April 1, 2025 • 42 mins
This week on Taking It Down, host Blaine begins with a welcome and how listeners can help the podcast (0:01).
Once co-host Adam joins, the podcast begins its non-spoiler section as the two hosts question where Donovan is (1:28) before quickly getting into news about 'The Pitt' on Max and what that news tells us about TV (1:59).
Also in non-spoilers is their conversation about the new Apple TV+ series 'The Studio' with Seth Rogen and if listeners should watch it (10:20). Before the break, they also discuss some non-spoilers on the sixth episode of the HBO show 'The White Lotus' (13:52).
After the break, it's time to dig into the spoilers. This week, it's only the sixth episode of 'The White Lotus,' which provides plenty of material as Blaine and Adam note its tantalizing tone (17:30).
To donate to the podcast and home site, use this link for Stripe or this link for Buy Me a Coffee. Any help is much appreciated!
For more from the site, visit this link for The Alabama Take.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey y'all.
We're taking it down theWorking Class TV podcast.
We're housed under the AlabamaTakes family of podcasts.
We'll give thoughts without specifics.
So you can take the first halfas recommendations or non spoilers
and then the back half will bethe detailed thoughts.
If you've seen what we'rediscussing or you just aren't averse
(00:22):
to spoilers.
I'm the host, Blaine.
I'm also the editor in chiefof the site the Alabama Take.
What we do here across thesite and with each podcast takes
time, effort and some moneyfor hosting websites in the shows.
If you have it in you whereyou can spare any money at all, or
a couple dollars or more, it'san incredibly generous way to say
(00:43):
that you support and enjoywhat we do.
You can click on the link onour site for donations or in the
podcast Show Notes as well.
You have your choice of usingeither stripe or buy me a coffee
and we thank you very, very much.
This week the topics include acontinuation of the White Lotus on
(01:03):
HBO and Max as well as justsome general talk about some things
in streaming.
At the top of this week'sepisode each Tuesday, I'm joined
by co hosts Adam and Donovan.
Donovan's absent this week,but let's get into the episode and
talk to Adam.
Take projection foreign helloto Adam as we start like we do each
(01:30):
week with no spoilers, noDonovan, because he doesn't do his
homework.
And if you're gonna work forproduction as big as and important
as taking it down, it'simportant to so many, you know, you
have to watch the fucking shows.
There's gotta be consequencesto misdeeds.
He's not fired.
You touch the stove, you gottanurse that burn for a little while.
(01:51):
He is in the corner with hisnose facing the corner.
Facing the corner.
Let's dive right in.
I found it interesting thisweek that HBO came out with news.
I know we all don't watch thePit, but it was about the Pit.
But it seems as though it isgood evidence for what we constantly
say on here, first of all.
Well, I'll just say a few things.
The Pit will have anotherseason as soon as January.
(02:13):
It's a lightning fast these days.
And the the other things areits two episode premiere this past
January was one of the fivemost watched debuts on Max.
That's shocking.
It's pretty big, right?
Yeah.
I do think everybody inconversation I'm with for the most
part is watching it.
Yeah, it has come uporganically irl, you know, out there
(02:38):
when we're touching grass andspeaking with other humans outside
of our boxes.
A few folks have said, oh,have you guys seen that?
Or they'll try to referencesomething that I have to say.
I haven't seen it yet.
Although the way that thealgorithm tends to do it ended up.
I can't remember if it wasTikTok or Instagram or something.
Some scene.
I don't know enough about theshow to say where they are, but I
(02:58):
would assume the trauma wardor the ICU or whatever is preparing
for an event that has happenedout in the world.
That's fair.
And it completely had me hooked.
They know that people are coming.
It made me think, obviously, Itrust Blaine.
We do the show together wherewe tend to watch what the other one
enjoys.
But I wasn't into the premise,I don't think.
(03:20):
But as soon as I saw a littlebit of it, I was.
I thought, yeah, I could watch this.
Yeah.
I think you're probably firstthought, much like mine when I heard
of the show in general wasthat medical dramas have this lovey
dovey aspect where the doctorsand nurses go home and pine for one
another.
It does not have that at allbecause they never go home.
(03:42):
It's just one shift.
Each hour is an hour in theirshift and it's chaotic and hard to
keep up with and.
But just super good week toweek TV is a lot of fun.
You know, I do understand nothaving money to subscribe to a bunch
of different streamingchannels, and I don't know that I'm
not there myself, but you kindof want to wait for all episodes
(04:05):
to drop and then that way youcan get your first month discounted,
maybe watch that series.
That's hyped.
So there is that.
I get why people stick with Netflix.
It's probably the leastcanceled of the streamers.
And it goes up all the time.
It does.
Netflix is chasing the pit.
Their medical show may be good.
(04:25):
The thing is, it's gonna hitNetflix all at once.
I doubt even if I like theNetflix show, I'll bring it up.
Over the course of threemonths, I've brought this show up
at least once a month forthree months.
There's something to be saidfor that.
The staying power of a weekly conversation.
Yeah.
The two shows that we have, Imean, we can say we enjoyed the most
are Severance and White Lotus.
(04:46):
At least discussing them witheach other.
Yeah.
This year so far, not the same.
If they all drop at once.
It's not.
It just takes the air out ofthe poor Show.
I feel so sorry for thecreators now that I've really gotten
waist deep into TV andthinking about tv.
It's just sad.
It's wild to me that Netflix,with its massive head start, now
(05:09):
it feels like I can rely onthem the least for quality.
Yeah.
Like I'm possibly even a bit suspect.
Me too.
Big time.
Which is why when Adolescencecame out, it had four episodes.
It was getting rave reviews,big time reviews from noted critics.
And I thought, well, it's onlyfour episodes and that's a lot of
(05:32):
rave reviews.
I'm going to.
You know, there's probablysomething to that, but everything
else is just so mid tier.
You know, Donovan and I talkabout it quite often on here.
You and I talk about it quiteoften on here.
It's.
I just think HBO and Apple TVhave a leg up on trusted creators.
I'm not.
I know you mentioned thealgorithm, but I think you're talking
about TikTok.
Yeah.
(05:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm not sure an algorithmcould have predicted the Pit for
Max specifically.
Yeah.
And Netflix, they seem to bejust taking the shotgun spray approach
with like, let's just do asmuch as possible.
If we get eyeballs for aweekend, great.
I mean, that seems like theirwhole objective, right?
It is.
(06:12):
And they get the money to lureoccasional decent things.
I suppose if I am picking amovie for the evening and we're going
through that like, it's notsomething new.
It's just like, what.
What's out there kind of thing.
Netflix is not.
That's on down the list ofplaces that I look at this point.
It is.
All of this has happened, like unconsciously.
(06:34):
You know, as someone whoadored when Netflix started their
streaming service, it's.
It's just weird.
I'm not so sure the impetusfor this very podcast didn't start
when you and I kept textingone another about House of Cards
second season.
Now that was a long before weeven considered recording anything.
(06:55):
We would have found that preposterous.
But yeah.
Was it around the same time?
I'd have to.
Everything's a blur.
But True Detective Season 1.
That's a good question.
Had to have been part of it too.
That's a really good question.
Maybe we can look that up.
I mean, you could tell me thatHouse of Cards was in anywhere from
2013-16.
(07:16):
You got it young.
It was 13 for season one.
April 2013.
No, season two.
Season two.
Season two when I jumped in,remember, I was playing catch up.
Season two predates TrueDetective season one.
By one year Almost.
Almost several months.
That's right.
So we have the season two ofHouse of Cards because I was behind
(07:36):
and you had recommended it.
Oh, it was great.
And I.
I think that show has gottenburied for a number of reasons, but.
Well, yeah, it's one of the.
The foundational shows of likethe streaming phenomenon.
Right?
Yeah.
And it was before the wordalgorithm was really a presence in
(07:57):
our vocabulary.
So it was like.
But it was very algorithmic.
Right.
It was made like they decidedpeople like David Fincher films and
Kevin Spacey and like they putit all together.
Yeah.
And you put the cut points atthe end of an episode to make you
dive back into the next one.
It really did feel like at thetime that they had, you know, say
you have a strip of film thatis a season of a show and you've
(08:21):
got 10 little slots thatyou've got to choose where they drop.
They just picked that up andmoved it slightly to the left so
that they cut a little bitearlier than most shows.
Everybody who has an ampleiPhone knows about the trim.
That's all they're doing.
The trim function.
Yeah, that's.
It was kind of genius.
And we were at a point whereMad Men and Breaking Bad and all
(08:44):
that good stuff were flying high.
I think we were prettypredisposed to prestige television.
And, you know, I didn't havelike an understanding of.
Because it didn't exist yet.
The hierarchy of where Netflixand HBO and Hulu and all of that
would eventually when anytimeNetflix won, it felt like a win kind
of for like a new technology.
(09:06):
Right.
Like a new era of.
Not like the plucky underdog,but kind.
Of a little bit.
I was still a very annoyedback then when someone would go on
Twitter, which was fine backin 2013, and like talk about episode
eight in the first night.
I'm like, I worked today.
I didn't.
I watched two episodes, tops.
(09:27):
Yeah.
But back to the pit.
It's sort of wild to me thatthey're also doing 15 episodes every.
Both seasons they're planning.
Obviously the first one isdoing 15 and they're going to do
15 again starting in January.
You know, streamers stick toabout 8 or 10, 10 the most, usually
for 30 minute shows.
I mean, you know what I'mgoing to rely on here?
Go ahead.
A fine quote from season oneof True Detective.
(09:49):
Time is a flat circle.
We're back to regular TValmost, aren't we?
Yeah.
Just on streaming, making abunch of episodes per season, except
it's on hbo.
Well, that's Some of ourfavorite, you know, we watch Max
the White Lotus every Sunday,which we're going to get into.
But we, I mean, that's justscooping it from HBO and using a
streaming service.
(10:09):
Yeah, but it doesn't, it's not15 episodes and it's not coming out
every year.
That's a different thing.
No, that's true.
From barely old to really new,Apple TV released two debut episodes
of the studio.
I don't think it was quietthis weekend.
It was like a week from whenyou may be hearing us.
And it's made of a list, people.
(10:29):
Alex Gregory, Peter Huick,Frida Perez, but most notably Seth
Rogen and his working partnerEvan Goldberg.
So those five made a show.
It's about a studio exec whogets promoted to the head of the
studio like in the first twominutes that happens.
And you know, obviously he'sgoing to make movies, right.
He's going to scramble to makesome movies.
(10:50):
I went into this episode onepretty hesitant, mainly questioning
is it one of those fun behindthe scenes comedies about Hollywood
or is it one of those patyourself on the back pieces about
Hollywood?
You know the type.
It's, it's where they'rereally proud of themselves and it's
a lot like a song being abouthow hard the song itself to write.
(11:10):
I've.
I've seen the Oscars.
Yes.
Well, I'm here to claim thatit is an absolute frenetic fun joy
to watch the.
I started the episode, episodeone, on the couch in the napping
position in case it didn't getme, in case it was more dud than
Rocket but.
Ready to drift away.
(11:31):
Ready to drift and turn the TV off.
But nope, it was good.
Very solid.
Rogan and Greenberg directedit and I think all the episodes.
And I just loved.
There's a lot of camera movement.
It's handheld almost to theextreme, constant swinging.
It makes for good tension, butit manages, it manages to crack wise
(11:51):
pretty constantly.
It's just got good pacing,pretty good jokes and an insane cast.
There are big names having fundoing little parts in this.
And I recommend might besomething worth discussing.
Not so sure.
I don't know, maybe it's gotsome neat things happening buried
in the comedy.
(12:12):
Yeah.
And enjoyably pokes at thereal theme of can you make art and
money with the same thing?
That's one of.
That's one of a topic we tendto talk about every now and again.
Yeah.
I'm intrigued by a Seth Roganled program ever as a guy who in
his mid-30s.
This isn't really like ashocking opinion, but I've enjoyed
the Seth Rogen career.
(12:33):
Yeah.
Perfect target audience forSuperbad when it came out.
Oh, yeah.
And then just seeing, seeinghim, like, mature through and remain
like, make good.
Seems to have made goodpersonnel decisions, you know, for
his former partner to be JamesFranco and now to be like, I can't
have anything to do with that guy.
Gotta keep moving, gotta growup, gotta.
(12:55):
Whatever.
He has my attention here.
This is my take on Seth Rogen.
I am constantly tentative onwatching anything with Seth Rogen,
and then a lot of times I doand I end up being.
No, this is good.
Yeah, he's a funny guy.
I don't.
Why do I think he's kind of annoying?
But yet when I watch him, I'mlike, no, he's not that annoying.
(13:17):
He's just kind of funny.
He has the potential.
The Persona could be annoying,but it ends up being funny most of
the time.
Kind of lovable at times.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
I.
I suggest the studio for our listeners.
This is our non.
Spoiler part where maybe youget recommendations.
Yeah.
High quality.
I went and told my wife thatshe should watch it.
It's.
It's a broad audience kind of thing.
(13:38):
You'll appreciate the love for Hollywood.
It also has old Hollywood,kind of like Quentin Tarantino does
to some of his movies.
Okay.
All right.
Of course, lately, we've goneweek to week with the White Lotus,
which aired episode six, Denials.
That's the latest one for us.
In case you're new.
We record on a Sundayafternoon, so there's a good chance
you may have seen an episode more.
(14:01):
As for episode six, though,this one built up some tension and.
But did not feel like a place.
Setter and built up sometension and released some.
We'll get there.
You know, this is why we watchthe show these last two episodes.
It's where character dynamicsbegin to cause some friction.
And that's why you watch it.
I think.
I think that's the biggestthing Mike White does for the White
(14:24):
Lotus.
Yeah.
I mean, even.
We kind of talk about the waythat the show will inevitably mimic
itself every time, you know,and you start again on a boat and
we have that great interactionthat we love, where Walter Goggins
is blowing cigarette smoke everywhere.
But you know that these peopleare going to hit the resort, separate,
(14:47):
and then somehow end upbouncing off each other.
And this is maybe the mostsatisfying collision course that
he's charted so far.
Could be.
I mean, they've been movingindependently of each other much
more in the last few seasonsor parties are kind of having their
own drama here.
They're mingling a lot more.
(15:08):
Adam, our podcast episodereleases on April Fool's Day.
You have a message for anyonelistening on Day of.
I think that we are the Aprilfool for continuing to discuss this
show in particular on Sunday afternoons.
Well, it hinders us for theobvious reason that most people will
have watched the next one.
But I mean, I feel like we'relike recording a show about the Super
(15:29):
Bowl, 4 o'clock before theykick it off.
I mean, it is what it is.
This is all of the Sundaynight and you know, once at least.
Yeah, it's week to week,somebody goes back and watches the
White Lotus, they can listen along.
I think we do have people whocome back and listen along.
I don't.
I really do.
We always get a comment or anemail about the White Lotus coverage
(15:52):
and not the other stuff.
It's the way it's got to be.
It just is.
I am looking forward to thisevening's episode.
Yeah.
And you want to kind of.
We're not really a theoriesshow most of the time, but, you know,
we'll, we'll say something andthen, you know, I had the.
You had one about where youthought a gun may end up that like
(16:13):
three hours later I was like,well, he's wrong about that.
I said one about how certainpeople may interact and just hours
later that was blown to shreds.
The other downside to it issometimes I forget from Sunday to
Sunday because we record onSunday afternoon.
We are at the most distantpoint from having watched the show.
(16:33):
Yeah.
Okay, let's take a break andon the other side we'll talk spoilers,
I guess, about the Wyatt Lotus only.
That's about right.
So join us there.
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(16:57):
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We release a new episode everyTuesday morning.
(17:19):
That's Polyphonic Press andwe're available on every podcast
platform.
Beware all thousands andthousands of our listening fans.
You've reached spoiler sectionfor this week.
We'll go in the same order aswe did at the top, which is really
only the White Lotus, becausewe're not going to cover those other
few things.
Now, the White Lotus only hastwo more episodes left as of our
(17:42):
recording, which means we'lltalk about episode six here.
Denials.
See episode where Saxon,Laurie, Jacqueline, all separately
deal with fallout of theirparty night.
Lachlan walks around,carefree, kind of Piper gets into
the monastery briefly.
(18:04):
Gay talk does something rightkind of again.
Yeah.
And Rick and Frank arrive atthe home of the actress in the guise
of producer and director.
They are.
Oh, Gary's gonna throw adinner party and that's gonna be
real chill.
Nothing when there's alreadybeen a good Chekhov's gun and resentments
(18:25):
are in the air and the stakesare high.
Nothing says safe haven like arich person's dinner party.
Oh, man, that's good stuff.
Agatha Christie style.
Yeah.
Palatial estate overlookingthe ocean.
What could go wrong?
Yeah, what if.
Not a theories thing, buthere's a good one.
What if Gary's actually areally good guy?
(18:46):
You know, like he had nothingto do with his wife's murder, you
know, that just.
That was just circumstantialwith the gays.
Yeah, they were.
They were the one.
You know, maybe they forcedhim kind of into whatever he did.
Or what if he's just a sweetguy and he's, like, worried shitless
because Belinda thinks he's horrible?
(19:06):
It really is like an olive branch.
Like, I have to show thiswoman that I am not a murderer.
I love that little invite scene.
Some people online think thathe might be Walter Goggins.
Dad.
That may be the reveal.
And this is.
There's a few reasons, but onewas cracking me up early on.
(19:27):
People could not understandthat the Bureau of Land Management
has nothing to do withacquiring tracts of land in Thailand.
They're like, well, he couldhave been there working for the.
The blm.
They're like, that's not atall how the POM works.
No, no.
Our regular listener from NewYork and fellow podcaster from seti,
(19:49):
Bimco, Tim, came to us thisweek with the note.
I'll just read it.
It says, always enjoy yourtalks, and I don't care too much
about predicting what happensin the end.
So he's with us there.
But Gary or Greg seems toguess or know that his girl slept
with those Ratliff boys.
But did he guess?
If you have a nice yacht likethat, wouldn't you have those little
(20:10):
cameras everywhere?
Got to.
Yeah.
And if so he has the wholeincest three way event maybe on video.
I think I replied to him andsaid no.
I don't know if I've repliedto him and said this, but in the
bedroom might be a place wherethere's not a camera if it becomes
known at all.
This is Tim continuing.
Saxon Ratliff could end up ina violent nature.
(20:32):
Oh, he says anyway, I guess.
But the.
Because it's coming from me,you know, he's just devastated that
this got out.
So let's get into Gary and.
And the Ratliff boys here.
Those pesky Ratliff boys.
They're just little.
They're.
They're little Rascals, aren't they?
Yeah, they're Atlas Rascals.
That's them.
(20:53):
I don't think that Saxon everytime that his very goofy and shown
to be more and more completely artificial.
Tough guy act.
Yes.
Cool guy, together guy act.
The armor has been penetratedin any way.
He just kind of crumbles.
He does, right?
Like when that early, earlyish conversation with his dad.
(21:17):
Like can I help?
Can I.
You know, I'm worried about whatever.
Do I really need to get myphone up?
And he just seemed like achild there.
And this week when he'sconfronted with the truth of what
happened by the girls, he runs.
He doesn't know what to.
To do.
You know, I don't know that he.
I could see self harm.
I couldn't see.
(21:37):
Yeah.
Becoming a shooter or something.
I think that's fair.
Saxon's got false hutzpah.
A facade.
Yeah.
So tm, by the way, our friend,it came back later and he said that
he thinks it's a strangemenage that tips Saxon over the edge.
Yeah, I said it last week andmaybe even the week before.
(22:01):
This season sets up moremystery than I remember previous.
Previous seasons.
Do you remember this much?
Just all out.
Anybody could do anything.
No, I think that he leftthings unanswered.
In season two.
The nature of the hookupsspecifically between the two couples.
Was there a revenge hookup?
(22:22):
What happened?
But that was not on the scalethat it is now.
I mean it feels like anycharacter could be drawn, I'll say
collision course again intosome sort of.
And not just like they'regonna argue or they're gonna blow
up at each other, but realviolence is on the horizon, no matter
what.
It feels dark.
And the only person that weknow for sure who is not the perpetrator
(22:45):
theoretically is Belinda's sonbecause he's shown at the meditation
the first body we.
See in episode one didn't haveblood on it.
It's just floating down the river.
So questionable.
I may have to go back and rewatch.
I know we're not a theoryshow, but this, this particular season
is really inviting it.
So my thing was that that'sTim in an overdose, but it could
(23:08):
be Saxon in an overdose.
You talked about self harm.
Yeah.
And it's doing all of this,you know, all along I said this earlier.
So this is not going to be a.
An incest show or a.
Even with all the gunfire.
Like, is this really going tobe like a mass shooting event kind
(23:29):
of show?
Because they did that withseason one.
Right.
Like there.
We know that there is a casket going.
Yeah.
But not a mass shooting.
Right, Right.
But you're expecting somethingand something dark does happen, but
it's not.
You feel like anything could happen.
And then it kind of.
You see how it gets there in away that's less jarring than like
(23:53):
a really violent event like that.
Yeah.
A lot of movement in episodesix, kind of positioning.
I still think this seasoncould be one of the better ones.
Isn't it funny how we.
Because I think that everytime now, after we kind of complained
about the first two episodes,this is now it just has its own inertia
(24:17):
and energy and the themes feelso big.
Yeah.
It's got a darker tone.
I think it's a littleelevated, but it's hard to say.
And I'm always willing to sayif I get something wrong.
I still think the.
The first episode and a halfwas needed a wrench taken to it tightening
(24:38):
up some.
Which is a funny complaint.
I.
And I was with you, you know, I.
All the time that like theydon't have long credits at the start
of movies anymore.
So usually I'm like, let's.
Let's give things a few morebeats to get the vibe going.
Yeah.
You got to strike a balance though.
You do.
And with you that I.
(24:59):
It could have been tightened up.
It's.
It's paying off, I think.
You know, was that stalling orstationary feeling purposely evoked
in episode one and a half two?
I think so.
And I think one thing thatthey're setting up, they're not setting
it up.
They're.
The payoff is already arrivingis the, you know, the nature of wellness
(25:23):
and peace and all of thesekind of, you know, New Agey words
for old religious experienceor spiritual experiences.
That's what the White Lotus is offering.
You can come here to detox.
You can come here to eat fruitfor breakfast and then go do yoga
or whatever.
But you're paying like apretty penny to do that.
(25:44):
Right.
And so maybe the pace is themarriving somewhere that promises
a thing, but it's kind of likethe Disney World version of it.
And now we have a lot ofcharacters actually out in real life,
whether it's Sam Rockwelltalking about real work, real self
work, or it's Piper.
(26:05):
Finally she's going to get herdose of what living in a monastery
would be like.
I mean, I thought the sceneswith the monk this week were fantastic.
You know, they.
I did too.
Maybe they had to hit the.
The quicksand of like theplastic version of I'm here to.
To better myself or unwind ordecompress or whatever before they
(26:27):
could get to deeper into the.
The unconscious.
And in traditional Mike Whitefashion, you know, people.
There are people are thereseemingly to improve their inner
selves, but the majority ofthese people are.
Would be very hard to improvethemselves, most notably because
(26:51):
they have a stubbornness thatthey don't need it or they.
Just don't want to.
I mean, the scene whereVictoria, you know, they're.
They're talking about, could Ilive a tough life?
And she says, no.
Yeah, no, I don't think I wasever meant for that.
And I'm certainly not at this age.
I don't know if that is a.
If we lost everything, I wouldjust kill myself.
That's certainly how herhusband is taking it.
(27:12):
Yeah.
And he's.
It's, you know, holding amirror up to him, him thinking, do
I have what it takes?
After his conversation withthe monk, which, again, I thought
was beautiful.
Beautifully written.
You did.
Not to cliche or anything.
If you took it out of contextand put it on like a bad background
(27:33):
and put it on Facebook.
Yeah, it seems like pseudo spirituality.
But I still think it's alovely idea to say you.
You know, there's an ocean andyou briefly rise up from it as a
drop of water and then fallback into it.
I mean, that's.
Yeah.
If you're thinking aboutactual Eastern spirituality, that's
a fine way to.
(27:54):
As someone who is some yearsremoved from his Eastern studies
classes at the University of Alabama.
So I'm no expert, but thatseems like a cool way to describe
it.
And especially, you know, he's.
The monk is sizing up the manthat's sitting in front of him, meeting
him where he is.
In some ways, I've beencritical of Jeremy Isaacs, who plays
(28:17):
Tim Ratliff, mainly for hisAccent, little else.
But I thought he did a reallygood job of conveying getting gut
punched, metaphorically.
I thought he was great in thisepisode for that reason that, you
know, the man who arrived inThailand would not have had that
conversation.
(28:38):
There's a brother, there's abroken man sitting there.
And I think we're supposed tothink about the brokenness of the
same Rockwell character whilethat's happening.
The idea of hitting rockbottom before you can achieve some
sort of enlightenment.
A lot of people have to hitrock bottom before they'll make an
attempt to improve themselves.
When it also just completely reframes.
(28:59):
You know, there are ideas thatare so deeply ingrained in us by
society, by our Westernculture versus Eastern culture.
Ideas of individuality,instant gratification, all these
kinds of things that, youknow, he realizes that even his scope
of understanding, his problemcould be limited.
Yeah, that's good.
(29:21):
And even his.
I won't take credit for this.
I saw this online.
His instant gratificationAmerican brain leads him to suicide
ideation.
Right?
Uh huh.
That's a.
You know, and even after themonk tells him, like, you return
to this beautiful.
You have your moment, you flyup as this drop and then you return
(29:42):
back, he still has another onewhere he contemplates violence.
You know, the death may be theright answer.
That's still like a veryinstant gratification kind of capitalist
American way of, well, whydon't I just die right now?
Instant fix.
Order it on Amazon.
It's here tomorrow.
Absolutely.
(30:02):
I think the question oneveryone's mind though is how awesome
is Fabian's performance goingto be?
There's really only one thingworth theorizing about.
And you've.
You've nailed it here.
1.
I think on a scale of 1 to 10,it's got to be around that.
9.5.
It's.
We're on a.
We're on a pitchfork scale here.
Yeah, we are.
Okay.
(30:23):
That actor though, is in themovie is the zone of interest.
But no, the real topicprobably on everyone's mind after
episode six is the brothers Ratliff.
The.
The odd looks between Lachlanand Sachs's butt in the first episode
pay off in a way that probablyno one ever wanted.
We finally have someone whowants to be severed more than Donovan.
(30:44):
And that's sexy.
Is this too crass of a storyline?
No, unfortunately, I don'tthink so.
Although I don't think so either.
But it was the reveal this time.
It was almost more shockingwatching them kiss at what they think
is the Girl's insistence, theepisode before, the way that he has
(31:09):
to piece together whathappened, I thought was pretty good.
And that's a very realistic thing.
Yeah.
I mean, no one's proud of those.
Like, oh, did that really happen?
Obviously it's not.
That kind of works.
Like how a dream can come toyou in pieces and then by the end
of the day, you kind ofremember it all.
Yeah.
(31:29):
And it's presented like anawful dream.
It is like a nightmare.
Yeah.
One of those where you're notreally in control and then, oh, my
God.
These two women saw everythingand participated.
Yeah.
Well, I kind of wonder ifChelsea is not just there to react.
That's a really.
(31:49):
I mean, she's there for more.
But Chelsea and Rick have,what, an all star pairing of a couple
for their on screen reactionswhen they're not not even together.
It's so funny.
I do make notes so I willremember certain things.
And I wrote that Amy Lou would.
Who is Chelsea?
She just deserves plenty of praise.
She is the perfect actress toreact to all this that's happening
(32:15):
around her, and there's plentyof it.
And she, you know, when theseason started, you kind of wonder,
is this like.
Like a fem fatal kind of thing?
Is she.
This is like a doomed couplethat are gonna go down on the ship
together or whatever is gonnahappen with these gunshots.
But she's kind of been themoral center of the show.
Yeah.
She's cool, man.
(32:35):
As a character.
It's a cool character.
I do hope we get some, if notall, of Rick's backstory.
How does he get insanely wealthy?
What did he and Frank once dofor Frank to owe him certain kinds
of favors?
This and that.
Yeah.
Of course, the big obviousanswer to some of that would be that
(32:57):
he's a hired killer, but thatseems bombastic.
It does, but I mean, they'reliving a life where even though he's
reformed, his friend stillgives him a pistol.
Yeah.
And he has no problem.
I mean, he played it prettydamn cool getting off that boat and
(33:18):
walking past those giant armedsecurity guards with a gun in his
belt.
Like you said, it'd be worthwatching that first episode in bits
and pieces to see what floatson down the river to episode six.
Yeah.
That whole scene, the setup ofthem getting in there and faking,
like, their Hollywood orwhatever they are.
(33:40):
The other scene that remindedme of this was guy talk in the room
trying to find the pistol.
You know, that feeling oflike, somebody's gonna come back,
they're gonna be discovered atany time where you kind of have to.
If you're caught up in theshow, you're like, it's just a show,
you know, that sort of thingalways makes me anxious.
Oh, yeah, it's good stuff.
But that them going in andespecially we see shortly after that,
(34:04):
you know, they show like, onthe next episode, he's got the gun
out.
The gun's coming out at somepoint in this house.
It's one of my favorite tropesof TV and movies where you have someone
acting like someone else.
The dramatic irony of, youknow, they're putting up a front,
trying to be someonecompletely different.
Fake name, faked job, all of that.
(34:27):
I love those kinds of things.
Doesn't stress you out?
Oh, yeah.
That's why I like them.
I like a little tension in mytelevision, for sure.
Fair enough.
It has been theorized maybe.
What if he is actually a producer?
Yeah.
What if that's where his moneycame from?
What if he really was in Hollywood?
We saw that last season, right.
With the.
(34:48):
The three generation grandfather.
Dad, it.
Was it Michael Imperioli?
Was it Michael Imperioli amovie producer?
I think so.
I think so.
Yeah.
So maybe Mike White wouldn'tdip in that well twice.
But hey, that would be a funnybait and switch that we're all thinking,
at minimum, he's doingsomething shady, doing some this
(35:08):
and that to get the money.
And turns out the shady thingis he's been working in the entertainment
industry.
Yeah.
You know, it's easy to seekind of the upper level drug dealer
catering to businessmen sort of.
Drug dealer, sure.
Yeah.
That seems realistic too.
Or it seems to fit his character.
The three girlfriends, wehaven't mentioned them.
(35:29):
They get more engrossing thisweek, I think, this conflict of styles
of bitchiness.
You know, you got Kate gonnago tell Lori that Jaclyn slept with
Valentine.
Valentine.
And she probably does that.
She claims she does.
It just.
I don't know.
(35:50):
Her claim she makes is thatshe didn't want it to go back to
get back out, you know, to Jacqueline.
But that's exactly what happens.
And, you know, she kind ofwants that to happen.
She kicks back and watches.
I kind of wondered how much Ican believe what she says when she
tells Laurie.
It just seems like, here's thething that happened last night.
(36:13):
She's wanting to stir the pot,you're saying?
I kind of think that shenaively told Laurie, I don't know,
that she thought that she wasgonna stir the pot as much as she
did.
Oh, okay.
Well, she's taking it all in,just like us.
She is the observer betweenthe three, even.
I mean, they set that up theepisode before where she tapers off
the drinking and has soberedup enough to be like, y'all gotta
(36:35):
get out of our pool.
It's time to go.
Laurie reacts quite brashly tothe whole thing, which is funny to
see Harry Coon get a bit moreoff the rails.
Yeah.
She's a good actress.
But of the three, you wouldhave suspected that Kate would stop
drinking fairly early in the night.
That fits her character as well.
(36:56):
I think.
So she doesn't get too wild.
Yeah, well, I mean, she's.
They're married.
Well, I guess two are married.
Two of them have kids.
You know, this is.
This is someone's mom wholives like an Austin, Texas, Republican,
suburban life.
Yeah.
Soccer mom kind of life.
Maybe upper crust.
(37:17):
Yeah, Upper crust.
So.
Yeah.
But still, you know, you wouldexpect the.
The church going woman to pumpthe brakes on the Thailand adventure.
Yeah.
Natasha Rothwell plays Belinda.
She does well here to givethat hesitation of being badly burned
before.
Here.
(37:38):
It's her sleepover pal.
And he does the same thing.
Season one, where he's like,no, we'll go into business together.
You know, I know you.
That never came to fulfillmentfor you.
So you and I will do this.
And she does not give a yes at all.
And really hesitant there.
(37:59):
She's been burned before.
Yeah.
Bad.
Yeah.
She.
It reverberates.
It was funny to see her sonfinally arrive after she lost track
of time, so to speak.
Yeah.
And she's in bed with the guy.
Yeah.
And it, you know, theirrelationship has already been shown
to.
Maybe she was a single mom.
Whatever the case, they'revery close.
(38:21):
Almost graduated from motherchild to now they're kind of buddies.
And that'll be a fun thing tosee play out.
You know, hopefully he getsmore screen time in the next two
episodes.
Gotta know if he's going upthe hill to Gary's.
Oh, man.
Surely they have to, because Iwant to see that.
(38:42):
The scene where he is.
Gary's looking at Greg islooking Belinda.
He's kind of seems like he'ssizing up the kid.
Say that again.
Remember the.
There's parallel scenes acouple episodes ago where Belinda
is researching Greg.
That's right.
And Greg is researchingBelinda and is like on the son's
(39:04):
Instagram maybe and like, kindof doing a deep.
Maybe it was hers.
But he's doing a deep dive onthe whole fam.
Putting in a little homework.
Unlike our Guy Donovan, whojust will not finish an assignment.
Well, what'd you think of Piper?
Where do you think themonastery thing's going?
Cause this is where.
(39:24):
Importantly, as both RatliffRascals independently recall what's
happened, Saxon has to be reminded.
But his brother, during apeaceful moment of meditation, as
he's letting thoughts come and go.
There it is.
I don't have a lot to sayabout her particular storyline at
(39:45):
the moment.
I think.
Or in this episode.
It was one of the leastinteresting to me.
Although her dad, like youmentioned, that was pretty fascinating
to see him get this stuff.
Maybe he had never heardbefore or he has never heard in a
situation where he was listening.
(40:05):
Now, that was good to me.
Her.
I don't think that.
I don't think Piper really gotme thinking much.
She probably will this week.
I think using her as this, youknow, I can't tell if they're setting
her up to just be like therest of her family, that she's kind
of a tourist in this monasteryworld and is looking for.
(40:28):
You know, she tells the monk,your books meant so much to me.
These people don't understand me.
Just kind of like a classic.
Mm.
Mom and dad don't get it.
Yeah.
And I don't know how can youtell if there's actual, like, enlightenment
going on there or if it's justlike, this is the band aid that I
put on a problem.
I'm eventually gonna realizethat I'm just like them and her mom.
(40:50):
I think it asks interestingquestions, like how.
What is our capacity for change?
How much can we adopt othermindsets that.
Her mom doesn't say it likethis, but points out like you already
have a framework for answeringthe questions that you're asking.
Yeah.
You know, you're raised in church.
You.
We figured this out.
Why are you.
(41:12):
Is this like a shiny object to you?
Because it's unfamiliar, butyou're going to be the same person
once you grasp it.
Yeah.
Bookends one of our earlierpoints that these are hard people
to change.
Going into a resort designedhelp you find some sort of fix or
(41:33):
enlightenment.
It's good stuff.
It is.
I like that.
That's a extra little thing wehaven't seen quite.
Quite this thoroughly with theother two seasons.
And then throw in a darker tone.
Yeah.
It's a really good season so far.
I think.
I think we've reached the end.
And the next episode, whichcould be early or it could be a standard
(41:55):
Tuesday episode, willcertainly cover Adolescents on Netflix.
We appreciate y'all listening.
I'm Blaine.
And for Adam and Donovan.
He'll be back.
We hope GayTalk's not yoursecurity guard.
Thanks for listening.
Hey y'all.
We're taking it down theWorking Class TV podcast.
We're housed under the AlabamaTakes family of podcasts.
We'll give thoughts without specifics.
So you can take the first halfas recommendations or non spoilers
and then the back half will bethe detailed thoughts.
If you've seen what we'rediscussing or you just aren't averse
(00:22):
to spoilers.
I'm the host, Blaine.
I'm also the editor in chiefof the site the Alabama Take.
What we do here across thesite and with each podcast takes
time, effort and some moneyfor hosting websites in the shows.
If you have it in you whereyou can spare any money at all, or
a couple dollars or more, it'san incredibly generous way to say
(00:43):
that you support and enjoywhat we do.
You can click on the link onour site for donations or in the
podcast Show Notes as well.
You have your choice of usingeither stripe or buy me a coffee
and we thank you very, very much.
This week the topics include acontinuation of the White Lotus on
(01:03):
HBO and Max as well as justsome general talk about some things
in streaming.
At the top of this week'sepisode each Tuesday, I'm joined
by co hosts Adam and Donovan.
Donovan's absent this week,but let's get into the episode and
talk to Adam.
Take projection foreign helloto Adam as we start like we do each
(01:30):
week with no spoilers, noDonovan, because he doesn't do his
homework.
And if you're gonna work forproduction as big as and important
as taking it down, it'simportant to so many, you know, you
have to watch the fucking shows.
There's gotta be consequencesto misdeeds.
He's not fired.
You touch the stove, you gottanurse that burn for a little while.
(01:51):
He is in the corner with hisnose facing the corner.
Facing the corner.
Let's dive right in.
I found it interesting thisweek that HBO came out with news.
I know we all don't watch thePit, but it was about the Pit.
But it seems as though it isgood evidence for what we constantly
say on here, first of all.
Well, I'll just say a few things.
The Pit will have anotherseason as soon as January.
(02:13):
It's a lightning fast these days.
And the the other things areits two episode premiere this past
January was one of the fivemost watched debuts on Max.
That's shocking.
It's pretty big, right?
Yeah.
I do think everybody inconversation I'm with for the most
part is watching it.
Yeah, it has come uporganically irl, you know, out there
(02:38):
when we're touching grass andspeaking with other humans outside
of our boxes.
A few folks have said, oh,have you guys seen that?
Or they'll try to referencesomething that I have to say.
I haven't seen it yet.
Although the way that thealgorithm tends to do it ended up.
I can't remember if it wasTikTok or Instagram or something.
Some scene.
I don't know enough about theshow to say where they are, but I
(02:58):
would assume the trauma wardor the ICU or whatever is preparing
for an event that has happenedout in the world.
That's fair.
And it completely had me hooked.
They know that people are coming.
It made me think, obviously, Itrust Blaine.
We do the show together wherewe tend to watch what the other one
enjoys.
But I wasn't into the premise,I don't think.
(03:20):
But as soon as I saw a littlebit of it, I was.
I thought, yeah, I could watch this.
Yeah.
I think you're probably firstthought, much like mine when I heard
of the show in general wasthat medical dramas have this lovey
dovey aspect where the doctorsand nurses go home and pine for one
another.
It does not have that at allbecause they never go home.
(03:42):
It's just one shift.
Each hour is an hour in theirshift and it's chaotic and hard to
keep up with and.
But just super good week toweek TV is a lot of fun.
You know, I do understand nothaving money to subscribe to a bunch
of different streamingchannels, and I don't know that I'm
not there myself, but you kindof want to wait for all episodes
(04:05):
to drop and then that way youcan get your first month discounted,
maybe watch that series.
That's hyped.
So there is that.
I get why people stick with Netflix.
It's probably the leastcanceled of the streamers.
And it goes up all the time.
It does.
Netflix is chasing the pit.
Their medical show may be good.
(04:25):
The thing is, it's gonna hitNetflix all at once.
I doubt even if I like theNetflix show, I'll bring it up.
Over the course of threemonths, I've brought this show up
at least once a month forthree months.
There's something to be saidfor that.
The staying power of a weekly conversation.
Yeah.
The two shows that we have, Imean, we can say we enjoyed the most
are Severance and White Lotus.
(04:46):
At least discussing them witheach other.
Yeah.
This year so far, not the same.
If they all drop at once.
It's not.
It just takes the air out ofthe poor Show.
I feel so sorry for thecreators now that I've really gotten
waist deep into TV andthinking about tv.
It's just sad.
It's wild to me that Netflix,with its massive head start, now
(05:09):
it feels like I can rely onthem the least for quality.
Yeah.
Like I'm possibly even a bit suspect.
Me too.
Big time.
Which is why when Adolescencecame out, it had four episodes.
It was getting rave reviews,big time reviews from noted critics.
And I thought, well, it's onlyfour episodes and that's a lot of
(05:32):
rave reviews.
I'm going to.
You know, there's probablysomething to that, but everything
else is just so mid tier.
You know, Donovan and I talkabout it quite often on here.
You and I talk about it quiteoften on here.
It's.
I just think HBO and Apple TVhave a leg up on trusted creators.
I'm not.
I know you mentioned thealgorithm, but I think you're talking
about TikTok.
Yeah.
(05:52):
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm not sure an algorithmcould have predicted the Pit for
Max specifically.
Yeah.
And Netflix, they seem to bejust taking the shotgun spray approach
with like, let's just do asmuch as possible.
If we get eyeballs for aweekend, great.
I mean, that seems like theirwhole objective, right?
It is.
(06:12):
And they get the money to lureoccasional decent things.
I suppose if I am picking amovie for the evening and we're going
through that like, it's notsomething new.
It's just like, what.
What's out there kind of thing.
Netflix is not.
That's on down the list ofplaces that I look at this point.
It is.
All of this has happened, like unconsciously.
(06:34):
You know, as someone whoadored when Netflix started their
streaming service, it's.
It's just weird.
I'm not so sure the impetusfor this very podcast didn't start
when you and I kept textingone another about House of Cards
second season.
Now that was a long before weeven considered recording anything.
(06:55):
We would have found that preposterous.
But yeah.
Was it around the same time?
I'd have to.
Everything's a blur.
But True Detective Season 1.
That's a good question.
Had to have been part of it too.
That's a really good question.
Maybe we can look that up.
I mean, you could tell me thatHouse of Cards was in anywhere from
2013-16.
(07:16):
You got it young.
It was 13 for season one.
April 2013.
No, season two.
Season two.
Season two when I jumped in,remember, I was playing catch up.
Season two predates TrueDetective season one.
By one year Almost.
Almost several months.
That's right.
So we have the season two ofHouse of Cards because I was behind
(07:36):
and you had recommended it.
Oh, it was great.
And I.
I think that show has gottenburied for a number of reasons, but.
Well, yeah, it's one of the.
The foundational shows of likethe streaming phenomenon.
Right?
Yeah.
And it was before the wordalgorithm was really a presence in
(07:57):
our vocabulary.
So it was like.
But it was very algorithmic.
Right.
It was made like they decidedpeople like David Fincher films and
Kevin Spacey and like they putit all together.
Yeah.
And you put the cut points atthe end of an episode to make you
dive back into the next one.
It really did feel like at thetime that they had, you know, say
you have a strip of film thatis a season of a show and you've
(08:21):
got 10 little slots thatyou've got to choose where they drop.
They just picked that up andmoved it slightly to the left so
that they cut a little bitearlier than most shows.
Everybody who has an ampleiPhone knows about the trim.
That's all they're doing.
The trim function.
Yeah, that's.
It was kind of genius.
And we were at a point whereMad Men and Breaking Bad and all
(08:44):
that good stuff were flying high.
I think we were prettypredisposed to prestige television.
And, you know, I didn't havelike an understanding of.
Because it didn't exist yet.
The hierarchy of where Netflixand HBO and Hulu and all of that
would eventually when anytimeNetflix won, it felt like a win kind
of for like a new technology.
(09:06):
Right.
Like a new era of.
Not like the plucky underdog,but kind.
Of a little bit.
I was still a very annoyedback then when someone would go on
Twitter, which was fine backin 2013, and like talk about episode
eight in the first night.
I'm like, I worked today.
I didn't.
I watched two episodes, tops.
(09:27):
Yeah.
But back to the pit.
It's sort of wild to me thatthey're also doing 15 episodes every.
Both seasons they're planning.
Obviously the first one isdoing 15 and they're going to do
15 again starting in January.
You know, streamers stick toabout 8 or 10, 10 the most, usually
for 30 minute shows.
I mean, you know what I'mgoing to rely on here?
Go ahead.
A fine quote from season oneof True Detective.
(09:49):
Time is a flat circle.
We're back to regular TValmost, aren't we?
Yeah.
Just on streaming, making abunch of episodes per season, except
it's on hbo.
Well, that's Some of ourfavorite, you know, we watch Max
the White Lotus every Sunday,which we're going to get into.
But we, I mean, that's justscooping it from HBO and using a
streaming service.
(10:09):
Yeah, but it doesn't, it's not15 episodes and it's not coming out
every year.
That's a different thing.
No, that's true.
From barely old to really new,Apple TV released two debut episodes
of the studio.
I don't think it was quietthis weekend.
It was like a week from whenyou may be hearing us.
And it's made of a list, people.
(10:29):
Alex Gregory, Peter Huick,Frida Perez, but most notably Seth
Rogen and his working partnerEvan Goldberg.
So those five made a show.
It's about a studio exec whogets promoted to the head of the
studio like in the first twominutes that happens.
And you know, obviously he'sgoing to make movies, right.
He's going to scramble to makesome movies.
(10:50):
I went into this episode onepretty hesitant, mainly questioning
is it one of those fun behindthe scenes comedies about Hollywood
or is it one of those patyourself on the back pieces about
Hollywood?
You know the type.
It's, it's where they'rereally proud of themselves and it's
a lot like a song being abouthow hard the song itself to write.
(11:10):
I've.
I've seen the Oscars.
Yes.
Well, I'm here to claim thatit is an absolute frenetic fun joy
to watch the.
I started the episode, episodeone, on the couch in the napping
position in case it didn't getme, in case it was more dud than
Rocket but.
Ready to drift away.
(11:31):
Ready to drift and turn the TV off.
But nope, it was good.
Very solid.
Rogan and Greenberg directedit and I think all the episodes.
And I just loved.
There's a lot of camera movement.
It's handheld almost to theextreme, constant swinging.
It makes for good tension, butit manages, it manages to crack wise
(11:51):
pretty constantly.
It's just got good pacing,pretty good jokes and an insane cast.
There are big names having fundoing little parts in this.
And I recommend might besomething worth discussing.
Not so sure.
I don't know, maybe it's gotsome neat things happening buried
in the comedy.
(12:12):
Yeah.
And enjoyably pokes at thereal theme of can you make art and
money with the same thing?
That's one of.
That's one of a topic we tendto talk about every now and again.
Yeah.
I'm intrigued by a Seth Roganled program ever as a guy who in
his mid-30s.
This isn't really like ashocking opinion, but I've enjoyed
the Seth Rogen career.
(12:33):
Yeah.
Perfect target audience forSuperbad when it came out.
Oh, yeah.
And then just seeing, seeinghim, like, mature through and remain
like, make good.
Seems to have made goodpersonnel decisions, you know, for
his former partner to be JamesFranco and now to be like, I can't
have anything to do with that guy.
Gotta keep moving, gotta growup, gotta.
(12:55):
Whatever.
He has my attention here.
This is my take on Seth Rogen.
I am constantly tentative onwatching anything with Seth Rogen,
and then a lot of times I doand I end up being.
No, this is good.
Yeah, he's a funny guy.
I don't.
Why do I think he's kind of annoying?
But yet when I watch him, I'mlike, no, he's not that annoying.
(13:17):
He's just kind of funny.
He has the potential.
The Persona could be annoying,but it ends up being funny most of
the time.
Kind of lovable at times.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yeah.
I.
I suggest the studio for our listeners.
This is our non.
Spoiler part where maybe youget recommendations.
Yeah.
High quality.
I went and told my wife thatshe should watch it.
It's.
It's a broad audience kind of thing.
(13:38):
You'll appreciate the love for Hollywood.
It also has old Hollywood,kind of like Quentin Tarantino does
to some of his movies.
Okay.
All right.
Of course, lately, we've goneweek to week with the White Lotus,
which aired episode six, Denials.
That's the latest one for us.
In case you're new.
We record on a Sundayafternoon, so there's a good chance
you may have seen an episode more.
(14:01):
As for episode six, though,this one built up some tension and.
But did not feel like a place.
Setter and built up sometension and released some.
We'll get there.
You know, this is why we watchthe show these last two episodes.
It's where character dynamicsbegin to cause some friction.
And that's why you watch it.
I think.
I think that's the biggestthing Mike White does for the White
(14:24):
Lotus.
Yeah.
I mean, even.
We kind of talk about the waythat the show will inevitably mimic
itself every time, you know,and you start again on a boat and
we have that great interactionthat we love, where Walter Goggins
is blowing cigarette smoke everywhere.
But you know that these peopleare going to hit the resort, separate,
(14:47):
and then somehow end upbouncing off each other.
And this is maybe the mostsatisfying collision course that
he's charted so far.
Could be.
I mean, they've been movingindependently of each other much
more in the last few seasonsor parties are kind of having their
own drama here.
They're mingling a lot more.
(15:08):
Adam, our podcast episodereleases on April Fool's Day.
You have a message for anyonelistening on Day of.
I think that we are the Aprilfool for continuing to discuss this
show in particular on Sunday afternoons.
Well, it hinders us for theobvious reason that most people will
have watched the next one.
But I mean, I feel like we'relike recording a show about the Super
(15:29):
Bowl, 4 o'clock before theykick it off.
I mean, it is what it is.
This is all of the Sundaynight and you know, once at least.
Yeah, it's week to week,somebody goes back and watches the
White Lotus, they can listen along.
I think we do have people whocome back and listen along.
I don't.
I really do.
We always get a comment or anemail about the White Lotus coverage
(15:52):
and not the other stuff.
It's the way it's got to be.
It just is.
I am looking forward to thisevening's episode.
Yeah.
And you want to kind of.
We're not really a theoriesshow most of the time, but, you know,
we'll, we'll say something andthen, you know, I had the.
You had one about where youthought a gun may end up that like
(16:13):
three hours later I was like,well, he's wrong about that.
I said one about how certainpeople may interact and just hours
later that was blown to shreds.
The other downside to it issometimes I forget from Sunday to
Sunday because we record onSunday afternoon.
We are at the most distantpoint from having watched the show.
(16:33):
Yeah.
Okay, let's take a break andon the other side we'll talk spoilers,
I guess, about the Wyatt Lotus only.
That's about right.
So join us there.
Do you love music?
Do you want to explore classic albums?
If you answered yes, then,then check out Polyphonic Press.
I'm Jeremy and along with myco host John, we rely on the patented
(16:57):
Random Album generator to pickan album for us to review at the
top of each show.
We have no idea what albumwe're going to be listening to.
That's what keeps it really exciting.
We dig real deep into these albums.
So if this sounds interesting,come along with us on this journey
because you never know whatyou might find.
We release a new episode everyTuesday morning.
(17:19):
That's Polyphonic Press andwe're available on every podcast
platform.
Beware all thousands andthousands of our listening fans.
You've reached spoiler sectionfor this week.
We'll go in the same order aswe did at the top, which is really
only the White Lotus, becausewe're not going to cover those other
few things.
Now, the White Lotus only hastwo more episodes left as of our
(17:42):
recording, which means we'lltalk about episode six here.
Denials.
See episode where Saxon,Laurie, Jacqueline, all separately
deal with fallout of theirparty night.
Lachlan walks around,carefree, kind of Piper gets into
the monastery briefly.
(18:04):
Gay talk does something rightkind of again.
Yeah.
And Rick and Frank arrive atthe home of the actress in the guise
of producer and director.
They are.
Oh, Gary's gonna throw adinner party and that's gonna be
real chill.
Nothing when there's alreadybeen a good Chekhov's gun and resentments
(18:25):
are in the air and the stakesare high.
Nothing says safe haven like arich person's dinner party.
Oh, man, that's good stuff.
Agatha Christie style.
Yeah.
Palatial estate overlookingthe ocean.
What could go wrong?
Yeah, what if.
Not a theories thing, buthere's a good one.
What if Gary's actually areally good guy?
(18:46):
You know, like he had nothingto do with his wife's murder, you
know, that just.
That was just circumstantialwith the gays.
Yeah, they were.
They were the one.
You know, maybe they forcedhim kind of into whatever he did.
Or what if he's just a sweetguy and he's, like, worried shitless
because Belinda thinks he's horrible?
(19:06):
It really is like an olive branch.
Like, I have to show thiswoman that I am not a murderer.
I love that little invite scene.
Some people online think thathe might be Walter Goggins.
Dad.
That may be the reveal.
And this is.
There's a few reasons, but onewas cracking me up early on.
(19:27):
People could not understandthat the Bureau of Land Management
has nothing to do withacquiring tracts of land in Thailand.
They're like, well, he couldhave been there working for the.
The blm.
They're like, that's not atall how the POM works.
No, no.
Our regular listener from NewYork and fellow podcaster from seti,
(19:49):
Bimco, Tim, came to us thisweek with the note.
I'll just read it.
It says, always enjoy yourtalks, and I don't care too much
about predicting what happensin the end.
So he's with us there.
But Gary or Greg seems toguess or know that his girl slept
with those Ratliff boys.
But did he guess?
If you have a nice yacht likethat, wouldn't you have those little
(20:10):
cameras everywhere?
Got to.
Yeah.
And if so he has the wholeincest three way event maybe on video.
I think I replied to him andsaid no.
I don't know if I've repliedto him and said this, but in the
bedroom might be a place wherethere's not a camera if it becomes
known at all.
This is Tim continuing.
Saxon Ratliff could end up ina violent nature.
(20:32):
Oh, he says anyway, I guess.
But the.
Because it's coming from me,you know, he's just devastated that
this got out.
So let's get into Gary and.
And the Ratliff boys here.
Those pesky Ratliff boys.
They're just little.
They're.
They're little Rascals, aren't they?
Yeah, they're Atlas Rascals.
That's them.
(20:53):
I don't think that Saxon everytime that his very goofy and shown
to be more and more completely artificial.
Tough guy act.
Yes.
Cool guy, together guy act.
The armor has been penetratedin any way.
He just kind of crumbles.
He does, right?
Like when that early, earlyish conversation with his dad.
(21:17):
Like can I help?
Can I.
You know, I'm worried about whatever.
Do I really need to get myphone up?
And he just seemed like achild there.
And this week when he'sconfronted with the truth of what
happened by the girls, he runs.
He doesn't know what to.
To do.
You know, I don't know that he.
I could see self harm.
I couldn't see.
(21:37):
Yeah.
Becoming a shooter or something.
I think that's fair.
Saxon's got false hutzpah.
A facade.
Yeah.
So tm, by the way, our friend,it came back later and he said that
he thinks it's a strangemenage that tips Saxon over the edge.
Yeah, I said it last week andmaybe even the week before.
(22:01):
This season sets up moremystery than I remember previous.
Previous seasons.
Do you remember this much?
Just all out.
Anybody could do anything.
No, I think that he leftthings unanswered.
In season two.
The nature of the hookupsspecifically between the two couples.
Was there a revenge hookup?
(22:22):
What happened?
But that was not on the scalethat it is now.
I mean it feels like anycharacter could be drawn, I'll say
collision course again intosome sort of.
And not just like they'regonna argue or they're gonna blow
up at each other, but realviolence is on the horizon, no matter
what.
It feels dark.
And the only person that weknow for sure who is not the perpetrator
(22:45):
theoretically is Belinda's sonbecause he's shown at the meditation
the first body we.
See in episode one didn't haveblood on it.
It's just floating down the river.
So questionable.
I may have to go back and rewatch.
I know we're not a theoryshow, but this, this particular season
is really inviting it.
So my thing was that that'sTim in an overdose, but it could
(23:08):
be Saxon in an overdose.
You talked about self harm.
Yeah.
And it's doing all of this,you know, all along I said this earlier.
So this is not going to be a.
An incest show or a.
Even with all the gunfire.
Like, is this really going tobe like a mass shooting event kind
(23:29):
of show?
Because they did that withseason one.
Right.
Like there.
We know that there is a casket going.
Yeah.
But not a mass shooting.
Right, Right.
But you're expecting somethingand something dark does happen, but
it's not.
You feel like anything could happen.
And then it kind of.
You see how it gets there in away that's less jarring than like
(23:53):
a really violent event like that.
Yeah.
A lot of movement in episodesix, kind of positioning.
I still think this seasoncould be one of the better ones.
Isn't it funny how we.
Because I think that everytime now, after we kind of complained
about the first two episodes,this is now it just has its own inertia
(24:17):
and energy and the themes feelso big.
Yeah.
It's got a darker tone.
I think it's a littleelevated, but it's hard to say.
And I'm always willing to sayif I get something wrong.
I still think the.
The first episode and a halfwas needed a wrench taken to it tightening
(24:38):
up some.
Which is a funny complaint.
I.
And I was with you, you know, I.
All the time that like theydon't have long credits at the start
of movies anymore.
So usually I'm like, let's.
Let's give things a few morebeats to get the vibe going.
Yeah.
You got to strike a balance though.
You do.
And with you that I.
(24:59):
It could have been tightened up.
It's.
It's paying off, I think.
You know, was that stalling orstationary feeling purposely evoked
in episode one and a half two?
I think so.
And I think one thing thatthey're setting up, they're not setting
it up.
They're.
The payoff is already arrivingis the, you know, the nature of wellness
(25:23):
and peace and all of thesekind of, you know, New Agey words
for old religious experienceor spiritual experiences.
That's what the White Lotus is offering.
You can come here to detox.
You can come here to eat fruitfor breakfast and then go do yoga
or whatever.
But you're paying like apretty penny to do that.
(25:44):
Right.
And so maybe the pace is themarriving somewhere that promises
a thing, but it's kind of likethe Disney World version of it.
And now we have a lot ofcharacters actually out in real life,
whether it's Sam Rockwelltalking about real work, real self
work, or it's Piper.
(26:05):
Finally she's going to get herdose of what living in a monastery
would be like.
I mean, I thought the sceneswith the monk this week were fantastic.
You know, they.
I did too.
Maybe they had to hit the.
The quicksand of like theplastic version of I'm here to.
To better myself or unwind ordecompress or whatever before they
(26:27):
could get to deeper into the.
The unconscious.
And in traditional Mike Whitefashion, you know, people.
There are people are thereseemingly to improve their inner
selves, but the majority ofthese people are.
Would be very hard to improvethemselves, most notably because
(26:51):
they have a stubbornness thatthey don't need it or they.
Just don't want to.
I mean, the scene whereVictoria, you know, they're.
They're talking about, could Ilive a tough life?
And she says, no.
Yeah, no, I don't think I wasever meant for that.
And I'm certainly not at this age.
I don't know if that is a.
If we lost everything, I wouldjust kill myself.
That's certainly how herhusband is taking it.
(27:12):
Yeah.
And he's.
It's, you know, holding amirror up to him, him thinking, do
I have what it takes?
After his conversation withthe monk, which, again, I thought
was beautiful.
Beautifully written.
You did.
Not to cliche or anything.
If you took it out of contextand put it on like a bad background
(27:33):
and put it on Facebook.
Yeah, it seems like pseudo spirituality.
But I still think it's alovely idea to say you.
You know, there's an ocean andyou briefly rise up from it as a
drop of water and then fallback into it.
I mean, that's.
Yeah.
If you're thinking aboutactual Eastern spirituality, that's
a fine way to.
(27:54):
As someone who is some yearsremoved from his Eastern studies
classes at the University of Alabama.
So I'm no expert, but thatseems like a cool way to describe
it.
And especially, you know, he's.
The monk is sizing up the manthat's sitting in front of him, meeting
him where he is.
In some ways, I've beencritical of Jeremy Isaacs, who plays
(28:17):
Tim Ratliff, mainly for hisAccent, little else.
But I thought he did a reallygood job of conveying getting gut
punched, metaphorically.
I thought he was great in thisepisode for that reason that, you
know, the man who arrived inThailand would not have had that
conversation.
(28:38):
There's a brother, there's abroken man sitting there.
And I think we're supposed tothink about the brokenness of the
same Rockwell character whilethat's happening.
The idea of hitting rockbottom before you can achieve some
sort of enlightenment.
A lot of people have to hitrock bottom before they'll make an
attempt to improve themselves.
When it also just completely reframes.
(28:59):
You know, there are ideas thatare so deeply ingrained in us by
society, by our Westernculture versus Eastern culture.
Ideas of individuality,instant gratification, all these
kinds of things that, youknow, he realizes that even his scope
of understanding, his problemcould be limited.
Yeah, that's good.
(29:21):
And even his.
I won't take credit for this.
I saw this online.
His instant gratificationAmerican brain leads him to suicide
ideation.
Right?
Uh huh.
That's a.
You know, and even after themonk tells him, like, you return
to this beautiful.
You have your moment, you flyup as this drop and then you return
(29:42):
back, he still has another onewhere he contemplates violence.
You know, the death may be theright answer.
That's still like a veryinstant gratification kind of capitalist
American way of, well, whydon't I just die right now?
Instant fix.
Order it on Amazon.
It's here tomorrow.
Absolutely.
(30:02):
I think the question oneveryone's mind though is how awesome
is Fabian's performance goingto be?
There's really only one thingworth theorizing about.
And you've.
You've nailed it here.
1.
I think on a scale of 1 to 10,it's got to be around that.
9.5.
It's.
We're on a.
We're on a pitchfork scale here.
Yeah, we are.
Okay.
(30:23):
That actor though, is in themovie is the zone of interest.
But no, the real topicprobably on everyone's mind after
episode six is the brothers Ratliff.
The.
The odd looks between Lachlanand Sachs's butt in the first episode
pay off in a way that probablyno one ever wanted.
We finally have someone whowants to be severed more than Donovan.
(30:44):
And that's sexy.
Is this too crass of a storyline?
No, unfortunately, I don'tthink so.
Although I don't think so either.
But it was the reveal this time.
It was almost more shockingwatching them kiss at what they think
is the Girl's insistence, theepisode before, the way that he has
(31:09):
to piece together whathappened, I thought was pretty good.
And that's a very realistic thing.
Yeah.
I mean, no one's proud of those.
Like, oh, did that really happen?
Obviously it's not.
That kind of works.
Like how a dream can come toyou in pieces and then by the end
of the day, you kind ofremember it all.
Yeah.
(31:29):
And it's presented like anawful dream.
It is like a nightmare.
Yeah.
One of those where you're notreally in control and then, oh, my
God.
These two women saw everythingand participated.
Yeah.
Well, I kind of wonder ifChelsea is not just there to react.
That's a really.
(31:49):
I mean, she's there for more.
But Chelsea and Rick have,what, an all star pairing of a couple
for their on screen reactionswhen they're not not even together.
It's so funny.
I do make notes so I willremember certain things.
And I wrote that Amy Lou would.
Who is Chelsea?
She just deserves plenty of praise.
She is the perfect actress toreact to all this that's happening
(32:15):
around her, and there's plentyof it.
And she, you know, when theseason started, you kind of wonder,
is this like.
Like a fem fatal kind of thing?
Is she.
This is like a doomed couplethat are gonna go down on the ship
together or whatever is gonnahappen with these gunshots.
But she's kind of been themoral center of the show.
Yeah.
She's cool, man.
(32:35):
As a character.
It's a cool character.
I do hope we get some, if notall, of Rick's backstory.
How does he get insanely wealthy?
What did he and Frank once dofor Frank to owe him certain kinds
of favors?
This and that.
Yeah.
Of course, the big obviousanswer to some of that would be that
(32:57):
he's a hired killer, but thatseems bombastic.
It does, but I mean, they'reliving a life where even though he's
reformed, his friend stillgives him a pistol.
Yeah.
And he has no problem.
I mean, he played it prettydamn cool getting off that boat and
(33:18):
walking past those giant armedsecurity guards with a gun in his
belt.
Like you said, it'd be worthwatching that first episode in bits
and pieces to see what floatson down the river to episode six.
Yeah.
That whole scene, the setup ofthem getting in there and faking,
like, their Hollywood orwhatever they are.
(33:40):
The other scene that remindedme of this was guy talk in the room
trying to find the pistol.
You know, that feeling oflike, somebody's gonna come back,
they're gonna be discovered atany time where you kind of have to.
If you're caught up in theshow, you're like, it's just a show,
you know, that sort of thingalways makes me anxious.
Oh, yeah, it's good stuff.
But that them going in andespecially we see shortly after that,
(34:04):
you know, they show like, onthe next episode, he's got the gun
out.
The gun's coming out at somepoint in this house.
It's one of my favorite tropesof TV and movies where you have someone
acting like someone else.
The dramatic irony of, youknow, they're putting up a front,
trying to be someonecompletely different.
Fake name, faked job, all of that.
(34:27):
I love those kinds of things.
Doesn't stress you out?
Oh, yeah.
That's why I like them.
I like a little tension in mytelevision, for sure.
Fair enough.
It has been theorized maybe.
What if he is actually a producer?
Yeah.
What if that's where his moneycame from?
What if he really was in Hollywood?
We saw that last season, right.
With the.
(34:48):
The three generation grandfather.
Dad, it.
Was it Michael Imperioli?
Was it Michael Imperioli amovie producer?
I think so.
I think so.
Yeah.
So maybe Mike White wouldn'tdip in that well twice.
But hey, that would be a funnybait and switch that we're all thinking,
at minimum, he's doingsomething shady, doing some this
(35:08):
and that to get the money.
And turns out the shady thingis he's been working in the entertainment
industry.
Yeah.
You know, it's easy to seekind of the upper level drug dealer
catering to businessmen sort of.
Drug dealer, sure.
Yeah.
That seems realistic too.
Or it seems to fit his character.
The three girlfriends, wehaven't mentioned them.
(35:29):
They get more engrossing thisweek, I think, this conflict of styles
of bitchiness.
You know, you got Kate gonnago tell Lori that Jaclyn slept with
Valentine.
Valentine.
And she probably does that.
She claims she does.
It just.
I don't know.
(35:50):
Her claim she makes is thatshe didn't want it to go back to
get back out, you know, to Jacqueline.
But that's exactly what happens.
And, you know, she kind ofwants that to happen.
She kicks back and watches.
I kind of wondered how much Ican believe what she says when she
tells Laurie.
It just seems like, here's thething that happened last night.
(36:13):
She's wanting to stir the pot,you're saying?
I kind of think that shenaively told Laurie, I don't know,
that she thought that she wasgonna stir the pot as much as she
did.
Oh, okay.
Well, she's taking it all in,just like us.
She is the observer betweenthe three, even.
I mean, they set that up theepisode before where she tapers off
the drinking and has soberedup enough to be like, y'all gotta
(36:35):
get out of our pool.
It's time to go.
Laurie reacts quite brashly tothe whole thing, which is funny to
see Harry Coon get a bit moreoff the rails.
Yeah.
She's a good actress.
But of the three, you wouldhave suspected that Kate would stop
drinking fairly early in the night.
That fits her character as well.
(36:56):
I think.
So she doesn't get too wild.
Yeah, well, I mean, she's.
They're married.
Well, I guess two are married.
Two of them have kids.
You know, this is.
This is someone's mom wholives like an Austin, Texas, Republican,
suburban life.
Yeah.
Soccer mom kind of life.
Maybe upper crust.
(37:17):
Yeah, Upper crust.
So.
Yeah.
But still, you know, you wouldexpect the.
The church going woman to pumpthe brakes on the Thailand adventure.
Yeah.
Natasha Rothwell plays Belinda.
She does well here to givethat hesitation of being badly burned
before.
Here.
(37:38):
It's her sleepover pal.
And he does the same thing.
Season one, where he's like,no, we'll go into business together.
You know, I know you.
That never came to fulfillmentfor you.
So you and I will do this.
And she does not give a yes at all.
And really hesitant there.
(37:59):
She's been burned before.
Yeah.
Bad.
Yeah.
She.
It reverberates.
It was funny to see her sonfinally arrive after she lost track
of time, so to speak.
Yeah.
And she's in bed with the guy.
Yeah.
And it, you know, theirrelationship has already been shown
to.
Maybe she was a single mom.
Whatever the case, they'revery close.
(38:21):
Almost graduated from motherchild to now they're kind of buddies.
And that'll be a fun thing tosee play out.
You know, hopefully he getsmore screen time in the next two
episodes.
Gotta know if he's going upthe hill to Gary's.
Oh, man.
Surely they have to, because Iwant to see that.
(38:42):
The scene where he is.
Gary's looking at Greg islooking Belinda.
He's kind of seems like he'ssizing up the kid.
Say that again.
Remember the.
There's parallel scenes acouple episodes ago where Belinda
is researching Greg.
That's right.
And Greg is researchingBelinda and is like on the son's
(39:04):
Instagram maybe and like, kindof doing a deep.
Maybe it was hers.
But he's doing a deep dive onthe whole fam.
Putting in a little homework.
Unlike our Guy Donovan, whojust will not finish an assignment.
Well, what'd you think of Piper?
Where do you think themonastery thing's going?
Cause this is where.
(39:24):
Importantly, as both RatliffRascals independently recall what's
happened, Saxon has to be reminded.
But his brother, during apeaceful moment of meditation, as
he's letting thoughts come and go.
There it is.
I don't have a lot to sayabout her particular storyline at
(39:45):
the moment.
I think.
Or in this episode.
It was one of the leastinteresting to me.
Although her dad, like youmentioned, that was pretty fascinating
to see him get this stuff.
Maybe he had never heardbefore or he has never heard in a
situation where he was listening.
(40:05):
Now, that was good to me.
Her.
I don't think that.
I don't think Piper really gotme thinking much.
She probably will this week.
I think using her as this, youknow, I can't tell if they're setting
her up to just be like therest of her family, that she's kind
of a tourist in this monasteryworld and is looking for.
(40:28):
You know, she tells the monk,your books meant so much to me.
These people don't understand me.
Just kind of like a classic.
Mm.
Mom and dad don't get it.
Yeah.
And I don't know how can youtell if there's actual, like, enlightenment
going on there or if it's justlike, this is the band aid that I
put on a problem.
I'm eventually gonna realizethat I'm just like them and her mom.
(40:50):
I think it asks interestingquestions, like how.
What is our capacity for change?
How much can we adopt othermindsets that.
Her mom doesn't say it likethis, but points out like you already
have a framework for answeringthe questions that you're asking.
Yeah.
You know, you're raised in church.
You.
We figured this out.
Why are you.
(41:12):
Is this like a shiny object to you?
Because it's unfamiliar, butyou're going to be the same person
once you grasp it.
Yeah.
Bookends one of our earlierpoints that these are hard people
to change.
Going into a resort designedhelp you find some sort of fix or
(41:33):
enlightenment.
It's good stuff.
It is.
I like that.
That's a extra little thing wehaven't seen quite.
Quite this thoroughly with theother two seasons.
And then throw in a darker tone.
Yeah.
It's a really good season so far.
I think.
I think we've reached the end.
And the next episode, whichcould be early or it could be a standard
(41:55):
Tuesday episode, willcertainly cover Adolescents on Netflix.
We appreciate y'all listening.
I'm Blaine.
And for Adam and Donovan.
He'll be back.
We hope GayTalk's not yoursecurity guard.
Thanks for listening.
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