'Zero Day' Fails, 'The White Lotus' Needs a New Template, and 'Severance' Soars

This week, we begin with a welcome and small request (0:09).

Then it's into the TV discussions. 'Zero Day' on Netflix may look like a thrilling ride with Robert De Niro in the lead with an all-star ensemble, but in the non-spoiler section, we begin with it and why it fails (1:11). Also in the non-spoiler section is the HBO show 'The White Lotus' and how the third season needs to change (8:53).

As we switch into the spoiler section, we detail the second episode of 'The White Lotus' and what it is doing right and wrong (13:09). Lastly, we explain how 'Severance' achieved amazing heights with its most recent episode (36:46).

Find the podcast and more at The Alabama Take.

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Welcome to this episode ofTaking It Down.
I'm the host, Blaine Duncan,and we are the working class TV and
streaming podcast.
And I want to ask you to doone thing.
If you're a returning listenerand you like this podcast, let someone
else know.
If this is your first time tohear us and you get a little something

(00:21):
out of what we do here, let afriend know and spread the word.
So in this, it's our 232ndepisode, we're going to discuss Zero
Day on Netflix, the WhiteLotus on HBO, and Severance on Apple
tv.
Plus all of those will betopics in the first segment where
we don't spoil any part of the shows.

(00:42):
Then, after a 30 second break,we'll get into the details of the
second episode of this seasonof the White Lotus and the seventh
episode of Severance thatrecently aired.
Stick around.
I'm about to get Adam andDonovan to join me directly.

(01:10):
Hey, I'm not pushing for asegment here, guys.
But instead of dissectingsomething alone at the top of the
podcast like I've done a fewtimes before in the past, I've started
bringing you to a show which Iknow you haven't seen that I've watched
or started a few episodes of.
Sometimes I'll try to convinceyou it's worthy of your time.
Today I'll warn you to stay away.
Maybe it's a boon to ouraudience of millions of listeners

(01:33):
too.
It does fit nicely at thebeginning of our podcast each week
where we avoid spoilers.
This week I've got the Netflixseries Zero Day.
It sounds like you cannot miss it.
Let me lay it out for you andyou'd think to yourself, let me pause
the podcast and go Hit play onNetflix stars Robert De Niro as a

(01:53):
former president who neversought a second term, but who's been
tasked by the currentadministration to investigate a serious
and far reaching cyber attackacross the world that halted computers,
cell phones, everything youcan imagine for a minute and warns
it'll happen again.
Okay, well, you're not sold.

(02:13):
Did it disrupt porn blame?
Now that would be an interesting.
Oh my God.
For 60 seconds.
So an eternity.
Not only is De Niro doing tv,but it co stars Lizzy Kaplan, Jesse
Plemons, Bill Camp, one of myfavorites, Connie Britton, Matthew
Modan and Angela Bassett asthe current president.

(02:35):
What an impressive lineup.
I mean, the last time Dairoand Plemons were in something together,
it was the Irishman, right?
Like I should be racing to seethis, right?
Pump it in our.
In our veins.
Right but like Netflix showsoften do, they.
They wrote the check to onedepartment, but they didn't pay shit

(02:56):
for the other departments.
All the money went to De Niroand co here and, and the writers
and directors were obviouslypicked up at high school drama clubs
around the country and askedto volunteer some time to make this,
to make the rest of the show.
It'll look good on a college application.
They just showed a picture ofDe Niro and they were like, can you
make this man happy?

(03:17):
But they made it.
They showed them one fromRaging Bull, which was the trick,
right?
It was not, hey, De niro is,is 81 years old, guys.
You know, I honestly thoughthe was older.
I thought he was young.
Asked me how old he is, Iwould have thought he was older.
I don't mean to be rude to anyof our older listeners, but 80, 81,

(03:39):
that's when that sounds to melike that's old.
Start getting a little old.
I think you just lost asignificant port.
Significant portion of our.
If you'll look in the apple inthe ample statistics that the drop
off at minute 3:57 is right here.
Yeah, it's.
It's 80 years young, Blaine.

(04:00):
We need people with free time here.
They can vote and they canlisten to our podcast.
Zero Day does play like a middor fair to meddling ABC political
thriller.
And that's not a knock againstthose shows.
They're fine if you like them,you love them.
People deservedly love them.
They do what they do.
When you hit play with DeNiro, Plemons, Kaplan Camp in the

(04:21):
same scene, you're expectingthe Wire and not House of Cards Season
12.
One advantage the show has andknows it has in contrast to broadcast
dramas is Netflix isn't afraidof limited tv.
That's how they probably gotthis cast.
And they, you know, broadcastTV does this thing where they want
to try to keep churning outthe same show as long as they can

(04:45):
for ratings and they'll milk acow long past its age.
But these actors are renowned.
It makes you wonder what, whatthey thought they were signing up
for.
They're all doing fairly finework and if not, not really amazing.
There is one interrogationscene that stars De Niro and he.
He brings some complexities.

(05:05):
There's a hint of old De Niro there.
Otherwise it's just not here.
I blame the directing.
I just don't think that theyare trying to give them anything
to chew on.
Three episodes in those zerodays, like the antithesis of a.
Of a severance.
It.
It clings to a big reveal it'shoping will shock viewers.
And it.
And tease you to keep returning.
And it never really answersany of the questions.

(05:28):
I swear to you.
One episode ended with a hugemoment and you're thinking, well,
there's no way they can't justpick right up there in episode.
Whatever that next one.
Well, they.
They managed to never bring itup again.
That.
That sounds like a writing.
Serious writing problem.
It does sound like a writingproblem, but I just think the directors

(05:50):
aren't getting what they canout of this cast either.
Yeah, you know, the.
The.
The primary plot is a.
It's kind of a drag.
It's.
There's some real basicuninspired storylines, a moment of
intrigue here or there.
But here's the heartbreak.
There is an absolutelyfascinating, thrilling, wonderful
show here about an aging andbeloved politician who's trying to

(06:14):
solve a mystery that's overhis head due to changing times.
And why they're not.
Why they're not centering inon that, because that could even
bring the pathos that couldget a tear out of some folks.
It's just like, why aren't youdoing that?
You've got the cast to do that.
You got the actor to do that.
It is funny that the.
The premise is that Robert DeNiro plays an ex president who is

(06:37):
brought in to solve atechnological crisis.
He's to head a department whowill tamp down on kind of a post
9 11.
We need a department to figurethis out.
If you told me that he hadnever sent an email before, yeah,
I would believe you.
I've never read JamesPatterson or that kind of novelist,
but this is what it sounds like.

(06:58):
Feels like.
Like one of those kinds ofairport novels on Netflix.
I feel like you just put thenail in the coffin for me.
I'm out.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you put Grisham in, itwould have just been just.
Yeah, it's basically that.
Cast it out to sea.
I'll finalize one thing thatfrustrates me before I move into
anything else.
Bill Camp has shown up twicein three episodes.

(07:20):
The Bill Camp shown up twicein three episodes.
And he has stated in some formor another, I have something important
that'll reveal it all andshock you to your core.
And then the scene changes andyou're talking, well, okay, I'm old
enough to.
Remember watching for the,like, next week on Lost bit.
And there's always like,someone will be like, this changes

(07:43):
everything.
And then it smash cuts away.
And of course, nothing evercomes with it.
That's what it also feels like.
It makes me think of two things.
One that immediately calls tomind when Mad Men was still on the
air and they had the next weekon and it was always just like Don
going, what?
And like somebody answering aphone saying hello.
Yeah, like just the most vague.
Those were hilarious.

(08:04):
Like John meets a new friend,you know?
Or like you couldn't parse out anything.
Whatever.
You couldn't tell what wasgonna happen.
It also you describing thisshow makes it seem like much more
of a postmodern fever dreamsend up of one of these programs
than it probably actually is.
And I'm just picturing Homersitting there watching Twin Peaks

(08:24):
saying, I have no idea what'sgoing on.
Brilliant.
Now this show wants you to bejust checking in.
Just go to the next one.
And it's just.
You wonder if Netflix came into the writer trim and said, no,
you can't reveal anythingright here.
Do you think the rest oftelevision is angry at severance

(08:45):
for being such a try hard?
Yeah, that's it.
Set the bar too high.
The White Lotus aired itssecond episode of the season three
titled Special Treatments.
Will maintain no spoilerstatus for this episode as of now.
But.
But, gentlemen, after twoepisodes of this third season season,
I can say that improvementsgot to be made in this upcoming third

(09:08):
episode.
Or the White Lotus and Critter might.
Why?
Well, I might have lost themojo this time.
The template needs a littlebreaking somewhere soon.
I have seen other reviewerskind of saying similar things that,
you know, where it's kind oflike, hey, guys, we've been here
before.
Yeah.
And there's not.
I, I don't like anybody this season.

(09:30):
That's true.
And they have Walter Goggins.
Yeah.
Walton Goggin.
I can't recommend this season.
I'll continue to see how itall comes together.
Just see if it changes.
If you're looking for, youknow, surprisingly good tv, the first
two seasons are great, but thecharacters and their interactions
weren't aplenty in those firsttwo seasons.

(09:50):
But they all clicked here.
It's like these people arestarring in different shows or something.
It's most notably Walt and Goggins.
You know, it's just not as captivating.
I think a sign thatsomething's wrong is I woke up Monday
morning after watching theepisode Sunday night, and I thought,
surely I missed something.
And I even went back andskimmed the episode.

(10:11):
Again with the remote.
Just skimmed it.
Nope, same episode.
It is funny that we are, as wesay often, we record on Sunday and
this will come out On Tuesdaywhen episode three is already out
and it's a bit like going backand the social media algorithm is
so non linear now that youwill get served theories from episode

(10:34):
one of season Lotus seasonthree, White Lotus season three.
And you're just like, oh,that's already wrong.
That's wrong.
You know?
Right.
So who knows?
I mean, maybe episode threewill be a real uptick.
Let's cross our fingers.
Yeah.
If so, we'll talk about itsome more next week.
If not, we'll see.
It's on the chopping block.
I mean, what you're saying.

(10:54):
Probably not.
Probably it's walking towardthe chopping block, but it's not.
This is an interesting placefor this conversation.
I think this, this would havebeen going into this year.
I would have assumed we'regoing to talk about every episode
of White Lotus and it'salready in danger of losing that
prestige position here.
The much sought after takingit down.
Must watch.

(11:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Shocking.
You know, they say that movierentals from major streaming companies
go up by as many as three endorsements.
That's three.
Florence, Arab and Connecticut.
Okay.
Yeah, I love that it's all of Connecticut.
We're parsing out Alabama.

(11:35):
I don't know where Duncan lives.
I mean, it's, it's not a bigstate and I do get around.
In our spoiler section, we'llbe detailing the seventh episode
of the enormously popularApple TV series Severance.
That most recent one is titledChicago Bardo.
Might help me withpronouncements there.

(11:56):
I know you got the second word right.
Yeah, well, Bardo, I don'tknow about the first one.
I'm not confident.
As for coverage of that show,there's little will say here that
other than it's so original,it's easy to watch, it's digestible.
You should go see all that'savailable of season two.
If you, if you've seen seasonone, if you haven't seen either season,
surely you can borrowsomeone's password for Apple TV plus

(12:18):
and.
But honestly, if you'rewatching per Apple claiming it's
now its most streaming show,so you're probably watching it with
that, we'll, we'll hear somefrom friends, a podcast suggestion,
and after the break, we'llspoil the White Lotus and Severance
in that order.
If you prefer your sportsanalysis recaps and predictions with

(12:40):
less yelling and less clickbait, then venture to take it on
Sports, one of the podcasts inthe Alabama Take network of podcasts
released each Monday morning.
Taking on sports Details thesports action of the week with a
lean towards Alabama coverageand a redneck hippie vibe.

(13:02):
Find it wherever you prefer tolisten to podcasts.
Yeah, we pick up in the orderwe present from the non spoiler part
of the podcast, which means wehead back to Thailand to the lovely
resort of the Wild Lotusepisodes called special Treatments
because that's what SaxonRatliff believes he deserves.

(13:22):
I'm still.
We're in spoiler, right?
This isn't really a spoiler.
I'm still annoyed at himrifling through all the cupboards
and just clanging pots andpans around while she's on the phone.
That guy drives me nuts.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's perfect example of this guy.
We have a comment this week.
We have a couple comments this week.
I debated where to place it,but spoiler section seems better.

(13:45):
It's from Mr.
Jetta, undisputed longestlistener champion.
He replied on the AlabamaTakes site comment section.
Some of what he says is thatthe head scratching I've done concerning
the show and what is or isn'thappening with its accents.
He said, I'm with you.
With the accents of NorthCarolina family and White Lotus.
He I really, really hate fakeSouthern accents.

(14:07):
It's one of the many reasonsthat make Danny McBride's catalog
in Billy Bob Thornton'sclassic Sling Blade brilliant.
All of the actors are from thesouth except for John Ritter.
Parker Posey seems like she'slaying it on really thick, which
she really shouldn't have todo because we.
Yeah, we detailed last weekshe spent some time in Mississippi.

(14:27):
Husband's played by JasonIsaacs, a liver Liverpoolian.
His accent too is a bit much.
But enough with that gripe.
One consistent feature isyou're gonna shock you, whether it's
Steve Zahn scrotum or thesecreepily incestuous siblings.
Yeah, they.
They're certainly sticking tothe template here.
You know, Jetta, that's a petpeeve for me.

(14:49):
Is it?
Yeah.
I was gonna say I.
I can get over it some.
It's funny that he.
You bring up Danny McBridebecause that's what, like, that's
one of the things that doesmake him so funny when I see him
and stuff is like, it's.
It's a.
It's a completely natural accent.
Yeah, that's what people soundlike that I know.
I love.
Exactly.
I think there is this thingwhere like Hollywood, quote, unquote,
Hollywood, like media folksare like, think that people sound

(15:12):
like William Faulkner still orsomething like that.
It's like, go, go to the south and.
And listen for this accent andthen do it based on that.
Not what you think it shouldsound like.
I will say this.
The last 20 years or so,everyone I've known or met sounded
like Danny McBride.
And before that, everyonesounded like the boy from Sling Blade
because I was in smaller partsof Alabama.

(15:35):
Well, and you saying 20 years is.
You made a great point lastweek, Blaine, that the kids not having
the accent is a good bit of work.
That idea that thegenerational loss of that.
Even though the.
I meant to bring this up last week.
The daughter is played byyoung woman from Montgomery who could
conceivably pull off a bettersouthern accent than the rest of

(15:59):
the fam.
Yeah.
They don't ask them to do that.
Oh, a back to back comment.
I should have just went aheadand said it.
Tim from seti Memco, our buddysaid, glad you're watching the White
Lotus.
Is Parker Posey's southernaccent over the top on purpose?
Is it a symptom of her druggedup self?
And he says, I predict thatMoocs brothers are the people who
robbed the resort.

(16:20):
That's a good prediction.
I think something's up with this.
She's making a deliberatechoice with that accent and it might
be because she's thinking, oh,this lady's constantly on drugs and.
Or pills and this is what Ineed to do.
Which I.
There was a very funny momentand I thought it was the funniest
moment of the most recent episode.
I haven't found it asenjoyable as previous seasons.

(16:42):
But her going to the massagetable and saying, before I do this,
I just gotta relax.
It's like.
Well, I think I even wrotedown the line so I get it.
Right.
But it was so funny that shehad to take a pill before she could
get a massage.
That's the point.
I think I do see what you'resaying about like maybe it's poured

(17:05):
on so thick is like a.
You know, I mean, I think it'seasy to predict that there's a certain
veneer going on with this family.
Yeah.
That both.
Both to people outside thefamily and to.
To each other.
They need to convincethemselves that they're a certain
thing and that having thataccent as thick as it is is part
of that.
Possibly combine that withsome chemical influence.

(17:28):
And maybe that's why we.
We are where we are.
Donovan, you were out last week.
I noted.
And tell me if you noticedthat the.
The father, Tim, his.
He is from England.
I felt as though his accentdropped a couple of times.
To.
And I'm not the kind of personwho hears that and.
But if I notice it,something's up kind of thing.

(17:51):
Liver Liverpool can't compete in.
In the accent game like theIrish can.
Oh, man, they can do it, can't they?
He's doing a fine job.
You can tell he's doing anaccent and it's fine.
It's fine.
But it's.
As opposed to like Parker Posey.
Well, I was gonna say MatthewReese, like some of his work where
like hearing him speak withhis natural accent is genuinely shocking.

(18:15):
It'll jar you because.
Because he's so.
He's so good and so natural.
Yeah.
And that's.
That's kind of the differencefor me.
Let's dig in.
The episode opens with an oddfirst person point of view rising
from the ocean and maybe evenpeering into the Jackalyn's bu.
Bungalow.
Who among us hasn't risen fromthe ocean and peered into a bungalow?

(18:36):
That's got to be something.
If not.
If nothing more than a red herring.
Compared to last week.
I will say this.
Walton Goggins Rick seems more relaxed.
He seems less hostile.
You have to wonder if what heexpresses to release his tension
to the lady who's helping withhim with not meditation, but relaxation.

(18:57):
You have to wonder if some ofthat's true.
Where he talks about his past.
It feels like it could be a ruse.
It's fascinating, you know,and I suppose it's sad.
It's not unusual for the showto have somebody have that kind of
history.
But he does deliver it in a manner.
It's not leaden, but it's notreally melancholy, which is a Goggins

(19:19):
thing, you.
Know, when he also.
I just caught.
Because they're playing itduring the week, you know, and so
on the YouTube TV I saw it wason and clicked on and caught that
scene again and thought for aguy who's completely shut down, he
immediately knows how to speakthe lingo in that encounter.

(19:39):
You know, there's obviouslybeen some.
And I think maybe it's beyondwhat we're just supposed to accept
as this is tv, that thesecharacters are intelligent in the
ways that we need them to beintelligent, to have interesting
conversations.
Sure.
You know, and I don't.
I think that this show is notso lazy as to do that with this.
Like, even though he's kind ofgot this gruff thing going on, he's

(20:03):
still able to talk about in pretty.
Pretty grim terms, but alsopretty thoughtful terms.
So you buy some Buddhist idea.
Well, I buy that he I don'tknow if he's telling the truth, but
he's able to frame it in a waythat goes.
Yeah.
Blow for blow with this womanwho is speaking in this spiritual
way.

(20:23):
I'm sure this show would neverever look at like the difference
between like surface and reality.
That's probably not this show.
That's.
You don't think so?
I'm.
No, I'm kidding.
You caught me off.
I think that's.
I think that's a really good observation.
Yeah, that's a good.
That's really good.
I didn't.
That didn't.

(20:43):
I think you're right there.
That's what you get from asecond watch.
It is telling you something.
Right.
About his knowledge, at least.
Right.
Or the fluidity with which hecan move into different spaces.
Well, and maybe the.
Yeah.
The self awareness.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I still don't know.
Jerry's still out on like whathe's trying to accomplish by being
there.

(21:04):
I know that's kind of one ofthe big.
It's.
It's mysteries.
There's a bit of.
He's a sinister guy.
Some in there you can read it as.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, you can.
I think they're still playingit real close to the vest on.
Is he looking for.
You know, some people thinkthat it's his father is the.
The hotel owner's wife, her husband.

(21:26):
And other folks think that heis possibly a head man.
He's been sent.
So we speculate.
I still don't know.
Yeah, yeah.
Too early.
Yeah.
Too early to tell for sure.
Great things to say beforeepisode three that everyone's going
to watch.
And we've only seen two years.
We're such a.
We're at such the disadvantage with.
With that and.
And by the way, hbo.

(21:46):
We'll take your screeners.
God damn it.
Just send us the link.
Oh, you mean episode threewhere he walks out with the name
badge that says, hi, I'm a hitman.
Yeah, it's right there.
Rick, by the way, speaking ofGoggins, he.
He meets.
He meets Greg slash Gary andthey don't get along too well.
Now, I'll admit, talking aboutthis, maybe I liked it more than

(22:08):
I thought because it's one ofthe better scenes of the past week
where Rick sarcasticallysmiling and saying that he does this
and that too.
What do you do?
This and that.
You know, those two rightthere really played off each other.
Well, yeah.
Rick's gonna be off to Bangkok.
We suppose to a meet up withScott Glenn's Character, the Jim

(22:28):
Hollinger, he's probably notan estranged dad like I initially
thought.
I think it said in this recentepisode that Jim had a recent stroke.
I mean, he may be a hiredmurderer or maybe the guy owes him
money.
I think a brief trip away fromthis island is what this series needs
right now anyway, just tobreak the.

(22:49):
Mold a little bit.
Yeah, something's gotta happen.
As for Mama Ratliff, ParkerPosey's character, she, you know,
Kate comes up to her at thebreakfast table and, hey, remember
me from this weekend?
Baby shower.
And does she not recognize herbecause she's on that many pills,
or is she not like her?
I mean, she greets her likeKate owes her money or some shit.

(23:10):
She's like, yeah, I don't know.
That's another, like, littlemaybe gap in the presentation, Right?
That.
Because at first you think,well, she's so stoned out of her
mind, she doesn't know what'sgoing on.
But then what she says is what?
We were together 10 years ago.
What do I care about, like,being friendly to this person?

(23:31):
Which kind of is like.
There's a way to read it where it's.
You see all interactions inthat social strata as, like, transactional,
and there's nothing left toget out of this.
Yep.
Yeah, yeah.
Like, why should I be, like,friendly and cute with you when our
worlds don't really overlap?
Talking about this makes mewish I was watching Madman.

(23:55):
Anyway, Derby Day, huh?
Interesting that she's on allthese pills and Rick reveals that
his mom OD'd when he was 10.
His dad was murdered beforehe's born.
You know, he's got these.
And he self medicates withweed because his baseline stress
is an eight.
When he said that, I thought,yeah, so is mine.

(24:17):
Baseline is about eight.
The lady who conducts thesestress meetings, I noticed she had
an interest in Goggin'scharacter, and I couldn't gauge what
the level was.
Was it an attraction or was itshe just wants to help?
I did find it fascinating thatthis week he's a lot less distant
and aloof.
And I'm honestly hoping hebumps into Sax and beats the shit

(24:42):
out of him.
That'd be great.
Wouldn't that be nice where it's.
Wouldn't if that's where it's.
You know.
What about a good drowning scene?
Old Saxon, he's chilling.
Are you so angry because themassage didn't have a happy ending?
I mean, you again.
Who among us?
Exactly.
Ye without sin.
If he doesn't get Some sort ofbig shattering comeuppance like Rick

(25:04):
beating the hell out of him.
I fear this season Hughes tooclose to real life for his archetype.
Yeah, this family is notgetting off on getting off.
This family is souncomfortable to watch on screen
at all times.
And I think the show, youknow, we knew coming in, this is
an ensemble thing.

(25:24):
There's going to be multipleparties and storylines going.
So it's not like they inventedthis for this family.
But you get the sense thatRick would also watch their scenes
on TV with us and find itextremely odd.
Yeah.
You know what I mean?
Like, we're not asked toaccept that.
Like, some families are wacky,you know, like.
Nope, they're.
They're freaking weird.

(25:46):
It's.
That younger brother is goingto be the one who will explode with
a.
With a thousand secrets.
Right.
Something.
His sister, the.
The middle child, Piper, she'sa little paint by numbers.
And.
Is that the writing sufferingfrom a junior year slump here or,
you know, is she going to havesomething happening, too?

(26:06):
The thing I think that Idislike the most about episode two
was their dad Tim's plot ofthe business being raided by the
feds.
It's just him on the phone again.
Like, I saw that last week.
So what, that he's on thephone and finds out that he's being
raided by the feds?
That could have happened lastweek and would have been just fine.
He talks to a partner orsomething who gets a little bit more

(26:30):
angry or they dissolvepartnerships or something.
See, I liked that.
That they kind of doled out do how.
How bad is the trouble?
You know, and now you findout, you get the sense that he.
Because he's on the oppositeside of the world and should be relaxing,
but is completely powerless todo anything both physically and,

(26:51):
like, can't get anybody on thephone because time difference and
all of that, that he's.
His world is crumbling andhe's not there.
And I mean, it's kind of acliche that you're hiding how bad
a man is hiding how bad asituation is from his family who
thinks that he hung the moon,you know, But I think that's going
to be pretty satisfying towatch and seeing him just get absolutely,

(27:15):
irredeemably furious at somebody.
Yeah.
You know, I mean, heencourages someone to kill themselves.
It's like, this is.
Yeah, he does.
Intense.
It reminds me of the plot linewith the three friends.
It's.
That one's a little more thesame as well.
Anytime there's an absenteefriend the other two berate them

(27:36):
on some level.
And it's just, you know, theydid that last week.
I think I get to just.
We could move them intosomething else.
Well, now we're into oddjealousies about how their wellness,
whatever rating went.
That actually seems verybelievable to me.
Like, having met people, I'mlike, there's somebody out there

(27:58):
right now getting mad aboutthis somewhere in the world.
Oh, yeah?
Yeah.
What do you guys think about the.
The theory that Lori CarrieCoons character is Portia from last
season's mom?
Be an interesting connectionin a show.
That always wants to makethese connections.
Yeah.

(28:19):
Would a mother go to anotherresort in a chain where her daughter
was almost murdered?
By what?
What were they?
The.
The gay mafia?
I haven't seen that one, norhave I considered it.
I'd have to think about that some.
There's a few evidence points.
Like they.
They talk about her daughter,such a cool young woman, and blah,

(28:42):
blah, blah.
Huh.
Something to think about.
The jewelry store on theisland, the break in there, that
snake bracelet's gonna come back.
The camera really wanted us tonotice the snake bracelet, right?
Or I guess it was a bracelet.
Something to keep an eye outfor too.
Do you think Rick is gonna usethat to kill?
I hope he chokes sacks with it.

(29:03):
Yes.
The manager, Fabian, puts outsuch a weird vibe.
What the fuck is that actortrying to tell us?
I have no idea what the hell'sgoing on.
Anytime he pops up on screen,I'm thinking, what am I supposed
to take away from him?
Do you get the sense thatsomeone like.
I don't know the actor's nameoff the top of my head, but someone

(29:23):
like, right.
Every scene that he has, rightbefore he.
Someone's whispered in hisear, just go out there and have fun
with it.
And that's what he chose to do.
So I'm wondering what the hellthe director's telling the actor
who plays Fabian to do.
Just go out there and befucking weird.

(29:44):
Have fun with it.
Convey no real thing to the audience.
Okay, go do that.
Belinda does spot Greg, andshe does recognize him, but she doesn't.
And she plays this perfectlybecause this is where you convey
to the audience exactly whatthey need to know.
Because she says, her facesays, wait a minute, I know that

(30:06):
guy from somewhere.
She doesn't play some camp.
Yeah, I do that every day.
And man, what a great little expression.
That was good, though.
So, yeah, what I was saying ismost of these interactions, the dynamics
do not grab me.
I hope they improve.
I Think we need to mix thepots more though.
One possibility forenhancement is to having them, you
know, interact.

(30:27):
Maybe just have Rick blow somemore smoke on Tim.
Anyway, that family can be annoyed.
Yes, I welcome it.
Even the youngest one whoseems innocent and, and only kind
of creepy in his innocence.
Lachlan or whatever his name is.
Next season, my Wyatt thecreator has to go for the throat

(30:48):
and make Leon Musk a WhiteLotus visitor.
He's probably just an investor.
He needs to visit the WhiteLotus in hell.
That one that's down there,they probably.
Do have a chain there, right?
Yeah, they do everything in hell.
Yeah, there's one in ArabAlabama you should come by and see.
I'll wrap our talk with this.

(31:10):
And it might honestly took acouple minutes to.
To wind down.
Adam, you once criticized orjust noted that shrinking the characters
there just.
You could just smell them intheir houses.
Yeah.
This season of the White Lotusis a lot like if that crew from Shrinking
weren't funny, weren'tinteresting enough, and were hateful,

(31:33):
and they had no self awarenessand they went to Thailand for no
good reason.
And I mean the no good reasonis a knock against some of this variety
and, and set up this season.
I don't, I don't think theserich have an idea what they're.
What they're doing in thatforeign country beyond spending their
barely earned money.
You know, and I'm not too soldthat the riders and why know why

(31:54):
they want them there.
I'm talking about Thailand specifically.
Why not?
It's more than just like why not?
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's like a, like easy exoticism.
Right?
That.
Yeah, but I don't think youneed more than that.
That's.
It's just an interesting, like why.
What's the difference in goingthere in Hawaii?
Right.
I mean, the answer is a longerplane flight.

(32:16):
And you said you went to adifferent country, which is like
part of the current monkeysand monkeys.
Part of.
Part of the currency of ourcurrent social media world is travel.
You know, that's like a status symbol.
And so you're one upping.
If your friend went to theWhite Lotus in Hawaii, you go, well,
I went to the one in Thailand.

(32:37):
You know, I mean, I don'tthink you really have to look any
more into it than that.
And it's also a set of peoplewho are regularly.
I mean, I think like with Rickespecially like, you don't really
see them as being basedanywhere, you know, so like ending
up in Thailand is.
It's just part of aglobetrotting existence.
Hey, that might be the problem.

(32:58):
Am apologies to listeners whodisagree, but I think that Walton
Goggins may be such a.
More.
Such a better actor, moreinteresting on the screen than anyone
else on this show.
So you just.
I just want to know everythingabout his character, and I don't
care that much about the threerich ladies, and I don't care that

(33:20):
much about the.
I.
Well, I kind of do care aboutthe family.
Just.
I want to know their secrets,but, you know, do I care about them?
No, I want to know their secrets.
But you can tell me whetherthey're alive or dead.
Rick, like, who is this guy?
What's he doing, you know,does he have a heart under that tough
exterior?

(33:40):
Why is his girlfriend with him?
I mean, I'm rooting for.
For Lori or Carrie's character.
Well, Carrie Coon can be.
Yeah, she can definitely holdher own.
Don't give me.
Yes.
Don't get me wrong.
But I guess just Goggins hasthe star power, dare I say, you know,
when he's on screen, youwonder maybe they needed a little
bit better cast or two here or there.

(34:00):
Just here or there.
I mean, he's definitely got,like, the charisma, you know, where
you're like, I'm interested.
You know, it's not just whatyou say, it's how you say it.
Right?
Yes.
It's like, okay, I'm intriguedby this person in a way.
I enjoy Amy Lou Wood playing his.
His girlfriend as kind of likea foil to his.

(34:21):
I mean, it's been kind of pat.
Right.
So far.
Cliche that she's this youngerwoman dating an older man who has
this adventurous spirit and iskind of goading him into, you know,
conversation with the otherold man at the table in that one
scene, or kind of to have him.
Yeah, yeah.
But she's interesting on herown, too, I think.
And it'll.

(34:42):
I don't know.
I like her accent and everything.
You're given to understandthat she is not, like, say, Piper.
Piper is the name of the.
The daughter.
Right.
In the family.
That they may be approximatelythe same age, but one was brought
up to expect to stay placeslike this.
And this is a bit more exotic for.
For Chelsea, for Rick's girlfriend.

(35:05):
Yeah.
It's the type of show wherethe setting should matter to probably
a large degree.
And I just hadn't seen thatplay out yet.
But I think I get what you'resaying about that, Adam.
And.
And I think the other thing isjust that maybe I would have cast
it Just a little differently.
I think it's suffering too.
That season one, it was.
We were aware that it was madeduring the pandemic and it's like

(35:27):
a clever way to get aroundsome of the restrictions.
Kind of a new twist on an old idea.
Season two, you have nods toItalian cinema and maybe a bit more
star power and.
Yeah, and now it's.
Yeah, I see what you're saying.
For sure.
I brought it up last week.
I'll just say it one more time.
Aubrey Plaza and Theo Jameswere just sizzling on screen and

(35:52):
even their co stars with them,each one of their respective wife
and husband, while not wellknown actors, were still easy to
watch and interesting.
So.
Well.
And Jennifer Coolidge wasregularly taking over the Internet
with her high meme ability, so.
That's true.

(36:13):
Okay, well, we'll see.
Well, you know, it's a.
I don't.
It's not on the chopping blockper se, but because I do think we
probably need to hash out ifthe third episode rises to my expectations.
This has been the most we'renot mad, we're just a little disappointed
talk we've ever had about.
Yeah, it is an episode of tv.
On this program.
There's a New Yorker piece andI can't name the author who.

(36:36):
Who kind of agrees with me.
I didn't read the whole thing.
I did.
See, I read the lead a littlebit more.
But anyway, last time.
It's the time of the week toput our 2 cents in on the episode
of Severance we recently watched.
This is the seventh one.
If you'd make one critique ofthis season of Severance thus far,

(36:57):
it'd be hard to find anything glaring.
But one component is that itstill hadn't told us why Mark loves
Gemma.
Now, logically, I get it.
Losing a husband, wife, anyfamily member sounds horrific.
But as Ms.
Casey, Gemma was robotic,affectless, and kind of a plot point

(37:19):
a little bit.
The writers needed to humanize Gemma.
Critique one thing.
If you told me Blaine,critique one thing about season two,
I would say that they probablyneed to humanize Gemma a little earlier.
This episode maybe should havecome around.
Episode two or three thisseason where it is is fine.
It's quite fine.
We're about to fight, I can tell.

(37:40):
Yeah, I just said that theycould have done this sooner.
It could have been bumped up sooner.
Other than the Markreintegration plot, of course, as
a second or third episode, acold hearted bastards like me would
have been emotionally investedin finding Gemma as a person and
not as an idea.
If we are, we can.

(38:01):
I disagree with you here.
You can disagree.
And again, we're in spoilers.
So whatever you want to say.
Yeah.
Fire away.
My.
My guy.
I think that this was aperfectly placed episode.
Okay.
Because for it's.
It's the tension and release thing.
Right.
So there's.
Not only are you all of asudden getting answers rapidly, you

(38:22):
have to be invested in Markand Heli or Helena.
Until this point in the story,I think like the.
The previous episode where wecommented that even when Audi.
Mark and Helena have thatweird encounter at the Chinese restaurant.
Yes.
There's still a level ofchemistry there.

(38:42):
Yeah, there is.
Yeah.
And I think we're going totalk a lot this week about what sticks
into your subconscious and howyou recognize that in the world.
And that's obviously whatLumen is investigating with Gemma.
But you know, you.
You have to be rooting forMark and Helly to only then have
that completely undercut bybeing reminded, oh, he had this great
love of his life here, let'sshow it to you in full color.

(39:07):
Yeah.
You know, for the like seeingSpring for the first time on the
show.
Oh, yeah.
It's one of my big, big notes.
One of the things that's goingto bring up.
Yeah.
I'm sure we're getting intoall that, but I say all that on the
surface just to stronglydisagree and to say this is a great
tension and release for me.
Yeah.
That you.
It is revealed that here'sthis entire.

(39:28):
The iceberg underneath the.
The waterline.
That makes sense.
I think.
I agree with Adam too.
Just.
And Blaine, I.
I don't think you're wrong,but I think too for.
Especially for our.
Any Mark, it's.
It's more of an idea.
Right?
It is more of an idea.
So that's okay.
And Heli or Helena is the realperson that he's seen and that we've

(39:52):
seen.
And now like Adam said, it'slike, whoa.
All of a sudden you thoughtshe Was just a MacGuffin?
No, actually she's a.
She's a real person.
Yeah.
Well, and you.
You're built to question, youknow, the dead spouse, dead lover,
whatever is frozen in time.
Right.
And there's no imperfectionswith that.
And you only remember the goodand what my life could have been,

(40:15):
blah, blah, blah.
And we're meant to questionthat in a show this good, I think.
But yeah, just.
It was.
It was brilliant.
She's Han Solo frozen in carbonate.
Yeah.
She is in hell, like watching this.
Like I've often said like,these characters are in hell.
But, like, there's the scenewhere she's like, can we just get
a break from, like, the dentist?

(40:35):
And he's like, it's been weekssince you've, like, she's in hell.
Jesus Christ.
Yes.
Deccan Lockman, I think.
Surname, her act, the actor'sname, and she is doing an amazing
job here.
She, as Ms.
Casey, of course, affect list,very robotic.
Always looks kind of the same here.

(40:56):
You see, you feel why Markwould have such an attraction to
her.
She charms the pants off me inthis episode as herself, as her real
self.
I would say it's probably oneof the.
Maybe the best episode of analready really better season than
the first.
I would.
I would agree with that.
I think she had a greatperformance, but I think part.

(41:18):
And I kind of just appreciatedAdam Scott in this because, like,
how good is he at having,like, chemistry with people?
Yeah, he's really good.
Just like across his whole career.
And I feel like I saw that.
Felt that way with him.
Like, he's really good atconnecting with people or feeling
like they have a connection.
Talking about the littlethings that all of these actors have
to do.

(41:39):
You know, we've talked aboutthe subtle facial changes from Heli
to Helena to, you know, tothen going from Mark Adam Scott having
to play invent a man who has,before the fall, so to speak, who's
not been drained of life.
You're right.
You know, he.
People online are commentinglike, Adam Scott is hot in this show,

(42:01):
you know, like, because you'veseen kind of this kind of dope of
a guy in the office and thenthis very dark, depressed man outside
of it.
And so this guy with a sparkis a whole different thing.
And you're right.
The chemistry is through theroof and you immediately believe
the love story, you know, andkind of get swept away in it.

(42:22):
He gets more room to stretchthese long acting legs that I wasn't
even sure he had.
And, you know, in thememories, he's not depressed.
Instead, he's helpful in love.
He's giddy, especially withthe possibility of a baby.
You know, he gets these otherthings to do with Mark that he hadn't
been able to do, that we'veonly kind of heard about.
You're right.

(42:42):
He.
He brings it.
Yeah.
You see a world surrounded with.
With books and ideas andexcitement and possibility and a
social life and all of thesethings that.
When you contrast that withhow small and cold and snowbound
everything has become, it'sjust so dramatic.

(43:04):
It's crucial that.
Yeah.
That there is an outdoors intheir memories.
It's not snowy.
It's got sunshine and flowers.
I thought it was a greatepisode of Show Don't Tell where
like on some level we.
This is not a criticism, butlike at some level we're kind of
told or we understandimplicitly that obvious that the
Mark Post losing his wife isnot the Mark pre moving his life.

(43:27):
But we don't really.
We just kind of like from hissister and from other people.
And then we got the whole.
A whole Show Don't Tell doinga fantastic job of showing, like,
what.
What is this guy like lost?
Like, what's missing from this guy.
Those scenes of Mark and herfrom Memories had that nice film
crane you'd see in movies fromthe 70s.

(43:49):
Such a beautiful aesthetic to apply.
Sort of.
This is going to sound like areally weird thing, but it sort of
reminds.
Do you know the director,Samuel Fuller?
He did.
He did Big Red One.
He did I Shot Jessie J.
Anyway, he has a movie calledShot Corridor where a guy goes into
a mental hospital and pretendsto be a mental patient so that he

(44:12):
can.
He's a.
He's a journalist.
Right.
So he's gonna write about the hospital.
But the movie's in black and white.
But there's a bit where hebreaks in with his own.
Like, I think it's 8millimeter home movies in color right
in the middle.
And it felt exactly like that.
Yeah.
The.
Like grainy color.
Yeah.
I don't know if there was.
It's probably a common enoughthing, but that's instantly what

(44:34):
I thought of.
Well, it was shock.
That's funny because you bringup a director, there is an office
memory between the two.
It's kind of in the middle ofthe episode.
And it harkens maybepurposefully to David Fincher style
of directing, particularlyPanic Room and Fight Club.
Yeah.
And those are both.

(44:54):
Well, that's a movie aboutbeing trapped and then a movie about
two selves in the same body, respectively.
It's just funny that they useda pretty blatant David Fincher style
of moving the camera throughsomething really small.
It's like two wires or something.
Yeah.
Which apparently was apractical effect.

(45:15):
Cool.
Wild.
They're doing some crazy.
I was just the behind thescenes stuff.
It's fun, too.
Shared here and other thingsthat I've read.
It is really interesting tosee what they're doing.
We get the scene with Drummond.
We know him as Iceland fromsomebody somewhere.
I guess we could start callinghim by his character name here.

(45:35):
He's hovering over what couldbe construed as a microdata refining
for Mark and his crew, too.
Or.
Or just Mark.
But I suppose they're onlywatching the progress, though that
does seem like overkill,because Milch and Ms.
Huang would do that.
Well, they're.

(45:56):
To me, they're, like,overseeing the actual work, whereas
Milchek is, like, managing people.
Okay.
Yeah.
Okay.
That would make.
He's kind of like the floor boss.
The floor copy.
You know, he's only dealingwith the people that are dealing
with a bigger idea.
Okay.
And that.
It was such a simple conceptto have the reverse camera.

(46:17):
You know, like, the idea of, like.
It's almost like you'rewatching a crime procedural and they
bring the guy in for thequestioning or something, and you
get to it.
But to have the computermonitors be.
That was such a.
Yeah, it's nice.
A clever invasion of, like,there is no privacy.
It kind of reminded me of, youknow, like in 1984, there's always
a party man watching you fromyour TV screen or whatever.

(46:40):
Right.
You know, there's just.
When you think you are mostalone, you're in fact, being intently
observed.
Now.
1984, written by George Orwell.
You might not have known.
I think Iceland had the bestline delivery of this episode, too.
When he's like, why are youwearing that stupid sweater?
That was great.
That's so good.
Turns out it's for absolutelyhorrifying reasons.

(47:05):
I.
My favorite.
And I may have wished forsomeone too.
High five.
In the moment when Gemma, whospeaks for us all, demands, can you
please talk like a normal person?
I was like, me.
Yeah, that was really good.
And then he immediately says,dream sweet instead of sweet dreams.
Well, she gets thisdisregarded request.

(47:25):
She.
She requests something of thatdoctor who's so full of the Lumen
lingo.
He doesn't give her straightanswers like everyone does.
And.
And as a worker there, youwould have to grow sick of it.
Even as an innie, it seemslike an innie who's accepting of
that.
It seems at some point you'dbe like, although she's not her enie,

(47:45):
she's.
She's Gemma down there, whichis scary as shit.
You know, when.
When she says that, it justmade me think how you're supposed
to admire this person andtheir ability to persevere.
All of this, when they caneven have a sense of normalcy at
that point.
And if you've been locked in,like, a subterranean hellscape and

(48:09):
still think, like, pleasebehave like a normal person.
You know, how do you even know?
I would go insane in three days.
How does this person who'sbeen down there theoretically for
years retain any, like, compass?
You know, like, what is.
What is north?
Why does she ever ask?
I get for story purposes.

(48:30):
But does she know why she'sdown there?
Because that's not an AnyGemma that's there.
It's.
It's her.
It's Gemma.
I thought that wasintentionally left unclear.
Yeah.
And I get why it has to be.
Yeah.
And it seems like there issomething transactional with her
being down there.
Okay.
They haven't come out and said it.

(48:50):
Okay.
It seemed like there was two options.
One is they could get her.
If they wanted a person to bethere, they could get her there without
her understanding, she wouldjust wake up and there she is.
Right.
And even this show is so great.
I know.
I talk about this almost every week.
They introduce questions andthen answer them.

(49:12):
Yeah, that's what we want.
Such a.
Yeah.
Rapidity that, like, it'slike, oh, you could.
We could have had the.
The outdoor excursion as likethe season finale, you know, but
instead, that's the first half.
And with her, it's like.
And they did this with heli inseason one.
It's like, why don't you justgo in that stairwell and run away?
And they explain why that'snot gonna work here.

(49:34):
She does the thing that I, youknow, you want the character you're
rooting for to do.
It's like, take the chair.
Yeah.
Yes.
Hit the guy in the face andget out of there.
Yeah.
And they show why it doesn't work.
So that's one, ready is thatshe's just there.
And two is, I think if you arean eagle eyed observer, you see all
along anytime that a medicalprocess from giving blood all the

(49:57):
way to going to the fertilityclinic where one of those doctors
is there.
Yeah.
Yeah.
All of that is a Lumen thing.
I mean, they could have takenthat blood and immediately had everything
they needed to know about Markand Gemma, which.
Is probably what happened,because when they were giving blood,
it was a Lumen blood driverassociated with Lumen.

(50:17):
And they might have found outwhat they wanted from both of them
and, you know, somehow oranother got Mark to work for them
and what, kidnapped Gemmaafter faking her wreck or whatever.
Probably something like thatseems to have happened.
I think at this point, with itbeing constantly winter outside,

(50:39):
I think we have to startasking, like, what reality is.
The outside world.
Yeah, we do.
And not just the winter, butjust the Completely almost like featurelessness
of the outside world with,like, the cars that are all just
kind of, you know, where it'slike it's deliberately somewhat unreal.
Yeah.
In the midwinter.

(51:01):
And maybe the Mark's memoriesare also merging with dreams in a
way that, you know, thebeautiful day becomes more beautiful
and the love becomes more intense.
And all because you're dealingin nostalgia.
Right.
As much as anything, but.
Cause he is regaining memories.
He's not.
And memories aren't reality.
Nope.

(51:21):
But still, seeing, like wesaid, a spring day, like, it just
felt so much more threedimensional compared to this snowy
nothing.
It does such a good job of,like, symbolically doing something
the show's been interested in, basically.
Like, this one person, Mark,has all of these different sides

(51:43):
to him, as all people do, youknow, just the.
Like the contrast and the light.
I mean, obviously his actingtoo, but, like, the contrast in the
light, I think, just reallyunderscored that.
Where it's like this.
This version of Mark is asvalid as the depressed version of
Mark, who is maybe as valid asthe innie.
We don't know.
You know, I thought.

(52:05):
I thought they did a great job.
So they're doing that on the.
With the memories.
And then immediately settingup after Irving's very weird dinner
party last week where.
Yeah.
They're theorizing with theLutheran minister that maybe there's
multiple selves.
You know, like, if one's kindof been a little shitty, maybe you
just create a differentversion and that version can go to

(52:27):
heaven.
And then a week later.
Love that.
That wrinkle.
A week later, we're shown howmany times they've split Gemma's
soul.
Theoretically.
Yeah.
And are, like, testing her inall these different ways.
And Mark is a bunch ofdifferent versions of himself.
And how are you to be judgedwhich one is the.

(52:49):
Yeah, the.
The real you, so to speak.
Donovan, what you brought up, it.
It gives you faith in thecreators because almost everything's
done with purpose and yougotta admire and love that.
And I'm actually.
Wait, it's from last episode.
But what Adam just brought upwith the minister, I love that they
put it in there just becauseit seem it fit exactly with what

(53:12):
they were doing.
Yeah.
Well, there you go.
You know, I'm actually.
I'm gonna.
I haven't taken time for this,but I'm actually genuinely curious.
Like, I wonder if I can findout, like, were the severing process,
like, would anybody in theworld theologically be like, there's
two souls, or is that Just crazy.
I'm genuinely interested.

(53:33):
Something chilling Adambrought up Eagle eyed viewers would
see one.
One chilling aspect is on oneof the doctor's walls where Jim is
being tested is they have aneye exam and it's the type you would
use for kids too young to knowthe Alphabet.
And if that doesn't send ashiver down your spine, hopefully

(53:54):
they're not testing kids.
It's.
But Harmony Cobell was raisedby the Egans.
That line is just droppedwithout any follow up.
I was like, wait, what?
I got that right, didn't I?
Like, Ms.
Wang also came from a schoollike some sort of like community
school that's trained and shewould have been like the best student

(54:14):
that they sent to intern with Milchick.
Right.
I just figured she was homeschooled.
Don't they talk about somelike community school that she would
have been top of the.
Maybe this is people inferringthings online.
But I will say Rick Hobby thelady who's working with Mark or trying
to get him to Renegade.

(54:34):
She really needs to take intoaccount how untrustworthy and unsafe
she sounds when she talks topeople who don't know as much about
the process as she does.
Just pump the brakes.
Explain a little I saw because this.
Is a collision of twocharacters who care about Mark in
some way but are on oppositeends of understanding what's going

(54:56):
on.
And they both like, she can'tgive too much away to his sister
because what if the sister's compromised?
That's a good point.
Okay, so, but then her, thesister, it's like, well, just why
don't you let her finish whatshe's doing?
But obviously she only caresabout his immediate physical well
being as you would with a sibling.
Loved one.

(55:16):
But that, yeah, thatinteraction did have me a bit like.
Like it's the opposite of the.
The bad guy monologuing andover explaining what they're like,
y'all are on the same team.
Come on, y'all get together.
And yeah, I did love that.
In one of their memories,Gemma, she starts to get some of
these odd cards that resemblethe one that Dylan took from a Lumen

(55:39):
room.
And one of them, it says, ego death.
It's a man fighting himself.
Talk about things donepurposefully and little breadcrumbs.
That's such a.
A good one.
It ended up being a verysofter, more melancholic episode.
A lot of close up of Gemma'seyes to really, you know, convey

(56:00):
that's who we're focused on.
And snippets of certain Memories.
Feeling a lot like how imageswork in your own brain and memories.
I like that.
I thought it was one of thebetter episodes maybe.
Maybe of the entire series.
You know, they're applying forhelp with fertility, and they went
to Lumen.
That's at the top of their paper.
They're filling out Lumens, basically.

(56:21):
This shows Leon Musk with itshands and all parts of the digital
and real world, isn't it?
Okay, just checking.
Yeah.
Big umbrella corporation.
Right.
When you start tracing back,like, who owns everything, you know,
like.
I mean, are there Lumenshopping stores?
Shopping grocery stores?
There are, yeah.
Yeah.
This was a big.

(56:41):
Where he bought the fridge from.
Or the.
The fridge.
The crib from.
This is a big topic onlinethat people realize that the reason
that the.
The.
Was the OD department.
ODP department was making.
They have big 3D printers, andthey're making things, and they don't
really understand why they'reto go downstairs.
All of the things in all ofthe rooms that Jim is encountering

(57:04):
are being made up there.
Yeah.
Because somebody said, whywould you.
Why does Lumen have to make,like, a watering can?
You know, it's like, why don'tthey get it?
So maybe they already owneverything that's at the target,
you know?
Yeah.
The title of Bardo does alludeto or hint at Lumens trying to attempt
some sort of a transition metamorphosis.

(57:26):
And it continues my personaltheory, which others have.
I'm not saying that I don'teven know if I came up with it on
my own.
I think I did that.
They're trying to.
They've saved theconsciousness of Kerrygan into some
sort of body or computer, andthey're trying to put that into a
person or resurrect himsomehow or another.

(57:48):
The prevalent theory online.
You know, Gemma has asked inthis episode, if there were a mudslide,
would you be more afraid of.
What did they say, suffocatingor drowning?
Yeah, drowning.
Was it suffocating or drowning?
Those are the two options.
Yeah.
And she says drowning, right?
Yeah, she says drowning.
Right.
So, yeah, they're theorizingthat possibly the car accident involved

(58:12):
going into a body of water andbeing unable to escape.
Possibly like a cold harborwhere they might simulate this experience.
And now they're.
They're approaching death.
And, like, what traumas do youremember from one?
Yeah.
Like, how much can your bodyimprint, essentially.
Yeah.
So the final one would be.

(58:33):
Yeah, death.
It's curious that Irv is theone connected to that long, dark
hallway with the Elevator thatgets Gemma to the testing floor and
not, I don't know, another character.
Pick another.
And that's Harmony Cobell, whosent her down there Initially, she's

(58:55):
down there because Harmonysaid something's not working.
Her dissatisfaction with Ms.
Casey.
Well, though Irving talkingabout, you know, painting the.
The dark hallway, there's somerather bleak theories floating around
that possibly he was trappeddown there at some point.
Yeah, but it is.
It doesn't quite fit, does it?

(59:16):
I've seen some of thosetheories, and it doesn't pan out,
does it?
Well, how would you know?
Yeah, if he's reset in someway, which they've shown they can
do, and we know that he usedto work somewhere else, but even
though he doesn't rememberthat, and the idea that him and Burt
have possibly, you know, theywould be maybe an original test subject

(59:36):
for the subconscious.
What are you remembering fromone experience to another, one room
to another?
What if Bert was his doctorand they're still keeping an eye
on him?
I don't know.
The genius thing so far to meabout this show is you can fall into
all of those theories and havea really good time with it, but whatever
they come up with has not beendisappointing so far.

(59:58):
Yes.
You know what I mean?
Like, you can.
There's a rich world oftheorizing, and a lot of shows disappoint
when that happens, and thisone somehow seems to exceed what
you're expecting.
I.
I agree with that.
I feel like if you want to godown the rabbit hole, that that's
fine, but if you want to, justalmost kind of like I'm taking one

(01:00:19):
episode at a time.
Watching the show as a show.
Yeah.
It succeeds, you know, justas, like, a drama about people.
Yeah.
That's one of the great thingsabout Separates to me, is that it
blends that human, thatuniversal with the.
The whodunit mystery that sendus down Reddit holes.
Usually a show can do one orthe other fairly decently, but you

(01:00:40):
got to have that balance, andthis one has it.
And sometimes I want to avoidthe guesswork or speculation that
shows like this almost demandof you, so I can see if it's also
putting together somethingwell beyond a puzzle.
This episode solidified thatSeverance does both well.

(01:01:01):
It's a show with a heart.
Something to say well beyondjust a mystery to solve.
Yeah.
Way more than just a puzzle box.
Well, this is the firstepisode where I thought, oh, Orpheus.
I kind of see what's going on now.
When you're able to invokeJust ancient myth, human experience.
On top of, like, y'all aresaying the.

(01:01:23):
Can I solve this puzzle?
That's.
You're doing some good work,Ben Stiller.
I worry about placing too muchon Dan Erickson and the other writers
because to demand so much isan expectation that they would have
had every detail planned outwell in advance.
And all the ideas have beenscrutinized with a fine tooth comb,

(01:01:44):
which maybe they have, butthat's a.
That's a heavy weight to bear.
There's a lot of folks onlinethat swear.
They say, you know, just.
Just enjoy the show.
The goats don't mean anything,blah, blah, blah.
And then other people who want every.
Every single detail to matter.
And I think the truth isprobably somewhere in between.
Yeah, right.

(01:02:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I will end our discussion onseverance from the other thing that
Tim had emailed us, which iskind of gets back around to where
we started.
He said that he.
He didn't like that we wereshown what was happening with Gemma.
Now he would rather wediscovered this along with the characters.

(01:02:25):
So that's a different approachthan what I said.
I said earlier.
We get the more humanexperience of caring about Jema.
He says, find that out alongwith the characters.
I think that would be a holding.
I don't know.
When you don't get it in thispackage, you don't fall in love with
her.
Like, I agree with that.
And I think, you know, thefact that he gave her an ant farm

(01:02:46):
that has multiple levels likethat, I think we're getting the snapshot
approach like that.
The.
The Cutaway Donovan.
I'm trying to remember thename of the books that you could
get when we were kids thatwere like, here's a castle and all.
The Cutaway.
Oh, yeah.
You know.
Yeah, I like that.
I like that.
That's the version ofstorytelling they're using.

(01:03:08):
Just telling, like, hey, itworks as a TV show.
This episode was really goodbecause it kind of took her from,
like, a MacGuffin, really.
Just, like, the thing movingthe plot around to a person and a
person who.
We even see, like, when she.
When she hits the doctor withthe chair, we see her like a person
of agency.
And then to have thatcompletely taken away at the end,

(01:03:28):
it's like this, like.
Like, on the human level, thatworks for me.
I thought you're gonna say,who hasn't hit their doctor with
a chair?
They put the chair in the roomfor a reason.
We have come to the end of ourweekly episode.
It's just vital that you tella friend about this podcast.
Trust us, it's been a fun week.

(01:03:49):
But it doesn't have to stop there.
You could tell a friend, y'allcould discuss it.
If you have something to add,put a comment on this podcast's [e-mail]
if you have an idea for yourown podcast or you want to ride something,
or just talk via email, emailus at the alabama take gmail.com

(01:04:11):
we're under that umbrella.
Pitch us ideas or say hello.
Thanks for listening.
For Adam and Donovan, I'mBlaine and I think we're all getting
severed this week, finally.
Bye.