to do one wayor another.
Good ways and bad.
You know, episode one, we.
We asked, oh, God, is this anincest family?
(24:57):
Are the Ratliffs incest?
And last week, Adam said no.
The show is a type to go there.
Well, here we have Sax andLachlan on the dope and then kissing
one another a little bit morethan they probably should.
You know, it's not just I dareyou to kiss peck.
They.
They kind of return to the kiss.
Right.
You know, if we are.
I want to talk about a lotabout their partying because there
(25:21):
was some really comical thingsthat happened.
Hey, I've set you a pic drive.
To the basket, but I think thekiss is less.
It was uncomfortable to watch.
Right.
Like, as a viewer, you watchthese people behave badly for two
and a half seasons now.
You're so biased againstincestuous people.
(25:41):
Yeah.
This is an okay place to bebut watching it, it felt kind of
like we were talking about thehookup being like a.
A power thing more than anything.
Which hookup?
Valentin?
Yep.
Whereas this, to me, it feelslike Saxon has been like the.
(26:05):
The big brother in charge.
And I mean, Lachlan even tellshim early in this episode, like,
I can't remember the exactphrasing, but I'm gonna get you one
day.
I'm going to rise above you.
And I think this was him, youknow, Saxon takes him out and the
day starts with him justtrying to convince his little brother
to have a beer.
And now, many beers later,many drinks later, the drugs appear
(26:27):
and go right down the hatchfor little bro.
The note and Saxon, Saxonthrowing up that X with his arms.
What does he say?
This is a drug free zone.
You know, he's just like, yeah.
And he says, I'm the drug.
I am the drug.
Yeah.
What an idiot.
It was so funny.
It's like those guys you wentto college with where you're just
like, hey, man, we're goingout to the bar.
And he's like, I don't drink.
(26:49):
Weightlifting's my high.
Yeah.
Except he does drink.
Yeah.
Well.
Well, okay.
Well, in this case, it's drugs.
Yes.
Yep.
The drinking, that's.
It's a very southern reactionin a way, you know, Southern frat
boy kind of version of that.
The kiss, I think was littlebrother saying, you.
You thought that you had toshow me the ropes on all this stuff,
(27:11):
and I am.
You're posturing in a way, andI'm willing to make you very uncomfortable.
Back to that control thing.
Yeah.
Now I have control.
It's a very Freudian assertionof who's taken over the pecking order
there.
Literal.
Just a little peck.
(27:32):
Speaking of control, I don'tknow that Greg's gonna be happy with
his girlfriend using his boat,controlling his belt to.
To bond with these kissing andidiotic brothers.
It gives him.
It gives him another reason tobe the predator, not the prey, though.
I don't.
I just don't see him holdingan automatic weapon.
(27:52):
I can't picture him doing that.
I mean, we'll see.
I think it was.
He'll pay somebody.
It was rightly pointed outthat Chloe, you know, we keep talking
about Greg Gary as this kindof the apex predator of the show
at the moment, but Chloe hasmanipulated her way somehow into
this relationship with him.
(28:15):
She's not as just happens tobe there, happen to start dating
this rich guy as maybe we should.
We're led to believe in thefirst Episode now.
Her name's Chloe.
What's her friend's name?
Rick's girlfriend, Chelsea.
Oh, I get that confused.
Chelsea, I think, is like amoral compass on the show.
Yeah.
You know, and her reaction,her reaction to the kiss, before
(28:38):
we completely leave the kissin the rear view mirror.
Donovan, he doesn't want toleave the kissing brothers.
But her, her reaction was hilarious.
So well acted and just like,what the hell is going on here?
Yeah, it's good stuff that,that Rick gets the reaction of the
week and as does Chelsea, his girlfriend.
(28:59):
She does.
And she is in a moment whereeverybody's like kind of doing the
party.
We're going to do whatever wewant, you know, shed our skin, kind
of jump into the, the moralgray area.
She's like, no, I'm, I'msticking with Rick, you know, even
though he's not here.
Whereas Chloe, you have towonder, like, I don't think it's
just I want to hook up withthis kid.
(29:20):
It's, there's something moreto it, I think.
Oh, okay.
And she presents it as, youknow, I'm dating Greg.
He's, he's old.
He's the rich bastard.
You know, it gives me the lifeI love, but I want the young guys
to play with and for sex and stuff.
It could be as simple as that.
I just, yeah, I sensesomething more devious.
(29:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Last week I mentioned that theshow asked how many resentments is
going to break you?
And this week it seems to beabout the, the wrongdoing that develops
the resentments.
At least here in this partyvote, the reveal of who kills whom
feels like it's going to be abigger shock this season than previous
(30:03):
seasons.
And that's kind of what I gotat when we be, when we started.
And you know, some of theseback half episodes might be even
better, at least in terms ofshock, than season one or two.
I mean, there's motive allover the place, right?
Yeah.
Good job of setting up motive for.
Everyone if you're willing to,you know, pin the string on the board
(30:27):
and start making some connections.
Everybody's only like at mosttwo or three away from an act of
violence outside of like Piper.
See, I could see her.
Even if they really wanted tobe a really twisty.
Chelsea's about the only one Ican't see.
(30:47):
I could see her standing byRick and some, you know, that's fair.
He gets himself into a pickleand she says, well, I don't know
what he's done, but that's my Guy.
So.
Yeah, here we go.
I hope Rick and Chelsea liveto see another season.
But.
Yeah, well, when it comes tosurprises, we'll wrap up one of the
(31:08):
big surprises.
Or I suppose one of the showswas some of the bigger surprises
with the finale of Severance.
Here we go.
Spoilers for it.
Cold harbor.
Last episode this season.
So spoilers going forward in case.
In case a listener is unawarethat you're in spoiler section.
It's okay.
At the very least, we get it again.
(31:29):
The finale gives us what weall needed, whether we wanted it
or not.
It's Milchek dancing for more gifts.
Man, he has the moves.
That guy can dance.
Man, he.
He shimmies.
Little reveal.
I.
I backed it up to watch a fewof those movies.
I hit the rewind.
He, he, he does such a good job.
Cuz I can't think of the actoroff the top of my head.
(31:52):
I apologize.
ML last name he play.
He's Trman is his name.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
He just keeps the same pokerface on the entire time, which is
what makes it really bad.
Choreography and movement.
Yeah.
And well, speaking of, youknow, he's there with.
(32:13):
He's got to act opposite of a animatronic.
Keir Egan.
Kudos for that.
Right?
Man, the spotlight, the fake crowd.
I like that they gave us acouple of those wonderfully surreal
touches as we say goodbye tothis season.
It's like it's, it's, it's.
It's like a weird corporate retreat.
Two people.
(32:33):
Not to be our stereotypical selves.
But I kept thinking if youtake away the reaction shots from
Mark and Helly in that scene,that's pure David Lynch.
But the reaction shots kind ofbring us a little bit down to less
surreal and more like, whatthe going on here?
Yeah, I have to say that much.
(32:54):
Like with your White Lotusassessment, we are jumping straight
into what I consider to thedessert of this episode, which is
Tramille Tillman's entire performance.
The dance, so good.
But it's kind of early in theepisode, to be fair.
It is, but it's kind of all ofa piece, right?
Like he leaves.
He leaves.
Dealing with Dylan reappearingafter, you know, Dylan does not any.
(33:17):
Dylan does not expect to comeback to life.
And suddenly is confrontedwith that.
And away he goes, Milchicksprinting down the hallway.
Yeah, but why?
We don't know yet.
And then this variety starts up.
That may be one of thefunniest things this show has done
for me is when he slides thatenvelope over for Dylan to read.
(33:39):
He sprints, and you don't know why.
And he's just like, what the fuck?
He's just like, my day'sreally packed.
Zoom.
Now we are set up to know thatthe entire company is watching him.
The Cold harbor is, like, oneof the biggest days in Lumen history.
Pressure's own.
I got a lot of.
A lot on my plate right now.
That's the energy there.
(33:59):
Like, I can't deal with your paperwork.
I got a lot on my plate right now.
The way he sprints, the.
You're talking about the animatronic.
Can we get in the weeds here?
Was there consciousness in.
Right.
Is it a script or is it response?
Well, Helly looked at it totry to see what you're thinking there.
Yeah.
She definitely gave it the.
(34:19):
The gaze into the eyes.
Like, what's in there?
Well, this sets up whatthey're trying to accomplish with
Cold Harbor.
Right.
Like, is this an early,limited version of them trying to
animate Kier's consciousness?
Huh?
Yeah.
It was so weird.
You know, Keir Egan was a CEOuntil his death.
If you note that plaque on thewall that begins the episode, I don't
(34:40):
know how important that was,but they certainly gave it to you.
I think he might have had topause it to really get the dates
correct, and which I mighthave done.
Mean, he's the.
He's the big man.
Yes.
Kerrigan, how much stock doyou put into the opening credits?
Because we don't get John Turoas a literal baby, or do we get him
as a figurative one?
Whatever that represents orsupposed to be.
(35:02):
Well, and it evolves over thecourse of the season.
Right.
I'm sure that there's now,like, a super cut of.
You can watch them all back toback, which I should have done before
we sat down, but he's.
He's in it a lot.
Animatronic or not, Jay, Meganand Kerrigan are both scary.
I thought it was just a sweettouch to have Haley's dad be even
(35:24):
creepier by.
By using a different cameraangle than they gave you, I think
last week.
Kind of gives you the notionthat he's not there.
Or Helly imagined him and, youknow, you're thinking, oh, maybe
she didn't see him last week.
Nope.
There's the father of the yearright there.
He's still there.
He's been watching, sayingweird shit.
(35:45):
He likes to watch.
Yes, he does.
I still find it interestingthat the Enies think of no longer
working as death.
And, you know, we have thatword for its termination.
You've been terminated.
It echoes that sentiment.
But it's such a capitalisticidea or late stage capitalism even.
(36:07):
You are your job.
Without it, you're dead.
It seems as if there would beat least one innie that would voice
that, well, I do have an Audi.
I'm going to continue eventhough I won't know it or be a part
of it per se.
But I think they've used thetwo seasons to set up the vast differences
in the two.
(36:27):
Yes.
And it's a good job.
I just, I don't know, I justwould have suspected at least one
of them to maybe brieflymention it.
But yes.
No, it's not because theyhaven't done a good job of setting
all this up.
They earn that a bit with, youknow, we have to go back before Mark
shows up at work again to thebirthing cabin and how great that
(36:48):
whole.
The idea of, of the video.
And I love that they use the,what, late 90s, early 2000s technology
there of him filming himself.
Yeah.
To highlight all of the Audi coble.
Devin and Mark's attitudeabout the Ennis slowly gets betrayed
(37:12):
in the language that they use.
And that Audi Mark can't evenbe bothered to get Helly's name right.
You know, in the way thatDevin the sister says, there's a
moment where any Mark realizesthis is going to kill me and she
kind of reacts like, yeah, wewere hoping you weren't going to
(37:32):
notice that, you know, And Ithink that those two, the name being
wrong and that reaction gavehim every right to, to say, like,
do these people have my best interest?
Yeah.
At heart.
Like, why should I sacrificemyself for them?
Because I have a differentautonomy than, than Audi Mark does.
(37:52):
And is that even a good guy?
I don't know.
Yeah.
The conversation between Markwork Mark and outside Mark really
drives home how different they are.
And I was thinking, okay, isit just the love interest that separates
them?
Is that strong enough?
Is any Mark more evil?
Is he more brainwashed byLumen shit?
(38:15):
I mean, I think you run intothe same thing with Dylan.
Right.
Like he writes the letterabout I want you to continue existing
because you're a version of methat I aspire to.
I think any Mark could.
I don't know that he believeshe's a better version than Audi,
but he certainly believes thathe is a different person.
I was, I was gonna saybasically what Adam said, like, I
(38:38):
think they've done the work.
So that's.
It's not even that you have toso much be like, oh, like is obviously
the.
Like is.
He is like any mark bit morethis or that or the other.
But just like they're like.
They're different people andwe've been shown that they're different
and over and over again, justlike Audi not getting Helly's name
(38:59):
right.
Like, you literally havenothing in common with me besides
our body.
Because we don't share thesame experiences.
We don't share memories, wedon't share anything.
We just.
We just happen to beaccidentally in the same flesh.
Prison at the same time sometimes.
Donovan, how much of you atwork is you at home?
(39:20):
Right.
No, I'm asking.
Oh, me probably.
Well, you at work loves Taylor Swift.
I gotta put on a smile on myface for.
For everyone who walks in.
You know.
See, I can do that at home.
Yeah.
I find it hard sometimes somedays to.
To have a work Persona.
Huh.
A lot of this episode inparticular is about living.
(39:42):
Not like life, but like livingand the beliefs of what living are
missing.
His friends at work deeplyconcerns any Mark and deeply concerned
Any Dylan too, with.
With Irv.
No.
Any, though Express, unlessI'm forgetting, expresses that stopping
(40:03):
the job is just a black screenor mentions an afterlife.
I find it something that theworkers are so full of uncertainty
about what's going to happento us or just don't want anything
to happen to them.
But the Lumen and Egan folksare just zealots.
Like, they have the steelconviction that endangers them and
(40:24):
everyone with a contact likethe abandoned town and all.
Yeah, I'm not really sure what to.
Follow up on there, but.
But to add to that, you know,with the whole afterlife idea and
how no one's mentioned it, wedo get both marks talking to one
another, presented with iceand fire.
(40:44):
So whether or not they believein an afternoon afterlife or not,
they've certainly watched Gameof Thrones.
Yeah, there's a little bit ofhints right, from the Lumen people
because they're like, youwon't be with care now, you know.
Right.
No, they can find cures, right.
In the.
They're zealots, which is acomment on zealotry, I think.
But yeah, it is kind ofinteresting, right?
(41:06):
Like, you kind of wonder.
I think they've got a job done.
A good job of this was likethey give the Innies little hints
of what their outies are like.
What's the.
What's the mythology of lifeoutside the severed floor?
I think the Innies also areshown to always question, maybe too
Strong a word.
But, you know, there is anideology there for them.
(41:26):
You know, the zealots are presenting.
These are the ways that youlive, the tempers, whatever.
They have a whole area thatyou can go and pay your respects
to the mythology.
But they kind of treat thewhole thing like.
Like a corporate presentation,even though they don't have the outside
(41:47):
consciousness to know they'redoing it.
You know what I mean?
Like, they're like, yeah, wekind of have to look at this because
we work here.
But none of them seem like.
Irv seems early on to respectall of that.
And the rest of them are justkind of like, yeah, whatever, I'm
just here for the paycheck.
Wouldn't it be fascinating ifchurch was like that, where they
gave pie charts and had a presentation?
(42:09):
What church are you going to?
They're not doing that.
None.
Oh, the ones I went to as akid just basically told me I was
going to hell no matter what, so.
Right.
Well.
And then the churches that aredefinitely involved in tax fraud,
those are the churches that.
That have pie charts for their members.
You can see where therighteous gemstones versions of church,
(42:31):
I suppose.
Why do they need 25 versionsof Gemma?
I mean, 15.
Not enough.
10.
Corporate greed.
We still don't really have agood why for what they're doing.
Right.
They give us a little drip of,oh, it's his war against pain, which
is like, okay, well, then theether makes sense, right?
(42:52):
Like if Kira's.
And then like the.
The baby crib, right.
Has associations with not hersevered self, but her whole.
Her.
Her outie self.
But we don't really.
Like.
I don't really.
I didn't see the threadthrough what all those other.
What they were building withthose other personalities.
Except torturing this poor woman.
(43:14):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, are they trying to.
However the data works,however the numbers work, are they
somehow creating aconsciousness for her?
Like a severed version?
That is.
I mean, it seems simple.
Like, the idea is, let'sremove all of that from her brain
and then send her out into the world.
(43:35):
But I don't really know howthat stops you from having more bad
experiences that cause pain.
You know what I mean?
Like, what's the plan for,like, really pain proofing a life
Ether.
Ether.
Turns out they had thesolution in front of them the whole
time.
Yeah.
Stick to the basics.
(43:55):
Huff glue in a van like Godwanted you to.
I love the horror movie tone.
When Mark and Haley were backat the.
At the office.
Yeah, it had a lot of thosescenes just had pure horror movie.
I loved it.
They did such a good job ofboth bolstering and undercutting
(44:16):
the horror.
Especially like with that, youknow, like.
And I think a lot of that goesto, to Milchick.
Let's, let's say, you know,the, the when it switches over to
like the marching band andeverything, like again, it like undercuts
the horror, but at the sametime it kind of like weirdly ramps
it up because it's like whatis happening here?
(44:39):
Yeah, well.
And I thought of when you saidhorror movie.
You know, there's one thingwhen Helly sits down with her back
to that animatronic here.
There is zero chance I'mputting my back to that.
Yeah, no, I mean I felt thatviscerally on like that feeling of
I could be stabbed at anytime, you know.
(45:00):
But watching Mr.
Milchick kind of snap thewhole thing out of the horror movie
was comedic.
He's running down the hallwayand he.
He literally uses a remote tolike put it back to the dull office
lighting.
That was so funny.
He did such a good job.
I'm just.
For a guy who spends most ofhis episode in one place or between
two rooms.
(45:20):
He was so.
He was so good.
I mean he spent his entire dayafter talking to Mark on the phone
in the previous episode as aone man party planning committee.
Yes.
And he put all of this together.
Yeah.
Swank's gone, man.
He's on his own.
He's got to do it.
I did see one interestingtidbit online in a.
(45:41):
An interview with Tramell Tillman.
He's saying that the, youknow, the marching band moved like
a HBCU marching band.
Yes.
Huh.
And he said that that is to beread as Milchick asserting his independence.
Whoa.
Yeah.
But there one read on it wouldbe they're kind of getting him to
(46:02):
like, oh, let's make the blackguy dance.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Yes.
A gross racist history.
And instead he's taking thatand asserting his own agency, which
I thought was very interesting.
That is good.
That's.
I like that because I feellike there was more of the kind of
like.
I mean it's, it's interestingyou brought that up because like
(46:22):
in the interactions betweenlike the kiraton automaton and Mr.
Belichick, there seemed to be,you know, like it got increasingly
frosty, you know, and itseemed to be overtones that like
you're getting above yourstation, you know, like you're getting
to, you know, know your place.
Yes.
And his Reaction is definitelysomebody who is not backed away from
(46:44):
the edge of, you know, tellinghis superior to eat shit.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
He's still got the same energy.
He's.
He's riding that high.
Yeah, yeah.
It's interesting because healso buys into the Lumen, Egan religion,
whatever you want to call it.
And I think we have toquestion at this point how much he
(47:05):
does, you know, him.
And, you know, episode one,season one, he's all in.
Yeah, he has changed from thatepisode, but I do think we can say
he, at least so far,faithfully discharges his duties.
And is there a day when thatwill not happen?
But I think for right now,despite whatever he feels inside,
(47:25):
he's still gonna.
He's still.
He's still a company man.
Some people have posted thepicture of, you know, like a door
with the security latch, but it's.
It's a Cheeto instead of likean actual secure system.
Like, what security on thesevered floor has just been non existent.
It's the same security guyletting them in every day.
(47:46):
And I guess because of thenature of.
They think of them as littlechildren that can be easily controlled.
Like, how much oversight isMilchek really undergoing?
Like, he has to go in for hisperformance review, but he's really
just been ratted out by his assistant.
Right.
And like, Kobel clearly had alot of irons in the fire and was
kind of out of control from Lumen.
(48:07):
So I think Milchek has thepossibility to dominate season three,
kind of acting as like a rogueindependent force.
You stole my next sentence.
Which was the good news iswe're going to probably get a lot
of Milchick next season.
That seems to be the promise.
He seems to be the one becausehe is whole in both places.
(48:29):
Right.
He's the only one that's thego between between any and Audi and
has a clear picture of what'sgoing on and seems to be jumping
off the train.
Mm.
Cobalt, you're still like, what?
You still have some evil intention?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's no doubt about that.
Good balance of horror.
And then into action.
I saw.
(48:49):
I felt no jolt or jarring ofgoing from one to the other, though
they do have a lot in common.
Oh, I.
I have a question, though.
A little shift here from us.
Is Dylan the type.
Audi.
Dylan, I suppose the type touse the word indecorous.
That did not fit.
Really.
I thought that was kind oflike again with his, like, little
(49:11):
sugar, you know, it's likefirst you.
Your behavior with my Wife.
Right.
But Audi Dillon can't evenbake cookies.
That doesn't mean he doesn'tknow a word.
That's true.
He doesn't want to bake cookies.
He doesn't want to do theeffort to bake cookies.
But.
Well, no, he sat down and wrote.
(49:32):
This letter because he's mad.
Yeah, I'll.
I applaud Erickson, writer,creator, Stiller, all of them, on
upending the status quo.
You know, there's just no waythings are going to remain the same.
And it's even more so than thefirst season.
In the first season's ending, it's.
(49:54):
They've upended to where youjust can't have certain things reset.
There's no going back.
Yeah, I really respect showsthat do that, are able to do that.
It reminded me of, like, I wasreading an interview with Alan Moore
when he took over Swamp Thing,and he completely changed kind of
what.
What was going on in the comic.
(50:15):
And he's like, the reason Idid it is because, like, you know,
characters, if the character'sgoals are ever fulfilled, then the
comic ends, right?
Then he has no.
Nothing to do.
And so, you know, the audiencekind of kind of knows that it's.
It's a tease, right?
Like, oh, he's never gonnaaccomplish it.
And I.
And then taking and taking itin a new direction lets you do new
(50:38):
things and also lets theaudience know that, like, hey, now,
this character may actually begoing somewhere.
And so I really respect.
You know, it's kind of likethe Fugitive, right?
Like, if he solves themystery, the show is over.
But for.
For the show, I think Mad Mendid it.
I think Breaking Bad did it.
I think a lot of good shows do it.
They're willing to flip thetable and.
(50:59):
And so you, you know, and sowe're not stuck in the, like.
Well, I know it's never goingto happen because if they do that,
then this show that they makemoney off of is going to end.
Yeah.
We get any.
Mark getting one of hisdesires fulfilled, he runs off with
Heli in the end.
I mean, that was subversive tothe point of almost sad or disappointing.
(51:20):
You know, he chooses heli.
And it's so nicely set up inthe Gemma episode that we kind of
have.
We love her in a way and wecare about her now.
I do wish we would have hadone more big emotional reminder about
Mark and Gemma.
But as it was, it was reallygood still that he chooses Heli.
(51:40):
It was just.
It was a lightning bolt.
It was a.
It was a strike.
You could just see him lookingout that door at Gemma and hearing
Bobby Hill in his head going,I don't know you, you really good.
Somebody made a gif where heis looking at her through the door,
through the glass.
And then he looks back atHelly and over.
Helly is in post season threeand he walks toward.
(52:03):
That was the only moment wherethat is a great scene.
But it's like, well, of coursehe has to deal with her because I
already know that season threeis going to happen.
So this is the way to achievemaximum conflict there.
Although everything leading upto that, I still think we're back
at like Orpheus here.
You know, he goes down intohell and grabs Gemma and as Audi
(52:25):
Mark down there.
And if you really clock howmany different versions of him it
takes to pull this off, it's fantastic.
And how many permutations ofMark and Gemma are together just
in the brief time they are.
Yeah.
It's a lot of math.
Wow.
You know, you said, I wish I'dmade that connection.
That is fantastic.
You said, Blaine, that youwish there'd been one more emotional
(52:48):
something to.
Yeah.
To really grab onto with Markand Gemma.
And I think that when sheleaves the cold harbor severed area
and her face changes andthey're reunited.
Yeah.
I mean that was so, so good.
That was as good as any.
Mark's heart wrenchingdecision on the.
The floor above.
(53:09):
You know that when you really.
I think especially if you hadbinged the show as people will do
in the future and you knowthat this guy starts thinking his
wife is dead and all of asudden it's not just her body but
like she's back right in frontof him.
That's a really overwhelmingemotional moment.
Somebody's come back from thedead and they embrace and it's like,
(53:31):
okay, now.
Oh, we gotta run.
Yeah.
And then he has to.
To usher her through.
I think it's also proof thatany Mark is a good guy.
Right.
Like he told them that hewould get Gemma through the severed
floor and to the fire escape.
He doesn't say that he'scoming with her.
Yeah.
You know, well, I, I questionhow much of any Mark choosing hilly
(53:53):
was a big fuck you to Audi Mark.
Because of their argument.
That's totally what it is.
But it's also some love orattraction to Helly.
Sure.
You know, he was promised thathe could have those memories.
Yep.
You know, once the procedure'sdone and all of that.
But you know, he even pushesback against that like, am I gonna
(54:13):
Be you for part of the day andme for part of the.
You know, how does that even work?
It's an awfully cruel way to spite.
It's very cruel.
And I thought that Helly isthe most selfless person in the episode.
Yeah.
You know, she sends Mark toget Gemma.
She says, you have to go, essentially.
(54:34):
And she says something like,I'm me, or I'm her or I'm her.
And so the question that I.
When I first watched it, Ithought, well, she's saying, no matter
what, I am tied to Lumen, youknow, there's nothing I can do to
escape whatever's gonna playout later.
But other people read it asher saying, I'm her.
(54:56):
I am Audi.
Mark feels about this womanthe way that you feel about me, and
you have to go help her andhelp him.
But they're alreadyintroducing the fact that Helly cannot
get away from Helena by herdad showing up and saying, this is
the real version of the Eganthat we want.
(55:17):
He even says the creepy stuffabout he has other kids right in
the shadows.
Yeah.
Which I think is tied to what?
The cobalt interaction withthe security guard at the birthing
cabins in the previous episodewhere she says, oh, we're going to
the specific.
Whatever.
Super happy they didn't killthe goat.
(55:37):
Cute goat.
I like goat.
I do too.
I don't want that worked out.
Worked out as good as it could.
Poor Iceland.
Oh, Drummond.
Did we really feel bad for Iceland?
Yeah.
Didn't you see the nice thingsthat he said in somebody somewhere?
I assume that he just.
That this is the severedversion of the nice guy we saw in
(55:58):
somebody somewhere.
That's how acting works.
Right?
So Sam is like waiting in the park.
Yeah, exactly.
He's never coming back.
Somebody who's never coming back.
Hey, he's a fine actor.
He can give us a big lovableteddy bear and he can give us menacing
drumming.
Yeah.
I mean, if you can literallydo two completely opposite things
and then I'm watching youwithin a couple months of each other
(56:20):
and it feels.
It's like you might be good atyour job.
I don't know.
They also really let kudos toeverybody involved for letting him
beat the ever loving out of Mark.
You know, when you see they'rein this enclosed space and like maybe.
I mean, Mark's smaller, youknow, he runs kind of goofy, but
maybe he can get away from him.
And then you just see that bighand come out and throw him into
(56:43):
the wall.
It's like, this isn't gonna go well.
For us, poor Mark's fallen outof shape in the last two years from
drinking and grieving over his wife.
Thank God Gwendoline Christiewas there to save the day.
Even in this last episode,which I think leaned more to the
drama.
They just have these greatepisodes of comedy, like, where that
(57:05):
fight in the hall was verywell shot.
I would go so far as to saythat it felt brutal.
Right.
You're right there when he hitthe wall.
Oh, yeah.
But so, like.
And it's like.
Oh, like it's.
It's visceral, but also like,it all gets kicked off with.
He opens the door and Mark's,like, trying to climb the.
It's so funny.
Yeah, it's so.
And.
And.
And I.
I just like this episode especially.
(57:28):
Did such a good job with that,like, those two underlying tensions
of, like, the humor and then,like, the.
The.
The.
Which, like, they.
They kind of both undercuteach other, but done well.
They work together and createsomething new.
You got to give it to Adam Scott.
He went right back to hiscomedy roots for a second with that
(57:51):
look he gives.
Absolutely.
This gave a more satisfyingending to a season than season one.
It did.
I mean, season kudos to themfor season one because we couldn't
wait for this one to start again.
I can live for however long ittakes for them to make season three
now.
I think they've built such aworld that there's a lot to chew
(58:13):
on.
Right.
Part of that is, in seasonone, you can't really answer questions
because you're posing the questions.
And they did a wonderful jobof satisfying viewers while at the
same time giving us a coupleof new things to still ponder for
next season.
Taking the season as a whole.
(58:34):
One of my.
And we.
I talked about.
We talked about this a bunch,but I think I just loved how much
it wasn't a tease.
Like, yeah, there are somemysteries out there, but, like, I
didn't just feel like I wasgetting jerked around, you know,
and then they're like, waitfor season three.
You know, they really.
Actually, I think they did agood job of having, like, the individual
(58:55):
episodes work as individualepisodes because we care about the
characters and also propellingthe story meaningfully forward.
And it does a lot to, youknow, y'all talked about.
They're unafraid to knock down.
What would be the guidelinesfor another show, you know, like,
once you.
But it also.
(59:16):
Two scenes jump out at me.
One, when they kill.
When Mark kills Drummond.
Right.
Like a sudden explosion of violence.
Yeah.
And happens.
And it's like, oh, this is.
Yeah, people are dying.
You know, it's not just like,what if the secret of.
Of mistreating workers gets out?
Now there is a dead bodyinvolved and goat sacrifice before
(59:38):
that that has the chance ofleaking out.
And now we have a wholemarching band standing between Milch
and his escape and Dylan.
Don't look at Dylan, man.
Dylan.
Well, Dylan held the.
Held the door there.
But.
But the ability of heli to.
And maybe this is.
Her dad was right in someweird way.
She rallies this room full of people.
(01:00:00):
I mean, revolution isunderfoot, right?
Best show of the year so far.
Our short year so far.
Yeah.
For best show I've seen this year.
Yeah.
I think it taken as a whole sofar, it's number one.
Yeah.
Well, that's the end of thepodcast for this week.
We got great news though.
(01:00:21):
We have bonus material comingout Thursday for you.
If you didn't get enough,we'll be out on Thursday to talk
about the Netflix series Adolescence.
You're gonna get two in oneweek from us.
We really appreciate you listening.
And here's a thing you may not consider.
Podcasts are flying blindly.
(01:00:41):
We.
We know the numbers, but wenever know who they are and what
they think.
If you'd like, head to theAlabama take, click podcast at the
top, go to this episode andleave us a comment.
You could do that anonymously,or you can tell us who you are.
What.
What do you think?
What did we get wrong?
What were your favoritemoments of our episode?
Suggestions.
(01:01:01):
If we sometimes we can get tosuggestions as far as what to watch.
And if you're really feelinggenerous, you can make a donation
that helps us pay for websitehosting, podcast hosting, and extra
things.
I'm blank.
And for Adam and Donovan, wehope you catch up with an old friend
with big news in Bangkok.
Before I do the usualintroduction to our podcast, I'd
like for you to take a littlebit and hear what I have to say.
To begin, the podcasts in ourfamily of podcasts come from the
site the Alabama Take, whichis a culture site from Alabama or
even Alabama adjacent folkswith musings and of course, podcasts.
(00:21):
This week, for the first timein our short history, one of our
own passed away.
The young lady is Lauren begg.
She was 23.
Although Lauren faced fourserious hospital visits already this
year, she had beautiful plansfor what she called her Jordan Year.
She wrote about thoseendeavors on the site and even had
(00:43):
a regular column on theAlabama Take.
She was as sweet as herwritings likely lead you to believe.
I'm going to miss regularemails from Lauren Talk let me know
she had another essay or bookreview ready for the site.
I'd like to dedicate thisepisode to Lauren, her memory and
any avid young reader andwriter to those who aren't afraid
(01:04):
to put themselves out there.
Second, I offer the warmest ofthanks to Ms.
Brenda, a lady whom I do notknow but kindly made a donation to
this site via the podcast andthe donation page.
Ms.
Brenda wrote to us the briefmessage Please accept this donation
in honor of Lauren Beck, whowill live on in our hearts forever.
(01:27):
Thank you.
I like that this lady foundappreciation of the site and what
the site does to perhaps givea home to young and old writers who
may be developing their voicesor may have established their voice
already, but share it in ourcommunal atmosphere, which is what
(01:47):
we hope to present at ourwebsite and with our podcast.
Thank you again Belinda.
Lastly, if you're interestedin writing anything for the Alabama
Tag, take a look around thesite and see if you like what you
see or if you have a podcastidea you can pitch it to us.
We can be reachedeasily@thealabama takemail.com Lauren,
(02:10):
we know you're out there, sotake care and help us keep reading
and writing and trying to beas kind as you are.
Hey everyone, thanks fortuning down to Taking it down.
We are a working class TV andstreaming podcast.
No inside Hollywood stuff andwe get no screeners.
(02:30):
I'm the host Blaine.
Joining me soon will be theother two hosts, Adam and Donovan.
Their personal expertise ofyears as a musician and as a information
specialist respectively.
Give a lot to each episode.
If you like what we do or ifany our brother and sister podcasts
have your attention as well,or if you like the writings on the
(02:50):
site, you can click ondonation via the site and feel free
to give us any help you'd liketo give.
With that, here are Adam andDonovan, Alabama tape projection.
(03:12):
Hey guys.
Hey guys.
I mentioned at the top of theepisode before you two came in that
our episode today is in memoryof Lauren Bett, who loved contributing
to the website and herthoughts on books was just a fun
thing I always look forward to.
She'd even throw in anoccasional football or basketball
(03:33):
thought at us.
She'll be definitely missed.
Her emails were always fun.
But as we do with everyepisode, we're gonna start with ideas
that won't spoil TV shows or movies.
But this case it's just two TVshows, no spoilers.
Then more detailed stuff onthe back half.
So last week I did bring upthe new Apple TV plus show Dope Thief.
(03:59):
Yeah, that's the one starringBrian Tyre Henry and Wagner Mura,
who they've gotten themselvesin a bit of a pickle.
A quandary if you will.
The third episode.
It's not one we'll run down ina spoiler section, but I just noted
it's still high quality seriesthrough three.
Some of that most recentepisode had some tension that began
(04:21):
as kind of manufactured alittle, or at least felt that way.
But then the back half hadthis tautness that was really organic,
tightly done in those scenesand just the ones right after Brian
Tyree Henry did what seems tocome natural to him at this point.
He's got these funny anddeeper moments, but at the same time
really intense with thetension and fear.
(04:43):
If anybody's interested inthat little rundown on it, let's
jump into things we've all,well, most of us have seen.
So.
Donovan.
Donovan.
What an introduction.
Just throw him under the bus there.
You know, you make a bed, youlie in it.
He didn't do his homework.
The White Lotus hits its apexto me thus far with the fifth episode,
(05:05):
Full Moon Party, I'd saythat's in part of the is the variations
of vacationers at the WhiteLotus Resort and Thailand are finally
being really mixed and matchedand it's like they're put into Saxon's
blender of protein shakes.
It's like they all had a fullmoon fever.
Am I right?
Yeah.
Hey, I wondered about that title.
(05:27):
Yeah, My White plays with allsorts of different personalities
and even brings in a littlebit more of a surprise.
Full Moon Party had to be veryfun to construct and it shows with
the actors.
I think you had to pause there.
You said full moon party.
Fever.
Fever's in your head now.
Well, I'm pretty Used tosaying full Moon Fever.
(05:49):
Yeah, I thought this was agreat episode.
I thought it delivered.
You know, last week I said onthe program that we seem to be hitting
our stride, and I felt likethey just handed the baton off and
went off at a good trot.
It was a great episode.
Classic White Lotus episode.
I think we were lukewarm onthe start of the season.
(06:10):
And without spoiling anything,I think if we were to watch immediately
an episode from season oneafter seeing the episode that we
just saw of season three, itwould be shocking how much bigger
the show has gotten.
I mean, I think they're nowseeing everything play out from Mike
White's brain.
(06:31):
I think the ambition is there,you know what I mean?
To not only kind of continueto use this very successful formula,
but.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's.
It's paying off.
I wouldn't be surprised if wecame back at the end of this season
and said that it had some ofthe best White Lotus episodes overall.
It just floundered in, like,the first episode, maybe a little
(06:52):
of the second.
Yeah, I think it was more likemaybe they could have been condensed
into one.
I think we've said that.
I think that's what you'regetting at.
I would be interested, afterall is said and done, to rewatch
in sequence and see if I feelthe same way.
Maybe some of the.
This is one of the first,like, dependably big names of the
year to come back.
(07:12):
You know, we kind of had itcircled coming into 2025.
White Lotus back in Februaryor early whatever, late January,
whatever it was.
Maybe the anticipation.
Yeah.
Got us there.
We had Severance circled as well.
That's where we're going.
Non spoilers.
Don't worry.
It makes its bow for season two.
And, you know, there's not alot we'll say here.
(07:33):
It's been a great season, wellfilmed, better acted than its previous
season, which was still high.
Interesting ideas.
Go watch both seasons on Apple tv.
Plus, when you do come backhere, use our time steps and go straight
to the spoiler section.
I would encourage our viewersto write in our listeners to write
in to us and tell us whyyou're getting severed.
(07:56):
Do you want to share?
You want to open the floor?
Oh, I think I'm gettingsevered so that I don't have to hear
another Taylor Swift song again.
Not that I don't like TaylorSwift, but my wife listens to things
very deeply and narrowly.
You're getting severed fromyour wife is what you're telling
us when you've heard.
When you've heard bad blood500,000 times, you get.
(08:17):
You're like, maybe there'sother songs in the world.
I don't know.
Think of the hell.
No matter what, I'm puttinghim in.
Yeah, right.
You.
You only click to life whenfill in the blank artist comes in.
Who would that artist.
I mean, Blaine has Bob Dylan.
Who do you have?
Donovan.
That.
That would actually be a.
That.
That would be a pleasure.
A utopia.
(08:38):
It's a good question.
It's a good question.
It's a good question.
There's first two Pixies albums.
Really?
David Bowie.
Oh, I love.
And Surfer Rosa.
Love it.
Could have guessed David Bowie.
I didn't guess that, Adam.
You started it.
You know, the tragedy would bethat if.
If this technology justswitched on as soon as one of these
(08:58):
songs started playing, thenyou would never get to experience
it.
That's right.
You didn't.
Well, you never knew it.
Well, he's having it now.
He has made the decision tospecifically sever himself from fill
in the blank artist.
And yours is.
I mean, it's got to be betweenyou two and the clientele for the
enjoyment, for the utopia.
That's what.
That's what I think.
(09:18):
But what if I never got todrive on a nice spring day and listen
to the clientele again?
Well, maybe your Audi does aversion of you.
Yeah, that's right.
Too complex for this section.
Let's give everyone a breakand then on the other side, we'll
do spoilers for the WhiteLotus and separates, in that order.
Do you love music?
(09:40):
Do you want to explore classic albums?
If you answered yes, thencheck out Polyphonic Press.
I'm Jeremy and along with myco host John.
We rely on the patented RandomAlbum generator to pick an album
for us to review at the top ofeach show.
We have no idea what albumwe're going to be listening to.
(10:01):
That's what keeps it really exciting.
We dig real deep into these albums.
So if this sounds interesting,come along with us on this journey
because you never know whatyou might find.
We release a new episode everyTuesday morning.
That's Polyphonic Press, andwe're available on every podcast
platform.
(10:22):
All right, we're back.
Let's start with the spoilersection of the fifth episode of the
White Lotus, which is FullMoon Party.
And boy, there's plenty tospoil in this one.
Tim seems to be the guy withthe gun.
Gay talk is too milquetoast todemand it back.
The Russians love to party.
It's a big surprise that's thebiggest spoiler.
(10:42):
Wait, Russians like to party.
The party on the boat turnsinto some high reverie.
And most importantly, Rickmakes it to Bangkok to hang out with
old pal Frank, who's played bythe always fun Sam Rockwell.
Let's just run it down a little.
Let's do it.
Okay.
Yeah.
Tim from the podcast Seti Bimko.
(11:04):
Not Tim on the show.
Tim writes to us this week and he.
He had an excellent point.
So good.
I just wanted to kick myselffor not seeing it.
He says, I've been enjoyingwhat the show White Lotus has to
say.
Yeah, I'm tired of Tim sittingaround with a blank face.
But this season's capturingwhat it's like to get old and pine
for a bit of the old days.
(11:24):
Our three girlfriends were outdancing with the young crowd, convincing
themselves they could stillhave fun.
And we have Rick's friend whowishes that maybe he was a young
Asian girl.
When.
When Greg's girlfriend tellsus she likes getting naked in front
of young men because theyshake and you can see their little
hearts beating, I was like,yes, I remember that.
(11:45):
I remember shaking as well.
Yeah.
Well, that's a good emailright there from Tim.
That's pretty good.
You know, he pointed out this.
One of the motifs of thisseason is aging, you know, and that's
a.
I just can't believe I didn'tsee that one.
As I age myself, it's abounds.
I didn't notice because I amyoung and will remain young forever.
(12:08):
So keep going.
Yeah, no, no sense bearing thelead here.
This episode exploded for mebecause, hey, when you need a one
on one with Walton Goggins,you gotta, you gotta give him somebody
who can duke it out with himline by line.
And you bring in Sam Rockwell.
It's what you do.
He's great.
He's absurdly hilarious inmost of his roles and it's what he
(12:30):
did here.
I mean, you're going straightto it.
Yeah.
For this one I am, yeah.
Yeah.
I said I was gonna run it down.
This is the Walton Gogginsshow for you.
Yeah, I'm a fan.
Yeah.
I'm a pretty big fan of his.
Yes.
Straight to the.
You're going straight todessert here is what you're doing.
Uh huh.
I hate that I did not watchthe Amazon prime show about the fallout.
(12:53):
Was it called Fallout Fallout?
Yeah.
He supposedly plays acharacter who's.
He gets to play him in makeupsometimes and not make up some.
If I understand.
But yeah.
Anyway, I'm a fan.
Are we Going straight to the conversation.
Is it happening?
Let's do it.
I mean, Frank's revelationabout himself exposes how nearly
(13:15):
everyone on the show has noclue who they really are to their
detriment.
Yeah, I think Frank.
Frank asked the tough question.
Once you start staring intothe void that is that monologue,
everyone else around him, notaround him, because he's.
He hasn't met Piper, you know,he doesn't know that she's also going
through a.
(13:35):
Would be spiritual awakeningor say the women who were trying
to reconnect with their youthin a way, in each other and all these
things.
And here you have a guy like,really, really doing the work.
You know what I mean?
I mean, it's like asking,could I be an Asian girl?
Running down every indulgentfantasy that every character on the
(13:58):
show has indulged in in some way.
Right.
And so there's nothing left.
And then actually changing asa result.
You know, there's no.
Like, the Buddhism of it is not.
Somebody online pointed out, Idon't know, that he.
He may have been.
If he had had this crash outin a mostly Christian society or
mostly.
Whatever society he may haveturned to, whatever religion helped
(14:21):
him frame his need to recover.
You know, I think Buddhismfits it the best.
But I don't know.
It was like the work there.
The story is insane and thebest bit of the show so far.
But the actual work is notfun, not luxurious, not a hang at
the White Lotus.
(14:41):
The ease with which Rockwell delivers.
The ease and friendliness.
Like, this guy gets it andthen he just spills all this out.
And then we get Walton Goggins response.
He's not quite weirded out asmuch as like, shit, I need to process
this for a minute.
He just gets that look, youknow, I think we can describe his
performance there as a GIF factory.
(15:04):
I mean, we are now.
Which one?
Goggins.
We are now just loaded downwith reaction gifts for years to
come.
Gifts.
Yeah.
No, no, no.
Gif.
I should have said there tohighlight the difference.
I loved it.
I'm still.
I'm a little confused.
If we can continue just livingin that space that this guy who has
(15:27):
had a.
Some sort of spiritualawakening, is still presumably giving
his friend a gun.
In a bag.
There's probably more in thebag than just a gun.
We think he only wants thechamomile tea, but, yeah, he'll give
you some firearms.
That's fine.
Go kill your.
The guy who killed your father.
What a scene.
I mean, yeah, Rick is hisjourney Is it feels authentic in
(15:51):
a storytelling way.
You know, obviously, he's kindof speed running.
Enlightenment and personaldevelopment, maybe.
I mean, we don't know wherehe's gonna land.
But you don't.
You don't know how fast it is.
Have you ever released a bunchof snakes?
Huh?
Do you not know how that, youknow, expedites your spiritualism?
A little gasoline on the fireof the awakening.
(16:13):
But it's.
It does feel.
It's.
It's rare that in a TV showpeople have, like, a real believable
arc and, like, a classicalstorytelling kind of way.
And we're riding with Rick,for sure.
Yeah.
I mentioned in the intro, Ithink Matt White probably had a lot
of fun writing that scene,constructing that one.
Oh, that By Monday.
(16:33):
Or maybe it was.
It may have been to use a bit.
I think it was Monday.
There was already merchandisewith the full monologue on it.
You told me you're gonna sendme one.
I'm still waiting.
Well, they.
They managed to somehow getthe entire thing not just on that
T shirt, but on a hat.
Oh, it's like, on, like, themain part where the artwork usually
is.
And obviously had to spillover to the bill as well, which I.
(16:55):
That's the kind of absurdistmerch that I am thankful that the
Internet exists for.
Yeah.
All right, well, let's getinto some of the other big plot.
Once camera check at the gateruined my idea that Tim was a red
herring.
Seems like he's got the gun.
I mean, not only does he havethe gun, but he's debating using
it on himself.
Suicide note and all.
You know, it's.
It's a recurring thing thatmany of these folks want to leave
(17:18):
behind what they've done wrong.
I don't know that Saxon andLachlan have yet.
They may be too naive to havesuch thoughts.
Well, they're on the.
The beginning of the arc thattheir dad is reaching the conclusion
of.
Right, Right.
Yeah.
They're in the middle of thefun part.
They're not going to regret it yet.
No.
Do you think.
And I have not dove in online.
(17:40):
There may be an actual answer,but when he has the gun to his head,
you hear a click.
Is that click him trying tofire it, or is it him pulling it
away?
I.
I don't know.
I didn't notice it, nor have Iseen anything that would explain.
Okay, just curious.
Piper wants to leave behindher past.
(18:01):
She's not necessarily thinkingshe's done anything wrong.
The thing is, she's just not Chinese.
I mean, why is she gonna go tolive in Taiwan?
Why would she want to staythere in Taiwan?
Did you know Charles Mansonand Bill Clinton wrote books?
New information every week onthe white Lotus?
That was so good.
Now.
That was good.
(18:22):
It's so funny that we kind ofstarted out like, oh, gosh, she's
kind of annoying.
This accent's just too thick.
She's, oh, come on.
Let's dial it down.
But now when she's on screen,I'm just like, I can't wait for her
to utter something so stupidin her very white point of view.
Well, we could be arriving.
Oh, I know.
We're arriving at one thing.
We could be arriving at 2.
(18:43):
The one that's the maybe is.
Is this a Lucille Bluth situation?
Has she been pulling thestrings all along?
Does she know what's going onwith her husband?
Because she clearly, like, canhardly be bothered to give a.
That he's clearly goingthrough something.
She's honestly pullingsomething that is very realistic
(19:03):
for wives to pull.
And I think my wife does it.
It's where she knows you're upto something, but it.
It's not worth talking about.
I think it could be that, butI don't think that she is naive enough
to say, you want to stay in Taiwan.
You want.
You know what I mean?
I think she's, like, playingit up for.
(19:23):
The easiest way for her tomove through her social space is
to kind of be.
To have to play that role, youknow, and that there's a smarter
human under there that maybe is.
I mean, one read would beshe's manipulative.
Another is that she's justtrying to survive.
It wouldn't surprise me ifnothing comes of this idea or if
(19:45):
it turns out that she's been,like, stashing cash away, anticipating
his downfall.
They taught her in thesorority at Duke to be.
To play the dumb girl.
Yeah.
I mean, is it not somethingthat we see southern women have to
hopefully less and less astime goes on, but that there is a
certain expectation there, andthen maybe even you can judo that
(20:07):
into some form of power.
Oh, just take a lorazepam.
Yeah.
Fabian's back.
He gets something to do, andit's that he's going to remind gaytok
he's not at his post andlisten, though not heed Belinda's
warning of how dangerous Gregprobably is.
That situation is the same askind of wondering, like, how much
(20:29):
does Victoria know?
You know, like when Belindagoes to him and says, this could
be dangerous.
Yeah, I think I know who thisguy is?
Yeah.
Does that imply that they'rein on it somehow?
Yeah, that's thought.
That's a good theory.
Plenty of characters, though,who don't listen and don't understand.
(20:50):
So is he fitting a motif?
Is he really that dumb?
Is he oblivious?
Or is he playing along with Greg?
As Greg came to the.
To the desk and said, look,this lady's gonna probably gonna
come and ask about me.
Just play dumb.
At some point in the season,they said you have to be a guest
to go to the hotel.
You can't just wander in andhave dinner or whatever.
Yet Greg is not a guest.
(21:11):
And is there pretty often.
Does this imply that there'ssome relationship there?
Is he just the.
He's so rich and lives up thehill, just let him in.
Or is there some deepermeaning there?
Greg's palled around with somegay folks.
He may be gay, he may be bisexual.
Fabian might be gay.
(21:31):
I meant more like they'rerecovering international crimes.
But yeah, it could alsoscratch my back.
You scratch, you know?
Yeah.
Back scratching.
Going on.
Belinda's hidden predatorturns out to be a lizard.
And I don't know what kind ofmetaphor that is, but one of the.
Scarier ideas so far is thatshe slept in the same room with that
thing for lizard days.
(21:52):
It's not gonna hurt you.
I don't want a lizard in my room.
I have one in my house right now.
I know you send us picturesall the time.
Yeah, he's great.
But when he.
I don't want him runningaround scurrying about.
That's true.
The ladies, Kate, Jacqueline,and Lori engage the Russian dudes
in conversation.
Man, that guy.
What was his.
(22:12):
Vlad cracked me up.
Now this is when the.
The White lotus is cooking.
You know, they're having thesenormal conversations you might have
while partying.
And yet it turns to him, everyopportunity he gets, he brings up
how horrible his life is inthe stereotypical Russian fashion.
My.
My mother died.
(22:33):
You know, everything is like,hey, we're having fun.
Yeah, well, I lived in poverty.
The partying was.
Everything about that was like.
You just.
You felt it, you know, the onefriend just being ready to go to
bed and trying to shepherdeverybody else through the experience.
One person going too far.
(22:53):
And then just the sense ofdanger, like we're supposed to feel
that these women are marks insome way.
You know, something awful isgoing to happen.
But then kind of zooming outand thinking, well, why would he
crime at his place of business?
You know, he's obviouslyalready let him in they're, like,
stealing things from the giftshop or whatever.
(23:14):
We're supposed to assume that.
I think he may just hop fromcountry to country or place to place
and do this.
It's kind of what they do.
I think the simplest solutionis that they're already getting theirs.
They've already crimed.
Right.
So why not just, like, partyand hook up with.
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
That's the simplest solution.
(23:34):
That's.
I like that one.
Yeah.
Vlad.
Everyone, you know, dives inthe pool, underwear, except for Lori,
who goes topless.
And then Vlad just comesrunning out butt naked.
He's having a great time.
I mean, he.
He grew up, you know, with ahorrible Russian life.
He's ready to party.
Here's what.
What Jacqueline does wrong in.
(23:54):
In that she cheats on herhusband and she cheats on her friend
Lori, Right?
Because she was encouraginghim and her to hook up Valentin and
her.
So she sleeps with Valentineto kind of have control.
I'm the head here.
It's not really so much anattraction, though.
She probably thinks that she'sdeluded herself into probably thinking
(24:16):
that.
Well, and they made thispretty clear with the.
The dancing scene where shesees the younger women watching her
and she really leans into it,as they say.
I wouldn't be surprised ifthere's also an element of what was
said at the top that this islike an.
Having some agency againstaging, you know, like, well, if.
(24:36):
If we were really old, wouldwe be able to party all night and
then hook up with these?
You know, it's control overboth the friend group and her own
mortality, in a way.
Yeah.
Well said.
Which we all try to do one wayor another.
Good ways and bad.
You know, episode one, we.
We asked, oh, God, is this anincest family?
(24:57):
Are the Ratliffs incest?
And last week, Adam said no.
The show is a type to go there.
Well, here we have Sax andLachlan on the dope and then kissing
one another a little bit morethan they probably should.
You know, it's not just I dareyou to kiss peck.
They.
They kind of return to the kiss.
Right.
You know, if we are.
I want to talk about a lotabout their partying because there
(25:21):
was some really comical thingsthat happened.
Hey, I've set you a pic drive.
To the basket, but I think thekiss is less.
It was uncomfortable to watch.
Right.
Like, as a viewer, you watchthese people behave badly for two
and a half seasons now.
You're so biased againstincestuous people.
(25:41):
Yeah.
This is an okay place to bebut watching it, it felt kind of
like we were talking about thehookup being like a.
A power thing more than anything.
Which hookup?
Valentin?
Yep.
Whereas this, to me, it feelslike Saxon has been like the.
(26:05):
The big brother in charge.
And I mean, Lachlan even tellshim early in this episode, like,
I can't remember the exactphrasing, but I'm gonna get you one
day.
I'm going to rise above you.
And I think this was him, youknow, Saxon takes him out and the
day starts with him justtrying to convince his little brother
to have a beer.
And now, many beers later,many drinks later, the drugs appear
(26:27):
and go right down the hatchfor little bro.
The note and Saxon, Saxonthrowing up that X with his arms.
What does he say?
This is a drug free zone.
You know, he's just like, yeah.
And he says, I'm the drug.
I am the drug.
Yeah.
What an idiot.
It was so funny.
It's like those guys you wentto college with where you're just
like, hey, man, we're goingout to the bar.
And he's like, I don't drink.
(26:49):
Weightlifting's my high.
Yeah.
Except he does drink.
Yeah.
Well.
Well, okay.
Well, in this case, it's drugs.
Yes.
Yep.
The drinking, that's.
It's a very southern reactionin a way, you know, Southern frat
boy kind of version of that.
The kiss, I think was littlebrother saying, you.
You thought that you had toshow me the ropes on all this stuff,
(27:11):
and I am.
You're posturing in a way, andI'm willing to make you very uncomfortable.
Back to that control thing.
Yeah.
Now I have control.
It's a very Freudian assertionof who's taken over the pecking order
there.
Literal.
Just a little peck.
(27:32):
Speaking of control, I don'tknow that Greg's gonna be happy with
his girlfriend using his boat,controlling his belt to.
To bond with these kissing andidiotic brothers.
It gives him.
It gives him another reason tobe the predator, not the prey, though.
I don't.
I just don't see him holdingan automatic weapon.
(27:52):
I can't picture him doing that.
I mean, we'll see.
I think it was.
He'll pay somebody.
It was rightly pointed outthat Chloe, you know, we keep talking
about Greg Gary as this kindof the apex predator of the show
at the moment, but Chloe hasmanipulated her way somehow into
this relationship with him.
(28:15):
She's not as just happens tobe there, happen to start dating
this rich guy as maybe we should.
We're led to believe in thefirst Episode now.
Her name's Chloe.
What's her friend's name?
Rick's girlfriend, Chelsea.
Oh, I get that confused.
Chelsea, I think, is like amoral compass on the show.
Yeah.
You know, and her reaction,her reaction to the kiss, before
(28:38):
we completely leave the kissin the rear view mirror.
Donovan, he doesn't want toleave the kissing brothers.
But her, her reaction was hilarious.
So well acted and just like,what the hell is going on here?
Yeah, it's good stuff that,that Rick gets the reaction of the
week and as does Chelsea, his girlfriend.
(28:59):
She does.
And she is in a moment whereeverybody's like kind of doing the
party.
We're going to do whatever wewant, you know, shed our skin, kind
of jump into the, the moralgray area.
She's like, no, I'm, I'msticking with Rick, you know, even
though he's not here.
Whereas Chloe, you have towonder, like, I don't think it's
just I want to hook up withthis kid.
(29:20):
It's, there's something moreto it, I think.
Oh, okay.
And she presents it as, youknow, I'm dating Greg.
He's, he's old.
He's the rich bastard.
You know, it gives me the lifeI love, but I want the young guys
to play with and for sex and stuff.
It could be as simple as that.
I just, yeah, I sensesomething more devious.
(29:42):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Last week I mentioned that theshow asked how many resentments is
going to break you?
And this week it seems to beabout the, the wrongdoing that develops
the resentments.
At least here in this partyvote, the reveal of who kills whom
feels like it's going to be abigger shock this season than previous
(30:03):
seasons.
And that's kind of what I gotat when we be, when we started.
And you know, some of theseback half episodes might be even
better, at least in terms ofshock, than season one or two.
I mean, there's motive allover the place, right?
Yeah.
Good job of setting up motive for.
Everyone if you're willing to,you know, pin the string on the board
(30:27):
and start making some connections.
Everybody's only like at mosttwo or three away from an act of
violence outside of like Piper.
See, I could see her.
Even if they really wanted tobe a really twisty.
Chelsea's about the only one Ican't see.
(30:47):
I could see her standing byRick and some, you know, that's fair.
He gets himself into a pickleand she says, well, I don't know
what he's done, but that's my Guy.
So.
Yeah, here we go.
I hope Rick and Chelsea liveto see another season.
But.
Yeah, well, when it comes tosurprises, we'll wrap up one of the
(31:08):
big surprises.
Or I suppose one of the showswas some of the bigger surprises
with the finale of Severance.
Here we go.
Spoilers for it.
Cold harbor.
Last episode this season.
So spoilers going forward in case.
In case a listener is unawarethat you're in spoiler section.
It's okay.
At the very least, we get it again.
(31:29):
The finale gives us what weall needed, whether we wanted it
or not.
It's Milchek dancing for more gifts.
Man, he has the moves.
That guy can dance.
Man, he.
He shimmies.
Little reveal.
I.
I backed it up to watch a fewof those movies.
I hit the rewind.
He, he, he does such a good job.
Cuz I can't think of the actoroff the top of my head.
(31:52):
I apologize.
ML last name he play.
He's Trman is his name.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you.
He just keeps the same pokerface on the entire time, which is
what makes it really bad.
Choreography and movement.
Yeah.
And well, speaking of, youknow, he's there with.
(32:13):
He's got to act opposite of a animatronic.
Keir Egan.
Kudos for that.
Right?
Man, the spotlight, the fake crowd.
I like that they gave us acouple of those wonderfully surreal
touches as we say goodbye tothis season.
It's like it's, it's, it's.
It's like a weird corporate retreat.
Two people.
(32:33):
Not to be our stereotypical selves.
But I kept thinking if youtake away the reaction shots from
Mark and Helly in that scene,that's pure David Lynch.
But the reaction shots kind ofbring us a little bit down to less
surreal and more like, whatthe going on here?
Yeah, I have to say that much.
(32:54):
Like with your White Lotusassessment, we are jumping straight
into what I consider to thedessert of this episode, which is
Tramille Tillman's entire performance.
The dance, so good.
But it's kind of early in theepisode, to be fair.
It is, but it's kind of all ofa piece, right?
Like he leaves.
He leaves.
Dealing with Dylan reappearingafter, you know, Dylan does not any.
(33:17):
Dylan does not expect to comeback to life.
And suddenly is confrontedwith that.
And away he goes, Milchicksprinting down the hallway.
Yeah, but why?
We don't know yet.
And then this variety starts up.
That may be one of thefunniest things this show has done
for me is when he slides thatenvelope over for Dylan to read.
(33:39):
He sprints, and you don't know why.
And he's just like, what the fuck?
He's just like, my day'sreally packed.
Zoom.
Now we are set up to know thatthe entire company is watching him.
The Cold harbor is, like, oneof the biggest days in Lumen history.
Pressure's own.
I got a lot of.
A lot on my plate right now.
That's the energy there.
(33:59):
Like, I can't deal with your paperwork.
I got a lot on my plate right now.
The way he sprints, the.
You're talking about the animatronic.
Can we get in the weeds here?
Was there consciousness in.
Right.
Is it a script or is it response?
Well, Helly looked at it totry to see what you're thinking there.
Yeah.
She definitely gave it the.
(34:19):
The gaze into the eyes.
Like, what's in there?
Well, this sets up whatthey're trying to accomplish with
Cold Harbor.
Right.
Like, is this an early,limited version of them trying to
animate Kier's consciousness?
Huh?
Yeah.
It was so weird.
You know, Keir Egan was a CEOuntil his death.
If you note that plaque on thewall that begins the episode, I don't
(34:40):
know how important that was,but they certainly gave it to you.
I think he might have had topause it to really get the dates
correct, and which I mighthave done.
Mean, he's the.
He's the big man.
Yes.
Kerrigan, how much stock doyou put into the opening credits?
Because we don't get John Turoas a literal baby, or do we get him
as a figurative one?
Whatever that represents orsupposed to be.
(35:02):
Well, and it evolves over thecourse of the season.
Right.
I'm sure that there's now,like, a super cut of.
You can watch them all back toback, which I should have done before
we sat down, but he's.
He's in it a lot.
Animatronic or not, Jay, Meganand Kerrigan are both scary.
I thought it was just a sweettouch to have Haley's dad be even
(35:24):
creepier by.
By using a different cameraangle than they gave you, I think
last week.
Kind of gives you the notionthat he's not there.
Or Helly imagined him and, youknow, you're thinking, oh, maybe
she didn't see him last week.
Nope.
There's the father of the yearright there.
He's still there.
He's been watching, sayingweird shit.
(35:45):
He likes to watch.
Yes, he does.
I still find it interestingthat the Enies think of no longer
working as death.
And, you know, we have thatword for its termination.
You've been terminated.
It echoes that sentiment.
But it's such a capitalisticidea or late stage capitalism even.
(36:07):
You are your job.
Without it, you're dead.
It seems as if there would beat least one innie that would voice
that, well, I do have an Audi.
I'm going to continue eventhough I won't know it or be a part
of it per se.
But I think they've used thetwo seasons to set up the vast differences
in the two.
(36:27):
Yes.
And it's a good job.
I just, I don't know, I justwould have suspected at least one
of them to maybe brieflymention it.
But yes.
No, it's not because theyhaven't done a good job of setting
all this up.
They earn that a bit with, youknow, we have to go back before Mark
shows up at work again to thebirthing cabin and how great that
(36:48):
whole.
The idea of, of the video.
And I love that they use the,what, late 90s, early 2000s technology
there of him filming himself.
Yeah.
To highlight all of the Audi coble.
Devin and Mark's attitudeabout the Ennis slowly gets betrayed
(37:12):
in the language that they use.
And that Audi Mark can't evenbe bothered to get Helly's name right.
You know, in the way thatDevin the sister says, there's a
moment where any Mark realizesthis is going to kill me and she
kind of reacts like, yeah, wewere hoping you weren't going to
(37:32):
notice that, you know, And Ithink that those two, the name being
wrong and that reaction gavehim every right to, to say, like,
do these people have my best interest?
Yeah.
At heart.
Like, why should I sacrificemyself for them?
Because I have a differentautonomy than, than Audi Mark does.
(37:52):
And is that even a good guy?
I don't know.
Yeah.
The conversation between Markwork Mark and outside Mark really
drives home how different they are.
And I was thinking, okay, isit just the love interest that separates
them?
Is that strong enough?
Is any Mark more evil?
Is he more brainwashed byLumen shit?
(38:15):
I mean, I think you run intothe same thing with Dylan.
Right.
Like he writes the letterabout I want you to continue existing
because you're a version of methat I aspire to.
I think any Mark could.
I don't know that he believeshe's a better version than Audi,
but he certainly believes thathe is a different person.
I was, I was gonna saybasically what Adam said, like, I
(38:38):
think they've done the work.
So that's.
It's not even that you have toso much be like, oh, like is obviously
the.
Like is.
He is like any mark bit morethis or that or the other.
But just like they're like.
They're different people andwe've been shown that they're different
and over and over again, justlike Audi not getting Helly's name
(38:59):
right.
Like, you literally havenothing in common with me besides
our body.
Because we don't share thesame experiences.
We don't share memories, wedon't share anything.
We just.
We just happen to beaccidentally in the same flesh.
Prison at the same time sometimes.
Donovan, how much of you atwork is you at home?
(39:20):
Right.
No, I'm asking.
Oh, me probably.
Well, you at work loves Taylor Swift.
I gotta put on a smile on myface for.
For everyone who walks in.
You know.
See, I can do that at home.
Yeah.
I find it hard sometimes somedays to.
To have a work Persona.
Huh.
A lot of this episode inparticular is about living.
(39:42):
Not like life, but like livingand the beliefs of what living are
missing.
His friends at work deeplyconcerns any Mark and deeply concerned
Any Dylan too, with.
With Irv.
No.
Any, though Express, unlessI'm forgetting, expresses that stopping
(40:03):
the job is just a black screenor mentions an afterlife.
I find it something that theworkers are so full of uncertainty
about what's going to happento us or just don't want anything
to happen to them.
But the Lumen and Egan folksare just zealots.
Like, they have the steelconviction that endangers them and
(40:24):
everyone with a contact likethe abandoned town and all.
Yeah, I'm not really sure what to.
Follow up on there, but.
But to add to that, you know,with the whole afterlife idea and
how no one's mentioned it, wedo get both marks talking to one
another, presented with iceand fire.
(40:44):
So whether or not they believein an afternoon afterlife or not,
they've certainly watched Gameof Thrones.
Yeah, there's a little bit ofhints right, from the Lumen people
because they're like, youwon't be with care now, you know.
Right.
No, they can find cures, right.
In the.
They're zealots, which is acomment on zealotry, I think.
But yeah, it is kind ofinteresting, right?
(41:06):
Like, you kind of wonder.
I think they've got a job done.
A good job of this was likethey give the Innies little hints
of what their outies are like.
What's the.
What's the mythology of lifeoutside the severed floor?
I think the Innies also areshown to always question, maybe too
Strong a word.
But, you know, there is anideology there for them.
(41:26):
You know, the zealots are presenting.
These are the ways that youlive, the tempers, whatever.
They have a whole area thatyou can go and pay your respects
to the mythology.
But they kind of treat thewhole thing like.
Like a corporate presentation,even though they don't have the outside
(41:47):
consciousness to know they'redoing it.
You know what I mean?
Like, they're like, yeah, wekind of have to look at this because
we work here.
But none of them seem like.
Irv seems early on to respectall of that.
And the rest of them are justkind of like, yeah, whatever, I'm
just here for the paycheck.
Wouldn't it be fascinating ifchurch was like that, where they
gave pie charts and had a presentation?
(42:09):
What church are you going to?
They're not doing that.
None.
Oh, the ones I went to as akid just basically told me I was
going to hell no matter what, so.
Right.
Well.
And then the churches that aredefinitely involved in tax fraud,
those are the churches that.
That have pie charts for their members.
You can see where therighteous gemstones versions of church,
(42:31):
I suppose.
Why do they need 25 versionsof Gemma?
I mean, 15.
Not enough.
10.
Corporate greed.
We still don't really have agood why for what they're doing.
Right.
They give us a little drip of,oh, it's his war against pain, which
is like, okay, well, then theether makes sense, right?
(42:52):
Like if Kira's.
And then like the.
The baby crib, right.
Has associations with not hersevered self, but her whole.
Her.
Her outie self.
But we don't really.
Like.
I don't really.
I didn't see the threadthrough what all those other.
What they were building withthose other personalities.
Except torturing this poor woman.
(43:14):
Oh, yeah.
I mean, are they trying to.
However the data works,however the numbers work, are they
somehow creating aconsciousness for her?
Like a severed version?
That is.
I mean, it seems simple.
Like, the idea is, let'sremove all of that from her brain
and then send her out into the world.
(43:35):
But I don't really know howthat stops you from having more bad
experiences that cause pain.
You know what I mean?
Like, what's the plan for,like, really pain proofing a life
Ether.
Ether.
Turns out they had thesolution in front of them the whole
time.
Yeah.
Stick to the basics.
(43:55):
Huff glue in a van like Godwanted you to.
I love the horror movie tone.
When Mark and Haley were backat the.
At the office.
Yeah, it had a lot of thosescenes just had pure horror movie.
I loved it.
They did such a good job ofboth bolstering and undercutting
(44:16):
the horror.
Especially like with that, youknow, like.
And I think a lot of that goesto, to Milchick.
Let's, let's say, you know,the, the when it switches over to
like the marching band andeverything, like again, it like undercuts
the horror, but at the sametime it kind of like weirdly ramps
it up because it's like whatis happening here?
(44:39):
Yeah, well.
And I thought of when you saidhorror movie.
You know, there's one thingwhen Helly sits down with her back
to that animatronic here.
There is zero chance I'mputting my back to that.
Yeah, no, I mean I felt thatviscerally on like that feeling of
I could be stabbed at anytime, you know.
(45:00):
But watching Mr.
Milchick kind of snap thewhole thing out of the horror movie
was comedic.
He's running down the hallwayand he.
He literally uses a remote tolike put it back to the dull office
lighting.
That was so funny.
He did such a good job.
I'm just.
For a guy who spends most ofhis episode in one place or between
two rooms.
(45:20):
He was so.
He was so good.
I mean he spent his entire dayafter talking to Mark on the phone
in the previous episode as aone man party planning committee.
Yes.
And he put all of this together.
Yeah.
Swank's gone, man.
He's on his own.
He's got to do it.
I did see one interestingtidbit online in a.
(45:41):
An interview with Tramell Tillman.
He's saying that the, youknow, the marching band moved like
a HBCU marching band.
Yes.
Huh.
And he said that that is to beread as Milchick asserting his independence.
Whoa.
Yeah.
But there one read on it wouldbe they're kind of getting him to
(46:02):
like, oh, let's make the blackguy dance.
You know what I mean?
Right.
Yes.
A gross racist history.
And instead he's taking thatand asserting his own agency, which
I thought was very interesting.
That is good.
That's.
I like that because I feellike there was more of the kind of
like.
I mean it's, it's interestingyou brought that up because like
(46:22):
in the interactions betweenlike the kiraton automaton and Mr.
Belichick, there seemed to be,you know, like it got increasingly
frosty, you know, and itseemed to be overtones that like
you're getting above yourstation, you know, like you're getting
to, you know, know your place.
Yes.
And his Reaction is definitelysomebody who is not backed away from
(46:44):
the edge of, you know, tellinghis superior to eat shit.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
He's still got the same energy.
He's.
He's riding that high.
Yeah, yeah.
It's interesting because healso buys into the Lumen, Egan religion,
whatever you want to call it.
And I think we have toquestion at this point how much he
(47:05):
does, you know, him.
And, you know, episode one,season one, he's all in.
Yeah, he has changed from thatepisode, but I do think we can say
he, at least so far,faithfully discharges his duties.
And is there a day when thatwill not happen?
But I think for right now,despite whatever he feels inside,
(47:25):
he's still gonna.
He's still.
He's still a company man.
Some people have posted thepicture of, you know, like a door
with the security latch, but it's.
It's a Cheeto instead of likean actual secure system.
Like, what security on thesevered floor has just been non existent.
It's the same security guyletting them in every day.
(47:46):
And I guess because of thenature of.
They think of them as littlechildren that can be easily controlled.
Like, how much oversight isMilchek really undergoing?
Like, he has to go in for hisperformance review, but he's really
just been ratted out by his assistant.
Right.
And like, Kobel clearly had alot of irons in the fire and was
kind of out of control from Lumen.
(48:07):
So I think Milchek has thepossibility to dominate season three,
kind of acting as like a rogueindependent force.
You stole my next sentence.
Which was the good news iswe're going to probably get a lot
of Milchick next season.
That seems to be the promise.
He seems to be the one becausehe is whole in both places.
(48:29):
Right.
He's the only one that's thego between between any and Audi and
has a clear picture of what'sgoing on and seems to be jumping
off the train.
Mm.
Cobalt, you're still like, what?
You still have some evil intention?
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
There's no doubt about that.
Good balance of horror.
And then into action.
I saw.
(48:49):
I felt no jolt or jarring ofgoing from one to the other, though
they do have a lot in common.
Oh, I.
I have a question, though.
A little shift here from us.
Is Dylan the type.
Audi.
Dylan, I suppose the type touse the word indecorous.
That did not fit.
Really.
I thought that was kind oflike again with his, like, little
(49:11):
sugar, you know, it's likefirst you.
Your behavior with my Wife.
Right.
But Audi Dillon can't evenbake cookies.
That doesn't mean he doesn'tknow a word.
That's true.
He doesn't want to bake cookies.
He doesn't want to do theeffort to bake cookies.
But.
Well, no, he sat down and wrote.
(49:32):
This letter because he's mad.
Yeah, I'll.
I applaud Erickson, writer,creator, Stiller, all of them, on
upending the status quo.
You know, there's just no waythings are going to remain the same.
And it's even more so than thefirst season.
In the first season's ending, it's.
(49:54):
They've upended to where youjust can't have certain things reset.
There's no going back.
Yeah, I really respect showsthat do that, are able to do that.
It reminded me of, like, I wasreading an interview with Alan Moore
when he took over Swamp Thing,and he completely changed kind of
what.
What was going on in the comic.
(50:15):
And he's like, the reason Idid it is because, like, you know,
characters, if the character'sgoals are ever fulfilled, then the
comic ends, right?
Then he has no.
Nothing to do.
And so, you know, the audiencekind of kind of knows that it's.
It's a tease, right?
Like, oh, he's never gonnaaccomplish it.
And I.
And then taking and taking itin a new direction lets you do new
(50:38):
things and also lets theaudience know that, like, hey, now,
this character may actually begoing somewhere.
And so I really respect.
You know, it's kind of likethe Fugitive, right?
Like, if he solves themystery, the show is over.
But for.
For the show, I think Mad Mendid it.
I think Breaking Bad did it.
I think a lot of good shows do it.
They're willing to flip thetable and.
(50:59):
And so you, you know, and sowe're not stuck in the, like.
Well, I know it's never goingto happen because if they do that,
then this show that they makemoney off of is going to end.
Yeah.
We get any.
Mark getting one of hisdesires fulfilled, he runs off with
Heli in the end.
I mean, that was subversive tothe point of almost sad or disappointing.
(51:20):
You know, he chooses heli.
And it's so nicely set up inthe Gemma episode that we kind of
have.
We love her in a way and wecare about her now.
I do wish we would have hadone more big emotional reminder about
Mark and Gemma.
But as it was, it was reallygood still that he chooses Heli.
(51:40):
It was just.
It was a lightning bolt.
It was a.
It was a strike.
You could just see him lookingout that door at Gemma and hearing
Bobby Hill in his head going,I don't know you, you really good.
Somebody made a gif where heis looking at her through the door,
through the glass.
And then he looks back atHelly and over.
Helly is in post season threeand he walks toward.
(52:03):
That was the only moment wherethat is a great scene.
But it's like, well, of coursehe has to deal with her because I
already know that season threeis going to happen.
So this is the way to achievemaximum conflict there.
Although everything leading upto that, I still think we're back
at like Orpheus here.
You know, he goes down intohell and grabs Gemma and as Audi
(52:25):
Mark down there.
And if you really clock howmany different versions of him it
takes to pull this off, it's fantastic.
And how many permutations ofMark and Gemma are together just
in the brief time they are.
Yeah.
It's a lot of math.
Wow.
You know, you said, I wish I'dmade that connection.
That is fantastic.
You said, Blaine, that youwish there'd been one more emotional
(52:48):
something to.
Yeah.
To really grab onto with Markand Gemma.
And I think that when sheleaves the cold harbor severed area
and her face changes andthey're reunited.
Yeah.
I mean that was so, so good.
That was as good as any.
Mark's heart wrenchingdecision on the.
The floor above.
(53:09):
You know that when you really.
I think especially if you hadbinged the show as people will do
in the future and you knowthat this guy starts thinking his
wife is dead and all of asudden it's not just her body but
like she's back right in frontof him.
That's a really overwhelmingemotional moment.
Somebody's come back from thedead and they embrace and it's like,
(53:31):
okay, now.
Oh, we gotta run.
Yeah.
And then he has to.
To usher her through.
I think it's also proof thatany Mark is a good guy.
Right.
Like he told them that hewould get Gemma through the severed
floor and to the fire escape.
He doesn't say that he'scoming with her.
Yeah.
You know, well, I, I questionhow much of any Mark choosing hilly
(53:53):
was a big fuck you to Audi Mark.
Because of their argument.
That's totally what it is.
But it's also some love orattraction to Helly.
Sure.
You know, he was promised thathe could have those memories.
Yep.
You know, once the procedure'sdone and all of that.
But you know, he even pushesback against that like, am I gonna
(54:13):
Be you for part of the day andme for part of the.
You know, how does that even work?
It's an awfully cruel way to spite.
It's very cruel.
And I thought that Helly isthe most selfless person in the episode.
Yeah.
You know, she sends Mark toget Gemma.
She says, you have to go, essentially.
(54:34):
And she says something like,I'm me, or I'm her or I'm her.
And so the question that I.
When I first watched it, Ithought, well, she's saying, no matter
what, I am tied to Lumen, youknow, there's nothing I can do to
escape whatever's gonna playout later.
But other people read it asher saying, I'm her.
(54:56):
I am Audi.
Mark feels about this womanthe way that you feel about me, and
you have to go help her andhelp him.
But they're alreadyintroducing the fact that Helly cannot
get away from Helena by herdad showing up and saying, this is
the real version of the Eganthat we want.
(55:17):
He even says the creepy stuffabout he has other kids right in
the shadows.
Yeah.
Which I think is tied to what?
The cobalt interaction withthe security guard at the birthing
cabins in the previous episodewhere she says, oh, we're going to
the specific.
Whatever.
Super happy they didn't killthe goat.
(55:37):
Cute goat.
I like goat.
I do too.
I don't want that worked out.
Worked out as good as it could.
Poor Iceland.
Oh, Drummond.
Did we really feel bad for Iceland?
Yeah.
Didn't you see the nice thingsthat he said in somebody somewhere?
I assume that he just.
That this is the severedversion of the nice guy we saw in
(55:58):
somebody somewhere.
That's how acting works.
Right?
So Sam is like waiting in the park.
Yeah, exactly.
He's never coming back.
Somebody who's never coming back.
Hey, he's a fine actor.
He can give us a big lovableteddy bear and he can give us menacing
drumming.
Yeah.
I mean, if you can literallydo two completely opposite things
and then I'm watching youwithin a couple months of each other
(56:20):
and it feels.
It's like you might be good atyour job.
I don't know.
They also really let kudos toeverybody involved for letting him
beat the ever loving out of Mark.
You know, when you see they'rein this enclosed space and like maybe.
I mean, Mark's smaller, youknow, he runs kind of goofy, but
maybe he can get away from him.
And then you just see that bighand come out and throw him into
(56:43):
the wall.
It's like, this isn't gonna go well.
For us, poor Mark's fallen outof shape in the last two years from
drinking and grieving over his wife.
Thank God Gwendoline Christiewas there to save the day.
Even in this last episode,which I think leaned more to the
drama.
They just have these greatepisodes of comedy, like, where that
(57:05):
fight in the hall was verywell shot.
I would go so far as to saythat it felt brutal.
Right.
You're right there when he hitthe wall.
Oh, yeah.
But so, like.
And it's like.
Oh, like it's.
It's visceral, but also like,it all gets kicked off with.
He opens the door and Mark's,like, trying to climb the.
It's so funny.
Yeah, it's so.
And.
And.
And I.
I just like this episode especially.
(57:28):
Did such a good job with that,like, those two underlying tensions
of, like, the humor and then,like, the.
The.
The.
Which, like, they.
They kind of both undercuteach other, but done well.
They work together and createsomething new.
You got to give it to Adam Scott.
He went right back to hiscomedy roots for a second with that
(57:51):
look he gives.
Absolutely.
This gave a more satisfyingending to a season than season one.
It did.
I mean, season kudos to themfor season one because we couldn't
wait for this one to start again.
I can live for however long ittakes for them to make season three
now.
I think they've built such aworld that there's a lot to chew
(58:13):
on.
Right.
Part of that is, in seasonone, you can't really answer questions
because you're posing the questions.
And they did a wonderful jobof satisfying viewers while at the
same time giving us a coupleof new things to still ponder for
next season.
Taking the season as a whole.
(58:34):
One of my.
And we.
I talked about.
We talked about this a bunch,but I think I just loved how much
it wasn't a tease.
Like, yeah, there are somemysteries out there, but, like, I
didn't just feel like I wasgetting jerked around, you know,
and then they're like, waitfor season three.
You know, they really.
Actually, I think they did agood job of having, like, the individual
(58:55):
episodes work as individualepisodes because we care about the
characters and also propellingthe story meaningfully forward.
And it does a lot to, youknow, y'all talked about.
They're unafraid to knock down.
What would be the guidelinesfor another show, you know, like,
once you.
But it also.
(59:16):
Two scenes jump out at me.
One, when they kill.
When Mark kills Drummond.
Right.
Like a sudden explosion of violence.
Yeah.
And happens.
And it's like, oh, this is.
Yeah, people are dying.
You know, it's not just like,what if the secret of.
Of mistreating workers gets out?
Now there is a dead bodyinvolved and goat sacrifice before
(59:38):
that that has the chance ofleaking out.
And now we have a wholemarching band standing between Milch
and his escape and Dylan.
Don't look at Dylan, man.
Dylan.
Well, Dylan held the.
Held the door there.
But.
But the ability of heli to.
And maybe this is.
Her dad was right in someweird way.
She rallies this room full of people.
(01:00:00):
I mean, revolution isunderfoot, right?
Best show of the year so far.
Our short year so far.
Yeah.
For best show I've seen this year.
Yeah.
I think it taken as a whole sofar, it's number one.
Yeah.
Well, that's the end of thepodcast for this week.
We got great news though.
(01:00:21):
We have bonus material comingout Thursday for you.
If you didn't get enough,we'll be out on Thursday to talk
about the Netflix series Adolescence.
You're gonna get two in oneweek from us.
We really appreciate you listening.
And here's a thing you may not consider.
Podcasts are flying blindly.
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