January 21, 2025 • 47 mins
This week, the Taking It Down cast reflect on the profound work of director and musician David Lynch (1:51).
Then it's the much-anticipated second season of 'Severance' on Apple TV+ as it has finally arrived, and they start broad, with no spoilers, on its complexities and themes (10:30).
Blaine, Donovan, and Adam then get into the spoilers of the first episode of the second season where they explore the show's unique premise, the shows' questions, identity, and self (22:22). The discussion touches on the balance between mystery and character development, as well as the show's clever use of humor amidst some dark plot lines.
For more, always check out The Alabama Take website, which is linked here: https://www.thealabamatake.com/
For more from the podcast advertisement for Seddy Bimco, find their site here at this link: https://www.seddy-bimco-part-2-the-revenge.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey everyone.
Welcome back to Taking it Down.
Or come on in if it's yourfirst visit to the Working Man's
TV podcast.
We're going to talk aboutshows and then we'll do the best
we can do to offer insight.
In fact, this week it's thereturn of the long awaited, much
talked about second season ofSeverance on Apple tv.
Plus, if you're new to thispodcast, it may help to know that
(00:23):
we always begin by avoidinganything that would ruin the episode
or show for you.
Because then we'll take a 30second break or so before we get
into spoilers.
Donovan and Adam are about tojoin me.
I'm Blaine.
Thanks for listening.
Check out a lot more on thealabamatake.com Alabama tape projection.
(00:52):
Well, that's.
That's them right there.
Welcome to Adam and Donovan.
Guys, I have bad news and goodnews, but I'll give you the bad news
first.
I know how this works.
The bad news is I got theseverance done, but instead of it
separating my mind betweenwork and home, they split it between
podcasting and everything else.
(01:12):
So I have no memory of whatI've watched.
But you want the good news?
The good news is that I'm notsure how that's going to be any different
than any other podcast episodewe've ever done.
So my wife is encouraging meto get marriage severance, which
would be.
I think it's when you can'tremember what a jackass you were
(01:33):
outside the house.
I thought it might be youcan't remember what an asshole you
were the night before, which is.
I think I've had that donebecause I wake up, I'm like, what's
up?
Oh, you're still mad?
I need other people to havethat surgery done.
Yeah, exactly.
What's up?
(01:53):
We're going to talk aboutseverance and its return soon.
But before we do, I think we'dbe a little remiss not mentioning
the passing of director andmusician David lynch, who died Thursday.
The three of us are Davidlynch fans and admirers, even I would
say so.
I wanted to ask what you'regoing to take away from his work
(02:13):
now that it is sealed and done.
You ever read Catching the BigFish Plane?
A little book he wrote about creativity?
I know, but I'm going to write.
I'm writing it down now.
I didn't know it existed.
It's about creativity and alsotranscendental meditation.
Hey, I love both.
I really do not mean.
But just they're just likelittle simple almost like thoughts.
(02:34):
I like Books like that.
One of the things that stuckwith me.
I just love it.
It's like he's talking to you.
But one of the things thatjust stuck with me was he was talking
about making Eraserhead.
And there's a scene where acharacter is either walking, coming
towards her, away from thecamera, through.
Yeah.
And just with one thing or theother, he's like.
You know, it was like five orsix years before we finished that.
(02:56):
Like, the guy was just like.
I don't know.
Like, something in that is like.
Like, it's not like, look athow great this is what I did.
But he really made stuff thathe believed in and he shared it with
us.
And sometimes it seems.
He seems like, for a lot ofpeople, one of those artists that
just works on the lizard brain.
(03:16):
Yeah.
Like, you just see it andyou're like, yeah, this is great.
Yeah.
And it was great.
But he was.
He should have been the mostinsufferable person in the world.
And there was not a whiff ofpretension to him on top of that.
He's hilarious.
Very funny.
You know, I think Donovan,what you said in our group text about
the way that if he's notalready thought of like this, I think
(03:40):
time will reveal the depth ofhis impact on American art.
But you said it's.
It's kind of like we're livingthrough the day that Walt Whitman
died or Melville or EmilyDickinson or something.
And I.
I hadn't thought about it inthose terms, but that's absolutely
the case, I think, becausespecifically, as an American artist,
(04:02):
he just.
He played with nationalidentity and things that are big
questions, you know, but hedid it all along.
Like, you're saying Donovanwith, I don't know, such a soft human
touch.
That's kind of.
I've seen.
I've seen friends who maybedon't spend as much time in film
world or TV world as we do saythat they feel like they're not smart
(04:25):
enough for lynch or they'regonna have to, like, watch these
YouTube explainers or whatever.
And I.
I mean, I think that you canget a lot out of that.
And I love reading about.
It's, you know, the mark ofsomething great is that other people
can think about it and expandupon it.
I think it's also just meantto be experienced.
And there's a.
Absolutely.
(04:46):
There's like a strong beliefin human potential.
Not.
Not his own potential, buthuman potential behind everything
that he did.
And it has such a kind akindness and generosity and all these.
These things.
That may feel out of step withhis public uninformed Persona of
(05:07):
like he's this like weirdokind of gross out surrealist or whatever.
No, I think this was such akind man.
And like every time I wouldlisten to a podcast with them or
anything like that, it's, youknow, he's talking about this meditation,
this ability to go deep likethat, to be creative is something
innate in all of us.
I love that.
Adam, something that made methink of while you were talking was
(05:30):
one of the things that I,until the Straight Story was not
easily available to watchuntil I think 2020ish.
And when I saw that, I waslike, okay, I've seen Twin Peaks,
I've seen some movies, I knowwhat's up.
And it was so interesting to see.
For me to see a G rated moviecompletely consistent with his style,
(05:52):
with his concerns about what'swoven in the fabric of America, with
his concerns about how wetreat and interact with each other.
So it really was like, oh,wow, none of it is window dressing.
It's all authentic.
This isn't.
Maybe no one's getting shot orwhatever in this one, but it's all
part of the same work and it'sso good for listeners.
(06:13):
That movie is now streaming onDisney, I think.
Is it still on Disney?
It is very, very good.
When people have asked in thelast few days, what's a good entry
point?
I always say Mulholland reallyis a.
Is a strong one.
But I think Straight Story.
Straight Story is like, it hasall of his.
(06:33):
Like, it almost watches likeTerence Malik had an editing hand
on a David lynch piece.
But it's only 90 minutes, you know.
Yeah.
All of the things happeningunder the surface and Straight Story,
I mean, we could have a wholeepisode about that movie.
I can talk just like the soundand the, the camera work.
(06:54):
It almost feels like there'sheart, but also terror.
I get it, David.
I get it.
David Lynch.
There's tremendous violenceand dark and upsetting things on
the corners of, of the whole story.
Well, it is streaming.
If we ever, if we ever haverun out of topics, you know, that's
certainly something we could do.
If you guys don't mind mefurther kind of quoting you on these
(07:16):
ideas, you're saying.
I pulled up my phone because Ithought y'all said it so well the
other day yesterday that Adamnoted that people tend to get defensive,
or they can get defensive.
Yeah.
Because they think they'remissing something about lynch and
they may even turn their noseup at him.
But Adam further Explains that.
No, that's it.
(07:36):
That's let go.
And to that, I would say ifsomebody says, I didn't get it.
Did you watch it?
Yeah, I watched all of it.
Then you got it.
Yep.
Adam said that people will sayI'm not smart enough for this.
But yesterday Adam said,that's assuming everything can be
figured out.
And I love that notion.
I can't figure out everything.
(07:59):
And that's a good, comfortableposition to have.
It's just the human situation, really.
And Donovan, you added thatsmarts won't get you there while
the whole thing remainsincredibly smart.
And I love that too, about Lynch.
I think he.
He pulls that off partiallybecause, again, going back to the
(08:20):
idea of.
Of human goodness and empathyand all of these things, like you're.
You're supposed to intuit alot of the most important parts of
these movies, shows, whatever.
I agree with that.
It's a feeling, you know?
Right.
It's not just an intellectual exercise.
How did it make you feel?
I love that he, with thereturn in the Internet age where
(08:40):
we were so obsessed withpicking stuff apart, made something
that like, kind of can't befigured out.
Like, you can kind of see things.
But he deliberately made it sothe pieces don't all connect.
And if you want to go theother direction and watch, you know,
five or six YouTube videosabout it, that's fun too, in a way.
Yeah, you can do that.
Like, please do.
Ultimately, you know,ultimately exists to be experienced
more than anything else.
(09:02):
One thing that may not bequite true, and you guys correct
me if you can, twin peaks in1990 seem like the beginning of speculative
TV culture that's now in everycorner of the Internet.
Like back then you had tosubscribe to underground magazines.
I wonder though, if there wasa serialized TV show that garnered
that much guesswork beforethat, that much.
(09:24):
That level when they werewondering who shot Junior.
Yeah, but that wasn't quitethe same, but.
I'm kidding.
No, you're right.
No, I remember it too.
And it was a summer of longdiscussions between my parents and
their friends.
I can recall that quite well.
But to this level, where thereis some sort of other world, maybe
(09:48):
there's a murder.
What is the dream stuff?
Who is Bob if he is the murderer?
And it's just a lot more.
The level got thicker.
The levels.
I mean, it's even joked aboutin the Simpsons multiple times.
Multiple times.
Yeah.
I worry.
Like most things in Netflixengine that is 2017 short film.
(10:09):
What did Jack do?
We'll get lost.
We need the screen.
I kind of like it.
I love that one.
It's interesting that youbrought up that idea of weekly discussion
and pulling things apartbecause I thought about that with
our other topic today.
Not to like jump on your.
No, no, no, no, no.
I was about to segue into that.
But I, I mean, I thought aboutthe history of shows that have enough
(10:34):
weight and meat on the bone towhere you can really spend time picking
it apart week on week.
And how severance is, isdefinitely one of the stronger entries
in that category in the lastfive, 10 years.
Yeah.
Just remember, guys, we're innon spoiler section.
So speaking of tv, it makesyou think.
Yeah, exactly, Adam.
Here's one of theinvestigative opportunities for us
(10:56):
all.
It's finally back.
Severance from Apple TV plusfelt like it gained a lot of popularity
after it finished airing itsfirst season's episodes or right
around the end of the first season.
And maybe that's becausepeople like to wait until the entire
season is available.
And I get that.
Wonderful.
(11:16):
Severance is complex, fascinating.
It's weekly.
I love that.
Y'all know it's created by DanErickson and directed mostly by Ben
Stiller and another guy namedAl McArdle.
He's an Irishman.
I so I probably butchered hisfirst name.
It's sorry.
It stars Adam Scott as aworker in an odd office for a company
(11:37):
named Lumen where he and histhree colleagues have been severed.
That is a procedure where theyaffect your mind and you only know
what happens at work.
And then once you go in theelevator and rise up the elevator,
it turns back into you in theoutside world.
Innies and Audis as they're known.
(11:59):
You know that even from likethe first episode.
Again, we're not spoilinganything, so don't fear.
The show also stars JohnTurturro, Zach Cherry and Britt Lauer
as Mark's three co workers.
Patricia Arquette is his bossas well as his odd neighbor.
We won't do spoilers here, butperhaps, maybe, let's see, let's
(12:19):
kind of figure out where we'regoing to spoil maybe pretty much
anything in the in the firstseasons up for grabs right here for
anyone listening because it isa spoiler filled show and I understand
how that works for listeners.
If you haven't watched all thefirst season, you may want to catch
up and then once the breakends, we will talk about this first
(12:40):
episode of season two.
So I have concerns with thefirst episode back and I don't withhold
the specific examples, butit's kind of a reflection on the
show as a whole anyway.
It's just a question of can ithandle the amount of mystery or questions
that it wants to solve andpose it lean.
That's exactly the way I feltwatching it.
I'm a little worried it leansinto being a show for Reddit.
(13:04):
I've never been one for apiece of TV that requires going elsewhere
for the full picture, thoughI've been a huge fan of art that
gives me the full picture andI can go elsewhere and have some
more fun with it that I do love.
So there's a difference in mymind, but nothing that's like mandatory.
I gotta go find this.
Anyway, my answer to thoseconcerns is that it, it satisfies
(13:27):
me enough with real humanthemes to avoid trappings of is it
gonna answer this question?
Yeah, I agree with that.
And I think I even read aninterview that they did with Erickson,
did with Variety, I thinkwhere the interview straight up asked
do you ever feel in danger ofturning your show into Lost?
(13:48):
I'm glad you brought that.
And I think maybe they're natural.
You talked about how it pickedup fans.
I think there's a lot of showsout there now with great premises
that don't always deliver.
Yeah.
On down the Line and the waymaybe word gets out, even if you're
not spoiling it, that, hey,the weighty themes that they bring
(14:08):
up are handled in asatisfactory way through season one.
Even things that are kind oftough to articulate, like why is
this so compelling?
Feel really compelling whenthey're on the screen.
Some of that we'll get intowith episode one of season two.
But it makes sense that it'spicked up steam.
I do always wonder, is thisshow massive in the way that I think
(14:30):
some bands are massive, yetthey still play like club sized rooms?
You know what I mean?
Like, like who?
All of my, all of my friendswatch this show.
Yeah.
But is that reflective of thepopulation at large?
So.
But I think it's pretty popular.
I do think it's a reallypopular show.
I mean doing the viralmarketing thing at Grand Central
(14:51):
in New York a few days ago, Imean, Ben Stiller is a huge name.
All these things.
It's, it's a big show.
But I do think if you're onthe outside looking in, do I want
to get involved in this?
I think, yeah, I think it's worthwhile.
It's worth the energy.
Shout out to my buddy Hank.
He messaged me three or fourweeks ago and said that Reddit is
(15:14):
ablaze with this show, Severance.
Should I watch it?
And I said, oh, yeah, forsure, man.
It's good.
They've really.
They've broken it down to athe nth degree on there.
Feels like a good time to jumpinto only one first season.
As a whole, I'd say pretty good.
You're not gonna be madwatching it, you know, it's not like
you got five seasons ofresearch to do.
(15:35):
If you're interested, I willsay that since Lost has been brought
up, many writers, magazinewriters have compared it to Lost.
I hate Lost to this.
To this day, I'll say itcorrupted television to a degree.
Does Severance pose to mequestions it can't answer or doesn't
(15:56):
want to answer?
Well, that's yet to be seen.
But what separates it fromLost and other shows that came in
that mold is that Severance'sthemes feel purposeful, whereas Lost
and its themes were added inpost production.
Oh, it's about religion.
When you know good and wellthat's tacked on because they had
to have an answer of some kind.
(16:17):
I say post production, butnear pro.
Post production, near the end.
That's a great point, Blaine,because I think that, like, Lost
would have certainly been adifferent show, at least in our brains
and minds, if it hadn't beenchanged and also marketed as, like,
oh, there's going to be an answer.
You're going to find out themystery, as, as opposed to, like,
I don't know, a show that's,like, we don't really know what happens
(16:38):
when we die or something like that.
And I think that, like,Severance's premise is good enough.
Pretty much all of us workthat, like, there's, you know, it's.
It's like there is that otherelement of, like, oh, I see, like,
a reflection of, like, a kindof funhouse world of my own here.
And I think that is notsomething that needs an answer.
(16:58):
It just is.
So it's already kind of, like,satisfying to see the setting and
then if, you know, I hope thatthey leave us open to a little mystery
and they don't get too Lost.
But I think just the premiseon its own is satisfying in the same
way that maybe with Lost, ifit would have been like, okay, we
just have a really goodepisode about them surviving in the
(17:18):
jungle or whatever, as opposedto gotta answer a question, gotta
answer a question, gottaanswer a question.
Or pose a question is probably their.
Their fault.
Yeah, that's.
That's a good point.
The other thing that I thinkSeverance did that was really clever.
Was run down all of the waysthat we would have naturally reacted
to that situation.
Yeah.
Like, they try to just walk out.
(17:39):
Right.
Like they.
They do all of the things.
It's almost like a Survivorkind of movie where they need to
show you, no, you really arewell and truly screwed.
You know, like, you're in atightly controlled world.
And I.
I think all of that has set itup for success in seasons two.
(18:00):
And they're already talkingabout three.
Yeah.
One of the things they said inthat interview that I.
I thought was an interestingway of putting this if you're a showrunner,
is the writer's room.
They use the phrase thewriters room.
Had a lot of blue sky inseason two.
And what they did duringseason two has made it to where season
three should be easier to put together.
(18:23):
Meaning that they have createda world of rules for themselves.
Like the story is on tracks.
They kind of had to invent thetracks through season one and two.
Yeah.
And now it'll pick up steam asthe season goes along.
Yeah.
The first season was fine onanswering most of what it posed,
other than the big things thatthey wanted to wait on for season
(18:44):
two.
We'll see.
It does keep you guessing in agood way.
It's well acted.
The story's layered enough formy taste.
It develops a sense of mysteryand dread.
Really?
Yeah.
And I was gonna say it's like.
It's eerie.
It is eerie.
You know, I love that.
It's like taking to theextreme, like the person you are
(19:06):
is alienated from laborbecause you're literally two different
things when you work for the company.
You are everything for thecompany, and you're.
You're kind of being heldhostage by your own self.
Right.
Exactly.
And that is interesting enoughto keep it going, I think.
Oh, yeah.
There's an element, too, ofwhen you're watching the Innies,
the in universe stuff that,you know, they're underground in
(19:31):
this world without news,without weather, without, like, basic
troubles every day.
And you could see how there'sa bit of a escapist, like, oh, I
can just go there and not dealwith the world, make money, come
up again and live my life likethat in a way that feels almost like
(19:52):
cocoon like, or womb like.
And they.
Even through season one, a lotof the logic that they use to keep
them in line is pretty childlike.
Right.
Like, they kind of cheat themor treat them as naive children.
Obviously, season one ends.
They realize they have tomaybe adjust that strategy.
But I don't know the setup is.
(20:12):
It's enough to make you.
That's kind of what I wasgetting at with things that almost
feel trite when you say themout loud are given room to feel more
profound on screen.
You know, like Donovan wassaying, like, this is something we
all deal with.
Is this a decision that youwould make given the opportunity?
They do treat them childlike.
And you wonder how much oftheir mind is childlike because it's
(20:34):
been severed from the outside world.
Isn't there a moment where inthe first season where heli has come
in as a newcomer and they askher a bunch of questions, she only
gets the one about Delaware.
Right?
Like, is Delaware a state or something?
Right.
There's a.
I got on YouTube just to watchsome recaps and you have to.
Yeah, yeah, just thepreviously on did an okay job from
(20:57):
Apple.
But yeah, it was still a lot.
But they just pointed outthat, you know, they're trying to
feel out how effective the theimplant is because obviously you
need to be able.
You need to remember that youlearned how to speak a language,
but you don't need to rememberyour childhood.
You know, like, how do youseparate those two things?
(21:18):
It's a top tier exemplar ofhow science fiction can hold up a
mirror to truths of our world.
And this one gets close enoughto the real world that maybe it isn't
even full blown science fiction.
Not sure what the genre here is.
Thriller even.
Call it science fiction.
I mean thriller for sure.
Yeah.
But a thrilling.
I think the premise is stillscience fiction, which is something
(21:40):
we could fight about all dayand it doesn't matter.
No, it doesn't matter.
Let's take a break.
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(22:24):
Well, let's try our damnedestto unpack some of severance if we
remember the first season as a whole.
I think I do, though I reallyhat this is a funny statement to
make.
I really had forgotten BigChunks of the first season, like
the whole Keir Egan plot idea,I totally had forgotten.
(22:45):
But what I did is I pulled upthe last two episodes of the first
season and kind of skimmed them.
Fast forward through themreally quickly.
And then I watched, I think,like a 10 minute YouTube thing, and
it solidified the.
The one thing that completelydeleted from my brain.
I don't know how, I don't know why.
When I finished watching thatfirst episode and it said directed
(23:06):
by Ben Stiller, I was like,oh, yeah, that's.
I kind of remember that.
Like, just completely forgot.
Yeah, it is weird that he's involved.
Not weird, but just like, he's good.
He did a good job.
I thought.
He just.
He's very, very good.
He directed and maybe evenwrote all of Escape from Dannemora
on Showtime.
And I love.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
(23:27):
I forgot about that earlier.
I said, I lay my worries torest with the show because I think
it's intelligently examiningthemes, big ideas, and it's quite
aware that that's what it'sdoing and wants to do.
But one of my favorites thatit tries to unpack is that of identity
and Persona.
(23:48):
It's not one of those themes.
You see a lot of TV looking atmovies more so.
And I'm often brought back tothe novel To Kill a Mockingbird,
which could be one of thefirst examples of code switching
in pop culture.
And that's when Scout's blownaway by Calpurnia speaking differently
at church versus anywhere else.
(24:10):
And all that does.
I know that's code switching alittle different there, but it does
remind me that we have.
I've got a work Persona, ahome Persona, friend and family,
and so on and so on.
I mean, as many people as youcan interact with is that's how many
Personas you could possibly have.
Do we have podcast identities?
Yeah, I'm the rowdy one.
(24:31):
Oh, chill.
Chill out now.
No, but just the idea ofPersonas, I just love that.
I often talk to people aboutthat at.
At school, students.
I tell them, you know, youhave a Persona, and that's part of
your argument that you need to make.
I like it.
I think you're exactly right,Blaine, because it kind of like,
(24:52):
it kind of starts to ask thequestion, who.
Who are you?
And, like, I think as far asthe show has gone, at least there's
sort of a.
Like, it's not completelyoutside of the realm of possibility
that the answer will be like,there is no self.
There's the you at work.
There's the you at home,there's not necessarily like a consistent
unified personality.
(25:13):
Or maybe there is a self and something.
What's his name as Buddha.
It's like Buddhist.
Okay.
Alan Watts, that kind of thing.
I mean, we're right back toDavid lynch and old Harry Dean having
a conversation.
Man, I just was watching thisepisode because my pump was so primed,
and I was like, how cool wouldit have been if they'd gotten David
(25:35):
lynch in here for an episodeor two?
See, I don't think that thisshow works with lynch, at least in
the same way, because thereare rules in severance, and I don't
think that he observes thoseat all.
I just think like, not.
Not him directing, but him aslike a character I could see.
Oh, he would have been great, right?
Yeah.
Not directing.
(25:56):
No.
The man could wear the hellout of a suit.
Exactly.
Like as like an executive or something.
Like, he would be so good.
His haircut's all ready forthe kind of vintage look.
Yeah.
Would have been great.
Yeah, that would have been hilarious.
You want to talk about thosesets, all those.
The implementation of colorsin this show.
I love it.
(26:18):
Something about that red ballfor the game of sharing just made
me feel icky.
It made a sound the ball didwhen it hit their hands.
There was so, like, I thoughtabout the way that they introduce
tactile things in this world.
The sound of the keyboards,the sound of things switching on
and off, the ball hittingtheir hands.
(26:39):
It felt like it had weight and substance.
They do such a good job withmaking it feel like laboratory setting
with the like.
Like it's all a maze, right.
Like, like they're the rats inthe maze.
Right.
Like it's all the maze.
And you know, if you've everseen like these experiments they'll
do for rats, right.
Like sometimes you'll have.
They'll see like, oh, are you.
You know, how do they react inthis area?
(27:00):
How do they react in that area?
And it almost kind of feelslike, like you get the green room
to calm you down, you get the red.
And it all feels very sterileand clinical, but in a way that is
like, kind of gross.
Almost like hospital cafeteria food.
Well, in the in universe wayof explaining that away is that,
(27:21):
you know, this.
We're into spoilers now.
Right.
For sure.
So it opens with them sayingthey're five months.
Marcus has been gone for five months.
Yeah.
So you could have, in thattime, you tell Audi, Marcus, whatever's
happening up there, when hefinally comes back, that's plenty
of time to do Reconstructionon things, to change the rooms up,
(27:44):
to change the hallways, all of this.
So that first frantic scene ofhim running around and trying, like
what?
Looking for his co workers.
Is he disoriented?
But to, to him, no time haspassed at all.
He's looking for the wellnessplace to find Gemma.
Right.
And it's not there.
Right.
(28:05):
Which is just so geniusbecause there's an explanation for
it that's plausible, but alsoit's being experienced in this surreal
kind of sci fi way.
I don't know.
That was so clever.
And the, the way that theystayed with the Enies this whole
episode and experience days asthey experienced them.
(28:27):
You know, I just have littlequestions like, what if.
What if your Audi drank toomuch the night before?
I think that all the time.
And I think it's evenmentioned in the first season.
Right.
Like, oh, I must have dranktoo much last night because I'm tired
today.
I love that.
Or like, what if they did aparticularly hard leg workout and
the guy is struggling to walk?
What?
How you're sharing physicalitywith someone that you don't know.
(28:50):
It's so interesting.
But that, that series of themzoning out and then coming to, you
know, like, how do you evenknow when it's four minutes till
five and you're like, allright, I'm gonna knock off.
Yeah.
To them you have to walk downthis hallway that in their world
they're gonna walk directlyback down.
These are the things thatstart when you're watching and you're
(29:12):
like, this feels so profoundin what it's saying, but then you
say it out loud and it's kindof like, it's interesting, but it's
not as you almost have toexperience it in show to get the
full feeling.
There's some point they keepfocusing on the clock and also looking
at watches and stuff.
And I felt the same way, youknow, where it's like you start to
(29:35):
wonder like, what are youcounting down to?
There's, you know, there's nothing.
Why do you care?
Yeah, I think it, I'm probablygonna misuse this, this word.
Something that the.
The in and out and just the inand out and just focusing solely
on them really encouraged atleast me as a viewer to kind of experience
this in like aphenomenological way.
(29:58):
Right.
Where I'm like, really?
Like, what, what is it like toget behind these guys eyes and just
kind of identify very closelywith them?
And I think keeping it up onthe ennis the whole episode also
really helped with that.
You're kind of stuck in there too.
And one of the things thisepisode did was use more close ups,
I think than it ever has.
(30:19):
We had.
Especially in thisenvironment, we.
We have those close up.
You did what you're talking about.
And also just made thecontainment feel worse.
Because those close up also,they weren't just close ups of one
person.
It was a two shot, I guess iswhat you call them.
(30:39):
It's where you would see thelittle bit of the other person they
were talking to right there.
Which in Milchick's case feltlike he is the one that's containing
them well.
And you're also.
That's being used to pull backon season one's expansion of their
(31:01):
universe.
You know, as they go to talkto other departments and they seem
to have some autonomy to runthe halls and find this different,
you know.
And then they wake up, youknow, and they see the outside world
and all of a sudden this is assmall as it's felt since episode
one of season one.
You know, they only go.
They're in their office andthey go to the break room.
And that's pretty much it.
(31:22):
There's some roaming thehalls, but not a lot.
It builds a lot of tensionthat way.
And so did the camera work ofhim running in the hall.
It's like almost CGI kind ofcamera work.
No, I don't think it was.
I may be easily impressed, butI really like that beginning.
Yeah.
For me it set the tone verywell for the rest of the episode.
Bit of silence to build sometension too.
(31:43):
Ms.
Hwang, she was just staring atMark after telling him she's not
his friend.
Yeah.
I really liked how long theystuck on Adam Scott's face there.
Me too.
There's.
And then he says three friends.
Yeah.
Yeah, she's good.
So good.
The young woman they haveplaying Ms.
Wong, I found her manager faceto be like, it's so good.
(32:08):
They have like a kid doingthis because it's like she's.
She's doing such a good likesupervisor face.
But you know, you're 13 orhowever old you are.
That's what in that Varietyinterview they said they read a bunch
of.
Of young people for that role.
But this particular youngactress just had such a camera.
What he said like a corporateface or come something like that.
(32:30):
That was.
Yeah, just.
It's that kind of detached,like I'm smiling but I'm not really
here kind of thing.
In reality, the actor is 18,looks younger.
Worked for me.
Helly kind of has a.
Some silence in that shedoesn't tell what happens to her
(32:51):
on the outside.
She doesn't reveal she's oneof the Egans.
She chooses a lie.
Well, this is the question, right?
Yeah.
Like, is the.
It's either a bit on the noseor it's red herring material that,
like, is that heli or has she been.
That's actually her Audi comein to try to tamp down the.
(33:12):
Yeah.
Revolution or whatever.
Yep.
But there's two reads, right.
Like she's either either thatis the Annie that they've known and
she's withholding thatinformation out of shame.
Uh huh.
You know, or it's the Audi and she's.
They talked about what.
What survives your subconscious.
Like some of her at times, shecould have a shorter fuse than the
(33:35):
others if things didn't go her way.
Like, maybe that's a life ofprivilege coming out subconsciously.
These are YouTubers talkingabout season one.
Thought that was a prettyastute observation.
But does she say that therewas a gardener there at night?
Because she would have livedin a very fancy house where there
were gardeners working on the grounds.
(33:56):
I was wondering that too.
Like, is this just in the backof her head how it should be?
Right.
So either way, it's kind ofincriminating about who she actually
is.
Either she's a bad liar thatcame up with a.
A bad story at that moment, orit's seeping through her.
Her subconscious and it's verymuch like a.
(34:16):
It's a banana.
What could it cost?
Kind of.
Yeah.
I like the.
I'm curious to see where thisone is going to go.
I hope it goes well with Helly.
Just because her, like,visceral hatred for herself, I thought
was one of the best and mostinteresting parts of season one.
And it makes sense, you know,kind of what you just said, Adam,
(34:38):
makes sense.
Right.
If she's someone who's notused to being told what to do, to
be captured, you know,imprisoned essentially by her own
self, must completely drive.
So I'm.
I'm curious.
Like, is it.
Is it shame?
Is it.
Does she not want to reveal it?
Is she.
What's going on?
I.
I think it's interesting and Ihope they play with it.
Well.
She had one of the mosthaunting lines when she.
(35:00):
They videotape her out outsideself telling her, annie, you are
not a human being.
You don't get to make this decision.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're not whole and completein the same way that I am.
Right.
Yeah.
You can also point to.
She has just A second or twolong of trouble to turn on her computer
and her.
Yep.
And her.
(35:20):
Any shouldn't have justreached and turned it on after the
experience.
Yeah.
Did you guys catch that?
Lumen has brought in thesethree new micro data workers from.
They did so from shutting downoffices because it seems like there's
not enough people that.
That were interested in being severed.
They had to shut those offices down.
It's an interesting read.
(35:41):
Yeah.
And the.
They allude to how many more,you know, in that video that they
show them, they allude to howmany like 200 something spaces worldwide.
Right.
But does that imply that allof them have severed workers?
Or that in first replacementcrew talks about like, you know,
oh, we had animatronic.
(36:04):
What did they call that roomwhere you go to see the house and
the perpetuity room.
They know.
They must.
They're just standing still.
They must be like an older oneor one of the guys had come from
even an even poorer, older facility.
It's just an interesting.
They were just mops for that guy.
Yeah.
What?
His.
His perpetuity room was just mops.
What's going on here?
(36:24):
And his elevator was a rope.
How.
How can that be?
I don't get it.
And he also had a.
They had awarded him the samething that they had given Mark, which
is a picture of your face.
And except his isn't in glass.
It's just carved of wood.
Yeah.
It's just like a rock.
It puts me on edge how theirfaces change in the elevator.
(36:48):
Like their expressions.
It's almost uncanny.
Valley or AI feeling.
It's not.
I don't think.
But it's probably just greatacting, but makes you feel uneasy.
I wouldn't be surprised ifthey jazzed it up a little just with
like some of the camera tricksthey do.
I think.
Adam, I think you said this,but I really did like the choice
to be.
They're in the elevator andyou get half a second of Allie them.
(37:13):
And then I thought Adam Scottdid a great job of this the first
season.
And then the face changes andnow you're the.
And I think that is unsettling.
It is.
Ms.
Huang's actor is actually 18.
Another, by the way, is thatthe voice of the new training video,
Lumen is Listening, is voicedby Keanu Reeves.
(37:34):
Oh, I didn't know.
That's awesome.
I didn't pick it up.
I didn't pick up on that.
It wouldn't surprise me ifthere's some connection to Gemma
and Ms.
Swing.
There's that room.
Remember when they're walkingaround and they see the.
The livestock being cloned orsomething's going on there, and they
say they're not ready.
They showed that in thepreviously on.
(37:55):
Right.
Yes, they did.
Got to be a reason for that.
Do you not find it odd thatthe characters don't usually see
themselves as having another side?
That they're.
It's almost like thesecharacters are very strict about
referencing the Audi and theInnie, as if it's a totally different
person and not themselves.
Like Mark and Helly discussinghis wife.
(38:17):
I think one of them, Mark saysit, it's the same ish person, so
I need to try to find her orI'm the same ish person.
It's weird that they don'tconsider that.
I mean, that's a very probablynatural feeling.
But I do think it's kind ofweird that they don't logically make
the connection that.
No, that's me still.
Well, I think they wereplaying with that in the.
(38:38):
When they're in the.
The first meeting with Ms.
Wong, it's.
And they're staring at each other.
You know, there's that momentof like, I have four new friends
and they just had that stare down.
And we talked about.
You're kind of wondering,like, if she is the clone, maybe
or possibly even like hischild or something like that.
Is there some, like,subconscious thing happening here
(38:59):
that transcends the severance procedure?
But then, like, thatconversation you're talking about
Blaine, between him and Heli,has to be like the most layered conversation
that's happened so far.
If you're reading into it,that Heli is somehow either the Audi
or has been conditioned insome different way than everyone
else.
And obviously they have justmade out and been hilariously.
(39:22):
It's funny that this show canbe comical when it's dealing with
all these funny themes.
Like in the middle of that.
That video, when they showthem kissing, is it Dylan that says
the fuck?
Yeah.
No, this show can be funny.
All good dramas can be funny.
And there's still officepolitics going on.
Yeah.
(39:43):
And then they had another onethat got me was Mark W's calling
him Mr.
Milkshake Shake.
Yeah.
I also enjoyed.
Yeah.
Mark W.
Saying what you like to Miss Wong.
Why.
Why are you a child?
Yeah.
She's like, that's great.
Because of when I was born.
And we were all thinking it.
Why is this a kid?
(40:03):
Speaking of profundity, Irv'sstatement that the last time he was
happy was when he was nottrying to be happy.
Just floored me.
I almost had to reach andpause it and be like what?
Wait, let me think about this.
And then you add that he wasreferring to working and not trying
to be happy.
I'm sure it might make it lessthoughtful, but I don't know.
It struck me.
(40:24):
Milchick's really putting themind games to them.
And I'll tell you this.
I don't believe a word he says.
I would not be surprised ifDylan doesn't even have a wife that
he makes up this.
Gretchen.
I know he's got a kid.
Right?
Because we saw him in thecloset or I think he was in the closet
at his house when he cameawake or whatever.
If people talked about themtreating them like children in the
(40:46):
first one, you're starting tosee maybe more adult levels of manipulation.
Like.
Yeah.
It seems so on the nose tocreate a divisive element with this
crew of four who's caused you problems.
To privilege one with information.
Set them apart and then sendthem back out.
That's just a little crackopening that can turn into something
(41:08):
significant.
That's just good management.
Divide, divide and conquer.
Right there.
Exactly.
Can you.
Can you imagine if they had brought.
If this universe.
If this workplace ran onShogun rules.
Go on.
They'd be, I don't know,they'd be, you know, they'd be convincing
seppuku every other episode.
(41:30):
You know, who wouldn't havehad an uprising if they'd been in
charge.
Right?
Yeah.
But she.
Uh huh.
The adult manipulation ofhaving the corporation swallow up
the rebellion or say we're onyour side.
That's always a way to kill dissent.
Oh for sure.
And it's such a genius thing to.
(41:51):
You know, it immediately mademe think of like being in US History
class as a kid and like youlearn all of these things that are
these celebrated figures allalong that were enemies of the state
when they were alive.
Like even thinking back tolike something that's probably going
to be challenged with civil rights.
Basic things like that.
These were all criminals atone point, you know.
And now they've been absorbedinto a.
(42:13):
You know, made tidy and thusdefanged of any possibility of disruption.
Yeah.
Take a look at whichpoliticians celebrated Martin Luther
King Jr.
S holiday right yesterday.
When it comes to milchick,it's so impressive what Tramel Tillman
can do in making you scared shitless.
And then quite at ease justwithin the same millisecond.
(42:38):
And in the scene with Dylanand the blueprint for the visitation
room, it's simultaneous.
It's like, God damn, this is scary.
But that, you know, of course,that would be nice for any to get
to know.
Oh, okay.
I do have a family, and I getto see them once a week or whatever
they're planning on doing.
I do get the sense that he, atthis point, is not completely motivated
(43:00):
by cruelty.
He's not a sadist, like he says.
I'm here to replace the sadist.
Essentially.
Like, he.
He does seem just like hebelieves in the company and what
they're trying to do anddoesn't want to be cruel, but also
believes in the company morethan he believes in not being cruel.
Huh.
Could be the case with him.
Milkshake.
Milkshake.
(43:21):
Well, there's all this, like,weird pseudo religious kind of stuff
about the company.
Right.
That, like, you.
Yes.
It's not just like, you can bea company man.
You can be a true believer.
Yeah.
And I'm not trying to becruel, but it.
But it makes me think of somesort of weird hybrid of Mormonism
and Scientology.
(43:41):
Yeah.
Scientology.
At least for sure.
Well, I am being cruel to Scientology.
I'm not trying to be too cruelto the.
To the Mormons of our.
Of our society.
Well, it's got to besomething, too, that the.
The company was founded in 1865.
Right.
Yeah.
I think that's maybe whatstrikes me as Brigham Young kind
of thing.
Yeah.
I mean, this might be reallygeneral and humorous, but just thoughts
(44:04):
on having.
Oh, gosh, Ally.
What's her name?
Actress who plays maybe onArrested Development.
She's part of the crew, or atleast was temporarily.
Were y'all excited to see that?
She's probably gonna be a partof the show.
I saw it when she walked wason screen for the first time.
All I could think was, bumpyroad ahead.
(44:26):
I saw some people onlinesaying what a great bait and switch
to.
You know, because they were ina lot of promotional material being
involved, and it's almost likea season two of House of Cards thing.
We're like, well, this mainactress is gone now.
They have to come back.
Right.
Like, people.
Yeah.
Can be hidden in the severedworld and then be found again.
(44:47):
Oh, for sure.
And the Mark W.
Actor is known kind of as acharacter actor.
You would think he probably returns.
And then the award of havingyour face carved in that wood for
the Italian actor, that'sstill in the time for it.
Yeah.
But, yeah, Dylan didn't havetime for it.
He just swept it into hisdrawer, which is.
(45:08):
Which is what we'll do.
We'll sweep everything Into adrawer until what, Friday?
Watch Severance once more.
And can I say one?
One thing that we didn't touchon that I thought was really moving
was Dylan talking to Irving,begging him not to go out.
This episode that was such acentral part of it was you would
have to essentially killyourself on behalf of the Audi.
(45:31):
Like if you leave, you nolonger exist.
But would it feel like that would.
I mean, to me.
I see, that's.
That's an argument.
It's not.
It's not a decision of suicide.
It's like a decision of nonexistence, which.
Yes.
Different.
They would believe it servesthe greater good of their own psyche.
Framing it only in from any'sperspective this episode and having
(45:53):
them confront that decisionfor the first time.
And for one of them to belike, I need you're my friend and
I don't want to lose you.
Like, that's not just like a.
I've really enjoyed workingwith you and I don't want you to
leave.
It's a I'll never see you again.
Yes.
Kind of thing.
Yes.
That was so heavy.
Yeah.
So well done.
I suppose it's me not being asenveloped in the logic of the show,
(46:15):
but I often will think, butyou're not gonna die.
You'll actually free in yourself.
You'll be your Audi, you know.
But they don't know that.
Yeah.
I think it's doing a great.
Asking a really good questionthat is kind of like a feel like
it is a philosophical question.
Right.
Like if I.
It can go into a mattertransporter and my body is instantly
disassembled and reassembledon Mars, am I the same person?
(46:38):
Right.
I have continuity of consciousness.
But did the personality survive?
Same thing for these guys, Right?
Like, what is their personality?
If it's deleted, would it go.
Would it be how much of your memories?
Well, I mean, that's thequestion, Right?
Interesting.
Yeah.
That's why the show is good,is that it tackles these kinds of
things.
It gets you to question, butat the same time provides good characters,
(47:02):
good direction, greatcinematography, good sets.
Yeah, it's.
It's worth our time for sure.
We'll probably return to itnext week.
I don't see why not.
I don't know what the othertopic will be or if we'll have one,
but anyway, you can hear us onTuesday morning.
Most of the time things got hectic.
I accidentally did not get theepisode out until Tuesday afternoon
(47:24):
recently.
But Tuesdays count on us.
Okay.
And if you want to reach outto us by all means do.
We'd love it.
Find us on thealabamatake.
Com.
You can emailthealabamatake@gmail.com if you have
ideas, questions, thoughts,suggestions for Adam and Donovan.
I'm Blaine, and we'll be backinto the world of severance next
week.
Hey everyone.
Welcome back to Taking it Down.
Or come on in if it's yourfirst visit to the Working Man's
TV podcast.
We're going to talk aboutshows and then we'll do the best
we can do to offer insight.
In fact, this week it's thereturn of the long awaited, much
talked about second season ofSeverance on Apple tv.
Plus, if you're new to thispodcast, it may help to know that
(00:23):
we always begin by avoidinganything that would ruin the episode
or show for you.
Because then we'll take a 30second break or so before we get
into spoilers.
Donovan and Adam are about tojoin me.
I'm Blaine.
Thanks for listening.
Check out a lot more on thealabamatake.com Alabama tape projection.
(00:52):
Well, that's.
That's them right there.
Welcome to Adam and Donovan.
Guys, I have bad news and goodnews, but I'll give you the bad news
first.
I know how this works.
The bad news is I got theseverance done, but instead of it
separating my mind betweenwork and home, they split it between
podcasting and everything else.
(01:12):
So I have no memory of whatI've watched.
But you want the good news?
The good news is that I'm notsure how that's going to be any different
than any other podcast episodewe've ever done.
So my wife is encouraging meto get marriage severance, which
would be.
I think it's when you can'tremember what a jackass you were
(01:33):
outside the house.
I thought it might be youcan't remember what an asshole you
were the night before, which is.
I think I've had that donebecause I wake up, I'm like, what's
up?
Oh, you're still mad?
I need other people to havethat surgery done.
Yeah, exactly.
What's up?
(01:53):
We're going to talk aboutseverance and its return soon.
But before we do, I think we'dbe a little remiss not mentioning
the passing of director andmusician David lynch, who died Thursday.
The three of us are Davidlynch fans and admirers, even I would
say so.
I wanted to ask what you'regoing to take away from his work
(02:13):
now that it is sealed and done.
You ever read Catching the BigFish Plane?
A little book he wrote about creativity?
I know, but I'm going to write.
I'm writing it down now.
I didn't know it existed.
It's about creativity and alsotranscendental meditation.
Hey, I love both.
I really do not mean.
But just they're just likelittle simple almost like thoughts.
(02:34):
I like Books like that.
One of the things that stuckwith me.
I just love it.
It's like he's talking to you.
But one of the things thatjust stuck with me was he was talking
about making Eraserhead.
And there's a scene where acharacter is either walking, coming
towards her, away from thecamera, through.
Yeah.
And just with one thing or theother, he's like.
You know, it was like five orsix years before we finished that.
(02:56):
Like, the guy was just like.
I don't know.
Like, something in that is like.
Like, it's not like, look athow great this is what I did.
But he really made stuff thathe believed in and he shared it with
us.
And sometimes it seems.
He seems like, for a lot ofpeople, one of those artists that
just works on the lizard brain.
(03:16):
Yeah.
Like, you just see it andyou're like, yeah, this is great.
Yeah.
And it was great.
But he was.
He should have been the mostinsufferable person in the world.
And there was not a whiff ofpretension to him on top of that.
He's hilarious.
Very funny.
You know, I think Donovan,what you said in our group text about
the way that if he's notalready thought of like this, I think
(03:40):
time will reveal the depth ofhis impact on American art.
But you said it's.
It's kind of like we're livingthrough the day that Walt Whitman
died or Melville or EmilyDickinson or something.
And I.
I hadn't thought about it inthose terms, but that's absolutely
the case, I think, becausespecifically, as an American artist,
(04:02):
he just.
He played with nationalidentity and things that are big
questions, you know, but hedid it all along.
Like, you're saying Donovanwith, I don't know, such a soft human
touch.
That's kind of.
I've seen.
I've seen friends who maybedon't spend as much time in film
world or TV world as we do saythat they feel like they're not smart
(04:25):
enough for lynch or they'regonna have to, like, watch these
YouTube explainers or whatever.
And I.
I mean, I think that you canget a lot out of that.
And I love reading about.
It's, you know, the mark ofsomething great is that other people
can think about it and expandupon it.
I think it's also just meantto be experienced.
And there's a.
Absolutely.
(04:46):
There's like a strong beliefin human potential.
Not.
Not his own potential, buthuman potential behind everything
that he did.
And it has such a kind akindness and generosity and all these.
These things.
That may feel out of step withhis public uninformed Persona of
(05:07):
like he's this like weirdokind of gross out surrealist or whatever.
No, I think this was such akind man.
And like every time I wouldlisten to a podcast with them or
anything like that, it's, youknow, he's talking about this meditation,
this ability to go deep likethat, to be creative is something
innate in all of us.
I love that.
Adam, something that made methink of while you were talking was
(05:30):
one of the things that I,until the Straight Story was not
easily available to watchuntil I think 2020ish.
And when I saw that, I waslike, okay, I've seen Twin Peaks,
I've seen some movies, I knowwhat's up.
And it was so interesting to see.
For me to see a G rated moviecompletely consistent with his style,
(05:52):
with his concerns about what'swoven in the fabric of America, with
his concerns about how wetreat and interact with each other.
So it really was like, oh,wow, none of it is window dressing.
It's all authentic.
This isn't.
Maybe no one's getting shot orwhatever in this one, but it's all
part of the same work and it'sso good for listeners.
(06:13):
That movie is now streaming onDisney, I think.
Is it still on Disney?
It is very, very good.
When people have asked in thelast few days, what's a good entry
point?
I always say Mulholland reallyis a.
Is a strong one.
But I think Straight Story.
Straight Story is like, it hasall of his.
(06:33):
Like, it almost watches likeTerence Malik had an editing hand
on a David lynch piece.
But it's only 90 minutes, you know.
Yeah.
All of the things happeningunder the surface and Straight Story,
I mean, we could have a wholeepisode about that movie.
I can talk just like the soundand the, the camera work.
(06:54):
It almost feels like there'sheart, but also terror.
I get it, David.
I get it.
David Lynch.
There's tremendous violenceand dark and upsetting things on
the corners of, of the whole story.
Well, it is streaming.
If we ever, if we ever haverun out of topics, you know, that's
certainly something we could do.
If you guys don't mind mefurther kind of quoting you on these
(07:16):
ideas, you're saying.
I pulled up my phone because Ithought y'all said it so well the
other day yesterday that Adamnoted that people tend to get defensive,
or they can get defensive.
Yeah.
Because they think they'remissing something about lynch and
they may even turn their noseup at him.
But Adam further Explains that.
No, that's it.
(07:36):
That's let go.
And to that, I would say ifsomebody says, I didn't get it.
Did you watch it?
Yeah, I watched all of it.
Then you got it.
Yep.
Adam said that people will sayI'm not smart enough for this.
But yesterday Adam said,that's assuming everything can be
figured out.
And I love that notion.
I can't figure out everything.
(07:59):
And that's a good, comfortableposition to have.
It's just the human situation, really.
And Donovan, you added thatsmarts won't get you there while
the whole thing remainsincredibly smart.
And I love that too, about Lynch.
I think he.
He pulls that off partiallybecause, again, going back to the
(08:20):
idea of.
Of human goodness and empathyand all of these things, like you're.
You're supposed to intuit alot of the most important parts of
these movies, shows, whatever.
I agree with that.
It's a feeling, you know?
Right.
It's not just an intellectual exercise.
How did it make you feel?
I love that he, with thereturn in the Internet age where
(08:40):
we were so obsessed withpicking stuff apart, made something
that like, kind of can't befigured out.
Like, you can kind of see things.
But he deliberately made it sothe pieces don't all connect.
And if you want to go theother direction and watch, you know,
five or six YouTube videosabout it, that's fun too, in a way.
Yeah, you can do that.
Like, please do.
Ultimately, you know,ultimately exists to be experienced
more than anything else.
(09:02):
One thing that may not bequite true, and you guys correct
me if you can, twin peaks in1990 seem like the beginning of speculative
TV culture that's now in everycorner of the Internet.
Like back then you had tosubscribe to underground magazines.
I wonder though, if there wasa serialized TV show that garnered
that much guesswork beforethat, that much.
(09:24):
That level when they werewondering who shot Junior.
Yeah, but that wasn't quitethe same, but.
I'm kidding.
No, you're right.
No, I remember it too.
And it was a summer of longdiscussions between my parents and
their friends.
I can recall that quite well.
But to this level, where thereis some sort of other world, maybe
(09:48):
there's a murder.
What is the dream stuff?
Who is Bob if he is the murderer?
And it's just a lot more.
The level got thicker.
The levels.
I mean, it's even joked aboutin the Simpsons multiple times.
Multiple times.
Yeah.
I worry.
Like most things in Netflixengine that is 2017 short film.
(10:09):
What did Jack do?
We'll get lost.
We need the screen.
I kind of like it.
I love that one.
It's interesting that youbrought up that idea of weekly discussion
and pulling things apartbecause I thought about that with
our other topic today.
Not to like jump on your.
No, no, no, no, no.
I was about to segue into that.
But I, I mean, I thought aboutthe history of shows that have enough
(10:34):
weight and meat on the bone towhere you can really spend time picking
it apart week on week.
And how severance is, isdefinitely one of the stronger entries
in that category in the lastfive, 10 years.
Yeah.
Just remember, guys, we're innon spoiler section.
So speaking of tv, it makesyou think.
Yeah, exactly, Adam.
Here's one of theinvestigative opportunities for us
(10:56):
all.
It's finally back.
Severance from Apple TV plusfelt like it gained a lot of popularity
after it finished airing itsfirst season's episodes or right
around the end of the first season.
And maybe that's becausepeople like to wait until the entire
season is available.
And I get that.
Wonderful.
(11:16):
Severance is complex, fascinating.
It's weekly.
I love that.
Y'all know it's created by DanErickson and directed mostly by Ben
Stiller and another guy namedAl McArdle.
He's an Irishman.
I so I probably butchered hisfirst name.
It's sorry.
It stars Adam Scott as aworker in an odd office for a company
(11:37):
named Lumen where he and histhree colleagues have been severed.
That is a procedure where theyaffect your mind and you only know
what happens at work.
And then once you go in theelevator and rise up the elevator,
it turns back into you in theoutside world.
Innies and Audis as they're known.
(11:59):
You know that even from likethe first episode.
Again, we're not spoilinganything, so don't fear.
The show also stars JohnTurturro, Zach Cherry and Britt Lauer
as Mark's three co workers.
Patricia Arquette is his bossas well as his odd neighbor.
We won't do spoilers here, butperhaps, maybe, let's see, let's
(12:19):
kind of figure out where we'regoing to spoil maybe pretty much
anything in the in the firstseasons up for grabs right here for
anyone listening because it isa spoiler filled show and I understand
how that works for listeners.
If you haven't watched all thefirst season, you may want to catch
up and then once the breakends, we will talk about this first
(12:40):
episode of season two.
So I have concerns with thefirst episode back and I don't withhold
the specific examples, butit's kind of a reflection on the
show as a whole anyway.
It's just a question of can ithandle the amount of mystery or questions
that it wants to solve andpose it lean.
That's exactly the way I feltwatching it.
I'm a little worried it leansinto being a show for Reddit.
(13:04):
I've never been one for apiece of TV that requires going elsewhere
for the full picture, thoughI've been a huge fan of art that
gives me the full picture andI can go elsewhere and have some
more fun with it that I do love.
So there's a difference in mymind, but nothing that's like mandatory.
I gotta go find this.
Anyway, my answer to thoseconcerns is that it, it satisfies
(13:27):
me enough with real humanthemes to avoid trappings of is it
gonna answer this question?
Yeah, I agree with that.
And I think I even read aninterview that they did with Erickson,
did with Variety, I thinkwhere the interview straight up asked
do you ever feel in danger ofturning your show into Lost?
(13:48):
I'm glad you brought that.
And I think maybe they're natural.
You talked about how it pickedup fans.
I think there's a lot of showsout there now with great premises
that don't always deliver.
Yeah.
On down the Line and the waymaybe word gets out, even if you're
not spoiling it, that, hey,the weighty themes that they bring
(14:08):
up are handled in asatisfactory way through season one.
Even things that are kind oftough to articulate, like why is
this so compelling?
Feel really compelling whenthey're on the screen.
Some of that we'll get intowith episode one of season two.
But it makes sense that it'spicked up steam.
I do always wonder, is thisshow massive in the way that I think
(14:30):
some bands are massive, yetthey still play like club sized rooms?
You know what I mean?
Like, like who?
All of my, all of my friendswatch this show.
Yeah.
But is that reflective of thepopulation at large?
So.
But I think it's pretty popular.
I do think it's a reallypopular show.
I mean doing the viralmarketing thing at Grand Central
(14:51):
in New York a few days ago, Imean, Ben Stiller is a huge name.
All these things.
It's, it's a big show.
But I do think if you're onthe outside looking in, do I want
to get involved in this?
I think, yeah, I think it's worthwhile.
It's worth the energy.
Shout out to my buddy Hank.
He messaged me three or fourweeks ago and said that Reddit is
(15:14):
ablaze with this show, Severance.
Should I watch it?
And I said, oh, yeah, forsure, man.
It's good.
They've really.
They've broken it down to athe nth degree on there.
Feels like a good time to jumpinto only one first season.
As a whole, I'd say pretty good.
You're not gonna be madwatching it, you know, it's not like
you got five seasons ofresearch to do.
(15:35):
If you're interested, I willsay that since Lost has been brought
up, many writers, magazinewriters have compared it to Lost.
I hate Lost to this.
To this day, I'll say itcorrupted television to a degree.
Does Severance pose to mequestions it can't answer or doesn't
(15:56):
want to answer?
Well, that's yet to be seen.
But what separates it fromLost and other shows that came in
that mold is that Severance'sthemes feel purposeful, whereas Lost
and its themes were added inpost production.
Oh, it's about religion.
When you know good and wellthat's tacked on because they had
to have an answer of some kind.
(16:17):
I say post production, butnear pro.
Post production, near the end.
That's a great point, Blaine,because I think that, like, Lost
would have certainly been adifferent show, at least in our brains
and minds, if it hadn't beenchanged and also marketed as, like,
oh, there's going to be an answer.
You're going to find out themystery, as, as opposed to, like,
I don't know, a show that's,like, we don't really know what happens
(16:38):
when we die or something like that.
And I think that, like,Severance's premise is good enough.
Pretty much all of us workthat, like, there's, you know, it's.
It's like there is that otherelement of, like, oh, I see, like,
a reflection of, like, a kindof funhouse world of my own here.
And I think that is notsomething that needs an answer.
(16:58):
It just is.
So it's already kind of, like,satisfying to see the setting and
then if, you know, I hope thatthey leave us open to a little mystery
and they don't get too Lost.
But I think just the premiseon its own is satisfying in the same
way that maybe with Lost, ifit would have been like, okay, we
just have a really goodepisode about them surviving in the
(17:18):
jungle or whatever, as opposedto gotta answer a question, gotta
answer a question, gottaanswer a question.
Or pose a question is probably their.
Their fault.
Yeah, that's.
That's a good point.
The other thing that I thinkSeverance did that was really clever.
Was run down all of the waysthat we would have naturally reacted
to that situation.
Yeah.
Like, they try to just walk out.
(17:39):
Right.
Like they.
They do all of the things.
It's almost like a Survivorkind of movie where they need to
show you, no, you really arewell and truly screwed.
You know, like, you're in atightly controlled world.
And I.
I think all of that has set itup for success in seasons two.
(18:00):
And they're already talkingabout three.
Yeah.
One of the things they said inthat interview that I.
I thought was an interestingway of putting this if you're a showrunner,
is the writer's room.
They use the phrase thewriters room.
Had a lot of blue sky inseason two.
And what they did duringseason two has made it to where season
three should be easier to put together.
(18:23):
Meaning that they have createda world of rules for themselves.
Like the story is on tracks.
They kind of had to invent thetracks through season one and two.
Yeah.
And now it'll pick up steam asthe season goes along.
Yeah.
The first season was fine onanswering most of what it posed,
other than the big things thatthey wanted to wait on for season
(18:44):
two.
We'll see.
It does keep you guessing in agood way.
It's well acted.
The story's layered enough formy taste.
It develops a sense of mysteryand dread.
Really?
Yeah.
And I was gonna say it's like.
It's eerie.
It is eerie.
You know, I love that.
It's like taking to theextreme, like the person you are
(19:06):
is alienated from laborbecause you're literally two different
things when you work for the company.
You are everything for thecompany, and you're.
You're kind of being heldhostage by your own self.
Right.
Exactly.
And that is interesting enoughto keep it going, I think.
Oh, yeah.
There's an element, too, ofwhen you're watching the Innies,
the in universe stuff that,you know, they're underground in
(19:31):
this world without news,without weather, without, like, basic
troubles every day.
And you could see how there'sa bit of a escapist, like, oh, I
can just go there and not dealwith the world, make money, come
up again and live my life likethat in a way that feels almost like
(19:52):
cocoon like, or womb like.
And they.
Even through season one, a lotof the logic that they use to keep
them in line is pretty childlike.
Right.
Like, they kind of cheat themor treat them as naive children.
Obviously, season one ends.
They realize they have tomaybe adjust that strategy.
But I don't know the setup is.
(20:12):
It's enough to make you.
That's kind of what I wasgetting at with things that almost
feel trite when you say themout loud are given room to feel more
profound on screen.
You know, like Donovan wassaying, like, this is something we
all deal with.
Is this a decision that youwould make given the opportunity?
They do treat them childlike.
And you wonder how much oftheir mind is childlike because it's
(20:34):
been severed from the outside world.
Isn't there a moment where inthe first season where heli has come
in as a newcomer and they askher a bunch of questions, she only
gets the one about Delaware.
Right?
Like, is Delaware a state or something?
Right.
There's a.
I got on YouTube just to watchsome recaps and you have to.
Yeah, yeah, just thepreviously on did an okay job from
(20:57):
Apple.
But yeah, it was still a lot.
But they just pointed outthat, you know, they're trying to
feel out how effective the theimplant is because obviously you
need to be able.
You need to remember that youlearned how to speak a language,
but you don't need to rememberyour childhood.
You know, like, how do youseparate those two things?
(21:18):
It's a top tier exemplar ofhow science fiction can hold up a
mirror to truths of our world.
And this one gets close enoughto the real world that maybe it isn't
even full blown science fiction.
Not sure what the genre here is.
Thriller even.
Call it science fiction.
I mean thriller for sure.
Yeah.
But a thrilling.
I think the premise is stillscience fiction, which is something
(21:40):
we could fight about all dayand it doesn't matter.
No, it doesn't matter.
Let's take a break.
What you'll do is you'll hearfrom some of our podcasting friends
and on the other side, it'sspoiler time.
Seti Bimco R to the Revenge.
We create revenge sequels formovies that never had them.
Movies like Creature fromBlack Page, Hercules.
In New York, the Choppers,White Christmas.
(22:02):
Psychotronic Man Critters,Return to Pocket Killer Clowns from
Outer Space, Road Tour, Macand Me, Crypt of Dark Secrets.
George, remember the time wemade a revenge sequel to Equinox?
You had to go to the hospital.
Yeah.
Seti Pimco Part 2 the RevengeEvery Wednesday.
Any place you listen to podcasts.
(22:24):
Well, let's try our damnedestto unpack some of severance if we
remember the first season as a whole.
I think I do, though I reallyhat this is a funny statement to
make.
I really had forgotten BigChunks of the first season, like
the whole Keir Egan plot idea,I totally had forgotten.
(22:45):
But what I did is I pulled upthe last two episodes of the first
season and kind of skimmed them.
Fast forward through themreally quickly.
And then I watched, I think,like a 10 minute YouTube thing, and
it solidified the.
The one thing that completelydeleted from my brain.
I don't know how, I don't know why.
When I finished watching thatfirst episode and it said directed
(23:06):
by Ben Stiller, I was like,oh, yeah, that's.
I kind of remember that.
Like, just completely forgot.
Yeah, it is weird that he's involved.
Not weird, but just like, he's good.
He did a good job.
I thought.
He just.
He's very, very good.
He directed and maybe evenwrote all of Escape from Dannemora
on Showtime.
And I love.
Oh, yeah, that's right.
(23:27):
I forgot about that earlier.
I said, I lay my worries torest with the show because I think
it's intelligently examiningthemes, big ideas, and it's quite
aware that that's what it'sdoing and wants to do.
But one of my favorites thatit tries to unpack is that of identity
and Persona.
(23:48):
It's not one of those themes.
You see a lot of TV looking atmovies more so.
And I'm often brought back tothe novel To Kill a Mockingbird,
which could be one of thefirst examples of code switching
in pop culture.
And that's when Scout's blownaway by Calpurnia speaking differently
at church versus anywhere else.
(24:10):
And all that does.
I know that's code switching alittle different there, but it does
remind me that we have.
I've got a work Persona, ahome Persona, friend and family,
and so on and so on.
I mean, as many people as youcan interact with is that's how many
Personas you could possibly have.
Do we have podcast identities?
Yeah, I'm the rowdy one.
(24:31):
Oh, chill.
Chill out now.
No, but just the idea ofPersonas, I just love that.
I often talk to people aboutthat at.
At school, students.
I tell them, you know, youhave a Persona, and that's part of
your argument that you need to make.
I like it.
I think you're exactly right,Blaine, because it kind of like,
(24:52):
it kind of starts to ask thequestion, who.
Who are you?
And, like, I think as far asthe show has gone, at least there's
sort of a.
Like, it's not completelyoutside of the realm of possibility
that the answer will be like,there is no self.
There's the you at work.
There's the you at home,there's not necessarily like a consistent
unified personality.
(25:13):
Or maybe there is a self and something.
What's his name as Buddha.
It's like Buddhist.
Okay.
Alan Watts, that kind of thing.
I mean, we're right back toDavid lynch and old Harry Dean having
a conversation.
Man, I just was watching thisepisode because my pump was so primed,
and I was like, how cool wouldit have been if they'd gotten David
(25:35):
lynch in here for an episodeor two?
See, I don't think that thisshow works with lynch, at least in
the same way, because thereare rules in severance, and I don't
think that he observes thoseat all.
I just think like, not.
Not him directing, but him aslike a character I could see.
Oh, he would have been great, right?
Yeah.
Not directing.
(25:56):
No.
The man could wear the hellout of a suit.
Exactly.
Like as like an executive or something.
Like, he would be so good.
His haircut's all ready forthe kind of vintage look.
Yeah.
Would have been great.
Yeah, that would have been hilarious.
You want to talk about thosesets, all those.
The implementation of colorsin this show.
I love it.
(26:18):
Something about that red ballfor the game of sharing just made
me feel icky.
It made a sound the ball didwhen it hit their hands.
There was so, like, I thoughtabout the way that they introduce
tactile things in this world.
The sound of the keyboards,the sound of things switching on
and off, the ball hittingtheir hands.
(26:39):
It felt like it had weight and substance.
They do such a good job withmaking it feel like laboratory setting
with the like.
Like it's all a maze, right.
Like, like they're the rats inthe maze.
Right.
Like it's all the maze.
And you know, if you've everseen like these experiments they'll
do for rats, right.
Like sometimes you'll have.
They'll see like, oh, are you.
You know, how do they react inthis area?
(27:00):
How do they react in that area?
And it almost kind of feelslike, like you get the green room
to calm you down, you get the red.
And it all feels very sterileand clinical, but in a way that is
like, kind of gross.
Almost like hospital cafeteria food.
Well, in the in universe wayof explaining that away is that,
(27:21):
you know, this.
We're into spoilers now.
Right.
For sure.
So it opens with them sayingthey're five months.
Marcus has been gone for five months.
Yeah.
So you could have, in thattime, you tell Audi, Marcus, whatever's
happening up there, when hefinally comes back, that's plenty
of time to do Reconstructionon things, to change the rooms up,
(27:44):
to change the hallways, all of this.
So that first frantic scene ofhim running around and trying, like
what?
Looking for his co workers.
Is he disoriented?
But to, to him, no time haspassed at all.
He's looking for the wellnessplace to find Gemma.
Right.
And it's not there.
Right.
(28:05):
Which is just so geniusbecause there's an explanation for
it that's plausible, but alsoit's being experienced in this surreal
kind of sci fi way.
I don't know.
That was so clever.
And the, the way that theystayed with the Enies this whole
episode and experience days asthey experienced them.
(28:27):
You know, I just have littlequestions like, what if.
What if your Audi drank toomuch the night before?
I think that all the time.
And I think it's evenmentioned in the first season.
Right.
Like, oh, I must have dranktoo much last night because I'm tired
today.
I love that.
Or like, what if they did aparticularly hard leg workout and
the guy is struggling to walk?
What?
How you're sharing physicalitywith someone that you don't know.
(28:50):
It's so interesting.
But that, that series of themzoning out and then coming to, you
know, like, how do you evenknow when it's four minutes till
five and you're like, allright, I'm gonna knock off.
Yeah.
To them you have to walk downthis hallway that in their world
they're gonna walk directlyback down.
These are the things thatstart when you're watching and you're
(29:12):
like, this feels so profoundin what it's saying, but then you
say it out loud and it's kindof like, it's interesting, but it's
not as you almost have toexperience it in show to get the
full feeling.
There's some point they keepfocusing on the clock and also looking
at watches and stuff.
And I felt the same way, youknow, where it's like you start to
(29:35):
wonder like, what are youcounting down to?
There's, you know, there's nothing.
Why do you care?
Yeah, I think it, I'm probablygonna misuse this, this word.
Something that the.
The in and out and just the inand out and just focusing solely
on them really encouraged atleast me as a viewer to kind of experience
this in like aphenomenological way.
(29:58):
Right.
Where I'm like, really?
Like, what, what is it like toget behind these guys eyes and just
kind of identify very closelywith them?
And I think keeping it up onthe ennis the whole episode also
really helped with that.
You're kind of stuck in there too.
And one of the things thisepisode did was use more close ups,
I think than it ever has.
(30:19):
We had.
Especially in thisenvironment, we.
We have those close up.
You did what you're talking about.
And also just made thecontainment feel worse.
Because those close up also,they weren't just close ups of one
person.
It was a two shot, I guess iswhat you call them.
(30:39):
It's where you would see thelittle bit of the other person they
were talking to right there.
Which in Milchick's case feltlike he is the one that's containing
them well.
And you're also.
That's being used to pull backon season one's expansion of their
(31:01):
universe.
You know, as they go to talkto other departments and they seem
to have some autonomy to runthe halls and find this different,
you know.
And then they wake up, youknow, and they see the outside world
and all of a sudden this is assmall as it's felt since episode
one of season one.
You know, they only go.
They're in their office andthey go to the break room.
And that's pretty much it.
(31:22):
There's some roaming thehalls, but not a lot.
It builds a lot of tensionthat way.
And so did the camera work ofhim running in the hall.
It's like almost CGI kind ofcamera work.
No, I don't think it was.
I may be easily impressed, butI really like that beginning.
Yeah.
For me it set the tone verywell for the rest of the episode.
Bit of silence to build sometension too.
(31:43):
Ms.
Hwang, she was just staring atMark after telling him she's not
his friend.
Yeah.
I really liked how long theystuck on Adam Scott's face there.
Me too.
There's.
And then he says three friends.
Yeah.
Yeah, she's good.
So good.
The young woman they haveplaying Ms.
Wong, I found her manager faceto be like, it's so good.
(32:08):
They have like a kid doingthis because it's like she's.
She's doing such a good likesupervisor face.
But you know, you're 13 orhowever old you are.
That's what in that Varietyinterview they said they read a bunch
of.
Of young people for that role.
But this particular youngactress just had such a camera.
What he said like a corporateface or come something like that.
(32:30):
That was.
Yeah, just.
It's that kind of detached,like I'm smiling but I'm not really
here kind of thing.
In reality, the actor is 18,looks younger.
Worked for me.
Helly kind of has a.
Some silence in that shedoesn't tell what happens to her
(32:51):
on the outside.
She doesn't reveal she's oneof the Egans.
She chooses a lie.
Well, this is the question, right?
Yeah.
Like, is the.
It's either a bit on the noseor it's red herring material that,
like, is that heli or has she been.
That's actually her Audi comein to try to tamp down the.
(33:12):
Yeah.
Revolution or whatever.
Yep.
But there's two reads, right.
Like she's either either thatis the Annie that they've known and
she's withholding thatinformation out of shame.
Uh huh.
You know, or it's the Audi and she's.
They talked about what.
What survives your subconscious.
Like some of her at times, shecould have a shorter fuse than the
(33:35):
others if things didn't go her way.
Like, maybe that's a life ofprivilege coming out subconsciously.
These are YouTubers talkingabout season one.
Thought that was a prettyastute observation.
But does she say that therewas a gardener there at night?
Because she would have livedin a very fancy house where there
were gardeners working on the grounds.
(33:56):
I was wondering that too.
Like, is this just in the backof her head how it should be?
Right.
So either way, it's kind ofincriminating about who she actually
is.
Either she's a bad liar thatcame up with a.
A bad story at that moment, orit's seeping through her.
Her subconscious and it's verymuch like a.
(34:16):
It's a banana.
What could it cost?
Kind of.
Yeah.
I like the.
I'm curious to see where thisone is going to go.
I hope it goes well with Helly.
Just because her, like,visceral hatred for herself, I thought
was one of the best and mostinteresting parts of season one.
And it makes sense, you know,kind of what you just said, Adam,
(34:38):
makes sense.
Right.
If she's someone who's notused to being told what to do, to
be captured, you know,imprisoned essentially by her own
self, must completely drive.
So I'm.
I'm curious.
Like, is it.
Is it shame?
Is it.
Does she not want to reveal it?
Is she.
What's going on?
I.
I think it's interesting and Ihope they play with it.
Well.
She had one of the mosthaunting lines when she.
(35:00):
They videotape her out outsideself telling her, annie, you are
not a human being.
You don't get to make this decision.
Yeah.
Yeah.
You're not whole and completein the same way that I am.
Right.
Yeah.
You can also point to.
She has just A second or twolong of trouble to turn on her computer
and her.
Yep.
And her.
(35:20):
Any shouldn't have justreached and turned it on after the
experience.
Yeah.
Did you guys catch that?
Lumen has brought in thesethree new micro data workers from.
They did so from shutting downoffices because it seems like there's
not enough people that.
That were interested in being severed.
They had to shut those offices down.
It's an interesting read.
(35:41):
Yeah.
And the.
They allude to how many more,you know, in that video that they
show them, they allude to howmany like 200 something spaces worldwide.
Right.
But does that imply that allof them have severed workers?
Or that in first replacementcrew talks about like, you know,
oh, we had animatronic.
(36:04):
What did they call that roomwhere you go to see the house and
the perpetuity room.
They know.
They must.
They're just standing still.
They must be like an older oneor one of the guys had come from
even an even poorer, older facility.
It's just an interesting.
They were just mops for that guy.
Yeah.
What?
His.
His perpetuity room was just mops.
What's going on here?
(36:24):
And his elevator was a rope.
How.
How can that be?
I don't get it.
And he also had a.
They had awarded him the samething that they had given Mark, which
is a picture of your face.
And except his isn't in glass.
It's just carved of wood.
Yeah.
It's just like a rock.
It puts me on edge how theirfaces change in the elevator.
(36:48):
Like their expressions.
It's almost uncanny.
Valley or AI feeling.
It's not.
I don't think.
But it's probably just greatacting, but makes you feel uneasy.
I wouldn't be surprised ifthey jazzed it up a little just with
like some of the camera tricksthey do.
I think.
Adam, I think you said this,but I really did like the choice
to be.
They're in the elevator andyou get half a second of Allie them.
(37:13):
And then I thought Adam Scottdid a great job of this the first
season.
And then the face changes andnow you're the.
And I think that is unsettling.
It is.
Ms.
Huang's actor is actually 18.
Another, by the way, is thatthe voice of the new training video,
Lumen is Listening, is voicedby Keanu Reeves.
(37:34):
Oh, I didn't know.
That's awesome.
I didn't pick it up.
I didn't pick up on that.
It wouldn't surprise me ifthere's some connection to Gemma
and Ms.
Swing.
There's that room.
Remember when they're walkingaround and they see the.
The livestock being cloned orsomething's going on there, and they
say they're not ready.
They showed that in thepreviously on.
(37:55):
Right.
Yes, they did.
Got to be a reason for that.
Do you not find it odd thatthe characters don't usually see
themselves as having another side?
That they're.
It's almost like thesecharacters are very strict about
referencing the Audi and theInnie, as if it's a totally different
person and not themselves.
Like Mark and Helly discussinghis wife.
(38:17):
I think one of them, Mark saysit, it's the same ish person, so
I need to try to find her orI'm the same ish person.
It's weird that they don'tconsider that.
I mean, that's a very probablynatural feeling.
But I do think it's kind ofweird that they don't logically make
the connection that.
No, that's me still.
Well, I think they wereplaying with that in the.
(38:38):
When they're in the.
The first meeting with Ms.
Wong, it's.
And they're staring at each other.
You know, there's that momentof like, I have four new friends
and they just had that stare down.
And we talked about.
You're kind of wondering,like, if she is the clone, maybe
or possibly even like hischild or something like that.
Is there some, like,subconscious thing happening here
(38:59):
that transcends the severance procedure?
But then, like, thatconversation you're talking about
Blaine, between him and Heli,has to be like the most layered conversation
that's happened so far.
If you're reading into it,that Heli is somehow either the Audi
or has been conditioned insome different way than everyone
else.
And obviously they have justmade out and been hilariously.
(39:22):
It's funny that this show canbe comical when it's dealing with
all these funny themes.
Like in the middle of that.
That video, when they showthem kissing, is it Dylan that says
the fuck?
Yeah.
No, this show can be funny.
All good dramas can be funny.
And there's still officepolitics going on.
Yeah.
(39:43):
And then they had another onethat got me was Mark W's calling
him Mr.
Milkshake Shake.
Yeah.
I also enjoyed.
Yeah.
Mark W.
Saying what you like to Miss Wong.
Why.
Why are you a child?
Yeah.
She's like, that's great.
Because of when I was born.
And we were all thinking it.
Why is this a kid?
(40:03):
Speaking of profundity, Irv'sstatement that the last time he was
happy was when he was nottrying to be happy.
Just floored me.
I almost had to reach andpause it and be like what?
Wait, let me think about this.
And then you add that he wasreferring to working and not trying
to be happy.
I'm sure it might make it lessthoughtful, but I don't know.
It struck me.
(40:24):
Milchick's really putting themind games to them.
And I'll tell you this.
I don't believe a word he says.
I would not be surprised ifDylan doesn't even have a wife that
he makes up this.
Gretchen.
I know he's got a kid.
Right?
Because we saw him in thecloset or I think he was in the closet
at his house when he cameawake or whatever.
If people talked about themtreating them like children in the
(40:46):
first one, you're starting tosee maybe more adult levels of manipulation.
Like.
Yeah.
It seems so on the nose tocreate a divisive element with this
crew of four who's caused you problems.
To privilege one with information.
Set them apart and then sendthem back out.
That's just a little crackopening that can turn into something
(41:08):
significant.
That's just good management.
Divide, divide and conquer.
Right there.
Exactly.
Can you.
Can you imagine if they had brought.
If this universe.
If this workplace ran onShogun rules.
Go on.
They'd be, I don't know,they'd be, you know, they'd be convincing
seppuku every other episode.
(41:30):
You know, who wouldn't havehad an uprising if they'd been in
charge.
Right?
Yeah.
But she.
Uh huh.
The adult manipulation ofhaving the corporation swallow up
the rebellion or say we're onyour side.
That's always a way to kill dissent.
Oh for sure.
And it's such a genius thing to.
(41:51):
You know, it immediately mademe think of like being in US History
class as a kid and like youlearn all of these things that are
these celebrated figures allalong that were enemies of the state
when they were alive.
Like even thinking back tolike something that's probably going
to be challenged with civil rights.
Basic things like that.
These were all criminals atone point, you know.
And now they've been absorbedinto a.
(42:13):
You know, made tidy and thusdefanged of any possibility of disruption.
Yeah.
Take a look at whichpoliticians celebrated Martin Luther
King Jr.
S holiday right yesterday.
When it comes to milchick,it's so impressive what Tramel Tillman
can do in making you scared shitless.
And then quite at ease justwithin the same millisecond.
(42:38):
And in the scene with Dylanand the blueprint for the visitation
room, it's simultaneous.
It's like, God damn, this is scary.
But that, you know, of course,that would be nice for any to get
to know.
Oh, okay.
I do have a family, and I getto see them once a week or whatever
they're planning on doing.
I do get the sense that he, atthis point, is not completely motivated
(43:00):
by cruelty.
He's not a sadist, like he says.
I'm here to replace the sadist.
Essentially.
Like, he.
He does seem just like hebelieves in the company and what
they're trying to do anddoesn't want to be cruel, but also
believes in the company morethan he believes in not being cruel.
Huh.
Could be the case with him.
Milkshake.
Milkshake.
(43:21):
Well, there's all this, like,weird pseudo religious kind of stuff
about the company.
Right.
That, like, you.
Yes.
It's not just like, you can bea company man.
You can be a true believer.
Yeah.
And I'm not trying to becruel, but it.
But it makes me think of somesort of weird hybrid of Mormonism
and Scientology.
(43:41):
Yeah.
Scientology.
At least for sure.
Well, I am being cruel to Scientology.
I'm not trying to be too cruelto the.
To the Mormons of our.
Of our society.
Well, it's got to besomething, too, that the.
The company was founded in 1865.
Right.
Yeah.
I think that's maybe whatstrikes me as Brigham Young kind
of thing.
Yeah.
I mean, this might be reallygeneral and humorous, but just thoughts
(44:04):
on having.
Oh, gosh, Ally.
What's her name?
Actress who plays maybe onArrested Development.
She's part of the crew, or atleast was temporarily.
Were y'all excited to see that?
She's probably gonna be a partof the show.
I saw it when she walked wason screen for the first time.
All I could think was, bumpyroad ahead.
(44:26):
I saw some people onlinesaying what a great bait and switch
to.
You know, because they were ina lot of promotional material being
involved, and it's almost likea season two of House of Cards thing.
We're like, well, this mainactress is gone now.
They have to come back.
Right.
Like, people.
Yeah.
Can be hidden in the severedworld and then be found again.
(44:47):
Oh, for sure.
And the Mark W.
Actor is known kind of as acharacter actor.
You would think he probably returns.
And then the award of havingyour face carved in that wood for
the Italian actor, that'sstill in the time for it.
Yeah.
But, yeah, Dylan didn't havetime for it.
He just swept it into hisdrawer, which is.
(45:08):
Which is what we'll do.
We'll sweep everything Into adrawer until what, Friday?
Watch Severance once more.
And can I say one?
One thing that we didn't touchon that I thought was really moving
was Dylan talking to Irving,begging him not to go out.
This episode that was such acentral part of it was you would
have to essentially killyourself on behalf of the Audi.
(45:31):
Like if you leave, you nolonger exist.
But would it feel like that would.
I mean, to me.
I see, that's.
That's an argument.
It's not.
It's not a decision of suicide.
It's like a decision of nonexistence, which.
Yes.
Different.
They would believe it servesthe greater good of their own psyche.
Framing it only in from any'sperspective this episode and having
(45:53):
them confront that decisionfor the first time.
And for one of them to belike, I need you're my friend and
I don't want to lose you.
Like, that's not just like a.
I've really enjoyed workingwith you and I don't want you to
leave.
It's a I'll never see you again.
Yes.
Kind of thing.
Yes.
That was so heavy.
Yeah.
So well done.
I suppose it's me not being asenveloped in the logic of the show,
(46:15):
but I often will think, butyou're not gonna die.
You'll actually free in yourself.
You'll be your Audi, you know.
But they don't know that.
Yeah.
I think it's doing a great.
Asking a really good questionthat is kind of like a feel like
it is a philosophical question.
Right.
Like if I.
It can go into a mattertransporter and my body is instantly
disassembled and reassembledon Mars, am I the same person?
(46:38):
Right.
I have continuity of consciousness.
But did the personality survive?
Same thing for these guys, Right?
Like, what is their personality?
If it's deleted, would it go.
Would it be how much of your memories?
Well, I mean, that's thequestion, Right?
Interesting.
Yeah.
That's why the show is good,is that it tackles these kinds of
things.
It gets you to question, butat the same time provides good characters,
(47:02):
good direction, greatcinematography, good sets.
Yeah, it's.
It's worth our time for sure.
We'll probably return to itnext week.
I don't see why not.
I don't know what the othertopic will be or if we'll have one,
but anyway, you can hear us onTuesday morning.
Most of the time things got hectic.
I accidentally did not get theepisode out until Tuesday afternoon
(47:24):
recently.
But Tuesdays count on us.
Okay.
And if you want to reach outto us by all means do.
We'd love it.
Find us on thealabamatake.
Com.
You can emailthealabamatake@gmail.com if you have
ideas, questions, thoughts,suggestions for Adam and Donovan.
I'm Blaine, and we'll be backinto the world of severance next
week.
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